August 12, 2025 • 48 mins
Bryan Kohberger complains inmates are harassing him through vents in the prison. He was moved to solitary confinement, according to the Idaho Department of Corrections, housed in restrictive housing of the J Block in the Idaho Maximum Security Institution. Inmates live in single-person cells, provided a shower every other day and allowed one hour of outdoor recreation daily, according to IDOC.
As more evidence is release, we see more than 200 crime scene photos and videos which show how Kohberger prepared and the brutality of the murders. One photo show a blurred, bloodY bed. Another shows a full hand print outline on a window.
We also learn, the mother of one of the four victims received a threatening text message during Kohberger 's sentencing.
Joining Nancy Grace today,
- Philip Dubé - Former Court-Appointed Counsel, Los Angeles County Public Defenders: Criminal & Constitutional Law, Forensics & Mental Health Advocacy
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker: When to work on a relationship and when to walk away” Also featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock, www.drbethanymarshall.com , Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive
- Chris McDonough - Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective, Worked over 300 Homicides in 25 year career, Trained the first Native American Homicide Task Force; & Host of YouTube channel, "The Interview Room" www.coldcasefoundation.org/chris-mcdonough
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic
- Susan Hendricks- Journalist, Author: “Down the Hill: My Descent into the Double Murder in Delphi", IG @susan_hendricks X @SusanHendicks
- Dave Mack - Crime Stories Investigative Reporter
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Brian Coburger stressed behind bars, Really inmates constantly harassing Coburger
through the air vnce boohoo, as we learn who Coburger
and his fleet of attorneys planned to blame.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
For the murders. At trial, This.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
As we learned the FEDS could seek the death penalty.
Even now, I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Chilling crime scene photos released in the Brian Coberger case,
detailing the tragic murders of the four University of Idaho
students killed in the attack.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
The irony that now we are learning about the true
brutality of these four murders after the deal is done.
This as we are learning Brian Coburger is stressed behind bars,
inmates constantly harassing.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Him through the air vents and more.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
But before I get to those facts, I'm going to
go straight out to renown psycho analyst doctor Bethany Marshall
joining us out.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Of Beverly Hills, author of deal Breaker.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
You can see her now on Peacock and you can
find her at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall
I'm just a trial lawyer. You're the shrink. This is
completely mass awkwards. He's stressed behind bars, and he's whining
because inmates are whispering.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
To him and yelling at him through the air vents.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
I mean, I'm not exactly sure what a narcissist is
when the whole world revolves.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Around me, me me, me, me me, me, me me me,
but I think that would be him.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Associate path is a narcissist on steroids. It is the
same disorder, Nancy. It's a spectrum disorder like narcissist lack empathy.
Sociopaths have no feeling for other human beings or even
for themselves, Nancy. So this whole idea that he's stressed
behind bars could mean only one of two things. One
(02:14):
is that he's just manipulating the judge. That's it, because
I don't think he feels much at all. The other
is that maybe he's getting some kind of pleasure from
all the attention he's getting and he just wants to
talk about the Other is that he probably has not
received any consequences for his actions thus far in lives,
so the fact that he's actually having consequences is surprising.
(02:39):
To him, and so he has to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
You know, I'm learning so much as all pouring out
now that the deal is done, I'll tell you is
probably stressed, which I'm going to get to and just
to mow was Susan hendrickson Dave's Mac the people that
Brian Kiberger was planning to blame at trial forget about
him being not guilty.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
According to him, of course, which is a lie.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
But he was actually going to compound by blaming somebody
else for the murders, knowing full well he's guilty.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
And I don't mean just some.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Hey there was another burglary down the street the week before. No,
he was actually going to blame a specific friend of
the victims, and that friend of the victims would have
those allegations hanging over his head the rest of his life,
even though Coberger knew he was guilty. That takes a
certain mindset. You're not just claiming I'm guilty. Don't see
(03:38):
me to the death penalty, You're.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Actually blaming another person.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And Philip Dbay without going to deathcom four in the
law Guy's Doby, veteran trial lawyer joining us out of
the LA jurisdiction debate. For a defendant to blame a
third person is the sod some other dude did it.
(04:03):
You can't just say, hey, crime statistics are up in
this neighborhood with burglary, so is one of them. To
bring in some other dude did it. You have to
have an actual dude. You have to have It can't
be an amorphous maybe this person did it. Maybe you
have to have somebody you're going to blame under the law,
(04:24):
that's the law in every jurisdiction. So Coburger's defense had
actually picked out somebody to blame.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
It's not enough.
Speaker 6 (04:32):
You have to show more than a means motive, an opportunity.
You have to show that there is corroborating evidence linking
that alternate perpetrator if you go to the crime itself,
and that's why you have the judges steps in and says, look,
if you can't link the two, then you're really asking
a jury to find unreasonable doubt.
Speaker 7 (04:51):
As to who the real perpetrator is. And the judge
will step in and show you.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
What I'm taking that to Maine that you're trying to say, yes,
the defendant must point to a specific person, and in
this case, the defense had created a lot of links
between that person and the victims, knowing full well and
(05:15):
ultimately pleading guilty to the murders.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
I mean doctor Bethany Marshall. Back to me me me me, me,
me me me.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Brian Coberger, who is stressed behind bars, he actually had
escapegoat that he was willing to take down for that
person forever.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
To have that dark cloud over them.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Hey, maybe he did it for the rest of his life,
for the rest of his family's lives, so Coburger could
walk free. That's a whole another layer of evil right there.
Not just I didn't do it, believe me, jurie, but
he did it.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Blame him. That's pretty bold, wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
You start ancb Oh, yeah, Nancy, you referenced narcissism early.
You know, the primary feature again is lack of empathy
towards others. The second feature of malignant narcissism is destructiveness.
People who are malignant narcissists want to take everybody down
around them. The destruction could be committing homicide, or for
(06:17):
anybody who's married to a malignant narcissist, it could be
destroying your friends, isolating you from other people. Total lack
of remorse over what happens to you. And then when
you get associopath on steroids, you have the addition of cruelty,
which is not just dragging other people in because you
don't care about them, but you enjoy seeing other people's sweat,
(06:40):
cry bleed, whatever it is, you get pleasure from that.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Straight out to Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter, who
exactly was Brian Coberger planning to blame for four vicious murders?
Speaker 1 (06:55):
This is a whole another layer of evil as just.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Now, well after the deal has already done, Sign Silvan
delivered on that guilty plea to escape the death penalty.
Now we're learning about the brutal nature of the crimes,
more and more details of him lying in wait, walking
around the murder scene, even finding and tracing his trail
footsteps in the snow Coburger left behind.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
But we're learning his defense.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
His defense was to blame an innocent person, Dave mac
who did Coburger planned to blame.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Of the four people he planned to blame, one of
them was Kayleiganzovez's ex boyfriend known as j D, who
she shared the dog Murphy with. They actually had that
as their first child, and that's who he planned to
put all of this on.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Dave mac did I hear you say that there were
four people he planned to blame.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
He did, and Nancy. Three of the four, by the way,
we don't have the names of any of them, but
three of the four had an acquaintance or some type
of social or other media involvement with one of the roommates.
But it came out that Kaylee Gonzavez had an ex
boyfriend who she actually tried to contact that morning. If
(08:15):
you remember, there were several phone calls that Kaylee and
Matty made to the ex boyfriend and it was, you know,
talking of they had a good relationship. Even though they
were broken up. Their families actually fully expected them to
get back together. They were just going through a down face.
But they did share the dog, Murphy, that was a
mutually owned pet, and that's what they were communicating about.
(08:36):
So coburger plan, his offense team was to roll this
ex boyfriend under the bus and blame him for everything.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Guys, earlier, you heard Dubey and he was correct where
the defense creates links between the phantom perpetrator and the
crime and in this case and correct me if I'm wrong,
Susan Hendrix joining us and Dave Mack. There were four
individuals Coburger planned to blame for the murders, one the
(09:10):
ex boyfriend, and the other. Speaking of those links that
Dubay brought up, the judge even noticed that three of
the friends lived within walking distance of the King Road scene, right,
so it's placing them in the scene. They were friends,
and they had likely been in the home, and their
(09:30):
fingerprints or their DNA would be in the home. Clearly
the ex boyfriend fingerprints or DNA would be in the home.
The point is those links between some other dude and
the murders could easily be demonstrated by fingerprints in DNA,
free living within walking distance, one having had a.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Romantic relationship with one of the victims.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Those would be the links that Coburger would capitalize upon
to blame somebody.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
And what I'm saying Susan Hendricks with US now.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Investigative reporter and author of an incredible book, Down the
hiel My descended to the double murder in Delphi. Susan
blaming somebody else and naming them by name, to have
that forever hanging over their head. That's not why he's
stressed behind bars that he was going to stab somebody
(10:22):
else in the back. He's stressed behind bars because the
inmates are whispering to him through the events, calling him
the killer, and he's whining about it.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Seriously.
Speaker 8 (10:33):
Absolutely, it's all about Brian Coworker and it's always has
been in Sadly, it doesn't surprise me. The finger pointing, Nancy,
I saw it in Delphi with the Odinis theory and
names were named. Meanwhile, the judge said, hey, there's no connection,
you can't use the third party descent, but he didn't care.
And bringing up Ca Lee's X. They were on an
off high school sweethearts Jack Declor. They called each other
(10:56):
several times that night. Also, Maddie tried to call him
and he was cleared by police and he just disappeared
because he was being harassed. And the finger pointing. This
is before Coburger was arrested. But it doesn't surprise me
at all that Coburger only cares about himself and being
stretched because of what he's going through, not the lives
(11:17):
he destroyed.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
I mean, doctor Bethany Marshall, don't you know that Brian
Coberger and his defense team were just salivating, drooling when
they learned the ex boyfriend was scheduled to come in
and give fingerprints at the Moscow police station. They're like, hey, jackpot,
let's blame him. Regardless of what would do to the
(11:40):
ex boyfriend and the three other friends they planned to
blame what.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
It would do to their lives, that meant nothing to them.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
It was like, oh, happy day for them. It meant
absolutely nothing that these kids, and these were college kids,
their reputations would be ruined for the rest of their life.
But you know what it also shows, Nancy, is the
level of most autical planning that Coberger engaged in. His
whole life was organized around eventually committing this crime. From
(12:08):
being a criminology student to being a security guard, to
getting girls numbers at bars, to trying to be more
outward and outgoing.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Than he really was.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
He thought about this for years, Nancy, So I wouldn't
be surprised if learning who was living on that block
and who the girls were dating and the ins and
outs of their lives were also a part of the sick,
twisted fantasy life that he engaged in. Probably this is
so sick. I hate to even say it, but even
imagining the sex lives of these girls with their boyfriends
(12:41):
and the nature of the interactions, and maybe even in
a cruel statistic way, wanting to throw those boys under
the bus because they got the girl, not him.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Okay, you know what, very often when trying cases, I
would ask a witness to repeat something, something that was
particularly probative or impactful.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I need to hear what you just said.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Because we have uncovered a friend of Coburger's has said
Coburg incessantly talked about wanting a girlfriend. I think he
was an inceel in voluntary celibate. That's neither here nor
there at this juncture, but it fits in with what
you just said.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Okay, very slowly, say.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
That again, because it just hit me as he was
digging up and trying to create who they're going to
blame the sexual enjoyment he may have had about thinking
of the friend.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
What were you saying?
Speaker 4 (13:42):
He wasn't just a satist, Nancy. He was a lawyer
and in cells hate women because they can't get them,
and he had a long history of not being able
to get a girlfriend or to have a satisfactory relationship.
So part of the preparation for the crime was a
lurid fascination with the sex lives of these girls, and
(14:06):
part of that was identifying their boyfriends, men who may
have lived on the block, spying on them, being incredibly
seeingly envious and jealous of those relationships, wanting to destroy them,
and wanting to throw these young men under the bus
to get them out of the way as sexual rivals.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Dave Mac joining us. Dave Mac, it went a long way.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
It went.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
A good distance as far as defenses go. Trying to
frame the other four individuals. Tell me about it.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
What were they digging up in order to blame the
other people?
Speaker 3 (14:58):
And events claimed that the that three of the four
suspects were within walking distance of the King Road house,
so they had an opportunity to be right there when
they needed to be. So that was one of the
big things that they had about these possible alternate suspects.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Philip Debay, have you ever had a twin case? And
what I mean by that is, when you're a defendant,
it's every prosecutor's worst nightmare, and it's every defense attorney's
favorite dream when the perp actually has a twin and
the DNA is extremely similar. I actually had a murder
(15:40):
case where there was a twin.
Speaker 8 (15:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
So the point is they the defendant will do anything
to blame somebody else.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
And in this case, you've got.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
The texting to the ex boyfriend, you've got the friends
down the street. I'm sure they could have dredged up
some type of a misunderstanding or disagreement or anything to
support those theories.
Speaker 6 (16:07):
Of course, And by the way, I have had that
not often, I believe twice in my career. One was
a sex trafficking murder where they found a prostitute dumped
in a hefty bag off the freeway here in southern California,
and fortunately legally, the defendant had an identical twin. They
filed nonetheless because they had ample evidence putting him in
(16:28):
his car at the scene where the body was done. Now,
having said that, even if you want to blame it
identical twin, there has to be more than just the
motive means an opportunity in matching DNA. There has to
be something that links that twin to the crime, not
necessarily socially or interactively with the victim or victims.
Speaker 7 (16:51):
They have to be linked.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Can I just save your breath we got a lot
to get into the program tonight. They had that link
because said fingerprints DNA of all four of the potential
suspects at the crime scene, because they had been in
probably more than they had of Coburger. Of course, their
DNA wasn't on the knife hilt. I mean, you know,
(17:14):
Joe Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,
Chagual State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on
Amazon at start of a Hit News series Body Bags
with Joseph Scott Morgan. We are also now learning about
the horrific brutality of these crimes. But my point to
(17:34):
you for right now anyway, Joe Scott, is that none
of those four individuals DNA or fingerprints were anywhere connected
to the crime, not on the victims' bodies, not in
a bloody fingerprint, not on the murder weapon sheath.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
So you know what technical legal term, I don't know
if you've ever.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Heard this, Coburger was screwed because his DNA was on
the knife sheath and not just the sheath on where he.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Had pressed in the snap.
Speaker 9 (18:09):
I mean, yeah, it's a major problem for them. But
here like that. Let me give you this and this
is so disgusting to me on the part of the defense. Okay,
so you've got access, you being the defense, to all
of this imagery. You see everything inside of that house.
You know how brutal this event was. I'm not going
to say event massacre was inside of that thank you.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I was aboud to my head was blowing off when
you called it an event, like it's a church social
or a bridal shower, It's not an event. It's a
quadruple murder. Where Ethan's arterial blood squirted.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Up on the ceiling. And now I'm learning Joe.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Scott he was half hanging off the bed, half hanging
off Xana's bed where his had been slashed.
Speaker 9 (19:02):
Yeah, right, you are, and it was the environment was
just super saturated with blood. The defense was aware of this.
So you're telling me going down this road as long
as they've gone. Remember it was just a few days
before they reached this deal that they were still, you know,
kind of putting this out there that there was somebody
else involved. Why is it that you care so little
(19:25):
about the community around this location that's never experienced anything
like this, that you're not climbing up onto the roof
of every house there, screaming it that there is still
a murderer out there. We have their name, we have
the information. No, you're allowing the people in this area
to walk around in fear. And that's what's so obscene
(19:47):
about this, Nancy, that they go down this road and
they believe that there is somebody out there that has
the ability to commit this level of violence. But yet
they're not going to interdict it, not going to help
the community at all. They just let this person roam loose.
So if you've got that information, let it go. I
don't care about the fantasy world of courtroom right here.
(20:09):
I'm talking about the real environment at the scene, and
there's a major disconnect here. I don't know where their
moral compass is because I got to tell you, the
needle's broken on it.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Nancy, unrecognizable because of the stabs to per face, so.
Speaker 9 (20:25):
Many stab wounds, so many stab wounds.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
It's unbelievable.
Speaker 9 (20:29):
He brutalized each and every one of them.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Only now is the brutality of these crimes leaking. We're
now finding out how horrific the crime scene really was.
After being told at the get go. They were killed
in their sleep. They probably didn't even know what hit them.
B s Now will the FEDS seek the death penalty
(20:56):
on Brian Coburger?
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Listen to this.
Speaker 10 (20:59):
Over objection from the victims' families, the Moscow Police Department
releases hundreds of crime scene photos and videos related to
the investigation. One of the shocking photos is blurred as
it is a picture of a bed where one victim
was murdered.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
We have all.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Heard of double jeopardy, which means, for instance, Orenthal James
Simpson OJ Simpson was acquitted of double murder even if
he later confessed, such as in his video and book,
if I did it, please stop, still couldn't retry him
(21:36):
at the state level. However, FEDS have a death penalty.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
It is not.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Considered double jeopardy because the FEDS are considered a different jurisdiction,
so to speak, a different sovereign, as opposed to the
state system where he took the week plea example, Luigi Mangioni.
(22:04):
The FEDS swooped in and are prosecuting him on what
could have been state charges.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
We all remember the Rodney King case.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
And more so straight out to Philip Dubay, joining US debate.
It is entirely possible for the FEDS to seek the
death penalty in this case for many reasons, including crossing
state lines from Pullman to Moscow. But explain in a nutshell,
(22:37):
this is not a law review article. Just explain in
a nutshell how this could happen.
Speaker 6 (22:43):
And obviously Coldberger's doctoral curriculum did not include federal jurisdiction.
Speaker 7 (22:49):
The bottom line is this that the FEDS have authority.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
To prosecute any murder where a defendant uses interstate travel
or inner state communications lines because there is a federal
interest to capture, apprehend, and prosecute anybody that does that.
Speaker 7 (23:10):
And as soon as he.
Speaker 6 (23:11):
Got in the car and went from Moscow or from
Pullman to Moscow and return then to Pullman, he immediately
triggered federal jurisdiction. And there are other situations as well,
you know, like for example, maritime admiralty, you know that
kind of stuff. But he is absolutely at risk now.
As a practical matter, I sincerely doubt that they will
(23:33):
go after him, and if they did, they could seek
death and the method of execution would be from the
law of the state. And in this case, because Idaho
has the firing squad. He would be subjected to that
if the FEDS went after him, But because he pled
it pretty much closed the case out. But had he
have gone to trial, and let's say he would have
(23:56):
been acquitted, the FEDS would have swooped in and gone
after him, or let's say he would have been convicted
and the cases on appeal, and the Fed's had some
concern that maybe it could get reversed, maybe because of
his autism spectrum disorder.
Speaker 7 (24:12):
They would then come after him federally, but those.
Speaker 11 (24:15):
Would be wait wait, wait, wait, whoa whoa hold on
before you continue, doctor Bethany Marshall, can we stop with
the spectrum because that was never in all the.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Years of him being tested and getting his pH d,
for Pete's sake, never was autism brought up until his
defense team brought it up after he committed quadruple murder.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
I don't want to hear any more about all.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Of his mental defects, his emotional problems, or the spectrum.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
All of that has never been proved.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Those are just arguments made up by the defense, just
like the argument that the ex boyfriend and three friends
committed the murders.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Those are lies.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Hey, look, has he been on medication for autism spectrum disorder?
I haven't heard anything about that. And also, is there
any medical record he went through a PhD program. I
think this is an insult to people who are neuro diverse.
It's linking a mental condition with being homicidal, and the
two have nothing to do with each other.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
You know, two especial guests joining us.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Chris McDonough, who has been to the scene many many times.
He is the star of the interview room on YouTube,
former homicide detective with over three hundred homicide investigations under
his belt.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
You know, Chris McDonough.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
At this juncture, with so many people, including some of
the victims' families, revolting against this guilty plea, why wouldn't
the FEDS seek justice?
Speaker 5 (25:52):
You know that. I think it's still on the table
that they could, because there is a great push from
the family, specifically Kayley's family, that launts this justice in
terms of the death penalty. So if he does, like uh,
you know, Councilor said here a bit ago, if in fact,
(26:13):
he starts pushing an appeal, I could see the FEDS going, hey,
wait a minute, this could get out of control. Really
fast and step in.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Could a legal loophole bring Brian Koberger to the federal
death penalty despite his weak plea deal? Yes, a legal
loophole could see Coburger face the death penalty despite the
plea deal. Why he crossed state lines that puts him
(26:43):
in the cross hears of federal charges? But will it happen?
Straight out to Susan Hendricks joining US investigative reporter, what
if anything do you know about the.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Possibility the fast could still swoop in?
Speaker 8 (26:59):
Absolutely, he said, there is a possibility that I know
who's hoping for that. That's Kaylee's father. Because as we're
getting more information, it's being uncovered that he said, Look,
this investigation was boss in terms of the prosecution what
the families wanted. He even went on to say that
he believed they were separating the families and hitting them
(27:22):
against each other so they wouldn't bond together and say no,
we want to go to trial, we want the death penalty.
And he believes the prosecution wanted this gone. And now
we said he's offended because the prosecutors on a media tour, you.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Know, exacerbating everything is that we are learning during the
sentencing that Kelley Gonsolvas's mother gets a death threat.
Speaker 12 (27:47):
Listen during Coberger sentencing, someone claiming to be inside the
courtroom was terrorizing the mother of Kaylee Goansolves, Christy Goinsolvus,
received an anonymous death threat on her phone during this sentencing.
Hearing The text reads, sitting near you in court and watching.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
You is a joke.
Speaker 12 (28:05):
You know that Brian is innocent, but that isn't all.
The message continues, I am in contact with a lot
of serial killers, including BTK, and I've been in contact
with the wanna be serial killer who is in Moscow, Idaho,
and I have given him your address. Kayleie's dad, Steve says,
authorities are investigating the messages.
Speaker 13 (28:25):
And then let me ask you, did you on November thirteenth,
twenty twenty two enter the residents at one one two
two King Road in Moscow, Idaho with the intend to commit.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
The develony crime.
Speaker 13 (28:41):
And I don't know notation in emergency no way.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Can you imagine every after everything that Gonsalves family has
lived through and are still living through along with the
other victims families that missus Gonsolves actually gets a death
threat as she is sitting in the sentencing hearing to you,
Susan Hendrick's investigative reporter, therefore the sentencing exactly what happened.
Speaker 8 (29:12):
Yeah, absolutely there was a threat sent to Kelly's mother
during this. I was inside of that courtroom and we
didn't know it at the time, But now it's starting
to make sense. Why Speed stood behind his wife during
her victim impact statement. I think to say, hey, I'm
propepting my wife. Imagine the worst day you could ever
(29:33):
imagine in your life, facing the monster that did this
to your daughter and someone inside is threatening you. But
the woman next to me, the public was allowed in.
They had to wait in line, as did I hours before,
the night before. She believed that he was not guilty.
The Frank Coberger was not guilty. And so I'm thinking,
now was it her who wrote that? Who wrote it?
(29:55):
I'm thinking who was in that courtroom and who had
the audacity the nerve to send that to Kaylee's mother.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Shit, of all people, Dodger Bethany Marshall, to send that
to a victim's.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Mother in the middle of sentencing. What who are these people?
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Nancy there want to be sociopathic killers? I mean, it
is not surprising to me at all that a court
trial like this would draw other little mini Coburgers who
are admiring him, who are living salaciously off of the
details of the crime, want to hear every little minute
(30:37):
of it and even put their toe over the line
by making a death threat themselves. So this does not
surprise me at all, And in fact, I think in
court cases like this, people should be more carefully screened
to see what their background is, what their interest is,
because a lot of them are what we call a
fender identified.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
You know what's interesting, doctor Bethany, This is at the
sentencing where he has already pled guilty and he's being sentenced,
yet people are still deluded and insisting that he is
innocent and going so far is to make a death
threat on the mom. I mean, exactly what was the threat,
(31:21):
Susan Hendrix? What did the threat say to missus gonsolves the.
Speaker 8 (31:25):
Threat of something to the effect that they know that
Coberger is innocent and threatening harm against the family. I mean,
the lowest of the low, but I've seen it in
other cases as well. I go back to Delphi. I mean,
people are sick even when he's played guilty. He said
he's guilty, and they're saying no, not so.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
It says, I'm sitting near you in court and watching
you is a joke. That's what they're saying to Kill's mom.
You know, Brian is innocent. That's not all the Messa
has said. It says, quote, I am in contact with
a lot of serial killers, including BTK buying torture, killed
(32:06):
Dennis Raider, and I've been put in contact with a
want to be serial killer who is in Moscow, and
I've given him your address.
Speaker 8 (32:15):
Yeah, that threat should be taken seriously.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
That is an overt threat. And what I don't get
to you, Chris mcdonnaugh. The same people that are responsible
for this week plea deal are investigating that threat. How
hard can it be to find out who sent a text?
Speaker 5 (32:38):
Yeah, you know, this is one sick puppy, whoever this
individual is, and it is not very hard at all
to track that number down. A lot of people believe
that once you get a burner phone, that there's no
way of getting you know, a connection back to who
may have that in their position, But in fact there is,
and it's a system called hooster w asteer, and they
(33:02):
will find you.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
This as now we're learning about the true brutality of
these crimes. Why was that not released sooner? Because there
would have been a riot at the courthouse as a
result of these Please listen.
Speaker 10 (33:21):
Many of the photos released are so gruesome they are
heavily blurred. In surveillance video from a neighboring house, time
is documented that appears to show Coberger driving around the
neighborhood for fifteen minutes before stopping. The video documents what
seems to be noise coming from eleven twenty two King
Road at four seventeen and forty seconds what sounds like
(33:42):
a thud, followed by a person crying, then a dog
begins barking.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Crime Stores with Nancy Grace, you just heard about video
that is now just being released. The video is accompanied
with audio, and it is actually painful to listen to
because you hear what sounds like a thud, which is
(34:16):
clearly one of the four victims falling to the ground.
Some enhanced versions, you hear a whimper, and then you
hear the dog Murphy began barking violently. I wonder what
Coburger's reaction would be hearing this. Listen, you know, Joe
(34:59):
Scott more and just hearing that. I'm only going to
play it once. I don't want to hear it over
and over and over. It's the sound of one of
the victims getting stabbed and falling to the ground.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
I don't know what's victim.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
One of the victims, one of the female victims stabbed
twenty thirty times in the face.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Was it her? And you hear the dog going berserk.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
It's just to put yourself at that moment knowing that's
what's happening, right then, it's excruciating to me.
Speaker 9 (35:38):
Yes it is, Yeah, it is Nancy. And you know,
there's been these little bits of information that have come
out that when you take them all in context, it
just it's like a gut punch for me when I
first watched the surveillance video, that raw video, there's not
much that makes me uncomfortable any longer at this point
(35:59):
in my life. This did, because when you get to
that mark on this recording where you know that this
is going down, it's quite chilling. But Nancy kind of
a redirect on me. I got to tell you something.
Those images from inside of the house, and this is
coupled with this video. Nancy, when you look at Kayley's room.
(36:20):
There's a shot of the floor in there, and if
you look very carefully look straight down, see those droplets
of blood right there. Do you know what that means?
Those are passive blood droplets. He was standing there with
the knife in his hand, not moving. For each one
of those droplets that you see, that's a passive drop
(36:41):
that comes off of the tip of that blade or
off of his clothing and just drips. Think about how
long he lingered there and just kind of observing what
he had done, thinking about it. Where do I go next?
What do I do? And yet I haven't seen obviously
the horrific images of but just that alone, coupled with
(37:03):
a Tom stamp on that video, that's rolling, you know,
the dynamic in this house. He's in control at that moment, Tom,
and he has just butchered these precious kids one by one,
and he's contemplating where to go next, what to do next?
Speaker 2 (37:18):
You know, he says in Hendricks joining US investigative journalist
and author, everyone said, why didn't the dog bark? The
dog barked his head off.
Speaker 8 (37:27):
Yeah, And I think that barking, as I'm listening to it,
may have saved Dylan's life because at that point, I'm
thinking he thought, Okay, I got to get out of
here at this time. And as we're listening and watching Nancy,
what shocked me as well listened to Steve Gonzalves talk
about I guess I automatically think they take the families
(37:49):
aside and say, Okay, we're going to release this now. No,
they're seeing this on the news as we are, And
he said, I believe that everyone should have information, but
of course not the most gruesome photos of their children.
And it's part for the course. I mean, this family's
been through hell and they continue to be blindsided by
all of this, and they have to go through foy
(38:10):
requests in court if they want to block anything from
being released. It's just making everything more difficult and horrific
for the families.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
As you just heard investigative reporter Susan Hendrix state, all
of these horrific photos, videos, audios are being released without
the famili's consent, just like the plea deal was reached
without the famili's consent, all done in secret. Why when
(38:40):
things are done in secret, that makes me very suspicious about.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
The motive to justice.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Scott Morgan joining US Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author
and star of Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Jo Scott,
I want to talk about what we are learning regarding
the brutal of these crimes. Every time there's another data dump,
it just gets worse. And I imagine there's a lot
(39:07):
more that hasn't been released yet.
Speaker 9 (39:09):
Yeah, there has been, and you know, I think that
I think that kind of the tranch of images that
have been released to this point, maybe less than two hundred.
I would suspect in forensics, Nancy, when we're documented seeing
and you well know this, there's going to be thousands
of these images that have been taken all over the
(39:31):
course of this thing. But what we can establish here,
I think is a pattern of movement on the part
of this perpetrator as they moved through this residence, killing
one by one these kids. That's the most striking thing.
And look, listen, I know the family doesn't want these
(39:51):
photos out there, but I have to give high marks
to the police in this bit. They're in control of
these images because they have I think, strategically released them,
as opposed to these things just coming out on the
internet and being dumped all at once, and this is
kind of a slow slow burn. I think that we'll
(40:12):
probably see more. They're in control of these images. I
think there's a lot more information that we would all
like to know. But you have to think about the families.
At the end of the day, they are the kids
are gone, but the families remain, and they are the
true victims. Now that the kids are gone, they are
the true victims, and they're going to be paying the
price for this, for the remainder of their data, and.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Now they can think about all the weirdos pouring over
the graphic videos and photos of their children.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Listen.
Speaker 10 (40:40):
Shocking crime scene photos taking hours after the massacre shows
a horrifying scene. Blood splatter clearly visible on the walls
and doors, blood drops and cast off photographed on the
hardwood floors, and blood on the victim's betting doctor Bethany.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Marshall joining a psychoanalyst. How many times do you think
Brian Cooburger poured over these photos?
Speaker 1 (41:07):
And why?
Speaker 4 (41:07):
Oh, he poured over them but continuously, as are the
want to be Coburgers who are going to court, you know, Nancy,
These Coburger want to be is the reason they sent
the death threat is that the mighty king has fallen
and now they are stepping in to take his place.
That's one point. The other point is the indignities that
(41:29):
these families are suffering. There's one aspect we haven't talked about,
and that is the fact that Ethan's throat was slashed,
but the other girls were stabbed multiple times. This tells
me that Ethan, that Coberger, wanted to get Ethan, the
only male in the house, out of the way. He
was just dispensing with him. He didn't get the same
(41:51):
sadistic pleasure stabbing him multiple times. He wanted to do
that to the girls, just like he's throwing all the
rivals the and in the neighborhood under the bus. This
is one sick man. Nancy. His pull like his guiding
principle in cel as you said earlier, like principle get
(42:12):
the other men out of the way so I can
have access to the women who are rejecting me, and
now I hate them. I'm going behind bars. I am
going to whine, I'm going to beg I'm going to complain.
But all my little minions are coming into court. They're
stepping in after me because Nancy there are a lot
of other Coburgers behind him. And that's what worries me
(42:34):
about these crime scene photos. Not only is it disturbing
and retraumatizing to the families, it's stimulating to other perpetrators.
They have a lot of material in their hands now
to incite them to commit similar crimes.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Hey, what you just.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Said is very disturbing in that to you, Chris McDonough,
we saw a coburger pouring over prior serial killers.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
He was especially obsessed.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
With Bundy and I think bt K his life works
was studying what they did.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
And how they got caught.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
And now, don't you know, serial killer wannabes all over
the world are saying, note to self, don't leave knife
sheath behind. And what they learned from him about disposing
of the weapon, stalking the victims ahead of time, pre
planning and pre planning and pre planning, and only now
(43:36):
we're learning about the brutality of the murders. Just the
fact that what doctor Bethany just said, this is giving
a primer how to to other serial killer wannabes.
Speaker 5 (43:51):
Yeah, absolutely, Nancy, And isn't that disturbing in of itself?
And let's not also forget that he has access to
all of those digital photographs of that crime steam because
the defense and the defendant get access to all of
that information. So if he's even thinking about an appeal,
(44:12):
let's think about this for a moment. He gets to
take that to the Department of Corrections and have that
in his cell as legal documents. And that's disturbing in
of itself because he's reliving those very night and that
very crime while incarcerated. That's disturbing in of itself. Like
(44:33):
Doc Morgan was talking on that photograph right there, he
stood there and that knife from that blood groove on
that knife, that drop is a ninety degree what we
call ninety degree blood spatter. If you look at the
other photograph, that is our curial spray where Ethan's throat
was cut and every heartbeat created that pattern of blood
(44:58):
on the wall.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Dobey, defense attorney. Why should Coburger get to keep these
crime scene photos and pour over them and delight in
them even sexually behind mars?
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Why should he get that.
Speaker 6 (45:12):
When the case is over, they're allowed to have it.
And the reason why is it's their file. A councilor
does not own the file where the mere custodian of it,
the guardian of it while their case is pending.
Speaker 7 (45:25):
But afterwards it is theirs to have.
Speaker 6 (45:28):
Unfortunately, that is the law, and in fact, if you
don't give it to them, the attorney can be in
trouble with the state bar.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Doctor Bethany Marshall, this is so wrong that these photos,
graphic photos of the victims are being released without the families. Okay,
and Coburger gets the photos. Can you imagine what he's doing.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
With the photos. And they're much worse than what we're
showing right now.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Their photos are all the dead bodies lying prone.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
It's much worse than what we're showing on air nancies.
Speaker 4 (46:05):
These photos are like a serial killer's pornography. Let's think
about the MO of these types of crimes. It is
to inflict maximum cruelty in order to achieve sexual pleasure.
That is the MO. Sadism is a perversion. People need
to know that it is a perversion. Voyeurism looking through
(46:27):
the windows, that is a perversion. So now this perverse, sadistic,
want to be serial killer has the crime scene photos.
What is he going to do? He's going to sit
in jail and masturbate all day long, and we've talked
about the families, the indignities inflicted upon them. They know this.
(46:51):
They're not stupid. They're listening to the news. They've studied psychopaths.
They know what's happening with their children's photos, crime scene photos.
They have to live with this for the rest of
their lives.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Noyle, tell me exactly what's going on one of our
one of the roommates who's passed out and she's drung
class and shall not wake me up?
Speaker 4 (47:12):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Oh, and they saw some man in their house house night.
Speaker 3 (47:16):
Yeah, his man.
Speaker 4 (47:18):
Are you in the patient?
Speaker 5 (47:19):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (47:20):
I need someone to keep the phone, stop passing it around.
Speaker 8 (47:23):
Can I just tell you what happened pretty much?
Speaker 4 (47:26):
What is going on currently? If someone passed out right.
Speaker 8 (47:28):
Now, I don't really know what pretty much thorim Okay.
Speaker 4 (47:33):
So I need to know what's going on right now?
Speaker 11 (47:34):
If someone has passed out, can you find that out now?
Speaker 4 (47:37):
I'll come come on with musical check.
Speaker 12 (47:41):
We have to.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Will the fads intervene and see the federal death penalty?
Will Coberger continue to wind me, me, me, me me,
because the other inmates are harassing him behind bars through
the air vents. What more will we learn about the
night these four students were brutally murdered, not in their sleep.
(48:09):
We wait as just as unfolds, and now we remember
an American hero, Deputy Sheriff ned Bird Wait County Sheriffs,
North Carolina, shot in the line of duty after thirteen
years in Ellie, leaving behind grieving sister Mignon American hero
Deputy Sheriff ned Bird Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend.
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Brian Coburger stressed behind bars, Really inmates constantly harassing Coburger
through the air vnce boohoo, as we learn who Coburger
and his fleet of attorneys planned to blame.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
For the murders. At trial, This.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
As we learned the FEDS could seek the death penalty.
Even now, I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Chilling crime scene photos released in the Brian Coberger case,
detailing the tragic murders of the four University of Idaho
students killed in the attack.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
The irony that now we are learning about the true
brutality of these four murders after the deal is done.
This as we are learning Brian Coburger is stressed behind bars,
inmates constantly harassing.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Him through the air vents and more.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
But before I get to those facts, I'm going to
go straight out to renown psycho analyst doctor Bethany Marshall
joining us out.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Of Beverly Hills, author of deal Breaker.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
You can see her now on Peacock and you can
find her at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall
I'm just a trial lawyer. You're the shrink. This is
completely mass awkwards. He's stressed behind bars, and he's whining
because inmates are whispering.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
To him and yelling at him through the air vents.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
I mean, I'm not exactly sure what a narcissist is
when the whole world revolves.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Around me, me me, me, me me, me, me me me,
but I think that would be him.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Associate path is a narcissist on steroids. It is the
same disorder, Nancy. It's a spectrum disorder like narcissist lack empathy.
Sociopaths have no feeling for other human beings or even
for themselves, Nancy. So this whole idea that he's stressed
behind bars could mean only one of two things. One
(02:14):
is that he's just manipulating the judge. That's it, because
I don't think he feels much at all. The other
is that maybe he's getting some kind of pleasure from
all the attention he's getting and he just wants to
talk about the Other is that he probably has not
received any consequences for his actions thus far in lives,
so the fact that he's actually having consequences is surprising.
(02:39):
To him, and so he has to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
You know, I'm learning so much as all pouring out
now that the deal is done, I'll tell you is
probably stressed, which I'm going to get to and just
to mow was Susan hendrickson Dave's Mac the people that
Brian Kiberger was planning to blame at trial forget about
him being not guilty.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
According to him, of course, which is a lie.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
But he was actually going to compound by blaming somebody
else for the murders, knowing full well he's guilty.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
And I don't mean just some.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Hey there was another burglary down the street the week before. No,
he was actually going to blame a specific friend of
the victims, and that friend of the victims would have
those allegations hanging over his head the rest of his life,
even though Coberger knew he was guilty. That takes a
certain mindset. You're not just claiming I'm guilty. Don't see
(03:38):
me to the death penalty, You're.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Actually blaming another person.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And Philip Dbay without going to deathcom four in the
law Guy's Doby, veteran trial lawyer joining us out of
the LA jurisdiction debate. For a defendant to blame a
third person is the sod some other dude did it.
(04:03):
You can't just say, hey, crime statistics are up in
this neighborhood with burglary, so is one of them. To
bring in some other dude did it. You have to
have an actual dude. You have to have It can't
be an amorphous maybe this person did it. Maybe you
have to have somebody you're going to blame under the law,
(04:24):
that's the law in every jurisdiction. So Coburger's defense had
actually picked out somebody to blame.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
It's not enough.
Speaker 6 (04:32):
You have to show more than a means motive, an opportunity.
You have to show that there is corroborating evidence linking
that alternate perpetrator if you go to the crime itself,
and that's why you have the judges steps in and says, look,
if you can't link the two, then you're really asking
a jury to find unreasonable doubt.
Speaker 7 (04:51):
As to who the real perpetrator is. And the judge
will step in and show you.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
What I'm taking that to Maine that you're trying to say, yes,
the defendant must point to a specific person, and in
this case, the defense had created a lot of links
between that person and the victims, knowing full well and
(05:15):
ultimately pleading guilty to the murders.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
I mean doctor Bethany Marshall. Back to me me me me, me,
me me me.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Brian Coberger, who is stressed behind bars, he actually had
escapegoat that he was willing to take down for that
person forever.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
To have that dark cloud over them.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Hey, maybe he did it for the rest of his life,
for the rest of his family's lives, so Coburger could
walk free. That's a whole another layer of evil right there.
Not just I didn't do it, believe me, jurie, but
he did it.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Blame him. That's pretty bold, wouldn't.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
You start ancb Oh, yeah, Nancy, you referenced narcissism early.
You know, the primary feature again is lack of empathy
towards others. The second feature of malignant narcissism is destructiveness.
People who are malignant narcissists want to take everybody down
around them. The destruction could be committing homicide, or for
(06:17):
anybody who's married to a malignant narcissist, it could be
destroying your friends, isolating you from other people. Total lack
of remorse over what happens to you. And then when
you get associopath on steroids, you have the addition of cruelty,
which is not just dragging other people in because you
don't care about them, but you enjoy seeing other people's sweat,
(06:40):
cry bleed, whatever it is, you get pleasure from that.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Straight out to Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter, who
exactly was Brian Coberger planning to blame for four vicious murders?
Speaker 1 (06:55):
This is a whole another layer of evil as just.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Now, well after the deal has already done, Sign Silvan
delivered on that guilty plea to escape the death penalty.
Now we're learning about the brutal nature of the crimes,
more and more details of him lying in wait, walking
around the murder scene, even finding and tracing his trail
footsteps in the snow Coburger left behind.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
But we're learning his defense.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
His defense was to blame an innocent person, Dave mac
who did Coburger planned to blame.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Of the four people he planned to blame, one of
them was Kayleiganzovez's ex boyfriend known as j D, who
she shared the dog Murphy with. They actually had that
as their first child, and that's who he planned to
put all of this on.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Dave mac did I hear you say that there were
four people he planned to blame.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
He did, and Nancy. Three of the four, by the way,
we don't have the names of any of them, but
three of the four had an acquaintance or some type
of social or other media involvement with one of the roommates.
But it came out that Kaylee Gonzavez had an ex
boyfriend who she actually tried to contact that morning. If
(08:15):
you remember, there were several phone calls that Kaylee and
Matty made to the ex boyfriend and it was, you know,
talking of they had a good relationship. Even though they
were broken up. Their families actually fully expected them to
get back together. They were just going through a down face.
But they did share the dog, Murphy, that was a
mutually owned pet, and that's what they were communicating about.
(08:36):
So coburger plan, his offense team was to roll this
ex boyfriend under the bus and blame him for everything.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Guys, earlier, you heard Dubey and he was correct where
the defense creates links between the phantom perpetrator and the
crime and in this case and correct me if I'm wrong,
Susan Hendrix joining us and Dave Mack. There were four
individuals Coburger planned to blame for the murders, one the
(09:10):
ex boyfriend, and the other. Speaking of those links that
Dubay brought up, the judge even noticed that three of
the friends lived within walking distance of the King Road scene, right,
so it's placing them in the scene. They were friends,
and they had likely been in the home, and their
(09:30):
fingerprints or their DNA would be in the home. Clearly
the ex boyfriend fingerprints or DNA would be in the home.
The point is those links between some other dude and
the murders could easily be demonstrated by fingerprints in DNA,
free living within walking distance, one having had a.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Romantic relationship with one of the victims.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Those would be the links that Coburger would capitalize upon
to blame somebody.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
And what I'm saying Susan Hendricks with US now.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Investigative reporter and author of an incredible book, Down the
hiel My descended to the double murder in Delphi. Susan
blaming somebody else and naming them by name, to have
that forever hanging over their head. That's not why he's
stressed behind bars that he was going to stab somebody
(10:22):
else in the back. He's stressed behind bars because the
inmates are whispering to him through the events, calling him
the killer, and he's whining about it.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Seriously.
Speaker 8 (10:33):
Absolutely, it's all about Brian Coworker and it's always has
been in Sadly, it doesn't surprise me. The finger pointing, Nancy,
I saw it in Delphi with the Odinis theory and
names were named. Meanwhile, the judge said, hey, there's no connection,
you can't use the third party descent, but he didn't care.
And bringing up Ca Lee's X. They were on an
off high school sweethearts Jack Declor. They called each other
(10:56):
several times that night. Also, Maddie tried to call him
and he was cleared by police and he just disappeared
because he was being harassed. And the finger pointing. This
is before Coburger was arrested. But it doesn't surprise me
at all that Coburger only cares about himself and being
stretched because of what he's going through, not the lives
(11:17):
he destroyed.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
I mean, doctor Bethany Marshall, don't you know that Brian
Coberger and his defense team were just salivating, drooling when
they learned the ex boyfriend was scheduled to come in
and give fingerprints at the Moscow police station. They're like, hey, jackpot,
let's blame him. Regardless of what would do to the
(11:40):
ex boyfriend and the three other friends they planned to
blame what.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
It would do to their lives, that meant nothing to them.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
It was like, oh, happy day for them. It meant
absolutely nothing that these kids, and these were college kids,
their reputations would be ruined for the rest of their life.
But you know what it also shows, Nancy, is the
level of most autical planning that Coberger engaged in. His
whole life was organized around eventually committing this crime. From
(12:08):
being a criminology student to being a security guard, to
getting girls numbers at bars, to trying to be more
outward and outgoing.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Than he really was.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
He thought about this for years, Nancy, So I wouldn't
be surprised if learning who was living on that block
and who the girls were dating and the ins and
outs of their lives were also a part of the sick,
twisted fantasy life that he engaged in. Probably this is
so sick. I hate to even say it, but even
imagining the sex lives of these girls with their boyfriends
(12:41):
and the nature of the interactions, and maybe even in
a cruel statistic way, wanting to throw those boys under
the bus because they got the girl, not him.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Okay, you know what, very often when trying cases, I
would ask a witness to repeat something, something that was
particularly probative or impactful.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
I need to hear what you just said.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Because we have uncovered a friend of Coburger's has said
Coburg incessantly talked about wanting a girlfriend. I think he
was an inceel in voluntary celibate. That's neither here nor
there at this juncture, but it fits in with what
you just said.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Okay, very slowly, say.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
That again, because it just hit me as he was
digging up and trying to create who they're going to
blame the sexual enjoyment he may have had about thinking
of the friend.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
What were you saying?
Speaker 4 (13:42):
He wasn't just a satist, Nancy. He was a lawyer
and in cells hate women because they can't get them,
and he had a long history of not being able
to get a girlfriend or to have a satisfactory relationship.
So part of the preparation for the crime was a
lurid fascination with the sex lives of these girls, and
(14:06):
part of that was identifying their boyfriends, men who may
have lived on the block, spying on them, being incredibly
seeingly envious and jealous of those relationships, wanting to destroy them,
and wanting to throw these young men under the bus
to get them out of the way as sexual rivals.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Dave Mac joining us. Dave Mac, it went a long way.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
It went.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
A good distance as far as defenses go. Trying to
frame the other four individuals. Tell me about it.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
What were they digging up in order to blame the
other people?
Speaker 3 (14:58):
And events claimed that the that three of the four
suspects were within walking distance of the King Road house,
so they had an opportunity to be right there when
they needed to be. So that was one of the
big things that they had about these possible alternate suspects.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Philip Debay, have you ever had a twin case? And
what I mean by that is, when you're a defendant,
it's every prosecutor's worst nightmare, and it's every defense attorney's
favorite dream when the perp actually has a twin and
the DNA is extremely similar. I actually had a murder
(15:40):
case where there was a twin.
Speaker 8 (15:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
So the point is they the defendant will do anything
to blame somebody else.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
And in this case, you've got.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
The texting to the ex boyfriend, you've got the friends
down the street. I'm sure they could have dredged up
some type of a misunderstanding or disagreement or anything to
support those theories.
Speaker 6 (16:07):
Of course, And by the way, I have had that
not often, I believe twice in my career. One was
a sex trafficking murder where they found a prostitute dumped
in a hefty bag off the freeway here in southern California,
and fortunately legally, the defendant had an identical twin. They
filed nonetheless because they had ample evidence putting him in
(16:28):
his car at the scene where the body was done. Now,
having said that, even if you want to blame it
identical twin, there has to be more than just the
motive means an opportunity in matching DNA. There has to
be something that links that twin to the crime, not
necessarily socially or interactively with the victim or victims.
Speaker 7 (16:51):
They have to be linked.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Can I just save your breath we got a lot
to get into the program tonight. They had that link
because said fingerprints DNA of all four of the potential
suspects at the crime scene, because they had been in
probably more than they had of Coburger. Of course, their
DNA wasn't on the knife hilt. I mean, you know,
(17:14):
Joe Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,
Chagual State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on
Amazon at start of a Hit News series Body Bags
with Joseph Scott Morgan. We are also now learning about
the horrific brutality of these crimes. But my point to
(17:34):
you for right now anyway, Joe Scott, is that none
of those four individuals DNA or fingerprints were anywhere connected
to the crime, not on the victims' bodies, not in
a bloody fingerprint, not on the murder weapon sheath.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
So you know what technical legal term, I don't know
if you've ever.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Heard this, Coburger was screwed because his DNA was on
the knife sheath and not just the sheath on where he.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Had pressed in the snap.
Speaker 9 (18:09):
I mean, yeah, it's a major problem for them. But
here like that. Let me give you this and this
is so disgusting to me on the part of the defense. Okay,
so you've got access, you being the defense, to all
of this imagery. You see everything inside of that house.
You know how brutal this event was. I'm not going
to say event massacre was inside of that thank you.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I was aboud to my head was blowing off when
you called it an event, like it's a church social
or a bridal shower, It's not an event. It's a
quadruple murder. Where Ethan's arterial blood squirted.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Up on the ceiling. And now I'm learning Joe.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Scott he was half hanging off the bed, half hanging
off Xana's bed where his had been slashed.
Speaker 9 (19:02):
Yeah, right, you are, and it was the environment was
just super saturated with blood. The defense was aware of this.
So you're telling me going down this road as long
as they've gone. Remember it was just a few days
before they reached this deal that they were still, you know,
kind of putting this out there that there was somebody
else involved. Why is it that you care so little
(19:25):
about the community around this location that's never experienced anything
like this, that you're not climbing up onto the roof
of every house there, screaming it that there is still
a murderer out there. We have their name, we have
the information. No, you're allowing the people in this area
to walk around in fear. And that's what's so obscene
(19:47):
about this, Nancy, that they go down this road and
they believe that there is somebody out there that has
the ability to commit this level of violence. But yet
they're not going to interdict it, not going to help
the community at all. They just let this person roam loose.
So if you've got that information, let it go. I
don't care about the fantasy world of courtroom right here.
(20:09):
I'm talking about the real environment at the scene, and
there's a major disconnect here. I don't know where their
moral compass is because I got to tell you, the
needle's broken on it.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Nancy, unrecognizable because of the stabs to per face, so.
Speaker 9 (20:25):
Many stab wounds, so many stab wounds.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
It's unbelievable.
Speaker 9 (20:29):
He brutalized each and every one of them.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Only now is the brutality of these crimes leaking. We're
now finding out how horrific the crime scene really was.
After being told at the get go. They were killed
in their sleep. They probably didn't even know what hit them.
B s Now will the FEDS seek the death penalty
(20:56):
on Brian Coburger?
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Listen to this.
Speaker 10 (20:59):
Over objection from the victims' families, the Moscow Police Department
releases hundreds of crime scene photos and videos related to
the investigation. One of the shocking photos is blurred as
it is a picture of a bed where one victim
was murdered.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
We have all.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Heard of double jeopardy, which means, for instance, Orenthal James
Simpson OJ Simpson was acquitted of double murder even if
he later confessed, such as in his video and book,
if I did it, please stop, still couldn't retry him
(21:36):
at the state level. However, FEDS have a death penalty.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
It is not.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Considered double jeopardy because the FEDS are considered a different jurisdiction,
so to speak, a different sovereign, as opposed to the
state system where he took the week plea example, Luigi Mangioni.
(22:04):
The FEDS swooped in and are prosecuting him on what
could have been state charges.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
We all remember the Rodney King case.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
And more so straight out to Philip Dubay, joining US debate.
It is entirely possible for the FEDS to seek the
death penalty in this case for many reasons, including crossing
state lines from Pullman to Moscow. But explain in a nutshell,
(22:37):
this is not a law review article. Just explain in
a nutshell how this could happen.
Speaker 6 (22:43):
And obviously Coldberger's doctoral curriculum did not include federal jurisdiction.
Speaker 7 (22:49):
The bottom line is this that the FEDS have authority.
Speaker 6 (22:53):
To prosecute any murder where a defendant uses interstate travel
or inner state communications lines because there is a federal
interest to capture, apprehend, and prosecute anybody that does that.
Speaker 7 (23:10):
And as soon as he.
Speaker 6 (23:11):
Got in the car and went from Moscow or from
Pullman to Moscow and return then to Pullman, he immediately
triggered federal jurisdiction. And there are other situations as well,
you know, like for example, maritime admiralty, you know that
kind of stuff. But he is absolutely at risk now.
As a practical matter, I sincerely doubt that they will
(23:33):
go after him, and if they did, they could seek
death and the method of execution would be from the
law of the state. And in this case, because Idaho
has the firing squad. He would be subjected to that
if the FEDS went after him, But because he pled
it pretty much closed the case out. But had he
have gone to trial, and let's say he would have
(23:56):
been acquitted, the FEDS would have swooped in and gone
after him, or let's say he would have been convicted
and the cases on appeal, and the Fed's had some
concern that maybe it could get reversed, maybe because of
his autism spectrum disorder.
Speaker 7 (24:12):
They would then come after him federally, but those.
Speaker 11 (24:15):
Would be wait wait, wait, wait, whoa whoa hold on
before you continue, doctor Bethany Marshall, can we stop with
the spectrum because that was never in all the.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Years of him being tested and getting his pH d,
for Pete's sake, never was autism brought up until his
defense team brought it up after he committed quadruple murder.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
I don't want to hear any more about all.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Of his mental defects, his emotional problems, or the spectrum.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
All of that has never been proved.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Those are just arguments made up by the defense, just
like the argument that the ex boyfriend and three friends
committed the murders.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Those are lies.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Hey, look, has he been on medication for autism spectrum disorder?
I haven't heard anything about that. And also, is there
any medical record he went through a PhD program. I
think this is an insult to people who are neuro diverse.
It's linking a mental condition with being homicidal, and the
two have nothing to do with each other.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
You know, two especial guests joining us.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Chris McDonough, who has been to the scene many many times.
He is the star of the interview room on YouTube,
former homicide detective with over three hundred homicide investigations under
his belt.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
You know, Chris McDonough.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
At this juncture, with so many people, including some of
the victims' families, revolting against this guilty plea, why wouldn't
the FEDS seek justice?
Speaker 5 (25:52):
You know that. I think it's still on the table
that they could, because there is a great push from
the family, specifically Kayley's family, that launts this justice in
terms of the death penalty. So if he does, like uh,
you know, Councilor said here a bit ago, if in fact,
(26:13):
he starts pushing an appeal, I could see the FEDS going, hey,
wait a minute, this could get out of control. Really
fast and step in.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Could a legal loophole bring Brian Koberger to the federal
death penalty despite his weak plea deal? Yes, a legal
loophole could see Coburger face the death penalty despite the
plea deal. Why he crossed state lines that puts him
(26:43):
in the cross hears of federal charges? But will it happen?
Straight out to Susan Hendricks joining US investigative reporter, what
if anything do you know about the.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Possibility the fast could still swoop in?
Speaker 8 (26:59):
Absolutely, he said, there is a possibility that I know
who's hoping for that. That's Kaylee's father. Because as we're
getting more information, it's being uncovered that he said, Look,
this investigation was boss in terms of the prosecution what
the families wanted. He even went on to say that
he believed they were separating the families and hitting them
(27:22):
against each other so they wouldn't bond together and say no,
we want to go to trial, we want the death penalty.
And he believes the prosecution wanted this gone. And now
we said he's offended because the prosecutors on a media tour, you.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Know, exacerbating everything is that we are learning during the
sentencing that Kelley Gonsolvas's mother gets a death threat.
Speaker 12 (27:47):
Listen during Coberger sentencing, someone claiming to be inside the
courtroom was terrorizing the mother of Kaylee Goansolves, Christy Goinsolvus,
received an anonymous death threat on her phone during this sentencing.
Hearing The text reads, sitting near you in court and watching.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
You is a joke.
Speaker 12 (28:05):
You know that Brian is innocent, but that isn't all.
The message continues, I am in contact with a lot
of serial killers, including BTK, and I've been in contact
with the wanna be serial killer who is in Moscow, Idaho,
and I have given him your address. Kayleie's dad, Steve says,
authorities are investigating the messages.
Speaker 13 (28:25):
And then let me ask you, did you on November thirteenth,
twenty twenty two enter the residents at one one two
two King Road in Moscow, Idaho with the intend to commit.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
The develony crime.
Speaker 13 (28:41):
And I don't know notation in emergency no way.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Can you imagine every after everything that Gonsalves family has
lived through and are still living through along with the
other victims families that missus Gonsolves actually gets a death
threat as she is sitting in the sentencing hearing to you,
Susan Hendrick's investigative reporter, therefore the sentencing exactly what happened.
Speaker 8 (29:12):
Yeah, absolutely there was a threat sent to Kelly's mother
during this. I was inside of that courtroom and we
didn't know it at the time, But now it's starting
to make sense. Why Speed stood behind his wife during
her victim impact statement. I think to say, hey, I'm
propepting my wife. Imagine the worst day you could ever
(29:33):
imagine in your life, facing the monster that did this
to your daughter and someone inside is threatening you. But
the woman next to me, the public was allowed in.
They had to wait in line, as did I hours before,
the night before. She believed that he was not guilty.
The Frank Coberger was not guilty. And so I'm thinking,
now was it her who wrote that? Who wrote it?
(29:55):
I'm thinking who was in that courtroom and who had
the audacity the nerve to send that to Kaylee's mother.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Shit, of all people, Dodger Bethany Marshall, to send that
to a victim's.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Mother in the middle of sentencing. What who are these people?
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Nancy there want to be sociopathic killers? I mean, it
is not surprising to me at all that a court
trial like this would draw other little mini Coburgers who
are admiring him, who are living salaciously off of the
details of the crime, want to hear every little minute
(30:37):
of it and even put their toe over the line
by making a death threat themselves. So this does not
surprise me at all, And in fact, I think in
court cases like this, people should be more carefully screened
to see what their background is, what their interest is,
because a lot of them are what we call a
fender identified.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
You know what's interesting, doctor Bethany, This is at the
sentencing where he has already pled guilty and he's being sentenced,
yet people are still deluded and insisting that he is
innocent and going so far is to make a death
threat on the mom. I mean, exactly what was the threat,
(31:21):
Susan Hendrix? What did the threat say to missus gonsolves the.
Speaker 8 (31:25):
Threat of something to the effect that they know that
Coberger is innocent and threatening harm against the family. I mean,
the lowest of the low, but I've seen it in
other cases as well. I go back to Delphi. I mean,
people are sick even when he's played guilty. He said
he's guilty, and they're saying no, not so.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
It says, I'm sitting near you in court and watching
you is a joke. That's what they're saying to Kill's mom.
You know, Brian is innocent. That's not all the Messa
has said. It says, quote, I am in contact with
a lot of serial killers, including BTK buying torture, killed
(32:06):
Dennis Raider, and I've been put in contact with a
want to be serial killer who is in Moscow, and
I've given him your address.
Speaker 8 (32:15):
Yeah, that threat should be taken seriously.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
That is an overt threat. And what I don't get
to you, Chris mcdonnaugh. The same people that are responsible
for this week plea deal are investigating that threat. How
hard can it be to find out who sent a text?
Speaker 5 (32:38):
Yeah, you know, this is one sick puppy, whoever this
individual is, and it is not very hard at all
to track that number down. A lot of people believe
that once you get a burner phone, that there's no
way of getting you know, a connection back to who
may have that in their position, But in fact there is,
and it's a system called hooster w asteer, and they
(33:02):
will find you.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
This as now we're learning about the true brutality of
these crimes. Why was that not released sooner? Because there
would have been a riot at the courthouse as a
result of these Please listen.
Speaker 10 (33:21):
Many of the photos released are so gruesome they are
heavily blurred. In surveillance video from a neighboring house, time
is documented that appears to show Coberger driving around the
neighborhood for fifteen minutes before stopping. The video documents what
seems to be noise coming from eleven twenty two King
Road at four seventeen and forty seconds what sounds like
(33:42):
a thud, followed by a person crying, then a dog
begins barking.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Crime Stores with Nancy Grace, you just heard about video
that is now just being released. The video is accompanied
with audio, and it is actually painful to listen to
because you hear what sounds like a thud, which is
(34:16):
clearly one of the four victims falling to the ground.
Some enhanced versions, you hear a whimper, and then you
hear the dog Murphy began barking violently. I wonder what
Coburger's reaction would be hearing this. Listen, you know, Joe
(34:59):
Scott more and just hearing that. I'm only going to
play it once. I don't want to hear it over
and over and over. It's the sound of one of
the victims getting stabbed and falling to the ground.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
I don't know what's victim.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
One of the victims, one of the female victims stabbed
twenty thirty times in the face.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Was it her? And you hear the dog going berserk.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
It's just to put yourself at that moment knowing that's
what's happening, right then, it's excruciating to me.
Speaker 9 (35:38):
Yes it is, Yeah, it is Nancy. And you know,
there's been these little bits of information that have come
out that when you take them all in context, it
just it's like a gut punch for me when I
first watched the surveillance video, that raw video, there's not
much that makes me uncomfortable any longer at this point
(35:59):
in my life. This did, because when you get to
that mark on this recording where you know that this
is going down, it's quite chilling. But Nancy kind of
a redirect on me. I got to tell you something.
Those images from inside of the house, and this is
coupled with this video. Nancy, when you look at Kayley's room.
(36:20):
There's a shot of the floor in there, and if
you look very carefully look straight down, see those droplets
of blood right there. Do you know what that means?
Those are passive blood droplets. He was standing there with
the knife in his hand, not moving. For each one
of those droplets that you see, that's a passive drop
(36:41):
that comes off of the tip of that blade or
off of his clothing and just drips. Think about how
long he lingered there and just kind of observing what
he had done, thinking about it. Where do I go next?
What do I do? And yet I haven't seen obviously
the horrific images of but just that alone, coupled with
(37:03):
a Tom stamp on that video, that's rolling, you know,
the dynamic in this house. He's in control at that moment, Tom,
and he has just butchered these precious kids one by one,
and he's contemplating where to go next, what to do next?
Speaker 2 (37:18):
You know, he says in Hendricks joining US investigative journalist
and author, everyone said, why didn't the dog bark? The
dog barked his head off.
Speaker 8 (37:27):
Yeah, And I think that barking, as I'm listening to it,
may have saved Dylan's life because at that point, I'm
thinking he thought, Okay, I got to get out of
here at this time. And as we're listening and watching Nancy,
what shocked me as well listened to Steve Gonzalves talk
about I guess I automatically think they take the families
(37:49):
aside and say, Okay, we're going to release this now. No,
they're seeing this on the news as we are, And
he said, I believe that everyone should have information, but
of course not the most gruesome photos of their children.
And it's part for the course. I mean, this family's
been through hell and they continue to be blindsided by
all of this, and they have to go through foy
(38:10):
requests in court if they want to block anything from
being released. It's just making everything more difficult and horrific
for the families.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
As you just heard investigative reporter Susan Hendrix state, all
of these horrific photos, videos, audios are being released without
the famili's consent, just like the plea deal was reached
without the famili's consent, all done in secret. Why when
(38:40):
things are done in secret, that makes me very suspicious about.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
The motive to justice.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Scott Morgan joining US Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author
and star of Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. Jo Scott,
I want to talk about what we are learning regarding
the brutal of these crimes. Every time there's another data dump,
it just gets worse. And I imagine there's a lot
(39:07):
more that hasn't been released yet.
Speaker 9 (39:09):
Yeah, there has been, and you know, I think that
I think that kind of the tranch of images that
have been released to this point, maybe less than two hundred.
I would suspect in forensics, Nancy, when we're documented seeing
and you well know this, there's going to be thousands
of these images that have been taken all over the
(39:31):
course of this thing. But what we can establish here,
I think is a pattern of movement on the part
of this perpetrator as they moved through this residence, killing
one by one these kids. That's the most striking thing.
And look, listen, I know the family doesn't want these
(39:51):
photos out there, but I have to give high marks
to the police in this bit. They're in control of
these images because they have I think, strategically released them,
as opposed to these things just coming out on the
internet and being dumped all at once, and this is
kind of a slow slow burn. I think that we'll
(40:12):
probably see more. They're in control of these images. I
think there's a lot more information that we would all
like to know. But you have to think about the families.
At the end of the day, they are the kids
are gone, but the families remain, and they are the
true victims. Now that the kids are gone, they are
the true victims, and they're going to be paying the
price for this, for the remainder of their data, and.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Now they can think about all the weirdos pouring over
the graphic videos and photos of their children.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
Listen.
Speaker 10 (40:40):
Shocking crime scene photos taking hours after the massacre shows
a horrifying scene. Blood splatter clearly visible on the walls
and doors, blood drops and cast off photographed on the
hardwood floors, and blood on the victim's betting doctor Bethany.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Marshall joining a psychoanalyst. How many times do you think
Brian Cooburger poured over these photos?
Speaker 1 (41:07):
And why?
Speaker 4 (41:07):
Oh, he poured over them but continuously, as are the
want to be Coburgers who are going to court, you know, Nancy,
These Coburger want to be is the reason they sent
the death threat is that the mighty king has fallen
and now they are stepping in to take his place.
That's one point. The other point is the indignities that
(41:29):
these families are suffering. There's one aspect we haven't talked about,
and that is the fact that Ethan's throat was slashed,
but the other girls were stabbed multiple times. This tells
me that Ethan, that Coberger, wanted to get Ethan, the
only male in the house, out of the way. He
was just dispensing with him. He didn't get the same
(41:51):
sadistic pleasure stabbing him multiple times. He wanted to do
that to the girls, just like he's throwing all the
rivals the and in the neighborhood under the bus. This
is one sick man. Nancy. His pull like his guiding
principle in cel as you said earlier, like principle get
(42:12):
the other men out of the way so I can
have access to the women who are rejecting me, and
now I hate them. I'm going behind bars. I am
going to whine, I'm going to beg I'm going to complain.
But all my little minions are coming into court. They're
stepping in after me because Nancy there are a lot
of other Coburgers behind him. And that's what worries me
(42:34):
about these crime scene photos. Not only is it disturbing
and retraumatizing to the families, it's stimulating to other perpetrators.
They have a lot of material in their hands now
to incite them to commit similar crimes.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Hey, what you just.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Said is very disturbing in that to you, Chris McDonough,
we saw a coburger pouring over prior serial killers.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
He was especially obsessed.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
With Bundy and I think bt K his life works
was studying what they did.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
And how they got caught.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
And now, don't you know, serial killer wannabes all over
the world are saying, note to self, don't leave knife
sheath behind. And what they learned from him about disposing
of the weapon, stalking the victims ahead of time, pre
planning and pre planning and pre planning, and only now
(43:36):
we're learning about the brutality of the murders. Just the
fact that what doctor Bethany just said, this is giving
a primer how to to other serial killer wannabes.
Speaker 5 (43:51):
Yeah, absolutely, Nancy, And isn't that disturbing in of itself?
And let's not also forget that he has access to
all of those digital photographs of that crime steam because
the defense and the defendant get access to all of
that information. So if he's even thinking about an appeal,
(44:12):
let's think about this for a moment. He gets to
take that to the Department of Corrections and have that
in his cell as legal documents. And that's disturbing in
of itself because he's reliving those very night and that
very crime while incarcerated. That's disturbing in of itself. Like
(44:33):
Doc Morgan was talking on that photograph right there, he
stood there and that knife from that blood groove on
that knife, that drop is a ninety degree what we
call ninety degree blood spatter. If you look at the
other photograph, that is our curial spray where Ethan's throat
was cut and every heartbeat created that pattern of blood
(44:58):
on the wall.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Dobey, defense attorney. Why should Coburger get to keep these
crime scene photos and pour over them and delight in
them even sexually behind mars?
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Why should he get that.
Speaker 6 (45:12):
When the case is over, they're allowed to have it.
And the reason why is it's their file. A councilor
does not own the file where the mere custodian of it,
the guardian of it while their case is pending.
Speaker 7 (45:25):
But afterwards it is theirs to have.
Speaker 6 (45:28):
Unfortunately, that is the law, and in fact, if you
don't give it to them, the attorney can be in
trouble with the state bar.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Doctor Bethany Marshall, this is so wrong that these photos,
graphic photos of the victims are being released without the families. Okay,
and Coburger gets the photos. Can you imagine what he's doing.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
With the photos. And they're much worse than what we're
showing right now.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Their photos are all the dead bodies lying prone.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
It's much worse than what we're showing on air nancies.
Speaker 4 (46:05):
These photos are like a serial killer's pornography. Let's think
about the MO of these types of crimes. It is
to inflict maximum cruelty in order to achieve sexual pleasure.
That is the MO. Sadism is a perversion. People need
to know that it is a perversion. Voyeurism looking through
(46:27):
the windows, that is a perversion. So now this perverse, sadistic,
want to be serial killer has the crime scene photos.
What is he going to do? He's going to sit
in jail and masturbate all day long, and we've talked
about the families, the indignities inflicted upon them. They know this.
(46:51):
They're not stupid. They're listening to the news. They've studied psychopaths.
They know what's happening with their children's photos, crime scene photos.
They have to live with this for the rest of
their lives.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Noyle, tell me exactly what's going on one of our
one of the roommates who's passed out and she's drung
class and shall not wake me up?
Speaker 4 (47:12):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Oh, and they saw some man in their house house night.
Speaker 3 (47:16):
Yeah, his man.
Speaker 4 (47:18):
Are you in the patient?
Speaker 5 (47:19):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (47:20):
I need someone to keep the phone, stop passing it around.
Speaker 8 (47:23):
Can I just tell you what happened pretty much?
Speaker 4 (47:26):
What is going on currently? If someone passed out right.
Speaker 8 (47:28):
Now, I don't really know what pretty much thorim Okay.
Speaker 4 (47:33):
So I need to know what's going on right now?
Speaker 11 (47:34):
If someone has passed out, can you find that out now?
Speaker 4 (47:37):
I'll come come on with musical check.
Speaker 12 (47:41):
We have to.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Will the fads intervene and see the federal death penalty?
Will Coberger continue to wind me, me, me, me me,
because the other inmates are harassing him behind bars through
the air vents. What more will we learn about the
night these four students were brutally murdered, not in their sleep.
(48:09):
We wait as just as unfolds, and now we remember
an American hero, Deputy Sheriff ned Bird Wait County Sheriffs,
North Carolina, shot in the line of duty after thirteen
years in Ellie, leaving behind grieving sister Mignon American hero
Deputy Sheriff ned Bird Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friend.
Host
Nancy Grace
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