November 24, 2025 • 42 mins
More than 31 years after O.J. Simpson was found liable for the deaths of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman, in a wrongful death civil trial, Simpson’s estate finally agrees to pay damages awarded to Goldman’s family in 1997.
While the jury granted the families $33.5 million, Simpson’s estate has agreed to pay Ron's father, Fred Goldman, $58 million plus interest.
It’s unclear what spurred the change of heart; executor Malcolm Lavergne previously swore to never pay Goldman a dollar.
Although the estate accepts the $58 million claim, the executor says he expects to collect only $500,000 to $1 million total in assets. The estate plans to auction off Simpson's possessions to raise money. Though Lavergne agrees to the $58 million payout, it’s unclear whether the estate can afford the full amount.
Executor Malcolm Lavergne says the estate plans to pay out as much of the sum as possible as items continue to be auctioned off. However, Lavergne claims several items were stolen, and of those that have been located, legal battles to recover them are still ongoing.
One year after Simpson is acquitted in criminal court, a civil trial begins. The families of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman sue Simpson for their wrongful deaths. The civil trial lasts five months, the 12-person jury finding OJ Simpson responsible for the murders of Nicole and Ron.
The jury awards $8.5 million in compensatory damages to Ron Goldman's parents, and determine Simpson should pay $25 million in punitive damages to both victims’ families.
The Goldman family isn’t the only one Simpson owes money. Simpson’s estate owes federal taxes and state taxes as well. While Lavergne agrees to the Goldman settlement.
He says his priority is paying off the IRS. Lavergne is doubling down on skirting the California taxes, saying the state will have to sue to recover the $637,000 claim they filed with the estate.
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Chris Melcher - Celebrity Lawyer and Partner at Walzer Melcher & Yoda (with deep experience in complex family law litigation)
- Dr. Cheryl Arutt- Licensed Clinical and Forensic Psychologist Specializing in Trauma Recovery, PTSD and EMDR; website: CreativeEMDR.com, IG: @askdrcheryl
- Jon Buehler - Former Detective for Modesto Police Department, California (31 years in Robbery and Homicide), Detective in Scott Peterson Investigation
- Shannon Henry - President & Founder of SASS Go (Surviving Assault Standing Strong: a nonprofit on a mission to eradicate abuse, trafficking and violence against women and girls globally) Case Consultant, and Adjunct Professor at the University of South Carolina in the Department of Education; @sassgoglobal on FB, Instagram, X, and TikTok
- Alexis Tereszcuk - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories'
- Dave Mack - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories'
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. O. J. Simpson spinning in
hell tonight, forced to pay fifty eight million dollars to
his murder victims. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Here.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Can you send some one to my house or my
ex husband or my husband. He's broke into my house
and he's ranting and raving. Now he's just walked out
the front yard.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
And know that he's crazy.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
You know, just looking at him makes me sick. The
one thing that makes me feel a little bit better
is I know he is spinning out right now and
hell with Satan, having to be forced to pay out
fifty eight million dollars to his murder victims' families, This
after he stonewalled over thirty years, engaging in all sorts
(01:01):
of nefarious activity to avoid paying the families of the
two people. He don't look at me and smile. Take
that down. I don't even want to see that. He
tried every move he could to avoid paying them, and
he swore he would never pay them. This as he
(01:22):
lived the high life. A mansion in Florida, another home,
I guess, a vacation home, playing golf on beautiful golf
courses every day, being guests and expensive restaurants hotels all
across the world. Let's see a shot from our friends
at TMZ of Orenthal James Simpson partying a hearty this
(01:46):
as he knows. Oh yeah, there you go. He would
find one Nicole Brown look alike after the next. We've
got clips of him partying all over the world, clips
out the Yunion. Why didn't he have a job to
pay off his debts? Again, that's from our buddy Harvey
Levin over at t m Z. Let's get down right
(02:11):
to it. This is where it all starts.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Listen, can you send someone to my house? What's the problem?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
My ex husband or my husband just broke into my
house and he's ranting and raving. Now he's just walked
down the front yard and no, but he's crazy. What
what's you wearing right now? Pants and a shirt?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Okay, I've heard so many nihl on one calls from
Nicole Brown. Some of them have him beating the door down,
screaming at her, trying to just get through a lot
door so he could attack her. And let's take a lesson.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Someone over here now, three two five, Bretton agree he
was back?
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Please? Okay? What does he look?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Okay, gentleman, I think you know his record?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Be over here? Okay, what is he doing there? He's
throw him over? Wait a minute, what kind of cornby?
Speaker 3 (03:14):
He's in a white Bronco broke for that story.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
I'll wait a minute.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
What's your name?
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Okay? Is he the sports capter or whatever? Yeah? Okay,
what did you? Just wait a minute? What is he?
Jo Brettan?
Speaker 5 (03:45):
He's Joe yelling at you?
Speaker 4 (03:54):
You damn Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
To John Bueller joining us former detective adestopd. You know
him well. He is one of the elite detectives that
put Scott Peterson behind bars. Peterson behind bars tonight, having
a glass of Pruno and plotting his next appeal. Do
you hear Simpson in the background screaming and beating on
(04:19):
the door? Do you hear that? I hear it.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (04:25):
And this falls into the tail end of the domestic
violence cycle that people go through, whether they're famous or
not famous, And of course in this one there was
a lot of fame involved in it. But if you
back up the clock and you take a look at
the relationship between Nicole and Oj, he even started pushing
her a little bit when they were dating, when she
was eighteen and he was thirty. There would be little
things that he would do that she apparently didn't think
(04:47):
much of, and she let it go. And this is
the problem that we run into with a charming person.
The devil walks amongst us, usually disguised in a pretty
good look and frame, but they push every time, and
they get away with it. They'll push a little bit further,
and eventually it ends up like this, And it's not
the only one. We've had many of them.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
From the beginning of that evening, before Nicole and Ron
were slaughtered in the front yard, Simpson was angry. Now
you hear my old co anchor Johnny Cochrane trying to
smooth it all over in front of the jury.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Listen, is missus Simpson kissing Denise Brown kiss mister Nitha
Brown is mister Lewis Brown was talking to a friend
that's his son Justin let me kisses.
Speaker 7 (05:43):
After Sydney's dance recital, Nicole, the children, and her family
leave Simpson behind at the school and go to dinner
with friends at Metzaluna and Brentwood. Nichole's mother accidentally leaves
her glasses behind. And Ron Goldman, a friend of Nicole
who works at the restaurant, volunteers to drop the glasses
off at Nichole's house. Leaves metz Lena at nine forty
five pm.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Not closing arguments from our friends at Court TV So
to You, Alexis Tereschuk joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter.
Alexis he was already stewing because he did not get
invited to the family dinner after Sydney's recital. That started
the whole thing.
Speaker 8 (06:24):
That was right they he wanted to go to dinner
with them. Nicole at this point was done with him.
She had been calling nine to one one over ten times.
She keeps calling. She keeps saying, you've got to come
and help me. This man is going to kill me.
He's here. He's breaking down the door. He's hitting me.
You've been here in the In one of the calls,
she's screaming. You can actually hear him hitting her. So
he she says, no, you're not coming to dinner. I'm
(06:46):
going with my friends and my family. She goes to dinner.
Two hours later, Nicole Brown is dead.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Shannon Henry joining US president founder SASS Surviving Assault Standing Strong, Shannon,
I misspoke. I said this is what started it. But
in domestic abuse, nothing that the woman, typically a woman does,
(07:14):
is the reason for the abuse. Him not getting invited
to dinner that night after the recital was an excuse
because the beatings, the torture, the verbal abuse, the beatings
to near death actually are not triggered because he didn't
(07:34):
get invited to go out with his mother in law.
He wanted to beat her, he wanted to kill her.
It has nothing to do with the family get together.
Speaker 9 (07:46):
It has nothing to do with the family get together,
and it has everything to do with the fact that
this man was in control of her. We have to
start thinking of these victims as people that are inside
of cages. Can't see the bars from the outside, but
the bars are very much controlled. They are control over finances, children,
(08:08):
your every move, your mind, your body. They're stalking, they're intimidating,
and any opportunity to be violent and execute more power
and control over the victim is exactly what they'll do,
and this was a perfect opportunity for him.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
The evening progresses.
Speaker 10 (08:24):
Not invited to family dinner at Mezzaluna, Simpson grabs McDonald's
with his house guest, Kaylin Cato. The pair returned to
Simpson's home around nine forty pm. Around ten forty pm,
Kaylin here's several thumps outside his room and goes to investigate,
but gets distracted by the limo waiting outside. Simpsons gate
hired to take him to the airport.
Speaker 7 (08:46):
A neighbor sees Nicoll's white Akita Cato wandering the neighborhood alone, barking, agitated,
and on closer inspection they notice he has bloody pause.
The neighbor follows Cato to investigate, discovering Nicole and Ron's bodies.
At twelve ten as joining.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
US high profile defense attorney celebrity lawyer Chris Melcher. He
is a partner at Wallzer, Metcher and Yode. Chris, thank
you for being with us. You know I've started timelines,
criminal timelines and a lot of odd ways. It can
be from a photograph. It can be from a nav
system when a car is turned off and we know
(09:22):
that moment. It can be from a watch that's broken
at the time of a murder or attack. There are
many ways to start a criminal time line. This timeline
was actually started with the dog out willing, and the
witness at trial referred to the dog as emitting a
(09:44):
woful cry unlike anything the neighbor had heard before, a
plaintive cry.
Speaker 11 (09:51):
Yeah, I mean that really speaks to the horrific nature
of that crime scene, but also Nicole's nature and having
this pet that of loved her and was experiencing this
crime scene and what happened to Nicole and really calling
for help. So there's a lot of richness there in
(10:11):
the prosecution, you know, kind of relating that story in
the timeline, and it is confounding, you know, to think
that after all of this evidence, these nine to one
to one tapes, that he was acquitted in the criminal trial.
It's just absolutely amazing looking back at this from so
many years.
Speaker 10 (10:30):
Detectives Furman and Fanatter go to simpsons nearby home to
notify him of his wife's death. Furman sees what appears
to be bloodstains on Simpson's Ford Bronco and decides to
jump the fence to gain access to Simpson's property. Fanat
Or declares Simpson's home a crime scene and goes to
secure a search warrant for the house.
Speaker 7 (10:48):
Around seven am, Simpson leaves home at eleven ten pm
to catch an eleven forty five flight to Chicago, lands
by thirty am, checking into the O'Hare Plaza hotel at
six fifteen seven am. Detectives informed Simpson of the murders
over the phone and ask him to return to La
Simpson flies back June thirteenth and is handcuffed on arrival.
Simson his question for hours and investigators photograph a cut
(11:11):
on his finger.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
You know, it's amazing to me, John Bueller, that Furman,
if this is part of some conspiracy to convict a
beloved sports legend. Furman sees at the beginning bloodstains on
Simpson's ford bronco at the very beginning, there's not time
(11:35):
to create a conspiracy of any sort, well not.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
Even remotely, because Simpson, or correction Furman, he didn't even
work at Downtown at Robbery Homicide Division. He was a
divisional detective in that area, so he didn't even really
know laying in vent at it very much at the time.
But also his hopping the fence, you can take a
look at that, his exigen circumstances, he might have thought
that OJ could also be a victim. Nothing really wrong
(11:59):
with what he did. There when you take a look
at the whole case and you and you go to
the conclusion of it, excluding the jury's verdict, there's no
exculpatory evidence in this case whatsoever. And when you have
a premeditated murder that's carried out, it's going to be
rare that you'll have an eyewitness or you'll have a videotape.
But when when it comes to this case, there's nobody
(12:19):
else that they could ever determined would have any animosity
towards Uh that either Nicole or mister Goldman, because there
was just nothing there. Everything, every arrow and dagger of
circumstantial evidence pointed right back to Oj.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
I'm trying to figure out how OJ Simpson, for all
these decades managed to avoid paying the Goldmans and the
Browns any money on the multi million dollar civil verdict
against him. Let's forge forward.
Speaker 12 (12:50):
Listen reporting, I'm coming up to five three weeks.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Okay, right now, we all we all okay, but you
gotta telegraph he's back off, He's still alive. He's got
to go through it. Okay, Hold on a minute, my god,
let me get okay, hold on the moment. There is
everything else, Okay, everything right now, go to everything to
go all about you want to with mob with Doug. Okay,
(13:26):
so that's all. That's all we have got to go
to what's your name? You know I am somebody? All right, sir?
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Hold on this morning, I mean, let's get right down
to it. He wants to go to his mother's house. Uh.
Doctor Cheryl Eric joining us clinical forensic psychologists specializing in
cases just like this. Every descendant I have ever had,
without fail, the vast majority, when they skip bond, they
(13:58):
run home to mommy and hide under the batter in
the closet, never fails. Where do you go when you're
in trouble? To mommy? And here you have a c
callings his wingman telling the police to back off and
let Simpson go home to mommy. Really, and he's holding
himself hostage.
Speaker 13 (14:20):
Yes, and we also see that this is another example
of a defendant making demands while he's being arrested. And
we have seen this over and over again. Power and control.
He's going to call the shots, he's going to say
what's going to happen next? And calling was helping him.
I mean we remember well, this low speed chase, it
(14:43):
went on and on and on and you know, there
was a lot of special treatment for this man. There
was a lot of privilege for this man, and you
know it. These events were so devastating for the Browns
and Goldman family. They've been put through such hell all
(15:03):
of these years and it is really something to see
this finally come to a head and to see some
sort of retribution from Katie.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Let me understand something, John Biel or I have never
seen someone hold themselves hostage and the police actually go
along with it. And this is during the low speed
chase with people hanging off bridges with signs that go
go jeus free OJ blah blah blah. What was that
and why did the police allow it?
Speaker 6 (15:35):
Well, you got to remember there was a pretty big
microscope on LAPD at the time. We've just come out
of Rodney King a few years earlier than that, and
their actions are going to be scrutinized if OJ happened
to commit suicide because they didn't do everything that they
possibly could to keep that from happening. The whole world
is going to line up against them. So it's one
(15:55):
of those things where he got special treatment throughout the
time that he was dealt with because of his fame,
because of the football link, and because he is very charming,
just like so many of these guys are. And when
it comes to this, they were kind of put in
a bad position because no matter what the dispatch complaint
taker did, whatever the dispatchers did, La County Sheriff's Department,
(16:19):
and you throw in CHP in there along with LAPD,
anything they did that would push OJ to go over
the edge would be put right back on top of
them a big time. But also, if you really look
at it, what guy who didn't kill his wife is
going to be doing these kinds of antics. So all
of the things that he did after the killing just
line up with the fact that he did the killings.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
In the last days, OJ Simpson absolutely spinning in hell
as his state forced to pay nearly sixty million dollars
on a civil verdic that happened about thirty years ago
that through all of his conniding and scheming he managed
(17:01):
to avoid his entire life.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Are reporting I have OJ in the car, but you
gotta telegraph he's still alive. You've got to go through there. Hey,
hold on them allent.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Finally, after stonewalling for decades, Simpson's estate forced to pay
the families revenge revenge for his murder victims straight out
to Alexis Tereschuk, Crime Stori's investigative reporter, what happened.
Speaker 8 (17:38):
After the civil trial? O. J. Simpson was ordered to
pay thirty three million dollars to Fred Goldman. He spent
over three decades not paying it.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
O J.
Speaker 8 (17:47):
Simpson dies and finally Malcolm Laverne, his executor of his estate,
said we are going to pay it. The Goldman family
submitted an amount. They submitted one hundred million dollars to
the judge. The judge said, I think this isn't maliciously,
but I don't think these are the right numbers. And
the judge has ordered him to pay fifty seven million
(18:07):
dollars to the Goldman family.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Well, I believe that the Gulman family was including the
interest on what Simpson didn't pay for all those years. Listen.
Speaker 14 (18:18):
The judgment for both families was thirty three and a
half million dollars split. Has he willingly paid anything?
Speaker 13 (18:28):
No.
Speaker 7 (18:29):
Before his death, Simpson paid just one hundred and thirty
three thousand dollars on the thirty three point five million
he owed the families of Ron and Nicole, while Simpson
was forced to auction his Heisman trophy for about two
hundred and fifty thousand dollars and turn over the rights
to video game royalties and the unpublished book If I
Did It. The former Hall of Famer skirted payments by
(18:49):
moving out to Nevada and Florida, where state law prevented
the seizure of his NFL pension and residence.
Speaker 14 (18:55):
Is he has had his life you over all these years,
if he's had opportunities to do things Ron didn't.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
From our friends at ABC, and there were reports Alexis
Tereschuk that Ron Golman's father was so incensed over what
Simpson was doing that he tried to get payment from Simpson.
Because Simpson had a whole ring of cash only businesses,
(19:31):
so there was no record of him making money, he
was making money hand over fist that Ron's dad, we
were told, showed up at a couple of these signing
events where Simpson would only sign photos for stacks of money.
He would not sign anything related to the murders or
(19:53):
his civil conviction, none of that. He would sign things
basically anything but that for cash. He would charge people
to go play golf with them. He would charge people
money to have lunch with him or to have dinner
with him. They were all paid events and it had
(20:13):
to be in cash. He could make fifteen thousand dollars
in a day, and apparently, as the reports go, Goldman
tried to go and collect the cash and it was
given like a bag of pennies and laughed out this
after Ron was butcher crime stories with Nancy Grace. So
(20:46):
let's start at the beginning. How did let's talk about
the cash only ring of businesses Simpson ran? What happened?
Speaker 8 (20:58):
Simpson figured out very early on that if he didn't
have a record of any money, then he wouldn't have
to pay it because Fred Goldman was relentless in getting
justice for his son. So Simpson would have people organize
a signing in a hotel room and a private club
and a private place, and he would sign autographs. He'd
sign pictures from his football days, from his broadcasting days,
(21:21):
and people would have to pay cash, and they would
literally give him stacks of cash. This doesn't like one
hundred dollars, it was thousands of dollars. He would get
that first signings if he played golf. You see, he
played golf a lot in the Vadi. He was constantly
on the golf course. He at one point said he
was searching for the killers, and the joke was on
the golf course. Ojay No, So the people that played
(21:44):
with him, they would have to pay him cash as well.
It was never just let's hang out with Oja as
a fun time. It was constantly running this cash ring
to keep him in a lifestyle that he enjoyed and
to make sure that Fred Goldman could never take it.
And if he would appear on podcasts, they would pay
him cash. Any appearance that oj made, any luncheon that
he did, anything with what you would think were friends
(22:07):
was just a business transaction, totally in cash in order
to wort the settlement that the court ordered him to pay.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Chris Milcher joining US high profile celebrity lawyer and partner
at a very prestigious law firm. Chris, how did he
get away with that? I mean, we're thousands of miles
away from where this was happening, but we all know
it was happening, even the gold Ones. It was happening
cash only, to the tune of fifteen twenty thousand dollars
(22:36):
a day.
Speaker 11 (22:37):
Well, Nancy. This is the problem in court. When you
get a judgment, it's a piece of paper and then
it's up to you to collect it. And Fred Goldman
did pursue OJ and made him kind of live in
this underground economy where he was getting cash and it
just was very difficult to collect anything. But he was
under a microscope. The NFL pensions, though, are protected under
(23:00):
federal law called Arissa.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Well, Chris, wouldn't the IRS be interested in a cash
only ring of businesses? This goes from memorabilia to launches
and dinners, to speaking events to podcasts. This guy's making
hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Nobody can take
his mansions, So wouldn't the IRS be three inches up
(23:24):
his tailpipe on this?
Speaker 11 (23:27):
Well, that's absolutely right. He was not only failing to
pay the judgment, but he's also failing to pay taxes.
And we're seeing that in the probate case that's being
administered here after his death, that the IRS and the
California Franchise Tax Board are creditors of OJ Simpsons. So
they're saying they want to get paid and because for
(23:49):
these taxes on undeclared income, and it.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Wasn't just the cash for golf, Alexis Tereschuk. He had
other schemes to avoid paying the rounds and the Goldmans
a lot of schemes and he got away with it
and everything else his whole life until now, what about
his mansion in Florida and a second home in Nevada.
Speaker 8 (24:13):
Seriously, so Ojsonson, after Nicole and Ron were killed, had
got a home in Florida. Florida and Nevada both have
laws that you cannot take the home away from somebody
in order to pay for civil trials, punishments and things
like that. It's a homestead law. And he was very
smart about this. He did it specifically in Florida and Nevada,
(24:36):
knowing that neither of these two states would allow the
Goldmans to take the money from him. So that's what
he did. He planned ahead, and he also lived off.
He has a SAG pension the Screen Actors Guild because
he was in a lot of movies after his football career,
and he has a pension from the NFL. Neither of
those pensions can be touched for payments for trials and
(24:57):
verdicts and things like that. He cannot be to pay
that out is his money, no matter what Alexis.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Have you seen his Florida home. I'm looking at it
right now. It's beautifully manicured, palm trees everywhere and has
a private basketball court and has a huge pool with
a palm tree overlooking it. It's high tech kitchen fireplaces
all around the home. It's really expensive. How come he
didn't have to sell that Chris Melcher and pay the
(25:26):
murder victims' families.
Speaker 11 (25:28):
So unfortunately, there are protections in Florida for a home
and it's called the Homestead Act, and oj was aware
of this. That's why, undoubtedly he purchased this expensive home there,
because the Goldmans could not use that home as a
source of collecting. It's just protected under law.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
You're seeing in the background there is Simpson, we believe,
at his pool at his home and Emma Wright. Is
there a Nevada home? Well, Alexis Tereschuk.
Speaker 8 (26:02):
There is a home in Nevada. You know, when he
got out of prison, he was actually struggling to find
a place to live. No state wanted to take him.
He was allowed to stay in Nevada and he bought
a home in a private gated community, very expensive, very
fancy as well, and Nevada has the same law as Florida,
and so the Goldmans could not touch this home either.
(26:23):
He lived there, he did his daily He got a
Twitter account and he would post daily videos from his
yard from his home, talked about his lifestyle with his
fantasy football picks, and talked about golf.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
There.
Speaker 8 (26:35):
You see, this is the Nevada home, and that's where
he spent the last of his years.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
I'm looking at his Nevada home right now. It is
directly on a golf course. Simpson's living in a massive home,
a Vegas home on a golf course. It's palatial, five
thousand square foot and a private Vegas gated community right
next to golf course. Now in one of the homes
(27:03):
where he was living, it was a home of a
longtime friend. Five bedrooms, five and a half bathpool, hot tub,
putting grain, twenty minutes from the Vegas Strip. It goes
on and on. What I don't understand to you, John Buehler,
as how a double killer can live like this when
(27:24):
he should be behind bars and never paid the victims.
Speaker 6 (27:29):
Well, pretty obvious flaw in the system when it comes
to stuff like that. I understand the laws set up
to protect people's property when they're living there the rest
of their life. But at the same time, it would
seem that something should be changed on that where he
should be forced to give up one of those two
homes to the victims' families. On this, I mean, I
live in one house. I wouldn't want to. But he's
(27:51):
a pretty shrewd character when he's coming up with this stuff.
I'm sure he had a team of pretty good lawyers
that were advising him on how to get away with
this stuff. Not only to get away with the murder,
but he got away with not paying for many, many years.
Speaker 7 (28:02):
More than thirty one years after Simpson is found liable
for the deaths of Nicolo and Ron, Simpson's estate finally
agrees to pay damages to Goldman's family. Simpson's estate has
agreed to pay Ron's father Fred fifty eight million dollars
plus interest. It's unclear what spurred the change of heart.
Executor Malcolm Laverne previously swearing to never pay Goldman a dollar.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Okay, right now, all about you want the dollars, okay,
so that's all ours all. We have got a governor
the cpture find anything for you know who I am? God,
all right, you sure hold on this Lord.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
In the last days an incredible turn of events. Simpson
must be spinning out as his estate forced to pay
fifty eight million dollars to his murder victim's family. Now
he's skated at the criminal trial. As we all recall,
I remember this, this is O. J.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Simpsons one day in court. By your decision, he controlled
his very life in your hands. Treated carefully, treated fairly,
Be fair. Don't be part of this continuing cover up.
Do the right thing, remembering that if it doesn't fit,
(29:24):
you must acquit.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
In the matter of the people of the State of
California versus Orenthal James Simpson, Case number b A zero
ninety seven two one one, will the jury and the
ambulved and title action find the defendant or Orenthal James Simpson,
not guilty of a crime of murder in violation of
penal cult section one eighty seven A a felony upon
Nicole Brown Simpson.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
That's for our friends at COURTI the FYI. They already
knew what the verdict was because the jurors had been
told to gather up their belongings and leave. Long story
short that was no surprise. But I guarantee you, Chris Melcher,
never ever, should a defendant be allowed to perform an
(30:09):
experiment in front of the jury that has not been
tried before. Why would the state hand over the evidence
and have a demonstration. Why would they allow that to happen?
And I guarantee you, Melcher, if I had been in
that courtroom, I think I could have made that glove
fit on Simpson's Virginia ham of a hand. The thing
(30:33):
was drenched in blood and dried out. This was a moment,
a turning, a pivotal moment, and I got a hand
it to Cochrane.
Speaker 15 (30:42):
It worked.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
This is from our friends at CNN. It worked, Melcher, Well.
Speaker 11 (30:47):
It absolutely did, Nancy, And that was just a huge
tactical error by the prosecutor and by the trial judge,
because you know, this trial is a search for the truth,
and this courtroom experiment was designed to yield this result
where the glove doesn't fit because he's not making it fit.
(31:07):
He's also wearing a surgical glove underneath it. And then
it gives us great line for Johnny Cochran to say,
if he doesn't fit, you must acquit, so that was
a pivotal moment in the case for the prosecution to
lose it Man big time.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
But just one year later, a very different scenario.
Speaker 7 (31:30):
One year after a civil trial begins, the families of
Nicole and Ron sue Simpson for wrongful deaths. The civil
trial lasts five months, twelve person jury finding OJ Simpson
responsible for the murders and awards eight point five million
dollars to Ron Goldman's parents and determined Simpson should pay
twenty five million impunitive damages to both victims families.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Crime stores With Nancy Gray, can we talk about Simpson's
failed polygraph the polygraph that was admitted at the civil trial.
Speaker 15 (32:10):
You know, it's amazing, Nancy, how at a civil trial
you have a different a different level of what can
be used and what cannot be used in that actual trial.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
So o J.
Speaker 15 (32:21):
Simpson's polygraph test, which of course never would be in
a criminal trial. It gets led into the civil trial
and OJ Simpson flat out plunks the test, and you know,
it becomes a big deal because it said he deitely.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Wait a minute, stop stop stop, Dave Matt, did you
say he flunks? That would bring to mind a zero
at worst Dave mac you are certainly airbrushing the truth.
You're putting perfume on the pig. He didn't make a zero,
He made a negative twenty four. Please, you're the investigative reporter.
(33:01):
Why am I feeding you the facts? A negative twenty four?
That's how badly he lied.
Speaker 15 (33:07):
It was considered definitively deceptive, and it was a secret
lie detector test that he took two days after the
murders took place. As you mentioned, on a scale where
a minus six score indicates border line deception, his was
way beyond that and intodefinite deception. And his answers to
(33:29):
questions surrounding the killings of Nicole and Rod.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Chris Melcher civil and criminal celebrity lawyer. Of course, unless
both parties stipulate to a polygraph ahead of time before
the polly is taken, pollies are not allowed. Lie detectors
are not allowed in criminal trials for the most part,
across our country. Civil cases are a far different matter. Now,
(33:54):
did you hear what Dave Max said. He mentioned a
subtle but important distinction. He stated that this polly on
which Simpson made a negative twenty four worse than a zero.
It was a private polygraph. What does that mean? That
(34:15):
means it was a defense polygraph. The state would have
sent him to a state recognized polygrapher, one that they
use all the time. I think you would agree with that.
So this is a private polygraph. And even with the
defense making up the questions and administering softball questions to Simpson,
(34:37):
he failed. He did worse than failing. He went into
negative double digits. That's how badly he lied. And you know,
I know, Johnny Cochrane, God rest his soul. He had
Simpson ready, the defense had him ready to take that
polly and he still failed. That's like knowing the questions
(34:59):
on the tap Melcher and still failing.
Speaker 11 (35:03):
That's right, I mean, because he was guilty. And also
I'm just really surprised that they even allowed him or
even thought about taking a polygraph test because they didn't
bear any burden at the criminal trial and to expose
him to any statements or any testing. I'm just again
really surprised that any attorney would think that he would
(35:26):
pass this thing. But obviously he didn't. And the civil
jury got it right, the criminal jury got it wrong.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Hey, you know what, Dave Mack, I'm thinking about it,
and Cochrane didn't join the defense team until later. So
I guarantee you if Cochran had been there at that moment,
there is no way in h L he would have
let Simpson take a polly. Now, granted, under Brady the Maryland,
let's put it in a nutshell, Melcher Brady the Maryland,
(35:57):
the state must hand over for all exculpatory evidence to
the defense. A Brady violation is when the state fails
to do that for whatever reason. However, if the defense
has something damning against their own client, they do not
have to hand it over to the state.
Speaker 11 (36:15):
Well, that's right. And because the criminal defendant OJ in
this case bears no burden, he has a right to
remain silent. He doesn't have to produce evidence against himself
unless it's physical evidence of a crime that's in his possession.
So they can do these tests like a polygraph test,
just to see internally like how he might fare. But
(36:35):
it's the prosecution that has the burden to turn over
exculpatory or evidence that potentially could lead to him being
not guilty, because that's just fair. Otherwise we could end
up convicting someone who's factually innocent.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
And I tell you what I think happened, Chris. I
think that for the civil trial, the plaintiffs, who would
be the Goldmans in the Browns, you know, filed their
motion for discovery and they got the results of the
polly that he failed. That's how they got it because
this was a defense polly. It was not a plaintiff's
(37:13):
or a state polly. So they had to get it
through discovery or they found out about it and subpoenaed it.
But however they got it, they got it, and that
had a lot to do with the civil verdict which
we're talking about today because tonight, while O. J. Simpson
is having supper with Satan and buil Zebub, you know,
(37:34):
he is pod technical legal term that his estate is
paying out fifty eight million dollars when he swore he swore,
dare I say on the Bible he would never pay
the victim's family, never regarding the polly. That's not all,
Dave Mac. Do you remember the quote, his words, not mine,
(37:57):
Dave Mac. The ugly ass bread molly shoes that were
believed to have been worn to night of the murders,
based on a distinctive shoe pattern found in blood. Remember
the brunomalis he swore he didn't own. Remember that what happened,
Dave Nancy.
Speaker 15 (38:16):
These are size twelve Bruno Molly's shoes. They're actually the
Lorenzo model shoe that was found in the blood at
the crime scene. OJ tore up and down under oath.
Speaker 14 (38:28):
He didn't own them.
Speaker 15 (38:29):
I don't have those shoes. I don't know what you're
talking about. However, during the trial civil trial, there's photographs
of Simpson wearing the same type of Bruno Molly's shoes
that was found the footprint of in the blood. Now
here's the key on the Bruno Molly's. They're a rare shoe.
There were only two hundred and ninety nine pairs of
(38:52):
size twelve Bruno Molly's even sold in the United States
at the time, and him claiming that these are ugly
ass shoes, doesn't own them and wouldn't wear them. And
then they bought the pictures up there and it actually
showed him on the sidelines of a Buffalo Bills game
where he's standing out there as a celebrity, and there
(39:13):
he is wearing the Bruno molly shoes that he swears
he doesn't own.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
And doesn't wear like every good lawyer, Attorney Petricelli, if
you remember that name, Chris Melcher laid a trap and
Simpson walked right into it. He asked again under oath
about the Bruno Molly shoes, and of course Simpson lied.
(39:38):
Then he produced a photo I believe it came from
the Inquirer magazine. That photoed Simpson walking along the sidelines,
hands in his pockets, happy as anything, wearing the shoes.
And they are Italian luxury footwear. Who could afford those?
Oj Simpson? And there he was busted. The civil jury
(40:00):
was sitting there listening to this and fell out.
Speaker 11 (40:04):
There was so much evidence pointing towards his guilt that
being one of them. What are the chances that there
is some homicidal person here in the West side of
Los Angeles is wearing these expensive Italian loafers and then
connecting it the way that it happened here in the
civil case, again, we're seeing different evidence, a different jury,
(40:28):
a different standard of proof, but this civil jury understanding it,
and the criminal jury and again we were all there,
we saw this outcome, and it's just so unbelievable that
the criminal jury just was led astray and thinking that
he was not guilty A photo.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Of Simpson in the murder shoes. Now, what I don't understand, Chris,
is why that was not introduced at the criminal trial.
Speaker 11 (41:01):
Yeah, I'm assuming that that the prosecution did not have
the evidence of the photographs showing.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
I don't know.
Speaker 11 (41:11):
And we also have to remember that thirty years ago
is a lot different than today. If they were a
prosecution happening today, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence
on social media, and we have what citizen journalists or
people who are concerned your listeners would be scouring somebody
(41:34):
Ojay's social media page if this case was happening right
now and finding that evidence and sending it to detectives
or the prosecution team. And this is an extension, a
community extension of the prosecution by getting that evidence and
showing it. But thirty years ago, we didn't have that money.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
I'm sure they family of the murder victims appreciate it,
even though it's decades late, and his cold comfort in
exchange for a lifetime without Ron and Nicole, we remember
an American hero, Officer Mark Brock Vivian, PD, Louisiana, twenty five,
(42:15):
shot in the line of duty, leaving behind a grieving
fiancee American hero officer Mark Brock. Nancy Grace signing off
Goodbye SCAT
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. O. J. Simpson spinning in
hell tonight, forced to pay fifty eight million dollars to
his murder victims. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Here.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Can you send some one to my house or my
ex husband or my husband. He's broke into my house
and he's ranting and raving. Now he's just walked out
the front yard.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
And know that he's crazy.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
You know, just looking at him makes me sick. The
one thing that makes me feel a little bit better
is I know he is spinning out right now and
hell with Satan, having to be forced to pay out
fifty eight million dollars to his murder victims' families, This
after he stonewalled over thirty years, engaging in all sorts
(01:01):
of nefarious activity to avoid paying the families of the
two people. He don't look at me and smile. Take
that down. I don't even want to see that. He
tried every move he could to avoid paying them, and
he swore he would never pay them. This as he
(01:22):
lived the high life. A mansion in Florida, another home,
I guess, a vacation home, playing golf on beautiful golf
courses every day, being guests and expensive restaurants hotels all
across the world. Let's see a shot from our friends
at TMZ of Orenthal James Simpson partying a hearty this
(01:46):
as he knows. Oh yeah, there you go. He would
find one Nicole Brown look alike after the next. We've
got clips of him partying all over the world, clips
out the Yunion. Why didn't he have a job to
pay off his debts? Again, that's from our buddy Harvey
Levin over at t m Z. Let's get down right
(02:11):
to it. This is where it all starts.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Listen, can you send someone to my house? What's the problem?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
My ex husband or my husband just broke into my
house and he's ranting and raving. Now he's just walked
down the front yard and no, but he's crazy. What
what's you wearing right now? Pants and a shirt?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Okay, I've heard so many nihl on one calls from
Nicole Brown. Some of them have him beating the door down,
screaming at her, trying to just get through a lot
door so he could attack her. And let's take a lesson.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Someone over here now, three two five, Bretton agree he
was back?
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Please? Okay? What does he look?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Okay, gentleman, I think you know his record?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Be over here? Okay, what is he doing there? He's
throw him over? Wait a minute, what kind of cornby?
Speaker 3 (03:14):
He's in a white Bronco broke for that story.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
I'll wait a minute.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
What's your name?
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Okay? Is he the sports capter or whatever? Yeah? Okay,
what did you? Just wait a minute? What is he?
Jo Brettan?
Speaker 5 (03:45):
He's Joe yelling at you?
Speaker 4 (03:54):
You damn Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
To John Bueller joining us former detective adestopd. You know
him well. He is one of the elite detectives that
put Scott Peterson behind bars. Peterson behind bars tonight, having
a glass of Pruno and plotting his next appeal. Do
you hear Simpson in the background screaming and beating on
(04:19):
the door? Do you hear that? I hear it.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (04:25):
And this falls into the tail end of the domestic
violence cycle that people go through, whether they're famous or
not famous, And of course in this one there was
a lot of fame involved in it. But if you
back up the clock and you take a look at
the relationship between Nicole and Oj, he even started pushing
her a little bit when they were dating, when she
was eighteen and he was thirty. There would be little
things that he would do that she apparently didn't think
(04:47):
much of, and she let it go. And this is
the problem that we run into with a charming person.
The devil walks amongst us, usually disguised in a pretty
good look and frame, but they push every time, and
they get away with it. They'll push a little bit further,
and eventually it ends up like this, And it's not
the only one. We've had many of them.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
From the beginning of that evening, before Nicole and Ron
were slaughtered in the front yard, Simpson was angry. Now
you hear my old co anchor Johnny Cochrane trying to
smooth it all over in front of the jury.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Listen, is missus Simpson kissing Denise Brown kiss mister Nitha
Brown is mister Lewis Brown was talking to a friend
that's his son Justin let me kisses.
Speaker 7 (05:43):
After Sydney's dance recital, Nicole, the children, and her family
leave Simpson behind at the school and go to dinner
with friends at Metzaluna and Brentwood. Nichole's mother accidentally leaves
her glasses behind. And Ron Goldman, a friend of Nicole
who works at the restaurant, volunteers to drop the glasses
off at Nichole's house. Leaves metz Lena at nine forty
five pm.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Not closing arguments from our friends at Court TV So
to You, Alexis Tereschuk joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter.
Alexis he was already stewing because he did not get
invited to the family dinner after Sydney's recital. That started
the whole thing.
Speaker 8 (06:24):
That was right they he wanted to go to dinner
with them. Nicole at this point was done with him.
She had been calling nine to one one over ten times.
She keeps calling. She keeps saying, you've got to come
and help me. This man is going to kill me.
He's here. He's breaking down the door. He's hitting me.
You've been here in the In one of the calls,
she's screaming. You can actually hear him hitting her. So
he she says, no, you're not coming to dinner. I'm
(06:46):
going with my friends and my family. She goes to dinner.
Two hours later, Nicole Brown is dead.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Shannon Henry joining US president founder SASS Surviving Assault Standing Strong, Shannon,
I misspoke. I said this is what started it. But
in domestic abuse, nothing that the woman, typically a woman does,
(07:14):
is the reason for the abuse. Him not getting invited
to dinner that night after the recital was an excuse
because the beatings, the torture, the verbal abuse, the beatings
to near death actually are not triggered because he didn't
(07:34):
get invited to go out with his mother in law.
He wanted to beat her, he wanted to kill her.
It has nothing to do with the family get together.
Speaker 9 (07:46):
It has nothing to do with the family get together,
and it has everything to do with the fact that
this man was in control of her. We have to
start thinking of these victims as people that are inside
of cages. Can't see the bars from the outside, but
the bars are very much controlled. They are control over finances, children,
(08:08):
your every move, your mind, your body. They're stalking, they're intimidating,
and any opportunity to be violent and execute more power
and control over the victim is exactly what they'll do,
and this was a perfect opportunity for him.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
The evening progresses.
Speaker 10 (08:24):
Not invited to family dinner at Mezzaluna, Simpson grabs McDonald's
with his house guest, Kaylin Cato. The pair returned to
Simpson's home around nine forty pm. Around ten forty pm,
Kaylin here's several thumps outside his room and goes to investigate,
but gets distracted by the limo waiting outside. Simpsons gate
hired to take him to the airport.
Speaker 7 (08:46):
A neighbor sees Nicoll's white Akita Cato wandering the neighborhood alone, barking, agitated,
and on closer inspection they notice he has bloody pause.
The neighbor follows Cato to investigate, discovering Nicole and Ron's bodies.
At twelve ten as joining.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
US high profile defense attorney celebrity lawyer Chris Melcher. He
is a partner at Wallzer, Metcher and Yode. Chris, thank
you for being with us. You know I've started timelines,
criminal timelines and a lot of odd ways. It can
be from a photograph. It can be from a nav
system when a car is turned off and we know
(09:22):
that moment. It can be from a watch that's broken
at the time of a murder or attack. There are
many ways to start a criminal time line. This timeline
was actually started with the dog out willing, and the
witness at trial referred to the dog as emitting a
(09:44):
woful cry unlike anything the neighbor had heard before, a
plaintive cry.
Speaker 11 (09:51):
Yeah, I mean that really speaks to the horrific nature
of that crime scene, but also Nicole's nature and having
this pet that of loved her and was experiencing this
crime scene and what happened to Nicole and really calling
for help. So there's a lot of richness there in
(10:11):
the prosecution, you know, kind of relating that story in
the timeline, and it is confounding, you know, to think
that after all of this evidence, these nine to one
to one tapes, that he was acquitted in the criminal trial.
It's just absolutely amazing looking back at this from so
many years.
Speaker 10 (10:30):
Detectives Furman and Fanatter go to simpsons nearby home to
notify him of his wife's death. Furman sees what appears
to be bloodstains on Simpson's Ford Bronco and decides to
jump the fence to gain access to Simpson's property. Fanat
Or declares Simpson's home a crime scene and goes to
secure a search warrant for the house.
Speaker 7 (10:48):
Around seven am, Simpson leaves home at eleven ten pm
to catch an eleven forty five flight to Chicago, lands
by thirty am, checking into the O'Hare Plaza hotel at
six fifteen seven am. Detectives informed Simpson of the murders
over the phone and ask him to return to La
Simpson flies back June thirteenth and is handcuffed on arrival.
Simson his question for hours and investigators photograph a cut
(11:11):
on his finger.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
You know, it's amazing to me, John Bueller, that Furman,
if this is part of some conspiracy to convict a
beloved sports legend. Furman sees at the beginning bloodstains on
Simpson's ford bronco at the very beginning, there's not time
(11:35):
to create a conspiracy of any sort, well not.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
Even remotely, because Simpson, or correction Furman, he didn't even
work at Downtown at Robbery Homicide Division. He was a
divisional detective in that area, so he didn't even really
know laying in vent at it very much at the time.
But also his hopping the fence, you can take a
look at that, his exigen circumstances, he might have thought
that OJ could also be a victim. Nothing really wrong
(11:59):
with what he did. There when you take a look
at the whole case and you and you go to
the conclusion of it, excluding the jury's verdict, there's no
exculpatory evidence in this case whatsoever. And when you have
a premeditated murder that's carried out, it's going to be
rare that you'll have an eyewitness or you'll have a videotape.
But when when it comes to this case, there's nobody
(12:19):
else that they could ever determined would have any animosity
towards Uh that either Nicole or mister Goldman, because there
was just nothing there. Everything, every arrow and dagger of
circumstantial evidence pointed right back to Oj.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
I'm trying to figure out how OJ Simpson, for all
these decades managed to avoid paying the Goldmans and the
Browns any money on the multi million dollar civil verdict
against him. Let's forge forward.
Speaker 12 (12:50):
Listen reporting, I'm coming up to five three weeks.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Okay, right now, we all we all okay, but you
gotta telegraph he's back off, He's still alive. He's got
to go through it. Okay, Hold on a minute, my god,
let me get okay, hold on the moment. There is
everything else, Okay, everything right now, go to everything to
go all about you want to with mob with Doug. Okay,
(13:26):
so that's all. That's all we have got to go
to what's your name? You know I am somebody? All right, sir?
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Hold on this morning, I mean, let's get right down
to it. He wants to go to his mother's house. Uh.
Doctor Cheryl Eric joining us clinical forensic psychologists specializing in
cases just like this. Every descendant I have ever had,
without fail, the vast majority, when they skip bond, they
(13:58):
run home to mommy and hide under the batter in
the closet, never fails. Where do you go when you're
in trouble? To mommy? And here you have a c
callings his wingman telling the police to back off and
let Simpson go home to mommy. Really, and he's holding
himself hostage.
Speaker 13 (14:20):
Yes, and we also see that this is another example
of a defendant making demands while he's being arrested. And
we have seen this over and over again. Power and control.
He's going to call the shots, he's going to say
what's going to happen next? And calling was helping him.
I mean we remember well, this low speed chase, it
(14:43):
went on and on and on and you know, there
was a lot of special treatment for this man. There
was a lot of privilege for this man, and you
know it. These events were so devastating for the Browns
and Goldman family. They've been put through such hell all
(15:03):
of these years and it is really something to see
this finally come to a head and to see some
sort of retribution from Katie.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Let me understand something, John Biel or I have never
seen someone hold themselves hostage and the police actually go
along with it. And this is during the low speed
chase with people hanging off bridges with signs that go
go jeus free OJ blah blah blah. What was that
and why did the police allow it?
Speaker 6 (15:35):
Well, you got to remember there was a pretty big
microscope on LAPD at the time. We've just come out
of Rodney King a few years earlier than that, and
their actions are going to be scrutinized if OJ happened
to commit suicide because they didn't do everything that they
possibly could to keep that from happening. The whole world
is going to line up against them. So it's one
(15:55):
of those things where he got special treatment throughout the
time that he was dealt with because of his fame,
because of the football link, and because he is very charming,
just like so many of these guys are. And when
it comes to this, they were kind of put in
a bad position because no matter what the dispatch complaint
taker did, whatever the dispatchers did, La County Sheriff's Department,
(16:19):
and you throw in CHP in there along with LAPD,
anything they did that would push OJ to go over
the edge would be put right back on top of
them a big time. But also, if you really look
at it, what guy who didn't kill his wife is
going to be doing these kinds of antics. So all
of the things that he did after the killing just
line up with the fact that he did the killings.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
In the last days, OJ Simpson absolutely spinning in hell
as his state forced to pay nearly sixty million dollars
on a civil verdic that happened about thirty years ago
that through all of his conniding and scheming he managed
(17:01):
to avoid his entire life.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Are reporting I have OJ in the car, but you
gotta telegraph he's still alive. You've got to go through there. Hey,
hold on them allent.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Finally, after stonewalling for decades, Simpson's estate forced to pay
the families revenge revenge for his murder victims straight out
to Alexis Tereschuk, Crime Stori's investigative reporter, what happened.
Speaker 8 (17:38):
After the civil trial? O. J. Simpson was ordered to
pay thirty three million dollars to Fred Goldman. He spent
over three decades not paying it.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
O J.
Speaker 8 (17:47):
Simpson dies and finally Malcolm Laverne, his executor of his estate,
said we are going to pay it. The Goldman family
submitted an amount. They submitted one hundred million dollars to
the judge. The judge said, I think this isn't maliciously,
but I don't think these are the right numbers. And
the judge has ordered him to pay fifty seven million
(18:07):
dollars to the Goldman family.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Well, I believe that the Gulman family was including the
interest on what Simpson didn't pay for all those years. Listen.
Speaker 14 (18:18):
The judgment for both families was thirty three and a
half million dollars split. Has he willingly paid anything?
Speaker 13 (18:28):
No.
Speaker 7 (18:29):
Before his death, Simpson paid just one hundred and thirty
three thousand dollars on the thirty three point five million
he owed the families of Ron and Nicole, while Simpson
was forced to auction his Heisman trophy for about two
hundred and fifty thousand dollars and turn over the rights
to video game royalties and the unpublished book If I
Did It. The former Hall of Famer skirted payments by
(18:49):
moving out to Nevada and Florida, where state law prevented
the seizure of his NFL pension and residence.
Speaker 14 (18:55):
Is he has had his life you over all these years,
if he's had opportunities to do things Ron didn't.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
From our friends at ABC, and there were reports Alexis
Tereschuk that Ron Golman's father was so incensed over what
Simpson was doing that he tried to get payment from Simpson.
Because Simpson had a whole ring of cash only businesses,
(19:31):
so there was no record of him making money, he
was making money hand over fist that Ron's dad, we
were told, showed up at a couple of these signing
events where Simpson would only sign photos for stacks of money.
He would not sign anything related to the murders or
(19:53):
his civil conviction, none of that. He would sign things
basically anything but that for cash. He would charge people
to go play golf with them. He would charge people
money to have lunch with him or to have dinner
with him. They were all paid events and it had
(20:13):
to be in cash. He could make fifteen thousand dollars
in a day, and apparently, as the reports go, Goldman
tried to go and collect the cash and it was
given like a bag of pennies and laughed out this
after Ron was butcher crime stories with Nancy Grace. So
(20:46):
let's start at the beginning. How did let's talk about
the cash only ring of businesses Simpson ran? What happened?
Speaker 8 (20:58):
Simpson figured out very early on that if he didn't
have a record of any money, then he wouldn't have
to pay it because Fred Goldman was relentless in getting
justice for his son. So Simpson would have people organize
a signing in a hotel room and a private club
and a private place, and he would sign autographs. He'd
sign pictures from his football days, from his broadcasting days,
(21:21):
and people would have to pay cash, and they would
literally give him stacks of cash. This doesn't like one
hundred dollars, it was thousands of dollars. He would get
that first signings if he played golf. You see, he
played golf a lot in the Vadi. He was constantly
on the golf course. He at one point said he
was searching for the killers, and the joke was on
the golf course. Ojay No, So the people that played
(21:44):
with him, they would have to pay him cash as well.
It was never just let's hang out with Oja as
a fun time. It was constantly running this cash ring
to keep him in a lifestyle that he enjoyed and
to make sure that Fred Goldman could never take it.
And if he would appear on podcasts, they would pay
him cash. Any appearance that oj made, any luncheon that
he did, anything with what you would think were friends
(22:07):
was just a business transaction, totally in cash in order
to wort the settlement that the court ordered him to pay.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Chris Milcher joining US high profile celebrity lawyer and partner
at a very prestigious law firm. Chris, how did he
get away with that? I mean, we're thousands of miles
away from where this was happening, but we all know
it was happening, even the gold Ones. It was happening
cash only, to the tune of fifteen twenty thousand dollars
(22:36):
a day.
Speaker 11 (22:37):
Well, Nancy. This is the problem in court. When you
get a judgment, it's a piece of paper and then
it's up to you to collect it. And Fred Goldman
did pursue OJ and made him kind of live in
this underground economy where he was getting cash and it
just was very difficult to collect anything. But he was
under a microscope. The NFL pensions, though, are protected under
(23:00):
federal law called Arissa.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Well, Chris, wouldn't the IRS be interested in a cash
only ring of businesses? This goes from memorabilia to launches
and dinners, to speaking events to podcasts. This guy's making
hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Nobody can take
his mansions, So wouldn't the IRS be three inches up
(23:24):
his tailpipe on this?
Speaker 11 (23:27):
Well, that's absolutely right. He was not only failing to
pay the judgment, but he's also failing to pay taxes.
And we're seeing that in the probate case that's being
administered here after his death, that the IRS and the
California Franchise Tax Board are creditors of OJ Simpsons. So
they're saying they want to get paid and because for
(23:49):
these taxes on undeclared income, and it.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Wasn't just the cash for golf, Alexis Tereschuk. He had
other schemes to avoid paying the rounds and the Goldmans
a lot of schemes and he got away with it
and everything else his whole life until now, what about
his mansion in Florida and a second home in Nevada.
Speaker 8 (24:13):
Seriously, so Ojsonson, after Nicole and Ron were killed, had
got a home in Florida. Florida and Nevada both have
laws that you cannot take the home away from somebody
in order to pay for civil trials, punishments and things
like that. It's a homestead law. And he was very
smart about this. He did it specifically in Florida and Nevada,
(24:36):
knowing that neither of these two states would allow the
Goldmans to take the money from him. So that's what
he did. He planned ahead, and he also lived off.
He has a SAG pension the Screen Actors Guild because
he was in a lot of movies after his football career,
and he has a pension from the NFL. Neither of
those pensions can be touched for payments for trials and
(24:57):
verdicts and things like that. He cannot be to pay
that out is his money, no matter what Alexis.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Have you seen his Florida home. I'm looking at it
right now. It's beautifully manicured, palm trees everywhere and has
a private basketball court and has a huge pool with
a palm tree overlooking it. It's high tech kitchen fireplaces
all around the home. It's really expensive. How come he
didn't have to sell that Chris Melcher and pay the
(25:26):
murder victims' families.
Speaker 11 (25:28):
So unfortunately, there are protections in Florida for a home
and it's called the Homestead Act, and oj was aware
of this. That's why, undoubtedly he purchased this expensive home there,
because the Goldmans could not use that home as a
source of collecting. It's just protected under law.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
You're seeing in the background there is Simpson, we believe,
at his pool at his home and Emma Wright. Is
there a Nevada home? Well, Alexis Tereschuk.
Speaker 8 (26:02):
There is a home in Nevada. You know, when he
got out of prison, he was actually struggling to find
a place to live. No state wanted to take him.
He was allowed to stay in Nevada and he bought
a home in a private gated community, very expensive, very
fancy as well, and Nevada has the same law as Florida,
and so the Goldmans could not touch this home either.
(26:23):
He lived there, he did his daily He got a
Twitter account and he would post daily videos from his
yard from his home, talked about his lifestyle with his
fantasy football picks, and talked about golf.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
There.
Speaker 8 (26:35):
You see, this is the Nevada home, and that's where
he spent the last of his years.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
I'm looking at his Nevada home right now. It is
directly on a golf course. Simpson's living in a massive home,
a Vegas home on a golf course. It's palatial, five
thousand square foot and a private Vegas gated community right
next to golf course. Now in one of the homes
(27:03):
where he was living, it was a home of a
longtime friend. Five bedrooms, five and a half bathpool, hot tub,
putting grain, twenty minutes from the Vegas Strip. It goes
on and on. What I don't understand to you, John Buehler,
as how a double killer can live like this when
(27:24):
he should be behind bars and never paid the victims.
Speaker 6 (27:29):
Well, pretty obvious flaw in the system when it comes
to stuff like that. I understand the laws set up
to protect people's property when they're living there the rest
of their life. But at the same time, it would
seem that something should be changed on that where he
should be forced to give up one of those two
homes to the victims' families. On this, I mean, I
live in one house. I wouldn't want to. But he's
(27:51):
a pretty shrewd character when he's coming up with this stuff.
I'm sure he had a team of pretty good lawyers
that were advising him on how to get away with
this stuff. Not only to get away with the murder,
but he got away with not paying for many, many years.
Speaker 7 (28:02):
More than thirty one years after Simpson is found liable
for the deaths of Nicolo and Ron, Simpson's estate finally
agrees to pay damages to Goldman's family. Simpson's estate has
agreed to pay Ron's father Fred fifty eight million dollars
plus interest. It's unclear what spurred the change of heart.
Executor Malcolm Laverne previously swearing to never pay Goldman a dollar.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
Okay, right now, all about you want the dollars, okay,
so that's all ours all. We have got a governor
the cpture find anything for you know who I am? God,
all right, you sure hold on this Lord.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
In the last days an incredible turn of events. Simpson
must be spinning out as his estate forced to pay
fifty eight million dollars to his murder victim's family. Now
he's skated at the criminal trial. As we all recall,
I remember this, this is O. J.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Simpsons one day in court. By your decision, he controlled
his very life in your hands. Treated carefully, treated fairly,
Be fair. Don't be part of this continuing cover up.
Do the right thing, remembering that if it doesn't fit,
(29:24):
you must acquit.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
In the matter of the people of the State of
California versus Orenthal James Simpson, Case number b A zero
ninety seven two one one, will the jury and the
ambulved and title action find the defendant or Orenthal James Simpson,
not guilty of a crime of murder in violation of
penal cult section one eighty seven A a felony upon
Nicole Brown Simpson.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
That's for our friends at COURTI the FYI. They already
knew what the verdict was because the jurors had been
told to gather up their belongings and leave. Long story
short that was no surprise. But I guarantee you, Chris Melcher,
never ever, should a defendant be allowed to perform an
(30:09):
experiment in front of the jury that has not been
tried before. Why would the state hand over the evidence
and have a demonstration. Why would they allow that to happen?
And I guarantee you, Melcher, if I had been in
that courtroom, I think I could have made that glove
fit on Simpson's Virginia ham of a hand. The thing
(30:33):
was drenched in blood and dried out. This was a moment,
a turning, a pivotal moment, and I got a hand
it to Cochrane.
Speaker 15 (30:42):
It worked.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
This is from our friends at CNN. It worked, Melcher, Well.
Speaker 11 (30:47):
It absolutely did, Nancy, And that was just a huge
tactical error by the prosecutor and by the trial judge,
because you know, this trial is a search for the truth,
and this courtroom experiment was designed to yield this result
where the glove doesn't fit because he's not making it fit.
(31:07):
He's also wearing a surgical glove underneath it. And then
it gives us great line for Johnny Cochran to say,
if he doesn't fit, you must acquit, so that was
a pivotal moment in the case for the prosecution to
lose it Man big time.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
But just one year later, a very different scenario.
Speaker 7 (31:30):
One year after a civil trial begins, the families of
Nicole and Ron sue Simpson for wrongful deaths. The civil
trial lasts five months, twelve person jury finding OJ Simpson
responsible for the murders and awards eight point five million
dollars to Ron Goldman's parents and determined Simpson should pay
twenty five million impunitive damages to both victims families.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Crime stores With Nancy Gray, can we talk about Simpson's
failed polygraph the polygraph that was admitted at the civil trial.
Speaker 15 (32:10):
You know, it's amazing, Nancy, how at a civil trial
you have a different a different level of what can
be used and what cannot be used in that actual trial.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
So o J.
Speaker 15 (32:21):
Simpson's polygraph test, which of course never would be in
a criminal trial. It gets led into the civil trial
and OJ Simpson flat out plunks the test, and you know,
it becomes a big deal because it said he deitely.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Wait a minute, stop stop stop, Dave Matt, did you
say he flunks? That would bring to mind a zero
at worst Dave mac you are certainly airbrushing the truth.
You're putting perfume on the pig. He didn't make a zero,
He made a negative twenty four. Please, you're the investigative reporter.
(33:01):
Why am I feeding you the facts? A negative twenty four?
That's how badly he lied.
Speaker 15 (33:07):
It was considered definitively deceptive, and it was a secret
lie detector test that he took two days after the
murders took place. As you mentioned, on a scale where
a minus six score indicates border line deception, his was
way beyond that and intodefinite deception. And his answers to
(33:29):
questions surrounding the killings of Nicole and Rod.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Chris Melcher civil and criminal celebrity lawyer. Of course, unless
both parties stipulate to a polygraph ahead of time before
the polly is taken, pollies are not allowed. Lie detectors
are not allowed in criminal trials for the most part,
across our country. Civil cases are a far different matter. Now,
(33:54):
did you hear what Dave Max said. He mentioned a
subtle but important distinction. He stated that this polly on
which Simpson made a negative twenty four worse than a zero.
It was a private polygraph. What does that mean? That
(34:15):
means it was a defense polygraph. The state would have
sent him to a state recognized polygrapher, one that they
use all the time. I think you would agree with that.
So this is a private polygraph. And even with the
defense making up the questions and administering softball questions to Simpson,
(34:37):
he failed. He did worse than failing. He went into
negative double digits. That's how badly he lied. And you know,
I know, Johnny Cochrane, God rest his soul. He had
Simpson ready, the defense had him ready to take that
polly and he still failed. That's like knowing the questions
(34:59):
on the tap Melcher and still failing.
Speaker 11 (35:03):
That's right, I mean, because he was guilty. And also
I'm just really surprised that they even allowed him or
even thought about taking a polygraph test because they didn't
bear any burden at the criminal trial and to expose
him to any statements or any testing. I'm just again
really surprised that any attorney would think that he would
(35:26):
pass this thing. But obviously he didn't. And the civil
jury got it right, the criminal jury got it wrong.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Hey, you know what, Dave Mack, I'm thinking about it,
and Cochrane didn't join the defense team until later. So
I guarantee you if Cochran had been there at that moment,
there is no way in h L he would have
let Simpson take a polly. Now, granted, under Brady the Maryland,
let's put it in a nutshell, Melcher Brady the Maryland,
(35:57):
the state must hand over for all exculpatory evidence to
the defense. A Brady violation is when the state fails
to do that for whatever reason. However, if the defense
has something damning against their own client, they do not
have to hand it over to the state.
Speaker 11 (36:15):
Well, that's right. And because the criminal defendant OJ in
this case bears no burden, he has a right to
remain silent. He doesn't have to produce evidence against himself
unless it's physical evidence of a crime that's in his possession.
So they can do these tests like a polygraph test,
just to see internally like how he might fare. But
(36:35):
it's the prosecution that has the burden to turn over
exculpatory or evidence that potentially could lead to him being
not guilty, because that's just fair. Otherwise we could end
up convicting someone who's factually innocent.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
And I tell you what I think happened, Chris. I
think that for the civil trial, the plaintiffs, who would
be the Goldmans in the Browns, you know, filed their
motion for discovery and they got the results of the
polly that he failed. That's how they got it because
this was a defense polly. It was not a plaintiff's
(37:13):
or a state polly. So they had to get it
through discovery or they found out about it and subpoenaed it.
But however they got it, they got it, and that
had a lot to do with the civil verdict which
we're talking about today because tonight, while O. J. Simpson
is having supper with Satan and buil Zebub, you know,
(37:34):
he is pod technical legal term that his estate is
paying out fifty eight million dollars when he swore he swore,
dare I say on the Bible he would never pay
the victim's family, never regarding the polly. That's not all,
Dave Mac. Do you remember the quote, his words, not mine,
(37:57):
Dave Mac. The ugly ass bread molly shoes that were
believed to have been worn to night of the murders,
based on a distinctive shoe pattern found in blood. Remember
the brunomalis he swore he didn't own. Remember that what happened,
Dave Nancy.
Speaker 15 (38:16):
These are size twelve Bruno Molly's shoes. They're actually the
Lorenzo model shoe that was found in the blood at
the crime scene. OJ tore up and down under oath.
Speaker 14 (38:28):
He didn't own them.
Speaker 15 (38:29):
I don't have those shoes. I don't know what you're
talking about. However, during the trial civil trial, there's photographs
of Simpson wearing the same type of Bruno Molly's shoes
that was found the footprint of in the blood. Now
here's the key on the Bruno Molly's. They're a rare shoe.
There were only two hundred and ninety nine pairs of
(38:52):
size twelve Bruno Molly's even sold in the United States
at the time, and him claiming that these are ugly
ass shoes, doesn't own them and wouldn't wear them. And
then they bought the pictures up there and it actually
showed him on the sidelines of a Buffalo Bills game
where he's standing out there as a celebrity, and there
(39:13):
he is wearing the Bruno molly shoes that he swears
he doesn't own.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
And doesn't wear like every good lawyer, Attorney Petricelli, if
you remember that name, Chris Melcher laid a trap and
Simpson walked right into it. He asked again under oath
about the Bruno Molly shoes, and of course Simpson lied.
(39:38):
Then he produced a photo I believe it came from
the Inquirer magazine. That photoed Simpson walking along the sidelines,
hands in his pockets, happy as anything, wearing the shoes.
And they are Italian luxury footwear. Who could afford those?
Oj Simpson? And there he was busted. The civil jury
(40:00):
was sitting there listening to this and fell out.
Speaker 11 (40:04):
There was so much evidence pointing towards his guilt that
being one of them. What are the chances that there
is some homicidal person here in the West side of
Los Angeles is wearing these expensive Italian loafers and then
connecting it the way that it happened here in the
civil case, again, we're seeing different evidence, a different jury,
(40:28):
a different standard of proof, but this civil jury understanding it,
and the criminal jury and again we were all there,
we saw this outcome, and it's just so unbelievable that
the criminal jury just was led astray and thinking that
he was not guilty A photo.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Of Simpson in the murder shoes. Now, what I don't understand, Chris,
is why that was not introduced at the criminal trial.
Speaker 11 (41:01):
Yeah, I'm assuming that that the prosecution did not have
the evidence of the photographs showing.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
I don't know.
Speaker 11 (41:11):
And we also have to remember that thirty years ago
is a lot different than today. If they were a
prosecution happening today, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence
on social media, and we have what citizen journalists or
people who are concerned your listeners would be scouring somebody
(41:34):
Ojay's social media page if this case was happening right
now and finding that evidence and sending it to detectives
or the prosecution team. And this is an extension, a
community extension of the prosecution by getting that evidence and
showing it. But thirty years ago, we didn't have that money.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
I'm sure they family of the murder victims appreciate it,
even though it's decades late, and his cold comfort in
exchange for a lifetime without Ron and Nicole, we remember
an American hero, Officer Mark Brock Vivian, PD, Louisiana, twenty five,
(42:15):
shot in the line of duty, leaving behind a grieving
fiancee American hero officer Mark Brock. Nancy Grace signing off
Goodbye SCAT
Host
Nancy Grace
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.