August 27, 2025 • 49 mins
Only twelve days after Rebecca Haro reports her son's kidnapping and claims she was knocked out in a parking lot while changing the 15-month-old's diaper, both parents of Emmanuel Haro are charged with murder.
They are also charged with making a false police report. However, Rebecca, during a jailhouse interview, maintains her story that she was knocked out and her 7-month-old son, Emmanuel, was abducted.
Jake Haro's lawyer, Vincent Hughes, says he doesn't know where the statement that his client stopped cooperating with detectives came from because he continues to offer Haro to investigators.
Hughes also says Jake Haro wants to cooperate with investigators.
The father of 7-month-old Emmanuel Haro was pulled out of jail in his orange jumpsuit and taken to a remote area of Moreno Valley and was seen in the field with law enforcement. The department implies that while Jake Haro was at the scene, he was not helping in the search.
Rebecca Haro tells a reporter with the Southern California newsgroup she was aware of Jake's previous child cruelty case; however, he treats her and all the kids great and claims "he's a good dad."
She also tells the newsgroup they married in 2021.
Prosecutors in Riverside County are requesting Rebecca and Jake Haro be held on a $1 million dollar bond.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Philip Dubé - Former Court-Appointed Counsel, Los Angeles County Public Defenders: Criminal & Constitutional Law, Forensics & Mental Health Advocacy; X: PhilipCDube, IG: PhilipDube, YouTube: PhilipDube3922
- Caryn Stark - Forensic Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych, FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice
- Steve Fischer - Missing Persons Private Investigator, Search & Rescue Specialist, & Owner of Search Investigations; Steve has been on the scene for the last week, in search of Emmanuel; Facebook: SearchInvestigations, X: @SF_Investigates
- Tom Rawlings - President of Child Welfare & Justice Transformation, Former juvenile court judge, state child advocate, and former Director of Georgia Division of Family and Children Services (DFACS); Board-certified Child Welfare Law Specialist (Child welfare and child protection consultant and attorney, equipping organizations in the US and abroad to protect children from abuse and exploitation) AUTHOR OF “Protecting Other People’s Children: 120 Days to Create a Strong Child Safety Policy,” website: CWJT.US; X @tcrawlings
- Joy Benedict - Reporter from CBS Los Angeles (Joy interviewed both Jake Haro and Rebecca Haro at the scene where Rebecca Haro claimed her son was taken from her car and was in court for the Haro’s arraignment); Instagram / Facebook / X: @joybenedict,
- Dave Mack - Crime Stories Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, A rugged terrain search goes
on for baby Emmanuel, just seven months old, and tonight
the chilling question emerges. Did the baby disappear nine days
(00:23):
before the alleged kidnap when mommy was attacked in the
parking lot at a sporting goods store? Was the baby
really missing nine days before that? I'm Nancy Grace, this
is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being
with us. Where is baby Emmanuel? Just seven months old?
(00:44):
Where is this baby?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
They first got the call from someone of the Big
Five saying, my baby has been taken and she is
frantic and upset. She got out of their pickup trot
when someone attacked her.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Where is seven month old baby? Image? You will questions
swirling straight out, First of all to Joy Benedict joining
us the search going on. Investigative reporter CBSLA Joy tell
me about the search as is taking place.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
This has been a search that has been going on
now since this little boy was reported missing. They have
searched the home, they have searched nearby fields. They have
searched along the highways.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
They have used.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Dogs of varying degrees searching for different things. Life, death,
that you name it. They have searched two counties and
they have still not found this little boy.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Joy Benedict, what counties are they searching? Guys? You are
seeing not only Lee law enforcement fanning out stopping traffic
parts all along the side of this rugged terrain, along
the side of a mountain. There you see the dad
of baby Emmanuel. You mentioned two counties are being searched tonight.
(01:58):
What are they? Joy?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
They are San Bernardino County, where little Emmanuel was first
reported missing on August fourteenth, and then Riverside County, which
is the county in.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Which the Horroes live.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
That video is from Riverside County and not too far
from their palme of the sixty Freeway.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Joining me an all star panel to make sense of
what we know right now. Just so you know, Joy
Benedict has been on the case since the baby first
went missing, reportedly by mom. Let's see a shot of
mom with a black eye please. Mom says she was
at the Big five sporting goods store getting a mouthguard
for her other son. She got out of the vehicle
(02:39):
to change baby Emmanuel's diepee and she was attacked from behind.
I will let someone on the panel explain how she
got a black eye from the front, but that is possible.
That's possible. She says she was attacked from behind. When
she woke up from the attack, I'd like to find
out about any head wounds that would have knocked her unconscious.
(03:00):
But when she woke up from the attack, the baby
is gone. No money is taken. There's no sex attack,
no carjack, just the baby. There are no cameras in
the Big five parking lot, no surveillance. This video is
from our friends at KKEL. No witnesses saw this. That
(03:24):
doesn't mean it didn't happen. But back to the search
is happening right now. Steve Fisher is joining us Missing
Persons private investigator, search and rescue specialist, owner of Search Investigations.
You've been on the scene for the last week. What
do you know?
Speaker 4 (03:42):
So?
Speaker 5 (03:42):
Search has been headed up by San Bernardino's Search and
Rescue team and they've primarily been focused off the sixty Freeway,
which is where we saw the video of Jake. With them,
they've had a cadaverdog out there along with search teams
that are ground searching and detectives that are searching.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
And this is an area that it's rolling hills.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
Uh, you know, brush that's two or three feet high
with trees.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
It's it's a vast area.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
It's a lot of area to cover, but it's also
an area that's fairly easy to search by air.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Steve, tell me about the terrain and how the search
for baby Immanual is being conducted.
Speaker 5 (04:23):
Ground searchers and cadaver dogs and air support and this
these are this is rolling hills with three foot brushes,
but the ground itself is rock hard. So this is
an area that you know, they're I don't think they're
they're using ground penetrating radar or anything like that. This
is going to be a you know, a ground search operation,
and it's not an extremely from a search and rescue
(04:45):
point of view, it's not an extremely difficult search area.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Now I'm looking at the side of a mountain, and
I would find that difficult to search. Guys, you're seeing
video from our friends over at KKW right now, and
you're hearing Steve Fisher, who is an expert in search investigations.
I saw where they were doing what was almost a
shoulder to shoulder search. Why are shoulder to shoulder searches
(05:15):
conducted well?
Speaker 4 (05:16):
So that's increases the probability of.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
Detection, and that so that means they could be looking
for smaller pieces of evidentiary value, not just a manual,
but it could be other things tied that you know,
could be even cell phones or whatever. Also, those line searches,
which are the very tight formed ones, they were very
close into the freeway and so they didn't extend that
(05:43):
out very far. They were using other search and rescue
ground searchers that were doing more of what we call
a hasty search, and they were going further up into
the hill.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
But the detective.
Speaker 5 (05:53):
Is very close, kind of in that ravine that we're
seeing on the screen.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I want to follow up on a few things that
Steve Fisher just told us. At this hour, the search
for baby Emmanuel goes on. Baby Emmanuel, just seven months old,
reportedly goes missing out of a Big five Sporting Goods
parking lot there with his mother. So I find it
(06:20):
very curious that he was quote kidnapped by an unknown
male that said one word ollah. Mommy didn't get a
look at him, Mommy didn't see him here, hear a threat,
smell cigarettes, smell alcohol, smell pot nothing, She heard one
word olla. And she wakes up in the baby's debt
and now Ellie is searching rugged terrain in the Moreno Valley.
(06:46):
Now curious, Dave Mac joining me, Crime Stories investigative reporter, Dave.
Did you hear Steve Fisher state some of the search
was going along close to the free What does that
tell me? That tells me that they're looking to see
if anything was thrown out of a vehicle. We've even
(07:06):
had you and I, Dave Mac, bodies found beside the freeway. Okay,
you called Nicole Level, the little thirteen year old girl
that was kidnapped, abducted by David as Eisenhower, a valedictorian
track star and his friend Natalie Keepers. Her body was
(07:27):
found wipe down with alcohol wipes on the side of
the interstate. So that tells me they're also looking for
something that could have been thrown out of a car
on the side of the interstate, or even God help us,
a baby's body on the side of the interstate. That's
what that tells me. That they're searching near the roadway there.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
And Nancy, you can see along the sixty freeway where
all of the vehicles, all the squad cars, the sheriff's
appe's all of them parked along this area and they're
walking down this The terrain is incredibly rugged. It's very
speek right off the roadway. And if they were to
have God love them. I can't imagine what's going through
(08:10):
their heads as they search. But if a body, a
baby's body, had been tossed, just discarded off the side, Nancy,
it would not just land in the spot, it would
roll and could be underbrush where it couldn't be seen easily.
That's why they're having to walk so close shoulder to
shoulders as they search certain areas of this terrain is just.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Horrible, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
To let me get right back to the search, everybody.
This video for a forensic KKWEN. Some of the drone
video was taken by our guest Steve Fisher. Karen Stark
is with me, a long time colleague and friend, forensic psychologist,
well known TV radio trauma expert, consultant at Karenstark dot com.
That's Karen with a C. If we're trying to find her,
(08:57):
Karen Stark. Dave Mac just brought up a conjured up
a horrible image. I was about to launch into the
importance of shoulder to shoulder searches. You and I covered one.
The first one you and I covered. I don't know
if you remember, this was Schandra Levy. Schandra Levy went
(09:22):
missing the Washington intern and ultimately there were shoulder to
shoulder searches of Rock Creek Park there in d C.
Nothing was found, but on later searches her leggings were found.
So shoulder to shoulder searches or when you're looking for
(09:46):
as Steve Fisher pointed out, you could be looking for leggings.
You could be looking for a baby's shoe. You could
be looking for a hair brett of a missing child.
You could be looking for anything that when everyone is dispersed,
may miss, but shoulder to shoulder. It's excruciating, it's laborious,
it's time intensive, but that's what they're doing to find
(10:08):
any clue, even just a sheet or suck belonging to
baby Emmanuel. But for your purposes. Can you imagine these
LA law enforcement and volunteers being told ahead of time,
brace yourself in case you find a dead infant. I mean,
(10:31):
when I was trying case Is Karen, I would have
nightmares of finding dead bodies because I would be talking
to witnesses all day longed and found dead bodies. I'd
actually dream about it, but this is happening for real.
These LA and volunteers are looking at the prospect of
nearly stepping on a dead.
Speaker 6 (10:49):
Infant, and we can think of anything worse than that, Right, Nancy,
I'm sure everybody listening would agree. What is more horrific
than seeing the baby dead under natural circumstances, let alone
encountering one.
Speaker 7 (11:05):
Under these circumstances.
Speaker 6 (11:06):
And yet it's incredibly important and they know that to
find these babies, and that's why they volunteer. But there
is nothing worse, and they do live with trauma very often,
just as you said you do when you can think
of the bodies they are dealing, in this instance with
a tiny little baby. Even hearing about what he did
(11:30):
to his original baby promise who was Trump, He just
she can't see, she can't walk.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
And when I read.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
About that, I got so upset thinking about a ten
week old baby being abuse like that, and this is
a baby that is likely dead.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
This is something I don't understand. Let me ask Joy.
Joy Benedet is joining us from CBSLA, who's on the
story from the get go. Joy. The baby goes missing.
We're told in the parking lot of Big five Sportings
Good Sporting Goods. How far away is the Reino Valley.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
It's probably about a thirty to forty five minute drive
from where the baby went missing from what was reported
missing from, we should say, but.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
It is not too far from their home. So I'm
trying to figure out how a baby goes missing, vanishes
in a parking lot and now almost an hour away,
we're coming through rugged terrain. This is how we were told.
The baby goes missing.
Speaker 8 (12:43):
Seventy miles east of Los Angeles in Yukaipa, Rebecca Horrow
steps one needs a new mouthpiece for football. She has
to a sporting good store with seven month old Emmanuel.
Rebecca Harrow realizes baby Emmanuel dirtied his diaper, and she
prepares to change his diaper before going into the store.
Rebecca Horrow play baby Emmanuel next to his car seat
to change his diaper when she hears a man say
(13:05):
oh lah. Before she can return the greeting, she has
knocked unconscious. When she wakes up, baby Emmanuel is gone.
Rebecca Harrow races inside the Big Five and asks an
employee if she has seen a baby or a person
with a baby come into the store. Nine one one
is called at seven forty five, where.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Is seven month old baby Emmanuel.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
They have searched the home, they have searched nearby fields,
they have searched along the highways.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
But when she woke up from the attack, the baby
is gone. No money is taken. There's no sex attack,
no carjack. She heard one word ola and she wakes
up in the baby's debt. At this hour, the search
for baby Emmanuel goes on as we speak tonight for
seven month old baby Emmanuel and joining me right now.
(13:51):
Doctor Thomas Con, Chief Medical Examiner District to Medical Examiner's Office,
State of Florida Forensic Pathologists talks to cologist neuropathologist, Doctor Coin,
thank you for being with us. I heard Joy Benedict
and Steve Fisher state that in addition to shoulder to
(14:14):
shoulder searches for baby emmanual and very rough terrain, cadaver
dogs have been brought out. Cadaver dogs look only for
human tissue from a deceased human. So my question is this,
doctor Con, the dogs are not looking for a live baby.
(14:39):
How quickly after a child is killed would decomp begin.
What is it so quickly after death that cadaver dogs
can smell?
Speaker 9 (14:55):
Well, The process of decomposition starts immediately after we die.
Once our immune system is basically shut down, as our
blood stops circulating all that bacteria that's withinside our internal cavities,
our intestines begins to digest us and that process called
puture faction, produces a number of volatile chemicals as it
begins to digest our blood, our body fat. And those
(15:18):
are the chemicals, those organic chemicals that the dogs pick up,
and those are what the dogs are actually trained on.
These dogs will actually be trained on the scent of
decomposing remains at various stages of decomposition, and they can
pick up that sound, excuse me, that smell very readily.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Doctor Cooin. I'm sure that you are used to a
constant influx to stream of dead bodies, including children, babies,
they at accidental, natural cause, undetermined, or homicide. But when
I look at this baby's picture, control them. I'd like
to see baby Hero. I want to see Emmanuel. When
(16:03):
I look at baby Emmanuel, he's just seven months old,
I just want to hold him. I want to bring
him home. With me. I want to feed him, I
want him to help get well. I want to see
one picture of this baby with a smile, just one.
I have come through every photo I have of this baby,
and not one photo is this baby smiling. Not one.
(16:25):
I'm not the only one that's noticed on Twitter, on Facebook,
everywhere instant everyone's saying does the baby never smile? Why?
But doctor Thomas Coin, when I hear what you're saying
about putrification, and he says something about the body fluids
(16:46):
start digesting the baby, and I look at this photos,
I don't know how you do it everyday. Coin, It's hard.
Speaker 9 (16:56):
Those are the hardest cases that I have to be
able to tom these cases, in particular as a father myself.
You have to get good at talking your emotions inside
and doing the job that's necessary so you can help
bring justice to these poor kids.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
What were you saying about the body's fluids actually digest
the body? Is that what you said?
Speaker 9 (17:20):
Yeah? So what happens is, you know, our intestines, especially
they're aligned with bacteria, and that bacteria will literally begin
to digest our tissues. Because now that we're dead, our
own bodies immune system isn't there to protect us, and
so that bacteria can just move all throughout our body,
(17:42):
digesting our tissues, and also as our tissues break down
enzymes within our own our own body tissues. Now I
can also aid in that process. So over time, especially
if this body is outside, that process will proceed pretty rapidly.
So you within thirty minutes or so of a body
(18:02):
dying and decomposition starting, there should be enough volatilized organic
compounds that any dog can pick up that scent.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Doctor Coin, If I could just keep you for just
a few more moments, I want you. I want to
talk to you about baby Emmanuel's sister. Baby Emmanual's sister. Yes,
he has a sister. This tiny little boy has a sister,
(18:34):
doctor Coin. And the sister cannot speak, The sister cannot walk,
the sister cannot see listen.
Speaker 8 (18:48):
The sister of Emmanuel was so badly injured at just
ten weeks she was left unable to see, talk, or walk.
The little girl is being raised by her adoptive mother,
who renamed the child Promised Faith. At just ten weeks old,
Promised had an acute fractured rib, healing fractures of six ribs,
(19:08):
a skull fracture, a brain hemorrhage, swelling of the neck, healing,
fractured leg bone, and nutritional neglect. Caro and his former
partner Vanessa Alvina were both charged with child cruelty in
twenty eighteen, to which Horrow pleading guilty.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Joy benedet de joining US investigative reporter. Are you telling
me that baby Immanuel was living in the home with
the man that did that to Emmanual's sister. She can't see,
(19:45):
she can't walk because of the severe baiting.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Her father did plead guilty to wilful child cruelty because
of that case. I am also told by his attorney
he represented him at the time, that he completed fifty
five weeks of parenting classes afterwards, and he was currently
on probation for that case when maybe Emmanuel was reported.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
You hold on, okay, have I gone to crazy land
crime stories with Nancy Grace? Let me understand this. I'm
looking at my notes again. At just ten weeks old,
(20:32):
Promise has an acute fracture rip ten weeks healing fractures
of six ribs. That means he had already beaten her
to where he broke the ribs and they're now healing
a skull fracture, a brain hemorrhage, swelling of the neck,
a fractured leg bone, nutritional neglect that means starving. I'd
(20:55):
have to go to law school to figure that out.
Not only that she cannot see, talk or walk ever. Ever,
And did you say, Joy Benedict, that he got parenting classes.
He did.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
He served a term in jail and then he got
parenting classes and probation. In that case, he had a
co defendant, so it wasn't just him, it was also
the mother of that child. Obviously, they both custody. And
it's just terrific, terrific to hear.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
The injury twenty eighteen. Excuse me, but Jackie, am I wrong?
Isn't it just twenty twenty five right now? So let's
see eighteen, So tried there from twenty twenty five. So
he's already out, he's had another baby, and now that
(21:55):
baby is missing. So he gets parenting class, a short
stint behind bars, and he's out and now baby Emmanuel
is missing. Okay, back to doctor Thomas Coin. Doctor Coin,
I know this is excruciating and I've had to do
(22:15):
this in front of the jury, and I could look
over at them. I hate it even look at them
because some of them would be wincing when they heard this.
But could you explain what happened to Promise Faith, this
missing baby's sister, who was found in this horrible condition
(22:36):
at just ten weeks? Ten weeks, what happened to her?
Speaker 9 (22:43):
Coin, well, specifically abusive trauma? I mean, you know the
totality of her injuries right the fact that she has
rib fractures, she has a fracture of her leg, she
has a skull fracture, and hemorrhage within her brain. That
pattern right there, distribution of injuries is characteristic of abuse
of trauma. And I say that because so often you'll
(23:05):
hear parents try to explain this as a fall. I
actually dropped the child, or the child stole up.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
I'm sorry, I'm having a choking incident. A choking incident,
because that's exactly what he said. He said some bs
about he was bathing her and she fell. Oh hey, Coin,
wait a minute, back to Benedict Joy. Benedict, you said
he did a stint in jail. Joy. To be clear,
(23:37):
he did one hundred and eighty days days in jail
on on work release. That's what he did. Isn't that
a little glossing over? Isn't that a little putting perfume
on the pig? You said he did some jail time,
(23:58):
one hundred and eighty days in jail on work release.
That's what he got. Joy.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
I know it doesn't seem like a lot. That's why
I said it wasn't a lot of time that he
spent in jail, and then he got out. He's on probation,
he's done fifty five weeks. He has an older child
with his first wife. This little girl that you're referring
to is with his second wife. He is then have
a third wife, who's now accused in this case.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
They have not won.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Emmanuel is not the only child there. They have a
second child, another little girl.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Oh my stars. Back to this shrink, Karen Stark. Why
do these women keep taking up with him? He beats
children into being blind, deaf, can't walk. Why I don't
get it. He keeps getting with women, and they keep
(24:51):
having babies and he keeps beating them. Nancy.
Speaker 6 (24:57):
It's called trauma bunting. It's when a woman is with
a man who's abusive and they get intermittent reinforcement. There's
no stronger reinforcement than that where they are abused and
then their partner apologizes gets them gifts.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
What did you say about intimate What did you say
about intimate intermittent?
Speaker 6 (25:19):
That means to me intermittent, which means comittant reinforcement, which
means that every so often they get wonderful gifts and
apologies and recognition from their partner, which keeps them tied
despite the abuse. It's a terrible pattern and it happens
(25:44):
to women all the time. Trum.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Okay, you know what, Karen Stark, you can talk to
me all day, all day about trauma bonding. But Philip Debay,
that is a croc b s. I don't know they've
had that legal terming your jurisdiction. Maybe they need it
because you can smell it a mile away, Like somehow
the mom's not responsible because she was getting a gift
(26:10):
every other week. Really, and the price for that gift
is watching your child being beaten until it's literally blind.
Oh no, Mommy is not walking on this, not if
I have anything to do with this. Over my cold
dead body, is Mommy going to get away with Karen
Stark's trauma bonding defense.
Speaker 10 (26:30):
She's going to get away with being an accessory after
the fact. And the good news for Rebecca Harrow is
that in California it tops out at three years. You
only have to do half of it even if it's
a felony. So unfortunately for the justice system, for the
public and the world at large, there really might not
be any justice.
Speaker 7 (26:49):
As to her. As to him, he is going down
like the Hindenburg.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, well, we'll see because the last time when he
beat the baby into oblivion and to Coin hasn't even
described the injuries yet. Just wait till you hear that debate.
I want you to know that this mom, the other mom,
was in on it as well. Okay, she stood by
and watched her baby girl getting beaten into basically paralysis.
(27:19):
She can't walk here speak. See, this mom knew what
she was getting into and more important, what she was
subjecting her children to. She knew about the previous beating
incident when she chucked up with this piece of crap.
Speaker 11 (27:40):
Listen, Rebecca and Jay Carrow married in twenty twenty one,
and she was aware of his previous child cruelty case.
Harro claims they have a wonderful relationship, and he treats
her sixteen year old child as well as their two
year old daughter and e Manuel very good, saying he's
a good dad.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
What they refuse a polygraph? A witness says mom had
that black eye before the attack and the Big five
parting lot. I'm yelling about this situation. I'm yelling about
this baby gone and mommy and daddy won't take a polygraph.
The portal thing. If he's alive, who has him? Is
(28:22):
he being fed? Is he alive? Do we have a
chance to save him? Could he be alive? We haven't
found a body yet. Joining me an all star panel
to makes sense of what we know right now. But
in case you're worried about us going easy on mommy,
that's not happening. I want you to hear about daddy
(28:48):
helping in the search.
Speaker 8 (28:50):
The father of seven month old Emmanuel was pulled out
of jail in his orange jumpsuit and take into a
remote area of Marino Valley. Over a dozen vehicles from
the San Bernardina County Sheriff's Department parked alongside the stretch
of Moreno Valley known as the Bad Lens. The steep
terrain is searched with cadaver dogs, but failed to locate
the baby. The department's stresses while Caro was at the scene,
(29:12):
he was not helping in the searche.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Okay, your dad has to be pulled out of jail
and comes to help look for you. But isn't it true,
Dave Mack that l E Law enforcement said, Oh, he's
not helping us. We just brought him out here. He
hasn't been helping us.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
That's exactly what they said, Nancy. I saw the pictures too.
I saw him standing out there, and I thought, what
in the world are they doing with him. I'm guessing
they put him out there to see his reaction as
they looked in different areas, because they flat out said
he is not helping us.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Oh wait, well w wa wait, wait, wait wait wait,
I'll come back to you. Look there he is. He's
just looking off in another direction. He's not talking to anybody.
He was just standing there, and as our camera zoomed in,
he started walking in another other direction, away from l
E from our friends at kay cal, Hey, let's see
that again, Dave make I just wanted to point that
out because I don't think you can see your monitor
(30:08):
go ahead.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Yeah, he's actually not helping at all, Nancy. And you know,
the whole live that has come from the hiros from
both of them, has the police department in all law
enforcement from multiple agencies at their wits end because they're
having to truy they know what they're looking for. Nancy.
This is not this is not a family pet. This
is a seven month old baby that they are looking
(30:32):
in the roughest terrain in the world for. And they
bring out the baby's father and he doesn't even boy
to offer any kind of assistance, any kind of help.
He just stands there.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, Karen Stark, I'm about
to go to Rawlings President Child Welfare and Justice Transformation.
But Karen, you knew my dad, my soulmate. When I
was a little girl, I had to get allergy shots
(31:12):
twice a week, one in each arm. And before we
could even get back from the doctor, he would have
been working the night shift, so as soon as he
got out of school, he'd take me to the allergy doctor.
Before we could even get home, i'd have like two
goose eggs on my arm. I wouldn't be crying, I'd
just be sitting there. But I remember looking over at
my dad driving. He would be crying because he would
(31:35):
look over and see my arms swollen up. And now
I'm looking at this poc. He's not even helping and
l E very rarely would make a comment like that.
But because Dad's lawyer said, oh, he's cooperating, he's helping
b S, he's not helping. My dad would have been
(31:56):
lying out there, prone, screaming for help, doing anything he could.
This guy, he's doing nothing. Help me, Karen.
Speaker 6 (32:07):
He has no feelings, Nancy. We know that this guy
has an antisocial personality. He doesn't feel anything. This little baby,
it could be a chair, it could be a doll.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
It's not real to him.
Speaker 6 (32:23):
He just standing there because he's not feeling anything. I
know it's hard to believe, but that's what this personality
type is life.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Think about it.
Speaker 6 (32:32):
If he's able to beat him a ten week old
so she can't see her walk, he has the capacity
to do whatever he wants to do, be completely narcissistic
and not care what they're doing. Who they're looking for
for is his child? To him, he's not connected. It
doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Tom Rawlings joining me President Child Welfare and Justice Transformation,
former juvenile court judge, child advocate, author of Protecting other
People's Children, Tom. I know some people think I mean
too hard on mommy, but I believe she knowingly subjected
(33:15):
her children to this animal. He is an animal.
Speaker 7 (33:23):
Absolutely.
Speaker 12 (33:24):
Nancy not only did she subject him his child her
future children. Remember she had children with him. After knowing
that he took an innocent ten week old child and
shook or squeezed the child almost to death, apparently lost
his parental rights on that. The only punishment he got
(33:46):
was some time in jail and parenting classes. When Rebecca
Harrow and Jake Harrow had a child together, that child
should have been immediately removed from their custody because he
was not confident to raise a child. Instead, we now
have another situation where apparently he's done it again.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
I don't like what you just said. Rawlings not competent
to raise a child. You know, ding dongs have children
all the time, and they love the children and take
care of the children. You don't have to have a
PhD or be a former judge like yourself to be
a loving parent. You don't have to be smart. You
just have to care about the baby. I think it's
(34:30):
far from not competent. I think that he is violent
and hateful and frankly, I know the TV world hates
this word. He's evil, He's the devil. Are you sitting down,
Tom Rawlings, because you may need to lay down for this.
Listen to this. Jackie dug this up for me. His
(34:50):
former partners and spouses include wait for it, everybody Isabelle
Gonzalez ex wife file domestic violence protective order against him,
also requesting protection for son Eli. So he was obviously
abusing and beaten on Eli Vanessa Avena twenty eighteen, they
(35:16):
were both charged with felony child cruelty regarding what happened
to the little baby girl I told you about Rebecca Harrow.
They are charged now with the murder of baby Emmanuel.
(35:40):
So this is the third instance that we know of
of him beating on and forever paralyzing one child. And
now baby Emmanuel is missing and police believe the baby
(36:03):
is dead. And somebody wants me to debate, wants me
to go easy on the mom in this case? What
about it?
Speaker 7 (36:14):
Rollings absolutely not.
Speaker 12 (36:16):
She When you when you go into this situation, when
you have a child or the man, you know to
be evil and violent like this man, and then you
apparently cover up for the bad things he's done to
your child and you act like you create this scene. Well,
my child was kidnapped. Well you know this is This
is called being part of the problem, and she needs
(36:38):
to suffer significant punishment as well. She cannot sit there
and act like she's the victim. I'm sorry this it
takes It took two of them to create this child.
It apparently took two of them to harm this child
and then deceive the public and law enforcement about what
one of them or both of them had done.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Well, Philip do Bay and your zealous defense of mommy,
I just want to remind you that she knew about
the injuries to the baby's sister. Doctor Coin, could you
explain those injuries to Dubay before he launches his defense.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
Sure.
Speaker 9 (37:19):
I mean they reported at the hospital that she had
a fracture of her skull. She also had hemorrhage within
her brain and hemorrhage within the retina of both eyes.
She also had fractures to the back of her ribs
both sides, as well as a fracture of her right
(37:43):
lower leg bone. And so this is consistent with abuse
of trauma. It's almost similar to grabbing a child by
the leg and slamming them into something where you have
impact trauma of the skull causing the fracture the bleeding
within the brain as well as the eyes, and then
sort of a twisting type injury of the leg most
(38:03):
likely when grabbing the child and using that appendage to
sort of strike the child into something.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Doctor Corn explained to me how a baby after a
bating loses sight, hearing, and the ability to walk.
Speaker 9 (38:22):
Sure most likely due to the trauma to the brain
and head. So, for instance, there was significant injury to
the eye. So in other words, when you strike a
child against something, the forces can actually tear or separate
the layers of the redin of the eyes, so that
you can have direct injury to the eyes themselves, but
(38:44):
you can also severely image the nerves, the optic nerves
that allow us to see, that allow the eyes to
communicate with the brain. In addition, the brain trauma itself,
so you know, our ability to walk, motor control is
through our brain and spinal cord. And this child also
had cervical neck injury, So if there was injury to
the nerves that travel to the spinal cord. Injury to
(39:07):
the parts of our brain that control our ability to move,
then that can certainly prevent that child from walking or
having difficulty walking as that child gets older. The same
thing our ears. So sound is produced in our ear
or is received from our ears, but it's our brain
that allows us to hear. It's the auditory processing centers
(39:27):
in our brain. And so if there was significant damage
to the brain, especially in the temporal regions, which is
like right behind our ears, then that could also prevent
that child from being able to hear.
Speaker 8 (39:38):
In the Southern California News Group, Rebecca Harrow denies that
she went to the Big Five and you Kaipa days
before she reported the kidnapping and told employees her car
had been burgularized in the parking lot and asked if
the business had surveillance cameras. The Sheriff's Department has yet
to address the claims.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Join Benedict is that true. Didployees at Big Five state
that the mother, Rebecca Harrow, was there days ahead of
the kidnap of baby Emmanuel, claiming she had been burglarized,
her car had been burglarized, and asking were their surveillance
(40:16):
videos in the parking lot.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
There's a lot of things in their community about what
happened and whether the Horros had been there or at
another business, or whether they were asking about security cameras.
I did not hear that directly from any employee of
Big Five, but I know a lot of people are
spreading those types of conversations.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Spreading conversations, I call them witnesses. Philip de Bay. If
there is a witness stating that mommy, Rebecca Harrow was
there at the Big five days before the baby goes missing,
asking is there surveillance video in the parking lot, Oh,
it's over, put a fork in her. It's done. She
(41:00):
was planning a way to devise a fake kidnap of
the baby, and the baby was already gone or dead.
Speaker 10 (41:06):
If everything that she did occurred after the fact, after
her quote unquote husband murdered that child, it does not
make her complicit. And moreover, any foreknowledge that she had
of the other child is not imputed to her. There
is no way for her ahead of time to have
had advanced knowledge of the other baby's medical chart. The
(41:28):
police reports from the other case to say that she
is complicit in this worst case scenario, she is an
accessory after the fact, trying to protect him any way
she can, likely out of fear. Frankly, she's probably terrified
that if she comes forward and exposes him in any
way that she's next.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Okay, so she put her own skin before saving her baby. Now,
isn't it true and this is a yes no if
that's possible debate. Isn't it true that under the law,
a jury can take into account its actions before, during,
and after the murder? Yes, according to these witnesses, if
in fact they exist. The mom came to the Big
(42:10):
five sporting goods store trying to case the joint and
determine if there were surveillance cameras in the parking lot,
and what a coincidence. A few days later, she's back
in the same parking lot, signs surveillance cameras and gets
attacked again in the parking lot, but this time they
don't just burglarize her car. They take the baby and
(42:33):
blame some guy nobody sees that she can only identify
by one word Olah. Okay, you save all that for
the jury. Okay, I just be mad if you didn't.
But isn't it true regardless of what Dubay says about
accessory after the fact is the only thing mommy can
(42:54):
be charged with. Dave mac what are the parents charged
with as of tonight?
Speaker 3 (43:02):
As of right now, Rebecca Harrow has been charged with
first degree murder and Jay Harrow is charged with malice murder.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Question to Steve Fisher, we have not found a body.
They could have given the baby away, they could have
sold the baby, they could have abandoned the baby somewhere
in another state. I don't know what could l E
have that tells them the baby is dead. Example, in
(43:35):
the Jennifer DilOS, missing Connecticut mom of five case, we've
never found her body, but there was such a copious
amount of blood in the garage where she had just
come home from drop off at school. They could tell
there's so much blood she had to be dead. So
what could they have, Steve Fisher in this case to
(43:58):
embolden them to bring murder just without.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
A body, and they were quick to do that as well.
Speaker 5 (44:04):
I'd say, you know, blood, We've heard that there's possible
blood evidence in the house.
Speaker 4 (44:09):
Personally, they're processing the scene. I was there.
Speaker 5 (44:11):
I saw them sifting, you know, through trash and they
seem to be focused on one particular room in the house.
They could have a confession from Jake, you know that
they you know, whether it's true or not.
Speaker 4 (44:22):
We don't know if that I'm a body, but they
could you.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Know, what could they have with fiscal evidence.
Speaker 5 (44:29):
They could you know, they blood from if they have
blood from the house when they processed it. From the
view they sees the vehicle, Uh, there could be a
forensic material in that vehicle.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
You know, there would be they seize their cell phones.
Speaker 5 (44:44):
You know, who knows what could have been in the erase,
you know, folders on that which celebrate can pull out. Uh,
there could be you know, other digital you know, friends
that they could be talking about, concocting a story. You know.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
I'll tell you there's a reason they are searching the
Marino Valley. Philip Dobay, they had a search warrant and
the lawyer had them hand over their devices. Dbay, the
LA believed the baby is dead. I don't know that yet,
but they could have the NAV system from the car,
(45:18):
like in Alex Murdoch's case that proved he was at
the crime scene at the time of the murders. They
could have digital forensic evidants, like in Brian Coburger where
he stopped the victims twenty plus times and then kept
going back to the scene. We know that Dad's car
has been impounded. There could be all sorts of evidence
(45:41):
in there and on their phones, such as in the
case of Madeline Soto, where the no account live in
boyfriend murdered her after years of sex abuse on his
girlfriend's little girl. He had videos of the little girl
being abused on his phone. They're so telling what they
(46:02):
were saying to each other when they were getting rid
of the seven month old baby. It could be any
number of things.
Speaker 10 (46:10):
Of course it could, but my guess is that they
have bloodhouse evidence, so cadaver dogs. For whatever reason or
somehow the dogs picked up on cadaverine futresine, which obviously
detects the presence of decomposing human flesh. Moreover, it's very
possible too that there is a digital blueprint putting them
(46:32):
out in those sort of marshy, rough terrain areas where
they believe that baby may prompt And it's possible too
that the police interrogation with Jake that they use what
I call that manipulative law enforcement reconstruction technique where they
try to give him the opportunity to get off his chest,
(46:55):
what if anything happens so he can give his version.
And what it does is that they lure him out
to the dumping site in the hopes that they can get.
Speaker 7 (47:03):
A visceral response out of him.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
And point, are you suggesting there's something wrong with that?
In the Supreme Court? The US Supreme Court rule on that.
It's called a Christian burial case euphemistically, where the killer
was lured to a scene and made it feel so
guilty he blurted out where the body was. There's absolutely
nothing wrong with that. I don't know why you're saying
it like that.
Speaker 7 (47:24):
No, No, it's completely lawful. But it was unsuccessful.
Speaker 10 (47:29):
Here he stood his ground and he's not able to
point them in that direction or refuse.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Oh well, aren't you proud of him? He stood his
ground and didn't help find his baby In the last
hour is a press conference regarding baby Emmanuel from local
LA law enforcement Dave Matt What happened.
Speaker 8 (47:45):
As investigators looked for the body of seven month old
Emmanuel Harrow. His father, convicted Fella Jake Harrow, finally comes
clean with detectives, telling them he rolled over in bed
and accidentally killed the infant. Knowing they're only getting a
partial confession, investigators put an undercover officer in the cell
(48:06):
with Horrow to be his new best friend, and in
short order, Harrow tells his new SELLI he kills his
son and put his body in a trash can in
their home.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
As we wait for justice to unfold in the search
for baby Emmanuel, we remember an American hero Trooper James
Amanda Inn Wy State Police Department, killed in the line
of duty after eighteen years of service, leaving behind a
grieving fiancee, Teresa. American hero Trooper James Monda thank you, Terry,
(48:41):
Thank you to our guest tonight, but especially to you
for being with us tonight and every night. Nobody ever
said crime is pretty, crime is not entertainment. There is
a chance we can find this baby alive. If you
(49:02):
know or think you know anything about baby Emmanuel, please
call nine zero nine three eight seven eight three one
three repeat nine zero nine three eight seven eight three
one three Nancy Grace signing off, Goodbye, Mad
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, A rugged terrain search goes
on for baby Emmanuel, just seven months old, and tonight
the chilling question emerges. Did the baby disappear nine days
(00:23):
before the alleged kidnap when mommy was attacked in the
parking lot at a sporting goods store? Was the baby
really missing nine days before that? I'm Nancy Grace, this
is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being
with us. Where is baby Emmanuel? Just seven months old?
(00:44):
Where is this baby?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
They first got the call from someone of the Big
Five saying, my baby has been taken and she is
frantic and upset. She got out of their pickup trot
when someone attacked her.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Where is seven month old baby? Image? You will questions
swirling straight out, First of all to Joy Benedict joining
us the search going on. Investigative reporter CBSLA Joy tell
me about the search as is taking place.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
This has been a search that has been going on
now since this little boy was reported missing. They have
searched the home, they have searched nearby fields. They have
searched along the highways.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
They have used.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Dogs of varying degrees searching for different things. Life, death,
that you name it. They have searched two counties and
they have still not found this little boy.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Joy Benedict, what counties are they searching? Guys? You are
seeing not only Lee law enforcement fanning out stopping traffic
parts all along the side of this rugged terrain, along
the side of a mountain. There you see the dad
of baby Emmanuel. You mentioned two counties are being searched tonight.
(01:58):
What are they? Joy?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
They are San Bernardino County, where little Emmanuel was first
reported missing on August fourteenth, and then Riverside County, which
is the county in.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Which the Horroes live.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
That video is from Riverside County and not too far
from their palme of the sixty Freeway.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Joining me an all star panel to make sense of
what we know right now. Just so you know, Joy
Benedict has been on the case since the baby first
went missing, reportedly by mom. Let's see a shot of
mom with a black eye please. Mom says she was
at the Big five sporting goods store getting a mouthguard
for her other son. She got out of the vehicle
(02:39):
to change baby Emmanuel's diepee and she was attacked from behind.
I will let someone on the panel explain how she
got a black eye from the front, but that is possible.
That's possible. She says she was attacked from behind. When
she woke up from the attack, I'd like to find
out about any head wounds that would have knocked her unconscious.
(03:00):
But when she woke up from the attack, the baby
is gone. No money is taken. There's no sex attack,
no carjack, just the baby. There are no cameras in
the Big five parking lot, no surveillance. This video is
from our friends at KKEL. No witnesses saw this. That
(03:24):
doesn't mean it didn't happen. But back to the search
is happening right now. Steve Fisher is joining us Missing
Persons private investigator, search and rescue specialist, owner of Search Investigations.
You've been on the scene for the last week. What
do you know?
Speaker 4 (03:42):
So?
Speaker 5 (03:42):
Search has been headed up by San Bernardino's Search and
Rescue team and they've primarily been focused off the sixty Freeway,
which is where we saw the video of Jake. With them,
they've had a cadaverdog out there along with search teams
that are ground searching and detectives that are searching.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
And this is an area that it's rolling hills.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
Uh, you know, brush that's two or three feet high
with trees.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
It's it's a vast area.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
It's a lot of area to cover, but it's also
an area that's fairly easy to search by air.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Steve, tell me about the terrain and how the search
for baby Immanual is being conducted.
Speaker 5 (04:23):
Ground searchers and cadaver dogs and air support and this
these are this is rolling hills with three foot brushes,
but the ground itself is rock hard. So this is
an area that you know, they're I don't think they're
they're using ground penetrating radar or anything like that. This
is going to be a you know, a ground search operation,
and it's not an extremely from a search and rescue
(04:45):
point of view, it's not an extremely difficult search area.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Now I'm looking at the side of a mountain, and
I would find that difficult to search. Guys, you're seeing
video from our friends over at KKW right now, and
you're hearing Steve Fisher, who is an expert in search investigations.
I saw where they were doing what was almost a
shoulder to shoulder search. Why are shoulder to shoulder searches
(05:15):
conducted well?
Speaker 4 (05:16):
So that's increases the probability of.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
Detection, and that so that means they could be looking
for smaller pieces of evidentiary value, not just a manual,
but it could be other things tied that you know,
could be even cell phones or whatever. Also, those line searches,
which are the very tight formed ones, they were very
close into the freeway and so they didn't extend that
(05:43):
out very far. They were using other search and rescue
ground searchers that were doing more of what we call
a hasty search, and they were going further up into
the hill.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
But the detective.
Speaker 5 (05:53):
Is very close, kind of in that ravine that we're
seeing on the screen.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I want to follow up on a few things that
Steve Fisher just told us. At this hour, the search
for baby Emmanuel goes on. Baby Emmanuel, just seven months old,
reportedly goes missing out of a Big five Sporting Goods
parking lot there with his mother. So I find it
(06:20):
very curious that he was quote kidnapped by an unknown
male that said one word ollah. Mommy didn't get a
look at him, Mommy didn't see him here, hear a threat,
smell cigarettes, smell alcohol, smell pot nothing, She heard one
word olla. And she wakes up in the baby's debt
and now Ellie is searching rugged terrain in the Moreno Valley.
(06:46):
Now curious, Dave Mac joining me, Crime Stories investigative reporter, Dave.
Did you hear Steve Fisher state some of the search
was going along close to the free What does that
tell me? That tells me that they're looking to see
if anything was thrown out of a vehicle. We've even
(07:06):
had you and I, Dave Mac, bodies found beside the freeway. Okay,
you called Nicole Level, the little thirteen year old girl
that was kidnapped, abducted by David as Eisenhower, a valedictorian
track star and his friend Natalie Keepers. Her body was
(07:27):
found wipe down with alcohol wipes on the side of
the interstate. So that tells me they're also looking for
something that could have been thrown out of a car
on the side of the interstate, or even God help us,
a baby's body on the side of the interstate. That's
what that tells me. That they're searching near the roadway there.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
And Nancy, you can see along the sixty freeway where
all of the vehicles, all the squad cars, the sheriff's
appe's all of them parked along this area and they're
walking down this The terrain is incredibly rugged. It's very
speek right off the roadway. And if they were to
have God love them. I can't imagine what's going through
(08:10):
their heads as they search. But if a body, a
baby's body, had been tossed, just discarded off the side, Nancy,
it would not just land in the spot, it would
roll and could be underbrush where it couldn't be seen easily.
That's why they're having to walk so close shoulder to
shoulders as they search certain areas of this terrain is just.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Horrible, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
To let me get right back to the search, everybody.
This video for a forensic KKWEN. Some of the drone
video was taken by our guest Steve Fisher. Karen Stark
is with me, a long time colleague and friend, forensic psychologist,
well known TV radio trauma expert, consultant at Karenstark dot com.
That's Karen with a C. If we're trying to find her,
(08:57):
Karen Stark. Dave Mac just brought up a conjured up
a horrible image. I was about to launch into the
importance of shoulder to shoulder searches. You and I covered one.
The first one you and I covered. I don't know
if you remember, this was Schandra Levy. Schandra Levy went
(09:22):
missing the Washington intern and ultimately there were shoulder to
shoulder searches of Rock Creek Park there in d C.
Nothing was found, but on later searches her leggings were found.
So shoulder to shoulder searches or when you're looking for
(09:46):
as Steve Fisher pointed out, you could be looking for leggings.
You could be looking for a baby's shoe. You could
be looking for a hair brett of a missing child.
You could be looking for anything that when everyone is dispersed,
may miss, but shoulder to shoulder. It's excruciating, it's laborious,
it's time intensive, but that's what they're doing to find
(10:08):
any clue, even just a sheet or suck belonging to
baby Emmanuel. But for your purposes. Can you imagine these
LA law enforcement and volunteers being told ahead of time,
brace yourself in case you find a dead infant. I mean,
(10:31):
when I was trying case Is Karen, I would have
nightmares of finding dead bodies because I would be talking
to witnesses all day longed and found dead bodies. I'd
actually dream about it, but this is happening for real.
These LA and volunteers are looking at the prospect of
nearly stepping on a dead.
Speaker 6 (10:49):
Infant, and we can think of anything worse than that, Right, Nancy,
I'm sure everybody listening would agree. What is more horrific
than seeing the baby dead under natural circumstances, let alone
encountering one.
Speaker 7 (11:05):
Under these circumstances.
Speaker 6 (11:06):
And yet it's incredibly important and they know that to
find these babies, and that's why they volunteer. But there
is nothing worse, and they do live with trauma very often,
just as you said you do when you can think
of the bodies they are dealing, in this instance with
a tiny little baby. Even hearing about what he did
(11:30):
to his original baby promise who was Trump, He just
she can't see, she can't walk.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
And when I read.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
About that, I got so upset thinking about a ten
week old baby being abuse like that, and this is
a baby that is likely dead.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
This is something I don't understand. Let me ask Joy.
Joy Benedet is joining us from CBSLA, who's on the
story from the get go. Joy. The baby goes missing.
We're told in the parking lot of Big five Sportings
Good Sporting Goods. How far away is the Reino Valley.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
It's probably about a thirty to forty five minute drive
from where the baby went missing from what was reported
missing from, we should say, but.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
It is not too far from their home. So I'm
trying to figure out how a baby goes missing, vanishes
in a parking lot and now almost an hour away,
we're coming through rugged terrain. This is how we were told.
The baby goes missing.
Speaker 8 (12:43):
Seventy miles east of Los Angeles in Yukaipa, Rebecca Horrow
steps one needs a new mouthpiece for football. She has
to a sporting good store with seven month old Emmanuel.
Rebecca Harrow realizes baby Emmanuel dirtied his diaper, and she
prepares to change his diaper before going into the store.
Rebecca Horrow play baby Emmanuel next to his car seat
to change his diaper when she hears a man say
(13:05):
oh lah. Before she can return the greeting, she has
knocked unconscious. When she wakes up, baby Emmanuel is gone.
Rebecca Harrow races inside the Big Five and asks an
employee if she has seen a baby or a person
with a baby come into the store. Nine one one
is called at seven forty five, where.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Is seven month old baby Emmanuel.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
They have searched the home, they have searched nearby fields,
they have searched along the highways.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
But when she woke up from the attack, the baby
is gone. No money is taken. There's no sex attack,
no carjack. She heard one word ola and she wakes
up in the baby's debt. At this hour, the search
for baby Emmanuel goes on as we speak tonight for
seven month old baby Emmanuel and joining me right now.
(13:51):
Doctor Thomas Con, Chief Medical Examiner District to Medical Examiner's Office,
State of Florida Forensic Pathologists talks to cologist neuropathologist, Doctor Coin,
thank you for being with us. I heard Joy Benedict
and Steve Fisher state that in addition to shoulder to
(14:14):
shoulder searches for baby emmanual and very rough terrain, cadaver
dogs have been brought out. Cadaver dogs look only for
human tissue from a deceased human. So my question is this,
doctor Con, the dogs are not looking for a live baby.
(14:39):
How quickly after a child is killed would decomp begin.
What is it so quickly after death that cadaver dogs
can smell?
Speaker 9 (14:55):
Well, The process of decomposition starts immediately after we die.
Once our immune system is basically shut down, as our
blood stops circulating all that bacteria that's withinside our internal cavities,
our intestines begins to digest us and that process called
puture faction, produces a number of volatile chemicals as it
begins to digest our blood, our body fat. And those
(15:18):
are the chemicals, those organic chemicals that the dogs pick up,
and those are what the dogs are actually trained on.
These dogs will actually be trained on the scent of
decomposing remains at various stages of decomposition, and they can
pick up that sound, excuse me, that smell very readily.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Doctor Cooin. I'm sure that you are used to a
constant influx to stream of dead bodies, including children, babies,
they at accidental, natural cause, undetermined, or homicide. But when
I look at this baby's picture, control them. I'd like
to see baby Hero. I want to see Emmanuel. When
(16:03):
I look at baby Emmanuel, he's just seven months old,
I just want to hold him. I want to bring
him home. With me. I want to feed him, I
want him to help get well. I want to see
one picture of this baby with a smile, just one.
I have come through every photo I have of this baby,
and not one photo is this baby smiling. Not one.
(16:25):
I'm not the only one that's noticed on Twitter, on Facebook,
everywhere instant everyone's saying does the baby never smile? Why?
But doctor Thomas Coin, when I hear what you're saying
about putrification, and he says something about the body fluids
(16:46):
start digesting the baby, and I look at this photos,
I don't know how you do it everyday. Coin, It's hard.
Speaker 9 (16:56):
Those are the hardest cases that I have to be
able to tom these cases, in particular as a father myself.
You have to get good at talking your emotions inside
and doing the job that's necessary so you can help
bring justice to these poor kids.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
What were you saying about the body's fluids actually digest
the body? Is that what you said?
Speaker 9 (17:20):
Yeah? So what happens is, you know, our intestines, especially
they're aligned with bacteria, and that bacteria will literally begin
to digest our tissues. Because now that we're dead, our
own bodies immune system isn't there to protect us, and
so that bacteria can just move all throughout our body,
(17:42):
digesting our tissues, and also as our tissues break down
enzymes within our own our own body tissues. Now I
can also aid in that process. So over time, especially
if this body is outside, that process will proceed pretty rapidly.
So you within thirty minutes or so of a body
(18:02):
dying and decomposition starting, there should be enough volatilized organic
compounds that any dog can pick up that scent.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Doctor Coin, If I could just keep you for just
a few more moments, I want you. I want to
talk to you about baby Emmanuel's sister. Baby Emmanual's sister. Yes,
he has a sister. This tiny little boy has a sister,
(18:34):
doctor Coin. And the sister cannot speak, The sister cannot walk,
the sister cannot see listen.
Speaker 8 (18:48):
The sister of Emmanuel was so badly injured at just
ten weeks she was left unable to see, talk, or walk.
The little girl is being raised by her adoptive mother,
who renamed the child Promised Faith. At just ten weeks old,
Promised had an acute fractured rib, healing fractures of six ribs,
(19:08):
a skull fracture, a brain hemorrhage, swelling of the neck, healing,
fractured leg bone, and nutritional neglect. Caro and his former
partner Vanessa Alvina were both charged with child cruelty in
twenty eighteen, to which Horrow pleading guilty.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Joy benedet de joining US investigative reporter. Are you telling
me that baby Immanuel was living in the home with
the man that did that to Emmanual's sister. She can't see,
(19:45):
she can't walk because of the severe baiting.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Her father did plead guilty to wilful child cruelty because
of that case. I am also told by his attorney
he represented him at the time, that he completed fifty
five weeks of parenting classes afterwards, and he was currently
on probation for that case when maybe Emmanuel was reported.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
You hold on, okay, have I gone to crazy land
crime stories with Nancy Grace? Let me understand this. I'm
looking at my notes again. At just ten weeks old,
(20:32):
Promise has an acute fracture rip ten weeks healing fractures
of six ribs. That means he had already beaten her
to where he broke the ribs and they're now healing
a skull fracture, a brain hemorrhage, swelling of the neck,
a fractured leg bone, nutritional neglect that means starving. I'd
(20:55):
have to go to law school to figure that out.
Not only that she cannot see, talk or walk ever. Ever,
And did you say, Joy Benedict, that he got parenting classes.
He did.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
He served a term in jail and then he got
parenting classes and probation. In that case, he had a
co defendant, so it wasn't just him, it was also
the mother of that child. Obviously, they both custody. And
it's just terrific, terrific to hear.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
The injury twenty eighteen. Excuse me, but Jackie, am I wrong?
Isn't it just twenty twenty five right now? So let's
see eighteen, So tried there from twenty twenty five. So
he's already out, he's had another baby, and now that
(21:55):
baby is missing. So he gets parenting class, a short
stint behind bars, and he's out and now baby Emmanuel
is missing. Okay, back to doctor Thomas Coin. Doctor Coin,
I know this is excruciating and I've had to do
(22:15):
this in front of the jury, and I could look
over at them. I hate it even look at them
because some of them would be wincing when they heard this.
But could you explain what happened to Promise Faith, this
missing baby's sister, who was found in this horrible condition
(22:36):
at just ten weeks? Ten weeks, what happened to her?
Speaker 9 (22:43):
Coin, well, specifically abusive trauma? I mean, you know the
totality of her injuries right the fact that she has
rib fractures, she has a fracture of her leg, she
has a skull fracture, and hemorrhage within her brain. That
pattern right there, distribution of injuries is characteristic of abuse
of trauma. And I say that because so often you'll
(23:05):
hear parents try to explain this as a fall. I
actually dropped the child, or the child stole up.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
I'm sorry, I'm having a choking incident. A choking incident,
because that's exactly what he said. He said some bs
about he was bathing her and she fell. Oh hey, Coin,
wait a minute, back to Benedict Joy. Benedict, you said
he did a stint in jail. Joy. To be clear,
(23:37):
he did one hundred and eighty days days in jail
on on work release. That's what he did. Isn't that
a little glossing over? Isn't that a little putting perfume
on the pig? You said he did some jail time,
(23:58):
one hundred and eighty days in jail on work release.
That's what he got. Joy.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
I know it doesn't seem like a lot. That's why
I said it wasn't a lot of time that he
spent in jail, and then he got out. He's on probation,
he's done fifty five weeks. He has an older child
with his first wife. This little girl that you're referring
to is with his second wife. He is then have
a third wife, who's now accused in this case.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
They have not won.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Emmanuel is not the only child there. They have a
second child, another little girl.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Oh my stars. Back to this shrink, Karen Stark. Why
do these women keep taking up with him? He beats
children into being blind, deaf, can't walk. Why I don't
get it. He keeps getting with women, and they keep
(24:51):
having babies and he keeps beating them. Nancy.
Speaker 6 (24:57):
It's called trauma bunting. It's when a woman is with
a man who's abusive and they get intermittent reinforcement. There's
no stronger reinforcement than that where they are abused and
then their partner apologizes gets them gifts.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
What did you say about intimate What did you say
about intimate intermittent?
Speaker 6 (25:19):
That means to me intermittent, which means comittant reinforcement, which
means that every so often they get wonderful gifts and
apologies and recognition from their partner, which keeps them tied
despite the abuse. It's a terrible pattern and it happens
(25:44):
to women all the time. Trum.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Okay, you know what, Karen Stark, you can talk to
me all day, all day about trauma bonding. But Philip Debay,
that is a croc b s. I don't know they've
had that legal terming your jurisdiction. Maybe they need it
because you can smell it a mile away, Like somehow
the mom's not responsible because she was getting a gift
(26:10):
every other week. Really, and the price for that gift
is watching your child being beaten until it's literally blind.
Oh no, Mommy is not walking on this, not if
I have anything to do with this. Over my cold
dead body, is Mommy going to get away with Karen
Stark's trauma bonding defense.
Speaker 10 (26:30):
She's going to get away with being an accessory after
the fact. And the good news for Rebecca Harrow is
that in California it tops out at three years. You
only have to do half of it even if it's
a felony. So unfortunately for the justice system, for the
public and the world at large, there really might not
be any justice.
Speaker 7 (26:49):
As to her. As to him, he is going down
like the Hindenburg.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah, well, we'll see because the last time when he
beat the baby into oblivion and to Coin hasn't even
described the injuries yet. Just wait till you hear that debate.
I want you to know that this mom, the other mom,
was in on it as well. Okay, she stood by
and watched her baby girl getting beaten into basically paralysis.
(27:19):
She can't walk here speak. See, this mom knew what
she was getting into and more important, what she was
subjecting her children to. She knew about the previous beating
incident when she chucked up with this piece of crap.
Speaker 11 (27:40):
Listen, Rebecca and Jay Carrow married in twenty twenty one,
and she was aware of his previous child cruelty case.
Harro claims they have a wonderful relationship, and he treats
her sixteen year old child as well as their two
year old daughter and e Manuel very good, saying he's
a good dad.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
What they refuse a polygraph? A witness says mom had
that black eye before the attack and the Big five
parting lot. I'm yelling about this situation. I'm yelling about
this baby gone and mommy and daddy won't take a polygraph.
The portal thing. If he's alive, who has him? Is
(28:22):
he being fed? Is he alive? Do we have a
chance to save him? Could he be alive? We haven't
found a body yet. Joining me an all star panel
to makes sense of what we know right now. But
in case you're worried about us going easy on mommy,
that's not happening. I want you to hear about daddy
(28:48):
helping in the search.
Speaker 8 (28:50):
The father of seven month old Emmanuel was pulled out
of jail in his orange jumpsuit and take into a
remote area of Marino Valley. Over a dozen vehicles from
the San Bernardina County Sheriff's Department parked alongside the stretch
of Moreno Valley known as the Bad Lens. The steep
terrain is searched with cadaver dogs, but failed to locate
the baby. The department's stresses while Caro was at the scene,
(29:12):
he was not helping in the searche.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Okay, your dad has to be pulled out of jail
and comes to help look for you. But isn't it true,
Dave Mack that l E Law enforcement said, Oh, he's
not helping us. We just brought him out here. He
hasn't been helping us.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
That's exactly what they said, Nancy. I saw the pictures too.
I saw him standing out there, and I thought, what
in the world are they doing with him. I'm guessing
they put him out there to see his reaction as
they looked in different areas, because they flat out said
he is not helping us.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Oh wait, well w wa wait, wait, wait wait wait,
I'll come back to you. Look there he is. He's
just looking off in another direction. He's not talking to anybody.
He was just standing there, and as our camera zoomed in,
he started walking in another other direction, away from l
E from our friends at kay cal, Hey, let's see
that again, Dave make I just wanted to point that
out because I don't think you can see your monitor
(30:08):
go ahead.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Yeah, he's actually not helping at all, Nancy. And you know,
the whole live that has come from the hiros from
both of them, has the police department in all law
enforcement from multiple agencies at their wits end because they're
having to truy they know what they're looking for. Nancy.
This is not this is not a family pet. This
is a seven month old baby that they are looking
(30:32):
in the roughest terrain in the world for. And they
bring out the baby's father and he doesn't even boy
to offer any kind of assistance, any kind of help.
He just stands there.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, Karen Stark, I'm about
to go to Rawlings President Child Welfare and Justice Transformation.
But Karen, you knew my dad, my soulmate. When I
was a little girl, I had to get allergy shots
(31:12):
twice a week, one in each arm. And before we
could even get back from the doctor, he would have
been working the night shift, so as soon as he
got out of school, he'd take me to the allergy doctor.
Before we could even get home, i'd have like two
goose eggs on my arm. I wouldn't be crying, I'd
just be sitting there. But I remember looking over at
my dad driving. He would be crying because he would
(31:35):
look over and see my arms swollen up. And now
I'm looking at this poc. He's not even helping and
l E very rarely would make a comment like that.
But because Dad's lawyer said, oh, he's cooperating, he's helping
b S, he's not helping. My dad would have been
(31:56):
lying out there, prone, screaming for help, doing anything he could.
This guy, he's doing nothing. Help me, Karen.
Speaker 6 (32:07):
He has no feelings, Nancy. We know that this guy
has an antisocial personality. He doesn't feel anything. This little baby,
it could be a chair, it could be a doll.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
It's not real to him.
Speaker 6 (32:23):
He just standing there because he's not feeling anything. I
know it's hard to believe, but that's what this personality
type is life.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Think about it.
Speaker 6 (32:32):
If he's able to beat him a ten week old
so she can't see her walk, he has the capacity
to do whatever he wants to do, be completely narcissistic
and not care what they're doing. Who they're looking for
for is his child? To him, he's not connected. It
doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Tom Rawlings joining me President Child Welfare and Justice Transformation,
former juvenile court judge, child advocate, author of Protecting other
People's Children, Tom. I know some people think I mean
too hard on mommy, but I believe she knowingly subjected
(33:15):
her children to this animal. He is an animal.
Speaker 7 (33:23):
Absolutely.
Speaker 12 (33:24):
Nancy not only did she subject him his child her
future children. Remember she had children with him. After knowing
that he took an innocent ten week old child and
shook or squeezed the child almost to death, apparently lost
his parental rights on that. The only punishment he got
(33:46):
was some time in jail and parenting classes. When Rebecca
Harrow and Jake Harrow had a child together, that child
should have been immediately removed from their custody because he
was not confident to raise a child. Instead, we now
have another situation where apparently he's done it again.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
I don't like what you just said. Rawlings not competent
to raise a child. You know, ding dongs have children
all the time, and they love the children and take
care of the children. You don't have to have a
PhD or be a former judge like yourself to be
a loving parent. You don't have to be smart. You
just have to care about the baby. I think it's
(34:30):
far from not competent. I think that he is violent
and hateful and frankly, I know the TV world hates
this word. He's evil, He's the devil. Are you sitting down,
Tom Rawlings, because you may need to lay down for this.
Listen to this. Jackie dug this up for me. His
(34:50):
former partners and spouses include wait for it, everybody Isabelle
Gonzalez ex wife file domestic violence protective order against him,
also requesting protection for son Eli. So he was obviously
abusing and beaten on Eli Vanessa Avena twenty eighteen, they
(35:16):
were both charged with felony child cruelty regarding what happened
to the little baby girl I told you about Rebecca Harrow.
They are charged now with the murder of baby Emmanuel.
(35:40):
So this is the third instance that we know of
of him beating on and forever paralyzing one child. And
now baby Emmanuel is missing and police believe the baby
(36:03):
is dead. And somebody wants me to debate, wants me
to go easy on the mom in this case? What
about it?
Speaker 7 (36:14):
Rollings absolutely not.
Speaker 12 (36:16):
She When you when you go into this situation, when
you have a child or the man, you know to
be evil and violent like this man, and then you
apparently cover up for the bad things he's done to
your child and you act like you create this scene. Well,
my child was kidnapped. Well you know this is This
is called being part of the problem, and she needs
(36:38):
to suffer significant punishment as well. She cannot sit there
and act like she's the victim. I'm sorry this it
takes It took two of them to create this child.
It apparently took two of them to harm this child
and then deceive the public and law enforcement about what
one of them or both of them had done.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Well, Philip do Bay and your zealous defense of mommy,
I just want to remind you that she knew about
the injuries to the baby's sister. Doctor Coin, could you
explain those injuries to Dubay before he launches his defense.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
Sure.
Speaker 9 (37:19):
I mean they reported at the hospital that she had
a fracture of her skull. She also had hemorrhage within
her brain and hemorrhage within the retina of both eyes.
She also had fractures to the back of her ribs
both sides, as well as a fracture of her right
(37:43):
lower leg bone. And so this is consistent with abuse
of trauma. It's almost similar to grabbing a child by
the leg and slamming them into something where you have
impact trauma of the skull causing the fracture the bleeding
within the brain as well as the eyes, and then
sort of a twisting type injury of the leg most
(38:03):
likely when grabbing the child and using that appendage to
sort of strike the child into something.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Doctor Corn explained to me how a baby after a
bating loses sight, hearing, and the ability to walk.
Speaker 9 (38:22):
Sure most likely due to the trauma to the brain
and head. So, for instance, there was significant injury to
the eye. So in other words, when you strike a
child against something, the forces can actually tear or separate
the layers of the redin of the eyes, so that
you can have direct injury to the eyes themselves, but
(38:44):
you can also severely image the nerves, the optic nerves
that allow us to see, that allow the eyes to
communicate with the brain. In addition, the brain trauma itself,
so you know, our ability to walk, motor control is
through our brain and spinal cord. And this child also
had cervical neck injury, So if there was injury to
the nerves that travel to the spinal cord. Injury to
(39:07):
the parts of our brain that control our ability to move,
then that can certainly prevent that child from walking or
having difficulty walking as that child gets older. The same
thing our ears. So sound is produced in our ear
or is received from our ears, but it's our brain
that allows us to hear. It's the auditory processing centers
(39:27):
in our brain. And so if there was significant damage
to the brain, especially in the temporal regions, which is
like right behind our ears, then that could also prevent
that child from being able to hear.
Speaker 8 (39:38):
In the Southern California News Group, Rebecca Harrow denies that
she went to the Big Five and you Kaipa days
before she reported the kidnapping and told employees her car
had been burgularized in the parking lot and asked if
the business had surveillance cameras. The Sheriff's Department has yet
to address the claims.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Join Benedict is that true. Didployees at Big Five state
that the mother, Rebecca Harrow, was there days ahead of
the kidnap of baby Emmanuel, claiming she had been burglarized,
her car had been burglarized, and asking were their surveillance
(40:16):
videos in the parking lot.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
There's a lot of things in their community about what
happened and whether the Horros had been there or at
another business, or whether they were asking about security cameras.
I did not hear that directly from any employee of
Big Five, but I know a lot of people are
spreading those types of conversations.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Spreading conversations, I call them witnesses. Philip de Bay. If
there is a witness stating that mommy, Rebecca Harrow was
there at the Big five days before the baby goes missing,
asking is there surveillance video in the parking lot, Oh,
it's over, put a fork in her. It's done. She
(41:00):
was planning a way to devise a fake kidnap of
the baby, and the baby was already gone or dead.
Speaker 10 (41:06):
If everything that she did occurred after the fact, after
her quote unquote husband murdered that child, it does not
make her complicit. And moreover, any foreknowledge that she had
of the other child is not imputed to her. There
is no way for her ahead of time to have
had advanced knowledge of the other baby's medical chart. The
(41:28):
police reports from the other case to say that she
is complicit in this worst case scenario, she is an
accessory after the fact, trying to protect him any way
she can, likely out of fear. Frankly, she's probably terrified
that if she comes forward and exposes him in any
way that she's next.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Okay, so she put her own skin before saving her baby. Now,
isn't it true and this is a yes no if
that's possible debate. Isn't it true that under the law,
a jury can take into account its actions before, during,
and after the murder? Yes, according to these witnesses, if
in fact they exist. The mom came to the Big
(42:10):
five sporting goods store trying to case the joint and
determine if there were surveillance cameras in the parking lot,
and what a coincidence. A few days later, she's back
in the same parking lot, signs surveillance cameras and gets
attacked again in the parking lot, but this time they
don't just burglarize her car. They take the baby and
(42:33):
blame some guy nobody sees that she can only identify
by one word Olah. Okay, you save all that for
the jury. Okay, I just be mad if you didn't.
But isn't it true regardless of what Dubay says about
accessory after the fact is the only thing mommy can
(42:54):
be charged with. Dave mac what are the parents charged
with as of tonight?
Speaker 3 (43:02):
As of right now, Rebecca Harrow has been charged with
first degree murder and Jay Harrow is charged with malice murder.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Question to Steve Fisher, we have not found a body.
They could have given the baby away, they could have
sold the baby, they could have abandoned the baby somewhere
in another state. I don't know what could l E
have that tells them the baby is dead. Example, in
(43:35):
the Jennifer DilOS, missing Connecticut mom of five case, we've
never found her body, but there was such a copious
amount of blood in the garage where she had just
come home from drop off at school. They could tell
there's so much blood she had to be dead. So
what could they have, Steve Fisher in this case to
(43:58):
embolden them to bring murder just without.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
A body, and they were quick to do that as well.
Speaker 5 (44:04):
I'd say, you know, blood, We've heard that there's possible
blood evidence in the house.
Speaker 4 (44:09):
Personally, they're processing the scene. I was there.
Speaker 5 (44:11):
I saw them sifting, you know, through trash and they
seem to be focused on one particular room in the house.
They could have a confession from Jake, you know that
they you know, whether it's true or not.
Speaker 4 (44:22):
We don't know if that I'm a body, but they
could you.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Know, what could they have with fiscal evidence.
Speaker 5 (44:29):
They could you know, they blood from if they have
blood from the house when they processed it. From the
view they sees the vehicle, Uh, there could be a
forensic material in that vehicle.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
You know, there would be they seize their cell phones.
Speaker 5 (44:44):
You know, who knows what could have been in the erase,
you know, folders on that which celebrate can pull out. Uh,
there could be you know, other digital you know, friends
that they could be talking about, concocting a story. You know.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
I'll tell you there's a reason they are searching the
Marino Valley. Philip Dobay, they had a search warrant and
the lawyer had them hand over their devices. Dbay, the
LA believed the baby is dead. I don't know that yet,
but they could have the NAV system from the car,
(45:18):
like in Alex Murdoch's case that proved he was at
the crime scene at the time of the murders. They
could have digital forensic evidants, like in Brian Coburger where
he stopped the victims twenty plus times and then kept
going back to the scene. We know that Dad's car
has been impounded. There could be all sorts of evidence
(45:41):
in there and on their phones, such as in the
case of Madeline Soto, where the no account live in
boyfriend murdered her after years of sex abuse on his
girlfriend's little girl. He had videos of the little girl
being abused on his phone. They're so telling what they
(46:02):
were saying to each other when they were getting rid
of the seven month old baby. It could be any
number of things.
Speaker 10 (46:10):
Of course it could, but my guess is that they
have bloodhouse evidence, so cadaver dogs. For whatever reason or
somehow the dogs picked up on cadaverine futresine, which obviously
detects the presence of decomposing human flesh. Moreover, it's very
possible too that there is a digital blueprint putting them
(46:32):
out in those sort of marshy, rough terrain areas where
they believe that baby may prompt And it's possible too
that the police interrogation with Jake that they use what
I call that manipulative law enforcement reconstruction technique where they
try to give him the opportunity to get off his chest,
(46:55):
what if anything happens so he can give his version.
And what it does is that they lure him out
to the dumping site in the hopes that they can get.
Speaker 7 (47:03):
A visceral response out of him.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
And point, are you suggesting there's something wrong with that?
In the Supreme Court? The US Supreme Court rule on that.
It's called a Christian burial case euphemistically, where the killer
was lured to a scene and made it feel so
guilty he blurted out where the body was. There's absolutely
nothing wrong with that. I don't know why you're saying
it like that.
Speaker 7 (47:24):
No, No, it's completely lawful. But it was unsuccessful.
Speaker 10 (47:29):
Here he stood his ground and he's not able to
point them in that direction or refuse.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Oh well, aren't you proud of him? He stood his
ground and didn't help find his baby In the last
hour is a press conference regarding baby Emmanuel from local
LA law enforcement Dave Matt What happened.
Speaker 8 (47:45):
As investigators looked for the body of seven month old
Emmanuel Harrow. His father, convicted Fella Jake Harrow, finally comes
clean with detectives, telling them he rolled over in bed
and accidentally killed the infant. Knowing they're only getting a
partial confession, investigators put an undercover officer in the cell
(48:06):
with Horrow to be his new best friend, and in
short order, Harrow tells his new SELLI he kills his
son and put his body in a trash can in
their home.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
As we wait for justice to unfold in the search
for baby Emmanuel, we remember an American hero Trooper James
Amanda Inn Wy State Police Department, killed in the line
of duty after eighteen years of service, leaving behind a
grieving fiancee, Teresa. American hero Trooper James Monda thank you, Terry,
(48:41):
Thank you to our guest tonight, but especially to you
for being with us tonight and every night. Nobody ever
said crime is pretty, crime is not entertainment. There is
a chance we can find this baby alive. If you
(49:02):
know or think you know anything about baby Emmanuel, please
call nine zero nine three eight seven eight three one
three repeat nine zero nine three eight seven eight three
one three Nancy Grace signing off, Goodbye, Mad
Host
Nancy Grace
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