June 24, 2024 • 41 mins
Billie Jean Jackson is driving past the creek near 400 West Rankin Road and sees what she thinks might be a mannequin.
The image was lifelike enough to make her turn around and check it out for sure. Getting a good look, Jackson realizes, it is not a mannequin and calls 911.
On Sunday night, Jocelyn Nungaray's mother, Alexis reminds her not to stay up too late as Jocelyn is going to work with her mother in the morning. Alexis tells Jocelyn goodnight at 10 pm and turns in for the night herself. A little later when she is certain her mother is asleep, Jocelyn sneaks out of the house and goes to a local convenience store.
It is around midnight when she calls her 13-year-old boyfriend, who says he hears Jocelyn talking to some adults before he hangs up the phone. After talking to her boyfriend, Jocelyn is seen on camera at a local 7-Eleven convenience store.
In the pictures, Jocelyn Nungaray is seen with two other people, both adults. It's possibly the same people with whom her boyfriend overheard Jocelyn talking.
Around the same time Billie Jean Jackson is calling 911, Alexis Nungaray is preparing to wake up her 5-year-old son and 12-year-old daughter, Jocelyn Nungaray. Finding Jocelyn gone, Alexis reportedly pings her daughter’s cell phone location, which traces the phone to a creek near 400 West Rankin Road
Alexis Nungaray arrives at the spot where her daughter Jocelyn's phone pings and sees police tape is up and police are canvassing the area.
Alexis Nungaray tells police her daughter is missing, and she is there because this is where her phone last pinged. Officers take down information from Alexis, but it still takes an hour before she receives the call that a body has been found, and it is possibly Jocelyn.
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Dr. Bethany Marshall – Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills); X: @DrBethanyLive/ Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall; Appearing in “Paris in Love” on Peacock; BOOK: “Deal Breaker: When to work on a relationship and when to walk away”
- Michael Ybanez – Former Houston Police Homicide Detective, Licensed Private Investigator
- Lynn Shaw - Founder and Executive Director of Lynn's Warriors
- Dr. Kendall Crowns – Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth) and Lecturer: University of Texas Austin and Texas Christian University Medical School
- Corley Peel- News Reporter for KPRC2 in Houston; Instagram: @KPRC2Corley, X: @KPRC2Corley, Facebook: @KPRC2CorleyPeel
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Killer suspects cuffed Jocelyn just twelve years old, lured from
a local seven to eleven, found strangled and unclothed, tied
up in a creek. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This
is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Bombshell in the last hours, two persons of interest detained
in a twelve year old girl's brutal strangling.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
What do we know? Take a listen to the chief.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
We're here to share some very horrible news. Someone has
taken one of our innocent children Promus today. A twelve
year old little girl found her this morning and we
believe somebody did this horrible thing to her, and we
are here to ask for your help.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
I'm like angry that they just six wood had been
It's a curve.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
She's so young, so you'd take my baby away? Now,
I get too, little brother. Nole's just say that we.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Can hold that emotional video of Joson's mother from our
friends Akhou.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
It all started when we heard this.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Listen to find out if anybody knows anything, anybody saw anything,
Anybody can share that information so we can figure out
what happened to her exactly and we can find whoever
did this and get them off the street. I've talked
to this child's mother, of course, she is devastated. Her
(01:45):
family is devastating. Her little girl is gone. So we
need your help.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
This little girl goes to bed.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
My mommy goes to bed, a twelve year old little girl, Jocelyn.
Then she sneaks out for what to go about a
block to the seven to eleven and call her little boyfriend.
That's it, just a phone call. She never came home.
(02:15):
This is what more we know.
Speaker 6 (02:17):
I'm going to talk to you about an incident that
happened around six am this morning. A citizen called nine
to one one regarding a body seen in the shallow
water of the Bayou your four hundred West Brancolin Road
in the Houston's Northfelt area. Houston's Homicide Division, along with
the assistants of the Houston Department's dive team in the
Harris County Medical Examiner's Office, we're able to recover that
(02:37):
body out of the shallow water there. Harris County's Medical
Examiner's Office is completing an official identification of the victim.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
That little twelve year old girl has been murdered and
we believe raped by who. According to police, two illegal
immigrants also known as non citizen migrants, one of them
allegedly cutting off his ankle monitor after the murder. That's right,
(03:10):
let that sink in. One of them cutting off his
criminal ankle monitor after the twelve year old little girl
is murdered. So at the time, this little girl is stripped,
tied up, kept under a bridge, being tortured for two hours,
(03:33):
lured away from that payphone by these two. There's no
other way to say it, animals, he's wearing an ankle monitor.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
He's already committed a crime.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
There she is, thinking she's on a real adventure, sneaking
to a payphone to call her little thirteen year old
boyfriend to say good night. In the background, the little
boyfriend hears adult voices to adult voices.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
There they are who walks.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Up to a little twelve year old girl, lures her
away only to rape and strangle her, strip her under
a bridge, and tie her up, and then throw her
half clothed body into a creek.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
These two, that's who, why are they even here?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Joining me in all star panel to make sense of
what we know right now?
Speaker 1 (04:28):
But have any of you had it with.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Violent crime, especially on children, much less by illegal immigrants
that are not supposed to be here anyway. Why why
are they here? Why are they lurking around unapprehended? And
now this little girl is dead again? Joining me in
All Star panel, but first to Coraley Peel, investigative reporter
(04:54):
kp RC two in Houston. Thank you for being with us. Cory,
start at the beginning, Go ahead.
Speaker 7 (05:01):
Thank you so much Nancy for having me. This tragic
story starts when Alexis Nungray tucked her twelve year old
daughter Alexis in bed Sunday night. Last Sunday. She was
expected to go to work with her mother the next morning,
so she said everything was normal, nothing seemed unusual. She
(05:22):
went to bed around ten o'clock that night, and the
next morning she realized that her daughter was missing. So
she gets in her car. She drives around the neighborhood
looking for her. She starts pinging her daughter's phone, and
when she pings her phone, it takes her to the
creek where she sees a crime scene and detectives.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Corly Peel, that is every appearance worst nightmare, because when
I can't find the twins, my children. I just go
look at life thirty sixty and I see where they are,
and they're where they're supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
And I'm just imagining this mom.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
And it was really early in the morning, and Jocelyn,
the twelve year old little girl, was going with mommy
to work that morning, and mommy told her that just
before they went to bed, go to bed, Go to bed.
You gotta get up early because you're going to work
with me, and Mommy goes to sleep.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
This is what we know. Listen.
Speaker 8 (06:16):
Joscelyn Nungary is a helpful, bright, funny girl. At twelve
years old. She helps her mother with her little brother
and at school, she's one of the most popular. On
Sunday night, Jocelyn's mother, Alexis Nungary, reminds her not to
stay up too late, as Jocelyn is going to work
with her in the morning. Alexis tells Jocelyn good night
at ten pm and turns in for the night herself.
(06:38):
A little after ten PM, when she is certain her
mother is asleep, Jocelyn sneaks out of the house and
goes to a local convenience store. It's around midnight when
she calls her thirteen year old boyfriend, who says he
hears Joscelyn talking to some adults before he hangs up
the phone.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Joining me.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Doctor Bethany Marshall Renow psychoanalyst, joining us from LA. You
can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany,
thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
You know, I've.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Actually heard people horrible, people attacking the little girl and
the mom. It was a couple of blocks away. For
what is she out dealing drugs? Is she out hoaring around?
Is she out joy riding, stealing a car, vandelizing, doing pot,
doing anything wrong? No, she goes to call and say
good night to the little boyfriend who's just thirteen, and
(07:25):
he's at home with his parents. That's it, And some
people have actually vilified it. You know, a lot of
people not me, because I was afraid that I wasn't
afraid of what my parents would do to me.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I was afraid they be disappointed in me.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I never snuck out, but I can't say the same
for my brother and sister or anybody else I know
that didn't sneak out and do something and actually get
back in without getting caught. But I hate that, Bethany,
Will people do anything, come up with anything, fabricate anything
to blame a victim. I think I know why they
(08:02):
do it, because it isolates them from a crime like
that'll never happen to me and my child. But this
is a twelve year old little girl who was about
to get up at the crack of dawn to go
with mommy to work.
Speaker 5 (08:16):
Nancy. People are saying all kinds of horrible things, like
why did the mother go to bed before her daughter
went to bed, Why did the little girl sleep sneak
out of the window, why did she have a boyfriend?
To put this in context, Nancy, by the time children
are twelve years old, they are beginning a developmental trajectory
where they will start to distance themselves from their parents
(08:36):
sometimes and start to cling to their peers. They're preparing
to leave home when they're seventeen, eighteen, or nineteen. It's
how their brains are developing and growing. So that's why
you see them always wanting to play video games with
other people, or talk on the phone with their friends,
or look on social media. It's because their brains are
(08:57):
programmed to do that. All she wanted to do was
say good night to her little boyfriend. This is a
twelve year old child who was doing what twelve year
olds do, and she was from a normal family with
a normal mother who was going to have a sweet
day with her the next day, taking her daughter to
(09:18):
work with her.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, it's this little girl sneaks out of the house
to call the little boyfriend on her cell.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
She never makes it home.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Joining me an all star panel, Courly Peele joining us
kp RC two. Where was the mom working? Why was
little Joscelyn going with mom to work the next morning?
Speaker 7 (09:40):
Now, she didn't reveal that information as to exactly what
they were going to do the next day at work,
but she said they just came back from a vacation
in that weekend, so you know, she told.
Speaker 9 (09:51):
Her they were going to get up early.
Speaker 7 (09:53):
It was going to be a completely normal day for them, essentially,
you know, at summertime, she doesn't have school, so she
was just going to just tag along with her mom
who worked the next day. But it was just a heartbreaking,
you know, situation to hear from her mother. She was
just you saw those tears streaming down her face as
(10:13):
she just plead for help, just in disbelief as this
could happen to her twelve year old daughters.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
So again, like we mentioned parents' worst.
Speaker 7 (10:24):
Nightmare, no one thinks that their child's not going to
be there when they wake up in the morning.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Joining me, Lynn Shaw, a founder executive director of Lynn's Warriors,
committed to ending human trafficking and sexploitation, particularly of children. Lynn,
when I read this story, I could barely contain myself
just twelve years old. I'm remembering my children at age twelve,
(11:01):
completely innocent, completely innocent, and this little girl all on
board to go to work with mommy the next morning,
never complaining great grades. You saw her playing, I believe
a cello. I mean, there's just a perfect little girl.
And to end like this, this horrible death. When I
think of those two one with an ankle monitor on,
(11:26):
I mean a lot of times, Lynn, we don't allow
ourselves to think about the facts, the actual facts of
what happened. We hear, oh, okay, little girl found dead
in a creek under a bridge, and we stop right there.
We don't follow that through that chain of thought. But
(11:46):
these two animals lured this little girl away from the
seven to eleven where she was using her cell phone.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
They lure her to a bridge area.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I don't know when they started forcing her there or not,
but they're walking along with her like they're friends. They
get her down under the bridge, strip her, tie her up,
I believe, rape her, and then strangle her and throw
her body into this.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
By you, I mean like she's trash Lynn, Nancy.
Speaker 9 (12:25):
We work so hard with missing children, sex traffic children,
labor traffic children. This story came across to me very
early on, and I said to myself, I bet you
it's very nefarious. I bet you it has something to
do with our open borders. Let's call it what it is.
I saw this story of a twelve year old and
(12:46):
for me to get tears in my eyes, I'm pretty
hardened about all of this. I am tired of this, Nancy.
I am tired of everybody making light of what's going
on in America. We have on any given day twenty
three hundred children in the United States. There is more
to this story. I believe what the work we do
then we're hearing about. First of all, I heard that
(13:09):
she was with her boyfriend and went to a restaurant
to meet these two. I heard that then I heard
she was calling her boyfriend. Then I heard the Houston
mayor say she was raped. Then it was walked back.
Nobody else will say right now she was actually raped.
They said that is pending the sexual assault. Well, I
(13:29):
think when you are dumped in a creek with your
pants missing and there's all of this, somebody with an ankle,
I don't even call it an ankle bracelet. Why are
they here in the first place? Ankle bracelet eat People's illegal.
They do not belong here. Kids have been jumping out
their windows and doors for years, sneaking out of the house. Nancy,
(13:49):
Why did she go out of the house. Was there
something she aline that was happening? Was the boyfriend urging
her to meet him somewhere? We do not know, but
I want question and I leave you with this. We
have alarms now when somebody breaks in a home or
a business. I'm calling for alarms when kids, anybody is
breaking out. We live in a society now we have
(14:11):
to step up. This is the reality, dark and ugly.
If a child's trying to leave a home, an alarm
will go off on a window or door. This is
what we're faced with today.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
A twelve year old little girl is lured away by
two adult males that we now are two non citizen
migrants aka illegal aliens, one still wearing.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
An ankle monitor. Lured under a.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Bridge, She's found stripped, bound and dead, strangled, dead, and
thrown into the water. Joining me Michael Yvonnees, former Houston
Police homicide detective, now PI AT y two investigate gations. Michael,
(15:01):
thank you for being with us. You know Lenna's right.
No one will say they rate the little girl. Then
why were her pants off? Why was she stripped? Why
was she bound? Why are cops saying this much that
she was held under the bridge for two hours at least?
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Why? Why?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Why all those circumstances if she was not sex assaulted
and then murdered. Can you imagine this child begging to
go back home to mommy in the middle of the night,
begging for them to leave her alone, begging to live,
and they strangled her anyway? Can you imagine that that's
what happened, That is what happened to Michael.
Speaker 10 (15:44):
Of course, Nancy, all those signs are indicative of sexual assault,
and you and I and common sense people, we probably
know that the police are being cautious and what they
tell you and what they released to the public to
preserve their investigation. There, they're trying to preserve it for
court and they don't want to They don't want to
make any statement that might upset this case. Further down
(16:07):
the road, back.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
To special guest journing us Corley Peel, investigative reporter kp
R C two. Coray, what do we know about these
two guys? I want to talk about them.
Speaker 7 (16:16):
Yeah, well, we've learned that they are originally from Venezuela.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
They've been living in.
Speaker 7 (16:22):
Houston for about a month. That's according to neighbors who
live at the apartment complex where they were arrested. We
don't know a whole lot right now, but we do
know that they were.
Speaker 5 (16:35):
Stopped by Border patrol.
Speaker 7 (16:38):
Martinez was stomped I believe back in March near al Paso,
and the other man was stomped in May. So still
a lot to unpack here about their background, but we
do know that they were here in the US illegally.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
This is what more we are learning. Incredible police. I
don't know if you recall Jennifer Dulos, the missing Connecticut
mom of five. Her body has never been found but
due to a copious amount of blood in her garage,
it has been determined that her husband Photused Dulos and
his girlfriend, his mistress, Michel Tconis, had a hand in
(17:18):
her death.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
He murdered her.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
This mother of five goes missing, and what the local
police do, in conjunction with others is they put together
and I believe this is what's.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Being done right now.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
It's not already been done in the Brian Coburger quadruple
homicide case and Moscow.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
They put together.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
A montage okay, like a real a demo reel okay,
and they follow the perp or the victim through red
light cams through I remember in Jennifer Dulos there was
a public bus that opened its doors and you see
the husband photos Dulos driving by and somebody else car.
(18:00):
To get it detailed because Jennifer's DNA is all over it,
they use traffic cams, tag grabbers, anything, toll bridges, anything
with a camera, home security cam, and they put together
a timeline in video. And I believe that is what
(18:22):
the police very wisely did here.
Speaker 11 (18:25):
Listen, our team has worked tirelessly tracking evidence in this
case since the discovery of Joscelyn by a citizen on
the morning of June seventeenth, twenty twenty four. Because of
the assistance of the area community and surveillance video that
our officers have tirelessly tracked down and other evidence heary pieces,
we have found and learned that the suspects began their
(18:48):
evening at a Northborough area restaurant together. They left that
restaurant on foot southbound.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
And more of what we know about the two defendants
now charged with capital martyr of a twelve year old
little girl their movements.
Speaker 11 (19:05):
Listen, the suspects continued south and we're first seen on
a camera and those are the images that we released
to you to all of you into the public. Suspects
seen meeting the victim and talking for a few minutes
while they were on Kirkandal. Later, the suspects and the
victim walked together to a convenience store and those images
were also released to you guys in the public. After
(19:28):
a few minutes, all three together walked to a bridge
where ultimately Joscelyn was murdered. Suspects continue south towards their
residence after leaving Joscelyn there.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Oh, they're totally busted.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
They are following them through veryous surveillance videos. They'll probably
bring in cell phone pings, all sorts of digital proof
to show it's these two guys that took Joscelyn then
forced her down under a bridge, reminiscent of the two
little girls in Delphi forced under a trestle bridge.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Now, who sees this little girl at the seven eleven?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
All she's doing is thinking out to call her a
little boyfriend on her cell phone, So Mommy won't hear.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Who sees this girl and thinks, hey, I'm going to.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Rape her and murder her? Nobody except these two. I
was asking you earlier, what do we know about these guys.
We know that they are Jose Roguel Martinez and Franklin
Jose Pina Ramos, and they are both here illegally. Ramos
discovered crossing the border with a large group of migrants,
(20:37):
given a notice to appear in San Antonio court August
twenty nine. What he immediately disappears. We know Ibarra placed
on a program, a.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Ankle monitor program.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
He immediately cut off that monitor and disappeared. April twenty
twenty three. Yeah, that's who's here. Both of them just
disappear into the wind. We know a fifty three thousand
to have.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Disappeared under similar circumstances. Where are they? Maybe in your backyard?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Joining me now is a renowned chief medical examiner out
of Terrance County.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
That's Fort Worth.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Never lack a business there, Doctor Kendall Crowns, who has
performed thousands of autopsies, including on children. Lecturer at the
Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank
you for being with us. Explain to me how an
autopsy will be performed on this twelve year old little girl.
Speaker 12 (21:46):
What do you do so in a case of strangulation,
you would still follow the same procedure as of an
autopsy that you usually do. An external examination making note
of any march stars or tattoos evidence of injury, and an
internal examination is performed where a y shaped decision is
made and each organ is removed and dissected. But then
(22:07):
a layered neck dissection will be done where each layer
of the muscles of the neck are peeled back looking
for injuries, and then the throat structures will be exposed,
removed and evaluated. So looking at the highwaid bone which
is this U shaped bone in your neck that can
be broken in strangulation and the thyroid cartilage, which is
(22:27):
a structure right above your windpipe that also is often
broken in strangulation cases.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
How will you determine, doctor Kendall Crowns, whether or not
the little girl had been raped?
Speaker 12 (22:40):
So an evaluation of her genitalia will be done looking
at her vagina in anal orifices or the areas around it,
looking for contusions, abrasions, tears of bruises, that type of
injury you can usually find that in rape cases.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
You surveillance shows twelve year old just with two unknown
men at a convenience store in the dead of the night.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
And even now online trolls are attacking the mom and
the little girl. This twelve year old little girl was
doing nothing more than sneaking a cell phone call to
her little thirteen year old boyfriend at the nearby seven
to eleven, and she ends up dead, stripped, strangled, and
(23:26):
thrown into the water. Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renown
psycho analysts out of La Doctor Bethany, what does the
treatment of this little girl mean to you as it
relates to the minds of the two perpetrators.
Speaker 5 (23:40):
Well, for one, I think she had three factors that
they were looking for. Availability, vulnerability, and desirability. She's such
a cute little girl. She's vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
They can have their.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
Way with her. Nancy, and I think these guys wanted
to have power and control over a female. They were
full of rage, and Nancy the male done this before.
I mean, these two guys are acting in concert to terrorize,
rape and do whatever they want to do. Remember John
Lee Malvo obviously, John Alvin and John Allen Muhammad were
(24:13):
they They worked in concert to terrorize the DC area.
They were full of rage, they came from another country.
They wanted to come up against unsuspecting victims. I was
thinking about that with these two, especially since they have
a gang history, Like what were they really planning and
that area that they had moved into. Did they want
(24:35):
to pray on other unsuspecting victims or were they hatching
some plot? But definitely they chose this little girl because
she's tiny, she's vulnerable. They could have their way with her.
These monsters, they're not going to come up against peers
or somebody more powerful than them. Imagine what happens when
they have to come up against the police or now
(24:57):
they're being questioned or they have to answer or to investigators.
These guys are cowards, deep down, homicidal cowards who only
wanted their way with a little girl. It is so
terrible and tragic.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
You know another thing, Doctor Bethany Marshall, is these two
we now know thanks to local police and especially that
detective Steven Hope. You were hearing earlier that these two
went out and were spotted at a restaurant, and they're
caught on surveillance video at a restaurant having dinner.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
It's almost like they go out for dinner in a.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Movie and they use up the little girl and just
throw her away like that, throw a popcorn down at
the AMC.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
That's how she's treated, Nancy.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
These animals have no regard for life. And when I
heard about the restaurant, I was thinking, were they just
sitting ordering hamburgers and French fries and talking about who
they're going to murder? I would not be surprised if
they were stirring it up and actually stimulating each other,
because we know even with criminals who get out of jail,
sometimes they emerge more for us, traded and more ready
(26:01):
to offend because of their incarceration experiences, and these guys
have been roaming, you know, they go over the border
there and they interact with law enforcement. It's almost like
there's this hatred and vindictiveness building up inside of them,
this sense that the world is against them, that they
have to assert power somewhere. And remember, it's rumored that
(26:25):
they have a criminal background, a gain background, which tells
me that they've been in an environment where there's socially
sanctioned sociopathy, so that not only are they criminals, sadists,
rapists on their own, but they've been a part of
a society where men do this kind of thing, Nancy.
So this becomes a perfect storm, which is the reason
(26:48):
why they should not have been here, because we don't
really have this in our country where it's a perfect
storm of men who are misogynists, who hate women, who
want to rape, torture and kill just because everybody else
thinks it's okay, and they're stirring each other up.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
You know, Lynnshaw with me, founder of Lynn's Warriors, committed
to ending mistreatment of children. Lynn, I'm just thinking about
the way they soak, callously throw her body, and that
buy you, we've.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Shown you and just walk away, probably laughing.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
And the image which police have given me because they're
spotted on video at a restaurant having a great time
and then they leave and like I was telling Doctor Bethany,
like going to dinner in a movie for the rest
of us, that's a big night out, and instead they
go for dinner and then they go get this little girl,
(27:44):
and they're stoking each other as they go. Very often
people will do things as a group that they wouldn't
do on their own. But these two are like minded.
And I've given this example before, Lynnshaw. If you're out
for a walk on a nature trailer in a park
and you see a little rabbit go by, I bet
(28:04):
your first instinct is to maybe pet it or feed it,
where other instincts would be to grab it and tear.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
It's neck out and eat it a predator.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
And when they saw this little girl, can you imagine
all the glances the two of them exchanged with each other.
They knew what they were going to do as they
walked to that bridge, as they forced her to go
under the bridge. At any point they could have stopped, Linn,
but they didn't. They went so far as to tie
her up, strip her under that bridge, I believe, rape her,
(28:43):
and then strangle her, most likely manually with their own hands,
and then to top it off, throw her into the
water like she's trash.
Speaker 9 (28:53):
Lind Nancy Doctor Bethany hit the nail on the head
the way she described the mindset. We work with law enforcement.
These criminal members of this gang from Venezuela, it's called
trendy Arragua. They have no regard for life at all.
I don't even want to compare them to animals. That
is too kind. I don't want to put that on animals.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
They will.
Speaker 9 (29:15):
They have no regard for girls and women in particular.
They take what they want. I don't even know if
they planned this. They just saw her. She's a slight
little girl. They may have asked her directions I read,
and she said, okay, I'll show you this way. They
lured her somehow, and they just had the opportunity. I
want to repeat, these people are not here legally. They
(29:38):
have we work extensively with law enforcement. They have no
regard for women and girls. They think that they are
just property. They're to be raped, robbed, beaten. And I'm
not understanding why all this is allowed allowed to go on.
We know all this, we know what is going on.
These are called also ghost criminals. They may come and
(30:00):
have an ankle monitor. They're cutting them off. Nobody's following
up and doing further vetting, and they're disappearing all our country.
And I guarantee you, I guarantee you. This is my opinion.
They have done this before. They have raped and robbed
women before, and perhaps even murdered.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Oh gosh, yes, Michael Vanna is joining us.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Former Houston Police homicide detective now PI owner of y
two investigations. Michael, this is not their first crime. And
I don't mean stealing a car or joy riding or
a theft by shoplifting or.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Smoking a joint.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
No, no, no, there's a big leap between any of
those crimes and kidnapping a little girl, forcing her under
that bridge, raping and murdering her. Oh no, no, no, no,
this is by far not their first violent crime.
Speaker 10 (30:51):
I answery. I don't think I think you're going to
find an investigation that they probably have a DNA link
to other crimes here in the Houston area or around
the country. Who knows, But let me tell you this Nancy,
I know USTI pleae achieve Saturday White personally. I know
the lead homicide investigator personally. These two men are bloodhounds,
and with their experience, they're not gonna let this case
(31:12):
go away. They're gonna even though they've been arrested in charge,
the investigation is just beginning. They have to go and
confirm and reconfirm every bit of information that they've followed
on that digital trail, on the eyewitnesses, on the medical
examiners report. They have to completely completely put a case
(31:35):
together to make sure these animals do not get out absolutely,
and they're gonna.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
Do that.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, thank you for joining us.
As I've told many a jury, many a jury, do
not turn away from the evidence. Does it leave a
bad taste in your mouth?
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yes? Will you have a bad dream? I do? I do.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
After learning about what happened to Jocelyn, all I could
think about is this happening to.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
My girl Lucy.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
But if we turn away from the evidence, we are
not prepared to fight what is happening. To fight back
against what happened to twelve year old Joscelyn.
Speaker 8 (32:31):
Listen, Investigators determine the two men lure her into going
under the bridge on West Rankin Road. Keeping Joscelyn for
over two hours, they take her pants off and tie
her up. Joscelyn dies from strangulation before she is thrown
into the bayou, where her body is found. After throwing
the body into the bayou, Ramos and Martinez are seen
walking back toward the apartment they share. Police believe the
(32:53):
pair live in the same apartment complex as Joscelyn Nungry.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Just strolling back. They're on video, just strolling back.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
It reminds me of the guy that murdered Rachel Morin.
According to the DNA found on her body, he attacked
a nine year old little girl in LA before he
murdered Rachel in bel Air, Maryland, based on DNA, and
he didn't even run from the scene. He's caught on
a door cam in LA. He just walks out without
(33:26):
a shirt on and just walks away, like.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Hey, you know that was nothing, no big deal.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I mean, doctor Bethany Marshall, I don't think you're getting
my question. The way they threw away the little girl
like she was a chewing gum wrapper. Just throw her
away after that, just throw her body, half stripped, tied up, strangled,
just throw her in the water, and now we know,
casually walk off. I'm telling you, this.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Was no more than then going to the movie and
having dinner. That was it.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
This was nothing to them, and they casually stroll back
to their apartment.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
They don't even run nothing.
Speaker 5 (34:07):
No, no, no. Several things about this story bothered me
so much. This little girl, Joscelyn, grew up with a
mother and in the society, in a neighborhood where she
was taught that the world is a safe place. Unlike Venezuela,
unlike Haiti, where the two missionary kids, David and Natalie
were just murdered by gang violence. There are certain societies, Nancy,
where homicide is socially sanctioned, where it's rampant, where people
(34:32):
do feel that this is what society has come to.
And when those societies infiltrate our society, our kids, who
believe that the world is a safe place, continue doing
what they normally do, not realizing that there are predators
around them. And then the other thing, that's strolling back
to their apartment, Nancy, they strangled her, and that means
(34:54):
that they were looking into the eyes and into the
face of a twelve year old little girl, watching her struggle,
taking delight, taking pleasure. I mean, if you really just
soak that in. Who does that to a twelve year
old who rapes a twelve year old who may not
even know about sex yet? I mean the intrusion into
(35:17):
this little girl of the most horrifying, unimaginable circumstances for
which she was completely unprepared and not even knowing what
to do. And Nancy, Yeah, they just toss her into
the river. It is beyond disregard for human life. It's sadism,
it's thrill, it's hatred, it's wanting to undermine the youth
(35:39):
and beauty of such a beautiful member of our society.
It's really horrible.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
When I first started prosecuting violent crimes, the judge would
instruct a jury if the evidence supported it.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
On flight as in dish of guilt.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Now and most jurisdictions, the judge doesn't instruct a jury.
That flight can be used as an indication of guilt,
but the prosecutor can still argue it. And in this case,
you want to tell me they didn't do it, because
when HPD Houston PD shows up at the apartment complex
(36:17):
where these two illegals live, and they get a bullhorn,
a loud speaker, and they order the men.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
To come out. What do they do?
Speaker 2 (36:26):
One of the guys tries to jump off a balcony
for a m but wisely, Houston PD and this detective
is really something else.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
It's Stephen Hope guy. They have the whole place surrounded.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
There you go jumping off a balcony to Crawley Bill
joining US investigative reporter kPr ST too. They're in Houston, really,
I mean, if a cop knocks on your door, do
you try to run out the back and jump off
about Absolutely not.
Speaker 7 (37:01):
And it was really interesting because we were out there
that morning. We didn't see that time of the rest
just afterwards when they were placed in handcuffs. But a
lot of the neighbors out there told me that they
didn't really interact with those men too much. They'd only
lived at that apartment complex for maybe a month two months.
(37:22):
I think the only time they really saw them out
was a barbecue that happened a couple weeks prior. But
they didn't have many details about, you know, what those
men were like or if they seemed suspicious at all
so definitely concerning if they're trying to run from police.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
They took away my first born. A mom pleads for
killers to be brought to justice after her twelve year
old daughters slaying.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Now we know the two men that have been arrested
in the rape and murder of a twelve year old
little Houston girl, Jocelyn secretly and nefariously came into our
country to.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Do nothing but rek have it.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
They were not here, according to the Statue of Liberty,
seeking a new life. They came here to continue a
life of violent crime. And it's not the first time.
Does the name Lacan Riley ring a bell? Because I'll
never forget the name.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Listen.
Speaker 8 (38:24):
In Athens, Georgia, nursing student lake and Riley is late
returning from a jog at the University of Georgia campus
and a roommate becomes concerned surging in the area she
would jog. Her body is found in a Coney Forest
park near Lake Herrick. Riley's body is found covered in
brush and she's been killed by blood, forced trauma, and asphyxiation.
A sketch of a possible person of interest leads investigators
(38:44):
to Jose Antonio Dibara Ibarra is from Venezuela, entered the
USA illegally with a fake wife, was sent to New York,
left his fake wife and ended up in Athens, Georgia
with his brother. Ibarra now facing murder charges in the
killing of Lakeln Riley, his fake And what about Elizabeth Medina.
When high school cheerleader Lizabeth Medina doesn't join her team
(39:06):
for the Christmas parade, her mother races home to see why.
In the bathroom, Jackala Medina finds her daughter in the bathtub, dead,
stabbed to death. Police tracks suspicious activity on Lizabeth's missing
cell phone, leading them to Rafael Govea Romero twenty three,
illegally in the United States of America from Mexico. Investigators
determine he's been stalking Lizabeth Medina and was on probation
(39:30):
at the time of her murder, and then.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
He stabs her dead and Mommy has to find her
daughter dead in the bathtub when she's supposed to be
in a Christmas parade.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
That's how she found out.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Mommy races for more to see her daughter in the parade,
not wanting to miss a thing, and the daughter's not there,
so she races home to find her daughter dead.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
When will it end? I can't control what Congress is doing.
Speaker 12 (40:00):
You know.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
That's like yelling out the window on Third Avenue. But
what I can do is ask for help in this
case to make sure these two are convicted. Seven one
three three zero eight three six one hundred repeat seven
one three three zero eight three six hundred. Help us
(40:24):
build this case. Guys, we need your help finding this
missing thirteen year old little girl as Stefani Rodriguez.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
She vanished from.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Her home in the middle of the night, Oka City,
Oklahoma as Stefani last June twelve. She's five two, one
hundred and twenty pounds. She's just thirteen years old. If
you have any info on this beautiful little girl, please
call Oklahoma City PD four zero five two ninety seven
(40:58):
one one two nine or Oklahoma CDPD at four zero
five two three one twenty one twenty one. I want
to thank all of our guests for being with us
tonight as our prayers go out to this little girl,
Jocelyn and her family, her mother and her little brother.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Killer suspects cuffed Jocelyn just twelve years old, lured from
a local seven to eleven, found strangled and unclothed, tied
up in a creek. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This
is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Bombshell in the last hours, two persons of interest detained
in a twelve year old girl's brutal strangling.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
What do we know? Take a listen to the chief.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
We're here to share some very horrible news. Someone has
taken one of our innocent children Promus today. A twelve
year old little girl found her this morning and we
believe somebody did this horrible thing to her, and we
are here to ask for your help.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
I'm like angry that they just six wood had been
It's a curve.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
She's so young, so you'd take my baby away? Now,
I get too, little brother. Nole's just say that we.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Can hold that emotional video of Joson's mother from our
friends Akhou.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
It all started when we heard this.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Listen to find out if anybody knows anything, anybody saw anything,
Anybody can share that information so we can figure out
what happened to her exactly and we can find whoever
did this and get them off the street. I've talked
to this child's mother, of course, she is devastated. Her
(01:45):
family is devastating. Her little girl is gone. So we
need your help.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
This little girl goes to bed.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
My mommy goes to bed, a twelve year old little girl, Jocelyn.
Then she sneaks out for what to go about a
block to the seven to eleven and call her little boyfriend.
That's it, just a phone call. She never came home.
(02:15):
This is what more we know.
Speaker 6 (02:17):
I'm going to talk to you about an incident that
happened around six am this morning. A citizen called nine
to one one regarding a body seen in the shallow
water of the Bayou your four hundred West Brancolin Road
in the Houston's Northfelt area. Houston's Homicide Division, along with
the assistants of the Houston Department's dive team in the
Harris County Medical Examiner's Office, we're able to recover that
(02:37):
body out of the shallow water there. Harris County's Medical
Examiner's Office is completing an official identification of the victim.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
That little twelve year old girl has been murdered and
we believe raped by who. According to police, two illegal
immigrants also known as non citizen migrants, one of them
allegedly cutting off his ankle monitor after the murder. That's right,
(03:10):
let that sink in. One of them cutting off his
criminal ankle monitor after the twelve year old little girl
is murdered. So at the time, this little girl is stripped,
tied up, kept under a bridge, being tortured for two hours,
(03:33):
lured away from that payphone by these two. There's no
other way to say it, animals, he's wearing an ankle monitor.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
He's already committed a crime.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
There she is, thinking she's on a real adventure, sneaking
to a payphone to call her little thirteen year old
boyfriend to say good night. In the background, the little
boyfriend hears adult voices to adult voices.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
There they are who walks.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Up to a little twelve year old girl, lures her
away only to rape and strangle her, strip her under
a bridge, and tie her up, and then throw her
half clothed body into a creek.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
These two, that's who, why are they even here?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Joining me in all star panel to make sense of
what we know right now?
Speaker 1 (04:28):
But have any of you had it with.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Violent crime, especially on children, much less by illegal immigrants
that are not supposed to be here anyway. Why why
are they here? Why are they lurking around unapprehended? And
now this little girl is dead again? Joining me in
All Star panel, but first to Coraley Peel, investigative reporter
(04:54):
kp RC two in Houston. Thank you for being with us. Cory,
start at the beginning, Go ahead.
Speaker 7 (05:01):
Thank you so much Nancy for having me. This tragic
story starts when Alexis Nungray tucked her twelve year old
daughter Alexis in bed Sunday night. Last Sunday. She was
expected to go to work with her mother the next morning,
so she said everything was normal, nothing seemed unusual. She
(05:22):
went to bed around ten o'clock that night, and the
next morning she realized that her daughter was missing. So
she gets in her car. She drives around the neighborhood
looking for her. She starts pinging her daughter's phone, and
when she pings her phone, it takes her to the
creek where she sees a crime scene and detectives.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Corly Peel, that is every appearance worst nightmare, because when
I can't find the twins, my children. I just go
look at life thirty sixty and I see where they are,
and they're where they're supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
And I'm just imagining this mom.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
And it was really early in the morning, and Jocelyn,
the twelve year old little girl, was going with mommy
to work that morning, and mommy told her that just
before they went to bed, go to bed, Go to bed.
You gotta get up early because you're going to work
with me, and Mommy goes to sleep.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
This is what we know. Listen.
Speaker 8 (06:16):
Joscelyn Nungary is a helpful, bright, funny girl. At twelve
years old. She helps her mother with her little brother
and at school, she's one of the most popular. On
Sunday night, Jocelyn's mother, Alexis Nungary, reminds her not to
stay up too late, as Jocelyn is going to work
with her in the morning. Alexis tells Jocelyn good night
at ten pm and turns in for the night herself.
(06:38):
A little after ten PM, when she is certain her
mother is asleep, Jocelyn sneaks out of the house and
goes to a local convenience store. It's around midnight when
she calls her thirteen year old boyfriend, who says he
hears Joscelyn talking to some adults before he hangs up
the phone.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Joining me.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Doctor Bethany Marshall Renow psychoanalyst, joining us from LA. You
can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany,
thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
You know, I've.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Actually heard people horrible, people attacking the little girl and
the mom. It was a couple of blocks away. For
what is she out dealing drugs? Is she out hoaring around?
Is she out joy riding, stealing a car, vandelizing, doing pot,
doing anything wrong? No, she goes to call and say
good night to the little boyfriend who's just thirteen, and
(07:25):
he's at home with his parents. That's it, And some
people have actually vilified it. You know, a lot of
people not me, because I was afraid that I wasn't
afraid of what my parents would do to me.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I was afraid they be disappointed in me.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
I never snuck out, but I can't say the same
for my brother and sister or anybody else I know
that didn't sneak out and do something and actually get
back in without getting caught. But I hate that, Bethany,
Will people do anything, come up with anything, fabricate anything
to blame a victim. I think I know why they
(08:02):
do it, because it isolates them from a crime like
that'll never happen to me and my child. But this
is a twelve year old little girl who was about
to get up at the crack of dawn to go
with mommy to work.
Speaker 5 (08:16):
Nancy. People are saying all kinds of horrible things, like
why did the mother go to bed before her daughter
went to bed, Why did the little girl sleep sneak
out of the window, why did she have a boyfriend?
To put this in context, Nancy, by the time children
are twelve years old, they are beginning a developmental trajectory
where they will start to distance themselves from their parents
(08:36):
sometimes and start to cling to their peers. They're preparing
to leave home when they're seventeen, eighteen, or nineteen. It's
how their brains are developing and growing. So that's why
you see them always wanting to play video games with
other people, or talk on the phone with their friends,
or look on social media. It's because their brains are
(08:57):
programmed to do that. All she wanted to do was
say good night to her little boyfriend. This is a
twelve year old child who was doing what twelve year
olds do, and she was from a normal family with
a normal mother who was going to have a sweet
day with her the next day, taking her daughter to
(09:18):
work with her.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, it's this little girl sneaks out of the house
to call the little boyfriend on her cell.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
She never makes it home.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Joining me an all star panel, Courly Peele joining us
kp RC two. Where was the mom working? Why was
little Joscelyn going with mom to work the next morning?
Speaker 7 (09:40):
Now, she didn't reveal that information as to exactly what
they were going to do the next day at work,
but she said they just came back from a vacation
in that weekend, so you know, she told.
Speaker 9 (09:51):
Her they were going to get up early.
Speaker 7 (09:53):
It was going to be a completely normal day for them, essentially,
you know, at summertime, she doesn't have school, so she
was just going to just tag along with her mom
who worked the next day. But it was just a heartbreaking,
you know, situation to hear from her mother. She was
just you saw those tears streaming down her face as
(10:13):
she just plead for help, just in disbelief as this
could happen to her twelve year old daughters.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
So again, like we mentioned parents' worst.
Speaker 7 (10:24):
Nightmare, no one thinks that their child's not going to
be there when they wake up in the morning.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Joining me, Lynn Shaw, a founder executive director of Lynn's Warriors,
committed to ending human trafficking and sexploitation, particularly of children. Lynn,
when I read this story, I could barely contain myself
just twelve years old. I'm remembering my children at age twelve,
(11:01):
completely innocent, completely innocent, and this little girl all on
board to go to work with mommy the next morning,
never complaining great grades. You saw her playing, I believe
a cello. I mean, there's just a perfect little girl.
And to end like this, this horrible death. When I
think of those two one with an ankle monitor on,
(11:26):
I mean a lot of times, Lynn, we don't allow
ourselves to think about the facts, the actual facts of
what happened. We hear, oh, okay, little girl found dead
in a creek under a bridge, and we stop right there.
We don't follow that through that chain of thought. But
(11:46):
these two animals lured this little girl away from the
seven to eleven where she was using her cell phone.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
They lure her to a bridge area.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I don't know when they started forcing her there or not,
but they're walking along with her like they're friends. They
get her down under the bridge, strip her, tie her up,
I believe, rape her, and then strangle her and throw
her body into this.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
By you, I mean like she's trash Lynn, Nancy.
Speaker 9 (12:25):
We work so hard with missing children, sex traffic children,
labor traffic children. This story came across to me very
early on, and I said to myself, I bet you
it's very nefarious. I bet you it has something to
do with our open borders. Let's call it what it is.
I saw this story of a twelve year old and
(12:46):
for me to get tears in my eyes, I'm pretty
hardened about all of this. I am tired of this, Nancy.
I am tired of everybody making light of what's going
on in America. We have on any given day twenty
three hundred children in the United States. There is more
to this story. I believe what the work we do
then we're hearing about. First of all, I heard that
(13:09):
she was with her boyfriend and went to a restaurant
to meet these two. I heard that then I heard
she was calling her boyfriend. Then I heard the Houston
mayor say she was raped. Then it was walked back.
Nobody else will say right now she was actually raped.
They said that is pending the sexual assault. Well, I
(13:29):
think when you are dumped in a creek with your
pants missing and there's all of this, somebody with an ankle,
I don't even call it an ankle bracelet. Why are
they here in the first place? Ankle bracelet eat People's illegal.
They do not belong here. Kids have been jumping out
their windows and doors for years, sneaking out of the house. Nancy,
(13:49):
Why did she go out of the house. Was there
something she aline that was happening? Was the boyfriend urging
her to meet him somewhere? We do not know, but
I want question and I leave you with this. We
have alarms now when somebody breaks in a home or
a business. I'm calling for alarms when kids, anybody is
breaking out. We live in a society now we have
(14:11):
to step up. This is the reality, dark and ugly.
If a child's trying to leave a home, an alarm
will go off on a window or door. This is
what we're faced with today.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
A twelve year old little girl is lured away by
two adult males that we now are two non citizen
migrants aka illegal aliens, one still wearing.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
An ankle monitor. Lured under a.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Bridge, She's found stripped, bound and dead, strangled, dead, and
thrown into the water. Joining me Michael Yvonnees, former Houston
Police homicide detective, now PI AT y two investigate gations. Michael,
(15:01):
thank you for being with us. You know Lenna's right.
No one will say they rate the little girl. Then
why were her pants off? Why was she stripped? Why
was she bound? Why are cops saying this much that
she was held under the bridge for two hours at least?
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Why? Why?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Why all those circumstances if she was not sex assaulted
and then murdered. Can you imagine this child begging to
go back home to mommy in the middle of the night,
begging for them to leave her alone, begging to live,
and they strangled her anyway? Can you imagine that that's
what happened, That is what happened to Michael.
Speaker 10 (15:44):
Of course, Nancy, all those signs are indicative of sexual assault,
and you and I and common sense people, we probably
know that the police are being cautious and what they
tell you and what they released to the public to
preserve their investigation. There, they're trying to preserve it for
court and they don't want to They don't want to
make any statement that might upset this case. Further down
(16:07):
the road, back.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
To special guest journing us Corley Peel, investigative reporter kp
R C two. Coray, what do we know about these
two guys? I want to talk about them.
Speaker 7 (16:16):
Yeah, well, we've learned that they are originally from Venezuela.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
They've been living in.
Speaker 7 (16:22):
Houston for about a month. That's according to neighbors who
live at the apartment complex where they were arrested. We
don't know a whole lot right now, but we do
know that they were.
Speaker 5 (16:35):
Stopped by Border patrol.
Speaker 7 (16:38):
Martinez was stomped I believe back in March near al Paso,
and the other man was stomped in May. So still
a lot to unpack here about their background, but we
do know that they were here in the US illegally.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
This is what more we are learning. Incredible police. I
don't know if you recall Jennifer Dulos, the missing Connecticut
mom of five. Her body has never been found but
due to a copious amount of blood in her garage,
it has been determined that her husband Photused Dulos and
his girlfriend, his mistress, Michel Tconis, had a hand in
(17:18):
her death.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
He murdered her.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
This mother of five goes missing, and what the local
police do, in conjunction with others is they put together
and I believe this is what's.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Being done right now.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
It's not already been done in the Brian Coburger quadruple
homicide case and Moscow.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
They put together.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
A montage okay, like a real a demo reel okay,
and they follow the perp or the victim through red
light cams through I remember in Jennifer Dulos there was
a public bus that opened its doors and you see
the husband photos Dulos driving by and somebody else car.
(18:00):
To get it detailed because Jennifer's DNA is all over it,
they use traffic cams, tag grabbers, anything, toll bridges, anything
with a camera, home security cam, and they put together
a timeline in video. And I believe that is what
(18:22):
the police very wisely did here.
Speaker 11 (18:25):
Listen, our team has worked tirelessly tracking evidence in this
case since the discovery of Joscelyn by a citizen on
the morning of June seventeenth, twenty twenty four. Because of
the assistance of the area community and surveillance video that
our officers have tirelessly tracked down and other evidence heary pieces,
we have found and learned that the suspects began their
(18:48):
evening at a Northborough area restaurant together. They left that
restaurant on foot southbound.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
And more of what we know about the two defendants
now charged with capital martyr of a twelve year old
little girl their movements.
Speaker 11 (19:05):
Listen, the suspects continued south and we're first seen on
a camera and those are the images that we released
to you to all of you into the public. Suspects
seen meeting the victim and talking for a few minutes
while they were on Kirkandal. Later, the suspects and the
victim walked together to a convenience store and those images
were also released to you guys in the public. After
(19:28):
a few minutes, all three together walked to a bridge
where ultimately Joscelyn was murdered. Suspects continue south towards their
residence after leaving Joscelyn there.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Oh, they're totally busted.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
They are following them through veryous surveillance videos. They'll probably
bring in cell phone pings, all sorts of digital proof
to show it's these two guys that took Joscelyn then
forced her down under a bridge, reminiscent of the two
little girls in Delphi forced under a trestle bridge.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Now, who sees this little girl at the seven eleven?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
All she's doing is thinking out to call her a
little boyfriend on her cell phone, So Mommy won't hear.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Who sees this girl and thinks, hey, I'm going to.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Rape her and murder her? Nobody except these two. I
was asking you earlier, what do we know about these guys.
We know that they are Jose Roguel Martinez and Franklin
Jose Pina Ramos, and they are both here illegally. Ramos
discovered crossing the border with a large group of migrants,
(20:37):
given a notice to appear in San Antonio court August
twenty nine. What he immediately disappears. We know Ibarra placed
on a program, a.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Ankle monitor program.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
He immediately cut off that monitor and disappeared. April twenty
twenty three. Yeah, that's who's here. Both of them just
disappear into the wind. We know a fifty three thousand
to have.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Disappeared under similar circumstances. Where are they? Maybe in your backyard?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Joining me now is a renowned chief medical examiner out
of Terrance County.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
That's Fort Worth.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Never lack a business there, Doctor Kendall Crowns, who has
performed thousands of autopsies, including on children. Lecturer at the
Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank
you for being with us. Explain to me how an
autopsy will be performed on this twelve year old little girl.
Speaker 12 (21:46):
What do you do so in a case of strangulation,
you would still follow the same procedure as of an
autopsy that you usually do. An external examination making note
of any march stars or tattoos evidence of injury, and an
internal examination is performed where a y shaped decision is
made and each organ is removed and dissected. But then
(22:07):
a layered neck dissection will be done where each layer
of the muscles of the neck are peeled back looking
for injuries, and then the throat structures will be exposed,
removed and evaluated. So looking at the highwaid bone which
is this U shaped bone in your neck that can
be broken in strangulation and the thyroid cartilage, which is
(22:27):
a structure right above your windpipe that also is often
broken in strangulation cases.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
How will you determine, doctor Kendall Crowns, whether or not
the little girl had been raped?
Speaker 12 (22:40):
So an evaluation of her genitalia will be done looking
at her vagina in anal orifices or the areas around it,
looking for contusions, abrasions, tears of bruises, that type of
injury you can usually find that in rape cases.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
You surveillance shows twelve year old just with two unknown
men at a convenience store in the dead of the night.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
And even now online trolls are attacking the mom and
the little girl. This twelve year old little girl was
doing nothing more than sneaking a cell phone call to
her little thirteen year old boyfriend at the nearby seven
to eleven, and she ends up dead, stripped, strangled, and
(23:26):
thrown into the water. Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renown
psycho analysts out of La Doctor Bethany, what does the
treatment of this little girl mean to you as it
relates to the minds of the two perpetrators.
Speaker 5 (23:40):
Well, for one, I think she had three factors that
they were looking for. Availability, vulnerability, and desirability. She's such
a cute little girl. She's vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
They can have their.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
Way with her. Nancy, and I think these guys wanted
to have power and control over a female. They were
full of rage, and Nancy the male done this before.
I mean, these two guys are acting in concert to terrorize,
rape and do whatever they want to do. Remember John
Lee Malvo obviously, John Alvin and John Allen Muhammad were
(24:13):
they They worked in concert to terrorize the DC area.
They were full of rage, they came from another country.
They wanted to come up against unsuspecting victims. I was
thinking about that with these two, especially since they have
a gang history, Like what were they really planning and
that area that they had moved into. Did they want
(24:35):
to pray on other unsuspecting victims or were they hatching
some plot? But definitely they chose this little girl because
she's tiny, she's vulnerable. They could have their way with her.
These monsters, they're not going to come up against peers
or somebody more powerful than them. Imagine what happens when
they have to come up against the police or now
(24:57):
they're being questioned or they have to answer or to investigators.
These guys are cowards, deep down, homicidal cowards who only
wanted their way with a little girl. It is so
terrible and tragic.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
You know another thing, Doctor Bethany Marshall, is these two
we now know thanks to local police and especially that
detective Steven Hope. You were hearing earlier that these two
went out and were spotted at a restaurant, and they're
caught on surveillance video at a restaurant having dinner.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
It's almost like they go out for dinner in a.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Movie and they use up the little girl and just
throw her away like that, throw a popcorn down at
the AMC.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
That's how she's treated, Nancy.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
These animals have no regard for life. And when I
heard about the restaurant, I was thinking, were they just
sitting ordering hamburgers and French fries and talking about who
they're going to murder? I would not be surprised if
they were stirring it up and actually stimulating each other,
because we know even with criminals who get out of jail,
sometimes they emerge more for us, traded and more ready
(26:01):
to offend because of their incarceration experiences, and these guys
have been roaming, you know, they go over the border
there and they interact with law enforcement. It's almost like
there's this hatred and vindictiveness building up inside of them,
this sense that the world is against them, that they
have to assert power somewhere. And remember, it's rumored that
(26:25):
they have a criminal background, a gain background, which tells
me that they've been in an environment where there's socially
sanctioned sociopathy, so that not only are they criminals, sadists,
rapists on their own, but they've been a part of
a society where men do this kind of thing, Nancy.
So this becomes a perfect storm, which is the reason
(26:48):
why they should not have been here, because we don't
really have this in our country where it's a perfect
storm of men who are misogynists, who hate women, who
want to rape, torture and kill just because everybody else
thinks it's okay, and they're stirring each other up.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
You know, Lynnshaw with me, founder of Lynn's Warriors, committed
to ending mistreatment of children. Lynn, I'm just thinking about
the way they soak, callously throw her body, and that
buy you, we've.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Shown you and just walk away, probably laughing.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
And the image which police have given me because they're
spotted on video at a restaurant having a great time
and then they leave and like I was telling Doctor Bethany,
like going to dinner in a movie for the rest
of us, that's a big night out, and instead they
go for dinner and then they go get this little girl,
(27:44):
and they're stoking each other as they go. Very often
people will do things as a group that they wouldn't
do on their own. But these two are like minded.
And I've given this example before, Lynnshaw. If you're out
for a walk on a nature trailer in a park
and you see a little rabbit go by, I bet
(28:04):
your first instinct is to maybe pet it or feed it,
where other instincts would be to grab it and tear.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
It's neck out and eat it a predator.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
And when they saw this little girl, can you imagine
all the glances the two of them exchanged with each other.
They knew what they were going to do as they
walked to that bridge, as they forced her to go
under the bridge. At any point they could have stopped, Linn,
but they didn't. They went so far as to tie
her up, strip her under that bridge, I believe, rape her,
(28:43):
and then strangle her, most likely manually with their own hands,
and then to top it off, throw her into the
water like she's trash.
Speaker 9 (28:53):
Lind Nancy Doctor Bethany hit the nail on the head
the way she described the mindset. We work with law enforcement.
These criminal members of this gang from Venezuela, it's called
trendy Arragua. They have no regard for life at all.
I don't even want to compare them to animals. That
is too kind. I don't want to put that on animals.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
They will.
Speaker 9 (29:15):
They have no regard for girls and women in particular.
They take what they want. I don't even know if
they planned this. They just saw her. She's a slight
little girl. They may have asked her directions I read,
and she said, okay, I'll show you this way. They
lured her somehow, and they just had the opportunity. I
want to repeat, these people are not here legally. They
(29:38):
have we work extensively with law enforcement. They have no
regard for women and girls. They think that they are
just property. They're to be raped, robbed, beaten. And I'm
not understanding why all this is allowed allowed to go on.
We know all this, we know what is going on.
These are called also ghost criminals. They may come and
(30:00):
have an ankle monitor. They're cutting them off. Nobody's following
up and doing further vetting, and they're disappearing all our country.
And I guarantee you, I guarantee you. This is my opinion.
They have done this before. They have raped and robbed
women before, and perhaps even murdered.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Oh gosh, yes, Michael Vanna is joining us.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Former Houston Police homicide detective now PI owner of y
two investigations. Michael, this is not their first crime. And
I don't mean stealing a car or joy riding or
a theft by shoplifting or.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Smoking a joint.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
No, no, no, there's a big leap between any of
those crimes and kidnapping a little girl, forcing her under
that bridge, raping and murdering her. Oh no, no, no, no,
this is by far not their first violent crime.
Speaker 10 (30:51):
I answery. I don't think I think you're going to
find an investigation that they probably have a DNA link
to other crimes here in the Houston area or around
the country. Who knows, But let me tell you this Nancy,
I know USTI pleae achieve Saturday White personally. I know
the lead homicide investigator personally. These two men are bloodhounds,
and with their experience, they're not gonna let this case
(31:12):
go away. They're gonna even though they've been arrested in charge,
the investigation is just beginning. They have to go and
confirm and reconfirm every bit of information that they've followed
on that digital trail, on the eyewitnesses, on the medical
examiners report. They have to completely completely put a case
(31:35):
together to make sure these animals do not get out absolutely,
and they're gonna.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
Do that.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, thank you for joining us.
As I've told many a jury, many a jury, do
not turn away from the evidence. Does it leave a
bad taste in your mouth?
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yes? Will you have a bad dream? I do? I do.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
After learning about what happened to Jocelyn, all I could
think about is this happening to.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
My girl Lucy.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
But if we turn away from the evidence, we are
not prepared to fight what is happening. To fight back
against what happened to twelve year old Joscelyn.
Speaker 8 (32:31):
Listen, Investigators determine the two men lure her into going
under the bridge on West Rankin Road. Keeping Joscelyn for
over two hours, they take her pants off and tie
her up. Joscelyn dies from strangulation before she is thrown
into the bayou, where her body is found. After throwing
the body into the bayou, Ramos and Martinez are seen
walking back toward the apartment they share. Police believe the
(32:53):
pair live in the same apartment complex as Joscelyn Nungry.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Just strolling back. They're on video, just strolling back.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
It reminds me of the guy that murdered Rachel Morin.
According to the DNA found on her body, he attacked
a nine year old little girl in LA before he
murdered Rachel in bel Air, Maryland, based on DNA, and
he didn't even run from the scene. He's caught on
a door cam in LA. He just walks out without
(33:26):
a shirt on and just walks away, like.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Hey, you know that was nothing, no big deal.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I mean, doctor Bethany Marshall, I don't think you're getting
my question. The way they threw away the little girl
like she was a chewing gum wrapper. Just throw her
away after that, just throw her body, half stripped, tied up, strangled,
just throw her in the water, and now we know,
casually walk off. I'm telling you, this.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Was no more than then going to the movie and
having dinner. That was it.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
This was nothing to them, and they casually stroll back
to their apartment.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
They don't even run nothing.
Speaker 5 (34:07):
No, no, no. Several things about this story bothered me
so much. This little girl, Joscelyn, grew up with a
mother and in the society, in a neighborhood where she
was taught that the world is a safe place. Unlike Venezuela,
unlike Haiti, where the two missionary kids, David and Natalie
were just murdered by gang violence. There are certain societies, Nancy,
where homicide is socially sanctioned, where it's rampant, where people
(34:32):
do feel that this is what society has come to.
And when those societies infiltrate our society, our kids, who
believe that the world is a safe place, continue doing
what they normally do, not realizing that there are predators
around them. And then the other thing, that's strolling back
to their apartment, Nancy, they strangled her, and that means
(34:54):
that they were looking into the eyes and into the
face of a twelve year old little girl, watching her struggle,
taking delight, taking pleasure. I mean, if you really just
soak that in. Who does that to a twelve year
old who rapes a twelve year old who may not
even know about sex yet? I mean the intrusion into
(35:17):
this little girl of the most horrifying, unimaginable circumstances for
which she was completely unprepared and not even knowing what
to do. And Nancy, Yeah, they just toss her into
the river. It is beyond disregard for human life. It's sadism,
it's thrill, it's hatred, it's wanting to undermine the youth
(35:39):
and beauty of such a beautiful member of our society.
It's really horrible.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
When I first started prosecuting violent crimes, the judge would
instruct a jury if the evidence supported it.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
On flight as in dish of guilt.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Now and most jurisdictions, the judge doesn't instruct a jury.
That flight can be used as an indication of guilt,
but the prosecutor can still argue it. And in this case,
you want to tell me they didn't do it, because
when HPD Houston PD shows up at the apartment complex
(36:17):
where these two illegals live, and they get a bullhorn,
a loud speaker, and they order the men.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
To come out. What do they do?
Speaker 2 (36:26):
One of the guys tries to jump off a balcony
for a m but wisely, Houston PD and this detective
is really something else.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
It's Stephen Hope guy. They have the whole place surrounded.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
There you go jumping off a balcony to Crawley Bill
joining US investigative reporter kPr ST too. They're in Houston, really,
I mean, if a cop knocks on your door, do
you try to run out the back and jump off
about Absolutely not.
Speaker 7 (37:01):
And it was really interesting because we were out there
that morning. We didn't see that time of the rest
just afterwards when they were placed in handcuffs. But a
lot of the neighbors out there told me that they
didn't really interact with those men too much. They'd only
lived at that apartment complex for maybe a month two months.
(37:22):
I think the only time they really saw them out
was a barbecue that happened a couple weeks prior. But
they didn't have many details about, you know, what those
men were like or if they seemed suspicious at all
so definitely concerning if they're trying to run from police.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
They took away my first born. A mom pleads for
killers to be brought to justice after her twelve year
old daughters slaying.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Now we know the two men that have been arrested
in the rape and murder of a twelve year old
little Houston girl, Jocelyn secretly and nefariously came into our
country to.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Do nothing but rek have it.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
They were not here, according to the Statue of Liberty,
seeking a new life. They came here to continue a
life of violent crime. And it's not the first time.
Does the name Lacan Riley ring a bell? Because I'll
never forget the name.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Listen.
Speaker 8 (38:24):
In Athens, Georgia, nursing student lake and Riley is late
returning from a jog at the University of Georgia campus
and a roommate becomes concerned surging in the area she
would jog. Her body is found in a Coney Forest
park near Lake Herrick. Riley's body is found covered in
brush and she's been killed by blood, forced trauma, and asphyxiation.
A sketch of a possible person of interest leads investigators
(38:44):
to Jose Antonio Dibara Ibarra is from Venezuela, entered the
USA illegally with a fake wife, was sent to New York,
left his fake wife and ended up in Athens, Georgia
with his brother. Ibarra now facing murder charges in the
killing of Lakeln Riley, his fake And what about Elizabeth Medina.
When high school cheerleader Lizabeth Medina doesn't join her team
(39:06):
for the Christmas parade, her mother races home to see why.
In the bathroom, Jackala Medina finds her daughter in the bathtub, dead,
stabbed to death. Police tracks suspicious activity on Lizabeth's missing
cell phone, leading them to Rafael Govea Romero twenty three,
illegally in the United States of America from Mexico. Investigators
determine he's been stalking Lizabeth Medina and was on probation
(39:30):
at the time of her murder, and then.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
He stabs her dead and Mommy has to find her
daughter dead in the bathtub when she's supposed to be
in a Christmas parade.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
That's how she found out.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Mommy races for more to see her daughter in the parade,
not wanting to miss a thing, and the daughter's not there,
so she races home to find her daughter dead.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
When will it end? I can't control what Congress is doing.
Speaker 12 (40:00):
You know.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
That's like yelling out the window on Third Avenue. But
what I can do is ask for help in this
case to make sure these two are convicted. Seven one
three three zero eight three six one hundred repeat seven
one three three zero eight three six hundred. Help us
(40:24):
build this case. Guys, we need your help finding this
missing thirteen year old little girl as Stefani Rodriguez.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
She vanished from.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Her home in the middle of the night, Oka City,
Oklahoma as Stefani last June twelve. She's five two, one
hundred and twenty pounds. She's just thirteen years old. If
you have any info on this beautiful little girl, please
call Oklahoma City PD four zero five two ninety seven
(40:58):
one one two nine or Oklahoma CDPD at four zero
five two three one twenty one twenty one. I want
to thank all of our guests for being with us
tonight as our prayers go out to this little girl,
Jocelyn and her family, her mother and her little brother.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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