December 16, 2024 • 39 mins
The arrest affidavit for Brad Simpson, accused of murdering his wife, provides a detailed timeline of his activities the day before he reported her missing. The husband and father spent the day running suspicious errands, some of them in front of his 5-year-old daughter.
The day after neighbors overheard the Simpsons fighting, Brad Simpson’s truck filled and emptied as he drove around San Antonio. First, Simpson placed his phone in “lockdown mode,” preventing location tracking. Forced to rely on surveillance footage, police spotted Simpson’s truck at a grocery store at 12:33 a.m.
The truck bed was empty except for an ice chest. The next morning, when Simpson took his daughter to school, two full white trash bags had been added to the bed. Later, when Simpson was seen at a Boerne Whataburger drive-thru more than an hour later, police observed a heavy-duty trash can and a firewood rack weighing down an object covered by a blue tarp.
Law enforcement uncovered damning evidence that led a grand jury to indict Simpson not only for tampering with evidence but also for murder. Lab testing revealed Suzanne Simpson’s DNA on a reciprocating saw from Simpson’s toolbox.
In his first court appearance, Brad Simpson wore red prisoner attire with his hands cuffed in front of him. He swayed back and forth in his swivel chair, speaking only to confirm his identity and converse with his attorney.
Although the hearing was brief, Simpson was observed with what has been described as a sly grin.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Jeff Horny - Longtime Friend of Suzanne and Brad Simpson
- Caryn Stark - Psychologist, renowned TV and Radio trauma expert and consultant, www.carynstark.com, Instagram: carynpsych, FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice
- Ben Powers - Criminal Defense Attorney, Facebook: Legal Powers PLLC, https://legalpowers.com
- Brian Fitzgibbons - Director of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security, uspasecurity.com, Instagram: @uspa_nationwide_security, Fmr. Marine and Iraq war veteran
- Dr. Kendall Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County, Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University)
- Zachary-Taylor Wright - Trending Digital Reporter with MySA; website: MySanAntonio.com; Twitter: @Zachthereporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, missing Texas mom, luxury realtor.
Suzanne Simpson's DNA just found on her husband's hand held
reciprocating saw.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Let that sink in a moment.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Her DNA is on her husband's hand held reciprocating saw.
Why Imancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
They met in college at the University of Texas.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Nice guy, charismatic, engaging.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
You know, Suzanne was a little tiny thing.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
But for Suzanne, it wasn't perfect time.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
It's just tragic.
Speaker 5 (00:50):
Man.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
I can't even imagine she didn't deserve that at all.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
If just the thought of Suzanne's body out decomposing in
a trash site or a.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Disposal site is getting worse.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
The hand held reciprocating saul belonging to the husband absolutely
hass Anne Simpson's DNA on it? Why why would that
be there? Take a listen to what the almost pdchief
had to say.
Speaker 6 (01:20):
So we're holding out hope that maybe, you know, maybe
she's trying to be away from the home, to get
away from that situation. That's not totally uncommon, but what
is uncommon. What is unusual is that this was a
woman who worked and was very dependable and loved her
children and was always in contact with her children and
her family and her friends. We would love for her
(01:42):
to be alive. Obviously, there's nothing concrete that says she's
not alive. And again I owe it to the family.
We all owe it to the family to speak of
her in a way where other people have been found,
like I said, injured and distressed, lost, troubled, hiding away,
all of those things are possible.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Our friends at WAI joining me in Ulster panel to
make sense of what we are learning right now.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
This is not the update I wanted to report to
you tonight.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
For first out to Zachary Taylor Wright joining us, a
trending digital reporter with my essay my san Antonio. Zachary,
thank you so much for being with us. Explain to
me how the husband's reciprocating saw.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
You know what?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Just pause, Zachary. I want to hear everything you've got
to say. But for people that don't know what a
reciprocating saw is, let me go to doctor Kendall Crown's
joining us, the chief medical examiner in Tarrett County. That's
Fort Worth, the Texas jurisdiction esteemed lecturer at the Burnett
School of Medicine TCU, Doctor Kendall Crown, thank you so
(02:45):
much for being with us. Before I get into your
usual topics, and that is the discovery of bodies. What
you can tell from bodies, what you can tell from
an autopsy. Could you explain and demonstrate what is a
reciprocating saw?
Speaker 7 (03:02):
Certainly so. Reciprocating saws are saws that use a blade.
They actually have mine here is a large, fairly large saw.
It has a blade that goes backwards in the forwards,
which is the reciprocating.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
Movement of the saw.
Speaker 7 (03:17):
And they can be used to cut through metal, wood, bone, tissue,
you name it. They use them in the meat cutting
industry to cut apart cattle.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Hold on, let me see that again. Could you turn
that on one more time, Doctor Kimlin.
Speaker 8 (03:30):
Crown's sure.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Jeff Horny is joining me, right, I heard it. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Jeff Horny is with us right now, joining us from
San Antonio, longtime friend of both Susanne and Brad Simpson,
her husband, Jeff Horny.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I don't know how you can sit there and look
at that saw.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
It looks like a giant version of the electric knife
people use at Thanksgiving and Christmas to cut a turkey
or a roast or something.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Sure he knew what he was doing. Look at that, knowing, Suzanne.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
It's terrible, sad and disgusting actually, And he's a hunter.
You know, if you've used one of those saws, you
know that it's not real clean. It doesn't just make
a beautiful clean cut. And yes, I saw him in
the courtroom and he looked like he'd been doing push
(04:28):
ups for months.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
He looks like a thug is what he looks like,
what he's turned out to be.
Speaker 7 (04:33):
So it's sad.
Speaker 9 (04:35):
Man.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
We were talking to Jeff Horny, who's been a longtime
friend of not only Suzanne, the missing mom, but the husband.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Zachar Chell are right.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Thank you for holding a trending digital reporter with my
sa My san Antonio. Zachary, again, thank you for being
with us. I want to backtrack just a moment. You know,
I just heard Jeff Horny state that the husband, who
is presumed innocent under the law, these are just allegations
(05:04):
right now, Zachary.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I don't know how him.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Being a hunter has anything to do with his wife's
DNA being on a reciprocating so oh, I do I
do know the.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Connection he made.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
He was making the connection that the saw could be
let me just say, contaminated or still caked with animal
detrit us from prior hunting trips.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I don't know a nice way to say it. That's
why I'm searching for the words.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
But Zachary Taylor right, tell me how and where this
reciprocating saw it was discovered.
Speaker 8 (05:39):
So the reciprocating saw was discovered in Brett's possession and
their believing their family home, but it was hidden away,
which is part of his accusations against him, is that
he attempted to conceal it from investigators. And of course
the DNA did link back to Susannah.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Zachary, you stated that the DNA is found on Simpson's saw,
but where was the saw?
Speaker 8 (06:06):
The recif forgetting saw was found in Brad Simpson's.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Toolbox, you know, Zachary Tailor right?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Joining us from my san Antonio, Zachary, I understand that
the husband, Brad Simpson, tried to hide the saw.
Speaker 8 (06:22):
Absolutely, So that's part of the accusations made against him,
is that he attempted to conceal the saw from investigators initially,
and so when they were able to find it and
thenk it back to Suzanne, they charged him with tampering
with evidence.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Well, if it's right there in his toolbox, I don't
understand how he's trying to hide it. I'm certainly not
taking his side.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
But you know, Ben Power.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Is joining me, high profile defense attorney at legal Powers.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Then the worst thing.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
You can do if this ever makes it to a
jury is for the prosecutor to state something in opening statements.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Like yes, and he tried to hide the saw, and
then it comes out that he didn't.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Because if you're wrong as a prosecutor on one fact,
it taints everything else. It takes your good facts. So
when you stand up in front of a jury and
you say he tried to hide the saw, because you
know what the hiding part is the big indicator that
something the faarius has occurred. Being Powers, how do I
(07:20):
know she didn't try to use the saw one time
and cut her finger on I mean, it could be
a million things, but the fact that he then tried
to hide it puts.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
It in a whole another light.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Been Powers, Yeah, I agree, I think it's important that
if you're going to use the accusation that he tried
to hide the saw, and it turns out his toolbox. Obviously,
where that toolbox is found and you have the key
to hariving it, is trying to hide it. But I
agree with that. You just said you don't want to
lose credibility jury overstating or trying to extend your proof
(07:53):
beyond which your proof actually can show. And so I
think the importance to the saw in this context is
how its thread in the larger tapestry of the story.
And so I wouldn't unnecessarily try to extend it past
its value, which is her DNA's on the saw. And
for the States, that's a good fact. For the defense,
that's certainly a problem we're gonna have to address the trial.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Let me nail this down, Zachary tail all right, if
the saw with his wife's DNA on it, And you
know another thing I got to find out, Zachary, and
we may not know it yet, is it blood?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Because just go with me for a moment. Do I
believe this is true?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
No? Could one's your or believe it absolutely? What if
she was using a saw and she cut herself through it?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I believe this.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Luxury real estate mom was out working with a reciprocating saw.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
No, I don't, okay, but that is a legitimate argument
to be made to a jury. Or Zachary, what if.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
It is bone, Now that's a whole another can of worms.
What if it is hair? Hair, It could be a
number of things that would clearly tell a jury that
the saw was used on her to dismember her. So, ay,
I gotta nail down. Is it true he tried to
(09:13):
hide it? And you know what, Zachary, when you don't
know a horse, look at his track record.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
We already know he asked a friend. As a matter
of fact, I believe you told me this.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
He asked a friend to hide a gun, and the
friend hid the gun in a false wall, and the
gun was found, and the friend, of course blabbed he
told me to hide it. So we know he has
a track record of hiding evidence. Now that's one thing,
But that doesn't prove to me he tried to hide
this saw. I need to know how did he try
(09:42):
to hide the saw? Where are we getting that?
Speaker 8 (09:44):
So that comes directly from the charges against him, But
we don't have the exact details on where police found
the saw, other than it being in his toolbox. So
your points are completely accurate. And we also don't know
precisely what DNA they found.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
On the saw.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Brian is Gibbons joining me.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Brian is the director of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security,
who leads teams of investigators all around the country trying
to find missing people. Brian, just go with me for
a moment. The saw in the toolbox. That's not damning,
that's not incriminating. That means nothing to me. I need
(10:23):
to know what part of DNA, what type of DNA
is it? For instance, if it's hair and scalp, it's
over for him. If it's just a little blood, well
that could have an innocent explanation. Not that I believe it,
but it could. So what about this, Brian? If the
toolbox itself, we know the saw is in the toolbox,
But if the toolbox itself, let's just say was buried
(10:46):
in the backyard, Okay, that indicates nefarious intent. If it
was flung in a river, we have to know more
facts before we can just blurt out it was hidden.
Speaker 10 (10:56):
Yeah, as Attorney Ben Powers just said, we're looking at
a whole tapis story of things laid out in this
charging document. So where it was concealed, how it was
concealed is certainly going to come out later. But there
was a reason that investigators put that in the documents. Okay,
we see him concealing the cell phone, we see him
concealing the guns. Now we read about him concealing the saw.
(11:19):
They're laying out a pattern of behavior from Brad Simpson.
Speaker 8 (11:22):
Here.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
You know, Ryan, I gave up cursing, or I said
I was giving up cursing when I had the twins.
But on this special special occasion, let me just say,
they damn well better show me later. Because Karen Starke
joining me, a renounced psychologist, TV radio trauma expert. You
can find her at karenstart dot com. Karen, you know
(11:43):
I lived through the j Simpson trial, Mayhey Rottenhill.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
One little beauty thing, the glove, one little beauty thing.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And I guarantee you, Karen Stark, if I could have
gotten in that courtroom and gone up to Simpson, I
would have gotten that glove on his hand, no question,
but no doubt, one thing. That one thing tainted the
whole case. It messed up the whole case. Like here,
if the state says he hit it, and then you
(12:14):
can't prove he hit it.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
A technical legal term, they're screwed.
Speaker 8 (12:18):
You know.
Speaker 9 (12:19):
I would think, Nancy, that they would not say that
he was tampering with the evidence or hiding it unless
there was actually a reason.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Stop. Brother Kimble's.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Crowns is demonstrating what a reciprocating handheld saw is. Does
that come with another blade, a detachable blade?
Speaker 7 (12:41):
Yes, it comes with multiple different blades depending on what
you're trying to saw up. It can come with ones
that'll work on a metal. It also comes with ones
that'll trim trees, things of that nature.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
So for those of you just join medical examiner, doctor
Kendall Crown's is demonstrating a reciprocating saw. Go ahead, okay,
thank you, doctor Crowns. You know, to Zachary Taylor Wright,
(13:17):
the big bombshell tonight is that Suzanne's DNA is found
on that reciprocating saw. But there is other evidence that's
extremely disturbing.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
The problem with a reciprocating.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Saw is that in the leading up to tonight, we
were looking for a body because nobody wouldn't you agree,
Jeff Horney, There's no way Suzanne would have stayed away
from her children this long.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
No, absolutely not, so that means we're looking for a body.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
But now that the reciprocating saw has entered the scene
with her DNA on it, that means he has very
likely been dismembered. That is going to make the discovery
of her remains much more difficult.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
What does that mean to a prosecutor?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
That means this may very well be a no body case,
as in, there will never be a body discovered. But
what else do we know? Zachary Taylor, right and joining
us from my San Antonio. We were just describing Brad
Simpson going out for a what a burger?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
He certainly did not lose.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
His appetite in light of his wife missing. Now I
know I'm projecting Zachary Taylor, right, But when.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I learned my fiance had been murdered, I lost down
to eighty nine pounds.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
The thought of food literally made me sick, nauseous, and
I went so long. I remember the first thing I ingested,
and it was orange juice and something my mom had
in the fridge.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
So I know that's just my experience.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
But when I hear about Brad Simpson in the middle
of his wife missing, big out at what a Burger.
I'm not a shrink or a dietitian, but that just
doesn't sit right with me.
Speaker 8 (15:06):
I mean, we don't know exactly what he purchased at
Waterburger so far, but we do know that he did,
in fact stop at Waterburger with some we'll say, suspicious
items in his trunk that he later unloaded after making
two separate stops. And we also know, according to the
restaurant off A David, he's accused of burning the couple
(15:27):
of electronics as well out of bendera home.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
First of all, he puts his phone in quote lockdown mode.
Ryan Gibbons joining us USPA Nationwide Security. I don't know
what lockdown mode means. I guess that means like airplane mode.
Speaker 10 (15:45):
Right, this is gonna go, This is gonna go one
step beyond that, Nancy. So once that phone enters lockdown mode,
you have no data being transmitted from that phone to
the cloud, to any towers, So trep tracking Brad Simpson's
movements with the phone would become nearly impossible at that point.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Ben Powers joining me high profile lawyer with legal powers.
Ben kind of reminds me of Brian Coberger. Just so happens.
He turns his phone off exactly the time the four
University Idaho students are murdered in their beds. What a
coink you think, Ben?
Speaker 5 (16:26):
I do agree that taring off his phone is certainly
not a practice of the defense. You know. It definitely
is consistent with trying to have his activities where he's going,
what he's doing. There are other layers of allegations in
the war and against him the show. He's pretty active
after the altercation that he had of Suzanne and the
(16:49):
activity involved on the home depot to get different items
like trash bags, tarks, concrete buckets, things like that.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
There is the discovery we talked about Powers Powers the
phone being put in lockdown mode. Is that the same
thing as airplane mode? Or is it something more?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
What is it?
Speaker 5 (17:09):
It's something more. It's something that's intended to avoid hitting
those things on the towers so that he could conceal
his movements. Okay, the thing I guess he wasn't baking
on was his car head GPS line as well. So
kind of idiot defeated the purpose of what he hoped
to achieve.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
You know, Ben Powers, would you agree that at this
juncture in our technological world, a jury is going to
view putting your phone in airplane mode or lockdown.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
As being as bad as placing you at the scene.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
I mean, if he had had any sense at all,
he would have left his phone on at his home,
but instead he put it in lockdown. So I think
it has a very nefarious or sinister connotation to juries
because jury's didn't just fall off the turnip truck.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
They don't have their phone in lockdown. They may not
even know how to.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Find lockdown on their phone, so that is going to
signal to them that something sinister was happening.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
And I agree that the problem the state still has
got to have is that's all person would come in
after the fact, after the allegation that he killed Suzanne.
They don't have anything before. They don't have any premeditation,
any planning before. This is all posts and so they're
still going to have a problem with establishing, you know,
(18:32):
with this avoluntary manslaughter.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Ben Powers, You're right, they've got a problem.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Jeff Horney is joining us, a longtime friend of Susanne
and Brad Simpson's. You know, Jeff, how exactly do you
know them. Who did you know first?
Speaker 3 (18:54):
I knew Suzanne first, and then I I met Brad
after that, before they even know each other.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
So how would you describe him?
Speaker 3 (19:02):
You know, he was a different dude. He was a
little weird, a little different, but you know he was
he was always uh you know, smiling and and I'll
be honest with you. Being a year younger than me,
I didn't see him a lot. The only time I
(19:24):
saw him was back at the frat house and everybody
was drinking beer and and you know, doing doing what
we do there. So you know, I've spent a summer
with Brad before his freshman year, uh, you know, rushing
(19:46):
our fraternity and and getting to know him and trying
to get him to.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Okay, well, I don't need to hear about rush season.
What I want to hear about Jeff Horny is when
you said he was odd.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
That's what I want to hear about. You know the
old quote everyone.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Is odd but me and the and I think the
a bit queer at times.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
What that means, h and.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Everyday parlance is everybody thinks everybody else is weird but themselves. Okay,
So when you say he was odd, you just can't
put that out there and leave it hanging.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
What did he do that was odd?
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Well, he never went anywhere with Suzanne. She was always
by herself, football games, by yourself, to watch her daughter's
cheer parties by yourself. Never Brad was was was very
rarely there. So that was that was that was odd
to me. You know, I don't know what else you
(20:44):
want me to say.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I was around.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
I was around them because I Suzanne was a friend
of mine. You know, she's the one that would call
me and invite me to their parties. I wasn't you know,
Brad would not call me and and invite me. Uh
he he is a you know, again, the the community
(21:09):
is is a a party driven community. You know, there
was a lot of partying and alcohol. And there's this
group of mainly Alamo Heights men that raised money for
underprivileged folks and they they the cavaliers is what they're called.
(21:34):
And he was a cavalier. So you know, he had
some good qualities. I think, uh you know, I think
he might have been an okay father and and took
his kids hunting and fishing. I just know he was
not a very good husband.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
I don't know that allegedly murdering the mother of your children.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Qualifies as being a good thought. Hey, Zachary Taylor, right,
got a question for you.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I'm trying to go along with the police and these
recent court filings as to everything that they have uncovered
with his phone in lockdown mode, police had to go
to extreme methods gathering surveillance video from all over homes, businesses, red.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Lights, you name it.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Let me talk to you about that, because what they
have put together without the use of his phone is
survellance video showing his truck at a grocery store twelve
thirty three am. Uh oh, he must have had a
snack attack. Twelve thirty three am, he said, the grocery store.
Nothing in the bed of his truck but an ice chest.
(22:40):
Then when he takes his daughter to school the next morning,
where was Susanne she normally takes him to school. There
are two full white trash bags added in the truck bed.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Okay. Then when he's spotted at that Bernie Whatburger an
hour later. Now he's got.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
A heavy duty trash can with the firewood rat weighing
down an object now covered with the blue tarp. Wow,
a lot happened after he dropped his daughter off huh absolutely.
Speaker 8 (23:09):
He also made a stop at a home depot where
he bought concrete, a large bucket, and some I believe
cleaning spray with bleach before he asks for directions to
the nearest dump site.
Speaker 11 (23:22):
Simpson then stops at the Bernie home depot. Simpson buys
concrete mix, a bucket, trash bags, and chlorox spray. On
his way out, Simpson asks for directions to the nearest dump.
Surveillance footage captures Simpson leaving the dump then stopping for gas.
The two white trash bags are no longer in the bed.
Simpson then drives to Medina, just west of the family
(23:44):
home in Bandera. When Simpson is spotted again back in Bernie,
the tarp and whatever was underneath it are gone.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
Simpson is on his way back from Bernie when he
receives the call, but Suzanne isn't there for their daughter.
Simpson picks her up around three point thirty, then heads
to his usual car wash with her. Video shows Simpson
washing the interior around the driver's seat and rear left
passenger seat, cleaning up what he claims were concrete stains.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
In his car, Cleaning up the vehicle at the car wash.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
You know, straight out of the playbook. A Photus Dulos.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
You know, Dulos charged in the murder of his wife,
a Connecticut mother of five, and police in Connecticut did
an incredible job of pacing together video from all sorts
of origins.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
You know what, listen, investigators believe photos.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Dulos parks his employees read Tacoma a few blocks from
Jennifer Dulo's home, then rides a bike the rest of
the way, lying in wait for her to return. After
attacking her in the garage, cops believe Dulo's loads Jennifer,
dead or unconscious in the back of her own suv,
then transfers her body into the Tacoma. Less than a
(24:59):
week later, without his employees knowledge, Dulas takes the truck again.
Doulos is caught on video paying for a car wash
in cash. His girlfriend, Michelle Traconis, later tells authorities he
was trying to clean a coffee spill. Despite Doulo's efforts,
investigators still managed to recover Jennifer Dulos's DNA from the
passenger seat.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
To Ben Power's high profile defense attorney, why is it
when there is a murder or somebody goes missing Suddenly husbands.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
And or suspects turn into Nate Nicks. You remember.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Jody Arias did all the laundry after she murdered Travis Alexander. Whoopsie,
She left her digital camera in the laundry, and you
see her foot by the dead body in the digitcam
out to that hurt. Then Scott Peterson went on a
laundry jag Clton doing all the laundry in the home
and cleaning up.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
It goes on and on and on. Ben Powers, thank.
Speaker 5 (25:58):
You for the obvious very active and very busy and
whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Powers, weren't you the veteran defense attorney, because.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I'm hearing an echo. You're just saying what I just said.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
What's your defense in this case of Simpson cleaning out
his vehicle around the time his wife goes missing.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
I think at most you can just say it's odd
because they still don't have a body. They don't have
anything to say how he took her life, when he
took her life, where he took her life, where he
just remembered her, where she is if he did dismember her.
At the moment, all they have is DNA on the
boatsaw that no one can really explain. There's a lot
of speculation that can go.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Okay, okay, point will taken, Ben Powers, point will taken.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Zacharychill are right? Tell me about his movements that day.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
I want to talk about the tarp, the bleach that
stops at the grocery at twelve thirty in the morning,
then going to a dump site, then.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Driving all around.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
The area making stops, and all those bags of trash
then disappear every time he makes a stop. In a
surveillance video, something's been moved out of the bed of
his trunk. So why is it that day suddenly it's
in and out, in and out with the truck bed
just tons of trash bags a tart for Pete's sake.
Speaker 8 (27:15):
I can't tell you why he did it. All I
can do is tell you what he's accused of doing,
and that is, like you mentioned, starting the morning with
some suspicious activity, including driving out to Bernie after dropping
off his daughter with only a nice chest in his trunk,
and the art starting in the bed of his truck
(27:35):
before he's then seen in Bernie with you know, large
trash fins and then stops at home depot, where he's
then seen that water burger with the large object covered
by a tarp, and then he asks for directions to
the nearest dump there and Bernie, and he's shortly seen
(27:55):
on surveillance camera footage after visiting the dep with the
two tryack's gone, but he still has the large item
covered with the tart. He then proceeds to drive to Bandera,
which officers reportedly know from license plate readers and other
surveillance footage that they see of his truck driving out there.
He then stops in Bandera for only less than fifteen
(28:17):
minutes before he's done seen driving back towards Bernie with
the tart and the large item under the tar being gone.
He's unseen on surveillance footage picking up his daughter and
all of those suspicious items from the back of his
truck are gone.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Jeff Horny, longtime friend of both Susanne and Brad Simpson.
I got to figure out how smart and or dumb
is your friend, Brad Simpson, because.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
It's like the same old playbook.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Come on, this is the same exact thing Fotus Dulos did.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Okay, there's a copious amount.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Of blood found in the garage outside of Jennifer's car
after she came back from drop off that morning at school.
She's never been found, but he Traconas and his girlfriend,
that's certainly one way to put it. Michelle Traconas are
caught on video driving all around town going to I
believe it was five different trash receptacles caught on video
(29:26):
throwing away sponges, rags, towels all soaked in blood. The wife,
Jennifer Dulos shirt and bras soaked in blood.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
So how smart is.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Simpson because he's just doing the same old playbook for
Pete's sake.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
I don't think he's very smart. I'm you know, after
I heard that they found the found her DNA on
the reciprocating saw.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
He's crazy.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
I mean, I don't know what he could have to
get all that done in the few hours that he
got done. I'd like to know what he was on
to do that, you know?
Speaker 5 (30:10):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Has Brian Fitzgibbons, Brian, do you ever wish that suspect,
of course he's presumed innocent, would do something different? I mean,
don't you know that if the authorities have already gotten
him on video at the water Burger and the grocery
store and the here and the there. They're going to
have video of him disposing of stuff, although he may
(30:37):
have disposed of it in a remote area where we're
never going to find it.
Speaker 10 (30:40):
Yeah, Nancy, at this point that I certainly wish all
the time that you know, a defendant would come forward
with the truth. Right, But at this point we're probably
dealing with multiple disposal sites, potentially bodies of water, potentially
different dump sites, and uh, you know this, this is
going to be very complicated. But so far as a wish,
(31:02):
of course, I feel that all the time, I wish
you'd come forward and give us the truth.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
A major update in the search for Suzanne Simpson, the
missing Texas mom luxury realtor Listen It's.
Speaker 6 (31:14):
Part Police Department, along with the Texas Rangers, have charged
Brad Chandler Simpson with murder in the death of his wife,
Suzanne Clark Simpson.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
The Rangers have not.
Speaker 12 (31:24):
Stopped investigating this case, as it has been turned over
to the District Attorney's apartment. The District Attorney starts their
process in the prosecution phase. Even though we are not
stopping our search for Suzanne Clark Simpson.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
That from our friends at k e NS five and
you were hearing the almost part chief of police for
Dale Valet House and Sergeant Dion Cockrell from the Texas
Department of Public Safety. So now there is a formal
charge the district attorney now starting the prosecution phase. Will
more be made clear? Maybe not. We don't have a
(31:58):
right to know all of the details surrounding this case.
Straight out to doctor Kendall Crown's chief medical examiner in
Terran County, that's Fort Worth, Texas, doctor Kendall Crowns.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I'm thinking back on photos.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Dulos and how he and his lover, Michelle Chaconis were
hiding Jennifer, the mother of his five children. I mean
hiding throwing away into dumpsters, into trash receptacles all over town.
What man throws the same bag of trash in five
different trash cans?
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Okay, food for thought.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
But if we find, if we discover that Susanne has
been dismembered, that could mean anything from a leg to
a digit. So how do you go about if any
part of her is found connecting that back to Susanne Simpson.
Speaker 7 (32:55):
So well, what you would have to do is whatever
you receive, you get tissue, bone, marrow, whatever you can
pull off of it, and then submit that for DNA.
If it happened to be a finger, you could actually
get fingerprints from it if it's still intact enough, and
you could do it that way. But in this type
of case, with the parts being found over time, that
(33:17):
each part that is found is going to have to
have DNA testing done on it to make sure it's
from her. But once you do find a part, especially
if it's like a large portion, like a thigh or
something like that, you know she's been murdered. You know
she's been cut up.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Joining me is renowned psychologist Karen Start joining us from Manhattan. Karen,
the loss of your mother is overwhelming, I've been told,
But then the additional shock that she'sn't been murdered, then
the additional shock that she has been dismembered. Now, if
(33:55):
the children don't accept that, they are left with the
specter of my mom's not dead, she just abandoned me.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
So what are your thoughts?
Speaker 9 (34:07):
Well, no matter which way this turns out, Nancy, these
children don't have a mother anymore. So there is so
much they've been exposed to. They're going to need a
tremendous amount.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Of help in my hand.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
The newly released charging documents straight out to my Saint
Antonio Zachary tail all right, Zachary, tell me in a
nutshell about these allegations, and they are only that allegations.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
He has not been proven guilty. What do you know?
Speaker 8 (34:33):
So I know he's been charged with the murder of
Suzanne Simpson, and I also know he's been charged with
two bounts of tempering with evidence. One is linked to
the gun that he had his friend had and the
reciprocating saw that they alleged that he attempted to conceal
from investigators. Then he was also charged with tempering with
evidence with the intent to conceal his wife's body, although
(34:58):
very little information has been present on that charge. And
then those are the charges he's facing, but they're all
being questioned by his defense attorney.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
In the last hours.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Brad Simpson in court before Judge Joel Petz with the
attorneys identified themselves.
Speaker 8 (35:16):
He's a stand up appreciation. See you can get more
from mister Simpsons.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Okay, and so are you, Brad Chandler Simpson.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
That from our friends aka b Zachary Taylor. What happened
in court.
Speaker 8 (35:26):
There is quite a bit that's set to happen in
the coming months. He Brad Simpson is said to be
before the judge again on December nineteenth. Now that's a
motion to amend conditions. But very little has been filed
with the court to tell us or offer any kind
of insight into what his defense attorney might be looking
to do, although in the past he has sought to
(35:49):
reduce the bond amount and change the bond conditions to
allow him to see his children. And then he'll be
back before the judge on February twelve.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Well, you're right again. You don't know a horse. Look
at his track record.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Now Brad Simpson is demanding that the charges be thrown out.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Listen, there's emotion to quash the inditement, which I think
we will dedigate as a leader date.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
That's for our friends at kabb to ben powers in
a nutshell, Ben a nutshell. The state doesn't give a
killer a gold star or an A plus plus because
they get rid of the body.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
That's not happening.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
The state doesn't have to lay out in the indictment
how the victim was killed.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
If they can prove it, sure, put it in.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
There, for instance, by manual strangulation, by shooting with the weapon,
by stabbing, But it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
The state doesn't have to prove how she was killed.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
They just have to convince a jury that she has
been killed and that he did it in this jurisdiction.
Speaker 5 (36:49):
Well, I disagree with that. They have to lay out
what their theory of the killing is. You know, there's
a big difference between a voluntary manslaughter, which is a
accidental killing, and a first degree murder, which is premeditated killing.
It sounds like his defense attorneys are saying, you're saying
he killed her, but you're not telling us how when
where any of the important details that go to your
(37:10):
theory of premeditation, And so that's what they're attacking with
their most recent silence is the lack of proof that
goes towards premeditation, like the state is trying to make
it out to be.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
So, Ben Powers, let me understand in your mind, the
state has to lay out the exact mode of murder.
So you've never encountered a case where there was no
body to be found and the mode of murder was unknown.
Are you telling me, You've never seen a no body
(37:40):
case indictment.
Speaker 5 (37:41):
What I'm saying is this most recent motion sounds like
what I would call a deal. In particular, it's basically
the defense throwing down the gauntlet and saying, okay, state,
you say my client premeditated killed this person.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
I know what they filed, Ben, I know what the
defense filed. We just had reporters say that. But then
you said the dight must show mode i've murder.
Speaker 5 (38:02):
When I say mode, I mean in this case, they're
saying it's premeditated, and then must include a factual allegation
that supports premeditation being charged.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
For all of you would be wife killers out there,
an indictment does not have to show how you killed
your partner, Okay, you getting rid of the body is
not going to help you. And in Diamond only has
to allege that you committed premeditated murder the jurisdiction in
(38:33):
the name of the victim.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
The rest can be proven at trial. The state is
still building its case.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
If you know or think you know anything.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
About the disappearance of Texas's mom, Suzanne Simpson, or the
movements of her husband, Brad Simpson, who is presumed innocent.
Please dial two one zero two zero nine to seven
zero one two one zero two zero nine two seven
zero one. Let's remember now an American hero David Ennsbrenner Atchison,
(39:11):
p D. Kansas, shot and killed in the line of duty.
Served twenty four years in law enforcement. Survived by wife
now widow, Carrie, and children without a father, Avery, Abby
and Celia. American hero Sergeant David Ennsbrenner. Nancy Gray signing
off goodbye friend.
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, missing Texas mom, luxury realtor.
Suzanne Simpson's DNA just found on her husband's hand held
reciprocating saw.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Let that sink in a moment.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Her DNA is on her husband's hand held reciprocating saw.
Why Imancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
They met in college at the University of Texas.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Nice guy, charismatic, engaging.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
You know, Suzanne was a little tiny thing.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
But for Suzanne, it wasn't perfect time.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
It's just tragic.
Speaker 5 (00:50):
Man.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
I can't even imagine she didn't deserve that at all.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
If just the thought of Suzanne's body out decomposing in
a trash site or a.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Disposal site is getting worse.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
The hand held reciprocating saul belonging to the husband absolutely
hass Anne Simpson's DNA on it? Why why would that
be there? Take a listen to what the almost pdchief
had to say.
Speaker 6 (01:20):
So we're holding out hope that maybe, you know, maybe
she's trying to be away from the home, to get
away from that situation. That's not totally uncommon, but what
is uncommon. What is unusual is that this was a
woman who worked and was very dependable and loved her
children and was always in contact with her children and
her family and her friends. We would love for her
(01:42):
to be alive. Obviously, there's nothing concrete that says she's
not alive. And again I owe it to the family.
We all owe it to the family to speak of
her in a way where other people have been found,
like I said, injured and distressed, lost, troubled, hiding away,
all of those things are possible.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Our friends at WAI joining me in Ulster panel to
make sense of what we are learning right now.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
This is not the update I wanted to report to
you tonight.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
For first out to Zachary Taylor Wright joining us, a
trending digital reporter with my essay my san Antonio. Zachary,
thank you so much for being with us. Explain to
me how the husband's reciprocating saw.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
You know what?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Just pause, Zachary. I want to hear everything you've got
to say. But for people that don't know what a
reciprocating saw is, let me go to doctor Kendall Crown's
joining us, the chief medical examiner in Tarrett County. That's
Fort Worth, the Texas jurisdiction esteemed lecturer at the Burnett
School of Medicine TCU, Doctor Kendall Crown, thank you so
(02:45):
much for being with us. Before I get into your
usual topics, and that is the discovery of bodies. What
you can tell from bodies, what you can tell from
an autopsy. Could you explain and demonstrate what is a
reciprocating saw?
Speaker 7 (03:02):
Certainly so. Reciprocating saws are saws that use a blade.
They actually have mine here is a large, fairly large saw.
It has a blade that goes backwards in the forwards,
which is the reciprocating.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
Movement of the saw.
Speaker 7 (03:17):
And they can be used to cut through metal, wood, bone, tissue,
you name it. They use them in the meat cutting
industry to cut apart cattle.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Hold on, let me see that again. Could you turn
that on one more time, Doctor Kimlin.
Speaker 8 (03:30):
Crown's sure.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Jeff Horny is joining me, right, I heard it. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Jeff Horny is with us right now, joining us from
San Antonio, longtime friend of both Susanne and Brad Simpson,
her husband, Jeff Horny.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I don't know how you can sit there and look
at that saw.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
It looks like a giant version of the electric knife
people use at Thanksgiving and Christmas to cut a turkey
or a roast or something.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Sure he knew what he was doing. Look at that, knowing, Suzanne.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
It's terrible, sad and disgusting actually, And he's a hunter.
You know, if you've used one of those saws, you
know that it's not real clean. It doesn't just make
a beautiful clean cut. And yes, I saw him in
the courtroom and he looked like he'd been doing push
(04:28):
ups for months.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
He looks like a thug is what he looks like,
what he's turned out to be.
Speaker 7 (04:33):
So it's sad.
Speaker 9 (04:35):
Man.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
We were talking to Jeff Horny, who's been a longtime
friend of not only Suzanne, the missing mom, but the husband.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Zachar Chell are right.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Thank you for holding a trending digital reporter with my
sa My san Antonio. Zachary, again, thank you for being
with us. I want to backtrack just a moment. You know,
I just heard Jeff Horny state that the husband, who
is presumed innocent under the law, these are just allegations
(05:04):
right now, Zachary.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I don't know how him.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Being a hunter has anything to do with his wife's
DNA being on a reciprocating so oh, I do I
do know the.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Connection he made.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
He was making the connection that the saw could be
let me just say, contaminated or still caked with animal
detrit us from prior hunting trips.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
I don't know a nice way to say it. That's
why I'm searching for the words.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
But Zachary Taylor right, tell me how and where this
reciprocating saw it was discovered.
Speaker 8 (05:39):
So the reciprocating saw was discovered in Brett's possession and
their believing their family home, but it was hidden away,
which is part of his accusations against him, is that
he attempted to conceal it from investigators. And of course
the DNA did link back to Susannah.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Zachary, you stated that the DNA is found on Simpson's saw,
but where was the saw?
Speaker 8 (06:06):
The recif forgetting saw was found in Brad Simpson's.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Toolbox, you know, Zachary Tailor right?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Joining us from my san Antonio, Zachary, I understand that
the husband, Brad Simpson, tried to hide the saw.
Speaker 8 (06:22):
Absolutely, So that's part of the accusations made against him,
is that he attempted to conceal the saw from investigators initially,
and so when they were able to find it and
thenk it back to Suzanne, they charged him with tampering
with evidence.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Well, if it's right there in his toolbox, I don't
understand how he's trying to hide it. I'm certainly not
taking his side.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
But you know, Ben Power.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Is joining me, high profile defense attorney at legal Powers.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Then the worst thing.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
You can do if this ever makes it to a
jury is for the prosecutor to state something in opening statements.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Like yes, and he tried to hide the saw, and
then it comes out that he didn't.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Because if you're wrong as a prosecutor on one fact,
it taints everything else. It takes your good facts. So
when you stand up in front of a jury and
you say he tried to hide the saw, because you
know what the hiding part is the big indicator that
something the faarius has occurred. Being Powers, how do I
(07:20):
know she didn't try to use the saw one time
and cut her finger on I mean, it could be
a million things, but the fact that he then tried
to hide it puts.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
It in a whole another light.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Been Powers, Yeah, I agree, I think it's important that
if you're going to use the accusation that he tried
to hide the saw, and it turns out his toolbox. Obviously,
where that toolbox is found and you have the key
to hariving it, is trying to hide it. But I
agree with that. You just said you don't want to
lose credibility jury overstating or trying to extend your proof
(07:53):
beyond which your proof actually can show. And so I
think the importance to the saw in this context is
how its thread in the larger tapestry of the story.
And so I wouldn't unnecessarily try to extend it past
its value, which is her DNA's on the saw. And
for the States, that's a good fact. For the defense,
that's certainly a problem we're gonna have to address the trial.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Let me nail this down, Zachary tail all right, if
the saw with his wife's DNA on it, And you
know another thing I got to find out, Zachary, and
we may not know it yet, is it blood?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Because just go with me for a moment. Do I
believe this is true?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
No? Could one's your or believe it absolutely? What if
she was using a saw and she cut herself through it?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I believe this.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Luxury real estate mom was out working with a reciprocating saw.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
No, I don't, okay, but that is a legitimate argument
to be made to a jury. Or Zachary, what if.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
It is bone, Now that's a whole another can of worms.
What if it is hair? Hair, It could be a
number of things that would clearly tell a jury that
the saw was used on her to dismember her. So, ay,
I gotta nail down. Is it true he tried to
(09:13):
hide it? And you know what, Zachary, when you don't
know a horse, look at his track record.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
We already know he asked a friend. As a matter
of fact, I believe you told me this.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
He asked a friend to hide a gun, and the
friend hid the gun in a false wall, and the
gun was found, and the friend, of course blabbed he
told me to hide it. So we know he has
a track record of hiding evidence. Now that's one thing,
But that doesn't prove to me he tried to hide
this saw. I need to know how did he try
(09:42):
to hide the saw? Where are we getting that?
Speaker 8 (09:44):
So that comes directly from the charges against him, But
we don't have the exact details on where police found
the saw, other than it being in his toolbox. So
your points are completely accurate. And we also don't know
precisely what DNA they found.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
On the saw.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Brian is Gibbons joining me.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Brian is the director of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security,
who leads teams of investigators all around the country trying
to find missing people. Brian, just go with me for
a moment. The saw in the toolbox. That's not damning,
that's not incriminating. That means nothing to me. I need
(10:23):
to know what part of DNA, what type of DNA
is it? For instance, if it's hair and scalp, it's
over for him. If it's just a little blood, well
that could have an innocent explanation. Not that I believe it,
but it could. So what about this, Brian? If the
toolbox itself, we know the saw is in the toolbox,
But if the toolbox itself, let's just say was buried
(10:46):
in the backyard, Okay, that indicates nefarious intent. If it
was flung in a river, we have to know more
facts before we can just blurt out it was hidden.
Speaker 10 (10:56):
Yeah, as Attorney Ben Powers just said, we're looking at
a whole tapis story of things laid out in this
charging document. So where it was concealed, how it was
concealed is certainly going to come out later. But there
was a reason that investigators put that in the documents. Okay,
we see him concealing the cell phone, we see him
concealing the guns. Now we read about him concealing the saw.
(11:19):
They're laying out a pattern of behavior from Brad Simpson.
Speaker 8 (11:22):
Here.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
You know, Ryan, I gave up cursing, or I said
I was giving up cursing when I had the twins.
But on this special special occasion, let me just say,
they damn well better show me later. Because Karen Starke
joining me, a renounced psychologist, TV radio trauma expert. You
can find her at karenstart dot com. Karen, you know
(11:43):
I lived through the j Simpson trial, Mayhey Rottenhill.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
One little beauty thing, the glove, one little beauty thing.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
And I guarantee you, Karen Stark, if I could have
gotten in that courtroom and gone up to Simpson, I
would have gotten that glove on his hand, no question,
but no doubt, one thing. That one thing tainted the
whole case. It messed up the whole case. Like here,
if the state says he hit it, and then you
(12:14):
can't prove he hit it.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
A technical legal term, they're screwed.
Speaker 8 (12:18):
You know.
Speaker 9 (12:19):
I would think, Nancy, that they would not say that
he was tampering with the evidence or hiding it unless
there was actually a reason.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Stop. Brother Kimble's.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Crowns is demonstrating what a reciprocating handheld saw is. Does
that come with another blade, a detachable blade?
Speaker 7 (12:41):
Yes, it comes with multiple different blades depending on what
you're trying to saw up. It can come with ones
that'll work on a metal. It also comes with ones
that'll trim trees, things of that nature.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
So for those of you just join medical examiner, doctor
Kendall Crown's is demonstrating a reciprocating saw. Go ahead, okay,
thank you, doctor Crowns. You know, to Zachary Taylor Wright,
(13:17):
the big bombshell tonight is that Suzanne's DNA is found
on that reciprocating saw. But there is other evidence that's
extremely disturbing.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
The problem with a reciprocating.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Saw is that in the leading up to tonight, we
were looking for a body because nobody wouldn't you agree,
Jeff Horney, There's no way Suzanne would have stayed away
from her children this long.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
No, absolutely not, so that means we're looking for a body.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
But now that the reciprocating saw has entered the scene
with her DNA on it, that means he has very
likely been dismembered. That is going to make the discovery
of her remains much more difficult.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
What does that mean to a prosecutor?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
That means this may very well be a no body case,
as in, there will never be a body discovered. But
what else do we know? Zachary Taylor, right and joining
us from my San Antonio. We were just describing Brad
Simpson going out for a what a burger?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
He certainly did not lose.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
His appetite in light of his wife missing. Now I
know I'm projecting Zachary Taylor, right, But when.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I learned my fiance had been murdered, I lost down
to eighty nine pounds.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
The thought of food literally made me sick, nauseous, and
I went so long. I remember the first thing I ingested,
and it was orange juice and something my mom had
in the fridge.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
So I know that's just my experience.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
But when I hear about Brad Simpson in the middle
of his wife missing, big out at what a Burger.
I'm not a shrink or a dietitian, but that just
doesn't sit right with me.
Speaker 8 (15:06):
I mean, we don't know exactly what he purchased at
Waterburger so far, but we do know that he did,
in fact stop at Waterburger with some we'll say, suspicious
items in his trunk that he later unloaded after making
two separate stops. And we also know, according to the
restaurant off A David, he's accused of burning the couple
(15:27):
of electronics as well out of bendera home.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
First of all, he puts his phone in quote lockdown mode.
Ryan Gibbons joining us USPA Nationwide Security. I don't know
what lockdown mode means. I guess that means like airplane mode.
Speaker 10 (15:45):
Right, this is gonna go, This is gonna go one
step beyond that, Nancy. So once that phone enters lockdown mode,
you have no data being transmitted from that phone to
the cloud, to any towers, So trep tracking Brad Simpson's
movements with the phone would become nearly impossible at that point.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Ben Powers joining me high profile lawyer with legal powers.
Ben kind of reminds me of Brian Coberger. Just so happens.
He turns his phone off exactly the time the four
University Idaho students are murdered in their beds. What a
coink you think, Ben?
Speaker 5 (16:26):
I do agree that taring off his phone is certainly
not a practice of the defense. You know. It definitely
is consistent with trying to have his activities where he's going,
what he's doing. There are other layers of allegations in
the war and against him the show. He's pretty active
after the altercation that he had of Suzanne and the
(16:49):
activity involved on the home depot to get different items
like trash bags, tarks, concrete buckets, things like that.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
There is the discovery we talked about Powers Powers the
phone being put in lockdown mode. Is that the same
thing as airplane mode? Or is it something more?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
What is it?
Speaker 5 (17:09):
It's something more. It's something that's intended to avoid hitting
those things on the towers so that he could conceal
his movements. Okay, the thing I guess he wasn't baking
on was his car head GPS line as well. So
kind of idiot defeated the purpose of what he hoped
to achieve.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
You know, Ben Powers, would you agree that at this
juncture in our technological world, a jury is going to
view putting your phone in airplane mode or lockdown.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
As being as bad as placing you at the scene.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
I mean, if he had had any sense at all,
he would have left his phone on at his home,
but instead he put it in lockdown. So I think
it has a very nefarious or sinister connotation to juries
because jury's didn't just fall off the turnip truck.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
They don't have their phone in lockdown. They may not
even know how to.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Find lockdown on their phone, so that is going to
signal to them that something sinister was happening.
Speaker 5 (18:11):
And I agree that the problem the state still has
got to have is that's all person would come in
after the fact, after the allegation that he killed Suzanne.
They don't have anything before. They don't have any premeditation,
any planning before. This is all posts and so they're
still going to have a problem with establishing, you know,
(18:32):
with this avoluntary manslaughter.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Ben Powers, You're right, they've got a problem.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Jeff Horney is joining us, a longtime friend of Susanne
and Brad Simpson's. You know, Jeff, how exactly do you
know them. Who did you know first?
Speaker 3 (18:54):
I knew Suzanne first, and then I I met Brad
after that, before they even know each other.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
So how would you describe him?
Speaker 3 (19:02):
You know, he was a different dude. He was a
little weird, a little different, but you know he was
he was always uh you know, smiling and and I'll
be honest with you. Being a year younger than me,
I didn't see him a lot. The only time I
(19:24):
saw him was back at the frat house and everybody
was drinking beer and and you know, doing doing what
we do there. So you know, I've spent a summer
with Brad before his freshman year, uh, you know, rushing
(19:46):
our fraternity and and getting to know him and trying
to get him to.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Okay, well, I don't need to hear about rush season.
What I want to hear about Jeff Horny is when
you said he was odd.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
That's what I want to hear about. You know the
old quote everyone.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Is odd but me and the and I think the
a bit queer at times.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
What that means, h and.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Everyday parlance is everybody thinks everybody else is weird but themselves. Okay,
So when you say he was odd, you just can't
put that out there and leave it hanging.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
What did he do that was odd?
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Well, he never went anywhere with Suzanne. She was always
by herself, football games, by yourself, to watch her daughter's
cheer parties by yourself. Never Brad was was was very
rarely there. So that was that was that was odd
to me. You know, I don't know what else you
(20:44):
want me to say.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I was around.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
I was around them because I Suzanne was a friend
of mine. You know, she's the one that would call
me and invite me to their parties. I wasn't you know,
Brad would not call me and and invite me. Uh
he he is a you know, again, the the community
(21:09):
is is a a party driven community. You know, there
was a lot of partying and alcohol. And there's this
group of mainly Alamo Heights men that raised money for
underprivileged folks and they they the cavaliers is what they're called.
(21:34):
And he was a cavalier. So you know, he had
some good qualities. I think, uh you know, I think
he might have been an okay father and and took
his kids hunting and fishing. I just know he was
not a very good husband.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
I don't know that allegedly murdering the mother of your children.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Qualifies as being a good thought. Hey, Zachary Taylor, right,
got a question for you.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I'm trying to go along with the police and these
recent court filings as to everything that they have uncovered
with his phone in lockdown mode, police had to go
to extreme methods gathering surveillance video from all over homes, businesses, red.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Lights, you name it.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Let me talk to you about that, because what they
have put together without the use of his phone is
survellance video showing his truck at a grocery store twelve
thirty three am. Uh oh, he must have had a
snack attack. Twelve thirty three am, he said, the grocery store.
Nothing in the bed of his truck but an ice chest.
(22:40):
Then when he takes his daughter to school the next morning,
where was Susanne she normally takes him to school. There
are two full white trash bags added in the truck bed.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Okay. Then when he's spotted at that Bernie Whatburger an
hour later. Now he's got.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
A heavy duty trash can with the firewood rat weighing
down an object now covered with the blue tarp. Wow,
a lot happened after he dropped his daughter off huh absolutely.
Speaker 8 (23:09):
He also made a stop at a home depot where
he bought concrete, a large bucket, and some I believe
cleaning spray with bleach before he asks for directions to
the nearest dump site.
Speaker 11 (23:22):
Simpson then stops at the Bernie home depot. Simpson buys
concrete mix, a bucket, trash bags, and chlorox spray. On
his way out, Simpson asks for directions to the nearest dump.
Surveillance footage captures Simpson leaving the dump then stopping for gas.
The two white trash bags are no longer in the bed.
Simpson then drives to Medina, just west of the family
(23:44):
home in Bandera. When Simpson is spotted again back in Bernie,
the tarp and whatever was underneath it are gone.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
Simpson is on his way back from Bernie when he
receives the call, but Suzanne isn't there for their daughter.
Simpson picks her up around three point thirty, then heads
to his usual car wash with her. Video shows Simpson
washing the interior around the driver's seat and rear left
passenger seat, cleaning up what he claims were concrete stains.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
In his car, Cleaning up the vehicle at the car wash.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
You know, straight out of the playbook. A Photus Dulos.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
You know, Dulos charged in the murder of his wife,
a Connecticut mother of five, and police in Connecticut did
an incredible job of pacing together video from all sorts
of origins.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
You know what, listen, investigators believe photos.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Dulos parks his employees read Tacoma a few blocks from
Jennifer Dulo's home, then rides a bike the rest of
the way, lying in wait for her to return. After
attacking her in the garage, cops believe Dulo's loads Jennifer,
dead or unconscious in the back of her own suv,
then transfers her body into the Tacoma. Less than a
(24:59):
week later, without his employees knowledge, Dulas takes the truck again.
Doulos is caught on video paying for a car wash
in cash. His girlfriend, Michelle Traconis, later tells authorities he
was trying to clean a coffee spill. Despite Doulo's efforts,
investigators still managed to recover Jennifer Dulos's DNA from the
passenger seat.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
To Ben Power's high profile defense attorney, why is it
when there is a murder or somebody goes missing Suddenly husbands.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
And or suspects turn into Nate Nicks. You remember.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Jody Arias did all the laundry after she murdered Travis Alexander. Whoopsie,
She left her digital camera in the laundry, and you
see her foot by the dead body in the digitcam
out to that hurt. Then Scott Peterson went on a
laundry jag Clton doing all the laundry in the home
and cleaning up.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
It goes on and on and on. Ben Powers, thank.
Speaker 5 (25:58):
You for the obvious very active and very busy and
whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Powers, weren't you the veteran defense attorney, because.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I'm hearing an echo. You're just saying what I just said.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
What's your defense in this case of Simpson cleaning out
his vehicle around the time his wife goes missing.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
I think at most you can just say it's odd
because they still don't have a body. They don't have
anything to say how he took her life, when he
took her life, where he took her life, where he
just remembered her, where she is if he did dismember her.
At the moment, all they have is DNA on the
boatsaw that no one can really explain. There's a lot
of speculation that can go.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Okay, okay, point will taken, Ben Powers, point will taken.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Zacharychill are right? Tell me about his movements that day.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
I want to talk about the tarp, the bleach that
stops at the grocery at twelve thirty in the morning,
then going to a dump site, then.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Driving all around.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
The area making stops, and all those bags of trash
then disappear every time he makes a stop. In a
surveillance video, something's been moved out of the bed of
his trunk. So why is it that day suddenly it's
in and out, in and out with the truck bed
just tons of trash bags a tart for Pete's sake.
Speaker 8 (27:15):
I can't tell you why he did it. All I
can do is tell you what he's accused of doing,
and that is, like you mentioned, starting the morning with
some suspicious activity, including driving out to Bernie after dropping
off his daughter with only a nice chest in his trunk,
and the art starting in the bed of his truck
(27:35):
before he's then seen in Bernie with you know, large
trash fins and then stops at home depot, where he's
then seen that water burger with the large object covered
by a tarp, and then he asks for directions to
the nearest dump there and Bernie, and he's shortly seen
(27:55):
on surveillance camera footage after visiting the dep with the
two tryack's gone, but he still has the large item
covered with the tart. He then proceeds to drive to Bandera,
which officers reportedly know from license plate readers and other
surveillance footage that they see of his truck driving out there.
He then stops in Bandera for only less than fifteen
(28:17):
minutes before he's done seen driving back towards Bernie with
the tart and the large item under the tar being gone.
He's unseen on surveillance footage picking up his daughter and
all of those suspicious items from the back of his
truck are gone.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Jeff Horny, longtime friend of both Susanne and Brad Simpson.
I got to figure out how smart and or dumb
is your friend, Brad Simpson, because.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
It's like the same old playbook.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Come on, this is the same exact thing Fotus Dulos did.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Okay, there's a copious amount.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Of blood found in the garage outside of Jennifer's car
after she came back from drop off that morning at school.
She's never been found, but he Traconas and his girlfriend,
that's certainly one way to put it. Michelle Traconas are
caught on video driving all around town going to I
believe it was five different trash receptacles caught on video
(29:26):
throwing away sponges, rags, towels all soaked in blood. The wife,
Jennifer Dulos shirt and bras soaked in blood.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
So how smart is.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Simpson because he's just doing the same old playbook for
Pete's sake.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
I don't think he's very smart. I'm you know, after
I heard that they found the found her DNA on
the reciprocating saw.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
He's crazy.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
I mean, I don't know what he could have to
get all that done in the few hours that he
got done. I'd like to know what he was on
to do that, you know?
Speaker 5 (30:10):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Has Brian Fitzgibbons, Brian, do you ever wish that suspect,
of course he's presumed innocent, would do something different? I mean,
don't you know that if the authorities have already gotten
him on video at the water Burger and the grocery
store and the here and the there. They're going to
have video of him disposing of stuff, although he may
(30:37):
have disposed of it in a remote area where we're
never going to find it.
Speaker 10 (30:40):
Yeah, Nancy, at this point that I certainly wish all
the time that you know, a defendant would come forward
with the truth. Right, But at this point we're probably
dealing with multiple disposal sites, potentially bodies of water, potentially
different dump sites, and uh, you know this, this is
going to be very complicated. But so far as a wish,
(31:02):
of course, I feel that all the time, I wish
you'd come forward and give us the truth.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
A major update in the search for Suzanne Simpson, the
missing Texas mom luxury realtor Listen It's.
Speaker 6 (31:14):
Part Police Department, along with the Texas Rangers, have charged
Brad Chandler Simpson with murder in the death of his wife,
Suzanne Clark Simpson.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
The Rangers have not.
Speaker 12 (31:24):
Stopped investigating this case, as it has been turned over
to the District Attorney's apartment. The District Attorney starts their
process in the prosecution phase. Even though we are not
stopping our search for Suzanne Clark Simpson.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
That from our friends at k e NS five and
you were hearing the almost part chief of police for
Dale Valet House and Sergeant Dion Cockrell from the Texas
Department of Public Safety. So now there is a formal
charge the district attorney now starting the prosecution phase. Will
more be made clear? Maybe not. We don't have a
(31:58):
right to know all of the details surrounding this case.
Straight out to doctor Kendall Crown's chief medical examiner in
Terran County, that's Fort Worth, Texas, doctor Kendall Crowns.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I'm thinking back on photos.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Dulos and how he and his lover, Michelle Chaconis were
hiding Jennifer, the mother of his five children. I mean
hiding throwing away into dumpsters, into trash receptacles all over town.
What man throws the same bag of trash in five
different trash cans?
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Okay, food for thought.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
But if we find, if we discover that Susanne has
been dismembered, that could mean anything from a leg to
a digit. So how do you go about if any
part of her is found connecting that back to Susanne Simpson.
Speaker 7 (32:55):
So well, what you would have to do is whatever
you receive, you get tissue, bone, marrow, whatever you can
pull off of it, and then submit that for DNA.
If it happened to be a finger, you could actually
get fingerprints from it if it's still intact enough, and
you could do it that way. But in this type
of case, with the parts being found over time, that
(33:17):
each part that is found is going to have to
have DNA testing done on it to make sure it's
from her. But once you do find a part, especially
if it's like a large portion, like a thigh or
something like that, you know she's been murdered. You know
she's been cut up.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Joining me is renowned psychologist Karen Start joining us from Manhattan. Karen,
the loss of your mother is overwhelming, I've been told,
But then the additional shock that she'sn't been murdered, then
the additional shock that she has been dismembered. Now, if
(33:55):
the children don't accept that, they are left with the
specter of my mom's not dead, she just abandoned me.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
So what are your thoughts?
Speaker 9 (34:07):
Well, no matter which way this turns out, Nancy, these
children don't have a mother anymore. So there is so
much they've been exposed to. They're going to need a
tremendous amount.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Of help in my hand.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
The newly released charging documents straight out to my Saint
Antonio Zachary tail all right, Zachary, tell me in a
nutshell about these allegations, and they are only that allegations.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
He has not been proven guilty. What do you know?
Speaker 8 (34:33):
So I know he's been charged with the murder of
Suzanne Simpson, and I also know he's been charged with
two bounts of tempering with evidence. One is linked to
the gun that he had his friend had and the
reciprocating saw that they alleged that he attempted to conceal
from investigators. Then he was also charged with tempering with
evidence with the intent to conceal his wife's body, although
(34:58):
very little information has been present on that charge. And
then those are the charges he's facing, but they're all
being questioned by his defense attorney.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
In the last hours.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Brad Simpson in court before Judge Joel Petz with the
attorneys identified themselves.
Speaker 8 (35:16):
He's a stand up appreciation. See you can get more
from mister Simpsons.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Okay, and so are you, Brad Chandler Simpson.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
That from our friends aka b Zachary Taylor. What happened
in court.
Speaker 8 (35:26):
There is quite a bit that's set to happen in
the coming months. He Brad Simpson is said to be
before the judge again on December nineteenth. Now that's a
motion to amend conditions. But very little has been filed
with the court to tell us or offer any kind
of insight into what his defense attorney might be looking
to do, although in the past he has sought to
(35:49):
reduce the bond amount and change the bond conditions to
allow him to see his children. And then he'll be
back before the judge on February twelve.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Well, you're right again. You don't know a horse. Look
at his track record.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Now Brad Simpson is demanding that the charges be thrown out.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Listen, there's emotion to quash the inditement, which I think
we will dedigate as a leader date.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
That's for our friends at kabb to ben powers in
a nutshell, Ben a nutshell. The state doesn't give a
killer a gold star or an A plus plus because
they get rid of the body.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
That's not happening.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
The state doesn't have to lay out in the indictment
how the victim was killed.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
If they can prove it, sure, put it in.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
There, for instance, by manual strangulation, by shooting with the weapon,
by stabbing, But it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
The state doesn't have to prove how she was killed.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
They just have to convince a jury that she has
been killed and that he did it in this jurisdiction.
Speaker 5 (36:49):
Well, I disagree with that. They have to lay out
what their theory of the killing is. You know, there's
a big difference between a voluntary manslaughter, which is a
accidental killing, and a first degree murder, which is premeditated killing.
It sounds like his defense attorneys are saying, you're saying
he killed her, but you're not telling us how when
where any of the important details that go to your
(37:10):
theory of premeditation, And so that's what they're attacking with
their most recent silence is the lack of proof that
goes towards premeditation, like the state is trying to make
it out to be.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
So, Ben Powers, let me understand in your mind, the
state has to lay out the exact mode of murder.
So you've never encountered a case where there was no
body to be found and the mode of murder was unknown.
Are you telling me, You've never seen a no body
(37:40):
case indictment.
Speaker 5 (37:41):
What I'm saying is this most recent motion sounds like
what I would call a deal. In particular, it's basically
the defense throwing down the gauntlet and saying, okay, state,
you say my client premeditated killed this person.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
I know what they filed, Ben, I know what the
defense filed. We just had reporters say that. But then
you said the dight must show mode i've murder.
Speaker 5 (38:02):
When I say mode, I mean in this case, they're
saying it's premeditated, and then must include a factual allegation
that supports premeditation being charged.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
For all of you would be wife killers out there,
an indictment does not have to show how you killed
your partner, Okay, you getting rid of the body is
not going to help you. And in Diamond only has
to allege that you committed premeditated murder the jurisdiction in
(38:33):
the name of the victim.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
The rest can be proven at trial. The state is
still building its case.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
If you know or think you know anything.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
About the disappearance of Texas's mom, Suzanne Simpson, or the
movements of her husband, Brad Simpson, who is presumed innocent.
Please dial two one zero two zero nine to seven
zero one two one zero two zero nine two seven
zero one. Let's remember now an American hero David Ennsbrenner Atchison,
(39:11):
p D. Kansas, shot and killed in the line of duty.
Served twenty four years in law enforcement. Survived by wife
now widow, Carrie, and children without a father, Avery, Abby
and Celia. American hero Sergeant David Ennsbrenner. Nancy Gray signing
off goodbye friend.
Host
Nancy Grace
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