November 21, 2023 • 43 mins
Betty and Connor Bowman have a lot in common when they marry.
Betty Bowman graduates from the University of Kansas School of Pharmacy with a Pharmaceutical Doctorate. She works as a hospital pharmacist while Connor Bowman gets his Internal Medicine Residency. Betty Bowman takes a position at the Mayo Clinic, so when she falls ill suddenly, the Mayo Clinic is the logical place for treatment.
It seems Betty Bowman is suffering from food poisoning, gastrointestinal distress, and dehydration. Her condition doesn't get any better. She takes a turn for the worse, with heart problems, and fluid buildup in her lungs. Part of her colon is also removed after doctors discover necrotic tissue. Bowman dies from organ failure.
Then the Southeast Minnesota Medical Examiner's Office alerts the Rochester Police Department to the suspicious nature of Betty Bowman's death. The Medical Examiner's office had to halt a cremation order.
According to court records, the Medical Examiner’s Office received a call from CGK- a female friend of the Bowman who said Betty and Connor Bowman were having marital issues and were talking about divorce following infidelity and a deteriorating relationship.
In the Criminal Complaint, it is stated that Conner Bowman told the Medical Examiner’s Office that his wife should be cremated immediately, arguing that Betty Bowman did not want to be a cadaver. Connor Bowman also began asking one of the medical examiner investigators if the toxicology analysis being completed would be more thorough than the analysis typically done at the hospital. Bowman wanted a list of what was specifically going to be tested for.
Friends of Betty Bowman began reaching out to investigators. An adult female friend of Betty Bowman told the Rochester Police Department that she had texted Betty Bowman and that Bowman told her she was sick. The friend told the detective that Betty Bowman was normally a healthy person. Another friend said a text from Betty Bowman said she thought a smoothie she had the night before might have caused her illness.
Detectives began looking at all options and found husband Connor Bowman had accessed Betty Bowman's patient account using his hospital credentials. From there he was able to locate internet searches conducted by Connor Bowman, a Poison Specialist.
Connor Bowman was researching COLCHICINE, a drug used to treat gout. What's more, he was searching for information in determining what a lethal dose would be, by entering his wife's weight.
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Dale Carson – High-profile Criminal Defense Attorney (Jacksonville), Former FBI Agent, and Former Police Officer (Miami-Dade County); Author: “Arrest-Proof Yourself;” Twitter: @DaleCarsonLaw
- Caryn L. Stark – Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych, FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice
- Robin Dreeke – Behavior Expert & Retired FBI Special Agent / Chief of the FBI Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program; Author: “Sizing People Up: A Veteran FBI Agents Manual for Behavior Prediction;” Twitter: @rdreeke
- Dr. Lyle D. Burgoon, Ph.D. – Toxicology Expert, President and CEO of Raptor Pharm & Tox, Ltd., and Fellow of the Academy of Toxicological Sciences; Critical Science Podcast: https://critscipod.com; Twitter/X: @DataSciBurgoon
- Charles Kelley - Reporter & Weekend Anchor for KTTC News; IG & TikTok: @charliemkelley, FB: Charles Kelley KTTC
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a loving wife and a
well respected pharmacist at nowhere else but the Mayo Clinic
dies unexpectedly. What happened? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
(00:29):
Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories
and on series XM one eleven, trying to figure out
what happened to Betty Bowman. Healthy as a horse and
then suddenly bam gone, just like that of natural causes.
Let's just start at the beginning. Take a listen to this.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
On August twenty first, twenty twenty three, the Southeast Minnesota
Medical Examiner's Office alerted the Rochester Police Department to the
suspicious death of Betty Bowman. She died on Agith and
the Medical Examiner's Office had to halt a cremation order
after learning of possible suspicious circumstances. According to court records,
the Medical Examiner's Office received a call from CGK, a
(01:12):
female friend of the Bowmans.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Huh okay, So just because a friend calls the hospital,
suddenly everything's off again. Thank you for being with us
here at Crime Stories. We're taking a very close look
at the death of a thirty two year old Mayo
clinic pharmacist who suddenly dies. Now when she goes in
(01:39):
to the hospital, she's perfectly fine in the weeks leading
up to that. But then how does everything go so
horribly wrong? And I will go first to Karen Start,
joining us renowned psychologists, joining us out of Manhattan, TV
radio trauma expert. You can find her at Karenstart dot
com and that's spelled Karen with to see Karen. I
(02:01):
think the shock of someone dying young and unexpectedly, it's
a whole different thing than when someone is in the
hospital or they're elderly. I guess, in a way, even
though there's no way to ever be ready to say
goodbye to somebody you love. And I know that whether
they die of old age or like my fiancee is
(02:24):
murdered in his twenties, unexpectedly, there's no good way to
say goodbye to somebody you love. But when it's sudden
and unexpected that it's a whole other layer to the
process of getting through it. You have the right words.
I don't. I'm just a lawyer. You explain, Karen Stark.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Bringing up your fiance That's a great example, because.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Karen, just because of you, you remember I gave up coffee,
you know, when I was pregnant with the twins because
of you and your analysis of all of these murders.
I've gone back to the hard stuff. I'm back on coffee.
Thank you. Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
But when you're talking about trauma, this is a great
example because the family, the friends, the people that were
close to her, they have more trouble getting over something
like this.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
You don't ever get over.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Losing somebody that you love. But when it's traumatic like this,
when someone is healthy and described as being somebody that
loved people had all this energy and then overnight enters
the hospital and they did in a few days, they
just they're gone. That leaves you with something that you
(03:38):
can't stop thinking about. It's stayed, it's indelible, it's etched
into you, and it takes so much work to be
able to even live your life normally again without obsessing
about what could have.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Happened, What did I.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Do wrong, why didn't I say something? How am I responsible?
Even though you're not really affects people in a very
strong way, because it's not it's really like out of
left field.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Another thing about that, Karen Stark, Sometimes I have such
a huge long to do list every day. Sometimes I
forget some of them, not often, but sometimes, But I
remember distinctly every word that was said when I learned
Keith had been murdered. Because when I found out he
(04:28):
had passed away, See, it's hard for me to still
say dead. I thought that there been a car crash.
I didn't really know what had happened. In a period
of time passed and then I found out he was murdered.
And I remember the pastor at my little Methodist church,
I said, what happened and he was murdered. I remember
(04:50):
the entire conversation verbatim. Now, how can that be, Karen,
when I can forget it to do list?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Because what happens when you get that kind of news fancy,
it's kind of like a movie that plays in your head.
You remember everything that was said to you and what
you've and it's just it becomes stuck because it's just
so unexpected and it's not anything.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
There's no script for it.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Your whole life story changes.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Joining me in addition to Karen Stark and again you
can find her at Karenstark dot com. And I want
to tell you we have not only been colleagues for many,
many years. We spent hours sitting together in the dark
of a Court TV studio watching trials live.
Speaker 6 (05:37):
Boy, you did.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
That's how I met Karen Stark at Court TV Third Avenue,
New York, when I did live trial coverage every single day,
and she would get up and come to the morning
shift with me. Had to be there at seven am. Guys,
we're talking about a thirty two year old young woman
so suddenly kills over in the hospital. There's really no
good way to put that. Joining me right now of Rochester.
(06:01):
Charles Kelly, reporter and anchor KTTC News, Charles, this woman
was actually beloved. You know, people actually get attached to
their pharmacist. I got attached to our pharmacist and even
the checkout person. I think it was the walgrains when
the twins were first born, because we were there so much,
(06:24):
Charles Kelly, we were there like between the two of
them every third day getting something for them, and they
knew us, and we knew them and their families because
we saw them all the time. And that's the way
this woman, Betty Bowman was. She was actually beloved at
the Mayo Clinic. I mean and Charles Kelly, can you
(06:45):
get any better than the Mayo Clinic? Really?
Speaker 7 (06:47):
No, the world renowned Mayo Clinic. That that is what
Rochester is very much known for.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
It is world renown, it is, and they don't hire
just me schlump off the streets. So this woman had
to be super smart and at the top of her game,
and now she's killing over guys. Take a listen to
our friends at crimeonline dot com.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Born and raised in Wichita, Kansas, Betty Bowman is the
kind of woman people like to call a friend. She's smart, loyal,
and exceptionally thoughtful. She graduated from the University of Kansas
School of Pharmacy with a pharmaceutical doctorate and completed residency
at Stormont Vale Hospital into Peka, Kansas. Betty and Connor
Bowman got married in May of twenty twenty one and
(07:29):
lived in Rochester, Minnesota, where Betty worked as a hospital
pharmacist while Connor went through internal medicine residency.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Oh on, right there, Wait, is this another case of
the wife putting the husband through medical school? Jackie ise
that what happened, Charles Kelly? Does she put him through
medical school while she worked as a pharmacist I.
Speaker 7 (07:46):
Just know they both are very well educated medical experts.
But she was in medical school and then not sure
what the timeline is with their schooling.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Well, I know she got a doctorate, completed her residency
in Topeka. They get married twenty twenty one. Betty worked
as a pharmacist while he went through his residency. I
guess they met somewhere along the way in studies. She
went all the way to get her doctorate. So you know,
(08:22):
let me throw this out to doctor Lyle D. Burgoon,
President CEO Rapptor Farm and Talks Fellow of the Academy
of Toxicological Sciences Critical Science podcast. Wow, you're a toxicology expert.
How do you have time to do all that? Doctor Lyle?
Don't answer that. That was rhetorical, doctor Lyle Burgoon, I'm
(08:45):
going to call you doctor Lyle. That's okay, Doctor Lyle,
just a personal known on pharmacy studies. When I went
to college, I said Mom, what should I be? She said,
be a pharmacist. You'll always have a job. I'm like, okay,
I'll be aharmacists. I did not take chemistry in high school.
(09:06):
Was it required? So I go to college to be
a pharmacist, and I looked up. I didn't even know
what the elements were. I'm like, what is that? Then
I found out I was supposed to already know all that.
Needless to say, I fainted in the first lab when
I smelled all the chemicals. Hey, going to an autopsy
or a crime saying no problem, no problem, I don't
(09:28):
care how many dead bodies are in there, but that
chemistry lab I passed out anyway. Needless to say, I
did not do well at that. So I have my
hat off to anybody that can fight their way through.
It's like walking down Fifth Avenue through chewing gum, getting
through all that chemistry. So what do you have to
(09:49):
do to get a doctor? I'm trying to find out
about this woman. I'm going to know everything I can
find out. What do you know?
Speaker 8 (09:55):
Yeah, so to get a doctorate in pharmaceutical sciences or
hers is probably a doctorate of pharmacy or actually pharmaceutical
scientist too.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Did you just say you're a pharmaceutical what you're a
pharmaceutical scientist? What did you just say?
Speaker 8 (10:10):
Oh, I'm a pharmacologist, which is kind of related. So
I can't just spend drugs like a pharmacist can. But
you know, when I was in grad school, we would
study drugs and chemicals and how they do things, and
then we would turn around.
Speaker 9 (10:23):
We would actually teach.
Speaker 8 (10:25):
In the well, we have a pharmacy program where I was,
but we would teach in the medical schools and the
pharmacy schools.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
And where were you, by the way, I was at
Michigan State University. Well that's a great school.
Speaker 9 (10:34):
It is. Love it.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
So this woman really again at the top of her
game and beloved, and all of our coworkers talked about
how thoughtful she was, had a traditional upbringing in Kansas,
in Wichita, beloved by her family. Can you imagine that
phone call. Everything's fine one day and the next day
she's dead. So let's get down to it. What happened?
(10:57):
Take a listen to our friend Dave mac.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
At thirty two years old, Betty Bowman passes away from
a sudden onset autoimmune and infectious illness. Family and friends
are shocked. Betty Bowman was suffering from what seemed like
food poisoning, gastro intestinal distress, and dehydration when she was
admitted at the Mayo Clinic Saint Mary's Hospital on August sixteenth,
but her condition didn't get better. She took a turn
(11:20):
for the worse, with heart problems, fluid built up in
her lungs, and the removal of part of her colon
after it was discovered it contained necrotic tissue. This before
she died from organ failure.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Okay, that was like drinking from the fire hydrant, Nancy.
That was a lot of information. Is that, del Carson?
Speaker 10 (11:38):
It is?
Speaker 4 (11:38):
You know this is something with Okay, I just want.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
To point out the deal. Carson is a veteran trial lawyer,
a high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville. He knows nothing
about pharmacology. He's not a medical doctor. Yet he's interrupting
the doctors and the toxicologists. Okay, I can't wait to
hear this. Go ahead, Dale Carson.
Speaker 11 (11:56):
That's why I was an FBI agent because I saw
that than a lot of other people.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Right, and he's certainly never been accused of being modest.
Go ahead, there you go.
Speaker 9 (12:05):
She was at Mayo Clinic. She's a doctor at Mayo Clinic.
She got the best care in the world. Immediately, those people.
Speaker 11 (12:14):
Love one another when they're in practice together, so it's
not like she got reduced medical care. She got the
world's premium medical care. And it's a wonder she doesn't survive.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
It's a wonder. I got to tell you my mom,
My mom was having a lot of difficulties, and Jackie,
it was during Dancing with the Stars, so there's already
true ress. Plus I was working full time, Plus I
had the twins living in a little bit of the apartment.
And in the middle of all this, my mom, who
was with me, got ill and we rushed her out
from La across the country to the Mayo Clinic and
(12:49):
they were amazing. So what you just said, Dell Carson
was dead on. Absolutely. If you can't the Mayo Clinic,
it can't help you. Nobody can help you. So all
of a sudden she dies and I need to speak
to doctor Lyle Bragoon again. Doctor Lyle, Well, what does
this mean? So she goes in for what do you say,
(13:14):
food poisoning and suddenly she has part of her colon removed.
It contained necrotic tissue. Now, necro, that means dead necrophiliac.
What is necrotic tissue in your colon?
Speaker 8 (13:34):
It's exactly as you said, it's dead tissue. Basically, that
part of the large.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Intestine just died for some reason.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Okay, wait a minute, food poisoning, and suddenly your tissue
in your body is dead. See I'm into a lot
of autopsies, doctor Lyle, but I've never heard they go
in and they find dead tissue in your body. How
do you get dead tissue?
Speaker 8 (13:57):
So usually what happened and you know, if we see
that tissue, it's you have a lack of oxygen so
that the blood flow to the area has stopped.
Speaker 9 (14:08):
You know. One of the things that you might see
if you.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
If you just came out of an.
Speaker 8 (14:12):
Intestinal surgery of some kind, maybe an appendix removal or
something like that. One of the things that they're concerned
about is that the intestines will actually loop around themselves
and create a knot. And what that'll do is they'll
stop all the blood flow to a part of your intestine. So, uh,
that's why they're really happy if you're actually passing gas
and able to you know, uh poop for lack of
(14:33):
a better word. Uh, They're they're excited because it means
that you haven't you don't have a knots in your intestine,
because if you do, what will happen is the blood
flow will stop, the tissue there will die, and yeah,
it becomes a chronic.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, okay, I'm understanding what you're saying. A lot is
making sense now. After my dad, he had three open
heart surgeries plus countless others. He had, you know, stants,
He had the as I call it, the road o
radar cleaning out your he had his Karate, arnored everything Johne,
and he exercised. He was not overweight, he ate a
(15:08):
strict heart diet. He just had a bad heart. Long
story short, he has three open art surgeries. One of
the first questions they ask, and I'm looking over at Jackie,
is did he poop yet? I'm at the time, of course,
one of the times I was a high schooler, one
of the times I was in law school. Every time,
I'm like, Dad, I don't know, but what does that
(15:28):
have to do with his heart? You just made perfect
sense and you answered a very mysterious question. Time Stories
with me. It's he Grace trying to figure out why
(15:51):
this woman has did tissue and she just went in
the hospital for food poisoning. Okay, let's hear more from
crime stories investigative reporters.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
While Betty Bowman was in the hospital. Connor Bowman suggested
she was suffering from a very rare illness referred to
as HLH. Tests were done for HLH, but they were inconclusive.
Regardless of the facts, Connor Bowman told multiple people his
wife died from HLH and even included HLH as a
(16:24):
cause of death in her obituary.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Okay, let me understand. What is h l H. I'm
going to be the brave one on this panel. Heemo
fay goctic go hemo fe gaw cidic hemo, vegasitic faga hemo,
vegasitic limpho his dion scytosis. I think is what HLH is.
(16:50):
But Charles Kelly, what is h LH?
Speaker 7 (16:54):
HLH is a rare illness and it's an It's like
an autoimmune disorder.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Ah is that right, doctor Lyell? Auto immune disorder?
Speaker 8 (17:04):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
So she goes in with food poisoning and she dies
of auto immune disorder. But wait a minute. Tests were
done for HLH at the urging of her husband, who
identified her ailment as HLH, and the result was inconclusive. Okay,
(17:28):
let's hear more.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
On August fourteenth, Betty Bowman told him friend that she
had a few days off work and was looking forward
to hanging out. Betty Bowman and her friend were texting
each other in the evening when Betty told him she
was a home with Connor Bowman. The next morning, Betty
Bowman texted the same friend that she was sick, could
not sleep at all because she felt so ill. She
told the friend that she thought it was a drink
(17:50):
she had the night before that caused her illness because
it was mixed in a large smoothie.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Okay, right there. I may not know how to pronounce hi.
I might not know about pharmacological studies, but I do
know when you are given a large smoothie and you
suddenly become so sick that you go into the hospital
and die. My spidery senses are up. I want to
(18:19):
go now to another special guest. Robin Drake is joining US.
Behavior expert. Former FBI special agent like del Carson, now lawyer.
Drake FBI Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program, author of Sizing People Up,
a veteran FBI agent's manual for behavior Prediction, which is incredible.
(18:42):
I love the part of that title, Manual for Behavior
Prediction is dead on Robin Drake. Robin Drake, so much
is happening surrounding the diagnosis of Betty Bowman, and I
don't know that we really get a clear cod cause
of death on Betty, but so far I don't like
(19:06):
that she drink something. And then the last time I
had food poisoning, and I rarely get it, I've got
a cast iron stomach. I was in Vegas because I
was spying on the children. They had a class trip
to the Grand Canyon, which was in the eighth grade.
Of course, I knew up here that they were going
to be fine, but in case anything went wrong, I
(19:29):
wanted to be nearby instead of on the other side
of the country. So flew to Vegas with David, my husband,
And even though they were all out in the Grand Canyon,
I just wanted to be near them in case they
somehow had a problem. While there, I ate at a
sushi restaurant. Never gotten sick off sushi, but that night
I was sick, sick, sick in through the next day.
(19:53):
But I didn't end up dead in the hospital from
bad sushi. I want you to hear this, Robin Drake. Listen.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
It is stated that Connor Bowman told the Medical Examiner's
office that his wife should be cremated immediately and argued
that her death was natural. Bowman attempted to cancel the autopsy,
claiming Betty Bowman did not want to be a cadaver.
During the same time, Connor Bowman was corresponding via email
with one of the death investigators with the Medical Examiner's
(20:23):
office and asking the investigator if the toxicology analysis being
completed would be more thorough than the analysis typically done
at the hospital. Bowman also asked for a list of
what was specifically going to be tested for.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Number One, I see a big fat lie. Just because
you have an autopsy doesn't mean you're going to be
used as a cadaver a dead body at a medical school.
That's not what that means. People have autopsies all the
time and they are put to rest in the family plot.
So by saying no, no, no, I don't want an autopsy,
she never wanted to be a cadaver. Those two said nonsecuatory.
(21:02):
They don't follow each other. Okay, right there, Drake, right there,
I got a problem. You want to rush somebody to cremation.
In my world, that's a red flag. Maybe not in
other people's worlds, but in my world that's a problem.
And then when you start sniffing around trying to find
out what drug panels were run, wh's toxicology panels were
(21:24):
run on your dead wife's body in the hospital, And
how does that compared to what's going to be done
at the medical examiner's office. I definitely smell a rat, Drake.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
I'm with you, Nanthy.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
You know, when we're looking at human behavior, we as
human beings, we do a really really good job of
establishing patterns and routines of the people around.
Speaker 9 (21:43):
Us, of ourselves.
Speaker 12 (21:44):
You highlighted yourself and your own food poisoning. You could
readily identify what it was because it deviated from what you.
Speaker 6 (21:51):
Normally have and you had a reaction to it.
Speaker 10 (21:53):
And so what his behavior was doing was deviating from
a pattern, and her death deviated from her entire lifestyle.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
So her friends and family are really the.
Speaker 12 (22:04):
Heroes here, as well as the medical examiner that really highlighted.
Speaker 10 (22:08):
That this is really unusual. And then his behavior is
also highly unusual.
Speaker 6 (22:12):
So there's lots of deviations.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
And people stood up and said something.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
I like what you said about deviations, because I rarely
wear somewood to dot com get sick. My husband, who
is six 'y three, he claims to weigh two hundred
and fifty pounds. I don't know if that's real or not.
Former football player, blah blah blah. He actually has a
very delicate system. He's constantly sniffing and sneezing and claiming
(22:39):
hay fever and whatever. He's actually very delicate. So for
him to suddenly get a cold and get OTCS over
the counter meds, which I detest, that's not unusual for him.
So this is a deviation. This woman didn't get sick,
she didn't have a delicate stomach or delicate disposition, and
(23:02):
so this is very unusual. So let me go to
the source. Doctor Lyle d. Burgoon, toxicology expert, president and
CEO of Raptor Farm and Talks, a fellow of the
Academy of Toxicological Sciences and star of the Critical Science podcast.
(23:25):
What about it, Doctor Lyle?
Speaker 8 (23:27):
You know, it's it's really it's really interesting, because yeah,
I agree about you know, this behavior is really strange.
Everything here is just really really strange.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Talking about the tx labs. Tell me about the talk labs. Yeah,
what do you do with the medical exammers. I know
that answer, but as compared to what would have been
done at the hospital, you know.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
The difference is going to be.
Speaker 8 (23:49):
Usually the hospital is looking for, you know, common drugs
of abuse, and they're looking for alcohol and things like that.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Basically, they want to know what's going.
Speaker 8 (23:57):
To interfere with any drugs that they might give you
in the hospital. When you go to the medical examiner's office,
they're going to be running for, you know, again.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
All the drugs of abuse, but they're also going.
Speaker 8 (24:06):
To be looking for other things that are typical poisons.
They're going to be looking for rare chemicals as well.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
They might do what we call.
Speaker 8 (24:14):
An untargeted analysis. They might pay a lab to just say,
you know, just go out and try to find anything
that's in this blood that looks weird.
Speaker 9 (24:23):
You know.
Speaker 8 (24:23):
Sometimes they'll do that, and that's you know, it's pretty
common because they're trying to figure out why did this
person die. Is there something in their blood? You know,
did they eat something that wasn't right?
Speaker 4 (24:34):
And so that's that's going to.
Speaker 8 (24:35):
Be the biggest difference.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
So Charles Kelly joining me, very well known investigative reporter
and anchor kt TC News Charles how quickly after Betty
dies unexpectedly in the hospital, did the husband want a
sudden cremation?
Speaker 7 (24:54):
They said it was it was almost immediately.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Uh huh. The last thing on my mind when I
was in the room when my dad passed away, was oh, dear,
let me set up the funeral. What time should it be?
What day should it be? Who's going to write the
O bit? I can't even think about.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
That.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I could think about was him and he wasn't going
to be with me anymore. Same thing with Keith. And
this guy's like got a head of steam for a cremation. Okay,
Dale Carson, I can't believe you break in on the toxicologist,
but now I'm getting some circumstantial evidence and you suddenly
go quiet.
Speaker 13 (25:28):
Well, I'm just you know, when you ask.
Speaker 9 (25:30):
Somebody to cremate immediately, that's the first red flag.
Speaker 11 (25:34):
The second is the obit that explains precisely what killed
the person in some kind of medical ease, and that's
extremely unusual.
Speaker 9 (25:45):
So the red flag start piling up.
Speaker 6 (25:48):
I'm going to jump in on Dale now too.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Is that it is Robin.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
I'm literally staring at the old bit too. I'm with
Dale in it. This o bit really stuck out to me.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Please tell me what about it is really sticking out
to you. And I also want to talk to somebody
about cremation because that gets rid of all your evidence
if you don't have the right labs.
Speaker 13 (26:10):
It's over in the obit, it says, following a sudden
onset of auto immune and infectious illness.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
Yep, controlling the narrative.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Come on, you're so right, controlling the narrative.
Speaker 6 (26:27):
And so it's interesting here Nancy with this obit, even
when because he wrote the o bit, it says it
in some of the documents and so down further, he
actually she is survived by her fur baby, Sir Crumpet,
her husband Connor, not like loving husband or anything like that,
and so many special friends and loved ones. So if
he wrote it, he actually omitted the mother who she
(26:49):
actually had a very close relationship with. So it's a
very stale obit.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
He put in the dog first, yeah, lifted the dog first.
Speaker 12 (26:57):
And also all the condolences are a lot more heartfelt
than the actual little bit.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Who was this spaking? Is that? Robin Drake, Robin Drake,
You're right, I hear Karen start jumping Karen Well Nancy.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
In addition to the fact that this OVID is so bizarre,
none of her friends or family knew that she had
this rare disease that he decides he's going to list
this autoimmune disease, and so right away people were suspicious
because it didn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
I'm sure the mom is like, what auto I mean, Alman,
what are they even talking about? Charles Kelly, tell me
some more about her a bit place.
Speaker 7 (27:34):
Yeah, So I actually spoke with some of her close
friends and previous colleagues and asked them if they thought
it was suspicious. You know, they said, she seems very
healthy from what they knew, but they just they didn't
really question it because I think they're in so much shock.
And they said that they didn't talk deep enough about
their health issues that they wouldn't have known if she
had this autoimmune disorder. But to them, and there are
(27:56):
other doctors too, saying she was a healthy person overall,
always living life to its fullest. So I also think
what's interesting is one of the best friend thoughs speaking
to told me that she has a very close sister
and she's not listed in the obituary at all as well.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Now I'm looking at the photo that was posted on
her online a bit. It's of her and a pair
of cutoffs. The ocean is behind her and she's looking
up over her shoulder lovingly at her husband. I'm rereading
the oh bit, and you're absolutely correct. Survived by her
(28:32):
fur baby, Sir Crumpet, the second of Mulberry, her husband Connor,
and so many special friends and loved ones, not even
mentioning her actual family, her blood relatives. You know, I'm curious,
Charles Kelly, did he already have the oh bit written?
Speaker 7 (28:51):
That is not confirmed. We are not sure if he
had that already prepared, but we know that in the
reports that he wrote it.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
I remember that was one of the worst. Mine was
in my wife sitting around the kitchen table with my
brother and sister trying to write my dad's a bit. Guys,
what more do we not listen?
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Friends of Betty Bowman began reaching out to investigators. An
adult female friend of Betty Bowman told Detective Kendrick of
the Rochester Police Department that she had texted with Betty
Bowman on August sixteenth, and that Bowman told her she
was sick and was at the hospital and things were
going downhill. The friend told the detective that Betty Bowman
was a healthy person. According to the criminal complain, the
(29:30):
friend also told the detective that Connor Bowman had attended
pharmacy school, worked in poison controling Kansas, and was currently
in medical school. Betty Bowman had told others that Connor
Bowman was so much in debt that they kept separate
bank accounts. Connor Bowman told a female friend that he
was going to get five hundred thousand dollars in life
insurance as a result of Betty Bowman's death. Bowman also
(29:53):
told her that Betty Bowman was suffering from HLH.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Five hundred thousand dollars. Wait a minute, Charles Ky, investigative
reporter and anchor KTTC. Why was he in debt.
Speaker 7 (30:04):
From his pharmacy school and from those here's a school
the money racked up, But it's interesting that you would
talk about the life insurance way that he's getting after
his wife has just passed away unexpectedly.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Five hundred thousand dollars and the only debt was from school.
Speaker 7 (30:21):
I'm not sure from the report if there was more
to it than just his loans from school, or if
there was other reasons behind that.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
There's got to be more, and I'll tell you why.
I think there's more. I had so much debt. I
went to law school on student loans. It took me
ten years to pay him off. I wrote the check
twelve times a year for ten years, and I remember
the amount one hundred and seventy seven dollars and eleven cents.
In fact, I didn't even know the loan and ended.
(30:50):
And I sent one check too many and they sent
it back to me. So he could easily have done
this through loans. Did he have a double life? Why
did he have so much debt that he was bragging
about a five hundred thousand dollars life insurance policy? And
I'm curious when did he take that out? But there's more. Listen.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
The University of Kansas was able to locate Internet searches
conducted by Bowman on their device and network. Kendrick was
told that Connor Bowman was researching cal caisine cole cassine
is a drug used to treat gout. During his time
answering calls on the poison line, Bowman had not received
any calls regarding col caisine. Neither had any other employees
(31:34):
answering calls on the poison line, so.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
He actually manned the poison line while he was in
med school at Poison Control Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
(32:00):
doctor Lyle Burgin, toxicology expert. What is cole casine and
is that a normal job for someone in medical school
to work at poison Control?
Speaker 8 (32:13):
So I answered the second question first, it's not. It's
not completely unusual. Different states have different rules about who
can work as a poison specialist.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Typically you have to be someone.
Speaker 8 (32:26):
Who's licensed, so he may have been a pharmacy tech.
That's actually a pretty common thing for people who are
aspiring to go.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
To medical schools.
Speaker 8 (32:35):
They become pharmacy techs or they become e mts.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
And then if they have that kind of background, they can.
Speaker 8 (32:41):
Sometimes work as a poison specialist. But to your your
first question, colt scene is an interesting chemical. It's a
it's a plan drived drug. It's been around for a
long time. It's considered one of the more ancient drugs, and.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
It's been use to treat gout for a very long time.
Speaker 8 (33:03):
What's interesting about culture sines, though, is how it works,
it actually gets into your cells. In our cells, we
have like thingums as rails, like train rails, So.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
We have these little railways, and one of them is
called tubulin, and.
Speaker 8 (33:18):
Tubulin moves proteins around from one side of the cell
to the other. But it also helps cells move. So
immune cells actually crawl through your body. It's kind of neat,
and once they get into an organ, they're just crawling around. Well,
if you if you take culture sine, that railway stops,
and so now there's no way for proteins to move
(33:39):
across the cell. But the cell itself also can't move.
And so it also for cell division. Tissues like our intestines,
our mouth, you know, the the mucous lining of our mouth,
our nose and stuff like that. Those those mucus linings
are constantly being replenished. But if you take culture sine,
(33:59):
it's stop cell divisions. So your cell stop dividing, and.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Then you don't replenish these things.
Speaker 8 (34:05):
And so that's actually what gives you like the GI distress,
the gas intestinal distress, stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Interesting that you said it was an ancient drug. It's
spin around forever. I wonder if that is part of
the labs, the standard labs that are run at the
medical examiners and the hospital. Are they or are they not?
Speaker 4 (34:24):
Dot Jlyle It's it's not entirely standard to look.
Speaker 9 (34:27):
For culture seine.
Speaker 8 (34:29):
You would you would probably have to have some suspicion,
like you know, somebody's coming in for food poisoning and
then they die. You know you're going to be saying, well, okay,
what drugs are going to cause you to have some
kind of GI distress. It's not a really large list.
You're anti cancer, drugs and culture seine.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Someone may know the hospital, neither hospital nor may is
going to look for culture seine in their standard lab work. Okay,
but then there's more. Listen.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Some of Connor Bowman's Internet searches seemed really out of place.
Police found Internet searches about the drug cul cauisine and
determining what a lethal dose would be by entering his
wife's weight. The fact that Bowman talked to death investigators
about the toxicology test being done on his wife seemed
out of place as well. The drug he researched, caul caussine,
was listed on the autopsy report as the cause of death.
(35:25):
The toxic effects of caul cassine.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Okay, Charles Kelly, do I understand this correctly? Her husband,
Connor Bowman research cultuisine and how much as it related
to her body weight?
Speaker 7 (35:42):
Yes, he even was converting her body weight to kilogram
and multiplying that in order to measure out the dose
sit rate in milligrams per kilogram for cultussine.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Okay, right there, Carson? What more do I need to
take this to a grand jury? Just tell me? Do
I need anything else?
Speaker 9 (36:06):
You need a coele?
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Okay? What you mean? I've got a dead body?
Speaker 9 (36:14):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
I've got a dead body. She's dead. How do you
think she's not dead? She's dead. We've been talking about it.
Speaker 9 (36:20):
I was just saying, you do have that?
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Okay. My question to you was what else do I need?
Do I need anything else?
Speaker 9 (36:27):
You need a confession?
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Don't need a confession? Good gravy man? Where did you
go to law school? Tell Carson, I've prosecuted in many
cases without a confession. I don't expect the defendant just
lay down and let me drive over him. Am I
giving me a confession? Man? I need to school you.
Who's jumping in?
Speaker 13 (36:45):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Karen Stark yes, it.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Is, because the concession is if you look at his
Internet searches, there's in some ways that's him speaking.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
How can some smart people do such stupid things like
leave a trail a mile wide? Well, okay, just that,
but I can tell you the day David Eugene, Yes
that's his middle name. Lynch looks ut VPN a private browser?
Oh yeah, fur is gonna fly listen.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Connor Bowman also accessed a search for the corrected question
from VPN to VPN. VPNs are secure methods of web
browsing and can be used by those who are trying
to hide their online activity from law enforcement. Bowman was
also searching sodium nitrate. Sodium nitrate can be used to
limit oxygen transport through the body. There was then a
(37:35):
Google shop page for various vendors selling sodium nitrate.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Okay, a Google shop page Charles Kelly for sodium nitrate.
Is that correct?
Speaker 9 (37:47):
Yes?
Speaker 7 (37:48):
That is exactly what a stated in the criminal complaint.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Doctor Lyell Bragoon. What is sodium nitrate?
Speaker 8 (37:53):
Sodium nitrate is a chemical. It's commonly found in ferglicers. Actually,
and it's extremely water.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
What do you mean? It's extremely water soluble and mean
like you could put it in a big fat slurpee.
Speaker 9 (38:05):
Yep, you could.
Speaker 8 (38:06):
You could put in a big flat fat slurpy. You
could put in the you know, whatever it is that
you want to drink it, It'll go in really easily.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
I'll tell you what. The day that I catch David
Lynch looking up sodium nitrate is to day I call
a divorce lawyer. Okay, just the cherry on top. Listen.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
The medical examiner determined the cause of death of thirty
two year old Betty Bowman to be toxic effects of
col cauisine and the manner of death homicide. Law enforcement
executed another search warrant on Connor Bowman's residence. Officers located
a receipt for a bank deposit of four hundred and
fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
You know, Robin Drink joining me behavior expert, former FBI
Special Agent in Chief of FBI Counter Intelligence Behavioral Analysis Program.
I have found, and I don't have the right psychological
terms for it, or psychiatric terms, that people that kill
for money for a pecuniary gain are a whole different animal.
(39:09):
There's just a whole different psychopathy in planning a murder.
For money.
Speaker 5 (39:14):
Yeah, and he's fitting the pattern of people that poison
people for money for gain.
Speaker 12 (39:22):
He's got a sense of an adequacy, most likely spoiled,
self centered.
Speaker 5 (39:26):
It's a rare form of murder, one of the rarest,
But it fits a pattern.
Speaker 6 (39:31):
When we're talking about patterns of behavior like we have been.
Speaker 5 (39:34):
It fits a pattern from his background, from his pharmacy side,
from working.
Speaker 11 (39:39):
At the Mayo clinic.
Speaker 5 (39:40):
And now we see a pattern behavior of internet searches.
And when you combine that altogether with trying to control
a narrative, trying to dispose of a body before they
can be toxicology, it's all fitting what we're observing.
Speaker 6 (39:52):
Man, it's a sad, tragic thing.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Charles Kelly KTTC. Is it true? I learned this according
to friends, that divorce was imminent. Why were they getting
a divorce? Do we know?
Speaker 7 (40:04):
All we know is that they were having marital issues,
and we're talking about divorce, calling fidelity and a deterring relationship.
That was from a call that was given to the
Medical Examiner's office from a female that's identified in the
police reports.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
So are there claims of infidelity? Is that what you
just said?
Speaker 7 (40:23):
Yes, that's what The female who called the Medical Examiner's
office said.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Who allegedly was cheating or were they both? That is unknown.
Speaker 11 (40:31):
Well, it's pretty clear that it was her with a
guy that was texting back and forth with her during
the composed divorce.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Oh, I'm in chart because that guy's texting me all
the time, particularly Wilson, our managing editor at Crime Online.
Should we tell his wife? Let's don't, just because Del
Carson twenty twenty three, Just because you're texting with a
male colleague does not mean you're in an affair.
Speaker 9 (40:58):
I don't think it was a colleague, and it was little.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
More than Jackie is wildly waving a note at me.
Connor was cheating. It was him. How do we know
Connor was cheating? You said, Connor is cheating the friend
the friends say, you know what, Dale Carson, I am
taking you to school, young man. I am taking you
to school. So where does the case stand right now?
(41:20):
Let me post that to our friend at KTTC, Charles Kelly.
What's happening right now?
Speaker 7 (41:26):
Right now? The Oldsaid County attorney that I spoke with,
they are currently charging him with second degree murder with intent,
he said, in order for them to charge for first
degree premeditated, they would have to go to a grand jury.
If they decide that within a fourteen day period.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Boohoo. What's the problem with going to a grand jury?
It takes about five minutes. This needs to be a
death penalty case. Well, I mean, seriously, the man plans
out a very painful death for his wife while he's
allegedly having an affair, and that she rise in pain,
(42:08):
has dead necrotic tissue in her colon, has to have
part of her colon removed, otherwise completely healthy, while he's
looking up doubt medication online and buying sodium nitrate. If
this is not a death penalty case, what is? Who
made that decision? Charles? Who made the decision? Is this
(42:31):
going to be a DP or not?
Speaker 7 (42:33):
We are not sure at the moment because of the
attorney's office will decide if they're going to go first three.
But they're just making sure if they do that, they
have all their ducks and rows so they can prove
that it was premeditated.
Speaker 9 (42:44):
Pretty clearly premeditated.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Yes, who's this stage.
Speaker 9 (42:50):
There?
Speaker 1 (42:50):
I mean, you're right, you've got all the internet searches. Gee,
how do I kill my wife with culture, chine or
whatever it is, and then rights crap. Oh bit to boot,
Oh yeah, we wait as justice and false. Goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a loving wife and a
well respected pharmacist at nowhere else but the Mayo Clinic
dies unexpectedly. What happened? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
(00:29):
Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories
and on series XM one eleven, trying to figure out
what happened to Betty Bowman. Healthy as a horse and
then suddenly bam gone, just like that of natural causes.
Let's just start at the beginning. Take a listen to this.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
On August twenty first, twenty twenty three, the Southeast Minnesota
Medical Examiner's Office alerted the Rochester Police Department to the
suspicious death of Betty Bowman. She died on Agith and
the Medical Examiner's Office had to halt a cremation order
after learning of possible suspicious circumstances. According to court records,
the Medical Examiner's Office received a call from CGK, a
(01:12):
female friend of the Bowmans.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Huh okay, So just because a friend calls the hospital,
suddenly everything's off again. Thank you for being with us
here at Crime Stories. We're taking a very close look
at the death of a thirty two year old Mayo
clinic pharmacist who suddenly dies. Now when she goes in
(01:39):
to the hospital, she's perfectly fine in the weeks leading
up to that. But then how does everything go so
horribly wrong? And I will go first to Karen Start,
joining us renowned psychologists, joining us out of Manhattan, TV
radio trauma expert. You can find her at Karenstart dot
com and that's spelled Karen with to see Karen. I
(02:01):
think the shock of someone dying young and unexpectedly, it's
a whole different thing than when someone is in the
hospital or they're elderly. I guess, in a way, even
though there's no way to ever be ready to say
goodbye to somebody you love. And I know that whether
they die of old age or like my fiancee is
(02:24):
murdered in his twenties, unexpectedly, there's no good way to
say goodbye to somebody you love. But when it's sudden
and unexpected that it's a whole other layer to the
process of getting through it. You have the right words.
I don't. I'm just a lawyer. You explain, Karen Stark.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Bringing up your fiance That's a great example, because.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Karen, just because of you, you remember I gave up coffee,
you know, when I was pregnant with the twins because
of you and your analysis of all of these murders.
I've gone back to the hard stuff. I'm back on coffee.
Thank you. Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
But when you're talking about trauma, this is a great
example because the family, the friends, the people that were
close to her, they have more trouble getting over something
like this.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
You don't ever get over.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Losing somebody that you love. But when it's traumatic like this,
when someone is healthy and described as being somebody that
loved people had all this energy and then overnight enters
the hospital and they did in a few days, they
just they're gone. That leaves you with something that you
(03:38):
can't stop thinking about. It's stayed, it's indelible, it's etched
into you, and it takes so much work to be
able to even live your life normally again without obsessing
about what could have.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Happened, What did I.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Do wrong, why didn't I say something? How am I responsible?
Even though you're not really affects people in a very
strong way, because it's not it's really like out of
left field.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Another thing about that, Karen Stark, Sometimes I have such
a huge long to do list every day. Sometimes I
forget some of them, not often, but sometimes, But I
remember distinctly every word that was said when I learned
Keith had been murdered. Because when I found out he
(04:28):
had passed away, See, it's hard for me to still
say dead. I thought that there been a car crash.
I didn't really know what had happened. In a period
of time passed and then I found out he was murdered.
And I remember the pastor at my little Methodist church,
I said, what happened and he was murdered. I remember
(04:50):
the entire conversation verbatim. Now, how can that be, Karen,
when I can forget it to do list?
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Because what happens when you get that kind of news fancy,
it's kind of like a movie that plays in your head.
You remember everything that was said to you and what
you've and it's just it becomes stuck because it's just
so unexpected and it's not anything.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
There's no script for it.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Your whole life story changes.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Joining me in addition to Karen Stark and again you
can find her at Karenstark dot com. And I want
to tell you we have not only been colleagues for many,
many years. We spent hours sitting together in the dark
of a Court TV studio watching trials live.
Speaker 6 (05:37):
Boy, you did.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
That's how I met Karen Stark at Court TV Third Avenue,
New York, when I did live trial coverage every single day,
and she would get up and come to the morning
shift with me. Had to be there at seven am. Guys,
we're talking about a thirty two year old young woman
so suddenly kills over in the hospital. There's really no
good way to put that. Joining me right now of Rochester.
(06:01):
Charles Kelly, reporter and anchor KTTC News, Charles, this woman
was actually beloved. You know, people actually get attached to
their pharmacist. I got attached to our pharmacist and even
the checkout person. I think it was the walgrains when
the twins were first born, because we were there so much,
(06:24):
Charles Kelly, we were there like between the two of
them every third day getting something for them, and they
knew us, and we knew them and their families because
we saw them all the time. And that's the way
this woman, Betty Bowman was. She was actually beloved at
the Mayo Clinic. I mean and Charles Kelly, can you
(06:45):
get any better than the Mayo Clinic? Really?
Speaker 7 (06:47):
No, the world renowned Mayo Clinic. That that is what
Rochester is very much known for.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
It is world renown, it is, and they don't hire
just me schlump off the streets. So this woman had
to be super smart and at the top of her game,
and now she's killing over guys. Take a listen to
our friends at crimeonline dot com.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Born and raised in Wichita, Kansas, Betty Bowman is the
kind of woman people like to call a friend. She's smart, loyal,
and exceptionally thoughtful. She graduated from the University of Kansas
School of Pharmacy with a pharmaceutical doctorate and completed residency
at Stormont Vale Hospital into Peka, Kansas. Betty and Connor
Bowman got married in May of twenty twenty one and
(07:29):
lived in Rochester, Minnesota, where Betty worked as a hospital
pharmacist while Connor went through internal medicine residency.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Oh on, right there, Wait, is this another case of
the wife putting the husband through medical school? Jackie ise
that what happened, Charles Kelly? Does she put him through
medical school while she worked as a pharmacist I.
Speaker 7 (07:46):
Just know they both are very well educated medical experts.
But she was in medical school and then not sure
what the timeline is with their schooling.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Well, I know she got a doctorate, completed her residency
in Topeka. They get married twenty twenty one. Betty worked
as a pharmacist while he went through his residency. I
guess they met somewhere along the way in studies. She
went all the way to get her doctorate. So you know,
(08:22):
let me throw this out to doctor Lyle D. Burgoon,
President CEO Rapptor Farm and Talks Fellow of the Academy
of Toxicological Sciences Critical Science podcast. Wow, you're a toxicology expert.
How do you have time to do all that? Doctor Lyle?
Don't answer that. That was rhetorical, doctor Lyle Burgoon, I'm
(08:45):
going to call you doctor Lyle. That's okay, Doctor Lyle,
just a personal known on pharmacy studies. When I went
to college, I said Mom, what should I be? She said,
be a pharmacist. You'll always have a job. I'm like, okay,
I'll be aharmacists. I did not take chemistry in high school.
(09:06):
Was it required? So I go to college to be
a pharmacist, and I looked up. I didn't even know
what the elements were. I'm like, what is that? Then
I found out I was supposed to already know all that.
Needless to say, I fainted in the first lab when
I smelled all the chemicals. Hey, going to an autopsy
or a crime saying no problem, no problem, I don't
(09:28):
care how many dead bodies are in there, but that
chemistry lab I passed out anyway. Needless to say, I
did not do well at that. So I have my
hat off to anybody that can fight their way through.
It's like walking down Fifth Avenue through chewing gum, getting
through all that chemistry. So what do you have to
(09:49):
do to get a doctor? I'm trying to find out
about this woman. I'm going to know everything I can
find out. What do you know?
Speaker 8 (09:55):
Yeah, so to get a doctorate in pharmaceutical sciences or
hers is probably a doctorate of pharmacy or actually pharmaceutical
scientist too.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Did you just say you're a pharmaceutical what you're a
pharmaceutical scientist? What did you just say?
Speaker 8 (10:10):
Oh, I'm a pharmacologist, which is kind of related. So
I can't just spend drugs like a pharmacist can. But
you know, when I was in grad school, we would
study drugs and chemicals and how they do things, and
then we would turn around.
Speaker 9 (10:23):
We would actually teach.
Speaker 8 (10:25):
In the well, we have a pharmacy program where I was,
but we would teach in the medical schools and the
pharmacy schools.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
And where were you, by the way, I was at
Michigan State University. Well that's a great school.
Speaker 9 (10:34):
It is. Love it.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
So this woman really again at the top of her
game and beloved, and all of our coworkers talked about
how thoughtful she was, had a traditional upbringing in Kansas,
in Wichita, beloved by her family. Can you imagine that
phone call. Everything's fine one day and the next day
she's dead. So let's get down to it. What happened?
(10:57):
Take a listen to our friend Dave mac.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
At thirty two years old, Betty Bowman passes away from
a sudden onset autoimmune and infectious illness. Family and friends
are shocked. Betty Bowman was suffering from what seemed like
food poisoning, gastro intestinal distress, and dehydration when she was
admitted at the Mayo Clinic Saint Mary's Hospital on August sixteenth,
but her condition didn't get better. She took a turn
(11:20):
for the worse, with heart problems, fluid built up in
her lungs, and the removal of part of her colon
after it was discovered it contained necrotic tissue. This before
she died from organ failure.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Okay, that was like drinking from the fire hydrant, Nancy.
That was a lot of information. Is that, del Carson?
Speaker 10 (11:38):
It is?
Speaker 4 (11:38):
You know this is something with Okay, I just want.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
To point out the deal. Carson is a veteran trial lawyer,
a high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville. He knows nothing
about pharmacology. He's not a medical doctor. Yet he's interrupting
the doctors and the toxicologists. Okay, I can't wait to
hear this. Go ahead, Dale Carson.
Speaker 11 (11:56):
That's why I was an FBI agent because I saw
that than a lot of other people.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Right, and he's certainly never been accused of being modest.
Go ahead, there you go.
Speaker 9 (12:05):
She was at Mayo Clinic. She's a doctor at Mayo Clinic.
She got the best care in the world. Immediately, those people.
Speaker 11 (12:14):
Love one another when they're in practice together, so it's
not like she got reduced medical care. She got the
world's premium medical care. And it's a wonder she doesn't survive.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
It's a wonder. I got to tell you my mom,
My mom was having a lot of difficulties, and Jackie,
it was during Dancing with the Stars, so there's already
true ress. Plus I was working full time, Plus I
had the twins living in a little bit of the apartment.
And in the middle of all this, my mom, who
was with me, got ill and we rushed her out
from La across the country to the Mayo Clinic and
(12:49):
they were amazing. So what you just said, Dell Carson
was dead on. Absolutely. If you can't the Mayo Clinic,
it can't help you. Nobody can help you. So all
of a sudden she dies and I need to speak
to doctor Lyle Bragoon again. Doctor Lyle, Well, what does
this mean? So she goes in for what do you say,
(13:14):
food poisoning and suddenly she has part of her colon removed.
It contained necrotic tissue. Now, necro, that means dead necrophiliac.
What is necrotic tissue in your colon?
Speaker 8 (13:34):
It's exactly as you said, it's dead tissue. Basically, that
part of the large.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Intestine just died for some reason.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Okay, wait a minute, food poisoning, and suddenly your tissue
in your body is dead. See I'm into a lot
of autopsies, doctor Lyle, but I've never heard they go
in and they find dead tissue in your body. How
do you get dead tissue?
Speaker 8 (13:57):
So usually what happened and you know, if we see
that tissue, it's you have a lack of oxygen so
that the blood flow to the area has stopped.
Speaker 9 (14:08):
You know. One of the things that you might see
if you.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
If you just came out of an.
Speaker 8 (14:12):
Intestinal surgery of some kind, maybe an appendix removal or
something like that. One of the things that they're concerned
about is that the intestines will actually loop around themselves
and create a knot. And what that'll do is they'll
stop all the blood flow to a part of your intestine. So, uh,
that's why they're really happy if you're actually passing gas
and able to you know, uh poop for lack of
(14:33):
a better word. Uh, They're they're excited because it means
that you haven't you don't have a knots in your intestine,
because if you do, what will happen is the blood
flow will stop, the tissue there will die, and yeah,
it becomes a chronic.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, okay, I'm understanding what you're saying. A lot is
making sense now. After my dad, he had three open
heart surgeries plus countless others. He had, you know, stants,
He had the as I call it, the road o
radar cleaning out your he had his Karate, arnored everything Johne,
and he exercised. He was not overweight, he ate a
(15:08):
strict heart diet. He just had a bad heart. Long
story short, he has three open art surgeries. One of
the first questions they ask, and I'm looking over at Jackie,
is did he poop yet? I'm at the time, of course,
one of the times I was a high schooler, one
of the times I was in law school. Every time,
I'm like, Dad, I don't know, but what does that
(15:28):
have to do with his heart? You just made perfect
sense and you answered a very mysterious question. Time Stories
with me. It's he Grace trying to figure out why
(15:51):
this woman has did tissue and she just went in
the hospital for food poisoning. Okay, let's hear more from
crime stories investigative reporters.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
While Betty Bowman was in the hospital. Connor Bowman suggested
she was suffering from a very rare illness referred to
as HLH. Tests were done for HLH, but they were inconclusive.
Regardless of the facts, Connor Bowman told multiple people his
wife died from HLH and even included HLH as a
(16:24):
cause of death in her obituary.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Okay, let me understand. What is h l H. I'm
going to be the brave one on this panel. Heemo
fay goctic go hemo fe gaw cidic hemo, vegasitic faga hemo,
vegasitic limpho his dion scytosis. I think is what HLH is.
(16:50):
But Charles Kelly, what is h LH?
Speaker 7 (16:54):
HLH is a rare illness and it's an It's like
an autoimmune disorder.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Ah is that right, doctor Lyell? Auto immune disorder?
Speaker 8 (17:04):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
So she goes in with food poisoning and she dies
of auto immune disorder. But wait a minute. Tests were
done for HLH at the urging of her husband, who
identified her ailment as HLH, and the result was inconclusive. Okay,
(17:28):
let's hear more.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
On August fourteenth, Betty Bowman told him friend that she
had a few days off work and was looking forward
to hanging out. Betty Bowman and her friend were texting
each other in the evening when Betty told him she
was a home with Connor Bowman. The next morning, Betty
Bowman texted the same friend that she was sick, could
not sleep at all because she felt so ill. She
told the friend that she thought it was a drink
(17:50):
she had the night before that caused her illness because
it was mixed in a large smoothie.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Okay, right there. I may not know how to pronounce hi.
I might not know about pharmacological studies, but I do
know when you are given a large smoothie and you
suddenly become so sick that you go into the hospital
and die. My spidery senses are up. I want to
(18:19):
go now to another special guest. Robin Drake is joining US.
Behavior expert. Former FBI special agent like del Carson, now lawyer.
Drake FBI Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program, author of Sizing People Up,
a veteran FBI agent's manual for behavior Prediction, which is incredible.
(18:42):
I love the part of that title, Manual for Behavior
Prediction is dead on Robin Drake. Robin Drake, so much
is happening surrounding the diagnosis of Betty Bowman, and I
don't know that we really get a clear cod cause
of death on Betty, but so far I don't like
(19:06):
that she drink something. And then the last time I
had food poisoning, and I rarely get it, I've got
a cast iron stomach. I was in Vegas because I
was spying on the children. They had a class trip
to the Grand Canyon, which was in the eighth grade.
Of course, I knew up here that they were going
to be fine, but in case anything went wrong, I
(19:29):
wanted to be nearby instead of on the other side
of the country. So flew to Vegas with David, my husband,
And even though they were all out in the Grand Canyon,
I just wanted to be near them in case they
somehow had a problem. While there, I ate at a
sushi restaurant. Never gotten sick off sushi, but that night
I was sick, sick, sick in through the next day.
(19:53):
But I didn't end up dead in the hospital from
bad sushi. I want you to hear this, Robin Drake. Listen.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
It is stated that Connor Bowman told the Medical Examiner's
office that his wife should be cremated immediately and argued
that her death was natural. Bowman attempted to cancel the autopsy,
claiming Betty Bowman did not want to be a cadaver.
During the same time, Connor Bowman was corresponding via email
with one of the death investigators with the Medical Examiner's
(20:23):
office and asking the investigator if the toxicology analysis being
completed would be more thorough than the analysis typically done
at the hospital. Bowman also asked for a list of
what was specifically going to be tested for.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Number One, I see a big fat lie. Just because
you have an autopsy doesn't mean you're going to be
used as a cadaver a dead body at a medical school.
That's not what that means. People have autopsies all the
time and they are put to rest in the family plot.
So by saying no, no, no, I don't want an autopsy,
she never wanted to be a cadaver. Those two said nonsecuatory.
(21:02):
They don't follow each other. Okay, right there, Drake, right there,
I got a problem. You want to rush somebody to cremation.
In my world, that's a red flag. Maybe not in
other people's worlds, but in my world that's a problem.
And then when you start sniffing around trying to find
out what drug panels were run, wh's toxicology panels were
(21:24):
run on your dead wife's body in the hospital, And
how does that compared to what's going to be done
at the medical examiner's office. I definitely smell a rat, Drake.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
I'm with you, Nanthy.
Speaker 5 (21:34):
You know, when we're looking at human behavior, we as
human beings, we do a really really good job of
establishing patterns and routines of the people around.
Speaker 9 (21:43):
Us, of ourselves.
Speaker 12 (21:44):
You highlighted yourself and your own food poisoning. You could
readily identify what it was because it deviated from what you.
Speaker 6 (21:51):
Normally have and you had a reaction to it.
Speaker 10 (21:53):
And so what his behavior was doing was deviating from
a pattern, and her death deviated from her entire lifestyle.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
So her friends and family are really the.
Speaker 12 (22:04):
Heroes here, as well as the medical examiner that really highlighted.
Speaker 10 (22:08):
That this is really unusual. And then his behavior is
also highly unusual.
Speaker 6 (22:12):
So there's lots of deviations.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
And people stood up and said something.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
I like what you said about deviations, because I rarely
wear somewood to dot com get sick. My husband, who
is six 'y three, he claims to weigh two hundred
and fifty pounds. I don't know if that's real or not.
Former football player, blah blah blah. He actually has a
very delicate system. He's constantly sniffing and sneezing and claiming
(22:39):
hay fever and whatever. He's actually very delicate. So for
him to suddenly get a cold and get OTCS over
the counter meds, which I detest, that's not unusual for him.
So this is a deviation. This woman didn't get sick,
she didn't have a delicate stomach or delicate disposition, and
(23:02):
so this is very unusual. So let me go to
the source. Doctor Lyle d. Burgoon, toxicology expert, president and
CEO of Raptor Farm and Talks, a fellow of the
Academy of Toxicological Sciences and star of the Critical Science podcast.
(23:25):
What about it, Doctor Lyle?
Speaker 8 (23:27):
You know, it's it's really it's really interesting, because yeah,
I agree about you know, this behavior is really strange.
Everything here is just really really strange.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Talking about the tx labs. Tell me about the talk labs. Yeah,
what do you do with the medical exammers. I know
that answer, but as compared to what would have been
done at the hospital, you know.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
The difference is going to be.
Speaker 8 (23:49):
Usually the hospital is looking for, you know, common drugs
of abuse, and they're looking for alcohol and things like that.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Basically, they want to know what's going.
Speaker 8 (23:57):
To interfere with any drugs that they might give you
in the hospital. When you go to the medical examiner's office,
they're going to be running for, you know, again.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
All the drugs of abuse, but they're also going.
Speaker 8 (24:06):
To be looking for other things that are typical poisons.
They're going to be looking for rare chemicals as well.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
They might do what we call.
Speaker 8 (24:14):
An untargeted analysis. They might pay a lab to just say,
you know, just go out and try to find anything
that's in this blood that looks weird.
Speaker 9 (24:23):
You know.
Speaker 8 (24:23):
Sometimes they'll do that, and that's you know, it's pretty
common because they're trying to figure out why did this
person die. Is there something in their blood? You know,
did they eat something that wasn't right?
Speaker 4 (24:34):
And so that's that's going to.
Speaker 8 (24:35):
Be the biggest difference.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
So Charles Kelly joining me, very well known investigative reporter
and anchor kt TC News Charles how quickly after Betty
dies unexpectedly in the hospital, did the husband want a
sudden cremation?
Speaker 7 (24:54):
They said it was it was almost immediately.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Uh huh. The last thing on my mind when I
was in the room when my dad passed away, was oh, dear,
let me set up the funeral. What time should it be?
What day should it be? Who's going to write the
O bit? I can't even think about.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
That.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I could think about was him and he wasn't going
to be with me anymore. Same thing with Keith. And
this guy's like got a head of steam for a cremation. Okay,
Dale Carson, I can't believe you break in on the toxicologist,
but now I'm getting some circumstantial evidence and you suddenly
go quiet.
Speaker 13 (25:28):
Well, I'm just you know, when you ask.
Speaker 9 (25:30):
Somebody to cremate immediately, that's the first red flag.
Speaker 11 (25:34):
The second is the obit that explains precisely what killed
the person in some kind of medical ease, and that's
extremely unusual.
Speaker 9 (25:45):
So the red flag start piling up.
Speaker 6 (25:48):
I'm going to jump in on Dale now too.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Is that it is Robin.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
I'm literally staring at the old bit too. I'm with
Dale in it. This o bit really stuck out to me.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Please tell me what about it is really sticking out
to you. And I also want to talk to somebody
about cremation because that gets rid of all your evidence
if you don't have the right labs.
Speaker 13 (26:10):
It's over in the obit, it says, following a sudden
onset of auto immune and infectious illness.
Speaker 6 (26:21):
Yep, controlling the narrative.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Come on, you're so right, controlling the narrative.
Speaker 6 (26:27):
And so it's interesting here Nancy with this obit, even
when because he wrote the o bit, it says it
in some of the documents and so down further, he
actually she is survived by her fur baby, Sir Crumpet,
her husband Connor, not like loving husband or anything like that,
and so many special friends and loved ones. So if
he wrote it, he actually omitted the mother who she
(26:49):
actually had a very close relationship with. So it's a
very stale obit.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
He put in the dog first, yeah, lifted the dog first.
Speaker 12 (26:57):
And also all the condolences are a lot more heartfelt
than the actual little bit.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Who was this spaking? Is that? Robin Drake, Robin Drake,
You're right, I hear Karen start jumping Karen Well Nancy.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
In addition to the fact that this OVID is so bizarre,
none of her friends or family knew that she had
this rare disease that he decides he's going to list
this autoimmune disease, and so right away people were suspicious
because it didn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
I'm sure the mom is like, what auto I mean, Alman,
what are they even talking about? Charles Kelly, tell me
some more about her a bit place.
Speaker 7 (27:34):
Yeah, So I actually spoke with some of her close
friends and previous colleagues and asked them if they thought
it was suspicious. You know, they said, she seems very
healthy from what they knew, but they just they didn't
really question it because I think they're in so much shock.
And they said that they didn't talk deep enough about
their health issues that they wouldn't have known if she
had this autoimmune disorder. But to them, and there are
(27:56):
other doctors too, saying she was a healthy person overall,
always living life to its fullest. So I also think
what's interesting is one of the best friend thoughs speaking
to told me that she has a very close sister
and she's not listed in the obituary at all as well.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Now I'm looking at the photo that was posted on
her online a bit. It's of her and a pair
of cutoffs. The ocean is behind her and she's looking
up over her shoulder lovingly at her husband. I'm rereading
the oh bit, and you're absolutely correct. Survived by her
(28:32):
fur baby, Sir Crumpet, the second of Mulberry, her husband Connor,
and so many special friends and loved ones, not even
mentioning her actual family, her blood relatives. You know, I'm curious,
Charles Kelly, did he already have the oh bit written?
Speaker 7 (28:51):
That is not confirmed. We are not sure if he
had that already prepared, but we know that in the
reports that he wrote it.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
I remember that was one of the worst. Mine was
in my wife sitting around the kitchen table with my
brother and sister trying to write my dad's a bit. Guys,
what more do we not listen?
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Friends of Betty Bowman began reaching out to investigators. An
adult female friend of Betty Bowman told Detective Kendrick of
the Rochester Police Department that she had texted with Betty
Bowman on August sixteenth, and that Bowman told her she
was sick and was at the hospital and things were
going downhill. The friend told the detective that Betty Bowman
was a healthy person. According to the criminal complain, the
(29:30):
friend also told the detective that Connor Bowman had attended
pharmacy school, worked in poison controling Kansas, and was currently
in medical school. Betty Bowman had told others that Connor
Bowman was so much in debt that they kept separate
bank accounts. Connor Bowman told a female friend that he
was going to get five hundred thousand dollars in life
insurance as a result of Betty Bowman's death. Bowman also
(29:53):
told her that Betty Bowman was suffering from HLH.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Five hundred thousand dollars. Wait a minute, Charles Ky, investigative
reporter and anchor KTTC. Why was he in debt.
Speaker 7 (30:04):
From his pharmacy school and from those here's a school
the money racked up, But it's interesting that you would
talk about the life insurance way that he's getting after
his wife has just passed away unexpectedly.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Five hundred thousand dollars and the only debt was from school.
Speaker 7 (30:21):
I'm not sure from the report if there was more
to it than just his loans from school, or if
there was other reasons behind that.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
There's got to be more, and I'll tell you why.
I think there's more. I had so much debt. I
went to law school on student loans. It took me
ten years to pay him off. I wrote the check
twelve times a year for ten years, and I remember
the amount one hundred and seventy seven dollars and eleven cents.
In fact, I didn't even know the loan and ended.
(30:50):
And I sent one check too many and they sent
it back to me. So he could easily have done
this through loans. Did he have a double life? Why
did he have so much debt that he was bragging
about a five hundred thousand dollars life insurance policy? And
I'm curious when did he take that out? But there's more. Listen.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
The University of Kansas was able to locate Internet searches
conducted by Bowman on their device and network. Kendrick was
told that Connor Bowman was researching cal caisine cole cassine
is a drug used to treat gout. During his time
answering calls on the poison line, Bowman had not received
any calls regarding col caisine. Neither had any other employees
(31:34):
answering calls on the poison line, so.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
He actually manned the poison line while he was in
med school at Poison Control Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
(32:00):
doctor Lyle Burgin, toxicology expert. What is cole casine and
is that a normal job for someone in medical school
to work at poison Control?
Speaker 8 (32:13):
So I answered the second question first, it's not. It's
not completely unusual. Different states have different rules about who
can work as a poison specialist.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
Typically you have to be someone.
Speaker 8 (32:26):
Who's licensed, so he may have been a pharmacy tech.
That's actually a pretty common thing for people who are
aspiring to go.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
To medical schools.
Speaker 8 (32:35):
They become pharmacy techs or they become e mts.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
And then if they have that kind of background, they can.
Speaker 8 (32:41):
Sometimes work as a poison specialist. But to your your
first question, colt scene is an interesting chemical. It's a
it's a plan drived drug. It's been around for a
long time. It's considered one of the more ancient drugs, and.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
It's been use to treat gout for a very long time.
Speaker 8 (33:03):
What's interesting about culture sines, though, is how it works,
it actually gets into your cells. In our cells, we
have like thingums as rails, like train rails, So.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
We have these little railways, and one of them is
called tubulin, and.
Speaker 8 (33:18):
Tubulin moves proteins around from one side of the cell
to the other. But it also helps cells move. So
immune cells actually crawl through your body. It's kind of neat,
and once they get into an organ, they're just crawling around. Well,
if you if you take culture sine, that railway stops,
and so now there's no way for proteins to move
(33:39):
across the cell. But the cell itself also can't move.
And so it also for cell division. Tissues like our intestines,
our mouth, you know, the the mucous lining of our mouth,
our nose and stuff like that. Those those mucus linings
are constantly being replenished. But if you take culture sine,
(33:59):
it's stop cell divisions. So your cell stop dividing, and.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Then you don't replenish these things.
Speaker 8 (34:05):
And so that's actually what gives you like the GI distress,
the gas intestinal distress, stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Interesting that you said it was an ancient drug. It's
spin around forever. I wonder if that is part of
the labs, the standard labs that are run at the
medical examiners and the hospital. Are they or are they not?
Speaker 4 (34:24):
Dot Jlyle It's it's not entirely standard to look.
Speaker 9 (34:27):
For culture seine.
Speaker 8 (34:29):
You would you would probably have to have some suspicion,
like you know, somebody's coming in for food poisoning and
then they die. You know you're going to be saying, well, okay,
what drugs are going to cause you to have some
kind of GI distress. It's not a really large list.
You're anti cancer, drugs and culture seine.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Someone may know the hospital, neither hospital nor may is
going to look for culture seine in their standard lab work. Okay,
but then there's more. Listen.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Some of Connor Bowman's Internet searches seemed really out of place.
Police found Internet searches about the drug cul cauisine and
determining what a lethal dose would be by entering his
wife's weight. The fact that Bowman talked to death investigators
about the toxicology test being done on his wife seemed
out of place as well. The drug he researched, caul caussine,
was listed on the autopsy report as the cause of death.
(35:25):
The toxic effects of caul cassine.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Okay, Charles Kelly, do I understand this correctly? Her husband,
Connor Bowman research cultuisine and how much as it related
to her body weight?
Speaker 7 (35:42):
Yes, he even was converting her body weight to kilogram
and multiplying that in order to measure out the dose
sit rate in milligrams per kilogram for cultussine.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Okay, right there, Carson? What more do I need to
take this to a grand jury? Just tell me? Do
I need anything else?
Speaker 9 (36:06):
You need a coele?
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Okay? What you mean? I've got a dead body?
Speaker 9 (36:14):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
I've got a dead body. She's dead. How do you
think she's not dead? She's dead. We've been talking about it.
Speaker 9 (36:20):
I was just saying, you do have that?
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Okay. My question to you was what else do I need?
Do I need anything else?
Speaker 9 (36:27):
You need a confession?
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Don't need a confession? Good gravy man? Where did you
go to law school? Tell Carson, I've prosecuted in many
cases without a confession. I don't expect the defendant just
lay down and let me drive over him. Am I
giving me a confession? Man? I need to school you.
Who's jumping in?
Speaker 13 (36:45):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Karen Stark yes, it.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Is, because the concession is if you look at his
Internet searches, there's in some ways that's him speaking.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
How can some smart people do such stupid things like
leave a trail a mile wide? Well, okay, just that,
but I can tell you the day David Eugene, Yes
that's his middle name. Lynch looks ut VPN a private browser?
Oh yeah, fur is gonna fly listen.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Connor Bowman also accessed a search for the corrected question
from VPN to VPN. VPNs are secure methods of web
browsing and can be used by those who are trying
to hide their online activity from law enforcement. Bowman was
also searching sodium nitrate. Sodium nitrate can be used to
limit oxygen transport through the body. There was then a
(37:35):
Google shop page for various vendors selling sodium nitrate.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Okay, a Google shop page Charles Kelly for sodium nitrate.
Is that correct?
Speaker 9 (37:47):
Yes?
Speaker 7 (37:48):
That is exactly what a stated in the criminal complaint.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Doctor Lyell Bragoon. What is sodium nitrate?
Speaker 8 (37:53):
Sodium nitrate is a chemical. It's commonly found in ferglicers. Actually,
and it's extremely water.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
What do you mean? It's extremely water soluble and mean
like you could put it in a big fat slurpee.
Speaker 9 (38:05):
Yep, you could.
Speaker 8 (38:06):
You could put in a big flat fat slurpy. You
could put in the you know, whatever it is that
you want to drink it, It'll go in really easily.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
I'll tell you what. The day that I catch David
Lynch looking up sodium nitrate is to day I call
a divorce lawyer. Okay, just the cherry on top. Listen.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
The medical examiner determined the cause of death of thirty
two year old Betty Bowman to be toxic effects of
col cauisine and the manner of death homicide. Law enforcement
executed another search warrant on Connor Bowman's residence. Officers located
a receipt for a bank deposit of four hundred and
fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
You know, Robin Drink joining me behavior expert, former FBI
Special Agent in Chief of FBI Counter Intelligence Behavioral Analysis Program.
I have found, and I don't have the right psychological
terms for it, or psychiatric terms, that people that kill
for money for a pecuniary gain are a whole different animal.
(39:09):
There's just a whole different psychopathy in planning a murder.
For money.
Speaker 5 (39:14):
Yeah, and he's fitting the pattern of people that poison
people for money for gain.
Speaker 12 (39:22):
He's got a sense of an adequacy, most likely spoiled,
self centered.
Speaker 5 (39:26):
It's a rare form of murder, one of the rarest,
But it fits a pattern.
Speaker 6 (39:31):
When we're talking about patterns of behavior like we have been.
Speaker 5 (39:34):
It fits a pattern from his background, from his pharmacy side,
from working.
Speaker 11 (39:39):
At the Mayo clinic.
Speaker 5 (39:40):
And now we see a pattern behavior of internet searches.
And when you combine that altogether with trying to control
a narrative, trying to dispose of a body before they
can be toxicology, it's all fitting what we're observing.
Speaker 6 (39:52):
Man, it's a sad, tragic thing.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Charles Kelly KTTC. Is it true? I learned this according
to friends, that divorce was imminent. Why were they getting
a divorce? Do we know?
Speaker 7 (40:04):
All we know is that they were having marital issues,
and we're talking about divorce, calling fidelity and a deterring relationship.
That was from a call that was given to the
Medical Examiner's office from a female that's identified in the
police reports.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
So are there claims of infidelity? Is that what you
just said?
Speaker 7 (40:23):
Yes, that's what The female who called the Medical Examiner's
office said.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Who allegedly was cheating or were they both? That is unknown.
Speaker 11 (40:31):
Well, it's pretty clear that it was her with a
guy that was texting back and forth with her during
the composed divorce.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Oh, I'm in chart because that guy's texting me all
the time, particularly Wilson, our managing editor at Crime Online.
Should we tell his wife? Let's don't, just because Del
Carson twenty twenty three, Just because you're texting with a
male colleague does not mean you're in an affair.
Speaker 9 (40:58):
I don't think it was a colleague, and it was little.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
More than Jackie is wildly waving a note at me.
Connor was cheating. It was him. How do we know
Connor was cheating? You said, Connor is cheating the friend
the friends say, you know what, Dale Carson, I am
taking you to school, young man. I am taking you
to school. So where does the case stand right now?
(41:20):
Let me post that to our friend at KTTC, Charles Kelly.
What's happening right now?
Speaker 7 (41:26):
Right now? The Oldsaid County attorney that I spoke with,
they are currently charging him with second degree murder with intent,
he said, in order for them to charge for first
degree premeditated, they would have to go to a grand jury.
If they decide that within a fourteen day period.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Boohoo. What's the problem with going to a grand jury?
It takes about five minutes. This needs to be a
death penalty case. Well, I mean, seriously, the man plans
out a very painful death for his wife while he's
allegedly having an affair, and that she rise in pain,
(42:08):
has dead necrotic tissue in her colon, has to have
part of her colon removed, otherwise completely healthy, while he's
looking up doubt medication online and buying sodium nitrate. If
this is not a death penalty case, what is? Who
made that decision? Charles? Who made the decision? Is this
(42:31):
going to be a DP or not?
Speaker 7 (42:33):
We are not sure at the moment because of the
attorney's office will decide if they're going to go first three.
But they're just making sure if they do that, they
have all their ducks and rows so they can prove
that it was premeditated.
Speaker 9 (42:44):
Pretty clearly premeditated.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Yes, who's this stage.
Speaker 9 (42:50):
There?
Speaker 1 (42:50):
I mean, you're right, you've got all the internet searches. Gee,
how do I kill my wife with culture, chine or
whatever it is, and then rights crap. Oh bit to boot,
Oh yeah, we wait as justice and false. Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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