March 7, 2017 • 33 mins
OJ Simpson could be months away from walking out of the Nevada prison where he’s served nine years of a 33-year sentence for a Las Vegas armed robbery. The former NFL star is expected to be freed on parole in October. Jim Moret covered the trial where Simpson was acquitted on murder charges in the killings of his ex-wife and a Brentwood waiter and later for when Simpson was convicted in a robbery trial. Nancy Grace and Moret discuss Simpson’s life behind bars and his prospects when he becomes a free man in this episode.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
The O. J. Simpson murder case was the first true
reality show for the country. He killed her because he
couldn't have This is carn Stories with Nancy Grace. That
trail of blood from Bundy, through his own freud Bronco
and into his house in Rockingham, his devastating proof of
(00:29):
his guilt. Poorly trained personnel from l A. P d
Has contaminated, compromise and correctly any of it is in
this case. After more than seven months of relentless publicity,
the double murder trial of O. J. Simpson will unfold
before the only people who really count in deciding his faith.
The jury. We the jury in the inbuff entitle action
find a defendient or prenthology. Simpson not guilty of the
(00:49):
crime of murder and violation of Peano fult Section A
ability upon the Coral Brown Simpson a human being as
charged and count one of the information to people. A
beautiful woman and a young man dead in the driveway,
the woman nearly decapitated, her head still attached to her
(01:12):
neck by the thin skin behind the neckbone. Yes, I'm
talking about Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown. Because even now
it's not over. O J. Simpson is set to walk
free on parole. Yes. O J. Simpson is set to
(01:35):
be released as early as October. What in the hey,
this is crime Stories. I Nancy Grayson. I want to
thank you for being with us. And with me of
course is Alan Duke, but special guests joining me is
Jim Murray. Jim, please help me. You and I covered
the O. J. Simpson case like nobody's business, and I
(01:58):
was miserable when the jury did not convict him of
double murder. Then years later I remember saying, Jim, and
I think I said it to you. Don't worry. He'll
turn back up like a bad penny. Sure enough he did.
What is this business about him getting out in October? Well,
you know, Nancy, he's in He's in jail right now
(02:19):
for a totally unrelated incident, and that's the kidnapping. Uh.
It's when he went to Las Vegas, uh for a
friend's wedding, found out that some of his memorabilia, which
he claimed was his and was stolen, was at a
hotel and he went there to get it. His memorability
that was sold. That memorabilia, Yeah, that memorabilia. You know.
(02:41):
Effectively he had a thirty three million dollar judgment against
him for the Boldman family int a wrongful death suit,
and he did everything he could to avoid paying anything.
And and frankly that memorabilia should have gone dissatisfied that judgment,
but he wanted it for himself, and he went with
some friends too, have had guns. He was convicted, and
(03:03):
and many people believe that the sentence was much greater
than it otherwise would have been in Vegas, and it
was payback for the non the not guilty verdict in
the murder case. Wait a minute, let me understand something.
So Jim Murray, three guys come storming into your place,
two of them armed, and you don't think he should
(03:25):
do his full sentence. I think his sentence was far well,
his sentence was far greater than anybody else involved in
that case. Everybody else is out of prison. He's not.
He got I think thirty years in prison. Yet, Look,
I think it was payback. There's no question in my mind.
I'm not saying that I want him to walk around free,
but I believe it was payback. You and I differ
(03:47):
on this because he was the mastermind. The other the
others were his minions. He was the mastermind. Orenthal. James
Simpson may be released from prison as early as this
October after just nine years behind bars on a thirty
three year sentence. Now, as you will recall, or Enthal,
(04:10):
James Simpson, the star NFL player, walked free on a
double murder of his wife, Nicole Brown and friend, a waiter,
Ron Goldman. He walked free on that and lived the
high life until he just couldn't stop himself. And this
has been adjudicated in court. He gets some of his
flunkeys and they go into a hotel and they arm
(04:34):
rob a guy at gunpoint to take back memorabilia the
guy was going to sell, claiming it was his. And
now he's whining that he should get out, and he
is getting out on good behavior. He was found guilty
in two thousand eight of twelve counts of kidnapping, robbery,
and assault with a deadly weapon. Was there any doubt
(04:56):
that he was the mastermind, Jim Murray, No, But I
would also call it the game that couldn't shoot the trade.
It wasn't a really well planned executed operation. It was
a spur of the moment thing. And and but Nancy,
let's just go back to the to the murder king.
Hold hold your horses. It was a spur of the moment, amateur.
(05:18):
You know what, when you have the wrong end of
the gun in your face, it doesn't matter if it's
a sharpshooter or an amateur on the other end. You know,
it makes a big man little and a little man big.
And that's what happened that day. I don't care who's
got the gun at my nostril. I want him to
go to jail, and I want to live to see
the next day. And he did go to jail, and
(05:39):
he is in jail. I'm simply telling you he's been
in jail. Let me tell you something, Jim, Alright, this
ain't the Apple Dumpling gang. Okay, so just stop all
that business. Now, what were you going to say. I'm
just telling you that he did more time than anybody
else involved. I get it, he's the mastermind. I give
you that. But I'm still on you that his sentence
(06:01):
was far greater than anyone else's. Am I supposed to
feel bad about that? No, it's simply it's simply a fact.
Same team. He just keeps saying he got more time. Well, fine,
he's lived like a kid behind and I and I
(06:22):
think I think it was payback because everyone, including the judge,
including the prosecutor in Vegas, were angry that O. J.
Simpson walked, and I understand the anger. However, I also
understand that that murder case was flawed for a number
of reasons. I think that they were mistakes. Mand I
(06:43):
think that one of the detectives, Mark Furman, just about
did that case in. I think that the makeup of
the jury, which both sides knew would be, would be
partial to O. J. Simpson's side that did the case in.
I think there were a lot of problems with the case.
We'll see. To me, that case supersedes, it transcends male, female, white, black, Hispanic,
(07:08):
inter city outside suburbs. I mean, to me, it was
so clear as the nose on your face. And now
all the evidence that has come out since the trial.
I mean from the Bruno' molly shoes too that he
owned that were tracked into Cole Brown and Ron Goldman's blood,
to him flunking the polygraph to the tune of a
(07:31):
minus forty something, I mean, it just keeps on coming.
Hold on, I want to quickly say thank you, not
only to Jim Ray for being with us, but too.
Simply Safe our sponsor making our podcast possible today. Simply
Safe makes home security affordable at a month. If you
(07:53):
log onto simply safe dot com slash Nancy, you get
another tem per cent off. So many cases I've covered,
and my first question is did they have a home
alarm system? Why didn't he go off? Did the perpetrator
know the code? What happened? What went wrong? And they
didn't have one? Now that is anecdotal, but I can
tell you this. I have an alarm system, My mom
(08:15):
has an alarm system, my brother has an alarm system.
I even keep the thing on when I'm here with
the twins with me because I just can't protect them enough.
So Simply Safe, thank you. And I guess that's what
you need to keep somebody like O. J. Simpson from
breaking into your house with his Apple Dumpling gang like
(08:36):
Jim Murray wants me to think they are. This guy
took eight hundred items at gunpoint from a Vegas hotel
room November two thousand seven, and he's done about nine
years behind bars. Don't worry about Simpson. When he gets out,
he gets around twenty five thousand dollars a month. That's
(08:57):
what some teachers make in a year. Three hundred thousand
dollars a year, two point seven million dollars throughout his
prison stay. During his prison stay from this NFL pension,
I mean, and what about life behind bars? What has
it been like for Simpson Jim Murray. First of all,
(09:21):
I need simply safe. If I'm going to do this
podcast because I need protection from you, I'm sorry, I'm
gonna lay off. It's just that, you know. Let me
just I just keep remember those crime scene photos. I
just keep it, and that photo of Nicole Brown's battered
(09:42):
face all beating up where everybody would turn the other
I turn away because he's an NFL star alone, keep
beating her, Nancy, I was. I was among a small
group of reporters who unfortunately, were invited to see the
autopsy photos. And they were life sized photos shown to
the jurors. And I'll tell you something, things I wish
I hadn't seen them. They were horrific. The way you
(10:04):
describe Nicole, you can't even in words portray the horror
that these pictures did. Um. Look, I feel the same
outrage you do. You know, sound out right when you
talk about well, because I've had twenty two years to
reflect on this, and and when I think about the
(10:25):
two years to get mad about it, sounds horrible. No, no, no, Well,
I I'm resigned to the fact that it happened, and
my my goal is to understand why it happened and
to see what do you do if and when another
case like this comes along, because you can't undo this case,
but you can learn from it. But but you are passionate,
(10:47):
and I respect that. He will need to win over
four of seven commissioners at his parole hearing, and that
will probably take place this summer. He will receive a
certain number of quote points in order to get out. Now,
let me ask you this, Jim, I never really understand
how anything happens in California, Okay, because it's um let
(11:11):
me just say, euphemistically, unlike any other criminal justice system
in the Union. Let me understand this. So could it
be like Manson and Manson's followers, they keep coming up
for parole and they never get it. Could that happen?
Could he not get it? Well? Yes, and his his
parole hearing will actually be just outside of Vegas because
(11:34):
he's in the Nevada jail of Nevada prison. But look,
he's he's had exact You're right. I'm sorry. I was
conceived just for a moment there. I was thinking about
the murder versus Vegas, and that's where the outrage occurred,
really in California. And and and you know, he has
shown good behavior. He supervises the men's jim in prison,
(11:58):
his sister goes to visit him, he does what he supervised. Way,
he supervises the men's gym. Yes, because this man has
not been working out. He has not been working out well.
His sister says, he's he's within a few pounds of
his weight when he got in when nine years ago,
and he's in pretty good since now. She says, I
have not seen the photo of them recently, but the
(12:20):
last time I saw him, he didn't look too great.
And then there was the girlfriend, remember her, She being
beaten up and would make all these excuses so I
fell down, this, that and the other thing. You know,
she never had any of those accents before she got
slung up with Simpson. Well, and don't forget Nicole Brown.
Simpson called the police more than eight times, and they
(12:41):
were called to their home and he was never arrested,
so you know, the outrage has to extend to that
as well. Now, what, if anything, if any role does
this last documentary o J made in America and the
mini series The People The o J. Simpson, you know
with Cuba Gooding. Yeah, in any way, do you think
(13:02):
that that is affecting this because you know, it just
won awards. I know, it's it's interesting, It's it's fascinating
how how the people who portray O J. Simpson and
and all of these supporting characters become almost folk heroes,
and and yet it was such a really horrific crime,
and and and it really captivated America in the worst
(13:23):
sort of way. I was frankly surprised that the FX
series did so well. I thought no one cared about
O J. Simpson, and apparently the mania is still very
much alive and kicking. The documentary I thought was great
because it really showed the background of who he was
and how how huge he was in sports, but how
he was divorced from the struggles of any African Americans
(13:47):
in the inner city, how he was not living that life,
not supportive of that, and really focused on one person,
O J. Simpson, and I think that came through I
hope it doesn't a fact the parole hearing, because frankly,
I don't think it should. Let me tell you a story.
Let me tell you a true story. You know. Um
(14:08):
I had was working as a county prosecutor in inner
City Atlanta, trying nothing but violent felonies when Simpson happened,
and through a fluke, no resume, no demo, real nothing,
I ended up being invited to co host with Johnny Cochrane.
Remember at first, yeah, And at first I actually said no.
(14:32):
I had no intention of leaving prosecution to go beyond TV.
But my elected district attorney, the longest serving in the
country at that time, decided to finally retire, and I
knew the newly elected DA would fire all the top litigators.
So I'm like, sure, here I come. And I moved
to New York with two boxes of clothes, curling iron,
(14:53):
and three hundred dollars. What could go wrong? So I
moved to New York and many times I would ask
it over and overthinking he'd give me a different answer,
But I'd say, Cochrane, did Simpson do it? Just Just
tell me. Every time he kind of like raised his
hands up and have a little smile. He go, jury
(15:15):
acquitted him. That's all he would say. He would never
say oh h G double well, no he didn't do it,
just said jury acquitted him. But you know, you know,
you you knew Johnny very well. There you have it.
I met Johnny Cochrane when I was twenty six. I
was a young reporter in Los Angeles, and he was
(15:36):
so gracious to me. Actually, every time I've ever seen
him since he was he was a very decent, honorable man.
I I wonder if he made a deal with the
devil when he took that case, because it just well,
I tell you, his wife is just the sweetest lady
(15:56):
and super smart. Johnny Cochrane's wife, and um, she's a
business person, a very very good business and you know,
his children super nice and um this the Simpson thing.
I'm telling you. Everybody is seemingly been cursed by Simpson.
(16:17):
So how has Simpson avoided paying this thirty three point
five million dollar civil order? I know through a variety
of means. For instance, he moved to Florida because in
Florida there is a law that blocks any forced sale
of a residence through a lawsuit so we can hold
(16:38):
on to his mansion in Florida. I don't think a
creditor can attach or get ahold of a garnish a pension.
And he's got this huge pension of grand a year
a month and nobody can get it. But then all
that memorabilia of his over all the years, you know, jerseys, Heisman, rings,
(17:04):
blah blah, all that that could be sold to satisfy
the thirty three million, but never has happened. I'll tell
you what what will make you even more angry when
he was in I don't want to stroke out while
the children are still just nine years old, okay, because
you know I'll tell you why. Wait, wait a minute,
(17:24):
let me tell you why I don't want to stroke
out right now over Simpson, because my children are only
nine and I don't want me to go get buried,
you know, back home and making Georgia and my husband
run out and you know, marry some tramp and then
she raises my children in wonderful woman who cares for
(17:47):
him just as much as you. Nancy, that's a yeah,
but what about my children? She can love him all
she wants to, but nobody's gonna Hey, you know you
are going to get in trouble because nobody's gonna love
more than mommy. Okay, so why can I stroke out
about O? J. Simpson? But okay, what were you saying
(18:11):
every single day that he was in custody during that trial?
There were footballs and pictures and various items of memorabilia
that he would sign to generate income while he was
in custody. I hear silence, which is never good from you.
(18:32):
Oh that is so painful. Okay, how much are we
talking about? How much do you think that he We're
talking about hundreds of thousands, if not more so every
day every day. Yes, like a like a like a
like a machine, just stacks and stacks of photos and
(18:54):
name it. And they were all sold like a machine. Yeah,
I know, I don't want you to stroke ount. Take
a deep breath and just know that hurts me so much.
All that money should go to the victim's family. Okay,
what was his life like? What was his life light
behind bars? Look, I don't think it's it's great by
(19:14):
our standards. I think he's made the best of it.
I think that his life before he went behind bars, frankly,
was was over life as he knew it, because he
was a pariah after the case, after the murder case,
I was. I was at the dance recital the day
of the murders because both of our daughters were in
the same dance class. And and I see him. I
(19:36):
saw him that year, and I saw him the year before.
And he was a hero before these murders. People loved him,
they worshiped him, and he lived for that. So when
he became a pariah, life as he knew it was over.
So regardless, yes, I agree he should he should not
have the memorability, you shouldn't have the money. But he
missed the one thing that he craved the most, and
(19:58):
that's the adulation, fame, the freedom to go anywhere, anytime
and be loved. That's over and it will always be over.
I think so. Uh And and frankly it does. It
pales in comparison to what the victims paid. They paid
with their lives. I get it. But he suffered, not
not enough, I agree, But he suffered. And I also
(20:21):
think that he has a good chance of getting out
when he's up for parole on this here to excuse me,
excuse me, excuse me to quote Lego Batman, I hate
everything you just said. Okay, I don't want to hear
how he how he's been through so much because I'm
just not working for me. Now, let's talk about his
(20:44):
life behind bars, Fitch, I've been dressed down by Lego,
So let's talk about his life behind prisoner one zero,
two seven, eight to zero. Yes, I have memorized it.
That was one zero to zero. Is treated like royalty
(21:05):
behind bars at love Lock in Nevada. He gets in
the same blue uniform, has a bunk bed, has a sink,
and a cell mate. He gets up at six thirty
like everybody else. He has cold cereal with a muffining fruit.
Then he heads to his work shift. He hangs out
(21:25):
at the prison gym, getting other people to do his work.
But that's where the similarity ends. Okay, so many perks
he has had behind bars. He has been able to
pay people to clean his room, he has been able
(21:45):
to pay for special meals. He has had extra visitation.
He watches sports in his TV on his TV in
his cell, he watches sport courts religiously. He gets visits
from a former manager. He has very few limits of
(22:11):
what he can view. I mean, it goes on and
on and on. I mean to basically pay to have
a butler behind bars, thoughts sounds like a nice retirement home.
Come on, and you guys are acting like he's been
through so much. I know, Jim, What if O J
calls you and says, meet me and Brentwood, we're gonna
play golf. And this is after he gets out of prison.
(22:33):
Would you go play golf with him? No? No, but
I would love to interview him. Of course, I really
would love to interview him. And if that interview just
happened to take place on a gospel if that interview
just happened to take place on a golf course, I
would watch. I would interview, no problem with that. I
like interviewing people in a setting that makes them feel
comfortable because they tend to open up. Where do you well?
(22:55):
Of course he's going to go back to Florida. Nancy, Nancy,
are you telling me you would not want an interview
O Jason? Honestly, Hey, with a golf club in her hand,
and at my eighty four year old judge, he would
tell the jury, it is your duty to make all
witnesses speak the truth, and and and perjury on no onah.
(23:15):
In other words, both of the things you just sick
can be true. But I want to interview him. No,
he is a murderer and he has walked free. And
not only has he killed two innocent people, he also
abused Lady Justice by laughing in her face after walking
free on a double murder, committing other crimes such as
(23:37):
beating his girlfriend horrifically, and then this armed robbery in Nevada.
He spit in her face. So no, I would not
interview him. Would I do it? Yes? Of course, knowing
everything he would say would be a big fat lie.
But he has not been suffering in prison. I can
tell you that he eats like a horse, he exercises,
(24:01):
he's got a flat screen TV. Okay, I don't have
a flat screen TV in my bedroom. No, the toys
don't have a flat screen TV in their bedroom. To me,
he's had the good life behind bars. So now he's
going to get out. Obviously he's going to go home
to Florida, right, I would think so, Yes, that's home
(24:23):
for him now. A source from behind Bars has Quota
Simpson as saying only two people alive know who committed
the Brentwood murders him O J. Simpson and Al Cowing's
a c He is the guy that drove Simpson and
his white Bronco when I guess Simpson was what holding
(24:44):
himself hostage, threatening if police came, he had shoot himself. Okay,
he held himself hostage and somehow it worked. It did work,
you right. You know what I've forgotten, Nancy, what I
have to say and what ends know this. You've got
so many millions of people love you, and I understand why,
(25:05):
because you're lovable. However, what I forgot was my need
for a kevlar vest when I'm being interviewed by you
for protection. Okay, I'm gonna tell a story about Jim
Mora And I know you hate this. I know you
hate this, but I'm gonna do it. I'm doing it.
I'm doing it. Okay. So when I grew up, we
(25:26):
would watch everything wholesome right, and one of the things
we could watch don't get mad at me, Jim, okay,
don't is Gidget. And you know where I'm going with this.
Did you know Alan that Jim Murray's dad is Moondoggy
on the Gidget movies? And when I found that out.
(25:48):
That's right, James, Darren, you could you could just say
anything and I would still be in total all of
you because when I was a young girl, I thought
your dad was the coolest guy ever moon hockey. And
that's something I've had to live with. Every girl I've
ever liked how to crush on my dad. So imagine that.
Why should today be any different? We got all of
(26:08):
his good looks, though, well, Nancy's always reminded me of Gidget.
Actually that's a compliment with a machete's, you know. You know,
I wonder how this makes. I wonder how this makes
the Goldman's and the browns Field. I'm guessing that you've
maintained a relationship with him. I've become friends with Kim
(26:29):
Goldman and I've known it for twenty two years or
something like that, and she it's difficult for them. It's
clearly this this is something the pain never goes away.
Every birthday, every everything that happens with with their families,
there there's a there's a place missing. And not only
(26:50):
not only are they're missing Ron and Nicole, but they're
missing all the things around them. Ron never got married,
never had children, so they are grandchildren that are missing
for the Goldman's you know, it's um, it's horrific, it's
it's unimaginable. And you know there's another thing I wanted
to tell you. I got some of the information from
a guy. His name is Jeffrey Felix, and he is
(27:11):
a retired c I Correctional Institute officer, and he watched
over Simpson. He finally, after many many years, wrote a
book called Guarding the Jews. How O J. Simpson became
My prison b FF. Okay, Now this is the story
that Jeffrey Felix gives. He um that said that the
(27:34):
whole knife thing where you know, authorities went looking for
the knife one time, he thought it was a joke.
And uh then he said that one time Simpson told him,
as I mentioned, the only that only two people alive
knew who committed the murders of Nicole Brown, a Ron Goldman,
(27:55):
him Simpson and Callings. And he's said that Simpson was
washing his hands and looked up in the mirror and
I and I'm talking about the guard said, Juice, you
just solve the Brent with murders. You're looking at the
murderer right in the mirror. And he goes on and says,
(28:16):
he just gave me a glare. Quote, he gave me
a kind of a dirty look, and then he kind
of smiled after he kind of shrugged it off, and
that was it. Creepy. See, if the jury had heard that,
maybe it would have made a difference. I don't know,
but this is what I do know. If you want
your voice to be heard, go online to the Vegas
(28:39):
Pardoning Parole, to Nevada Pardoner and Parole and let your
voice be heard. If you do not want Simpson to
walk free. Okay, Jim Murray, Sorry, Alan, I'm totally ignoring
you because they've got Murray here with me. Jim. Look,
I'm just glad to get a little bit of relief
from from the he himself. I do this every morning, Jim,
(29:02):
every more. You should have jumped in a little more.
I noticed you didn't give me any cover. I'm going
to take that as a compliment, but it's a compliment.
Give me your final thoughts, and and don't start telling
me about how he's been. Yeah, he's suffered too much.
Just stops not. I haven't told you that he suffered
too much. I don't believe he suffered too much car around.
(29:27):
I do not believe. What is your take away? Do
you think he's really going to walk? Do you think
he's going to walk? I think he will walk. Yes,
I do. Oh that hurt? Okay, go ahead, I think
he will. I have to look at this case alone,
(29:51):
because he was he was acquitted in California. So the judge,
the parole board in in Nevada should not hold a
case against him legally, I understand ethically, I understand morally,
but legally they should not hold that other case against him. Um.
So I think they have to look at how he's
(30:11):
behaved in prison, what his sentence was, what what has
transpired since? Is there any remorse? Um? And by the way,
I've never heard I've heard of no remorse. I shouldn't
have said anything, but so, uh, I do think. I
think there's a good chance. I think there's a good
chance that Hey, you know what, it sounds like a vacation.
(30:34):
I'm a joint sentance because this is telling me. You're
telling me today Nancy on TV. Yeah, UM, they'll throw
anything the next time you see. You know what, I'm
going to have a little faith. I'm gonna go I'm
gonna have a little faith. I'm going to go out
on a lamb and I'm gonna say no that they
(30:55):
will not let him go this time, much as they
have kept the Manson followers behind bars even though they
were eligible for parole on principle. So you know what,
I'm calling on the pardoner parole board to do the
right thing and keep this guy behind bars. That's that's
what I'm saying. Okay, you get to a position of
(31:15):
power like being on the parole board so you can
do the right thing, the right thing. And I don't
care what's written in a law book, a dusty law
book on a shelf. I'm talking about what is right
and what is wrong. Let's see what they do. Okay,
Jim Murray, the next time I see you on TV,
which is probably going to be today, I will be
reaching through the screen and grabbing you by your ear
(31:38):
and not twisting it for all the things you've said,
and watch out your next I want to thank first
of all, simply, I want all of your listeners to
know this. I believe in my heart you always strive
to do the right thing, and so I respect what
you're saying. Thank you, Son of Moon, Doggie, okay it,
(32:01):
I love you, man, Hey, Jim, When did we first
actually meet? Not on TV on the airways, but when
was it? When was luck? When did we actually when
did when we meet meet in person? Yeah? I don't know.
I remember. I remember the first time I saw you.
I heard angels singing the pot and I said, this
(32:25):
is nasty. Greg. You've always been so wonderful and gracious
and kind to me and and and I love my man.
I really find you. I'm both attracted to you and frightened.
W It's it's a fascinating dynamic, as it should be.
And please tell Jabra norvil I said, hello, I love her.
(32:46):
I want to thank three people. First of all, Too
Simply Safe, our sponsor for today that makes home security affordable.
Right or wrong. Whenever I read about, or hear about,
or cover or investigate a case that involves a home invasion,
I think, did they have a system? Did they have
(33:06):
a home alarm system? I really remember thinking about it
during the Teresa Seaver's case in Florida when I heard
when I heard she had been blunted, and did they
have an alarm system? And I found out they did?
And the killer knew the code that I can't help,
but that's my first reaction. I have an alarm system
and I keep it on, and I am proud that
(33:28):
Simply Safe is our sponsor making home security affordable for
our country's families. Thank you, Simply Safe, Allen the Duke Duke,
Thank you for being with us. In a special thank
you to my longtime friend Jim Murray. Love love you
to take care. Hey guys, thank you for being with
(33:49):
us on crime Stories. Goodbye friends,
The O. J. Simpson murder case was the first true
reality show for the country. He killed her because he
couldn't have This is carn Stories with Nancy Grace. That
trail of blood from Bundy, through his own freud Bronco
and into his house in Rockingham, his devastating proof of
(00:29):
his guilt. Poorly trained personnel from l A. P d
Has contaminated, compromise and correctly any of it is in
this case. After more than seven months of relentless publicity,
the double murder trial of O. J. Simpson will unfold
before the only people who really count in deciding his faith.
The jury. We the jury in the inbuff entitle action
find a defendient or prenthology. Simpson not guilty of the
(00:49):
crime of murder and violation of Peano fult Section A
ability upon the Coral Brown Simpson a human being as
charged and count one of the information to people. A
beautiful woman and a young man dead in the driveway,
the woman nearly decapitated, her head still attached to her
(01:12):
neck by the thin skin behind the neckbone. Yes, I'm
talking about Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown. Because even now
it's not over. O J. Simpson is set to walk
free on parole. Yes. O J. Simpson is set to
(01:35):
be released as early as October. What in the hey,
this is crime Stories. I Nancy Grayson. I want to
thank you for being with us. And with me of
course is Alan Duke, but special guests joining me is
Jim Murray. Jim, please help me. You and I covered
the O. J. Simpson case like nobody's business, and I
(01:58):
was miserable when the jury did not convict him of
double murder. Then years later I remember saying, Jim, and
I think I said it to you. Don't worry. He'll
turn back up like a bad penny. Sure enough he did.
What is this business about him getting out in October? Well,
you know, Nancy, he's in He's in jail right now
(02:19):
for a totally unrelated incident, and that's the kidnapping. Uh.
It's when he went to Las Vegas, uh for a
friend's wedding, found out that some of his memorabilia, which
he claimed was his and was stolen, was at a
hotel and he went there to get it. His memorability
that was sold. That memorabilia, Yeah, that memorabilia. You know.
(02:41):
Effectively he had a thirty three million dollar judgment against
him for the Boldman family int a wrongful death suit,
and he did everything he could to avoid paying anything.
And and frankly that memorabilia should have gone dissatisfied that judgment,
but he wanted it for himself, and he went with
some friends too, have had guns. He was convicted, and
(03:03):
and many people believe that the sentence was much greater
than it otherwise would have been in Vegas, and it
was payback for the non the not guilty verdict in
the murder case. Wait a minute, let me understand something.
So Jim Murray, three guys come storming into your place,
two of them armed, and you don't think he should
(03:25):
do his full sentence. I think his sentence was far well,
his sentence was far greater than anybody else involved in
that case. Everybody else is out of prison. He's not.
He got I think thirty years in prison. Yet, Look,
I think it was payback. There's no question in my mind.
I'm not saying that I want him to walk around free,
but I believe it was payback. You and I differ
(03:47):
on this because he was the mastermind. The other the
others were his minions. He was the mastermind. Orenthal. James
Simpson may be released from prison as early as this
October after just nine years behind bars on a thirty
three year sentence. Now, as you will recall, or Enthal,
(04:10):
James Simpson, the star NFL player, walked free on a
double murder of his wife, Nicole Brown and friend, a waiter,
Ron Goldman. He walked free on that and lived the
high life until he just couldn't stop himself. And this
has been adjudicated in court. He gets some of his
flunkeys and they go into a hotel and they arm
(04:34):
rob a guy at gunpoint to take back memorabilia the
guy was going to sell, claiming it was his. And
now he's whining that he should get out, and he
is getting out on good behavior. He was found guilty
in two thousand eight of twelve counts of kidnapping, robbery,
and assault with a deadly weapon. Was there any doubt
(04:56):
that he was the mastermind, Jim Murray, No, But I
would also call it the game that couldn't shoot the trade.
It wasn't a really well planned executed operation. It was
a spur of the moment thing. And and but Nancy,
let's just go back to the to the murder king.
Hold hold your horses. It was a spur of the moment, amateur.
(05:18):
You know what, when you have the wrong end of
the gun in your face, it doesn't matter if it's
a sharpshooter or an amateur on the other end. You know,
it makes a big man little and a little man big.
And that's what happened that day. I don't care who's
got the gun at my nostril. I want him to
go to jail, and I want to live to see
the next day. And he did go to jail, and
(05:39):
he is in jail. I'm simply telling you he's been
in jail. Let me tell you something, Jim, Alright, this
ain't the Apple Dumpling gang. Okay, so just stop all
that business. Now, what were you going to say. I'm
just telling you that he did more time than anybody
else involved. I get it, he's the mastermind. I give
you that. But I'm still on you that his sentence
(06:01):
was far greater than anyone else's. Am I supposed to
feel bad about that? No, it's simply it's simply a fact.
Same team. He just keeps saying he got more time. Well, fine,
he's lived like a kid behind and I and I
(06:22):
think I think it was payback because everyone, including the judge,
including the prosecutor in Vegas, were angry that O. J.
Simpson walked, and I understand the anger. However, I also
understand that that murder case was flawed for a number
of reasons. I think that they were mistakes. Mand I
(06:43):
think that one of the detectives, Mark Furman, just about
did that case in. I think that the makeup of
the jury, which both sides knew would be, would be
partial to O. J. Simpson's side that did the case in.
I think there were a lot of problems with the case.
We'll see. To me, that case supersedes, it transcends male, female, white, black, Hispanic,
(07:08):
inter city outside suburbs. I mean, to me, it was
so clear as the nose on your face. And now
all the evidence that has come out since the trial.
I mean from the Bruno' molly shoes too that he
owned that were tracked into Cole Brown and Ron Goldman's blood,
to him flunking the polygraph to the tune of a
(07:31):
minus forty something, I mean, it just keeps on coming.
Hold on, I want to quickly say thank you, not
only to Jim Ray for being with us, but too.
Simply Safe our sponsor making our podcast possible today. Simply
Safe makes home security affordable at a month. If you
(07:53):
log onto simply safe dot com slash Nancy, you get
another tem per cent off. So many cases I've covered,
and my first question is did they have a home
alarm system? Why didn't he go off? Did the perpetrator
know the code? What happened? What went wrong? And they
didn't have one? Now that is anecdotal, but I can
tell you this. I have an alarm system, My mom
(08:15):
has an alarm system, my brother has an alarm system.
I even keep the thing on when I'm here with
the twins with me because I just can't protect them enough.
So Simply Safe, thank you. And I guess that's what
you need to keep somebody like O. J. Simpson from
breaking into your house with his Apple Dumpling gang like
(08:36):
Jim Murray wants me to think they are. This guy
took eight hundred items at gunpoint from a Vegas hotel
room November two thousand seven, and he's done about nine
years behind bars. Don't worry about Simpson. When he gets out,
he gets around twenty five thousand dollars a month. That's
(08:57):
what some teachers make in a year. Three hundred thousand
dollars a year, two point seven million dollars throughout his
prison stay. During his prison stay from this NFL pension,
I mean, and what about life behind bars? What has
it been like for Simpson Jim Murray. First of all,
(09:21):
I need simply safe. If I'm going to do this
podcast because I need protection from you, I'm sorry, I'm
gonna lay off. It's just that, you know. Let me
just I just keep remember those crime scene photos. I
just keep it, and that photo of Nicole Brown's battered
(09:42):
face all beating up where everybody would turn the other
I turn away because he's an NFL star alone, keep
beating her, Nancy, I was. I was among a small
group of reporters who unfortunately, were invited to see the
autopsy photos. And they were life sized photos shown to
the jurors. And I'll tell you something, things I wish
I hadn't seen them. They were horrific. The way you
(10:04):
describe Nicole, you can't even in words portray the horror
that these pictures did. Um. Look, I feel the same
outrage you do. You know, sound out right when you
talk about well, because I've had twenty two years to
reflect on this, and and when I think about the
(10:25):
two years to get mad about it, sounds horrible. No, no, no, Well,
I I'm resigned to the fact that it happened, and
my my goal is to understand why it happened and
to see what do you do if and when another
case like this comes along, because you can't undo this case,
but you can learn from it. But but you are passionate,
(10:47):
and I respect that. He will need to win over
four of seven commissioners at his parole hearing, and that
will probably take place this summer. He will receive a
certain number of quote points in order to get out. Now,
let me ask you this, Jim, I never really understand
how anything happens in California, Okay, because it's um let
(11:11):
me just say, euphemistically, unlike any other criminal justice system
in the Union. Let me understand this. So could it
be like Manson and Manson's followers, they keep coming up
for parole and they never get it. Could that happen?
Could he not get it? Well? Yes, and his his
parole hearing will actually be just outside of Vegas because
(11:34):
he's in the Nevada jail of Nevada prison. But look,
he's he's had exact You're right. I'm sorry. I was
conceived just for a moment there. I was thinking about
the murder versus Vegas, and that's where the outrage occurred,
really in California. And and and you know, he has
shown good behavior. He supervises the men's jim in prison,
(11:58):
his sister goes to visit him, he does what he supervised. Way,
he supervises the men's gym. Yes, because this man has
not been working out. He has not been working out well.
His sister says, he's he's within a few pounds of
his weight when he got in when nine years ago,
and he's in pretty good since now. She says, I
have not seen the photo of them recently, but the
(12:20):
last time I saw him, he didn't look too great.
And then there was the girlfriend, remember her, She being
beaten up and would make all these excuses so I
fell down, this, that and the other thing. You know,
she never had any of those accents before she got
slung up with Simpson. Well, and don't forget Nicole Brown.
Simpson called the police more than eight times, and they
(12:41):
were called to their home and he was never arrested,
so you know, the outrage has to extend to that
as well. Now, what, if anything, if any role does
this last documentary o J made in America and the
mini series The People The o J. Simpson, you know
with Cuba Gooding. Yeah, in any way, do you think
(13:02):
that that is affecting this because you know, it just
won awards. I know, it's it's interesting, It's it's fascinating
how how the people who portray O J. Simpson and
and all of these supporting characters become almost folk heroes,
and and yet it was such a really horrific crime,
and and and it really captivated America in the worst
(13:23):
sort of way. I was frankly surprised that the FX
series did so well. I thought no one cared about
O J. Simpson, and apparently the mania is still very
much alive and kicking. The documentary I thought was great
because it really showed the background of who he was
and how how huge he was in sports, but how
he was divorced from the struggles of any African Americans
(13:47):
in the inner city, how he was not living that life,
not supportive of that, and really focused on one person,
O J. Simpson, and I think that came through I
hope it doesn't a fact the parole hearing, because frankly,
I don't think it should. Let me tell you a story.
Let me tell you a true story. You know. Um
(14:08):
I had was working as a county prosecutor in inner
City Atlanta, trying nothing but violent felonies when Simpson happened,
and through a fluke, no resume, no demo, real nothing,
I ended up being invited to co host with Johnny Cochrane.
Remember at first, yeah, And at first I actually said no.
(14:32):
I had no intention of leaving prosecution to go beyond TV.
But my elected district attorney, the longest serving in the
country at that time, decided to finally retire, and I
knew the newly elected DA would fire all the top litigators.
So I'm like, sure, here I come. And I moved
to New York with two boxes of clothes, curling iron,
(14:53):
and three hundred dollars. What could go wrong? So I
moved to New York and many times I would ask
it over and overthinking he'd give me a different answer,
But I'd say, Cochrane, did Simpson do it? Just Just
tell me. Every time he kind of like raised his
hands up and have a little smile. He go, jury
(15:15):
acquitted him. That's all he would say. He would never
say oh h G double well, no he didn't do it,
just said jury acquitted him. But you know, you know,
you you knew Johnny very well. There you have it.
I met Johnny Cochrane when I was twenty six. I
was a young reporter in Los Angeles, and he was
(15:36):
so gracious to me. Actually, every time I've ever seen
him since he was he was a very decent, honorable man.
I I wonder if he made a deal with the
devil when he took that case, because it just well,
I tell you, his wife is just the sweetest lady
(15:56):
and super smart. Johnny Cochrane's wife, and um, she's a
business person, a very very good business and you know,
his children super nice and um this the Simpson thing.
I'm telling you. Everybody is seemingly been cursed by Simpson.
(16:17):
So how has Simpson avoided paying this thirty three point
five million dollar civil order? I know through a variety
of means. For instance, he moved to Florida because in
Florida there is a law that blocks any forced sale
of a residence through a lawsuit so we can hold
(16:38):
on to his mansion in Florida. I don't think a
creditor can attach or get ahold of a garnish a pension.
And he's got this huge pension of grand a year
a month and nobody can get it. But then all
that memorabilia of his over all the years, you know, jerseys, Heisman, rings,
(17:04):
blah blah, all that that could be sold to satisfy
the thirty three million, but never has happened. I'll tell
you what what will make you even more angry when
he was in I don't want to stroke out while
the children are still just nine years old, okay, because
you know I'll tell you why. Wait, wait a minute,
(17:24):
let me tell you why I don't want to stroke
out right now over Simpson, because my children are only
nine and I don't want me to go get buried,
you know, back home and making Georgia and my husband
run out and you know, marry some tramp and then
she raises my children in wonderful woman who cares for
(17:47):
him just as much as you. Nancy, that's a yeah,
but what about my children? She can love him all
she wants to, but nobody's gonna Hey, you know you
are going to get in trouble because nobody's gonna love
more than mommy. Okay, so why can I stroke out
about O? J. Simpson? But okay, what were you saying
(18:11):
every single day that he was in custody during that trial?
There were footballs and pictures and various items of memorabilia
that he would sign to generate income while he was
in custody. I hear silence, which is never good from you.
(18:32):
Oh that is so painful. Okay, how much are we
talking about? How much do you think that he We're
talking about hundreds of thousands, if not more so every
day every day. Yes, like a like a like a
like a machine, just stacks and stacks of photos and
(18:54):
name it. And they were all sold like a machine. Yeah,
I know, I don't want you to stroke ount. Take
a deep breath and just know that hurts me so much.
All that money should go to the victim's family. Okay,
what was his life like? What was his life light
behind bars? Look, I don't think it's it's great by
(19:14):
our standards. I think he's made the best of it.
I think that his life before he went behind bars, frankly,
was was over life as he knew it, because he
was a pariah after the case, after the murder case,
I was. I was at the dance recital the day
of the murders because both of our daughters were in
the same dance class. And and I see him. I
(19:36):
saw him that year, and I saw him the year before.
And he was a hero before these murders. People loved him,
they worshiped him, and he lived for that. So when
he became a pariah, life as he knew it was over.
So regardless, yes, I agree he should he should not
have the memorability, you shouldn't have the money. But he
missed the one thing that he craved the most, and
(19:58):
that's the adulation, fame, the freedom to go anywhere, anytime
and be loved. That's over and it will always be over.
I think so. Uh And and frankly it does. It
pales in comparison to what the victims paid. They paid
with their lives. I get it. But he suffered, not
not enough, I agree, But he suffered. And I also
(20:21):
think that he has a good chance of getting out
when he's up for parole on this here to excuse me,
excuse me, excuse me to quote Lego Batman, I hate
everything you just said. Okay, I don't want to hear
how he how he's been through so much because I'm
just not working for me. Now, let's talk about his
(20:44):
life behind bars, Fitch, I've been dressed down by Lego,
So let's talk about his life behind prisoner one zero,
two seven, eight to zero. Yes, I have memorized it.
That was one zero to zero. Is treated like royalty
(21:05):
behind bars at love Lock in Nevada. He gets in
the same blue uniform, has a bunk bed, has a sink,
and a cell mate. He gets up at six thirty
like everybody else. He has cold cereal with a muffining fruit.
Then he heads to his work shift. He hangs out
(21:25):
at the prison gym, getting other people to do his work.
But that's where the similarity ends. Okay, so many perks
he has had behind bars. He has been able to
pay people to clean his room, he has been able
(21:45):
to pay for special meals. He has had extra visitation.
He watches sports in his TV on his TV in
his cell, he watches sport courts religiously. He gets visits
from a former manager. He has very few limits of
(22:11):
what he can view. I mean, it goes on and
on and on. I mean to basically pay to have
a butler behind bars, thoughts sounds like a nice retirement home.
Come on, and you guys are acting like he's been
through so much. I know, Jim, What if O J
calls you and says, meet me and Brentwood, we're gonna
play golf. And this is after he gets out of prison.
(22:33):
Would you go play golf with him? No? No, but
I would love to interview him. Of course, I really
would love to interview him. And if that interview just
happened to take place on a gospel if that interview
just happened to take place on a golf course, I
would watch. I would interview, no problem with that. I
like interviewing people in a setting that makes them feel
comfortable because they tend to open up. Where do you well?
(22:55):
Of course he's going to go back to Florida. Nancy, Nancy,
are you telling me you would not want an interview
O Jason? Honestly, Hey, with a golf club in her hand,
and at my eighty four year old judge, he would
tell the jury, it is your duty to make all
witnesses speak the truth, and and and perjury on no onah.
(23:15):
In other words, both of the things you just sick
can be true. But I want to interview him. No,
he is a murderer and he has walked free. And
not only has he killed two innocent people, he also
abused Lady Justice by laughing in her face after walking
free on a double murder, committing other crimes such as
(23:37):
beating his girlfriend horrifically, and then this armed robbery in Nevada.
He spit in her face. So no, I would not
interview him. Would I do it? Yes? Of course, knowing
everything he would say would be a big fat lie.
But he has not been suffering in prison. I can
tell you that he eats like a horse, he exercises,
(24:01):
he's got a flat screen TV. Okay, I don't have
a flat screen TV in my bedroom. No, the toys
don't have a flat screen TV in their bedroom. To me,
he's had the good life behind bars. So now he's
going to get out. Obviously he's going to go home
to Florida, right, I would think so, Yes, that's home
(24:23):
for him now. A source from behind Bars has Quota
Simpson as saying only two people alive know who committed
the Brentwood murders him O J. Simpson and Al Cowing's
a c He is the guy that drove Simpson and
his white Bronco when I guess Simpson was what holding
(24:44):
himself hostage, threatening if police came, he had shoot himself. Okay,
he held himself hostage and somehow it worked. It did work,
you right. You know what I've forgotten, Nancy, what I
have to say and what ends know this. You've got
so many millions of people love you, and I understand why,
(25:05):
because you're lovable. However, what I forgot was my need
for a kevlar vest when I'm being interviewed by you
for protection. Okay, I'm gonna tell a story about Jim
Mora And I know you hate this. I know you
hate this, but I'm gonna do it. I'm doing it.
I'm doing it. Okay. So when I grew up, we
(25:26):
would watch everything wholesome right, and one of the things
we could watch don't get mad at me, Jim, okay,
don't is Gidget. And you know where I'm going with this.
Did you know Alan that Jim Murray's dad is Moondoggy
on the Gidget movies? And when I found that out.
(25:48):
That's right, James, Darren, you could you could just say
anything and I would still be in total all of
you because when I was a young girl, I thought
your dad was the coolest guy ever moon hockey. And
that's something I've had to live with. Every girl I've
ever liked how to crush on my dad. So imagine that.
Why should today be any different? We got all of
(26:08):
his good looks, though, well, Nancy's always reminded me of Gidget.
Actually that's a compliment with a machete's, you know. You know,
I wonder how this makes. I wonder how this makes
the Goldman's and the browns Field. I'm guessing that you've
maintained a relationship with him. I've become friends with Kim
(26:29):
Goldman and I've known it for twenty two years or
something like that, and she it's difficult for them. It's
clearly this this is something the pain never goes away.
Every birthday, every everything that happens with with their families,
there there's a there's a place missing. And not only
(26:50):
not only are they're missing Ron and Nicole, but they're
missing all the things around them. Ron never got married,
never had children, so they are grandchildren that are missing
for the Goldman's you know, it's um, it's horrific, it's
it's unimaginable. And you know there's another thing I wanted
to tell you. I got some of the information from
a guy. His name is Jeffrey Felix, and he is
(27:11):
a retired c I Correctional Institute officer, and he watched
over Simpson. He finally, after many many years, wrote a
book called Guarding the Jews. How O J. Simpson became
My prison b FF. Okay, Now this is the story
that Jeffrey Felix gives. He um that said that the
(27:34):
whole knife thing where you know, authorities went looking for
the knife one time, he thought it was a joke.
And uh then he said that one time Simpson told him,
as I mentioned, the only that only two people alive
knew who committed the murders of Nicole Brown, a Ron Goldman,
(27:55):
him Simpson and Callings. And he's said that Simpson was
washing his hands and looked up in the mirror and
I and I'm talking about the guard said, Juice, you
just solve the Brent with murders. You're looking at the
murderer right in the mirror. And he goes on and says,
(28:16):
he just gave me a glare. Quote, he gave me
a kind of a dirty look, and then he kind
of smiled after he kind of shrugged it off, and
that was it. Creepy. See, if the jury had heard that,
maybe it would have made a difference. I don't know,
but this is what I do know. If you want
your voice to be heard, go online to the Vegas
(28:39):
Pardoning Parole, to Nevada Pardoner and Parole and let your
voice be heard. If you do not want Simpson to
walk free. Okay, Jim Murray, Sorry, Alan, I'm totally ignoring
you because they've got Murray here with me. Jim. Look,
I'm just glad to get a little bit of relief
from from the he himself. I do this every morning, Jim,
(29:02):
every more. You should have jumped in a little more.
I noticed you didn't give me any cover. I'm going
to take that as a compliment, but it's a compliment.
Give me your final thoughts, and and don't start telling
me about how he's been. Yeah, he's suffered too much.
Just stops not. I haven't told you that he suffered
too much. I don't believe he suffered too much car around.
(29:27):
I do not believe. What is your take away? Do
you think he's really going to walk? Do you think
he's going to walk? I think he will walk. Yes,
I do. Oh that hurt? Okay, go ahead, I think
he will. I have to look at this case alone,
(29:51):
because he was he was acquitted in California. So the judge,
the parole board in in Nevada should not hold a
case against him legally, I understand ethically, I understand morally,
but legally they should not hold that other case against him. Um.
So I think they have to look at how he's
(30:11):
behaved in prison, what his sentence was, what what has
transpired since? Is there any remorse? Um? And by the way,
I've never heard I've heard of no remorse. I shouldn't
have said anything, but so, uh, I do think. I
think there's a good chance. I think there's a good
chance that Hey, you know what, it sounds like a vacation.
(30:34):
I'm a joint sentance because this is telling me. You're
telling me today Nancy on TV. Yeah, UM, they'll throw
anything the next time you see. You know what, I'm
going to have a little faith. I'm gonna go I'm
gonna have a little faith. I'm going to go out
on a lamb and I'm gonna say no that they
(30:55):
will not let him go this time, much as they
have kept the Manson followers behind bars even though they
were eligible for parole on principle. So you know what,
I'm calling on the pardoner parole board to do the
right thing and keep this guy behind bars. That's that's
what I'm saying. Okay, you get to a position of
(31:15):
power like being on the parole board so you can
do the right thing, the right thing. And I don't
care what's written in a law book, a dusty law
book on a shelf. I'm talking about what is right
and what is wrong. Let's see what they do. Okay,
Jim Murray, the next time I see you on TV,
which is probably going to be today, I will be
reaching through the screen and grabbing you by your ear
(31:38):
and not twisting it for all the things you've said,
and watch out your next I want to thank first
of all, simply, I want all of your listeners to
know this. I believe in my heart you always strive
to do the right thing, and so I respect what
you're saying. Thank you, Son of Moon, Doggie, okay it,
(32:01):
I love you, man, Hey, Jim, When did we first
actually meet? Not on TV on the airways, but when
was it? When was luck? When did we actually when
did when we meet meet in person? Yeah? I don't know.
I remember. I remember the first time I saw you.
I heard angels singing the pot and I said, this
(32:25):
is nasty. Greg. You've always been so wonderful and gracious
and kind to me and and and I love my man.
I really find you. I'm both attracted to you and frightened.
W It's it's a fascinating dynamic, as it should be.
And please tell Jabra norvil I said, hello, I love her.
(32:46):
I want to thank three people. First of all, Too
Simply Safe, our sponsor for today that makes home security affordable.
Right or wrong. Whenever I read about, or hear about,
or cover or investigate a case that involves a home invasion,
I think, did they have a system? Did they have
(33:06):
a home alarm system? I really remember thinking about it
during the Teresa Seaver's case in Florida when I heard
when I heard she had been blunted, and did they
have an alarm system? And I found out they did?
And the killer knew the code that I can't help,
but that's my first reaction. I have an alarm system
and I keep it on, and I am proud that
(33:28):
Simply Safe is our sponsor making home security affordable for
our country's families. Thank you, Simply Safe, Allen the Duke Duke,
Thank you for being with us. In a special thank
you to my longtime friend Jim Murray. Love love you
to take care. Hey guys, thank you for being with
(33:49):
us on crime Stories. Goodbye friends,
Host
Nancy Grace
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