November 27, 2017 • 51 mins
More Americans died from drug overdoses than guns or car crashes last year, with opioids blamed for most of the 64,070 deaths. A federal report estimates 2.4 million Americans have an "opioid-use disorder." Nancy Grace discusses the crisis with lawyer Mark Tate, who represents local governments suing drug companies for marketing practices they contend help fuel the epidemic, Dr. William Morrone, an opioid treatment expert, reporter Ninette Sosa, and Tim Ryan, a recovering heroin addict who is the star of A&E's "Dope Man" series.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph
Channel one thirty two. Last year, synthetic opioids like Fintonel
surpassed heroin as the leading cause of drug overdose deaths.
Or people are dying from scription peals and the are
from motor vehicle collectident and the number of overdose deaths
caused by synthetic opioids has more than doubled from These
(00:26):
are people, These are real people, and they're dying out
because nobody seems to care anymore. Altogether, the number of
opioid overdose deaths surpassed the number of deaths caused by
the aids of Adenna cut its peak. In Sulton County,
leaders along with representatives from a private law firm, are
suing twelve manufacturers and distributors of opioid based medication. They
say the company's downplay at the risks associated with the drug.
(00:50):
We were all stunned to see recent images and these
were not doctored. They were not photoshopped, because, believe me,
I investigated it of a couple, nice car, look like
a suburban mom and dad passed out at the wheel.
At first I thought I was seeing an image of
some kind of a hit and run or a crash
(01:11):
or a single car incident. It wasn't. There were children
in the back seat. They were looking at Mommy and
daddy passed out on opioid's heroine. And that photo, that
one image circulated around the world. We are in the
(01:31):
middle of an opioid crisis and opioid epidemic. Other countries
are looking at us saying, look, America has an opioid epidemic.
Look at the US. What how did we get in
this spot? And I remember prosecuting cases and there would
(01:51):
be one guy after the next guy, after a woman,
after a stock broker, after a banker, or after a
soccer mom coming into court with heroin. I couldn't believe it.
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with me. With me now. Mark Tate, lawyer representing
government suing drug companies. That's what it's come to. Dr
(02:15):
William Moroney, opioid treatment expert Nanette Sosa, Crime Stories contributing
reporter and Tim Ryan a and ease quote dope man. Okay,
I don't know how I feel about that, dopeman and
advisor to rehab dot Com, Tim Ryan, I'm starting with you.
You we're an addict. How did you get clean? I
(02:40):
unfortunately got clean, being sentenced to seven years in the
Illinois Department at Corrections. As you were just talking. I
was that middle class father. I was a very successful businessman.
I had an office in the Wrigley Building in downtown
Chicago on Michigan Avenue. Like I made a very good living,
but I also struggled with heroin and and had a
(03:00):
five dollar a day habit. I overdose why driving, hit
two cars, put four people in the hospital, one being
a nine month old baby. Wait wait, wait, wait, wait,
wait wait wait. Tim Ryan with me a and he's
dope man, advisor to rehab dot Com. And I know
right now I can't see Dr William Roney, my friend
(03:20):
in colleague, but I know he is just shaking his head.
Tim Ryan, you did what? I overdoseed why driving? I
hit two cars. I put four people in the hospital.
I was clinically dead on the scene. It took uh
five doses of Narcan to bring me back. Um. I
(03:41):
ultimately started fighting my case. And and here's where it
gets deeper, because unless you live in the world of addiction,
you're gonna shake your head now all my family knows.
Dad's a heroin addict, and I had tried some boxing
in the early two thousands and methodone. I wasn't ready
to get sober. In the midst of fighting my case,
I know I'm going to prison. And about three months
(04:03):
into fighting my case, I'm profusely dope sick. And when
you don't have opiates, you're hot, you're cold. It's like
having the flu times a thousand. I'm taking a hot
bath in My seventeen year old son walks in. He said,
what's wrong, Pops? And I said, what do you think, Nick,
I'm dope sick. And he said, not anymore, Dad, Today's
you're lucky day. And he threw two bags of heroin
on the counter. Now with Nick, I was not a father,
(04:26):
I was a friend. I was the father that let
my son and his buddy smoke a little weed, drink
a little beer. And when Nick did that, I got
out of the top and I did those two bags,
and and instantly I felt better. And I went my
son's room and I said, Nick, what are you doing?
He said, don't worry, Dad, I'm just selling a little bit.
I said, Nick, you need to shut this down. Immediately,
(04:49):
you know what this drug gets done to me. And
my son looked right at me and he said, well, Dad,
you're a successful drug addict. And I said, why would
you say that. We always got a nice house, you
have an office in the Wrigley Building, make a good living.
In my son's delusional mind, he thought I was successful
because I functioned. Three months later, my son and I
were doing heroin together. That's how we bonded. Tim Wait
(05:11):
a minute, wait wait wait, wait, wait wait wait, it's
hurting me so bad. I mean, I can tell you've
told the story a hundred times spent. I'm hearing it
for the first time, and I can hardly take it
in because I'm thinking about, you know, every night when
I run back to the back and try to take
a quick bath. In fact, it's so funny, you know,
(05:33):
Dr Maroney. You know my children, they're so used to
me going so fast, they actually thought the name of
a shower was a quick shower. They didn't know you
could take a shower. They grew up here and me go,
I'm gonna take a quick shower. And they grew up
and they go, my mom, and go take a quick shower.
They don't even know. I'm so used to going ninety
miles an hour, so when I'm back there, they always
(05:55):
are coming in and out and talking and showing me
something or whatever they're doing. I'm just imagining one of
my little babies thrown down two bags of heroin. I mean,
tim with me a and ease quote dope Man Advisor
rehab dot Com telling the story. Dr Maroney, I mean
to him, that's normal to me. I'm actually crying right now.
(06:18):
I just to even think of it, Dr Moroney, How
how did we How did we get here? Doctor? There's
been a shift in the new normal, and you may
be uncomfortable with it, but became evident through medical mismanagement.
The proper way to evaluate pain was interfered with by
(06:40):
non governmental organizations, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and they pushed
medications into the public through channels education, medical societies, and
opioids became very common in our society. Okay, spake English.
(07:01):
When you say opioids, are you talking about oxyconton? Well,
what do you mean norco vicodin? Oxycon? I went to
I went tool, not denography oxy. I'm still on oxycodon. Okay, oxyconton?
You said something about nor Nook vicodin. Don't even try
(07:23):
to take notes. Okay, I'm putting go ahead. All you
gotta know is pain pills got out of control because
there was an organization called the Joint Commission on Hospital
Accreditation that forced this concept of pain being a fifth
vital sign down people's throats, and some of the governments
(07:44):
in the States and the hospitals and the medical schools said, hey,
this is a good idea, and they didn't train doctors
are providers how to adequately assess pain and treat it.
Is that what happened to Tim Ryan, because it sounds
to me like it was a bad of heroin, not
at oxycont Now when you're saying, Dr Moroney, you're calling
off all these pharmaceutical names, I think I know what
(08:07):
you're talking about. You're talking about what blues kickers, O
c oxy Hillbilly heroin. Now those are the names I know.
I'm very familiar with those. Well that's what they call
it down in Atlanta. Uh huh. But here's what happens.
And when people start getting kicked off, they moved heroin
with a blink of an eye. When when people no
longer have access to the pharmaceutical medication that was pushed
(08:30):
on them. In a blink of an eye. They transfer
because their their minds have been rewired. They don't want
to be sick, and starting heroin is just the next
step and that's the new normal. So Tim Ryan, addicts
may crush peels before swallowing or snorting them, dissolve pills
(08:52):
and water inject them, get multiple prescriptions for narcotics from
different doctors, go to the emergency room to get more
peals when they run out, request emergency refills for medication,
drink alcohol, or use sentence or other pain killers with
their prescription. Uh, take prescription painkillers without a prescription, just
for any reason. If you know someone that's doing these
(09:14):
things and more, you've got a problem. Tim Ryan any
dopeman advisor rehab dot Com. I want to get back
to that moment that you thought it was normal it
was okay for your son to come in with two
bags of heroin. I would completely nut up and burn
the house down. Okay, I don't even know what I
would do. Uh what happens then? So you have to understand,
(09:39):
you know, I'm I'm when you're and I will never
justify because ultimately, my son died and I will be
the first to admit I helped kill my own son,
and I have to live with that for the rest
of my life. I didn't start Nick on heroin, but
he followed in my footsteps and and I own that.
But when I was in that bath profusely sick, and
(10:01):
he said, Dad, I've got two bags of heroin. It
was good. I can do those. You're not trying to
get high, I'm just trying to feel normal. And within
two minutes I felt normal. And then ultimately Nick and
I started using. And then I was sentenced to seven
years in prison. And when I went to prison, I
left my wife high and dry, our house and foreclosure.
(10:24):
My addiction caused damage to everyone near and dear to me,
and by the grace of God, I was able to
get into Sheridan Correctional Center in Illinois. There's twenty eight
prisons in Illinois. Two of them have a therapeutic community
run through West Carre and I got into that. I
did thirteen and a half months in that prison. My
wife divorced me, I lost our house and foreclosure. I
(10:45):
displaced my four kids and my wife. My son was
an active addiction. But all I did was plugged into recovery.
My cellmate night eighteen hours a day, and that sell
studied the Big Book of Alcoholics, Anonymous, the na he said,
texts of Bible, read hundreds of books. I wrote the
business plan for the foundation I run today in that
(11:06):
prison cell. When I walked out, Shannon, my former better half,
picked me up. She had a little town house set
up for me in downtown Naperville. Because I am forty
nine years old today, and as someone was saying earlier,
Dr Moroney, looks, I don't have a driver's license. I
have not had a driver's license in sixteen years due
to my driving. No revolts driving and getting d uise.
(11:29):
But the good thing is I have a full time
driver in a company car. And my full time driver
is my my nineteen year old son. So I get
the honor and privilege of working with my son every day,
speaking in schools too, and everything we do. But I
got out of prison. Shannon brought Nickmack, Tim Ryan any
Dopeman advisor rehab dot com. You're you're Jackie and I
(11:53):
own the studio. We can't take it in. You're going
so fast this this story I mean every sentence as
a whole knee. You think, so your wife that divorced you, Yeah,
while you were behind bars getting yourself together, she got
you a town house to move into while you're in jail.
And my mother did. And even though Shannon divorced me,
(12:13):
she still brought two of the kids to visit me
every two weeks. She was my biggest supporter. And I
asked her, I said, why did you not give up
on me? She said, Tim, when you went to prison,
my heart was broken. Then it got to be a
task to come and see you. Then I was excited
that you were getting out because I had a little
bit of hope that you might turn your life around.
(12:34):
And I did. I I started at the support groups,
so I have the families and persons struggling coming At
the same time, I set up my foundation. I stumbled
into working for a treatment center doing outreach. And then
on my nineteenth sobriety day, my twenty year old son
Nick was back in treatment for the fifth or sixth time,
and I went to meet with Nick and he said, Dad,
(12:55):
we're going to speak all over the country. We got
such a crazy story, I said, Nick, I would want
nothing more than that, but you need to get into recovery.
Don't worry, Dad, I will. He got out. Thirty days later,
he's back in Cook County jail, Sellem bogus Fells trying
to buy heroin. He did forty five days he got out.
Shannon picked him up, took him to lunch and said, Nick,
(13:17):
we're done. You're not coming to my house. You're not
coming to dad's because all you do is light, cheat
and steel. Don't worry. I got it all figured out.
Five days out of jail, I called Nick and I said, Nick,
this is three and a half years ago. I said, Nick,
come to my house and get some nark in. I
was doing a big training event the following week. We
started handing it out our support groups and he said, Dad,
(13:37):
I promise you I'm not on that ps anymore. And
I believed him. Two days later, Shannon called me at
six in the morning, said, Nick overdose. I'm coming to
pick you up. We shot to Hinsdale Hospital. We ran
into the emergency room, Jim and Shannon ryan to see
her son Nick. He overdosed, and thirty seconds later the
chaplain walked out. I knew my son was dead, and
(14:00):
I'll ask people what was my next thought, and they'll
say you wanted to go use No, my next thought
was I'll be at the six o'clock twelve step meeting.
And that's what I did. And there's a lot more
to it. But my son died on my twenty one
month sobriety date. The newspaper was doing a big article
on me because that following Thursday, I was doing a
big narca and training event and the reporter called me
(14:23):
and said, Tim, I'm going to cancel the story. I said, no,
you're not. She said You're not going through with the event,
are you? I said absolutely. I laid my son to
rest on Wednesday. I did the event on Thursday and
in the paper it said anti heroin crusader lose this
on to overdose. Unfortunately, in my son's passing, Nick really
instilled what I do today. I can't change the past.
(14:46):
I can't change anything I did. All I can do
is take this pain, my thirty years of in and
out of addiction and use it for a positive to
benefit people today. And I've assisted over three thousand people
into treatment. My full time job, I worked for a
treatment center out of Florida, Transformations in Delray Beach. I
speak all over the country. This is my life. Seven
(15:10):
since Nick Paths, I buried a hundred and seventeen people
with me. Tim Ryan A and E's Dopeman advisor to
rehab dot Com, Nanette Sosa, Dr William Moroney and Mark Tate,
high profile lawyer suing drug companies. Let me just pause
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(18:02):
opioid treatment expert. Dr Maroney, You and I have very
very similar beliefs. When I'm listening to Tim Ryan from
A and E's Dopeman from rehab dot Com, I'm thinking
about how so many people would be angry at him,
blame him for his son's death, find fault with him.
But you know, I'm convinced that those that are broken
(18:26):
the most are used the most to do good things.
So anyone listening, if you think you are beyond healing
and beyond repair and beyond doing anything with your life,
please hear the words of Tim Ryan. Dr Maroney. What
(18:48):
happens when you are on an opioid? How does it
take over your whole life? How does it suddenly? How
is it okay? Your son comes in and gives you
a bag of heroin and you're okay with that? Which
you have to understand is at the level that you're using.
If you don't get enough, you get sick. And what
drives you back is not necessarily the need to get high,
(19:10):
but you have to stop getting sick. And that's what
everybody else in America doesn't understand about how the brain
has been rewired in these people, and the number of
milligrams they continue to need to not get sick goes up,
and they try to do enough drug to stop getting sick.
But what we know, it's almost like there's this third wave.
(19:33):
I talked about prescription drugs. That was the first wave
of addictions. The second wave of addictions is the onset
of heroin into our culture at large volumes four or
five years ago. The third wave, which is probably starting
like sometime last year, is the introduction of fentanyl alone
and fentanyl in the heroin. People are trying to get
(19:55):
back to just not being sick, but it's clear that
fentanyl and heroin are changing the American landscape forever. And
all the doctors are ill equipped, but just not enough
addiction doctors to help. Hospitals are inaccurately trained, and the
governments can't catch up with this because it's exploding. He's
(20:16):
trying to just not get sick and what we need
to do. I have a book that clearly outlines how
heroin and fentnill are exploding and the only answer are
you talking about American arcams? That's Dr William Maroney's book.
It's one of the many ways Dr Maroney is fighting
(20:37):
the opioid crisis. Right now. To anyone that needs help,
now dial eight hundred to seven three eight to five,
eight hundred. We've got to educate families to fireproof themselves.
Eight hundred to seven three eight to five five, Tim Ryan,
any dopeman, could you tell me? Because I have never
(21:00):
used a drug um an illegal drug. When you take heroin,
what ceiling goes through your body? So I never glamorized
heroin used But the way I will explain it, I
was over a year clean and sober when I tried heroin.
I was going to twelve Step meetings, but I liked
(21:20):
the sponsor myself, and I thought I could get sober
through Osmoses. I I did it my way, and I
took a guy to Chicago to move out of his apartment.
His roommate pops out, what are you doing? I said,
I'm moving out, Joel? What are you doing, He said, heroin,
you want to try some. When I snorted that first
bag of heroin in two thousand and one, I thought, Wow,
this is what I'm looking for, this, this is this
(21:42):
is it. And for the first three weeks I did
a bag or two a day. I was able to work.
I thought I had more energy. And then I ran
out and I got profusely sick and found out I
was dope sick, and and I never ran out. But
it's I mean, pain pills, cotton, all the things the
doctor mentioned are there to relieve your pain, but so quickly.
(22:05):
I mean, if I took a thousand people and put
them in an auditorium and locked the door and I
gave them all opiates for a week straight, every person
at the end of that week will be addicted opiates.
That's how powerful they are. And what's happening today is
this these younger generations, and it's sitting the older aren't
drinking beer. They're going right from weed to pain pills,
say heroin that quickly. I mean the youngest hean attict
(22:28):
I've worked with, is twelve years old. The oldest is
seventy eight. This affects everybody. Mark Tate is with me,
a lawyer who is actually suing the drug companies. Mark Tate,
you know, I really don't know how you do it.
You have so many cases, and you are a veteran lawyer,
very well respected. Mark. Tell me in a way that
(22:51):
we can all understand. Why are you suing drug companies?
Mark Tate, I'll tell you why. I fancy it's um.
It's a terrible story of what's happened, and it's all
about massive pharmaceutical companies and the power that they have
to shape the way Americans and the rest of the
world think, but especially in the United States and here, Uh,
(23:14):
First of all, we're one of two countries in the
entire world where drug manufacturers can market directly to the public.
And we see the ads all the time. Go ask
your doctor if you should take this drug, ask we
should take this drug. And so here the pharmaceutical industry
is touched on, you know, in part by Dr Moroney.
They contrived this notion number one, uh, that these drugs
(23:38):
are used to treat what is your fifth vital sign?
And number two then they said and came out with
and published in the American Journal of Medicine UM that
opioid medications were not addictive. And then the first we
need to get people out into the medical public, and
(23:59):
we're called bug reps or detailed reps, and those detailed
reps were trained to go to surgeons and say, listen,
what you really need is you need to be able
to perform your surgical interventions on your patients, and then
you need them to be pain free from that surgery,
completely pain free. And no OxyContin is not UH is
(24:22):
not addictive, and no hydro codone is not addictive, and
no fentnyl is not addictive. And so the reason that
they did that is the massive profits that they make
because you know, the cost of manufacturing these drugs is
very small in comparison to some other other drugs, and
so the profit margin is massive. And so I started
(24:43):
to see some time ago that some folks were trying
to do individual medical doctors for over prescribing, and those
lawsuits generally did not fail. So about a year and
a half two years ago, I, along with a former
partner of mine, approached Fulton County, Georgia, because they, like
Dr Moroney's area has its own public health department where
(25:04):
they incur great deals of cost directly related to the
opioid manufacturing of the opioid crisis, which was existing two
years ago. Well, what you're taking on a very very powerful,
very powerful adversary by suing drug companies with me, Mark
Tate kind of feels like a David and Goliath scenario.
Ninette Sosa, Crime Stories, investigative reporter, Nanette, why is it
(25:28):
being termed an epidemic a crisis? And I noticed that
the president just declared war on the opioid crisis. But
I recall, Nanette Sosa. When I first started as a
district attorney in inner City Atlanta, the elected D A.
Louis Layton sent me to the hill, in other words,
the Assembly the Georgia legislature to push anti crime issues,
(25:49):
and the politicians were forever making this proclamation and that
law and this law. But then they wouldn't give in
any money, so the laws meant nothing. I mean, I
could order somebody to drug rehab every day of the week,
but without a drug rehab facility, there were not enough beds,
so they would sit in jail for a year waiting
(26:09):
their time will be done. They get out without ever
getting rehab. So when you put a law on the books.
That's a joke. That means nothing unless you give it
the money the nets. So so, why what are the stats?
Why is it being called an opioid epidemic a crisis
In the US, it's called an epidemic because it's been
(26:30):
so overprescribed by physicians for a while. Beginning in the nineties,
there was an under prescription problem. People um complained. So
because of that, regulators became involved and said, well, let's
loosen these regulations so physicians can prescribe more pain, you know,
pain pills, and so as a result, users then became
(26:52):
addicted after being prescribed. Today, people who are using or
have been prescribed massive amount of opioids for their pain
no longer get prescriptions. Now they're hitting the streets and
using it illegally. Dr William Moroney, let's talk about statistics.
Why is it being called a crisis an epidemic? Explained
that to me, here's the number one reason why the
(27:14):
numbers are going up so fast. In two thousand fifteen,
there were fifty two thousand, four hundred and four overdoses.
In two thousand sixteen, CNN, the CDC, and The New
York Times quoted sixty four thousand opioid overdose deaths. I
project in my book American Narcand for two thousand seventeen,
(27:36):
we will have over seventy thousand, almost seventy nine thousand overdoses,
and by we will have over a hundred thousand overdoses
in America because the first wave, the second wave, and
the third wave are just happening so fast. It's outpacing
medical education, it's outpacing criminal justice. I'm listening to Dr
(27:58):
William Moroney, author of brand new book American Narcan Opioid Expert,
Tim Ryan, A and E's Dope Man with me Nanette Sosa,
Mark Tate, Tim Ryan. My husband had a very very
dear friend that he worked with for years and years
and years, and he had the apple of his eye
was his son. Okay. I don't know if you've ever
seen um the Harry Potter series, but I always think
(28:21):
of Cedric Diggory, who his father just you know, worshiped
his son and then his son dies and the pain
you see that reminds me of this father, this father's son,
my husband's friend, always great student, cross country track star
(28:41):
and some private school, I mean everything. You couldn't even
see this guy at the grocery store that I'm showing
you pictures of the son at this track made he
won this. He did that. His son tried heroin. Tim.
He tried heroin. After the first time he got addicted.
The father immediately sent him to the best addiction recovery
(29:02):
center he could find in the whole United States. He
got clean, he came back, he got back on track.
The next thing we heard, he died of an overdose.
He was seventeen, Tim seventeen. It's it's people you don't expect,
you know. It's people out on the street. It's junkies,
(29:23):
it's uh, the waitress at the waffle house. It's across
all races. Um, it's the rich white kid. It's everybody.
Tim Ryan, it's you. It's your son. He's dead because
of an overdose. Explain it to people that don't understand,
that have never used opioids. So you know, we have
(29:48):
to understand here, this is the new in drug. When
I'm dealing with kids or family members struggling. I wanted
to fit in the pressure. I just wanted to try it.
And if you try it that one time, that's it.
And as the doctor said from five years ago when
I was using too. Now it's not just heroin, it's fentinyl.
(30:08):
Fentnol is a thousand times stronger than pure heroin. Even
a lot of these pills that kids think they're buying
azan x bar it's crushed fent it's pear fentnyl. You know,
it's everywhere. We need much more education. And the thing
I hear from families, not my family. We live in
a good community. We go to church on Sunday. So
what you need to know who your friends are involved with,
(30:31):
be into their technology. Disaffects everyone. The big misconception Nancy
is the heroin addict as a homeless person on the
corner with the needle in their arms. My son never
used the needle. He started heroin and his buddy gave
him a bar azan x. The average heroin addict today
is a twenty two year old white middle class female,
and it's twenty three year old white middle class male.
(30:54):
I am in the middle of central Illinois right now,
in farm communities. I'm speaking at three high school today.
One high school has four hundred students. They've had ten
overnose that's in this little community in the past year.
This is everywhere. It's not going away. It's getting much
much worse. But what else is happening to We need
(31:15):
laws like the Good Samaritan law. When I speak in
high schools all over the country, none of the students
know what the Good Samaritan laws. And the Good Samaritan laws.
If me and you were doing drugs together and you overnose,
I can call one. The police will com hopefully save
your life, take the drugs, leave. Nobody gets arrested. Because
when my son died, he was with his girlfriend and
(31:37):
two other friends. They knew Nick was overdosing, and they panicked.
They were afraid to call the police. They had drugs,
they didn't know about the law. They put him on
the sofa, he was breathing. They went in the basement,
did more drugs, forgot about him. Came up an hour
later and Nick was deading. You know, I've been reading
online and I want to go back to the Good Samaritan.
(31:57):
While you're talking about I read a story, worry about
story about a mom named Kim Farreneck. She lost her
daughter Dana to a drug o d Now listen to
Dana what she is on the high school swim team,
a cheerleader in junior high and high school, her whole
life ahead of her. She got into a cycle of
(32:20):
addiction treatment relapse, addiction treatment relapse. She got her straight
out of one relapse and took her on a vacation
to Wildwood. And this is the part that broke my heart.
She says. I remember this trip like it was yesterday,
because for that week I felt like I had my
daughter back. But right after coming back home, she found
(32:41):
her daughter face down, cold in blue. She died of
an opioid overdose. She is pushing an laxon. Dr Maroney,
what is an Laxonlaxon is the generic name for one
of the brands, Narcan. It's been out for forty years.
(33:02):
Surgery and the emergency room have used the lock zone
as an injectable to reverse anesthesia and overdose in the hospital.
We need to change the model. We need to put
generic Nloxo or branded Narcan in every home in America
(33:22):
to prevent children, parents and spouses from dying. We have
to change that model. It must be in every house.
And this is so obvious because opioids have run rampant
and the translation to heroin is transparent. It's it's just
(33:43):
so easy. If you're taking high doses of opioids, it's
simple to crush them and check them or snort them.
And as soon as you do that, there's no difference
than heroin. So people make that transfer. And the only
way we're going to stop people from dying is putting
the lock zone or narcan in the homes. We have
to add to keep people with books and movies and videos.
You know, I wanna talk about the fact that Tim Ryan,
(34:06):
so often people get addicted or they try heroin or
for the first time because it's offered by a friend
that they know or a family member. That's that's how
they get into it. Tim, I I agree and with
with prescription pain pills. Fifty of the kids that get
started on pain pills get them from a family member
(34:28):
or a friend. So so Johnny on the track team
hurts his knee and dad says, well, you know what,
I've got some Viking in from when I had my
back surgery. Take a few of these or these parents
are having unused prescriptions left in their medicine cabinets. Get
rid of them. Because Johnny comes over to cut your
lawn and says, hey, Nancy can I use your bathroom?
(34:49):
Sure you can, Johnny. He goes in. He's rifling through
your cabinet, taking all your unused prescription pain meds and
and Narcan is essential. But I want to take Narcan
a step further. It's a tool to save a life.
But what's happening. I just had a kid overdose Saturday night.
His mother called me. The paramedics came, they revived him,
(35:10):
he refused to go to the hospital, and they just left.
They didn't bring in any peer recovery supports specialists to
talk to this kid. Twelve hours later, he overdosed again.
See every time I overdosed. As soon as I got clarity,
I was out of the hospital. I would like to
see a law put into place whereof someone overdoses and
it is brought back by narcan through a paramedic or
(35:32):
law enforcement, they're remanded into treatment on the spot. If
they did not have that drug, they would be dead,
and we're letting them walk out of the hospital three
hours later. It's so important what he just said, because
we do not let people have oh heart attacks at
home and say I'm not going to go to the hospital.
I want to pause and thank our partners making our
(35:55):
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(37:43):
want to talk parent to parent. You know, we all
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the Internet. That's not the way we grew up. But
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I mean, I certainly don't want my children researching the
(38:49):
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(39:32):
Mark Tait is a high profile lawyer actually suing the
drug companies. Mark take do you really think you've got
a chance. I think we have a chance because all
of the things that both Tim and Dr Maroney have
been talking about that are necessary and have become necessary
to handle all of the things that are doing on
because of the intentional misconduct with the pharmaceutical companies and
(39:55):
their distributors. Those are the costs that we're talking about,
and those costs extend even to law enforcement that counties
and cities and states are bearing regarding every officer now
having to carry narcian, every first responder having to carry narcian,
all of these issues about overdoses. We have instances in
which counties have have had to expand their corners units
(40:20):
in order to house the bodies of overdose victims. In
places and counties that are fortunate enough to have their
own county public health systems, huge costs are being borne
by that taxpayers ultimately in order to essentially subsidize the
vast profits of companies like a Mari source Bergen and
Cardinal Health and Purdue Pharma and Jansen Pharmaceutical, and all
(40:44):
of these companies are subjected to practices that are uniform
in the country, acts that are uniform in the country
Controlled Substances Act and Pharmaceutical Practices Act. But the issue
is and what we will overcome because of finally, community
is tired of bearing costs? Is what happened to the
first lawsuit you filed to Fulton County. One of the
defendants came to Fulton County and said, we want to
(41:05):
open a distributorship here, that there's this lawsuit pending. That
company forced Fulton County to dismiss their first lawsuit. Fulton
County finally said, no, we're spending too much money taking
care of overdosing people and outfitting our task force task
force and indigent burials that we're going to refile, and
that lawsuit is now pending again. And they're not the
(41:27):
only one, Nanasa, So that's certainly a fine. How do
you do that the government is spending too much money
on indigent burials because of overdoses. In other words, so
many people are oding. They don't have enough money to
pay for their burials. Yes, yes, and yes and no.
And is that the true crux of the problem. And
I'm going to give you an example, Nancy in Barnstable
(41:49):
over in Cape Cod Barnstable Jail, when they release their
inmates who are addicts, they are now providing them with
vivitral injections. It's an an abuse in this into required therapy.
And these inmates, even though they've served their time and
have been released and their drug addicts, they are now
giving them VIVIOTL. Vivotal is not cheap twelve hundred fifteen
(42:11):
hundred bucks in injection. I'm sure the jail is getting
a break on the cost. I don't know about that,
but it's expensive. So this is one community that's taking
their uh people who are coming out of jails who
are drug addicts and trying to rehab them. On the
flip side, people who are taking Vivotal have last I've
(42:32):
talked to them where they said, yeah, but we can
just use another substitute drug or use some alcohol, and
we know how to plan it out just to make
it under the wire of pretending that we're clean and
sober when they're not. So it's a double edged sword there.
And as far as varying UH, you know, indigent people
and so forth, a lot of the communities UM in
(42:53):
the lawsuits, I'm sure that's just take law firm. They
want the communities want to recoup the cost that they're
spending extra on emergency services and e er and e
er costs. So it's I don't think that's you don't
think what's why what? But I don't think. I don't
think the community saying about indigence indigent deaths is one
(43:15):
reason why they cannot invest in UH diversion programs. I
think what they're saying is that they're following the lawsuit
because the expense of opioid O d s has become astronomical.
Tim Ryan A and Ees Dopeman, I'm following up on
something to net Social said, And I've been reading so
many true life stories online UM and pairing them with
(43:39):
the people I worked with when I was prosecuting what
you have to do to break free of this? And
one thing is U no alcohol, no smoking, nothing, Well,
why is it so important that you break ties with
old friends? Change your phone number, no alcohol, smoking nothing,
Admit your mistakes and go to KNARC on its anonymous meetings.
(44:01):
Why are those steps so important? Because you have to
understand what the big misconception families have is I sent
my loved one to treatment. A the average opiate addict
goes to treatment six times. So if we and that's
why you know I'm with rehab dot Com. I work
for a treatment center because I want people to come
(44:22):
once and and hopefully grasp everything but getting away the substances.
You gotta work with the underlining trauma. But then living
recovery is a whole different gamut. We need people going
into long term, structured sober living communities. They have to
learn to put recovery first. Maybe in five years clean
and sober, I still attend four twelve step meetings a week.
(44:44):
I still have a sponsor, and I always sponsor at
least one person. My job, my speaking events right in
the book, everything else I do is my career. My
recovery is a complete lifestyle. You need to change people,
places and things. And I'll go back to my son
Nick that died. We always had great insurance. We I
didn't know I could send my son out of state
(45:06):
and put him in a long term ninety day program.
He would do three weeks, he's out the door to
the same people, places and things. His chances of success
were swimmed in none. In hindsight, I would have done
things totally different, Um, and that's what I'm trying to
do now. But you mean, what would you have done differently,
Tim Ryan, I would have got Nick on a plane
(45:26):
and I would send him down to Florida in a minute,
or send him to a long term treatment program like
my program, Transformation Treatment Center, which is my employer. I
can put someone in there with good insurance on a
ninety day structured program and it's gender specific. He could
do twelve sep bates. He can do Christian bas Well.
I noticed the same thing Tim, that when people would
(45:48):
get out of jail, they just go back because I
guess they don't know what else to do. They just
go back to the same people they knew before, and
history repeats itself. But I want to ask to keep
about the other issues. Why is it so important that
you don't have any alcohol, smoking, nothing. Why the addicts
say that while you have to understand, once you've went
(46:09):
into the opiate world, there's no going back. So you
get people that, UM get on vivatral and they might
not have the cravings for opiates, but that's another tool.
You still need to be loving, living recovery. But if
I go back to smoking some weed drinking, I will
ultimately go back to my drug of choice. If you
sober up a horse seek, what do you have? You
(46:30):
have a sober thief. So you need to teach that
person how to live life without altering their mind. And
what I asked people is what's so wrong with you
that you need to be altered? You need to get
to the underlining clauses and conditions. Um And I looked
at my life and I had a lot of trauma.
I was adopted. I had an older brother that was
a narcissist and beat me up all the time. I
(46:51):
had learning disabilities. I was molested by a female baby
center at twelve. Boom. There's all my trauma that was
never dealt with. Drugs and alcohol became my solution. Why
is it? Tim Ryan with A and E's Dopeman Also
with me, William Dr William Moroney, author of American Narcan
mark Tate, high profile lawyers suing drug companies, and investigative
(47:14):
reporter for crime stories. Ninette Sosa. Why is it so important,
Tim Ryan, that you change your phone number and break
ties with all of your older friends. That's hard to do, Tim, Well,
it is. And I'm gonna go back to the people
in prison or or county jails. Here's the problem. You
take me an opiate addict or an addict in general,
and lock me in jail for two years, give me
(47:37):
no tools, no resources, and release me within thirty days.
I'm gonna be back to use. And that's what we do.
Where creatures a habit in our institutions, we meet need
more twelve step based, Christian based smart recovery, refuge recovery
therapeutic communities within the jail. We need drug pods so
people can start working on themselves why they're incarcerated, and
(48:00):
we need wrap around services for when they're getting out.
The one key factor that people don't have is jobs.
They can't get a job because they're a felon. Now, um,
they might not have graduated high school and they have
no opportunity. They have nothing to look forward to, and
they go back to what they know. But you've got
to change every aspect of your life. Of the people
(48:22):
I associate with our in recovery. I have no business
being around people that I don't go hang out at bars,
I don't go to parties. I just have no business
doing it. But it took me a long time to
want to change that. And you don't have to go
to the depths I went to at forty four years old,
getting sentenced to seven years in prison. And I want
families to know. And I'm not doing it to plug
(48:43):
my book, but if you've got a family member struggling,
go to Amazon get my book A Man in Recovery
From Dope to Hope by Kim Ryan, and you will
understand why that person does what they do because I
explain everything in there, and it's a tool for people
getting sober and active addiction or family members that have
a loved one strong one. I want to point out
(49:04):
the statistic that Dr William Moroney first told me, author
of American Narkin. Drug overdoses into last year killed more
Americans then the entire wars in Vietnam and Iraq. The
opioid epidemic last year killed more Americans then the entire
(49:30):
wars in Vietnam and Iraq. I want to take this
moment and thank our partner for making our program possible today,
it's super Beats. Well, if you're like me, you don't
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(49:52):
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Working full time and raising the twins, I need energy.
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(50:14):
can do more every day, and you recover more quickly
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joining us and listening today. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing up.
Good bye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph
Channel one thirty two. Last year, synthetic opioids like Fintonel
surpassed heroin as the leading cause of drug overdose deaths.
Or people are dying from scription peals and the are
from motor vehicle collectident and the number of overdose deaths
caused by synthetic opioids has more than doubled from These
(00:26):
are people, These are real people, and they're dying out
because nobody seems to care anymore. Altogether, the number of
opioid overdose deaths surpassed the number of deaths caused by
the aids of Adenna cut its peak. In Sulton County,
leaders along with representatives from a private law firm, are
suing twelve manufacturers and distributors of opioid based medication. They
say the company's downplay at the risks associated with the drug.
(00:50):
We were all stunned to see recent images and these
were not doctored. They were not photoshopped, because, believe me,
I investigated it of a couple, nice car, look like
a suburban mom and dad passed out at the wheel.
At first I thought I was seeing an image of
some kind of a hit and run or a crash
(01:11):
or a single car incident. It wasn't. There were children
in the back seat. They were looking at Mommy and
daddy passed out on opioid's heroine. And that photo, that
one image circulated around the world. We are in the
(01:31):
middle of an opioid crisis and opioid epidemic. Other countries
are looking at us saying, look, America has an opioid epidemic.
Look at the US. What how did we get in
this spot? And I remember prosecuting cases and there would
(01:51):
be one guy after the next guy, after a woman,
after a stock broker, after a banker, or after a
soccer mom coming into court with heroin. I couldn't believe it.
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with me. With me now. Mark Tate, lawyer representing
government suing drug companies. That's what it's come to. Dr
(02:15):
William Moroney, opioid treatment expert Nanette Sosa, Crime Stories contributing
reporter and Tim Ryan a and ease quote dope man. Okay,
I don't know how I feel about that, dopeman and
advisor to rehab dot Com, Tim Ryan, I'm starting with you.
You we're an addict. How did you get clean? I
(02:40):
unfortunately got clean, being sentenced to seven years in the
Illinois Department at Corrections. As you were just talking. I
was that middle class father. I was a very successful businessman.
I had an office in the Wrigley Building in downtown
Chicago on Michigan Avenue. Like I made a very good living,
but I also struggled with heroin and and had a
(03:00):
five dollar a day habit. I overdose why driving, hit
two cars, put four people in the hospital, one being
a nine month old baby. Wait wait, wait, wait, wait,
wait wait wait. Tim Ryan with me a and he's
dope man, advisor to rehab dot Com. And I know
right now I can't see Dr William Roney, my friend
(03:20):
in colleague, but I know he is just shaking his head.
Tim Ryan, you did what? I overdoseed why driving? I
hit two cars. I put four people in the hospital.
I was clinically dead on the scene. It took uh
five doses of Narcan to bring me back. Um. I
(03:41):
ultimately started fighting my case. And and here's where it
gets deeper, because unless you live in the world of addiction,
you're gonna shake your head now all my family knows.
Dad's a heroin addict, and I had tried some boxing
in the early two thousands and methodone. I wasn't ready
to get sober. In the midst of fighting my case,
I know I'm going to prison. And about three months
(04:03):
into fighting my case, I'm profusely dope sick. And when
you don't have opiates, you're hot, you're cold. It's like
having the flu times a thousand. I'm taking a hot
bath in My seventeen year old son walks in. He said,
what's wrong, Pops? And I said, what do you think, Nick,
I'm dope sick. And he said, not anymore, Dad, Today's
you're lucky day. And he threw two bags of heroin
on the counter. Now with Nick, I was not a father,
(04:26):
I was a friend. I was the father that let
my son and his buddy smoke a little weed, drink
a little beer. And when Nick did that, I got
out of the top and I did those two bags,
and and instantly I felt better. And I went my
son's room and I said, Nick, what are you doing?
He said, don't worry, Dad, I'm just selling a little bit.
I said, Nick, you need to shut this down. Immediately,
(04:49):
you know what this drug gets done to me. And
my son looked right at me and he said, well, Dad,
you're a successful drug addict. And I said, why would
you say that. We always got a nice house, you
have an office in the Wrigley Building, make a good living.
In my son's delusional mind, he thought I was successful
because I functioned. Three months later, my son and I
were doing heroin together. That's how we bonded. Tim Wait
(05:11):
a minute, wait wait wait, wait, wait wait wait, it's
hurting me so bad. I mean, I can tell you've
told the story a hundred times spent. I'm hearing it
for the first time, and I can hardly take it
in because I'm thinking about, you know, every night when
I run back to the back and try to take
a quick bath. In fact, it's so funny, you know,
(05:33):
Dr Maroney. You know my children, they're so used to
me going so fast, they actually thought the name of
a shower was a quick shower. They didn't know you
could take a shower. They grew up here and me go,
I'm gonna take a quick shower. And they grew up
and they go, my mom, and go take a quick shower.
They don't even know. I'm so used to going ninety
miles an hour, so when I'm back there, they always
(05:55):
are coming in and out and talking and showing me
something or whatever they're doing. I'm just imagining one of
my little babies thrown down two bags of heroin. I mean,
tim with me a and ease quote dope Man Advisor
rehab dot Com telling the story. Dr Maroney, I mean
to him, that's normal to me. I'm actually crying right now.
(06:18):
I just to even think of it, Dr Moroney, How
how did we How did we get here? Doctor? There's
been a shift in the new normal, and you may
be uncomfortable with it, but became evident through medical mismanagement.
The proper way to evaluate pain was interfered with by
(06:40):
non governmental organizations, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and they pushed
medications into the public through channels education, medical societies, and
opioids became very common in our society. Okay, spake English.
(07:01):
When you say opioids, are you talking about oxyconton? Well,
what do you mean norco vicodin? Oxycon? I went to
I went tool, not denography oxy. I'm still on oxycodon. Okay, oxyconton?
You said something about nor Nook vicodin. Don't even try
(07:23):
to take notes. Okay, I'm putting go ahead. All you
gotta know is pain pills got out of control because
there was an organization called the Joint Commission on Hospital
Accreditation that forced this concept of pain being a fifth
vital sign down people's throats, and some of the governments
(07:44):
in the States and the hospitals and the medical schools said, hey,
this is a good idea, and they didn't train doctors
are providers how to adequately assess pain and treat it.
Is that what happened to Tim Ryan, because it sounds
to me like it was a bad of heroin, not
at oxycont Now when you're saying, Dr Moroney, you're calling
off all these pharmaceutical names, I think I know what
(08:07):
you're talking about. You're talking about what blues kickers, O
c oxy Hillbilly heroin. Now those are the names I know.
I'm very familiar with those. Well that's what they call
it down in Atlanta. Uh huh. But here's what happens.
And when people start getting kicked off, they moved heroin
with a blink of an eye. When when people no
longer have access to the pharmaceutical medication that was pushed
(08:30):
on them. In a blink of an eye. They transfer
because their their minds have been rewired. They don't want
to be sick, and starting heroin is just the next
step and that's the new normal. So Tim Ryan, addicts
may crush peels before swallowing or snorting them, dissolve pills
(08:52):
and water inject them, get multiple prescriptions for narcotics from
different doctors, go to the emergency room to get more
peals when they run out, request emergency refills for medication,
drink alcohol, or use sentence or other pain killers with
their prescription. Uh, take prescription painkillers without a prescription, just
for any reason. If you know someone that's doing these
(09:14):
things and more, you've got a problem. Tim Ryan any
dopeman advisor rehab dot Com. I want to get back
to that moment that you thought it was normal it
was okay for your son to come in with two
bags of heroin. I would completely nut up and burn
the house down. Okay, I don't even know what I
would do. Uh what happens then? So you have to understand,
(09:39):
you know, I'm I'm when you're and I will never
justify because ultimately, my son died and I will be
the first to admit I helped kill my own son,
and I have to live with that for the rest
of my life. I didn't start Nick on heroin, but
he followed in my footsteps and and I own that.
But when I was in that bath profusely sick, and
(10:01):
he said, Dad, I've got two bags of heroin. It
was good. I can do those. You're not trying to
get high, I'm just trying to feel normal. And within
two minutes I felt normal. And then ultimately Nick and
I started using. And then I was sentenced to seven
years in prison. And when I went to prison, I
left my wife high and dry, our house and foreclosure.
(10:24):
My addiction caused damage to everyone near and dear to me,
and by the grace of God, I was able to
get into Sheridan Correctional Center in Illinois. There's twenty eight
prisons in Illinois. Two of them have a therapeutic community
run through West Carre and I got into that. I
did thirteen and a half months in that prison. My
wife divorced me, I lost our house and foreclosure. I
(10:45):
displaced my four kids and my wife. My son was
an active addiction. But all I did was plugged into recovery.
My cellmate night eighteen hours a day, and that sell
studied the Big Book of Alcoholics, Anonymous, the na he said,
texts of Bible, read hundreds of books. I wrote the
business plan for the foundation I run today in that
(11:06):
prison cell. When I walked out, Shannon, my former better half,
picked me up. She had a little town house set
up for me in downtown Naperville. Because I am forty
nine years old today, and as someone was saying earlier,
Dr Moroney, looks, I don't have a driver's license. I
have not had a driver's license in sixteen years due
to my driving. No revolts driving and getting d uise.
(11:29):
But the good thing is I have a full time
driver in a company car. And my full time driver
is my my nineteen year old son. So I get
the honor and privilege of working with my son every day,
speaking in schools too, and everything we do. But I
got out of prison. Shannon brought Nickmack, Tim Ryan any
Dopeman advisor rehab dot com. You're you're Jackie and I
(11:53):
own the studio. We can't take it in. You're going
so fast this this story I mean every sentence as
a whole knee. You think, so your wife that divorced you, Yeah,
while you were behind bars getting yourself together, she got
you a town house to move into while you're in jail.
And my mother did. And even though Shannon divorced me,
(12:13):
she still brought two of the kids to visit me
every two weeks. She was my biggest supporter. And I
asked her, I said, why did you not give up
on me? She said, Tim, when you went to prison,
my heart was broken. Then it got to be a
task to come and see you. Then I was excited
that you were getting out because I had a little
bit of hope that you might turn your life around.
(12:34):
And I did. I I started at the support groups,
so I have the families and persons struggling coming At
the same time, I set up my foundation. I stumbled
into working for a treatment center doing outreach. And then
on my nineteenth sobriety day, my twenty year old son
Nick was back in treatment for the fifth or sixth time,
and I went to meet with Nick and he said, Dad,
(12:55):
we're going to speak all over the country. We got
such a crazy story, I said, Nick, I would want
nothing more than that, but you need to get into recovery.
Don't worry, Dad, I will. He got out. Thirty days later,
he's back in Cook County jail, Sellem bogus Fells trying
to buy heroin. He did forty five days he got out.
Shannon picked him up, took him to lunch and said, Nick,
(13:17):
we're done. You're not coming to my house. You're not
coming to dad's because all you do is light, cheat
and steel. Don't worry. I got it all figured out.
Five days out of jail, I called Nick and I said, Nick,
this is three and a half years ago. I said, Nick,
come to my house and get some nark in. I
was doing a big training event the following week. We
started handing it out our support groups and he said, Dad,
(13:37):
I promise you I'm not on that ps anymore. And
I believed him. Two days later, Shannon called me at
six in the morning, said, Nick overdose. I'm coming to
pick you up. We shot to Hinsdale Hospital. We ran
into the emergency room, Jim and Shannon ryan to see
her son Nick. He overdosed, and thirty seconds later the
chaplain walked out. I knew my son was dead, and
(14:00):
I'll ask people what was my next thought, and they'll
say you wanted to go use No, my next thought
was I'll be at the six o'clock twelve step meeting.
And that's what I did. And there's a lot more
to it. But my son died on my twenty one
month sobriety date. The newspaper was doing a big article
on me because that following Thursday, I was doing a
big narca and training event and the reporter called me
(14:23):
and said, Tim, I'm going to cancel the story. I said, no,
you're not. She said You're not going through with the event,
are you? I said absolutely. I laid my son to
rest on Wednesday. I did the event on Thursday and
in the paper it said anti heroin crusader lose this
on to overdose. Unfortunately, in my son's passing, Nick really
instilled what I do today. I can't change the past.
(14:46):
I can't change anything I did. All I can do
is take this pain, my thirty years of in and
out of addiction and use it for a positive to
benefit people today. And I've assisted over three thousand people
into treatment. My full time job, I worked for a
treatment center out of Florida, Transformations in Delray Beach. I
speak all over the country. This is my life. Seven
(15:10):
since Nick Paths, I buried a hundred and seventeen people
with me. Tim Ryan A and E's Dopeman advisor to
rehab dot Com, Nanette Sosa, Dr William Moroney and Mark Tate,
high profile lawyer suing drug companies. Let me just pause
and thank our partner making today's very important program possible.
(15:32):
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keyword grace. We're ready to help with me. Dr William Maroney,
(18:02):
opioid treatment expert. Dr Maroney, You and I have very
very similar beliefs. When I'm listening to Tim Ryan from
A and E's Dopeman from rehab dot Com, I'm thinking
about how so many people would be angry at him,
blame him for his son's death, find fault with him.
But you know, I'm convinced that those that are broken
(18:26):
the most are used the most to do good things.
So anyone listening, if you think you are beyond healing
and beyond repair and beyond doing anything with your life,
please hear the words of Tim Ryan. Dr Maroney. What
(18:48):
happens when you are on an opioid? How does it
take over your whole life? How does it suddenly? How
is it okay? Your son comes in and gives you
a bag of heroin and you're okay with that? Which
you have to understand is at the level that you're using.
If you don't get enough, you get sick. And what
drives you back is not necessarily the need to get high,
(19:10):
but you have to stop getting sick. And that's what
everybody else in America doesn't understand about how the brain
has been rewired in these people, and the number of
milligrams they continue to need to not get sick goes up,
and they try to do enough drug to stop getting sick.
But what we know, it's almost like there's this third wave.
(19:33):
I talked about prescription drugs. That was the first wave
of addictions. The second wave of addictions is the onset
of heroin into our culture at large volumes four or
five years ago. The third wave, which is probably starting
like sometime last year, is the introduction of fentanyl alone
and fentanyl in the heroin. People are trying to get
(19:55):
back to just not being sick, but it's clear that
fentanyl and heroin are changing the American landscape forever. And
all the doctors are ill equipped, but just not enough
addiction doctors to help. Hospitals are inaccurately trained, and the
governments can't catch up with this because it's exploding. He's
(20:16):
trying to just not get sick and what we need
to do. I have a book that clearly outlines how
heroin and fentnill are exploding and the only answer are
you talking about American arcams? That's Dr William Maroney's book.
It's one of the many ways Dr Maroney is fighting
(20:37):
the opioid crisis. Right now. To anyone that needs help,
now dial eight hundred to seven three eight to five,
eight hundred. We've got to educate families to fireproof themselves.
Eight hundred to seven three eight to five five, Tim Ryan,
any dopeman, could you tell me? Because I have never
(21:00):
used a drug um an illegal drug. When you take heroin,
what ceiling goes through your body? So I never glamorized
heroin used But the way I will explain it, I
was over a year clean and sober when I tried heroin.
I was going to twelve Step meetings, but I liked
(21:20):
the sponsor myself, and I thought I could get sober
through Osmoses. I I did it my way, and I
took a guy to Chicago to move out of his apartment.
His roommate pops out, what are you doing? I said,
I'm moving out, Joel? What are you doing, He said, heroin,
you want to try some. When I snorted that first
bag of heroin in two thousand and one, I thought, Wow,
this is what I'm looking for, this, this is this
(21:42):
is it. And for the first three weeks I did
a bag or two a day. I was able to work.
I thought I had more energy. And then I ran
out and I got profusely sick and found out I
was dope sick, and and I never ran out. But
it's I mean, pain pills, cotton, all the things the
doctor mentioned are there to relieve your pain, but so quickly.
(22:05):
I mean, if I took a thousand people and put
them in an auditorium and locked the door and I
gave them all opiates for a week straight, every person
at the end of that week will be addicted opiates.
That's how powerful they are. And what's happening today is
this these younger generations, and it's sitting the older aren't
drinking beer. They're going right from weed to pain pills,
say heroin that quickly. I mean the youngest hean attict
(22:28):
I've worked with, is twelve years old. The oldest is
seventy eight. This affects everybody. Mark Tate is with me,
a lawyer who is actually suing the drug companies. Mark Tate,
you know, I really don't know how you do it.
You have so many cases, and you are a veteran lawyer,
very well respected. Mark. Tell me in a way that
(22:51):
we can all understand. Why are you suing drug companies?
Mark Tate, I'll tell you why. I fancy it's um.
It's a terrible story of what's happened, and it's all
about massive pharmaceutical companies and the power that they have
to shape the way Americans and the rest of the
world think, but especially in the United States and here, Uh,
(23:14):
First of all, we're one of two countries in the
entire world where drug manufacturers can market directly to the public.
And we see the ads all the time. Go ask
your doctor if you should take this drug, ask we
should take this drug. And so here the pharmaceutical industry
is touched on, you know, in part by Dr Moroney.
They contrived this notion number one, uh, that these drugs
(23:38):
are used to treat what is your fifth vital sign?
And number two then they said and came out with
and published in the American Journal of Medicine UM that
opioid medications were not addictive. And then the first we
need to get people out into the medical public, and
(23:59):
we're called bug reps or detailed reps, and those detailed
reps were trained to go to surgeons and say, listen,
what you really need is you need to be able
to perform your surgical interventions on your patients, and then
you need them to be pain free from that surgery,
completely pain free. And no OxyContin is not UH is
(24:22):
not addictive, and no hydro codone is not addictive, and
no fentnyl is not addictive. And so the reason that
they did that is the massive profits that they make
because you know, the cost of manufacturing these drugs is
very small in comparison to some other other drugs, and
so the profit margin is massive. And so I started
(24:43):
to see some time ago that some folks were trying
to do individual medical doctors for over prescribing, and those
lawsuits generally did not fail. So about a year and
a half two years ago, I, along with a former
partner of mine, approached Fulton County, Georgia, because they, like
Dr Moroney's area has its own public health department where
(25:04):
they incur great deals of cost directly related to the
opioid manufacturing of the opioid crisis, which was existing two
years ago. Well, what you're taking on a very very powerful,
very powerful adversary by suing drug companies with me, Mark
Tate kind of feels like a David and Goliath scenario.
Ninette Sosa, Crime Stories, investigative reporter, Nanette, why is it
(25:28):
being termed an epidemic a crisis? And I noticed that
the president just declared war on the opioid crisis. But
I recall, Nanette Sosa. When I first started as a
district attorney in inner City Atlanta, the elected D A.
Louis Layton sent me to the hill, in other words,
the Assembly the Georgia legislature to push anti crime issues,
(25:49):
and the politicians were forever making this proclamation and that
law and this law. But then they wouldn't give in
any money, so the laws meant nothing. I mean, I
could order somebody to drug rehab every day of the week,
but without a drug rehab facility, there were not enough beds,
so they would sit in jail for a year waiting
(26:09):
their time will be done. They get out without ever
getting rehab. So when you put a law on the books.
That's a joke. That means nothing unless you give it
the money the nets. So so, why what are the stats?
Why is it being called an opioid epidemic a crisis
In the US, it's called an epidemic because it's been
(26:30):
so overprescribed by physicians for a while. Beginning in the nineties,
there was an under prescription problem. People um complained. So
because of that, regulators became involved and said, well, let's
loosen these regulations so physicians can prescribe more pain, you know,
pain pills, and so as a result, users then became
(26:52):
addicted after being prescribed. Today, people who are using or
have been prescribed massive amount of opioids for their pain
no longer get prescriptions. Now they're hitting the streets and
using it illegally. Dr William Moroney, let's talk about statistics.
Why is it being called a crisis an epidemic? Explained
that to me, here's the number one reason why the
(27:14):
numbers are going up so fast. In two thousand fifteen,
there were fifty two thousand, four hundred and four overdoses.
In two thousand sixteen, CNN, the CDC, and The New
York Times quoted sixty four thousand opioid overdose deaths. I
project in my book American Narcand for two thousand seventeen,
(27:36):
we will have over seventy thousand, almost seventy nine thousand overdoses,
and by we will have over a hundred thousand overdoses
in America because the first wave, the second wave, and
the third wave are just happening so fast. It's outpacing
medical education, it's outpacing criminal justice. I'm listening to Dr
(27:58):
William Moroney, author of brand new book American Narcan Opioid Expert,
Tim Ryan, A and E's Dope Man with me Nanette Sosa,
Mark Tate, Tim Ryan. My husband had a very very
dear friend that he worked with for years and years
and years, and he had the apple of his eye
was his son. Okay. I don't know if you've ever
seen um the Harry Potter series, but I always think
(28:21):
of Cedric Diggory, who his father just you know, worshiped
his son and then his son dies and the pain
you see that reminds me of this father, this father's son,
my husband's friend, always great student, cross country track star
(28:41):
and some private school, I mean everything. You couldn't even
see this guy at the grocery store that I'm showing
you pictures of the son at this track made he
won this. He did that. His son tried heroin. Tim.
He tried heroin. After the first time he got addicted.
The father immediately sent him to the best addiction recovery
(29:02):
center he could find in the whole United States. He
got clean, he came back, he got back on track.
The next thing we heard, he died of an overdose.
He was seventeen, Tim seventeen. It's it's people you don't expect,
you know. It's people out on the street. It's junkies,
(29:23):
it's uh, the waitress at the waffle house. It's across
all races. Um, it's the rich white kid. It's everybody.
Tim Ryan, it's you. It's your son. He's dead because
of an overdose. Explain it to people that don't understand,
that have never used opioids. So you know, we have
(29:48):
to understand here, this is the new in drug. When
I'm dealing with kids or family members struggling. I wanted
to fit in the pressure. I just wanted to try it.
And if you try it that one time, that's it.
And as the doctor said from five years ago when
I was using too. Now it's not just heroin, it's fentinyl.
(30:08):
Fentnol is a thousand times stronger than pure heroin. Even
a lot of these pills that kids think they're buying
azan x bar it's crushed fent it's pear fentnyl. You know,
it's everywhere. We need much more education. And the thing
I hear from families, not my family. We live in
a good community. We go to church on Sunday. So
what you need to know who your friends are involved with,
(30:31):
be into their technology. Disaffects everyone. The big misconception Nancy
is the heroin addict as a homeless person on the
corner with the needle in their arms. My son never
used the needle. He started heroin and his buddy gave
him a bar azan x. The average heroin addict today
is a twenty two year old white middle class female,
and it's twenty three year old white middle class male.
(30:54):
I am in the middle of central Illinois right now,
in farm communities. I'm speaking at three high school today.
One high school has four hundred students. They've had ten
overnose that's in this little community in the past year.
This is everywhere. It's not going away. It's getting much
much worse. But what else is happening to We need
(31:15):
laws like the Good Samaritan law. When I speak in
high schools all over the country, none of the students
know what the Good Samaritan laws. And the Good Samaritan laws.
If me and you were doing drugs together and you overnose,
I can call one. The police will com hopefully save
your life, take the drugs, leave. Nobody gets arrested. Because
when my son died, he was with his girlfriend and
(31:37):
two other friends. They knew Nick was overdosing, and they panicked.
They were afraid to call the police. They had drugs,
they didn't know about the law. They put him on
the sofa, he was breathing. They went in the basement,
did more drugs, forgot about him. Came up an hour
later and Nick was deading. You know, I've been reading
online and I want to go back to the Good Samaritan.
(31:57):
While you're talking about I read a story, worry about
story about a mom named Kim Farreneck. She lost her
daughter Dana to a drug o d Now listen to
Dana what she is on the high school swim team,
a cheerleader in junior high and high school, her whole
life ahead of her. She got into a cycle of
(32:20):
addiction treatment relapse, addiction treatment relapse. She got her straight
out of one relapse and took her on a vacation
to Wildwood. And this is the part that broke my heart.
She says. I remember this trip like it was yesterday,
because for that week I felt like I had my
daughter back. But right after coming back home, she found
(32:41):
her daughter face down, cold in blue. She died of
an opioid overdose. She is pushing an laxon. Dr Maroney,
what is an Laxonlaxon is the generic name for one
of the brands, Narcan. It's been out for forty years.
(33:02):
Surgery and the emergency room have used the lock zone
as an injectable to reverse anesthesia and overdose in the hospital.
We need to change the model. We need to put
generic Nloxo or branded Narcan in every home in America
(33:22):
to prevent children, parents and spouses from dying. We have
to change that model. It must be in every house.
And this is so obvious because opioids have run rampant
and the translation to heroin is transparent. It's it's just
(33:43):
so easy. If you're taking high doses of opioids, it's
simple to crush them and check them or snort them.
And as soon as you do that, there's no difference
than heroin. So people make that transfer. And the only
way we're going to stop people from dying is putting
the lock zone or narcan in the homes. We have
to add to keep people with books and movies and videos.
You know, I wanna talk about the fact that Tim Ryan,
(34:06):
so often people get addicted or they try heroin or
for the first time because it's offered by a friend
that they know or a family member. That's that's how
they get into it. Tim, I I agree and with
with prescription pain pills. Fifty of the kids that get
started on pain pills get them from a family member
(34:28):
or a friend. So so Johnny on the track team
hurts his knee and dad says, well, you know what,
I've got some Viking in from when I had my
back surgery. Take a few of these or these parents
are having unused prescriptions left in their medicine cabinets. Get
rid of them. Because Johnny comes over to cut your
lawn and says, hey, Nancy can I use your bathroom?
(34:49):
Sure you can, Johnny. He goes in. He's rifling through
your cabinet, taking all your unused prescription pain meds and
and Narcan is essential. But I want to take Narcan
a step further. It's a tool to save a life.
But what's happening. I just had a kid overdose Saturday night.
His mother called me. The paramedics came, they revived him,
(35:10):
he refused to go to the hospital, and they just left.
They didn't bring in any peer recovery supports specialists to
talk to this kid. Twelve hours later, he overdosed again.
See every time I overdosed. As soon as I got clarity,
I was out of the hospital. I would like to
see a law put into place whereof someone overdoses and
it is brought back by narcan through a paramedic or
(35:32):
law enforcement, they're remanded into treatment on the spot. If
they did not have that drug, they would be dead,
and we're letting them walk out of the hospital three
hours later. It's so important what he just said, because
we do not let people have oh heart attacks at
home and say I'm not going to go to the hospital.
I want to pause and thank our partners making our
(35:55):
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(39:32):
Mark Tait is a high profile lawyer actually suing the
drug companies. Mark take do you really think you've got
a chance. I think we have a chance because all
of the things that both Tim and Dr Maroney have
been talking about that are necessary and have become necessary
to handle all of the things that are doing on
because of the intentional misconduct with the pharmaceutical companies and
(39:55):
their distributors. Those are the costs that we're talking about,
and those costs extend even to law enforcement that counties
and cities and states are bearing regarding every officer now
having to carry narcian, every first responder having to carry narcian,
all of these issues about overdoses. We have instances in
which counties have have had to expand their corners units
(40:20):
in order to house the bodies of overdose victims. In
places and counties that are fortunate enough to have their
own county public health systems, huge costs are being borne
by that taxpayers ultimately in order to essentially subsidize the
vast profits of companies like a Mari source Bergen and
Cardinal Health and Purdue Pharma and Jansen Pharmaceutical, and all
(40:44):
of these companies are subjected to practices that are uniform
in the country, acts that are uniform in the country
Controlled Substances Act and Pharmaceutical Practices Act. But the issue
is and what we will overcome because of finally, community
is tired of bearing costs? Is what happened to the
first lawsuit you filed to Fulton County. One of the
defendants came to Fulton County and said, we want to
(41:05):
open a distributorship here, that there's this lawsuit pending. That
company forced Fulton County to dismiss their first lawsuit. Fulton
County finally said, no, we're spending too much money taking
care of overdosing people and outfitting our task force task
force and indigent burials that we're going to refile, and
that lawsuit is now pending again. And they're not the
(41:27):
only one, Nanasa, So that's certainly a fine. How do
you do that the government is spending too much money
on indigent burials because of overdoses. In other words, so
many people are oding. They don't have enough money to
pay for their burials. Yes, yes, and yes and no.
And is that the true crux of the problem. And
I'm going to give you an example, Nancy in Barnstable
(41:49):
over in Cape Cod Barnstable Jail, when they release their
inmates who are addicts, they are now providing them with
vivitral injections. It's an an abuse in this into required therapy.
And these inmates, even though they've served their time and
have been released and their drug addicts, they are now
giving them VIVIOTL. Vivotal is not cheap twelve hundred fifteen
(42:11):
hundred bucks in injection. I'm sure the jail is getting
a break on the cost. I don't know about that,
but it's expensive. So this is one community that's taking
their uh people who are coming out of jails who
are drug addicts and trying to rehab them. On the
flip side, people who are taking Vivotal have last I've
(42:32):
talked to them where they said, yeah, but we can
just use another substitute drug or use some alcohol, and
we know how to plan it out just to make
it under the wire of pretending that we're clean and
sober when they're not. So it's a double edged sword there.
And as far as varying UH, you know, indigent people
and so forth, a lot of the communities UM in
(42:53):
the lawsuits, I'm sure that's just take law firm. They
want the communities want to recoup the cost that they're
spending extra on emergency services and e er and e
er costs. So it's I don't think that's you don't
think what's why what? But I don't think. I don't
think the community saying about indigence indigent deaths is one
(43:15):
reason why they cannot invest in UH diversion programs. I
think what they're saying is that they're following the lawsuit
because the expense of opioid O d s has become astronomical.
Tim Ryan A and Ees Dopeman, I'm following up on
something to net Social said, And I've been reading so
many true life stories online UM and pairing them with
(43:39):
the people I worked with when I was prosecuting what
you have to do to break free of this? And
one thing is U no alcohol, no smoking, nothing, Well,
why is it so important that you break ties with
old friends? Change your phone number, no alcohol, smoking nothing,
Admit your mistakes and go to KNARC on its anonymous meetings.
(44:01):
Why are those steps so important? Because you have to
understand what the big misconception families have is I sent
my loved one to treatment. A the average opiate addict
goes to treatment six times. So if we and that's
why you know I'm with rehab dot Com. I work
for a treatment center because I want people to come
(44:22):
once and and hopefully grasp everything but getting away the substances.
You gotta work with the underlining trauma. But then living
recovery is a whole different gamut. We need people going
into long term, structured sober living communities. They have to
learn to put recovery first. Maybe in five years clean
and sober, I still attend four twelve step meetings a week.
(44:44):
I still have a sponsor, and I always sponsor at
least one person. My job, my speaking events right in
the book, everything else I do is my career. My
recovery is a complete lifestyle. You need to change people,
places and things. And I'll go back to my son
Nick that died. We always had great insurance. We I
didn't know I could send my son out of state
(45:06):
and put him in a long term ninety day program.
He would do three weeks, he's out the door to
the same people, places and things. His chances of success
were swimmed in none. In hindsight, I would have done
things totally different, Um, and that's what I'm trying to
do now. But you mean, what would you have done differently,
Tim Ryan, I would have got Nick on a plane
(45:26):
and I would send him down to Florida in a minute,
or send him to a long term treatment program like
my program, Transformation Treatment Center, which is my employer. I
can put someone in there with good insurance on a
ninety day structured program and it's gender specific. He could
do twelve sep bates. He can do Christian bas Well.
I noticed the same thing Tim, that when people would
(45:48):
get out of jail, they just go back because I
guess they don't know what else to do. They just
go back to the same people they knew before, and
history repeats itself. But I want to ask to keep
about the other issues. Why is it so important that
you don't have any alcohol, smoking, nothing. Why the addicts
say that while you have to understand, once you've went
(46:09):
into the opiate world, there's no going back. So you
get people that, UM get on vivatral and they might
not have the cravings for opiates, but that's another tool.
You still need to be loving, living recovery. But if
I go back to smoking some weed drinking, I will
ultimately go back to my drug of choice. If you
sober up a horse seek, what do you have? You
(46:30):
have a sober thief. So you need to teach that
person how to live life without altering their mind. And
what I asked people is what's so wrong with you
that you need to be altered? You need to get
to the underlining clauses and conditions. Um And I looked
at my life and I had a lot of trauma.
I was adopted. I had an older brother that was
a narcissist and beat me up all the time. I
(46:51):
had learning disabilities. I was molested by a female baby
center at twelve. Boom. There's all my trauma that was
never dealt with. Drugs and alcohol became my solution. Why
is it? Tim Ryan with A and E's Dopeman Also
with me, William Dr William Moroney, author of American Narcan
mark Tate, high profile lawyers suing drug companies, and investigative
(47:14):
reporter for crime stories. Ninette Sosa. Why is it so important,
Tim Ryan, that you change your phone number and break
ties with all of your older friends. That's hard to do, Tim, Well,
it is. And I'm gonna go back to the people
in prison or or county jails. Here's the problem. You
take me an opiate addict or an addict in general,
and lock me in jail for two years, give me
(47:37):
no tools, no resources, and release me within thirty days.
I'm gonna be back to use. And that's what we do.
Where creatures a habit in our institutions, we meet need
more twelve step based, Christian based smart recovery, refuge recovery
therapeutic communities within the jail. We need drug pods so
people can start working on themselves why they're incarcerated, and
(48:00):
we need wrap around services for when they're getting out.
The one key factor that people don't have is jobs.
They can't get a job because they're a felon. Now, um,
they might not have graduated high school and they have
no opportunity. They have nothing to look forward to, and
they go back to what they know. But you've got
to change every aspect of your life. Of the people
(48:22):
I associate with our in recovery. I have no business
being around people that I don't go hang out at bars,
I don't go to parties. I just have no business
doing it. But it took me a long time to
want to change that. And you don't have to go
to the depths I went to at forty four years old,
getting sentenced to seven years in prison. And I want
families to know. And I'm not doing it to plug
(48:43):
my book, but if you've got a family member struggling,
go to Amazon get my book A Man in Recovery
From Dope to Hope by Kim Ryan, and you will
understand why that person does what they do because I
explain everything in there, and it's a tool for people
getting sober and active addiction or family members that have
a loved one strong one. I want to point out
(49:04):
the statistic that Dr William Moroney first told me, author
of American Narkin. Drug overdoses into last year killed more
Americans then the entire wars in Vietnam and Iraq. The
opioid epidemic last year killed more Americans then the entire
(49:30):
wars in Vietnam and Iraq. I want to take this
moment and thank our partner for making our program possible today,
it's super Beats. Well, if you're like me, you don't
spend a whole lot of time thinking about your circulation.
But I can tell you this. When I gave birth
to the twins and got blood clots in my lungs,
(49:52):
that made me think about circulation. So you really should
think about it. And here's why. Good circulation is crucial
to energy and stamina. And let me tell you something.
Working full time and raising the twins, I need energy.
Now here's the thing. Good circulation gets oxygen and nutrients
flowing through your body, so you can exercise longer, you
(50:14):
can do more every day, and you recover more quickly
when you need to. But what can you do to
promote healthy circulation? Okay, get ready drink super beats? That's right,
I said super beats. When I first said it, my
son thought it was a headset, and my daughter agreed.
It's not a headset. Super Beats promotes the body's own
(50:36):
natural ability to produce healthy circulation to increase energy and
stamina all day long. Super Beats is made from beats
that are grown to very exacting standards, then they're concentrated
into super food crystalls. So if you want to improve
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(50:59):
listen to this. With a first order, you get an
extra thirty days supply of super Beats free, plus these
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(51:23):
my energy and I love super Beats, and I want
to thank super Beats for being with us today and
being our partner. And I want to thank everyone for
joining us and listening today. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing up.
Good bye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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