November 21, 2024 • 45 mins
Heading into the ninth month of her pregnancy, Emma Baum finds out on October 4th that she is already dilated one centimeter. Six days later, knowing the baby will be here soon, Emma has her sister drive her to boyfriend, and father-to-be Antwon Butler's house in Gary, Indiana Thursday evening. Emma tells her sister she will see her tomorrow and goes inside.
Friday, Emma Baum does not reach out to her family members even though they are expecting her to come home. After waiting all weekend, Emma's mother, Jamie Baum, calls Butler and asks to speak to Emma. Antwon Butler tells Jamie that Emma isn't there...he saw her leave with a girl in a car. However, Butler changes his story several times and family believes he is being less than truthful. The family reports Emma Baum missing and tell the police Antwon Butler was the last person to see Emma. As it happens, Antwon Butler has an outstanding warrant for failure to appear, so he is picked up and taken to jail on charges not related to his missing girlfriend.
Weeks of searching for Emma have led to no results and the family of Emma Baum are at a loss for what to do next. Standing in front of Antwon Butler's house in Gary, Indiana, the family asks local tv crews to get the word out, begging for the safe return of the mom of three and her newborn.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Jamie Baum - mother
- Jason Waddell - father
- Abby Smith - sister
- Paige Baum - sister
- Gregory Morse – Partner at the law firm of King Morse, PLLC. Current CJA counsel (Southern District of Florida), Former West Palm Beach Public Defender’s Office. Author: “The Untested,” Website: kingmorselaw.com
- Dr. Shari Schwartz – Forensic Psychologist (Specializing in Capital Mitigation and Victim Advocacy); Author: “Criminal Behavior” and “Where Law and Psychology Intersect: Issues in Legal Psychology;” X: @TrialDoc” Twitter: https://twitter.com/TrialDoc, Author: "Criminal Behavior" and "Where Law and Psychology Intersect: Issues in Legal Psychology"
- Brian Fitzgibbons – VP of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security; Instagram: @uspa_nationwide_security, Kingsman Philanthropic’s 2022 rescue missions of women and children in Ukraine, Iraq War Veteranide_security
- Lisette Guillen - On-site host of 'Case Files Chicago',, Facebook: chicagolisette, IG: Lisette Guillen, LinkedIn: Lisette Guillen, TikTok: Bluangelwings
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a pregnant mom just twenty
five years old, missing tonight. The family's desperate plea, Where's Emma.
I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm Emma Bamba's mother. I would like my daughter home.
You miss her.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
She's her Baby's need her, her family needs her.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
And if anybody knows anything.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Or can help search for her, could you please help us?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
We need her home.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
That is Emma Baum's mother A desperate plea to bring
Emma home. Emma nine months pregnant, dilated to one centimeter
to our knowledge. That from our friends at ABC seven.
Joining me right now on All Star panel. But first
I'm going to go to Emma's mother, Jamie Baum. Jamie,
(01:02):
thank you for being with us. Also with Jamie is
Emma's father, Jason Waddell and sister Abby. To all of you,
thank you for being with us. I've just learned about
Emma's disappearance.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
I'm very curious.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I know that she's been gone several weeks at this point.
But the first thing I want to do, Jamie is
get her photo out there. Emma gorgeous, stunning inside and out.
Speaker 5 (01:31):
A real girly girl. She loved putting on makeup and
dressing up.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
She loved different styles, wearing wigs, just everything fashion. Now,
at nine months pregnant, seemingly has vanished straight back out
to Jamie Baum. First of all, tell me about the pregnancy.
(02:00):
Is it correct that she was at one centimeter when
she goes missing?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yes, she was.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Tell me about her pregnancy. Has it been a difficult pregnancy?
Has it been high risk? What can you tell me?
Because I'm trying to imagine. Is she in some hospitals somewhere?
Speaker 5 (02:17):
Has she had the baby? But what is behind all
of this? How do you just vanish at nine months pregnant?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I could hardly walk at six months pregnant with twins,
So how does a pregnant young she's just twenty five,
a young woman just seemingly disappear.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
Tell me about her pregnancy.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
She she's had a good pregnancy, She's just dilated when
she went. We tried to have her stay home, as
she ended up going out.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Right now, her children want to know, where's a mommy again?
Joining me in All Star panel to make sense of
what we know right now.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
But listen, we've all gathered here today because we are
looking for my sister. She is one sentimeter dilated on
October fourth. She has been missing since October ten. My
sister is beautiful, She's energetic. She reaches for this guy
just like a sunflower, which is her favorite.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
You're seeing that from our friends at ABC seven joining
me in addition to Emma's mother Jamie, father Jason, and
sister Abby. Lisette Dean is joining us host of Taste
Files Chicago and you can find her at Tastes Files Chicago.
Speaker 5 (03:34):
Lisette, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Lisa, tell me about the area from which she goes missing.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
This is Gary, Indiana. Is it in the city? Is
it the metropolitan area around the city.
Speaker 6 (03:47):
This is in the city, Nancy, It's in a more
dilapidated area. We're talking about twenty fifth block of Connecticut Street,
which there are a lot of empty buildings around. There's
a lot of empty land and wooded area. Are you there,
So it is, you know, part of the city.
Speaker 7 (04:04):
One of the concerns that.
Speaker 6 (04:05):
Is also very near our expressways here, and of course
we're known as the crossroads of America in this area.
So you know, the thought of maybe her, you know,
being even gone on that highway is actually a concern too.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
You're absolutely correct. Listen to this.
Speaker 8 (04:19):
Emma Baum was last seen near twenty fifth Avenue in
Connecticut Street, about two miles directly south of downtown Gary, Indiana.
It's been described as a dismal and desolate area. Baum
was visiting a home in the neighborhood. Her friends and
family have been there scouring abandoned homes looking for her
and for clues into her disappearance.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Joining me in addition to the family analysta Gian Brian
Fitzgibbons is with us Director Operations USPA Nationwide Security, leading
a team of investigators specializing and finding missing people. You
can find him at USPA security dot com. Brian, thank
(04:57):
you for being with us. I've got all sorts of
thought colliding in my head regarding the disappearance of twenty
five year old, nine month.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
Pregnant Emma Baum.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Number one a case I'm sure you're very familiar with,
and that is the case of Shasta and Dylan Gronie
who go missing out of Cord Delane, Idaho. Why what
does that have to do with Emma's disappearance? If you
could control room, please show me that map again. If
(05:26):
you look down at an aerial off cord delane, you
see nothing but green, densely wooded trees.
Speaker 5 (05:35):
That's all you see. Running through that very rural area.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Heavily forested is an interstate. What happened to these two children?
A guy a perv driving down the interstate gets a
glimpse of Shasta gronee about eleven years old, and little
brother Dylan gets the glimp through the trees of them
(06:01):
at an above ground pool. He goes and lies in
wait kills the whole family to abduct the children, ultimately
killing Dylan as well.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
Shasta lived.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
After our program broadcasts the photos, a woman in a
convenience store spotted Shasta with her attacker and call.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
The tip line.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Okay, the significance of that interstate cannot be emphasized enough,
explain Brian.
Speaker 9 (06:38):
To have a main thoroughfare like that so close to
where Emma was last seeing is very concerning because she
could move at a high rate of speed to get
away from that area. And complicating factor even further is
the phone that she was holding at the time did
not have service and connected.
Speaker 10 (06:59):
So even though it's yes, that's a.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Whole another can of worms the cell phone issue.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
But Brian, just think about it.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Sixty miles an hour if she was in a vehicle,
that's how quickly she'd be gone. At one centimeter dilated
just before her disappearance. Look at Emma five to three,
one hundred and thirty six pounds, nine months pregnant, brown hair,
light brown hair, blondish hair and eyes, brown eyes.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Tattoos you see one right there. Now.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
She loves to dress up and wear different colored wigs.
That's just her. What is she wearing right now? We
cannot project that there you see her and other shots
you may see her with short, light brown hair.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
Just look at her face. If I could show her
face again.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
And specifically, specifically, I want to see a show of
that tattoo along her neck and collar bone, because regardless
of how she's got her hair done, that is something
that will not change. To Jamie, this is Emma's mom.
What is that there? She is with the brown here
(08:15):
with a brown wig. Well, Jamie, what is the tattoo?
It looks like a sunrise?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
It is, Yes, it is a sunrise.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Emma is a natural brunette, but often has her hair
like this. Now the other case, I want to bring
up Gee, Brian Fitzgibbons. We just heard Lizette Gien joining
us from Case Files Chicago, talking about multiple abandoned homes
in the area where she was last visiting friends. In
(08:47):
that neighborhood, there are some abandoned homes, and it brings
to mind a case that I covered extensively, the disappearance
of a Leana Defreese, a schoolgirl on her way to school.
Ultimately found she had been tortured. She was killed in
an abandoned home. Brian fitz Gibbons. Police must go through
(09:13):
every single abandoned home in that area, explain the danger.
Speaker 10 (09:19):
There's a lot of inherent danger there.
Speaker 9 (09:21):
First of all, Gary, Indiana is a dangerous place with
all these abandoned homes. Nancy, you complicate search efforts, particularly
for volunteers.
Speaker 10 (09:33):
Police need to.
Speaker 9 (09:34):
Get on the ground there in that vicinity of twenty
fifth in Connecticut and start searching some of those abandoned
properties immediately.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
How do you go about doing that?
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I mean, this is your expertise. You don't just drive
by for Pete's sake. The problem I see with an
abandoned home is that a victim can be taken in there.
They can be raped, they can be murdered, they can
be held hostage, and no one's going in and out.
People stay away from abandoned homes. Who wants to get
near it. You don't know what's in there. They're deemed unsafe,
So people can be in there and nobody knows.
Speaker 9 (10:06):
Yeah, the city should have access to these abandoned properties
without needing a search warrant. In many cases they will
indeed have that access, so I don't see that being
an issue in this case.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Another case that is startlingly similar is that of a
young mom, a Memphis mom, Eliza Fletcher, outlining her own business.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
Eliza was jogging.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Here, we have Emma innocently visiting a friend and she
goes missing. Eliza goes missing, she was found in an
abandoned home that no one thought to look in. I
would advise some sort of a grid search at this point.
Brian Fitzgibbons, a grid search of this entire area.
Speaker 9 (10:51):
Absolutely, And it's listen, there are quite a few abandoned
homes in that vicinity, but this is not a massive
area around them. The place that she was last seeing,
and we have to think if something did happen to her,
she would have had to be moved very close by
that she wouldn't have been moved too far away.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
To Abby Smith joining me. This is Emma's sister, along
with mom Jamie. Abby, tell me about the phone, the
phone that Emma had.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Em I used a lot of the WIFEI data, so
she should be able to connect to some sort of
cell tower or some sort of area where we'd be
able to determine whether or not that phone was moved.
I thought her last message was at five point thirty
two pm, and then she's just gone completely blank. We
(11:39):
haven't had any contact. No one has said anything. We
haven't come up no Facebook, no Snapchat, no like, no anything,
and we have not found the phone.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Hold on right there, right there, hold on, hold on,
I've got a dissect.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
Everything you're saying, Abby is Emma's guys.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Please help us, Please help us. The family contacted me.
We read about the case online. I have seen no
other media coverage of Emma's case. The family is desperate tonight,
joining together, the dad, the mom, the.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
Sister, begging for help, begging for your help.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I want to give you a couple of numbers. Right
now here is a toll free number. It's one eight hundred,
you tell us one eight hundred, eight eight three, five,
five eight seven repeat one eight hundred, eight eight three, five,
five eight seven.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
You can remain anonymous.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
You can remain anonymous one eight hundred you tell us
eight eight three five five eighty seven. Or there is
a detective work a detective working the case out of
Lake County Homicide Detective Gordon two one nine seven five
five three eight five five two one nine seven five
(12:59):
five three eight five five.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
The mom and dad desperate, desperate for help.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
They have been out searching, they have been out putting
up flyers. Won't you help us help them to Sister Abby?
I want to understand a little bit more about her
cell phone now.
Speaker 5 (13:21):
Was this a prepaid phone? You said she was using
Wi Fi? Was she out of minutes? Help me understand
what's happening. She is going to turn it on.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
I believe she was using the phone company Boost.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Was it the Boost I Boost?
Speaker 4 (13:36):
So like it's one of the prepaid phones. She had
no minutes, so she did actively use the WiFi. She
would connect anywhere she could could so she could keep
in contact with everybody.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Hold on just a second, Abby, you cut out on me,
would you would you just start that over please, I
need to hear every word. Was she using a prepaid phone, yes,
through Boost Mobile? Okay, prepaid phone Boost Mobile. Had she
run out as minutes yes, ma'am. Okay, So let me understand,
(14:12):
Brian Fitzgibbons, I don't have a prepaid phone.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
Explain to me how that works quickly.
Speaker 9 (14:18):
Whether your phone has minutes or not, it's still communicating
to cell phone towers. Anybody who has an old phone
knows you can still make an emergency call from it.
It's not sending as much information, it's not going to
be as precise, but that phone would have still been
communicating with cell phone towers, urgent.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Are you telling me, Brian that even though she was
out of minutes, her phone could still be pinged.
Speaker 10 (14:45):
That is correct, Nancy, That's what I.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
Was getting at.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I'm sorry to cut you off, Abby, but that's what
I'm trying to find out to Hey, with the prepaid
minutes and the blaw and the blaw, I want to
get a ping. I want a ping on this phone.
So do you bel leave Abby? She had simply run
out of minutes? Was the phone cut off or was
the phone dead? At a battery because the prepaid aspect
is irrelevant.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
According to Fitzgibbons.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Well, like you said, she was a girly girl, so
she would not have a dead phone. It just isn't
like her to walk around without a cell phone, especially
being as pregnant as she was. It makes no sense
why she would not have it. Yes, way more responsible
than that.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
When you say she was very responsible to mom Jamie Baum,
what do you mean she was more responsible than that?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
She just was honest. She wouldn't have not called any
of us.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
We talked to her daily.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
She has a huge family and we all stay connected
all the time.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Very responsible, a great mom, pregnant nine months, Brian, I
just want to nail something down, Okay. So if she
had her phone with her, and she, like most of us,
is very careful about keeping it charged, it doesn't matter, Brian,
if she had run out of minutes, is that correct?
Speaker 10 (16:12):
That's correct.
Speaker 9 (16:13):
It changes things a bit because it's not communicating with
the towers as much as a phone that has service.
So on your phone that has service, you might have
one hundred different applications that are communicating out to the
internet and through the tower. All right, when that service
is off. You only have that emergency beacon in GPS
(16:35):
and the ability to make a call to the cell
phone company.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
Back to sister Abby joining us.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Abby my control room came into my ear and told
me that Emma's father, Jason, actually had to walk out
of the room.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
What happened.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
It's a lot emotionally, and this is one of the
hardest things our family is ever dealt with. Own it say,
he wants to admit that he feels broken or unable
to do anything to help return, and it's this is breaking,
It's breaking everybody.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
He's broken. Isn't your dad a war vet?
Speaker 10 (17:16):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (17:17):
Yes? What war was?
Speaker 1 (17:18):
He him?
Speaker 4 (17:19):
Iraq much Iraq.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So this is a man that's faced the enemy far
from home and fought bravely, and he cannot talk about
Emma's disappearance.
Speaker 5 (17:33):
What has this done to him? What has this done
to him?
Speaker 4 (17:36):
He wants to do when it is right, so we
can make sure we have the correct justice. And it's
just really hard emotionally. He feels like his country has
turned to the back on his children, and he has
put all the effort into making it safe for everybody,
and it's not.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
It's still not.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
So it's probably hurting him in a way that none
of us will ever understand, but we see it.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
For those of you joining us and just joining us now,
there is a desperate search right now in Gary, Indiana
and beyond for a twenty five year old pregnant mom,
Emma Baum. Please help us.
Speaker 8 (18:15):
The search for Bomb has been extensive, please say. Three
primary locations have come up in the investigation, and those
searches have been exhausted. K nine's brought in on the
search found nothing. Multiple interviews have been conducted as volunteers
search overgrown fields, knock on doors, and pass out flyers.
Officers are now scouring old video footage in the area
where Bomb went missing.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
A twenty five year old mother, nine months pregnant is missing. Stunningly,
I have learned that the number one cause of death
amongst pregnant women in the US is homicide. It's not
a stroke, it's not blood pressure, it's not a heart attack.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
It's homicide. When I heard that, I actually.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Tracked down the first author, a doctor that wrote that,
because I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
It's I recalled. She was with the New England Journal
of Medicine. I thought, certainly I had it wrong. I didn't.
She didn't. It's true.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Look at Emma Baum, Please look at Emma Bam. I
know we tonight sound angry and agitated because we are.
She cannot just vanish off the face of the earth.
Who saw a nine months pregnant woman, her beautiful Emma.
(19:40):
We know that her phone should still be pinging, but
apparently it's not. We know that, we know there have
been searches with canines they found nothing. Volunteers searching overgrown fields,
knocking on doors, passing out flyers. We know officers say
they are scouring old video footage in the area from
(20:03):
which she went missing. No sign of Emma. I don't
believe in supernatural reasons for disappearances or reappearances. This is
very real, and someone, very real and very much alive
knows where is Emma? Joining me in All Star Panel.
(20:26):
But in addition to Sister Abby, hopefully father Jason can
rejoin us. This has triggered so much for him. He
is in Iraqi Warvette Crime Stories with Nancy, Grace, Mom, Jamie,
(20:52):
and now Sister Page joining us, begging for your help.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Back to Lisette Gien.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Joining us host of Taste Files Chicago, Lisa, I've been
looking at the crime rates.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
Now.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
While Indiana itself has one of the lower national crime rates,
Gary not so much when it comes to violent crime
twenty seventh and violent crime nationally explained.
Speaker 6 (21:23):
The area of Gary is, you know, very it is
very urban, and there is a lot of migration that
comes through from the city of Chicago, people that are relocated.
Speaker 5 (21:32):
There to hear.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
So it's interested and we know that Chicago has some
issues of its own and some of those people come
and bring some of those issues. So we were adding
that onto the already on top of the issues that
Gary's already had. The other problem is is that there
is a flight I mean, people aren't living in Gary
no more. People aren't putting a lot of businesses they're
like they used to, and so people are scavenging for jobs.
(21:56):
People have to move out to fight other jobs. The
school system, there's plenty of schools that are not open anymore.
In fact, one of them that came into question, Pulaski School,
which is a point of interest for police, was set
on fire recently, and so we have in addition to
abandoned buildings, we have abandoned schools now as well. So
(22:17):
that all plays into the part of the crime and
the dilapidation of the city of Gary.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
All of what list just told us is true, but
that leaves me still asking where is this beautiful girl?
Speaker 5 (22:28):
At one centimeter dilation and listen.
Speaker 8 (22:32):
Emma Baum comes from a very close, big family with
brothers and sisters for just about every day of the week.
She loves the closeness they share now as adults, and
she's creating her own large family with three children Camden six,
Lucas three, Amber, two, and her fourth is on the way.
Her sister Abigail says, Emma is energetic, always reaching for
the sky like a sunflower, which is her favorite flower.
(22:55):
Emma is very creative with her appearance, as she usually
wears wigs of all kinds of colors and styles over
her naturally brown hair. She never looks the same for
very long.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Emma's family is desperately pushing for more resources to be
put toward finding Emma Listen.
Speaker 8 (23:13):
Balm's family is pushing for more resources to be given
to the search effort. Sister Abby Smith says the family
has put their own lives at risk searching abandoned houses
and digging dirt piles. According to the Gary police commander.
There are license plate reading cameras and gunshot detection technology,
but no police observation device cameras or pod cameras in
the area Bomb was last seen in. Another sister, Haileybaum,
(23:35):
says she has stopped people in their cars, stop people walking,
talking to everyone possible. They're now turning to the public
for help. Emma's mother, Jamie Baum, says quote, We're always
going to look for I'm never going to stop looking
for her.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Let me understand, Jamie Baum, this is Emma's mother joining us.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
You and Abby have been.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Stopping cars asking if anyone has seen Emma.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Tell me about this.
Speaker 11 (24:02):
We've been out every day, all day for twenty four seven,
walking in the middle of the road, going in houses,
just getting anyone that we can holding her.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Sign up to every windows.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Page bom joining us in addition to Abby and Jamie Page.
Tell me about your family's effort on your own without
police or sheriffs trying to find Emma.
Speaker 12 (24:30):
We've been searching every day. We haven't found any answers,
but we're gonna do keep trying.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Abby, tell me about what you what is going through
your mind when you're out in the middle of the road,
running up to cars saying have you seen my sister
and showing her pictures, hoping.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
That someone is gonna give us an answer, that someone
knows something, that maybe if they run us over, the
look harder because that could be the guy running from
the situation.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Well, I don't understand why you have to be out
going car to car and door to door and in
abandoned homes looking for Emma Jamie. Why are your daughters
doing the police work.
Speaker 13 (25:24):
Well, we have to find her somehow, and if we
have to do it until it's gonna happen, police aren't
out there doing going through houses, so we are.
Speaker 5 (25:35):
Why why aren't they?
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Have you asked them that yes, they said, they said,
they say they're doing their job.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Joining me is Greg Morse, high profile trial lawyer, partner
at the law firm of King and Morse, Palm Beach.
You can find him at kingmorselaw dot com.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
Greg.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Very often you and I are on the different sides
of the fence, but I think you agree with me
that there's an issue here, a disturbing issue. How can
you without antagonizing or agitating law enforcement, how can you
get them to do more? And what do you do
as a family, if you're not getting answers, well.
Speaker 14 (26:17):
It is surprising in this one. I looked into it.
What I haven't read the police have been trying to do.
This country has license plates readers across the entire work.
There's an expressway that borders this There's also a port
to Lake Michiganan that borders the eye. There's a lot
of opportunity for law enforcement to look at technology to
(26:40):
shrink the story as to where this young lady was taken.
Speaker 10 (26:45):
Or where she went.
Speaker 14 (26:47):
I was surprised a lot of the mainstream media has
not given very many details, which police of course hold
back some stuff to verify credibility. I get that, But
when I look at this area, that's unfortunately a common
area in America, low income area that's forgotten. There's a
lot of industry around it. One thing we talk about
(27:10):
cell phone towers. That's just one component of what it says.
Cell phones also routinely their bluetooth will ping off of things.
Speaker 10 (27:19):
Anywhere they are.
Speaker 14 (27:20):
There is a lot of data that law enforcement could
be looking at, and maybe they are. It sounds like
though from the family that they're not. So I don't
know how there hasn't been further information. There's a lot
of resources go to to try to find where this
girl or what happened to lead down that path.
Speaker 15 (27:40):
The family of Emma Bom says the police have not
been helpful in their efforts to find Emma. But police
say they have dedicated their search efforts to the three
primary locations that have come up during the investigation and
are now pivoting the investigation to scour old video footage
in the areas where Emma was less seen.
Speaker 10 (27:57):
The area around Antline Butler's house.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
The area around the Bio Dad's home is the beginning
where she was last seen before according to him, she
left that area. But the family has made it known
that the Geary PD was not helpful to them and
their search for Emma. Now a new detective with Lake
(28:24):
County Homicide. Lake County Homicide is on the case, and
they feel rejuvenated. They feel that someone cares about their case.
Detective Gordon's number is two one nine seven five five
three eight five five repeat two one nine seven five
(28:45):
five three eight five five. When this goes to air tonight,
please have that number emblazoned on a screen so people
can see it. To Jamie Baum, explain to me why
you felt that the Gary, Indiana police their feet.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
You know what. Let me ask you a question.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
According to a report given to me, one of the Gary,
Indiana police said to you, when Emma went missing, well,
if she's dead in a dumpster, you'll never find her.
Did not happen. I'm going to confirm that with you.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yes, ma'am, it did.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
He told he had told my my daughter that if
she was gone to would not be found, and that
hurt my family.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I understand that after that you feel renewed hope because
Lake County Homicide, specifically Detective Gordon.
Speaker 5 (29:50):
Is now on the case.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
May I ask you what led the Gary, Indiana Police
officer to tell you in the midst of the search
of Emma, nine months pregnant, Yeah, she's dead in a dumpster,
you'll never find her.
Speaker 5 (30:02):
What brought that on?
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Somebody had give us some information and I had called
and asked to pass it on to him. I asked
him if he wanted it, I had it all nicely
where he could read it with the times and no
questions asked, No, cutting it.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Off perfectly, here you go.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
And he told me no, not only did he not
need it, that if that was accurate, we would never
be able to find her. If she was done into
a garbage dump.
Speaker 5 (30:42):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
To Brian fits Gibbons, Director Operations USP, a nationwide security
specialty finding missing people. You know, in the midst of
an investigation, I've had victims' families give me a lot
of information and sometimes I knew immediately it was not
going to be pertinent to the investigation, Like two years ago,
(31:09):
she got.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
A hang up phone call, just an example.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
But you don't tell the family, I don't need your information.
She's probably dead in a dumpster and you'll never find her.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
Well what was he thinking?
Speaker 9 (31:23):
Yeah, this defies logic, Nancy, And to the family, I'm
so sorry that, you know, you had to hear that.
Speaker 10 (31:31):
It's very troubling to hear that.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I mean, you take the information and you may believe, well,
this is not pertinent.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
But you don't say that to a victim's family.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
You take the information, you review it, you look at it,
you study it and determine if it is or is
not relevant.
Speaker 5 (31:51):
But to say that to a.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Family with they are the ones out looking in abandoned homes,
they are the ones digging through feels high in grass.
Speaker 5 (32:00):
Many are the ones out in.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
The street asking drivers to help them. Joining me right
now is a renowned forensic psychologist, doctor Sherry Schwartz. You
can find her at panthermitigation dot com. Doctor Sherry. I
recall the feeling of helplessness when my fiance was murdered.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
There was nothing I could do. Nothing. That is a
feeling you never get over.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
This family has felt they had no ally, that no
one was helping them.
Speaker 5 (32:41):
That can destroy you. Saw the father have to get
up and leave.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Jason couldn't even listen because he feels so helpless.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
What is that? How can we fight that so the
family can get back on track and find Emma.
Speaker 7 (33:00):
Well, first of all, I want to say to the family,
how sorry I am for everything that you're going through.
For Jason, for Dad, and for mom, and even for
the siblings. You can see the overwhelming sense of fear
and helplessness and frustration that they can't get the help
that they need from the people that we turn to
(33:20):
to get help. They're being told, well, you know she's dead,
she might be in a dumpster somewhere and you'll never
find her. But what they're failing to understand is that
nobody knows if she's dead, and if they don't go
out and investigate, then we're not going to know. And
it's not just missing Emma. There's a baby possibly right
(33:41):
and infant baby that's missing. So from my position, there's
two people missing here. And for the family, you guys
are doing, from my perspective, everything that you can possibly do.
Continue to stick together, that's really really important, and support
each other. Try to overcome your feelings of guilt because
you're not doing anything wrong and you didn't do anything
(34:03):
to cause this.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Sound guys, this has been dragging on for weeks, the
disappearance of Emma Baum, and in that time, wild fantastical
theories have emerged.
Speaker 5 (34:16):
Listen.
Speaker 8 (34:16):
Bobby Joe sten is eight months pregnant. Lisa Montgomery lies
to her saying she wants to buy one of her puppies.
Montgomery drives from Melbourne, Kansas to Bobby Joe's home in Skidmore, Missouri.
Montgomery strangles the mom to be and cuts the baby
from her stomach. Lisa Montgomery is arrested the next day.
The baby girl lives and is now a teenager living
(34:37):
with her dad.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
You think that's fantastical, it was actually floated as a
defense theory, and the Scott Peterson murder trial dead Lacy
Peterson an unborn child Connor. These fantastical theories are not
helping in the search for Emma, but yet they continue,
(34:58):
such as comparing the case to a teen girl Marlon
at to Lopez.
Speaker 8 (35:03):
Nineteen year old Marlon and Joe Lopez is lured to
the home of Desiree and Clarissa Figueroa with the promise
of baby clothes. Once there, prosecutors say Clarissa got on
top of Marlin, continuing to strangle her for up to
five minutes. After researching how long it would take for
someone to die that way, they allegedly cut the baby
from Marlin's body, stuffed her in a plastic bag in
(35:24):
a hidden garbage can outside. Clarissa then claimed the baby,
with the umbilical cord and placenta still attached, was hers.
Her boyfriend is accused of helping to hide the murder
and evidence at the home. On Friday, October eleventh, Emma Baum.
Speaker 15 (35:37):
Does not reach out to her family members, even though
they are expecting her to come home. Emma has a phone,
but it is out of minutes, telling her mother not
to worry. She is getting minutes put on the phone.
On Friday, Emma.
Speaker 16 (35:49):
Said she would be back on Friday to do something
with her six year old son, Camden. She doesn't show
and doesn't call. The family waits through Saturday for Emma
to come back, and when she isn't home by Sunday,
her mother calls Antoine Butler. Antoine told Emma's mother, Jamie Baum,
that he saw her leave with some girl in a car.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
What look, when my husband has to go out of
town for work or he has to go somewhere, I
think I know where he's going and what he's doing.
Same thing with my children. What does this mean? The BF,
the bio dad boyfriend says he quote saw her leave
(36:28):
with some girl in a car. Li set Gian joining
US investigative reporters, host of Case Files Chicago. Lis set again,
let me understand, that is the level of detail I've
got from the boyfriend that she left with quote some
girl in a car.
Speaker 5 (36:50):
That's it.
Speaker 6 (36:51):
That's it, Nancy. And that's where the frustration lies is
there's very little details.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Okay, hold on just a moment, Jamie Baum, this is
Emma's mother has the.
Speaker 5 (36:58):
Boyfriend I've been helping to look for Emma.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
No, and his family has never reached out either.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yeah, I don't like the way that smells to Greg
Moore joining me, high profile lawyer at King morse A's
a silk stocking law firm out of Palm Beach County, Greg,
when I look at a statement or I evaluate the
credibility of a witness, I look to see if their
(37:26):
statement is quote rich in detail. I can tell you
exactly what my son was wearing when he left for
school this morning, exactly, and I know what vehicle he
was driving.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
I can tell you.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Exactly what my daughter was wearing, what vehicle she was in,
right down to their backpacks, their tote bags, and their
water bottles.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
What is this gibberish? Some girl, a girl in a car?
Speaker 4 (37:51):
What?
Speaker 10 (37:52):
Well?
Speaker 14 (37:53):
Not everybody remembers the same detail as everyone else. However,
a year and practicing law and handling every type of case,
these type of general statements that don't aren't made in completion.
Where the car went here, I knew the person was coming.
The police generally look at that a suspect. They're not credible.
(38:15):
And as I mentioned before, why isn't there information about
this potential car. Why aren't there people looking into where
this car go? It's a very easy thing to follow
for police.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
So of course I hear you say not everybody remembers details.
Speaker 5 (38:30):
Did you say that.
Speaker 10 (38:32):
I did say that, Nancy. Not everybody remembers the same
all differently.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Well, my fiance Keith was murdered decades ago. I can
remember right now what he was wearing, blue Jameson adentim shirt.
Speaker 5 (38:44):
He was going to work on a construction crew.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
He was driving a white Lamon's and as he left
he hung his left arm out the window and wave
goodbye to me. I remember it, crystal clear, It's branded
on my brain.
Speaker 5 (39:01):
Jamie. Do you remember the last time you saw Emma. Yes,
she was wearing what does she say.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Black clothing.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
She had her bag strapped around, she had her purse
strapped around her chest.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
And she gets the huge by until this should be
home tomorrow to make to say.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I understand that you represent a lot of clients, but
that is total BS man that he all he knows
is she left with some.
Speaker 5 (39:35):
Girl in a car technical legal term. I don't know
if you use that.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
At King and Morse, but that's BS and I'm calling
him out on this another thing, another thing I don't like.
Speaker 5 (39:48):
It's the last time she's seen.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
It's at his house, Abby Smith, this is Emma's sister,
isn't that true?
Speaker 5 (39:58):
That is correct?
Speaker 4 (39:59):
Our sister Jaden and Jewel dropped her off, poor sure
at that house to meet her boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Now, I don't want to make an issue of this
because this is a side issue, it's a collateral issue.
But I'm curious. I'm very curious, Abby, this bs boyfriend,
Antoine Butler. Was he supportive of the pregnancy? Was he
helping her? No?
Speaker 4 (40:22):
There had been multiple times that he had asked her
to get an abortion, and that is a bath. He
didn't want it. When mfond out she was going into labor,
she just wanted to go more or less make sure
it confirm and decided she decided that no matter what,
she was going to keep the baby and it was
going to make her a better person. And then if
(40:43):
you didn't want to be a part of it, that
she needed to figure it out prior to fully going
into labor.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
So no money, he's not supporting her, he's not excited
about the baby. He wants her to have an abortion.
You know what, all of that moral flaws. That does
not make him a kidnapper or a murderer. However, I'm
very concerned about the fact, Brian Fitzgibbons uspa that that's
(41:12):
where she's last scene. That doesn't bother you, and nobody
can tell me what kind of car she left in
or where she went or anything.
Speaker 10 (41:21):
It's absolutely disturbing, Nancy.
Speaker 9 (41:23):
A vague statement like that, coupled with, you know, potentially
a motive that he didn't want her to have the baby,
and that she's having this conversation as she's about to
go into labor dilated a centimeter, you know that that
was the purpose of this conversation. So all of this
(41:45):
adds up to be very suspicious.
Speaker 5 (41:47):
Jamie, why did she go over to his place?
Speaker 2 (41:52):
I tried to keep her.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
I tried to ask her not too she wanted to
talk with him over about the baby.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Doctor Serry Schwartz, what we women go through to try
to have the Hallmark Christmas card? You know, we want
the house stick. We want the house. We want the
husband or the partner. We want the children. We want
the turkey dinner, we want the Christmas tree. We want
(42:25):
it the way we have grown up to think it
should be right, And I've got a feeling Emma wanted
that she wanted the bio dad to want the baby
be part of the life, be a family, and was
going over to probably try to convince him of that.
Speaker 7 (42:49):
I'm sure for Emma she probably couldn't imagine that he
didn't feel the same way she felt in terms of
wanting to have this baby and parent this baby. And
so that's one of the difficulties. You're absolutely right, this
is what we crave. She's about to give birth, and
she wants to talk to him and say, don't you
want to be a part of this amazing child's life?
Speaker 2 (43:11):
And then you hurt my baby and when you friend
your shit out.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
The family in so much pain now out flagging down cars,
going to abandoned buildings, walking through fields, begging for volunteers.
Speaker 5 (43:33):
That from our friends at ABC seven.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
The boyfriend, the bio dad in this case, Antoine Butler,
has not been named a formal suspect in the disappearance
of Emma. Emma Baum just twenty five years old, nine
months pregnant, and today I join with her family asking
(43:57):
for your help. Tip line to Detective Gordon two one
nine seven five five three eight five five or one
eight hundred You tell us one eight hundred eight eight three,
five five eight seven. To Emma's mother, Jamie Baum, Jamie,
(44:18):
what is your message tonight?
Speaker 5 (44:21):
If Emma can hear.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
You, baby, we love you, watch your home. We'll miss you.
Speaker 13 (44:27):
If searching for you, we will not stop until we
find you. I love you, everybody loves you. We'll find
you again.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
The tip line one eight hundred You tell us or
two one nine seven five five three eight five five
We wait for justice.
Speaker 5 (44:49):
Two Unfold. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a pregnant mom just twenty
five years old, missing tonight. The family's desperate plea, Where's Emma.
I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm Emma Bamba's mother. I would like my daughter home.
You miss her.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
She's her Baby's need her, her family needs her.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
And if anybody knows anything.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
Or can help search for her, could you please help us?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
We need her home.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
That is Emma Baum's mother A desperate plea to bring
Emma home. Emma nine months pregnant, dilated to one centimeter
to our knowledge. That from our friends at ABC seven.
Joining me right now on All Star panel. But first
I'm going to go to Emma's mother, Jamie Baum. Jamie,
(01:02):
thank you for being with us. Also with Jamie is
Emma's father, Jason Waddell and sister Abby. To all of you,
thank you for being with us. I've just learned about
Emma's disappearance.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
I'm very curious.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I know that she's been gone several weeks at this point.
But the first thing I want to do, Jamie is
get her photo out there. Emma gorgeous, stunning inside and out.
Speaker 5 (01:31):
A real girly girl. She loved putting on makeup and
dressing up.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
She loved different styles, wearing wigs, just everything fashion. Now,
at nine months pregnant, seemingly has vanished straight back out
to Jamie Baum. First of all, tell me about the pregnancy.
(02:00):
Is it correct that she was at one centimeter when
she goes missing?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yes, she was.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Tell me about her pregnancy. Has it been a difficult pregnancy?
Has it been high risk? What can you tell me?
Because I'm trying to imagine. Is she in some hospitals somewhere?
Speaker 5 (02:17):
Has she had the baby? But what is behind all
of this? How do you just vanish at nine months pregnant?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I could hardly walk at six months pregnant with twins,
So how does a pregnant young she's just twenty five,
a young woman just seemingly disappear.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
Tell me about her pregnancy.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
She she's had a good pregnancy, She's just dilated when
she went. We tried to have her stay home, as
she ended up going out.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Right now, her children want to know, where's a mommy again?
Joining me in All Star panel to make sense of
what we know right now.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
But listen, we've all gathered here today because we are
looking for my sister. She is one sentimeter dilated on
October fourth. She has been missing since October ten. My
sister is beautiful, She's energetic. She reaches for this guy
just like a sunflower, which is her favorite.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
You're seeing that from our friends at ABC seven joining
me in addition to Emma's mother Jamie, father Jason, and
sister Abby. Lisette Dean is joining us host of Taste
Files Chicago and you can find her at Tastes Files Chicago.
Speaker 5 (03:34):
Lisette, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Lisa, tell me about the area from which she goes missing.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
This is Gary, Indiana. Is it in the city? Is
it the metropolitan area around the city.
Speaker 6 (03:47):
This is in the city, Nancy, It's in a more
dilapidated area. We're talking about twenty fifth block of Connecticut Street,
which there are a lot of empty buildings around. There's
a lot of empty land and wooded area. Are you there,
So it is, you know, part of the city.
Speaker 7 (04:04):
One of the concerns that.
Speaker 6 (04:05):
Is also very near our expressways here, and of course
we're known as the crossroads of America in this area.
So you know, the thought of maybe her, you know,
being even gone on that highway is actually a concern too.
Speaker 5 (04:17):
You're absolutely correct. Listen to this.
Speaker 8 (04:19):
Emma Baum was last seen near twenty fifth Avenue in
Connecticut Street, about two miles directly south of downtown Gary, Indiana.
It's been described as a dismal and desolate area. Baum
was visiting a home in the neighborhood. Her friends and
family have been there scouring abandoned homes looking for her
and for clues into her disappearance.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Joining me in addition to the family analysta Gian Brian
Fitzgibbons is with us Director Operations USPA Nationwide Security, leading
a team of investigators specializing and finding missing people. You
can find him at USPA security dot com. Brian, thank
(04:57):
you for being with us. I've got all sorts of
thought colliding in my head regarding the disappearance of twenty
five year old, nine month.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
Pregnant Emma Baum.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Number one a case I'm sure you're very familiar with,
and that is the case of Shasta and Dylan Gronie
who go missing out of Cord Delane, Idaho. Why what
does that have to do with Emma's disappearance? If you
could control room, please show me that map again. If
(05:26):
you look down at an aerial off cord delane, you
see nothing but green, densely wooded trees.
Speaker 5 (05:35):
That's all you see. Running through that very rural area.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Heavily forested is an interstate. What happened to these two children?
A guy a perv driving down the interstate gets a
glimpse of Shasta gronee about eleven years old, and little
brother Dylan gets the glimp through the trees of them
(06:01):
at an above ground pool. He goes and lies in
wait kills the whole family to abduct the children, ultimately
killing Dylan as well.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
Shasta lived.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
After our program broadcasts the photos, a woman in a
convenience store spotted Shasta with her attacker and call.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
The tip line.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Okay, the significance of that interstate cannot be emphasized enough,
explain Brian.
Speaker 9 (06:38):
To have a main thoroughfare like that so close to
where Emma was last seeing is very concerning because she
could move at a high rate of speed to get
away from that area. And complicating factor even further is
the phone that she was holding at the time did
not have service and connected.
Speaker 10 (06:59):
So even though it's yes, that's a.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Whole another can of worms the cell phone issue.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
But Brian, just think about it.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Sixty miles an hour if she was in a vehicle,
that's how quickly she'd be gone. At one centimeter dilated
just before her disappearance. Look at Emma five to three,
one hundred and thirty six pounds, nine months pregnant, brown hair,
light brown hair, blondish hair and eyes, brown eyes.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Tattoos you see one right there. Now.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
She loves to dress up and wear different colored wigs.
That's just her. What is she wearing right now? We
cannot project that there you see her and other shots
you may see her with short, light brown hair.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
Just look at her face. If I could show her
face again.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
And specifically, specifically, I want to see a show of
that tattoo along her neck and collar bone, because regardless
of how she's got her hair done, that is something
that will not change. To Jamie, this is Emma's mom.
What is that there? She is with the brown here
(08:15):
with a brown wig. Well, Jamie, what is the tattoo?
It looks like a sunrise?
Speaker 2 (08:20):
It is, Yes, it is a sunrise.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Emma is a natural brunette, but often has her hair
like this. Now the other case, I want to bring
up Gee, Brian Fitzgibbons. We just heard Lizette Gien joining
us from Case Files Chicago, talking about multiple abandoned homes
in the area where she was last visiting friends. In
(08:47):
that neighborhood, there are some abandoned homes, and it brings
to mind a case that I covered extensively, the disappearance
of a Leana Defreese, a schoolgirl on her way to school.
Ultimately found she had been tortured. She was killed in
an abandoned home. Brian fitz Gibbons. Police must go through
(09:13):
every single abandoned home in that area, explain the danger.
Speaker 10 (09:19):
There's a lot of inherent danger there.
Speaker 9 (09:21):
First of all, Gary, Indiana is a dangerous place with
all these abandoned homes. Nancy, you complicate search efforts, particularly
for volunteers.
Speaker 10 (09:33):
Police need to.
Speaker 9 (09:34):
Get on the ground there in that vicinity of twenty
fifth in Connecticut and start searching some of those abandoned
properties immediately.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
How do you go about doing that?
Speaker 1 (09:43):
I mean, this is your expertise. You don't just drive
by for Pete's sake. The problem I see with an
abandoned home is that a victim can be taken in there.
They can be raped, they can be murdered, they can
be held hostage, and no one's going in and out.
People stay away from abandoned homes. Who wants to get
near it. You don't know what's in there. They're deemed unsafe,
So people can be in there and nobody knows.
Speaker 9 (10:06):
Yeah, the city should have access to these abandoned properties
without needing a search warrant. In many cases they will
indeed have that access, so I don't see that being
an issue in this case.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Another case that is startlingly similar is that of a
young mom, a Memphis mom, Eliza Fletcher, outlining her own business.
Speaker 5 (10:31):
Eliza was jogging.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Here, we have Emma innocently visiting a friend and she
goes missing. Eliza goes missing, she was found in an
abandoned home that no one thought to look in. I
would advise some sort of a grid search at this point.
Brian Fitzgibbons, a grid search of this entire area.
Speaker 9 (10:51):
Absolutely, And it's listen, there are quite a few abandoned
homes in that vicinity, but this is not a massive
area around them. The place that she was last seeing,
and we have to think if something did happen to her,
she would have had to be moved very close by
that she wouldn't have been moved too far away.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
To Abby Smith joining me. This is Emma's sister, along
with mom Jamie. Abby, tell me about the phone, the
phone that Emma had.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Em I used a lot of the WIFEI data, so
she should be able to connect to some sort of
cell tower or some sort of area where we'd be
able to determine whether or not that phone was moved.
I thought her last message was at five point thirty
two pm, and then she's just gone completely blank. We
(11:39):
haven't had any contact. No one has said anything. We
haven't come up no Facebook, no Snapchat, no like, no anything,
and we have not found the phone.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Hold on right there, right there, hold on, hold on,
I've got a dissect.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
Everything you're saying, Abby is Emma's guys.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Please help us, Please help us. The family contacted me.
We read about the case online. I have seen no
other media coverage of Emma's case. The family is desperate tonight,
joining together, the dad, the mom, the.
Speaker 5 (12:18):
Sister, begging for help, begging for your help.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I want to give you a couple of numbers. Right
now here is a toll free number. It's one eight hundred,
you tell us one eight hundred, eight eight three, five,
five eight seven repeat one eight hundred, eight eight three, five,
five eight seven.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
You can remain anonymous.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
You can remain anonymous one eight hundred you tell us
eight eight three five five eighty seven. Or there is
a detective work a detective working the case out of
Lake County Homicide Detective Gordon two one nine seven five
five three eight five five two one nine seven five
(12:59):
five three eight five five.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
The mom and dad desperate, desperate for help.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
They have been out searching, they have been out putting
up flyers. Won't you help us help them to Sister Abby?
I want to understand a little bit more about her
cell phone now.
Speaker 5 (13:21):
Was this a prepaid phone? You said she was using
Wi Fi? Was she out of minutes? Help me understand
what's happening. She is going to turn it on.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
I believe she was using the phone company Boost.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Was it the Boost I Boost?
Speaker 4 (13:36):
So like it's one of the prepaid phones. She had
no minutes, so she did actively use the WiFi. She
would connect anywhere she could could so she could keep
in contact with everybody.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Hold on just a second, Abby, you cut out on me,
would you would you just start that over please, I
need to hear every word. Was she using a prepaid phone, yes,
through Boost Mobile? Okay, prepaid phone Boost Mobile. Had she
run out as minutes yes, ma'am. Okay, So let me understand,
(14:12):
Brian Fitzgibbons, I don't have a prepaid phone.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
Explain to me how that works quickly.
Speaker 9 (14:18):
Whether your phone has minutes or not, it's still communicating
to cell phone towers. Anybody who has an old phone
knows you can still make an emergency call from it.
It's not sending as much information, it's not going to
be as precise, but that phone would have still been
communicating with cell phone towers, urgent.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Are you telling me, Brian that even though she was
out of minutes, her phone could still be pinged.
Speaker 10 (14:45):
That is correct, Nancy, That's what I.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
Was getting at.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I'm sorry to cut you off, Abby, but that's what
I'm trying to find out to Hey, with the prepaid
minutes and the blaw and the blaw, I want to
get a ping. I want a ping on this phone.
So do you bel leave Abby? She had simply run
out of minutes? Was the phone cut off or was
the phone dead? At a battery because the prepaid aspect
is irrelevant.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
According to Fitzgibbons.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Well, like you said, she was a girly girl, so
she would not have a dead phone. It just isn't
like her to walk around without a cell phone, especially
being as pregnant as she was. It makes no sense
why she would not have it. Yes, way more responsible
than that.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
When you say she was very responsible to mom Jamie Baum,
what do you mean she was more responsible than that?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
She just was honest. She wouldn't have not called any
of us.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
We talked to her daily.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
She has a huge family and we all stay connected
all the time.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Very responsible, a great mom, pregnant nine months, Brian, I
just want to nail something down, Okay. So if she
had her phone with her, and she, like most of us,
is very careful about keeping it charged, it doesn't matter, Brian,
if she had run out of minutes, is that correct?
Speaker 10 (16:12):
That's correct.
Speaker 9 (16:13):
It changes things a bit because it's not communicating with
the towers as much as a phone that has service.
So on your phone that has service, you might have
one hundred different applications that are communicating out to the
internet and through the tower. All right, when that service
is off. You only have that emergency beacon in GPS
(16:35):
and the ability to make a call to the cell
phone company.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
Back to sister Abby joining us.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Abby my control room came into my ear and told
me that Emma's father, Jason, actually had to walk out
of the room.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
What happened.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
It's a lot emotionally, and this is one of the
hardest things our family is ever dealt with. Own it say,
he wants to admit that he feels broken or unable
to do anything to help return, and it's this is breaking,
It's breaking everybody.
Speaker 5 (17:13):
He's broken. Isn't your dad a war vet?
Speaker 10 (17:16):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (17:17):
Yes? What war was?
Speaker 1 (17:18):
He him?
Speaker 4 (17:19):
Iraq much Iraq.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So this is a man that's faced the enemy far
from home and fought bravely, and he cannot talk about
Emma's disappearance.
Speaker 5 (17:33):
What has this done to him? What has this done
to him?
Speaker 4 (17:36):
He wants to do when it is right, so we
can make sure we have the correct justice. And it's
just really hard emotionally. He feels like his country has
turned to the back on his children, and he has
put all the effort into making it safe for everybody,
and it's not.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
It's still not.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
So it's probably hurting him in a way that none
of us will ever understand, but we see it.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
For those of you joining us and just joining us now,
there is a desperate search right now in Gary, Indiana
and beyond for a twenty five year old pregnant mom,
Emma Baum. Please help us.
Speaker 8 (18:15):
The search for Bomb has been extensive, please say. Three
primary locations have come up in the investigation, and those
searches have been exhausted. K nine's brought in on the
search found nothing. Multiple interviews have been conducted as volunteers
search overgrown fields, knock on doors, and pass out flyers.
Officers are now scouring old video footage in the area
where Bomb went missing.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
A twenty five year old mother, nine months pregnant is missing. Stunningly,
I have learned that the number one cause of death
amongst pregnant women in the US is homicide. It's not
a stroke, it's not blood pressure, it's not a heart attack.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
It's homicide. When I heard that, I actually.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Tracked down the first author, a doctor that wrote that,
because I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
It's I recalled. She was with the New England Journal
of Medicine. I thought, certainly I had it wrong. I didn't.
She didn't. It's true.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Look at Emma Baum, Please look at Emma Bam. I
know we tonight sound angry and agitated because we are.
She cannot just vanish off the face of the earth.
Who saw a nine months pregnant woman, her beautiful Emma.
(19:40):
We know that her phone should still be pinging, but
apparently it's not. We know that, we know there have
been searches with canines they found nothing. Volunteers searching overgrown fields,
knocking on doors, passing out flyers. We know officers say
they are scouring old video footage in the area from
(20:03):
which she went missing. No sign of Emma. I don't
believe in supernatural reasons for disappearances or reappearances. This is
very real, and someone, very real and very much alive
knows where is Emma? Joining me in All Star Panel.
(20:26):
But in addition to Sister Abby, hopefully father Jason can
rejoin us. This has triggered so much for him. He
is in Iraqi Warvette Crime Stories with Nancy, Grace, Mom, Jamie,
(20:52):
and now Sister Page joining us, begging for your help.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Back to Lisette Gien.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Joining us host of Taste Files Chicago, Lisa, I've been
looking at the crime rates.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
Now.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
While Indiana itself has one of the lower national crime rates,
Gary not so much when it comes to violent crime
twenty seventh and violent crime nationally explained.
Speaker 6 (21:23):
The area of Gary is, you know, very it is
very urban, and there is a lot of migration that
comes through from the city of Chicago, people that are relocated.
Speaker 5 (21:32):
There to hear.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
So it's interested and we know that Chicago has some
issues of its own and some of those people come
and bring some of those issues. So we were adding
that onto the already on top of the issues that
Gary's already had. The other problem is is that there
is a flight I mean, people aren't living in Gary
no more. People aren't putting a lot of businesses they're
like they used to, and so people are scavenging for jobs.
(21:56):
People have to move out to fight other jobs. The
school system, there's plenty of schools that are not open anymore.
In fact, one of them that came into question, Pulaski School,
which is a point of interest for police, was set
on fire recently, and so we have in addition to
abandoned buildings, we have abandoned schools now as well. So
(22:17):
that all plays into the part of the crime and
the dilapidation of the city of Gary.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
All of what list just told us is true, but
that leaves me still asking where is this beautiful girl?
Speaker 5 (22:28):
At one centimeter dilation and listen.
Speaker 8 (22:32):
Emma Baum comes from a very close, big family with
brothers and sisters for just about every day of the week.
She loves the closeness they share now as adults, and
she's creating her own large family with three children Camden six,
Lucas three, Amber, two, and her fourth is on the way.
Her sister Abigail says, Emma is energetic, always reaching for
the sky like a sunflower, which is her favorite flower.
(22:55):
Emma is very creative with her appearance, as she usually
wears wigs of all kinds of colors and styles over
her naturally brown hair. She never looks the same for
very long.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Emma's family is desperately pushing for more resources to be
put toward finding Emma Listen.
Speaker 8 (23:13):
Balm's family is pushing for more resources to be given
to the search effort. Sister Abby Smith says the family
has put their own lives at risk searching abandoned houses
and digging dirt piles. According to the Gary police commander.
There are license plate reading cameras and gunshot detection technology,
but no police observation device cameras or pod cameras in
the area Bomb was last seen in. Another sister, Haileybaum,
(23:35):
says she has stopped people in their cars, stop people walking,
talking to everyone possible. They're now turning to the public
for help. Emma's mother, Jamie Baum, says quote, We're always
going to look for I'm never going to stop looking
for her.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Let me understand, Jamie Baum, this is Emma's mother joining us.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
You and Abby have been.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Stopping cars asking if anyone has seen Emma.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Tell me about this.
Speaker 11 (24:02):
We've been out every day, all day for twenty four seven,
walking in the middle of the road, going in houses,
just getting anyone that we can holding her.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Sign up to every windows.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Page bom joining us in addition to Abby and Jamie Page.
Tell me about your family's effort on your own without
police or sheriffs trying to find Emma.
Speaker 12 (24:30):
We've been searching every day. We haven't found any answers,
but we're gonna do keep trying.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
Abby, tell me about what you what is going through
your mind when you're out in the middle of the road,
running up to cars saying have you seen my sister
and showing her pictures, hoping.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
That someone is gonna give us an answer, that someone
knows something, that maybe if they run us over, the
look harder because that could be the guy running from
the situation.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Well, I don't understand why you have to be out
going car to car and door to door and in
abandoned homes looking for Emma Jamie. Why are your daughters
doing the police work.
Speaker 13 (25:24):
Well, we have to find her somehow, and if we
have to do it until it's gonna happen, police aren't
out there doing going through houses, so we are.
Speaker 5 (25:35):
Why why aren't they?
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Have you asked them that yes, they said, they said,
they say they're doing their job.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Joining me is Greg Morse, high profile trial lawyer, partner
at the law firm of King and Morse, Palm Beach.
You can find him at kingmorselaw dot com.
Speaker 5 (25:55):
Greg.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Very often you and I are on the different sides
of the fence, but I think you agree with me
that there's an issue here, a disturbing issue. How can
you without antagonizing or agitating law enforcement, how can you
get them to do more? And what do you do
as a family, if you're not getting answers, well.
Speaker 14 (26:17):
It is surprising in this one. I looked into it.
What I haven't read the police have been trying to do.
This country has license plates readers across the entire work.
There's an expressway that borders this There's also a port
to Lake Michiganan that borders the eye. There's a lot
of opportunity for law enforcement to look at technology to
(26:40):
shrink the story as to where this young lady was taken.
Speaker 10 (26:45):
Or where she went.
Speaker 14 (26:47):
I was surprised a lot of the mainstream media has
not given very many details, which police of course hold
back some stuff to verify credibility. I get that, But
when I look at this area, that's unfortunately a common
area in America, low income area that's forgotten. There's a
lot of industry around it. One thing we talk about
(27:10):
cell phone towers. That's just one component of what it says.
Cell phones also routinely their bluetooth will ping off of things.
Speaker 10 (27:19):
Anywhere they are.
Speaker 14 (27:20):
There is a lot of data that law enforcement could
be looking at, and maybe they are. It sounds like
though from the family that they're not. So I don't
know how there hasn't been further information. There's a lot
of resources go to to try to find where this
girl or what happened to lead down that path.
Speaker 15 (27:40):
The family of Emma Bom says the police have not
been helpful in their efforts to find Emma. But police
say they have dedicated their search efforts to the three
primary locations that have come up during the investigation and
are now pivoting the investigation to scour old video footage
in the areas where Emma was less seen.
Speaker 10 (27:57):
The area around Antline Butler's house.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
The area around the Bio Dad's home is the beginning
where she was last seen before according to him, she
left that area. But the family has made it known
that the Geary PD was not helpful to them and
their search for Emma. Now a new detective with Lake
(28:24):
County Homicide. Lake County Homicide is on the case, and
they feel rejuvenated. They feel that someone cares about their case.
Detective Gordon's number is two one nine seven five five
three eight five five repeat two one nine seven five
(28:45):
five three eight five five. When this goes to air tonight,
please have that number emblazoned on a screen so people
can see it. To Jamie Baum, explain to me why
you felt that the Gary, Indiana police their feet.
Speaker 5 (29:00):
You know what. Let me ask you a question.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
According to a report given to me, one of the Gary,
Indiana police said to you, when Emma went missing, well,
if she's dead in a dumpster, you'll never find her.
Did not happen. I'm going to confirm that with you.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yes, ma'am, it did.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
He told he had told my my daughter that if
she was gone to would not be found, and that
hurt my family.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I understand that after that you feel renewed hope because
Lake County Homicide, specifically Detective Gordon.
Speaker 5 (29:50):
Is now on the case.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
May I ask you what led the Gary, Indiana Police
officer to tell you in the midst of the search
of Emma, nine months pregnant, Yeah, she's dead in a dumpster,
you'll never find her.
Speaker 5 (30:02):
What brought that on?
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Somebody had give us some information and I had called
and asked to pass it on to him. I asked
him if he wanted it, I had it all nicely
where he could read it with the times and no
questions asked, No, cutting it.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Off perfectly, here you go.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
And he told me no, not only did he not
need it, that if that was accurate, we would never
be able to find her. If she was done into
a garbage dump.
Speaker 5 (30:42):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
To Brian fits Gibbons, Director Operations USP, a nationwide security
specialty finding missing people. You know, in the midst of
an investigation, I've had victims' families give me a lot
of information and sometimes I knew immediately it was not
going to be pertinent to the investigation, Like two years ago,
(31:09):
she got.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
A hang up phone call, just an example.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
But you don't tell the family, I don't need your information.
She's probably dead in a dumpster and you'll never find her.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
Well what was he thinking?
Speaker 9 (31:23):
Yeah, this defies logic, Nancy, And to the family, I'm
so sorry that, you know, you had to hear that.
Speaker 10 (31:31):
It's very troubling to hear that.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I mean, you take the information and you may believe, well,
this is not pertinent.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
But you don't say that to a victim's family.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
You take the information, you review it, you look at it,
you study it and determine if it is or is
not relevant.
Speaker 5 (31:51):
But to say that to a.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Family with they are the ones out looking in abandoned homes,
they are the ones digging through feels high in grass.
Speaker 5 (32:00):
Many are the ones out in.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
The street asking drivers to help them. Joining me right
now is a renowned forensic psychologist, doctor Sherry Schwartz. You
can find her at panthermitigation dot com. Doctor Sherry. I
recall the feeling of helplessness when my fiance was murdered.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
There was nothing I could do. Nothing. That is a
feeling you never get over.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
This family has felt they had no ally, that no
one was helping them.
Speaker 5 (32:41):
That can destroy you. Saw the father have to get
up and leave.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Jason couldn't even listen because he feels so helpless.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
What is that? How can we fight that so the
family can get back on track and find Emma.
Speaker 7 (33:00):
Well, first of all, I want to say to the family,
how sorry I am for everything that you're going through.
For Jason, for Dad, and for mom, and even for
the siblings. You can see the overwhelming sense of fear
and helplessness and frustration that they can't get the help
that they need from the people that we turn to
(33:20):
to get help. They're being told, well, you know she's dead,
she might be in a dumpster somewhere and you'll never
find her. But what they're failing to understand is that
nobody knows if she's dead, and if they don't go
out and investigate, then we're not going to know. And
it's not just missing Emma. There's a baby possibly right
(33:41):
and infant baby that's missing. So from my position, there's
two people missing here. And for the family, you guys
are doing, from my perspective, everything that you can possibly do.
Continue to stick together, that's really really important, and support
each other. Try to overcome your feelings of guilt because
you're not doing anything wrong and you didn't do anything
(34:03):
to cause this.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Sound guys, this has been dragging on for weeks, the
disappearance of Emma Baum, and in that time, wild fantastical
theories have emerged.
Speaker 5 (34:16):
Listen.
Speaker 8 (34:16):
Bobby Joe sten is eight months pregnant. Lisa Montgomery lies
to her saying she wants to buy one of her puppies.
Montgomery drives from Melbourne, Kansas to Bobby Joe's home in Skidmore, Missouri.
Montgomery strangles the mom to be and cuts the baby
from her stomach. Lisa Montgomery is arrested the next day.
The baby girl lives and is now a teenager living
(34:37):
with her dad.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
You think that's fantastical, it was actually floated as a
defense theory, and the Scott Peterson murder trial dead Lacy
Peterson an unborn child Connor. These fantastical theories are not
helping in the search for Emma, but yet they continue,
(34:58):
such as comparing the case to a teen girl Marlon
at to Lopez.
Speaker 8 (35:03):
Nineteen year old Marlon and Joe Lopez is lured to
the home of Desiree and Clarissa Figueroa with the promise
of baby clothes. Once there, prosecutors say Clarissa got on
top of Marlin, continuing to strangle her for up to
five minutes. After researching how long it would take for
someone to die that way, they allegedly cut the baby
from Marlin's body, stuffed her in a plastic bag in
(35:24):
a hidden garbage can outside. Clarissa then claimed the baby,
with the umbilical cord and placenta still attached, was hers.
Her boyfriend is accused of helping to hide the murder
and evidence at the home. On Friday, October eleventh, Emma Baum.
Speaker 15 (35:37):
Does not reach out to her family members, even though
they are expecting her to come home. Emma has a phone,
but it is out of minutes, telling her mother not
to worry. She is getting minutes put on the phone.
On Friday, Emma.
Speaker 16 (35:49):
Said she would be back on Friday to do something
with her six year old son, Camden. She doesn't show
and doesn't call. The family waits through Saturday for Emma
to come back, and when she isn't home by Sunday,
her mother calls Antoine Butler. Antoine told Emma's mother, Jamie Baum,
that he saw her leave with some girl in a car.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
What look, when my husband has to go out of
town for work or he has to go somewhere, I
think I know where he's going and what he's doing.
Same thing with my children. What does this mean? The BF,
the bio dad boyfriend says he quote saw her leave
(36:28):
with some girl in a car. Li set Gian joining
US investigative reporters, host of Case Files Chicago. Lis set again,
let me understand, that is the level of detail I've
got from the boyfriend that she left with quote some
girl in a car.
Speaker 5 (36:50):
That's it.
Speaker 6 (36:51):
That's it, Nancy. And that's where the frustration lies is
there's very little details.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Okay, hold on just a moment, Jamie Baum, this is
Emma's mother has the.
Speaker 5 (36:58):
Boyfriend I've been helping to look for Emma.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
No, and his family has never reached out either.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yeah, I don't like the way that smells to Greg
Moore joining me, high profile lawyer at King morse A's
a silk stocking law firm out of Palm Beach County, Greg,
when I look at a statement or I evaluate the
credibility of a witness, I look to see if their
(37:26):
statement is quote rich in detail. I can tell you
exactly what my son was wearing when he left for
school this morning, exactly, and I know what vehicle he
was driving.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
I can tell you.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Exactly what my daughter was wearing, what vehicle she was in,
right down to their backpacks, their tote bags, and their
water bottles.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
What is this gibberish? Some girl, a girl in a car?
Speaker 4 (37:51):
What?
Speaker 10 (37:52):
Well?
Speaker 14 (37:53):
Not everybody remembers the same detail as everyone else. However,
a year and practicing law and handling every type of case,
these type of general statements that don't aren't made in completion.
Where the car went here, I knew the person was coming.
The police generally look at that a suspect. They're not credible.
(38:15):
And as I mentioned before, why isn't there information about
this potential car. Why aren't there people looking into where
this car go? It's a very easy thing to follow
for police.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
So of course I hear you say not everybody remembers details.
Speaker 5 (38:30):
Did you say that.
Speaker 10 (38:32):
I did say that, Nancy. Not everybody remembers the same
all differently.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Well, my fiance Keith was murdered decades ago. I can
remember right now what he was wearing, blue Jameson adentim shirt.
Speaker 5 (38:44):
He was going to work on a construction crew.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
He was driving a white Lamon's and as he left
he hung his left arm out the window and wave
goodbye to me. I remember it, crystal clear, It's branded
on my brain.
Speaker 5 (39:01):
Jamie. Do you remember the last time you saw Emma. Yes,
she was wearing what does she say.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Black clothing.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
She had her bag strapped around, she had her purse
strapped around her chest.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
And she gets the huge by until this should be
home tomorrow to make to say.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I understand that you represent a lot of clients, but
that is total BS man that he all he knows
is she left with some.
Speaker 5 (39:35):
Girl in a car technical legal term. I don't know
if you use that.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
At King and Morse, but that's BS and I'm calling
him out on this another thing, another thing I don't like.
Speaker 5 (39:48):
It's the last time she's seen.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
It's at his house, Abby Smith, this is Emma's sister,
isn't that true?
Speaker 5 (39:58):
That is correct?
Speaker 4 (39:59):
Our sister Jaden and Jewel dropped her off, poor sure
at that house to meet her boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Now, I don't want to make an issue of this
because this is a side issue, it's a collateral issue.
But I'm curious. I'm very curious, Abby, this bs boyfriend,
Antoine Butler. Was he supportive of the pregnancy? Was he
helping her? No?
Speaker 4 (40:22):
There had been multiple times that he had asked her
to get an abortion, and that is a bath. He
didn't want it. When mfond out she was going into labor,
she just wanted to go more or less make sure
it confirm and decided she decided that no matter what,
she was going to keep the baby and it was
going to make her a better person. And then if
(40:43):
you didn't want to be a part of it, that
she needed to figure it out prior to fully going
into labor.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
So no money, he's not supporting her, he's not excited
about the baby. He wants her to have an abortion.
You know what, all of that moral flaws. That does
not make him a kidnapper or a murderer. However, I'm
very concerned about the fact, Brian Fitzgibbons uspa that that's
(41:12):
where she's last scene. That doesn't bother you, and nobody
can tell me what kind of car she left in
or where she went or anything.
Speaker 10 (41:21):
It's absolutely disturbing, Nancy.
Speaker 9 (41:23):
A vague statement like that, coupled with, you know, potentially
a motive that he didn't want her to have the baby,
and that she's having this conversation as she's about to
go into labor dilated a centimeter, you know that that
was the purpose of this conversation. So all of this
(41:45):
adds up to be very suspicious.
Speaker 5 (41:47):
Jamie, why did she go over to his place?
Speaker 2 (41:52):
I tried to keep her.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
I tried to ask her not too she wanted to
talk with him over about the baby.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Doctor Serry Schwartz, what we women go through to try
to have the Hallmark Christmas card? You know, we want
the house stick. We want the house. We want the
husband or the partner. We want the children. We want
the turkey dinner, we want the Christmas tree. We want
(42:25):
it the way we have grown up to think it
should be right, And I've got a feeling Emma wanted
that she wanted the bio dad to want the baby
be part of the life, be a family, and was
going over to probably try to convince him of that.
Speaker 7 (42:49):
I'm sure for Emma she probably couldn't imagine that he
didn't feel the same way she felt in terms of
wanting to have this baby and parent this baby. And
so that's one of the difficulties. You're absolutely right, this
is what we crave. She's about to give birth, and
she wants to talk to him and say, don't you
want to be a part of this amazing child's life?
Speaker 2 (43:11):
And then you hurt my baby and when you friend
your shit out.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
The family in so much pain now out flagging down cars,
going to abandoned buildings, walking through fields, begging for volunteers.
Speaker 5 (43:33):
That from our friends at ABC seven.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
The boyfriend, the bio dad in this case, Antoine Butler,
has not been named a formal suspect in the disappearance
of Emma. Emma Baum just twenty five years old, nine
months pregnant, and today I join with her family asking
(43:57):
for your help. Tip line to Detective Gordon two one
nine seven five five three eight five five or one
eight hundred You tell us one eight hundred eight eight three,
five five eight seven. To Emma's mother, Jamie Baum, Jamie,
(44:18):
what is your message tonight?
Speaker 5 (44:21):
If Emma can hear.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
You, baby, we love you, watch your home. We'll miss you.
Speaker 13 (44:27):
If searching for you, we will not stop until we
find you. I love you, everybody loves you. We'll find
you again.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
The tip line one eight hundred You tell us or
two one nine seven five five three eight five five
We wait for justice.
Speaker 5 (44:49):
Two Unfold. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend
Host
Nancy Grace
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