December 16, 2025 • 49 mins
Romy Reiner, the daughter of Hollywood legend Rob Reiner, is unable to reach her parents all day Sunday, so she decides to stop by their house, as she lives just across the street.
At around 3:30 p.m., Romy lets herself into her parents' Brentwood estate and discovers her mother and father, Rob and Michele Singer Reiner, dead. Romy dials 911 in a panic, but EMTs can do nothing but call for LAPD backup.
LAPD quickly responds to the residence of Rob and Michele, located in West Los Angeles. Working with the coroner's office, detectives can identify the victims definitively as Rob and Michele Reiner.
Rob Reiner was born into the business; his father, Carl Reiner, is a legend behind the popular "Dick Van Dyke Show," and his mother, Estelle, performed as a cabaret singer.
Rob garners fame when he lands a role on the hit series, "All in the Family."
Rob marries Penny Marshall of "Laverne & Shirley," and though they separate after 10 years, Rob remains close with Marshall’s daughter, whom he adopted, Tracy Reiner.
A highly successful actor, Rob Reiner, tries his hand behind the scenes, flourishing in a directing role. Reiner’s directing debut rock band mockumentary, "This is Spinal Tap," becomes an instant cult classic.
His 1986 "Stand By Me" received Academy Award and Golden Globe nominations.
Rob does it again with the film adaptation of "The Princess Bride," and again with "When Harry Met Sally," "Misery," and "A Few Good Men."
Less than 24 hours after attending a Hollywood star's annual holiday party, Rob and Michele are found dead in bed with their throats slit.
Rob and Michele attend Conan O’Brien’s annual holiday party and ask for permission to bring their troubled, addicted son, Nick Reiner, allegedly to keep an eye on him.
The night quickly turns sour when an argument breaks out between father and son. Party goers also allege Nick's behavior was odd and unnerving during the party.
Joining Nancy Grace:
- Philip Dubé - Former Court-Appointed Counsel, Los Angeles County Public Defenders: Criminal & Constitutional Law, Forensics & Mental Health Advocacy; X: PhilipCDube, IG: PhilipDube, YouTube: PhilipDube3922
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker," and featured in hit show "Paris in Love" on Peacock; Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLive
- Moses Castillo - Private Investigator for the Dordulian Law Group, Former Supervisor Detective with the Los Angeles Police Department
- Rob Shuter - Host: Naughty But Nice Podcast, Author of Newly released Novel, “It Started With A Whisper," and Former publicist of Sean Combs; IG: @naughtygossip
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet," and Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;" X: @JoScottForensic
- Jessica Finn - Senior Investigative Reporter at The U.S. Sun; jessicafinnnyc (Twitter/ IG) @jessicafinn.bsky.social (Bluesky); Read Her Latest Story on Rob Reiner
- Sydney Sumner - Investigative Reporter, ‘Crime Stories’
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
A hotel full of blood discovered after the murders of
a Hollywood legend, the iconic Rob Reiner and his beautiful wife,
Michelle Singer. Reiner both stabbed Dad, multiple stab wounds, both
their throats.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Slit in their own home.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I mean, see, Grace, this is crime Stories. I want
to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Bub Reiner, an accomplished Hollywood director, has it all, a
thriving career, a beautiful family, and a picture perfect life.
But behind the scenes, deep family struggles begin to arise.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
As information is now lee king out, we hear the
original NA one to a fire department.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Listen here one c.
Speaker 5 (01:01):
L SO.
Speaker 6 (01:02):
Approximately three point forty this afternoon, Los Ange Police officers,
along with the Los Angeles City Fire Department, responded to
the two hundred block of Chadbourne Avenue here in the
city of Brentwood. Upon arrival, they determined that there were
two deceased individuals inside of the residents.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Joining us tonight, Jessica Finn, senior investigative reporter US Sun,
whose latest article deals with what led up that night
to the murders of Rob.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Reiner and wife Michelle Singer Reiner.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Tell me about how the fire department ended up being
the first responder.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Let's just start right there.
Speaker 7 (01:40):
Yeah, Nancy, So apparently Rob and Michelle Reiner had a
planned massage appointment that afternoon on during the afternoon on Sunday,
and when they didn't answer the door, the messuse kept
trying to call and knock and ring the bell, and
eventually she decided that she was going to leave, and
so they're orders came across the streets. She lives right
(02:02):
across the road, and decided to check on her parents,
and that's when she discovered that her parents were no
longer with us. And she called nine one one. And
what's interesting about that nine one one call?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Do she immediately sure, Jessica no longer with us? Okay, Jessica,
I am a crime victim of violent crime. I've devoted
my life to seeking the truth in our criminal justice system.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I am a former learning prosecutor.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Who specialized in murders, serial rape, serial chimeless station in
arson of any type. So it's not that they are
no longer with us. They were murdered. And I'm going
to explain tonight, along with this panel of experts, how
police knew immediately when they entered that home.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
This was no suicide. Pack was no suicide murder.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
They knew that Robiner beloved and his wife, the inspiration
for the end of When Harry Met Sally, were murdered. Okay,
you know what, Jessica, I want to go to Doctor
Bethany Marshall joining us tonight renounce psycho analysts from.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
This jurisdiction, author of deal Breaker.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
You can see her now on Peacock and you can
find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Doctor Bethany Marshall.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I've been to many, well countless murder scenes, but it
sticks in my mind my own dad at his funeral,
when I hugged him in the coffin and fixed his hair.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Again.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Sometimes I wish I had never done that, because that's
that memory. I can't imagine what it does to a child.
This is romy they're one of their children who lived
across the street from them, comes over walking in thinking
hey Mom and Dad, Mom, Dad, no answer, nothing.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
The TV's not on, the Christmas music's not playing. What
and then she finds their bodies.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
She will never get that out of her mind, and
she must have not been able to accept it at first,
like why are mom and dad in the floor, and
only to discover.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
They had multiple stab.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Wounds, multiple which Jove Scott's gonna probably tell us in
a few moments that subdued them before their throats were slashed.
I mean, Bethany, rob Reiner was one of the kindest
people I've ever met.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
I happened, he happened to be friendly for no reason.
He didn't have to do that.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
He's an icon when we were living out there during
Dancing with the Stars and was just an amazing person.
You know, one of those people that their warmth and
their generosity just shines out and you can spot them
a mile away. That's him. And someone asked was a
secret to a happy marriage? And he said, Mary, somebody happy.
(05:06):
So I'm guessing his wife Michelle saying temperament. But back
to the daughter stumbling upon her parents, trying to make
sense of it, finding them slaughtered in their own home.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
She will never get past that, Bethany.
Speaker 8 (05:23):
Nancy. I have an unforgettable memory about you your book
signing many years ago. Everybody was leaving and I heard
this blood curdling scream and I thought, who just screamed?
And it was you, and what had happened was your
dad had fainted, and you were so concerned that you screamed.
(05:45):
You love your dad so much and you were so
scared to see him like that. And I will never
forget that, Nancy, And I think about this daughter who
lived across the street from her. That's how close this
family was. Her kids were with grandma and grandpa every
(06:06):
single day. Coming across a scene like that, seeing your
parents stabbed, and all of a sudden reality, the reality
that something has happened to them, matches some sense of
did somebody and my family contribute to this? You know, Nancy,
(06:27):
Trauma is not just what happens to us. It's witnessing
something horrible happening to the people we love the most.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
That's more.
Speaker 8 (06:36):
That's more traumatic than an individual being raped or you know, accosted, assaulted,
something bad happening to them is looking at the people
they loved the most and seeing that something bad happened
to that person. That person's dead, that person's in the
hospital bed, that person has had some horrible accident or disfigurement.
(06:59):
And that's this poor daughter had to go through, not
only her parents, but Grandma and grandpa to her kids
seen that they had suffered in this violent, violent scene.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
You know, Bethany, you just brought up a really good point.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
And guys, we are getting right back to the facts, okay,
what we know as of tonight. But Bethany, you just ignited,
reignited a memory. We used to live right across the
street from my mother's mother, my mama Lucy that I
named my.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Daughter after she upraised us. And it was very, very loving.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
And I think that's a testament to Rhiner and Singer
his wife, because their daughter chose everywhere she could live.
You know, they gave her whatever she wanted, they you know,
out of love that she demanded it, but she chose
to live directly across the street from them like we
did across from my grandmother, my mama.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
That tells me how close the family was and.
Speaker 8 (07:59):
How well that is important, Nancy, because of what you're saying,
the family was close, but also whoever did this to
a husband and wife who were actually quite loving and
close to their family and provided everything for their children
and their grandchildren. And we have to hold that in
(08:21):
our minds as we talk about this double homicide, that
these were very, very very loving parents and grandparents.
Speaker 9 (08:28):
LAPD responded to a residence the residents of Rob and
Michelle Reiner, located in West Los Angeles Division. At that location,
they found two deceased adults, a male and a female.
Through the night, working with the Coroner's office, they were
able to identify them definitively as Rob and Michelle Reiner.
Speaker 10 (08:50):
Unable to get in touch with their parents all day Sunday,
Rummy Reinder decides to make a house visit. Around three
point thirty, Rummy lets herself into their Brentwood home and
discovers a horror scene. Rob and Michelle Reiner stabbed and
their throats slit.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
You were hearing Chief Jim McDonald LAPD. Now earlier you
were hearing from the Deputy Chief, Alan Hamilton.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
This is from our friends at Fox eleven. You know I.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Noticed at the get go, at the very get go,
straight out to Rob Shooter joining us p R Guru
who has worked with every Hollywood celebrity.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I can think of.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Author of a brand new book and it's amazing. It's
on Amazon titled It Started with a Whisper, Rob. Did
you notice at the beginning, at the very beginning, Hamilton,
Deputy Chief Hamilton did not reveal who the deceased were.
(09:50):
I mean, anyone, especially in our business, could figure out
that it's Reiner and his wife because they said an
adult male, adult female aged seventy eight and sixty eight
found in the home of Hollywood legend Rob Reiner. I'm like,
who else can it be? So we knew, but the
(10:11):
LA Law enforcement would not stated.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Did you notice that? I wonder why I did? I did?
Speaker 11 (10:16):
I noticed this. I find my experience and I've been
doing this a long time, Nancy is the police departments
are very very cautious, very very careful. Their pr departments,
their spokespeople never ever want to put out information that
they have to change. So they always air on the
side of being cautious. Why would they not. Now as reporters,
as journalists, we hit the phones, we talked to our sources.
(10:39):
We use our common sense here, and so I think
this was once again an example of a police department
being cautious. Probably a good idea. However, I do think
there probably should be some changes here. As technology has progressed.
You can see things now on social media. We were
watching videos from outside the host the house being live streamed.
(10:59):
Nancy and so the news has really picked up its pace.
It's fast, it's changing every ten to fifteen minutes. The
police department have yet to catch up with that reality.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
You know, Rob, Can I see the video of Ryaner
playing with his dog again, specifically that side shot of
him the first time I met him, very very kind.
I was dashing out at studio City of Dancing with
the Stars on one of the very first nights, actually
trying to find my mom and dad, who had come
(11:32):
and moved down the hall from us to help me
take care of the twins. And I ran by a
guy standing on the very top step going down this big, big,
big stair stair entrance, and it was him, and he
went Nancy, and I turned around and I looked at him,
(11:52):
and at first I thought it was his father, because
they look very similar. And of course when you see
him in all of his professional photos, he's all different
than he looks in that and the video we're showing you.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
But that's how he looked.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
That night when I first saw the photo, I mean,
the video of him with the dog. That's how he
looked that night, and except he had on this really
gorgeous suit and he was you know, in his finery,
and I looked a him and I'm like, that's not
his dad, that's Meathead, that's Rob Ryner. And I was
(12:30):
immediately starstruck because of his brilliance.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
His brilliance, you know, when he first appeared on All in.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
The Family as Meathead, one of his iconic roles, I
don't think people realized just how brilliant he was unless
you watched it and realized his comedic timing was just impeccable.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
And instead of being a bit character in that, he
became a star right along with Jeans Stapleton and Carol
O'Connor and Sally Struthers.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
I mean, he was a star on screen and off.
But that is how he looked when I first met him.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Except in his beautiful, gorgeous suit, not all decked out
like you see celebrities and even men with fake hair,
in fake makeup, in fake everything.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
He was just genuine. He was.
Speaker 11 (13:21):
He was, that's the word, Nancy genuine. I was lucky
enough to have met him several times to talk to him.
I'm always cautious. I bumped into him the first time
I met him in a restaurant in Hollywood, and he
came over to my table and he said, I like
your work. And I was shocked because I work as
a gossip columnist and entertainment reporter. And I was curious.
And he was like, no, you find a way to
(13:42):
tell a story in a naughty but nice way.
Speaker 12 (13:44):
That's what he said.
Speaker 11 (13:45):
It's cheeky, it's funny, it's everything that he was. He
didn't shy away from the truth. He liked the truth.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
He wasn't a friend, so he knew the name of
your naughty but nice That's interesting. I was always stern
rob that he actually knew of all the people, how
could he know my name?
Speaker 3 (14:03):
I was just stunned that.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And he must have had an incredible memory to know
all of that. Okay, I veered a so off course,
let's get out of the weeds and back on track.
That night, immediately straight out to Joseph Scott Morgan's joining
us for my purpose. I like Joe Scott Morgan because
he's a death investigator, right, he has investigated over one
(14:30):
thousand death scenes.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Now, as you know, there are a few ways to die.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
You've got natural causes, you've got suicide, you've got accident,
you have unexplained, and you have homicide. Okay, those are
modes of death. Then there's a multitude of causes of
death strangulation, poisoning, stabbying, gunshot with heart attack, blah blah
blah blah. Not only that, he is Professor Forensics Jacksonville
(14:59):
State University, which houses an incredible criminal procedure program, author
of Blood Beneath My Feet and star of Hitting You
podcast Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan Joe Scott.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Immediately they knew it was a homicide.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
One, no forest entry, the daughter let herself in with
her own key. Obviously, no sex attack to the naked eye.
They knew immediately this was not a suicide pact. I'm
guessing that what the knife wasn't lying there because for instance,
(15:36):
you go on a scene and the person has shot themselves,
where's the gun?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
If the gun's not there, they didn't shoot themselves.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
So there are many ways to determine immediately this is
not a suicide homicide, it's not a suicide. Pack Explain
how they knew and what you would be looking for
the moment you walked into that scene. It's a Hollywood celebrity,
it's an icon, don't screw up the crime scene.
Speaker 13 (16:03):
No you can't, because that's where the tail is going
to be told, Nancy. And one of the things that
would give this way immediately is that I can guarantee
you that this is a bloodbath. There will be copious
amounts of blood that are spread not only on their persons,
on the victims, but also on the floor surrounding their bodies,
(16:23):
or on whatever surface they might have been lying on
at that particular time. There would probably be obvious signs
of struggle, because you know, Nancy, out of all of
these modalities of death, when you begin to think about
sharp forse injuries, these are the most personal of all
of them. You know, you think about somebody being shot, Okay, yeah,
(16:45):
it can be personal, but it's not up close and
personal like a sharp edged weapon is. So there would
have been a struggle, there would have been pain centers firing,
there would have been action and reaction to every time
they were either stab or cut in thisarticular case. And
one more bit of info here, whoever perpetrated this this
(17:06):
horrendous butchery, they are going to have a significant amount
of blood on their person as well. You know, many
times at these scenes where we have cases like this,
you will see an attempt on the part of the
alleged perpetrator to try to clean themselves up. You can
go into like a bathroom and these sorts of things,
(17:28):
and you'll see that there's efforts being put forth, you know,
over a sink, you know, where they're trying to clean
themselves up. Maybe an attempt. I've had cases where people
have actually taken their clothes off and washed them at
a scene, uh, taking showers, all those sorts of things.
Because you know, one of the things that will draw
attention to you, even for somebody that is unfamiliar with
having committed a homicide, one of the things that will
(17:50):
draw attention to you quicker than anything else is that
blood is all over you. People are going to ask questions,
You're going to draw their sight at that particular So
this is certainly what I would frame as an evidence
rich environment. The trick here, though, is securing the scene
and making sure that everything, and I mean everything in
(18:12):
this case is detailed. I'm not saying that mister Hiner
and his wife are special. However, you know and I
know that the glare of the lights on this case
are going to be so intense that you better make
sure that you have everything covered moving forward.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
And I want to clarify when I said this is
a Hollywood celebrities place, don't screw up what I was
really getting at, and you echoed it to Moses Castillo
joining me out of this jurisdiction OC private investigator for
the Dordulian Group, former supervisor detective from the LAPDS at
(18:50):
Moses Castillo Investigations dot Com. What I meant by that
was everybody is going to be a look you low.
Everybody on the police for the fire Department, they're like,
Rob Reiner, let's look inside.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
I mean, it's natural curiosity.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I'm not stating that they're taking pictures of the crime
scene and sending them to Rob Shooter. I'm saying that
out of a natural curiosity, you're.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Like, Wow, this place is beautiful or whatever translation. That
messes up your crime scene.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
It deteriorates, it degenerates, it contaminates your crime scene. The
more people that trump around in there. I hope they
closed it down pronto. Moses, what would be your SOP
standard operating procedure on that as a supervising l E
with the LAPD, Betsy.
Speaker 14 (19:47):
As you heard that now on one call actually was
the radio dispatcher for the officer. The dispatcher is announcing
to the officers the fire department of question of backup.
That tells me that the fire department person, now that
got there, they noticed that, Oh my gosh, we have
two people that were murdered. We don't know if the
suspect is still here or around here. This is a
huge property. It's it's a it's a it's a beautiful home.
(20:09):
I mansioned. So they called for a backup, not knowing
if the suspect is still here. So that's how the
initially came out. So again I agree with Joe Scott.
This is a bloody crime scene. The officers knew right
from the very beginning that they had a homicide on
their hands, and that initiated the response to LAPD's elite
team of Robberty Homicide Division.
Speaker 8 (20:28):
Detectives one CD at.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
The backup.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
So approximately three point forty this afternoon, Los Ange Police officers,
along with the Los Angeles City Fire Department, responded to
the two hundred block of Chadbourne Avenue here in the
city of Brentwood. Upon arrival, they determined that there were
two deceased individuals inside of.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
The residents.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Crime stories with Nancy.
Speaker 15 (21:02):
Grace Throby, their youngest child arrives at the house to
find her parents brutally murdered. As the investigation unfolds, all
signs point to someone close to the family.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
The LAPD seeses control of the scene.
Speaker 6 (21:20):
Listen, the current death investigation that is being conducted by
the Los Angeles Police Department is going to be haled
by the Homicide Special Section of Robbery Homicide Division of
the Los Angeles Police Department.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
That from our friends at Fox eleven, you were hearing
Deputy Chief Alan Hamilton straight out to Phillip Debay, veteran
trial lawyer defense attorney joining us also from this jurisdiction.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Debate.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
They're always referred to as the elite LAPD Homicide Unit.
What makes them elite? I'm not arguing about it. I
think they are elite, but explain why.
Speaker 12 (21:57):
Well, first of all, they have exceptional train Typically they've
been on the forest for five to ten years because
it requires a great amount of experience to investigate the crimes.
They're also very familiar with the inner workings of the
Superior Court. They know who the das are, and they
know exactly who to call, who to approach to get
charges filed, or to find out where the evidence may
(22:19):
fall short. And if they have to go back out
and beat the bushes, so be it. They'll get the evidence.
But when you put a Greenhorn in there to investigate
some of these high profile media cases, they might not
be as adept at putting the case together as the
more seasoned homicide detectives are.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
You know what, You're so right about that, Philip Debey,
because you can learn a lot, say in college or
grad school, but you have to learn from the strait,
from the school of hard knocks before you. Let's just say,
your first to fly probably won't be your best right.
(22:58):
So you need the experience. You need to know deep
down muscle memory what to do on a scene like this.
In other words, shut the door, don't let anybody else in.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Things like that that.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
As you say, Greenhorn may not know automatically, and they
know they're the bomb. As a matter of fact, in Atlanta,
within APD the homicide unit, they all wear for doors, and.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
I remember going, why do they why do those guys
have off the doors? They're like, because they're homicide.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I'm like, oh, why the hat because they're homicide I'm like, well, okay, whatever.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
It is an elite group. Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
So it goes from the death investigation being handled by
the Robbery Homicide Division of LAPD.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
They get the first lead, Listen.
Speaker 16 (23:48):
Romi immediately implicates a dangerous family member, warning authorities they
should be considered a suspect. Though the Robbery Homicide unit
is assigned to investigate the case, detect agreed the killer
is someone known to the couple, as there is no
sign of forced entry to their home. Michelle and Rob
have three other children, Jack, Nick and Tracy Rob Briiner's
(24:10):
adopted daughter from his first marriage to Penny Marshall.
Speaker 6 (24:14):
There are going to be many family members interviewed. I'm
not going to confirm whether someone's being interviewed at this
time or not. We're going to try and speak to
every family member that we can to get to the
facts of this investigation.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
From Fox eleven, Okay, where does this fit into what
I told you at the get go a bloody hotel
saying Okay, we're talking about Joe Scott Morgan that whoever
committed this double homicide, and I need to circle back
with you on the multiple stab wounds as they relate
(24:48):
to the slashing of both of these throats by the
victim's throats. Okay, because that is significant probatively, it proves
something to me that said, I mean think it through. Okay,
you've got first of all, a woman did not do
this a woman. This is not statistically, overwhelmingly statistically not
(25:10):
a female crime. Plus, Rayner's a big guy. He could
have overpowered a woman. Even though he's seventy eight, he
still could have done that. So it's not a woman.
So we can throw out romy who called police to
start with. If it had been her, she would not
be calling nine to one one. The other daughter lived
a distance away, the adopted daughter that Ryner adopted, Penny Marshall,
(25:35):
his first wife, her daughter.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
It's not a woman.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
So you've got the one son in the business living
out of state I think New Mexico, and then you
have the other son.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
So that's where they start.
Speaker 13 (25:47):
Yeah, what we're hearing right now, Nancy, is that there
are injuries to the neck and they've been categorized as
slash ones. Remember, slashes are different than stabs. So this
is what this means to me, is that you have
to have a blade that is being drug literally across
the surface of the neck, generally on the front side
of the neck or the anterior and Nancy, here's one
(26:10):
more thing in order to facilitate this. It's not like
you see in the movies where somebody just walks up
and slashes somebody's throat. This is an event that has
to take place where they're being stabbed, subdued, perhaps they
go to the ground. They're fighting for their life, and
the one person that is perpetrating this has to get
the upper hand. They apply pressure. This requires pressure in
(26:32):
order to force a knife through the flesh on the neck,
and they drag it across the neck. So what they're
saying is not only was this done once, this is
done twice to two separate subjects. Here, both mister Reiner
and his wife were both injured this way, and this
goes to the dynamic of the environment. We still don't
(26:53):
have an indication as to the proximity of both of
the victims to one another. But you know, this has
been running through my mind ever since the story dropped.
Was the perpetrator in the midst of attacking attacking mister Reiner,
perhaps because he of the two is the largest. You
(27:13):
have to take him out, and then the wife comes in,
sees this happening. She begins to get stabbed, and then
her throat is cut. I don't know, we'll find out more,
but this is going to be an absolute bloody mess
when you think about the injuries, and particularly with the neck,
because you know what we get when we get neck
wounds like this, Nancy, we get that arterial spray that
(27:34):
we're always talking about. If there's still life in the body,
that blood is literally going to pulse out, not just
onto the surrounding surfaces, not just onto the victim, but
also onto the perpetrator as well.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
You say pulse out, it's kind of an arterial bleed.
Is like a water sprinkler yep, with every heartbeat. Also,
I think we're gonna get the scenario by where the
bodies are found. If they're lying there together, side by side,
that sounds like posing. If you can see obviously one
(28:09):
person you suggested, the wife Michelle Singer, writer running toward
Rob to help him or vice versa. I think you'll
be able to tell the scenario. Do you'll be able
to deduce it from where the bodies were laying when
the authorities got there.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
But what we are learning tonight is what, Yeah.
Speaker 13 (28:32):
One more thing. If the individual that perpetrated this nancy
is wearing shoes, okay, you will be able to see
And I've seen this countless numbers of times. It seems
like this. They will leave behind literally bloody shoeprints that
can be tied back to that specific individual, and we're not.
And you have to think of it this way. When
(28:53):
you look at the shoe prints. Did you know that
at scenes, when we take those images, when we take
those lifts, we can actually deduce wear patterns on the shoes,
and that's a specific tie back to a perpetrator. People
always think about DNA, they think about fingerprints and all this,
but blood is an interesting medium in this sense because
it attaches itself. So every time you have these points
(29:15):
of contact all over the place, that's something that you
really have to dig into. If this person fled the scene,
not only are you gonna have blood at the scene,
you're gonna have blood either outside of the residents where
they left on foot, maybe in a vehicle, and then
actually where they wound up where they came to rest
as well.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
At a holiday party, Mike's mental health issues escalate into
a heated argument with his parents, forcing Robin Michelle to
leave abruptly. Hours later, they are found brutally stabbed to
death in their home.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Is there a motive for the double murder of Rob
Reiner and wife Michelle Singer Reiner? Straight back out to
investigative Report Senior investigator reporter us Son Jessica Fann, What
happened at the party the night before.
Speaker 11 (30:07):
Nancy.
Speaker 7 (30:08):
My sources are telling me that there was a pretty
big argument between Rob Michelle and their son Nick at
Conan O'Brien's holiday party. This is a pretty swanky party.
It's an annual party. A lot of big celebrities were
in attendant. We were told that Nick's basically was acting
erratically at the party, kind of going up to people
saying strange things, and during the party he got into
(30:32):
an argument with his parents, and it's unclear exactly what
the argument was about. There is some speculation. We won't
go there right now, but there was definitely a bit
of an altercation during the party that people notice, and
this argument got pretty loud.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
So the whole.
Speaker 7 (30:47):
Disagreement started kind of much earlier in the night from
what we're hearing.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Okay, wait a minute. You said there's speculation about what
the argument was about. What's his speculation.
Speaker 7 (30:58):
Well, so has had a very long and troubled history
with drugs. He's been in and out of rehab seventeen times,
and so there's been a lot of speculation that he
was possibly on some sort of drugs that night. He
didn't look well, he didn't look like he was in
his normal state of consciousness, and people have speculated that
(31:19):
his parents were once again trying to get him back
into a rehab program. And he's been really resistant through
the years to get the help that he's so desperately
clearly needed, and the speculation was that this argument probably
focused on him trying to his parents trying to get
him help again.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
You know, Jessica Fann, it's not speculation that the son
Nick Reiner is an abuser.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
He's a drug addict.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
He himself states that he has been in and out
of rehab.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
I think he says seventeen eighteen times. Listen, how many.
Speaker 10 (31:52):
Times have you been in and out of rehab?
Speaker 2 (31:54):
I'll be honest, it's been like seventeen or eighteen times.
Speaker 6 (31:57):
I saw it when I was like almost about termed fifteen.
Speaker 11 (32:02):
It was there from like nineteen.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
From fifteen to nineteen, and yeah, it's like.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Thirt or four years that is from the pledge and
the turn. So you're right, Jessica Finn to doctor Bethany
Marshall joining us. It's psychoanalyst out of this jurisdiction, doctor Bethany.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
When you're with an addict, it's like.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Someone with First of all, drug addiction or use of
drugs is not a defense under the law. Voluntary use
of drugs or alcohol not a defense under the law.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Just start with that.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
But to you, doctor Bethany, it's like someone with dementia.
You think, why did they say that? Why are they
acting so combative? Why are they so angry?
Speaker 3 (32:51):
There is no reason that drug addicts. Who knows why
they were.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Arguing, Jessica Finn from the US. Some was staying in
their speculation why they were arguing, It doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
It's like why.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Does a domestic abezer meet his wife. There doesn't have
to be a why because she may talk as on enchiladas.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
There is no why. Why ask why? See what I'm saying.
When you have an addict, nothing makes sense.
Speaker 8 (33:19):
I agree with you. The why is not important because
the substance abuser may not even remember what they're arguing about.
What I would say is, let's talk about what substance
the sun was on. If the sun was on mess meth,
I mean, then you have an overkill phenomenon. And Joe
(33:40):
Scott Morgan could probably talk a little bit more about this.
But certain drugs cause certain kinds of aggressive behaviors, like
let's say marijuana. If somebody's on taught, they're not going
to stab somebody, They're just going to be very passive
and lying on the beach and enjoying the sunshine and
ordering a pina colada, right, But if they're on MESS,
(34:02):
there could be a great amount of aggression and hatred
towards the victims. So I would wonder, like, what was
the sun using when he went to the Christmas party? Now?
In terms of the why. Also, sometimes with addicts, parents
really struggle with should we continue to support this person
(34:23):
financially or if we cut off financial support, are they
more likely to get sober? And it's kind of a
tricky question because sometimes when support is cut off, the
user becomes even more angry and aggressive, and that might
have been the case here too.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Sidney Somner, joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter Jessica Fann,
was describing a sayne that The Sun Nick Rhin was
making at kind of O'Brien's yearly Christmas party.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Sidney, Apparently he was going up.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
To all of these stars and going, hey, are you famous,
and basically dogging them. That's what I understand happening at
the party, and it must have been very embarrassing for
Rob and Michelle Reiner.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
They let him tag along, then he makes a legal
term ass out of himself, right.
Speaker 5 (35:10):
And this wasn't a family trip. If it was just
Nick with his parents, that's already an embarrassing situation. Possibly
that your thirty two year old son is tagging along
like he's your twelve year old child. So to be
acting out and to be speaking to people that he
doesn't necessarily know in a flippant way definitely could have
(35:30):
started a disagreement. Hey son, you need to behave yourself,
and that definitely could have set this person on drugs off, especially.
Speaker 12 (35:38):
If it was mess.
Speaker 9 (35:43):
We have our Robbery Homicide Division handling the investigation. They
work throughout the night on this case and we're able
to take into custody Nick Nick Reiner a suspect in
this case. He was subsequently booked for murder and is
being held on four million dollar bail.
Speaker 10 (36:03):
After an interrogation. Nick Reiner, thirty two, is arrested on
suspicion of murdering his parents, seventy eight year old Rob
and sixty eight year old Michelle. As of Monday morning,
Reiner has held on four million dollars bail, but by
the afternoon that bail amount had been revoked. An LAPD
statement indicates they will present their case to the district
Attorney Tuesday, and prosecutors have until the end of the
(36:25):
day Wednesday to file formal charges.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
You're hearing Chief Jim McDonald LAPD from our friends at
Fox eleven to Jessica Finn joining US senior investigative reporter
us Son. Jessica, tell me about the arrest, how it
went down and is it true that an extremely bloody
hotel room has been connected to the sun spoiled brat
(36:53):
Nick Reiner.
Speaker 7 (36:55):
Yeah, so after the incident, said the brutal murder of
his parents place at their home in Brentwood, Nick ran
and checked into a hotel about twenty miles away at
give or take, the hotel ended up being covered in blood.
The hotel room was totally covered in blood. There was
blood in the bathtub, there was blood all over the bathroom,
(37:17):
there was blood on the bedsheets. So this was basically
where he seems to have gone to take to take
a shower, get the bloody clothes off, and then he
left the hotel room. And it's unclear why he left
the hotel room, what his plans were, but he was
eventually apprehended several hours later about about so yeah, several
hours later at right now the University of Southern California's campus.
(37:42):
He was taken into custody after a swat team basically
arrived and threw them on the ground. And yeah, it
was it. It was quite the scene from the time
the police found the bodies, discovered the bodies, to his
hotel room stay, to him leaving the hotel room for
some unknown reason heading towards a Kipten.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Okay hold on just a moment, Philip Debate joining me.
He has defended many many murders, as I have prosecuted
many many murders.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
Isn't it true?
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Debate that if this were to go to trial, that
the judge will instruct the jury, and I questioned about it,
the black and white letter of the law, so lasting
they hear before they go for deliberations, and that will
include a jury charge that the jury can consider acts, actions, before, during,
(38:48):
and after the incident.
Speaker 12 (38:51):
Yes or no, absolutely proven tent. Yeah, we call it.
We call it the eleven oh one B evidence and basic.
It's evidence to prove something other than propensities, something other
than character, such as intent to commit the crime, such.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
As intent to clean off your bloody clothes and leave
them behind because you know you've done something wrong. You know,
just like when you have your PBJ and you spill
jelly down the front of your T shirt. Debay, you
don't then rush out to dinner at a fancy la restaurant?
Speaker 3 (39:25):
Do you change clothes because you know that looks bad? Right?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
This guy changed his clothes, took a shower, as you
just heard Jessica Finn describe from the US Sun the shower.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
The tub was full of blood.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Why because he washed off his parents' blood before he
left that hotel? Why because he knew it was probative.
He knew it proved he had done something horrible translation
consciousness of guilt, So don't tune up with me. Second
(40:04):
verse same was the first that he had a metal
disability because he was voluntarily high on drugs.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
Don't don't even he knew what he did was wrong.
Speaker 12 (40:16):
Well, I have a feeling he has what I call
the trifecta of co occurring disorders, meaning, first of all,
he's got the addiction problem, and I do actually predict
he was high as a kite on something and like amphetamine.
And number two he was in the throes of psychosis,
probably from the untreated schizophrenia. And number three, I think
there was a personality disorder through it in the mix.
(40:38):
So I got the hotel.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Debay, Yes, Toby, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
I'm trying to turn over neelief and not interrupt you
as much as normal, but this is a yes. No.
You know what I'm not even going to ask you,
doctor Bethany Marshall. Did I just hear Debay state the
words bipolar and schizophrenia?
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Did I hear those two words time out of his mouth?
Speaker 8 (41:01):
Let me use a different term. His parents are withdrawing
financial support. It enrages him. That's more likely with the
long term addict. It doesn't matter if they have psychiatric disorders,
personality disorders, whatever else is going on. There comes a
point in every parent's life when they have a drug
addicted child where they say, we're not going to give
(41:24):
you money anymore, We're not going to support this. The
only way to help you get sober is if you
have to support your own life. And that is when
the trouble occurs.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Because doctor Bethany, does this mean that Nick Reiner couldn't
live in daddy's poolhouse anymore? And tear it up, destroy it,
the artwork, the TV, the clothes, the sofa, the bad
all ruined on one of his drug fits, over and over,
(41:58):
and Rhiner would suck it up, clean the whole place up,
get new furniture, and let his son move back in,
only to do it again.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
They created a movie.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Together called Being Charlie that chronicled Nick Reiner spoiled brat
life of drug addiction and mistreating his parents, who put
him back and rehabbing, back and rehabing, gave him a
place to live and paid all his bills.
Speaker 12 (42:26):
Watch this that I'm not going to listen to you
telling me what a drug addict Iane careful on one.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
Of your constituents.
Speaker 6 (42:33):
Now, you wouldn't want to lose the governor's race by
one vote.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
You can either head back to treatment or live on
the streets.
Speaker 8 (42:37):
It's your choice.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
I've got so many clips from Being Charlie that you
were just watching, and it chronicles sadly, sadly, it's it's
very upsetting the parent's life with an addicted adult son,
and the son actually to you, Jessica Hen you were
talking about speculation about what the argument was.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Yeah, the son actually blames the.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Parents for saying, look, you're gonna go to rehab. We're
gonna send you again to one of the best rehabs
in the country for like the eighteenth time.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
This put out the money, and.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
The son doesn't want to go. He goes out live
on the street.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
So Ryner finally says, yeah, okay, fine, live on the
street if you don't want to get well, yeah.
Speaker 7 (43:24):
You're are doing some tough parenting. I mean, like, yeah,
there comes a point with addiction. Maybe from what I
understand that, you know, you eventually got to cut the
kid off, right, and I'm sure they've cut the kid
off clearly throughout the years. He said he was homeless
in Texas, he was homeless in New Jersey, he was
homeless in Mean so he's been on the outs with
his parents financially, and you know, I'm sure this had
(43:47):
to do with another, yet another brutal cutoff for him
and his addiction from their their financial support.
Speaker 14 (43:54):
You know.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Tough decision, right, Rob Shooter.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
You know Nick Reiner now being without bond tonight, tough choice.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Do I want to live on the street or.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
In my dad's multimillionaire poolhouse by the pool where I
can go into his kitchen and eat whatever he's got
in the fridge whenever I feel like it. Because I'm
a spoiled brand, tell me about Nick Ryan. I don't care,
because I don't want to get close to a defen
it and start to.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
You know, identify with him. But go ahead tell me.
Speaker 11 (44:29):
I know, I think the context of it's really important. Nancy.
This is a kid that had every advantage that everybody
would want in life. He had rich, famous, kind, loving parents.
A lot of people might have rich, famous, parents, but
not loving and kind.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
He hit the jackpot.
Speaker 11 (44:45):
He had everything, Nancy, and he threw it all away.
I met with him for coffee in La about four
or five years ago. He was working on a project.
He's a struggling screenwriter. He's not really very talented at this.
Some people are very boohoo to a Nick. I didn't
feel that way. He was rude to the staff in
the store. He was impatient, he was aggressive.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
You just can't drop a bomb like that on me.
Me not cross examine.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
What do you mean he was rude? I very well, yeah,
I know exactly what you're talking about. What happened, rolled.
Speaker 11 (45:21):
His eyes at the staff, was rude at them. They
got his order wrong, and he was not very gracious
about that. He was a really toxic individual and Nancy,
everybody in Hollywood knew it. When he turned up at
Conan O'Brien's party. Can you imagine the reaction, Ah, he's here,
Nick's here, But they can't say the sun And they
(45:45):
didn't say anything though, because his parents are so so
loved and this is this is so interesting to me.
The only thing about Nick that I found interesting, The
only reason I met with him was because of who
his dad was, and the what he didn't realize is
he was trying to run away from the one thing
that made him interesting. He did not want his parents' association,
(46:09):
but he wanted their money, he wanted their connections, he
wanted their power. He wanted it both ways, and he
can't do that.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
So today I keep hearing everyone talk about his addiction
and all he had been through. I don't get it.
Reiner and Michelle did everything they could, and it's like
him literally biting the hand that fed him over and
(46:40):
over and over, and Ryder kept supporting him. Here he
is taking him to cut and O'Brien's party, And don't
you know, O'Brien probably didn't even to say anything to
his wife. They probably when they see these three coming
up the silot because it's Rob Ryan, I'm like, okay.
Speaker 6 (46:57):
Let him in.
Speaker 11 (47:00):
That's exactly what happened, Nancy. Everybody in Hollywood knew this
troubled young man. If this had been anybody else, he
would have had zero access. He would have been iceed
out of Hollywood really, really quickly. It was out of
respect to his parents that anybody paid him any attention.
He had every opportunity, Nancy. He had access to resources,
to go to the best schools, to meet people, to
(47:20):
make connections with people that we would dream to be
in a room with.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
So much more evidence to sift through. Was it Reiner's
blood at that hotel? Was it Singer's blood at that hotel?
What can the hotel employees tell us about the check in?
How was he apprehended? What, if anything did he say
at that time? Is he making statements from behind bars?
(47:50):
Has his sister spoken to him? What is the evidence
at the scene. You know it's Brentwood. You know that
that place is blanketed with surveillance cameras.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
What do we know.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Or is this guy going to continue to trade on
Hollywood fame and walk free if you know or think
you know anything about this case before, during, after the incident.
Speaker 3 (48:15):
We want justice for Reiner and Singer.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Dial eight hundred two two two eight four seven seven
eight hundred two two two eight four seven seven and
tonight we remember an American hero. Commissioner Michael Ryan, Phoenicia
Fire Department, New York, killed in the line of duty
after twenty five years of risking his life, leaving behind
(48:43):
a grieving family. American Hero Commissioner Michael Ryan Nancy Gray signing.
Speaker 14 (48:51):
Off good bye friend.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
Yeah,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
A hotel full of blood discovered after the murders of
a Hollywood legend, the iconic Rob Reiner and his beautiful wife,
Michelle Singer. Reiner both stabbed Dad, multiple stab wounds, both
their throats.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Slit in their own home.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I mean, see, Grace, this is crime Stories. I want
to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Bub Reiner, an accomplished Hollywood director, has it all, a
thriving career, a beautiful family, and a picture perfect life.
But behind the scenes, deep family struggles begin to arise.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
As information is now lee king out, we hear the
original NA one to a fire department.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Listen here one c.
Speaker 5 (01:01):
L SO.
Speaker 6 (01:02):
Approximately three point forty this afternoon, Los Ange Police officers,
along with the Los Angeles City Fire Department, responded to
the two hundred block of Chadbourne Avenue here in the
city of Brentwood. Upon arrival, they determined that there were
two deceased individuals inside of the residents.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Joining us tonight, Jessica Finn, senior investigative reporter US Sun,
whose latest article deals with what led up that night
to the murders of Rob.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Reiner and wife Michelle Singer Reiner.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Tell me about how the fire department ended up being
the first responder.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Let's just start right there.
Speaker 7 (01:40):
Yeah, Nancy, So apparently Rob and Michelle Reiner had a
planned massage appointment that afternoon on during the afternoon on Sunday,
and when they didn't answer the door, the messuse kept
trying to call and knock and ring the bell, and
eventually she decided that she was going to leave, and
so they're orders came across the streets. She lives right
(02:02):
across the road, and decided to check on her parents,
and that's when she discovered that her parents were no
longer with us. And she called nine one one. And
what's interesting about that nine one one call?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Do she immediately sure, Jessica no longer with us? Okay, Jessica,
I am a crime victim of violent crime. I've devoted
my life to seeking the truth in our criminal justice system.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I am a former learning prosecutor.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Who specialized in murders, serial rape, serial chimeless station in
arson of any type. So it's not that they are
no longer with us. They were murdered. And I'm going
to explain tonight, along with this panel of experts, how
police knew immediately when they entered that home.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
This was no suicide. Pack was no suicide murder.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
They knew that Robiner beloved and his wife, the inspiration
for the end of When Harry Met Sally, were murdered. Okay,
you know what, Jessica, I want to go to Doctor
Bethany Marshall joining us tonight renounce psycho analysts from.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
This jurisdiction, author of deal Breaker.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
You can see her now on Peacock and you can
find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Doctor Bethany Marshall.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I've been to many, well countless murder scenes, but it
sticks in my mind my own dad at his funeral,
when I hugged him in the coffin and fixed his hair.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Again.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Sometimes I wish I had never done that, because that's
that memory. I can't imagine what it does to a child.
This is romy they're one of their children who lived
across the street from them, comes over walking in thinking
hey Mom and Dad, Mom, Dad, no answer, nothing.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
The TV's not on, the Christmas music's not playing. What
and then she finds their bodies.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
She will never get that out of her mind, and
she must have not been able to accept it at first,
like why are mom and dad in the floor, and
only to discover.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
They had multiple stab.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Wounds, multiple which Jove Scott's gonna probably tell us in
a few moments that subdued them before their throats were slashed.
I mean, Bethany, rob Reiner was one of the kindest
people I've ever met.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
I happened, he happened to be friendly for no reason.
He didn't have to do that.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
He's an icon when we were living out there during
Dancing with the Stars and was just an amazing person.
You know, one of those people that their warmth and
their generosity just shines out and you can spot them
a mile away. That's him. And someone asked was a
secret to a happy marriage? And he said, Mary, somebody happy.
(05:06):
So I'm guessing his wife Michelle saying temperament. But back
to the daughter stumbling upon her parents, trying to make
sense of it, finding them slaughtered in their own home.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
She will never get past that, Bethany.
Speaker 8 (05:23):
Nancy. I have an unforgettable memory about you your book
signing many years ago. Everybody was leaving and I heard
this blood curdling scream and I thought, who just screamed?
And it was you, and what had happened was your
dad had fainted, and you were so concerned that you screamed.
(05:45):
You love your dad so much and you were so
scared to see him like that. And I will never
forget that, Nancy, And I think about this daughter who
lived across the street from her. That's how close this
family was. Her kids were with grandma and grandpa every
(06:06):
single day. Coming across a scene like that, seeing your
parents stabbed, and all of a sudden reality, the reality
that something has happened to them, matches some sense of
did somebody and my family contribute to this? You know, Nancy,
(06:27):
Trauma is not just what happens to us. It's witnessing
something horrible happening to the people we love the most.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
That's more.
Speaker 8 (06:36):
That's more traumatic than an individual being raped or you know, accosted, assaulted,
something bad happening to them is looking at the people
they loved the most and seeing that something bad happened
to that person. That person's dead, that person's in the
hospital bed, that person has had some horrible accident or disfigurement.
(06:59):
And that's this poor daughter had to go through, not
only her parents, but Grandma and grandpa to her kids
seen that they had suffered in this violent, violent scene.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
You know, Bethany, you just brought up a really good point.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
And guys, we are getting right back to the facts, okay,
what we know as of tonight. But Bethany, you just ignited,
reignited a memory. We used to live right across the
street from my mother's mother, my mama Lucy that I
named my.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Daughter after she upraised us. And it was very, very loving.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
And I think that's a testament to Rhiner and Singer
his wife, because their daughter chose everywhere she could live.
You know, they gave her whatever she wanted, they you know,
out of love that she demanded it, but she chose
to live directly across the street from them like we
did across from my grandmother, my mama.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
That tells me how close the family was and.
Speaker 8 (07:59):
How well that is important, Nancy, because of what you're saying,
the family was close, but also whoever did this to
a husband and wife who were actually quite loving and
close to their family and provided everything for their children
and their grandchildren. And we have to hold that in
(08:21):
our minds as we talk about this double homicide, that
these were very, very very loving parents and grandparents.
Speaker 9 (08:28):
LAPD responded to a residence the residents of Rob and
Michelle Reiner, located in West Los Angeles Division. At that location,
they found two deceased adults, a male and a female.
Through the night, working with the Coroner's office, they were
able to identify them definitively as Rob and Michelle Reiner.
Speaker 10 (08:50):
Unable to get in touch with their parents all day Sunday,
Rummy Reinder decides to make a house visit. Around three
point thirty, Rummy lets herself into their Brentwood home and
discovers a horror scene. Rob and Michelle Reiner stabbed and
their throats slit.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
You were hearing Chief Jim McDonald LAPD. Now earlier you
were hearing from the Deputy Chief, Alan Hamilton.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
This is from our friends at Fox eleven. You know I.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Noticed at the get go, at the very get go,
straight out to Rob Shooter joining us p R Guru
who has worked with every Hollywood celebrity.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I can think of.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Author of a brand new book and it's amazing. It's
on Amazon titled It Started with a Whisper, Rob. Did
you notice at the beginning, at the very beginning, Hamilton,
Deputy Chief Hamilton did not reveal who the deceased were.
(09:50):
I mean, anyone, especially in our business, could figure out
that it's Reiner and his wife because they said an
adult male, adult female aged seventy eight and sixty eight
found in the home of Hollywood legend Rob Reiner. I'm like,
who else can it be? So we knew, but the
(10:11):
LA Law enforcement would not stated.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Did you notice that? I wonder why I did? I did?
Speaker 11 (10:16):
I noticed this. I find my experience and I've been
doing this a long time, Nancy is the police departments
are very very cautious, very very careful. Their pr departments,
their spokespeople never ever want to put out information that
they have to change. So they always air on the
side of being cautious. Why would they not. Now as reporters,
as journalists, we hit the phones, we talked to our sources.
(10:39):
We use our common sense here, and so I think
this was once again an example of a police department
being cautious. Probably a good idea. However, I do think
there probably should be some changes here. As technology has progressed.
You can see things now on social media. We were
watching videos from outside the host the house being live streamed.
(10:59):
Nancy and so the news has really picked up its pace.
It's fast, it's changing every ten to fifteen minutes. The
police department have yet to catch up with that reality.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
You know, Rob, Can I see the video of Ryaner
playing with his dog again, specifically that side shot of
him the first time I met him, very very kind.
I was dashing out at studio City of Dancing with
the Stars on one of the very first nights, actually
trying to find my mom and dad, who had come
(11:32):
and moved down the hall from us to help me
take care of the twins. And I ran by a
guy standing on the very top step going down this big, big,
big stair stair entrance, and it was him, and he
went Nancy, and I turned around and I looked at him,
(11:52):
and at first I thought it was his father, because
they look very similar. And of course when you see
him in all of his professional photos, he's all different
than he looks in that and the video we're showing you.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
But that's how he looked.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
That night when I first saw the photo, I mean,
the video of him with the dog. That's how he
looked that night, and except he had on this really
gorgeous suit and he was you know, in his finery,
and I looked a him and I'm like, that's not
his dad, that's Meathead, that's Rob Ryner. And I was
(12:30):
immediately starstruck because of his brilliance.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
His brilliance, you know, when he first appeared on All in.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
The Family as Meathead, one of his iconic roles, I
don't think people realized just how brilliant he was unless
you watched it and realized his comedic timing was just impeccable.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
And instead of being a bit character in that, he
became a star right along with Jeans Stapleton and Carol
O'Connor and Sally Struthers.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
I mean, he was a star on screen and off.
But that is how he looked when I first met him.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Except in his beautiful, gorgeous suit, not all decked out
like you see celebrities and even men with fake hair,
in fake makeup, in fake everything.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
He was just genuine. He was.
Speaker 11 (13:21):
He was, that's the word, Nancy genuine. I was lucky
enough to have met him several times to talk to him.
I'm always cautious. I bumped into him the first time
I met him in a restaurant in Hollywood, and he
came over to my table and he said, I like
your work. And I was shocked because I work as
a gossip columnist and entertainment reporter. And I was curious.
And he was like, no, you find a way to
(13:42):
tell a story in a naughty but nice way.
Speaker 12 (13:44):
That's what he said.
Speaker 11 (13:45):
It's cheeky, it's funny, it's everything that he was. He
didn't shy away from the truth. He liked the truth.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
He wasn't a friend, so he knew the name of
your naughty but nice That's interesting. I was always stern
rob that he actually knew of all the people, how
could he know my name?
Speaker 3 (14:03):
I was just stunned that.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And he must have had an incredible memory to know
all of that. Okay, I veered a so off course,
let's get out of the weeds and back on track.
That night, immediately straight out to Joseph Scott Morgan's joining
us for my purpose. I like Joe Scott Morgan because
he's a death investigator, right, he has investigated over one
(14:30):
thousand death scenes.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Now, as you know, there are a few ways to die.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
You've got natural causes, you've got suicide, you've got accident,
you have unexplained, and you have homicide. Okay, those are
modes of death. Then there's a multitude of causes of
death strangulation, poisoning, stabbying, gunshot with heart attack, blah blah
blah blah. Not only that, he is Professor Forensics Jacksonville
(14:59):
State University, which houses an incredible criminal procedure program, author
of Blood Beneath My Feet and star of Hitting You
podcast Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan Joe Scott.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Immediately they knew it was a homicide.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
One, no forest entry, the daughter let herself in with
her own key. Obviously, no sex attack to the naked eye.
They knew immediately this was not a suicide pact. I'm
guessing that what the knife wasn't lying there because for instance,
(15:36):
you go on a scene and the person has shot themselves,
where's the gun?
Speaker 3 (15:40):
If the gun's not there, they didn't shoot themselves.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
So there are many ways to determine immediately this is
not a suicide homicide, it's not a suicide. Pack Explain
how they knew and what you would be looking for
the moment you walked into that scene. It's a Hollywood celebrity,
it's an icon, don't screw up the crime scene.
Speaker 13 (16:03):
No you can't, because that's where the tail is going
to be told, Nancy. And one of the things that
would give this way immediately is that I can guarantee
you that this is a bloodbath. There will be copious
amounts of blood that are spread not only on their persons,
on the victims, but also on the floor surrounding their bodies,
(16:23):
or on whatever surface they might have been lying on
at that particular time. There would probably be obvious signs
of struggle, because you know, Nancy, out of all of
these modalities of death, when you begin to think about
sharp forse injuries, these are the most personal of all
of them. You know, you think about somebody being shot, Okay, yeah,
(16:45):
it can be personal, but it's not up close and
personal like a sharp edged weapon is. So there would
have been a struggle, there would have been pain centers firing,
there would have been action and reaction to every time
they were either stab or cut in thisarticular case. And
one more bit of info here, whoever perpetrated this this
(17:06):
horrendous butchery, they are going to have a significant amount
of blood on their person as well. You know, many
times at these scenes where we have cases like this,
you will see an attempt on the part of the
alleged perpetrator to try to clean themselves up. You can
go into like a bathroom and these sorts of things,
(17:28):
and you'll see that there's efforts being put forth, you know,
over a sink, you know, where they're trying to clean
themselves up. Maybe an attempt. I've had cases where people
have actually taken their clothes off and washed them at
a scene, uh, taking showers, all those sorts of things.
Because you know, one of the things that will draw
attention to you, even for somebody that is unfamiliar with
having committed a homicide, one of the things that will
(17:50):
draw attention to you quicker than anything else is that
blood is all over you. People are going to ask questions,
You're going to draw their sight at that particular So
this is certainly what I would frame as an evidence
rich environment. The trick here, though, is securing the scene
and making sure that everything, and I mean everything in
(18:12):
this case is detailed. I'm not saying that mister Hiner
and his wife are special. However, you know and I
know that the glare of the lights on this case
are going to be so intense that you better make
sure that you have everything covered moving forward.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
And I want to clarify when I said this is
a Hollywood celebrities place, don't screw up what I was
really getting at, and you echoed it to Moses Castillo
joining me out of this jurisdiction OC private investigator for
the Dordulian Group, former supervisor detective from the LAPDS at
(18:50):
Moses Castillo Investigations dot Com. What I meant by that
was everybody is going to be a look you low.
Everybody on the police for the fire Department, they're like,
Rob Reiner, let's look inside.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
I mean, it's natural curiosity.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I'm not stating that they're taking pictures of the crime
scene and sending them to Rob Shooter. I'm saying that
out of a natural curiosity, you're.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Like, Wow, this place is beautiful or whatever translation. That
messes up your crime scene.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
It deteriorates, it degenerates, it contaminates your crime scene. The
more people that trump around in there. I hope they
closed it down pronto. Moses, what would be your SOP
standard operating procedure on that as a supervising l E
with the LAPD, Betsy.
Speaker 14 (19:47):
As you heard that now on one call actually was
the radio dispatcher for the officer. The dispatcher is announcing
to the officers the fire department of question of backup.
That tells me that the fire department person, now that
got there, they noticed that, Oh my gosh, we have
two people that were murdered. We don't know if the
suspect is still here or around here. This is a
huge property. It's it's a it's a it's a beautiful home.
(20:09):
I mansioned. So they called for a backup, not knowing
if the suspect is still here. So that's how the
initially came out. So again I agree with Joe Scott.
This is a bloody crime scene. The officers knew right
from the very beginning that they had a homicide on
their hands, and that initiated the response to LAPD's elite
team of Robberty Homicide Division.
Speaker 8 (20:28):
Detectives one CD at.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
The backup.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
So approximately three point forty this afternoon, Los Ange Police officers,
along with the Los Angeles City Fire Department, responded to
the two hundred block of Chadbourne Avenue here in the
city of Brentwood. Upon arrival, they determined that there were
two deceased individuals inside of.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
The residents.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Crime stories with Nancy.
Speaker 15 (21:02):
Grace Throby, their youngest child arrives at the house to
find her parents brutally murdered. As the investigation unfolds, all
signs point to someone close to the family.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
The LAPD seeses control of the scene.
Speaker 6 (21:20):
Listen, the current death investigation that is being conducted by
the Los Angeles Police Department is going to be haled
by the Homicide Special Section of Robbery Homicide Division of
the Los Angeles Police Department.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
That from our friends at Fox eleven, you were hearing
Deputy Chief Alan Hamilton straight out to Phillip Debay, veteran
trial lawyer defense attorney joining us also from this jurisdiction.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Debate.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
They're always referred to as the elite LAPD Homicide Unit.
What makes them elite? I'm not arguing about it. I
think they are elite, but explain why.
Speaker 12 (21:57):
Well, first of all, they have exceptional train Typically they've
been on the forest for five to ten years because
it requires a great amount of experience to investigate the crimes.
They're also very familiar with the inner workings of the
Superior Court. They know who the das are, and they
know exactly who to call, who to approach to get
charges filed, or to find out where the evidence may
(22:19):
fall short. And if they have to go back out
and beat the bushes, so be it. They'll get the evidence.
But when you put a Greenhorn in there to investigate
some of these high profile media cases, they might not
be as adept at putting the case together as the
more seasoned homicide detectives are.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
You know what, You're so right about that, Philip Debey,
because you can learn a lot, say in college or
grad school, but you have to learn from the strait,
from the school of hard knocks before you. Let's just say,
your first to fly probably won't be your best right.
(22:58):
So you need the experience. You need to know deep
down muscle memory what to do on a scene like this.
In other words, shut the door, don't let anybody else in.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Things like that that.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
As you say, Greenhorn may not know automatically, and they
know they're the bomb. As a matter of fact, in Atlanta,
within APD the homicide unit, they all wear for doors, and.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
I remember going, why do they why do those guys
have off the doors? They're like, because they're homicide.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I'm like, oh, why the hat because they're homicide I'm like, well, okay, whatever.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
It is an elite group. Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
So it goes from the death investigation being handled by
the Robbery Homicide Division of LAPD.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
They get the first lead, Listen.
Speaker 16 (23:48):
Romi immediately implicates a dangerous family member, warning authorities they
should be considered a suspect. Though the Robbery Homicide unit
is assigned to investigate the case, detect agreed the killer
is someone known to the couple, as there is no
sign of forced entry to their home. Michelle and Rob
have three other children, Jack, Nick and Tracy Rob Briiner's
(24:10):
adopted daughter from his first marriage to Penny Marshall.
Speaker 6 (24:14):
There are going to be many family members interviewed. I'm
not going to confirm whether someone's being interviewed at this
time or not. We're going to try and speak to
every family member that we can to get to the
facts of this investigation.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
From Fox eleven, Okay, where does this fit into what
I told you at the get go a bloody hotel
saying Okay, we're talking about Joe Scott Morgan that whoever
committed this double homicide, and I need to circle back
with you on the multiple stab wounds as they relate
(24:48):
to the slashing of both of these throats by the
victim's throats. Okay, because that is significant probatively, it proves
something to me that said, I mean think it through. Okay,
you've got first of all, a woman did not do
this a woman. This is not statistically, overwhelmingly statistically not
(25:10):
a female crime. Plus, Rayner's a big guy. He could
have overpowered a woman. Even though he's seventy eight, he
still could have done that. So it's not a woman.
So we can throw out romy who called police to
start with. If it had been her, she would not
be calling nine to one one. The other daughter lived
a distance away, the adopted daughter that Ryner adopted, Penny Marshall,
(25:35):
his first wife, her daughter.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
It's not a woman.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
So you've got the one son in the business living
out of state I think New Mexico, and then you
have the other son.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
So that's where they start.
Speaker 13 (25:47):
Yeah, what we're hearing right now, Nancy, is that there
are injuries to the neck and they've been categorized as
slash ones. Remember, slashes are different than stabs. So this
is what this means to me, is that you have
to have a blade that is being drug literally across
the surface of the neck, generally on the front side
of the neck or the anterior and Nancy, here's one
(26:10):
more thing in order to facilitate this. It's not like
you see in the movies where somebody just walks up
and slashes somebody's throat. This is an event that has
to take place where they're being stabbed, subdued, perhaps they
go to the ground. They're fighting for their life, and
the one person that is perpetrating this has to get
the upper hand. They apply pressure. This requires pressure in
(26:32):
order to force a knife through the flesh on the neck,
and they drag it across the neck. So what they're
saying is not only was this done once, this is
done twice to two separate subjects. Here, both mister Reiner
and his wife were both injured this way, and this
goes to the dynamic of the environment. We still don't
(26:53):
have an indication as to the proximity of both of
the victims to one another. But you know, this has
been running through my mind ever since the story dropped.
Was the perpetrator in the midst of attacking attacking mister Reiner,
perhaps because he of the two is the largest. You
(27:13):
have to take him out, and then the wife comes in,
sees this happening. She begins to get stabbed, and then
her throat is cut. I don't know, we'll find out more,
but this is going to be an absolute bloody mess
when you think about the injuries, and particularly with the neck,
because you know what we get when we get neck
wounds like this, Nancy, we get that arterial spray that
(27:34):
we're always talking about. If there's still life in the body,
that blood is literally going to pulse out, not just
onto the surrounding surfaces, not just onto the victim, but
also onto the perpetrator as well.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
You say pulse out, it's kind of an arterial bleed.
Is like a water sprinkler yep, with every heartbeat. Also,
I think we're gonna get the scenario by where the
bodies are found. If they're lying there together, side by side,
that sounds like posing. If you can see obviously one
(28:09):
person you suggested, the wife Michelle Singer, writer running toward
Rob to help him or vice versa. I think you'll
be able to tell the scenario. Do you'll be able
to deduce it from where the bodies were laying when
the authorities got there.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
But what we are learning tonight is what, Yeah.
Speaker 13 (28:32):
One more thing. If the individual that perpetrated this nancy
is wearing shoes, okay, you will be able to see
And I've seen this countless numbers of times. It seems
like this. They will leave behind literally bloody shoeprints that
can be tied back to that specific individual, and we're not.
And you have to think of it this way. When
(28:53):
you look at the shoe prints. Did you know that
at scenes, when we take those images, when we take
those lifts, we can actually deduce wear patterns on the shoes,
and that's a specific tie back to a perpetrator. People
always think about DNA, they think about fingerprints and all this,
but blood is an interesting medium in this sense because
it attaches itself. So every time you have these points
(29:15):
of contact all over the place, that's something that you
really have to dig into. If this person fled the scene,
not only are you gonna have blood at the scene,
you're gonna have blood either outside of the residents where
they left on foot, maybe in a vehicle, and then
actually where they wound up where they came to rest
as well.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
At a holiday party, Mike's mental health issues escalate into
a heated argument with his parents, forcing Robin Michelle to
leave abruptly. Hours later, they are found brutally stabbed to
death in their home.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Is there a motive for the double murder of Rob
Reiner and wife Michelle Singer Reiner? Straight back out to
investigative Report Senior investigator reporter us Son Jessica Fann, What
happened at the party the night before.
Speaker 11 (30:07):
Nancy.
Speaker 7 (30:08):
My sources are telling me that there was a pretty
big argument between Rob Michelle and their son Nick at
Conan O'Brien's holiday party. This is a pretty swanky party.
It's an annual party. A lot of big celebrities were
in attendant. We were told that Nick's basically was acting
erratically at the party, kind of going up to people
saying strange things, and during the party he got into
(30:32):
an argument with his parents, and it's unclear exactly what
the argument was about. There is some speculation. We won't
go there right now, but there was definitely a bit
of an altercation during the party that people notice, and
this argument got pretty loud.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
So the whole.
Speaker 7 (30:47):
Disagreement started kind of much earlier in the night from
what we're hearing.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Okay, wait a minute. You said there's speculation about what
the argument was about. What's his speculation.
Speaker 7 (30:58):
Well, so has had a very long and troubled history
with drugs. He's been in and out of rehab seventeen times,
and so there's been a lot of speculation that he
was possibly on some sort of drugs that night. He
didn't look well, he didn't look like he was in
his normal state of consciousness, and people have speculated that
(31:19):
his parents were once again trying to get him back
into a rehab program. And he's been really resistant through
the years to get the help that he's so desperately
clearly needed, and the speculation was that this argument probably
focused on him trying to his parents trying to get
him help again.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
You know, Jessica Fann, it's not speculation that the son
Nick Reiner is an abuser.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
He's a drug addict.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
He himself states that he has been in and out
of rehab.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
I think he says seventeen eighteen times. Listen, how many.
Speaker 10 (31:52):
Times have you been in and out of rehab?
Speaker 2 (31:54):
I'll be honest, it's been like seventeen or eighteen times.
Speaker 6 (31:57):
I saw it when I was like almost about termed fifteen.
Speaker 11 (32:02):
It was there from like nineteen.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
From fifteen to nineteen, and yeah, it's like.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Thirt or four years that is from the pledge and
the turn. So you're right, Jessica Finn to doctor Bethany
Marshall joining us. It's psychoanalyst out of this jurisdiction, doctor Bethany.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
When you're with an addict, it's like.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Someone with First of all, drug addiction or use of
drugs is not a defense under the law. Voluntary use
of drugs or alcohol not a defense under the law.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Just start with that.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
But to you, doctor Bethany, it's like someone with dementia.
You think, why did they say that? Why are they
acting so combative? Why are they so angry?
Speaker 3 (32:51):
There is no reason that drug addicts. Who knows why
they were.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Arguing, Jessica Finn from the US. Some was staying in
their speculation why they were arguing, It doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
It's like why.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Does a domestic abezer meet his wife. There doesn't have
to be a why because she may talk as on enchiladas.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
There is no why. Why ask why? See what I'm saying.
When you have an addict, nothing makes sense.
Speaker 8 (33:19):
I agree with you. The why is not important because
the substance abuser may not even remember what they're arguing about.
What I would say is, let's talk about what substance
the sun was on. If the sun was on mess meth,
I mean, then you have an overkill phenomenon. And Joe
(33:40):
Scott Morgan could probably talk a little bit more about this.
But certain drugs cause certain kinds of aggressive behaviors, like
let's say marijuana. If somebody's on taught, they're not going
to stab somebody, They're just going to be very passive
and lying on the beach and enjoying the sunshine and
ordering a pina colada, right, But if they're on MESS,
(34:02):
there could be a great amount of aggression and hatred
towards the victims. So I would wonder, like, what was
the sun using when he went to the Christmas party? Now?
In terms of the why. Also, sometimes with addicts, parents
really struggle with should we continue to support this person
(34:23):
financially or if we cut off financial support, are they
more likely to get sober? And it's kind of a
tricky question because sometimes when support is cut off, the
user becomes even more angry and aggressive, and that might
have been the case here too.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Sidney Somner, joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter Jessica Fann,
was describing a sayne that The Sun Nick Rhin was
making at kind of O'Brien's yearly Christmas party.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
Sidney, Apparently he was going up.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
To all of these stars and going, hey, are you famous,
and basically dogging them. That's what I understand happening at
the party, and it must have been very embarrassing for
Rob and Michelle Reiner.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
They let him tag along, then he makes a legal
term ass out of himself, right.
Speaker 5 (35:10):
And this wasn't a family trip. If it was just
Nick with his parents, that's already an embarrassing situation. Possibly
that your thirty two year old son is tagging along
like he's your twelve year old child. So to be
acting out and to be speaking to people that he
doesn't necessarily know in a flippant way definitely could have
(35:30):
started a disagreement. Hey son, you need to behave yourself,
and that definitely could have set this person on drugs off, especially.
Speaker 12 (35:38):
If it was mess.
Speaker 9 (35:43):
We have our Robbery Homicide Division handling the investigation. They
work throughout the night on this case and we're able
to take into custody Nick Nick Reiner a suspect in
this case. He was subsequently booked for murder and is
being held on four million dollar bail.
Speaker 10 (36:03):
After an interrogation. Nick Reiner, thirty two, is arrested on
suspicion of murdering his parents, seventy eight year old Rob
and sixty eight year old Michelle. As of Monday morning,
Reiner has held on four million dollars bail, but by
the afternoon that bail amount had been revoked. An LAPD
statement indicates they will present their case to the district
Attorney Tuesday, and prosecutors have until the end of the
(36:25):
day Wednesday to file formal charges.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
You're hearing Chief Jim McDonald LAPD from our friends at
Fox eleven to Jessica Finn joining US senior investigative reporter
us Son. Jessica, tell me about the arrest, how it
went down and is it true that an extremely bloody
hotel room has been connected to the sun spoiled brat
(36:53):
Nick Reiner.
Speaker 7 (36:55):
Yeah, so after the incident, said the brutal murder of
his parents place at their home in Brentwood, Nick ran
and checked into a hotel about twenty miles away at
give or take, the hotel ended up being covered in blood.
The hotel room was totally covered in blood. There was
blood in the bathtub, there was blood all over the bathroom,
(37:17):
there was blood on the bedsheets. So this was basically
where he seems to have gone to take to take
a shower, get the bloody clothes off, and then he
left the hotel room. And it's unclear why he left
the hotel room, what his plans were, but he was
eventually apprehended several hours later about about so yeah, several
hours later at right now the University of Southern California's campus.
(37:42):
He was taken into custody after a swat team basically
arrived and threw them on the ground. And yeah, it
was it. It was quite the scene from the time
the police found the bodies, discovered the bodies, to his
hotel room stay, to him leaving the hotel room for
some unknown reason heading towards a Kipten.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Okay hold on just a moment, Philip Debate joining me.
He has defended many many murders, as I have prosecuted
many many murders.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
Isn't it true?
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Debate that if this were to go to trial, that
the judge will instruct the jury, and I questioned about it,
the black and white letter of the law, so lasting
they hear before they go for deliberations, and that will
include a jury charge that the jury can consider acts, actions, before, during,
(38:48):
and after the incident.
Speaker 12 (38:51):
Yes or no, absolutely proven tent. Yeah, we call it.
We call it the eleven oh one B evidence and basic.
It's evidence to prove something other than propensities, something other
than character, such as intent to commit the crime, such.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
As intent to clean off your bloody clothes and leave
them behind because you know you've done something wrong. You know,
just like when you have your PBJ and you spill
jelly down the front of your T shirt. Debay, you
don't then rush out to dinner at a fancy la restaurant?
Speaker 3 (39:25):
Do you change clothes because you know that looks bad? Right?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
This guy changed his clothes, took a shower, as you
just heard Jessica Finn describe from the US Sun the shower.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
The tub was full of blood.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Why because he washed off his parents' blood before he
left that hotel? Why because he knew it was probative.
He knew it proved he had done something horrible translation
consciousness of guilt, So don't tune up with me. Second
(40:04):
verse same was the first that he had a metal
disability because he was voluntarily high on drugs.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
Don't don't even he knew what he did was wrong.
Speaker 12 (40:16):
Well, I have a feeling he has what I call
the trifecta of co occurring disorders, meaning, first of all,
he's got the addiction problem, and I do actually predict
he was high as a kite on something and like amphetamine.
And number two he was in the throes of psychosis,
probably from the untreated schizophrenia. And number three, I think
there was a personality disorder through it in the mix.
(40:38):
So I got the hotel.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Debay, Yes, Toby, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
I'm trying to turn over neelief and not interrupt you
as much as normal, but this is a yes. No.
You know what I'm not even going to ask you,
doctor Bethany Marshall. Did I just hear Debay state the
words bipolar and schizophrenia?
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Did I hear those two words time out of his mouth?
Speaker 8 (41:01):
Let me use a different term. His parents are withdrawing
financial support. It enrages him. That's more likely with the
long term addict. It doesn't matter if they have psychiatric disorders,
personality disorders, whatever else is going on. There comes a
point in every parent's life when they have a drug
addicted child where they say, we're not going to give
(41:24):
you money anymore, We're not going to support this. The
only way to help you get sober is if you
have to support your own life. And that is when
the trouble occurs.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Because doctor Bethany, does this mean that Nick Reiner couldn't
live in daddy's poolhouse anymore? And tear it up, destroy it,
the artwork, the TV, the clothes, the sofa, the bad
all ruined on one of his drug fits, over and over,
(41:58):
and Rhiner would suck it up, clean the whole place up,
get new furniture, and let his son move back in,
only to do it again.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
They created a movie.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Together called Being Charlie that chronicled Nick Reiner spoiled brat
life of drug addiction and mistreating his parents, who put
him back and rehabbing, back and rehabing, gave him a
place to live and paid all his bills.
Speaker 12 (42:26):
Watch this that I'm not going to listen to you
telling me what a drug addict Iane careful on one.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
Of your constituents.
Speaker 6 (42:33):
Now, you wouldn't want to lose the governor's race by
one vote.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
You can either head back to treatment or live on
the streets.
Speaker 8 (42:37):
It's your choice.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
I've got so many clips from Being Charlie that you
were just watching, and it chronicles sadly, sadly, it's it's
very upsetting the parent's life with an addicted adult son,
and the son actually to you, Jessica Hen you were
talking about speculation about what the argument was.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Yeah, the son actually blames the.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Parents for saying, look, you're gonna go to rehab. We're
gonna send you again to one of the best rehabs
in the country for like the eighteenth time.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
This put out the money, and.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
The son doesn't want to go. He goes out live
on the street.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
So Ryner finally says, yeah, okay, fine, live on the
street if you don't want to get well, yeah.
Speaker 7 (43:24):
You're are doing some tough parenting. I mean, like, yeah,
there comes a point with addiction. Maybe from what I
understand that, you know, you eventually got to cut the
kid off, right, and I'm sure they've cut the kid
off clearly throughout the years. He said he was homeless
in Texas, he was homeless in New Jersey, he was
homeless in Mean so he's been on the outs with
his parents financially, and you know, I'm sure this had
(43:47):
to do with another, yet another brutal cutoff for him
and his addiction from their their financial support.
Speaker 14 (43:54):
You know.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Tough decision, right, Rob Shooter.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
You know Nick Reiner now being without bond tonight, tough choice.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Do I want to live on the street or.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
In my dad's multimillionaire poolhouse by the pool where I
can go into his kitchen and eat whatever he's got
in the fridge whenever I feel like it. Because I'm
a spoiled brand, tell me about Nick Ryan. I don't care,
because I don't want to get close to a defen
it and start to.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
You know, identify with him. But go ahead tell me.
Speaker 11 (44:29):
I know, I think the context of it's really important. Nancy.
This is a kid that had every advantage that everybody
would want in life. He had rich, famous, kind, loving parents.
A lot of people might have rich, famous, parents, but
not loving and kind.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
He hit the jackpot.
Speaker 11 (44:45):
He had everything, Nancy, and he threw it all away.
I met with him for coffee in La about four
or five years ago. He was working on a project.
He's a struggling screenwriter. He's not really very talented at this.
Some people are very boohoo to a Nick. I didn't
feel that way. He was rude to the staff in
the store. He was impatient, he was aggressive.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
You just can't drop a bomb like that on me.
Me not cross examine.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
What do you mean he was rude? I very well, yeah,
I know exactly what you're talking about. What happened, rolled.
Speaker 11 (45:21):
His eyes at the staff, was rude at them. They
got his order wrong, and he was not very gracious
about that. He was a really toxic individual and Nancy,
everybody in Hollywood knew it. When he turned up at
Conan O'Brien's party. Can you imagine the reaction, Ah, he's here,
Nick's here, But they can't say the sun And they
(45:45):
didn't say anything though, because his parents are so so
loved and this is this is so interesting to me.
The only thing about Nick that I found interesting, The
only reason I met with him was because of who
his dad was, and the what he didn't realize is
he was trying to run away from the one thing
that made him interesting. He did not want his parents' association,
(46:09):
but he wanted their money, he wanted their connections, he
wanted their power. He wanted it both ways, and he
can't do that.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
So today I keep hearing everyone talk about his addiction
and all he had been through. I don't get it.
Reiner and Michelle did everything they could, and it's like
him literally biting the hand that fed him over and
(46:40):
over and over, and Ryder kept supporting him. Here he
is taking him to cut and O'Brien's party, And don't
you know, O'Brien probably didn't even to say anything to
his wife. They probably when they see these three coming
up the silot because it's Rob Ryan, I'm like, okay.
Speaker 6 (46:57):
Let him in.
Speaker 11 (47:00):
That's exactly what happened, Nancy. Everybody in Hollywood knew this
troubled young man. If this had been anybody else, he
would have had zero access. He would have been iceed
out of Hollywood really, really quickly. It was out of
respect to his parents that anybody paid him any attention.
He had every opportunity, Nancy. He had access to resources,
to go to the best schools, to meet people, to
(47:20):
make connections with people that we would dream to be
in a room with.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
So much more evidence to sift through. Was it Reiner's
blood at that hotel? Was it Singer's blood at that hotel?
What can the hotel employees tell us about the check in?
How was he apprehended? What, if anything did he say
at that time? Is he making statements from behind bars?
(47:50):
Has his sister spoken to him? What is the evidence
at the scene. You know it's Brentwood. You know that
that place is blanketed with surveillance cameras.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
What do we know.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Or is this guy going to continue to trade on
Hollywood fame and walk free if you know or think
you know anything about this case before, during, after the incident.
Speaker 3 (48:15):
We want justice for Reiner and Singer.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Dial eight hundred two two two eight four seven seven
eight hundred two two two eight four seven seven and
tonight we remember an American hero. Commissioner Michael Ryan, Phoenicia
Fire Department, New York, killed in the line of duty
after twenty five years of risking his life, leaving behind
(48:43):
a grieving family. American Hero Commissioner Michael Ryan Nancy Gray signing.
Speaker 14 (48:51):
Off good bye friend.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
Yeah,
Host
Nancy Grace
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Betrayal: Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a brand new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack. And make sure to check out Seasons 1-4 of Betrayal, along with Betrayal Weekly Season 1.