May 26, 2023 • 38 mins
Madeline Kingsbury is a mom of two and a professional. For the last three years, she has been working at the Mayo Clinic as "Clinical Research Coordinator for Public Health, Infectious Disease, and Occupational Medicine Research.
On the day Kingsbury vanished, she dropped her children off at daycare and then had a text exchange with her sister; one centered around a funny picture. There were other text messages sent to Kingsbury during the course of the day but no reply.
Later that day, Kingsbury didn't pick up her children. Turns out, she also didn't go to work that day.
Where is Madeline Kingsbury? As the investigation continues a highly respected prosecutor has been pulled out of retirement to help. Prosecutor Phil Prokopowicz will consult in the ongoing search for Kingsbury.
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Megan Kingsbury- Victims sister, Facebook: Finding Madeline Kingsbury, GoFundMe: gofundme.com/f/the-search-for-maddi
- Kathleen Murphy - North Carolina Family Attorney
- Julie Gates- Major Law Enforcement Crime Scene Investigator, Forensic Science Program Coordinator/Instructor: Southern Crescent Technical College
- Dr. Angela Arnold-Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA. Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women; Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology at Emory University; Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital
- Tracy Campbell- Public Relations Director, North Star International Search and Recovery (NSI) www.nsik9ta.org
- John Lauritsen- Reporter/CBS Minnesota (WCCO-TV, wcco.com, Twitter: @jdlauritsen
- John Lemley - Crime Online Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace and absolutely beautiful young Minnesota
mom is laughing and joking and texting with her sister,
and then suddenly she seemingly vanishes off the face of
(00:29):
the earth. Where is Madeline? I'm Nancy Grace. This is
Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at
Fox Nation in serious xem one eleven. First of all,
take a listen to our friends at GMA.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
The desperate search to find a missing Minnesota mom of
two who disappeared eight days ago.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Please help us find Madeline.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
The children need their mother went on a Police officials
say twenty six year old Madeline Maddie Kingsbury's disappearance is
suspicious and they are worried for her safety.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Our department and our law enforcement partners are working relentlessly
to find Maddie. Maddie, who's last seen in the morning
of Friday, March thirty. First, Maddie and the father of
their children drop the children off at daycare shortly after
eight am. Maddie did not show up for work, which
is very unlike her, and we are worried for her safety.
(01:21):
During the course of our investigation, we know that Maddy
returned to her residence at Carry Drive and went on
up around eight fifteen am on March thirty first. The
vehicle that Maddy normally drives is a twenty fourteen dark
blue Chrysler town Country Mini.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
There you know, when you don't know where to start
or what to do, just imagine put yourself in the
shoes of this beautiful young mom's family. Everything seems fine,
and then out of the blue they realize we haven't
heard from Maddie. Who is Mattie. That's where you start
an investigation with your You are just hearing not only
(02:02):
our friends at GMA, but also Chief Tom Wilson of
the Wenona Police Department. But now take a listen to
what we know about who is Mattie.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
On Mother's Day twenty twenty two, Madeline Kingsbury wrote on
Facebook quote being a mother has been my greatest adventure.
I could have sworn they were little, both newborns on
my chest yesterday. Happy Mother's Day to all you Mama
is out there. Madeline Kingsbury, known to her friends and
family as Mattie, is a twenty six year old mother
of two five year old daughter Eleana two year old
(02:32):
son Noah. For the last three years she's been working
at the Mayo Clinic. According to her LinkedIn profile, Mattie
is a clinical research coordinator for public Health, infectious Disease
and Occupational medicine research at Mayo Clinic, with a demonstrated
history of working in human subjects research. Mattie attained her
bachelor's science degree in public health healthcare administration from Monona
State University in twenty nineteen, and she was working toward
(02:55):
a master's degree in public health from the University of
Minnesota School of Public Health. And in the last month
she was also looking for childcare providers with openings for
this summer. Safe to say, Maddie is a very busy woman.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Wow, she didn't just fall off the turnip truck. Huh. Guys,
I got an all star panel to make sense of
what we know right now. But I'm going to go
first to a renowned psychiatrist joining us out of the
Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at Angela Arnold MD
dot com. Doctor Angie. Did you hear what our friends
at crime online dot com just said about Madeline Kingsbury.
(03:30):
This woman, she's twenty six years old with two children,
is already working at the most renowned one of the
most renowned facilities in the world, at the Mayo Clinic,
and she is in clinical research. Not only that, she
(03:50):
has two children she's raising and juggling all of that
all at the same time. Now, all of that is amazing,
but I'm trying to figure out where is Madeline. And
the first thing you do when you look at your victim,
where would she have been? Well, she apparently goes to
(04:10):
work and she comes home to be with her children.
Work at home, work at home, completely devoted to her children,
and to work at Mayo Clinic. You can't be a slacker.
You got to be there on time, bright eyed and bushytail,
ready to go. So this is not a woman that.
Oh yet she had a drug problem. So maybe she's
(04:31):
with her supplying her or maybe she's out, you know,
pedling dope on the corner, or she's a boozer. Last
time I saw her, they were it was the last
call at the bar down the street. No risky behavior
at all. Could you explain why that's so significant when
a woman goes missing.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
Well, also, Nancy, let's point out that she has future plans.
She has future plans to get her MPH, her master's
in public health, which is no, which is no easy
thing to acquire. Okay, if the listeners out there don't
understand what that means, you get a master's in public
health is a very difficult to degree to get.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Okay, Actually, doctor Angie, I don't. I mean I have
a master's and my yours doctor, but I don't know
what is a master's in public health.
Speaker 5 (05:21):
Oftentimes you get that degree if you do want to
be in the research field in academics, and it's a
it's a very I'm just telling you, it's a very
difficult degree to get, to be admitted to and to acquire.
So this woman has some very some very big future
plans for herself. She's not a secretary, not that there's
(05:44):
anything wrong with being a secretary, but she has a
very big job at the Mayo Clinic, which she is
planning to extend. She's planning to make her job bigger
at the Mayo Clinic. So, no, this is not a person.
You don't play around in academics. You don't not show
up for work. There are a lot of people depending
on her. People depend on her to get their grants
(06:06):
sent there at the proper time and things like that.
So I'm sure she had a schedule that she kept.
I'm sure that she was. You know, she drops her
kids off, she goes to work. She's a working mom.
She's a working mom with a very big job, and
people and a lot of people depend on her in
that job that she's doing.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
All Donia, you just says something really really important, and
I'm going to follow it with Julie Gase, John Lawrence
and joining me from CBS there in Minnesota, WCC. I'm
getting right to you, and also with a special guest,
Meghan Kingsbury. This is Madeline's sister. Hold On just a second.
I want to follow up with something doctor Angie just
said regarding her schedule. Hold On, let me make a
note of exactly what I wanted to say. But doctor Angie,
(06:48):
I agree with you about being a secretary. You know,
my mom started off as a secretary and at a
pulp and paper company. She went on to run the
payroll and then turn into the CFO of a fortune
five hundred company one of their plans. So you know,
I wouldn't snibble at being a secretary. That said, I
(07:10):
agree with everything else that you just said. Julie Gates,
Major Law enforcement, crime scene investigator, forensic science program coordinator
and instructor at the Southern Crescent Technical College, and joining
her today is her entire class of I guess criminal
procedure students. Julie, thank you for being with us. Did
you hear what doctor Angela Arnold said? Everything she said
(07:34):
was correct, but I'm especially hinged on what she said
regarding Madeline Kingsbury's schedule. So this is a woman that
runs research or part of it at the Mayo Clinic.
She's raising two children, she's in the middle of working
on her master's degree. Julie, I don't know if this
(07:57):
is the right way or the wrong way to live,
if there is such a thing. But I actually have
to divide my day starting at five am, into fifty
minute increments until I pick up my twins from school.
Then everything's off. But a lot of that sounds crazy
to a lot of people, But to a high achiever
(08:21):
like this woman, Madeline Kingsbury, I bet she had segmented
times of the day. This is when I get up.
This is when I make the breakfast for the children.
This is when I wake them up. This is when
I feed the cat and the dog and the guinea pigs.
This is when I give them their breakfast. This is
what time we leave or drop off. This is what
time I get home, this is what time I go
(08:42):
to work, and then on and on until she picks
them up from school. Significance Julie Gates, we know where
to find her because she must be a very highly
regimented person to do everything she's doing.
Speaker 6 (08:57):
It seems like she's very detailed and schedule oriented. So
I do agree that, yeah, she's probably on a schedule
that you know, she takes her kids to school this time,
and you know everyone's depending on her. So yeah, she
does have a schedule in a regime that she would
follow daily.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Okay, Julie Gates, you are an incredible forensic investigators. Investigator,
I don't need an echo chamber. I just said that.
I want you to tell me how that translates into
finding a missing woman. We know her schedule. She's highly regimented.
It's not like she's just wandering around walking circles at
the mall all day.
Speaker 6 (09:35):
Nobody goes to victimology. I have to look at her victimology.
You know what, who she's with, what she's doing during
the day, you know that schedule does help.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
That man, you're not kidding. It kind of a it's
not a kneel and a haystack. You kind of know
where to start. Time stories with Nancy Grace. Who is
(10:10):
this woman? And how at one moment was she laughing
and talking and joking, sending funny pictures back and forth
to her sister And the next thing the sister says, Mom,
have you heard from Mattie? And joining me right now?
Is that sister Megan Kingsbury. And you can find her
on Facebook finding Madeline Kingsbury and go fundme, Go fund
(10:35):
me the search for Mattie and there they spell it
M A D D I not Madeline Megan Kingsbury. First
of all, I want to tell you how much my
heart's going out to you. I have one sister and
she lives far away, and when I don't hear from her, say,
in a week, I get worried and I cannot. She's
(10:56):
the closest thing to me. And I'm sorry what you're
going to Megan, We all are thank you.
Speaker 7 (11:05):
Yeah, she's my best friend.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Goys.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
I hardly know where to start, but you know what,
Let's hear Megan in her own words, describing her sister, Listen.
Speaker 8 (11:17):
Madeline is a hard working and dedicated mother as well
as a grad student at the U of M and
works for the Male Clinic. Family is everything to her.
She's grown into an impressive and beautiful young woman. Madeline
is many things.
Speaker 9 (11:33):
She's a mother, sister, and daughter, best friend, granddaughter, and
a niece. It's a long list. She's a young mother
of to five year old Eleanna two year old Noah.
Ellie is spunky and goofy. She loves to be crafty
and creative. She's inherited her mother's kindness and curiosity about
(11:54):
the world. Little Noah has turned into a chatterbox. I
can't tell what he sets up the time. He loves
to dance, he loves rock.
Speaker 8 (12:02):
And roll, and he was blessed with the red headed
gene for my grandfather.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Megan. First of all, tell me about your sister's children.
Her two babies. I believe they are. I guess they're
in preschool, right, yeah.
Speaker 7 (12:21):
Ellie attended a Montessori preschool in Winona, and then Noah
went to in home daycare and Winona as well.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Tell me about her relationship with her children.
Speaker 7 (12:34):
They were the light of her life. Constantly with them, constantly,
you know, trying to discover new things to teach them.
She really encouraged them to be their own little people.
She was very much a yes mom, you know, wanted
(12:55):
them to experience everything.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
You know, just thinking about them, one is to and
one is five. How are they reacting to mommy not
being there every single day?
Speaker 7 (13:07):
You know? Fortunately they're very young, so especially Noah, you know,
he's only two. As far as them, you know, asking
about her once in a while. But they're they're doing
really well, I'm right now. So as as far as
(13:32):
we can tell, they haven't you know, really noticed any
any big difference.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
They must be surrounded by a lot of love right now, yes,
and not even realize that anything is out of the norm.
Guys listened to more.
Speaker 10 (13:45):
Since her first child was born, which is five years ago. Now,
you know, I talked to her multiple times on a
daily basis FaceTime, phone, text, and the rest of my family.
She's just in constant communication with us about every minute detail.
(14:07):
So it's very unlike her. The last communication that I
had with her was the morning of Friday, March thirty.
Speaker 7 (14:16):
First.
Speaker 10 (14:17):
She had sent me a text at about eight fifteen
in the morning regular text for her. We were chuckling
about a funny photo exchanged between us, and that was
the last communication with me or with any of my
family or her other friends.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
You're hearing Madeline's sister Mega speaking to our friends at
Thoughts and Friends. Megan, So you guys were exchanging texts
early that morning, as early as eight fifteen.
Speaker 7 (14:48):
Yeah, you know, we both start early in the morning.
I personally I start work at seven am, so and
she's up with the kids. So yeah, pretty much every morning,
it's pretty pretty early contact with us.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Let me understand her schedule, Megan. With me is Megan Kingsbury.
This is Madeline's sister, very very close relationship. You just
heard her say. They texted or talked every day, Megan
in the morning, so she would get up. Would she
always drop the children one at the home daycare and
(15:25):
one at the Montessori?
Speaker 7 (15:27):
Ellie went to the monassory gosh, I think maybe two
or three days a week. The other days she went
to the same in home daycare as.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Noah, and Madeline would be the one to drop them off.
Speaker 7 (15:38):
Yeah. Sometimes I think their father joined as well. I
wasn't quite clear on how often, but she definitely would
always be.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
There, so it's always her. Now, who would pick them up?
Speaker 7 (15:51):
I think typically it would be her or both parents.
I think it kind of depended on her schedule.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
But almost always her, and maybe the dad would also come. Yes, okay,
the day that she went missing, who picked them up?
Speaker 11 (16:06):
Their father?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Okay, so that was covered. I was just imagining a
nightmare of the children, like standing outside for pickup and
nobody being there. Of course, Noah's too young to do that. Guys,
we're trying to figure out what happened. Now. You exchanged
a text with her early that morning at megan eight fifteen.
Did you hear from her after that?
Speaker 7 (16:29):
I did not?
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Was that normal?
Speaker 6 (16:31):
No?
Speaker 7 (16:31):
I mean, even if she can't talk or she's busy,
she'll send a message saying, so hey, I'm busy, I'll
talk to you later.
Speaker 12 (16:39):
But no, I didn't.
Speaker 7 (16:40):
I didn't get anything else.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
And that was March thirty one, correct, Yes, okay, March
thirty one. She goes missing. Last scene that morning, eight fifteen,
last heard from that morning at eight fifteen. Joining me
right now is investigative reporter out of Minnesota CBS WCCOTV,
John Lordson. John, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 13 (17:00):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Oh yes, tell me about the area. Is this rural suburban.
Speaker 13 (17:05):
Well, Wenona is home to Wenona State. It's a decent
sized town as far as Minnesota goes. This is in
the southeastern portion of the state.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Now, wait a minute, where is that as it relates
to the Tri cities?
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Are that?
Speaker 13 (17:16):
Well, Minneapolis St.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Paul.
Speaker 13 (17:17):
This is a couple hours about two and a half
hours southeast of Minneapolis St. Paul. Okay, right across the
border from Wisconsin is where Wenona's were located. So you
had a lot of searchers and volunteers coming from western
Wisconsin as well to help look for Matteline.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
As part of Wanona in Wisconsin.
Speaker 13 (17:35):
It is not, No, it's right across the border. Literally
right across the border.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Got it. Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 13 (17:40):
Yeah. The terrain you're asking about is really mixed, and
it's a beautiful part of the state. Really, there's bluff
country down there.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I don't like that. I don't like anything you just said.
You know what, when I hear the words John Lords
in beautiful terrain, you know that translates to me hard
to find, densely wooded forests, mountainous on dirt roads, very
low traverse areas. Is that what you're saying about beautiful
(18:07):
because that's really hard to find somebody.
Speaker 13 (18:08):
And some person is Yeah, it's kind of an eclectic
blend of terrain because on Friday when we were there,
and on Saturday as well, there's a lot of farm
fields that they were walking through as well. And you
know there are teams of twelve a dozen or so
volunteers that were showing up from all over the area,
very coordinated on Friday and then again on Saturday walking
(18:30):
through farm fields. But yes, the chief from Monona Police
did talk about that. He said that the terrain is
a mix and definitely as you mentioned Nancy the Bluff area,
he talked about that being a challenge. The hills, Yeah,
the steep terrain in some cases, and he did highlight
that is a challenge.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
John Morrison, w CCA joining us, Thank you again for
making time for us. What's the population isn't it under
fifty thousand?
Speaker 7 (18:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 13 (18:56):
I believe it is. And where a lot of this
search has been caught that there's a couple of little
towns involved. Goodview, Minnesota is right next to Wndona that
was a headquarters last week as well lay last week
for a lot of volunteers to show up. There's a
little town called Rushford, which isn't too far away. I
believe it's about twenty miles west where they were also searching.
I had a coordinated search there as well, and I
(19:18):
want to say last week and it was nearly three
thousand people that showed up to help. That was Easter weekend.
I've covered a few of these sadly over the years,
but this is one of the larger coordinated efforts in
talking with people that didn't know Madeline but still coming
out because they're a parent, or they knew somebody who
(19:39):
knew her, or they were a friend of hers, whatever
it might be. You have people from all over, as
I mentioned, western Wisconsin, southeastern Minnesota. It felt like there
were bustload upon bustload that Friday morning and then again
in the afternoon, and then again on Saturdays. So it
was impressive to see that.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Joining US Public Relationship Directory, Northstar International Search and Recovery, Tracy,
thank you for being with us. I know that that
strikes fear in your heart when you hear about this
terrain and a low population. Now low population in one
way means that it reduces the number of potential suspects,
(20:22):
if any, involved in Madeline's disappearance. But that terrain, if
she went for a hike, if she went for a walk,
that's going to be very difficult to find her. What
would you be doing right now, Tracy Campbell, Well, I saw.
Speaker 11 (20:38):
The fields that they were searching, and a ligne search
depending on the terrain you know we have. I don't
know what their resources are.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
First of all, tell everybody what is a line search
that you just said?
Speaker 11 (20:50):
How they're walking straight in a line? So typically, first
of all, they had three thousand people respond volunteers. That
can be a that's wonderful, but it also can be
very stressful because a search and recovery team they've got experience,
they've been through classes, they know what to look for clues.
(21:13):
You don't always know what a civilian will. So typically
you would take a team leader, somebody that's from the
search team, and maybe pair them up with twelve or
so civilian searchers and that would be your line. That way,
if they had any questions, if they saw something but
(21:34):
they weren't sure whether it was relevant, they could ask
somebody on a search and rescue team exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
And you know Megan Kingsbury joining us is Megan Kingsbury
Madeline sister. When what goes through your mind when you're
hearing us talking about searching this terran.
Speaker 7 (21:51):
You know, I've been out searching myself in some more
kind of remote areas, wildlife preserves, things like that. I
you know, I've been down to visit. I've seen the
difficulty in the terrain and just I kind of look
around and I'm like, well, she could be anywhere, and
it's it's hard to know where to start, and a
(22:13):
lot of people just aren't able to search that terrain effectively.
So it definitely worries me every day.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Would you go to bed at night, what are your
thoughts about where is your sister?
Speaker 7 (22:27):
Just last night i was outside and I looked up
at the sky and I'm just wondering if she out
there somewhere under the same sky, Like where where could
she be? It's a million things run through my mind
every night, and you know, you want to hold on
to a chance of hope that you know she's found, Okay,
(22:49):
It's difficult. The longer that that this goes on.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
To John Lordson joining US CBS Minnesota, w c CEO.
Was there any history of just quote taking break or
needing time to herself, anything like that, because I haven't
found it.
Speaker 13 (23:05):
No, not that we're aware of. I'm sure Meghan and
the family would be able to speak to that.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Megan, is there any such history?
Speaker 11 (23:11):
There's not.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah. I mean Kathleen Murphy joining me right now, courtroom,
veteran out of North Carolina family lawyer. She's at NC
Domestic Law dot com. Kathleen Murphy. It would be a
cold day in Hgublel that I took time for myself
and left my children. That's not happening.
Speaker 12 (23:29):
That's not happening, Nancy.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
No, that's not happening. This mom didn't go away for
the weekend, didn't need me time. There was no like
spa time and those mudbaths and massages and hot stones
on your back and all that that. No, she worked
and she took care for children. That was her life
and so that makes should make it easiest for us
(23:52):
to find her.
Speaker 12 (23:53):
But young babies, you're going to be in those hotspots.
You're going to be at the daycare, You're going to
be at the grocery store, you're going to be at
the house, They're going to nap. You're going to be
in the same places over and over again. As a
mother of four, you're a mother of twins. You know
the routine. Her family knows the routine. It's not rocket science.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
At this point, Guys, you're hearing the voice of Kathleen Murphy,
who has worked with us on missing persons cases. But guys,
I want you to hear more of what we know
about Madeline. Listen.
Speaker 10 (24:27):
There was some concern the evening of Friday, March thirty. First,
my mom actually sent me a message asking if I
had heard from my sister that day, because my mom
had sent some messages that had no response. And when
(24:48):
she said that, I was kind of like, oh, yes,
I guess you're right. She was supposed to come visit
my house the next morning with her daughter, and typically,
you know, we would have discussed those since it was
coming up. So it was that evening and we started
kind of connecting with her friends and seeing if anyone
had heard from her.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Megan Kingsbury is Madeline's sister, joining us shedding light into
the search for her sister. Megan, how far away from
Madeline do you live?
Speaker 7 (25:16):
I live in the Minneapolis area, so it's about two hours.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
From her home in Lenona. So to plan a trip,
this isn't like she's just going around the corner. This
was something she'd have to get the children ready in
the car, snacks, all that, and then drive two hours
to see you and your family. Correct, right, So that
was a plan. Interesting and no history at all of
(25:39):
just leaving to go for a girl's weekend or time alone.
Nothing like that, right, right.
Speaker 7 (25:45):
I mean, if she needed a break, she'd come to
my house, but she'd still bring the kids and you know,
we'd kind of tag team and watch them. But no,
she never would would leave them.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
So that evening, your mother notices she hasn't heard from
your sister, And back to Kathleen Murphy joining US high
profile lawyer out of North Carolina. Kathleen, that's routine evidence.
And I don't mean standard, typical pumdrum routine. I mean
evidence of someone's routine. And I'm stressing that again for
(26:16):
the third time because it's very important. By that evening,
when sister and mother have not heard from her, they
know something's up. Much less she didn't go to work
that day and she didn't pick the.
Speaker 12 (26:27):
Children up and creating those timelines are going to be
so important to investigators, Nancy, the timeline from that family
is going to be key in placing the location of
Mattie and anybody else that could be associated.
Speaker 11 (26:43):
With her disappearance.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 12 (26:45):
So, for example, if Mattie is going into work and
that's her routine immediately after dropping the children off, why
did she go home? Why did she go home? And
why was it ten o'clock when her husband or the
father of her children took that vehicle. Those are questions
that has to be answered.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
You're absolutely correct, and as a matter of fact, take
a listen to our friend Jacqueline Lee.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
According to police, Mattie was last seen at home last
Friday at approximately eight fifteen in the morning after dropping
her two children off with their father at daycare.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
The father told police he left.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Mattie's house at about ten am in her dark blue
Chrysler minivan. When he returned later that day, he says
she was not home. A minivan resembling hers was seen
that same morning driving along a nearby county road between
ten thirty am and one thirty pm. Investigators have searched
the minivan and Mattie's home. Inside the house, they found
(27:38):
her phone and her wallet.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
I just was trying not to panic.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Mattie's sister Megan last texted her that morning and everything
seemed fine.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace take a listen to our
friend Jacqueline Lee.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
According to police, Mattie was last seen at home last
Friday at approximately eight fifteen in the morning, after dropping
her two children off with their father at daycare. The
father told police he left Mattie's house at about ten
am in her dark blue Chrysler minivan. When he returned
later that day, he says she was not home. A
(28:28):
minivan resembling hers was seen that same morning driving along
a nearby county road between ten thirty am and one
thirty pm. Investigators have searched the minivan and Mattie's home.
Inside the house, they found her phone and her wallet.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
I just was trying not to panic.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Mattie's sister, Megan last texted her that morning and everything
seemed fine.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Okay, let's go straight back out to our investigative reporter
John Lords and joining us WCCOTV there in Minnesota. Let
me understand what I just heard from our friends at
Gma Jacqueline Lee. Now that morning a fifteen, that's when
she's texting with her sister Megan. She and the bio
dad drop the children at daycare. He tells cops he
(29:13):
left Maddie's house about ten a m. For some reason
in her minivan. Okay, let me understand that was where
the decision was made that she'd not go to work,
because that's when she would go to work. I understand
between eight, you know, after she drops the children, But no,
did he bring her back to the house. Is that
what he's saying.
Speaker 13 (29:31):
That's what we understand through law enforcement. That's what he
told them.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Then he takes the Chrysler and then when he comes
back with it, I don't know what to fill it with, gas.
I'm not sure he gets back at ten am and
she's not there. Is that correct?
Speaker 13 (29:43):
He claims he laughed and came back and believe in
the afternoon and she was not there. Now, law enforcement
is telling us there's no evidence she was picked up
by anybody else, or that she might have just left
the home and walked somewhere. That's according to the Windowana
pleased you well?
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Is that the terrain Megan Kingsbury would she just leave
and walk somewhere?
Speaker 7 (30:03):
No, I mean where her house is kind of situated.
She's not really within walking distance of you know, like
a target or anything.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Does she walk, jog or bike anything like that?
Speaker 7 (30:13):
You know, she used to jog. I think it's been
a while, but she did used to jog.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
In the past, but not recently. No, I don't believe so,
So I'm just trying to figure out. We were covering
the case of Eliza Fletcher, a Memphis mom who was
at like four o'clock in the morning jogging. That was
her routine, you know, And a lot of terrains, like
you go out on the street, it's like I seventy five,
you can't walk or jog or bike there. Or it
could be a country road like Molly Tibbets where she
(30:40):
would run every day. So is a terrain near her?
Did she have a home apartment? Condo?
Speaker 13 (30:46):
What?
Speaker 7 (30:47):
They lived in? A town home? It was kind of
one of those divided in half one so they had
a connected neighbor.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Okay, and the biodas living in the home. Correct, Yeah, okay,
so he leaves with the car. Yeah, you're right, You're right, lordson,
I had that ten thirty am in my head that
he came back, but her vehicle was side between ten
thirty and one thirty PM. That's where I'm getting ten
thirty Is that correct?
Speaker 13 (31:14):
That is correct?
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yes, who sided her vehicle?
Speaker 13 (31:16):
That was spotted around town? I believe there's more than
one witness to that. And now what law enforcement was
trying to get people to do, and we've been down there,
is have people check that it's called the Highway of
forty three corridor. That's where that van has been spotted
or was spotted around that time.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Are a dark MENI van CHRYSTL or what is it?
A Chrysler PACIFICA town and country right, town and country?
Multiple signings of her van around town, But did anybody
say who was driving it?
Speaker 13 (31:43):
Not that we have been told yet. And what they're
asking people to do is we've talked about the terrain
quite a bit and just that area it can get
rural pretty quick. So they're asking people to look at
their doorbell camera, see if they can see who is driving,
see if the van went by their home, trail cameras.
There's a lot of you know, wooded areas. As we
(32:04):
talked about out there, people have trail cameras set up?
Did your trail camera catch this van on a roadway
when you're kind of having it going down a path
looking for wildlife? Was there a road behind there where
you saw the van going through? What time was it?
Can you see who was driving?
Speaker 1 (32:20):
What about cameras in town? You said Highway forty three
corridor and when you said around town, what town Winona?
Speaker 13 (32:29):
Yeah? Correct?
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Aren't there red light cams and business cams.
Speaker 13 (32:34):
Business cameras, surveillance camera, security cameras, whatever you got law
enforcement that wants to know about it?
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Well, aren't they getting it? Aren't they confiscating it from
businesses and red lights? Before? Does nobody remember Chandra Levy? Yeah,
and her apartment complex before she went out and was
attacked and murdered. Every seventy two hours they roll over
the table, it starts over. You got to get it
immediately before it starts rolling over.
Speaker 13 (33:00):
And they might have some already they just have not disclosed.
I think Megan talked about that earlier. Is you know
the investigation they're being they're keeping it very close to
their best, but yeah, they're definitely asking for anybody else
that had maybe something out there that wasn't so obvious.
The businesses are one thing, and the homes near there
is another. But in some of these rural areas around
(33:21):
that top line and around that vicinity, if they had
a trail camera, if they had a doorbell camera, if
they had a security camera, did you see this van
go buying? Can you tell who was driving? And they
want that.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
John Laws, and you're telling me people in the town
of Winona, I think they saw not just a blue
town and country her blue town and country. Is that
what they think that?
Speaker 13 (33:50):
That's the law enforcement that told us they believe that van.
More than one person saw that van driving in that timeframe.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
We talked about what was distinct about her vangan, what
if anything is to stink John, anybody jump in and
tell me? Well?
Speaker 13 (34:03):
And the fact that it was a Town and Country
Chrysler van, And honestly, Nancy, I don't know how popular
those are in Wenona, Minnesota. But that's in that time
frame that van was spotted. Uh, And that's an excellent question.
Is that van? Do we know if that was hers?
For sure? I'm guessing what law enforcement says it is.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Megan Casebury, what about it? What about her van?
Speaker 6 (34:26):
You know?
Speaker 10 (34:27):
They have.
Speaker 7 (34:28):
The law enforcement has some footage from a gas station
in Rushford, Minnesota. I believe it was a quick trip
of the van coming and going, so I know for
sure they've they've seen it in Rushford. Other than that,
I haven't heard if there's been any other footage. I
know they're looking at semi trucks. Those have cameras kind
(34:51):
of all around. They're they're really trying any avenue to
see if they can get footage.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Where's Rushford as it relates to Anona close? Yeah, twenty
mins that would make And what time of the day
was her van spotted in Rushford?
Speaker 7 (35:07):
I want to stay probably between like ten thirty and
eleven is.
Speaker 13 (35:12):
Yeah, I believe you're right on that. I think it
was in the morning, still before the new Homer that
that was spotted.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
But what time does Biodet say he brought the car back?
Speaker 7 (35:22):
I believe that he said he returned home around one pm,
so that could have been him driving around. That doesn't
really help us, does it.
Speaker 13 (35:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Okay, where is the vehicle right now?
Speaker 13 (35:36):
John Lawrenson, law enforcement has searched that vehicle. I do
not know if they gave that back to the family.
Speaker 7 (35:42):
Do you know, Megan, I believe law enforcement still has
the vehicle, still.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Has the vehicle? Okay. To Julie Yate joining us a
crime scene investigator and instructor, Julie, what do you make
of this regarding them still having the vehicle?
Speaker 6 (36:02):
I would they still had the vehicle in their possession
because that is one of the key pieces of evidence.
I would say right now.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
To Tracy Campbell joining us with North st Our International
Search and Recovery, I believe that the vehicle, especially why
the fact that law enforcement is still holding onto it
must have some sort of forensic evidence in it. I agree, Okay,
Kathleen Murphy, what do we do now?
Speaker 12 (36:25):
I think we take an inventory of what's in there.
I also, Nancy, have a question about whether or not
a search warrant has been effectuated for the home that
they were living in. And another question that we have
is whether or not Madeline was looking for another place
to live. I saw on her Facebook page that she
(36:47):
had posted that she was looking for a new place
to live in aple.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Or May to MEGANE. Kingsbury, your sister posted that is
that correct that she was looking for a new place
to live?
Speaker 7 (36:56):
Yes, that's correct. Why her and the father of the
children were not continuing their relationships.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
They were splitting.
Speaker 7 (37:06):
Yes, so she was looking for a new place close
to where she already lived, close to the daycare, close
to the preschool. I know she was looking over in Goodview,
which is the next town over.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
So yeah, she was looking for a new place, Nancy.
Speaker 14 (37:22):
If I could jump in for just a moment, this
is John Lemley in the Crime Online news room. We're
now learning that a special prosecutor has been hired by
Wenona County law enforcement to assist in the search for
Madeline Kingsbury. Madeleine's sister has revealed that Philip Prokopovich is
currently collaborating with law enforcement about Madeleine's disappearance and he'll
(37:43):
help if charges are brought against anyone. Prokopovich served as
Dakota County's previous Chief Deputy County Attorney.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Guys, the family of Malan Kingsbury has now issued a
fifty thousand dollars reward thousand dollar reward tip line five
zero seven four five seven six two eight eight repeat
five zero seven four five seven six two eight eight
(38:12):
Please help us find Madeline. Goodbye, friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace and absolutely beautiful young Minnesota
mom is laughing and joking and texting with her sister,
and then suddenly she seemingly vanishes off the face of
(00:29):
the earth. Where is Madeline? I'm Nancy Grace. This is
Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at
Fox Nation in serious xem one eleven. First of all,
take a listen to our friends at GMA.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
The desperate search to find a missing Minnesota mom of
two who disappeared eight days ago.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Please help us find Madeline.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
The children need their mother went on a Police officials
say twenty six year old Madeline Maddie Kingsbury's disappearance is
suspicious and they are worried for her safety.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Our department and our law enforcement partners are working relentlessly
to find Maddie. Maddie, who's last seen in the morning
of Friday, March thirty. First, Maddie and the father of
their children drop the children off at daycare shortly after
eight am. Maddie did not show up for work, which
is very unlike her, and we are worried for her safety.
(01:21):
During the course of our investigation, we know that Maddy
returned to her residence at Carry Drive and went on
up around eight fifteen am on March thirty first. The
vehicle that Maddy normally drives is a twenty fourteen dark
blue Chrysler town Country Mini.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
There you know, when you don't know where to start
or what to do, just imagine put yourself in the
shoes of this beautiful young mom's family. Everything seems fine,
and then out of the blue they realize we haven't
heard from Maddie. Who is Mattie. That's where you start
an investigation with your You are just hearing not only
(02:02):
our friends at GMA, but also Chief Tom Wilson of
the Wenona Police Department. But now take a listen to
what we know about who is Mattie.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
On Mother's Day twenty twenty two, Madeline Kingsbury wrote on
Facebook quote being a mother has been my greatest adventure.
I could have sworn they were little, both newborns on
my chest yesterday. Happy Mother's Day to all you Mama
is out there. Madeline Kingsbury, known to her friends and
family as Mattie, is a twenty six year old mother
of two five year old daughter Eleana two year old
(02:32):
son Noah. For the last three years she's been working
at the Mayo Clinic. According to her LinkedIn profile, Mattie
is a clinical research coordinator for public Health, infectious Disease
and Occupational medicine research at Mayo Clinic, with a demonstrated
history of working in human subjects research. Mattie attained her
bachelor's science degree in public health healthcare administration from Monona
State University in twenty nineteen, and she was working toward
(02:55):
a master's degree in public health from the University of
Minnesota School of Public Health. And in the last month
she was also looking for childcare providers with openings for
this summer. Safe to say, Maddie is a very busy woman.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Wow, she didn't just fall off the turnip truck. Huh. Guys,
I got an all star panel to make sense of
what we know right now. But I'm going to go
first to a renowned psychiatrist joining us out of the
Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at Angela Arnold MD
dot com. Doctor Angie. Did you hear what our friends
at crime online dot com just said about Madeline Kingsbury.
(03:30):
This woman, she's twenty six years old with two children,
is already working at the most renowned one of the
most renowned facilities in the world, at the Mayo Clinic,
and she is in clinical research. Not only that, she
(03:50):
has two children she's raising and juggling all of that
all at the same time. Now, all of that is amazing,
but I'm trying to figure out where is Madeline. And
the first thing you do when you look at your victim,
where would she have been? Well, she apparently goes to
(04:10):
work and she comes home to be with her children.
Work at home, work at home, completely devoted to her children,
and to work at Mayo Clinic. You can't be a slacker.
You got to be there on time, bright eyed and bushytail,
ready to go. So this is not a woman that.
Oh yet she had a drug problem. So maybe she's
(04:31):
with her supplying her or maybe she's out, you know,
pedling dope on the corner, or she's a boozer. Last
time I saw her, they were it was the last
call at the bar down the street. No risky behavior
at all. Could you explain why that's so significant when
a woman goes missing.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
Well, also, Nancy, let's point out that she has future plans.
She has future plans to get her MPH, her master's
in public health, which is no, which is no easy
thing to acquire. Okay, if the listeners out there don't
understand what that means, you get a master's in public
health is a very difficult to degree to get.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Okay, Actually, doctor Angie, I don't. I mean I have
a master's and my yours doctor, but I don't know
what is a master's in public health.
Speaker 5 (05:21):
Oftentimes you get that degree if you do want to
be in the research field in academics, and it's a
it's a very I'm just telling you, it's a very
difficult degree to get, to be admitted to and to acquire.
So this woman has some very some very big future
plans for herself. She's not a secretary, not that there's
(05:44):
anything wrong with being a secretary, but she has a
very big job at the Mayo Clinic, which she is
planning to extend. She's planning to make her job bigger
at the Mayo Clinic. So, no, this is not a person.
You don't play around in academics. You don't not show
up for work. There are a lot of people depending
on her. People depend on her to get their grants
(06:06):
sent there at the proper time and things like that.
So I'm sure she had a schedule that she kept.
I'm sure that she was. You know, she drops her
kids off, she goes to work. She's a working mom.
She's a working mom with a very big job, and
people and a lot of people depend on her in
that job that she's doing.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
All Donia, you just says something really really important, and
I'm going to follow it with Julie Gase, John Lawrence
and joining me from CBS there in Minnesota, WCC. I'm
getting right to you, and also with a special guest,
Meghan Kingsbury. This is Madeline's sister. Hold On just a second.
I want to follow up with something doctor Angie just
said regarding her schedule. Hold On, let me make a
note of exactly what I wanted to say. But doctor Angie,
(06:48):
I agree with you about being a secretary. You know,
my mom started off as a secretary and at a
pulp and paper company. She went on to run the
payroll and then turn into the CFO of a fortune
five hundred company one of their plans. So you know,
I wouldn't snibble at being a secretary. That said, I
(07:10):
agree with everything else that you just said. Julie Gates,
Major Law enforcement, crime scene investigator, forensic science program coordinator
and instructor at the Southern Crescent Technical College, and joining
her today is her entire class of I guess criminal
procedure students. Julie, thank you for being with us. Did
you hear what doctor Angela Arnold said? Everything she said
(07:34):
was correct, but I'm especially hinged on what she said
regarding Madeline Kingsbury's schedule. So this is a woman that
runs research or part of it at the Mayo Clinic.
She's raising two children, she's in the middle of working
on her master's degree. Julie, I don't know if this
(07:57):
is the right way or the wrong way to live,
if there is such a thing. But I actually have
to divide my day starting at five am, into fifty
minute increments until I pick up my twins from school.
Then everything's off. But a lot of that sounds crazy
to a lot of people, But to a high achiever
(08:21):
like this woman, Madeline Kingsbury, I bet she had segmented
times of the day. This is when I get up.
This is when I make the breakfast for the children.
This is when I wake them up. This is when
I feed the cat and the dog and the guinea pigs.
This is when I give them their breakfast. This is
what time we leave or drop off. This is what
time I get home, this is what time I go
(08:42):
to work, and then on and on until she picks
them up from school. Significance Julie Gates, we know where
to find her because she must be a very highly
regimented person to do everything she's doing.
Speaker 6 (08:57):
It seems like she's very detailed and schedule oriented. So
I do agree that, yeah, she's probably on a schedule
that you know, she takes her kids to school this time,
and you know everyone's depending on her. So yeah, she
does have a schedule in a regime that she would
follow daily.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Okay, Julie Gates, you are an incredible forensic investigators. Investigator,
I don't need an echo chamber. I just said that.
I want you to tell me how that translates into
finding a missing woman. We know her schedule. She's highly regimented.
It's not like she's just wandering around walking circles at
the mall all day.
Speaker 6 (09:35):
Nobody goes to victimology. I have to look at her victimology.
You know what, who she's with, what she's doing during
the day, you know that schedule does help.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
That man, you're not kidding. It kind of a it's
not a kneel and a haystack. You kind of know
where to start. Time stories with Nancy Grace. Who is
(10:10):
this woman? And how at one moment was she laughing
and talking and joking, sending funny pictures back and forth
to her sister And the next thing the sister says, Mom,
have you heard from Mattie? And joining me right now?
Is that sister Megan Kingsbury. And you can find her
on Facebook finding Madeline Kingsbury and go fundme, Go fund
(10:35):
me the search for Mattie and there they spell it
M A D D I not Madeline Megan Kingsbury. First
of all, I want to tell you how much my
heart's going out to you. I have one sister and
she lives far away, and when I don't hear from her, say,
in a week, I get worried and I cannot. She's
(10:56):
the closest thing to me. And I'm sorry what you're
going to Megan, We all are thank you.
Speaker 7 (11:05):
Yeah, she's my best friend.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Goys.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
I hardly know where to start, but you know what,
Let's hear Megan in her own words, describing her sister, Listen.
Speaker 8 (11:17):
Madeline is a hard working and dedicated mother as well
as a grad student at the U of M and
works for the Male Clinic. Family is everything to her.
She's grown into an impressive and beautiful young woman. Madeline
is many things.
Speaker 9 (11:33):
She's a mother, sister, and daughter, best friend, granddaughter, and
a niece. It's a long list. She's a young mother
of to five year old Eleanna two year old Noah.
Ellie is spunky and goofy. She loves to be crafty
and creative. She's inherited her mother's kindness and curiosity about
(11:54):
the world. Little Noah has turned into a chatterbox. I
can't tell what he sets up the time. He loves
to dance, he loves rock.
Speaker 8 (12:02):
And roll, and he was blessed with the red headed
gene for my grandfather.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Megan. First of all, tell me about your sister's children.
Her two babies. I believe they are. I guess they're
in preschool, right, yeah.
Speaker 7 (12:21):
Ellie attended a Montessori preschool in Winona, and then Noah
went to in home daycare and Winona as well.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Tell me about her relationship with her children.
Speaker 7 (12:34):
They were the light of her life. Constantly with them, constantly,
you know, trying to discover new things to teach them.
She really encouraged them to be their own little people.
She was very much a yes mom, you know, wanted
(12:55):
them to experience everything.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
You know, just thinking about them, one is to and
one is five. How are they reacting to mommy not
being there every single day?
Speaker 7 (13:07):
You know? Fortunately they're very young, so especially Noah, you know,
he's only two. As far as them, you know, asking
about her once in a while. But they're they're doing
really well, I'm right now. So as as far as
(13:32):
we can tell, they haven't you know, really noticed any
any big difference.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
They must be surrounded by a lot of love right now, yes,
and not even realize that anything is out of the norm.
Guys listened to more.
Speaker 10 (13:45):
Since her first child was born, which is five years ago. Now,
you know, I talked to her multiple times on a
daily basis FaceTime, phone, text, and the rest of my family.
She's just in constant communication with us about every minute detail.
(14:07):
So it's very unlike her. The last communication that I
had with her was the morning of Friday, March thirty.
Speaker 7 (14:16):
First.
Speaker 10 (14:17):
She had sent me a text at about eight fifteen
in the morning regular text for her. We were chuckling
about a funny photo exchanged between us, and that was
the last communication with me or with any of my
family or her other friends.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
You're hearing Madeline's sister Mega speaking to our friends at
Thoughts and Friends. Megan, So you guys were exchanging texts
early that morning, as early as eight fifteen.
Speaker 7 (14:48):
Yeah, you know, we both start early in the morning.
I personally I start work at seven am, so and
she's up with the kids. So yeah, pretty much every morning,
it's pretty pretty early contact with us.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Let me understand her schedule, Megan. With me is Megan Kingsbury.
This is Madeline's sister, very very close relationship. You just
heard her say. They texted or talked every day, Megan
in the morning, so she would get up. Would she
always drop the children one at the home daycare and
(15:25):
one at the Montessori?
Speaker 7 (15:27):
Ellie went to the monassory gosh, I think maybe two
or three days a week. The other days she went
to the same in home daycare as.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Noah, and Madeline would be the one to drop them off.
Speaker 7 (15:38):
Yeah. Sometimes I think their father joined as well. I
wasn't quite clear on how often, but she definitely would
always be.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
There, so it's always her. Now, who would pick them up?
Speaker 7 (15:51):
I think typically it would be her or both parents.
I think it kind of depended on her schedule.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
But almost always her, and maybe the dad would also come. Yes, okay,
the day that she went missing, who picked them up?
Speaker 11 (16:06):
Their father?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Okay, so that was covered. I was just imagining a
nightmare of the children, like standing outside for pickup and
nobody being there. Of course, Noah's too young to do that. Guys,
we're trying to figure out what happened. Now. You exchanged
a text with her early that morning at megan eight fifteen.
Did you hear from her after that?
Speaker 7 (16:29):
I did not?
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Was that normal?
Speaker 6 (16:31):
No?
Speaker 7 (16:31):
I mean, even if she can't talk or she's busy,
she'll send a message saying, so hey, I'm busy, I'll
talk to you later.
Speaker 12 (16:39):
But no, I didn't.
Speaker 7 (16:40):
I didn't get anything else.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
And that was March thirty one, correct, Yes, okay, March
thirty one. She goes missing. Last scene that morning, eight fifteen,
last heard from that morning at eight fifteen. Joining me
right now is investigative reporter out of Minnesota CBS WCCOTV,
John Lordson. John, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 13 (17:00):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Oh yes, tell me about the area. Is this rural suburban.
Speaker 13 (17:05):
Well, Wenona is home to Wenona State. It's a decent
sized town as far as Minnesota goes. This is in
the southeastern portion of the state.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Now, wait a minute, where is that as it relates
to the Tri cities?
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Are that?
Speaker 13 (17:16):
Well, Minneapolis St.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Paul.
Speaker 13 (17:17):
This is a couple hours about two and a half
hours southeast of Minneapolis St. Paul. Okay, right across the
border from Wisconsin is where Wenona's were located. So you
had a lot of searchers and volunteers coming from western
Wisconsin as well to help look for Matteline.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
As part of Wanona in Wisconsin.
Speaker 13 (17:35):
It is not, No, it's right across the border. Literally
right across the border.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Got it. Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 13 (17:40):
Yeah. The terrain you're asking about is really mixed, and
it's a beautiful part of the state. Really, there's bluff
country down there.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I don't like that. I don't like anything you just said.
You know what, when I hear the words John Lords
in beautiful terrain, you know that translates to me hard
to find, densely wooded forests, mountainous on dirt roads, very
low traverse areas. Is that what you're saying about beautiful
(18:07):
because that's really hard to find somebody.
Speaker 13 (18:08):
And some person is Yeah, it's kind of an eclectic
blend of terrain because on Friday when we were there,
and on Saturday as well, there's a lot of farm
fields that they were walking through as well. And you
know there are teams of twelve a dozen or so
volunteers that were showing up from all over the area,
very coordinated on Friday and then again on Saturday walking
(18:30):
through farm fields. But yes, the chief from Monona Police
did talk about that. He said that the terrain is
a mix and definitely as you mentioned Nancy the Bluff area,
he talked about that being a challenge. The hills, Yeah,
the steep terrain in some cases, and he did highlight
that is a challenge.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
John Morrison, w CCA joining us, Thank you again for
making time for us. What's the population isn't it under
fifty thousand?
Speaker 7 (18:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 13 (18:56):
I believe it is. And where a lot of this
search has been caught that there's a couple of little
towns involved. Goodview, Minnesota is right next to Wndona that
was a headquarters last week as well lay last week
for a lot of volunteers to show up. There's a
little town called Rushford, which isn't too far away. I
believe it's about twenty miles west where they were also searching.
I had a coordinated search there as well, and I
(19:18):
want to say last week and it was nearly three
thousand people that showed up to help. That was Easter weekend.
I've covered a few of these sadly over the years,
but this is one of the larger coordinated efforts in
talking with people that didn't know Madeline but still coming
out because they're a parent, or they knew somebody who
(19:39):
knew her, or they were a friend of hers, whatever
it might be. You have people from all over, as
I mentioned, western Wisconsin, southeastern Minnesota. It felt like there
were bustload upon bustload that Friday morning and then again
in the afternoon, and then again on Saturdays. So it
was impressive to see that.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Joining US Public Relationship Directory, Northstar International Search and Recovery, Tracy,
thank you for being with us. I know that that
strikes fear in your heart when you hear about this
terrain and a low population. Now low population in one
way means that it reduces the number of potential suspects,
(20:22):
if any, involved in Madeline's disappearance. But that terrain, if
she went for a hike, if she went for a walk,
that's going to be very difficult to find her. What
would you be doing right now, Tracy Campbell, Well, I saw.
Speaker 11 (20:38):
The fields that they were searching, and a ligne search
depending on the terrain you know we have. I don't
know what their resources are.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
First of all, tell everybody what is a line search
that you just said?
Speaker 11 (20:50):
How they're walking straight in a line? So typically, first
of all, they had three thousand people respond volunteers. That
can be a that's wonderful, but it also can be
very stressful because a search and recovery team they've got experience,
they've been through classes, they know what to look for clues.
(21:13):
You don't always know what a civilian will. So typically
you would take a team leader, somebody that's from the
search team, and maybe pair them up with twelve or
so civilian searchers and that would be your line. That way,
if they had any questions, if they saw something but
(21:34):
they weren't sure whether it was relevant, they could ask
somebody on a search and rescue team exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
And you know Megan Kingsbury joining us is Megan Kingsbury
Madeline sister. When what goes through your mind when you're
hearing us talking about searching this terran.
Speaker 7 (21:51):
You know, I've been out searching myself in some more
kind of remote areas, wildlife preserves, things like that. I
you know, I've been down to visit. I've seen the
difficulty in the terrain and just I kind of look
around and I'm like, well, she could be anywhere, and
it's it's hard to know where to start, and a
(22:13):
lot of people just aren't able to search that terrain effectively.
So it definitely worries me every day.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Would you go to bed at night, what are your
thoughts about where is your sister?
Speaker 7 (22:27):
Just last night i was outside and I looked up
at the sky and I'm just wondering if she out
there somewhere under the same sky, Like where where could
she be? It's a million things run through my mind
every night, and you know, you want to hold on
to a chance of hope that you know she's found, Okay,
(22:49):
It's difficult. The longer that that this goes on.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
To John Lordson joining US CBS Minnesota, w c CEO.
Was there any history of just quote taking break or
needing time to herself, anything like that, because I haven't
found it.
Speaker 13 (23:05):
No, not that we're aware of. I'm sure Meghan and
the family would be able to speak to that.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Megan, is there any such history?
Speaker 11 (23:11):
There's not.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah. I mean Kathleen Murphy joining me right now, courtroom,
veteran out of North Carolina family lawyer. She's at NC
Domestic Law dot com. Kathleen Murphy. It would be a
cold day in Hgublel that I took time for myself
and left my children. That's not happening.
Speaker 12 (23:29):
That's not happening, Nancy.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
No, that's not happening. This mom didn't go away for
the weekend, didn't need me time. There was no like
spa time and those mudbaths and massages and hot stones
on your back and all that that. No, she worked
and she took care for children. That was her life
and so that makes should make it easiest for us
(23:52):
to find her.
Speaker 12 (23:53):
But young babies, you're going to be in those hotspots.
You're going to be at the daycare, You're going to
be at the grocery store, you're going to be at
the house, They're going to nap. You're going to be
in the same places over and over again. As a
mother of four, you're a mother of twins. You know
the routine. Her family knows the routine. It's not rocket science.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
At this point, Guys, you're hearing the voice of Kathleen Murphy,
who has worked with us on missing persons cases. But guys,
I want you to hear more of what we know
about Madeline. Listen.
Speaker 10 (24:27):
There was some concern the evening of Friday, March thirty. First,
my mom actually sent me a message asking if I
had heard from my sister that day, because my mom
had sent some messages that had no response. And when
(24:48):
she said that, I was kind of like, oh, yes,
I guess you're right. She was supposed to come visit
my house the next morning with her daughter, and typically,
you know, we would have discussed those since it was
coming up. So it was that evening and we started
kind of connecting with her friends and seeing if anyone
had heard from her.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Megan Kingsbury is Madeline's sister, joining us shedding light into
the search for her sister. Megan, how far away from
Madeline do you live?
Speaker 7 (25:16):
I live in the Minneapolis area, so it's about two hours.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
From her home in Lenona. So to plan a trip,
this isn't like she's just going around the corner. This
was something she'd have to get the children ready in
the car, snacks, all that, and then drive two hours
to see you and your family. Correct, right, So that
was a plan. Interesting and no history at all of
(25:39):
just leaving to go for a girl's weekend or time alone.
Nothing like that, right, right.
Speaker 7 (25:45):
I mean, if she needed a break, she'd come to
my house, but she'd still bring the kids and you know,
we'd kind of tag team and watch them. But no,
she never would would leave them.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
So that evening, your mother notices she hasn't heard from
your sister, And back to Kathleen Murphy joining US high
profile lawyer out of North Carolina. Kathleen, that's routine evidence.
And I don't mean standard, typical pumdrum routine. I mean
evidence of someone's routine. And I'm stressing that again for
(26:16):
the third time because it's very important. By that evening,
when sister and mother have not heard from her, they
know something's up. Much less she didn't go to work
that day and she didn't pick the.
Speaker 12 (26:27):
Children up and creating those timelines are going to be
so important to investigators, Nancy, the timeline from that family
is going to be key in placing the location of
Mattie and anybody else that could be associated.
Speaker 11 (26:43):
With her disappearance.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 12 (26:45):
So, for example, if Mattie is going into work and
that's her routine immediately after dropping the children off, why
did she go home? Why did she go home? And
why was it ten o'clock when her husband or the
father of her children took that vehicle. Those are questions
that has to be answered.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
You're absolutely correct, and as a matter of fact, take
a listen to our friend Jacqueline Lee.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
According to police, Mattie was last seen at home last
Friday at approximately eight fifteen in the morning after dropping
her two children off with their father at daycare.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
The father told police he left.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Mattie's house at about ten am in her dark blue
Chrysler minivan. When he returned later that day, he says
she was not home. A minivan resembling hers was seen
that same morning driving along a nearby county road between
ten thirty am and one thirty pm. Investigators have searched
the minivan and Mattie's home. Inside the house, they found
(27:38):
her phone and her wallet.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
I just was trying not to panic.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Mattie's sister Megan last texted her that morning and everything
seemed fine.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace take a listen to our
friend Jacqueline Lee.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
According to police, Mattie was last seen at home last
Friday at approximately eight fifteen in the morning, after dropping
her two children off with their father at daycare. The
father told police he left Mattie's house at about ten
am in her dark blue Chrysler minivan. When he returned
later that day, he says she was not home. A
(28:28):
minivan resembling hers was seen that same morning driving along
a nearby county road between ten thirty am and one
thirty pm. Investigators have searched the minivan and Mattie's home.
Inside the house, they found her phone and her wallet.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
I just was trying not to panic.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Mattie's sister, Megan last texted her that morning and everything
seemed fine.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Okay, let's go straight back out to our investigative reporter
John Lords and joining us WCCOTV there in Minnesota. Let
me understand what I just heard from our friends at
Gma Jacqueline Lee. Now that morning a fifteen, that's when
she's texting with her sister Megan. She and the bio
dad drop the children at daycare. He tells cops he
(29:13):
left Maddie's house about ten a m. For some reason
in her minivan. Okay, let me understand that was where
the decision was made that she'd not go to work,
because that's when she would go to work. I understand
between eight, you know, after she drops the children, But no,
did he bring her back to the house. Is that
what he's saying.
Speaker 13 (29:31):
That's what we understand through law enforcement. That's what he
told them.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Then he takes the Chrysler and then when he comes
back with it, I don't know what to fill it with, gas.
I'm not sure he gets back at ten am and
she's not there. Is that correct?
Speaker 13 (29:43):
He claims he laughed and came back and believe in
the afternoon and she was not there. Now, law enforcement
is telling us there's no evidence she was picked up
by anybody else, or that she might have just left
the home and walked somewhere. That's according to the Windowana
pleased you well?
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Is that the terrain Megan Kingsbury would she just leave
and walk somewhere?
Speaker 7 (30:03):
No, I mean where her house is kind of situated.
She's not really within walking distance of you know, like
a target or anything.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Does she walk, jog or bike anything like that?
Speaker 7 (30:13):
You know, she used to jog. I think it's been
a while, but she did used to jog.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
In the past, but not recently. No, I don't believe so,
So I'm just trying to figure out. We were covering
the case of Eliza Fletcher, a Memphis mom who was
at like four o'clock in the morning jogging. That was
her routine, you know, And a lot of terrains, like
you go out on the street, it's like I seventy five,
you can't walk or jog or bike there. Or it
could be a country road like Molly Tibbets where she
(30:40):
would run every day. So is a terrain near her?
Did she have a home apartment? Condo?
Speaker 13 (30:46):
What?
Speaker 7 (30:47):
They lived in? A town home? It was kind of
one of those divided in half one so they had
a connected neighbor.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Okay, and the biodas living in the home. Correct, Yeah, okay,
so he leaves with the car. Yeah, you're right, You're right, lordson,
I had that ten thirty am in my head that
he came back, but her vehicle was side between ten
thirty and one thirty PM. That's where I'm getting ten
thirty Is that correct?
Speaker 13 (31:14):
That is correct?
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yes, who sided her vehicle?
Speaker 13 (31:16):
That was spotted around town? I believe there's more than
one witness to that. And now what law enforcement was
trying to get people to do, and we've been down there,
is have people check that it's called the Highway of
forty three corridor. That's where that van has been spotted
or was spotted around that time.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Are a dark MENI van CHRYSTL or what is it?
A Chrysler PACIFICA town and country right, town and country?
Multiple signings of her van around town, But did anybody
say who was driving it?
Speaker 13 (31:43):
Not that we have been told yet. And what they're
asking people to do is we've talked about the terrain
quite a bit and just that area it can get
rural pretty quick. So they're asking people to look at
their doorbell camera, see if they can see who is driving,
see if the van went by their home, trail cameras.
There's a lot of you know, wooded areas. As we
(32:04):
talked about out there, people have trail cameras set up?
Did your trail camera catch this van on a roadway
when you're kind of having it going down a path
looking for wildlife? Was there a road behind there where
you saw the van going through? What time was it?
Can you see who was driving?
Speaker 1 (32:20):
What about cameras in town? You said Highway forty three
corridor and when you said around town, what town Winona?
Speaker 13 (32:29):
Yeah? Correct?
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Aren't there red light cams and business cams.
Speaker 13 (32:34):
Business cameras, surveillance camera, security cameras, whatever you got law
enforcement that wants to know about it?
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Well, aren't they getting it? Aren't they confiscating it from
businesses and red lights? Before? Does nobody remember Chandra Levy? Yeah,
and her apartment complex before she went out and was
attacked and murdered. Every seventy two hours they roll over
the table, it starts over. You got to get it
immediately before it starts rolling over.
Speaker 13 (33:00):
And they might have some already they just have not disclosed.
I think Megan talked about that earlier. Is you know
the investigation they're being they're keeping it very close to
their best, but yeah, they're definitely asking for anybody else
that had maybe something out there that wasn't so obvious.
The businesses are one thing, and the homes near there
is another. But in some of these rural areas around
(33:21):
that top line and around that vicinity, if they had
a trail camera, if they had a doorbell camera, if
they had a security camera, did you see this van
go buying? Can you tell who was driving? And they
want that.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
John Laws, and you're telling me people in the town
of Winona, I think they saw not just a blue
town and country her blue town and country. Is that
what they think that?
Speaker 13 (33:50):
That's the law enforcement that told us they believe that van.
More than one person saw that van driving in that timeframe.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
We talked about what was distinct about her vangan, what
if anything is to stink John, anybody jump in and
tell me? Well?
Speaker 13 (34:03):
And the fact that it was a Town and Country
Chrysler van, And honestly, Nancy, I don't know how popular
those are in Wenona, Minnesota. But that's in that time
frame that van was spotted. Uh, And that's an excellent question.
Is that van? Do we know if that was hers?
For sure? I'm guessing what law enforcement says it is.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Megan Casebury, what about it? What about her van?
Speaker 6 (34:26):
You know?
Speaker 10 (34:27):
They have.
Speaker 7 (34:28):
The law enforcement has some footage from a gas station
in Rushford, Minnesota. I believe it was a quick trip
of the van coming and going, so I know for
sure they've they've seen it in Rushford. Other than that,
I haven't heard if there's been any other footage. I
know they're looking at semi trucks. Those have cameras kind
(34:51):
of all around. They're they're really trying any avenue to
see if they can get footage.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Where's Rushford as it relates to Anona close? Yeah, twenty
mins that would make And what time of the day
was her van spotted in Rushford?
Speaker 7 (35:07):
I want to stay probably between like ten thirty and
eleven is.
Speaker 13 (35:12):
Yeah, I believe you're right on that. I think it
was in the morning, still before the new Homer that
that was spotted.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
But what time does Biodet say he brought the car back?
Speaker 7 (35:22):
I believe that he said he returned home around one pm,
so that could have been him driving around. That doesn't
really help us, does it.
Speaker 13 (35:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Okay, where is the vehicle right now?
Speaker 13 (35:36):
John Lawrenson, law enforcement has searched that vehicle. I do
not know if they gave that back to the family.
Speaker 7 (35:42):
Do you know, Megan, I believe law enforcement still has
the vehicle, still.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Has the vehicle? Okay. To Julie Yate joining us a
crime scene investigator and instructor, Julie, what do you make
of this regarding them still having the vehicle?
Speaker 6 (36:02):
I would they still had the vehicle in their possession
because that is one of the key pieces of evidence.
I would say right now.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
To Tracy Campbell joining us with North st Our International
Search and Recovery, I believe that the vehicle, especially why
the fact that law enforcement is still holding onto it
must have some sort of forensic evidence in it. I agree, Okay,
Kathleen Murphy, what do we do now?
Speaker 12 (36:25):
I think we take an inventory of what's in there.
I also, Nancy, have a question about whether or not
a search warrant has been effectuated for the home that
they were living in. And another question that we have
is whether or not Madeline was looking for another place
to live. I saw on her Facebook page that she
(36:47):
had posted that she was looking for a new place
to live in aple.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Or May to MEGANE. Kingsbury, your sister posted that is
that correct that she was looking for a new place
to live?
Speaker 7 (36:56):
Yes, that's correct. Why her and the father of the
children were not continuing their relationships.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
They were splitting.
Speaker 7 (37:06):
Yes, so she was looking for a new place close
to where she already lived, close to the daycare, close
to the preschool. I know she was looking over in Goodview,
which is the next town over.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
So yeah, she was looking for a new place, Nancy.
Speaker 14 (37:22):
If I could jump in for just a moment, this
is John Lemley in the Crime Online news room. We're
now learning that a special prosecutor has been hired by
Wenona County law enforcement to assist in the search for
Madeline Kingsbury. Madeleine's sister has revealed that Philip Prokopovich is
currently collaborating with law enforcement about Madeleine's disappearance and he'll
(37:43):
help if charges are brought against anyone. Prokopovich served as
Dakota County's previous Chief Deputy County Attorney.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Guys, the family of Malan Kingsbury has now issued a
fifty thousand dollars reward thousand dollar reward tip line five
zero seven four five seven six two eight eight repeat
five zero seven four five seven six two eight eight
(38:12):
Please help us find Madeline. Goodbye, friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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