November 18, 2025 • 57 mins
Steve and Kristi Goncalves join Nancy Grace to share their heartfelt feelings of the recent controversial "Lifetime" movie depicting the brutal murders of their daughter Kaylee, along with three other Idaho college friends. They also touch on their journey of grief and the justice system.
On the third anniversary of the Moscow Murders, Judge Hippler rules Kohberger has to pay additional restitution to the families of Kaylee and Maddie of about $3,000, the cost of the urns now holding the remains of the best friends. Kohberger argued he didn't have the money to pay the restitution because he is in prison for the rest of his life. The judge tosses that notion stating Kohberger received nearly $30,000 in county jails while awaiting trial, most of it coming from his family.
Hippler also points out Kohberger is a young man who can earn money through prison employment. Kohberger will "receive sufficient amounts over his life to at least come close to meeting his financial restitution obligations. The compensation ruling for the Goncalves and Mogen families is in addition to the nearly $300,000 Kohberger is already ordered to pay the families.
However, in a shocking announcement from the bench, Hippler says Kohberger can legally make money from selling his story, saying the Idaho law "leaves open the potential for Defendant to receive money from media contracts in the future" and such earnings will not be accessible to victims for restitution payments.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Kristi Goncalves-Mother of victim Kaylee Goncalves
- Steve Goncalves -Father of victim Kaylee Goncalves
- Josh Kolsrud - Criminal Defense Attorney and Former Assistant U.S. Attorney, Founder of Kolsrud Law Offices, kolsrudlawoffices.com, Facebook and YouTube @KolsrudLawOffices
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker: When to work on a relationship and when to walk away” Also featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock, www.drbethanymarshall.com , Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive
- Chris McDonough -Director at the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective, worked over 300 Homicides in 25-year career, Trained the first Native American Homicide Task Force; & Host of YouTube channel, "The Interview Room”, www.coldcasefoundation.org/chris-mcdonough
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", Instagram @JoScottForensic
- Annie Elise - Host of the true crime podcast "SERIALously," website: annieelise.com
- Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter, ‘Crime Stories’
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Brian Coberger is contesting his plea deal, renegging on some
of the orders in exchange for life over the death penalty.
Can the case now go to trial amidst a lifetime
Idaho four movie outrage, Good evening, a Nancy Grace, this
(00:26):
is Crime Stories.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Brian Coburger admitted pled guilty to four murders.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
They were worse than murders.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
They were slaughters of four innocent college students University of Idaho.
Straight out to Annie Eli's host of Seriously, Annie Coburger
is welching on a major tenet of his plea deal.
Under the law, I mean, Annie, that would be like
(00:56):
me sentencing you to twenty years on armed robbery and
and you have to elocute in court exactly what happened.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
We do the deal, and then you refuse to eloquet. Okay,
deals off.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
What is he contesting paying for funeral expenses?
Speaker 4 (01:14):
It seems to me like it's all about back to control.
He doesn't seem to like any of the inconveniences that
are happening now that he's behind bars, whether it's what
he overhears the prisoner, saying about him the money that's
pouring in and having to possibly use that toward restitution.
I think the reality is now setting in for him
and there's starting to be some back pedaling happening.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It's my understanding to Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter
that Coburger is bulking at paying for the victims earns
and other expenses.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
Right exactly, Nancy. The shocking part of it is that
in that plea deal, all of this was already negotiated.
All of this was part of it so that he
could avoid going to try and avoid the needle or
the gun. And yet now they're going back in and saying, well,
we need to send this to the mathematicians that accounting
(02:10):
at the state to determine whether or not he's able
to pay for it, because he's in prison for the
rest of his life, and that actually is something that
he's not allowed to do. This plea bargain said he
could not go back later and appeal it, he couldn't
contest any aspect of it, and in so doing, Nancy,
(02:30):
I wonder why have they not already said, boom over,
you're going to trial.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Well, the judge seems to agree with you, Dave Matt
Listen to hip Hoar.
Speaker 6 (02:38):
So you took advantage of the plea agreement to get
the benefit of the bargain regarding the state's dropping of
the death penalty. Why should you not be held to
the plea agreement to pay the victims the costs of
in turning their children?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I mean, for Pete's sake, does Judge Hippler have to
feed the prosecution with a silver spoon? Here's your way
out of this disastrous plea deal, out of all of
your lies and your secret deals. Coburger is contesting restitution
that was part of the deal. So deal is off.
(03:22):
I mean, can the judge make it any more clear?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Listen to Hippler.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
What's the point of the plea agreement on restitution if
the defense is able to argue against the restitution called
for in the plea agreement itself.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And it's not an issue? Is it to any last
joining us from seriously, Annie, he's got at least a
five figure amount of money in his commissary account.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
It's unbelievable. First and foremost, the fact that people are
sending an admitted quadruple murderer tens of thousands of dollars
then for him to be contesting payment the restitution that
is outlined And I'm sorry, but three thousand dollars for
the earns is that the going rate these days for
a life. It's just if he's afforded these comforts of ramen,
(04:12):
toilet trees, different treats with his commissary, why should he
get more comforts than the victims were ever afforded.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Brian Coburger has just been ordered by the judge to
fork over thirty grand from his slush fund. Fine, I'm
glad you did that, Judge, to pay the victims' families.
But the fact that Coburger has contested the deal stop
everything deals off joining me is a veteran trial lawyer
(04:43):
who will tell you the truth.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
We may not like it, but the truth. Josh colesrud
is with us.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
He is a veteran criminal defense attorney, former US attorney,
founder of Colesrood Law Offices. Josh, I know that now
in this incarnation of yourself you are a defense attorney.
But isn't it true that when a defendant, when a
(05:08):
defendant backs out of one of the tenants of the
plea deal, the deal is off.
Speaker 7 (05:17):
Yes, So a plea agreement is a contract and it
has specific terms that need to be followed, and if
those terms are breached, then the plea agreement can be
undone and this case can be set for trial. One
of the ways that that could happen is a material
breach and not paying restitution.
Speaker 8 (05:40):
So what does that.
Speaker 7 (05:41):
Mean, Well, Brian Koberger agreed to have a fair dealing
with his finances, his money where it was going, and
to pay restitution. Now the state is saying that it
was their screw up that they didn't include the terms
in the plea agreement, But that's nonsense.
Speaker 8 (06:01):
I'll tell you why.
Speaker 7 (06:02):
Because the defendant, Brian Koberger, was levied a two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars fine, and that fine, the money
from that can can garnish his wages and that money
can be transferred into the victim compensation fund. So they
should be able to still go after the money. And
so what the prosecution is doing here, they're just being lazy.
(06:23):
They're not confident in what they're saying. The judge is
actually having to tell them and give them a roadmap
out of this, because honestly, they're incompetent. I have no
idea why they decided to actually plead this case out
when if there was ever a death penal deal, that's
a whole.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Nother can of worms coals rude you and me both.
Coburger argued last week he was refusing and unable to
pay twenty seven thousand dollars restitution to the families, the
families of students he butchered dead. The judge threw out
his complaint, his complaint of poverty, no voting that he
(07:01):
has gotten hundreds of dollars from supporters, totally nearly thirty
thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Now he's being ordered to pay restitution. That's will and good.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
My point is he contested the deal. He hasn't paid it.
He's saying he doesn't want to pay it, that he's
unable to pay it, which is a lie because I
know about his five figures of money. He's got his
commissary account. To me, that's welching on a deal. Joe
(07:34):
Scott Morgan is joining me, Professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University.
He's the author of Blood Beneath My Feet. He's the
star of a hit podcast which is incredible Body bags
with Joe Scott Morgan, on and on. But for our purposes,
he is a veteran death investigator, thousands of death scene investigations,
(07:55):
every cod every mod cause of death, matter of death.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
You can imagine why why.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Should this have never been a sweet plea deal? Let's
just start with that. Why is this so inflammatory that
this was even allowed to be a plea? And he's
ordered to pay the family's restitution after butchering their children,
and now he's backing out of it. You know what, fine,
(08:22):
I'd be mad if you didn't. Let's go to trial.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Why is this so wrong?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Joe Scott.
Speaker 9 (08:30):
In South we have a term that says, let the
hide come with a hair. My granddaddy used to say
that all the time. If he feels froggy, let's jump,
let's go to trial. Because now we have buckets and
buckets of evidence that have been revealed. Now, I got
to tell you, Nancy, give me a little rope here.
I know I'm not an attorney, I understand that, but
he's kind of got a point of leverage here. They
just released a tranche of twenty four hundred documents of
(08:53):
forensic evidence. Now, so if this thing did go to trial.
Everything has been reveal and you know, if you think
about from the perspective of taining the jury pool, perhaps
they've seen all of this stuff. We've got images that
are floating around out there.
Speaker 8 (09:10):
Nancy.
Speaker 9 (09:11):
They have flown and I'll say this directly to the prosecutor,
they have flown this case into the side.
Speaker 8 (09:17):
Of the mountain from Jump Street. All right.
Speaker 9 (09:20):
They got nobody to blame but themselves. I was an
advocate from the beginning to say that he, like you
had mentioned a second ago, he should have allocuted in
court to everything that he did instead of sitting there,
Instead of sitting there and not saying a damn word
other than yes, I did it.
Speaker 8 (09:38):
You know, even BTK was compelled. Nancy. There are people
sitting on death rod.
Speaker 9 (09:42):
Right now in Idaho that have done far less butchery
than he does. He's killed four people, slaughtered them, and
now he's complaining about having to pay the family money.
This is a gigantic mess.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Just got Morgan.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
The nature of the murders was more akin to a
butchering a slaughtering. When I look at specifically, well, they're
all horrible. Ethan had his jugular vein slashed, which means
there was arterial bleeding, which means that coming from his neck.
(10:20):
Ethan's neck, it was like a water sprinkler in the
front yard, spurting his life's blood until.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
He was dead.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
The disfiguration of Kie Gonsalvius, for her face was stabbed
between twenty and thirty times.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Could not even identify her. He stabbed her teeth out of.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Her mouth and more. The other two Maddie and Xana
horribly horribly disfigured. Why is it that it is so
insulting it now he says he can't pay restitution. That
was part of the deal.
Speaker 9 (11:06):
When you think about just Kaylee alone, Nancy, not only
was she stabbed, she had blunt force trauma to her face.
I actually believed that he took that k bar knife
and flipped it on the end of its handle. That
was driven into her multiple times too. You've got these
crushing injuries to her face. She's got severe maxial facial
facial damage. And then you know, you take this robust
(11:27):
knife blade and you drive it into her, and not
just her, but these other victims as well. You've got
Maddie laying there and she's been butchered as well. Nancy
this would have been a bloodbath contained to that, contained
to that bud, blood to the bed where they were killed.
And we've also got bloody deposition that's laying all over
the floor that appears to me, Nancy, that he was
(11:50):
standing there and probably gazing at the bodies as blood
is dripping and following away free form and striking the
ground directly below his feet. See this blood throughout the house.
The deposition that goes to this point that all of
this information now has been revealed, So you know, where
does the family turn at this point? In tom all
they're asking for is to show respect to their loved
(12:15):
ones that have been killed. Nancy, he must pay.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I don't understand what is wrong with the prosecutor. That's
been asked many many times. The judge is basically spoon
feeding him with a silver spoon away out of his
disastrous plea deal.
Speaker 10 (12:30):
Listen to Hipler, isn't a reasonable interpretation of the plea
agreement that the defendant will not contest the states seeking
of restitution that is outlined in the plea Agreementwise, otherwise
why would it need to be in the plea agreement?
(12:52):
It seems to me it's the plea agreement. A reasonable
interpretation is the defendant is agreeing to pay restitution for
those items that are identified in the plea agreement, which includes.
Speaker 6 (13:04):
Victims compensation apartment, which includes in this case, funeral expenses.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Joining us tonight to special guests, the parents of Killi Gonsolvas,
Christy and Steve Christian and Steve, thank you for being
with us first listen to this.
Speaker 6 (13:23):
So you took advantage of the plea agreement to get
the benefit of the bargain regarding the state's dropping of
the death penalty. Why should you not be held to
the plea agreement to pay the victims the costs of
in turning their children?
Speaker 7 (13:43):
Judge, I believe that our fleeting was clear, that we
understood that burns fell underneath of funeral.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Costs, but that once we have a hearing on this matter.
Speaker 11 (13:52):
That doesn't eliminate the court's duty under nineteen fifty three
oh four to do the ability to pay analysis.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
And that's why, well, are you in violation of the
plea agreement by arguing that your claient shouldn't have to.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Pay those and more from the judge.
Speaker 6 (14:09):
What's the point of the plea agreement on restitution if
the defense is able to argue against the restitution called
for in the plea agreement itself.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
At this hour, Coburger has been contesting paying funeral expenses
on the four students he murdered. That's bad enough, but
here's the question. If he's renigging on the deal, then
the deal is off and this case can go to
(14:41):
trial if the prosecutor has the backbone to do.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
It, which I doubt.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Straight out to Christy and Steve Gonsalvez joining us, Christy,
you got a shocking letter from the prosecut Christy, could
you explain what the letter says?
Speaker 11 (15:04):
Well, basically, it says that the travel expense part of
the restitution cannot be paid via the defendant's restitution, so
we can civilly sue him for it, which is just
you know, we're exhausted, you know, and now something is
(15:28):
just hard.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Christy?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Can I paraphrase what you just said? You can sue Coburger.
That's what the prosecution is offering.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
The mother of a murdered girl.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I'm not gonna handle it, but you know what, you
can go hire a lawyer, Christy, and you can pay.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
The lawyer to sue Brian Coburger. Let's take a look
at this letter.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
It says, and it says, dear gentlemen, he can't even
write your name. Attached is a copy of the court's
order on state's requests for restitution copies of restitution orders.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
For your client's funeral related expenses.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
It tells you to look at footnote one at the
bottom of page one. We were not able to pursue
travel expenses. We were not able to pursue Steve Gonzalez.
What does that mean when the prosecutor writes you basically
a form letter referring to you and your wife and
(16:33):
others as dear gentlemen.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
When I get something like that, I assume it's a
bill collector.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
The state, in other words, him was not able to
pursue your travel expenses where you had to leave your
job and your home and drive seven hours and hold
up in a hotel to be in court.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
They were quote not.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Able to pursue that from you. Coburger has five figures
sitting in his commissary account. He will make a movie deal,
it's allowed under the.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Law in Idaho.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
He will write a book. But they did not pursue
those expenses for you.
Speaker 12 (17:14):
Steve now Right off the get go, we said that
this deal, the plea deal, could be done, but it
has to be done correctly, and I didn't think he
had the skill level to do it correctly. That's why
we pretty much demanded that the attorney's generals get involved.
Speaker 13 (17:31):
And you know, that was the best option we could have.
But yeah, he.
Speaker 12 (17:37):
Doesn't know what he's doing. I mean, he's over his head.
He's a boomer that's literally was trying to retire before
this case even happened, and he's mentally retired. So we're
the ones losing thousands of dollars, tens of thousands of
dollars to his mistakes. And it's embarrassing for the state
of Idaho. And I mean, we did everything for that
(17:57):
courtroom so that they could get the resource and they
can get the attention, and we just couldn't.
Speaker 13 (18:03):
Get him out of that room.
Speaker 12 (18:04):
And that's really, that really is what's hurting this case
is we have Thompson in there just dropping the ball
repeatedly over and over and literally omitting it like I
totally screwed up, not apologizing but just saying I screwed up.
I mean, because it's clearly obvious. The whole world's watching.
He can't get himself out of it. But we've been
bringing attention to this from the very beginning that there
(18:27):
was I mean, we talked about his office leaking information
because we knew where the information was coming from, but.
Speaker 13 (18:34):
Nobody ever investigated it.
Speaker 12 (18:35):
Nobody even came to our family and said, how did
you guys know that they were leaking information?
Speaker 13 (18:41):
Even nobody's interviewed us to this day.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Can I ask you how you know it was the
prosecutor's office that was leaking the info. Remember there was
going to be a big investigation and then it just disappeared.
Speaker 12 (18:55):
There's a couple different ways, and I can't I won't
get into it on an open microphone like this, But
if you go and look how Anne knew to subpoena
my lawyer and our family and what we were discussing. Basically,
if you reverse that back, you're going to figure out
that somebody in that room told Anne that we were
(19:17):
talking about one of the witnesses and we knew information
about her. So she knew to subpoena our lawyer and
the conversations that we were having with just his office.
So how does Anne know how does she even know
that she should be requesting the communication from our personal
lawyer to them what.
Speaker 11 (19:38):
Christy emails she was requesting all emails from from our attorney,
Shannon Gray, our family regarding this witness.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
And it was like, okay, and the only tom you
discussed that was with reps from the DA's office.
Speaker 13 (19:57):
Exactly.
Speaker 12 (19:58):
Those are the only people we communicated with officially, and
we didn't talk to anyone else about what we had
heard it. We had just heard it within probably forty
eight hours, and forget about it.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
He says, and I'm quoting as we previously submitted response
to the court. We believe the crime actant's compensation would
be able to reimburse travel and accommodation expenses after the fact.
Then we learned that wasn't correct, So they entered into
a deal before they even knew whether you could get
(20:30):
reimbursed for all that.
Speaker 12 (20:32):
That's what it sounds like to me on a Sunday
after like talking to us on Friday. I mean, these
guys didn't do much work at all, but now they're
working on their Sundays to basically throw the case away.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
From crime Stories with Nancy Grace. But the last sentence
in this letter makes me just want to chew and
nail in half quote. At this point, it appears there
are no remaining outstanding legal issues in the criminal case
(21:08):
other than ongoing.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Review of previously sealed documents for.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Possible public release. Sincerely, William W. Thompson, Jr. No remaining issues.
Speaker 11 (21:21):
I thought that was very weird.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Now I condolences, no sympathy, no empathy, no anything.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
I mean, this is.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Basically a form letter covering his rear end.
Speaker 11 (21:37):
I was very surprised to see how it When I
read that last sentence too, I was like, Wow, that's.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
How we're going to end it.
Speaker 11 (21:43):
No further problems. If you guys want to get a
civil lawyer, you could sue them on your own separately.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
But I'm very curious, why do you believe what could
the possible motivate should be. I have a theory that
someone in the prosecution's office that you were speaking with,
and I can only assume that you went straight to
the top discussing issues with a trial witness, and then
(22:14):
within hours the defense attorney suddenly wants to subpoena your
lawyer's documents about conversations regarding that witness. All I can
think of is that the prosecution Thompson wanted to further
along a plea deal by releasing potentially damning evidence on
(22:39):
a witness.
Speaker 11 (22:41):
That's what we thought.
Speaker 13 (22:43):
Yeah, yeah, if you connect the dots, you could see
that because the information.
Speaker 12 (22:49):
That we had for them was daming, was damning to
be case. So certain things people want to leak to
scare people, to intimidate them, to let them think that
there's more going on than what is, or or just
letting them know that you've got you've got some information
that they're not completely pavy privy to. So obviously something
(23:13):
was going on because she knew to ask for our communications,
and it just makes no sense how she would know that.
This whole case has just been so hard to deal with.
I mean, and we always all we did was a
demand that whoever was in that courtroom that they they
just did their best job every single day. And I
remember telling Thompson because I was warned that he wasn't
(23:34):
the man who could get this job done. So I
just said, hey, if you're not, if you're checked out,
if you want to retire, I get it. I respect
you. You worked your whole life, you're seventy some years old.
You don't want it, step away, step away somebody.
Speaker 13 (23:49):
We'll go get someone. But he wanted to fame, but
he didn't want the work.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Christy and Steve.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
The fact that Coburger is contesting issues within the plea deal,
that's not the banner the important part of this. We
know he's contesting paying restitution. Could that and rescind renig.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
The plea deal?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Because if he is backing out of conditions of the
plea deal, then the deal is off. Have you considered
this could take the case to trial if Coburger himself
is refusing to pay restitution as ordered in the plea deal.
Speaker 11 (24:36):
Well, when you bring it up to our attention like that,
you know, with with your knowledge of how a court is,
how courtrooms run, and what has happened, I would love
for that to happen. But I feel like it's all
just games and none of it is taken serious. Like, oh,
he doesn't want to pay his restitution. Slap slap, slap,
(24:57):
You can't do that. Pay your restitution? Move gone not.
You know, you did a huge thing. You violated the
plea deal. There's no you know, second chances. We're going
to trial.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Just all game.
Speaker 11 (25:09):
It's just all the defense game. I mean, it just
games all the way around. I just feel like it's
just never ending. And now we're left with well, you
could civily sue, and that's just so frustrating. It's like,
you know what, we're out, you know, a lot of
money with everything. The last thing we want to do
is sue and just be drugging.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Did more and more court.
Speaker 11 (25:28):
You know, we were just hoping that they could handle it,
the state could handle it on our behalf. So it
would be nice to say you violated the plea deal.
So we're going to trial.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Well, this is what bills Dante Steve. Let's look at this.
So I take a play deal.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Twenty to serve, all right, and the definite thing goes, yeah,
I'm not.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Going to do that.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
I'm not I'm not going to do twenty. Well, then
the deal is off. Pay your restitution. It's an important
part of that deal. And if Coburger contests it, fine,
I'd be mad if he didn't. Now let's go to trial.
That is possible. He's nigging on the deal. That's on him.
(26:12):
So what you'd have to do, what we would have
to do is get Thompson off this case.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
He can't try this case.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Someone else, an independent prosecutor, would have to try it,
which would be great.
Speaker 12 (26:26):
I would love to see that. I would see that,
and for that lector, that letter. He doesn't respect the
investigation that Hitler's doing. He didn't say that that was
still going on. He said, we're done, we're over. He
has no fear of Hitpler's investigation because he holds all
the cards, he has all the power. So really I
would love for an independent person to come in and
(26:47):
look at it. And we're talking about this guy has
been trying to control the narrative, you know, pKa from
the very beginning, the Minuy he even got in prison,
he started writing up complaints and started doing formalities and saying,
you're gonna transferm me, You're gonna do this, You're gonna
do that. We got to just put our foot down
to these kind of psychopath killers and stop entertaining them
and stop treating them with baby gloves.
Speaker 13 (27:08):
It's just it's just disgusting.
Speaker 12 (27:10):
And and and we're doing it all the way up
three years later, we're still entertaining and.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Still question have either you or Christy reached out to
the FEDS to take this case.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
To them.
Speaker 12 (27:28):
I have talked to this that it's been a while
since I have, but they're the ones that told me
Thompson wasn't even ready for this.
Speaker 13 (27:34):
I don't go with this guy. This, this is not
gonna it's not get in well.
Speaker 12 (27:37):
But they also at the same time told me we're
not going to give you the death penalty either.
Speaker 13 (27:41):
So I tried to pick the lesser of.
Speaker 12 (27:43):
The two to two evils, and I was saying, well,
at least I get the death penalty in Idaho. And
I had a lot of belief in the Idaho system.
I was just let down by a prosecutor who just
was already retired and I didn't know it.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Steve and Christy Gomsolve was joining us to on top
of these revelations in this cold blooded form letter from
the prosecutor to them saying, yeah, you're not going to
ever get your money back.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
That's insult to injury.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
The money. Yeah, they're out a lot of money, thousands
of dollars. They're out their daughter, they are out their daughter.
Their daughter was horribly murdered, and we didn't know the
truth about what happened to Kiahy until after the secret
Plea deal goes down and now they're getting another gut
(28:34):
punch from a maid for TV movie and this is
what their daughter, Olivia.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Has to say.
Speaker 14 (28:40):
Hi, so that's not iconic. You're young, so maybe you
don't know. But I've looked at the past that you've done,
and I think you know. There is such a thing
as defamation, which can be crushing to a career. Not
that you really have one, but if you'd like one,
(29:04):
maybe you should just think about it. Maybe you should
just think about if Kaylee was your sister. Maybe you
should just think about what you put out into the world,
like dancing around in between scenes. Maybe you should think
about the projects that you take on. Maybe you should
think that if you lay with dogs, you might get fleets.
(29:30):
So yeah, maybe you should just think you look like
you might be capable of it.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
That's why I'm at Olivia Goon's office on TikTok, and
ever since she first opened her mouth, I knew that
she's a champion.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
What is she talking about?
Speaker 11 (29:50):
Christy Well, one of the actresses, I think it was
the one portraying Kaylee had to TikTok and they were
her and Matt her and Maddie were dressed up, they
were bleeding, and they were dancing with the defendant and
the three of them were dancing and laughing and hoot
(30:11):
and hollering and whatnot and carrying on. And she posted
it on TikTok something about you know, loving your job
or something, and it was like they were just appalled.
We were like, Okay, have fun with your coworkers after work,
but I mean, do you have to, you know, be
dancing around.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
And you were seeing this from Haley Hanson on TikTok. Christy,
when you discovered that this was going on, how did
that make you feel? Because even this many years later
after my fiance was murdered, when people write about it
(30:50):
and make negative comments about it, it never goes away
the pain from that much less someone dancing around on
TikTok talk in the middle of portraying Kiley.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
It's very hard. It makes you sick.
Speaker 11 (31:07):
It makes you literally sick to your stomach. And there
there were others where she is dressed up, you know,
with a lot of blood on her and stuff and
and smiling and saying you know, oh, I'm all you know,
ready for my, my, my scene. It's just it's disgusting
and it hurts and it makes you just it makes
(31:29):
you ill that that somebody would actually take a role
to portray somebody that died in such a horrific way
and take make light of it, make light of it
and and have it to have fun doing it, you know,
like not even somber or like, gosh, this is really hard.
But no, you know, let's have a dance party after
(31:50):
and let's make tiktoks in between scenes.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
It's hard.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Stayle solvice.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
I know that you guys have much bigger issues than
some actress Haley Hanson dancing around in fake blood during
an outtake of during a break from the movie. You
have a lot more on your plate than that. But
(32:19):
how did that strike you? Because I can see how
upset Olivia is about it.
Speaker 12 (32:26):
I look at the bigger picture and it feels like
every time I turn on the TV, I see some
like shooting, killing, mass murder, and I think to myself,
we have.
Speaker 13 (32:37):
Multiple problems, but one of them.
Speaker 12 (32:39):
Is kids who think they can do TikTok dances after
you know, as being part of this messaging, is part
of this narrative, is part of this corrective measure. If
you want to say that's what they're trying to do,
because I want to refuse to think that it's entertainment.
But clearly that organization doesn't understand what they're trying to represent,
and they don't have a clear message, and they're not
(33:01):
trying to help society get better and figure out. You know,
when these people put out these red flags, that we
do something about it. Part of that could be a
documentation or a document on it and say, you know,
these are the red flags, and if you see these
things in your community, you know, put your foot down
and make sure that somebody takes action. But when you
(33:22):
see kids dancing and doing stuff like that and making
light of the whole situation, you know that do the
exact same thing to somebody else's child and somebody else's school,
shooting some of somebody else's you know, tragedy, And you're like,
we're just going to use this all over again if
we don't, if we don't learn from from these people
and from these these cowards, we got to put some action,
(33:42):
and we got to put some action behind our words.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Joining us tonight, Christy and Steve go, thank you for
being with us. I know that every time you have
to talk about this, It just brings it all up again.
If you could have wish, which of course would be
to have Kelly back, what would be your wish now.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Regarding this feuror.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
And Coberger refusing to pay restitution and this ridiculous movie,
what is your wish Christy?
Speaker 11 (34:24):
You know, I mean the wish of wanting Kayley back
is obviously that that's not possible. So my only other
wish would be for him to hurry up and take
a sauce breath and just we could be done. We
can never have to talk about him again. And as
far as movies go and and books, you know, you
(34:47):
just got to roll with the punches. I mean, you
can't fight them all, you just can't. But him being
dead would be great. I'd be my way me.
Speaker 12 (34:57):
I would try to make something positive out of it
as much as you poss we can. And I feel
like that's what me, Livy and the family's doing is
we're trying to put some actions.
Speaker 13 (35:04):
We're trying to put We're trying to rally around anyone.
Speaker 12 (35:07):
Who who sees something disgusting and puts their foot down
and says, all right, I've had enough.
Speaker 13 (35:13):
I think that's that's the best we can do.
Speaker 12 (35:15):
And if we can take this murder and all the
people's attention on it and say, hey, there's no point
of having.
Speaker 13 (35:21):
Red flags if we're not doing something about it.
Speaker 12 (35:23):
And we see all these killers, and we look back
at their past behaviors and there's all these red flags,
but just not enough action behind them. People just dodging
the bullets, just saying we didn't know he was a
normal person.
Speaker 13 (35:38):
No, you did know. There was things there. There was
girls making complaints all around this individual, over and over,
and you just refuse to listen to them. You just
refuse to do something when they were crying out for help.
And it's happening all the way to today. We're going
to lose tens of thousand dollars because a prosecutor refused
to help us. If he couldn't do it, he didn't,
whatever the reason, he failed us, and it's just happening
(36:01):
over and over and over, and we just we need
some accountability. And this family's all about, you know, doing
whatever we can for these girls, these victims, to make
sure that something comes out of it that changes society
and helps, you know, reduce this type of type of crime. Ever, again,
that's the best I can hope for.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Kelly Gonsolvis didn't get to pick her mode of death.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
She didn't get to pick whether she lived or died.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Neither did Maddie, neither did Ethan, neither did Sanna. To
any Alasta joining us in addition to furor over the
Lifetime movie where the actors and actresses are actually doing
TikTok dancing, some of them still in their bloody clothing,
(36:48):
portraying Kelly and others and posting that that's a whole
other can of worms. Can I talk about what matters,
and that is the trial and Coberger's refusal to pay restitution.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
As was ordered in the plea agreement.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Name Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Anny Alice joining me the star of a true crime podcast. Seriously,
she's been on this case from the very beginning. Annie,
thank you for being with us tonight. Annie. I'm just curious.
I know that Coburger's family sent him a lot of money,
but other people are donating.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
To Brian Coburger.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Why aren't they donating to the families of the victims
on their gofundmes? Who are these people?
Speaker 4 (37:45):
Nancy? It is so unnerving when you really break it down,
because nearly thirty thousand dollars has now poured into his account.
And you know what, we've seen this before, the strange
fan base, the dark celebrity treatment we saw with Chris
Watts as well. But what the motivation is here? I
don't know if it's that people truly believe he's innocent,
if it's women who think they can fix him. But
(38:07):
let's be clear, these people are sending money to an
admitted quadruple murderer. They need to rethink what they're actually
supporting here.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
You know, any Elise, it reminds me of Luigi Magngioni,
and much was made of the fact that about forty
thousand dollars at the get go had been funneled into
his commissary account. Same with Coburger. It's five figures we
now believe to be over thirty thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Are they lovelorn women? I mean, I don't understand who is.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Trying to support Coburger, But you're right, Annie Online, I
see it all the time. People actually angry when I
discuss his guilt. He pled guilty? Did I just dreamed
that whole thing? He pled guilty in court. Annie, No,
you are absolutely right.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
There's a group out there that actually call themselves the
pro Burgers, where they are advocating for his innocence, saying
that it's all a setup, that it's all a cover,
and I argue with them as well. You know, he
admitted to what he did, not in the way that
I think a lot of us hoped he would with
full allocution, but he did admit to butchering these four students.
(39:22):
So for them to now be sending him money still
advocating for him, they need there needs to be some
sort of recalibration here. It does not make any sense
what they're supporting.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Any Elise Also tonight there is an uproar and I
think it's justified regarding a lifetime movie about Brian Coburger's
butchering these four students, and one of the first people
to speak out is Kihlee Gonsovus's sister.
Speaker 14 (39:50):
Listen and I love to do iconic, Hi, so that's
not iconic. You're young, so maybe you don't know, but
I've looked at the past if you've done, and I
think you know, there is such a thing as defamation,
which can be crushing to a career, not that you
(40:13):
really have one, but if you'd like one, maybe you
should just think about it. Maybe you should just think
about if Kaylee was your sister. Maybe you should just
think about what you put out into the world, like
dancing around in between scenes. Maybe you should think about
(40:36):
the projects that you take on. Maybe you should think
that if you lay with dogs, you might get fleets.
So yeah, maybe you should just think you look like
you might be capable of it.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
There you see Kaylee's sister taking to the airways on
TikTok with outrage against this movie, but more so about
this Listen, why.
Speaker 15 (41:05):
This was even a concept that was pitched. I can't
begin to understand. I don't think anyone wants to see
a dramatized version of how these four young people were
killed in their home.
Speaker 8 (41:19):
Mind you, the.
Speaker 15 (41:20):
Trial for the murderer was only a few months ago.
I hope and pray Lifetime decides to pull this from
production and never continue, never ever, ever.
Speaker 16 (41:31):
If you sit back and you look at the loved
ones perspectives for just a second, because no one can
imagine what it's like to walk in their shoes, but
to see an entire movie being made about their lives,
casting actresses to play them and they're not even involved
in this, and they really have no say of stopping in.
Speaker 13 (41:53):
This just feels.
Speaker 16 (41:56):
Really unsettling.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Not only has Kaylee's sister spoken out, I gat about
not just the movie, but the actress and actresses doing
a bloody dance scene sequence where they actually are still
in costume covered in blood.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
What happened?
Speaker 4 (42:17):
So I think that's where the outrage is here. Everybody
expects that Lifetime and other networks will make movies and
react to real life cases, but the way in which
the actors are handling this, that's what's not landing.
Speaker 17 (42:32):
Well.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
Not only are they recreating dance scenes and little catchy
voiceovers to these moves between takes, but there's also been
times in which they are still in wardrobe, there is
blood on them, and they are offset in their trailer
or wherever they are, and they're doing these viral dance
moves and it is just classless, tactless, and of course
(42:54):
has upset a lot of the family members. Kaylee's sister,
as you mentioned, has been very outspoken about this. I
did reach out to her and chatted with her briefly
about it, because not only is she upset that they
didn't consult the family before moving forward with this film,
but also because of the behavior that is happening during filming,
just the disregard for the reality and the brutality of
(43:16):
this being a real life situation that this family went through,
you know too.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Chris McDonald and joining me director Cole Case Foundation, former
homicide detective who has been on the case from the beginning.
He and I going to the scene and investigating. You
can find him on YouTube at the interview room.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Chris.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Obviously, the guys at Lifetime and these actresses, actresses and
actress have never been to an actual crime scene, or
they would not be making light of it.
Speaker 18 (43:49):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And you know, let's remember when
you make a deal with the devil, he's going to
come collecting, and it looks like he's collecting right now,
like what Doc Morgan was talking about just a minute ago. Nancy,
Let's not forget that there's evidence of aspiration blood, meaning
while Brian Kolberger is stabbing these individuals so brutally, they
(44:13):
are trying to breathe, And this is what we're dealing with.
And if our culture thinks that's a good thing. We
need to take a hard look in the mirror.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
J Scott, you heard what Chris mcdunnag just said. He's
the expert. He's been to thousands of crime scenes. Obviously,
the actresses and actors and the producers at Lifetime have
never been to an actual crime scene. Could you explain
what this crime scene was really like, Joe Scott.
Speaker 9 (44:47):
As Chris had mentioned, there was aspiration of this blood
and kind of let me give you a for instance
for this. So if a lung is penetrated and airway
is penetrated, you aspirate that blood, which means you you
draw in and then you expiated nancy. So it's literally
blown out like this. So you can see the blood
(45:08):
deposited on various surfaces, and it looks different than say
standard like blood splatter where you see something driven or
struck into an area. It's kind of got an air
rated appearance to it. It's almost sometimes you'll even see
air bubbles in it. And that really lets you know
about these final moments that they have just screaming for life,
screaming for air because their brain is screaming out they
(45:31):
can no longer breathe, and that's the brutality that's involved,
and these people that live in this fantasy world like this,
that try to make a buck off of these poor people.
It's beyond the pale, Nancy. I wish, just for once
they could come and let me take them to an autopsy.
Let them see what that's like. Let them hear the
screams and the wails of the family. I bet they
(45:53):
won't want to do this again.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Scott, the brutality inflicted on Kelly gonna solve us alone.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
Can you describe what happened to her face?
Speaker 2 (46:03):
And now these actresses, this actress covered in blood is
doing a dance tik talk about it, still covered in
fake blood.
Speaker 8 (46:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (46:10):
He's taking a heavy steel blade and driving it through
her face. And I still contend that he took it
around because there were other abrasions on her face. Took
it around and began to pummel her with the handle
like this, and probably inverted the handle and began to
do this as well, driving it almost like the head
of a hanner into her face, over and over and
(46:31):
over again. Nancy, she had so many wounds that dig
this had so many wounds that they were cross communicating
and overlying one another. It was hard to delineate between
these wounds because of the inflicted trauma, where you've got
this overlapping that occurs that happens a lot in cases,
but here you had it happen with multiple people, just
(46:53):
Maddie as well, that happened with her as well, where
you had these cross communications of injury with her as well.
So this was a level of brutality that I think
that probably for those crime Sene investigators that were out
there that seen none of them had ever borne witness
to anything like this before.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Could you describe a scene of arterial bleeding such as
what Ethan suffered.
Speaker 9 (47:18):
Yeah, So every time a vessel is clipped and the
heart is still beating, and remember just because you have
a vessel that has been clipped in your neck doesn't
mean that you die. He eventually dies of what's referred
to as exanguination, which means you're bleeding out. The loss
of blood is incompatible with life, and so the blood
(47:39):
is literally depositing itself as it's spraying out from the injuries.
Every time that heart beats, it pulses, it contracts. That
blood is driven out through that open wound and it
deposits on any of the adjacent surfaces, and you could
see this. Sometimes you'll see it in kind of this
histamine like spray that kind of arcs over a wall.
(48:00):
I've seen this multiple times, it seems, and it almost
looks like a bloody rainbow, layer upon layer, and the
person's writhing in pain. And so that pattern is going
to change every time that blood spurts out. And that
would have told the tale with any of these investigators
that were out there, born witness to what Ethan had
had gone through. And here's the thing, Nancy, Nobody in
(48:22):
court's ever going to see that, are they He's going
to get there. This guy is going to be able
just to say, yeah, yeah, well I did it, But
no one's ever going to be able to see the
horror that he actually inflicted on these people. And that's
why he's got three hots in the cot. Now, doesn't he.
Speaker 19 (48:37):
Trying on a location of the emergency? You don't know
what what is there of the emergency? What is the
rest of the address. Okay, and there's the house for
(49:00):
an apartment? It's the house. Can you repeat theadress to
make sure that I have it right.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
I'll talk to you guys.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
We're we live at the lights cover next to them.
Speaker 19 (49:12):
I need someone to repeat theadress for raterification. The address
one one to two King Drugs.
Speaker 17 (49:18):
Hailey Hanson plays Kayleie Gonzovez in the new Lifetime movie
The Idaho Murders and uploads of video to TikTok dancing
with the actors playing Maddie Mogan and Brian Coberger as
all three are dressed in character. The video has upset
family and friends who see the portrayal as disrespectful. Hailey
Hansen took the video down.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Joining us now doctor John Delatorre. He is a licensed
psychologist and he specializes in forensic psychology. You have worked
with so many crime victims. You've got, on one hand,
Coburger refusing to pay restitution for the earns of his
victims that he butchered. Then you've got a Lifetime movie
(50:03):
where the actresses and actors are doing dance tiktoks covered
in fake blood. I mean, this family, these four families
have been through hell and back. They've got a prosecutor
that writes them a form letter explaining why, oh yeah,
if you want anything more, you Consie Civilly, why don't
(50:23):
you go hire a lawyer. Will it never end for
these people?
Speaker 15 (50:30):
No?
Speaker 20 (50:30):
Probably not. I mean when then all of these wounds
are going to be reopened once this movie actually comes out.
Because here's the nefarious thing. I highly doubt that this
movie is really going to take the crime victims right
where they're really going to look at the lives of
these young lives, These young, beautiful lives are really going
to be taken center stage. I imagine everything is going
(50:51):
to be focused on Brian Coberger because that's where people
think that they're interested live. But these four people deserve
to have a life. If they needed a movie, they
should be the focus, and instead they're probably going to
just be relegated to the four victims in Brian Coberger's massacre.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
You know what, delatory, who is going to profit off
this movie other than lifetime. If they were telling the
stories of the victims' families, they would probably profit. But
I doubt very seriously that that's the way it's going
to go.
Speaker 8 (51:26):
No, of course not.
Speaker 20 (51:27):
Of course, that's not going to be the thing because
in their mind, right, the producers of this movie, in
their mind, the idea is that we're going to bring
in all the eyeballs because people want to understand the
complexities of Brian Coberger. Brian Coberger is not complex. He's
not even that interesting.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
Complexities of Brian Coberger.
Speaker 20 (51:46):
I don't think he's I don't think he's complex. That's
what the producers think. I think and those people, people
like me that actually care about humanity, who actually have empathy,
want to hear the stories, want to hear the stories
of these victims. Want to hear about the lives of
these victims and the traumas that they had to face
and their family members have to experience. Now, we don't
(52:08):
want to see a movie about Brian Colberger. I know
I don't want to see it. I want to hear
about these stories of these young lives loss, these young
beautiful lives loss.
Speaker 13 (52:16):
That's what I.
Speaker 8 (52:17):
Want to hear.
Speaker 20 (52:17):
But producers don't think that people will watch that.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Chris mcdona, you and I have investigated and tried hundreds
thousands of cases at this point. Who wants to go
into the mind of Brian Coburger and do a dramatization
of him.
Speaker 18 (52:38):
That's a great question, Nancy, I mean, and isn't that
the big the big problem here in our society as
a whole in terms of, you know, the access to
social media where we get instant gratification and we think
in bits and bites anymore. But we forget this one
point and you just raised it a couple of minutes ago.
You know this guy sat in that room post mortem,
(53:01):
experimenting on those bodies. Why is that important for the
public to know? In terms of let's make a movie
about this. It's crazy. We've lost our minds.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
You know, Josh Cole's rude. I'm trying to think. I'm
an alternative. If you're like me, my mind is already
raced for about twenty steps. What's the best alternative? Is
there a way to throw out the play deal? I mean,
the Lifetime movie and the actresses dancing around covered in
(53:35):
blood is disgusting. I'm thinking about a way to make
actual change, to do something. The only thing I can
think of is to try to reneg the deal, to.
Speaker 3 (53:52):
Void the deal.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
A you can't have that prosecution's office in on it.
That that's impossible. Even if there aren't good lawyers within
the office, it's too late. They're tainted by their leader.
It'll have to be a fed or a special prosecutor.
But is there a hope. Is there a way Josh
to get the play deal voided?
Speaker 8 (54:17):
Yes, there is.
Speaker 7 (54:19):
There's two ways. You just mentioned one which is a
federal action, but there's a much more simple way, and
that is through victims' rights. Now, in Idaho, the prosecution
is required to go over and make sure that the
victims understand the plea agreement and that they've conferred with
(54:42):
the victims. And here it's very obvious that that process
did not happen in full because during the restitution hearing,
the prosecution admitted on the record that it was their
fault that the proper restitution terms were not in the
the agreement. So that tells me that the victims' rights
(55:03):
were violated. So the victims on their own, through their attorney,
can file a special action with the court demanding that
the pre agreement be unraveled and the case be set
for trial because of the material misrepresentations by the prosecution
and now by the defendant Coburger by not being honest
(55:24):
about his finances and not having good faith about paying
the restitution that they deserve.
Speaker 2 (55:29):
Guys, I don't always like what Col's root has to
say because he's typically defending someone, but He's right. There
could be a way around this deal with the devil?
But now will it happen? I am begging the FEDS
to intervene. I am begging a court to investigate this
(55:54):
and appoint an independent prosecutor. How can we stand by
and hear these families pain and do nothing? The current
US Attorney for the Idaho District is Bart M.
Speaker 3 (56:11):
Davis. Repeat, Bart M. Davis.
Speaker 2 (56:15):
The number two zero eight three three four one two
one one two zero eight three three four.
Speaker 3 (56:23):
One two one one.
Speaker 2 (56:26):
You have the knowledge, use it? Is there a way
out of this deal with the devil? The local prosecutor
struck with Brian Coburger. Can we get Coburger to trial? Now,
we remember an American hero Border Patrol Agent, Freddie Ortiz,
(56:46):
US Department Homeland Security, killed in the line of duty
after thirteen years serving and protecting. Leaving behind is grieving
mother American hero Patrol Agent Freddie is Nancy Grace signing
off goodbye friend.
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Brian Coberger is contesting his plea deal, renegging on some
of the orders in exchange for life over the death penalty.
Can the case now go to trial amidst a lifetime
Idaho four movie outrage, Good evening, a Nancy Grace, this
(00:26):
is Crime Stories.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Brian Coburger admitted pled guilty to four murders.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
They were worse than murders.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
They were slaughters of four innocent college students University of Idaho.
Straight out to Annie Eli's host of Seriously, Annie Coburger
is welching on a major tenet of his plea deal.
Under the law, I mean, Annie, that would be like
(00:56):
me sentencing you to twenty years on armed robbery and
and you have to elocute in court exactly what happened.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
We do the deal, and then you refuse to eloquet. Okay,
deals off.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
What is he contesting paying for funeral expenses?
Speaker 4 (01:14):
It seems to me like it's all about back to control.
He doesn't seem to like any of the inconveniences that
are happening now that he's behind bars, whether it's what
he overhears the prisoner, saying about him the money that's
pouring in and having to possibly use that toward restitution.
I think the reality is now setting in for him
and there's starting to be some back pedaling happening.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It's my understanding to Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter
that Coburger is bulking at paying for the victims earns
and other expenses.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
Right exactly, Nancy. The shocking part of it is that
in that plea deal, all of this was already negotiated.
All of this was part of it so that he
could avoid going to try and avoid the needle or
the gun. And yet now they're going back in and saying, well,
we need to send this to the mathematicians that accounting
(02:10):
at the state to determine whether or not he's able
to pay for it, because he's in prison for the
rest of his life, and that actually is something that
he's not allowed to do. This plea bargain said he
could not go back later and appeal it, he couldn't
contest any aspect of it, and in so doing, Nancy,
(02:30):
I wonder why have they not already said, boom over,
you're going to trial.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Well, the judge seems to agree with you, Dave Matt
Listen to hip Hoar.
Speaker 6 (02:38):
So you took advantage of the plea agreement to get
the benefit of the bargain regarding the state's dropping of
the death penalty. Why should you not be held to
the plea agreement to pay the victims the costs of
in turning their children?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I mean, for Pete's sake, does Judge Hippler have to
feed the prosecution with a silver spoon? Here's your way
out of this disastrous plea deal, out of all of
your lies and your secret deals. Coburger is contesting restitution
that was part of the deal. So deal is off.
(03:22):
I mean, can the judge make it any more clear?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Listen to Hippler.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
What's the point of the plea agreement on restitution if
the defense is able to argue against the restitution called
for in the plea agreement itself.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And it's not an issue? Is it to any last
joining us from seriously, Annie, he's got at least a
five figure amount of money in his commissary account.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
It's unbelievable. First and foremost, the fact that people are
sending an admitted quadruple murderer tens of thousands of dollars
then for him to be contesting payment the restitution that
is outlined And I'm sorry, but three thousand dollars for
the earns is that the going rate these days for
a life. It's just if he's afforded these comforts of ramen,
(04:12):
toilet trees, different treats with his commissary, why should he
get more comforts than the victims were ever afforded.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Brian Coburger has just been ordered by the judge to
fork over thirty grand from his slush fund. Fine, I'm
glad you did that, Judge, to pay the victims' families.
But the fact that Coburger has contested the deal stop
everything deals off joining me is a veteran trial lawyer
(04:43):
who will tell you the truth.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
We may not like it, but the truth. Josh colesrud
is with us.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
He is a veteran criminal defense attorney, former US attorney,
founder of Colesrood Law Offices. Josh, I know that now
in this incarnation of yourself you are a defense attorney.
But isn't it true that when a defendant, when a
(05:08):
defendant backs out of one of the tenants of the
plea deal, the deal is off.
Speaker 7 (05:17):
Yes, So a plea agreement is a contract and it
has specific terms that need to be followed, and if
those terms are breached, then the plea agreement can be
undone and this case can be set for trial. One
of the ways that that could happen is a material
breach and not paying restitution.
Speaker 8 (05:40):
So what does that.
Speaker 7 (05:41):
Mean, Well, Brian Koberger agreed to have a fair dealing
with his finances, his money where it was going, and
to pay restitution. Now the state is saying that it
was their screw up that they didn't include the terms
in the plea agreement, But that's nonsense.
Speaker 8 (06:01):
I'll tell you why.
Speaker 7 (06:02):
Because the defendant, Brian Koberger, was levied a two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars fine, and that fine, the money
from that can can garnish his wages and that money
can be transferred into the victim compensation fund. So they
should be able to still go after the money. And
so what the prosecution is doing here, they're just being lazy.
(06:23):
They're not confident in what they're saying. The judge is
actually having to tell them and give them a roadmap
out of this, because honestly, they're incompetent. I have no
idea why they decided to actually plead this case out
when if there was ever a death penal deal, that's
a whole.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Nother can of worms coals rude you and me both.
Coburger argued last week he was refusing and unable to
pay twenty seven thousand dollars restitution to the families, the
families of students he butchered dead. The judge threw out
his complaint, his complaint of poverty, no voting that he
(07:01):
has gotten hundreds of dollars from supporters, totally nearly thirty
thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Now he's being ordered to pay restitution. That's will and good.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
My point is he contested the deal. He hasn't paid it.
He's saying he doesn't want to pay it, that he's
unable to pay it, which is a lie because I
know about his five figures of money. He's got his
commissary account. To me, that's welching on a deal. Joe
(07:34):
Scott Morgan is joining me, Professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University.
He's the author of Blood Beneath My Feet. He's the
star of a hit podcast which is incredible Body bags
with Joe Scott Morgan, on and on. But for our purposes,
he is a veteran death investigator, thousands of death scene investigations,
(07:55):
every cod every mod cause of death, matter of death.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
You can imagine why why.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Should this have never been a sweet plea deal? Let's
just start with that. Why is this so inflammatory that
this was even allowed to be a plea? And he's
ordered to pay the family's restitution after butchering their children,
and now he's backing out of it. You know what, fine,
(08:22):
I'd be mad if you didn't. Let's go to trial.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Why is this so wrong?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Joe Scott.
Speaker 9 (08:30):
In South we have a term that says, let the
hide come with a hair. My granddaddy used to say
that all the time. If he feels froggy, let's jump,
let's go to trial. Because now we have buckets and
buckets of evidence that have been revealed. Now, I got
to tell you, Nancy, give me a little rope here.
I know I'm not an attorney, I understand that, but
he's kind of got a point of leverage here. They
just released a tranche of twenty four hundred documents of
(08:53):
forensic evidence. Now, so if this thing did go to trial.
Everything has been reveal and you know, if you think
about from the perspective of taining the jury pool, perhaps
they've seen all of this stuff. We've got images that
are floating around out there.
Speaker 8 (09:10):
Nancy.
Speaker 9 (09:11):
They have flown and I'll say this directly to the prosecutor,
they have flown this case into the side.
Speaker 8 (09:17):
Of the mountain from Jump Street. All right.
Speaker 9 (09:20):
They got nobody to blame but themselves. I was an
advocate from the beginning to say that he, like you
had mentioned a second ago, he should have allocuted in
court to everything that he did instead of sitting there,
Instead of sitting there and not saying a damn word
other than yes, I did it.
Speaker 8 (09:38):
You know, even BTK was compelled. Nancy. There are people
sitting on death rod.
Speaker 9 (09:42):
Right now in Idaho that have done far less butchery
than he does. He's killed four people, slaughtered them, and
now he's complaining about having to pay the family money.
This is a gigantic mess.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Just got Morgan.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
The nature of the murders was more akin to a
butchering a slaughtering. When I look at specifically, well, they're
all horrible. Ethan had his jugular vein slashed, which means
there was arterial bleeding, which means that coming from his neck.
(10:20):
Ethan's neck, it was like a water sprinkler in the
front yard, spurting his life's blood until.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
He was dead.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
The disfiguration of Kie Gonsalvius, for her face was stabbed
between twenty and thirty times.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Could not even identify her. He stabbed her teeth out of.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Her mouth and more. The other two Maddie and Xana
horribly horribly disfigured. Why is it that it is so
insulting it now he says he can't pay restitution. That
was part of the deal.
Speaker 9 (11:06):
When you think about just Kaylee alone, Nancy, not only
was she stabbed, she had blunt force trauma to her face.
I actually believed that he took that k bar knife
and flipped it on the end of its handle. That
was driven into her multiple times too. You've got these
crushing injuries to her face. She's got severe maxial facial
facial damage. And then you know, you take this robust
(11:27):
knife blade and you drive it into her, and not
just her, but these other victims as well. You've got
Maddie laying there and she's been butchered as well. Nancy
this would have been a bloodbath contained to that, contained
to that bud, blood to the bed where they were killed.
And we've also got bloody deposition that's laying all over
the floor that appears to me, Nancy, that he was
(11:50):
standing there and probably gazing at the bodies as blood
is dripping and following away free form and striking the
ground directly below his feet. See this blood throughout the house.
The deposition that goes to this point that all of
this information now has been revealed, So you know, where
does the family turn at this point? In tom all
they're asking for is to show respect to their loved
(12:15):
ones that have been killed. Nancy, he must pay.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I don't understand what is wrong with the prosecutor. That's
been asked many many times. The judge is basically spoon
feeding him with a silver spoon away out of his
disastrous plea deal.
Speaker 10 (12:30):
Listen to Hipler, isn't a reasonable interpretation of the plea
agreement that the defendant will not contest the states seeking
of restitution that is outlined in the plea Agreementwise, otherwise
why would it need to be in the plea agreement?
(12:52):
It seems to me it's the plea agreement. A reasonable
interpretation is the defendant is agreeing to pay restitution for
those items that are identified in the plea agreement, which includes.
Speaker 6 (13:04):
Victims compensation apartment, which includes in this case, funeral expenses.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Joining us tonight to special guests, the parents of Killi Gonsolvas,
Christy and Steve Christian and Steve, thank you for being
with us first listen to this.
Speaker 6 (13:23):
So you took advantage of the plea agreement to get
the benefit of the bargain regarding the state's dropping of
the death penalty. Why should you not be held to
the plea agreement to pay the victims the costs of
in turning their children?
Speaker 7 (13:43):
Judge, I believe that our fleeting was clear, that we
understood that burns fell underneath of funeral.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Costs, but that once we have a hearing on this matter.
Speaker 11 (13:52):
That doesn't eliminate the court's duty under nineteen fifty three
oh four to do the ability to pay analysis.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
And that's why, well, are you in violation of the
plea agreement by arguing that your claient shouldn't have to.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Pay those and more from the judge.
Speaker 6 (14:09):
What's the point of the plea agreement on restitution if
the defense is able to argue against the restitution called
for in the plea agreement itself.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
At this hour, Coburger has been contesting paying funeral expenses
on the four students he murdered. That's bad enough, but
here's the question. If he's renigging on the deal, then
the deal is off and this case can go to
(14:41):
trial if the prosecutor has the backbone to do.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
It, which I doubt.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Straight out to Christy and Steve Gonsalvez joining us, Christy,
you got a shocking letter from the prosecut Christy, could
you explain what the letter says?
Speaker 11 (15:04):
Well, basically, it says that the travel expense part of
the restitution cannot be paid via the defendant's restitution, so
we can civilly sue him for it, which is just
you know, we're exhausted, you know, and now something is
(15:28):
just hard.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Christy?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Can I paraphrase what you just said? You can sue Coburger.
That's what the prosecution is offering.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
The mother of a murdered girl.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I'm not gonna handle it, but you know what, you
can go hire a lawyer, Christy, and you can pay.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
The lawyer to sue Brian Coburger. Let's take a look
at this letter.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
It says, and it says, dear gentlemen, he can't even
write your name. Attached is a copy of the court's
order on state's requests for restitution copies of restitution orders.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
For your client's funeral related expenses.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
It tells you to look at footnote one at the
bottom of page one. We were not able to pursue
travel expenses. We were not able to pursue Steve Gonzalez.
What does that mean when the prosecutor writes you basically
a form letter referring to you and your wife and
(16:33):
others as dear gentlemen.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
When I get something like that, I assume it's a
bill collector.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
The state, in other words, him was not able to
pursue your travel expenses where you had to leave your
job and your home and drive seven hours and hold
up in a hotel to be in court.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
They were quote not.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Able to pursue that from you. Coburger has five figures
sitting in his commissary account. He will make a movie deal,
it's allowed under the.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Law in Idaho.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
He will write a book. But they did not pursue
those expenses for you.
Speaker 12 (17:14):
Steve now Right off the get go, we said that
this deal, the plea deal, could be done, but it
has to be done correctly, and I didn't think he
had the skill level to do it correctly. That's why
we pretty much demanded that the attorney's generals get involved.
Speaker 13 (17:31):
And you know, that was the best option we could have.
But yeah, he.
Speaker 12 (17:37):
Doesn't know what he's doing. I mean, he's over his head.
He's a boomer that's literally was trying to retire before
this case even happened, and he's mentally retired. So we're
the ones losing thousands of dollars, tens of thousands of
dollars to his mistakes. And it's embarrassing for the state
of Idaho. And I mean, we did everything for that
(17:57):
courtroom so that they could get the resource and they
can get the attention, and we just couldn't.
Speaker 13 (18:03):
Get him out of that room.
Speaker 12 (18:04):
And that's really, that really is what's hurting this case
is we have Thompson in there just dropping the ball
repeatedly over and over and literally omitting it like I
totally screwed up, not apologizing but just saying I screwed up.
I mean, because it's clearly obvious. The whole world's watching.
He can't get himself out of it. But we've been
bringing attention to this from the very beginning that there
(18:27):
was I mean, we talked about his office leaking information
because we knew where the information was coming from, but.
Speaker 13 (18:34):
Nobody ever investigated it.
Speaker 12 (18:35):
Nobody even came to our family and said, how did
you guys know that they were leaking information?
Speaker 13 (18:41):
Even nobody's interviewed us to this day.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Can I ask you how you know it was the
prosecutor's office that was leaking the info. Remember there was
going to be a big investigation and then it just disappeared.
Speaker 12 (18:55):
There's a couple different ways, and I can't I won't
get into it on an open microphone like this, But
if you go and look how Anne knew to subpoena
my lawyer and our family and what we were discussing. Basically,
if you reverse that back, you're going to figure out
that somebody in that room told Anne that we were
(19:17):
talking about one of the witnesses and we knew information
about her. So she knew to subpoena our lawyer and
the conversations that we were having with just his office.
So how does Anne know how does she even know
that she should be requesting the communication from our personal
lawyer to them what.
Speaker 11 (19:38):
Christy emails she was requesting all emails from from our attorney,
Shannon Gray, our family regarding this witness.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
And it was like, okay, and the only tom you
discussed that was with reps from the DA's office.
Speaker 13 (19:57):
Exactly.
Speaker 12 (19:58):
Those are the only people we communicated with officially, and
we didn't talk to anyone else about what we had
heard it. We had just heard it within probably forty
eight hours, and forget about it.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
He says, and I'm quoting as we previously submitted response
to the court. We believe the crime actant's compensation would
be able to reimburse travel and accommodation expenses after the fact.
Then we learned that wasn't correct, So they entered into
a deal before they even knew whether you could get
(20:30):
reimbursed for all that.
Speaker 12 (20:32):
That's what it sounds like to me on a Sunday
after like talking to us on Friday. I mean, these
guys didn't do much work at all, but now they're
working on their Sundays to basically throw the case away.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
From crime Stories with Nancy Grace. But the last sentence
in this letter makes me just want to chew and
nail in half quote. At this point, it appears there
are no remaining outstanding legal issues in the criminal case
(21:08):
other than ongoing.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Review of previously sealed documents for.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Possible public release. Sincerely, William W. Thompson, Jr. No remaining issues.
Speaker 11 (21:21):
I thought that was very weird.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Now I condolences, no sympathy, no empathy, no anything.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
I mean, this is.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Basically a form letter covering his rear end.
Speaker 11 (21:37):
I was very surprised to see how it When I
read that last sentence too, I was like, Wow, that's.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
How we're going to end it.
Speaker 11 (21:43):
No further problems. If you guys want to get a
civil lawyer, you could sue them on your own separately.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
But I'm very curious, why do you believe what could
the possible motivate should be. I have a theory that
someone in the prosecution's office that you were speaking with,
and I can only assume that you went straight to
the top discussing issues with a trial witness, and then
(22:14):
within hours the defense attorney suddenly wants to subpoena your
lawyer's documents about conversations regarding that witness. All I can
think of is that the prosecution Thompson wanted to further
along a plea deal by releasing potentially damning evidence on
(22:39):
a witness.
Speaker 11 (22:41):
That's what we thought.
Speaker 13 (22:43):
Yeah, yeah, if you connect the dots, you could see
that because the information.
Speaker 12 (22:49):
That we had for them was daming, was damning to
be case. So certain things people want to leak to
scare people, to intimidate them, to let them think that
there's more going on than what is, or or just
letting them know that you've got you've got some information
that they're not completely pavy privy to. So obviously something
(23:13):
was going on because she knew to ask for our communications,
and it just makes no sense how she would know that.
This whole case has just been so hard to deal with.
I mean, and we always all we did was a
demand that whoever was in that courtroom that they they
just did their best job every single day. And I
remember telling Thompson because I was warned that he wasn't
(23:34):
the man who could get this job done. So I
just said, hey, if you're not, if you're checked out,
if you want to retire, I get it. I respect
you. You worked your whole life, you're seventy some years old.
You don't want it, step away, step away somebody.
Speaker 13 (23:49):
We'll go get someone. But he wanted to fame, but
he didn't want the work.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Christy and Steve.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
The fact that Coburger is contesting issues within the plea deal,
that's not the banner the important part of this. We
know he's contesting paying restitution. Could that and rescind renig.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
The plea deal?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Because if he is backing out of conditions of the
plea deal, then the deal is off. Have you considered
this could take the case to trial if Coburger himself
is refusing to pay restitution as ordered in the plea deal.
Speaker 11 (24:36):
Well, when you bring it up to our attention like that,
you know, with with your knowledge of how a court is,
how courtrooms run, and what has happened, I would love
for that to happen. But I feel like it's all
just games and none of it is taken serious. Like, oh,
he doesn't want to pay his restitution. Slap slap, slap,
(24:57):
You can't do that. Pay your restitution? Move gone not.
You know, you did a huge thing. You violated the
plea deal. There's no you know, second chances. We're going
to trial.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Just all game.
Speaker 11 (25:09):
It's just all the defense game. I mean, it just
games all the way around. I just feel like it's
just never ending. And now we're left with well, you
could civily sue, and that's just so frustrating. It's like,
you know what, we're out, you know, a lot of
money with everything. The last thing we want to do
is sue and just be drugging.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Did more and more court.
Speaker 11 (25:28):
You know, we were just hoping that they could handle it,
the state could handle it on our behalf. So it
would be nice to say you violated the plea deal.
So we're going to trial.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Well, this is what bills Dante Steve. Let's look at this.
So I take a play deal.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Twenty to serve, all right, and the definite thing goes, yeah,
I'm not.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Going to do that.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
I'm not I'm not going to do twenty. Well, then
the deal is off. Pay your restitution. It's an important
part of that deal. And if Coburger contests it, fine,
I'd be mad if he didn't. Now let's go to trial.
That is possible. He's nigging on the deal. That's on him.
(26:12):
So what you'd have to do, what we would have
to do is get Thompson off this case.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
He can't try this case.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Someone else, an independent prosecutor, would have to try it,
which would be great.
Speaker 12 (26:26):
I would love to see that. I would see that,
and for that lector, that letter. He doesn't respect the
investigation that Hitler's doing. He didn't say that that was
still going on. He said, we're done, we're over. He
has no fear of Hitpler's investigation because he holds all
the cards, he has all the power. So really I
would love for an independent person to come in and
(26:47):
look at it. And we're talking about this guy has
been trying to control the narrative, you know, pKa from
the very beginning, the Minuy he even got in prison,
he started writing up complaints and started doing formalities and saying,
you're gonna transferm me, You're gonna do this, You're gonna
do that. We got to just put our foot down
to these kind of psychopath killers and stop entertaining them
and stop treating them with baby gloves.
Speaker 13 (27:08):
It's just it's just disgusting.
Speaker 12 (27:10):
And and and we're doing it all the way up
three years later, we're still entertaining and.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Still question have either you or Christy reached out to
the FEDS to take this case.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
To them.
Speaker 12 (27:28):
I have talked to this that it's been a while
since I have, but they're the ones that told me
Thompson wasn't even ready for this.
Speaker 13 (27:34):
I don't go with this guy. This, this is not
gonna it's not get in well.
Speaker 12 (27:37):
But they also at the same time told me we're
not going to give you the death penalty either.
Speaker 13 (27:41):
So I tried to pick the lesser of.
Speaker 12 (27:43):
The two to two evils, and I was saying, well,
at least I get the death penalty in Idaho. And
I had a lot of belief in the Idaho system.
I was just let down by a prosecutor who just
was already retired and I didn't know it.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Steve and Christy Gomsolve was joining us to on top
of these revelations in this cold blooded form letter from
the prosecutor to them saying, yeah, you're not going to
ever get your money back.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
That's insult to injury.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
The money. Yeah, they're out a lot of money, thousands
of dollars. They're out their daughter, they are out their daughter.
Their daughter was horribly murdered, and we didn't know the
truth about what happened to Kiahy until after the secret
Plea deal goes down and now they're getting another gut
(28:34):
punch from a maid for TV movie and this is
what their daughter, Olivia.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Has to say.
Speaker 14 (28:40):
Hi, so that's not iconic. You're young, so maybe you
don't know. But I've looked at the past that you've done,
and I think you know. There is such a thing
as defamation, which can be crushing to a career. Not
that you really have one, but if you'd like one,
(29:04):
maybe you should just think about it. Maybe you should
just think about if Kaylee was your sister. Maybe you
should just think about what you put out into the world,
like dancing around in between scenes. Maybe you should think
about the projects that you take on. Maybe you should
think that if you lay with dogs, you might get fleets.
(29:30):
So yeah, maybe you should just think you look like
you might be capable of it.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
That's why I'm at Olivia Goon's office on TikTok, and
ever since she first opened her mouth, I knew that
she's a champion.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
What is she talking about?
Speaker 11 (29:50):
Christy Well, one of the actresses, I think it was
the one portraying Kaylee had to TikTok and they were
her and Matt her and Maddie were dressed up, they
were bleeding, and they were dancing with the defendant and
the three of them were dancing and laughing and hoot
(30:11):
and hollering and whatnot and carrying on. And she posted
it on TikTok something about you know, loving your job
or something, and it was like they were just appalled.
We were like, Okay, have fun with your coworkers after work,
but I mean, do you have to, you know, be
dancing around.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
And you were seeing this from Haley Hanson on TikTok. Christy,
when you discovered that this was going on, how did
that make you feel? Because even this many years later
after my fiance was murdered, when people write about it
(30:50):
and make negative comments about it, it never goes away
the pain from that much less someone dancing around on
TikTok talk in the middle of portraying Kiley.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
It's very hard. It makes you sick.
Speaker 11 (31:07):
It makes you literally sick to your stomach. And there
there were others where she is dressed up, you know,
with a lot of blood on her and stuff and
and smiling and saying you know, oh, I'm all you know,
ready for my, my, my scene. It's just it's disgusting
and it hurts and it makes you just it makes
(31:29):
you ill that that somebody would actually take a role
to portray somebody that died in such a horrific way
and take make light of it, make light of it
and and have it to have fun doing it, you know,
like not even somber or like, gosh, this is really hard.
But no, you know, let's have a dance party after
(31:50):
and let's make tiktoks in between scenes.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
It's hard.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Stayle solvice.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
I know that you guys have much bigger issues than
some actress Haley Hanson dancing around in fake blood during
an outtake of during a break from the movie. You
have a lot more on your plate than that. But
(32:19):
how did that strike you? Because I can see how
upset Olivia is about it.
Speaker 12 (32:26):
I look at the bigger picture and it feels like
every time I turn on the TV, I see some
like shooting, killing, mass murder, and I think to myself,
we have.
Speaker 13 (32:37):
Multiple problems, but one of them.
Speaker 12 (32:39):
Is kids who think they can do TikTok dances after
you know, as being part of this messaging, is part
of this narrative, is part of this corrective measure. If
you want to say that's what they're trying to do,
because I want to refuse to think that it's entertainment.
But clearly that organization doesn't understand what they're trying to represent,
and they don't have a clear message, and they're not
(33:01):
trying to help society get better and figure out. You know,
when these people put out these red flags, that we
do something about it. Part of that could be a
documentation or a document on it and say, you know,
these are the red flags, and if you see these
things in your community, you know, put your foot down
and make sure that somebody takes action. But when you
(33:22):
see kids dancing and doing stuff like that and making
light of the whole situation, you know that do the
exact same thing to somebody else's child and somebody else's school,
shooting some of somebody else's you know, tragedy, And you're like,
we're just going to use this all over again if
we don't, if we don't learn from from these people
and from these these cowards, we got to put some action,
(33:42):
and we got to put some action behind our words.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Joining us tonight, Christy and Steve go, thank you for
being with us. I know that every time you have
to talk about this, It just brings it all up again.
If you could have wish, which of course would be
to have Kelly back, what would be your wish now.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
Regarding this feuror.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
And Coberger refusing to pay restitution and this ridiculous movie,
what is your wish Christy?
Speaker 11 (34:24):
You know, I mean the wish of wanting Kayley back
is obviously that that's not possible. So my only other
wish would be for him to hurry up and take
a sauce breath and just we could be done. We
can never have to talk about him again. And as
far as movies go and and books, you know, you
(34:47):
just got to roll with the punches. I mean, you
can't fight them all, you just can't. But him being
dead would be great. I'd be my way me.
Speaker 12 (34:57):
I would try to make something positive out of it
as much as you poss we can. And I feel
like that's what me, Livy and the family's doing is
we're trying to put some actions.
Speaker 13 (35:04):
We're trying to put We're trying to rally around anyone.
Speaker 12 (35:07):
Who who sees something disgusting and puts their foot down
and says, all right, I've had enough.
Speaker 13 (35:13):
I think that's that's the best we can do.
Speaker 12 (35:15):
And if we can take this murder and all the
people's attention on it and say, hey, there's no point
of having.
Speaker 13 (35:21):
Red flags if we're not doing something about it.
Speaker 12 (35:23):
And we see all these killers, and we look back
at their past behaviors and there's all these red flags,
but just not enough action behind them. People just dodging
the bullets, just saying we didn't know he was a
normal person.
Speaker 13 (35:38):
No, you did know. There was things there. There was
girls making complaints all around this individual, over and over,
and you just refuse to listen to them. You just
refuse to do something when they were crying out for help.
And it's happening all the way to today. We're going
to lose tens of thousand dollars because a prosecutor refused
to help us. If he couldn't do it, he didn't,
whatever the reason, he failed us, and it's just happening
(36:01):
over and over and over, and we just we need
some accountability. And this family's all about, you know, doing
whatever we can for these girls, these victims, to make
sure that something comes out of it that changes society
and helps, you know, reduce this type of type of crime. Ever, again,
that's the best I can hope for.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Kelly Gonsolvis didn't get to pick her mode of death.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
She didn't get to pick whether she lived or died.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Neither did Maddie, neither did Ethan, neither did Sanna. To
any Alasta joining us in addition to furor over the
Lifetime movie where the actors and actresses are actually doing
TikTok dancing, some of them still in their bloody clothing,
(36:48):
portraying Kelly and others and posting that that's a whole
other can of worms. Can I talk about what matters,
and that is the trial and Coberger's refusal to pay restitution.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
As was ordered in the plea agreement.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Name Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Anny Alice joining me the star of a true crime podcast. Seriously,
she's been on this case from the very beginning. Annie,
thank you for being with us tonight. Annie. I'm just curious.
I know that Coburger's family sent him a lot of money,
but other people are donating.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
To Brian Coburger.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Why aren't they donating to the families of the victims
on their gofundmes? Who are these people?
Speaker 4 (37:45):
Nancy? It is so unnerving when you really break it down,
because nearly thirty thousand dollars has now poured into his account.
And you know what, we've seen this before, the strange
fan base, the dark celebrity treatment we saw with Chris
Watts as well. But what the motivation is here? I
don't know if it's that people truly believe he's innocent,
if it's women who think they can fix him. But
(38:07):
let's be clear, these people are sending money to an
admitted quadruple murderer. They need to rethink what they're actually
supporting here.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
You know, any Elise, it reminds me of Luigi Magngioni,
and much was made of the fact that about forty
thousand dollars at the get go had been funneled into
his commissary account. Same with Coburger. It's five figures we
now believe to be over thirty thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Are they lovelorn women? I mean, I don't understand who is.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Trying to support Coburger, But you're right, Annie Online, I
see it all the time. People actually angry when I
discuss his guilt. He pled guilty? Did I just dreamed
that whole thing? He pled guilty in court. Annie, No,
you are absolutely right.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
There's a group out there that actually call themselves the
pro Burgers, where they are advocating for his innocence, saying
that it's all a setup, that it's all a cover,
and I argue with them as well. You know, he
admitted to what he did, not in the way that
I think a lot of us hoped he would with
full allocution, but he did admit to butchering these four students.
(39:22):
So for them to now be sending him money still
advocating for him, they need there needs to be some
sort of recalibration here. It does not make any sense
what they're supporting.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Any Elise Also tonight there is an uproar and I
think it's justified regarding a lifetime movie about Brian Coburger's
butchering these four students, and one of the first people
to speak out is Kihlee Gonsovus's sister.
Speaker 14 (39:50):
Listen and I love to do iconic, Hi, so that's
not iconic. You're young, so maybe you don't know, but
I've looked at the past if you've done, and I
think you know, there is such a thing as defamation,
which can be crushing to a career, not that you
(40:13):
really have one, but if you'd like one, maybe you
should just think about it. Maybe you should just think
about if Kaylee was your sister. Maybe you should just
think about what you put out into the world, like
dancing around in between scenes. Maybe you should think about
(40:36):
the projects that you take on. Maybe you should think
that if you lay with dogs, you might get fleets.
So yeah, maybe you should just think you look like
you might be capable of it.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
There you see Kaylee's sister taking to the airways on
TikTok with outrage against this movie, but more so about
this Listen, why.
Speaker 15 (41:05):
This was even a concept that was pitched. I can't
begin to understand. I don't think anyone wants to see
a dramatized version of how these four young people were
killed in their home.
Speaker 8 (41:19):
Mind you, the.
Speaker 15 (41:20):
Trial for the murderer was only a few months ago.
I hope and pray Lifetime decides to pull this from
production and never continue, never ever, ever.
Speaker 16 (41:31):
If you sit back and you look at the loved
ones perspectives for just a second, because no one can
imagine what it's like to walk in their shoes, but
to see an entire movie being made about their lives,
casting actresses to play them and they're not even involved
in this, and they really have no say of stopping in.
Speaker 13 (41:53):
This just feels.
Speaker 16 (41:56):
Really unsettling.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Not only has Kaylee's sister spoken out, I gat about
not just the movie, but the actress and actresses doing
a bloody dance scene sequence where they actually are still
in costume covered in blood.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
What happened?
Speaker 4 (42:17):
So I think that's where the outrage is here. Everybody
expects that Lifetime and other networks will make movies and
react to real life cases, but the way in which
the actors are handling this, that's what's not landing.
Speaker 17 (42:32):
Well.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
Not only are they recreating dance scenes and little catchy
voiceovers to these moves between takes, but there's also been
times in which they are still in wardrobe, there is
blood on them, and they are offset in their trailer
or wherever they are, and they're doing these viral dance
moves and it is just classless, tactless, and of course
(42:54):
has upset a lot of the family members. Kaylee's sister,
as you mentioned, has been very outspoken about this. I
did reach out to her and chatted with her briefly
about it, because not only is she upset that they
didn't consult the family before moving forward with this film,
but also because of the behavior that is happening during filming,
just the disregard for the reality and the brutality of
(43:16):
this being a real life situation that this family went through,
you know too.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Chris McDonald and joining me director Cole Case Foundation, former
homicide detective who has been on the case from the beginning.
He and I going to the scene and investigating. You
can find him on YouTube at the interview room.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
Chris.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
Obviously, the guys at Lifetime and these actresses, actresses and
actress have never been to an actual crime scene, or
they would not be making light of it.
Speaker 18 (43:49):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And you know, let's remember when
you make a deal with the devil, he's going to
come collecting, and it looks like he's collecting right now,
like what Doc Morgan was talking about just a minute ago. Nancy,
Let's not forget that there's evidence of aspiration blood, meaning
while Brian Kolberger is stabbing these individuals so brutally, they
(44:13):
are trying to breathe, And this is what we're dealing with.
And if our culture thinks that's a good thing. We
need to take a hard look in the mirror.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
J Scott, you heard what Chris mcdunnag just said. He's
the expert. He's been to thousands of crime scenes. Obviously,
the actresses and actors and the producers at Lifetime have
never been to an actual crime scene. Could you explain
what this crime scene was really like, Joe Scott.
Speaker 9 (44:47):
As Chris had mentioned, there was aspiration of this blood
and kind of let me give you a for instance
for this. So if a lung is penetrated and airway
is penetrated, you aspirate that blood, which means you you
draw in and then you expiated nancy. So it's literally
blown out like this. So you can see the blood
(45:08):
deposited on various surfaces, and it looks different than say
standard like blood splatter where you see something driven or
struck into an area. It's kind of got an air
rated appearance to it. It's almost sometimes you'll even see
air bubbles in it. And that really lets you know
about these final moments that they have just screaming for life,
screaming for air because their brain is screaming out they
(45:31):
can no longer breathe, and that's the brutality that's involved,
and these people that live in this fantasy world like this,
that try to make a buck off of these poor people.
It's beyond the pale, Nancy. I wish, just for once
they could come and let me take them to an autopsy.
Let them see what that's like. Let them hear the
screams and the wails of the family. I bet they
(45:53):
won't want to do this again.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Scott, the brutality inflicted on Kelly gonna solve us alone.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
Can you describe what happened to her face?
Speaker 2 (46:03):
And now these actresses, this actress covered in blood is
doing a dance tik talk about it, still covered in
fake blood.
Speaker 8 (46:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (46:10):
He's taking a heavy steel blade and driving it through
her face. And I still contend that he took it
around because there were other abrasions on her face. Took
it around and began to pummel her with the handle
like this, and probably inverted the handle and began to
do this as well, driving it almost like the head
of a hanner into her face, over and over and
(46:31):
over again. Nancy, she had so many wounds that dig
this had so many wounds that they were cross communicating
and overlying one another. It was hard to delineate between
these wounds because of the inflicted trauma, where you've got
this overlapping that occurs that happens a lot in cases,
but here you had it happen with multiple people, just
(46:53):
Maddie as well, that happened with her as well, where
you had these cross communications of injury with her as well.
So this was a level of brutality that I think
that probably for those crime Sene investigators that were out
there that seen none of them had ever borne witness
to anything like this before.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Could you describe a scene of arterial bleeding such as
what Ethan suffered.
Speaker 9 (47:18):
Yeah, So every time a vessel is clipped and the
heart is still beating, and remember just because you have
a vessel that has been clipped in your neck doesn't
mean that you die. He eventually dies of what's referred
to as exanguination, which means you're bleeding out. The loss
of blood is incompatible with life, and so the blood
(47:39):
is literally depositing itself as it's spraying out from the injuries.
Every time that heart beats, it pulses, it contracts. That
blood is driven out through that open wound and it
deposits on any of the adjacent surfaces, and you could
see this. Sometimes you'll see it in kind of this
histamine like spray that kind of arcs over a wall.
(48:00):
I've seen this multiple times, it seems, and it almost
looks like a bloody rainbow, layer upon layer, and the
person's writhing in pain. And so that pattern is going
to change every time that blood spurts out. And that
would have told the tale with any of these investigators
that were out there, born witness to what Ethan had
had gone through. And here's the thing, Nancy, Nobody in
(48:22):
court's ever going to see that, are they He's going
to get there. This guy is going to be able
just to say, yeah, yeah, well I did it, But
no one's ever going to be able to see the
horror that he actually inflicted on these people. And that's
why he's got three hots in the cot. Now, doesn't he.
Speaker 19 (48:37):
Trying on a location of the emergency? You don't know
what what is there of the emergency? What is the
rest of the address. Okay, and there's the house for
(49:00):
an apartment? It's the house. Can you repeat theadress to
make sure that I have it right.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
I'll talk to you guys.
Speaker 2 (49:08):
We're we live at the lights cover next to them.
Speaker 19 (49:12):
I need someone to repeat theadress for raterification. The address
one one to two King Drugs.
Speaker 17 (49:18):
Hailey Hanson plays Kayleie Gonzovez in the new Lifetime movie
The Idaho Murders and uploads of video to TikTok dancing
with the actors playing Maddie Mogan and Brian Coberger as
all three are dressed in character. The video has upset
family and friends who see the portrayal as disrespectful. Hailey
Hansen took the video down.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Joining us now doctor John Delatorre. He is a licensed
psychologist and he specializes in forensic psychology. You have worked
with so many crime victims. You've got, on one hand,
Coburger refusing to pay restitution for the earns of his
victims that he butchered. Then you've got a Lifetime movie
(50:03):
where the actresses and actors are doing dance tiktoks covered
in fake blood. I mean, this family, these four families
have been through hell and back. They've got a prosecutor
that writes them a form letter explaining why, oh yeah,
if you want anything more, you Consie Civilly, why don't
(50:23):
you go hire a lawyer. Will it never end for
these people?
Speaker 15 (50:30):
No?
Speaker 20 (50:30):
Probably not. I mean when then all of these wounds
are going to be reopened once this movie actually comes out.
Because here's the nefarious thing. I highly doubt that this
movie is really going to take the crime victims right
where they're really going to look at the lives of
these young lives, These young, beautiful lives are really going
to be taken center stage. I imagine everything is going
(50:51):
to be focused on Brian Coberger because that's where people
think that they're interested live. But these four people deserve
to have a life. If they needed a movie, they
should be the focus, and instead they're probably going to
just be relegated to the four victims in Brian Coberger's massacre.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
You know what, delatory, who is going to profit off
this movie other than lifetime. If they were telling the
stories of the victims' families, they would probably profit. But
I doubt very seriously that that's the way it's going
to go.
Speaker 8 (51:26):
No, of course not.
Speaker 20 (51:27):
Of course, that's not going to be the thing because
in their mind, right, the producers of this movie, in
their mind, the idea is that we're going to bring
in all the eyeballs because people want to understand the
complexities of Brian Coberger. Brian Coberger is not complex. He's
not even that interesting.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
Complexities of Brian Coberger.
Speaker 20 (51:46):
I don't think he's I don't think he's complex. That's
what the producers think. I think and those people, people
like me that actually care about humanity, who actually have empathy,
want to hear the stories, want to hear the stories
of these victims. Want to hear about the lives of
these victims and the traumas that they had to face
and their family members have to experience. Now, we don't
(52:08):
want to see a movie about Brian Colberger. I know
I don't want to see it. I want to hear
about these stories of these young lives loss, these young
beautiful lives loss.
Speaker 13 (52:16):
That's what I.
Speaker 8 (52:17):
Want to hear.
Speaker 20 (52:17):
But producers don't think that people will watch that.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Chris mcdona, you and I have investigated and tried hundreds
thousands of cases at this point. Who wants to go
into the mind of Brian Coburger and do a dramatization
of him.
Speaker 18 (52:38):
That's a great question, Nancy, I mean, and isn't that
the big the big problem here in our society as
a whole in terms of, you know, the access to
social media where we get instant gratification and we think
in bits and bites anymore. But we forget this one
point and you just raised it a couple of minutes ago.
You know this guy sat in that room post mortem,
(53:01):
experimenting on those bodies. Why is that important for the
public to know? In terms of let's make a movie
about this. It's crazy. We've lost our minds.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
You know, Josh Cole's rude. I'm trying to think. I'm
an alternative. If you're like me, my mind is already
raced for about twenty steps. What's the best alternative? Is
there a way to throw out the play deal? I mean,
the Lifetime movie and the actresses dancing around covered in
(53:35):
blood is disgusting. I'm thinking about a way to make
actual change, to do something. The only thing I can
think of is to try to reneg the deal, to.
Speaker 3 (53:52):
Void the deal.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
A you can't have that prosecution's office in on it.
That that's impossible. Even if there aren't good lawyers within
the office, it's too late. They're tainted by their leader.
It'll have to be a fed or a special prosecutor.
But is there a hope. Is there a way Josh
to get the play deal voided?
Speaker 8 (54:17):
Yes, there is.
Speaker 7 (54:19):
There's two ways. You just mentioned one which is a
federal action, but there's a much more simple way, and
that is through victims' rights. Now, in Idaho, the prosecution
is required to go over and make sure that the
victims understand the plea agreement and that they've conferred with
(54:42):
the victims. And here it's very obvious that that process
did not happen in full because during the restitution hearing,
the prosecution admitted on the record that it was their
fault that the proper restitution terms were not in the
the agreement. So that tells me that the victims' rights
(55:03):
were violated. So the victims on their own, through their attorney,
can file a special action with the court demanding that
the pre agreement be unraveled and the case be set
for trial because of the material misrepresentations by the prosecution
and now by the defendant Coburger by not being honest
(55:24):
about his finances and not having good faith about paying
the restitution that they deserve.
Speaker 2 (55:29):
Guys, I don't always like what Col's root has to
say because he's typically defending someone, but He's right. There
could be a way around this deal with the devil?
But now will it happen? I am begging the FEDS
to intervene. I am begging a court to investigate this
(55:54):
and appoint an independent prosecutor. How can we stand by
and hear these families pain and do nothing? The current
US Attorney for the Idaho District is Bart M.
Speaker 3 (56:11):
Davis. Repeat, Bart M. Davis.
Speaker 2 (56:15):
The number two zero eight three three four one two
one one two zero eight three three four.
Speaker 3 (56:23):
One two one one.
Speaker 2 (56:26):
You have the knowledge, use it? Is there a way
out of this deal with the devil? The local prosecutor
struck with Brian Coburger. Can we get Coburger to trial? Now,
we remember an American hero Border Patrol Agent, Freddie Ortiz,
(56:46):
US Department Homeland Security, killed in the line of duty
after thirteen years serving and protecting. Leaving behind is grieving
mother American hero Patrol Agent Freddie is Nancy Grace signing
off goodbye friend.
Host
Nancy Grace
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