June 12, 2017 • 26 mins
A judge is watching hours of video prosecutors say shows how Penn State fraternity members got a 19-year-old recruit heavily intoxicated during a hazing ritual and then ignored him after he suffered a serious fall during a party. Most of the 18 Beta Theta Pi brothers charged in connection to Timothy Piazza’s death are in court Monday. Nancy Grace and Alan Duke discuss the case in this episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
A national fraternity at Penn State University is suspended after
the death of a student. Nineteen year old Timothy Piazza,
a sophomore at Penn State University, partied inside the Beta
Theta Pi fraternity house, left unconscious twelve hours after falling
down a flight of stairs. This is crime Stories with
Nancy Grace. Court documents at Piazza fell head first down
(00:27):
a flight of stairs after he was forced to Ben's drink.
A former member now speaking out, claiming he wanted to
call nine one one and no one would let him.
I was screaming at the time of my lungs. I
was like, Tima right now, Like we should call nine
on one right now. Prosecutors say A brother called nine
one one the next morning, twelve hours after the fall.
Eight two students charged eight with involuntary manslaughter. It seemed
(00:51):
like they just wanted to make sure that they themselves
were safe, rather than Tim truly being saved. Today is
the day showing up at a preliminary hearing in a
Pennsylvania courtroom a group of fraternity brothers. They are charged
with dozens and dozens of counts because a teen boy,
(01:19):
a bright star Timothy Piazza was found dead and cold,
already cold, excuse me, dying and cold, already stiffening up
in the floor of their fraternity house at pen State.
(01:40):
In the courtroom will be seen for the first time
video surveillance from inside the fraternity house. And can you
imagine this boy's parents sitting there watching as they see
the last moments of their son's lie unfold on video
(02:04):
surveillance in the court of law. I'm Nancy Grace. This
is crime stories and this should not be happening. It
went down at Penn State University at yet another drunk
party at the Beta Theta Pie house. This teen boy,
(02:28):
Timothy Pianza, felt was it was the night of um
final pledging and when you commit to a fraternity or sorority,
and part of that was they would quote run the gauntlet,
which means these teen boys. Now remember the legal limit
(02:52):
to drink in Pennsylvania is twenty one, these teen boys
would be coerced to drink at one station to the next,
the next, to the next. Receipts show they charged over
a thousand dollars of malt liquor, hard liquor, beer wine
just for one night. Yeah, vodka and this boy goes
(03:21):
he's an athlete, he's an engineering student, he's he's everything,
he's the apple of his parents eye and he's going
to go to a fraternity. And they probably think, oh good,
he'll have friends at school. We don't have to worry
about him being alone and sad. What they had to
(03:41):
worry about is traumatic brain injury and lacerations to his
abdomen so bad his stomach filled up with blood. And
then he lay there on the floor. People partiers actually
stepped over his body as he lie there in the
(04:04):
fetal position dying. Twelve hours passed before nine one one
was finally called. Twelve hours he could totally have been saved.
And during this time he was punched, slapped, punched in
the admomen, body slammed, had liquid poured over him. It
(04:26):
just goes on and on and then Alan there's the
cover up where when one kid says, guys, we gotta
call nine one one, he was shoved against the wall.
He was told to shut up, that he didn't know anything,
to just leave, and he did. And now we find
out about the cover up. Oh yes, where all the
(04:51):
fraternity brought, not all of them, the ones that were
charged We're on an app called group me g R
O U p m E, where you can speak to
a group, and they're talking about they're being ordered to
get in there, clean up the house, get rid of
all the alcohol, say we just found him and call
(05:12):
nine one one immediately because his health is their words,
not mine, paramount to us. And oh yeah, delete all
the text messages and emails we had, and oh yeah,
let's get in there and delete the surveillance video because
we could get in trouble for this. Those are their words.
(05:33):
We I the president of the fraternity's talking could be
charged for not calling nine one. Yeah, they knew they
were in trouble. They knew it was wrong. They even
talked about possible charges coming up with lies to tell
the cops. Alan, what's going to unfold in that courtroom?
(05:58):
And I'm sure with Tim's parents sitting there listening, Yes,
this is a preliminary hearing for I think about fourteen
of the eighteen defendants, and some of them waved hearing
you right, And you know, it's just the opportunity for
the evidence to be shown to the judge to see
if there's cause for going forward. The big cause they're
(06:19):
gonna have this video, three hours of video. There were
cameras all over the fraternity house. Unfortunately there were not
cameras in that one room. I think it was the
basement where they were running the gauntlet and having allegedly
being forced to um to take these shots over a
very short period of time. But they've got testimony for that.
But it does show around five a m. The camera
(06:42):
captures Piazza falling head first, head first into an iron railing.
You see that, and you can even see on the
video tape the bruising. After around seven am, he apparently
falls down the basement stairs. Well you see all that,
and he died, according to the pathologists, from severe head
(07:06):
trauma and ruptured spleen. And while he was dying, they
just just hid him away, just put him on the
floor or behind behind the bar, and then and then
they brought him out. But they were just ignoring this
coach to what we've talked about so much recently, you know,
the Adrian Jones case, where you see something and you
don't say something. It was only because a less intoxicated
(07:29):
frat brother came in into the party after it was
going and perhaps wasn't as intoxicated and eventually he knew
he was sober enough to know something was really really wrong,
but it just went on way too long, way too long. Yeah,
he could have been saved. He died one day later
in the hospital. And here's the thing. His defense lawyers,
(07:52):
some of the defense lawyers that come out and saying,
but there's no intent, there's no intent to kill anyone.
They must be talking straight out of their rear end
or else they haven't looked it up because they're charged
with involuntary manslaughter, which specifically says no intent to kill
is required. This charge, in voluntary manslaughter are is for
(08:14):
cases where there is no intent to kill. It's when
you're so d a m N, negligent or reckless that
a death occurs. And that's or when you choose you
omit to act. It's specifically address that specifically addresses gross
(08:39):
negligence recklessness. It even says, quote, this is the law
ignoring a known danger that leads to a death. That's
what involuntary manslaughter is. Hello, And you don't have to
be a frat member ever, go to one of these
parties to know how dangerous these are. I mean, it's
(08:59):
not all like the John Belushi Animal House movie where
it just is all fun and games with the drinking.
We know there have been many many deaths over a
hundred and more or more years caused by this gauntlet
that they run pledges through. I gotta tell you some alan.
You know, when I like something, I just kind of
(09:20):
get addicted. That's how I am about the twins. Some
people say, oh, she's a helicopter mom. You know, I
refer to myself as a straight jacket mom, Like, I'll
pick the twins. And Mom, was that you driving by
in the minivan today at recess? I'm like, no, I
think my mom, we saw you? Like, oh, maybe it
was me. I have a blanket that time I saw
(09:40):
that in action? Uh this past weekend? Oh wait, what
tell me? What did you say? Well, when when we
were at crime Con. Uh, you know, you were taking
pictures with fans, you're talking, you're giving your speeches, but
about every two minutes, there was this this turning of
your neck. Where are the twins? Where are the twins?
And then it was like nobody could get between you
(10:02):
point A where you were, in point B where where
you thought they were. You were just a beeline. And
then you just grabbed your arms around them, and you
were and you kept them there. I thought that was great. Yes,
And what I'm saying is that's why I don't drink now.
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(12:17):
Thank you for what you are doing in the job market,
and thank you for being our partner. Now, I want
to go back to our story. Alan, I've just seen
so many cases. It really affected me because, you know,
I started prosecuting felonies and I was fairly young in
the grand scheme of things. And I will never forget
(12:39):
this gorgeous stock broker came in and she was in
prison blues. She was shackled hand and foot, which I
thought it was a little too much, but I was watching,
and she took a plea, a guilty plea, and it
was lie. You know, she got She's already been in
(13:02):
jail for like six months waiting for a case to
be resolved, so she got time served. She was addicted
to alcohol, and she had had a crash. Nobody got killed,
but I forgot that, all the facts of it. She
lost her stockbroker's license, she could never practice again. She
her fan, her husband had finally divorced her. She was
(13:24):
on limited visitation with her children. She they managed to
lose their home during all this, couldn't make the payments
because she couldn't work, and here she was in shackles.
I'm like, dear Lord in heaven. And that was just alcohol,
you know what, I don't even know what what about drugs,
(13:44):
That's a whole another candle worms. But I mean when
I see what it's done to other people and they
can't they can't stop. They're addicted. It's an illness. It's
not like they want to be an alcoholic. For Pete's sake,
they can't stop. And this is an even alcoholism we're
talking about. This is alcohol intoxication because and some of
(14:07):
these kids, these are freshmen generally or sophomores, and they
might not have had a drinking history, probably did, but
may not have had much of it. And this is
maybe something they're not even used to, and then they
are encouraged or forced through peer pressure to become intoxicated,
uh in a very deadly way. So this preliminary hearing
(14:28):
is very simple, as Alan correctly stated, all a preliminary
hearing is is you put evidence in front of the
judge and the judge decides whether the case has enough
facts that there is an issue a question of fact
for a jury to decide. That's all it is, and
(14:50):
then he she the judge will bind the case over,
which means sends it, send it to the direct court
to the core excuse me correct core i E. Is
it a felony, then it goes to felony court, it
goes to a grand jury. Is it a misdemeanor, then
it's going to go to misdemeanor court. That's all the
judges doing, not deciding guilt or innocence, but just simply
(15:13):
is there an issue of fact that needs to go
to a jury. But this is this one is going
to be probably particularly complicated. You'll need a big spreadsheet
because there are one thousand charges against eighteen young men
and they range from involuntary manslaughter to hazing which is
against law, to UH forcing somebody to drink, to providing
(15:38):
my a minor with alcohol to aggravated assault. This odyssey
went on for over twelve hours, and the medical examiner
said there is absolutely clear evidence that his death could
have been prevented easily, prevented easily. I mean, this is
(16:02):
what I keep thinking about. I keep thinking about my children,
and you know, Alan, I try, God help me to
do it all. Two help them make good grades, to
get them to church when I don't feel like it,
to make them go to Sunday school, to make them
(16:23):
go to piano classes, to try to get out in
the yard and try to teach them how to play basketball.
If you can only imagine that, Okay, try to I
get out in the yard and trying to teach them
how to play soccer. It's it's embarrassing. But they're too
young to know how dumb I look. So I mean,
I'm just trying everything, you know, their little projects. I
(16:44):
help them with their projects, blah blah blah, anything to
help them along their way to succeed, to do better,
you know, to get along in the world where you
have to fit in with your peers, blah blah. And
and to think that one day I would be sitting
(17:04):
I'm just crossing myself. God, please don't let this happen
to me sitting in court watching video surveillance of the
last moments. That is what this family that the dad said,
they treated him like roadkill, just stepping over him. That's
(17:24):
exactly right. That's exactly what it looked like, like like
he wasn't a human, that he was just a an
animal laying on the floor that had been hit by
a car. That they didn't do, you know, they just
keep on going. Just when you said that, it really
hit me. I mean he had blood on his face,
(17:44):
he was lying in the floor, moaning, writhing in pain,
and they did nothing but literally step over him and
then think up ways to conceal the X from police.
What's in our brain that causes us to ignore somebody suffering,
(18:06):
somebody who's being abused. What is in our brain that
causes us to think it's not relevant to me, I
don't have to pick up the phone. He didn't die
from blood alcohol poisoning. He died from severe head trauma
and severe abdominal bleeding. That's what That was the official
cause of death. Although he was four times the legal
(18:28):
limit on us to point three six incredible, really over
it less and that could kill you for that's still
thirty two. Okay, the legal limit is point oh eight,
and he was between two eight and three six point
three six at the time of his death. I mean,
(18:48):
then the screaming match over whether to call nine one one,
and they tell the younger kid to just leave, that
he didn't know anything, just get out, and he does,
you know, he leaves, and then the boy dies Timothy
Piazza and everybody's talking about, Oh, we're gonna have stricter
rules and about hazing and blah blah, you know what
(19:10):
to hey with it, because nothing can bring this boy back.
They've been talking about stricter rules and no hazing as
long as I can remember, for a hundred years. This
has been going on more than a century. And I
gotta tell you something. For two of my four years
in college, I was Greek, I was a d pie,
and I never saw anything like this. I mean, I
(19:33):
went away to college and my friend from Making I
new absolutely I need one person, a boy from my
high school and he was in a boy's dorm across campus,
and I was in a girl's dorm on the other
side of campus. I need nobody. I hooked up with
a friend girl of mine from Making and she was
in a sorority and she said, please come to join
(19:56):
us and meet my friend dead. And for two years
I was part to that until I transferred, and then
I was as many people say, and I am f
and I will not feel what that stands for. But
I was independent and spent all my time working in
the library and getting ready for law school. Um after
Keith's murder. But I never saw anything like this. I
(20:18):
mean when I pledged, they sent me cars with violets, okay,
and I mean that was that was it, and they
were we were would have like surprise pancake breakfasts and
be like whoa, okay, nothing like this. I mean I
don't know where. And then I saw fraternity parties and
(20:39):
this was not going on. Of course I wasn't there
during the pledging. Well, when we were in college, eighteen
was the legal drinking age. I still didn't drink. People
would bring me a beer and I poured in a plant.
Poor plant. I'm sure it's dead now now, Okay, so
what happens now? Let's talk about if people are gonna
plead guilty and roll over on each other, because that's
(21:00):
what I predict that I expect some of that could happen.
I'm thinking, well, I'm already seeing that some of these defendants,
their lawyers are pointing the fingers, saying it wasn't me,
it was him. That's already happening. They're trying to drag
other people in, for example, the advisor to the fraternity.
They're saying, hey, you should have charged him, not me.
You know, he let me get you ready, Alan, before
(21:21):
you blurt this out, Voluntary intoxication is not a defense
to this charge. The law specifically states that, for the
most part, voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is never
a defense unless you're commentos to the point you can't
move and then you're not acting anyway. So, generally speaking,
(21:44):
voluntary use of drugs or alcohol never a defense. So
they're not going to be able to claim I was drunk,
I didn't know what was happening, that ain't working, or
I never handed him a drink. He got his own drink.
That's we've already were already hearing that one. Yeah, probably
probably after he has taken to the hospital. The fraternity
members delete text messages, they try they get in there
(22:07):
and try to erase the surveillance video. People not know
that doesn't work anymore unless they can tell you did it. Hello, Yeah, exactly,
it's digital people. It's on this hard drop. Do you
see Harry Potter? Have you seen all of them and
read all the books? Because I have no. I've not
seen a single moment. It's wrong with you. I don't have.
(22:28):
You are not qualified to be on this podcast. If you,
I'm sure I'll do it. My grandkids are too and
Littlena had her fourth birthday this weekend. Too young, they're
too young for that. My daughter missed that. But let
me tell you why I'm saying this. There's an episode.
Jackie here is in the studa. She's shaking her head.
She knows the deal. Do you remember when Professor Slughorn
(22:50):
had his memory, he altered his memory, and then when
they went back to try to look at what happened,
it didn't make sense. Don't people know if you hamper
with surveillance video, when it is finally viewed, they can
tell you've tampered with it. Okay, it doesn't work. So
they're in there trying to tamper with the surveillance video,
(23:11):
erase it and quote if need be, tell cops we
found him behind a bar the next morning around ten am,
freezing cold. We call nine one one immediately because this
kid's health was paramount, I mean, and he texted that
(23:32):
that that's what they were supposed to say to the police.
That's gonna hurt. Didn't anybody see what Richard happened to
Richard Nixon? The cover ups, the whole thing up. You know,
Rosemary Would's eighteen and a half minute gap in the
tape is no No matter what was said on the
eighteen and a half minutes, it couldn't have been as
damning as the fact that we know there was an
(23:53):
eighteen and a half minute gap that he claimed his
secretary accidentally see. I mean, you know what he could
have said, He could have said, and of course this
is a line. I'm not advocating this. You know what,
some of my supporters were over zealous and they gained
access translation broke into burglarized UH Democratic National Convention headquarters
(24:17):
to snoop E. Steele campaign secrets, and I didn't want that.
See if he had just come out and with something
instead of trying to cover the whole thing up that
how many times have we heard it's the cover up,
The gadget and here is the cover up. Okay, we're
waiting to find out what happens in the Penn State
(24:39):
fraternity manslaughter trial. And yes, I feel sorry for the
guys that are charged because many of them look so young.
But when I look at Timothy Piazza, I know why
Lady Justice wears a blindfold because she makes these decisions
just us must be blind to your appearance, your age,
(25:05):
your background, your race, your sex, your religion or lack thereof.
It doesn't matter. What matters is the truth. And that
is what I want. And you know what else I want? Alan,
I drink No, I have my hot tea with skim
milk right here. I want peace and comfort for Timothy's
(25:30):
parents because I know the pain I'm living with a
life cut short for a over a criminal reason is just.
But I can't imagine losing your child. I don't even
want to put those words out in the universe because
(25:53):
it's so scary to me. But God be with Timothy's
parents and everyone involved in this case. Amen, and I'm
leaving crime stories right there. Goodbye, friend,
A national fraternity at Penn State University is suspended after
the death of a student. Nineteen year old Timothy Piazza,
a sophomore at Penn State University, partied inside the Beta
Theta Pi fraternity house, left unconscious twelve hours after falling
down a flight of stairs. This is crime Stories with
Nancy Grace. Court documents at Piazza fell head first down
(00:27):
a flight of stairs after he was forced to Ben's drink.
A former member now speaking out, claiming he wanted to
call nine one one and no one would let him.
I was screaming at the time of my lungs. I
was like, Tima right now, Like we should call nine
on one right now. Prosecutors say A brother called nine
one one the next morning, twelve hours after the fall.
Eight two students charged eight with involuntary manslaughter. It seemed
(00:51):
like they just wanted to make sure that they themselves
were safe, rather than Tim truly being saved. Today is
the day showing up at a preliminary hearing in a
Pennsylvania courtroom a group of fraternity brothers. They are charged
with dozens and dozens of counts because a teen boy,
(01:19):
a bright star Timothy Piazza was found dead and cold,
already cold, excuse me, dying and cold, already stiffening up
in the floor of their fraternity house at pen State.
(01:40):
In the courtroom will be seen for the first time
video surveillance from inside the fraternity house. And can you
imagine this boy's parents sitting there watching as they see
the last moments of their son's lie unfold on video
(02:04):
surveillance in the court of law. I'm Nancy Grace. This
is crime stories and this should not be happening. It
went down at Penn State University at yet another drunk
party at the Beta Theta Pie house. This teen boy,
(02:28):
Timothy Pianza, felt was it was the night of um
final pledging and when you commit to a fraternity or sorority,
and part of that was they would quote run the gauntlet,
which means these teen boys. Now remember the legal limit
(02:52):
to drink in Pennsylvania is twenty one, these teen boys
would be coerced to drink at one station to the next,
the next, to the next. Receipts show they charged over
a thousand dollars of malt liquor, hard liquor, beer wine
just for one night. Yeah, vodka and this boy goes
(03:21):
he's an athlete, he's an engineering student, he's he's everything,
he's the apple of his parents eye and he's going
to go to a fraternity. And they probably think, oh good,
he'll have friends at school. We don't have to worry
about him being alone and sad. What they had to
(03:41):
worry about is traumatic brain injury and lacerations to his
abdomen so bad his stomach filled up with blood. And
then he lay there on the floor. People partiers actually
stepped over his body as he lie there in the
(04:04):
fetal position dying. Twelve hours passed before nine one one
was finally called. Twelve hours he could totally have been saved.
And during this time he was punched, slapped, punched in
the admomen, body slammed, had liquid poured over him. It
(04:26):
just goes on and on and then Alan there's the
cover up where when one kid says, guys, we gotta
call nine one one, he was shoved against the wall.
He was told to shut up, that he didn't know anything,
to just leave, and he did. And now we find
out about the cover up. Oh yes, where all the
(04:51):
fraternity brought, not all of them, the ones that were
charged We're on an app called group me g R
O U p m E, where you can speak to
a group, and they're talking about they're being ordered to
get in there, clean up the house, get rid of
all the alcohol, say we just found him and call
(05:12):
nine one one immediately because his health is their words,
not mine, paramount to us. And oh yeah, delete all
the text messages and emails we had, and oh yeah,
let's get in there and delete the surveillance video because
we could get in trouble for this. Those are their words.
(05:33):
We I the president of the fraternity's talking could be
charged for not calling nine one. Yeah, they knew they
were in trouble. They knew it was wrong. They even
talked about possible charges coming up with lies to tell
the cops. Alan, what's going to unfold in that courtroom?
(05:58):
And I'm sure with Tim's parents sitting there listening, Yes,
this is a preliminary hearing for I think about fourteen
of the eighteen defendants, and some of them waved hearing
you right, And you know, it's just the opportunity for
the evidence to be shown to the judge to see
if there's cause for going forward. The big cause they're
(06:19):
gonna have this video, three hours of video. There were
cameras all over the fraternity house. Unfortunately there were not
cameras in that one room. I think it was the
basement where they were running the gauntlet and having allegedly
being forced to um to take these shots over a
very short period of time. But they've got testimony for that.
But it does show around five a m. The camera
(06:42):
captures Piazza falling head first, head first into an iron railing.
You see that, and you can even see on the
video tape the bruising. After around seven am, he apparently
falls down the basement stairs. Well you see all that,
and he died, according to the pathologists, from severe head
(07:06):
trauma and ruptured spleen. And while he was dying, they
just just hid him away, just put him on the
floor or behind behind the bar, and then and then
they brought him out. But they were just ignoring this
coach to what we've talked about so much recently, you know,
the Adrian Jones case, where you see something and you
don't say something. It was only because a less intoxicated
(07:29):
frat brother came in into the party after it was
going and perhaps wasn't as intoxicated and eventually he knew
he was sober enough to know something was really really wrong,
but it just went on way too long, way too long. Yeah,
he could have been saved. He died one day later
in the hospital. And here's the thing. His defense lawyers,
(07:52):
some of the defense lawyers that come out and saying,
but there's no intent, there's no intent to kill anyone.
They must be talking straight out of their rear end
or else they haven't looked it up because they're charged
with involuntary manslaughter, which specifically says no intent to kill
is required. This charge, in voluntary manslaughter are is for
(08:14):
cases where there is no intent to kill. It's when
you're so d a m N, negligent or reckless that
a death occurs. And that's or when you choose you
omit to act. It's specifically address that specifically addresses gross
(08:39):
negligence recklessness. It even says, quote, this is the law
ignoring a known danger that leads to a death. That's
what involuntary manslaughter is. Hello, And you don't have to
be a frat member ever, go to one of these
parties to know how dangerous these are. I mean, it's
(08:59):
not all like the John Belushi Animal House movie where
it just is all fun and games with the drinking.
We know there have been many many deaths over a
hundred and more or more years caused by this gauntlet
that they run pledges through. I gotta tell you some alan.
You know, when I like something, I just kind of
(09:20):
get addicted. That's how I am about the twins. Some
people say, oh, she's a helicopter mom. You know, I
refer to myself as a straight jacket mom, Like, I'll
pick the twins. And Mom, was that you driving by
in the minivan today at recess? I'm like, no, I
think my mom, we saw you? Like, oh, maybe it
was me. I have a blanket that time I saw
(09:40):
that in action? Uh this past weekend? Oh wait, what
tell me? What did you say? Well, when when we
were at crime Con. Uh, you know, you were taking
pictures with fans, you're talking, you're giving your speeches, but
about every two minutes, there was this this turning of
your neck. Where are the twins? Where are the twins?
And then it was like nobody could get between you
(10:02):
point A where you were, in point B where where
you thought they were. You were just a beeline. And
then you just grabbed your arms around them, and you
were and you kept them there. I thought that was great. Yes,
And what I'm saying is that's why I don't drink now.
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(12:17):
Thank you for what you are doing in the job market,
and thank you for being our partner. Now, I want
to go back to our story. Alan, I've just seen
so many cases. It really affected me because, you know,
I started prosecuting felonies and I was fairly young in
the grand scheme of things. And I will never forget
(12:39):
this gorgeous stock broker came in and she was in
prison blues. She was shackled hand and foot, which I
thought it was a little too much, but I was watching,
and she took a plea, a guilty plea, and it
was lie. You know, she got She's already been in
(13:02):
jail for like six months waiting for a case to
be resolved, so she got time served. She was addicted
to alcohol, and she had had a crash. Nobody got killed,
but I forgot that, all the facts of it. She
lost her stockbroker's license, she could never practice again. She
her fan, her husband had finally divorced her. She was
(13:24):
on limited visitation with her children. She they managed to
lose their home during all this, couldn't make the payments
because she couldn't work, and here she was in shackles.
I'm like, dear Lord in heaven. And that was just alcohol,
you know what, I don't even know what what about drugs,
(13:44):
That's a whole another candle worms. But I mean when
I see what it's done to other people and they
can't they can't stop. They're addicted. It's an illness. It's
not like they want to be an alcoholic. For Pete's sake,
they can't stop. And this is an even alcoholism we're
talking about. This is alcohol intoxication because and some of
(14:07):
these kids, these are freshmen generally or sophomores, and they
might not have had a drinking history, probably did, but
may not have had much of it. And this is
maybe something they're not even used to, and then they
are encouraged or forced through peer pressure to become intoxicated,
uh in a very deadly way. So this preliminary hearing
(14:28):
is very simple, as Alan correctly stated, all a preliminary
hearing is is you put evidence in front of the
judge and the judge decides whether the case has enough
facts that there is an issue a question of fact
for a jury to decide. That's all it is, and
(14:50):
then he she the judge will bind the case over,
which means sends it, send it to the direct court
to the core excuse me correct core i E. Is
it a felony, then it goes to felony court, it
goes to a grand jury. Is it a misdemeanor, then
it's going to go to misdemeanor court. That's all the
judges doing, not deciding guilt or innocence, but just simply
(15:13):
is there an issue of fact that needs to go
to a jury. But this is this one is going
to be probably particularly complicated. You'll need a big spreadsheet
because there are one thousand charges against eighteen young men
and they range from involuntary manslaughter to hazing which is
against law, to UH forcing somebody to drink, to providing
(15:38):
my a minor with alcohol to aggravated assault. This odyssey
went on for over twelve hours, and the medical examiner
said there is absolutely clear evidence that his death could
have been prevented easily, prevented easily. I mean, this is
(16:02):
what I keep thinking about. I keep thinking about my children,
and you know, Alan, I try, God help me to
do it all. Two help them make good grades, to
get them to church when I don't feel like it,
to make them go to Sunday school, to make them
(16:23):
go to piano classes, to try to get out in
the yard and try to teach them how to play basketball.
If you can only imagine that, Okay, try to I
get out in the yard and trying to teach them
how to play soccer. It's it's embarrassing. But they're too
young to know how dumb I look. So I mean,
I'm just trying everything, you know, their little projects. I
(16:44):
help them with their projects, blah blah blah, anything to
help them along their way to succeed, to do better,
you know, to get along in the world where you
have to fit in with your peers, blah blah. And
and to think that one day I would be sitting
(17:04):
I'm just crossing myself. God, please don't let this happen
to me sitting in court watching video surveillance of the
last moments. That is what this family that the dad said,
they treated him like roadkill, just stepping over him. That's
(17:24):
exactly right. That's exactly what it looked like, like like
he wasn't a human, that he was just a an
animal laying on the floor that had been hit by
a car. That they didn't do, you know, they just
keep on going. Just when you said that, it really
hit me. I mean he had blood on his face,
(17:44):
he was lying in the floor, moaning, writhing in pain,
and they did nothing but literally step over him and
then think up ways to conceal the X from police.
What's in our brain that causes us to ignore somebody suffering,
(18:06):
somebody who's being abused. What is in our brain that
causes us to think it's not relevant to me, I
don't have to pick up the phone. He didn't die
from blood alcohol poisoning. He died from severe head trauma
and severe abdominal bleeding. That's what That was the official
cause of death. Although he was four times the legal
(18:28):
limit on us to point three six incredible, really over
it less and that could kill you for that's still
thirty two. Okay, the legal limit is point oh eight,
and he was between two eight and three six point
three six at the time of his death. I mean,
(18:48):
then the screaming match over whether to call nine one one,
and they tell the younger kid to just leave, that
he didn't know anything, just get out, and he does,
you know, he leaves, and then the boy dies Timothy
Piazza and everybody's talking about, Oh, we're gonna have stricter
rules and about hazing and blah blah, you know what
(19:10):
to hey with it, because nothing can bring this boy back.
They've been talking about stricter rules and no hazing as
long as I can remember, for a hundred years. This
has been going on more than a century. And I
gotta tell you something. For two of my four years
in college, I was Greek, I was a d pie,
and I never saw anything like this. I mean, I
(19:33):
went away to college and my friend from Making I
new absolutely I need one person, a boy from my
high school and he was in a boy's dorm across campus,
and I was in a girl's dorm on the other
side of campus. I need nobody. I hooked up with
a friend girl of mine from Making and she was
in a sorority and she said, please come to join
(19:56):
us and meet my friend dead. And for two years
I was part to that until I transferred, and then
I was as many people say, and I am f
and I will not feel what that stands for. But
I was independent and spent all my time working in
the library and getting ready for law school. Um after
Keith's murder. But I never saw anything like this. I
(20:18):
mean when I pledged, they sent me cars with violets, okay,
and I mean that was that was it, and they
were we were would have like surprise pancake breakfasts and
be like whoa, okay, nothing like this. I mean I
don't know where. And then I saw fraternity parties and
(20:39):
this was not going on. Of course I wasn't there
during the pledging. Well, when we were in college, eighteen
was the legal drinking age. I still didn't drink. People
would bring me a beer and I poured in a plant.
Poor plant. I'm sure it's dead now now, Okay, so
what happens now? Let's talk about if people are gonna
plead guilty and roll over on each other, because that's
(21:00):
what I predict that I expect some of that could happen.
I'm thinking, well, I'm already seeing that some of these defendants,
their lawyers are pointing the fingers, saying it wasn't me,
it was him. That's already happening. They're trying to drag
other people in, for example, the advisor to the fraternity.
They're saying, hey, you should have charged him, not me.
You know, he let me get you ready, Alan, before
(21:21):
you blurt this out, Voluntary intoxication is not a defense
to this charge. The law specifically states that, for the
most part, voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is never
a defense unless you're commentos to the point you can't
move and then you're not acting anyway. So, generally speaking,
(21:44):
voluntary use of drugs or alcohol never a defense. So
they're not going to be able to claim I was drunk,
I didn't know what was happening, that ain't working, or
I never handed him a drink. He got his own drink.
That's we've already were already hearing that one. Yeah, probably
probably after he has taken to the hospital. The fraternity
members delete text messages, they try they get in there
(22:07):
and try to erase the surveillance video. People not know
that doesn't work anymore unless they can tell you did it. Hello, Yeah, exactly,
it's digital people. It's on this hard drop. Do you
see Harry Potter? Have you seen all of them and
read all the books? Because I have no. I've not
seen a single moment. It's wrong with you. I don't have.
(22:28):
You are not qualified to be on this podcast. If you,
I'm sure I'll do it. My grandkids are too and
Littlena had her fourth birthday this weekend. Too young, they're
too young for that. My daughter missed that. But let
me tell you why I'm saying this. There's an episode.
Jackie here is in the studa. She's shaking her head.
She knows the deal. Do you remember when Professor Slughorn
(22:50):
had his memory, he altered his memory, and then when
they went back to try to look at what happened,
it didn't make sense. Don't people know if you hamper
with surveillance video, when it is finally viewed, they can
tell you've tampered with it. Okay, it doesn't work. So
they're in there trying to tamper with the surveillance video,
(23:11):
erase it and quote if need be, tell cops we
found him behind a bar the next morning around ten am,
freezing cold. We call nine one one immediately because this
kid's health was paramount, I mean, and he texted that
(23:32):
that that's what they were supposed to say to the police.
That's gonna hurt. Didn't anybody see what Richard happened to
Richard Nixon? The cover ups, the whole thing up. You know,
Rosemary Would's eighteen and a half minute gap in the
tape is no No matter what was said on the
eighteen and a half minutes, it couldn't have been as
damning as the fact that we know there was an
(23:53):
eighteen and a half minute gap that he claimed his
secretary accidentally see. I mean, you know what he could
have said, He could have said, and of course this
is a line. I'm not advocating this. You know what,
some of my supporters were over zealous and they gained
access translation broke into burglarized UH Democratic National Convention headquarters
(24:17):
to snoop E. Steele campaign secrets, and I didn't want that.
See if he had just come out and with something
instead of trying to cover the whole thing up that
how many times have we heard it's the cover up,
The gadget and here is the cover up. Okay, we're
waiting to find out what happens in the Penn State
(24:39):
fraternity manslaughter trial. And yes, I feel sorry for the
guys that are charged because many of them look so young.
But when I look at Timothy Piazza, I know why
Lady Justice wears a blindfold because she makes these decisions
just us must be blind to your appearance, your age,
(25:05):
your background, your race, your sex, your religion or lack thereof.
It doesn't matter. What matters is the truth. And that
is what I want. And you know what else I want? Alan,
I drink No, I have my hot tea with skim
milk right here. I want peace and comfort for Timothy's
(25:30):
parents because I know the pain I'm living with a
life cut short for a over a criminal reason is just.
But I can't imagine losing your child. I don't even
want to put those words out in the universe because
(25:53):
it's so scary to me. But God be with Timothy's
parents and everyone involved in this case. Amen, and I'm
leaving crime stories right there. Goodbye, friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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