August 21, 2024 • 39 mins
Teenagers have been arrested in connection with the death of a mother of eight, who was gunned down after a confrontation with suspected drug dealers.
Blanca Velasco noticed a blue Toyota sedan parked outside her home for an extended period. Feeling suspicious, her daughter Maria Ramos accompanied Velasco down the driveway to investigate the unfamiliar car. In the street, the men in the car claimed they had come to deliver an “order” to Velasco’s 16-year-old grandson and flashed a marijuana vape pen. The two women argued with the men, prompting the blue Toyota to speed away.
Determined to keep the dealers from returning, the mother and grandmother got into their own car and followed the Toyota for two blocks. Suddenly, the Toyota screeched to a stop, and Blanca Velasco stopped just behind it. Maria got out to approach the car, and before retreating across the street, she pepper-sprayed the occupants.
A man in the backseat, armed with a gun, got out and chased Maria down the street before opening fire. Blanca pulled closer to the Toyota in an attempt to shield her daughter, who was trying to take cover from the gunfire. As Blanca turned back toward the Toyota, the shooter re-entered the vehicle and aimed the loaded gun at her. Panicked, Blanca sped away with the blue Toyota in pursuit.
Blanca eventually lost the Toyota in traffic and returned to search for Maria but couldn’t find her. Then, she spotted her daughter lying on the sidewalk in a pool of blood.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Phillip Dubé - Court-Appointed Counsel, Los Angeles County Public Defenders: Criminal & Constitutional Law, Forensics & Mental Health Advocacy
- Dr. Jorey Krawczyn – Police Psychologist, Adjunct Faculty with Saint Leo University; Research Consultant with Blue Wall Institute, Author: Operation S.O.S. – Practical Recommendations to Help “Stop Officer Suicide”
- Tom Smith – Former NYPD Detective, Co-Host of the “GOLD SHIELDS” Podcast; FB & Instagram: @thegoldshieldshow
- Dr. Jan Gorniak – Medical Examiner, Clark County Office of the Coroner/Medical Examiner (Las Vegas, NV), Board Certified Forensic Pathologist
- Rachel Swan - Staff Writer, San Francisco Chronicle; X: @RachelSwan
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a mom of eight. Let
that Saint Ken a mom of eight shot dead, executed
on the street because why she confronts dopers trying to
(00:24):
sell weed to her children. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Just before school starts again, Maria Ramos, thirty three, brings
her eight children on a visit to their grandmothers in Oakland, California.
Blanco Velasco's home is full of bubbly energy while she
hosts both Maria and her other daughter's families. The children
are excited for back to school shopping with their cousins.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
We've all lived through that, the excitement of back to school,
getting ready, getting new outfits, getting the notebooks, the pens,
the everything. That's what was happening. How can that seemingly
idyllic moment go so wrong? And then, in an eerie premonition,
(01:09):
this mom of eight is talking about her plans to
move her family, her children along with her mom, for
a better life, to a better area where they can
have a yard and a garden in the back listen.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
In recent years, Maria Ramos has become extremely close with
mom Blanco of Alaska. Maria often talks of moving to
a larger home in the central valley with a big
yard for the children and a vegetable garden. Maria is
determined to provide a better life for her eight children.
Maria and Blanco put a timeline on their dream, planning
to move from her set together next year.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
The mommy couldn't make it happen fast enough. You know,
many of us juggle working in children. She has eight
children to take care of. Her big plan was to
move those eight children do a home a neighborhood where
she could have a front yard and a garden in
(02:06):
the back. But she couldn't get there fast enough. This
is where it starts. Listen.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Around two pm, Blanc of Alasko notices a blue Toyota
Sedan parked outside her home for an extended period of time.
Suspicious mom of eight Maria Ramos walks down the driveway
along with her mom to investigate the unknown car there
in the street. The men in the car state they've
come to sell Velasco's sixteen year old grandson an order
(02:35):
and flash a marijuana eight pen. The two women argue
with the men, and the blue Toyota speeds.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Away with me an all star panel to make sense
of what we're learning right now. But first to Rachel Swan,
joining us investigative reporter writer with the San Francisco Chronicle. Rachel,
thank you so much for being with us. Tell me
the first part of this story. Tell me about the
mom realizing spotting that blue Toyota and going down to
(03:04):
confront it, and then following it with the grandma.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. So, so, basically, this.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
What this was.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
You know, three people.
Speaker 6 (03:19):
Who were apparently involved in a business together where they
did deliveries of i'll say, illegal substances to people's homes.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Okay, hold on, Rachel, as you know on crime stories,
everybody including me, is on the hot seat. Did you
just say, yeah, that the guys in the car were
in a business together.
Speaker 6 (03:39):
Well, you know, not that much is known right now,
but we know that they were making a delivery for
you know, a web drug delivery service where you know,
they had a website.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
Advertised I assume, you know, illegal.
Speaker 6 (03:59):
Substances that they would deliver to your home, you know, sort.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Of like, well, let me get my hand around this. Yeah,
Rachel Swan, it's everything You're saying is correct. I just
have a heart. I a hard time digesting it because
you know, to Philip Dubay, high profile defense attorney in
the California jurisdiction, what is like delivering a pizza or
(04:24):
Chinese You go to a website, you type it in
and you get drugs and that's okay.
Speaker 7 (04:29):
Well, first of all, I think they're mischaracterizing that it
wasn't drugs. It was vape pens. Okay, that's what the
paraphernalia is, that kids vape of what marijuana or tobacco whatever.
But you got to understand it.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
So you're okay with miners having marijuana? No, I mean,
if you're snoop, fine, go for it. But Philip Dubay, look, okay,
so mom of eight, those are eight children, most of
them are miners. What is it legally your just for
miners to have marijuana, it's an infraction. Basically, it's like
(05:06):
a moving violation infraction. So for a miner to have pot,
it's an infraction. I'm not talking about you. You can
have a big do be right now for all I care,
But for a miner it'll be a cold day in
h double al that some ahole pulls up and tries
to deliver pot to my child. That's not happening. So
(05:29):
you're telling me that's absolutely okay to give an eleven
or twelve year old marijuana. No, not at all.
Speaker 7 (05:36):
But I think there's a little more to the story here.
I think when mom rushed that car, she brought like
a little canister of pepper spray and she makes the
kids in the car. So if that's the case, that
under California law is an assault with the weapon. And
here you have mid traffics and car pulling up, Mom
spritzing everybody in the car. They feel like they're being attacked.
(05:56):
If I were defending these kids, it would be a
self defense, defensive others type situation. Not to say that
Mom had it coming, and not to victim sheme.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Here, because that is what you're making it sound like.
So Mom is trying to scare away dopers from her children.
They take off, she follows them to tell them to
stay out of her neighborhood. She goes up to the car,
sees a gun, then sprays a little pepper spray. I
(06:25):
would do if I saw a gun in the car. Yes,
if I had the pepper spray with me. Yes, but
you're making it sound like it's self defense on the
doper's part.
Speaker 7 (06:37):
Well, first of all, you're assuming that that's how it
played out. You know, it was widely reported.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
That you're assuming it's not.
Speaker 7 (06:44):
No, my mom went up there and sprits them all
because she was angry rather than finger wag and yell
at them for being in the neighborhood and selling these devices.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Oh sorry, did you just land on planet Earth? Did
you crawl out of an egg? Wait, you had a
moll I'm right, a human mother. Correct. Yes, she never
went don't do that. That's wrong. She never did that
to you, not once.
Speaker 7 (07:10):
Not with pepper spray at her hand.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
No, she used You made her. You made her sound
like the devil from hell. She finger wagged.
Speaker 7 (07:19):
Mother.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
You know what I can't hear you right now? Tomas Smith?
Can you help me? Help me? Tom Smith joining me,
former NYPD detective, co host of the gold Shield Podcast,
and what that is is true live crime with the detectives,
the investigators, the cops, the forensics that actually work on
(07:44):
that case. Past or present gold Shield Podcast. Tom no
offense to Philip Dubay. He is a high profile defense
attorney with the Public Defender's office. Nothing wrong with that,
and La and he seems to think that mommy is
(08:04):
the devil. She meels above because she with her mother,
the grandma, chases down the dopers and fusses at them
and wags her finger. According to him, so she sees
a gun in the car, sprays pepper spray and runs off.
And what do they do chase her down and shoot
(08:26):
her dead. I mean, you and I both know, Tom Smith.
I know you didn't get your law degree, but you
know all about self defense. And when someone is running
away from you and you pursue them and shoot them,
you do not have a claim of self defense. What
were you afraid of? Pointer her index finger? Really?
Speaker 8 (08:48):
Oh, absolutely right, it doesn't equal. And she went up
there defending her kids and trying to make a better
life for her kids. And these criminals, and that's exactly
what they are. They had a gun in the car,
protecting their business. And what did they do in the
criminals today? What they do They shoot first and they
worry about everything else later. That's exactly what happened. If
you see the timing of the video. She got up
(09:10):
there and immediately he jumped down and started shooting.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
All right, that's what happened, guys. A mother of eight,
a mom of eight is visiting grandma, and it's brutally
executed after she confronts drug dealers who had targeted her
children with weed. Yes, that's what happened. Now, she has
(09:35):
a little fingersized canister that fits on your key chain
of pepper spray. He has a gun, and that's bringing
a knife to a gunfight. That's I slap you and
you shoot me with an oozy? What more do we know? Listen?
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Blanca and Maria hop in Velasko's car, determined to intervene
and keep the dealers from ever returning. The lady follow
behind the Toyota for two blocks, when suddenly the Toyota
screeches to a stop. Blanca stops short behind them, and
her daughter Maria gets out to approach the car. It's
then that mama of eight, Maria quickly turns and runs
across the street away from the Toyota.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Joining me right now. Esteemed psychologist doctor Jory Crossing, faculty
Saint Leo University, consultant at the Blue Wall Institute, an
author of operations, doctor jury. If I may call you
that you know I hear Philip Dubay, and he's doing
what he's trying to do. That's why he wins so
(10:36):
many cases because somehow, in about three sentences, he twists
this thing around to make it mommy's fault. Help me
out here.
Speaker 9 (10:46):
I think we've got to have a different perspective of this,
and that deals with the individual shooters. You know, we
can look at personalities, but when you have two people
or more acting in concert, this socialization or think takes over.
That's the best way that I can describe it. And
we're seeing more and more of this across the country.
(11:08):
Police officers involved in shootings and and all kinds of
different violent altercations. We're rising to a new level of violence.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Rachel Swan joining me, investigative reporter, staff writer San Francisco Chronicle. Rachel,
how was this caught on video?
Speaker 6 (11:27):
Well, my understanding is that this was captured on a
neighbor's camera, because you know, everybody has these.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
Door cameras now this camp, so.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
You know, the police are able to get warrants for
all this video now and collect it from neighbors. You know,
the investigation is in necessarily stages, but I would imagine
they have multiple videos, at least one, as we can
see very clear.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
One crime stores with Nancy Gray.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
A purp in the back seat gets out, armed with
a gun and chases mom Maria down the street before
opening fire. Blanca pulls closer to the Toyota, trying to
shield her daughter, who is now trying to take cover
from the gun to fire. When Blanca turns back towards
the Toyota, the shooter gets back inside and runs the
loaded gun on Grandma Blanca. In a blind panic, Blanca
speeds away with the blue Toyota hot on her tail,
(12:26):
so the.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Grandma is terrorized as well. She sees the gun and
takes off, thinking her daughter Maria has run away, and
she circles back to find the worst listen.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Blanca eventually loses the teens in traffic and feels it's
safe to go back for Maria. Back on Hilton, Blanca
can't seem to find Maria and assumes her daughter is
still hiding. Then she spots Maria lying on the sidewalk
in a pool of blood. Blanca rushes to help Maria,
telling her to breathe and hang on for her children
as she calls nine to one one.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Imagine that going back to get your daughter, who has
eight children of her own, ter raise thinking that she's hiding.
And if you look at that video carefully, you see
the perps actually start firing at the vehicle, the great
SUV with Grandma and Mom in the car. Watch this,
Watch it. Mom gets out, she sees what she's she
(13:22):
sprays the pepper spray. They're chasing there, you go the
gun and it's not over yet. Then he fires at Grandma,
chases down, Mom, shoots her, then fires on Grandma. Grandma
circles back to get her daughter, only to find her
dead in a pool of blood. Begging her to hang
(13:45):
on for her eight children, she calls nine to one
one joining me now over now medical examiner with the
formerly Clark County Office of the Coroner. That's Vegas. Never
a lack of business there, doctor Gorniak, thank you for
being with us. Explain to me, how was it that
(14:06):
mom of eight, Maria could bleed out so quickly there
on the sidewalk.
Speaker 10 (14:12):
Well, it looks like from the video that she was
shot even before she got to the sidewalk, just based
on her gait as she's kind of running but more limping,
so I believe that she got shot even before she
got to the sidewalk, so she could have been shot
in the chest, so that's not going to be an
(14:33):
immediate death, and she can bleed out there. I know
she was shot multiple times, so if she shot, say
in her head, that could be the blood in her
chest some of the obviously some of the blood will
be coming out of her body, but most of it
will be stayed inside. And unfortunately, you know, she bled
out on the sidewalk. Terrible for her her mom to
(14:57):
find her. But I want to go back up out
the delivery of drugs. We still had a lot of
drug overdoses during COVID when the world shut down, and
I think that's where the quote unquote business of delivery
came into play, because people were getting their drugs delivered
to them because obviously they weren't going out and getting
(15:19):
them off the street. So I believe the delivery of
drugs the business of what do you call it?
Speaker 5 (15:27):
What's the door dash?
Speaker 10 (15:30):
Right? So dope dash started during COVID because we still
had plenty of people dying of overdoses, so that probably
this business sprung from that time.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
We are hearing unconfirmed reports that mom of a Maria
was shot in the back. If that's true, Doctor Jan Gorniac,
a medical examiner, explained to me how she would have
died so quickly When her mother, the grandma circled back,
she was already in the last throws of death. She
(16:04):
was gone. The mom begging her to stay alive, you know,
calling nine one one, They couldn't get there fast enough.
So how would a shot to the back cause her
to bleed out so quickly? Did her lungs fill it
with blood? How does that work?
Speaker 10 (16:19):
Well, depending on where the shots were, there are multiple
It could have gotten a lung. But most people don't
realize too that the main artery in your body, the
A order, is toward to the back. So depending on
the direction that the bullet went, it could have clipped
her along and her order it could have went, depending
which side is going left to right, right to left,
(16:41):
that it got the heart and that would be a
cause for her to die so quickly.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
So, doctor Gorniac, she would have been shot either in
the back or a side shot to the torso possibly
a shot to the arm that goes then into the chest. Correct,
you're absolutely correct.
Speaker 10 (16:58):
There could being we call it a through and so
in and out of the arm and then into the chest.
So and it looks like she's shot on that that
right side as she's facing the car, and then as
she's running away you'll see and she might have been
shot right there too, but just to see her gate,
it's like she wasn't running as normal as you would
(17:20):
think someone was. And plus I see that parked car
over there, so she was. She was Unfortunately in an
open you know, open target for for this person to
to shoot.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
The mother of a gunned down in the street, and
to make matters worse, we find out mommy is shot
multiple times. Listen.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Oakland PD arrives within minutes, finding Blanca still clutching Maria,
who is suffering from multiple gunshot wounds to her back
and struggling to breathe. Cops fight to keep Maria conscious,
but by the time paramedics arrive, Maria is gone. Blanc
A police they just wanted to keep the teens from returning,
and manages to tell them the car's license plate.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Number, so she is in fact shot multiple times. A
mother of eight, just trying to keep dope dealers out
of the neighborhood and away from her own children. You know,
I've heard many, many stories, doctor Jory Crausen, of moms
seemingly getting superhumanus strength and you know, confronting attackers, risking
(18:30):
their own lives to save their children. And that is
exactly what mom of eight Maria did here. She tried
to take on dopers.
Speaker 9 (18:37):
I've got to give her credit for the courage she showed,
you know, confronting them. Even if it was just going
to be in her mind, a verbal altercation, she still,
you know, jumped right into that fire like a mama lion,
protecting her coats.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Oakland PD canvas is the neighborhood and locates surveillance footage
that captured the entire shooting clean Clow. Those officers track
the blue Toyota sedan to a home on Hilton Street.
The shocking discovery that the thugs and the blue Toyota
selling dope or teens, including nineteen year old Isaiah Gomez,
who is detained and questioned. Hours later, the two sixteen
(19:14):
year old passengers in Gomez's car are also arrested. Cops
then recover a gun that matches the showcasings found at
the scene.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Well, they may call it the shocking discovery that the
perps are teens. The shocking discovery for me is that
there is a mother of eight, shot multiple times on
the street who bleeds out and dies with the grandma,
her mother cradling her, begging her to live. And why
(19:43):
because the mom of eight, Maria dares to take on
dope dealers who turn out to be teens. Okay, question
to you, Philip Dubay, high profile defense attorney. Maybe I'm
missing something here, But does the fact that their teens
somehow change the fact that Maria, a mother of eight,
(20:05):
is dead on the street. Oh no, not at all.
Speaker 7 (20:08):
I mean, these kids are just as culpable. So the
only question is where are they going to go? Are
they going to go into the juvenile justice system or
will they be marched upstairs into adult court?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
And these kids could not have pared. They're calling them kids,
you're calling them ers. Isn't one are about to turn
twenty years old? Hold on, Rachel Swan joining us from
the San Francisco Chronicle. Isn't Isaiah Gomez the driver? Isn't
he about to turn twenty?
Speaker 5 (20:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (20:37):
Well he's nineteen, so he is technically an adult, you know,
under the law.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
But all teenagers.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Okay, hold on just a moment. Rachel is Gomez the driver.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
He is the driver. He is a driver, and.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Rachel Swan, let me understand something. What is he charged with?
What's the charge on the driver Isaiah Gomez?
Speaker 6 (21:04):
And I should say, actually, he is allegedly the driver.
He hasn't been convicted of anything.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
He is charged.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Okay, hold on, Rachel, We're not in a court of law.
Look around, You're in a studio. You see the video. Okay,
we know he is driving, but okay, the alleged driver,
(21:31):
you win, you win the alleged driver. Of course, he's
the driver. But I'll pretend I'm in front of a
judge of the alleged driver. What is the charge against
the alleged driver, Isaiah Gomaz.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
Felony accessory after the fact. So that's not murder. That
is accessory that is allegedly helping, you know, conceal the shooter,
basically helping him flee from the crime.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Rachel, do you just want to say allegedly one more
time and just get it out of your system.
Speaker 6 (22:12):
I'm always going to say allegedly, you know, okay, pulling
your util someone's convicted.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
I would eligibly.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
But yeah, seriously on this topic, let me understand something.
Tom Smith joining me. You know, I know what Dubay
is going to say because he's like programmed. Uh, and
I'll deal with him in just a moment. But Tom
Smith joined me, joining me, former NYPD detective, co hosts
gold Shields podcast. Tom, why is this bastackwards? Because if
(22:41):
you and I, this is a tired one. But I'll
use it because it makes sense. Go into a bank
and I say, okay, we're not going to shoot anybody, right,
and you go absolutely not. I just want the money.
We go in, you take out an oozy. It'spraay the place. Ah,
what did we just not say we're not shooting anybody?
Guess what? I'm charged with murder? So why is the
(23:03):
adult in the car in his as Gorniac said, door
dash drugs? Why is he not charged with murder felony?
Murder felony, The underlying felony is the aggravated assault. I
don't care if he didn't pull the shaker. That is
(23:24):
not the black and white letter of the law. Just
like I'm gonna get charged with murder because you shot
the bank teller.
Speaker 8 (23:33):
Yeah, I'd be charging wall with murder. And here's why.
Here's my part. He had an opportunity to drive away
to watch that video. He closed the door before the
victim's car got there. He could have very easily just
driven away and gotten out of that area. He chose
to stay so his guys that are in the backseat
of that car could take care of business.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
He waits for the driver to get back, he waits
for the shooter to get back in the car, and
then takes off and they hide out. And here is
an another thing, Tom Smith, you know what, let me
try this one out on Philip Dubay Defense attorney Dobay.
As we all know, under the law, there is explicit
(24:12):
intent where I say, Philip d Bay, I'm gonna shoot
you dead, and bang, I do it. That's explicit, I
state it. Then there is implicit intent where I don't
say anything, I snink up behind you and shoot me
in the back of the head and you die. My
actions implicitly prove I meant to kill you. In this case,
(24:33):
you have the only adult in the car, Isaia Gomez,
delivering dope in a residential neighborhood two children. The mom
chases after him with Grandma is the driver and she's
the wingman. They chase down the dopers. He's got a
(24:54):
guy in the back seat with a gun and he
unlet's the shooter get out, pull off a couple of
round sheet mommy, and then take off. He's part of it.
Why is he not charged with felony murder underlying felony
ag assault.
Speaker 7 (25:13):
It's like a law school exam. But what happened was
back in January of twenty nineteen, California change the felony
murder doctrine where eight ers and a betters cannot be
held accountable for the underlying homicide unless they were the
actual shooter, intended to kill, or they acted in reckless
(25:34):
disregard for human life. So it's going to be a
tough call for a jury to say that he was
in on the murder. Now, he obviously was there to
deliver vape pen.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Why is he driving this guy around with a gun, Well,
that's a different question.
Speaker 7 (25:51):
Doesn't mean that he was in on a killing of
this particular victim. You had to understand this was a
very unplanned, sort of spontaneous act. Car pulls up mid traffic,
gets out with pepper spray, then boom, the gun goes off.
It's not as if this whole thing was rehearsed and
pre planned. Nobody knew she was going to come up
on them like that, and if he did not know.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
That, the guy the gun dobey making the argument that
the mother of a is the bad guy in this Samaria,
let me ask you a question, Philip, do Bay do
you have a gun on you right now?
Speaker 8 (26:23):
No?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Oh? Why? Because you don't plan on shooting anybody today,
right or at least not in the studio.
Speaker 10 (26:30):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I don't have a gun either, because I'm not planning
to gun down well, not now anyway, Jackie sitting over there.
When you show up with a gun to make drug deliveries,
I think the intent is clear. If anybody messes with you,
they're going to get shot. And this guy the only
adult in the car. He is the one, pardon the comparison,
(26:55):
he's driving this car. He's literally driving the car. And
without him this wouldn't happen because the others don't have
a car to drive. He is the one running the show.
He's more than an eight or and a better. This
is his plan.
Speaker 7 (27:12):
Got under California law. Under California law, he's only liable
for the underlying felony, which is constructive possession of a
gun you know that, or accessory after the fact, which
by the way, only carries three years here as a felony.
I mean, in theory, you can plead him out, let
him go do his three years at halftime, and he's done.
(27:33):
He can move on with his life. The actual shooter
is the one who's in big trouble. Unless they can
show that that driver was in on it, had the
intent to kill, or acted in reckless disregard with actual
indifference to human life, he is not liable for the
murder itself under our abrogated felony murder doctrine.
Speaker 11 (27:53):
Out Here units responded. They found the young woman suffering
from one they provided hey. She unfortunately passed away, and
within minutes our patrol team and our special resources team
sprung into action, identifying the vehicle, locating in the vehicle,
and then quickly taking three suspects in a custody within
(28:16):
the next twelve hours.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I don't know how difficult it really was to find them.
Because grandma had a license tag and she gave it
to police that was trapped back immediately to a location
on Hilton Street not far away, and there it was
the blue Toyota Sedan eate four door. It's reminiscent of
how cars very often help you find your killer. Of course,
(28:43):
there's those times, so you've got the car and you
still don't find the killer, you have to be hit
over the head with the car. In Long Island's serial
killer case, Rex Huerman who's responsible for at least five
women's death and emphasis on at least and would just
bury them along Gilgo Beach so he could pass by
(29:03):
them every morning on the way to work. He had
his Chevy Avalanche, no longer in production, into production I
think in twenty thirteen. His Chevy Avalanche was spotted by
multiple witnesses and it was part outside his house the
whole time. But it wasn't put together. Two and two
(29:28):
necessarily did not equal four in that case, so he
could continue killing women. In this case, Oakland PD follow
up on the tag, they find the blue Toyota four door,
and they immediately get the adult. In this scenario, but
listen to this, all that hard police work is for naught.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
One of the sixteen year olds is released and not
charged in the killing, while the other is charged with murder.
That team remains behind bars at the Alameda County Juvenile Hall.
It is not yet been decided if he'll be charged
as an adult. The driver, Isaiah Gomez, says he's not
guilty to accessory after the fact and is released on bond,
ordered to wear an ankle monitor.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm going to go out
to Rachel Swan. Rachel, is this correct? One of the
teams is released and not charged, the adult is released
with nothing but an ankle monitor, and the third one
(30:42):
is looking at being charged as in juvenile so he'll
probably get out if he does time at all in
two years. Did the adult in this scenario actually walk
out with nothing but an ankle monitor?
Speaker 6 (30:56):
Well, I mean there are actually some other conditions, but
you know, I think he I believe he also has
to do. I believe he also has to do some programs.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
You know, So there are some programs like what don't
she mothers of eight dead on the sidewalk? What kind
of program does he have to do? Because normally programs
are enforced as sentencing.
Speaker 6 (31:19):
If memory serves me, there's a jobs program, But I
mean there's a there's usually like in editions.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
But so he takes part and gunning down a mother
of eight, and we're going to help him find a job.
We're putting him in a job's program. That's his punishment.
Speaker 6 (31:37):
I mean, I I do if if memory serves me.
When I looked at the court documents, there are a
couple other conditions in addition to the main. One was
that he has to wear a GPS monitor, which we
sometimes call an ankle bracelet.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
So he's out of jail now.
Speaker 6 (31:55):
He has pled not guilty, as he said, he has
to appear back in court and he will face a trial.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
And he has to wake up every morning and make
his bed and brush his teeth. Okay, what is wrong
with this scenario, doctor Jori?
Speaker 9 (32:14):
Yeah, well, I mean you have to look at you know,
the the governance of the population. Society has changed, not
for the better. I mean, you know, you look at
this violence, and by design, you can look at this
group working as a business. The driver, the adult, the
(32:36):
younger ones are going to carry the weapons and do
the enforcement because just what you're seeing, they're not charged
as adults. Here in Florida. I can remember a time
when we had seven twelve year olds booked for first
degree murder. They were actually hired in gangs to kill rivals. Okay,
(32:59):
So I mean that's a social cultural shift, a major one.
Uh when you look at the average.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Holder, this is the moment, doctor Jerey crawsing, You're absolutely correct.
But I'm going to get to Tom Smith very quickly,
jumping off what you just said. Tom Smith, former NYPD.
Tom is the oldest story in the book. I remember
the first case felony case I ever had. I got
sent over to juvenile to find a witness. I'm like, uh,
(33:29):
what I want a seven year old witness? But okay,
I went over there. It wasn't the witness, it was
the defendant was a little boy. And this is how
it works. Adults use children and teens because they'll get
The most they can get is five years. That's the
(33:50):
most they can get. In juvenile. They'll probably do one
to two years in a dormitory setting. So if that
and that's highly unlikely. So adults, like the adult here
gets children or teens to hold the dope and the guns.
(34:10):
Why because they'll go to The adult will go to
jail four twenty to life. The team will be out
in a matter of months and get right back out
on the street. As Crosin was saying, this is one
of the oldest stories, the oldest plans and the playbook
for drug lords and dope dealers. Use teens, use children
(34:32):
while you supervise them, so you don't go to jail.
Speaker 8 (34:35):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
And here's the other thing.
Speaker 8 (34:36):
The criminals today know the criminal justice system and policies
and laws better than anyone. They know what they can
get away with, They know who they can use to
get away with certain crimes. And this is a perfect
example of that. They know the laws in California are lenient,
and what's going to happen to them, Absolutely nothing. They
get an ankle monitor and a court date later on
(34:58):
down the line.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Caught on the the horrific moment a mother of eight,
just thirty three years old is brutally executed. Why she
confronted the dope dealers trying to sell her children weed listen.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Blanca Velasko is speaking with several media outlets to keep
Maria's name in the news. Velasco hopes the media attention
will help get justice for her daughter's murder. Velasco is
now taking care of Maria's eight children and is struggling
to explain what happened to their mother.
Speaker 12 (35:32):
She told KPIX, the fifteen, the thirteen, and the eleven,
they know that mom is gone. The other five I
haven't had the courage to tell them.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
That's for our forensic KPIs and more.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Blanco Velasko is speaking out about her daughter's murder, hoping
for change in Oakland. Maria Ramos's shooting is receiving increased
media attention, as the mom of eight was shot in
broad daylight while she was just trying to protect her children.
Velasco detailed has last comments for NBC Bay Area.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
I started rubbing her and told her, breathing with me.
Now you know we still need you. You haven't kids
that still need you. That from our friends at NBC
Bay Area. I was just thinking about her original statement.
The fifteen to thirteen and the eleven year old, they
know Mommy's gone. The other five I haven't had the
(36:25):
courage to tell them yet. The other five children don't
even know their mom is dead. It's not the first
time that a mother has been attacked right in front
of her children.
Speaker 13 (36:42):
Listen, you've got a mom and her three boys going
to an afternoon dental appointment. You've got traffic on the road,
and missus Bigelow is trying to move to her right
to get out of the way for an emergency vehicle
that's trying to pass. She apparently cuts off Jeremy Webster,
(37:03):
a twenty three year old man. He then follows her,
terrorizing the family as they go down the road.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
So just following mom and her three little boys wasn't enough, listen.
Speaker 14 (37:17):
Jeremy Webster follows Megan Bigelow into the parking lot and
blocks in her car. Webster and Bigelow exchange heated words
outside their cars. Webster then retrieves a gun and shoots
Megan in the back at head. As Meghan's sons try
to check on their mother, Webster shoots Vaughan thirteen, and
Asa eight. Webster shoots another bystander before taking off and
(37:39):
heading to his work shift. Vaughn dies in the parking lot. Meghan, Asa,
and the bystanders survive their injuries with extensive medical care.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
What is wrong with these people shooting at mom's and
even children, this time in the parking lot of the
dentist office and more.
Speaker 14 (37:58):
Joanna Kloonan is taking her son Aiden to kindergarten driving
down a busy freeway when Marcus Aures cuts her off.
Kloonan flips Eric the bird and moves away from him,
but Eres follows her. Klouonan hears a loud noise. Then
Aiden six complains that his stomach hurts. Aiden is shot
by Marcus Aurez, finally identified through tips based off the
(38:20):
description of his Volkswagon golf sport wagon. Eres is charged
with murder, and girlfriend wyn Lee, who was riding with Ares,
is charged as an accessory, opening fire on mommy.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
And then ending up killing a six year old child.
To Rachel Swan joining us with the San Francisco Chronicle,
what's next? Are we waiting to find out if the
juvenile who pulled the trigger is getting his milk and
cookies in JIV Hall?
Speaker 5 (38:50):
You know, we don't really have access to the.
Speaker 6 (38:57):
Sixteen year old Acus shooter's court records because because he
is because he is a juvenile, so none of that's public.
Speaker 5 (39:05):
So honestly, I won't know, No one will know.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
We wait as justice unfolds. Thank you to all of
our guests for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off,
Give my friend
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a mom of eight. Let
that Saint Ken a mom of eight shot dead, executed
on the street because why she confronts dopers trying to
(00:24):
sell weed to her children. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Just before school starts again, Maria Ramos, thirty three, brings
her eight children on a visit to their grandmothers in Oakland, California.
Blanco Velasco's home is full of bubbly energy while she
hosts both Maria and her other daughter's families. The children
are excited for back to school shopping with their cousins.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
We've all lived through that, the excitement of back to school,
getting ready, getting new outfits, getting the notebooks, the pens,
the everything. That's what was happening. How can that seemingly
idyllic moment go so wrong? And then, in an eerie premonition,
(01:09):
this mom of eight is talking about her plans to
move her family, her children along with her mom, for
a better life, to a better area where they can
have a yard and a garden in the back listen.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
In recent years, Maria Ramos has become extremely close with
mom Blanco of Alaska. Maria often talks of moving to
a larger home in the central valley with a big
yard for the children and a vegetable garden. Maria is
determined to provide a better life for her eight children.
Maria and Blanco put a timeline on their dream, planning
to move from her set together next year.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
The mommy couldn't make it happen fast enough. You know,
many of us juggle working in children. She has eight
children to take care of. Her big plan was to
move those eight children do a home a neighborhood where
she could have a front yard and a garden in
(02:06):
the back. But she couldn't get there fast enough. This
is where it starts. Listen.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Around two pm, Blanc of Alasko notices a blue Toyota
Sedan parked outside her home for an extended period of time.
Suspicious mom of eight Maria Ramos walks down the driveway
along with her mom to investigate the unknown car there
in the street. The men in the car state they've
come to sell Velasco's sixteen year old grandson an order
(02:35):
and flash a marijuana eight pen. The two women argue
with the men, and the blue Toyota speeds.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Away with me an all star panel to make sense
of what we're learning right now. But first to Rachel Swan,
joining us investigative reporter writer with the San Francisco Chronicle. Rachel,
thank you so much for being with us. Tell me
the first part of this story. Tell me about the
mom realizing spotting that blue Toyota and going down to
(03:04):
confront it, and then following it with the grandma.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. So, so, basically, this.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
What this was.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
You know, three people.
Speaker 6 (03:19):
Who were apparently involved in a business together where they
did deliveries of i'll say, illegal substances to people's homes.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Okay, hold on, Rachel, as you know on crime stories,
everybody including me, is on the hot seat. Did you
just say, yeah, that the guys in the car were
in a business together.
Speaker 6 (03:39):
Well, you know, not that much is known right now,
but we know that they were making a delivery for
you know, a web drug delivery service where you know,
they had a website.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
Advertised I assume, you know, illegal.
Speaker 6 (03:59):
Substances that they would deliver to your home, you know, sort.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Of like, well, let me get my hand around this. Yeah,
Rachel Swan, it's everything You're saying is correct. I just
have a heart. I a hard time digesting it because
you know, to Philip Dubay, high profile defense attorney in
the California jurisdiction, what is like delivering a pizza or
(04:24):
Chinese You go to a website, you type it in
and you get drugs and that's okay.
Speaker 7 (04:29):
Well, first of all, I think they're mischaracterizing that it
wasn't drugs. It was vape pens. Okay, that's what the
paraphernalia is, that kids vape of what marijuana or tobacco whatever.
But you got to understand it.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
So you're okay with miners having marijuana? No, I mean,
if you're snoop, fine, go for it. But Philip Dubay, look, okay,
so mom of eight, those are eight children, most of
them are miners. What is it legally your just for
miners to have marijuana, it's an infraction. Basically, it's like
(05:06):
a moving violation infraction. So for a miner to have pot,
it's an infraction. I'm not talking about you. You can
have a big do be right now for all I care,
But for a miner it'll be a cold day in
h double al that some ahole pulls up and tries
to deliver pot to my child. That's not happening. So
(05:29):
you're telling me that's absolutely okay to give an eleven
or twelve year old marijuana. No, not at all.
Speaker 7 (05:36):
But I think there's a little more to the story here.
I think when mom rushed that car, she brought like
a little canister of pepper spray and she makes the
kids in the car. So if that's the case, that
under California law is an assault with the weapon. And
here you have mid traffics and car pulling up, Mom
spritzing everybody in the car. They feel like they're being attacked.
(05:56):
If I were defending these kids, it would be a
self defense, defensive others type situation. Not to say that
Mom had it coming, and not to victim sheme.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Here, because that is what you're making it sound like.
So Mom is trying to scare away dopers from her children.
They take off, she follows them to tell them to
stay out of her neighborhood. She goes up to the car,
sees a gun, then sprays a little pepper spray. I
(06:25):
would do if I saw a gun in the car. Yes,
if I had the pepper spray with me. Yes, but
you're making it sound like it's self defense on the
doper's part.
Speaker 7 (06:37):
Well, first of all, you're assuming that that's how it
played out. You know, it was widely reported.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
That you're assuming it's not.
Speaker 7 (06:44):
No, my mom went up there and sprits them all
because she was angry rather than finger wag and yell
at them for being in the neighborhood and selling these devices.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Oh sorry, did you just land on planet Earth? Did
you crawl out of an egg? Wait, you had a
moll I'm right, a human mother. Correct. Yes, she never
went don't do that. That's wrong. She never did that
to you, not once.
Speaker 7 (07:10):
Not with pepper spray at her hand.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
No, she used You made her. You made her sound
like the devil from hell. She finger wagged.
Speaker 7 (07:19):
Mother.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
You know what I can't hear you right now? Tomas Smith?
Can you help me? Help me? Tom Smith joining me,
former NYPD detective, co host of the gold Shield Podcast,
and what that is is true live crime with the detectives,
the investigators, the cops, the forensics that actually work on
(07:44):
that case. Past or present gold Shield Podcast. Tom no
offense to Philip Dubay. He is a high profile defense
attorney with the Public Defender's office. Nothing wrong with that,
and La and he seems to think that mommy is
(08:04):
the devil. She meels above because she with her mother,
the grandma, chases down the dopers and fusses at them
and wags her finger. According to him, so she sees
a gun in the car, sprays pepper spray and runs off.
And what do they do chase her down and shoot
(08:26):
her dead. I mean, you and I both know, Tom Smith.
I know you didn't get your law degree, but you
know all about self defense. And when someone is running
away from you and you pursue them and shoot them,
you do not have a claim of self defense. What
were you afraid of? Pointer her index finger? Really?
Speaker 8 (08:48):
Oh, absolutely right, it doesn't equal. And she went up
there defending her kids and trying to make a better
life for her kids. And these criminals, and that's exactly
what they are. They had a gun in the car,
protecting their business. And what did they do in the
criminals today? What they do They shoot first and they
worry about everything else later. That's exactly what happened. If
you see the timing of the video. She got up
(09:10):
there and immediately he jumped down and started shooting.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
All right, that's what happened, guys. A mother of eight,
a mom of eight is visiting grandma, and it's brutally
executed after she confronts drug dealers who had targeted her
children with weed. Yes, that's what happened. Now, she has
(09:35):
a little fingersized canister that fits on your key chain
of pepper spray. He has a gun, and that's bringing
a knife to a gunfight. That's I slap you and
you shoot me with an oozy? What more do we know? Listen?
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Blanca and Maria hop in Velasko's car, determined to intervene
and keep the dealers from ever returning. The lady follow
behind the Toyota for two blocks, when suddenly the Toyota
screeches to a stop. Blanca stops short behind them, and
her daughter Maria gets out to approach the car. It's
then that mama of eight, Maria quickly turns and runs
across the street away from the Toyota.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Joining me right now. Esteemed psychologist doctor Jory Crossing, faculty
Saint Leo University, consultant at the Blue Wall Institute, an
author of operations, doctor jury. If I may call you
that you know I hear Philip Dubay, and he's doing
what he's trying to do. That's why he wins so
(10:36):
many cases because somehow, in about three sentences, he twists
this thing around to make it mommy's fault. Help me
out here.
Speaker 9 (10:46):
I think we've got to have a different perspective of this,
and that deals with the individual shooters. You know, we
can look at personalities, but when you have two people
or more acting in concert, this socialization or think takes over.
That's the best way that I can describe it. And
we're seeing more and more of this across the country.
(11:08):
Police officers involved in shootings and and all kinds of
different violent altercations. We're rising to a new level of violence.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Rachel Swan joining me, investigative reporter, staff writer San Francisco Chronicle. Rachel,
how was this caught on video?
Speaker 6 (11:27):
Well, my understanding is that this was captured on a
neighbor's camera, because you know, everybody has these.
Speaker 5 (11:33):
Door cameras now this camp, so.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
You know, the police are able to get warrants for
all this video now and collect it from neighbors. You know,
the investigation is in necessarily stages, but I would imagine
they have multiple videos, at least one, as we can
see very clear.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
One crime stores with Nancy Gray.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
A purp in the back seat gets out, armed with
a gun and chases mom Maria down the street before
opening fire. Blanca pulls closer to the Toyota, trying to
shield her daughter, who is now trying to take cover
from the gun to fire. When Blanca turns back towards
the Toyota, the shooter gets back inside and runs the
loaded gun on Grandma Blanca. In a blind panic, Blanca
speeds away with the blue Toyota hot on her tail,
(12:26):
so the.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Grandma is terrorized as well. She sees the gun and
takes off, thinking her daughter Maria has run away, and
she circles back to find the worst listen.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Blanca eventually loses the teens in traffic and feels it's
safe to go back for Maria. Back on Hilton, Blanca
can't seem to find Maria and assumes her daughter is
still hiding. Then she spots Maria lying on the sidewalk
in a pool of blood. Blanca rushes to help Maria,
telling her to breathe and hang on for her children
as she calls nine to one one.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Imagine that going back to get your daughter, who has
eight children of her own, ter raise thinking that she's hiding.
And if you look at that video carefully, you see
the perps actually start firing at the vehicle, the great
SUV with Grandma and Mom in the car. Watch this,
Watch it. Mom gets out, she sees what she's she
(13:22):
sprays the pepper spray. They're chasing there, you go the
gun and it's not over yet. Then he fires at Grandma,
chases down, Mom, shoots her, then fires on Grandma. Grandma
circles back to get her daughter, only to find her
dead in a pool of blood. Begging her to hang
(13:45):
on for her eight children, she calls nine to one
one joining me now over now medical examiner with the
formerly Clark County Office of the Coroner. That's Vegas. Never
a lack of business there, doctor Gorniak, thank you for
being with us. Explain to me, how was it that
(14:06):
mom of eight, Maria could bleed out so quickly there
on the sidewalk.
Speaker 10 (14:12):
Well, it looks like from the video that she was
shot even before she got to the sidewalk, just based
on her gait as she's kind of running but more limping,
so I believe that she got shot even before she
got to the sidewalk, so she could have been shot
in the chest, so that's not going to be an
(14:33):
immediate death, and she can bleed out there. I know
she was shot multiple times, so if she shot, say
in her head, that could be the blood in her
chest some of the obviously some of the blood will
be coming out of her body, but most of it
will be stayed inside. And unfortunately, you know, she bled
out on the sidewalk. Terrible for her her mom to
(14:57):
find her. But I want to go back up out
the delivery of drugs. We still had a lot of
drug overdoses during COVID when the world shut down, and
I think that's where the quote unquote business of delivery
came into play, because people were getting their drugs delivered
to them because obviously they weren't going out and getting
(15:19):
them off the street. So I believe the delivery of
drugs the business of what do you call it?
Speaker 5 (15:27):
What's the door dash?
Speaker 10 (15:30):
Right? So dope dash started during COVID because we still
had plenty of people dying of overdoses, so that probably
this business sprung from that time.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
We are hearing unconfirmed reports that mom of a Maria
was shot in the back. If that's true, Doctor Jan Gorniac,
a medical examiner, explained to me how she would have
died so quickly When her mother, the grandma circled back,
she was already in the last throws of death. She
(16:04):
was gone. The mom begging her to stay alive, you know,
calling nine one one, They couldn't get there fast enough.
So how would a shot to the back cause her
to bleed out so quickly? Did her lungs fill it
with blood? How does that work?
Speaker 10 (16:19):
Well, depending on where the shots were, there are multiple
It could have gotten a lung. But most people don't
realize too that the main artery in your body, the
A order, is toward to the back. So depending on
the direction that the bullet went, it could have clipped
her along and her order it could have went, depending
which side is going left to right, right to left,
(16:41):
that it got the heart and that would be a
cause for her to die so quickly.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
So, doctor Gorniac, she would have been shot either in
the back or a side shot to the torso possibly
a shot to the arm that goes then into the chest. Correct,
you're absolutely correct.
Speaker 10 (16:58):
There could being we call it a through and so
in and out of the arm and then into the chest.
So and it looks like she's shot on that that
right side as she's facing the car, and then as
she's running away you'll see and she might have been
shot right there too, but just to see her gate,
it's like she wasn't running as normal as you would
(17:20):
think someone was. And plus I see that parked car
over there, so she was. She was Unfortunately in an
open you know, open target for for this person to
to shoot.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
The mother of a gunned down in the street, and
to make matters worse, we find out mommy is shot
multiple times. Listen.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Oakland PD arrives within minutes, finding Blanca still clutching Maria,
who is suffering from multiple gunshot wounds to her back
and struggling to breathe. Cops fight to keep Maria conscious,
but by the time paramedics arrive, Maria is gone. Blanc
A police they just wanted to keep the teens from returning,
and manages to tell them the car's license plate.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Number, so she is in fact shot multiple times. A
mother of eight, just trying to keep dope dealers out
of the neighborhood and away from her own children. You know,
I've heard many, many stories, doctor Jory Crausen, of moms
seemingly getting superhumanus strength and you know, confronting attackers, risking
(18:30):
their own lives to save their children. And that is
exactly what mom of eight Maria did here. She tried
to take on dopers.
Speaker 9 (18:37):
I've got to give her credit for the courage she showed,
you know, confronting them. Even if it was just going
to be in her mind, a verbal altercation, she still,
you know, jumped right into that fire like a mama lion,
protecting her coats.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Oakland PD canvas is the neighborhood and locates surveillance footage
that captured the entire shooting clean Clow. Those officers track
the blue Toyota sedan to a home on Hilton Street.
The shocking discovery that the thugs and the blue Toyota
selling dope or teens, including nineteen year old Isaiah Gomez,
who is detained and questioned. Hours later, the two sixteen
(19:14):
year old passengers in Gomez's car are also arrested. Cops
then recover a gun that matches the showcasings found at
the scene.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Well, they may call it the shocking discovery that the
perps are teens. The shocking discovery for me is that
there is a mother of eight, shot multiple times on
the street who bleeds out and dies with the grandma,
her mother cradling her, begging her to live. And why
(19:43):
because the mom of eight, Maria dares to take on
dope dealers who turn out to be teens. Okay, question
to you, Philip Dubay, high profile defense attorney. Maybe I'm
missing something here, But does the fact that their teens
somehow change the fact that Maria, a mother of eight,
(20:05):
is dead on the street. Oh no, not at all.
Speaker 7 (20:08):
I mean, these kids are just as culpable. So the
only question is where are they going to go? Are
they going to go into the juvenile justice system or
will they be marched upstairs into adult court?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
And these kids could not have pared. They're calling them kids,
you're calling them ers. Isn't one are about to turn
twenty years old? Hold on, Rachel Swan joining us from
the San Francisco Chronicle. Isn't Isaiah Gomez the driver? Isn't
he about to turn twenty?
Speaker 5 (20:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (20:37):
Well he's nineteen, so he is technically an adult, you know,
under the law.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
But all teenagers.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Okay, hold on just a moment. Rachel is Gomez the driver.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
He is the driver. He is a driver, and.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Rachel Swan, let me understand something. What is he charged with?
What's the charge on the driver Isaiah Gomez?
Speaker 6 (21:04):
And I should say, actually, he is allegedly the driver.
He hasn't been convicted of anything.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
He is charged.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Okay, hold on, Rachel, We're not in a court of law.
Look around, You're in a studio. You see the video. Okay,
we know he is driving, but okay, the alleged driver,
(21:31):
you win, you win the alleged driver. Of course, he's
the driver. But I'll pretend I'm in front of a
judge of the alleged driver. What is the charge against
the alleged driver, Isaiah Gomaz.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
Felony accessory after the fact. So that's not murder. That
is accessory that is allegedly helping, you know, conceal the shooter,
basically helping him flee from the crime.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Rachel, do you just want to say allegedly one more
time and just get it out of your system.
Speaker 6 (22:12):
I'm always going to say allegedly, you know, okay, pulling
your util someone's convicted.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
I would eligibly.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
But yeah, seriously on this topic, let me understand something.
Tom Smith joining me. You know, I know what Dubay
is going to say because he's like programmed. Uh, and
I'll deal with him in just a moment. But Tom
Smith joined me, joining me, former NYPD detective, co hosts
gold Shields podcast. Tom, why is this bastackwards? Because if
(22:41):
you and I, this is a tired one. But I'll
use it because it makes sense. Go into a bank
and I say, okay, we're not going to shoot anybody, right,
and you go absolutely not. I just want the money.
We go in, you take out an oozy. It'spraay the place. Ah,
what did we just not say we're not shooting anybody?
Guess what? I'm charged with murder? So why is the
(23:03):
adult in the car in his as Gorniac said, door
dash drugs? Why is he not charged with murder felony?
Murder felony, The underlying felony is the aggravated assault. I
don't care if he didn't pull the shaker. That is
(23:24):
not the black and white letter of the law. Just
like I'm gonna get charged with murder because you shot
the bank teller.
Speaker 8 (23:33):
Yeah, I'd be charging wall with murder. And here's why.
Here's my part. He had an opportunity to drive away
to watch that video. He closed the door before the
victim's car got there. He could have very easily just
driven away and gotten out of that area. He chose
to stay so his guys that are in the backseat
of that car could take care of business.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
He waits for the driver to get back, he waits
for the shooter to get back in the car, and
then takes off and they hide out. And here is
an another thing, Tom Smith, you know what, let me
try this one out on Philip Dubay Defense attorney Dobay.
As we all know, under the law, there is explicit
(24:12):
intent where I say, Philip d Bay, I'm gonna shoot
you dead, and bang, I do it. That's explicit, I
state it. Then there is implicit intent where I don't
say anything, I snink up behind you and shoot me
in the back of the head and you die. My
actions implicitly prove I meant to kill you. In this case,
(24:33):
you have the only adult in the car, Isaia Gomez,
delivering dope in a residential neighborhood two children. The mom
chases after him with Grandma is the driver and she's
the wingman. They chase down the dopers. He's got a
(24:54):
guy in the back seat with a gun and he
unlet's the shooter get out, pull off a couple of
round sheet mommy, and then take off. He's part of it.
Why is he not charged with felony murder underlying felony
ag assault.
Speaker 7 (25:13):
It's like a law school exam. But what happened was
back in January of twenty nineteen, California change the felony
murder doctrine where eight ers and a betters cannot be
held accountable for the underlying homicide unless they were the
actual shooter, intended to kill, or they acted in reckless
(25:34):
disregard for human life. So it's going to be a
tough call for a jury to say that he was
in on the murder. Now, he obviously was there to
deliver vape pen.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Why is he driving this guy around with a gun, Well,
that's a different question.
Speaker 7 (25:51):
Doesn't mean that he was in on a killing of
this particular victim. You had to understand this was a
very unplanned, sort of spontaneous act. Car pulls up mid traffic,
gets out with pepper spray, then boom, the gun goes off.
It's not as if this whole thing was rehearsed and
pre planned. Nobody knew she was going to come up
on them like that, and if he did not know.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
That, the guy the gun dobey making the argument that
the mother of a is the bad guy in this Samaria,
let me ask you a question, Philip, do Bay do
you have a gun on you right now?
Speaker 8 (26:23):
No?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Oh? Why? Because you don't plan on shooting anybody today,
right or at least not in the studio.
Speaker 10 (26:30):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I don't have a gun either, because I'm not planning
to gun down well, not now anyway, Jackie sitting over there.
When you show up with a gun to make drug deliveries,
I think the intent is clear. If anybody messes with you,
they're going to get shot. And this guy the only
adult in the car. He is the one, pardon the comparison,
(26:55):
he's driving this car. He's literally driving the car. And
without him this wouldn't happen because the others don't have
a car to drive. He is the one running the show.
He's more than an eight or and a better. This
is his plan.
Speaker 7 (27:12):
Got under California law. Under California law, he's only liable
for the underlying felony, which is constructive possession of a
gun you know that, or accessory after the fact, which
by the way, only carries three years here as a felony.
I mean, in theory, you can plead him out, let
him go do his three years at halftime, and he's done.
(27:33):
He can move on with his life. The actual shooter
is the one who's in big trouble. Unless they can
show that that driver was in on it, had the
intent to kill, or acted in reckless disregard with actual
indifference to human life, he is not liable for the
murder itself under our abrogated felony murder doctrine.
Speaker 11 (27:53):
Out Here units responded. They found the young woman suffering
from one they provided hey. She unfortunately passed away, and
within minutes our patrol team and our special resources team
sprung into action, identifying the vehicle, locating in the vehicle,
and then quickly taking three suspects in a custody within
(28:16):
the next twelve hours.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I don't know how difficult it really was to find them.
Because grandma had a license tag and she gave it
to police that was trapped back immediately to a location
on Hilton Street not far away, and there it was
the blue Toyota Sedan eate four door. It's reminiscent of
how cars very often help you find your killer. Of course,
(28:43):
there's those times, so you've got the car and you
still don't find the killer, you have to be hit
over the head with the car. In Long Island's serial
killer case, Rex Huerman who's responsible for at least five
women's death and emphasis on at least and would just
bury them along Gilgo Beach so he could pass by
(29:03):
them every morning on the way to work. He had
his Chevy Avalanche, no longer in production, into production I
think in twenty thirteen. His Chevy Avalanche was spotted by
multiple witnesses and it was part outside his house the
whole time. But it wasn't put together. Two and two
(29:28):
necessarily did not equal four in that case, so he
could continue killing women. In this case, Oakland PD follow
up on the tag, they find the blue Toyota four door,
and they immediately get the adult. In this scenario, but
listen to this, all that hard police work is for naught.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
One of the sixteen year olds is released and not
charged in the killing, while the other is charged with murder.
That team remains behind bars at the Alameda County Juvenile Hall.
It is not yet been decided if he'll be charged
as an adult. The driver, Isaiah Gomez, says he's not
guilty to accessory after the fact and is released on bond,
ordered to wear an ankle monitor.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm going to go out
to Rachel Swan. Rachel, is this correct? One of the
teams is released and not charged, the adult is released
with nothing but an ankle monitor, and the third one
(30:42):
is looking at being charged as in juvenile so he'll
probably get out if he does time at all in
two years. Did the adult in this scenario actually walk
out with nothing but an ankle monitor?
Speaker 6 (30:56):
Well, I mean there are actually some other conditions, but
you know, I think he I believe he also has
to do. I believe he also has to do some programs.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
You know, So there are some programs like what don't
she mothers of eight dead on the sidewalk? What kind
of program does he have to do? Because normally programs
are enforced as sentencing.
Speaker 6 (31:19):
If memory serves me, there's a jobs program, But I
mean there's a there's usually like in editions.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
But so he takes part and gunning down a mother
of eight, and we're going to help him find a job.
We're putting him in a job's program. That's his punishment.
Speaker 6 (31:37):
I mean, I I do if if memory serves me.
When I looked at the court documents, there are a
couple other conditions in addition to the main. One was
that he has to wear a GPS monitor, which we
sometimes call an ankle bracelet.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
So he's out of jail now.
Speaker 6 (31:55):
He has pled not guilty, as he said, he has
to appear back in court and he will face a trial.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
And he has to wake up every morning and make
his bed and brush his teeth. Okay, what is wrong
with this scenario, doctor Jori?
Speaker 9 (32:14):
Yeah, well, I mean you have to look at you know,
the the governance of the population. Society has changed, not
for the better. I mean, you know, you look at
this violence, and by design, you can look at this
group working as a business. The driver, the adult, the
(32:36):
younger ones are going to carry the weapons and do
the enforcement because just what you're seeing, they're not charged
as adults. Here in Florida. I can remember a time
when we had seven twelve year olds booked for first
degree murder. They were actually hired in gangs to kill rivals. Okay,
(32:59):
So I mean that's a social cultural shift, a major one.
Uh when you look at the average.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Holder, this is the moment, doctor Jerey crawsing, You're absolutely correct.
But I'm going to get to Tom Smith very quickly,
jumping off what you just said. Tom Smith, former NYPD.
Tom is the oldest story in the book. I remember
the first case felony case I ever had. I got
sent over to juvenile to find a witness. I'm like, uh,
(33:29):
what I want a seven year old witness? But okay,
I went over there. It wasn't the witness, it was
the defendant was a little boy. And this is how
it works. Adults use children and teens because they'll get
The most they can get is five years. That's the
(33:50):
most they can get. In juvenile. They'll probably do one
to two years in a dormitory setting. So if that
and that's highly unlikely. So adults, like the adult here
gets children or teens to hold the dope and the guns.
(34:10):
Why because they'll go to The adult will go to
jail four twenty to life. The team will be out
in a matter of months and get right back out
on the street. As Crosin was saying, this is one
of the oldest stories, the oldest plans and the playbook
for drug lords and dope dealers. Use teens, use children
(34:32):
while you supervise them, so you don't go to jail.
Speaker 8 (34:35):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
And here's the other thing.
Speaker 8 (34:36):
The criminals today know the criminal justice system and policies
and laws better than anyone. They know what they can
get away with, They know who they can use to
get away with certain crimes. And this is a perfect
example of that. They know the laws in California are lenient,
and what's going to happen to them, Absolutely nothing. They
get an ankle monitor and a court date later on
(34:58):
down the line.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Caught on the the horrific moment a mother of eight,
just thirty three years old is brutally executed. Why she
confronted the dope dealers trying to sell her children weed listen.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Blanca Velasko is speaking with several media outlets to keep
Maria's name in the news. Velasco hopes the media attention
will help get justice for her daughter's murder. Velasco is
now taking care of Maria's eight children and is struggling
to explain what happened to their mother.
Speaker 12 (35:32):
She told KPIX, the fifteen, the thirteen, and the eleven,
they know that mom is gone. The other five I
haven't had the courage to tell them.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
That's for our forensic KPIs and more.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Blanco Velasko is speaking out about her daughter's murder, hoping
for change in Oakland. Maria Ramos's shooting is receiving increased
media attention, as the mom of eight was shot in
broad daylight while she was just trying to protect her children.
Velasco detailed has last comments for NBC Bay Area.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
I started rubbing her and told her, breathing with me.
Now you know we still need you. You haven't kids
that still need you. That from our friends at NBC
Bay Area. I was just thinking about her original statement.
The fifteen to thirteen and the eleven year old, they
know Mommy's gone. The other five I haven't had the
(36:25):
courage to tell them yet. The other five children don't
even know their mom is dead. It's not the first
time that a mother has been attacked right in front
of her children.
Speaker 13 (36:42):
Listen, you've got a mom and her three boys going
to an afternoon dental appointment. You've got traffic on the road,
and missus Bigelow is trying to move to her right
to get out of the way for an emergency vehicle
that's trying to pass. She apparently cuts off Jeremy Webster,
(37:03):
a twenty three year old man. He then follows her,
terrorizing the family as they go down the road.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
So just following mom and her three little boys wasn't enough, listen.
Speaker 14 (37:17):
Jeremy Webster follows Megan Bigelow into the parking lot and
blocks in her car. Webster and Bigelow exchange heated words
outside their cars. Webster then retrieves a gun and shoots
Megan in the back at head. As Meghan's sons try
to check on their mother, Webster shoots Vaughan thirteen, and
Asa eight. Webster shoots another bystander before taking off and
(37:39):
heading to his work shift. Vaughn dies in the parking lot. Meghan, Asa,
and the bystanders survive their injuries with extensive medical care.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
What is wrong with these people shooting at mom's and
even children, this time in the parking lot of the
dentist office and more.
Speaker 14 (37:58):
Joanna Kloonan is taking her son Aiden to kindergarten driving
down a busy freeway when Marcus Aures cuts her off.
Kloonan flips Eric the bird and moves away from him,
but Eres follows her. Klouonan hears a loud noise. Then
Aiden six complains that his stomach hurts. Aiden is shot
by Marcus Aurez, finally identified through tips based off the
(38:20):
description of his Volkswagon golf sport wagon. Eres is charged
with murder, and girlfriend wyn Lee, who was riding with Ares,
is charged as an accessory, opening fire on mommy.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
And then ending up killing a six year old child.
To Rachel Swan joining us with the San Francisco Chronicle,
what's next? Are we waiting to find out if the
juvenile who pulled the trigger is getting his milk and
cookies in JIV Hall?
Speaker 5 (38:50):
You know, we don't really have access to the.
Speaker 6 (38:57):
Sixteen year old Acus shooter's court records because because he
is because he is a juvenile, so none of that's public.
Speaker 5 (39:05):
So honestly, I won't know, No one will know.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
We wait as justice unfolds. Thank you to all of
our guests for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off,
Give my friend
Host
Nancy Grace
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