July 6, 2025 • 50 mins
Recording artist R. Kelly is serving a 30-year sentence for his racketeering and sex trafficking conviction. In the last days, the Supreme Court has declined to hear an appeal on claims that prosecutors “stretched” the law in the convictions against him. The justices denied an appeal last month.
Now, Kelly wants to be released to home detention, claiming that federal authorities are plotting to kill Kelly in prison. A defense motion claims Kelly's former cellmate conspired with prison officials to steal mail between him and his attorneys and turn it over to prosecutors before his trial. Kelly's attorneys also claimed prison officials recruited a fellow prison inmate to kill Kelly to keep him from exposing the plot.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Lisa Van Allen - Victim, testified against R Kelly
- Brad M. Micklin, Esq - Lead Attorney and Managing Member, The Micklin Law Group, LLC (Nutley, NJ)
- Dr. Bethany Marshall- psychoanalyst
- Vincent Hill - Private Investigator, Author of "Playbook to a Murder"
- Robyn Walensky - Crime Stories Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. R Kelly. Okay, I guess
he's jealous. Shawn comes Diddy is getting all the attention
in the last days. Another wrinkle, let me say a
bizarre wrinkle in the R. Kelly sex trafficking prosecution. R Kelly,
(00:26):
a renowned R and B singer, multi millionaire, just can't
keep his yap shut. Kenny. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
The I Believe I Can fly hit Maker is behind bars. Yes,
he's in the can serving a thirty one year sentence
(00:47):
for child sex abuse crimes. You heard me right, child
sex abuse crimes. He hears about Seawan Combe's aka Diddy
getting all the attention, and now he has demanded that
he be set free and wants quote house arrest, citing
(01:09):
fears for his safety and claims there is a murder
plot orchestrated against him by fellow inmates. Oh, I hate
when that happens. When you get convicted on multiple counts
of child sex abuse and sex trafficking and you get
(01:31):
thrown behind bars and the other inmates don't like you. Wow,
I wonder why, hmmm, what do we know? With me
right now is a very special guest, Lisa Van Allen.
I met in just her poise and her emotion. Her
(01:54):
recounting her time with R. Kelly, the music superstar, nearly
broke my heart. Lisa, a father and mother of a girl,
say their daughter was ninety pounds and looked like a
prisoner after she returned from the singer's tour bus and
(02:16):
screamed quote like a mad woman at the mention of R.
Kelly's name. Now, these quote rumors have been swirling for years,
and I recall when R Kelly was prosecuted. I mean
it took a darn videotape being sent to the prosecutor's office.
(02:37):
I guess the word of the victims wasn't enough, so
they go forward with a video of R. Kelly not
only having sex with a minor that's called tuttory rape
according to the prosecution, but urinating on her and in
her mouth. Okay, the jury acquitted him, claiming that they
didn't know if the girl was underage. Okay, Lisa Allan,
(03:01):
could you please, as best as you can tell us
how you met R. Kelly and what happened after that.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I met him in nineteen ninety eight at the Home
Alone video shoot. I actually went with a friend of
mine's girlfriend. She was an extra and I went with
her and I was an extra as well, and he
actually had his cousin come up to me and told
me that he wanted to meet me. I wasn't sure
(03:33):
who he was when he told me. He said, Rob
wants to meet you. And I was asking who Rob was,
and he said R Kelly. So I went over to him.
I was, you know, surprised because I was only seventeen
years old, so I didn't expect to meet him. There
were tons of grown women there, strippers and other you
know things like that that he could have been interested
in meeting. But he picked out the youngest girl in
(03:56):
the crowd and I went to met him and he
asked me how old I was, and I thought I
was seventeen. His first question, well, his second question was
will your mother let you come to Chicago?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Lisa hold on. For those of you just joining me,
an alleged victim of the superstar R Kelly, the creator
of I Believe I Can Fly. Hold on just a moment,
Doctor Bethany Marshall, let me ask Lisa one more question. Lisa,
was this before or after he was tried on that
(04:28):
video with the fourteen year old girl before? So, Doctor
Bethany Marshall, the first thing he did, and Lisa Van
Allen has been consistent every time she's told her story.
First thing he did. He seeks her out. There's all
these strippers, grown women everywhere. He comes over to a
teen girl and says, how old are you? What does
(04:49):
that tell you, Doctor Bethany?
Speaker 3 (04:51):
It tells me that this is his offending pattern. He
wants underage girls, minors, and he wants girls who are
pliable over whom he can have control. And you know
R Kelly is setting up a sex cult, so what
is he going to do. He's going to go towards
(05:11):
the youngest, the most vulnerable members of any group, and
he's going to recruit them. He's on a recruiting mission.
That's what it tells me.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Back to Lisa Van Allen, she claims that R. Kelly
took advantage of her sexually as a young girl, and
I believe her. I believe her standing on her own
because I've met her. We're not just some disembodied voices
over the airwaves. I have met Lisa Van Allen I
(05:43):
have looked her in the eye. I have spoken to
her on and off camera. I have evaluated her credibility,
her demeanor, her the degree of detail. I've compared her
current statements to many many previous statements for inconsistencies anderation.
And I can tell you, as a veteran felony prosecutor,
(06:06):
if I were a better I would put money that
Lisa Van Allen is telling the truth, and I believe
a jury would agree with me.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Listen, when we first started having sense, Rob was behind
the camera and I started popping the tapes in to
see what was on them. But I came across the
one with me him and the fourteen year.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
Old bootleg copies of the tape start showing up around
the country.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
This is the one that makes it almost impossible for
people to pretend that they did not know that this
person had a thing for little girls.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
So Lisa Van Allen, R. Kelly comes up to you,
amongst all the strippers and the women ground women, he
picks out a skinny little girl, and then what happens
says how old are you? Then what happens and when
your mama lets you come to my town?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Right? And then I mean, of course if he knows
I'm not going to ask my mother at the video
shoot and there's no you wouldn't have cell phones, you know,
back then like now. So I'm assuming he asked that
question just to see if I would agree to come
pretty much, you know what I mean? So yeah, so after.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
That, then, so what did what did you say?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
But yeah, I said yes, my mother would allow me
to come, but of course I didn't ask her, you
get what I mean?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
And that started it. Listen.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
R Kelly is arrested on the Chicago charges. The charges
they filed against him were not statutory rape charges. They
filed child pornography charges. It's the same penalties, but is
easier to prove if you cannot in it down to
a specific date. There was no date on the tape.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
What about the child or charge?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
How right?
Speaker 5 (07:54):
He ultimately has to face the charges in a Chicago courtroom.
He pleads not guilty in post his bail, and he's released.
Speaker 6 (08:08):
After R Kelly please not guilty, he goes straight to
a Southside church. He goes straight to an event where
he is admired by young children. Here, he is being
prosecuted for allegedly having sex with an underage girl and
ministers civil rights leaders in the city Chicago wanted to
(08:30):
play up the side of him that did the I
believe I can fuck, and not the side of him
with the ranting lyrics that kind of went along with
possibly having sex for.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
The underage girl you are hearing from Surviving R Kelly
on Lifetime. As we all know, the musical superstar R
Kelly was arrested on child porn charges for making that
grainy video with a fourteen year old girl in a
sex act. And in the video you can clearly see
a mole on the back of R. Kelly's back, which
(09:05):
is the mole on his back, But the girl would
refuse to admit that it was her, so the state
ran up against rock and a hard spot because they
couldn't definitely prove it was her. But Lisa Van Allen
is with me who lived with R Kelly, who I
believe is one of his victims. Lisa Van Allen, do
(09:27):
you believe the girl was fourteen years old in that
porn tape?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I know she was fourteen because we actually had a,
you know, a threesome with her and at the time
he told me she was sixteen years old. I later
found out that she was two years younger than that.
So because we were headed to one of his video shoots.
On the way there, she told me that she was
(09:53):
going to be getting a PP Cruiser for her sixteenth birthday.
By me doing the math, you know how long ago
the first encounter was. It was two years prior to that.
So if you're just about to turn sixteen in a
few weeks, and that would have made you fourteen when
we had the sexual encounter and the tape that was
on trial, she would exactly the same, had the same hairstyle,
(10:15):
the same, the same just everything, everything was exactly the same,
the same, It was even in the same room.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Well, I mean, Lisa, you had a threesome weather right,
But I think you've gotten to know her fairly well,
and you saw her, You saw her more of her
than any of us have seen. And I'm not judging.
I don't care who does what with who unless it
is non consensual or there's a minor involved, exactly, And
(10:43):
I think everyone is so in awe, not me, but
other people of r. Kelly that he has literally gotten
away with felonies for decades. I mean Lisa, his marriage
to Aleiah back in this all the time of my head.
In nineteen ninety six, she was fifteen, and he coerced
(11:06):
her to lie on the marriage certificate, to marry her exactly,
and then when it came out that the certificate was
a fraud, her parents had a fit, I'm sure, and
they got the thing annulled and she would never speak
if R Kelly is my understanding, Lisa, well.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I know he told me that they had to think
called pins and eyeballs, So no matter if it was
pins and her eyeballs or he, they wouldn't speak about it.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
So I want to go back to you, Lisa van
Allen with me who was lured into Ourchlly's web. So
he comes up to you on this video shoot. He
picks you out of all these grown women. You're just
a skinny little teen girl, ask if you can come
to his town, which I assume with Chicago. Did you go?
Speaker 7 (11:55):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (11:55):
I did.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I didn't go immediately. I waited about a month to
call him. The main reason was because I didn't know
what to talk to him about. I mean that might
sound a little praying to a grown people, but as
a young girl I didn't know what to talk to
a grown man yet alone R Kelly on the phone
about I didn't think he was going to rush me
(12:16):
to Chicago. I thought we were going to have a
phone conversation. So I waited a while to call him,
and then once I did call him, it was no
conversation other than him asking when can you get to Chicago?
Speaker 1 (12:25):
And then what happened?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
So I told him whenever, you know, he could get
me there, and he put me on the phone with
June Brown, which is his assistant, and June talked to
me through everything of how to get there. He didn't
book it for me, of course, because I was seventeen
at the time, so they sent me the money and
(12:47):
they actually told me to get my own ticket and
where to go and what hotel to go to once
I got there and everything, and then they brought me
to him once I got to Chicago.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
So they are killing his people told you how to
book your own ticket at seventeen, I would not have
known how to book my own ticket, and you did
and use the money.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
I didn't. No, I didn't even have an ID, so
I had to go and tuck me in to get
an ID, you know, telling me what's all I needed
to do to fly.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
To Nicole de Board joining me. Former prosecutor now criminal
defense lawyer, Nicole Aboard, You've prosecuted a lot of felony cases,
and I think this is diabolical. And I'll tell you why,
because they knew how to erase all the evidence of
their involvement. It's not him putting it on his credit
(13:36):
card or his recording studio. She did it so in
years to come they could go, oh, she just showed up.
We didn't even know she was coming.
Speaker 5 (13:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (13:47):
You know, it is heartbreaking to hear this account of
what happened. And I have to agree that what adds
to the credibility of this story here are the details,
the many many details about when and how and what
was said and what the instructions were. So I tend
to agree that this is the case that really ought
to hold up if the charges would just be accepted.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
You know, Alexis esschut writer online dot Com investigative reporter.
What a mind? Let me just think of the right
word for how to mess with your mind? Because one
moment he's having sex with these girls, and the next
moment people are cheering for him and he's singing gospel
(14:30):
music Nancy.
Speaker 9 (14:32):
The thing is so many people have come forward for
so many years with stories about R. Kelly, and the
authorities never believed them. Reporters. I have spoken with people
who said that they knew victims that we're living with R.
Kelly for years. We've written stories. The authorities have done
nothing because he is so famous and so rich and
(14:54):
so powerful, and just no one believed these girls.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
This is one of the.
Speaker 9 (14:58):
Hardest stories to cover a reporter. When you write things,
and you write them and no one believes it and
nothing happens. The police do nothing. It's so frustrating.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace, the Grammy winning singer and
pop icon, got thirty plus years behind bars for sex
abusing women and underage girls and boys, and doing it
over the span of decades. I remember when he was
(15:36):
sentenced by US District Judge and Donnelley. This is after
Donnelly heard multiple statements from seven victims during hours and
hours in court of victim statements in Brooklyn Federal Court.
And there was another witness, Javonte Cunningham. I will never
forget what was said. Quote. With every free edition of
(16:01):
a new victim, you grew in wickedness and the witness
steered directly at him. She said, and I quote, you
used your fame and power to groom and coach underage
boys and girls for your own sex gratification. Another victim stated,
(16:25):
in open court, quote you made me do things that
broke my spirit. I literally wished I would die because
of how low you made me feel. She then turned
to R. Kelly in court and said do you remember that?
And R Kelly wouldn't even look up at her. R Kelly,
(16:50):
Robert Sylvester Kelly convicted on nine charges racketeering, violating the
Man Act that bar interstate transportation of women and girls
for quote immoral purposes. Yeah, the judge threw the book
at him. But now he says, people behind bars don't
(17:12):
like me. I need house arrest. That chance, bro that chance.
Let's just revisit.
Speaker 10 (17:19):
The Cook County State's Attorney's office, as we understand it
now from two sources, has indicted R.
Speaker 11 (17:25):
Kelly.
Speaker 10 (17:25):
As you know, R Kelly back in two thousand and
eight went to trial. He went to trial on fourteen
counts of child pornography. He was acquitted in that trial.
And in that trial there was also physical evidence, including
a tape, a videotape that prosecutors at the time says
was a girl that was thirteen years or fourteen years
old and r Kelly involved in sexual acts that had been.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Recorded by r Kelly.
Speaker 10 (17:48):
But he was acquitted on those charges because the jury
said they simply could not positively, beyond a reasonable doubt,
end up being able to identify r Kelly or the girl,
even though they brought a lot of witnesses to say otherwise.
There were witnesses in that particular case that said opposite things,
and so the jury just was not able to go forward.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
With a conviction.
Speaker 10 (18:08):
R Kelly has always maintained that he is innocent of
all the charges and accusations that have been coming at him.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
You hear from our friend, sirrs Seidner. R Kelly behind bars,
indeded and booked on ten counts of aggravated criminal sex abuse.
Straight out to Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Robin
Olenski Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, author of Beautiful Life,
(18:34):
the CSI behind the Casey Anthony trial on Amazon, Robin,
what happened?
Speaker 12 (18:39):
Well, here's the story. Nancy r Kelly has been charged
with the ten counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse. These
are allegations that stem from many years from nineteen ninety
eight to twenty ten, involving four females, three who were
at the time teenage.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Teenage girls. When you say eighteen girls, Robin Olinsky, are
you talking thirteen or nineteen?
Speaker 12 (19:06):
Oh, we're talking thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, young, very young who
idolized this man.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Guys we're talking about are Kelly Robert Sylvester Kelly, aged
fifty two, said to spend another night in jail. Robin
Olinsky Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, tell me about
the arrest and the booking.
Speaker 12 (19:24):
Well, here's the situation. He actually R. Kelly turned himself
in in Chicago to the police department, and there were
many many reporters, both in mainstream news and entertainment reporters
all there shouting questions at him, did you do it?
Are you guilty? And he said nothing. He turned himself
(19:45):
into the police and he was booked. And then the
next day the judge he had a bond hearing, and
he was being held on a million dollar bond, has
to put up one hundred thousand cash to get out,
and so far, Nancy, he has come up with the money.
Here's this guy who allegedly has all this money and
his worst millions and billions of dollars, and he can't
(20:07):
come up with one hundred thousand dollars to get out.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Prosecutors allege one of the women was an underage girl
who Kelly solicited when he was on trial for child
porn back in two thousand and eight. Let me introduce
my all star panel, Robin Wolinsky, Crime online dot Com
investigative reporter Brad Micklan, New Jersey lawyer, doctor Bethany Marshall,
(20:31):
renowned California psychoanalyst Vincent Hill, cop turned PI author of
playbook to a murder on Amazon. Brad Micklin, you're the
high profile defense lawyer. According to sources, one of the
women was an underage girl Kelly solicited file he's on
(20:52):
trial for child porn back in two thousand and eight.
Remember that, Brad Micklin, what if your client jumped up
and he's on video with a fourteen year old girl
having sex and then urinates iner mouth. I mean, I
didn't want to say that, but that's the truth. That's
what happened, Brad mclin. And during that during that trial,
he sailicit's another underage girl.
Speaker 8 (21:14):
Well, if it's true, Nancy, it's obviously repulsive. But with
regard to the current charges facing him, there are many
issues that they need to get passed first. There are
going to be statue limitation issues because these a lot
of these actions were back in the late nineties. You
got this documentary out that's going to came to Jewelry Pool,
and yet Avignatti with his hands into the evidence before
(21:36):
the prosecutors even got to it. So I think long
before we start to judge him on whether or not
he did this, we have to see whether there's a
basis for them to move forward on it.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Okay, first of all, the only thing that I heard
that makes carries any water with me is the Avinati issue.
You know what, Avianati has seemed to land in the
middle of every every controversy he's involved with, the Stormy
Daniels issue, then he somehow injected himself in the me
(22:04):
too campaign, and now this. I have a problem with
him having states evidence first as well. But that aside,
this is a very interesting fact. Brad mclin and I
did not know this until I started very carefully researching
the law, the law has changed in multiple jurisdictions where
(22:26):
the statute of limitations no longer applies in cases like this,
and it's retroactive, which I was very surprised about, which
means that if you commit a crime, say you committed
the crime in two thousand, the two thousand law doesn't
apply anymore. You get the twenty nineteen law. That's very rare,
(22:49):
very rare under our constitution, but it's happened. So statute
of limitations is not going to help him. To doctor
Bethany Marshall, renown California psychoanalyst Dodger Bethany, I mean the
nerve while he's on trial for child porn, got a jury,
the works. According to these prosecutors, he slit it's another
(23:12):
little girl, Nancy.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
He's compulsive. I mean, he is a sex predator, predators
pre date. The attorney who was giving the press her
kept talking about the fact that there was more than
five years age difference between him and his victims. She
said it again and again and again. And what that
tells me is she's trying to say he's not your
(23:35):
average run of the mill sex predator. He is a pedophile.
The criteria for pedophilia is that there is more than
five years age difference between the offender and the victim,
and that the victim is precubescent. Now, the youngest one
was thirteen years old, so she was on the cusp.
(23:56):
But as you just mentioned that, there was that other
case when he was brought up charges of child pornography.
So this guy just can't stop himself. His whole life
is organized around the compulsion. And I think fancy that
this is why he doesn't have any money. How can
you make money when all you want to do is
have sex with little kids? It ruins your entire life.
(24:17):
This is all he can do. He's a talented musician,
but I bet most of his waking hours are thinking
about obtaining access to children and having sex with him.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Well. Also, if reports are true, he is keeping up
at least six different properties in the Atlanta area alone,
plus whatever he's got going on in Chicago, housing all
of these women that are in his harem. And that
is a euphemistic way to put it, you know, let
me just put it like this. I've told many a
(24:47):
jury and Brad Macklin is going to shudder during this.
The story at the end of a closing argument about
mister Scorpion and mister Turtle. Mister Scorpion meets mister Turtle
at the side of the river and says, please just
carry me across, and Turtle says, oh no, mister Scorpion,
because you will surely bite me and we will both
(25:07):
go to the bottom of the river and I will die.
But Scorpion says, I promise, Why would I kill myself?
Subby grudgingly, Turtle takes him across the river. Halfway across,
Turtle feels a pain in his neck and he says,
mister Scorpion, you bit me now we will both die,
and Scorpion says, I can't help it. It's just my nature.
Speaker 13 (25:29):
Earlier today, Robert Kelly was indicted before a Cook County
grand jury on ten counts of aggravated criminals sexual abuse
involving four victims. The first victim initials HW, was involved
in incidents which occurred between May twenty six to nineteen
ninety eight and May twenty fifth, nineteen ninety nine. A
(25:50):
grand jury returned an indictment on four counts of aggravated
criminals sexual abuse based on the victim being under the
age of seventeen and Robert Kelly being more more than
five years older than the victim. The second victim, initials
r L, was involved in an incident which occurred between
September twenty sixth nineteen ninety eight and September twenty fifth,
(26:11):
two thousand and one. A grand jury returned an indictment
on two counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse based on
the victims being under the age of seventeen and Robert
Kelly being more than five years older than that victim.
The third victim, INITIALS LC, was involved in an incident
which occurred February eighteenth, two thousand and three. A grand
(26:33):
jury returned an indictment on one count of aggravated criminal
sexual abuse based on the transmission of seamen by Robert
Kelly upon any part of the body of the victim
for the purpose of sexual gratification during the course of
an underlying felony of attempt criminal sexual assault. The fourth victim,
initials JP, was involved in incidents which occurred between May one,
(26:56):
two thousand and nine and January thirty first, two thy ten.
A grand jury returned an indictment on the three counts
three counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse based on the
victim being under the age of seventeen and Robert Kelly
being more than five years older than the victim. Aggravated
criminal sexual abuse is a Class two felony with the
(27:18):
sentencing range of three to seven years for count. It
is also probationable. We anticipate that mister Kelly will appear
in bond court tomorrow afternoon.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Thank you. You are hearing the prosecutor outline all of
the charges against R and B star are Kelly, Robert
Sylvester Kelly. And right now he's sitting in the can.
There's just no nice way to put it. He's behind
bars trying to drum up the money to make bond.
Joining me Robbie Olinsky, Vincent Hill, doctor Bethany Marshall, and
(27:50):
Brad Micklin to Vincent Hill turned PI, author of playbook
to a Murder on Amazon. You know, they go all
the way back to nineteen ninety eight for these claims,
which show me the statute of limitation is not an
effect based on new legislation. A lot of defense attorneys,
(28:10):
probably including Brad McK limb, but certainly R. Kelly's lawyer
is going to argue to a jury that these claims
are so old, why are they just coming forward? Now?
Speaker 9 (28:20):
You know what jr.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Ar might fall for that, But there are other counts
as well. Vincent, what did they have to do to
get this information, to get the evidence to show the case.
Speaker 11 (28:28):
Well, Manti, I'm glad they did update the statute of
limitations for these gruesome crimes. I mean, this reminds me
of a Monica Lewinsky. You heard you got semen on dresses,
you got semen on shirt, You've got semen on blouses.
So the physical evidence is there. Thankfully, if we can
get past these statue of limitations, we can actually get
a conviction. And it's no wonder he's still sitting in
jail and he can't come up with one hundred grand.
(28:49):
He's been paying off women for years before closed on
his house in twenty twelve because he had to go
and pay all these women in civil cases. So it's
no wonder he's sitting in jail and that's where he belongs.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Quite frank two, Doctor Bethany Marshall, renownced California psychoanalyst. Doctor Bethany,
you would think after the first jury trial where he's
actually brought up on felony charges of creating pornography with
a girl fourteen years old. You would think that that
would stop him, but it didn't.
Speaker 14 (29:20):
According to prosecutors, offenders offend again and again and again,
and they organize their entire lives around the compulsion to offend,
like see a lesser compulsion.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Let's take for example, alcoholism. An alcoholic might get a
job as a bartender. A pedophile might get a job
as a priest, or as a school teacher. A sex
offender pedophile might become a musician so he can lure
little girls, and he will remain undeterred even when he
(29:55):
has to pay out settlements. This is what we saw
with Michael Jackson. Remember settlement after settlement with little boys.
But the crimes went on and on. And that's because
there's also something called institutional sociopathy, where one socip path
bands with another and then bands with another.
Speaker 9 (30:12):
These people like r.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Kelly, and we saw this with Harvey Weinstein, they surround
themselves with people who accommodate to their crimes, so they
are aided and embedded all over the place. And that's
why the offending pattern never stopped.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
To New Jersey lawyer High profile. Defense attorney Brad mclin
joining us, Brad macklin, what do you make of the
fact that some of the charges date back to nineteen
ninety eight and how would you attack that a trial?
Speaker 8 (30:40):
Well, and that's going to be a problem. I mean,
he's not at this time. Several victims in several incidents,
So you first attacked the statute limitations because in Illinois
the limitations depend on whether or not there's corroboration, the
age of defender and the relationship that R. Kelly may
have had with that meaning was he in a position
of the thought or where they personally claimed.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
So as a defense.
Speaker 8 (31:02):
Attorney, you're going to attack each specific event, each specific
victim and date to try to knock out some of
the claims. It's not going to be a slam dunk
on a statute limitations issue, but at least you can
get rid of some of the offenses and some of
the victims and reduce what you're facing a trial.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Guys, when Brad and I are talking about statute of limitations,
what that means is under our jurisprudence, under our constitution,
after a certain period of time years, cases can no
longer be prosecuted. They're deemed too old. The evidence is
no longer as valid as it was before. That's the rationale.
(31:41):
So you have a limit on how many years pass
until you can no longer try the case. This is
what we know. Singer R Kelly's prosecutors alleging he's solicited
underage girls for sex even while he was on trial
for child porn. While he was on trial back in
two thousand and eight, according to prosecutors, Kelly still found
(32:02):
time to talk to fans, to sign autographs, to take photos,
and meet an underage girl he invited to his home, and,
according to them, solicited for sex. Other accusers include a
little girl who met Kelly at her sixteenth birthday party,
and a hairdresser who expected to braid the singers here,
only to find out he wanted a sex act instead.
(32:25):
He goes on and on and on, but now he's
really looking at a heap of trouble. Now, this is
the person you don't want to have a fender bender with.
And see Gloria allready get out of the car in
front of you. Oh no, you do not listen to this.
Speaker 15 (32:40):
We have an appointment today with the New York City
Police Department, who have as asked to meet with Faith
in furtherance of their investigation into potential victims of R.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Kelly.
Speaker 15 (32:50):
We will offer our full and complete cooperation in their investigation.
Prosecutors in Chicago and Atlanta are also seeking information from
potent victims, and we plan to offer them our cooperation
as well. Mister Kelly, you may soon join the ranks
of Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Just as they have.
Speaker 15 (33:11):
Been and are being held accountable for their actions, you
also must be accountable.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
To Robin Olensky, author of Beautiful Life and Crime Online
dot com investigative reporter, where you can find this and
every other breaking news item in justice and criminal law.
Robin Lensky, how did Gloria already get involved?
Speaker 12 (33:34):
Well, Gloria Allread is now representing one of the underage
girls who has claims against R.
Speaker 7 (33:44):
Kelly.
Speaker 12 (33:44):
You know what, Nancy, When I've been researching this case
and covering it over time, what comes to my mind
though about this? Remember what your grandmother used to say
to you, Where there's smoke, there's fire. Now, all of
these are allegations, but you start building your ca and
it goes back to nineteen ninety eight, and then you
know there's stuff prior to that, and then it goes
(34:05):
on and on and on.
Speaker 15 (34:06):
In response to the allegations of his many alleged victims
as contained in the recent Lifetime documentary, Kelly's attorney has
appeared to threaten a lawsuit against Lifetime, and, according to
news reports, someone associated with Kelly's team launched a Facebook
page called quote Surviving Lies to allegedly discredit his accusers.
(34:29):
Reports indicated that the page was quote swiftly taken down
for violating Facebook's policy on bullying or sharing others private
contact information. News reports also claim that mister Kelly is
threatening to sue everyone involved in the documentary. Mister Kelly's attorney,
Stephen Greenberg, said the singer will quote hopefully sue Lifetime
(34:53):
in his first interview with ABC News since the release
of Lifetime Surviving R. Kelly, I say to mister Kelly
and his attorney, be careful what you hope for. All
of these attempts to intimidate and threaten our clients and
others will not work. Mister Kelly, Your disgusting tactics will
not prevent women who alleged they were victimized from telling
(35:13):
their truth.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
That is at turning Gloria Allred and I've got to
tell you something. I got a soft spot for her,
and this is why I not always heard of her.
And I worked with her daughterly sublime at Court TV
for many many years. Fine fine woman, and long story short.
When I was out covering the Scott Peterson trial and
I was there in Medwood City for months and months
(35:35):
and months, I would get to the courthouse, okay, I'd
get there around six o'clock in the morning to start
doing morning TV, stay for the whole day do Court TV,
and stay to do Larry King, which ended at that
time at ten o'clock at night. When I would finally
leave the courthouse, I would notice that Gloria Allred was
(35:56):
there when I got there at six. When I left
at night, I remember her standing there in her fancy
Saint John's suit, working two cell phones, standing at a
stop sign, working We're king. I'm telling you, she's got
a work ethic like nobody else, Gloria Allred. And when
she gets ahold of your case, it's like a pit
bull's got a hold of you. You got to get pliers,
(36:18):
you got to get a utensil to get her jaw
off your case. Joining me Brad Micklin, doctor Bethany Marshall,
Vincent Hill, and Robin Wolenski. So let me understand this.
Robin Wilensky, this guy, he's a music sensation, he's an icon.
Can't put together the bail money.
Speaker 12 (36:39):
Yes, quite incredible, isn't it. Here's a guy who wins
three Grammys for his songs. He's writing songs for other
famous artists. He's got all these videos, he's got all
these homes, he's got all this same he has all
this fortune. And oh, by the way, I can't come
up with one hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
It's actually two hundred and fifty thousand dollars bond for
each of the four women. That's a million dollar bond.
So he's got to come up with one hundred thousand
dollars in cash. Kelly's lawyers ask for a lower bond amount,
arguing that his finances are a mess because he has
just been dropped by a second by another record label.
(37:20):
But so far that hasn't happened. The bond remains at
one million dollars. I want to outline exactly what the
charges are to doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalysts out of Beverly Hills.
He is accused of basically operating compounds, homes, townhomes, condos,
(37:42):
at least six of them, where he houses young girls.
They start around age sixteen or so or younger, and
they live there for years. Everything they do, their food,
what they wear is controlled. They are given cell phones
that they can only die R. Kelly or his Hinch people.
(38:02):
They cannot come out of their rooms or go into
the hall. They have to ask to go to the restroom.
And apparently there is a den mother of sorts that
explains to these young girls how they are to accommodate R.
Kelly's demands, what he wants them to do, and if
that video was any indication of what he wants them
(38:25):
to do urinating in their mouth. I'm just very surprised
it's taken so long, doctor Bethany, How did it get
this far and what do you perceive of the acts
that he is committing.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Well, okay, Nancy, you note that sex offenders on average
offend for seventeen years before they come to the attention
of law enforcement or before they're incarcerated prosecuted. So I'm
not completely surprised by this. Look how long everything went
on with Harvey Weinstein before he was prosecuted. But Nancy,
we have to frame our thinking appropriately about what R.
(39:00):
Kelly is doing. This is not a school teacher in
a classroom that has targeted a miner and is obsessed
with that minor. This is a leader of a sex cult.
That's what he fancies himself as being. This is a
Warren Jeffs. This is a David Koresh, This is a
John of God. This is somebody who has amassed wealth
(39:23):
properties compounds so he can bring as many women in
as possible as a part of his harem. And then,
as with leaders of any cults, he systematically cuts them
off from financial and social support. He prevents them from
calling their families. He begins to deprive them of food, clothing,
(39:44):
and autonomy, and slowly he brainwashes them over time. So
we're so fascinated by the sexual aspect of the sex
cult that we forget that he is a run of
the mill cult leader, as any other cult leader would be.
Again cutting off his victims from outside support. He wants
(40:05):
to be the sole supplier of everything in their lives,
and I think he believed that this would go on
and on and on, this idea of not being able
to post bail. I'm sure she has a lot of
money and properties, but you have to pour a lot
of money into an obsession like this, Nancy. He's supporting
scores of women and paying off other women at the
(40:26):
same time in their families.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Brad mclin, he's got another problem with me. A veteran
trial lawyer out of New Jersey jurisdiction, Brad Macklin. Brad
he owes nearly two hundred thousand dollars of child support,
so his money problems don't stop with just his bail issue. Now,
according to court documents, he owes almost two hundred grand
in unpaid child support and catch this. The court ordered r.
(40:50):
Kelly to make monthly payments of about twenty grand back
in two thousand and nine. He didn't even show up
at the hearing, according to the court documents. Now, to
avoid being held in contempt a judge order, he paid
the entire amount one hundred and sixty one thousand by
March six. Of course, he didn't do it, and Greenberg,
(41:13):
his defense lawyer, says he doesn't have to pay the
child support before getting out of jail on this, I
bet the court will disagree with that. Brad Micklin, I
think the court's going to hold him till he pays
the child support plus the bond.
Speaker 8 (41:28):
I agree actually with you, Nancy. I think even if
they haven't ruled that way now, I think the Family
Court should be making some decisions about not only what
happens when he gets released, but what happens when he
does post the bell and comes to court. What happens
to one hundred thousand dollars? Does it get returned to him?
Or do attach it and take it and paid over
to the Child's department, which I think is what ultimately
(41:48):
will happen in this case.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Crime stories with Nancy Gray in the last days Predator
are Kelly demanding he be released from his thirty plus
year sentence on child abuse and sex trafficking because the
other inmates don't like him and he's afraid. We we
(42:20):
how do you think those boys and girls felt while
you were molesting them? You think they were afraid? You know,
I don't even want to hear it. Let's just revisit
what we know. You're never going to believe this. The
defense attorneys and all of R. Kelly's supporters, including his
two girlfriends, were in court want him released. Listen to
(42:44):
our friend at WGNTV. This is Nancy Luke.
Speaker 16 (42:48):
Kelly's attorneys are asking the judge to release the R
and B singer while he waits for trial, arguing that
he's not a danger to the community because many of
the allegations are decades old. They also don't think Kelly
should have prisoners as roommates. Kelly's attorneys are arguing that
he should get to live with his not one, but
two girlfriends in a secure facility such as a townhouse.
Speaker 8 (43:11):
A place it's appropriate, that'll be safe for him and
that can house.
Speaker 12 (43:16):
The women that are part of his relationship.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
So we can't tell you where he would be living.
R Kelly has just been moved out of solitary confinement
and into GP general population, but prosecutors are fighting back
against claims by his defense team he was held in
solitary against his will, and they point very clearly to
recorded jail house calls PS. All the calls of jail
(43:41):
are recorded, okay, and there's a warning that you hear
when you accept a call from the jail that it's
from a jail, okay. On those calls, he explained why
he refused to go into general population when it had
been offered, and he claims he was worried about his
fame making him too popular. Am unquote regular inmates? Who
(44:06):
does he think he is special? Quote if I go
to population, I'm just up on everybody, and everybody's up
on me, and I'm trying to figure out how to
trust that or whatever. He goes on to talk about
why he doesn't want quote too many people up on you.
I've seen too many movies and it's just that I'm
so popular.
Speaker 17 (44:27):
Here.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Lisa Van Allen, then a teen girl, when she meets R. Kelly, Lisa,
what happened when you got to Chicago?
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Initially, when I got there, you know, being so young,
it was a bit exciting to travel to another city
and to meet you know, him, and to hang out
here his music and things like that. But soon after that,
you know, that kind of died down because he asked
me to do a threesome with him, and the way
(44:58):
he got me to do it was he told me
it never had one before, and with me thinking that
his girlfriend, I felt, you know, kind of obligated to
do that for him if he had never had one before,
and he was a superstar, and you know what I mean,
I'm like, girls are always throwing themselves at him, and
he's never had one before, so I'll just I'll go
ahead and do it, you know, for him. We had
(45:19):
the threesome, and after we had it, it just became
and just something that he always wanted to do threesomes
with different girls.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
So what happened then I would get very upset.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
I'd cry more often than not, I cry about it,
and he would always try to give me like Pep
talks about how you know, it was just sex and
it didn't hold any emotion to him, and how a
lot of times he didn't know the girl's names, and
you know, if I could just do it and get
it over with, you know, So it would be a
lot of a trauma involved for me because you know,
(45:53):
it was something that I didn't want to do, and
I felt, you know, that I had to do it
for him, especially since I had already done it, you
know what I mean. But you know, once I've realized
once we did it, more than once, I believed it
was a lie. But I was already caught up into it,
and I ended up living there with him. You know,
he was taking care of me. You know, I didn't
have my job anymore at the mall, you know, so
(46:15):
it kind of was like I really didn't have a choice.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
When he would try to give you as you refer
to it as pep talks, you told me that he
would say things like, if you love me, you wouldn't
try to change me.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Yes, he would, Yes.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
He would say that, And he'd say things that he
would say that that's what his mother told him, if
if a woman loves a man, she won't try to
change him. So I'm thinking to myself, well, him and
his mother would know better than me. If i'm you know,
I'm you know, I'm a child. What do I know
about what a grown woman should do or what you
know to to please a man?
Speaker 3 (46:50):
You know?
Speaker 2 (46:50):
So I go off with what he told me, like, Okay, well,
I guess he's right.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
At this time, you were seventeen, and how old was
he thirty one? Okay, I guess that's all right. There
another bizarre twist and the prosecution of R Kelly, the
R and B star multi millionaire in the last days
Kelly insists he should be released, that inmates want to
(47:19):
kill him. Hmm, how about solitary That's a good alternative,
but not house arrest. Need see.
Speaker 17 (47:27):
There were several reasons that R. Kelly's attorneys cited for
requesting house arrest. Kelly's legal team submitted a motion claiming
Bureau of Prison officials conspired to arrange for him to
be killed by a fellow inmate. This alleged plot included
a terminally ill inmate who claimed he was promised early
release in exchange for carrying out the murder. They also
(47:50):
claim he was given an overdose quantity of medication by
prison staff, resulting in hospitalization. They also claim he was
being denied essential medication and surgery for blood clients. Kelly's
legal team also argued that continued incarceration under these circumstances,
with threats to his life and potential denial of medical care,
(48:12):
constitutes cruel and unusual punishment, a violation of his Eighth
Amendment rights. Federal prosecutors have called these allegations repugnant and
have stated that Kelly is using these claims to promote
himself and avoid responsibility for his crimes.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
Are Kelly previously acquitted in a child pornography case, then
arrested by FEDS and prosecuted. He catches a thirty plus
year sentence for child sex abuse and sex trafficking. According
to R. Kelly's lawyer quote, his situation is emblematic of
(48:51):
the weaponization of the DOJ to go after public features.
Ok So he is now what R Kelly is the
target of a government conspiracy? Okay?
Speaker 17 (49:06):
A federal judge denied Kelly's request for house arrest, citing
a lack of jurisdiction in the matter. It's just another
and a long list of legal maneuverings made by Kelly's
legal team. The Supreme Court has denied multiple appeals from R.
Kelly related to his convictions for sex crimes and racketeering.
In October of twenty twenty four, the Supreme Court declined
(49:29):
to hear an appeal regarding his convictions. Kelly's lawyers argued
a shorter statue of limitation should have applied, and just
last month, June twenty third, the Supreme Court denied an
appeal related to his RICO conviction. Kelly's legal team argued
the prosecution's use of the Rico Act to define the
terms enterprise was a misinterpretation. All these decisions mean that
(49:52):
R Kelly's convictions and his decade's long prison sentence will stand.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Hitmaker r Kelly demanding he get out of jail early
and have just house arrest. What is he jealous of
all the attention D B D D D is getting.
Goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. R Kelly. Okay, I guess
he's jealous. Shawn comes Diddy is getting all the attention
in the last days. Another wrinkle, let me say a
bizarre wrinkle in the R. Kelly sex trafficking prosecution. R Kelly,
(00:26):
a renowned R and B singer, multi millionaire, just can't
keep his yap shut. Kenny. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
The I Believe I Can fly hit Maker is behind bars. Yes,
he's in the can serving a thirty one year sentence
(00:47):
for child sex abuse crimes. You heard me right, child
sex abuse crimes. He hears about Seawan Combe's aka Diddy
getting all the attention, and now he has demanded that
he be set free and wants quote house arrest, citing
(01:09):
fears for his safety and claims there is a murder
plot orchestrated against him by fellow inmates. Oh, I hate
when that happens. When you get convicted on multiple counts
of child sex abuse and sex trafficking and you get
(01:31):
thrown behind bars and the other inmates don't like you. Wow,
I wonder why, hmmm, what do we know? With me
right now is a very special guest, Lisa Van Allen.
I met in just her poise and her emotion. Her
(01:54):
recounting her time with R. Kelly, the music superstar, nearly
broke my heart. Lisa, a father and mother of a girl,
say their daughter was ninety pounds and looked like a
prisoner after she returned from the singer's tour bus and
(02:16):
screamed quote like a mad woman at the mention of R.
Kelly's name. Now, these quote rumors have been swirling for years,
and I recall when R Kelly was prosecuted. I mean
it took a darn videotape being sent to the prosecutor's office.
(02:37):
I guess the word of the victims wasn't enough, so
they go forward with a video of R. Kelly not
only having sex with a minor that's called tuttory rape
according to the prosecution, but urinating on her and in
her mouth. Okay, the jury acquitted him, claiming that they
didn't know if the girl was underage. Okay, Lisa Allan,
(03:01):
could you please, as best as you can tell us
how you met R. Kelly and what happened after that.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
I met him in nineteen ninety eight at the Home
Alone video shoot. I actually went with a friend of
mine's girlfriend. She was an extra and I went with
her and I was an extra as well, and he
actually had his cousin come up to me and told
me that he wanted to meet me. I wasn't sure
(03:33):
who he was when he told me. He said, Rob
wants to meet you. And I was asking who Rob was,
and he said R Kelly. So I went over to him.
I was, you know, surprised because I was only seventeen
years old, so I didn't expect to meet him. There
were tons of grown women there, strippers and other you
know things like that that he could have been interested
in meeting. But he picked out the youngest girl in
(03:56):
the crowd and I went to met him and he
asked me how old I was, and I thought I
was seventeen. His first question, well, his second question was
will your mother let you come to Chicago?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Lisa hold on. For those of you just joining me,
an alleged victim of the superstar R Kelly, the creator
of I Believe I Can Fly. Hold on just a moment,
Doctor Bethany Marshall, let me ask Lisa one more question. Lisa,
was this before or after he was tried on that
(04:28):
video with the fourteen year old girl before? So, Doctor
Bethany Marshall, the first thing he did, and Lisa Van
Allen has been consistent every time she's told her story.
First thing he did. He seeks her out. There's all
these strippers, grown women everywhere. He comes over to a
teen girl and says, how old are you? What does
(04:49):
that tell you, Doctor Bethany?
Speaker 3 (04:51):
It tells me that this is his offending pattern. He
wants underage girls, minors, and he wants girls who are
pliable over whom he can have control. And you know
R Kelly is setting up a sex cult, so what
is he going to do. He's going to go towards
(05:11):
the youngest, the most vulnerable members of any group, and
he's going to recruit them. He's on a recruiting mission.
That's what it tells me.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Back to Lisa Van Allen, she claims that R. Kelly
took advantage of her sexually as a young girl, and
I believe her. I believe her standing on her own
because I've met her. We're not just some disembodied voices
over the airwaves. I have met Lisa Van Allen I
(05:43):
have looked her in the eye. I have spoken to
her on and off camera. I have evaluated her credibility,
her demeanor, her the degree of detail. I've compared her
current statements to many many previous statements for inconsistencies anderation.
And I can tell you, as a veteran felony prosecutor,
(06:06):
if I were a better I would put money that
Lisa Van Allen is telling the truth, and I believe
a jury would agree with me.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Listen, when we first started having sense, Rob was behind
the camera and I started popping the tapes in to
see what was on them. But I came across the
one with me him and the fourteen year.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
Old bootleg copies of the tape start showing up around
the country.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
This is the one that makes it almost impossible for
people to pretend that they did not know that this
person had a thing for little girls.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
So Lisa Van Allen, R. Kelly comes up to you,
amongst all the strippers and the women ground women, he
picks out a skinny little girl, and then what happens
says how old are you? Then what happens and when
your mama lets you come to my town?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Right? And then I mean, of course if he knows
I'm not going to ask my mother at the video
shoot and there's no you wouldn't have cell phones, you know,
back then like now. So I'm assuming he asked that
question just to see if I would agree to come
pretty much, you know what I mean? So yeah, so after.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
That, then, so what did what did you say?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
But yeah, I said yes, my mother would allow me
to come, but of course I didn't ask her, you
get what I mean?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
And that started it. Listen.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
R Kelly is arrested on the Chicago charges. The charges
they filed against him were not statutory rape charges. They
filed child pornography charges. It's the same penalties, but is
easier to prove if you cannot in it down to
a specific date. There was no date on the tape.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
What about the child or charge?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
How right?
Speaker 5 (07:54):
He ultimately has to face the charges in a Chicago courtroom.
He pleads not guilty in post his bail, and he's released.
Speaker 6 (08:08):
After R Kelly please not guilty, he goes straight to
a Southside church. He goes straight to an event where
he is admired by young children. Here, he is being
prosecuted for allegedly having sex with an underage girl and
ministers civil rights leaders in the city Chicago wanted to
(08:30):
play up the side of him that did the I
believe I can fuck, and not the side of him
with the ranting lyrics that kind of went along with
possibly having sex for.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
The underage girl you are hearing from Surviving R Kelly
on Lifetime. As we all know, the musical superstar R
Kelly was arrested on child porn charges for making that
grainy video with a fourteen year old girl in a
sex act. And in the video you can clearly see
a mole on the back of R. Kelly's back, which
(09:05):
is the mole on his back, But the girl would
refuse to admit that it was her, so the state
ran up against rock and a hard spot because they
couldn't definitely prove it was her. But Lisa Van Allen
is with me who lived with R Kelly, who I
believe is one of his victims. Lisa Van Allen, do
(09:27):
you believe the girl was fourteen years old in that
porn tape?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I know she was fourteen because we actually had a,
you know, a threesome with her and at the time
he told me she was sixteen years old. I later
found out that she was two years younger than that.
So because we were headed to one of his video shoots.
On the way there, she told me that she was
(09:53):
going to be getting a PP Cruiser for her sixteenth birthday.
By me doing the math, you know how long ago
the first encounter was. It was two years prior to that.
So if you're just about to turn sixteen in a
few weeks, and that would have made you fourteen when
we had the sexual encounter and the tape that was
on trial, she would exactly the same, had the same hairstyle,
(10:15):
the same, the same just everything, everything was exactly the same,
the same, It was even in the same room.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Well, I mean, Lisa, you had a threesome weather right,
But I think you've gotten to know her fairly well,
and you saw her, You saw her more of her
than any of us have seen. And I'm not judging.
I don't care who does what with who unless it
is non consensual or there's a minor involved, exactly, And
(10:43):
I think everyone is so in awe, not me, but
other people of r. Kelly that he has literally gotten
away with felonies for decades. I mean Lisa, his marriage
to Aleiah back in this all the time of my head.
In nineteen ninety six, she was fifteen, and he coerced
(11:06):
her to lie on the marriage certificate, to marry her exactly,
and then when it came out that the certificate was
a fraud, her parents had a fit, I'm sure, and
they got the thing annulled and she would never speak
if R Kelly is my understanding, Lisa, well.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I know he told me that they had to think
called pins and eyeballs, So no matter if it was
pins and her eyeballs or he, they wouldn't speak about it.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
So I want to go back to you, Lisa van
Allen with me who was lured into Ourchlly's web. So
he comes up to you on this video shoot. He
picks you out of all these grown women. You're just
a skinny little teen girl, ask if you can come
to his town, which I assume with Chicago. Did you go?
Speaker 7 (11:55):
Yes?
Speaker 8 (11:55):
I did.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I didn't go immediately. I waited about a month to
call him. The main reason was because I didn't know
what to talk to him about. I mean that might
sound a little praying to a grown people, but as
a young girl I didn't know what to talk to
a grown man yet alone R Kelly on the phone
about I didn't think he was going to rush me
(12:16):
to Chicago. I thought we were going to have a
phone conversation. So I waited a while to call him,
and then once I did call him, it was no
conversation other than him asking when can you get to Chicago?
Speaker 1 (12:25):
And then what happened?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
So I told him whenever, you know, he could get
me there, and he put me on the phone with
June Brown, which is his assistant, and June talked to
me through everything of how to get there. He didn't
book it for me, of course, because I was seventeen
at the time, so they sent me the money and
(12:47):
they actually told me to get my own ticket and
where to go and what hotel to go to once
I got there and everything, and then they brought me
to him once I got to Chicago.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
So they are killing his people told you how to
book your own ticket at seventeen, I would not have
known how to book my own ticket, and you did
and use the money.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
I didn't. No, I didn't even have an ID, so
I had to go and tuck me in to get
an ID, you know, telling me what's all I needed
to do to fly.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
To Nicole de Board joining me. Former prosecutor now criminal
defense lawyer, Nicole Aboard, You've prosecuted a lot of felony cases,
and I think this is diabolical. And I'll tell you why,
because they knew how to erase all the evidence of
their involvement. It's not him putting it on his credit
(13:36):
card or his recording studio. She did it so in
years to come they could go, oh, she just showed up.
We didn't even know she was coming.
Speaker 5 (13:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (13:47):
You know, it is heartbreaking to hear this account of
what happened. And I have to agree that what adds
to the credibility of this story here are the details,
the many many details about when and how and what
was said and what the instructions were. So I tend
to agree that this is the case that really ought
to hold up if the charges would just be accepted.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
You know, Alexis esschut writer online dot Com investigative reporter.
What a mind? Let me just think of the right
word for how to mess with your mind? Because one
moment he's having sex with these girls, and the next
moment people are cheering for him and he's singing gospel
(14:30):
music Nancy.
Speaker 9 (14:32):
The thing is so many people have come forward for
so many years with stories about R. Kelly, and the
authorities never believed them. Reporters. I have spoken with people
who said that they knew victims that we're living with R.
Kelly for years. We've written stories. The authorities have done
nothing because he is so famous and so rich and
(14:54):
so powerful, and just no one believed these girls.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
This is one of the.
Speaker 9 (14:58):
Hardest stories to cover a reporter. When you write things,
and you write them and no one believes it and
nothing happens. The police do nothing. It's so frustrating.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace, the Grammy winning singer and
pop icon, got thirty plus years behind bars for sex
abusing women and underage girls and boys, and doing it
over the span of decades. I remember when he was
(15:36):
sentenced by US District Judge and Donnelley. This is after
Donnelly heard multiple statements from seven victims during hours and
hours in court of victim statements in Brooklyn Federal Court.
And there was another witness, Javonte Cunningham. I will never
forget what was said. Quote. With every free edition of
(16:01):
a new victim, you grew in wickedness and the witness
steered directly at him. She said, and I quote, you
used your fame and power to groom and coach underage
boys and girls for your own sex gratification. Another victim stated,
(16:25):
in open court, quote you made me do things that
broke my spirit. I literally wished I would die because
of how low you made me feel. She then turned
to R. Kelly in court and said do you remember that?
And R Kelly wouldn't even look up at her. R Kelly,
(16:50):
Robert Sylvester Kelly convicted on nine charges racketeering, violating the
Man Act that bar interstate transportation of women and girls
for quote immoral purposes. Yeah, the judge threw the book
at him. But now he says, people behind bars don't
(17:12):
like me. I need house arrest. That chance, bro that chance.
Let's just revisit.
Speaker 10 (17:19):
The Cook County State's Attorney's office, as we understand it
now from two sources, has indicted R.
Speaker 11 (17:25):
Kelly.
Speaker 10 (17:25):
As you know, R Kelly back in two thousand and
eight went to trial. He went to trial on fourteen
counts of child pornography. He was acquitted in that trial.
And in that trial there was also physical evidence, including
a tape, a videotape that prosecutors at the time says
was a girl that was thirteen years or fourteen years
old and r Kelly involved in sexual acts that had been.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Recorded by r Kelly.
Speaker 10 (17:48):
But he was acquitted on those charges because the jury
said they simply could not positively, beyond a reasonable doubt,
end up being able to identify r Kelly or the girl,
even though they brought a lot of witnesses to say otherwise.
There were witnesses in that particular case that said opposite things,
and so the jury just was not able to go forward.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
With a conviction.
Speaker 10 (18:08):
R Kelly has always maintained that he is innocent of
all the charges and accusations that have been coming at him.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
You hear from our friend, sirrs Seidner. R Kelly behind bars,
indeded and booked on ten counts of aggravated criminal sex abuse.
Straight out to Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Robin
Olenski Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, author of Beautiful Life,
(18:34):
the CSI behind the Casey Anthony trial on Amazon, Robin,
what happened?
Speaker 12 (18:39):
Well, here's the story. Nancy r Kelly has been charged
with the ten counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse. These
are allegations that stem from many years from nineteen ninety
eight to twenty ten, involving four females, three who were
at the time teenage.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Teenage girls. When you say eighteen girls, Robin Olinsky, are
you talking thirteen or nineteen?
Speaker 12 (19:06):
Oh, we're talking thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, young, very young who
idolized this man.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Guys we're talking about are Kelly Robert Sylvester Kelly, aged
fifty two, said to spend another night in jail. Robin
Olinsky Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, tell me about
the arrest and the booking.
Speaker 12 (19:24):
Well, here's the situation. He actually R. Kelly turned himself
in in Chicago to the police department, and there were
many many reporters, both in mainstream news and entertainment reporters
all there shouting questions at him, did you do it?
Are you guilty? And he said nothing. He turned himself
(19:45):
into the police and he was booked. And then the
next day the judge he had a bond hearing, and
he was being held on a million dollar bond, has
to put up one hundred thousand cash to get out,
and so far, Nancy, he has come up with the money.
Here's this guy who allegedly has all this money and
his worst millions and billions of dollars, and he can't
(20:07):
come up with one hundred thousand dollars to get out.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Prosecutors allege one of the women was an underage girl
who Kelly solicited when he was on trial for child
porn back in two thousand and eight. Let me introduce
my all star panel, Robin Wolinsky, Crime online dot Com
investigative reporter Brad Micklan, New Jersey lawyer, doctor Bethany Marshall,
(20:31):
renowned California psychoanalyst Vincent Hill, cop turned PI author of
playbook to a murder on Amazon. Brad Micklin, you're the
high profile defense lawyer. According to sources, one of the
women was an underage girl Kelly solicited file he's on
(20:52):
trial for child porn back in two thousand and eight.
Remember that, Brad Micklin, what if your client jumped up
and he's on video with a fourteen year old girl
having sex and then urinates iner mouth. I mean, I
didn't want to say that, but that's the truth. That's
what happened, Brad mclin. And during that during that trial,
he sailicit's another underage girl.
Speaker 8 (21:14):
Well, if it's true, Nancy, it's obviously repulsive. But with
regard to the current charges facing him, there are many
issues that they need to get passed first. There are
going to be statue limitation issues because these a lot
of these actions were back in the late nineties. You
got this documentary out that's going to came to Jewelry Pool,
and yet Avignatti with his hands into the evidence before
(21:36):
the prosecutors even got to it. So I think long
before we start to judge him on whether or not
he did this, we have to see whether there's a
basis for them to move forward on it.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Okay, first of all, the only thing that I heard
that makes carries any water with me is the Avinati issue.
You know what, Avianati has seemed to land in the
middle of every every controversy he's involved with, the Stormy
Daniels issue, then he somehow injected himself in the me
(22:04):
too campaign, and now this. I have a problem with
him having states evidence first as well. But that aside,
this is a very interesting fact. Brad mclin and I
did not know this until I started very carefully researching
the law, the law has changed in multiple jurisdictions where
(22:26):
the statute of limitations no longer applies in cases like this,
and it's retroactive, which I was very surprised about, which
means that if you commit a crime, say you committed
the crime in two thousand, the two thousand law doesn't
apply anymore. You get the twenty nineteen law. That's very rare,
(22:49):
very rare under our constitution, but it's happened. So statute
of limitations is not going to help him. To doctor
Bethany Marshall, renown California psychoanalyst Dodger Bethany, I mean the
nerve while he's on trial for child porn, got a jury,
the works. According to these prosecutors, he slit it's another
(23:12):
little girl, Nancy.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
He's compulsive. I mean, he is a sex predator, predators
pre date. The attorney who was giving the press her
kept talking about the fact that there was more than
five years age difference between him and his victims. She
said it again and again and again. And what that
tells me is she's trying to say he's not your
(23:35):
average run of the mill sex predator. He is a pedophile.
The criteria for pedophilia is that there is more than
five years age difference between the offender and the victim,
and that the victim is precubescent. Now, the youngest one
was thirteen years old, so she was on the cusp.
(23:56):
But as you just mentioned that, there was that other
case when he was brought up charges of child pornography.
So this guy just can't stop himself. His whole life
is organized around the compulsion. And I think fancy that
this is why he doesn't have any money. How can
you make money when all you want to do is
have sex with little kids? It ruins your entire life.
(24:17):
This is all he can do. He's a talented musician,
but I bet most of his waking hours are thinking
about obtaining access to children and having sex with him.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Well. Also, if reports are true, he is keeping up
at least six different properties in the Atlanta area alone,
plus whatever he's got going on in Chicago, housing all
of these women that are in his harem. And that
is a euphemistic way to put it, you know, let
me just put it like this. I've told many a
(24:47):
jury and Brad Macklin is going to shudder during this.
The story at the end of a closing argument about
mister Scorpion and mister Turtle. Mister Scorpion meets mister Turtle
at the side of the river and says, please just
carry me across, and Turtle says, oh no, mister Scorpion,
because you will surely bite me and we will both
(25:07):
go to the bottom of the river and I will die.
But Scorpion says, I promise, Why would I kill myself?
Subby grudgingly, Turtle takes him across the river. Halfway across,
Turtle feels a pain in his neck and he says,
mister Scorpion, you bit me now we will both die,
and Scorpion says, I can't help it. It's just my nature.
Speaker 13 (25:29):
Earlier today, Robert Kelly was indicted before a Cook County
grand jury on ten counts of aggravated criminals sexual abuse
involving four victims. The first victim initials HW, was involved
in incidents which occurred between May twenty six to nineteen
ninety eight and May twenty fifth, nineteen ninety nine. A
(25:50):
grand jury returned an indictment on four counts of aggravated
criminals sexual abuse based on the victim being under the
age of seventeen and Robert Kelly being more more than
five years older than the victim. The second victim, initials
r L, was involved in an incident which occurred between
September twenty sixth nineteen ninety eight and September twenty fifth,
(26:11):
two thousand and one. A grand jury returned an indictment
on two counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse based on
the victims being under the age of seventeen and Robert
Kelly being more than five years older than that victim.
The third victim, INITIALS LC, was involved in an incident
which occurred February eighteenth, two thousand and three. A grand
(26:33):
jury returned an indictment on one count of aggravated criminal
sexual abuse based on the transmission of seamen by Robert
Kelly upon any part of the body of the victim
for the purpose of sexual gratification during the course of
an underlying felony of attempt criminal sexual assault. The fourth victim,
initials JP, was involved in incidents which occurred between May one,
(26:56):
two thousand and nine and January thirty first, two thy ten.
A grand jury returned an indictment on the three counts
three counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse based on the
victim being under the age of seventeen and Robert Kelly
being more than five years older than the victim. Aggravated
criminal sexual abuse is a Class two felony with the
(27:18):
sentencing range of three to seven years for count. It
is also probationable. We anticipate that mister Kelly will appear
in bond court tomorrow afternoon.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Thank you. You are hearing the prosecutor outline all of
the charges against R and B star are Kelly, Robert
Sylvester Kelly. And right now he's sitting in the can.
There's just no nice way to put it. He's behind
bars trying to drum up the money to make bond.
Joining me Robbie Olinsky, Vincent Hill, doctor Bethany Marshall, and
(27:50):
Brad Micklin to Vincent Hill turned PI, author of playbook
to a Murder on Amazon. You know, they go all
the way back to nineteen ninety eight for these claims,
which show me the statute of limitation is not an
effect based on new legislation. A lot of defense attorneys,
(28:10):
probably including Brad McK limb, but certainly R. Kelly's lawyer
is going to argue to a jury that these claims
are so old, why are they just coming forward? Now?
Speaker 9 (28:20):
You know what jr.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Ar might fall for that, But there are other counts
as well. Vincent, what did they have to do to
get this information, to get the evidence to show the case.
Speaker 11 (28:28):
Well, Manti, I'm glad they did update the statute of
limitations for these gruesome crimes. I mean, this reminds me
of a Monica Lewinsky. You heard you got semen on dresses,
you got semen on shirt, You've got semen on blouses.
So the physical evidence is there. Thankfully, if we can
get past these statue of limitations, we can actually get
a conviction. And it's no wonder he's still sitting in
jail and he can't come up with one hundred grand.
(28:49):
He's been paying off women for years before closed on
his house in twenty twelve because he had to go
and pay all these women in civil cases. So it's
no wonder he's sitting in jail and that's where he belongs.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Quite frank two, Doctor Bethany Marshall, renownced California psychoanalyst. Doctor Bethany,
you would think after the first jury trial where he's
actually brought up on felony charges of creating pornography with
a girl fourteen years old. You would think that that
would stop him, but it didn't.
Speaker 14 (29:20):
According to prosecutors, offenders offend again and again and again,
and they organize their entire lives around the compulsion to offend,
like see a lesser compulsion.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Let's take for example, alcoholism. An alcoholic might get a
job as a bartender. A pedophile might get a job
as a priest, or as a school teacher. A sex
offender pedophile might become a musician so he can lure
little girls, and he will remain undeterred even when he
(29:55):
has to pay out settlements. This is what we saw
with Michael Jackson. Remember settlement after settlement with little boys.
But the crimes went on and on. And that's because
there's also something called institutional sociopathy, where one socip path
bands with another and then bands with another.
Speaker 9 (30:12):
These people like r.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Kelly, and we saw this with Harvey Weinstein, they surround
themselves with people who accommodate to their crimes, so they
are aided and embedded all over the place. And that's
why the offending pattern never stopped.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
To New Jersey lawyer High profile. Defense attorney Brad mclin
joining us, Brad macklin, what do you make of the
fact that some of the charges date back to nineteen
ninety eight and how would you attack that a trial?
Speaker 8 (30:40):
Well, and that's going to be a problem. I mean,
he's not at this time. Several victims in several incidents,
So you first attacked the statute limitations because in Illinois
the limitations depend on whether or not there's corroboration, the
age of defender and the relationship that R. Kelly may
have had with that meaning was he in a position
of the thought or where they personally claimed.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
So as a defense.
Speaker 8 (31:02):
Attorney, you're going to attack each specific event, each specific
victim and date to try to knock out some of
the claims. It's not going to be a slam dunk
on a statute limitations issue, but at least you can
get rid of some of the offenses and some of
the victims and reduce what you're facing a trial.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Guys, when Brad and I are talking about statute of limitations,
what that means is under our jurisprudence, under our constitution,
after a certain period of time years, cases can no
longer be prosecuted. They're deemed too old. The evidence is
no longer as valid as it was before. That's the rationale.
(31:41):
So you have a limit on how many years pass
until you can no longer try the case. This is
what we know. Singer R Kelly's prosecutors alleging he's solicited
underage girls for sex even while he was on trial
for child porn. While he was on trial back in
two thousand and eight, according to prosecutors, Kelly still found
(32:02):
time to talk to fans, to sign autographs, to take photos,
and meet an underage girl he invited to his home, and,
according to them, solicited for sex. Other accusers include a
little girl who met Kelly at her sixteenth birthday party,
and a hairdresser who expected to braid the singers here,
only to find out he wanted a sex act instead.
(32:25):
He goes on and on and on, but now he's
really looking at a heap of trouble. Now, this is
the person you don't want to have a fender bender with.
And see Gloria allready get out of the car in
front of you. Oh no, you do not listen to this.
Speaker 15 (32:40):
We have an appointment today with the New York City
Police Department, who have as asked to meet with Faith
in furtherance of their investigation into potential victims of R.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Kelly.
Speaker 15 (32:50):
We will offer our full and complete cooperation in their investigation.
Prosecutors in Chicago and Atlanta are also seeking information from
potent victims, and we plan to offer them our cooperation
as well. Mister Kelly, you may soon join the ranks
of Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Just as they have.
Speaker 15 (33:11):
Been and are being held accountable for their actions, you
also must be accountable.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
To Robin Olensky, author of Beautiful Life and Crime Online
dot com investigative reporter, where you can find this and
every other breaking news item in justice and criminal law.
Robin Lensky, how did Gloria already get involved?
Speaker 12 (33:34):
Well, Gloria Allread is now representing one of the underage
girls who has claims against R.
Speaker 7 (33:44):
Kelly.
Speaker 12 (33:44):
You know what, Nancy, When I've been researching this case
and covering it over time, what comes to my mind
though about this? Remember what your grandmother used to say
to you, Where there's smoke, there's fire. Now, all of
these are allegations, but you start building your ca and
it goes back to nineteen ninety eight, and then you
know there's stuff prior to that, and then it goes
(34:05):
on and on and on.
Speaker 15 (34:06):
In response to the allegations of his many alleged victims
as contained in the recent Lifetime documentary, Kelly's attorney has
appeared to threaten a lawsuit against Lifetime, and, according to
news reports, someone associated with Kelly's team launched a Facebook
page called quote Surviving Lies to allegedly discredit his accusers.
(34:29):
Reports indicated that the page was quote swiftly taken down
for violating Facebook's policy on bullying or sharing others private
contact information. News reports also claim that mister Kelly is
threatening to sue everyone involved in the documentary. Mister Kelly's attorney,
Stephen Greenberg, said the singer will quote hopefully sue Lifetime
(34:53):
in his first interview with ABC News since the release
of Lifetime Surviving R. Kelly, I say to mister Kelly
and his attorney, be careful what you hope for. All
of these attempts to intimidate and threaten our clients and
others will not work. Mister Kelly, Your disgusting tactics will
not prevent women who alleged they were victimized from telling
(35:13):
their truth.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
That is at turning Gloria Allred and I've got to
tell you something. I got a soft spot for her,
and this is why I not always heard of her.
And I worked with her daughterly sublime at Court TV
for many many years. Fine fine woman, and long story short.
When I was out covering the Scott Peterson trial and
I was there in Medwood City for months and months
(35:35):
and months, I would get to the courthouse, okay, I'd
get there around six o'clock in the morning to start
doing morning TV, stay for the whole day do Court TV,
and stay to do Larry King, which ended at that
time at ten o'clock at night. When I would finally
leave the courthouse, I would notice that Gloria Allred was
(35:56):
there when I got there at six. When I left
at night, I remember her standing there in her fancy
Saint John's suit, working two cell phones, standing at a
stop sign, working We're king. I'm telling you, she's got
a work ethic like nobody else, Gloria Allred. And when
she gets ahold of your case, it's like a pit
bull's got a hold of you. You got to get pliers,
(36:18):
you got to get a utensil to get her jaw
off your case. Joining me Brad Micklin, doctor Bethany Marshall,
Vincent Hill, and Robin Wolenski. So let me understand this.
Robin Wilensky, this guy, he's a music sensation, he's an icon.
Can't put together the bail money.
Speaker 12 (36:39):
Yes, quite incredible, isn't it. Here's a guy who wins
three Grammys for his songs. He's writing songs for other
famous artists. He's got all these videos, he's got all
these homes, he's got all this same he has all
this fortune. And oh, by the way, I can't come
up with one hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
It's actually two hundred and fifty thousand dollars bond for
each of the four women. That's a million dollar bond.
So he's got to come up with one hundred thousand
dollars in cash. Kelly's lawyers ask for a lower bond amount,
arguing that his finances are a mess because he has
just been dropped by a second by another record label.
(37:20):
But so far that hasn't happened. The bond remains at
one million dollars. I want to outline exactly what the
charges are to doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalysts out of Beverly Hills.
He is accused of basically operating compounds, homes, townhomes, condos,
(37:42):
at least six of them, where he houses young girls.
They start around age sixteen or so or younger, and
they live there for years. Everything they do, their food,
what they wear is controlled. They are given cell phones
that they can only die R. Kelly or his Hinch people.
(38:02):
They cannot come out of their rooms or go into
the hall. They have to ask to go to the restroom.
And apparently there is a den mother of sorts that
explains to these young girls how they are to accommodate R.
Kelly's demands, what he wants them to do, and if
that video was any indication of what he wants them
(38:25):
to do urinating in their mouth. I'm just very surprised
it's taken so long, doctor Bethany, How did it get
this far and what do you perceive of the acts
that he is committing.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Well, okay, Nancy, you note that sex offenders on average
offend for seventeen years before they come to the attention
of law enforcement or before they're incarcerated prosecuted. So I'm
not completely surprised by this. Look how long everything went
on with Harvey Weinstein before he was prosecuted. But Nancy,
we have to frame our thinking appropriately about what R.
(39:00):
Kelly is doing. This is not a school teacher in
a classroom that has targeted a miner and is obsessed
with that minor. This is a leader of a sex cult.
That's what he fancies himself as being. This is a
Warren Jeffs. This is a David Koresh, This is a
John of God. This is somebody who has amassed wealth
(39:23):
properties compounds so he can bring as many women in
as possible as a part of his harem. And then,
as with leaders of any cults, he systematically cuts them
off from financial and social support. He prevents them from
calling their families. He begins to deprive them of food, clothing,
(39:44):
and autonomy, and slowly he brainwashes them over time. So
we're so fascinated by the sexual aspect of the sex
cult that we forget that he is a run of
the mill cult leader, as any other cult leader would be.
Again cutting off his victims from outside support. He wants
(40:05):
to be the sole supplier of everything in their lives,
and I think he believed that this would go on
and on and on, this idea of not being able
to post bail. I'm sure she has a lot of
money and properties, but you have to pour a lot
of money into an obsession like this, Nancy. He's supporting
scores of women and paying off other women at the
(40:26):
same time in their families.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Brad mclin, he's got another problem with me. A veteran
trial lawyer out of New Jersey jurisdiction, Brad Macklin. Brad
he owes nearly two hundred thousand dollars of child support,
so his money problems don't stop with just his bail issue. Now,
according to court documents, he owes almost two hundred grand
in unpaid child support and catch this. The court ordered r.
(40:50):
Kelly to make monthly payments of about twenty grand back
in two thousand and nine. He didn't even show up
at the hearing, according to the court documents. Now, to
avoid being held in contempt a judge order, he paid
the entire amount one hundred and sixty one thousand by
March six. Of course, he didn't do it, and Greenberg,
(41:13):
his defense lawyer, says he doesn't have to pay the
child support before getting out of jail on this, I
bet the court will disagree with that. Brad Micklin, I
think the court's going to hold him till he pays
the child support plus the bond.
Speaker 8 (41:28):
I agree actually with you, Nancy. I think even if
they haven't ruled that way now, I think the Family
Court should be making some decisions about not only what
happens when he gets released, but what happens when he
does post the bell and comes to court. What happens
to one hundred thousand dollars? Does it get returned to him?
Or do attach it and take it and paid over
to the Child's department, which I think is what ultimately
(41:48):
will happen in this case.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Crime stories with Nancy Gray in the last days Predator
are Kelly demanding he be released from his thirty plus
year sentence on child abuse and sex trafficking because the
other inmates don't like him and he's afraid. We we
(42:20):
how do you think those boys and girls felt while
you were molesting them? You think they were afraid? You know,
I don't even want to hear it. Let's just revisit
what we know. You're never going to believe this. The
defense attorneys and all of R. Kelly's supporters, including his
two girlfriends, were in court want him released. Listen to
(42:44):
our friend at WGNTV. This is Nancy Luke.
Speaker 16 (42:48):
Kelly's attorneys are asking the judge to release the R
and B singer while he waits for trial, arguing that
he's not a danger to the community because many of
the allegations are decades old. They also don't think Kelly
should have prisoners as roommates. Kelly's attorneys are arguing that
he should get to live with his not one, but
two girlfriends in a secure facility such as a townhouse.
Speaker 8 (43:11):
A place it's appropriate, that'll be safe for him and
that can house.
Speaker 12 (43:16):
The women that are part of his relationship.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
So we can't tell you where he would be living.
R Kelly has just been moved out of solitary confinement
and into GP general population, but prosecutors are fighting back
against claims by his defense team he was held in
solitary against his will, and they point very clearly to
recorded jail house calls PS. All the calls of jail
(43:41):
are recorded, okay, and there's a warning that you hear
when you accept a call from the jail that it's
from a jail, okay. On those calls, he explained why
he refused to go into general population when it had
been offered, and he claims he was worried about his
fame making him too popular. Am unquote regular inmates? Who
(44:06):
does he think he is special? Quote if I go
to population, I'm just up on everybody, and everybody's up
on me, and I'm trying to figure out how to
trust that or whatever. He goes on to talk about
why he doesn't want quote too many people up on you.
I've seen too many movies and it's just that I'm
so popular.
Speaker 17 (44:27):
Here.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
Lisa Van Allen, then a teen girl, when she meets R. Kelly, Lisa,
what happened when you got to Chicago?
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Initially, when I got there, you know, being so young,
it was a bit exciting to travel to another city
and to meet you know, him, and to hang out
here his music and things like that. But soon after that,
you know, that kind of died down because he asked
me to do a threesome with him, and the way
(44:58):
he got me to do it was he told me
it never had one before, and with me thinking that
his girlfriend, I felt, you know, kind of obligated to
do that for him if he had never had one before,
and he was a superstar, and you know what I mean,
I'm like, girls are always throwing themselves at him, and
he's never had one before, so I'll just I'll go
ahead and do it, you know, for him. We had
(45:19):
the threesome, and after we had it, it just became
and just something that he always wanted to do threesomes
with different girls.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
So what happened then I would get very upset.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
I'd cry more often than not, I cry about it,
and he would always try to give me like Pep
talks about how you know, it was just sex and
it didn't hold any emotion to him, and how a
lot of times he didn't know the girl's names, and
you know, if I could just do it and get
it over with, you know, So it would be a
lot of a trauma involved for me because you know,
(45:53):
it was something that I didn't want to do, and
I felt, you know, that I had to do it
for him, especially since I had already done it, you
know what I mean. But you know, once I've realized
once we did it, more than once, I believed it
was a lie. But I was already caught up into it,
and I ended up living there with him. You know,
he was taking care of me. You know, I didn't
have my job anymore at the mall, you know, so
(46:15):
it kind of was like I really didn't have a choice.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
When he would try to give you as you refer
to it as pep talks, you told me that he
would say things like, if you love me, you wouldn't
try to change me.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Yes, he would, Yes.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
He would say that, And he'd say things that he
would say that that's what his mother told him, if
if a woman loves a man, she won't try to
change him. So I'm thinking to myself, well, him and
his mother would know better than me. If i'm you know,
I'm you know, I'm a child. What do I know
about what a grown woman should do or what you
know to to please a man?
Speaker 3 (46:50):
You know?
Speaker 2 (46:50):
So I go off with what he told me, like, Okay, well,
I guess he's right.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
At this time, you were seventeen, and how old was
he thirty one? Okay, I guess that's all right. There
another bizarre twist and the prosecution of R Kelly, the
R and B star multi millionaire in the last days
Kelly insists he should be released, that inmates want to
(47:19):
kill him. Hmm, how about solitary That's a good alternative,
but not house arrest. Need see.
Speaker 17 (47:27):
There were several reasons that R. Kelly's attorneys cited for
requesting house arrest. Kelly's legal team submitted a motion claiming
Bureau of Prison officials conspired to arrange for him to
be killed by a fellow inmate. This alleged plot included
a terminally ill inmate who claimed he was promised early
release in exchange for carrying out the murder. They also
(47:50):
claim he was given an overdose quantity of medication by
prison staff, resulting in hospitalization. They also claim he was
being denied essential medication and surgery for blood clients. Kelly's
legal team also argued that continued incarceration under these circumstances,
with threats to his life and potential denial of medical care,
(48:12):
constitutes cruel and unusual punishment, a violation of his Eighth
Amendment rights. Federal prosecutors have called these allegations repugnant and
have stated that Kelly is using these claims to promote
himself and avoid responsibility for his crimes.
Speaker 1 (48:29):
Are Kelly previously acquitted in a child pornography case, then
arrested by FEDS and prosecuted. He catches a thirty plus
year sentence for child sex abuse and sex trafficking. According
to R. Kelly's lawyer quote, his situation is emblematic of
(48:51):
the weaponization of the DOJ to go after public features.
Ok So he is now what R Kelly is the
target of a government conspiracy? Okay?
Speaker 17 (49:06):
A federal judge denied Kelly's request for house arrest, citing
a lack of jurisdiction in the matter. It's just another
and a long list of legal maneuverings made by Kelly's
legal team. The Supreme Court has denied multiple appeals from R.
Kelly related to his convictions for sex crimes and racketeering.
In October of twenty twenty four, the Supreme Court declined
(49:29):
to hear an appeal regarding his convictions. Kelly's lawyers argued
a shorter statue of limitation should have applied, and just
last month, June twenty third, the Supreme Court denied an
appeal related to his RICO conviction. Kelly's legal team argued
the prosecution's use of the Rico Act to define the
terms enterprise was a misinterpretation. All these decisions mean that
(49:52):
R Kelly's convictions and his decade's long prison sentence will stand.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Hitmaker r Kelly demanding he get out of jail early
and have just house arrest. What is he jealous of
all the attention D B D D D is getting.
Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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