July 4, 2025 • 49 mins
Bryan Kohberger, in court this week, admits he killed four University of Idaho students: Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin.
Kohberger agreed to a plea deal when the death penalty was taken off the sentencing table. Family members of the victims were divided about the plea, some saying justice for their loved one was denied. During a court hearing, we learned that Bryan Kohberger did not plan to murder four people. He had a target. We don't know who that target was, but reports say Kohberger allotted on paper what happened that night, and after his sentencing, that information could be made public.
Sentencing for Kohberger is later this month.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Philip Dubé - Former Court-Appointed Counsel, Los Angeles County Public Defenders: Criminal & Constitutional Law, Forensics & Mental Health Advocacy
- Dr. Shavaun Scott - Psychotherapist, Best-selling Author of Her Newest Release, a Memoir, "Nightbird," as well as “The Minds of Mass Killers: Understanding and Interrupting the Pathway to Violence” and "Game Addiction: The Experience and the Effects;" FB: Shavaun.scott IN: shavaunscott
- Chris McDonough - Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective 9worked over 300 Homicides in 25-year career and rained the first Native American Homicide Task Force); & Host of YouTube Channel, "The Interview Room"
- Dr. DeWayne Hendrix - Former Warden at the MDC in Brooklyn (also served as a Warden in Sheridan, Oregon), Former Senior Warden with the US Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Prisons, and Founder and President of A New Daylight Foundation; Author: "Who Are You? See it Say it and Seize it;" @anewdaylight (IG) @drdewaynehendrix (LinkedIn) @anewdaylight (X-Twitter)
- Andy Kahan - Director of Victim Services and Advocacy at Crime Stoppers of Houston; Facebook: "Andy Kahan and Crime Stoppers of Houston;" X @AKahanCrimeSto1; Instagram: AndyVictimAdvocate
- Dr. Kendall Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), NEW Podcast --- launching on April 7th, Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University)
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet," and Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;" X: @JoScottForensic
- Germania Rodriguez - Germania Rodriguez, Chief US Reporter, DailyMail.com
- Dave Mack - 'Crime Stories' Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
The prosecutor strikes a deal with the devil, then breaks
down and cries in court. He should be crying. Coburger.
Brian Coburger kills three murders, savages four beautiful Idaho University
(00:29):
students virtually in their sleep, takes a plea deal to
save his own skin? Why was that allowed? Good evening,
I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. I want to
thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Of the emergency.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
You don't know what the emergency one one. I don't
know you're like me, But every time I hear that
nine one one call of the survivors desperately seeking help,
four of their friends, their roommates, massacred, butchered in their sleep.
(01:15):
How in the world did Brian Koberger escape trial in
the last hours? That deal with the devil goes down
in open court. But I want you to see the
prosecutor choking on his own words, breaking down, crying in court.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Watch On November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, excuse me, miss
Coberger entered the residents of eleven twenty two King Road
in Moscow, Idaho. He did that with the intent to kill.
We will not represent that he intended to commit all
of the murders that he did that night, but we
(01:55):
know that that is what resulted, and that he then
killed intentionally, willfully, deliberately, with premeditation and with mouse forethought.
Maddy Mogen Kate, we consolfics, Ethan Chapin and that credal.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Thank you really save it, your tears me nothing. You
stood there and you took the deal over the objections
of some victims' families, and I agree with them. At
(02:36):
first I thought it wouldn't happen. I thought maybe the
media was wrong. Reports could be wrong, couldn't they But
then it went down in the last hours in a
court of law. It's done. It's over. Brian Cooberger will
never face the death penalty. He won't even face trial.
(02:58):
The victims' families will never have answers Straight out to
Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensicks, Jacksonville State University, author of
Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, didn't intend to kill
the victims. What didn't he go in the home with
a k bar knife? I don't know, Joe Scott, do
(03:20):
you go into other people's homes carrying a military style
k bar knife. I don't why did he? Do you
sneak in and break and adore Joe Scott? Do you
sneak around at three or four o'clock in the morning
trying not to wake them up so you can have
the element of surprise on your victims? Any of that?
(03:42):
Do you dress in an outfit that you can shed
the moment you get out of the home like this,
so you leave nothing behind? Do you wear a face
mask in gloves when you encounter the residents of the home? No,
this was his intent. Under the law, there are two
(04:03):
types of intent. Those types of intent evidence are implied
and explicit. Explicit intent is when I say something like
just got Morgan, I'm going to kill you, and then
I shoot you dead. That's explicit. Implicit is intent manifested
(04:24):
by your actions, such as every action conducted by Brian
Coburger didn't intend Just got Morgan? Explain how wrong that is?
No wonder the prosecutor was crying.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
Yeah. The only time I've ever carried a military knife
anywhere was when I was in the army, and I
don't ever really remember uncheathing at all all those years ago.
I had it as part of my equipment, and no,
I would not dress like this unless I had specific
intent to do great bodily harm and bring an instant nancy.
(05:00):
I've talked about this before, an instrument of death with me.
That's what the k bar is made for. And then
you purpose yourself. And the only way I can really
think of this nancy is through my eyes and experience
as a forensic scientist and crime sending investigator death in investigator,
is that I'm trying to create barriers, layers between myself
(05:22):
and the environment in which I'm in. I always go
back to the godfather of forensics, and that is Edmund Lecarte.
Every contact leaves a trace, it's for cards extreme exchange principle.
I think he's probably been exposed to that, at least peripherally.
He understands that construct and so based upon that, he's
(05:43):
trying to keep himself from shedding any kind of evidence
that might fall from him, hair, skin, any fibers off
of his clothing he would commonly wear. And then you
take I don't know, maybe I don't know, let's just
say a Dicky's jumpsuit. Where have I heard that before?
And you pursue yourself in this and then you could
(06:04):
take it off after its bloodship soak Nancy.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Didn't intend, then why did he go into the hum? Hey?
You know what, I just want to watch the prosecutor
choking up again in court and crying.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
As he.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Choked down the words accepting a guilty plea over the
objections of some of the victims' families, who go on
to call the prosecutor a gutless coward who saved a
killer's life. Let's watch this again.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
On November thirteenth, twenty twenty two. Excuse me, miss Coberger
entered the residents of eleven twenty two King Road in Moscow, Idaho.
He did that with the intent to kill. We will
not represent that he intended to commit all of the
murders that he did that night, but we know that
(06:58):
that is what results, and that he then killed intentionally, willfully, deliberately,
with premeditation and with mouse forethought. Manny Mogen Cake. We
consult us, Ethan Chapin and Satak.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Thank you joining us now. Investigative reporter chaef us reporter
for Dailymail dot Com. Harmania Rodriguez, Harmonia. What happened in court?
Speaker 6 (07:28):
This all really went down very quickly, as you mentioned
half of the victims' families disapproved strongly of this deal,
and they said so before yesterday when it all took
place in court, we saw an ice cold Brian Cooberger
get up, swear that he was going to tell the
truth and really simply replying yes. As the judge went
(07:51):
through the plea deal. As you mentioned, he said the
prosecution said they couldn't be sure how many people he
intended to kill, but in his plea deal, Brian Coberger
said he killed these four young people, he meant to
do so, and he is accepting responsibility for it. However, Nancy,
one of the tragic things about this plea deal is
(08:13):
that it did not require Coburger to tell the world
what really happened, and that was one of the issues
that some of the families have with it.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Exactly what happened is that Brian Coberger plaed guilty, escaping
the death penalty. Hermione Rodriguez joining us dalemail dot com.
What were the terms of the deal.
Speaker 6 (08:34):
Basically, the defense just wanted to spare Coberger's life. We've
seen them try everything so in exchange for him pleading
guilty to these four murders with no details he now
gets to spend the rest of his life in prison
for life sentences at a maximum security prison. He doesn't
get to appeal his sentence. However, he gets to live
(08:56):
the rest of his life in this prison as the
Famili's meant. He gets to build relationships, he gets to
read books, and he will not face the death penalty.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Joining me is Chris McDonough, director of the Cold Case Foundation,
former homicide detective, intimately familiar with this case, has been
to the scene multiple times, over three hundred homicides under
his belt. You can find him now on the interview
room on YouTube. Chris McDonough, Really, what did that buy me? Nothing?
(09:41):
Every case gets appealed. Every case, every conviction, every felamy
conviction gets appealed. Done check. So to say oh, we
did it to avoid an appeal, that's let me just say,
legal term crap, because you know every case that is
a conviction appealed. If they cannot afford a new appellant attorney,
(10:04):
the state will give them an appellant attorney for free.
So it's no skin off the state's back for the
to say, oh, now there's no chance of appeal that
bought me nothing. So what do you make of what
the prosecutor did? And I'm sick of looking at him
crying in court. Save the tears. The people that are
(10:27):
crying are the victims' families. So you know what, suck
it up, man, Go ahead me, Donna.
Speaker 7 (10:32):
You know what, Nancy, you are one thousand percent right
once again, this case has been driven by emotional mitigation
for the horror of these events. And I have information
that they met with the AG's office, and the AG's office,
you know, did not invite the families to the table.
They sent that email out with an attachment letter. And
(10:55):
then the discussion was there was half of the victims
families that wanted the deal and have did not. But
the age leaned towards the cost of the trial. Up
to fifteen million dollars was the projection, and so they
went with the state and they left the victims out
(11:16):
to try and part of that deal would be he
would have to write out you know, exactly what he did,
but that information's not available yet and sold.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Chris McDonough, please stop, are you saying, yep? That part
of the deal it was a deal for the defendant,
not for the state or the victims' families. Was that
Brian Coburger right out what he did? In other words,
I committed murder. I committed murder. What write it out
five hundred times and it's all over? Are you serious
(11:48):
that I'm going to believe what Ja Coburger says. That
was the deal. That's what I got out of this.
Speaker 7 (11:54):
Yeah, that's my understanding as well. Nancy. It's horrible. I mean,
you know, you know more than anybody, how many times
would the guys like me come to you and present
a death penalty case and you guys have an ethical
responsibility to file a death penalty enhancement with the idea though,
(12:15):
that you're not going to extract the plea? Hey, in
this case, did this da go into this whole thing
knowing he was going to extract the plea all along?
If so, I just find that's disturbing as well. If
that's the case.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I mean, the reality is that you expect straight out
to Andy Kahn joining me, direct to victim Services and
advocacy crime Stoppers Houston, Texas. They don't play I mean, really, Andy,
out of this. I gave up a jury trial, right
(12:53):
the state, not me? The state gave up a jury trial,
gave up ever giving the family answers about what really happened.
They'll never know. You know, Andy Cohn, in my fiance's case,
he was murdered, as you know, shortly before our wedding.
I know what happened. There was a trial. I know
what happened. He had a summer job on a construction crew.
(13:16):
He was out in a remote rural area building I
think an office building with the crew. He left it
lunchtime to go get soft drinks for everybody else. He
comes back in and an angry employee that had just
been fired sees the company truck and opens fire on
Keith and shoots him five times in the neck, the face,
(13:38):
and the back, and he died. That's what happened. Okay,
it's been twisted around in the MUNI that's what happened.
How do I know that because there was a trial
and they gave all that away so we could get
a I did it. I did it. I did it.
I did it five pages right, one hundred times and
(14:00):
free from Brian Toberger like he's going to tell the truth.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Con I'll tell you, Nancy, I serve on the board
of Parents and murdered children and surviving family members of homicide.
I've been with them for over thirty years. This is
about the ultimate sucker punch that I've seen in my
over thirty years. What's changed in three years. Nothing. The
defense ran out of options. The decision was made three
years ago to seek death. Nothing changed up until the
(14:28):
time the defense waved their white flag and said we
give up, we give up, will cut a deal with that?
There's no mitigating factors. Families for the last believe that
a trial was imminent, and for you to say the
plea deal is in the best interests of everybody. Get real.
To quote someone I know very well that I'm talking
(14:50):
to right now, that's a bunch of bs, and I
have a really big problem with the way this was
handled the plead. Are you sending a form letter that's
really cold, that is about unemotional announcing your decision. Victims'
families deserve to be treated with respect and dignity, and
(15:14):
they deserved better from this prosecution. That death penalty in
this country is so very rarely sought to begin with,
and for those that are truly worthy of the ultimate punishment.
Brian Coburger is at the top of the list right there.
Why even have a death penalty if.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
You're not I mean, you know, That's what I was
just about to ask you, Andy Cohn, because and I'm
not debating death penalty, no death penalty. We have the
death penalty. So if you've committed to having the death penalty,
is there a better case than murdering for innocent, unarmed
(15:52):
University Idaho students asleep or sleepy in their beds of
stock them identifying them, and you, the PERV who have
been googling and searching raping women who are asleep, passed out, comatose.
(16:13):
You fulfill your fantasy and you murder four people, one
of them running down the stairs trying to get away
from you. You chase her down and murder her. So,
if we're going to have the death penalty, what is
that not the poster case for the DP?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Why have the death penalty if you're not going to
have it for Coburger? Basically, the state of Idaho is
basically abdicated to death penalty for any future cases if
you're not going to do it for Brian Coberger. When
you take four lives, especially in the manner that he did,
this is the only possible outcome. The families now get
(16:56):
zero answers, They get nothing out of this, and basically
you're allowing him to call the shots. The evidence was
so clear and convincing. He slaughtered four young college students.
He deprived one, two, three, four people of their lives,
and you're not going to deprive him of him. Where's
(17:18):
the equity in that.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Or at least offer it to a jury. This heaping
pain on the victims' families. Now they have this to
carry with them the rest of their lives that the
state didn't even try. What are they afraid to try?
At Ace? For Pete's sake. That's your job, man, to
get in there and do.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
The best you can win or lose.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
To Joseph Scott Morgan again the host of a hit
series podcast Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, Joe Scott
explained the injuries to the four victims.
Speaker 5 (17:54):
What we know, Nancy, is that these are a collection
of sharp horse injuries. I think people have simply assumed
that they're all stab wounds. We know that based upon
one of the victims, well actually several of them, that
some of these injuries are more than likely in sized
wounds which are slices. So you've got a combination of
(18:16):
both of these. Either way, you have a mill to
blade that is penetrating the skin. Stab wounds the way
we delineate them from in sized wounds is that stab
wounds are deeper than long, and in sized wounds are
longer than deep. So you know, you're a Shakespeare officionado,
(18:37):
you know the what is it death by a thousand cuts?
That idea applies here as well. It's painful, It would
not have gone quickly. This was a very bloody affair,
and you know that. I think therein lies a real tragedy, Nancy,
(18:58):
because he will not be held to account for this
carnage in the sense that we would want him to
be held in account. I'm not talking about the death
penalty here either. I'm talking about having to hear about
this in court and actually what he did so that
it burns into his ears, so that you know, you
(19:20):
think you're reliving it right now. He's you know, in
this kind of fantastic state in his brain. This is
not fantastic, this is reality. He will be able to
sit there and hear what they have to say. But
of course that ain't going to happen. It's never going
to happen now because the DA has offered this fleet.
Well he has been accepted, and we're left wanting correction.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
And I so rarely get to do this. But dying
a thousand deaths is from Shakespeare. Death by a thousand
cuts is from Imperial China. But that said, joining me
now in addition to Andy Kahn and renowned Joe Scott Morgan,
doctor Kendall Crowns is joining US chief medical Examiner Terran County.
(20:11):
That's Fort Worth never lack a business in their morgue.
And he is a star of a new podcast set
to launch, Mayhem in the Morgue. He is an esteemed
lecturer at the Burnette School of Medicine and is joining
us now Doctor Kendall Crowns. Following up on what Joe
Scott Morgan just told us, what actually caused the deaths
(20:34):
of the four students? What did their lungs fill up
with blood and they asphyxiated? Did their heart get slashed?
I mean, how does a knife attack like that end
up actually killing you as opposed to being wounds that
could be repaired in the ear, so.
Speaker 8 (20:52):
In stab wounds and in size wounds, you basically die
from blood loss. They're going to be bleeding from all
these wounds, bleeding out onto the bed or the surface
around them, and also they'll be bleeding internally, so their
chest cavity will fill up with blood and it'll make
it hard for their lungs to expand, which will cause
(21:13):
them to basically suffocate in their own blood. If the
heart is hit, the heart can actually bleed into the
sack surrounding the heart, which is called the paracardial sack,
and that fills up with blood. It makes it hard
for the heart to beat, and you die from heart
failure that way. And then also if there is compromise
where the lungs are stabbed and then it communicates with
(21:34):
the airway, you can be coughing up blood and then
reswallowing the blood and inhaling the blood and dying that way.
So it's a combination of the blood loss with the
possible asshixiation from blood filling the chest cavity, or heart
failure from blood filling the pericardial sack or compromising the heartbeat.
(21:55):
It's any number of things, but it's essentially blood loss.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
Tell me exactly what's going on one of the roommates
has passed and she's strong class.
Speaker 8 (22:07):
Oh and they tell some man in their health close.
Speaker 9 (22:12):
In Moscow, Idaho, with the intent to commit the felony
crime of murder. Yes, did you on November thirteenth, twenty
twenty two, in Leayta County, State of Idaho, kill and
murder Madison Mogan, a human being?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yes?
Speaker 9 (22:33):
And did you do that willfully and lawfully, deliberately and
with premeditation and meliss a forethought?
Speaker 5 (22:38):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Okay, So the state does a deal with the devil,
the devil being Brian Coburger in this scenario, and for
what to get Brian Coberger's version of what happened that night.
There have been a lot of attacks online and call
bombing the judge in this case. The judge cannot force
(23:03):
the state to go forward with the death penalty. The
judge cannot force the state to go forward on any prosecution.
The judge can forward a lack of prosecution to the
state's age to review what's happening within the District Attorney's office,
But the judge can't make the state do anything. The
(23:28):
state can't make the judge do anything. It's a balance
of power so everybody call bombing and emailing the judge.
So just follow this through. Let me bring in Philip Debay, guys,
our renowned attorney in the LA jurisdiction. Debay, Under our law,
(23:51):
the judge is immune from being forced by the state
or the defense to really do anything. For instance, if
the judge had rejected the plea and said, hey, I
want the death penalty to Hay with this, the state
could have actually just gotten another judge to take the plea.
(24:14):
The state cannot force the judge cannot force the state
to seek the death penalty. It doesn't work that way.
Could you explain it, Philip Debate.
Speaker 10 (24:24):
Yes, we have what's called the separation of powers, both
at the state and the federal level, and what that
means is we have three coordinate branches of government. We
have the executive branch, which is basically the governor, the
attorney general, and prosecutors. And of course we have the
legislative branch, which at the federal level is Congress. At
the state level we have the legislature, and certainly at
(24:45):
the local level you have your city council. Additionally, we
have the judiciary, which is our courts, and to ensure
that we have this fair balance of power, neither branch
can encroach upon the powers of either wise you get
anarchy and you get an unjust system. And here what
you have is prosecutors within the executive branch alerting the
(25:10):
judiciary that a settlement has been reached. Yes, the court
can reject that settlement agreement, but the prosecution doesn't have
to go forward with penalty. The prosecution can just go
forward with the guilt phase. And if they would have
commit the jury would have come back guilty on all
four homicides, then Brian Coolberger would have got what we
affectionately call LWOP life without parole. So it was a
(25:34):
lose lose for the court, and sadly it is a
lose lose for the victims' families. On the brighter side
of things, though the case is over, he will never
get out. There will be no appeals. They will never
ever be able to decide whether or not the denial
of this motion was accurate, whether or not the Atkins
(25:55):
denial was accurate regarding.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
His I don't know that. You don't know any of that. Well,
remember when Charles Manson, remember him psycho freaky killer. Yes,
remember that the Manson murders. There's been a lot of
movies about it. Yes, Charles Manson got the death penalty,
didn't he didn't he get the death penalty? That's a yes, yes, okay.
He got sentenced to the death penalty. And what happened
(26:18):
The law changed? The law changed, right, yes, and suddenly
the death penalty was gone, and he came up over
and over and over to be released on parole. Can
you just agree to that much? Debate? I know you'll
want to fight with me, but isn't that much true?
Speaker 5 (26:35):
Yes, it is true?
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Okay, straight to Andy Kahn joining US Director of Victim
Services and Advocacy for Crime Stoppers Houston. Andy Kahn, remember
that moment when all the laws were reversed and Charles
Manson got life? The law was changed. Now, I understand
(27:00):
what debate is saying, and I agree with him, believe
it or not, to a certain extent. But we don't
know what wild hair is going to get up the
rear ends of the Idaho Assembly, do we or the
federal government. We don't know what's going to happen. But
I do know if Coburger is put to death, that
(27:22):
cannot be reversed. You know, who's to say or who's
not to say that in ten years somebody would rule.
I know it sounds crazy that life behind bars is
cruel and unusual. It's already been argued thousands of times
that that's cruel and unusual punishment, life behind bars without parole,
(27:43):
it's already been argued. Who's to say some crazy judge
doesn't go along with it and he walks. No one
is to say that.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
We've seen this time and time again, and I tell
victims families, look, here's reality. Life without parole today doesn't
necessarily mean it's going to be life without parole ten
twenty years from now. And we've seen this repeated over
and over again. The other thing that we are now
seeing right now is so called elderly mercy release, and
(28:15):
particularly in the state of New York, where they're looking
at everyone from the ages of fifty five and over
for potential parole, including a serial killer by the name
of David Berkowitz. So again, it sounds good on the premise,
life without parole. You're never going to breathe free air again.
That's it. You don't have to worry about this appeal.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
That appeal.
Speaker 7 (28:37):
But I have seen it.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
You have seen it. Things change, jurisdictions changed, and this
is why you're going to have to keep a close
abs on this, you know right now today. The bottom
line from my perspective in this case is you let
a cold blood and murderer win. You allowed him to
call the shots, You allowed him to dictate his own terms,
including I don't have to say any thing except for
(29:01):
one word. Yes. That's going to come back and haunt
the state of Idaho, and it's going to come back
and haunt victims' families for years down a road debate.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
I know that you're a great trial lawyer. I know
you in a lot of cases for criminals to walk free.
I can't stop that. I know you've got a great
singing voice since he burst out into song at Christmas
with Oh Holy Night. I know that, but I didn't
know you were a clairvoyant. Please go get your crystal
(29:33):
ball and your turban, because I want to see you
predict that the law won't change regarding life with that
parole or mercy for the elderly and Coburger never walks free.
Okay waiting, Oh, are you going to read the tea leaves?
Would that work? Better for you. It'll never check tarot cards.
Never mind tarot cards, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
It'll never change in the state of Idaho.
Speaker 10 (29:54):
It might if you were a youthful offender at the
time of the crime, but he was, what a ripe
twenty nine years old, so it's not as if he
was deprived of.
Speaker 11 (30:05):
A review of all the youthful factors.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
So you are a clairvoyant pretty much.
Speaker 10 (30:10):
And it's based on statistics. It's based on what's going
on across the country.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
You and Scott Peterson. You and Scott Peterson. Oh yeah,
O J. Simpson and his dream sequence that he really
killed Nicole Brown. I didn't need his dream to tell
me that. So you are of sorts of clairvoyant. Con
I'm giving you the last word on that.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
We're seeing it right now, at least in several states
where they're taking a look at anyone from the ages
of fifty five or older, no matter what the actual
sentence is, for potential senior reliefs based upon the age factor.
So what's happening. You can't say unequivocally that life without
(30:51):
parole for Coleberger means he will never get out, because
we're watching it right now and.
Speaker 11 (30:57):
A greatment of the He only negotiated with you before.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
I was the old person not to negotiating.
Speaker 5 (31:03):
He didn't give us a cooloder, seated.
Speaker 11 (31:05):
To negotiate with us, even pretend he could have just
descended in light. But he didn't even pretend. He basically said,
your guys is input.
Speaker 12 (31:13):
Is it.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
I'm just not reporting it. I want you to hear
from killer Gonsovis's father, who has been very open about
the raw pain he has been enduring since his daughter
was murdered. Take a listen to mister Gonsal.
Speaker 11 (31:54):
He's gonna own this. He's gonna inherit what Thompson did,
and he's the only one that can fix it. He's
the only one who can't make it right. He needs
to protect those other surviving victims and make this person
say that they had nothing to do with it. He
did it solely, He did it all on his own
and nobody else was responsible, and then we won't keep
having this the supporters always saying that he you know,
(32:17):
he got set up, we know what he's planning on doing.
Somebody died, if that died, and he's going to try
to say that you put the blame on that person,
so he's not going to take accountability. And Compson didn't force.
Speaker 7 (32:27):
Him to take accountability.
Speaker 11 (32:28):
He didn't even negotiate it.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
According to the Gunslvices and others, none of them were consulted.
No one had any input. And to the prosecutor who
wrote down crying in court when he did it deal
with the devil, listen.
Speaker 11 (32:43):
And agreement, because the he only negotiated with the earner
A call you over the court.
Speaker 5 (32:48):
I was the offen person, not really negotiating. He didn't
give us the public aggreciated.
Speaker 13 (32:52):
To negotiate with us.
Speaker 11 (32:53):
He even pretend he could have just descended in line,
but he didn't even pretend. He basically said, your.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Guys is straight out to Harmonia Rodriguez, the chief US
reporter for dailymail dot com, what happens now, Harmonia.
Speaker 6 (33:09):
Well, we're gonna have still a sensus in hearing where
hopefully the victims' families will get a chance to tell
Brian Coberger what these horrific crimes have done in their lives.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Coburger should also.
Speaker 6 (33:22):
Have a chance to say anything if he so chooses,
but from what we have seen, he doesn't have much
to say. In court he only said yes with no expression,
and then finally he will be moved to a maximum
security prison for worst of the worst. It's actually where
a lot of uh there's also a death row. It's
where Chad day Bell, the cult leader or also serial killer,
(33:46):
is held and he will be there for his life
according to the plea deal. Though I know, as you said,
there's a possibility that who knows in the future what
could happen, and he could be released the.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Only way he wouldn't be released as if he was
put to death. Okay, because we know, Harmonia, the law
can change, because it has changed post sentencing in murder cases.
And the one I gave you Charles Manson is just
one example. But two special guests joining us. In addition
(34:18):
to Harmonia Rodriguez, doctor Chavon Scott, psychotherapist. She's a best
selling author. Her newest release is night Bird. She also
wrote The Minds of mass Killers, Understanding and Interrupting the
Pathways to Violence, Good Luck with That and Game Addiction,
The Experience and the Effects. Doctor Javon Scott, thank you
(34:41):
for being with us. I asked Harmania Rodriguez from dailymail
dot com what happens now and she was correct. Well,
there's a lot more to that story. This is what happens.
Brian Coburger will do a book deal. The Son of
Sam laws were reversed by the US Supreme Court. All right.
(35:01):
People think, oh, they can't profit, Well, in many jurisdictions
they can unless the state has enacted its own state
claim against it. He'll write a book, there will be
a made for TV movie. There will probably be another
movie about his side of the story, his memoirs. It
(35:22):
will talk about his childhood, how isolated he felt, and
so forth and so on. He's going to have penpals
behind bars. Women are going to try and have conjugal
visits with him. I mean, look at Luigi Mangioni. Right.
There is a group out there called the Proburgers that
support Brian Coburger. They will send him money. He may
(35:45):
even get married behind bars like Youord van der Slut.
He's had I think two children from behind bars. He
has drugs, he has alcohol, he has women, he has parties.
That is what is going to happen now. And I
predict this, doctor Schavon Scott, that one day there will
(36:07):
be a big symposium, a conference of krim pro criminal
procedure students, much like you teach Joe Scott Morgan, and
the guest of honor will be zoomed in from the
penitentiary and that renowned guest will be Brian Coburger, where
(36:29):
he will develop even more groupies. That's what's going to happen. Yeah,
a perverse celebrity. And when we look at it from
the point of view that you just laid.
Speaker 14 (36:39):
Out for us, he has a far richer life than
he ever had free, which is very twisted, but I
think you're right. He's now in the ranks of Bundy,
one of his idols, and it's sickening. It's absolutely sickening
and disturbing. And I can only imagine how the families
(37:02):
feel because they were given no sense of control over
any of this, which I think is really important for
their healing to have a sense of control here.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Why do you say that. I'm very curious because I
distinctly remember. I don't know that the prosecutor does, but
I remember, and Keith's family remembers. Before my fiance's murder
trial ever happened, the prosecutor came and spoke to us
about what he thought was the best course of action
and how we felt about it and what was our input.
(37:34):
I was so out of it. I've just, you know,
hardly even remember all the words that were said. But
I remember the gist of the conversation. I remember what
went down. I remember what Keith's parents said, and we did.
They did have that control to an extent. I mean,
(37:54):
the family doesn't get to call the witnesses or put
up the evidence, but they can steer the ship, right
if they want to. You how does control help anything?
Speaker 14 (38:05):
I think the act of having your loved ones murdered
is I mean, we're also protective of our kids, right,
It's just we want to have some benign, benevolent control
over the way their lives go. We want to protect them,
and to have your kids murdered in this kind of way,
that psychological need is just ripped away from you. And
(38:29):
I think it's just important to feeling some kind of
emotional stability again, to feel like, Okay, this horrible thing happened.
I'm completely devastated. This has changed my identity forever, change
the trajectory of my life. But at least I get
this little bit of power over this, you know, search
(38:51):
for justice, this attempt to get some kind of justice here.
And I think it's a psychological need that most people have.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Andy Kahn, director of Victim Services in Houston through Crime Stoppers. Andy,
what's happened here, if it can even be imagined, is
after losing their child to whom they poured in all
their love, all their money, all their time, their hopes,
their dreams. Yeah, I mean, I've got a life, but
(39:20):
come on, Andy, you know about my twins. They're my
life now, they are my life, No pressure, twins. But
to have that ripped away, number one. Then to have
it ripped away the way that they were murdered, that
they were murdered at all, but then the way that
they were murdered, then the way the victims have been
(39:43):
dragged through the mud is being partiers and horrors and
sluts and blah blah blah. They were out too late,
they were drinking. Oh no, that whole thing happened, and
now this behind their backs. You heard Gon Solvus, He
wasn't consulted.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
What an emotion old roller coaster for all these families.
And you let a wanna be budding, Ted Bundy, I'm
going to be a serial killer, beats you and that's
the reality right there. And you haven't heard the last
of Brian Koberger because guess what exactly what you were
(40:20):
saying earlier. He is going to talk, but he's going
to do it on his own terms. He is going
to write his memoirs. For my knowledge right now, I
don't see anything in the perspective plea deal preventing him
from meeting with journalists, from sending out submissions, from talking
(40:42):
about himself. And as someone who's been basically monitoring what
we now call murder Abelia, and that's items that are
sold from high profile defendants, killers, serial killers on the
open market, he's about to become the new Dar.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
A deal goes down in a court of law, a
deal with the devil. The prosecutor in the Brian Coburger
case actually crying in court, choking on his words, and
he should have according to the victims' families. Joining me
now special guest doctor Dwayne Hendrix. Doctor Hendrix, former warden
at the NBC in Brooklyn that's now Piece of Cake,
(41:21):
but also served as warden and Sheridan, Oregon, former senior
warden with the US Department of Justice, with the Federal
Bureau of prisons, founder president of a New Daylight Foundation,
author of who Are You See It? Say It Sees It?
Doctor Dwayne Hendrix, who shot to fame during the Sean
(41:42):
Combs investigation. Doctor Hendrix, what can you tell me about
where Coburger will be housed? Most likely?
Speaker 12 (41:51):
Yeah, he'll be housed at the Idaho Maximum Security Institution
near COONa, Idaho, which is nearly six hours from where
he brutally murdered those four beautiful souls.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
It has.
Speaker 12 (42:04):
The maximum security prison has capacity of five hundred and
forty nine inmates, and he'll be one of over one
hundred and thirty individuals serving a life sentence without parole.
His day to day activities will be very routine and
focused on stringent security, as maximum security facilities has the
greatest amount of focus on security and restricted movement. And
(42:28):
while the Idaho Department Corrections website doesn't clearly explicitly talk
about what programming is available to those who are incarcerated there,
I would beg to guess that he'll probably be involved
in some cognitive behavior therapy as well as mental health treatment.
And additionally, he will be able to visit on Thursday, Friday, Saturday,
(42:52):
and Sundays, and I was listening to the conversations earlier
with the other guests.
Speaker 5 (42:58):
There is no.
Speaker 12 (42:59):
Conjugal visits at this particular maximum secuity.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
That's what they all say. And yet women get pregnant,
don't they?
Speaker 12 (43:07):
Yes, they do, and typically that's probably due to a
staff member, a volunteer, or someone that's coming or a
contractor coming into those institutions.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
That does happen, Hendrix. Doctor Hendrix, you know how I
feel about you. But I'm calling objection bs because you
know what, I just covered a case where the jail
house seems stress. Please remind me of the name of that. Wait,
it's all coming to me, Casey White. Wasn't that the
(43:36):
defensive Yeah, the jail house seamstress goes in a closet
and has affairs sex with a convicted felon. You think
that was sanctioned. No, it wasn't. And it all ended
at an escape with her helping and a shootout. Thank you,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
It happened.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
It happens all the time where your inmates get women pregnant.
You do know about the birds and the bees, right,
doctor Henderson, You do know where babies come from? I
think you do don't you.
Speaker 12 (44:09):
Yes, ma'am, I do. I have four beautiful children.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
We pick them up at Walmart. Hendrix, you didn't pick
them up at Walmart. Okay. So women get pregnant by inmates,
however you want to claim it happens. It happens. I
don't care. If it's an employee, I don't care. If
it's a warden, I don't care. If it's a seamstress.
It happens. They Isn't it true? They get drugs and
(44:33):
alcohol and other contraband behind bars that say yes, no, Hendrix, Yes,
it is.
Speaker 12 (44:37):
Everything that happens in the community happens behind those walls
in the prison setting. It happens every day, and fortunately
there to be more.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Yes, drugs, every alcohol, sex. They get tablets. We saw sadly.
I hate to bring it up, conjured up for your mind,
but I saw Alex on Double Killer in a shirtless selfie.
Why did I have to see that from behind bars?
Because he had a tablet? They get movie. Now, you
said they have visits and therapy, visits and therapy. Dave
(45:13):
mac joining me Crime Story's investigative reporter. What is he saying?
Speaker 13 (45:17):
What they've got, Nancy is when you get into this
maximum security where Coburger is going to be. He's going
to have a life, Nancy. That's the saddest part of
all of this. He has access to everything that you
would pretty much have on the outside.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
He's got his.
Speaker 13 (45:32):
Own room, he'll have his own private area. He'll have
an hour a day to go out and do whatever
recreation he chooses to do. He can go to the
library and multipurpose room and go outside. He'll have access
to his own TV. He'll have his tablet like you
were talking about. We've seen that so many times he
watched older movies. His vegan diet, Nancy, you know that's
(45:54):
something that hasn't been talking about lately.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Well, it will be totally making me choke again. Wait
a minute up, Wait, doctor Dwayne Hendrix, did you not
hear what Dave mac just said, vegan diet? Yes, you
do know they're going to give him special meals, right Hendrix?
Speaker 12 (46:13):
Yes, if he is not on a flesh diet, if
they call it common fare in the prison setting. Uh.
And basically he'll he'll get vegetables, fruits, and protein.
Speaker 5 (46:24):
He'll he'll be on a no flesh diet. That's what
we would call it. We didn't call it Beacon, We
call it no flesh.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Okay, stop everything, just stop everything, Doctor Kendall Crowns, You,
of course, are a renowned medical examiner, the esteemed lecturer
at the Burnette School of Medicine. You're the star of
a podcast about to launch Mayhem and the Morgue. You've
handled mass killings, You've seen what happens to the victims.
(46:57):
Are you hearing this, Doctor Kendall crown That Brian Coburger
is going to get to watch movies, have visitation therapy
and special meals prepared for him. As he writes his memoirs, thoughts.
Speaker 8 (47:11):
Well, it is the unfortunate way that our legal system,
in our justice system works in which the murderer and
the perpetrator of the violence and the terror on individuals
is allowed to then have a very comfortable life in
a basically a hotel and given anything and everything they want.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
It is what it is, movie night, special vegan meals, visitations, memoirs.
That's what Brian Coburger will be doing behind bars while
the victims' families not only remember their murdered children, but
deal with the pain of being ambushed. According to them,
(47:58):
several of them, they had no idea this plea deal
was in the works and they oppose it. So doctor
Dwayne Hendricks joining us former warden, you didn't tell me
about movie night, did you? Or special meals? What happened
to that? What's he going to do next week? Have
yoga therapy? No? What may be a facial and a massage?
(48:20):
Oh wait, a mud bath? What's next for him? Is
he going to have a secretary taking down his memoirs?
Does he dictates?
Speaker 3 (48:28):
No?
Speaker 12 (48:28):
But he might have an inmate that might want to
take the notes for him. If a selmate might want
to do that. But in terms of just his meals,
I mean, if he doesn't want to eat me, he
doesn't have to. And the crazy thing out of all
of this, most individual serving life sentences. For every year
that they're you know, every year they're incarcerated, you can
(48:50):
typically take two years off their life. And I hope
I'm not speaking out a turn a doc who's the
medical examiner, But if this guy is going to be
living a somewhe healthy lifestyle, writing books, enjoying himself behind bars,
this is another sort of slapping the face to the
families who most of them who objected to this plea
(49:12):
agreement and not him not having the death penalty.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
We wait as justice unfolds, and now we remember an
American hero, Officer Patricio Samaripa, Dallas PD, just thirty two,
shot in the line of duty, survived by grieving wife Christy,
daughter Lincoln, stepson Dylan. American hero Officer Patricio Samaripa. Nancy
(49:38):
gray SONI
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
The prosecutor strikes a deal with the devil, then breaks
down and cries in court. He should be crying. Coburger.
Brian Coburger kills three murders, savages four beautiful Idaho University
(00:29):
students virtually in their sleep, takes a plea deal to
save his own skin? Why was that allowed? Good evening,
I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. I want to
thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Of the emergency.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
You don't know what the emergency one one. I don't
know you're like me, But every time I hear that
nine one one call of the survivors desperately seeking help,
four of their friends, their roommates, massacred, butchered in their sleep.
(01:15):
How in the world did Brian Koberger escape trial in
the last hours? That deal with the devil goes down
in open court. But I want you to see the
prosecutor choking on his own words, breaking down, crying in court.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Watch On November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, excuse me, miss
Coberger entered the residents of eleven twenty two King Road
in Moscow, Idaho. He did that with the intent to kill.
We will not represent that he intended to commit all
of the murders that he did that night, but we
(01:55):
know that that is what resulted, and that he then
killed intentionally, willfully, deliberately, with premeditation and with mouse forethought.
Maddy Mogen Kate, we consolfics, Ethan Chapin and that credal.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Thank you really save it, your tears me nothing. You
stood there and you took the deal over the objections
of some victims' families, and I agree with them. At
(02:36):
first I thought it wouldn't happen. I thought maybe the
media was wrong. Reports could be wrong, couldn't they But
then it went down in the last hours in a
court of law. It's done. It's over. Brian Cooberger will
never face the death penalty. He won't even face trial.
(02:58):
The victims' families will never have answers Straight out to
Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensicks, Jacksonville State University, author of
Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, didn't intend to kill
the victims. What didn't he go in the home with
a k bar knife? I don't know, Joe Scott, do
(03:20):
you go into other people's homes carrying a military style
k bar knife. I don't why did he? Do you
sneak in and break and adore Joe Scott? Do you
sneak around at three or four o'clock in the morning
trying not to wake them up so you can have
the element of surprise on your victims? Any of that?
(03:42):
Do you dress in an outfit that you can shed
the moment you get out of the home like this,
so you leave nothing behind? Do you wear a face
mask in gloves when you encounter the residents of the home? No,
this was his intent. Under the law, there are two
(04:03):
types of intent. Those types of intent evidence are implied
and explicit. Explicit intent is when I say something like
just got Morgan, I'm going to kill you, and then
I shoot you dead. That's explicit. Implicit is intent manifested
(04:24):
by your actions, such as every action conducted by Brian
Coburger didn't intend Just got Morgan? Explain how wrong that is?
No wonder the prosecutor was crying.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
Yeah. The only time I've ever carried a military knife
anywhere was when I was in the army, and I
don't ever really remember uncheathing at all all those years ago.
I had it as part of my equipment, and no,
I would not dress like this unless I had specific
intent to do great bodily harm and bring an instant nancy.
(05:00):
I've talked about this before, an instrument of death with me.
That's what the k bar is made for. And then
you purpose yourself. And the only way I can really
think of this nancy is through my eyes and experience
as a forensic scientist and crime sending investigator death in investigator,
is that I'm trying to create barriers, layers between myself
(05:22):
and the environment in which I'm in. I always go
back to the godfather of forensics, and that is Edmund Lecarte.
Every contact leaves a trace, it's for cards extreme exchange principle.
I think he's probably been exposed to that, at least peripherally.
He understands that construct and so based upon that, he's
(05:43):
trying to keep himself from shedding any kind of evidence
that might fall from him, hair, skin, any fibers off
of his clothing he would commonly wear. And then you
take I don't know, maybe I don't know, let's just
say a Dicky's jumpsuit. Where have I heard that before?
And you pursue yourself in this and then you could
(06:04):
take it off after its bloodship soak Nancy.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Didn't intend, then why did he go into the hum? Hey?
You know what, I just want to watch the prosecutor
choking up again in court and crying.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
As he.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Choked down the words accepting a guilty plea over the
objections of some of the victims' families, who go on
to call the prosecutor a gutless coward who saved a
killer's life. Let's watch this again.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
On November thirteenth, twenty twenty two. Excuse me, miss Coberger
entered the residents of eleven twenty two King Road in Moscow, Idaho.
He did that with the intent to kill. We will
not represent that he intended to commit all of the
murders that he did that night, but we know that
(06:58):
that is what results, and that he then killed intentionally, willfully, deliberately,
with premeditation and with mouse forethought. Manny Mogen Cake. We
consult us, Ethan Chapin and Satak.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Thank you joining us now. Investigative reporter chaef us reporter
for Dailymail dot Com. Harmania Rodriguez, Harmonia. What happened in court?
Speaker 6 (07:28):
This all really went down very quickly, as you mentioned
half of the victims' families disapproved strongly of this deal,
and they said so before yesterday when it all took
place in court, we saw an ice cold Brian Cooberger
get up, swear that he was going to tell the
truth and really simply replying yes. As the judge went
(07:51):
through the plea deal. As you mentioned, he said the
prosecution said they couldn't be sure how many people he
intended to kill, but in his plea deal, Brian Coberger
said he killed these four young people, he meant to
do so, and he is accepting responsibility for it. However, Nancy,
one of the tragic things about this plea deal is
(08:13):
that it did not require Coburger to tell the world
what really happened, and that was one of the issues
that some of the families have with it.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Exactly what happened is that Brian Coberger plaed guilty, escaping
the death penalty. Hermione Rodriguez joining us dalemail dot com.
What were the terms of the deal.
Speaker 6 (08:34):
Basically, the defense just wanted to spare Coberger's life. We've
seen them try everything so in exchange for him pleading
guilty to these four murders with no details he now
gets to spend the rest of his life in prison
for life sentences at a maximum security prison. He doesn't
get to appeal his sentence. However, he gets to live
(08:56):
the rest of his life in this prison as the
Famili's meant. He gets to build relationships, he gets to
read books, and he will not face the death penalty.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Joining me is Chris McDonough, director of the Cold Case Foundation,
former homicide detective, intimately familiar with this case, has been
to the scene multiple times, over three hundred homicides under
his belt. You can find him now on the interview
room on YouTube. Chris McDonough, Really, what did that buy me? Nothing?
(09:41):
Every case gets appealed. Every case, every conviction, every felamy
conviction gets appealed. Done check. So to say oh, we
did it to avoid an appeal, that's let me just say,
legal term crap, because you know every case that is
a conviction appealed. If they cannot afford a new appellant attorney,
(10:04):
the state will give them an appellant attorney for free.
So it's no skin off the state's back for the
to say, oh, now there's no chance of appeal that
bought me nothing. So what do you make of what
the prosecutor did? And I'm sick of looking at him
crying in court. Save the tears. The people that are
(10:27):
crying are the victims' families. So you know what, suck
it up, man, Go ahead me, Donna.
Speaker 7 (10:32):
You know what, Nancy, you are one thousand percent right
once again, this case has been driven by emotional mitigation
for the horror of these events. And I have information
that they met with the AG's office, and the AG's office,
you know, did not invite the families to the table.
They sent that email out with an attachment letter. And
(10:55):
then the discussion was there was half of the victims
families that wanted the deal and have did not. But
the age leaned towards the cost of the trial. Up
to fifteen million dollars was the projection, and so they
went with the state and they left the victims out
(11:16):
to try and part of that deal would be he
would have to write out you know, exactly what he did,
but that information's not available yet and sold.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Chris McDonough, please stop, are you saying, yep? That part
of the deal it was a deal for the defendant,
not for the state or the victims' families. Was that
Brian Coburger right out what he did? In other words,
I committed murder. I committed murder. What write it out
five hundred times and it's all over? Are you serious
(11:48):
that I'm going to believe what Ja Coburger says. That
was the deal. That's what I got out of this.
Speaker 7 (11:54):
Yeah, that's my understanding as well. Nancy. It's horrible. I mean,
you know, you know more than anybody, how many times
would the guys like me come to you and present
a death penalty case and you guys have an ethical
responsibility to file a death penalty enhancement with the idea though,
(12:15):
that you're not going to extract the plea? Hey, in
this case, did this da go into this whole thing
knowing he was going to extract the plea all along?
If so, I just find that's disturbing as well. If
that's the case.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I mean, the reality is that you expect straight out
to Andy Kahn joining me, direct to victim Services and
advocacy crime Stoppers Houston, Texas. They don't play I mean, really, Andy,
out of this. I gave up a jury trial, right
(12:53):
the state, not me? The state gave up a jury trial,
gave up ever giving the family answers about what really happened.
They'll never know. You know, Andy Cohn, in my fiance's case,
he was murdered, as you know, shortly before our wedding.
I know what happened. There was a trial. I know
what happened. He had a summer job on a construction crew.
(13:16):
He was out in a remote rural area building I
think an office building with the crew. He left it
lunchtime to go get soft drinks for everybody else. He
comes back in and an angry employee that had just
been fired sees the company truck and opens fire on
Keith and shoots him five times in the neck, the face,
(13:38):
and the back, and he died. That's what happened. Okay,
it's been twisted around in the MUNI that's what happened.
How do I know that because there was a trial
and they gave all that away so we could get
a I did it. I did it. I did it.
I did it five pages right, one hundred times and
(14:00):
free from Brian Toberger like he's going to tell the truth.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Con I'll tell you, Nancy, I serve on the board
of Parents and murdered children and surviving family members of homicide.
I've been with them for over thirty years. This is
about the ultimate sucker punch that I've seen in my
over thirty years. What's changed in three years. Nothing. The
defense ran out of options. The decision was made three
years ago to seek death. Nothing changed up until the
(14:28):
time the defense waved their white flag and said we
give up, we give up, will cut a deal with that?
There's no mitigating factors. Families for the last believe that
a trial was imminent, and for you to say the
plea deal is in the best interests of everybody. Get real.
To quote someone I know very well that I'm talking
(14:50):
to right now, that's a bunch of bs, and I
have a really big problem with the way this was
handled the plead. Are you sending a form letter that's
really cold, that is about unemotional announcing your decision. Victims'
families deserve to be treated with respect and dignity, and
(15:14):
they deserved better from this prosecution. That death penalty in
this country is so very rarely sought to begin with,
and for those that are truly worthy of the ultimate punishment.
Brian Coburger is at the top of the list right there.
Why even have a death penalty if.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
You're not I mean, you know, That's what I was
just about to ask you, Andy Cohn, because and I'm
not debating death penalty, no death penalty. We have the
death penalty. So if you've committed to having the death penalty,
is there a better case than murdering for innocent, unarmed
(15:52):
University Idaho students asleep or sleepy in their beds of
stock them identifying them, and you, the PERV who have
been googling and searching raping women who are asleep, passed out, comatose.
(16:13):
You fulfill your fantasy and you murder four people, one
of them running down the stairs trying to get away
from you. You chase her down and murder her. So,
if we're going to have the death penalty, what is
that not the poster case for the DP?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Why have the death penalty if you're not going to
have it for Coburger? Basically, the state of Idaho is
basically abdicated to death penalty for any future cases if
you're not going to do it for Brian Coberger. When
you take four lives, especially in the manner that he did,
this is the only possible outcome. The families now get
(16:56):
zero answers, They get nothing out of this, and basically
you're allowing him to call the shots. The evidence was
so clear and convincing. He slaughtered four young college students.
He deprived one, two, three, four people of their lives,
and you're not going to deprive him of him. Where's
(17:18):
the equity in that.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Or at least offer it to a jury. This heaping
pain on the victims' families. Now they have this to
carry with them the rest of their lives that the
state didn't even try. What are they afraid to try?
At Ace? For Pete's sake. That's your job, man, to
get in there and do.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
The best you can win or lose.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
To Joseph Scott Morgan again the host of a hit
series podcast Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, Joe Scott
explained the injuries to the four victims.
Speaker 5 (17:54):
What we know, Nancy, is that these are a collection
of sharp horse injuries. I think people have simply assumed
that they're all stab wounds. We know that based upon
one of the victims, well actually several of them, that
some of these injuries are more than likely in sized
wounds which are slices. So you've got a combination of
(18:16):
both of these. Either way, you have a mill to
blade that is penetrating the skin. Stab wounds the way
we delineate them from in sized wounds is that stab
wounds are deeper than long, and in sized wounds are
longer than deep. So you know, you're a Shakespeare officionado,
(18:37):
you know the what is it death by a thousand cuts?
That idea applies here as well. It's painful, It would
not have gone quickly. This was a very bloody affair,
and you know that. I think therein lies a real tragedy, Nancy,
(18:58):
because he will not be held to account for this
carnage in the sense that we would want him to
be held in account. I'm not talking about the death
penalty here either. I'm talking about having to hear about
this in court and actually what he did so that
it burns into his ears, so that you know, you
(19:20):
think you're reliving it right now. He's you know, in
this kind of fantastic state in his brain. This is
not fantastic, this is reality. He will be able to
sit there and hear what they have to say. But
of course that ain't going to happen. It's never going
to happen now because the DA has offered this fleet.
Well he has been accepted, and we're left wanting correction.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
And I so rarely get to do this. But dying
a thousand deaths is from Shakespeare. Death by a thousand
cuts is from Imperial China. But that said, joining me
now in addition to Andy Kahn and renowned Joe Scott Morgan,
doctor Kendall Crowns is joining US chief medical Examiner Terran County.
(20:11):
That's Fort Worth never lack a business in their morgue.
And he is a star of a new podcast set
to launch, Mayhem in the Morgue. He is an esteemed
lecturer at the Burnette School of Medicine and is joining
us now Doctor Kendall Crowns. Following up on what Joe
Scott Morgan just told us, what actually caused the deaths
(20:34):
of the four students? What did their lungs fill up
with blood and they asphyxiated? Did their heart get slashed?
I mean, how does a knife attack like that end
up actually killing you as opposed to being wounds that
could be repaired in the ear, so.
Speaker 8 (20:52):
In stab wounds and in size wounds, you basically die
from blood loss. They're going to be bleeding from all
these wounds, bleeding out onto the bed or the surface
around them, and also they'll be bleeding internally, so their
chest cavity will fill up with blood and it'll make
it hard for their lungs to expand, which will cause
(21:13):
them to basically suffocate in their own blood. If the
heart is hit, the heart can actually bleed into the
sack surrounding the heart, which is called the paracardial sack,
and that fills up with blood. It makes it hard
for the heart to beat, and you die from heart
failure that way. And then also if there is compromise
where the lungs are stabbed and then it communicates with
(21:34):
the airway, you can be coughing up blood and then
reswallowing the blood and inhaling the blood and dying that way.
So it's a combination of the blood loss with the
possible asshixiation from blood filling the chest cavity, or heart
failure from blood filling the pericardial sack or compromising the heartbeat.
(21:55):
It's any number of things, but it's essentially blood loss.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
Tell me exactly what's going on one of the roommates
has passed and she's strong class.
Speaker 8 (22:07):
Oh and they tell some man in their health close.
Speaker 9 (22:12):
In Moscow, Idaho, with the intent to commit the felony
crime of murder. Yes, did you on November thirteenth, twenty
twenty two, in Leayta County, State of Idaho, kill and
murder Madison Mogan, a human being?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yes?
Speaker 9 (22:33):
And did you do that willfully and lawfully, deliberately and
with premeditation and meliss a forethought?
Speaker 5 (22:38):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Okay, So the state does a deal with the devil,
the devil being Brian Coburger in this scenario, and for
what to get Brian Coberger's version of what happened that night.
There have been a lot of attacks online and call
bombing the judge in this case. The judge cannot force
(23:03):
the state to go forward with the death penalty. The
judge cannot force the state to go forward on any prosecution.
The judge can forward a lack of prosecution to the
state's age to review what's happening within the District Attorney's office,
But the judge can't make the state do anything. The
(23:28):
state can't make the judge do anything. It's a balance
of power so everybody call bombing and emailing the judge.
So just follow this through. Let me bring in Philip Debay, guys,
our renowned attorney in the LA jurisdiction. Debay, Under our law,
(23:51):
the judge is immune from being forced by the state
or the defense to really do anything. For instance, if
the judge had rejected the plea and said, hey, I
want the death penalty to Hay with this, the state
could have actually just gotten another judge to take the plea.
(24:14):
The state cannot force the judge cannot force the state
to seek the death penalty. It doesn't work that way.
Could you explain it, Philip Debate.
Speaker 10 (24:24):
Yes, we have what's called the separation of powers, both
at the state and the federal level, and what that
means is we have three coordinate branches of government. We
have the executive branch, which is basically the governor, the
attorney general, and prosecutors. And of course we have the
legislative branch, which at the federal level is Congress. At
the state level we have the legislature, and certainly at
(24:45):
the local level you have your city council. Additionally, we
have the judiciary, which is our courts, and to ensure
that we have this fair balance of power, neither branch
can encroach upon the powers of either wise you get
anarchy and you get an unjust system. And here what
you have is prosecutors within the executive branch alerting the
(25:10):
judiciary that a settlement has been reached. Yes, the court
can reject that settlement agreement, but the prosecution doesn't have
to go forward with penalty. The prosecution can just go
forward with the guilt phase. And if they would have
commit the jury would have come back guilty on all
four homicides, then Brian Coolberger would have got what we
affectionately call LWOP life without parole. So it was a
(25:34):
lose lose for the court, and sadly it is a
lose lose for the victims' families. On the brighter side
of things, though the case is over, he will never
get out. There will be no appeals. They will never
ever be able to decide whether or not the denial
of this motion was accurate, whether or not the Atkins
(25:55):
denial was accurate regarding.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
His I don't know that. You don't know any of that. Well,
remember when Charles Manson, remember him psycho freaky killer. Yes,
remember that the Manson murders. There's been a lot of
movies about it. Yes, Charles Manson got the death penalty,
didn't he didn't he get the death penalty? That's a yes, yes, okay.
He got sentenced to the death penalty. And what happened
(26:18):
The law changed? The law changed, right, yes, and suddenly
the death penalty was gone, and he came up over
and over and over to be released on parole. Can
you just agree to that much? Debate? I know you'll
want to fight with me, but isn't that much true?
Speaker 5 (26:35):
Yes, it is true?
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Okay, straight to Andy Kahn joining US Director of Victim
Services and Advocacy for Crime Stoppers Houston. Andy Kahn, remember
that moment when all the laws were reversed and Charles
Manson got life? The law was changed. Now, I understand
(27:00):
what debate is saying, and I agree with him, believe
it or not, to a certain extent. But we don't
know what wild hair is going to get up the
rear ends of the Idaho Assembly, do we or the
federal government. We don't know what's going to happen. But
I do know if Coburger is put to death, that
(27:22):
cannot be reversed. You know, who's to say or who's
not to say that in ten years somebody would rule.
I know it sounds crazy that life behind bars is
cruel and unusual. It's already been argued thousands of times
that that's cruel and unusual punishment, life behind bars without parole,
(27:43):
it's already been argued. Who's to say some crazy judge
doesn't go along with it and he walks. No one
is to say that.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
We've seen this time and time again, and I tell
victims families, look, here's reality. Life without parole today doesn't
necessarily mean it's going to be life without parole ten
twenty years from now. And we've seen this repeated over
and over again. The other thing that we are now
seeing right now is so called elderly mercy release, and
(28:15):
particularly in the state of New York, where they're looking
at everyone from the ages of fifty five and over
for potential parole, including a serial killer by the name
of David Berkowitz. So again, it sounds good on the premise,
life without parole. You're never going to breathe free air again.
That's it. You don't have to worry about this appeal.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
That appeal.
Speaker 7 (28:37):
But I have seen it.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
You have seen it. Things change, jurisdictions changed, and this
is why you're going to have to keep a close
abs on this, you know right now today. The bottom
line from my perspective in this case is you let
a cold blood and murderer win. You allowed him to
call the shots, You allowed him to dictate his own terms,
including I don't have to say any thing except for
(29:01):
one word. Yes. That's going to come back and haunt
the state of Idaho, and it's going to come back
and haunt victims' families for years down a road debate.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
I know that you're a great trial lawyer. I know
you in a lot of cases for criminals to walk free.
I can't stop that. I know you've got a great
singing voice since he burst out into song at Christmas
with Oh Holy Night. I know that, but I didn't
know you were a clairvoyant. Please go get your crystal
(29:33):
ball and your turban, because I want to see you
predict that the law won't change regarding life with that
parole or mercy for the elderly and Coburger never walks free.
Okay waiting, Oh, are you going to read the tea leaves?
Would that work? Better for you. It'll never check tarot cards.
Never mind tarot cards, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
It'll never change in the state of Idaho.
Speaker 10 (29:54):
It might if you were a youthful offender at the
time of the crime, but he was, what a ripe
twenty nine years old, so it's not as if he
was deprived of.
Speaker 11 (30:05):
A review of all the youthful factors.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
So you are a clairvoyant pretty much.
Speaker 10 (30:10):
And it's based on statistics. It's based on what's going
on across the country.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
You and Scott Peterson. You and Scott Peterson. Oh yeah,
O J. Simpson and his dream sequence that he really
killed Nicole Brown. I didn't need his dream to tell
me that. So you are of sorts of clairvoyant. Con
I'm giving you the last word on that.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
We're seeing it right now, at least in several states
where they're taking a look at anyone from the ages
of fifty five or older, no matter what the actual
sentence is, for potential senior reliefs based upon the age factor.
So what's happening. You can't say unequivocally that life without
(30:51):
parole for Coleberger means he will never get out, because
we're watching it right now and.
Speaker 11 (30:57):
A greatment of the He only negotiated with you before.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
I was the old person not to negotiating.
Speaker 5 (31:03):
He didn't give us a cooloder, seated.
Speaker 11 (31:05):
To negotiate with us, even pretend he could have just
descended in light. But he didn't even pretend. He basically said,
your guys is input.
Speaker 12 (31:13):
Is it.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
I'm just not reporting it. I want you to hear
from killer Gonsovis's father, who has been very open about
the raw pain he has been enduring since his daughter
was murdered. Take a listen to mister Gonsal.
Speaker 11 (31:54):
He's gonna own this. He's gonna inherit what Thompson did,
and he's the only one that can fix it. He's
the only one who can't make it right. He needs
to protect those other surviving victims and make this person
say that they had nothing to do with it. He
did it solely, He did it all on his own
and nobody else was responsible, and then we won't keep
having this the supporters always saying that he you know,
(32:17):
he got set up, we know what he's planning on doing.
Somebody died, if that died, and he's going to try
to say that you put the blame on that person,
so he's not going to take accountability. And Compson didn't force.
Speaker 7 (32:27):
Him to take accountability.
Speaker 11 (32:28):
He didn't even negotiate it.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
According to the Gunslvices and others, none of them were consulted.
No one had any input. And to the prosecutor who
wrote down crying in court when he did it deal
with the devil, listen.
Speaker 11 (32:43):
And agreement, because the he only negotiated with the earner
A call you over the court.
Speaker 5 (32:48):
I was the offen person, not really negotiating. He didn't
give us the public aggreciated.
Speaker 13 (32:52):
To negotiate with us.
Speaker 11 (32:53):
He even pretend he could have just descended in line,
but he didn't even pretend. He basically said, your.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Guys is straight out to Harmonia Rodriguez, the chief US
reporter for dailymail dot com, what happens now, Harmonia.
Speaker 6 (33:09):
Well, we're gonna have still a sensus in hearing where
hopefully the victims' families will get a chance to tell
Brian Coberger what these horrific crimes have done in their lives.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Coburger should also.
Speaker 6 (33:22):
Have a chance to say anything if he so chooses,
but from what we have seen, he doesn't have much
to say. In court he only said yes with no expression,
and then finally he will be moved to a maximum
security prison for worst of the worst. It's actually where
a lot of uh there's also a death row. It's
where Chad day Bell, the cult leader or also serial killer,
(33:46):
is held and he will be there for his life
according to the plea deal. Though I know, as you said,
there's a possibility that who knows in the future what
could happen, and he could be released the.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Only way he wouldn't be released as if he was
put to death. Okay, because we know, Harmonia, the law
can change, because it has changed post sentencing in murder cases.
And the one I gave you Charles Manson is just
one example. But two special guests joining us. In addition
(34:18):
to Harmonia Rodriguez, doctor Chavon Scott, psychotherapist. She's a best
selling author. Her newest release is night Bird. She also
wrote The Minds of mass Killers, Understanding and Interrupting the
Pathways to Violence, Good Luck with That and Game Addiction,
The Experience and the Effects. Doctor Javon Scott, thank you
(34:41):
for being with us. I asked Harmania Rodriguez from dailymail
dot com what happens now and she was correct. Well,
there's a lot more to that story. This is what happens.
Brian Coburger will do a book deal. The Son of
Sam laws were reversed by the US Supreme Court. All right.
(35:01):
People think, oh, they can't profit, Well, in many jurisdictions
they can unless the state has enacted its own state
claim against it. He'll write a book, there will be
a made for TV movie. There will probably be another
movie about his side of the story, his memoirs. It
(35:22):
will talk about his childhood, how isolated he felt, and
so forth and so on. He's going to have penpals
behind bars. Women are going to try and have conjugal
visits with him. I mean, look at Luigi Mangioni. Right.
There is a group out there called the Proburgers that
support Brian Coburger. They will send him money. He may
(35:45):
even get married behind bars like Youord van der Slut.
He's had I think two children from behind bars. He
has drugs, he has alcohol, he has women, he has parties.
That is what is going to happen now. And I
predict this, doctor Schavon Scott, that one day there will
(36:07):
be a big symposium, a conference of krim pro criminal
procedure students, much like you teach Joe Scott Morgan, and
the guest of honor will be zoomed in from the
penitentiary and that renowned guest will be Brian Coburger, where
(36:29):
he will develop even more groupies. That's what's going to happen. Yeah,
a perverse celebrity. And when we look at it from
the point of view that you just laid.
Speaker 14 (36:39):
Out for us, he has a far richer life than
he ever had free, which is very twisted, but I
think you're right. He's now in the ranks of Bundy,
one of his idols, and it's sickening. It's absolutely sickening
and disturbing. And I can only imagine how the families
(37:02):
feel because they were given no sense of control over
any of this, which I think is really important for
their healing to have a sense of control here.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Why do you say that. I'm very curious because I
distinctly remember. I don't know that the prosecutor does, but
I remember, and Keith's family remembers. Before my fiance's murder
trial ever happened, the prosecutor came and spoke to us
about what he thought was the best course of action
and how we felt about it and what was our input.
(37:34):
I was so out of it. I've just, you know,
hardly even remember all the words that were said. But
I remember the gist of the conversation. I remember what
went down. I remember what Keith's parents said, and we did.
They did have that control to an extent. I mean,
(37:54):
the family doesn't get to call the witnesses or put
up the evidence, but they can steer the ship, right
if they want to. You how does control help anything?
Speaker 14 (38:05):
I think the act of having your loved ones murdered
is I mean, we're also protective of our kids, right,
It's just we want to have some benign, benevolent control
over the way their lives go. We want to protect them,
and to have your kids murdered in this kind of way,
that psychological need is just ripped away from you. And
(38:29):
I think it's just important to feeling some kind of
emotional stability again, to feel like, Okay, this horrible thing happened.
I'm completely devastated. This has changed my identity forever, change
the trajectory of my life. But at least I get
this little bit of power over this, you know, search
(38:51):
for justice, this attempt to get some kind of justice here.
And I think it's a psychological need that most people have.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Andy Kahn, director of Victim Services in Houston through Crime Stoppers. Andy,
what's happened here, if it can even be imagined, is
after losing their child to whom they poured in all
their love, all their money, all their time, their hopes,
their dreams. Yeah, I mean, I've got a life, but
(39:20):
come on, Andy, you know about my twins. They're my
life now, they are my life, No pressure, twins. But
to have that ripped away, number one. Then to have
it ripped away the way that they were murdered, that
they were murdered at all, but then the way that
they were murdered, then the way the victims have been
(39:43):
dragged through the mud is being partiers and horrors and
sluts and blah blah blah. They were out too late,
they were drinking. Oh no, that whole thing happened, and
now this behind their backs. You heard Gon Solvus, He
wasn't consulted.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
What an emotion old roller coaster for all these families.
And you let a wanna be budding, Ted Bundy, I'm
going to be a serial killer, beats you and that's
the reality right there. And you haven't heard the last
of Brian Koberger because guess what exactly what you were
(40:20):
saying earlier. He is going to talk, but he's going
to do it on his own terms. He is going
to write his memoirs. For my knowledge right now, I
don't see anything in the perspective plea deal preventing him
from meeting with journalists, from sending out submissions, from talking
(40:42):
about himself. And as someone who's been basically monitoring what
we now call murder Abelia, and that's items that are
sold from high profile defendants, killers, serial killers on the
open market, he's about to become the new Dar.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
A deal goes down in a court of law, a
deal with the devil. The prosecutor in the Brian Coburger
case actually crying in court, choking on his words, and
he should have according to the victims' families. Joining me
now special guest doctor Dwayne Hendrix. Doctor Hendrix, former warden
at the NBC in Brooklyn that's now Piece of Cake,
(41:21):
but also served as warden and Sheridan, Oregon, former senior
warden with the US Department of Justice, with the Federal
Bureau of prisons, founder president of a New Daylight Foundation,
author of who Are You See It? Say It Sees It?
Doctor Dwayne Hendrix, who shot to fame during the Sean
(41:42):
Combs investigation. Doctor Hendrix, what can you tell me about
where Coburger will be housed? Most likely?
Speaker 12 (41:51):
Yeah, he'll be housed at the Idaho Maximum Security Institution
near COONa, Idaho, which is nearly six hours from where
he brutally murdered those four beautiful souls.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
It has.
Speaker 12 (42:04):
The maximum security prison has capacity of five hundred and
forty nine inmates, and he'll be one of over one
hundred and thirty individuals serving a life sentence without parole.
His day to day activities will be very routine and
focused on stringent security, as maximum security facilities has the
greatest amount of focus on security and restricted movement. And
(42:28):
while the Idaho Department Corrections website doesn't clearly explicitly talk
about what programming is available to those who are incarcerated there,
I would beg to guess that he'll probably be involved
in some cognitive behavior therapy as well as mental health treatment.
And additionally, he will be able to visit on Thursday, Friday, Saturday,
(42:52):
and Sundays, and I was listening to the conversations earlier
with the other guests.
Speaker 5 (42:58):
There is no.
Speaker 12 (42:59):
Conjugal visits at this particular maximum secuity.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
That's what they all say. And yet women get pregnant,
don't they?
Speaker 12 (43:07):
Yes, they do, and typically that's probably due to a
staff member, a volunteer, or someone that's coming or a
contractor coming into those institutions.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
That does happen, Hendrix. Doctor Hendrix, you know how I
feel about you. But I'm calling objection bs because you
know what, I just covered a case where the jail
house seems stress. Please remind me of the name of that. Wait,
it's all coming to me, Casey White. Wasn't that the
(43:36):
defensive Yeah, the jail house seamstress goes in a closet
and has affairs sex with a convicted felon. You think
that was sanctioned. No, it wasn't. And it all ended
at an escape with her helping and a shootout. Thank you,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
It happened.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
It happens all the time where your inmates get women pregnant.
You do know about the birds and the bees, right,
doctor Henderson, You do know where babies come from? I
think you do don't you.
Speaker 12 (44:09):
Yes, ma'am, I do. I have four beautiful children.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
We pick them up at Walmart. Hendrix, you didn't pick
them up at Walmart. Okay. So women get pregnant by inmates,
however you want to claim it happens. It happens. I
don't care. If it's an employee, I don't care. If
it's a warden, I don't care. If it's a seamstress.
It happens. They Isn't it true? They get drugs and
(44:33):
alcohol and other contraband behind bars that say yes, no, Hendrix, Yes,
it is.
Speaker 12 (44:37):
Everything that happens in the community happens behind those walls
in the prison setting. It happens every day, and fortunately
there to be more.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
Yes, drugs, every alcohol, sex. They get tablets. We saw sadly.
I hate to bring it up, conjured up for your mind,
but I saw Alex on Double Killer in a shirtless selfie.
Why did I have to see that from behind bars?
Because he had a tablet? They get movie. Now, you
said they have visits and therapy, visits and therapy. Dave
(45:13):
mac joining me Crime Story's investigative reporter. What is he saying?
Speaker 13 (45:17):
What they've got, Nancy is when you get into this
maximum security where Coburger is going to be. He's going
to have a life, Nancy. That's the saddest part of
all of this. He has access to everything that you
would pretty much have on the outside.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
He's got his.
Speaker 13 (45:32):
Own room, he'll have his own private area. He'll have
an hour a day to go out and do whatever
recreation he chooses to do. He can go to the
library and multipurpose room and go outside. He'll have access
to his own TV. He'll have his tablet like you
were talking about. We've seen that so many times he
watched older movies. His vegan diet, Nancy, you know that's
(45:54):
something that hasn't been talking about lately.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Well, it will be totally making me choke again. Wait
a minute up, Wait, doctor Dwayne Hendrix, did you not
hear what Dave mac just said, vegan diet? Yes, you
do know they're going to give him special meals, right Hendrix?
Speaker 12 (46:13):
Yes, if he is not on a flesh diet, if
they call it common fare in the prison setting. Uh.
And basically he'll he'll get vegetables, fruits, and protein.
Speaker 5 (46:24):
He'll he'll be on a no flesh diet. That's what
we would call it. We didn't call it Beacon, We
call it no flesh.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Okay, stop everything, just stop everything, Doctor Kendall Crowns, You,
of course, are a renowned medical examiner, the esteemed lecturer
at the Burnette School of Medicine. You're the star of
a podcast about to launch Mayhem and the Morgue. You've
handled mass killings, You've seen what happens to the victims.
(46:57):
Are you hearing this, Doctor Kendall crown That Brian Coburger
is going to get to watch movies, have visitation therapy
and special meals prepared for him. As he writes his memoirs, thoughts.
Speaker 8 (47:11):
Well, it is the unfortunate way that our legal system,
in our justice system works in which the murderer and
the perpetrator of the violence and the terror on individuals
is allowed to then have a very comfortable life in
a basically a hotel and given anything and everything they want.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
It is what it is, movie night, special vegan meals, visitations, memoirs.
That's what Brian Coburger will be doing behind bars while
the victims' families not only remember their murdered children, but
deal with the pain of being ambushed. According to them,
(47:58):
several of them, they had no idea this plea deal
was in the works and they oppose it. So doctor
Dwayne Hendricks joining us former warden, you didn't tell me
about movie night, did you? Or special meals? What happened
to that? What's he going to do next week? Have
yoga therapy? No? What may be a facial and a massage?
(48:20):
Oh wait, a mud bath? What's next for him? Is
he going to have a secretary taking down his memoirs?
Does he dictates?
Speaker 3 (48:28):
No?
Speaker 12 (48:28):
But he might have an inmate that might want to
take the notes for him. If a selmate might want
to do that. But in terms of just his meals,
I mean, if he doesn't want to eat me, he
doesn't have to. And the crazy thing out of all
of this, most individual serving life sentences. For every year
that they're you know, every year they're incarcerated, you can
(48:50):
typically take two years off their life. And I hope
I'm not speaking out a turn a doc who's the
medical examiner, But if this guy is going to be
living a somewhe healthy lifestyle, writing books, enjoying himself behind bars,
this is another sort of slapping the face to the
families who most of them who objected to this plea
(49:12):
agreement and not him not having the death penalty.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
We wait as justice unfolds, and now we remember an
American hero, Officer Patricio Samaripa, Dallas PD, just thirty two,
shot in the line of duty, survived by grieving wife Christy,
daughter Lincoln, stepson Dylan. American hero Officer Patricio Samaripa. Nancy
(49:38):
gray SONI
Host
Nancy Grace
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