September 14, 2025 • 47 mins
Hours after Chris Watts made an emotional plea for help finding his missing wife and two young daughters, the Colorado man led police to their bodies hidden in oil tanks near where he worked.
After being convicted for the three murders, Chris Watts labeled his pregnant wife, Shanann, a “control freak,” and claims that he sought refuge with his mistress. He says Nichol Kessinger was “everything my wife wasn’t like with me.” Watts confided to a jail mate that his marriage to Shanann was unhappy but Nichol was just everything my wife wasn’t like with me. She was just nice, and not a control freak." Later on, Watts told the jail mate that Kessinger became “the death of me,” blaming her for inticing him away from his morals.
Now Watts claiming from behind bars that he is a new "forgiven" man.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grease, Oh my stars, Chris Watts.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
The killer Dad.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Can you just be quiet, go away, go serve your
life sentence and shut your pie hole.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
You know what, that's not possible.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
In the last days, so called killer Dad Chris Watts.
I ain't to even say his name. It tastes like
dirt in my mouth. I'll say his wife's name, Shenanne Watts, beautiful, loving,
hard working, supporting the family, mother of two little girls,
(00:42):
Celeste and Bella. They were murdered too, mother to be
a baby, Nico, her first son. They're all dead thanks
to Dad Chris watts motive to be with one of his.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Many many lovers.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
But in the last Days, emerging in the headline again
go Away and his twisted prison letters claiming he's a
quote new man and that God has forgiven him for
murdering his pregnant wife and both of his daughters.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Did God tell him that?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I don't know? I mean, is he grace? This is
Crime Stories? Thank you for being with us. I ain't
even look at him. Why do women think he's attractive?
He looks like the devil to me, absolutely, the devil
killer Dacris Watts now claims he is a quote new
man and God has forgiven him this, as he writes
(01:39):
in prison for really horrific crimes and the disposal of
his wife and little girls. As I recall it, the
Anna Darko oil well grounds where he worked, his wife
endured coffin birth. I don't know if in dear is
(02:00):
actually the right word. After she died, she gave birth
and her makeshift grave to baby Nico, who of course
also died. I'm all for forgiveness. Lord knows I need
it to.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Dear.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Lord.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
I hope you're listening to that.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
And I think that if he seeks forgiveness, he will
get forgiveness from God.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I do believe that he can also.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Right behind Mars at the same time, they're not mutually exclusive.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
The killer insists he is a quote new creature in
recent handwritten letters to a female pen pal, A new creature,
A creature. Yes, I don't know how new he is.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
I have always taken full responsibility for what I did. Okay,
right there, that is a lie. He did not always
take responsibility. In fact, he lied about it and begged
for his wife's return, knowing full well he had murdered
her and the two little girls that Nico had been
(03:13):
still born because of the murders, and he had disposed
of their bodies and the worst way. You know what,
let's have a little reality check. This is what happened.
I don't care if he says I've taken full responsibility
for what I did. I want you to hear the
husband as he begs for help.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I just want them back.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
I just I just want them to come back. And
if if they're not safe right now, that's that's what's
tearing me apart. Because if they are safe, they're come back.
But if they're not, this this has got to stop.
Like somebody has to come forward.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Somebody come forward.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
The husband begging for help at that point, trying to
find his wife. She's gorgeous, a million dollars smile, long,
brunette hair, Shannon Watts. I'm looking at a photo of
her right now with her two daughters, Celeste just three
years old, Bella just four. Straight out to Ellen Calaura
(04:11):
joining us with Crime online dot Com. Ellen, I want
to start at the beginning, as this whole thing unravels.
Tell me about Shannon's new job.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I want to start with.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
That Shannon was having a lot of success selling weight
loss patches through multi level marketing company, and part of
what a multi level marketing job is recruiting more salespeople.
So she was posting on Facebook all the time showing
how well she was doing. She was getting a car allowance,
so she's got a Lexus. She's going on work funtored
(04:47):
vacations all the time. She's working really hard, but she's
also having the time.
Speaker 6 (04:51):
Of her advice and xpos.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
This with what we later learned that the family had
been having financial trouble and they had for bankruptcy in
two thousand and five, and Chris had reportedly told some
neighbors pretty recently that they were thinking about selling the whole.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Uh oh.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Now here's a mom who has been devoting her entire
life to raising the two little girls, Celeste and Bella,
and then they hit hard times. The dad is no deadbeat,
he's been working too, so they fall on hard times
and they have to get out from under staggering debt
(05:30):
by filing bankruptcy.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
She manages to land a.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Job at about eighty thousand dollars a year, but part
of that job is having to travel away from her children,
which she hated. She would leave for work and I
believe this country they call it health supplements. This eighty
thousand dollars job. She had a lot of trips to
(05:54):
Mexico and Dominican Republic. Her work often took her away
from home, and that leaves the husband, Christopher Watts, at
home with the two little girls. During this time, she
gets pregnant and they are looking forward to the birth
of the first boy in the family. Also with me
renowned pathologist and medical examiner, doctor Michelle Dupree, and forensics
(06:18):
expert Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville University and
author of Blood Beneath My Feet To you, Ellen Kilaurn,
have you ever noticed realtors, Okay, realtors always have beautiful cars.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I'm convinced they're all leased by the way.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Beautiful cars, beautiful clothes, beautiful jewelry. And I guess it's
part of the image they need to project. I mean, Ellen,
if you're going to go look at an apartment or
look at a house, you don't want to get in
a car that doesn't crank up. It's all ratty and
disgusting insight a right, So so I'm not judging people
(06:59):
on their cars, but it's a facade that they need
to present. This Mom got this job and had to
present this facade exactly.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
It's part of the job to make it. It's part
of the presentation, to make the whole experience seem like
something that you want to participate in. Her job isn't
just selling the weight loss patches, it's also selling other
people taking the kind of job that she has. She's
recruiting as well, so she has to protect project an
image that makes us look very, very enticing.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
So she starts this job, and even amidst the new
job where she's really having to work and travel out
of town away from her two kids, they still are
considering selling the house.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Ellen, Yeah, they.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
Ever told a reporter that just this week that Chris
has kind of off handedly mentioned that they were considering
selling the house. So it's really hard to say what
their financial situation was like. It seems like obviously there
had been some trouble in the past, but after they
filed for BANKERCP is when Shandan got this job, and
also Chris had been working at the petroleum company, so
(08:04):
they're both working, but it's her. They've got two children,
They've got another on the way. That's a lot of
financial pressure. It's hard to know how easily they really
were making nat because, like you said, a big part
of Shannon's job was making the job look really, really
attractive to other people.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
All we know is that, well, what was his job?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
What was his job? Christopher Wats's job?
Speaker 5 (08:26):
You work for a petroleum company. You've been working there
since at least twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
I want to get back to her going missing Ellen.
When did that happen? Give me the timeline. She had
just gotten.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Back from yet another work trip on early in the
Monday morning hours.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Wait, I want to close something up.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
I want to clearse something up with me, Doctor Michelle Dupree,
Joe Scott Morgan, also New York psychiatrist, doctor Judith Joseph.
You know, I don't know if you have to travel
for work, doctor Michelle Duprey. But it sounds so glamorous.
It's not glamorous, like this woman went to New Orleans, Toronto,
Punta Kinda, Dominican Republic, Puerto Valerta, Vega, San Diego. When
(09:09):
you travel for work, doctor Michelle Duprie, it is not glamorous.
I typically get off of a plane. I go straight
to the work site, dragging my beat up suitcase behind me,
and I get there.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I work.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
I work late because I want to hurry and work
as lady as I can so I can get back earlier.
End up spending the night in a hotel, grab something
on the way, and then I get up as quickly
as I can, sometimes at three or four in the
morning to get to the airport to get back home.
That's not glamorous, doctor Michelle Duprie, You're.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Exactly right, Nancy.
Speaker 7 (09:45):
It is not very timing and you are worn out
by the time you can hunt.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
So tell me this.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
She gets back Ellen from one of these trips, and
what happens.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
She gets back late, early in the hours of Monday morning,
he goes to work at five am. Apparently they stay
up together for three or four hours talking, and he
admitted that it was an emotional conversation. So that's going
to be a really big question in this case. What
was going on in that quote unquote emotional conversation. Well,
so she wasn't seen again after that.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Well, you know, when one partner travels a lot. To
Doctor Judith Joseph, renowned New York psychiatrists joining us. That's
very hard. As a matter of fact, doctor Judith went,
my husband traveled constantly.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
He would leave on.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Sunday night and get back if I was lucky on
Friday night. Our entire relationship. When we had the twins,
I said, listen, son's got to give. I cannot work
and be on call for crime related stories twenty four seven,
three sixty five, and you be gone. It's just it's well,
you know what. He started his own business so he
(10:59):
could name his own hours. But doctor Judith, not everybody
is that fortunate to be able to just go run
out and start your own business.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And it's hard when one.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
That's very stressful in a family with two taughts and
another on the way, for one parent.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
To be gone all the time.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I guess they did have an emotional conversation.
Speaker 6 (11:19):
I agree with you, Nancy. You know, traveling is hard
on anyone, to even people who don't have children. Stuff
us on depression, anxiety, sleep disorders related to extensive traveling.
And so then when you put that stress into the
mix with two young children, a husband who's sharing the
brunt of things, and you know, traditionally in our society,
(11:40):
some parts of this country are still very very traditional.
It's not common for the mother to leave the home,
and so lot there probably were a lot of feelings there,
and you know, sometimes people become in the community about
about this, and so I'm not sure what was happening
with this then in particular. However, you're absolutely right. Travel
(12:00):
is stressful, and when one parent has to stay behind
and one partner has to be behind, sometimes the imagination
goes wild, and their accusations of jealousy and infidelity, and
we don't know what was happening in this family.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Also in Chris Watts's letters, he says, as I mentioned,
I've always taken full responsibility for what I did the
rest of that sentence, even though I was misled by
a wicked woman. He seems to be blaming his mistress
for him murdering his family. Now, is that taking full responsibility? No,
(12:45):
it is not. And ps which mistress are we talking about?
There have been so many in their disappearance and murders.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Her flight got delayed from Arizona because father storms around
the nation. You're supposed to get home like a and
then she got home at like one. If she came
home from the airport two am and I left around
five point fifteen. She was still here, and like about
twelve ten in that afternoon, her friend Nicole showed up
(13:13):
at the door. Like I had texted Shan a few
times that day, called her say you know, but she
never got back to me. But she wasn't get back
to any of her people as well. And that's what
really concerned a lot of people, is like she's not
getting back to her Like if she doesn't get back
to me, that's fine, Like she gets busy during the day,
but she get back to her people, which was very concerning.
And Nicole called me when she was at the door,
and that's when they came home and then walked in
(13:35):
the house and nothing vanished. Nothing was here. I mean,
she wasn't She wasn't here, the kids weren't here, nobody
was here.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
We are discussing the case of Shannon Watts. We want justice.
Shannon goes missing along with her two children, Bella and
Celeste little Toss, and to top it all off, Shannon
is pregnant. I recall covering a case and I learned
a startling statistics. I believe it was from the New
(14:06):
England Journal of Medicine that the number one cause of
death amongst pregnant women in the US is homicide. The
number one cause of death. It's not heart failure, it's
not stroke, it's not anything you may imagine. It is homicide.
Very disturbing, joining me, Doctor Michelle Dupree, Joseph Scott Morgan
(14:30):
doctored jud Joseph and Ellen Calaurin.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
So, Ellen, she goes missing.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
We just heard the husband, Christopher Watts, begging for help
to try to find her.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I'm thinking this, Sooth.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
It's not like she'd run away with another man and
bring the two little girls, Bella and Celeste with her. Also,
she came home that night, she got home from out
of town. She has this discussion, probably related to the
out of town trips she had to take. The husband
is her work at five am. She's alive and well. Then,
(15:04):
so how does she turn up dead and where?
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Ellen?
Speaker 5 (15:07):
Far as I know, there were not any accusations of
infidelity on her part, but apparently she did venture to
a friend at one point that she was wondering if
maybe her husband was being unfaithful.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Well, according to and Yes, yes, Mark Garrigos, my colleague
defense attorney for Michael Jackson, Scott Peterson, Winona Ryder. He'll
tell anybody a cheater a murderer does not make and
he's absolutely right. But I can tell you this, when
(15:40):
you have a happy family and a happy marriage, the
husband's not waiting in the shadows to push the wife
over a cliff.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I know that much.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
I also know this problems allegedly servicing just in the
past two months because a coworker of Shannon's mom said
they may have been added for divorce. Right when they're
turning the corner, Doctor Judith Joseph, the New York psychiatrist,
is joining us. They yes, they went bankrupt in twenty fifteen,
(16:12):
but they recently had enjoyed these lavish trips and alexis automobile.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Thanks to her new job.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
It took out of town a lot, and then problems
began to surface at home. And looks like they're turning
the corner on all their financial problems when she goes missing, Judith.
Speaker 6 (16:33):
Well, yeah, I think that that's the statistic that you
mentioned about pregnant women and homified being any more on
cause of that. That's so significant and people don't realize
this that partners, people who are not pregnant husbands, they
also experienced post part of depression and stress. And it's
(16:53):
not the same cause it's not hormonal. There's a lot
of transitions that people have to see when they having
multiple children, and you add the stress of finances, you
add ertal pressure and maybe a third party as someone
who's engaging in adultry, and then people explode. And you know,
(17:14):
I don't know this family in particular, I haven't treated
any of them. However, it sounds like they were trying
to create this facade disappearance that things were okay, and
clearly things were not okay.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Well, another thing, dot you the Joseph as due to Joseph,
everybody has those problems. Everybody that is married with the
family will have children to take care of, jobs, financial pressures.
And she certainly was never accused of having a sex
relationship with anybody else.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
So why does she go missing?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
And what does all of that have to do with
her body being discovered?
Speaker 8 (17:51):
Now?
Speaker 1 (17:52):
I can tell you this much to Joseph Scott Morgan,
I'm sorry, but I just don't think men do as
well as good a job as women do raising she and.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Here he is taking care of these two children.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Ellen, how does it go from him taking care of
the children and now she's dead and goes missing?
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Ellen, Come on fast forward.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
Ellen, this is a husband who had financially struggled in
the past. He's at home alone with two daughters. His
wife is having a lot of success. They have another
baby on the way. He could have been under a
lot of stress, and he may have felt that his
role had been diminished in the family.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Well, and I'm asking you, I'm not concerned about his
male ego. Ellen. She's dead and now let me just
Q and A with myself here.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Isn't it true? Cops believed she was killed.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
In her home and then her body moved to and
a Darko Oil and gas drilling properties?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Who worked there? May I ask you that, Ellen?
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Who do we know work at Anna Darko Oil and
Gas Drilling?
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Name one for Chris Watt? Thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
That's what I'm talking about, Doctor Michelle, Do pre help
me out here? Pathologists, medical examiner, you know what you
and I talk about. When somebody kills, they very often
will do it or dispose of the body in a
place they are familiar. And I always point to Scott
Peterson he's a fisherman. He goes fishing in San Francisco
(19:25):
Bay all the time. He fishes, he golfs, and he cheats.
He fishes, he golfs, and he cheats. It's like rents
and repeat on the back of your shampoo. He fishes,
he golfs, and he cheats. Where is lazy his dead
wife and unborn child Connor in San Francisco Bay because
he's comfy there, he goes and dumps the bodies there,
Doctor Michelle, you see it over and over.
Speaker 7 (19:47):
Exactly, you really do.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
We love it when they're dumb.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah. And here we've got in a Darco Oil and
Gas drilling one of those properties where the husband christ
her wants works and want to come and Joe Scott Morgan,
I need expertise from you regarding how they might know
the mom and the two little girls were murdered in
(20:12):
their own home.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
I called her three texted her about three times just
to say, you know, what's going on? Like I didn't
I could for that for the After I called her
and texted her once, it was like maybe she was
just busy, like she had just gotten back, you know,
like everybody's probably calling her from her trip. She just
got back from Arizona, and I figured this she was busy,
but when her friend showed up, that's what it was like,
(20:35):
it registered like, all right, this isn't.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Right right now.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
I don't even want to just like throw anything out there,
like I hope that she's somewhere safe right now and
with the kids. But I mean, could she event could
she just taken off? I don't know. But if somebody
has her and they're not safe, like I want them
back now like that that that's with them. I like,
if they're safe right now, they're going to come back.
(20:59):
But if they're not safe right now, that's the not
knowing part. Like if they're not safe. Last night I
was had everybody in the house on I was hoping
that I would just get just ran over by the
kids running in the door and just like Beryl rushing me.
But it didn't happen, and it was just a traumatic
night trying to be.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Here Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. He also says in
these letters, quote, I know God does not see me
as a sinner who killed his family. I don't think
you should be speaking for the Lord Almighty. He says,
(21:39):
I've confessed my sins, I am forgiven. Okay, that's between
you and the Lord. But you are not getting out
of jail again. You being forgiven by heaven is not
mutually exclusive, with you staying behind bars and rotting till
the day you die. Let's have a little fat check.
(22:01):
This is what happened to Shenan, Bella, Celeste and Nico.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Just remember his.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Two little girls, Bella four and Celeste three, were in
his truck as he carried their mom's body to hide
it at the oil fields where he worked. He suffocated
the two little girls one by one as they begged
for mercy and stashed their bodies in oil drums. In
addition to multiple handwritten letters, mostly about himself, he shared
(22:32):
his thoughts with an inmate, Dylan Tauman, a president in
Wisconsin who befriended Watts. Taman was in a cell next
to wattson the two became friends jail buddies. Tauman actually
released a series of books titled The Cell next Door.
He says, what's confided that his mariage to Shanan was unhappy. Really,
(22:56):
then where did the three children come from? What's wine
that Shanan was quote really busy with her job, and
that he was often the quote primary caregiver to his daughters.
So Wats claims when he lost Wade and started working out,
women started paying attention to him, and he quote met Nicole.
(23:18):
She was quote everything my wife wasn't like with me.
She was just nice and not a control freak. What's
also trashed Nicole Kessinger, claiming she Nicole quote became the
death of me. He also called her a quote Harlot
(23:40):
and a quote Jezebel who led him to destruction. Oh okay,
so now he's blaming his mistress. Okay, it's her fault
that Shannan, Bella and Celeste and the baby boy Nico
are all dead.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
He wrote a prayer of.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Confession, Chris quote, the words of a Harlot have brought
me low. Her flattering speech was like drops of honey
that pierced my heart and soul. Little did I know
that all her guests were in the chamber of death.
Can you believe this guy? What happened? I don't want
anybody to get some of those texts, like they have
(24:21):
nothing to do with this days and they're just.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Like between you and Chris, Yes, they're just they're just
so just tell me what you're they're just kind of
ron She okay, well need anybody.
Speaker 9 (24:32):
Everybody's an adult. We're gonna somewhere.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
I don't need that.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
I don't want the papers to get that.
Speaker 6 (24:39):
That's all I want.
Speaker 9 (24:40):
But the only one that we would be looking for
again is the same kind of questions we're getting to here,
is things about his children, things about his wife, the
questioning of did he ever you know, has he ever
said something to you that might indicate maybe not then,
but now that there was something like this in his mind,
or you know what we're looking for. I don't need
(25:02):
to come out and tell you that.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
You are hearing the alleged mistress of killer dad Chris Watts.
And even in light of the fact that his wife,
his pregnant wife, and two little girls were found dead,
the mom Shenan Watts buried in a shallow grave, the
two little girls found in.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
That's of oil.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
She's still whining about how she doesn't want to hand
over her cell phone to investigators because there are quote
raunchy texts. Unless you want it on page six of
the New York Post, do not put it in writing,
and really don't even say it. If it's something you're
ashamed of or something you don't repeat it, just don't
say it for Pete's sake.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
And she is impeding a.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Homicide investigation because she doesn't.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Want the world to see her.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Raunchy texts like I care about her raunchy texts. Well,
in the end, she did not the investigation. She handed
over the phone at Let's take a listen to Nicole Cassinger,
the girlfriend the mistress that finally comes forward two days
after Shania's disappearance, after she read newspaper articles.
Speaker 10 (26:14):
Listen on Tuesday, which would have been the fourteenth of August.
You had read some newspaper articles on the thirteenth and
the fourteenth.
Speaker 11 (26:24):
Regarded this case.
Speaker 10 (26:25):
You had also had a conversation with Chris at some
point during the day on Monday and on Tuesday because
of what you found. Specifically what you said was and
I don't know many put words in your mouth, but
you found out that his life whispering, and I yes,
and you did not know that prior, and you found
that out via the newspaper articles, and that caused you concern.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Well, I just realized that he was lying to me,
and I was like, well, if you can lie to
me about this? What else do you lying to me about?
And it made me realize that maybe his wife was
in danger at that point and it was too and
she still wasn't home.
Speaker 9 (27:02):
What did that cause you to do with your phone?
Speaker 6 (27:04):
Though?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Oh? When I deleted those, I was just kind of
grossed out by him, To be honest with you, I
was just like, I don't know what's going on right now,
but you just lied to me, and I don't want
to see this come over my phone anymore, so I
removed it.
Speaker 10 (27:20):
So you just you already said, but you reroot text messages.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
I deleted all of his stuff because he lied to me.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I mean, that's what it was.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
It was the hurt that made me delete it, and
then it was the lie that made me start questioning
everything else he'd been telling me for the last few days.
Speaker 10 (27:37):
And that's when you decided to come forward.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Yes, you are hearing the voice Nicole Kessinger Killer Dack.
Chris Watson is the mistress during this time, joining me
right now in addition to Susan Constantine, Vincent Hill, Ashley Wilcott.
Also with me is Ellikilaur and Crime online dot Com
investigative reporter. You say there are inconsistencies, and isn't it
(27:59):
true she has some very unusual computer searches as well.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
Well, that's exactly right, Nancy, and the computer searches are
what I see as some inconsistencies. As you hear in
her discussions with the investigators, she talks about her relationship
with Chris as one where he was more serious about
her than she was about him. She says repeatedly she
(28:25):
encouraged him to try and save his marriage. She said,
he has such a beautiful family, why not hold on
to this, this beautiful home. She says repeatedly that she
encouraged him to stay married and work on his marriage.
But once there was a data review of her phone,
(28:47):
it looks like maybe there is some inconsistencies. She had
spent two hours online of doing a Google search for
wedding dresses.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
She wait, is this the same woman that searched for
anal sex preparation?
Speaker 5 (29:05):
That is correct?
Speaker 6 (29:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (29:06):
You know, it's funny how you gloss over the hard
parts and you make me say them. Okay, in addition
to the frothy wedding dress, I'm the one that has
to blurt out the anal sex searches.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Thanks Ellen, What else do we find on her searches?
Speaker 5 (29:20):
She definitely she did a search related to terms marrying
your mistress.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Uh, well, wha, wha, wha what? What did you say?
Speaker 5 (29:31):
She did it? She did a Google search term search
of terms related to the phrase marrying your mistress?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
So she did a search on how much she could
make if she wrote a book like Amber Fry.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
She yeah, I don't think it was specifically how much
can I make if I write a book? But she
absolutely was interested in She did Google searches on Amber
Fry and her book deal and oh.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Her Okay, let me remind everybody who is Amber Fry.
Amberfry was the miss stress of Scott Peterson. Amber Fry
did not know Scott Peterson was married to a pregnant woman.
Amberfry then cooperated completely with police and actually caught Scott
Peterson in damning cell phone conversations, wire tapping.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Him and as a matter of fact, there was a.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Fear that Peterson would come kill her, but she stuck
it out and she was a star witness at the trial.
It turned everything around into Scott Peterson prosecution and the
murder of his pregnant wife. Lacey and their unborn child, Connor.
So you know, here you hear Nicole Kessinger going, wow,
I don't want you to find out to release my
(30:42):
rawchy text. Amber Fry put it out there and completely
cooperated with police. She volunteered to cooperate with police and
was a star witness. She then later wrote a book
and I hope she made a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Off that book.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
God bless her to Susan Constantine deception body language expert.
You know, I've got to give it to Nicole Kessinger.
Without her cooperation, this case may not have cracked the.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Way that it did.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
But according to Ellen Klora, and there's a lot of inconsistencies.
Speaker 7 (31:17):
Yeah, there are a lot of inconsistencies. And the thing
is is that it needs they need to go back
and be able to verify the information that she's given them.
But for overall, you know, when I'm listening to her, Nancy,
there's a lot of truth in what she's saying.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
So the issue was.
Speaker 7 (31:33):
Hard to come over is her lack of emotion. You know,
her emotion aspect is just completely off. She's very cavalier.
Her tone of her voice can is really off putting.
And so she really sets herself up for people to
really scrutinize her because her personality is shining through about
(31:55):
how she you know, how how she sees the entire
situation and she how detached that she is. The part
that bothers me the most is that she is trying
to pretend like, hey, I'm coming in, I'm the savior,
work things out with your wife, but yet she's kind
of like pushing them away, but then kind of motioning
to come closer. So she's she's very manipulative.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
At one point, he told me that they sat down
and they talked about it, and he told her that
he wanted to either fix things or like to try
to fix things, and if she didn't want to fix them,
then they needed to move forward with the separation and
like actually file for a divorce at this point was
the impression that I got from.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
This and was what he told me.
Speaker 6 (32:38):
And so.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
He said that she was like pretty receptive to just
not trying. He was like, she seemed like she just
wants me to go. He's like, when she has her
mind made up, she has her mind made up and
that's what she wants. And he's like, she doesn't want
to try anymore, and he's like, and neither do I
really And he was like it's done, and he's like
and then and the next day, I don't even know
(33:02):
what daisies were. Sometime when he was out there, he
told me.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
We're putting the.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
House up her sale as soon as we get back.
And I was like, well, that was quick, and he
was like, it's her, she's ready to go, and I
was like, okay.
Speaker 12 (33:16):
It's the dramatic moment tops confront Chris Watts's mistress after
he murdered his pregnant wife and two daughters to start
a new life with her.
Speaker 6 (33:24):
Why would you.
Speaker 12 (33:26):
Why your family to be The just released video shows
thirty year old Nicole Kessinger being interrogated did you.
Speaker 9 (33:34):
Ever see anything with him about her or never? Anything
about his kids being a problem, or anything about his.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
Wife being a pro never?
Speaker 4 (33:45):
This shocked me just as much as I think get
shocked the rest of the world.
Speaker 12 (33:49):
She breaks down sobbing over the gruesome fate of the children,
four year old Bella and three year old Celested.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Ugh, he's so disgusting. I'm so ashamed of why?
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Whoa?
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Why? Why?
Speaker 11 (34:02):
How?
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I don't even understand how you could bring yourself to
do that somebody who's like that. Bit you are hearing
girlfriend Nicole Kessinger, and you were hearing our friend at
Inside Edition, Jim Murray Susan Constantine Deception of body language expert.
What do you make of that where Nicole Kessinger the
(34:23):
Mistress breaks down in tears.
Speaker 7 (34:25):
Well, it came on very sudden, so that's the one
thing that I look for, and also how quickly she
recovers after it. So that's what I'm looking at, is
that it's not unusual for someone just to break down,
But when you listen to her voice, there is there.
I'm listening for these kind of breaks or pauses and
the voice, but I'm not really hearing that. I'm not
(34:47):
saying that she does not feel that way. I think
that she does. But what bothers me the most is
how quickly the onset of that emotion was and then
how quick it ended that because there should be remnants
of it throughout Once she has finished making that statement,
you should still hear her voice foil cracking up afterwards.
(35:10):
So even though she's emotionally upset, she quickly gets over
it awfully fast.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
That's suspicious to me.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
To Ellenclaurincrime online dot Com investigative reporter, you mentioned inconsistencies.
What other inconsistencies have you discovered? Because I think not
only was she genuinely upset about the best of the
deaths of Belle and Celeste, but also was distancing herself
because if she had known anything about this murder plot,
(35:39):
she would have been erupted in at doing jail time
right now.
Speaker 5 (35:42):
Yes, One thing that I want to make clear is
that even though there are some inconsistencies in her story,
it's also very clear that Chris Wats lied to her.
She did not know Shannan Wats was pregnant, and he
told her that Shannan was gritty ready to leave the marriage,
when that is a one.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Hundred percent not true.
Speaker 7 (36:00):
We see that.
Speaker 5 (36:02):
However, there's one other incident of the interrogation when Nicole
tells Poliefe that she never told any of her friends
or anyone about her relationship with Chris because it was
very early on and she was still, you know, working
through a separation. But that ended up not being the case.
She did have a text message exchange with a girlfriend
(36:25):
about her relationship with Chris, but and she called investigators
the next day and told them.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
That alexis Terreschuk not just the girlfriend we've been listening
to Nicole Cassinger, but also some other woman who played
these kinky sex games with killer dad Chris Watts.
Speaker 8 (36:45):
There was a second mistress, a woman named Amanda, and
her name was secret. All during you know, his wife
took their children to both of their parents were in
North Carolina, so she went for six weeks in the.
Speaker 5 (36:58):
Summer with her girls when they.
Speaker 8 (36:59):
Were out of school, to stay with his parents and
her parents for a vacation. And that is when he
went wild. He was like a bachelor. Even his friends
had joked with him, and this was all the police report.
Police report that the county has released that the friends
sent him a text and said, how is your life
as a bachelor? And he lied to his friends.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
He said, oh, you don't.
Speaker 8 (37:20):
I'm just working out.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I'm not doing anything else.
Speaker 8 (37:22):
He wasn't working out, working out there, working out.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I can make a lot of career jugs right now,
but I'm not jumping.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
Into a new relationship is a little quick. It's like
I was in a relationship earlier this year, and I
think this is also a little quick, and I'm like,
so why don't we take our time? And I'm like,
if you guys end up doing a week on a
week off with your kids and like the week you
have your kids being with your children, and the week
that you don't, I'm like, I don't even want to
see you every day. I'm like, I think we should
(37:50):
spend like a few days of that together. I'm like,
because I like my space and I think you need
your space. I think you need your space to like
develop your identity again and like get it back because
I think he's just been like so wrapped up in
this whole thing that he's got in his own life
and his life that he I mean, he doesn't remember
probably what it's like to be single or have time
where it's like just him.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
And so I was just like, you know, like embrace that.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
It's a beautiful thing, and I really try to like
take it smart with all that. And it was the
same thing with his kids. It was just like you know,
like and I and we talk about things every once
in a while where you know, i'd be like, hey,
if I ever meet you know, because like I have
a lot of houseplants. It's a good example so I
have a lot of house plants, and I told I
told him, I was like, one day, if I ever
meet your kids, I was like, I'm going to show
(38:35):
these girls how to like paint, pottery and plants plants.
It was like, I think they would love to see
something grow that they build. I think it would be
really really cute and like little stuff like that. But
it wasn't very frequent. It wasn't hey we should get married,
and hey we should have babies, and hey I want
to live with but hey, me to meet your children now,
and let's cut the mom out.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
It was never like that.
Speaker 10 (38:56):
If there was never any conversation about, you know, we
can't do this with her around, you can't do this
with the kids around. He never said that.
Speaker 7 (39:02):
You never said that.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah, maybe they didn't talk about the marriage and the
moving in because there was a problem his wife, Shananne,
the pregnant wife. You know, I'm listening to the girlfriend
Nicole Kessinger. Were these statements like sa to Rustchuk before
or after the bodies were found?
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Before?
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Okay, so she didn't yet know that the wife and
the children were dead. Okay, that's a little bit that
alleviates some of this because I was wondering, how could
she talk about all that when the bodies had just
been recovered.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
You know.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Another aspect to this is police were listening to her,
but they were probably also looking at her as a
potential person of interest, potential. She did not have anything
to do with these murders, let's just be clear about that.
So the wife and the children at this point are missing,
and she's just talking as fast as she can. She
conveniently left out the search for wedding dresses to people.
(40:05):
Quote hate Amber Fry, who was Scott Peterson's mistress when
Lacy's pregnant wife was murdered. How to prepare for anal sex. Oh,
let's see, there's just so many to choose from.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
I don't really know what to pick first.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Alexis Terschuk. I doubt pretty seriously she knew his plan
to murder his wife and children, or that he had
another mistress.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Bring us up to date to Alexis to Restchuck.
Speaker 8 (40:35):
So I don't think she did know that he had
another mistress. There was a woman named Amanda, and she
we secretly interviewed her before her name became public, and
she told us that she met Chris on a dating
app and they had a really dirty one night stand.
She said that he was into he wanted to do
a rape fantasy, that he choked her out while they
(40:58):
had sex, and she.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Oh, I in the right fantasy.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Was he the victim or was she the victim?
Speaker 5 (41:04):
He was the victim, so he was.
Speaker 8 (41:07):
He was the one that was raping her in their
sex fantasy.
Speaker 5 (41:10):
That was consensual.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
She said, all that rage, all that hate towards women,
I just okay.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Go ahead.
Speaker 8 (41:16):
And she said that she really she had a really
good time with it. She thought he was really attractive
and it was a really sexy one night's dancer. Yeah.
So he started cheating on his wife, his pregnant wife,
basically the same minute she got pregnant, and then he
moved on to not just cheating her, but having a
full born relationship and a woman who thought they were
going to get married. This is somebody who he facetimed
(41:40):
with this mistress. He so he killed his wife and children.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Why are you acting so indignant that the mistress thought
they were going to get married. The mistress knew he
was already married, I guess, and she thought he was a.
Speaker 8 (41:52):
Marry in type. But he would just bounce back from
one and marry her again. And so the night that
the women went missing. In the first night, I'm sorry
the daughters and his wife, he sat on his bed,
his unmade bed in his bedroom, on his phone, his iPhone,
and facetimed with her so she could see. He said
he was in bed where his wife had most likely died,
(42:14):
and that he.
Speaker 5 (42:15):
Was just chatting with her.
Speaker 8 (42:17):
She said he was staring at her very intently, and
he wasn't crying about his children missing or his wife missing.
He was just carrying on like a flirty conversation with her,
knowing that his wife was He had killed his wife
and his daughters in that very house within the last
twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
You know, it's interesting that people worry about the you, Alexis,
let me be clear, worry about how the mistress was hurt.
You know, to hey with the mistress, she knew full
well he was married with children, although although I don't
think she knew the wife was pregnant. Vincent Hill, private investigator,
(42:56):
author of playbook to Murder. So often the defense will
be and I remember Mark Gerriges, who never agree with him,
but he is a good defense lawyer would always say,
an adulterer does not a murderer make, and that's true.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Just because you're having.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
An affair, it does not mean you're going to commit murder.
But in domestic homicides, very often you will find when
the wife is murdered by the husband, there has been
an affair. So the converse to me is true. Very
often in domestic homicides, you will find the killer is
an adulterer. True adulterer doesn't mean a killer necessarily, but
(43:31):
the reverse may very well be true. Vincent, He'll they
had to know they were going to dig up at
least one mistress.
Speaker 11 (43:37):
Vincent, what's really disturbing Nancy. I think with this other
mistress that he met on Tender or whatever dating website,
it was the fact that he wanted to play out
this rape fantasy and strangle her. I think he was
kind of setting the tone of what he was going
to do with his wife. And I wouldn't be surprised
if more women came forward at a later time, whether
(43:58):
it's from ten years ago, and say, yeah, he liked
to choke or strangle or something like that. So I
think all the signs were there this whole time, and
luckily for this other mistress. I think she got out
kind of lucky. To be honest with you, well, you.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Know what, You're right, You're right.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
And again, although we're giving her a hard time, she
is in no way implicated in his murderous plan. As
a matter of fact, listen to girlfriend Nicole Kessinger.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
You, no, it wasn't fair to his family for him
to have an affair.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
It wasn't fair.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
To me to have him lie to me and make
me think that Ivan is the plan. And still to
this day, I don't even know what's lie and what's not.
I don't even know if they were like filing for divorce.
I don't know if they were putting the house up.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
I don't even know. I don't even know anymore what
is real and what it's not.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
But what I do know is it's just like, you know,
that wasn't.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
Fair to me either, because if I hadn't know him,
not even all the truth, but like obviously some of it,
I wouldn't have even engaged in any of this in
the first place. I mean, and that's the part for me,
just like on my personal level, outside of everything that
is happening, that is gonna affect me long term, It's like,
(45:13):
you know, I'm gonna wake up every day and know
that like his mom and her unborn child and these
two little girls are not around anymore, and it breaks
my heart.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
It is, oh my god, in any.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
And then I have to think about like the consequences
of his actions and how they affect everybody else, like
all of these her famili's impacted. My name is about
to be like slandered for probably a while.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Elsewhere in these letters, Watts continues to repeat his quote
Jezebel mistress Nicole Kessinger is really responsible quote quote oh
why stars this idiot? Quote I have the appeals court
says this again, quote she was a harlot. Does somebody
(46:03):
actually still say harlot? I guess so she was a harlot,
a Jezebel who led me astray, who spoke sweet words
of destruction. But I will let God have his justice
with her. I was weak, and I let her cloud
my morals and my judgment. Oh kay, she was never
(46:23):
implicated in any of this. She had nothing to do
with the murders. As he is quote taking full responsibility.
He's blaming the woman he conned into an affair. One
of the many women he conned into an affair. Now
he's saying she's a Jezebel. Who is Jezebel? I think
(46:47):
he's talking about the biblical queen Jezebel, known for her
wicked and immoral and immoral actions. Oh this guy, Okay,
Nicole Passinger had nothing to do with these murders. He
did it all on his own. Chris Watts, you may
(47:10):
have gotten forgiveness by the Lord, but don't expect any
special treatment from Lady Justice. Goodbye, friends,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grease, Oh my stars, Chris Watts.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
The killer Dad.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Can you just be quiet, go away, go serve your
life sentence and shut your pie hole.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
You know what, that's not possible.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
In the last days, so called killer Dad Chris Watts.
I ain't to even say his name. It tastes like
dirt in my mouth. I'll say his wife's name, Shenanne Watts, beautiful, loving,
hard working, supporting the family, mother of two little girls,
(00:42):
Celeste and Bella. They were murdered too, mother to be
a baby, Nico, her first son. They're all dead thanks
to Dad Chris watts motive to be with one of his.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Many many lovers.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
But in the last Days, emerging in the headline again
go Away and his twisted prison letters claiming he's a
quote new man and that God has forgiven him for
murdering his pregnant wife and both of his daughters.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Did God tell him that?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I don't know? I mean, is he grace? This is
Crime Stories? Thank you for being with us. I ain't
even look at him. Why do women think he's attractive?
He looks like the devil to me, absolutely, the devil
killer Dacris Watts now claims he is a quote new
man and God has forgiven him this, as he writes
(01:39):
in prison for really horrific crimes and the disposal of
his wife and little girls. As I recall it, the
Anna Darko oil well grounds where he worked, his wife
endured coffin birth. I don't know if in dear is
(02:00):
actually the right word. After she died, she gave birth
and her makeshift grave to baby Nico, who of course
also died. I'm all for forgiveness. Lord knows I need
it to.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Dear.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Lord.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
I hope you're listening to that.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
And I think that if he seeks forgiveness, he will
get forgiveness from God.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I do believe that he can also.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Right behind Mars at the same time, they're not mutually exclusive.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
The killer insists he is a quote new creature in
recent handwritten letters to a female pen pal, A new creature,
A creature. Yes, I don't know how new he is.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
I have always taken full responsibility for what I did. Okay,
right there, that is a lie. He did not always
take responsibility. In fact, he lied about it and begged
for his wife's return, knowing full well he had murdered
her and the two little girls that Nico had been
(03:13):
still born because of the murders, and he had disposed
of their bodies and the worst way. You know what,
let's have a little reality check. This is what happened.
I don't care if he says I've taken full responsibility
for what I did. I want you to hear the
husband as he begs for help.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I just want them back.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
I just I just want them to come back. And
if if they're not safe right now, that's that's what's
tearing me apart. Because if they are safe, they're come back.
But if they're not, this this has got to stop.
Like somebody has to come forward.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Somebody come forward.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
The husband begging for help at that point, trying to
find his wife. She's gorgeous, a million dollars smile, long,
brunette hair, Shannon Watts. I'm looking at a photo of
her right now with her two daughters, Celeste just three
years old, Bella just four. Straight out to Ellen Calaura
(04:11):
joining us with Crime online dot Com. Ellen, I want
to start at the beginning, as this whole thing unravels.
Tell me about Shannon's new job.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
I want to start with.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
That Shannon was having a lot of success selling weight
loss patches through multi level marketing company, and part of
what a multi level marketing job is recruiting more salespeople.
So she was posting on Facebook all the time showing
how well she was doing. She was getting a car allowance,
so she's got a Lexus. She's going on work funtored
(04:47):
vacations all the time. She's working really hard, but she's
also having the time.
Speaker 6 (04:51):
Of her advice and xpos.
Speaker 5 (04:53):
This with what we later learned that the family had
been having financial trouble and they had for bankruptcy in
two thousand and five, and Chris had reportedly told some
neighbors pretty recently that they were thinking about selling the whole.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Uh oh.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Now here's a mom who has been devoting her entire
life to raising the two little girls, Celeste and Bella,
and then they hit hard times. The dad is no deadbeat,
he's been working too, so they fall on hard times
and they have to get out from under staggering debt
(05:30):
by filing bankruptcy.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
She manages to land a.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Job at about eighty thousand dollars a year, but part
of that job is having to travel away from her children,
which she hated. She would leave for work and I
believe this country they call it health supplements. This eighty
thousand dollars job. She had a lot of trips to
(05:54):
Mexico and Dominican Republic. Her work often took her away
from home, and that leaves the husband, Christopher Watts, at
home with the two little girls. During this time, she
gets pregnant and they are looking forward to the birth
of the first boy in the family. Also with me
renowned pathologist and medical examiner, doctor Michelle Dupree, and forensics
(06:18):
expert Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville University and
author of Blood Beneath My Feet To you, Ellen Kilaurn,
have you ever noticed realtors, Okay, realtors always have beautiful cars.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I'm convinced they're all leased by the way.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Beautiful cars, beautiful clothes, beautiful jewelry. And I guess it's
part of the image they need to project. I mean, Ellen,
if you're going to go look at an apartment or
look at a house, you don't want to get in
a car that doesn't crank up. It's all ratty and
disgusting insight a right, So so I'm not judging people
(06:59):
on their cars, but it's a facade that they need
to present. This Mom got this job and had to
present this facade exactly.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
It's part of the job to make it. It's part
of the presentation, to make the whole experience seem like
something that you want to participate in. Her job isn't
just selling the weight loss patches, it's also selling other
people taking the kind of job that she has. She's
recruiting as well, so she has to protect project an
image that makes us look very, very enticing.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
So she starts this job, and even amidst the new
job where she's really having to work and travel out
of town away from her two kids, they still are
considering selling the house.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Ellen, Yeah, they.
Speaker 5 (07:42):
Ever told a reporter that just this week that Chris
has kind of off handedly mentioned that they were considering
selling the house. So it's really hard to say what
their financial situation was like. It seems like obviously there
had been some trouble in the past, but after they
filed for BANKERCP is when Shandan got this job, and
also Chris had been working at the petroleum company, so
(08:04):
they're both working, but it's her. They've got two children,
They've got another on the way. That's a lot of
financial pressure. It's hard to know how easily they really
were making nat because, like you said, a big part
of Shannon's job was making the job look really, really
attractive to other people.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
All we know is that, well, what was his job?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
What was his job? Christopher Wats's job?
Speaker 5 (08:26):
You work for a petroleum company. You've been working there
since at least twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
I want to get back to her going missing Ellen.
When did that happen? Give me the timeline. She had
just gotten.
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Back from yet another work trip on early in the
Monday morning hours.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Wait, I want to close something up.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
I want to clearse something up with me, Doctor Michelle Dupree,
Joe Scott Morgan, also New York psychiatrist, doctor Judith Joseph.
You know, I don't know if you have to travel
for work, doctor Michelle Duprey. But it sounds so glamorous.
It's not glamorous, like this woman went to New Orleans, Toronto,
Punta Kinda, Dominican Republic, Puerto Valerta, Vega, San Diego. When
(09:09):
you travel for work, doctor Michelle Duprie, it is not glamorous.
I typically get off of a plane. I go straight
to the work site, dragging my beat up suitcase behind me,
and I get there.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I work.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
I work late because I want to hurry and work
as lady as I can so I can get back earlier.
End up spending the night in a hotel, grab something
on the way, and then I get up as quickly
as I can, sometimes at three or four in the
morning to get to the airport to get back home.
That's not glamorous, doctor Michelle Duprie, You're.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Exactly right, Nancy.
Speaker 7 (09:45):
It is not very timing and you are worn out
by the time you can hunt.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
So tell me this.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
She gets back Ellen from one of these trips, and
what happens.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
She gets back late, early in the hours of Monday morning,
he goes to work at five am. Apparently they stay
up together for three or four hours talking, and he
admitted that it was an emotional conversation. So that's going
to be a really big question in this case. What
was going on in that quote unquote emotional conversation. Well,
so she wasn't seen again after that.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Well, you know, when one partner travels a lot. To
Doctor Judith Joseph, renowned New York psychiatrists joining us. That's
very hard. As a matter of fact, doctor Judith went,
my husband traveled constantly.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
He would leave on.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Sunday night and get back if I was lucky on
Friday night. Our entire relationship. When we had the twins,
I said, listen, son's got to give. I cannot work
and be on call for crime related stories twenty four seven,
three sixty five, and you be gone. It's just it's well,
you know what. He started his own business so he
(10:59):
could name his own hours. But doctor Judith, not everybody
is that fortunate to be able to just go run
out and start your own business.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And it's hard when one.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
That's very stressful in a family with two taughts and
another on the way, for one parent.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
To be gone all the time.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I guess they did have an emotional conversation.
Speaker 6 (11:19):
I agree with you, Nancy. You know, traveling is hard
on anyone, to even people who don't have children. Stuff
us on depression, anxiety, sleep disorders related to extensive traveling.
And so then when you put that stress into the
mix with two young children, a husband who's sharing the
brunt of things, and you know, traditionally in our society,
(11:40):
some parts of this country are still very very traditional.
It's not common for the mother to leave the home,
and so lot there probably were a lot of feelings there,
and you know, sometimes people become in the community about
about this, and so I'm not sure what was happening
with this then in particular. However, you're absolutely right. Travel
(12:00):
is stressful, and when one parent has to stay behind
and one partner has to be behind, sometimes the imagination
goes wild, and their accusations of jealousy and infidelity, and
we don't know what was happening in this family.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Also in Chris Watts's letters, he says, as I mentioned,
I've always taken full responsibility for what I did the
rest of that sentence, even though I was misled by
a wicked woman. He seems to be blaming his mistress
for him murdering his family. Now, is that taking full responsibility? No,
(12:45):
it is not. And ps which mistress are we talking about?
There have been so many in their disappearance and murders.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Her flight got delayed from Arizona because father storms around
the nation. You're supposed to get home like a and
then she got home at like one. If she came
home from the airport two am and I left around
five point fifteen. She was still here, and like about
twelve ten in that afternoon, her friend Nicole showed up
(13:13):
at the door. Like I had texted Shan a few
times that day, called her say you know, but she
never got back to me. But she wasn't get back
to any of her people as well. And that's what
really concerned a lot of people, is like she's not
getting back to her Like if she doesn't get back
to me, that's fine, Like she gets busy during the day,
but she get back to her people, which was very concerning.
And Nicole called me when she was at the door,
and that's when they came home and then walked in
(13:35):
the house and nothing vanished. Nothing was here. I mean,
she wasn't She wasn't here, the kids weren't here, nobody
was here.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
We are discussing the case of Shannon Watts. We want justice.
Shannon goes missing along with her two children, Bella and
Celeste little Toss, and to top it all off, Shannon
is pregnant. I recall covering a case and I learned
a startling statistics. I believe it was from the New
(14:06):
England Journal of Medicine that the number one cause of
death amongst pregnant women in the US is homicide. The
number one cause of death. It's not heart failure, it's
not stroke, it's not anything you may imagine. It is homicide.
Very disturbing, joining me, Doctor Michelle Dupree, Joseph Scott Morgan
(14:30):
doctored jud Joseph and Ellen Calaurin.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
So, Ellen, she goes missing.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
We just heard the husband, Christopher Watts, begging for help
to try to find her.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I'm thinking this, Sooth.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
It's not like she'd run away with another man and
bring the two little girls, Bella and Celeste with her. Also,
she came home that night, she got home from out
of town. She has this discussion, probably related to the
out of town trips she had to take. The husband
is her work at five am. She's alive and well. Then,
(15:04):
so how does she turn up dead and where?
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Ellen?
Speaker 5 (15:07):
Far as I know, there were not any accusations of
infidelity on her part, but apparently she did venture to
a friend at one point that she was wondering if
maybe her husband was being unfaithful.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Well, according to and Yes, yes, Mark Garrigos, my colleague
defense attorney for Michael Jackson, Scott Peterson, Winona Ryder. He'll
tell anybody a cheater a murderer does not make and
he's absolutely right. But I can tell you this, when
(15:40):
you have a happy family and a happy marriage, the
husband's not waiting in the shadows to push the wife
over a cliff.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I know that much.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
I also know this problems allegedly servicing just in the
past two months because a coworker of Shannon's mom said
they may have been added for divorce. Right when they're
turning the corner, Doctor Judith Joseph, the New York psychiatrist,
is joining us. They yes, they went bankrupt in twenty fifteen,
(16:12):
but they recently had enjoyed these lavish trips and alexis automobile.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Thanks to her new job.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
It took out of town a lot, and then problems
began to surface at home. And looks like they're turning
the corner on all their financial problems when she goes missing, Judith.
Speaker 6 (16:33):
Well, yeah, I think that that's the statistic that you
mentioned about pregnant women and homified being any more on
cause of that. That's so significant and people don't realize
this that partners, people who are not pregnant husbands, they
also experienced post part of depression and stress. And it's
(16:53):
not the same cause it's not hormonal. There's a lot
of transitions that people have to see when they having
multiple children, and you add the stress of finances, you
add ertal pressure and maybe a third party as someone
who's engaging in adultry, and then people explode. And you know,
(17:14):
I don't know this family in particular, I haven't treated
any of them. However, it sounds like they were trying
to create this facade disappearance that things were okay, and
clearly things were not okay.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
Well, another thing, dot you the Joseph as due to Joseph,
everybody has those problems. Everybody that is married with the
family will have children to take care of, jobs, financial pressures.
And she certainly was never accused of having a sex
relationship with anybody else.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
So why does she go missing?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
And what does all of that have to do with
her body being discovered?
Speaker 8 (17:51):
Now?
Speaker 1 (17:52):
I can tell you this much to Joseph Scott Morgan,
I'm sorry, but I just don't think men do as
well as good a job as women do raising she and.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Here he is taking care of these two children.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Ellen, how does it go from him taking care of
the children and now she's dead and goes missing?
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Ellen, Come on fast forward.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
Ellen, this is a husband who had financially struggled in
the past. He's at home alone with two daughters. His
wife is having a lot of success. They have another
baby on the way. He could have been under a
lot of stress, and he may have felt that his
role had been diminished in the family.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Well, and I'm asking you, I'm not concerned about his
male ego. Ellen. She's dead and now let me just
Q and A with myself here.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Isn't it true? Cops believed she was killed.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
In her home and then her body moved to and
a Darko Oil and gas drilling properties?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Who worked there? May I ask you that, Ellen?
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Who do we know work at Anna Darko Oil and
Gas Drilling?
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Name one for Chris Watt? Thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
That's what I'm talking about, Doctor Michelle, Do pre help
me out here? Pathologists, medical examiner, you know what you
and I talk about. When somebody kills, they very often
will do it or dispose of the body in a
place they are familiar. And I always point to Scott
Peterson he's a fisherman. He goes fishing in San Francisco
(19:25):
Bay all the time. He fishes, he golfs, and he cheats.
He fishes, he golfs, and he cheats. It's like rents
and repeat on the back of your shampoo. He fishes,
he golfs, and he cheats. Where is lazy his dead
wife and unborn child Connor in San Francisco Bay because
he's comfy there, he goes and dumps the bodies there,
Doctor Michelle, you see it over and over.
Speaker 7 (19:47):
Exactly, you really do.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
We love it when they're dumb.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah. And here we've got in a Darco Oil and
Gas drilling one of those properties where the husband christ
her wants works and want to come and Joe Scott Morgan,
I need expertise from you regarding how they might know
the mom and the two little girls were murdered in
(20:12):
their own home.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
I called her three texted her about three times just
to say, you know, what's going on? Like I didn't
I could for that for the After I called her
and texted her once, it was like maybe she was
just busy, like she had just gotten back, you know,
like everybody's probably calling her from her trip. She just
got back from Arizona, and I figured this she was busy,
but when her friend showed up, that's what it was like,
(20:35):
it registered like, all right, this isn't.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Right right now.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
I don't even want to just like throw anything out there,
like I hope that she's somewhere safe right now and
with the kids. But I mean, could she event could
she just taken off? I don't know. But if somebody
has her and they're not safe, like I want them
back now like that that that's with them. I like,
if they're safe right now, they're going to come back.
(20:59):
But if they're not safe right now, that's the not
knowing part. Like if they're not safe. Last night I
was had everybody in the house on I was hoping
that I would just get just ran over by the
kids running in the door and just like Beryl rushing me.
But it didn't happen, and it was just a traumatic
night trying to be.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Here Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. He also says in
these letters, quote, I know God does not see me
as a sinner who killed his family. I don't think
you should be speaking for the Lord Almighty. He says,
(21:39):
I've confessed my sins, I am forgiven. Okay, that's between
you and the Lord. But you are not getting out
of jail again. You being forgiven by heaven is not
mutually exclusive, with you staying behind bars and rotting till
the day you die. Let's have a little fat check.
(22:01):
This is what happened to Shenan, Bella, Celeste and Nico.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Just remember his.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Two little girls, Bella four and Celeste three, were in
his truck as he carried their mom's body to hide
it at the oil fields where he worked. He suffocated
the two little girls one by one as they begged
for mercy and stashed their bodies in oil drums. In
addition to multiple handwritten letters, mostly about himself, he shared
(22:32):
his thoughts with an inmate, Dylan Tauman, a president in
Wisconsin who befriended Watts. Taman was in a cell next
to wattson the two became friends jail buddies. Tauman actually
released a series of books titled The Cell next Door.
He says, what's confided that his mariage to Shanan was unhappy. Really,
(22:56):
then where did the three children come from? What's wine
that Shanan was quote really busy with her job, and
that he was often the quote primary caregiver to his daughters.
So Wats claims when he lost Wade and started working out,
women started paying attention to him, and he quote met Nicole.
(23:18):
She was quote everything my wife wasn't like with me.
She was just nice and not a control freak. What's
also trashed Nicole Kessinger, claiming she Nicole quote became the
death of me. He also called her a quote Harlot
(23:40):
and a quote Jezebel who led him to destruction. Oh okay,
so now he's blaming his mistress. Okay, it's her fault
that Shannan, Bella and Celeste and the baby boy Nico
are all dead.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
He wrote a prayer of.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Confession, Chris quote, the words of a Harlot have brought
me low. Her flattering speech was like drops of honey
that pierced my heart and soul. Little did I know
that all her guests were in the chamber of death.
Can you believe this guy? What happened? I don't want
anybody to get some of those texts, like they have
(24:21):
nothing to do with this days and they're just.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Like between you and Chris, Yes, they're just they're just
so just tell me what you're they're just kind of
ron She okay, well need anybody.
Speaker 9 (24:32):
Everybody's an adult. We're gonna somewhere.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
I don't need that.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
I don't want the papers to get that.
Speaker 6 (24:39):
That's all I want.
Speaker 9 (24:40):
But the only one that we would be looking for
again is the same kind of questions we're getting to here,
is things about his children, things about his wife, the
questioning of did he ever you know, has he ever
said something to you that might indicate maybe not then,
but now that there was something like this in his mind,
or you know what we're looking for. I don't need
(25:02):
to come out and tell you that.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
You are hearing the alleged mistress of killer dad Chris Watts.
And even in light of the fact that his wife,
his pregnant wife, and two little girls were found dead,
the mom Shenan Watts buried in a shallow grave, the
two little girls found in.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
That's of oil.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
She's still whining about how she doesn't want to hand
over her cell phone to investigators because there are quote
raunchy texts. Unless you want it on page six of
the New York Post, do not put it in writing,
and really don't even say it. If it's something you're
ashamed of or something you don't repeat it, just don't
say it for Pete's sake.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
And she is impeding a.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Homicide investigation because she doesn't.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Want the world to see her.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Raunchy texts like I care about her raunchy texts. Well,
in the end, she did not the investigation. She handed
over the phone at Let's take a listen to Nicole Cassinger,
the girlfriend the mistress that finally comes forward two days
after Shania's disappearance, after she read newspaper articles.
Speaker 10 (26:14):
Listen on Tuesday, which would have been the fourteenth of August.
You had read some newspaper articles on the thirteenth and
the fourteenth.
Speaker 11 (26:24):
Regarded this case.
Speaker 10 (26:25):
You had also had a conversation with Chris at some
point during the day on Monday and on Tuesday because
of what you found. Specifically what you said was and
I don't know many put words in your mouth, but
you found out that his life whispering, and I yes,
and you did not know that prior, and you found
that out via the newspaper articles, and that caused you concern.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Well, I just realized that he was lying to me,
and I was like, well, if you can lie to
me about this? What else do you lying to me about?
And it made me realize that maybe his wife was
in danger at that point and it was too and
she still wasn't home.
Speaker 9 (27:02):
What did that cause you to do with your phone?
Speaker 6 (27:04):
Though?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Oh? When I deleted those, I was just kind of
grossed out by him, To be honest with you, I
was just like, I don't know what's going on right now,
but you just lied to me, and I don't want
to see this come over my phone anymore, so I
removed it.
Speaker 10 (27:20):
So you just you already said, but you reroot text messages.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
I deleted all of his stuff because he lied to me.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I mean, that's what it was.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
It was the hurt that made me delete it, and
then it was the lie that made me start questioning
everything else he'd been telling me for the last few days.
Speaker 10 (27:37):
And that's when you decided to come forward.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Yes, you are hearing the voice Nicole Kessinger Killer Dack.
Chris Watson is the mistress during this time, joining me
right now in addition to Susan Constantine, Vincent Hill, Ashley Wilcott.
Also with me is Ellikilaur and Crime online dot Com
investigative reporter. You say there are inconsistencies, and isn't it
(27:59):
true she has some very unusual computer searches as well.
Speaker 5 (28:04):
Well, that's exactly right, Nancy, and the computer searches are
what I see as some inconsistencies. As you hear in
her discussions with the investigators, she talks about her relationship
with Chris as one where he was more serious about
her than she was about him. She says repeatedly she
(28:25):
encouraged him to try and save his marriage. She said,
he has such a beautiful family, why not hold on
to this, this beautiful home. She says repeatedly that she
encouraged him to stay married and work on his marriage.
But once there was a data review of her phone,
(28:47):
it looks like maybe there is some inconsistencies. She had
spent two hours online of doing a Google search for
wedding dresses.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
She wait, is this the same woman that searched for
anal sex preparation?
Speaker 5 (29:05):
That is correct?
Speaker 6 (29:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (29:06):
You know, it's funny how you gloss over the hard
parts and you make me say them. Okay, in addition
to the frothy wedding dress, I'm the one that has
to blurt out the anal sex searches.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Thanks Ellen, What else do we find on her searches?
Speaker 5 (29:20):
She definitely she did a search related to terms marrying
your mistress.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Uh, well, wha, wha, wha what? What did you say?
Speaker 5 (29:31):
She did it? She did a Google search term search
of terms related to the phrase marrying your mistress?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
So she did a search on how much she could
make if she wrote a book like Amber Fry.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
She yeah, I don't think it was specifically how much
can I make if I write a book? But she
absolutely was interested in She did Google searches on Amber
Fry and her book deal and oh.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Her Okay, let me remind everybody who is Amber Fry.
Amberfry was the miss stress of Scott Peterson. Amber Fry
did not know Scott Peterson was married to a pregnant woman.
Amberfry then cooperated completely with police and actually caught Scott
Peterson in damning cell phone conversations, wire tapping.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Him and as a matter of fact, there was a.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Fear that Peterson would come kill her, but she stuck
it out and she was a star witness at the trial.
It turned everything around into Scott Peterson prosecution and the
murder of his pregnant wife. Lacey and their unborn child, Connor.
So you know, here you hear Nicole Kessinger going, wow,
I don't want you to find out to release my
(30:42):
rawchy text. Amber Fry put it out there and completely
cooperated with police. She volunteered to cooperate with police and
was a star witness. She then later wrote a book
and I hope she made a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Off that book.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
God bless her to Susan Constantine deception body language expert.
You know, I've got to give it to Nicole Kessinger.
Without her cooperation, this case may not have cracked the.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Way that it did.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
But according to Ellen Klora, and there's a lot of inconsistencies.
Speaker 7 (31:17):
Yeah, there are a lot of inconsistencies. And the thing
is is that it needs they need to go back
and be able to verify the information that she's given them.
But for overall, you know, when I'm listening to her, Nancy,
there's a lot of truth in what she's saying.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
So the issue was.
Speaker 7 (31:33):
Hard to come over is her lack of emotion. You know,
her emotion aspect is just completely off. She's very cavalier.
Her tone of her voice can is really off putting.
And so she really sets herself up for people to
really scrutinize her because her personality is shining through about
(31:55):
how she you know, how how she sees the entire
situation and she how detached that she is. The part
that bothers me the most is that she is trying
to pretend like, hey, I'm coming in, I'm the savior,
work things out with your wife, but yet she's kind
of like pushing them away, but then kind of motioning
to come closer. So she's she's very manipulative.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
At one point, he told me that they sat down
and they talked about it, and he told her that
he wanted to either fix things or like to try
to fix things, and if she didn't want to fix them,
then they needed to move forward with the separation and
like actually file for a divorce at this point was
the impression that I got from.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
This and was what he told me.
Speaker 6 (32:38):
And so.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
He said that she was like pretty receptive to just
not trying. He was like, she seemed like she just
wants me to go. He's like, when she has her
mind made up, she has her mind made up and
that's what she wants. And he's like, she doesn't want
to try anymore, and he's like, and neither do I
really And he was like it's done, and he's like
and then and the next day, I don't even know
(33:02):
what daisies were. Sometime when he was out there, he
told me.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
We're putting the.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
House up her sale as soon as we get back.
And I was like, well, that was quick, and he
was like, it's her, she's ready to go, and I
was like, okay.
Speaker 12 (33:16):
It's the dramatic moment tops confront Chris Watts's mistress after
he murdered his pregnant wife and two daughters to start
a new life with her.
Speaker 6 (33:24):
Why would you.
Speaker 12 (33:26):
Why your family to be The just released video shows
thirty year old Nicole Kessinger being interrogated did you.
Speaker 9 (33:34):
Ever see anything with him about her or never? Anything
about his kids being a problem, or anything about his.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
Wife being a pro never?
Speaker 4 (33:45):
This shocked me just as much as I think get
shocked the rest of the world.
Speaker 12 (33:49):
She breaks down sobbing over the gruesome fate of the children,
four year old Bella and three year old Celested.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Ugh, he's so disgusting. I'm so ashamed of why?
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Whoa?
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Why? Why?
Speaker 11 (34:02):
How?
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I don't even understand how you could bring yourself to
do that somebody who's like that. Bit you are hearing
girlfriend Nicole Kessinger, and you were hearing our friend at
Inside Edition, Jim Murray Susan Constantine Deception of body language expert.
What do you make of that where Nicole Kessinger the
(34:23):
Mistress breaks down in tears.
Speaker 7 (34:25):
Well, it came on very sudden, so that's the one
thing that I look for, and also how quickly she
recovers after it. So that's what I'm looking at, is
that it's not unusual for someone just to break down,
But when you listen to her voice, there is there.
I'm listening for these kind of breaks or pauses and
the voice, but I'm not really hearing that. I'm not
(34:47):
saying that she does not feel that way. I think
that she does. But what bothers me the most is
how quickly the onset of that emotion was and then
how quick it ended that because there should be remnants
of it throughout Once she has finished making that statement,
you should still hear her voice foil cracking up afterwards.
(35:10):
So even though she's emotionally upset, she quickly gets over
it awfully fast.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
That's suspicious to me.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
To Ellenclaurincrime online dot Com investigative reporter, you mentioned inconsistencies.
What other inconsistencies have you discovered? Because I think not
only was she genuinely upset about the best of the
deaths of Belle and Celeste, but also was distancing herself
because if she had known anything about this murder plot,
(35:39):
she would have been erupted in at doing jail time
right now.
Speaker 5 (35:42):
Yes, One thing that I want to make clear is
that even though there are some inconsistencies in her story,
it's also very clear that Chris Wats lied to her.
She did not know Shannan Wats was pregnant, and he
told her that Shannan was gritty ready to leave the marriage,
when that is a one.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Hundred percent not true.
Speaker 7 (36:00):
We see that.
Speaker 5 (36:02):
However, there's one other incident of the interrogation when Nicole
tells Poliefe that she never told any of her friends
or anyone about her relationship with Chris because it was
very early on and she was still, you know, working
through a separation. But that ended up not being the case.
She did have a text message exchange with a girlfriend
(36:25):
about her relationship with Chris, but and she called investigators
the next day and told them.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
That alexis Terreschuk not just the girlfriend we've been listening
to Nicole Cassinger, but also some other woman who played
these kinky sex games with killer dad Chris Watts.
Speaker 8 (36:45):
There was a second mistress, a woman named Amanda, and
her name was secret. All during you know, his wife
took their children to both of their parents were in
North Carolina, so she went for six weeks in the.
Speaker 5 (36:58):
Summer with her girls when they.
Speaker 8 (36:59):
Were out of school, to stay with his parents and
her parents for a vacation. And that is when he
went wild. He was like a bachelor. Even his friends
had joked with him, and this was all the police report.
Police report that the county has released that the friends
sent him a text and said, how is your life
as a bachelor? And he lied to his friends.
Speaker 5 (37:19):
He said, oh, you don't.
Speaker 8 (37:20):
I'm just working out.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I'm not doing anything else.
Speaker 8 (37:22):
He wasn't working out, working out there, working out.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I can make a lot of career jugs right now,
but I'm not jumping.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
Into a new relationship is a little quick. It's like
I was in a relationship earlier this year, and I
think this is also a little quick, and I'm like,
so why don't we take our time? And I'm like,
if you guys end up doing a week on a
week off with your kids and like the week you
have your kids being with your children, and the week
that you don't, I'm like, I don't even want to
see you every day. I'm like, I think we should
(37:50):
spend like a few days of that together. I'm like,
because I like my space and I think you need
your space. I think you need your space to like
develop your identity again and like get it back because
I think he's just been like so wrapped up in
this whole thing that he's got in his own life
and his life that he I mean, he doesn't remember
probably what it's like to be single or have time
where it's like just him.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
And so I was just like, you know, like embrace that.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
It's a beautiful thing, and I really try to like
take it smart with all that. And it was the
same thing with his kids. It was just like you know,
like and I and we talk about things every once
in a while where you know, i'd be like, hey,
if I ever meet you know, because like I have
a lot of houseplants. It's a good example so I
have a lot of house plants, and I told I
told him, I was like, one day, if I ever
meet your kids, I was like, I'm going to show
(38:35):
these girls how to like paint, pottery and plants plants.
It was like, I think they would love to see
something grow that they build. I think it would be
really really cute and like little stuff like that. But
it wasn't very frequent. It wasn't hey we should get married,
and hey we should have babies, and hey I want
to live with but hey, me to meet your children now,
and let's cut the mom out.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
It was never like that.
Speaker 10 (38:56):
If there was never any conversation about, you know, we
can't do this with her around, you can't do this
with the kids around. He never said that.
Speaker 7 (39:02):
You never said that.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah, maybe they didn't talk about the marriage and the
moving in because there was a problem his wife, Shananne,
the pregnant wife. You know, I'm listening to the girlfriend
Nicole Kessinger. Were these statements like sa to Rustchuk before
or after the bodies were found?
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Before?
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Okay, so she didn't yet know that the wife and
the children were dead. Okay, that's a little bit that
alleviates some of this because I was wondering, how could
she talk about all that when the bodies had just
been recovered.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
You know.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Another aspect to this is police were listening to her,
but they were probably also looking at her as a
potential person of interest, potential. She did not have anything
to do with these murders, let's just be clear about that.
So the wife and the children at this point are missing,
and she's just talking as fast as she can. She
conveniently left out the search for wedding dresses to people.
(40:05):
Quote hate Amber Fry, who was Scott Peterson's mistress when
Lacy's pregnant wife was murdered. How to prepare for anal sex. Oh,
let's see, there's just so many to choose from.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
I don't really know what to pick first.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Alexis Terschuk. I doubt pretty seriously she knew his plan
to murder his wife and children, or that he had
another mistress.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Bring us up to date to Alexis to Restchuck.
Speaker 8 (40:35):
So I don't think she did know that he had
another mistress. There was a woman named Amanda, and she
we secretly interviewed her before her name became public, and
she told us that she met Chris on a dating
app and they had a really dirty one night stand.
She said that he was into he wanted to do
a rape fantasy, that he choked her out while they
(40:58):
had sex, and she.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Oh, I in the right fantasy.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Was he the victim or was she the victim?
Speaker 5 (41:04):
He was the victim, so he was.
Speaker 8 (41:07):
He was the one that was raping her in their
sex fantasy.
Speaker 5 (41:10):
That was consensual.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
She said, all that rage, all that hate towards women,
I just okay.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Go ahead.
Speaker 8 (41:16):
And she said that she really she had a really
good time with it. She thought he was really attractive
and it was a really sexy one night's dancer. Yeah.
So he started cheating on his wife, his pregnant wife,
basically the same minute she got pregnant, and then he
moved on to not just cheating her, but having a
full born relationship and a woman who thought they were
going to get married. This is somebody who he facetimed
(41:40):
with this mistress. He so he killed his wife and children.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Why are you acting so indignant that the mistress thought
they were going to get married. The mistress knew he
was already married, I guess, and she thought he was a.
Speaker 8 (41:52):
Marry in type. But he would just bounce back from
one and marry her again. And so the night that
the women went missing. In the first night, I'm sorry
the daughters and his wife, he sat on his bed,
his unmade bed in his bedroom, on his phone, his iPhone,
and facetimed with her so she could see. He said
he was in bed where his wife had most likely died,
(42:14):
and that he.
Speaker 5 (42:15):
Was just chatting with her.
Speaker 8 (42:17):
She said he was staring at her very intently, and
he wasn't crying about his children missing or his wife missing.
He was just carrying on like a flirty conversation with her,
knowing that his wife was He had killed his wife
and his daughters in that very house within the last
twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
You know, it's interesting that people worry about the you, Alexis,
let me be clear, worry about how the mistress was hurt.
You know, to hey with the mistress, she knew full
well he was married with children, although although I don't
think she knew the wife was pregnant. Vincent Hill, private investigator,
(42:56):
author of playbook to Murder. So often the defense will
be and I remember Mark Gerriges, who never agree with him,
but he is a good defense lawyer would always say,
an adulterer does not a murderer make, and that's true.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Just because you're having.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
An affair, it does not mean you're going to commit murder.
But in domestic homicides, very often you will find when
the wife is murdered by the husband, there has been
an affair. So the converse to me is true. Very
often in domestic homicides, you will find the killer is
an adulterer. True adulterer doesn't mean a killer necessarily, but
(43:31):
the reverse may very well be true. Vincent, He'll they
had to know they were going to dig up at
least one mistress.
Speaker 11 (43:37):
Vincent, what's really disturbing Nancy. I think with this other
mistress that he met on Tender or whatever dating website,
it was the fact that he wanted to play out
this rape fantasy and strangle her. I think he was
kind of setting the tone of what he was going
to do with his wife. And I wouldn't be surprised
if more women came forward at a later time, whether
(43:58):
it's from ten years ago, and say, yeah, he liked
to choke or strangle or something like that. So I
think all the signs were there this whole time, and
luckily for this other mistress. I think she got out
kind of lucky. To be honest with you, well, you.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Know what, You're right, You're right.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
And again, although we're giving her a hard time, she
is in no way implicated in his murderous plan. As
a matter of fact, listen to girlfriend Nicole Kessinger.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
You, no, it wasn't fair to his family for him
to have an affair.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
It wasn't fair.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
To me to have him lie to me and make
me think that Ivan is the plan. And still to
this day, I don't even know what's lie and what's not.
I don't even know if they were like filing for divorce.
I don't know if they were putting the house up.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
I don't even know. I don't even know anymore what
is real and what it's not.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
But what I do know is it's just like, you know,
that wasn't.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
Fair to me either, because if I hadn't know him,
not even all the truth, but like obviously some of it,
I wouldn't have even engaged in any of this in
the first place. I mean, and that's the part for me,
just like on my personal level, outside of everything that
is happening, that is gonna affect me long term, It's like,
(45:13):
you know, I'm gonna wake up every day and know
that like his mom and her unborn child and these
two little girls are not around anymore, and it breaks
my heart.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
It is, oh my god, in any.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
And then I have to think about like the consequences
of his actions and how they affect everybody else, like
all of these her famili's impacted. My name is about
to be like slandered for probably a while.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Elsewhere in these letters, Watts continues to repeat his quote
Jezebel mistress Nicole Kessinger is really responsible quote quote oh
why stars this idiot? Quote I have the appeals court
says this again, quote she was a harlot. Does somebody
(46:03):
actually still say harlot? I guess so she was a harlot,
a Jezebel who led me astray, who spoke sweet words
of destruction. But I will let God have his justice
with her. I was weak, and I let her cloud
my morals and my judgment. Oh kay, she was never
(46:23):
implicated in any of this. She had nothing to do
with the murders. As he is quote taking full responsibility.
He's blaming the woman he conned into an affair. One
of the many women he conned into an affair. Now
he's saying she's a Jezebel. Who is Jezebel? I think
(46:47):
he's talking about the biblical queen Jezebel, known for her
wicked and immoral and immoral actions. Oh this guy, Okay,
Nicole Passinger had nothing to do with these murders. He
did it all on his own. Chris Watts, you may
(47:10):
have gotten forgiveness by the Lord, but don't expect any
special treatment from Lady Justice. Goodbye, friends,
Host
Nancy Grace
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