July 20, 2024 • 39 mins
It's been years since Crystal Roger went missing. Her then-boyfriend, Brooks Houck, immediately became the main suspect.
The mom of five was last seen at Houck's home. Rogers' car was found abandoned with a flat tire on the Bluegrass Parkway two days later. Her keys, phone, and purse were inside the vehicle. Houck was interviewed, but not arrested.
Houck has been charged with murder and tampering with evidence. Now we learn that an Nancy Grace episode in which Houck spoke with Nancy on HLN has been entered into evidence.
Rogers’ body has not been found.
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- James Shelnutt – Attorney – The Shelnutt Law Firm, P.C.; 27-year Atlanta Metro Area Major Case Detective and Former S.W.A.T. Officer; X: @ShelnuttLawFirm
- Dr. Jeff Kieliszewski – Forensic Psychologist, Author: “Darksides;” FB: forensicsandmediapsychologist/TikTok: Dr. Jeff Kieliszewski
- Sheryl McCollum – Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder & Host of New Podcast: “Zone 7;” X: @149Zone
- Fallon Glick – WDRB Louisville News Reporter; Facebook & X: @FallonGlick @WDRBNews
- Jessica Noll - Podcaster: "Bardstown"
- Shay McAlister - reporter WHAS,; Podcaster: "Bardstown"
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Crystal Rogers, a beautiful young mom,
seemingly disappears into thin air, last seen at the home
of her boyfriend, where he says she was sitting in
bed beside him, playing on her cell phone and then
(00:21):
what just vanished? Like Bewitched or I Dream of Jeannie?
How did that work? Well? It didn't in the last days,
A bizarre twist in the case. I'm Nancy Grace. This
is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. The
latest filing in the case of men now charged in
(00:43):
Crystal Rogers's death is all about an episode of Nancy
Grace filmed the week after Crystal disappeared in Bardstown. The
episode of NG on hl N was entered by prosecutors.
They have not revealed the episode's significance in the case,
(01:07):
but I have reason to believe it is. When her boyfriend,
Brooks Hawk, agreed to be interviewed by NG Nancy Grace
on h l N. As I recall it, I ask
him why he never reported Rogers missing when he realized
(01:30):
she was gone, and he answered he wasn't alarmed in
any quote, way, shape or form, that it was not
uncommon for her to go to her cousin's house when
there were issues in their relationship. But during the episode,
Crystal's father, Tommy Ballard tells me he knew of only
(01:53):
one time Crystal had gone to her cousins. I recall
also asking Brooks how about people who claimed he the
boyfriend was not involved in the search for Crystal Rogers,
and he responded, all my efforts and searching for her
have been done behind the scene with Nelson County Sheriff's right. Okay,
(02:19):
just remember family says he never helped look for Crystal,
and they were suspicious of his story from the beginning,
and it was Roger's own mother that reported her missing,
not him. Okay, why is this particular episode of n
G going to be a state's exhibit? But to understand that,
(02:43):
you've got to understand how Crystal went missing.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Nelson County Detective John Snow sits down with Crystal's boyfriend,
Brooks Hawke. The conversation lasts for about ninety minutes. Brooks
tells Detective Snow just what he told Cristel's mom, Sherry Ballard,
and Crystal brought his family's farm feeding the cows.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
You will feed the cows and then you come back
out and you walk the road right.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
The road he goes in.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
After we'd come back, we'd come back out for walking
through here.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Brooks draws a makeshift map for the detective and shows
where he says he and Crystal were on Friday, July third,
twenty fifteen.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
That's you the driveway, the other drum wathers the ball
line right, and then when we walk out the road
and we just walk back through there.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Wearing a blue polo shirt and jeans, Brooks sits casually,
arm up on the table. He maintains his composure and
appears unfazed by the detective's questions about the last time
he saw Crystal on his mom's farm.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
You are hearing just a tiny portion of a fantastic podcast.
I'm totally hooked on it. Bard's Town be is in
brother ar Dstown, bard like Shakespeare, the Bard bard Town Podcast,
and this is what it is about. It's all about
the mysterious deaths that take place in a very small
(04:11):
Kentucky town considered the Bourbon capital of the world, Bardstown, Kentucky.
It's like so many small communities across our country, much
like the one I grew up in, except people are
dropping like flies in Bardstown. With me right now, investigative journalist,
(04:33):
podcast producer with A Vault Studios. Jessica Nol with me
her partner, investigative reporter with Whas n Louisville. They are
responsible for Bardstown Podcast. You can find it at www
dot bardstownpodcast dot com. To you, Jessica, tell me about
Crystal Rogers? Who is she? Who was she?
Speaker 6 (04:55):
Well?
Speaker 7 (04:55):
Crystal Rogers is a thirty five year old mother of five.
She had lived and grown up in Bartstown her whole life,
and she was dating a man by the name of Brooks.
How they had a child together, and she seemingly vanished
(05:16):
July third, twenty fifteen, and her car was found on
the popular roadway through Kentucky Bluegrass Parkway a couple of
days later, and her purse, her cell phone, everything that
a woman would keep with her was found in her car,
her unlocked car, and she's not been seen since.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
You know, to Shane McCallister, investigative reporter Whas Louisville chan,
you guys are rolling her in to the Bardstown murders.
Tell me about the other murders.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Sure, so all of these cases date back to twenty thirteen,
that's when Bargstown police officer Jason Ellis was ambushed on
his way home from work. It was the middle of
the night and as he was pulling off the highway
onto his exit, there was branches laying in the middle
of the road and at least one person hiding, who
(06:16):
then shot and killed him when he got out to
move the branches. That was the first case. Just over
a year later, Samantha and Kathie Netherland, a mother and daughter,
were in their home when they were attacked and brutally murdered.
And this is a special education teacher at Bargstown Elementary
(06:38):
School and a high schooler, a teenage student. They were
very beloved in the community. And that one happened next.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And then.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Sixteen months later, Crystal Rogers goes missing.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
And as of right now, we don't know what has
become of Crystal Rogers. If she's dead, we don't know
her mode of death or cause of deay. Jessica, weren't
you just at the bourbon festival, right? So we went back.
Speaker 7 (07:06):
Spencer Brudig and I, one of our producers, went back
to Bartstown for the Kentucky Bourbon Festival, which is a
huge deal in Bardstown. Thousands of people come in from
all over to sample bourbon from several distilleries that are
actually based right there in Bartstown. It's probably the biggest
event of the year every year there. So we wanted
(07:27):
to go back because there has been some issues with
signs that were in yards for the prayers for Crystal
and standing with the Ballards. They were being taken down,
and so we wanted to go back and see what
was going on and what people were saying. And what
(07:49):
we saw was an incredible outcry of community support.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Now wait a minute, a minute, I want to talk.
I don't want to gloss over what you just said.
Signs across bard Town have been removed, and the signs
specifically were showing support for Crystal Rogers who goes missing.
Incredible pain for Crystal's mother, Sherry Ballard, her daughter Crystal
(08:14):
went missing, and then her own husband was mysteriously killed
in twenty sixteen. Now a brand new heartache, very very
disturbing because these signs all across the county were taken down.
Now Balard blames Bardstown, the city, which says it has
(08:38):
to follow city policy. All temporary signs in right of
ways have to be removed. Now, I don't know if
that had anything to do with it, but I'm looking
at a giant pink placard, a sign that says Prayers
for Crystal. Now, why would anybody want to take that down?
(08:58):
And it's not in a right of way, it's off
I would say, a good fifteen to thirty feet off
the highway. So what happened to the Prayers for Crystal signs, Jessica.
Speaker 7 (09:09):
Well, the city and the county deny taking them down,
But the signs were actually found behind city Hall, near
a dumpster where they store signs that have been taken down.
So and Sherry and some friends and family are actually
the ones who found those signs back behind city Hall,
and they it didn't stop them. They replenished what was
(09:34):
out there. When we went to Bardstown, there were new
signs out, but there was also you know, bourbon festival signs,
no parking signs, no pets here signs that were exactly
in places where the Prayers for Crystal signs used to
be and were taken down. But they had created some
(09:57):
brand new signs also. And some of the signs, I
should mention aren't just prayers for Crystal. They're also pointing
the finger at the prime suspect in her case, Brooks
Hawke and his brother Nick.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
How Crime Stories with Nancy Grace in the Last Days.
An episode of Nancy Grace off h ol N has
been entered into evidence in the murder case of Crystal Rogers.
(10:32):
Her body has never been found. What happened to Crystal?
Take a listen to this.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
You had a little fire.
Speaker 8 (10:40):
When was that after you dipped your walker?
Speaker 4 (10:42):
Before you dip your walk?
Speaker 8 (10:43):
I know we fed the cows first because I want
to do that as quickly while we had still plenty
of day. I don't know if I lift the fire
before we walked back here right when I got back,
I could have done it either or I don't remember.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
After the fire and with their toddler in tow, Brooks says,
he and Crystal take a walk to me, and I've.
Speaker 9 (11:01):
Got a couple of kids, you know, but everybody parents
a little differently.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
To me, it seems a little late.
Speaker 10 (11:07):
To be out on the farm with a two and
a half year Where is he head at midnight?
Speaker 9 (11:11):
Is he has he been asleep in the.
Speaker 11 (11:13):
Car for a while?
Speaker 8 (11:14):
Is he still he's wide opening for anybot he's used.
So he used to sleeping so later in the morning
his normal day, that's his seven eight o'clock in the evening,
May eleven, because she sleeps much later in the morning,
she stays up.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
So yeah, it's always been that way at midnight and
he's wild over.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
You're hearing the boyfriend brooks hout and he's speaking to
Detective Snow. Now, let me understand something. To Shay McCallister,
investigative reporter with w h AS in Louisville. The boyfriend
says he goes for a walk with Crystal and the
little baby, the one year old, at midnight.
Speaker 6 (11:53):
That's what he tells police.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
He says they went down to feed the cows. But
Sherry Ballard, Crystal's mom, has had a big problem with
this since the beginning. She says that it was very
rainy that night, and there's just no way Crystal would
have wanted to be walking around the farm, much less
with her baby.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Whose farm was it.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
It was Hauke's mom's farm, So Brooks Houke's mom, Rosemary Hauke,
has a huge farm on the outskirts of Bardstown, and
that's where they say they were.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
So did Brooks Houke's mother see Crystal there with the
baby that night.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
We don't have any kind of recordings of her police interviews,
and she has never given us an interview.
Speaker 6 (12:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Have you tried, have you tried to talk to her? Yeah,
we have tried to talk to her.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
We've seen her in court multiple times over the years.
She's always there when Brooks is in court or at
custody hearings for that little boy, and we have definitely
tried to talk to her.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Interesting, very interesting. So she's on a date I guess
you could call it with her boyfriend and he thinks
it's a good thing to take her to fade the
cows at midnight with the baby. Do I am I
understanding this correctly, Jessica knowl.
Speaker 7 (13:04):
That is correct, And I do want to point out
we actually do go to the farm and try to
speak to Rosemary there. But what's interesting about the clip
that you just ran someone on Facebook because we've had
a lot of chatter from folks that want to chime
in with what they're hearing and their thoughts and theories,
(13:26):
and someone pointed out that he actually says in that clip,
I went home. He doesn't say we, which I thought
was kind of interesting for someone to hear when they
were listening to that, because I didn't pick that up.
He says, we didn't get anything to eat. But then
he says, I went home.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
I noticed that. I noticed when he said I went home,
and I just assumed that Crystal Rogers peeled off. But
having a baby out at midnight, I just don't believe
that for a minute. Take a listen to Brooks Howp
and Detective Snow.
Speaker 8 (14:01):
I probably I probably woke up around you know, in
between that time May six or seven o'clock and then
I left.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
You know, I got did my normal thing, could you.
Speaker 8 (14:10):
Know, change my clothes, put my clothes.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
On, and and and headed out, you know shortly after that.
Speaker 10 (14:17):
You know, So you get up between six and seven,
and where's Eli at When you wake up, he's next
to me.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
He's in the bed with you.
Speaker 9 (14:26):
Okay, so you get up, does he get up with you?
Speaker 5 (14:31):
He's still he's still asleeps on ever I whenever I
get up, but I go to uh, you know, the
bathroom and all that kind of stuff, and he's still sleeping, uh,
sleeping there.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
On the bed.
Speaker 6 (14:43):
But Crystal isn't there when he gets out.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Yes, I noticed, I mean I noticed that she wasn't there.
I didn't know what was I didn't know exactly what
to think. I don't know what time I called her. Yes,
I called her that morning.
Speaker 6 (14:53):
Gros takes his son to the farm, but his lack
of concern.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
For crystals whereabouts gives the detective pause, and he probes,
if I woke.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Up on a Saturday morning and my wife wasn't with
me in the bed as is normal.
Speaker 8 (15:09):
If she were not, probably the first thing I would
do would be to call her to find.
Speaker 9 (15:13):
Out where she was.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
You were hearing Brooks how the boyfriend of Crystal Rogers
the father of their child, and Detective snow, could you
play cut three one more time?
Speaker 8 (15:23):
I probably I probably woke up around you know, in
between that time May six or seven o'clock, and then
I left. You know, I got did my normal thing,
because you know, change my clothes, put my clothes on,
and and and headed out, you know shortly after that.
Speaker 10 (15:38):
You know, So you get up between six and seven,
and where's Eli at.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
When you wake up, he's next to me.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
He's in the bed with you.
Speaker 9 (15:47):
Okay, so you get up? Does he get up? With you.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
He's still He's still asleep on every eye whenever I
get up.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
But I go to uh, you know, the bathroom and
all that stuff, and he's still sleeping.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Sleeping there on the bed.
Speaker 6 (16:04):
But Crystal isn't there when he gets out.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Yes, I mean I know she wasn't there.
Speaker 8 (16:08):
I didn't know what was I didn't know exactly what
to I don't know what time.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
I called her. Yes, I called her that morning.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Brooks takes his son to the farm, but his lack
of concern for Crystal's whereabouts gives the detective pause.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
If I woke up on a Saturday morning and my
wife wasn't with me in the bed as is normal,
if she were not, probably the first thing I would
do would be to.
Speaker 9 (16:31):
Call her to find out where she was.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Seay, McAllister. I'm hearing them talking about the Hawk brothers.
There's more than one of them.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yes, there is. There are two Help brothers. There's Nick Help,
the older of the two. He was a Bargetown police
officer when Crystal went missing, and then his younger brother,
Brooks Help was Crystal's boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
So is he is the brother still with the police force.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
He is not. He was fired just a few months
after Crystal went missing. Nick and her feared with the investigation,
and he actually called his brother Brooks while he was
in an interrogation room with police.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
As a matter of fact, take a listen to this.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
The interview is interrupted when Brooks gets a call from
his older brother, Nick Hawk, the Bartstown police officer.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
I get this, you have.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
I'm up here. I know that you didn't know I'm
up here in this interview with the detective.
Speaker 8 (17:30):
Detective snow, I've been up here a good little while.
I'm feeling out this this statement here and everything?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Is it?
Speaker 8 (17:41):
Do you know you telling me that's you tell me
that's what I need to do.
Speaker 9 (17:46):
I know, I.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Know, don't I know, I'm not I know that. But
what if I look at it is I'm innocent. I
ain't done nothing wrong. Well you know, I know you
told me innocent. People have got jammed up. If you're
telling me to leave, I'll get up and leave if
you if you omitted, I don't know. I'm going to
do a lot, but I'm trying to get this guy
to help me. I don't think. I don't think she's
(18:09):
ran off with some other guy.
Speaker 8 (18:10):
If I don't believe that.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
You can't make me think that.
Speaker 8 (18:16):
I'll do exactly what you're telling me to do.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
You'll make it up and leave.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Well, that's exactly what he did. That's brooks Hout, the boyfriend,
the lover of Crystal Rogers now missing with Detective Snow.
And as a matter of fact, he did get up
and leave. Well, long story short, the Bardstown Police Chief
Rick McGavin hears that the officer officer how calls his
(18:45):
brother and tells him to leave. Listen.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
But news of that phone call eventually gets back to
Bardstown Police Chief Rick mccobbn and goes against everything his
owes of ethics stands for in his department.
Speaker 12 (18:57):
Nick wasn't being questioned, no, but what really got my
irish up was the fact that he called his brother
and I guess, you know, kind of encouraging him to,
you know, to leave, to get out of there. And
sure you and again let me get let me use
an example. You and your friend could call you and go, man, Jessica,
you need to shut up and leave. Nothing I can
do about it. Which friend's not a cop, your brother's
(19:21):
not a cop. And I told him, I said, that's
not how this profession rolls.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
You don't get to do that.
Speaker 6 (19:28):
I don't care if you're looking out for your brother
or not.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
You don't get to do that, you know, So that was,
you know, part of it.
Speaker 7 (19:33):
Well.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
As a matter of fact, After that, Nick Hawk's boss,
the police chief, orders him to talk to detectives, and
according to an FBI polygraph examiner who tells Nick Howck
in a police interrogation video, quote, it's pretty clear you
haven't told me the complete truth, and the questions you're
having problems with are questions about Crystal, in particular whether
(19:57):
or not you know where she is is right now,
Explain that to me, Jesskanal, what happened?
Speaker 7 (20:04):
So the FBI polygraph examiner tells Nick how the police
officer at that time, that he is not being truthful
with him, and that whole interaction just really begins to escalate,
and he at one point asks him as Nick is
(20:26):
getting audibly frustrated with him because he's calling him a
liar essentially, at one point, the FBI polygraph examiner says,
is this how you acted towards Crystal? And and he
obviously begins yelling at that point. So there is something
(20:50):
and you know, better than us, that polygraph examinations aren't
always one hundred percent, But there was something there was
enough of not telling the truth that set off their radar,
and that he was not being truthful when he was
(21:13):
talking about Crystal, about her disappearance, about Brooks possibly telling
him something about him having any involvement, he was not
being truthful according to their examination.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Take a listen to this.
Speaker 13 (21:26):
Well, Nick, I've had a chance to review in your
charts on that test, that first test you it did
not pass the test, and it's pretty clear to me
that you have held me really truth is that.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
The questions you're having a problem that there are.
Speaker 13 (21:37):
Questions about Christall and in particular one about whether or
not you know where she's.
Speaker 9 (21:41):
Right now, And I don't know.
Speaker 13 (21:45):
I treat police officers in these circumstances so like I
would myself, So I'm not going to go through all.
Speaker 9 (21:49):
The interview of terrogation nonsense. I think you and I
are in the same page.
Speaker 13 (21:54):
But at again, I'm also going to tell you the
completely true. As we're sitting here and it's no longer
matter I'm blundering.
Speaker 9 (22:01):
Do you know anything about what happened? We're past that now.
I mean now you have crystal clear with you. I
give everybody a good fair test. I'm no longer asking
you if you know you do Now what do you
want to do with that is entirely up to you.
I got yelling scream match you and get the sick
Woods phone book and all that. I'm talking to your manage.
Speaker 13 (22:19):
Man as a follow mforcenops or that the time has
come for you to think real hard about the rest
of your life.
Speaker 9 (22:28):
This is you. I'm I talk about broke everybody else,
and I'm telling you facts life. I'm an old guy
and I'm trying to.
Speaker 14 (22:33):
Be a father figure here.
Speaker 9 (22:34):
But I'll tell you doing this for twenty five years
the way that this fans out.
Speaker 13 (22:39):
But the FBI that gets involved in this investigation, or
you're listening one time, you don't have to say anything
to me.
Speaker 9 (22:44):
You do whatever you want to do.
Speaker 13 (22:46):
As I said, he may never even be in an
FBI agent, right, but once you get on the radar,
we don't go away unless there's a reason too. I
thought there would be the end past this, and there's
some other information there as well, So I guarantee.
Speaker 14 (23:02):
What I've got on all right, The f guy.
Speaker 13 (23:04):
Has unlimited resources in terms of forensic information, electronic information.
Many bodies want to pour attribute surveillance and look there
everything that's ever nine on the flue fine crystals.
Speaker 9 (23:19):
You heard that about that as a matter of what's.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Get On July fifteenth, twenty fifteen, detectives also revealed to
Nick they found bodily fluids inside his police cruiser the
day after he and Brooks leave the station together and
drive to their mom's farm.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
Have you ever heard of illuminol? You ever been any
kind of veigations?
Speaker 14 (23:38):
All right?
Speaker 4 (23:38):
You know what luminol's used for? Its fine blood?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Okay, or other.
Speaker 10 (23:44):
Fluid?
Speaker 4 (23:45):
Ok So, we always create.
Speaker 13 (23:48):
Bodily fluid, sweat, you know, vomit, anything, you know, salava.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
All that is is what would fluoresce?
Speaker 13 (23:56):
Would Why would your trunk look like a smurf if
they spray it while it flores the minit.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
He looked like Nobyl. There's gull spots in the trump
in that blanket, I mean, just live like Chernobyl. Why
would that? There's not one to be any blood in tronk?
Speaker 9 (24:11):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Well, and I say blood, I'm talking about other bodily fluids.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
I don't have you there shouldn't there shouldn't be anybody
bodily floods in the trunt.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
WHOA, it's not going to be any blood. Well that
tells me right there that there's a strong possibility she
was asphyxiated. She's not going to be any blood. That's
the first thing he said. And again everyone has said
they're not guilty, that they're innocent in this case, and
they have a right to a trial. By Jerry, when
did he report her missing?
Speaker 6 (24:38):
Brooks Hawk never reports her missing.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Actually, her mom reports her missing a few days later,
when she's had trouble reaching her over the phone, and
when she actually runs into Brooks how in town, she
asks Brooks, hey, have you seen Crystal? Where do you
think she is? And Brooks said, no, I haven't seen her.
(25:02):
And Sherry says, well, then I'm going to go report
her missing. And Brooks says, yeah, I think you should
do that.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Take a listen to Brooks house speaking to Detective Snow
on this very issue.
Speaker 6 (25:15):
Brooks runs into Crystal's mom.
Speaker 9 (25:17):
I met her mother at the gas station somewhere one
of these days.
Speaker 8 (25:22):
Her mother's Sherry, Crystal's mother, Sherry came up. Heurer my
window and asked me if I had seen Crystal, and when.
Speaker 10 (25:33):
You told her what, I haven't seen her, don't know
where she is, and she just said okay and asked me.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
That she thought that she thought that the wisest thing
for us to do was she said she's going to
go to the police station, and.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Then I went home.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Meanwhile, Crystal's mom files a missing person's report at the
Nelson County Sheriff's office around three pm. Two hours later,
her father, Tommy, gets a call Crystal's car has been
found along the Bluegrass Parkway. Tommy goes and uncovers her keys, phone,
and purse inside. Brooks tells detectives know that he wasn't
(26:10):
concerned until Sunday because she'd quote done this before.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Friends and family tell me there's no way Crystal would
ever have left her children, never ever ever. Crime Stories
with Nancy Grace, Crystal Rogers's boyfriend, Brooks Hawk, came on
(26:39):
to the NG Nancy Gray Show on HLM. I questioned
him about his behavior immediately following Crystal's disappearance. I didn't
like any of his answers, and apparently prosecutors agree that
taped episode will be entered into evidence by the state
(27:00):
joining me right now. In addition to her parents, saw
Tom and Sherry Ballard, her boyfriend that she lived with.
So Brooks, you go to bed and she's still playing
games on her phone. The next morning, around eight o'clock,
you notice that she's missing. Did you report her missing?
Speaker 4 (27:18):
No, ma'am.
Speaker 14 (27:19):
Why that is a great question and one that I
definitely want to hear the other public in the media.
I was not in the least little ditch along in
any way, shape or form. We have had a stress
relationship at times, and one of the ways that Crystal
(27:41):
has always chose to the coper to deal with that
is by going to a young woman's name Sabrina. That
is her cousin, her dad brother's daughter, whom she's very
close to.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
That she spent the night.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
There on several oc When you say several, do you
mean one three twenty in.
Speaker 14 (28:05):
The neighborhood of four to six Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Thomas Sherry Ballard, were you aware of that? Do you
know who Sabrina is?
Speaker 11 (28:12):
Yes, ma'am, that's my niece.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Okay. Did you know that she doesn't spend the night
over there when she's having an issue at home?
Speaker 4 (28:20):
I'm not on probably one time.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Right, Okay, I want to go back to Brooks Houck.
Let me ask you this. I know that you agreed
to take a polygraph? Did you pass?
Speaker 14 (28:31):
They because of the way that the lines or whatever
wrong that they may determined it to be what's called inconclusive.
I'm not exactly sure what that means, but they did
tell me it does mean that I wasn't flying, or
I didn't pass it, or I didn't fell it. They
just ruled it inconclusive. And that's exactly the way that
it stands. I've been one hundred percent completely honest with everyone.
(28:56):
I've been one hundred percent a cooperative in everything that
has been asked of me. I'm not asked for any
kind of legal advice or assistance or an attorney of
any nature. I'm one hundred percent completely innocent in this,
and I have exhausted my efforts with the law enforcement
(29:17):
agencies to gather all the facts necessary to allow me
to have a clean name again. And that's very important
to me.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
You are hearing, oh, who has been called the number
one suspect, Crystal Rogers lover Brooks help with me questioning him.
I find it very interesting that either he's not telling
me the truth or the FBI agent that truth. Polygraph
is not telling the truth because I was looking right
at the video when the agent that the poligrapher says,
(29:53):
you did not pass. Okay, that's not inconclusive. That's you
did not pass. But when I was questioning him, how
it says that it was inconclusive, basically blaming the test. Also,
I heard something very significant. Apparently. The first story was
they were up playing games like video games, I guess,
(30:13):
and then went to sleep. That's a far cry from
fading the cows.
Speaker 7 (30:17):
Jessica nol Brooks's story is that once they got home
from the farm, he went to bed and his son
stayed up with Crystal and Crystal played games on her
phone and that was the last time he saw her.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
It's an interest that has everyone's attention. Brooks.
Speaker 15 (30:34):
How Crystal Roger's boyfriend and the main suspect in her disappearance,
charged with her murder and tempering with physical evidence. According
to the indictment, the charge of stem from an incident
July fourth weekend of twenty fifteen, just days before Crystal's
car was found abandoned on the side of the Bluegrass
Parkway with her keys, phone and purse inside. He was
(30:55):
named the main suspect within three months, but never charged
until today.
Speaker 11 (31:00):
Why so long?
Speaker 1 (31:03):
You were just hearing our friends in whas for those
of you just joining us in the last hours, finally
unarrest in the murder of Crystal Rogers. And you know
what's so irritating, You know, Cheryl mccoum is joining me,
director of the Cold Case Research Institute and star of
a hitnew series Zone seven. When I hear and I've
(31:27):
heard it over and over, it's countless cases, Cheryl McCollum quote,
everybody knew. I mean since day one, everyone said, Brooks,
how is the killer? Why did it take so long?
And to you, Cheryl McCollum, have you ever had those cases?
And you have to tell every single witness it doesn't
(31:50):
matter what everybody says, because very often what everybody says
is not true. That's not the killer. It turns out
to be someone completely different. But in this case, it's true.
Since the whole thing went down, he has been suspect
number one.
Speaker 16 (32:08):
He's been suspect only one. There hasn't been anybody else.
But it's one of those situations. What you know and
what you could prove is not the same thing. So
they had to be patient. They had to work this
case from every angle, which is what they did. They
got him once for theft, they got people that were
close to him for perjury. They even pressed Grandma so
(32:30):
hard she invoked her Fifth Amendment. So they have worked
this thing beautifully. Yeah, as long as they possibly could.
Speaker 6 (32:39):
Take.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Listen to whas eleven federal investigators accused Helk of intentionally
causing the death of Crystal Runchers and destroying, concealing, mutilating,
or removing physical evidence in connection to the crime, He
was arrested without incident while on a job site outside
of Bardstown.
Speaker 6 (32:56):
This was the moment Brooks was put into handcuffs.
Speaker 11 (32:59):
My fires reaction was just Sherry and her family getting
the justice that they.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Have fought so much. For joining me right now, Anchor
wd RB out of Louisville, Fallon Glick, thank you for
being with us. Fallon, tell me about the arrest.
Speaker 17 (33:19):
Well Brooks, how Kerr former boyfriend. He was arrested at
a work site and then he was then taken to
the Nelson County jail. We have video of him and
handcuffed walking into the jail. It wasn't there very long,
but we did get a booking photo of him, and
then he was taken to another county jail. It's called
the Harding County Jail, and that is where he is
(33:40):
staying currently. And he's not going to get out unless
you posts that ten million dollars cash only bond.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Okay, ten million dollars cash bond, James Shelknett. That's unlike
a lot of bonds where you can put, for instance,
your house down is collateral, you get one hundred thousand
dollars bond. You got to come up with ten thousand
dollars money or collateral like a home. But a ten
million dollar bond that's not going to happen anytime soon.
Speaker 11 (34:10):
No, it's not going to happen anytime soon. And you
know a lot of times with severe cases you do
see a cash boar. But even with a cash bond,
that's a pretty high cash bond. They must feel pretty
confident in the case that they've got against them, and
so much the judge to set the bond that high,
I mean, get real shell nut.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
If the guy has managed to outsmart police for this
many years and the disappearance and death of his girlfriend,
Crystal Rogers. I wouldn't let him set one toe outside
of that jail house because he could very likely slip away.
Speaker 11 (34:43):
I wouldn't let him set outside the jail either. You know,
this guy has sat and committed potentially a crime against
the mother of five children. He's covered it up, He's
played games. And this guy's shown he's dangerous and he's
a danger to the community.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
And danger to any potential witnesses. Is why I would
let him out on bond. And you said the case
is so severe it calls for a high cash bond.
What do you mean by that? And what is a
cash bond as supposed to a regular bond, Shell.
Speaker 11 (35:13):
Nut, Well, it's severe because he's accused of murdering a
mother of five, of potentially covering this murder up taking steps.
Speaker 13 (35:22):
You know.
Speaker 11 (35:22):
Additionally, you know, we've got some implications as to involvement
in some other situations as well. And the cash bond
is set so that the judge can ensure that. Yeah,
I'm not giving him a no bond, So I'm going
to meet the basic constitutional requirements of providing bail. But
I will tell you this, if you're going to get out,
we're going to be pretty sure that you're coming back.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Okay, let me Q and A with myself for just
a moment. James shell Nutt was asked what's the difference
in a cash bond and regular bond? Again, in regular
bond you can put up collateral like the value of
your home. You can put up for instance, real estatem.
A cash bawn, you gotta have cold hard cash. Everything
(36:05):
else shell Nutt said, was dead on joining me. James
shell Nutt a high profile lawyer with the shell Nut Firm.
He's based in Alabama, but travels all over twenty seven
years on Metro major case at shell Nut Law Firm
dot com. Guys, this has been one long drawn out investigation.
(36:26):
I want you to take a listen to Monica Harkins WDRB.
Speaker 18 (36:30):
We saw the car pull in through the fence. As
he got out of the car, I asked, where is
Crystal Rogers. He didn't say anything. As he entered the
back of the jail, the Nelson County jailer was also
on hand. You can see that clearly as this unmarked
car goes through the gates. Around ten forty five Hawk
showed up here, but it was around eight forty five
this morning, the FBI of.
Speaker 6 (36:51):
Louisville posted about Hawke's arrest.
Speaker 18 (36:53):
Rogers was last seen in July of twenty fifteen. The
FBI post saying FBI and KSP have been laser folks
on their commitment to hold accountable those that were responsible
for the disappearance of Crystal Rogers, saying, quote, today we
take a significant step in making good on that promise.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
You know, Falling Glick joining me anchor wd RB. We
all heard FB I, why did the FBI have to
be brought in to solve this case? What about local
law enforcement?
Speaker 17 (37:27):
What's the problem, Falling Glick, Well, local law enforcement, the
sheriff's office, they have been on this since day one,
and I think they just didn't have enough resources to
pull this case together. And we know Sherry Ballor, the
mother of Crystal Rogers, she has been the true champion
for her daughter's case, keeping it in the spotlight. And
(37:48):
you know, very soon after her daughter disappeared, she asked
the FBI to come in, please take over this case.
And that didn't happen until five years later. So the FBI,
they've been on the case now for three years, and
when they come in that late they have more work
to do because they weren't there from day one, and
(38:09):
so it has taken a lot of time to pull
all this evidence together because we know they've executed so
many surge warrants at the Hawk family properties, the Hawk
Family farm, you know, that's the three hundred acre farm,
so they have been there several times. And then not
too long ago, they were at a home that Brooks
House has built and they dug up the driveway collected
(38:31):
a ton of evidence there. So the evidence that the
FBI has had to sort through is unimaginable. I know
the prosecutor is saying that they have to turn over
to terabytes worth of information in this case. So just
a lot to go through here.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Crystal Rogers' boyfriend came on to the NG Nancy Gray
Show on HLM. I didn't like any of his answers,
and apparently Peters agree that taped episode will be entered
into evidence by the state. Crystal Roger's body still not found.
(39:11):
We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off Goodbye Friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Crystal Rogers, a beautiful young mom,
seemingly disappears into thin air, last seen at the home
of her boyfriend, where he says she was sitting in
bed beside him, playing on her cell phone and then
(00:21):
what just vanished? Like Bewitched or I Dream of Jeannie?
How did that work? Well? It didn't in the last days,
A bizarre twist in the case. I'm Nancy Grace. This
is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. The
latest filing in the case of men now charged in
(00:43):
Crystal Rogers's death is all about an episode of Nancy
Grace filmed the week after Crystal disappeared in Bardstown. The
episode of NG on hl N was entered by prosecutors.
They have not revealed the episode's significance in the case,
(01:07):
but I have reason to believe it is. When her boyfriend,
Brooks Hawk, agreed to be interviewed by NG Nancy Grace
on h l N. As I recall it, I ask
him why he never reported Rogers missing when he realized
(01:30):
she was gone, and he answered he wasn't alarmed in
any quote, way, shape or form, that it was not
uncommon for her to go to her cousin's house when
there were issues in their relationship. But during the episode,
Crystal's father, Tommy Ballard tells me he knew of only
(01:53):
one time Crystal had gone to her cousins. I recall
also asking Brooks how about people who claimed he the
boyfriend was not involved in the search for Crystal Rogers,
and he responded, all my efforts and searching for her
have been done behind the scene with Nelson County Sheriff's right. Okay,
(02:19):
just remember family says he never helped look for Crystal,
and they were suspicious of his story from the beginning,
and it was Roger's own mother that reported her missing,
not him. Okay, why is this particular episode of n
G going to be a state's exhibit? But to understand that,
(02:43):
you've got to understand how Crystal went missing.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Nelson County Detective John Snow sits down with Crystal's boyfriend,
Brooks Hawke. The conversation lasts for about ninety minutes. Brooks
tells Detective Snow just what he told Cristel's mom, Sherry Ballard,
and Crystal brought his family's farm feeding the cows.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
You will feed the cows and then you come back
out and you walk the road right.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
The road he goes in.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
After we'd come back, we'd come back out for walking
through here.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Brooks draws a makeshift map for the detective and shows
where he says he and Crystal were on Friday, July third,
twenty fifteen.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
That's you the driveway, the other drum wathers the ball
line right, and then when we walk out the road
and we just walk back through there.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Wearing a blue polo shirt and jeans, Brooks sits casually,
arm up on the table. He maintains his composure and
appears unfazed by the detective's questions about the last time
he saw Crystal on his mom's farm.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
You are hearing just a tiny portion of a fantastic podcast.
I'm totally hooked on it. Bard's Town be is in
brother ar Dstown, bard like Shakespeare, the Bard bard Town Podcast,
and this is what it is about. It's all about
the mysterious deaths that take place in a very small
(04:11):
Kentucky town considered the Bourbon capital of the world, Bardstown, Kentucky.
It's like so many small communities across our country, much
like the one I grew up in, except people are
dropping like flies in Bardstown. With me right now, investigative journalist,
(04:33):
podcast producer with A Vault Studios. Jessica Nol with me
her partner, investigative reporter with Whas n Louisville. They are
responsible for Bardstown Podcast. You can find it at www
dot bardstownpodcast dot com. To you, Jessica, tell me about
Crystal Rogers? Who is she? Who was she?
Speaker 6 (04:55):
Well?
Speaker 7 (04:55):
Crystal Rogers is a thirty five year old mother of five.
She had lived and grown up in Bartstown her whole life,
and she was dating a man by the name of Brooks.
How they had a child together, and she seemingly vanished
(05:16):
July third, twenty fifteen, and her car was found on
the popular roadway through Kentucky Bluegrass Parkway a couple of
days later, and her purse, her cell phone, everything that
a woman would keep with her was found in her car,
her unlocked car, and she's not been seen since.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
You know, to Shane McCallister, investigative reporter Whas Louisville chan,
you guys are rolling her in to the Bardstown murders.
Tell me about the other murders.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Sure, so all of these cases date back to twenty thirteen,
that's when Bargstown police officer Jason Ellis was ambushed on
his way home from work. It was the middle of
the night and as he was pulling off the highway
onto his exit, there was branches laying in the middle
of the road and at least one person hiding, who
(06:16):
then shot and killed him when he got out to
move the branches. That was the first case. Just over
a year later, Samantha and Kathie Netherland, a mother and daughter,
were in their home when they were attacked and brutally murdered.
And this is a special education teacher at Bargstown Elementary
(06:38):
School and a high schooler, a teenage student. They were
very beloved in the community. And that one happened next.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
And then.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Sixteen months later, Crystal Rogers goes missing.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
And as of right now, we don't know what has
become of Crystal Rogers. If she's dead, we don't know
her mode of death or cause of deay. Jessica, weren't
you just at the bourbon festival, right? So we went back.
Speaker 7 (07:06):
Spencer Brudig and I, one of our producers, went back
to Bartstown for the Kentucky Bourbon Festival, which is a
huge deal in Bardstown. Thousands of people come in from
all over to sample bourbon from several distilleries that are
actually based right there in Bartstown. It's probably the biggest
event of the year every year there. So we wanted
(07:27):
to go back because there has been some issues with
signs that were in yards for the prayers for Crystal
and standing with the Ballards. They were being taken down,
and so we wanted to go back and see what
was going on and what people were saying. And what
(07:49):
we saw was an incredible outcry of community support.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Now wait a minute, a minute, I want to talk.
I don't want to gloss over what you just said.
Signs across bard Town have been removed, and the signs
specifically were showing support for Crystal Rogers who goes missing.
Incredible pain for Crystal's mother, Sherry Ballard, her daughter Crystal
(08:14):
went missing, and then her own husband was mysteriously killed
in twenty sixteen. Now a brand new heartache, very very
disturbing because these signs all across the county were taken down.
Now Balard blames Bardstown, the city, which says it has
(08:38):
to follow city policy. All temporary signs in right of
ways have to be removed. Now, I don't know if
that had anything to do with it, but I'm looking
at a giant pink placard, a sign that says Prayers
for Crystal. Now, why would anybody want to take that down?
(08:58):
And it's not in a right of way, it's off
I would say, a good fifteen to thirty feet off
the highway. So what happened to the Prayers for Crystal signs, Jessica.
Speaker 7 (09:09):
Well, the city and the county deny taking them down,
But the signs were actually found behind city Hall, near
a dumpster where they store signs that have been taken down.
So and Sherry and some friends and family are actually
the ones who found those signs back behind city Hall,
and they it didn't stop them. They replenished what was
(09:34):
out there. When we went to Bardstown, there were new
signs out, but there was also you know, bourbon festival signs,
no parking signs, no pets here signs that were exactly
in places where the Prayers for Crystal signs used to
be and were taken down. But they had created some
(09:57):
brand new signs also. And some of the signs, I
should mention aren't just prayers for Crystal. They're also pointing
the finger at the prime suspect in her case, Brooks
Hawke and his brother Nick.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
How Crime Stories with Nancy Grace in the Last Days.
An episode of Nancy Grace off h ol N has
been entered into evidence in the murder case of Crystal Rogers.
(10:32):
Her body has never been found. What happened to Crystal?
Take a listen to this.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
You had a little fire.
Speaker 8 (10:40):
When was that after you dipped your walker?
Speaker 4 (10:42):
Before you dip your walk?
Speaker 8 (10:43):
I know we fed the cows first because I want
to do that as quickly while we had still plenty
of day. I don't know if I lift the fire
before we walked back here right when I got back,
I could have done it either or I don't remember.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
After the fire and with their toddler in tow, Brooks says,
he and Crystal take a walk to me, and I've.
Speaker 9 (11:01):
Got a couple of kids, you know, but everybody parents
a little differently.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
To me, it seems a little late.
Speaker 10 (11:07):
To be out on the farm with a two and
a half year Where is he head at midnight?
Speaker 9 (11:11):
Is he has he been asleep in the.
Speaker 11 (11:13):
Car for a while?
Speaker 8 (11:14):
Is he still he's wide opening for anybot he's used.
So he used to sleeping so later in the morning
his normal day, that's his seven eight o'clock in the evening,
May eleven, because she sleeps much later in the morning,
she stays up.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
So yeah, it's always been that way at midnight and
he's wild over.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
You're hearing the boyfriend brooks hout and he's speaking to
Detective Snow. Now, let me understand something. To Shay McCallister,
investigative reporter with w h AS in Louisville. The boyfriend
says he goes for a walk with Crystal and the
little baby, the one year old, at midnight.
Speaker 6 (11:53):
That's what he tells police.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
He says they went down to feed the cows. But
Sherry Ballard, Crystal's mom, has had a big problem with
this since the beginning. She says that it was very
rainy that night, and there's just no way Crystal would
have wanted to be walking around the farm, much less
with her baby.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Whose farm was it.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
It was Hauke's mom's farm, So Brooks Houke's mom, Rosemary Hauke,
has a huge farm on the outskirts of Bardstown, and
that's where they say they were.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
So did Brooks Houke's mother see Crystal there with the
baby that night.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
We don't have any kind of recordings of her police interviews,
and she has never given us an interview.
Speaker 6 (12:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Have you tried, have you tried to talk to her? Yeah,
we have tried to talk to her.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
We've seen her in court multiple times over the years.
She's always there when Brooks is in court or at
custody hearings for that little boy, and we have definitely
tried to talk to her.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Interesting, very interesting. So she's on a date I guess
you could call it with her boyfriend and he thinks
it's a good thing to take her to fade the
cows at midnight with the baby. Do I am I
understanding this correctly, Jessica knowl.
Speaker 7 (13:04):
That is correct, And I do want to point out
we actually do go to the farm and try to
speak to Rosemary there. But what's interesting about the clip
that you just ran someone on Facebook because we've had
a lot of chatter from folks that want to chime
in with what they're hearing and their thoughts and theories,
(13:26):
and someone pointed out that he actually says in that clip,
I went home. He doesn't say we, which I thought
was kind of interesting for someone to hear when they
were listening to that, because I didn't pick that up.
He says, we didn't get anything to eat. But then
he says, I went home.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
I noticed that. I noticed when he said I went home,
and I just assumed that Crystal Rogers peeled off. But
having a baby out at midnight, I just don't believe
that for a minute. Take a listen to Brooks Howp
and Detective Snow.
Speaker 8 (14:01):
I probably I probably woke up around you know, in
between that time May six or seven o'clock and then
I left.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
You know, I got did my normal thing, could you.
Speaker 8 (14:10):
Know, change my clothes, put my clothes.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
On, and and and headed out, you know shortly after that.
Speaker 10 (14:17):
You know, So you get up between six and seven,
and where's Eli at When you wake up, he's next
to me.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
He's in the bed with you.
Speaker 9 (14:26):
Okay, so you get up, does he get up with you?
Speaker 5 (14:31):
He's still he's still asleeps on ever I whenever I
get up, but I go to uh, you know, the
bathroom and all that kind of stuff, and he's still sleeping, uh,
sleeping there.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
On the bed.
Speaker 6 (14:43):
But Crystal isn't there when he gets out.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Yes, I noticed, I mean I noticed that she wasn't there.
I didn't know what was I didn't know exactly what
to think. I don't know what time I called her. Yes,
I called her that morning.
Speaker 6 (14:53):
Gros takes his son to the farm, but his lack
of concern.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
For crystals whereabouts gives the detective pause, and he probes,
if I woke.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Up on a Saturday morning and my wife wasn't with
me in the bed as is normal.
Speaker 8 (15:09):
If she were not, probably the first thing I would
do would be to call her to find.
Speaker 9 (15:13):
Out where she was.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
You were hearing Brooks how the boyfriend of Crystal Rogers
the father of their child, and Detective snow, could you
play cut three one more time?
Speaker 8 (15:23):
I probably I probably woke up around you know, in
between that time May six or seven o'clock, and then
I left. You know, I got did my normal thing,
because you know, change my clothes, put my clothes on,
and and and headed out, you know shortly after that.
Speaker 10 (15:38):
You know, So you get up between six and seven,
and where's Eli at.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
When you wake up, he's next to me.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
He's in the bed with you.
Speaker 9 (15:47):
Okay, so you get up? Does he get up? With you.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
He's still He's still asleep on every eye whenever I
get up.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
But I go to uh, you know, the bathroom and
all that stuff, and he's still sleeping.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Sleeping there on the bed.
Speaker 6 (16:04):
But Crystal isn't there when he gets out.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Yes, I mean I know she wasn't there.
Speaker 8 (16:08):
I didn't know what was I didn't know exactly what
to I don't know what time.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
I called her. Yes, I called her that morning.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Brooks takes his son to the farm, but his lack
of concern for Crystal's whereabouts gives the detective pause.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
If I woke up on a Saturday morning and my
wife wasn't with me in the bed as is normal,
if she were not, probably the first thing I would
do would be to.
Speaker 9 (16:31):
Call her to find out where she was.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Seay, McAllister. I'm hearing them talking about the Hawk brothers.
There's more than one of them.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yes, there is. There are two Help brothers. There's Nick Help,
the older of the two. He was a Bargetown police
officer when Crystal went missing, and then his younger brother,
Brooks Help was Crystal's boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
So is he is the brother still with the police force.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
He is not. He was fired just a few months
after Crystal went missing. Nick and her feared with the investigation,
and he actually called his brother Brooks while he was
in an interrogation room with police.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
As a matter of fact, take a listen to this.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
The interview is interrupted when Brooks gets a call from
his older brother, Nick Hawk, the Bartstown police officer.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
I get this, you have.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
I'm up here. I know that you didn't know I'm
up here in this interview with the detective.
Speaker 8 (17:30):
Detective snow, I've been up here a good little while.
I'm feeling out this this statement here and everything?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Is it?
Speaker 8 (17:41):
Do you know you telling me that's you tell me
that's what I need to do.
Speaker 9 (17:46):
I know, I.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Know, don't I know, I'm not I know that. But
what if I look at it is I'm innocent. I
ain't done nothing wrong. Well you know, I know you
told me innocent. People have got jammed up. If you're
telling me to leave, I'll get up and leave if
you if you omitted, I don't know. I'm going to
do a lot, but I'm trying to get this guy
to help me. I don't think. I don't think she's
(18:09):
ran off with some other guy.
Speaker 8 (18:10):
If I don't believe that.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
You can't make me think that.
Speaker 8 (18:16):
I'll do exactly what you're telling me to do.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
You'll make it up and leave.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Well, that's exactly what he did. That's brooks Hout, the boyfriend,
the lover of Crystal Rogers now missing with Detective Snow.
And as a matter of fact, he did get up
and leave. Well, long story short, the Bardstown Police Chief
Rick McGavin hears that the officer officer how calls his
(18:45):
brother and tells him to leave. Listen.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
But news of that phone call eventually gets back to
Bardstown Police Chief Rick mccobbn and goes against everything his
owes of ethics stands for in his department.
Speaker 12 (18:57):
Nick wasn't being questioned, no, but what really got my
irish up was the fact that he called his brother
and I guess, you know, kind of encouraging him to,
you know, to leave, to get out of there. And
sure you and again let me get let me use
an example. You and your friend could call you and go, man, Jessica,
you need to shut up and leave. Nothing I can
do about it. Which friend's not a cop, your brother's
(19:21):
not a cop. And I told him, I said, that's
not how this profession rolls.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
You don't get to do that.
Speaker 6 (19:28):
I don't care if you're looking out for your brother
or not.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
You don't get to do that, you know, So that was,
you know, part of it.
Speaker 7 (19:33):
Well.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
As a matter of fact, After that, Nick Hawk's boss,
the police chief, orders him to talk to detectives, and
according to an FBI polygraph examiner who tells Nick Howck
in a police interrogation video, quote, it's pretty clear you
haven't told me the complete truth, and the questions you're
having problems with are questions about Crystal, in particular whether
(19:57):
or not you know where she is is right now,
Explain that to me, Jesskanal, what happened?
Speaker 7 (20:04):
So the FBI polygraph examiner tells Nick how the police
officer at that time, that he is not being truthful
with him, and that whole interaction just really begins to escalate,
and he at one point asks him as Nick is
(20:26):
getting audibly frustrated with him because he's calling him a
liar essentially, at one point, the FBI polygraph examiner says,
is this how you acted towards Crystal? And and he
obviously begins yelling at that point. So there is something
(20:50):
and you know, better than us, that polygraph examinations aren't
always one hundred percent, But there was something there was
enough of not telling the truth that set off their radar,
and that he was not being truthful when he was
(21:13):
talking about Crystal, about her disappearance, about Brooks possibly telling
him something about him having any involvement, he was not
being truthful according to their examination.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Take a listen to this.
Speaker 13 (21:26):
Well, Nick, I've had a chance to review in your
charts on that test, that first test you it did
not pass the test, and it's pretty clear to me
that you have held me really truth is that.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
The questions you're having a problem that there are.
Speaker 13 (21:37):
Questions about Christall and in particular one about whether or
not you know where she's.
Speaker 9 (21:41):
Right now, And I don't know.
Speaker 13 (21:45):
I treat police officers in these circumstances so like I
would myself, So I'm not going to go through all.
Speaker 9 (21:49):
The interview of terrogation nonsense. I think you and I
are in the same page.
Speaker 13 (21:54):
But at again, I'm also going to tell you the
completely true. As we're sitting here and it's no longer
matter I'm blundering.
Speaker 9 (22:01):
Do you know anything about what happened? We're past that now.
I mean now you have crystal clear with you. I
give everybody a good fair test. I'm no longer asking
you if you know you do Now what do you
want to do with that is entirely up to you.
I got yelling scream match you and get the sick
Woods phone book and all that. I'm talking to your manage.
Speaker 13 (22:19):
Man as a follow mforcenops or that the time has
come for you to think real hard about the rest
of your life.
Speaker 9 (22:28):
This is you. I'm I talk about broke everybody else,
and I'm telling you facts life. I'm an old guy
and I'm trying to.
Speaker 14 (22:33):
Be a father figure here.
Speaker 9 (22:34):
But I'll tell you doing this for twenty five years
the way that this fans out.
Speaker 13 (22:39):
But the FBI that gets involved in this investigation, or
you're listening one time, you don't have to say anything
to me.
Speaker 9 (22:44):
You do whatever you want to do.
Speaker 13 (22:46):
As I said, he may never even be in an
FBI agent, right, but once you get on the radar,
we don't go away unless there's a reason too. I
thought there would be the end past this, and there's
some other information there as well, So I guarantee.
Speaker 14 (23:02):
What I've got on all right, The f guy.
Speaker 13 (23:04):
Has unlimited resources in terms of forensic information, electronic information.
Many bodies want to pour attribute surveillance and look there
everything that's ever nine on the flue fine crystals.
Speaker 9 (23:19):
You heard that about that as a matter of what's.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Get On July fifteenth, twenty fifteen, detectives also revealed to
Nick they found bodily fluids inside his police cruiser the
day after he and Brooks leave the station together and
drive to their mom's farm.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
Have you ever heard of illuminol? You ever been any
kind of veigations?
Speaker 14 (23:38):
All right?
Speaker 4 (23:38):
You know what luminol's used for? Its fine blood?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Okay, or other.
Speaker 10 (23:44):
Fluid?
Speaker 4 (23:45):
Ok So, we always create.
Speaker 13 (23:48):
Bodily fluid, sweat, you know, vomit, anything, you know, salava.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
All that is is what would fluoresce?
Speaker 13 (23:56):
Would Why would your trunk look like a smurf if
they spray it while it flores the minit.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
He looked like Nobyl. There's gull spots in the trump
in that blanket, I mean, just live like Chernobyl. Why
would that? There's not one to be any blood in tronk?
Speaker 9 (24:11):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Well, and I say blood, I'm talking about other bodily fluids.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
I don't have you there shouldn't there shouldn't be anybody
bodily floods in the trunt.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
WHOA, it's not going to be any blood. Well that
tells me right there that there's a strong possibility she
was asphyxiated. She's not going to be any blood. That's
the first thing he said. And again everyone has said
they're not guilty, that they're innocent in this case, and
they have a right to a trial. By Jerry, when
did he report her missing?
Speaker 6 (24:38):
Brooks Hawk never reports her missing.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Actually, her mom reports her missing a few days later,
when she's had trouble reaching her over the phone, and
when she actually runs into Brooks how in town, she
asks Brooks, hey, have you seen Crystal? Where do you
think she is? And Brooks said, no, I haven't seen her.
(25:02):
And Sherry says, well, then I'm going to go report
her missing. And Brooks says, yeah, I think you should
do that.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Take a listen to Brooks house speaking to Detective Snow
on this very issue.
Speaker 6 (25:15):
Brooks runs into Crystal's mom.
Speaker 9 (25:17):
I met her mother at the gas station somewhere one
of these days.
Speaker 8 (25:22):
Her mother's Sherry, Crystal's mother, Sherry came up. Heurer my
window and asked me if I had seen Crystal, and when.
Speaker 10 (25:33):
You told her what, I haven't seen her, don't know
where she is, and she just said okay and asked me.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
That she thought that she thought that the wisest thing
for us to do was she said she's going to
go to the police station, and.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Then I went home.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Meanwhile, Crystal's mom files a missing person's report at the
Nelson County Sheriff's office around three pm. Two hours later,
her father, Tommy, gets a call Crystal's car has been
found along the Bluegrass Parkway. Tommy goes and uncovers her keys, phone,
and purse inside. Brooks tells detectives know that he wasn't
(26:10):
concerned until Sunday because she'd quote done this before.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Friends and family tell me there's no way Crystal would
ever have left her children, never ever ever. Crime Stories
with Nancy Grace, Crystal Rogers's boyfriend, Brooks Hawk, came on
(26:39):
to the NG Nancy Gray Show on HLM. I questioned
him about his behavior immediately following Crystal's disappearance. I didn't
like any of his answers, and apparently prosecutors agree that
taped episode will be entered into evidence by the state
(27:00):
joining me right now. In addition to her parents, saw
Tom and Sherry Ballard, her boyfriend that she lived with.
So Brooks, you go to bed and she's still playing
games on her phone. The next morning, around eight o'clock,
you notice that she's missing. Did you report her missing?
Speaker 4 (27:18):
No, ma'am.
Speaker 14 (27:19):
Why that is a great question and one that I
definitely want to hear the other public in the media.
I was not in the least little ditch along in
any way, shape or form. We have had a stress
relationship at times, and one of the ways that Crystal
(27:41):
has always chose to the coper to deal with that
is by going to a young woman's name Sabrina. That
is her cousin, her dad brother's daughter, whom she's very
close to.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
That she spent the night.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
There on several oc When you say several, do you
mean one three twenty in.
Speaker 14 (28:05):
The neighborhood of four to six Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Thomas Sherry Ballard, were you aware of that? Do you
know who Sabrina is?
Speaker 11 (28:12):
Yes, ma'am, that's my niece.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Okay. Did you know that she doesn't spend the night
over there when she's having an issue at home?
Speaker 4 (28:20):
I'm not on probably one time.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Right, Okay, I want to go back to Brooks Houck.
Let me ask you this. I know that you agreed
to take a polygraph? Did you pass?
Speaker 14 (28:31):
They because of the way that the lines or whatever
wrong that they may determined it to be what's called inconclusive.
I'm not exactly sure what that means, but they did
tell me it does mean that I wasn't flying, or
I didn't pass it, or I didn't fell it. They
just ruled it inconclusive. And that's exactly the way that
it stands. I've been one hundred percent completely honest with everyone.
(28:56):
I've been one hundred percent a cooperative in everything that
has been asked of me. I'm not asked for any
kind of legal advice or assistance or an attorney of
any nature. I'm one hundred percent completely innocent in this,
and I have exhausted my efforts with the law enforcement
(29:17):
agencies to gather all the facts necessary to allow me
to have a clean name again. And that's very important
to me.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
You are hearing, oh, who has been called the number
one suspect, Crystal Rogers lover Brooks help with me questioning him.
I find it very interesting that either he's not telling
me the truth or the FBI agent that truth. Polygraph
is not telling the truth because I was looking right
at the video when the agent that the poligrapher says,
(29:53):
you did not pass. Okay, that's not inconclusive. That's you
did not pass. But when I was questioning him, how
it says that it was inconclusive, basically blaming the test. Also,
I heard something very significant. Apparently. The first story was
they were up playing games like video games, I guess,
(30:13):
and then went to sleep. That's a far cry from
fading the cows.
Speaker 7 (30:17):
Jessica nol Brooks's story is that once they got home
from the farm, he went to bed and his son
stayed up with Crystal and Crystal played games on her
phone and that was the last time he saw her.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
It's an interest that has everyone's attention. Brooks.
Speaker 15 (30:34):
How Crystal Roger's boyfriend and the main suspect in her disappearance,
charged with her murder and tempering with physical evidence. According
to the indictment, the charge of stem from an incident
July fourth weekend of twenty fifteen, just days before Crystal's
car was found abandoned on the side of the Bluegrass
Parkway with her keys, phone and purse inside. He was
(30:55):
named the main suspect within three months, but never charged
until today.
Speaker 11 (31:00):
Why so long?
Speaker 1 (31:03):
You were just hearing our friends in whas for those
of you just joining us in the last hours, finally
unarrest in the murder of Crystal Rogers. And you know
what's so irritating, You know, Cheryl mccoum is joining me,
director of the Cold Case Research Institute and star of
a hitnew series Zone seven. When I hear and I've
(31:27):
heard it over and over, it's countless cases, Cheryl McCollum quote,
everybody knew. I mean since day one, everyone said, Brooks,
how is the killer? Why did it take so long?
And to you, Cheryl McCollum, have you ever had those cases?
And you have to tell every single witness it doesn't
(31:50):
matter what everybody says, because very often what everybody says
is not true. That's not the killer. It turns out
to be someone completely different. But in this case, it's true.
Since the whole thing went down, he has been suspect
number one.
Speaker 16 (32:08):
He's been suspect only one. There hasn't been anybody else.
But it's one of those situations. What you know and
what you could prove is not the same thing. So
they had to be patient. They had to work this
case from every angle, which is what they did. They
got him once for theft, they got people that were
close to him for perjury. They even pressed Grandma so
(32:30):
hard she invoked her Fifth Amendment. So they have worked
this thing beautifully. Yeah, as long as they possibly could.
Speaker 6 (32:39):
Take.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Listen to whas eleven federal investigators accused Helk of intentionally
causing the death of Crystal Runchers and destroying, concealing, mutilating,
or removing physical evidence in connection to the crime, He
was arrested without incident while on a job site outside
of Bardstown.
Speaker 6 (32:56):
This was the moment Brooks was put into handcuffs.
Speaker 11 (32:59):
My fires reaction was just Sherry and her family getting
the justice that they.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Have fought so much. For joining me right now, Anchor
wd RB out of Louisville, Fallon Glick, thank you for
being with us. Fallon, tell me about the arrest.
Speaker 17 (33:19):
Well Brooks, how Kerr former boyfriend. He was arrested at
a work site and then he was then taken to
the Nelson County jail. We have video of him and
handcuffed walking into the jail. It wasn't there very long,
but we did get a booking photo of him, and
then he was taken to another county jail. It's called
the Harding County Jail, and that is where he is
(33:40):
staying currently. And he's not going to get out unless
you posts that ten million dollars cash only bond.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Okay, ten million dollars cash bond, James Shelknett. That's unlike
a lot of bonds where you can put, for instance,
your house down is collateral, you get one hundred thousand
dollars bond. You got to come up with ten thousand
dollars money or collateral like a home. But a ten
million dollar bond that's not going to happen anytime soon.
Speaker 11 (34:10):
No, it's not going to happen anytime soon. And you
know a lot of times with severe cases you do
see a cash boar. But even with a cash bond,
that's a pretty high cash bond. They must feel pretty
confident in the case that they've got against them, and
so much the judge to set the bond that high,
I mean, get real shell nut.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
If the guy has managed to outsmart police for this
many years and the disappearance and death of his girlfriend,
Crystal Rogers. I wouldn't let him set one toe outside
of that jail house because he could very likely slip away.
Speaker 11 (34:43):
I wouldn't let him set outside the jail either. You know,
this guy has sat and committed potentially a crime against
the mother of five children. He's covered it up, He's
played games. And this guy's shown he's dangerous and he's
a danger to the community.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
And danger to any potential witnesses. Is why I would
let him out on bond. And you said the case
is so severe it calls for a high cash bond.
What do you mean by that? And what is a
cash bond as supposed to a regular bond, Shell.
Speaker 11 (35:13):
Nut, Well, it's severe because he's accused of murdering a
mother of five, of potentially covering this murder up taking steps.
Speaker 13 (35:22):
You know.
Speaker 11 (35:22):
Additionally, you know, we've got some implications as to involvement
in some other situations as well. And the cash bond
is set so that the judge can ensure that. Yeah,
I'm not giving him a no bond, So I'm going
to meet the basic constitutional requirements of providing bail. But
I will tell you this, if you're going to get out,
we're going to be pretty sure that you're coming back.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Okay, let me Q and A with myself for just
a moment. James shell Nutt was asked what's the difference
in a cash bond and regular bond? Again, in regular
bond you can put up collateral like the value of
your home. You can put up for instance, real estatem.
A cash bawn, you gotta have cold hard cash. Everything
(36:05):
else shell Nutt said, was dead on joining me. James
shell Nutt a high profile lawyer with the shell Nut Firm.
He's based in Alabama, but travels all over twenty seven
years on Metro major case at shell Nut Law Firm
dot com. Guys, this has been one long drawn out investigation.
(36:26):
I want you to take a listen to Monica Harkins WDRB.
Speaker 18 (36:30):
We saw the car pull in through the fence. As
he got out of the car, I asked, where is
Crystal Rogers. He didn't say anything. As he entered the
back of the jail, the Nelson County jailer was also
on hand. You can see that clearly as this unmarked
car goes through the gates. Around ten forty five Hawk
showed up here, but it was around eight forty five
this morning, the FBI of.
Speaker 6 (36:51):
Louisville posted about Hawke's arrest.
Speaker 18 (36:53):
Rogers was last seen in July of twenty fifteen. The
FBI post saying FBI and KSP have been laser folks
on their commitment to hold accountable those that were responsible
for the disappearance of Crystal Rogers, saying, quote, today we
take a significant step in making good on that promise.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
You know, Falling Glick joining me anchor wd RB. We
all heard FB I, why did the FBI have to
be brought in to solve this case? What about local
law enforcement?
Speaker 17 (37:27):
What's the problem, Falling Glick, Well, local law enforcement, the
sheriff's office, they have been on this since day one,
and I think they just didn't have enough resources to
pull this case together. And we know Sherry Ballor, the
mother of Crystal Rogers, she has been the true champion
for her daughter's case, keeping it in the spotlight. And
(37:48):
you know, very soon after her daughter disappeared, she asked
the FBI to come in, please take over this case.
And that didn't happen until five years later. So the FBI,
they've been on the case now for three years, and
when they come in that late they have more work
to do because they weren't there from day one, and
(38:09):
so it has taken a lot of time to pull
all this evidence together because we know they've executed so
many surge warrants at the Hawk family properties, the Hawk
Family farm, you know, that's the three hundred acre farm,
so they have been there several times. And then not
too long ago, they were at a home that Brooks
House has built and they dug up the driveway collected
(38:31):
a ton of evidence there. So the evidence that the
FBI has had to sort through is unimaginable. I know
the prosecutor is saying that they have to turn over
to terabytes worth of information in this case. So just
a lot to go through here.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Crystal Rogers' boyfriend came on to the NG Nancy Gray
Show on HLM. I didn't like any of his answers,
and apparently Peters agree that taped episode will be entered
into evidence by the state. Crystal Roger's body still not found.
(39:11):
We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off Goodbye Friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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