October 3, 2024 • 42 mins
As Judge John Judge reviewed the motion for a change of venue, he made the tough decision to move the trial to Ada County.
Now, the Idaho State Supreme Court has designated Boise, nearly 300 miles from the crime scene, as the new location. The Supreme Court cited the large jury pool, courtroom accommodations, and less saturation of prejudicial media as factors in their decision.
In accordance with Judge Judge’s wishes, the case was also remanded to Judge Steven Hippler.
Kohberger was secretly transferred to the Ada County Jail on an Idaho State Police plane. The Latah and Ada County sheriffs decided to work with State Police to make the transfer as safe and efficient as possible. The 6-hour drive from Moscow to Boise presented several potential complications, such as a blown tire or road closures.
The 2-hour early morning flight mitigated those concerns and went smoothly, according to Ada County Sheriff’s Captain Ryan Jensen.
Bryan Kohberger is being held in the maximum-security section of the Ada County Jail in one of its 88 solitary cells. He reportedly will not receive any additional security, following the same procedures used in recent high-profile cases. All inmates receive either a mainline, vegan, or kosher meal delivered to their cell three times a day.
Due to overcrowding, with the jail operating at or above 92% capacity, many inmates sleep on the floor. Inmates are allowed to purchase snacks and other small items from the commissary once a week.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Brian Stewart - Attorney at Parker & McConkie, Gabby Petito’s Family Attorney; Instagram: parkermcconkie
- Dr. Bethany Marshall – Psychoanalyst, Author – “Deal Breaker,” featured in hit show: “Paris in Love” on Peacock;, Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLive
- Chris McDonough – Director at the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective; Host of YouTube channel: “The Interview Room”
- IIrv Brandt – Senior Inspector, US Marshals Service International Investigations Branch; Chief Inspector, DOJ Office of International Affairs, US Embassy Kingston, Jamaica; Author: “SOLO SHOT: CURSE OF THE BLUE STONE” – AVAILABLE ON AMAZON IN JANUARY; ALSO “FLYING SOLO: Top of the World;” X: @JackSoloAuthor
- Joe Scott Morgan – Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, “Blood Beneath My Feet,” and Host: “Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;” Twitter/X: @JoScottForensic
- Andrea Cavallier - Senior Reporter, The Independent; X: @acavallierNYC IG: @acavallier FB: https://www.facebook.com/acavallier
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Brian Coberger charged in the
mirrors of four beautiful university students now in isolation, with
a sporty new look for trial, sending so called fans
(00:23):
over the edge. Who are these people? I Nancy Grace,
this is Crime Stories, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
And she was very frantic, and she was asking me
if I had talked to Kaylee. Katie's follows directly voicemail
circling Maddie.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Nobody's answering.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
It's ringing and ringing, ring, ringing.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
So we return on the TV and we see live
news coverage at Kids out Play. Hero Kaylee and Maddie
are both a quadrant of homicide.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
When I hear that parents being informed their child is dead,
not from a car accident, which is bad enough, not
some other type of accident, but murdered in their own
bed and their own home. You send your child away
to college with all these hopes and dreams, all your love,
(01:26):
all your energy, all your money, everything you've poured into
that child. To hear that, and now I've got to
hear the man charged in four murders a quadruple homicide,
has a quote sporty new look, can I see the mugshot?
(01:50):
Please look at this. That's right, Brian Coberger's new mugshot,
seemingly tantalizing his so called fans. How can there even
be fans of a guy charged in for murders and
brutal murders. Murder bad enough, But you have, for instance,
(02:13):
the DC snipers who shoot at a distance, the people
are never even the victims, not even real to them.
And then you have somebody like Coburger allegedly who up
close and personal reassures his victim I'm here to help,
and then guts them like an animal at the slaughterhouse.
(02:36):
Him a sporty new look, my rear end. But you've
got to see what his fans are saying. There are
a lot of Facebook pages and other pages devoted to Coburger.
Let's take a look at fan reactions to the mug shot.
(02:58):
This is real? Is this real? He's so handsome, hot,
like a movie star. Why is he not smiling? He
looks like a Zaddi, which is a hot man, charismatic
and the look of confidence. I'm not seeing any stress.
(03:22):
I can tell you one thing. I don't want them
on my jury. What he looks handsome, hot, like a
movie star. He's a zaddy. The look of confidence. I'm
not seeing any stress. I just happened to pick those comments.
They go on and on and on. I just has
(03:45):
anybody seen the crime scene photos that home on King's Road.
If you looked at it from the outside, there is
literally blood pouring down the side of the foundation. Oh okay,
(04:05):
joining me in an all star panel to help me
make sense of what I am hearing, but straight out
to renowned psychoanalysts joining us from Beverly Hills, author of
deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock, Doctor
Bethany Marshall. Doctor Bethany, I know you've done some very
intensive analysis with me on how women fall for somebody
(04:31):
like this. It's as old as Charles Manson and his followers,
people that fell in love and married. Oh, the Menendez
brothers who thought Ted Bondy was really cute. What is
wrong with these people? It only emboldens Coburger.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
You know, Nancy.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
What illuminated this topic the most to me was an
important prison study where the interviewed women who were in
love with famous in mates like Mendez Brothers, Richard Ramirez,
the Nightstalker, the Pillows strangler.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
And what they found were two things.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
One is that the women refused to put their thoughts
together about the crime. They had never read the men's
rap sheets. They insisted that they did not know the
realities of the case.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
On the other hand, many of these these.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Women actually took secret pleasure in the crime, thought that
the women had it coming to them, or that, in
the case of the Menendez brothers, that the parents deserve
to be shot. So these fanatics, Nancy, I would guess
that they're taking pleasure in the crime. They think those
kids had it coming to them. These are not nice people.
(05:46):
They're idealizing Coburger almost like one would idealize an evil
cult figure.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Let me go to Joseph Scott Morgan, joining US Professor
Forensics Jacksonal State University, author of Blood Beneath My Fate,
host of an you hit series Body Bags with Joe
Scott Morgan. Excuse me, Joseph Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, your
resume is as long as I seventy five. But what
(06:12):
matters to me the most is that you are a
death investigator and you have literally investigated thousands of death scenes. Okay,
you heard what doctor Bethany just said, did you know
Joe Scott? You probably don't because you're actually working and busy.
Did you know that there are multiple, for instance, Facebook
(06:34):
groups set up to support Brian Coberger, not support the
families of these victims. Not them, No, not the family
of Ethan Chapin, of Xanna Kunodle, Madison Morgan, Madison Morgan
and Kelly Gonsoalves. No, not to support them, but to
(06:58):
support Coberger.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
Let me ask you a question real quick, Nancy, did
you know that blood actually has an aroma of its
aunt and when you.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Walk intical or do you don't want to answer? Yes?
I maybe enough homicide sayings where just the smell is
it reeks?
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Yeah, it's it's a I've often described it as kind
of a sickly sweet metallic smell. And once that gets
into your brain, once you see physically see it, and
you experience that, uh, you know, just from a visual standpoint,
and you take you take measure of what happened in
these environments. I would say that these individuals that would
(07:42):
you know, bow at the feed of someone like this
or promote them in any way, have never heard the
screams of families they've never been witnessed to an absolute
slaughter before, because if they had, If they had, they
would not be so quick to support someone that is
even that it's even being implied that they may have
had something to do with this. This is beyond the pale.
(08:05):
It's disgusting on so many levels because they don't understand.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
What true pain is describe. And this is with the
backdrop of fan pages. That's what they are. Fan pages
set up to support brain Coburg. And don't worry, he'll
get his mits on a tablet, just like Merlin did
with his shirtless selfies. He's going to go online. He's
going to see this so called fandom, this fan support.
(08:35):
The reality of that crime scene should make everybody tuck
their tail between their legs and run for the heels.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
Explain, yeah, when you see the scene, and we will,
and those that will be present on this jury eventually
will and they take the measure of the horror of that.
I think that a lot of people are going to
look back retrospectively, maybe those that support an individual like
this and say, what in the hell was I thinking
(09:04):
at the time, Or maybe they don't, Maybe they don't
have a sense of that. But I tell you this,
when you take the full measure of this and what
havoc and hell was reaked upon these four innocent college
students not too dissimilar from these students that I have
here at Jacksonville State that I see every single day
with hopes and dreams, and they have an expectation of
(09:25):
peace and safety. I don't know that people will be
able to fully appreciate it, because it is going to
be the stuff of the worst horror movies we could ever.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
I think what doctor Bethany said is correct, and as
I say so often when I'm making a legal argument,
let's follow your comment through to its logical conclusion. Bethany
just told us Joe Scott that a lot of these
fangirls are not thinking through Oh he's so handsome, Oh
(09:55):
he's a zaty, he's a hotty, blah blah blah. Okay,
you bring him home, don't come to your house. Wait,
will you get that blank stare looking at you late
one night? So they're not thinking through this guy that
they are accolating online and crushing on to. They're not
thinking through who he really is and what he's really
(10:19):
accused of. Okay, everybody brace for impact. Not only has
Coburger sported a new look, but he's also demanding a
special wardrobe. Listen to Steve Gonsalves.
Speaker 6 (10:37):
This isn't a wall collar crime people.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
This is this is people. You work your.
Speaker 6 (10:42):
Whole life to get them to go to college. Everybody
has a dream of their children going to college. You
trust the community, you trust the school, You send them off,
and then they get killed while they're sleep that night.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
In their bags.
Speaker 6 (10:54):
And we're going to seat this guy like he just
like traded insider trading of his own company stocks.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
It's not white called the solve his family. Speaking to
our friend with us now, Chris McDonough. But listen, there's more.
Speaker 6 (11:07):
The person who did this crime looked at one of
the victims and said, I'm here to help you. If
that's not malice, that's the most type of evil that
you could ever hear of. That shouldn't be rewarded with
the suit and.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
A fresh haircut every time.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
That's wild.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
That's wild.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
We've been told that he does have shopples around his
knees or whatnot.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
But it's like, you know, that's I don't I don't
want to be hidden crime stories with Nancy Grace demanding
a special wardrobe, joining me renowned attorney Brian Stewart joining
us attorney at Parker Maconcole. Just so you know, the
(11:53):
Gabby Potito family lawyer, Brian, thank you for being with us.
You know, I would let a defendant, even though I
knew they were completely guilty, go into court wearing prison blues,
prison orange stripes, handcuffs, shackles, nothing in front of a jury.
(12:15):
I wouldn't even risk it with him walking down the
hallway in case a juror was wandering around. Why believe
it or not, you can get a reversal for that.
Probably not a reversal, but it's possible. And in a
death penalty case, yeah, you're looking at a reversal. So
I would keep in my office clothes and in different
(12:39):
sizes jackets, all blue jackets for the defendant to put
on if he didn't have street clothes to protect God
willing my guilty verdict. But really a whole new wardrobe.
What in the hay well.
Speaker 7 (12:56):
I think it is totally expected and normal. The defense
attorney would want Brian to be able to appear in
street clothes. It's the impression that he gives to the judge,
and then later the jury is really important and he
doesn't want to be dressed like a criminal or a prisoner.
And I would anticipate that the judge will grant that
(13:17):
motion and let him wear street clothes. The judge will
want to bend over backwards to be fair, to remove
bases for appeal, and so I would definitely expect him
to allow Brian to wear street clothes at trial, so
that doesn't seem strange.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I know, as you said, Brian, I guess you're on
a first name basis. Now that's right, you heard me. Ry,
the Idaho student murder suspect Brian Coberger, has petitioned the
judge for a courtroom wardrobe exception. Is bringing to mind
another defendant. Does anyone recall the name Anna Delvy aka
(13:57):
Anna Sorkin, the fake heiress that built friends and associates
out of well over a quarter million dollars? Well, she
threw a wrench at the judge listen.
Speaker 8 (14:10):
In a Seroken's legal team not only begged that Sarroken
be allowed to change out of her jail uniform for trial,
but even hired a professional stylist to dress the fake
aires Srokan wears designer dresses and suits for a majority
of the trial, but when her defense attorneys provide more
affordable outfits from H and M or Ann Taylor, Sorokin
(14:31):
throws a fit and refuses to attend court. To judge
order Sirrokan to appear for court anyway. The judge order
Soroken to appear for court anyway, and her white blouse
and black slack ensemble is added to the Instagram page
at Anadelphi court looks.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Does anybody see what's happening here? And a Sorkin, the
fake heiress who built friends and associates out of will
over a quarter million dollars who just was on Dancing
with the Stars and whined about it, saying, dance with
the Stars take advantage of her for fame. Girl, you
(15:06):
are not famous, you are infamous, that said the trend.
Everything she wore showed up on a highly traveled Instagram page,
and now coburger has legions of Facebook fans and more
joining me. Senior investigative reporter with The Independent, Andrea Cavalier, Andrea,
(15:31):
thank you for being with us. My ears are bleeding
from what I am hearing. Facebook support groups a special wardrobe,
a sporty new look that makes him look like a Zaddy.
Has the world turned upside down Cavalier. The man is
charged with four bloody knife murders.
Speaker 9 (15:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's disgusting. We get comments all the time
we post a picture. When we posted the mugshot, you know,
people went crazy. They loved the look and him showing
up in court going to you know, he wants to
be in street clothes, he wants to be in a suit.
It makes sense, you know, And we're still going to
be getting those comments about his look.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Joining me is now a longtime friend and colleague. You
can find him where he created the Cold Case Foundation,
former homicide detective and host of a YouTube channel where
I first found him on this case, the Interview Room
on YouTube. Chris McDonald, Chris, just hearing the Gonsalvast family
(16:41):
speaking is just makes me feel ill. And the fact
that they are having to fundraise money to get to
the trial a trial is going to last at least
six weeks, and support themselves to be there. I'm gonna
tell you a story I was just talking about this
(17:02):
morning when my fiance was murdered. This is everybody knows
that story. But this is I never thought of it
that much. But we would travel every day to the
trial over two hours, closer to three hours one way,
(17:22):
and my father, who worked for the railroad, and my mom,
who's the payroll clerk, would take off work. I mean,
I was completely out of it. I already dropped out
of school, and it was a blur to me. I
would be in the back seat. It's seriously a blur.
I would occasionally look up, I wouldn't know where we were,
(17:44):
and I'd just start crying again. I had to lay
down in the back seat. And we get to the courthouse.
I don't even remember going in. I can't real it''s
a horrible blur. And I'm thinking that was my fiance.
But now I have children. Imagine them having to raise money,
(18:07):
leave their home, leave their jobs, leave their friends, their
other family, and go to Boisey, find a place to live,
and go to that god forsaken courtroom every day to
look at crime stein photos of their child slaughtered. I mean,
did anyone think about that before they granted a change
(18:27):
of any.
Speaker 10 (18:28):
Apparently not, Nancy, And you know the depth of that pain,
as you know, and what the parents are going through
and I'm just not talking about you know, Christy and Steve.
I'm talking about all of the parents. There are eight
of them, and to see him, you know, propped up
(18:51):
in such a fashion that their existence doesn't matter. These
four victims, the court left them down, in my opinion,
in terms of not hearing the totality of the argument
that the state should have taken on and say, look,
this is a hardship on all of these people. Let's
(19:13):
consider that heavily. And you know what came out of
that hearing and what came out of that decision, judge
Judge said in the decision, we're not equipped to handle
this case. Oh my gosh, where were you for a
year and a half. You could have fixed it quickly,
(19:34):
and then the parents could have prepared.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
I understand, having tried capital cases before, the importance of
an impartial jury, and I'm going to get to that.
It's not just a factual issue. It's a legal issue.
And I've had to make very hard decisions when it
comes to changing any decisions I like. But I want
(19:57):
to talk about right now this is doing to the
victim's family. Then I'll get into the legalities and the
transport of Coburger. Doctor Bethany Marshall helped me out here.
I mean, even remembering that ride, which a lot of
it I don't remember, even remember that. Remembering that ride
(20:20):
to the courthouse for Keith murder trial is just very upsetting.
But then when I overlay what these families are going through,
it's their child. I mean, in my world, I made
it very clear to my husband, poor David, that once
they came, they are number one. They are the focus
my reason for living. And I'm sure these families felt
(20:43):
the same way. Did I tell you I met Ethan's
mom at the last crime com I thought I recognized her.
She was coming down a long hallway to come speak
to me. I was meeting with Johnny Depp's lawyer, and
she struck me because she's beautiful, but she seemed to
have an inner light about her. She just kind of
like glowed, and she is at a very I don't
(21:08):
say peaceful, but she's at a spot where she's trying
to help other people, or at least she was at
that juncture that could change through all of this. But
I imagine all of their will just being crushed out
of them just to get to the courthouse. On top
of everything else they've got to deal with.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
You know, Nancy, there is so much wrong about this
entire situation, how this court case is being managed. First
of all, it's traumatic enough just in and of itself
that they're going to have to look at those crime
scene photos. Did you know that one of the hallmarks
of post traumatic stress is avoiding seeing anything that reminds
you of the original crime.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
They're going to have to do quite the opposite.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
They're going to have to view the crime scene photos
day after day. They're going to have the stress of
financial difficulty. I had to raise money. There's something even
more sinister, Nancy, and that is that I believe Brian
Coberger is enjoying this, and the family is going to
have to watch him smile.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Did you notice that when he sits next to the.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Blonde attorney, he looks to her every once in a
while and he has a little smile, almost like he's
on a date. This purp loved being surrounded by crime.
He studied crime, he taught crime. He was obsessed with crime.
Now whereas he he's in a court of law, this
is his heyday, this is his payday. He is achieving
(22:37):
what he wanted. This is like being on a date
for him. Remember, Brian Coberger was kicked out of a
bar for approaching women. Women around him thought he was creepy.
He's not going to get kicked out of the courtroom, Nancy.
He can sit there in his street club, flirt with
(22:57):
the attorneys, and just enjoy the proceedings.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
That's what the family is going to have to witness.
Speaker 11 (23:03):
Brian Coberger's defense team conducted a phone survey of hundreds
of potential jurors in Leaytok County, asking them multiple questions
about their knowledge of the case. According to the defense team,
there is a bias against Coburger, revealed in answers to
questions such as what would happen if Coburger is not convicted?
Potential jurors in Laytok County answered that question with they'd
(23:26):
burn the courthouse down. Outrage would be a mild description.
They would probably find him and kill him, and there
would likely be a riot, and he wouldn't last long
outside because someone would do the good old boy justice
and finally riots parents would take care of him.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Now, let me remind everyone that those threats to kill
Coburger if there's not a guilty verdict were harvested by
his defense and an inappropriate juror polling phone call. That
a questionnaire of sorts that was sent to potential jurors,
(24:08):
and those are some of the answers. They say that
they got that the people of Moscow would storm the
courthouse like an angry mob, basically drag Coburger out and
kill him. Do I think that would happen? No, But
confronted with that evidence that was generated by the defense
(24:29):
in support of their change of venue motion, the judge
granted it. But before we put the cart before the horse,
before we get to the trial in Boise, the defendant,
Brian Coburger is in Boise. How did he get there? Listen?
Speaker 12 (24:47):
Coberger is secretly transferred to the Ada County Jail on
an Idaho State Police plane. Leta and Ada County sheriffs
say they decided to work with the state police to
make the transfer as safe and efficial as possible. The
six hour drive to Boise presented plenty of opportunity for
complications like a blown tire or road closures.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
The two hour early.
Speaker 12 (25:09):
Morning flight mitigated those concerns and went smoothly. According to
Ada County Sheriffs Captain Ryan Jensen.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Joining US now is an expert in prisoner location and transport.
IRV Brandt is with US former Senior Inspector US Marshall
Service International Investigations Branch I emphasize that for a reason.
Formerly with DOJ Office of International Affairs, he's been an
attache to other countries for the US, including Kingston, Jamaica
(25:41):
and more. Latest book Forever Solo, Night of the Dragon
in his Jack Solo series, j I wonder who that's
patterned after. IRV Brandt. Let me understand something. Did Brian
Coburger get flown to Boise and a private plane? What
(26:03):
did he get? A ginger ale and a bag of
peanuts to go with that? What did they ask him
be for chicken? Did he go in a private plane, Nancy?
Speaker 13 (26:11):
He went with a plane that was owned by the
state Police. And to answer your questions, no peanuts, no
in flight dinner, no in flight movies. He was shackled
leg irons, waist chains, probably body armor since they do
(26:32):
have some kinds of threats against them. But this is
the County's correctional Divisions work with the state Police and
the counting Correctional Divisions. Have what's called the Correctional Emergency
Response Team cert officers, and they're highly trained and this
(26:53):
type of prisoner movement. They'll also be there for the trial.
You may not see them, but they're they're they're protect everyone,
including the judge, the jurors, the witnesses, and they are
experts in this field. Change of venue is not uncommon
(27:15):
and they handle these types of matters all the time, you.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Know, doctor Bethany, I'm listening to IRV Brandt, a US
Marshall who's transported hardened criminals, murderers, dope lords, you name it,
all over the world and flown with them. What the
last thing we want is, for instance, a courthouse escape
or a transport escape. All you have to do is
(27:40):
go on to Google and look put in prisoner transport escape.
It just goes on and on. Page four, page five,
page six. It happens all the time, especially when they're
in a vehicle of any sort. Just through trickery, through force,
they get away. But I assume, doctor Bethany, that you
don't want them on a private I mean a commercial plane.
(28:02):
There's always a have you noticed people get lulled into
a false sense of complacency they're watching the in flight movie.
They're working, they're this, They're that. Why, Bethany, do they
in the movies always let the person go to the bathroom.
Don't they know something bad is going I'm like, wet yourself.
(28:24):
You're not going to the bathroom, don't care why.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
It's when the scary music starts playing. Yeah, you know, Nancy,
he's not going to.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
The bathroom on this plane. I can tell you that
much for sure. For what Earth Brant is saying, you know,
this security is so tight. Here's what I'm concerned about, though.
Whenever there's a prison break or somebody breaks out of
a prison van, you know, how it happens is that
they've seduced somebody in the prison system or on the
outside to help them. A famous case comes to mind
(28:55):
of a prison nurse who fell in love with an inmate.
They plotted together to have him escape, and it was
when he was being transferred to court. She brought guns
and she shot one of the officers that was putting
him into the car. That was a couple of decades ago.
I remember covering that story. So, Nancy, you know who
knows Brian Koberger. We have all these strange, weird fanatics,
(29:17):
who thinks he's handsome and he's like a rock star,
and now he's getting on a plane. I would just
be concerned about who's in his sphere, who's in his orbit,
who is he communicating with, who might want to collude
in some kind of a breakout of sorts.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
So Brandt, I guess you don't give the accused killer
a potty break.
Speaker 13 (29:39):
No, Nancy, you don't. And it doesn't matter how long
the flight is. Like like I said, I've come from
South America straight, you know, into New York, into the Northeast,
and you just have to deal with it. Marshall, I
have to go to the bathroom.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
We'll hold it.
Speaker 13 (29:58):
We'll be in New York in seven hours.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Open Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
A million people can tell me, don't let it consume you,
be patient, don't think about it, just you know, But
I am me, I am I can't. This is my daughter,
this is her best friend, this is two other people.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Kids, And.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
You can tell me till the cows come home. And
I can't stop just being consumed by it.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
I don't know how the parents were staying so strong.
Did you hear that doctor, Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining us
side of Beverly Hills author Now on Peacock that was
Christy Gounsov was speaking. Did you notice that she says,
this is my daughter. She's saying it was my daughter
(30:59):
in a way not acknowledging it to make my head.
Speaker 13 (31:02):
Hurt that.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Her beautiful girl is dead. You know, for the longest time,
I couldn't say Keith is dead dead, the dead word.
It's just too much. And now they're dealing with having
to raise money online to go live in Boise the
duration of the trial, to put with with Coburger being
a Zaddy online and having Facebook fans. I don't see
(31:27):
any Facebook fans for the victims. But did you catch.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
That what she just said, Yes, Nancy, I did notice
that she's speaking about her daughter like she's still alive,
but her daughter is alive.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
In her mind.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
She has a duty to her daughter. She wants to
find out what happened. She wants to bring justice for
her daughter. You know, I've said so many times on
this show, and we grieve. It's not just the loss
of the past, it's the loss of the future of
what you anticipated you would have with that person. She'll
never see her daughter getting married, She'll never have granddaughters
(32:02):
or grandsons. With this with her daughter, she'll never see
her get into her career. Her mind is struggling to
come to terms with the loss of that future that
she's been dreaming of from the day her daughter was born,
and now she's having to struggle to come up with
(32:24):
money to drive to court. Do you know the type
of fragility that introduces into all of us when we're
financially stressed, and this on top of a court case.
It's really a tragedy and a travesty that the location
was changed.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
On top of it all, Hey, listen, I understand why
the judge change the location. If hey, she the judge
does not change the location where there have been there's
been evidence of threats on the defendant in that location.
You're looking at a big fat reversal on appeal, which
means the family would go through all of this pain,
(33:03):
move to Boise for the duration, suffer, and then if
there is a conviction, you're looking at a reversal. So
I believe, as much as I don't like it, that
the judge did what he had to do. This had
to be moved, But do I have to hear about
(33:23):
Coburger's new look and his privileges behind bars? Listen?
Speaker 14 (33:29):
Brian Coburger is held in the maximum security section of
the Ada County Jail in one of its eighty eight
solitary cells. Coburger reportedly will not have any additional security,
following the same procedures for recent high profile cases. All
inmates receive a mainline vegan or kosher meal to their
cell three times a day. The jail has recently cut
(33:51):
down their menu as it operates at or above ninety
two percent capacity. Many inmates sleep on the floor due
to the overcrowding. Inmates are permitted to purchase snacks and
other small items from the commissary once a week.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
What he's got a private room? You don't even get
that in college at fancy, exclusive Ivy League colleges a
private room. Brian Stewart, high profile lawyer joining us out
of Idaho. Why does he get a private room? Why
don't I just book him at the RITZ? Well?
Speaker 7 (34:24):
Having a private room in jail is not necessarily a
good thing or an enjoyable thing. It makes it easier
for the jail, for sure, to maintain security for Colberger
and for the other inmates, and having him mixed with
other people in the population is just going to create
a problem for them and a security issue. So I
(34:45):
would imagine that it's mostly for the convenience of the
jail and the people who work.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
You know what, Brian Stewart, I say, why you win
so many cases? You totally maybe you should be on
Dancing with the Stars, not Anna Sorkin a Ka Delvy.
He's danced right around it. He has a private room.
And did you see what we were just showing. It's
kind of like their co op area where they're all
(35:10):
sitting around having snacks, A couple of people snoozing on
the side on sofa palets. I mean, and has anybody
beside me seen the commisary list. Let's see it control room,
let's se if you get put that up on the screen.
There you go, item bundles. What's that? Tuna shredded chicken,
(35:30):
salami sticks. I would like that. I would like somebody
to bring me some cheetos, some ramen, pretzels, chips, twigs,
Snickers okay now snickers, blueberry Danish. They could probably get
to eat it up. Let me please call on you again,
Professor of forensics. Can you remind me about how fresh
(35:56):
that crime scene was. It's brutal.
Speaker 5 (35:59):
The you're you know, when these images come out and
when we actually hear these crumpsing texts give testimony relative
to this, they're going to talk about, I don't know,
one of the terms that's probably going to come to
mind is like a super saturated mattress that's saturated with blood.
You're going to see blood deposition on the floor of
the walls. And not to mention the horror that will
(36:20):
be displayed on displayed on each on the bodies of
each one of these precious children, you know that are
now gone. And I take exception with what I've seen
in the news because relative to descriptions of these injuries,
they talk about, well, they were stabbed, and I know
that's very It has a certain economy to it when
(36:42):
you write it. But they're not just stabbed, Nancy, they're slashed.
As a matter of fact, this poor one, one child
had her hand cut all the way down to the
ligaments in her hand. So don't tell me about freshening up.
Don't tell me about you know, honey bun and all
these other things. It's absolutely disgusting, but the truth is
(37:04):
going to come out, and it's going to come out
a trial.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
I don't feel like we're even close to a trial date.
I know that when they do, it's going to be
far away, but I don't think they're close to setting it.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
And it eats me alive.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
We're trying to determine when the court date is going
to be. There's all over the map. The judge is
even thinking about a bifurcated trial where part of the
case is presented in May and the other part is
presented in September. Hey, judge, that's a bad idea. That
is unfair to the state because by the time the
defense starts to state, the jury will have forgotten everything
(37:40):
the state said back in May. Don't do that. That
said to Angia Cavalier, investigative reporter with The Independent, Andrew,
what more can you tell me about the preparations for trial?
Speaker 9 (37:54):
That's right at this moment. The trial is set to
start in jail. But there have been talks about, you know,
the judges thinking about you know, the jurors and the
families and you know, being away for three months during
the summer.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
It's possible it could start in May. It's possible it
could start in September.
Speaker 9 (38:14):
But as for preparations getting too Boise for these families,
it's there's always going to be something. There are airbnbs
and hotels, but they are filling up, I say, Joe.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Scott Morgan nodding his head, What do you mean, Joe Scott.
Speaker 5 (38:31):
Well, what I mean is that one of the rationales
for moving this case. It's not just security, but you know,
you think about the tainting of the pool, that there
would be, perhaps in some magical alternative universe, someone in
Ada County, Idaho that would not have heard of this trial. Nancy,
let me tell you something real quick. I just got
back from Crime con London in the UK. I was
(38:55):
there for sixteen days, traveling about the country and met
a lot of people. Guess what the number one case
was that they asked me about in London was It
was Idaho. They all wanted to know there's nowhere you
can go under the sun that someone has not heard
about this trial. So the idea that you know you're
(39:17):
going to find a group of people in Boise that
have not heard about this case is absolutely ridiculous to
my way of thinking, because it's everywhere, It's everywhere and
one other thing very quickly. I remember the Derek Chauvron case.
I covered it for eighteen straight days on air, every
single day, and I saw even those jurors coming in
(39:40):
for the voider. It was a circus. It was an
absolute circus with the news media there. The same thing
is going to happen here. You're going to see these
people coming in and out of the court at the
jury pool, and they're going to have an idea of
what they're faced with if they get on this jury.
So I don't know. I just don't understand the rationale.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Chris McDonough, How did it get so bass ackwards? From
Facebook fan pages supporting Coburger to private iPad vegan meals,
endless hours of visitation with his lawyer, a sporting new look,
a private wardrobe. How'd all this happen?
Speaker 4 (40:23):
Ye know?
Speaker 3 (40:24):
And answer?
Speaker 10 (40:24):
That is the million dollar question today for our society.
I think, you know, one of the biggest problems here,
in my opinion, is the threat level for Brian Koberger
actually went up because they have moved him to a
larger jail facility. They've thrown him in the hole ie
to shoe, and he's going to have to start thinking
(40:47):
about dodging socks full of bars of soap, because these
inmates are going to look at him and get cred
what they call kred, you know, credibility. If they can
beat him with those bars of soaps in those socks, then,
by golly, those Now those jailers have to be thinking
(41:07):
how do we keep them away from the main line,
just like this picture right here, how do we keep
them away.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
From this room?
Speaker 10 (41:15):
And that puts the officers at risk, That puts the
court at risk, because somebody right now is thinking about
Brian Cooberger, not only on the outside, but on the inside.
And that's why this guy is locked down with his honeybun,
you know, snack options.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
We wait for the judge to finally schedule the trial
so justice can unfold in a court of law. But
now we stop and remember an American hero, Deputy Shareff
Andrew Peerey, el Paso County Sheriffs, Colorado, shot and killed
in a line of duty, a US Army vet. Survived
(41:53):
by wife Megan and two children. American hero Deputy Shareff
Andrew Pieri. Thank you to all of our guests for
joining us, but especially to you for being with us.
Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Brian Coberger charged in the
mirrors of four beautiful university students now in isolation, with
a sporty new look for trial, sending so called fans
(00:23):
over the edge. Who are these people? I Nancy Grace,
this is Crime Stories, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
And she was very frantic, and she was asking me
if I had talked to Kaylee. Katie's follows directly voicemail
circling Maddie.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Nobody's answering.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
It's ringing and ringing, ring, ringing.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
So we return on the TV and we see live
news coverage at Kids out Play. Hero Kaylee and Maddie
are both a quadrant of homicide.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
When I hear that parents being informed their child is dead,
not from a car accident, which is bad enough, not
some other type of accident, but murdered in their own
bed and their own home. You send your child away
to college with all these hopes and dreams, all your love,
(01:26):
all your energy, all your money, everything you've poured into
that child. To hear that, and now I've got to
hear the man charged in four murders a quadruple homicide,
has a quote sporty new look, can I see the mugshot?
(01:50):
Please look at this. That's right, Brian Coberger's new mugshot,
seemingly tantalizing his so called fans. How can there even
be fans of a guy charged in for murders and
brutal murders. Murder bad enough, But you have, for instance,
(02:13):
the DC snipers who shoot at a distance, the people
are never even the victims, not even real to them.
And then you have somebody like Coburger allegedly who up
close and personal reassures his victim I'm here to help,
and then guts them like an animal at the slaughterhouse.
(02:36):
Him a sporty new look, my rear end. But you've
got to see what his fans are saying. There are
a lot of Facebook pages and other pages devoted to Coburger.
Let's take a look at fan reactions to the mug shot.
(02:58):
This is real? Is this real? He's so handsome, hot,
like a movie star. Why is he not smiling? He
looks like a Zaddi, which is a hot man, charismatic
and the look of confidence. I'm not seeing any stress.
(03:22):
I can tell you one thing. I don't want them
on my jury. What he looks handsome, hot, like a
movie star. He's a zaddy. The look of confidence. I'm
not seeing any stress. I just happened to pick those comments.
They go on and on and on. I just has
(03:45):
anybody seen the crime scene photos that home on King's Road.
If you looked at it from the outside, there is
literally blood pouring down the side of the foundation. Oh okay,
(04:05):
joining me in an all star panel to help me
make sense of what I am hearing, but straight out
to renowned psychoanalysts joining us from Beverly Hills, author of
deal Breaker. You can see her now on Peacock, Doctor
Bethany Marshall. Doctor Bethany, I know you've done some very
intensive analysis with me on how women fall for somebody
(04:31):
like this. It's as old as Charles Manson and his followers,
people that fell in love and married. Oh, the Menendez
brothers who thought Ted Bondy was really cute. What is
wrong with these people? It only emboldens Coburger.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
You know, Nancy.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
What illuminated this topic the most to me was an
important prison study where the interviewed women who were in
love with famous in mates like Mendez Brothers, Richard Ramirez,
the Nightstalker, the Pillows strangler.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
And what they found were two things.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
One is that the women refused to put their thoughts
together about the crime. They had never read the men's
rap sheets. They insisted that they did not know the
realities of the case.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
On the other hand, many of these these.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Women actually took secret pleasure in the crime, thought that
the women had it coming to them, or that, in
the case of the Menendez brothers, that the parents deserve
to be shot. So these fanatics, Nancy, I would guess
that they're taking pleasure in the crime. They think those
kids had it coming to them. These are not nice people.
(05:46):
They're idealizing Coburger almost like one would idealize an evil
cult figure.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Let me go to Joseph Scott Morgan, joining US Professor
Forensics Jacksonal State University, author of Blood Beneath My Fate,
host of an you hit series Body Bags with Joe
Scott Morgan. Excuse me, Joseph Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, your
resume is as long as I seventy five. But what
(06:12):
matters to me the most is that you are a
death investigator and you have literally investigated thousands of death scenes. Okay,
you heard what doctor Bethany just said, did you know
Joe Scott? You probably don't because you're actually working and busy.
Did you know that there are multiple, for instance, Facebook
(06:34):
groups set up to support Brian Coberger, not support the
families of these victims. Not them, No, not the family
of Ethan Chapin, of Xanna Kunodle, Madison Morgan, Madison Morgan
and Kelly Gonsoalves. No, not to support them, but to
(06:58):
support Coberger.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
Let me ask you a question real quick, Nancy, did
you know that blood actually has an aroma of its
aunt and when you.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Walk intical or do you don't want to answer? Yes?
I maybe enough homicide sayings where just the smell is
it reeks?
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Yeah, it's it's a I've often described it as kind
of a sickly sweet metallic smell. And once that gets
into your brain, once you see physically see it, and
you experience that, uh, you know, just from a visual standpoint,
and you take you take measure of what happened in
these environments. I would say that these individuals that would
(07:42):
you know, bow at the feed of someone like this
or promote them in any way, have never heard the
screams of families they've never been witnessed to an absolute
slaughter before, because if they had, If they had, they
would not be so quick to support someone that is
even that it's even being implied that they may have
had something to do with this. This is beyond the pale.
(08:05):
It's disgusting on so many levels because they don't understand.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
What true pain is describe. And this is with the
backdrop of fan pages. That's what they are. Fan pages
set up to support brain Coburg. And don't worry, he'll
get his mits on a tablet, just like Merlin did
with his shirtless selfies. He's going to go online. He's
going to see this so called fandom, this fan support.
(08:35):
The reality of that crime scene should make everybody tuck
their tail between their legs and run for the heels.
Speaker 5 (08:43):
Explain, yeah, when you see the scene, and we will,
and those that will be present on this jury eventually
will and they take the measure of the horror of that.
I think that a lot of people are going to
look back retrospectively, maybe those that support an individual like
this and say, what in the hell was I thinking
(09:04):
at the time, Or maybe they don't, Maybe they don't
have a sense of that. But I tell you this,
when you take the full measure of this and what
havoc and hell was reaked upon these four innocent college
students not too dissimilar from these students that I have
here at Jacksonville State that I see every single day
with hopes and dreams, and they have an expectation of
(09:25):
peace and safety. I don't know that people will be
able to fully appreciate it, because it is going to
be the stuff of the worst horror movies we could ever.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
I think what doctor Bethany said is correct, and as
I say so often when I'm making a legal argument,
let's follow your comment through to its logical conclusion. Bethany
just told us Joe Scott that a lot of these
fangirls are not thinking through Oh he's so handsome, Oh
(09:55):
he's a zaty, he's a hotty, blah blah blah. Okay,
you bring him home, don't come to your house. Wait,
will you get that blank stare looking at you late
one night? So they're not thinking through this guy that
they are accolating online and crushing on to. They're not
thinking through who he really is and what he's really
(10:19):
accused of. Okay, everybody brace for impact. Not only has
Coburger sported a new look, but he's also demanding a
special wardrobe. Listen to Steve Gonsalves.
Speaker 6 (10:37):
This isn't a wall collar crime people.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
This is this is people. You work your.
Speaker 6 (10:42):
Whole life to get them to go to college. Everybody
has a dream of their children going to college. You
trust the community, you trust the school, You send them off,
and then they get killed while they're sleep that night.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
In their bags.
Speaker 6 (10:54):
And we're going to seat this guy like he just
like traded insider trading of his own company stocks.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
It's not white called the solve his family. Speaking to
our friend with us now, Chris McDonough. But listen, there's more.
Speaker 6 (11:07):
The person who did this crime looked at one of
the victims and said, I'm here to help you. If
that's not malice, that's the most type of evil that
you could ever hear of. That shouldn't be rewarded with
the suit and.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
A fresh haircut every time.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
That's wild.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
That's wild.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
We've been told that he does have shopples around his
knees or whatnot.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
But it's like, you know, that's I don't I don't
want to be hidden crime stories with Nancy Grace demanding
a special wardrobe, joining me renowned attorney Brian Stewart joining
us attorney at Parker Maconcole. Just so you know, the
(11:53):
Gabby Potito family lawyer, Brian, thank you for being with us.
You know, I would let a defendant, even though I
knew they were completely guilty, go into court wearing prison blues,
prison orange stripes, handcuffs, shackles, nothing in front of a jury.
(12:15):
I wouldn't even risk it with him walking down the
hallway in case a juror was wandering around. Why believe
it or not, you can get a reversal for that.
Probably not a reversal, but it's possible. And in a
death penalty case, yeah, you're looking at a reversal. So
I would keep in my office clothes and in different
(12:39):
sizes jackets, all blue jackets for the defendant to put
on if he didn't have street clothes to protect God
willing my guilty verdict. But really a whole new wardrobe.
What in the hay well.
Speaker 7 (12:56):
I think it is totally expected and normal. The defense
attorney would want Brian to be able to appear in
street clothes. It's the impression that he gives to the judge,
and then later the jury is really important and he
doesn't want to be dressed like a criminal or a prisoner.
And I would anticipate that the judge will grant that
(13:17):
motion and let him wear street clothes. The judge will
want to bend over backwards to be fair, to remove
bases for appeal, and so I would definitely expect him
to allow Brian to wear street clothes at trial, so
that doesn't seem strange.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
I know, as you said, Brian, I guess you're on
a first name basis. Now that's right, you heard me. Ry,
the Idaho student murder suspect Brian Coberger, has petitioned the
judge for a courtroom wardrobe exception. Is bringing to mind
another defendant. Does anyone recall the name Anna Delvy aka
(13:57):
Anna Sorkin, the fake heiress that built friends and associates
out of well over a quarter million dollars? Well, she
threw a wrench at the judge listen.
Speaker 8 (14:10):
In a Seroken's legal team not only begged that Sarroken
be allowed to change out of her jail uniform for trial,
but even hired a professional stylist to dress the fake
aires Srokan wears designer dresses and suits for a majority
of the trial, but when her defense attorneys provide more
affordable outfits from H and M or Ann Taylor, Sorokin
(14:31):
throws a fit and refuses to attend court. To judge
order Sirrokan to appear for court anyway. The judge order
Soroken to appear for court anyway, and her white blouse
and black slack ensemble is added to the Instagram page
at Anadelphi court looks.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Does anybody see what's happening here? And a Sorkin, the
fake heiress who built friends and associates out of will
over a quarter million dollars who just was on Dancing
with the Stars and whined about it, saying, dance with
the Stars take advantage of her for fame. Girl, you
(15:06):
are not famous, you are infamous, that said the trend.
Everything she wore showed up on a highly traveled Instagram page,
and now coburger has legions of Facebook fans and more
joining me. Senior investigative reporter with The Independent, Andrea Cavalier, Andrea,
(15:31):
thank you for being with us. My ears are bleeding
from what I am hearing. Facebook support groups a special wardrobe,
a sporty new look that makes him look like a Zaddy.
Has the world turned upside down Cavalier. The man is
charged with four bloody knife murders.
Speaker 9 (15:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's disgusting. We get comments all the time
we post a picture. When we posted the mugshot, you know,
people went crazy. They loved the look and him showing
up in court going to you know, he wants to
be in street clothes, he wants to be in a suit.
It makes sense, you know, And we're still going to
be getting those comments about his look.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Joining me is now a longtime friend and colleague. You
can find him where he created the Cold Case Foundation,
former homicide detective and host of a YouTube channel where
I first found him on this case, the Interview Room
on YouTube. Chris McDonald, Chris, just hearing the Gonsalvast family
(16:41):
speaking is just makes me feel ill. And the fact
that they are having to fundraise money to get to
the trial a trial is going to last at least
six weeks, and support themselves to be there. I'm gonna
tell you a story I was just talking about this
(17:02):
morning when my fiance was murdered. This is everybody knows
that story. But this is I never thought of it
that much. But we would travel every day to the
trial over two hours, closer to three hours one way,
(17:22):
and my father, who worked for the railroad, and my mom,
who's the payroll clerk, would take off work. I mean,
I was completely out of it. I already dropped out
of school, and it was a blur to me. I
would be in the back seat. It's seriously a blur.
I would occasionally look up, I wouldn't know where we were,
(17:44):
and I'd just start crying again. I had to lay
down in the back seat. And we get to the courthouse.
I don't even remember going in. I can't real it''s
a horrible blur. And I'm thinking that was my fiance.
But now I have children. Imagine them having to raise money,
(18:07):
leave their home, leave their jobs, leave their friends, their
other family, and go to Boisey, find a place to live,
and go to that god forsaken courtroom every day to
look at crime stein photos of their child slaughtered. I mean,
did anyone think about that before they granted a change
(18:27):
of any.
Speaker 10 (18:28):
Apparently not, Nancy, And you know the depth of that pain,
as you know, and what the parents are going through
and I'm just not talking about you know, Christy and Steve.
I'm talking about all of the parents. There are eight
of them, and to see him, you know, propped up
(18:51):
in such a fashion that their existence doesn't matter. These
four victims, the court left them down, in my opinion,
in terms of not hearing the totality of the argument
that the state should have taken on and say, look,
this is a hardship on all of these people. Let's
(19:13):
consider that heavily. And you know what came out of
that hearing and what came out of that decision, judge
Judge said in the decision, we're not equipped to handle
this case. Oh my gosh, where were you for a
year and a half. You could have fixed it quickly,
(19:34):
and then the parents could have prepared.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
I understand, having tried capital cases before, the importance of
an impartial jury, and I'm going to get to that.
It's not just a factual issue. It's a legal issue.
And I've had to make very hard decisions when it
comes to changing any decisions I like. But I want
(19:57):
to talk about right now this is doing to the
victim's family. Then I'll get into the legalities and the
transport of Coburger. Doctor Bethany Marshall helped me out here.
I mean, even remembering that ride, which a lot of
it I don't remember, even remember that. Remembering that ride
(20:20):
to the courthouse for Keith murder trial is just very upsetting.
But then when I overlay what these families are going through,
it's their child. I mean, in my world, I made
it very clear to my husband, poor David, that once
they came, they are number one. They are the focus
my reason for living. And I'm sure these families felt
(20:43):
the same way. Did I tell you I met Ethan's
mom at the last crime com I thought I recognized her.
She was coming down a long hallway to come speak
to me. I was meeting with Johnny Depp's lawyer, and
she struck me because she's beautiful, but she seemed to
have an inner light about her. She just kind of
like glowed, and she is at a very I don't
(21:08):
say peaceful, but she's at a spot where she's trying
to help other people, or at least she was at
that juncture that could change through all of this. But
I imagine all of their will just being crushed out
of them just to get to the courthouse. On top
of everything else they've got to deal with.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
You know, Nancy, there is so much wrong about this
entire situation, how this court case is being managed. First
of all, it's traumatic enough just in and of itself
that they're going to have to look at those crime
scene photos. Did you know that one of the hallmarks
of post traumatic stress is avoiding seeing anything that reminds
you of the original crime.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
They're going to have to do quite the opposite.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
They're going to have to view the crime scene photos
day after day. They're going to have the stress of
financial difficulty. I had to raise money. There's something even
more sinister, Nancy, and that is that I believe Brian
Coberger is enjoying this, and the family is going to
have to watch him smile.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Did you notice that when he sits next to the.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Blonde attorney, he looks to her every once in a
while and he has a little smile, almost like he's
on a date. This purp loved being surrounded by crime.
He studied crime, he taught crime. He was obsessed with crime.
Now whereas he he's in a court of law, this
is his heyday, this is his payday. He is achieving
(22:37):
what he wanted. This is like being on a date
for him. Remember, Brian Coberger was kicked out of a
bar for approaching women. Women around him thought he was creepy.
He's not going to get kicked out of the courtroom, Nancy.
He can sit there in his street club, flirt with
(22:57):
the attorneys, and just enjoy the proceedings.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
That's what the family is going to have to witness.
Speaker 11 (23:03):
Brian Coberger's defense team conducted a phone survey of hundreds
of potential jurors in Leaytok County, asking them multiple questions
about their knowledge of the case. According to the defense team,
there is a bias against Coburger, revealed in answers to
questions such as what would happen if Coburger is not convicted?
Potential jurors in Laytok County answered that question with they'd
(23:26):
burn the courthouse down. Outrage would be a mild description.
They would probably find him and kill him, and there
would likely be a riot, and he wouldn't last long
outside because someone would do the good old boy justice
and finally riots parents would take care of him.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Now, let me remind everyone that those threats to kill
Coburger if there's not a guilty verdict were harvested by
his defense and an inappropriate juror polling phone call. That
a questionnaire of sorts that was sent to potential jurors,
(24:08):
and those are some of the answers. They say that
they got that the people of Moscow would storm the
courthouse like an angry mob, basically drag Coburger out and
kill him. Do I think that would happen? No, But
confronted with that evidence that was generated by the defense
(24:29):
in support of their change of venue motion, the judge
granted it. But before we put the cart before the horse,
before we get to the trial in Boise, the defendant,
Brian Coburger is in Boise. How did he get there? Listen?
Speaker 12 (24:47):
Coberger is secretly transferred to the Ada County Jail on
an Idaho State Police plane. Leta and Ada County sheriffs
say they decided to work with the state police to
make the transfer as safe and efficial as possible. The
six hour drive to Boise presented plenty of opportunity for
complications like a blown tire or road closures.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
The two hour early.
Speaker 12 (25:09):
Morning flight mitigated those concerns and went smoothly. According to
Ada County Sheriffs Captain Ryan Jensen.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Joining US now is an expert in prisoner location and transport.
IRV Brandt is with US former Senior Inspector US Marshall
Service International Investigations Branch I emphasize that for a reason.
Formerly with DOJ Office of International Affairs, he's been an
attache to other countries for the US, including Kingston, Jamaica
(25:41):
and more. Latest book Forever Solo, Night of the Dragon
in his Jack Solo series, j I wonder who that's
patterned after. IRV Brandt. Let me understand something. Did Brian
Coburger get flown to Boise and a private plane? What
(26:03):
did he get? A ginger ale and a bag of
peanuts to go with that? What did they ask him
be for chicken? Did he go in a private plane, Nancy?
Speaker 13 (26:11):
He went with a plane that was owned by the
state Police. And to answer your questions, no peanuts, no
in flight dinner, no in flight movies. He was shackled
leg irons, waist chains, probably body armor since they do
(26:32):
have some kinds of threats against them. But this is
the County's correctional Divisions work with the state Police and
the counting Correctional Divisions. Have what's called the Correctional Emergency
Response Team cert officers, and they're highly trained and this
(26:53):
type of prisoner movement. They'll also be there for the trial.
You may not see them, but they're they're they're protect everyone,
including the judge, the jurors, the witnesses, and they are
experts in this field. Change of venue is not uncommon
(27:15):
and they handle these types of matters all the time, you.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Know, doctor Bethany, I'm listening to IRV Brandt, a US
Marshall who's transported hardened criminals, murderers, dope lords, you name it,
all over the world and flown with them. What the
last thing we want is, for instance, a courthouse escape
or a transport escape. All you have to do is
(27:40):
go on to Google and look put in prisoner transport escape.
It just goes on and on. Page four, page five,
page six. It happens all the time, especially when they're
in a vehicle of any sort. Just through trickery, through force,
they get away. But I assume, doctor Bethany, that you
don't want them on a private I mean a commercial plane.
(28:02):
There's always a have you noticed people get lulled into
a false sense of complacency they're watching the in flight movie.
They're working, they're this, They're that. Why, Bethany, do they
in the movies always let the person go to the bathroom.
Don't they know something bad is going I'm like, wet yourself.
(28:24):
You're not going to the bathroom, don't care why.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
It's when the scary music starts playing. Yeah, you know, Nancy,
he's not going to.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
The bathroom on this plane. I can tell you that
much for sure. For what Earth Brant is saying, you know,
this security is so tight. Here's what I'm concerned about, though.
Whenever there's a prison break or somebody breaks out of
a prison van, you know, how it happens is that
they've seduced somebody in the prison system or on the
outside to help them. A famous case comes to mind
(28:55):
of a prison nurse who fell in love with an inmate.
They plotted together to have him escape, and it was
when he was being transferred to court. She brought guns
and she shot one of the officers that was putting
him into the car. That was a couple of decades ago.
I remember covering that story. So, Nancy, you know who
knows Brian Koberger. We have all these strange, weird fanatics,
(29:17):
who thinks he's handsome and he's like a rock star,
and now he's getting on a plane. I would just
be concerned about who's in his sphere, who's in his orbit,
who is he communicating with, who might want to collude
in some kind of a breakout of sorts.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
So Brandt, I guess you don't give the accused killer
a potty break.
Speaker 13 (29:39):
No, Nancy, you don't. And it doesn't matter how long
the flight is. Like like I said, I've come from
South America straight, you know, into New York, into the Northeast,
and you just have to deal with it. Marshall, I
have to go to the bathroom.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
We'll hold it.
Speaker 13 (29:58):
We'll be in New York in seven hours.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Open Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
A million people can tell me, don't let it consume you,
be patient, don't think about it, just you know, But
I am me, I am I can't. This is my daughter,
this is her best friend, this is two other people.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Kids, And.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
You can tell me till the cows come home. And
I can't stop just being consumed by it.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
I don't know how the parents were staying so strong.
Did you hear that doctor, Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining us
side of Beverly Hills author Now on Peacock that was
Christy Gounsov was speaking. Did you notice that she says,
this is my daughter. She's saying it was my daughter
(30:59):
in a way not acknowledging it to make my head.
Speaker 13 (31:02):
Hurt that.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Her beautiful girl is dead. You know, for the longest time,
I couldn't say Keith is dead dead, the dead word.
It's just too much. And now they're dealing with having
to raise money online to go live in Boise the
duration of the trial, to put with with Coburger being
a Zaddy online and having Facebook fans. I don't see
(31:27):
any Facebook fans for the victims. But did you catch.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
That what she just said, Yes, Nancy, I did notice
that she's speaking about her daughter like she's still alive,
but her daughter is alive.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
In her mind.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
She has a duty to her daughter. She wants to
find out what happened. She wants to bring justice for
her daughter. You know, I've said so many times on
this show, and we grieve. It's not just the loss
of the past, it's the loss of the future of
what you anticipated you would have with that person. She'll
never see her daughter getting married, She'll never have granddaughters
(32:02):
or grandsons. With this with her daughter, she'll never see
her get into her career. Her mind is struggling to
come to terms with the loss of that future that
she's been dreaming of from the day her daughter was born,
and now she's having to struggle to come up with
(32:24):
money to drive to court. Do you know the type
of fragility that introduces into all of us when we're
financially stressed, and this on top of a court case.
It's really a tragedy and a travesty that the location
was changed.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
On top of it all, Hey, listen, I understand why
the judge change the location. If hey, she the judge
does not change the location where there have been there's
been evidence of threats on the defendant in that location.
You're looking at a big fat reversal on appeal, which
means the family would go through all of this pain,
(33:03):
move to Boise for the duration, suffer, and then if
there is a conviction, you're looking at a reversal. So
I believe, as much as I don't like it, that
the judge did what he had to do. This had
to be moved, But do I have to hear about
(33:23):
Coburger's new look and his privileges behind bars? Listen?
Speaker 14 (33:29):
Brian Coburger is held in the maximum security section of
the Ada County Jail in one of its eighty eight
solitary cells. Coburger reportedly will not have any additional security,
following the same procedures for recent high profile cases. All
inmates receive a mainline vegan or kosher meal to their
cell three times a day. The jail has recently cut
(33:51):
down their menu as it operates at or above ninety
two percent capacity. Many inmates sleep on the floor due
to the overcrowding. Inmates are permitted to purchase snacks and
other small items from the commissary once a week.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
What he's got a private room? You don't even get
that in college at fancy, exclusive Ivy League colleges a
private room. Brian Stewart, high profile lawyer joining us out
of Idaho. Why does he get a private room? Why
don't I just book him at the RITZ? Well?
Speaker 7 (34:24):
Having a private room in jail is not necessarily a
good thing or an enjoyable thing. It makes it easier
for the jail, for sure, to maintain security for Colberger
and for the other inmates, and having him mixed with
other people in the population is just going to create
a problem for them and a security issue. So I
(34:45):
would imagine that it's mostly for the convenience of the
jail and the people who work.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
You know what, Brian Stewart, I say, why you win
so many cases? You totally maybe you should be on
Dancing with the Stars, not Anna Sorkin a Ka Delvy.
He's danced right around it. He has a private room.
And did you see what we were just showing. It's
kind of like their co op area where they're all
(35:10):
sitting around having snacks, A couple of people snoozing on
the side on sofa palets. I mean, and has anybody
beside me seen the commisary list. Let's see it control room,
let's se if you get put that up on the screen.
There you go, item bundles. What's that? Tuna shredded chicken,
(35:30):
salami sticks. I would like that. I would like somebody
to bring me some cheetos, some ramen, pretzels, chips, twigs,
Snickers okay now snickers, blueberry Danish. They could probably get
to eat it up. Let me please call on you again,
Professor of forensics. Can you remind me about how fresh
(35:56):
that crime scene was. It's brutal.
Speaker 5 (35:59):
The you're you know, when these images come out and
when we actually hear these crumpsing texts give testimony relative
to this, they're going to talk about, I don't know,
one of the terms that's probably going to come to
mind is like a super saturated mattress that's saturated with blood.
You're going to see blood deposition on the floor of
the walls. And not to mention the horror that will
(36:20):
be displayed on displayed on each on the bodies of
each one of these precious children, you know that are
now gone. And I take exception with what I've seen
in the news because relative to descriptions of these injuries,
they talk about, well, they were stabbed, and I know
that's very It has a certain economy to it when
(36:42):
you write it. But they're not just stabbed, Nancy, they're slashed.
As a matter of fact, this poor one, one child
had her hand cut all the way down to the
ligaments in her hand. So don't tell me about freshening up.
Don't tell me about you know, honey bun and all
these other things. It's absolutely disgusting, but the truth is
(37:04):
going to come out, and it's going to come out
a trial.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
I don't feel like we're even close to a trial date.
I know that when they do, it's going to be
far away, but I don't think they're close to setting it.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
And it eats me alive.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
We're trying to determine when the court date is going
to be. There's all over the map. The judge is
even thinking about a bifurcated trial where part of the
case is presented in May and the other part is
presented in September. Hey, judge, that's a bad idea. That
is unfair to the state because by the time the
defense starts to state, the jury will have forgotten everything
(37:40):
the state said back in May. Don't do that. That
said to Angia Cavalier, investigative reporter with The Independent, Andrew,
what more can you tell me about the preparations for trial?
Speaker 9 (37:54):
That's right at this moment. The trial is set to
start in jail. But there have been talks about, you know,
the judges thinking about you know, the jurors and the
families and you know, being away for three months during
the summer.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
It's possible it could start in May. It's possible it
could start in September.
Speaker 9 (38:14):
But as for preparations getting too Boise for these families,
it's there's always going to be something. There are airbnbs
and hotels, but they are filling up, I say, Joe.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Scott Morgan nodding his head, What do you mean, Joe Scott.
Speaker 5 (38:31):
Well, what I mean is that one of the rationales
for moving this case. It's not just security, but you know,
you think about the tainting of the pool, that there
would be, perhaps in some magical alternative universe, someone in
Ada County, Idaho that would not have heard of this trial. Nancy,
let me tell you something real quick. I just got
back from Crime con London in the UK. I was
(38:55):
there for sixteen days, traveling about the country and met
a lot of people. Guess what the number one case
was that they asked me about in London was It
was Idaho. They all wanted to know there's nowhere you
can go under the sun that someone has not heard
about this trial. So the idea that you know you're
(39:17):
going to find a group of people in Boise that
have not heard about this case is absolutely ridiculous to
my way of thinking, because it's everywhere, It's everywhere and
one other thing very quickly. I remember the Derek Chauvron case.
I covered it for eighteen straight days on air, every
single day, and I saw even those jurors coming in
(39:40):
for the voider. It was a circus. It was an
absolute circus with the news media there. The same thing
is going to happen here. You're going to see these
people coming in and out of the court at the
jury pool, and they're going to have an idea of
what they're faced with if they get on this jury.
So I don't know. I just don't understand the rationale.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Chris McDonough, How did it get so bass ackwards? From
Facebook fan pages supporting Coburger to private iPad vegan meals,
endless hours of visitation with his lawyer, a sporting new look,
a private wardrobe. How'd all this happen?
Speaker 4 (40:23):
Ye know?
Speaker 3 (40:24):
And answer?
Speaker 10 (40:24):
That is the million dollar question today for our society.
I think, you know, one of the biggest problems here,
in my opinion, is the threat level for Brian Koberger
actually went up because they have moved him to a
larger jail facility. They've thrown him in the hole ie
to shoe, and he's going to have to start thinking
(40:47):
about dodging socks full of bars of soap, because these
inmates are going to look at him and get cred
what they call kred, you know, credibility. If they can
beat him with those bars of soaps in those socks, then,
by golly, those Now those jailers have to be thinking
(41:07):
how do we keep them away from the main line,
just like this picture right here, how do we keep
them away.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
From this room?
Speaker 10 (41:15):
And that puts the officers at risk, That puts the
court at risk, because somebody right now is thinking about
Brian Cooberger, not only on the outside, but on the inside.
And that's why this guy is locked down with his honeybun,
you know, snack options.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
We wait for the judge to finally schedule the trial
so justice can unfold in a court of law. But
now we stop and remember an American hero, Deputy Shareff
Andrew Peerey, el Paso County Sheriffs, Colorado, shot and killed
in a line of duty, a US Army vet. Survived
(41:53):
by wife Megan and two children. American hero Deputy Shareff
Andrew Pieri. Thank you to all of our guests for
joining us, but especially to you for being with us.
Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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