November 29, 2024 • 40 mins
When a complication with his injuries lands marine-veteran Jon Elliot in the ICU, his wife Brandi is left to take care of their 7-year-old daughter, Piper, between her restaurant shifts.
After a week in the hospital, Jon is stable enough to move out of critical care. Piper is so excited to finally visit her dad, she spends all day drawing pictures to decorate his hospital room. Piper gives her dad plenty of her famous hugs during the visit, before mom says it’s time to go home.
When mom and daughter return home, Elliott wants some time alone. Elliott tells Piper she’ll be back in a few minutes and sits at the bottom of the stairs leading to their door. Worried about her mom, Piper follows Elliott downstairs and starts talking. Elliott then gets up and crosses the street to a greenway along Drake’s Creek, with Piper following behind her.
7-year-old Piper asks where they’re going several times. Then, Elliott grabs Piper by the wrist and leads her down to the creek. Elliott shoves Piper’s head under the water and tells her to be quiet. When Piper stops struggling, Elliott pulls her from the water, starts CPR, and calls 911. Piper is rushed to the same hospital as her father, but it’s too late. The little girl dies and mom, Brandi Elliott is immediately arrested for murder.
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Ben Powers - Criminal Defense Attorney, Facebook: Legal Powers PLLC, legalpowers.com
- Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, AngelaArnoldMD.com, Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital, Voted My Buckhead’s Best Psychiatric Practice of 2022, 2023 and 2024.
- Julie Gates - Major Law Enforcement Crime Scene Investigator, Forensic Science Program Coordinator/Instructor, Southern Crescent Technical College
- Dr. Kendall Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County, Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at Texas Christian University
- Lauren Conlin - Podcaster/Reporter/Host- The Outlier Podcast & Co-Host of Primetime Crime on YouTube, popcrime.tv, primetimecrimeshow.com, X- @Conlin_Lauren, Instagram- @LaurenEmilyConlin, YouTube: @PopCrimeTV
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, so called monster mom drowns
her daughter to seven years old because she wanted alone time.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm Mascy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
A Nashville mother fed up with motherhood, wanting to be
left alone, now accused of drowning her seven year old daughter.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
When EMTs arrived, this is what happens.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Henderson police get a nine to one one call and
arrive to find mom Brandy Elliot, performing CPR on her
seven year old daughter along a popular trail. The girl
is soaking wet, having been pulled from the water fiber.
Elliot is taking by ambulance to a local hospital. Just
before noon, so all of this.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Happens even before lunchtime.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Joining me an all star panel, but straight out to
Lauren Collin, hosts of Prime Time on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Lauren, thank you for being with us. Lauren. Where did
this happen? Nancy?
Speaker 5 (01:07):
This happened in Hendersonville, Tennessee, at Drake's Creek. It's about
a two minute walk and they walked over there. The
creek is very shallow, so let me understand what I'm hearing.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
This was actually a walk away from the apartment because
when this first became known, many people assumed that the
little seven year old girl actually drowned in the bathtub.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
But no, she actually.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Drowned in a shallow part of a lake. So what
exactly happened that morning?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Listen?
Speaker 4 (01:41):
It's Saturday morning and seven year old Piper joins her
mother sitting on the steps outside their apartment.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
It's just the two of them.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Her father, a disabled Irocky Warvette, is in the hospital.
The two set out for a walk along the green
Way next to Drake Creek. The three point nine mile
trail is considered an easy taking about an hour and
eleven minutes to complete. But instead of heading home, Mom
Brandy Elliot, makes a gutbridge and call two Hendersonville Police.
She tells them she's doing CPR on her daughter who
(02:12):
is drowned in the shallow end of the waterway again.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
And I'll start paneling with us right now to figure
out what happened to this little seven year old girl.
Piper to doctor Kendall Crowns, joining us, renowned chief medical
examiner of Terrance County. That's Dallas Fort Worth. Plenty of
business at the Morgue. There a lecturer at the Esteemed
Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. Doctor Kendall crowns the
(02:39):
shallow part of the water. I take that to be
three feet, and under shallow it could even be less.
It could be less than three feet. So a little
girl age seven, normally grown according to growth charts, how
(03:01):
tall would she be?
Speaker 6 (03:02):
Probably about around four foot a little taller than that.
She'd definitely be higher than a three foot level of water,
so well well above that creek level.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And I'm looking at more surrounding that morning, It's Saturday morning.
Seven year old Piper joins her.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Mom, just the two of them.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
The father, a disabled a rocky war vet, is in
the hospital.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Listen.
Speaker 7 (03:30):
John Elliott was injured during his time with the Marines
and stays home with Piper while Brandy Elliott supports the
family with her job at McDonald's. When a complication of
his injuries lands John in the ICU, Brandy is left
to take care of Piper between shifts. After a week
in the hospital, John is stable enough to move out
of critical care. Piper is so excited to finally visit
(03:52):
her dad, she spends all day drawing pictures to decorate
his hospital room. Piper gives her dad plenty of her
famous hugs during the visit before Mom says it's time
to go home.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So let me understand, Lauren Collin, the dad who has
spent a lot of time raising Piper while mom is
at work. He's disabled. Yes, he's not there to protect her.
It's just her and the mom, right, correct.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
Piper and Brandy spent time together during the period that
John was in the hospital, but normally John is the
stay at home dad.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Okay, how did the whole thing start? Listen?
Speaker 8 (04:30):
Marine veteran John Elliott meets the love of his life,
Brandy and Hindersonville, Tennessee. Within a year, John has proposed
and the couple has a big white wedding at Grace
Baptist Church. Brandy's a wonderful stepmother to John's son, and
soon after the couple welcomes their own child, Piper. By
seven years old. Piper is known for her ability to
put a smile on anyone's face. Piper loves to dance,
(04:51):
fish with her dad, dress up as Disney princesses, and
binge Gordon Ramsey cooking shows.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Taking a look.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
At Piper with her dad, I'm just wondering what type
of feeling of helplessness or isolation he was feeling in
the hospital. He spends every single day with daughter Piper
until he lands back in the hospital with a complication
due to war injuries.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
No more Piper.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
She comes to visit him, giving him all of her
drawings and big hugs, and then the two leave.
Speaker 9 (05:26):
Listen When Brandy Elliott gets home with Piper from the hospital,
Elliott wants some time alone. Elliott tells Piper she'll be
back in a few minutes, leaves the seven year old
inside their apartment and sits at the bottom of the
stairs leading to their door.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Worried about her mom.
Speaker 9 (05:40):
Piper follows Elliott downstairs and starts talking. Elliot gets up
and crosses the street to a greenway along Drake's Creek,
with Piper following behind her.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I can just see that.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Little ducks following the mommy duck. Piper's following along behind mom,
and why shouldn't she joining me? Renounce psychiatrist out of
the LA jurisdiction, Doctor Angela Arnold at angela Arnold MD
dot com. Doctor Angie. So far, this sounds like a
(06:10):
normal mother daughter relationship. Now I guess I'm different. I
never want alone time once I had the twins.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
You know, that's what I want.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
I want our family together as much as we can be.
But I'm thinking about this mom, and she's the breadwinner
in the family. The husband is disabled. I'm sure he's
getting some sort of a disability check, but still that's
never enough for a family. So explain to me the
alone time phenomena. What does that mean?
Speaker 10 (06:42):
You know, Nancy, I have a feeling that from what
you've described, she doesn't send a lot of time with
her daughter. The father takes care of the daughter most
of the time, and perhaps she you know, alone time.
I mean, like you said, who the heck as a
lone time when they have a child raised, particularly when
(07:03):
you said that the woman was going from work to
taking care of the child while he was in the hospital.
So this is not a time when any mother that
has any motherly feelings inside of her should crave alone time.
This is a time when she has to step up
and take care of her child out of necessity. So
(07:25):
I'm not quite sure what was going through her mind
that she thought that this was a time in her
life when she got to be alone when the family
apparently needs more support than that.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
And generally speaking, doctor Angie, I'm not familiar. I've never
felt my desire to have alone time away from the twins.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I just don't feel that.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
So explain what that means, not just to this mother,
Brandy Elliott, but in general alone time. I've got a friend,
super smart started a business a reload, a reload business relocation,
like a big company wants to go from New Jersey
to New Mexico. Okay, she built this company where she
(08:15):
takes on the whole corporation and moves them, finds them, schools,
finds them apartments, finds them, homes, the whole shebang. Okay,
you know what she does for alone time? When she
goes to the grocery store when she's not handling the
business that she created and goes shopping during that thirty
minutes or so, walking the grocery aisles. That's her alone time. Okay,
(08:39):
So what is the mental need for alone time?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I don't have it.
Speaker 11 (08:43):
Explain it to Timmy, Well, Nancy, there are people who
are more introverted than extroverted, and they actually need time
all to themselves to recharge.
Speaker 10 (08:56):
In other words, being around a lot of people wear
some out. Perhaps this woman says that she needed a
lone time because she had been because her routine was
different and she was having to go and see the
husband at the hospital, and she needed to be actually
alone to recharge her own batteries. And like I said,
(09:17):
people that are more introverted than extroverted do require that
kind of time.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I'm asking you for a medical opinion, because here's another example.
I have another friend, Okay, when she gets home, when
she gets home from work, she sits in her car
with the doors shut and locked in the garage which
is all closed, for like twenty thirty minutes before she
(09:44):
comes in. All Right, I don't know what that is.
Doesn't she get hot? Doesn't she worried about carbon monoxide poisoning?
That said, that's what I'm seeing. See I just jump
out and run in and boots on the ground.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Right, everybody's not like that.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
And I'm asking you not for some vernacular you've heard,
let's see at your bridge club, but recharging.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
What does it mean to take a mental break.
Speaker 10 (10:15):
There are people that, if they are that are introverts,
and there are people who are extroverts. People who are
extroverts gain their energy from being around a lot of people.
They actually get energized from that. Okay, so Nancy, we
would describe you as an extrovert. You need that, you
don't get tired from being around people. Then there are people.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
I don't need it, doctor Angie. I'm perfectly happy alone.
I lived alone for years and years in New York.
I never even thought about a husband, and children didn't
even cross my mind. Now that I've got them, it's wonderful.
I don't need that. Let me think of some other
way to pose this question. What about decompression. Does that
ring a bell? When your mind has to decompress from
(11:01):
one situation, one stressful situation, to another situation, what does
the brain do during that decompression period.
Speaker 10 (11:09):
She needs the alone time because she can't take the
stimuli in anymore. Nancy. She said, too much stimuli coming
inside of her, whether it be from going to work
than to watching the child, to going to the hospital.
It was too much for this woman. So she needs
she literally needs no stimuli in order for her brain
(11:31):
to rest. And as you said, decompress, she needs a
lack of stimulus. That's why she had to walk outside
and sit on the porch. Unfortunately, that's why she walked
down to the lake, and her little girl didn't understand this,
so she followed her down there. But she needed no
stimuli so that her brain could rest.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Is that some sort of a condition, Doctor Angie Arnold,
It could be.
Speaker 10 (11:56):
It's a condition that we definitely see in people that
are what we can call on the autism spectrum. They
cannot take in too much stimuli, they have to rest.
They mirrors autism. You asked me, are there conditions in
which this exists?
Speaker 5 (12:13):
Yes?
Speaker 10 (12:13):
There are. One of those conditions is the autism spectrum. Okay,
I didn't say she has autism, but that is a
condition in which this exists.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Ben Power is joining me, guys renown criminal defense attorney.
You can find him at legalpowers dot com. Ben serious question.
Could burnout be a defense? Of course it's not. I'll
just give you the answer right now.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Burnout. I'm burned out, so I killed my child?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yeah, that's not going to work. But could some derivative
of that burnout? I mean, the woman works at McDonald's
all day long.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Have you seen the way some customers act to McDonald's.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
We're always seeing videos of them jumping over the counter
if you don't give them their condiment climbing through the utes,
forcing themselves like ejecting themselves out of the through the car,
from the car through the drive through, I mean stress, right,
because you're dealing with the public, does that and then
(13:26):
comes home. But typically the husband is there taking care
of Piper. Right, So during this period while he is
in the hospital Iraqi Warvett, she's working and taking care
of Piper.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Burnout.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Ain't gonna cut it, okay, for lack of a better phrase,
But could it be spun out? You know, like rumpelstilts
could just spin.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Out that straw and get gold. Is there a way
to spin that out to a defense?
Speaker 12 (13:57):
So you're gonna have to anchor that to mental health
condition to show that she essentially just snapped, because to
be able to establish an inanity.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
When I'm sorry, you made me choke on my tee.
Did Ben Powers, who's won a lot of cases in court,
did he actually just say snapped? That's a show on
Oxygen snapped. Okay, that's not a real defense. I don't
care what Oxygen tells you.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
I snapped.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I snap about fifty times a day. But it is
not a defense to murder ben, So you didn't snap.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
On me, because I know that's not a defense.
Speaker 12 (14:36):
Well, so snap to a pronounced degree to where you disassociate,
you become delusional, you don't appreciate what's going on in
that moment. Not snapped as in a frustration about the day,
but snap truly you have an out of body experience,
almost to where you don't fully appreciate what you're doing
as you're doing it. Because that's the nature of an
(14:57):
insanity defense, is that there's a serious meta condition or
mental health condition or mental health defect, and because of
that mental health defect, you don't appreciate the seriousness of
your current actions in that moment. So if the strain
of her day somehow exacerbated a mental health condition to
where she snapped in the sense of disassociated from the
(15:19):
situation while she was doing what she did, then that
could be the grounds for an insanity defense.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
In this situation, that's a lot of woulda could have,
should have, a lot of ifs, but Maybe's listen.
Speaker 9 (15:33):
When Brandy Elliott gets home with Piper from the hospital,
Elliott wants some time alone. Elliott tells Piper she'll be
back in a few minutes, leaves the seven year old
inside their apartment and sits at the bottom of the
stairs leading to their door. Worried about her mom, Piper
follows Elliott downstairs and starts talking. Elliott gets up and
crosses the street to a greenway along Brake's Creek, with
(15:53):
Piper following behind her.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
The mother allegedly tells police she was having a bad
day and Piper would not give her what she wanted,
time alone.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Time alone.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Now Piper's dead, and according to reports, her mother, Brandy Elliot,
compared her daughter to a let me make sure I've
got this right, a large mouthed bass in the water.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Listen.
Speaker 8 (16:22):
Seven year old Piper continues following behind her mom on
the trail and asks where they're going several times. Then
Elliott grabs Piper by the wrist and leads her down
to the creek. Elliott holds Piper's head under the water
and tells her to be quiet. When Piper finally stops struggling,
Elliott pulls her from the water and starts CPR and
calls nine to one one. Piper is rushed to try
(16:44):
Star Centennial Medical Center, but it's too late. The little
girl dies and mom, Brandy Elliott, is immediately arrested for murder.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Okay, these comments didn't help at all, Lauren Collins joining me,
investigative reporter and star a primetime crime on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Lauren.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Apparently, the mom stated her daughter was like a large
mouth bass under the water and that she held her mother,
Brandy Elliot, the so called monster mom holds her daughter
under the water Piper until she quote felt her bubbling.
(17:23):
I'm getting this from court documents. What can you tell me,
Lauren Colin, Yes.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
In addition to that, Nancy, it absolutely discussed me. I mean,
I have an eight year old daughter. I can't even imagine.
But the reports actually say that Brandy tried to shush
her daughter as she was holding her down.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
She actually was like shush, shush, shush.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
She wanted to get her to stop making noise, stop struggling,
and so I believe once she realized Piper was gone.
I'm obviously not a doctor, but she snapped out of it.
She realized what she did, and then she called nine
to one one.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Hold on just a moment, you, Lauren colinenpowers keep bringing
up the verb snap, using it as some sort of defense.
You claimed, you stated, Lauren Colin, and I just want
to be very clear about this that when she after
she snapped and she came out of it, came out
of what she told her daughter, I want alone time,
(18:19):
go away, leave me alone.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
She comes then from the hospital.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
She's driving perfectly fine, she's talking to the daughter, they're communicating,
she decides to go for a walk. Everything's fine until
she quote gets fed up.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Her words, not my words.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
That is not snapping, and then you come out of it.
I'm fed up right now because none of this is
a defense for drowning your daughter, your seven year old daughter,
and comparing her to a large mouth bass.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I agree.
Speaker 5 (18:58):
I just think that when something is so horrific like
this that we don't know what else to think except
for something came over this woman, something happened inside her brain.
Speaker 12 (19:09):
That didn't happen before.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
It's just so.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Horrific, Colin, something came over this woman. If that were
a defense, everybody in Riker's right now would be walking
free because something.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Came over them.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
That's what you know a lawyer.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I remember a rapist told me he broke into a home.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
And the woman came out and went, oh who are you?
Speaker 1 (19:36):
And quote my little nature got up. Oh god, and
he raped her. Something just came over him. Yes, an erection,
that's what happened. And now she's dead. Okay, something came
over me. That's not a defense. Even Ben Powers, veteran
trial lawyer, cannot spin something came over that woman into
(20:00):
defense empowers.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Please tell me you cannot.
Speaker 12 (20:02):
Well, so the dovetail off what Lauren was saying. She's
the type of jury that I would want a trial
because she's able to understand that this is so unhuman,
so counter to being a child's mother, that there must
be something wrong, because there's no other logical explanation other
than there's a disassociation. There's some kind of disconnect by
(20:23):
the mother in that moment, because it's so horrific to
think that.
Speaker 10 (20:28):
Capable of this.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Your heasin So okay, you see a woman I guess
been powers charged with murder and you immediately play the
mom card with the jury. I know where you're coming from.
Did you hear that, Lauren Colin? I hope you're proud
because he wants you, the defense attorney wants.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
You on the jury. You know what.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Let me go to Julie Gates joining us Major Law enforcement,
crime scene investigator, forensic science program coordinator instructor at Southern
Crescent College.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Julie Gates, thank you for being with us. Could you
explain the evidence in this case?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Am I the only Am I the only one that
believes that snapped and something came over her? Is not
a defense? I mean, think about it, Julie Gates. How
long it takes, which I'm going to have to get
from doctor Kendall Crown's how long it typically takes for
someone to die of drowning.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
That's how long.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
You know, Julie, You've heard this argue to many a jury.
Intent can be formed and the twinkling of the moment,
the blink of an eye, the time it takes you
hold a gun and pull the trigger that fast. It
does not require some long drawn out plans, such as
poisoning someone over a period of weeks or months.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
It can be formed.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Just like that, she held a child under the water
until she was quote Bubbling told her to quote her words,
be quiet, and that the child looked like a large
mouth bas under the water.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
That's plenty of time to form intent, and she clearly
knew she was doing. Help me, Julie, I agree with
you totally.
Speaker 13 (22:13):
I knew think she knew what she was doing the
whole time. And if i'm the doctor, can correct me
on this. But I think it takes anywhere from three
to five minutes to drown, so you at least have
three to five minutes she's holding her under that water.
I am not a parent myself, but I know you
just don't have time. I have a needy dog. I
(22:33):
know it's not a comparison to a child, but this
dog requires attention from the time I get up in
the morning to the time I get go to bed
at night. So I mean the same with kids. And
like I said, I'm not a mom, but my mom
had three children and I'm an identical twin, so I
know she had it.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I know you have to be a mom to understand stress.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
And your job with major law enforcement crime scene investigator,
you have a lot of stress because if you screw up,
the wrong person could go to jail, or nobody goes
to jail, the right person doesn't go to jail, So
that's a lot of stress. It doesn't matter what the
stress is. Stress equals stress. It's a common denominator with
(23:21):
all of us. But do you ever want to just
strangle your dog and kill him.
Speaker 13 (23:25):
Nope, I sure don't.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I love her to death.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Before you get too deep into the fear feelings about
your dog, I want you to hear how this mother,
if she can be called that changes her story.
Speaker 9 (23:36):
Speaking with Hendersonville Police after her arrest, Brandy Elliott says
she was having a rough day and Piper would not
give her what she wanted, time alone. Elliott says she
held Piper under the water quote like a large mouthed bass,
until there were bubbles. Elliott claims she then realized what
she had done, started CPR and called for help.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Doctor Angela Arnold, did you hear her state that I
held her underwater like a large mouth bass until she
was bubbling, in other words, the bubbles coming out of
her daughter's mouth, and then they quit because she had
a quote rough day and because she was quote fed up.
Speaker 10 (24:17):
So, Nancy, if I may have a minute to explain
something to the viewers. There are five reasons that have
been identified by someone named doctor phil Resnik, who's a
famous psychiatrist. There are five motives or reasons for someone
to kill their child, and that's called philicide. One of
(24:37):
the reasons is what two of the guests have been describing,
and that is acute psychosis. There can be there and
that is what they are describing as snapped. Okay, if
the mother has been under a tremendous amount of stress,
if she also has a history of a mental illness,
she can have an acute psychosis that over because of
(25:01):
that stress she can be having Typically they're having command
hallucinations that tell her to hurt the child. That is
one of the five reasons for philicide. The other ones
aren't really The other ones aren't appropriate here and unwanted child,
fatal maltreatment, altruism. In other words, you think the child
(25:23):
will be better off dead than alive, and spousal revenge.
That's the rarest reason for philocide in this case. As
two guests have described the snap, she could have become
acutely psychotic. And as we've said on many other shows before,
people can come in and out of psychosis. So she
(25:45):
described we know that she was stressed this day, something
stressed her out. We also know that she has a
history of a mental illness, So could she have acutely
become psychotic because the little girl would not leave her
alone and she drowned.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
She was asked in court, as was her lawyer, do
you want a mental competency or insanity test?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
The lawyer and she the mom said no.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
She has no history of depression other than seven years before.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
When she had postpartum.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
There was no hallucination, which is one of your reasons
that you cite for killing your child. She had no
mental illness. She had never complained of mental illness. She
has been observed by the court. No mental illness.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
There was no.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Altruistic reason, which is one of the reasons you mentioned,
and there was no spousal revenge. To go forward in
advance to theory that you are stating acute psychosis, a jury
would have to believe that she went into psychosis immediately
when her daughter wanted attention, and then was out of
(26:57):
that psychosis twenty minutes later, when AMT's arrived Crime Stories
with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Henderson police get a nine to one one call and
arrive to find mom Brandy Elliott, performing CPR on her
seven year old daughter along a popular trail. The girl
is soaking wet, having been pulled from the water piper.
Elliot is taking by ambulance to a local hospital.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Just before noon, Brandy Elliott reportedly tells her daughter Piper
to be quiet as she holds her underwater quote like
a large mouthed bass.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
And what about the dad lying in the hospital? The
Iraqi war.
Speaker 8 (27:46):
Vet listen Marine veteran John Elliott meets the love of
his life, Brandy in Hindersonville, Tennessee. Within a year, John
has proposed and the couple has a big white wedding
at Grace Baptist Church. Brandy's a wonderful stepmother to johns
and soon after the couple welcomes their own child, Piper.
By seven years old, Piper is known for her ability
to put a smile on anyone's face. Piper loves to dance,
(28:09):
fish with her dad, dress up as Disney princesses, and
binge Gordon Ramsey cooking shows. John Elliott was injured during
his time with the Marines and stays home with Piper,
while Brandy Elliott supports the family with her job at McDonald's.
When a complication of his injuries lands John in the ICU,
Brandy is left to take care of Piper between shifts.
(28:29):
After a week in the hospital, John is stable enough
to move out of critical care Piper is so excited
to finally visit her dad, she spends all day drawing
pictures to decorate his hospital room.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Take a listen to what he has to say. This
is from our friends at WTVF.
Speaker 7 (28:44):
They came into my room and told me that she'd
drown Her Mom's going to jail.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
I'm proud of the little girl I raised. I'm just
sad she's gone.
Speaker 9 (28:58):
I'm sirking with Hendersonville police after her arrest, Brandy Elliott
says she was having a rough day and Piper would
not give her what she wanted. Time alone. Elliott says
she held Piper under the water quote like a large
mouthed bass, until they were bubbles. Elliott claims she then
realized what she had done, started CPR and called for.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Help, joining me in All Star panel.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
But back to doctor Kendall, Crown's chief medical Examiner Arrant County.
Doctor crowns, I, not just anecdotally, but statistically, have learned
that very often when mothers kill their children, it is
through drowning.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Have you observed that, Yes.
Speaker 6 (29:38):
They have. Over the course of my career, I've seen
several instances where mothers have drowned their children. Also drug
them and stabbed them as well. But drowning is a
fairly common.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
One, you know, doctor kindall Crowns. I've noticed that, and
this is allso statistical. I can follow this up with
Julie Gates, doctor kindall Crowns. I've noticed that when women
commit murder, very often it's a quote soft kill. In
other words, there's not stabbing. I mean sometimes there is,
but typically there's not. There's not stabbing, there's not shooting.
(30:12):
There's a lot of poisoning, a lot of drowning, a
lot of suffocation, but not like clubbing the victim dead,
such as Ted Bundy did in the Coyomega House.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Have you noticed that as well. I learned this before.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
I observed it when I was reading method and Assessment
of homicide and suicide. There is absolutely a statistical correlation
between drowning and mothers that kill. I don't understand it.
I'm not a shrink, but I know it to be true.
And you're saying you have witnessed that as well.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
It's correct.
Speaker 6 (30:49):
Usually males have a higher level of brutality when they
kill an individual and females don't, so, especially with the
individuals where they of their own child. We don't see
the extreme examples of violence, although occasionally with individuals with
mental illness there will be a high level of mutilation
(31:10):
and things of that nature, but typically it's a drowning
or poisoning.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
How long would it take for a child to drown for.
Speaker 6 (31:19):
Anyone, So in this situation with the mom pushing her underwater,
child's struggling. So because she's struggling, she's going to use
up oxygen quicker, so she may begin her mind will
actually become starved of oxygen and will force her to breathe.
That could happen after about thirty seconds to at the
(31:39):
far outside three minutes. Once your mind forces you to breathe,
you inhale all that water in and then you vomit
the water back out. You inhale it again, and you
pass out in about thirty seconds, and then after the
five minute mark you're pretty much brain dead. So you're
looking at a total process from start to finish about
anywhere from three to five five minutes.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Doctor Tundel crowns. What would the drowning victim experience during
the drowning.
Speaker 6 (32:06):
Well, they would be conscious, they would be afraid because
they're forced underwater, they'd be trying to hold their breath
while struggling to get back above the surface to get
to air, and then finally their brain is going to
force them to breathe in and at that point you're
going to inhale all that oxygen and gag and begin
vomiting it back out and then go into unconsciousness. So
(32:28):
it'd be a lot of fear for about that three
to five minute brain.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Three to five minute And what happens to the human
brain when they're deprived of oxygen.
Speaker 6 (32:38):
It basically, when the brain's deprived of oxygen, the brain
will want oxygen so will force you to breathe of course,
and as it can't get oxygen, it will make you
go unconscious.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Piper's father, John Elliott, a disabled Iraq war veteran, says
I will miss my baby girl forever.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Not in the first time a child has been murdered
by mom. Of course, she's innocent under our jurisprudence until
proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Will a jury by
a defense that mommy snapped after she says she was
quote fed up and had a quote bad day and
held her daughter under the water like a quote large
(33:26):
mouth bass that will be up to a jury. And then,
and only then, if they return a guilty verdict, will
she be in fact a killer? It's a technical legal
term of art. Will a jury by it? I don't know,
but I do know. This is not the first time
a child has been drowned at the hands of their
(33:47):
own mom. For instance, let's take Esperanza Harding.
Speaker 14 (33:53):
Esperanza Harding is trying to enjoy a bath when her
eighth month old son, Matteo starts crying inconsolably from his
play in Harding's hotel room. Tired of his incessant screams,
Harting drowns Mateo in her drawn bath, then sends a
picture of the baby floating face down to her boyfriend.
The boyfriend comes to the hotel room and helps Herding
(34:13):
shove Mateo's body in a backpack, then suggests she throw
the bag in a dumpster like she's just taking out
the trash.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Wow, did you hear that?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Doctor Angie es Bron's a Hearting drowned her child because
he quote ruined her bath.
Speaker 10 (34:28):
Again, Nancy, it can these. First of all, it's different
when it happens to an eight month old baby versus
a seven year old child. The conditions can be different.
This woman could have been suffering from some sort of
post part of depression. The baby's under a year old.
She could have also become acutely psychotic. She may have
(34:49):
not wanted the child. We don't know, right, but these
are things that mothers do to their child when they're
not well and when they are very stressed. Apparently she
was taking a bath to rest. The baby bothered her,
we may say pushed her over the edge, but what
(35:10):
we do know is she was very stressed.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Then there is Karina Mustafa. Listen.
Speaker 14 (35:16):
Karina Mustafa comes out to the front porch where her
husband is playing with their toddler, and immediately starts yelling, Dad,
let the baby play in a plant he knocked over
and the toddler is covered in potting soil. Mustafa scoops
up the child and runs to the bathroom, locking the
door behind her. When Mustafa's husband manages to open the door,
he finds his wife holding their child under the water.
(35:37):
Dad performs CPR and the child is stabilized at the hospital.
Karina Mustafa charged with aggravated child abuse.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Well, Doc Dorangie, the baby did it again.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
This time the baby knocked over a potted plant and
got money, so the mom.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Just try to kill it. I guess that's postpartum depression.
Speaker 10 (35:57):
Nancy. I know that you and I have all and
disagreed on this, okay, and I think that we always will.
And yes, I think that there are evil people in
the world, and I do believe that it is often
driven by some form of mental illness. Sees these acts
that these women perform.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
And then there's the mother of all child killers who
kills both of her little boys because she wanted sex.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Listen, my love.
Speaker 9 (36:29):
And he's a lady who come on at door, and
he's some guy that jump into a red light with
her car with her two.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Kids in it.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
It ain't took off and he got out of call
here at Ohio and he's got.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
A Mayo let her call and I don't see Ruth
and I.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Need to go along, you know, down here and a car.
Speaker 13 (36:47):
But we need to add we kind of acting up.
Speaker 12 (36:52):
A magnal protege.
Speaker 15 (36:53):
What color was it?
Speaker 1 (36:55):
A burgundy magnal protege.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
We don't get him, going pay him.
Speaker 15 (36:59):
They got two Susan Smith has been arrested and we'll
be charged with two counts of murder in connection with
the death of her children, Michael three and Alexander fourteen months.
It was a vehicle, a nineteen ninety Masda driven by Smith,
was located late Thursday afternoon in Lake John de Long,
(37:24):
near Union.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
To Lauren Colin, investigative reporter Lauren Colin, that's how a
lot of women get away with murder, because it's very
hard to imagine. When I think of my mom, I
think about nothing but love and sacrifice. What she did
to get us three through and put us through college,
and put us through grad school, and to this day,
(37:46):
sacrificing herself for us. When you see a woman sitting
at the defense council table, you know that the child
is dead, you can't help but think of your own
mother in your mind. That's how tap mom walked, according
to me. But Lauren Conlin, is there any evidence in
(38:07):
this case other than postpartum depression that this woman, Brandy
Elliott had after her child was born of mental illness.
Speaker 5 (38:19):
Nancy August nineteen. Brandy Elliott appeared too bad against the
wall of her jail cell allegedly and then dive head
first from the top bunk to the concrete cell floor. Again,
I'm not a doctor, but is that mental illness? It
appears that she wanted to harm herself, so we could
(38:39):
consider that perhaps.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Okay, I appreciate your civilian diagnosis of a woman who
wants to get out of general population and a woman
who has no history at all a mental illness. Now
behind bars and kit, could I point out also, Lauren Colin,
while you're talking about that, let's talk about her reaction
(39:03):
when she found out she could get the death penalty.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Take a listen.
Speaker 7 (39:07):
At a bond hearing, Brandy Elliott sobs when she is
informed that she could possibly face the death penalty. Elliott
tells the judge she is not currently seen a mental
health professional, but previously obtained medication for postpartum depression when
Piper was two. Elliott says she lost it similarly to
what happened this time and could not sleep. Elliott was
treated at TriStar Centennial Medical Center, the same hospital where
(39:30):
Piper is pronounced dead.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Five years later, is the death penalty on the table
for the fed up mom who held her seven year
old daughter's head underwater until she drowned. Piper's family starts
a memorial along a greenway for the little girl and
(39:51):
want to turn the area into Piper's Pathway to honor
her memory.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
We wait as justice unfolds, but now we remember American
hero Marine interdiction Agent Michael Masetta, US Department Homeland Security,
shot and killed in the line of duty. Masetta served
with US Customs and Border Protection over seven years. Survived
(40:19):
by a grieving daughters, parents, and a sister. American hero
Marine interdiction Agent michel O Masetta. Nancy Grace signing off
goodbye friend.
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, so called monster mom drowns
her daughter to seven years old because she wanted alone time.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I'm Mascy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
A Nashville mother fed up with motherhood, wanting to be
left alone, now accused of drowning her seven year old daughter.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
When EMTs arrived, this is what happens.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Henderson police get a nine to one one call and
arrive to find mom Brandy Elliot, performing CPR on her
seven year old daughter along a popular trail. The girl
is soaking wet, having been pulled from the water fiber.
Elliot is taking by ambulance to a local hospital. Just
before noon, so all of this.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Happens even before lunchtime.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Joining me an all star panel, but straight out to
Lauren Collin, hosts of Prime Time on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Lauren, thank you for being with us. Lauren. Where did
this happen? Nancy?
Speaker 5 (01:07):
This happened in Hendersonville, Tennessee, at Drake's Creek. It's about
a two minute walk and they walked over there. The
creek is very shallow, so let me understand what I'm hearing.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
This was actually a walk away from the apartment because
when this first became known, many people assumed that the
little seven year old girl actually drowned in the bathtub.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
But no, she actually.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Drowned in a shallow part of a lake. So what
exactly happened that morning?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Listen?
Speaker 4 (01:41):
It's Saturday morning and seven year old Piper joins her
mother sitting on the steps outside their apartment.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
It's just the two of them.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Her father, a disabled Irocky Warvette, is in the hospital.
The two set out for a walk along the green
Way next to Drake Creek. The three point nine mile
trail is considered an easy taking about an hour and
eleven minutes to complete. But instead of heading home, Mom
Brandy Elliot, makes a gutbridge and call two Hendersonville Police.
She tells them she's doing CPR on her daughter who
(02:12):
is drowned in the shallow end of the waterway again.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
And I'll start paneling with us right now to figure
out what happened to this little seven year old girl.
Piper to doctor Kendall Crowns, joining us, renowned chief medical
examiner of Terrance County. That's Dallas Fort Worth. Plenty of
business at the Morgue. There a lecturer at the Esteemed
Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. Doctor Kendall crowns the
(02:39):
shallow part of the water. I take that to be
three feet, and under shallow it could even be less.
It could be less than three feet. So a little
girl age seven, normally grown according to growth charts, how
(03:01):
tall would she be?
Speaker 6 (03:02):
Probably about around four foot a little taller than that.
She'd definitely be higher than a three foot level of water,
so well well above that creek level.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And I'm looking at more surrounding that morning, It's Saturday morning.
Seven year old Piper joins her.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Mom, just the two of them.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
The father, a disabled a rocky war vet, is in
the hospital.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Listen.
Speaker 7 (03:30):
John Elliott was injured during his time with the Marines
and stays home with Piper while Brandy Elliott supports the
family with her job at McDonald's. When a complication of
his injuries lands John in the ICU, Brandy is left
to take care of Piper between shifts. After a week
in the hospital, John is stable enough to move out
of critical care. Piper is so excited to finally visit
(03:52):
her dad, she spends all day drawing pictures to decorate
his hospital room. Piper gives her dad plenty of her
famous hugs during the visit before Mom says it's time
to go home.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So let me understand, Lauren Collin, the dad who has
spent a lot of time raising Piper while mom is
at work. He's disabled. Yes, he's not there to protect her.
It's just her and the mom, right, correct.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
Piper and Brandy spent time together during the period that
John was in the hospital, but normally John is the
stay at home dad.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Okay, how did the whole thing start? Listen?
Speaker 8 (04:30):
Marine veteran John Elliott meets the love of his life,
Brandy and Hindersonville, Tennessee. Within a year, John has proposed
and the couple has a big white wedding at Grace
Baptist Church. Brandy's a wonderful stepmother to John's son, and
soon after the couple welcomes their own child, Piper. By
seven years old. Piper is known for her ability to
put a smile on anyone's face. Piper loves to dance,
(04:51):
fish with her dad, dress up as Disney princesses, and
binge Gordon Ramsey cooking shows.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Taking a look.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
At Piper with her dad, I'm just wondering what type
of feeling of helplessness or isolation he was feeling in
the hospital. He spends every single day with daughter Piper
until he lands back in the hospital with a complication
due to war injuries.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
No more Piper.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
She comes to visit him, giving him all of her
drawings and big hugs, and then the two leave.
Speaker 9 (05:26):
Listen When Brandy Elliott gets home with Piper from the hospital,
Elliott wants some time alone. Elliott tells Piper she'll be
back in a few minutes, leaves the seven year old
inside their apartment and sits at the bottom of the
stairs leading to their door.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Worried about her mom.
Speaker 9 (05:40):
Piper follows Elliott downstairs and starts talking. Elliot gets up
and crosses the street to a greenway along Drake's Creek,
with Piper following behind her.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I can just see that.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Little ducks following the mommy duck. Piper's following along behind mom,
and why shouldn't she joining me? Renounce psychiatrist out of
the LA jurisdiction, Doctor Angela Arnold at angela Arnold MD
dot com. Doctor Angie. So far, this sounds like a
(06:10):
normal mother daughter relationship. Now I guess I'm different. I
never want alone time once I had the twins.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
You know, that's what I want.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
I want our family together as much as we can be.
But I'm thinking about this mom, and she's the breadwinner
in the family. The husband is disabled. I'm sure he's
getting some sort of a disability check, but still that's
never enough for a family. So explain to me the
alone time phenomena. What does that mean?
Speaker 10 (06:42):
You know, Nancy, I have a feeling that from what
you've described, she doesn't send a lot of time with
her daughter. The father takes care of the daughter most
of the time, and perhaps she you know, alone time.
I mean, like you said, who the heck as a
lone time when they have a child raised, particularly when
(07:03):
you said that the woman was going from work to
taking care of the child while he was in the hospital.
So this is not a time when any mother that
has any motherly feelings inside of her should crave alone time.
This is a time when she has to step up
and take care of her child out of necessity. So
(07:25):
I'm not quite sure what was going through her mind
that she thought that this was a time in her
life when she got to be alone when the family
apparently needs more support than that.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
And generally speaking, doctor Angie, I'm not familiar. I've never
felt my desire to have alone time away from the twins.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I just don't feel that.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
So explain what that means, not just to this mother,
Brandy Elliott, but in general alone time. I've got a friend,
super smart started a business a reload, a reload business relocation,
like a big company wants to go from New Jersey
to New Mexico. Okay, she built this company where she
(08:15):
takes on the whole corporation and moves them, finds them, schools,
finds them apartments, finds them, homes, the whole shebang. Okay,
you know what she does for alone time? When she
goes to the grocery store when she's not handling the
business that she created and goes shopping during that thirty
minutes or so, walking the grocery aisles. That's her alone time. Okay,
(08:39):
So what is the mental need for alone time?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I don't have it.
Speaker 11 (08:43):
Explain it to Timmy, Well, Nancy, there are people who
are more introverted than extroverted, and they actually need time
all to themselves to recharge.
Speaker 10 (08:56):
In other words, being around a lot of people wear
some out. Perhaps this woman says that she needed a
lone time because she had been because her routine was
different and she was having to go and see the
husband at the hospital, and she needed to be actually
alone to recharge her own batteries. And like I said,
(09:17):
people that are more introverted than extroverted do require that
kind of time.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I'm asking you for a medical opinion, because here's another example.
I have another friend, Okay, when she gets home, when
she gets home from work, she sits in her car
with the doors shut and locked in the garage which
is all closed, for like twenty thirty minutes before she
(09:44):
comes in. All Right, I don't know what that is.
Doesn't she get hot? Doesn't she worried about carbon monoxide poisoning?
That said, that's what I'm seeing. See I just jump
out and run in and boots on the ground.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Right, everybody's not like that.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
And I'm asking you not for some vernacular you've heard,
let's see at your bridge club, but recharging.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
What does it mean to take a mental break.
Speaker 10 (10:15):
There are people that, if they are that are introverts,
and there are people who are extroverts. People who are
extroverts gain their energy from being around a lot of people.
They actually get energized from that. Okay, so Nancy, we
would describe you as an extrovert. You need that, you
don't get tired from being around people. Then there are people.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
I don't need it, doctor Angie. I'm perfectly happy alone.
I lived alone for years and years in New York.
I never even thought about a husband, and children didn't
even cross my mind. Now that I've got them, it's wonderful.
I don't need that. Let me think of some other
way to pose this question. What about decompression. Does that
ring a bell? When your mind has to decompress from
(11:01):
one situation, one stressful situation, to another situation, what does
the brain do during that decompression period.
Speaker 10 (11:09):
She needs the alone time because she can't take the
stimuli in anymore. Nancy. She said, too much stimuli coming
inside of her, whether it be from going to work
than to watching the child, to going to the hospital.
It was too much for this woman. So she needs
she literally needs no stimuli in order for her brain
(11:31):
to rest. And as you said, decompress, she needs a
lack of stimulus. That's why she had to walk outside
and sit on the porch. Unfortunately, that's why she walked
down to the lake, and her little girl didn't understand this,
so she followed her down there. But she needed no
stimuli so that her brain could rest.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Is that some sort of a condition, Doctor Angie Arnold,
It could be.
Speaker 10 (11:56):
It's a condition that we definitely see in people that
are what we can call on the autism spectrum. They
cannot take in too much stimuli, they have to rest.
They mirrors autism. You asked me, are there conditions in
which this exists?
Speaker 5 (12:13):
Yes?
Speaker 10 (12:13):
There are. One of those conditions is the autism spectrum. Okay,
I didn't say she has autism, but that is a
condition in which this exists.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Ben Power is joining me, guys renown criminal defense attorney.
You can find him at legalpowers dot com. Ben serious question.
Could burnout be a defense? Of course it's not. I'll
just give you the answer right now.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Burnout. I'm burned out, so I killed my child?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yeah, that's not going to work. But could some derivative
of that burnout? I mean, the woman works at McDonald's
all day long.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Have you seen the way some customers act to McDonald's.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
We're always seeing videos of them jumping over the counter
if you don't give them their condiment climbing through the utes,
forcing themselves like ejecting themselves out of the through the car,
from the car through the drive through, I mean stress, right,
because you're dealing with the public, does that and then
(13:26):
comes home. But typically the husband is there taking care
of Piper. Right, So during this period while he is
in the hospital Iraqi Warvett, she's working and taking care
of Piper.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Burnout.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Ain't gonna cut it, okay, for lack of a better phrase,
But could it be spun out? You know, like rumpelstilts
could just spin.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Out that straw and get gold. Is there a way
to spin that out to a defense?
Speaker 12 (13:57):
So you're gonna have to anchor that to mental health
condition to show that she essentially just snapped, because to
be able to establish an inanity.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
When I'm sorry, you made me choke on my tee.
Did Ben Powers, who's won a lot of cases in court,
did he actually just say snapped? That's a show on
Oxygen snapped. Okay, that's not a real defense. I don't
care what Oxygen tells you.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
I snapped.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I snap about fifty times a day. But it is
not a defense to murder ben, So you didn't snap.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
On me, because I know that's not a defense.
Speaker 12 (14:36):
Well, so snap to a pronounced degree to where you disassociate,
you become delusional, you don't appreciate what's going on in
that moment. Not snapped as in a frustration about the day,
but snap truly you have an out of body experience,
almost to where you don't fully appreciate what you're doing
as you're doing it. Because that's the nature of an
(14:57):
insanity defense, is that there's a serious meta condition or
mental health condition or mental health defect, and because of
that mental health defect, you don't appreciate the seriousness of
your current actions in that moment. So if the strain
of her day somehow exacerbated a mental health condition to
where she snapped in the sense of disassociated from the
(15:19):
situation while she was doing what she did, then that
could be the grounds for an insanity defense.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
In this situation, that's a lot of woulda could have,
should have, a lot of ifs, but Maybe's listen.
Speaker 9 (15:33):
When Brandy Elliott gets home with Piper from the hospital,
Elliott wants some time alone. Elliott tells Piper she'll be
back in a few minutes, leaves the seven year old
inside their apartment and sits at the bottom of the
stairs leading to their door. Worried about her mom, Piper
follows Elliott downstairs and starts talking. Elliott gets up and
crosses the street to a greenway along Brake's Creek, with
(15:53):
Piper following behind her.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
The mother allegedly tells police she was having a bad
day and Piper would not give her what she wanted,
time alone.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Time alone.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Now Piper's dead, and according to reports, her mother, Brandy Elliot,
compared her daughter to a let me make sure I've
got this right, a large mouthed bass in the water.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Listen.
Speaker 8 (16:22):
Seven year old Piper continues following behind her mom on
the trail and asks where they're going several times. Then
Elliott grabs Piper by the wrist and leads her down
to the creek. Elliott holds Piper's head under the water
and tells her to be quiet. When Piper finally stops struggling,
Elliott pulls her from the water and starts CPR and
calls nine to one one. Piper is rushed to try
(16:44):
Star Centennial Medical Center, but it's too late. The little
girl dies and mom, Brandy Elliott, is immediately arrested for murder.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Okay, these comments didn't help at all, Lauren Collins joining me,
investigative reporter and star a primetime crime on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Lauren.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Apparently, the mom stated her daughter was like a large
mouth bass under the water and that she held her mother,
Brandy Elliot, the so called monster mom holds her daughter
under the water Piper until she quote felt her bubbling.
(17:23):
I'm getting this from court documents. What can you tell me,
Lauren Colin, Yes.
Speaker 5 (17:27):
In addition to that, Nancy, it absolutely discussed me. I mean,
I have an eight year old daughter. I can't even imagine.
But the reports actually say that Brandy tried to shush
her daughter as she was holding her down.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
She actually was like shush, shush, shush.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
She wanted to get her to stop making noise, stop struggling,
and so I believe once she realized Piper was gone.
I'm obviously not a doctor, but she snapped out of it.
She realized what she did, and then she called nine
to one one.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Hold on just a moment, you, Lauren colinenpowers keep bringing
up the verb snap, using it as some sort of defense.
You claimed, you stated, Lauren Colin, and I just want
to be very clear about this that when she after
she snapped and she came out of it, came out
of what she told her daughter, I want alone time,
(18:19):
go away, leave me alone.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
She comes then from the hospital.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
She's driving perfectly fine, she's talking to the daughter, they're communicating,
she decides to go for a walk. Everything's fine until
she quote gets fed up.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Her words, not my words.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
That is not snapping, and then you come out of it.
I'm fed up right now because none of this is
a defense for drowning your daughter, your seven year old daughter,
and comparing her to a large mouth bass.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I agree.
Speaker 5 (18:58):
I just think that when something is so horrific like
this that we don't know what else to think except
for something came over this woman, something happened inside her brain.
Speaker 12 (19:09):
That didn't happen before.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
It's just so.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Horrific, Colin, something came over this woman. If that were
a defense, everybody in Riker's right now would be walking
free because something.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Came over them.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
That's what you know a lawyer.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I remember a rapist told me he broke into a home.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
And the woman came out and went, oh who are you?
Speaker 1 (19:36):
And quote my little nature got up. Oh god, and
he raped her. Something just came over him. Yes, an erection,
that's what happened. And now she's dead. Okay, something came
over me. That's not a defense. Even Ben Powers, veteran
trial lawyer, cannot spin something came over that woman into
(20:00):
defense empowers.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Please tell me you cannot.
Speaker 12 (20:02):
Well, so the dovetail off what Lauren was saying. She's
the type of jury that I would want a trial
because she's able to understand that this is so unhuman,
so counter to being a child's mother, that there must
be something wrong, because there's no other logical explanation other
than there's a disassociation. There's some kind of disconnect by
(20:23):
the mother in that moment, because it's so horrific to
think that.
Speaker 10 (20:28):
Capable of this.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Your heasin So okay, you see a woman I guess
been powers charged with murder and you immediately play the
mom card with the jury. I know where you're coming from.
Did you hear that, Lauren Colin? I hope you're proud
because he wants you, the defense attorney wants.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
You on the jury. You know what.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Let me go to Julie Gates joining us Major Law enforcement,
crime scene investigator, forensic science program coordinator instructor at Southern
Crescent College.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Julie Gates, thank you for being with us. Could you
explain the evidence in this case?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Am I the only Am I the only one that
believes that snapped and something came over her? Is not
a defense? I mean, think about it, Julie Gates. How
long it takes, which I'm going to have to get
from doctor Kendall Crown's how long it typically takes for
someone to die of drowning.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
That's how long.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
You know, Julie, You've heard this argue to many a jury.
Intent can be formed and the twinkling of the moment,
the blink of an eye, the time it takes you
hold a gun and pull the trigger that fast. It
does not require some long drawn out plans, such as
poisoning someone over a period of weeks or months.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
It can be formed.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Just like that, she held a child under the water
until she was quote Bubbling told her to quote her words,
be quiet, and that the child looked like a large
mouth bas under the water.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
That's plenty of time to form intent, and she clearly
knew she was doing. Help me, Julie, I agree with
you totally.
Speaker 13 (22:13):
I knew think she knew what she was doing the
whole time. And if i'm the doctor, can correct me
on this. But I think it takes anywhere from three
to five minutes to drown, so you at least have
three to five minutes she's holding her under that water.
I am not a parent myself, but I know you
just don't have time. I have a needy dog. I
(22:33):
know it's not a comparison to a child, but this
dog requires attention from the time I get up in
the morning to the time I get go to bed
at night. So I mean the same with kids. And
like I said, I'm not a mom, but my mom
had three children and I'm an identical twin, so I
know she had it.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I know you have to be a mom to understand stress.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
And your job with major law enforcement crime scene investigator,
you have a lot of stress because if you screw up,
the wrong person could go to jail, or nobody goes
to jail, the right person doesn't go to jail, So
that's a lot of stress. It doesn't matter what the
stress is. Stress equals stress. It's a common denominator with
(23:21):
all of us. But do you ever want to just
strangle your dog and kill him.
Speaker 13 (23:25):
Nope, I sure don't.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I love her to death.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Before you get too deep into the fear feelings about
your dog, I want you to hear how this mother,
if she can be called that changes her story.
Speaker 9 (23:36):
Speaking with Hendersonville Police after her arrest, Brandy Elliott says
she was having a rough day and Piper would not
give her what she wanted, time alone. Elliott says she
held Piper under the water quote like a large mouthed bass,
until there were bubbles. Elliott claims she then realized what
she had done, started CPR and called for help.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Doctor Angela Arnold, did you hear her state that I
held her underwater like a large mouth bass until she
was bubbling, in other words, the bubbles coming out of
her daughter's mouth, and then they quit because she had
a quote rough day and because she was quote fed up.
Speaker 10 (24:17):
So, Nancy, if I may have a minute to explain
something to the viewers. There are five reasons that have
been identified by someone named doctor phil Resnik, who's a
famous psychiatrist. There are five motives or reasons for someone
to kill their child, and that's called philicide. One of
(24:37):
the reasons is what two of the guests have been describing,
and that is acute psychosis. There can be there and
that is what they are describing as snapped. Okay, if
the mother has been under a tremendous amount of stress,
if she also has a history of a mental illness,
she can have an acute psychosis that over because of
(25:01):
that stress she can be having Typically they're having command
hallucinations that tell her to hurt the child. That is
one of the five reasons for philicide. The other ones
aren't really The other ones aren't appropriate here and unwanted child,
fatal maltreatment, altruism. In other words, you think the child
(25:23):
will be better off dead than alive, and spousal revenge.
That's the rarest reason for philocide in this case. As
two guests have described the snap, she could have become
acutely psychotic. And as we've said on many other shows before,
people can come in and out of psychosis. So she
(25:45):
described we know that she was stressed this day, something
stressed her out. We also know that she has a
history of a mental illness, So could she have acutely
become psychotic because the little girl would not leave her
alone and she drowned.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
She was asked in court, as was her lawyer, do
you want a mental competency or insanity test?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
The lawyer and she the mom said no.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
She has no history of depression other than seven years before.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
When she had postpartum.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
There was no hallucination, which is one of your reasons
that you cite for killing your child. She had no
mental illness. She had never complained of mental illness. She
has been observed by the court. No mental illness.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
There was no.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Altruistic reason, which is one of the reasons you mentioned,
and there was no spousal revenge. To go forward in
advance to theory that you are stating acute psychosis, a jury
would have to believe that she went into psychosis immediately
when her daughter wanted attention, and then was out of
(26:57):
that psychosis twenty minutes later, when AMT's arrived Crime Stories
with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Henderson police get a nine to one one call and
arrive to find mom Brandy Elliott, performing CPR on her
seven year old daughter along a popular trail. The girl
is soaking wet, having been pulled from the water piper.
Elliot is taking by ambulance to a local hospital.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Just before noon, Brandy Elliott reportedly tells her daughter Piper
to be quiet as she holds her underwater quote like
a large mouthed bass.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
And what about the dad lying in the hospital? The
Iraqi war.
Speaker 8 (27:46):
Vet listen Marine veteran John Elliott meets the love of
his life, Brandy in Hindersonville, Tennessee. Within a year, John
has proposed and the couple has a big white wedding
at Grace Baptist Church. Brandy's a wonderful stepmother to johns
and soon after the couple welcomes their own child, Piper.
By seven years old, Piper is known for her ability
to put a smile on anyone's face. Piper loves to dance,
(28:09):
fish with her dad, dress up as Disney princesses, and
binge Gordon Ramsey cooking shows. John Elliott was injured during
his time with the Marines and stays home with Piper,
while Brandy Elliott supports the family with her job at McDonald's.
When a complication of his injuries lands John in the ICU,
Brandy is left to take care of Piper between shifts.
(28:29):
After a week in the hospital, John is stable enough
to move out of critical care Piper is so excited
to finally visit her dad, she spends all day drawing
pictures to decorate his hospital room.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Take a listen to what he has to say. This
is from our friends at WTVF.
Speaker 7 (28:44):
They came into my room and told me that she'd
drown Her Mom's going to jail.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
I'm proud of the little girl I raised. I'm just
sad she's gone.
Speaker 9 (28:58):
I'm sirking with Hendersonville police after her arrest, Brandy Elliott
says she was having a rough day and Piper would
not give her what she wanted. Time alone. Elliott says
she held Piper under the water quote like a large
mouthed bass, until they were bubbles. Elliott claims she then
realized what she had done, started CPR and called for.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Help, joining me in All Star panel.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
But back to doctor Kendall, Crown's chief medical Examiner Arrant County.
Doctor crowns, I, not just anecdotally, but statistically, have learned
that very often when mothers kill their children, it is
through drowning.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Have you observed that, Yes.
Speaker 6 (29:38):
They have. Over the course of my career, I've seen
several instances where mothers have drowned their children. Also drug
them and stabbed them as well. But drowning is a
fairly common.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
One, you know, doctor kindall Crowns. I've noticed that, and
this is allso statistical. I can follow this up with
Julie Gates, doctor kindall Crowns. I've noticed that when women
commit murder, very often it's a quote soft kill. In
other words, there's not stabbing. I mean sometimes there is,
but typically there's not. There's not stabbing, there's not shooting.
(30:12):
There's a lot of poisoning, a lot of drowning, a
lot of suffocation, but not like clubbing the victim dead,
such as Ted Bundy did in the Coyomega House.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Have you noticed that as well. I learned this before.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
I observed it when I was reading method and Assessment
of homicide and suicide. There is absolutely a statistical correlation
between drowning and mothers that kill. I don't understand it.
I'm not a shrink, but I know it to be true.
And you're saying you have witnessed that as well.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
It's correct.
Speaker 6 (30:49):
Usually males have a higher level of brutality when they
kill an individual and females don't, so, especially with the
individuals where they of their own child. We don't see
the extreme examples of violence, although occasionally with individuals with
mental illness there will be a high level of mutilation
(31:10):
and things of that nature, but typically it's a drowning
or poisoning.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
How long would it take for a child to drown for.
Speaker 6 (31:19):
Anyone, So in this situation with the mom pushing her underwater,
child's struggling. So because she's struggling, she's going to use
up oxygen quicker, so she may begin her mind will
actually become starved of oxygen and will force her to breathe.
That could happen after about thirty seconds to at the
(31:39):
far outside three minutes. Once your mind forces you to breathe,
you inhale all that water in and then you vomit
the water back out. You inhale it again, and you
pass out in about thirty seconds, and then after the
five minute mark you're pretty much brain dead. So you're
looking at a total process from start to finish about
anywhere from three to five five minutes.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Doctor Tundel crowns. What would the drowning victim experience during
the drowning.
Speaker 6 (32:06):
Well, they would be conscious, they would be afraid because
they're forced underwater, they'd be trying to hold their breath
while struggling to get back above the surface to get
to air, and then finally their brain is going to
force them to breathe in and at that point you're
going to inhale all that oxygen and gag and begin
vomiting it back out and then go into unconsciousness. So
(32:28):
it'd be a lot of fear for about that three
to five minute brain.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Three to five minute And what happens to the human
brain when they're deprived of oxygen.
Speaker 6 (32:38):
It basically, when the brain's deprived of oxygen, the brain
will want oxygen so will force you to breathe of course,
and as it can't get oxygen, it will make you
go unconscious.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Piper's father, John Elliott, a disabled Iraq war veteran, says
I will miss my baby girl forever.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Not in the first time a child has been murdered
by mom. Of course, she's innocent under our jurisprudence until
proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Will a jury by
a defense that mommy snapped after she says she was
quote fed up and had a quote bad day and
held her daughter under the water like a quote large
(33:26):
mouth bass that will be up to a jury. And then,
and only then, if they return a guilty verdict, will
she be in fact a killer? It's a technical legal
term of art. Will a jury by it? I don't know,
but I do know. This is not the first time
a child has been drowned at the hands of their
(33:47):
own mom. For instance, let's take Esperanza Harding.
Speaker 14 (33:53):
Esperanza Harding is trying to enjoy a bath when her
eighth month old son, Matteo starts crying inconsolably from his
play in Harding's hotel room. Tired of his incessant screams,
Harting drowns Mateo in her drawn bath, then sends a
picture of the baby floating face down to her boyfriend.
The boyfriend comes to the hotel room and helps Herding
(34:13):
shove Mateo's body in a backpack, then suggests she throw
the bag in a dumpster like she's just taking out
the trash.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Wow, did you hear that?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Doctor Angie es Bron's a Hearting drowned her child because
he quote ruined her bath.
Speaker 10 (34:28):
Again, Nancy, it can these. First of all, it's different
when it happens to an eight month old baby versus
a seven year old child. The conditions can be different.
This woman could have been suffering from some sort of
post part of depression. The baby's under a year old.
She could have also become acutely psychotic. She may have
(34:49):
not wanted the child. We don't know, right, but these
are things that mothers do to their child when they're
not well and when they are very stressed. Apparently she
was taking a bath to rest. The baby bothered her,
we may say pushed her over the edge, but what
(35:10):
we do know is she was very stressed.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Then there is Karina Mustafa. Listen.
Speaker 14 (35:16):
Karina Mustafa comes out to the front porch where her
husband is playing with their toddler, and immediately starts yelling, Dad,
let the baby play in a plant he knocked over
and the toddler is covered in potting soil. Mustafa scoops
up the child and runs to the bathroom, locking the
door behind her. When Mustafa's husband manages to open the door,
he finds his wife holding their child under the water.
(35:37):
Dad performs CPR and the child is stabilized at the hospital.
Karina Mustafa charged with aggravated child abuse.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Well, Doc Dorangie, the baby did it again.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
This time the baby knocked over a potted plant and
got money, so the mom.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Just try to kill it. I guess that's postpartum depression.
Speaker 10 (35:57):
Nancy. I know that you and I have all and
disagreed on this, okay, and I think that we always will.
And yes, I think that there are evil people in
the world, and I do believe that it is often
driven by some form of mental illness. Sees these acts
that these women perform.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
And then there's the mother of all child killers who
kills both of her little boys because she wanted sex.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Listen, my love.
Speaker 9 (36:29):
And he's a lady who come on at door, and
he's some guy that jump into a red light with
her car with her two.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Kids in it.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
It ain't took off and he got out of call
here at Ohio and he's got.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
A Mayo let her call and I don't see Ruth
and I.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Need to go along, you know, down here and a car.
Speaker 13 (36:47):
But we need to add we kind of acting up.
Speaker 12 (36:52):
A magnal protege.
Speaker 15 (36:53):
What color was it?
Speaker 1 (36:55):
A burgundy magnal protege.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
We don't get him, going pay him.
Speaker 15 (36:59):
They got two Susan Smith has been arrested and we'll
be charged with two counts of murder in connection with
the death of her children, Michael three and Alexander fourteen months.
It was a vehicle, a nineteen ninety Masda driven by Smith,
was located late Thursday afternoon in Lake John de Long,
(37:24):
near Union.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
To Lauren Colin, investigative reporter Lauren Colin, that's how a
lot of women get away with murder, because it's very
hard to imagine. When I think of my mom, I
think about nothing but love and sacrifice. What she did
to get us three through and put us through college,
and put us through grad school, and to this day,
(37:46):
sacrificing herself for us. When you see a woman sitting
at the defense council table, you know that the child
is dead, you can't help but think of your own
mother in your mind. That's how tap mom walked, according
to me. But Lauren Conlin, is there any evidence in
(38:07):
this case other than postpartum depression that this woman, Brandy
Elliott had after her child was born of mental illness.
Speaker 5 (38:19):
Nancy August nineteen. Brandy Elliott appeared too bad against the
wall of her jail cell allegedly and then dive head
first from the top bunk to the concrete cell floor. Again,
I'm not a doctor, but is that mental illness? It
appears that she wanted to harm herself, so we could
(38:39):
consider that perhaps.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Okay, I appreciate your civilian diagnosis of a woman who
wants to get out of general population and a woman
who has no history at all a mental illness. Now
behind bars and kit, could I point out also, Lauren Colin,
while you're talking about that, let's talk about her reaction
(39:03):
when she found out she could get the death penalty.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Take a listen.
Speaker 7 (39:07):
At a bond hearing, Brandy Elliott sobs when she is
informed that she could possibly face the death penalty. Elliott
tells the judge she is not currently seen a mental
health professional, but previously obtained medication for postpartum depression when
Piper was two. Elliott says she lost it similarly to
what happened this time and could not sleep. Elliott was
treated at TriStar Centennial Medical Center, the same hospital where
(39:30):
Piper is pronounced dead.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Five years later, is the death penalty on the table
for the fed up mom who held her seven year
old daughter's head underwater until she drowned. Piper's family starts
a memorial along a greenway for the little girl and
(39:51):
want to turn the area into Piper's Pathway to honor
her memory.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
We wait as justice unfolds, but now we remember American
hero Marine interdiction Agent Michael Masetta, US Department Homeland Security,
shot and killed in the line of duty. Masetta served
with US Customs and Border Protection over seven years. Survived
(40:19):
by a grieving daughters, parents, and a sister. American hero
Marine interdiction Agent michel O Masetta. Nancy Grace signing off
goodbye friend.
Host
Nancy Grace
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