October 12, 2022 • 39 mins
As Faith Phillips' personal investigation into the murders of three Girl Scouts at a camp in Oklahoma continues, new suspects come from a revelation of a confession and recollections from individuals in the community. Also a box of evidence from the case is recovered. What's inside? Today on Crime Stories, part three off our Girls Scout Murders investigation.
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Herb Weaver - Sheriff Weaver’s son
- Kent Frates - Attorney (Oklahoma City, OK), Former Minority Leader Oklahoma House of Representatives, Author: “Oklahoma’s Most Notorious Crimes”
- Ross Swimmer - Former Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation, Former Special Trustee for American Indians at the U.S. Department of the Interior
- Dr. Shawn Roberson, Ph.D. - Licensed Psychologist (Edmond, Oklahoma), Forensic psychologist for over 20 years, Conducted thousands of criminal-forensic evaluations across Oklahoma, including Oklahoma State Penitentiary (where Gene Leroy Hart died), drshawnroberson.com
- James Powell - Former Senior Agent, Oklahoma State Bureau Of Investigation, Former Air Force Office of Special Investigations Agent, Former Senior Intelligence Security Advisor for the Office of Military Commissions at Joint Task Force Guantanamo, Owner: "The Investigator, LLC"
- Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan"
- Faith Phillips - Cherokee Screenwriter, Author: “Now I Lay Me Down”, Website: ReadBooksBy.Faith, Twitter: @phillips_faith, Facebook: “Faith Phillips”
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Summer camp. What's not to love?
You got a late to swim in trails, to hike marshmallows,
to roast around the campfire, swapping scary stories. But this
is not a scary campfire story. Three little girls ages eight,
(00:33):
nine and ten dragged from ten number seven, raped and murdered.
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us here at Fox Nation and series X
one eleven. We follow the exclusive new Fox Nation series
The Girl Scout and Murders all week on Crime Stories.
(00:55):
First of all, take a listen to this. High school
students in Faith Philip's creative writing class launched a podcast
called forty year Old Justice. We wanted to speak with
law enforcement about the crime scene and the investigation. But
over forty years later, many of the detectives and law
enforcement have passed away. So I posted about it on
(01:17):
my social media and a couple of days later, I
got contacted by this mysterious person in my direct messages,
and this person said, if your students are looking into
the Girl Scout murders, there's someone you need to talk to.
Paul Smith, who was the sheriff of May's County in
nineteen eighty. He was elected after Pete Weaver left office.
(01:38):
He was ninety seven years old, living in a retirement home,
and he had some story he wanted to talk to
me about. Now I remember. The backdrop is that Jane
Hart was tried for the three rapes and murders of
the little girls, but was acquitted by a jury a
lot of evidence that jury never heard. But now an
(02:03):
investigation into possible suspects. With me, you were just hearing
her voice. Faith Phillips, Cherokee, screenwriter and author of Now
I Lay Me Down. So you start a podcast on
this and you put it out there on social media
that you are really investigating the Girl Scout and martyrs.
What happens is then, Faith, it was really an unbelievable story. Honestly,
(02:27):
my students had actually done the research on the case
and put the podcast out in the community, and because
I have somewhat of a following of my books on
social media, it really caused a stir. And so I
received a direct message from someone who said, if your
students are looking into the Girl Scout murders, there's someone
you really need to speak with. And I found this
(02:50):
incredibly curious because I was familiar with the case, of course,
but I really didn't think that there was any new
information to be had out there. And I talked about
it with my husband and we both agreed, well, we
should at least go here this person out. And the
person was Paul Smith. He was ninety seven years old
in a retirement home, and I brought my computer, I
(03:13):
brought my laptop there and I just recorded his story,
which was one of the most extraordinary stories I've ever heard.
What was his story? The story he told me was
that when he took office in sheriff, he campaigned to
solve a girl Scout murders. And he told me that
in the course of that investigation, he went and interviewed
a man in prison who had been sent there for
(03:36):
exposing himself to children on the creek. And this man
was known in the community as a predator and a
torture of animals. And this man told Paul Smith that
he and two other people had been responsible for the murders,
that they had gone to the girl Scout camp on
the night of June twelfth, and that they attacked girls
(04:00):
inside the tent. So it was it was the startling
confession from a person who claimed to have been there
and been with two other people. Okay, I want to
pick apart what you just said. Yes with a fine tooth. Come.
So you get a message after you put it out
there about this podcast and that you want to reopen
the case and investigate it, telling you that you need
(04:22):
to go see this person in a retirement home. And
it turns out to be Paul Smith, the sheriff of
May's County in nineteen eighty and the sheriff tells you,
would you repeat that again? Very slowly faked phillips. Sure.
The sheriff tolds me that when he takes office in
(04:43):
nineteen eighty, in the course of his investigation of the
girl Scout murders, he goes to interview this man in
prison named Buddy Bristol. And Buddy Bristol is known in
the community as a sexual predator and a person who's
known to torture animal. He shot his own dog and
so he's just not a good person. And this man
(05:07):
confesses to Paul Smith that he was there on June twelfth,
in the early morning hours of June thirteenth, with two
other men, and that those were the three people who
attacked the girls in the tea. Well, I'm very curious.
So you got Buddy Bristol behind bars now confessing to
(05:29):
the murtyrs of the three little girls. Is that correct?
That's correct. It was a verbal confession to Paul Smith
after Paul Smith had visited him three or four times
behind bars. I'm curious. I know that the murders occurred
in June of nineteen seventy seven, right at the beginning
of Girl Scout camp season. And I know that Paul
(05:51):
Smith was a sheriff in nineteen eighty. Was he the
sheriff in seventy seven? Paul Smith was not the sheriff
in nineteen seventy seven. Then Paul Smith was a police
officer in Locust Grove at the time of the murders,
and then he ran for sheriff in nineteen eighty. Let
me go out to doctor Shawn Robertson, joining US licensed
psychologist out of Edmund, Oklahoma. You can find Sean at
(06:15):
doctor Shawn Robertson dot com. He also does forensic evaluations
at the Oklahoma State Penitentiary where Jean Leroy Heart was housed.
Doctor Robertson, thank you for being with us doctor Robertson.
And I'm not saying Buddy Brissell was telling the truth
or not. What I am saying is, when someone is
(06:36):
behind bars, have you ever seen the phenomena of them
confessing to things they didn't do or trying to enhance
a crime that they committed. I just I guess for
street cred. Oh. Absolutely, this is a This is an
area and emerging area of research in forensic psychology over
(06:56):
the past decade decade and a half, and that is
the phenomenon of false confessions. There are many, many known
false confessions, particularly in high profile cases you see like
the John Benet Ramsey case. Even going back to the twenties,
the Lendbergh baby kidnapping, people came out of the world
(07:17):
work to falsely confess. So anytime you hear a confession
of somebody, you've got a question. Well, particularly somebody in prison.
I mean that might get him more time, that might
get him the death penalty. What benefits him in freely
providing this confession? Did he do it for notoriety? Did
he do it because he thought it would gain him something?
(07:41):
Was he coerced in some way? You know, without corroborating evidence,
you've really got to question that, and you got to
look at it, and they're behind bars, possibly for life,
already on another offense. Why volunteer this information? Do they
get better housing? Do they get moved out of their
GP general population sale somewhere else? Do they go back
and forth to court? Do they get pressed? What do
(08:03):
they what could they possibly get out of it? But
the reality is to k Fredus joining Us, the former
minority leader in the Oklahoma House of Representatives, an author
of Oklahoma's most notorious crimes, knt Fredus. Maybe he was
confessing to yet any number of benefits, or maybe he
was telling the truth. What if anything corroborates Buddy Bristol's story, Well,
(08:28):
there quite a few things corroborate that someone other than
Hart was involved in it or was solely involved in it.
Earlier in the evening or in the night on the
night of the crime, a girl in another tenth saw
someone open the tent flap and look in and later
(08:50):
described that person as not being hard They're also, as
we've mentioned before, there were also evidenced at the at
the site of the crime that other people were there
in in the form of a bloody footprint. That was
not hard, a bootprint that was not hard, and a
(09:14):
fingerprint on the flashlight that was found there that was
not hard. But yet they were all involved in the crime.
Does any of that link back to Bristol? Not at
the time. I would also mention Nancy that I research
has shown that eyewitness testimony is highly unreliable, particularly a
(09:35):
child in the dark saying that that was not heart.
That's got to be questioned. And then and the other evidence,
you know, was the crime scene walked into, was the
fingerprint identified as anybody else's or was it just a smudge.
I don't know that those things necessarily rule it out.
And I'd like to jump in here too and say
(09:55):
I agree. I had all of these same thoughts when
Paul told me this story. I found it interesting, but
I didn't know what to do with this information. I
wasn't sure if it was something that needed to go
to law enforcement. I felt like, and who knows, he
seemed like he was incredibly intelligent and all there for
a ninety seven year old, especially, but I did think,
(10:19):
I don't know, maybe we'll wait and just kind of
sit on this for a while. And then that's when
this interesting chain of event started happening that started to
verify a lot of the things that he had said. Okay,
well let's do that. What can you tell me any
independent eminence whatsoever? And that corrob Race Buddy Bristol's story. Well,
(10:39):
I got this information from Paul Smith. And then the
following week I met with a local who was fifteen
years old on at the time of the crime. And
this local told me that she was writing a book
about the Girl Scout murders. And so I said, well,
that's interesting because I just met with a gentleman last
(11:00):
week who had some information. His name is Paul Smith.
And she stopped me and she said, Paul Smith is
still alive. Let me tell you who who everybody in
the community has known that. She said, let me tell
you the names of people that people in this community
have been repeating for years. And I said, okay, I
(11:20):
didn't give her the names that Paul given me, and
she repeated the same names that Paul Smith had told me. Okay,
you know what, I'm that No, the fact that somebody
told somebody told somebody in the community and I can't
find them. That is probably Buddy Bristol. I mean, it's nothing, nothing,
that's right, that's right. We're still in kind of an
(11:44):
uncertain We're still an uncertain territory. Yeah, he did it.
He's a per that ain't continent fate that will never
cut it. So is there any independent corroboration for his claim?
A day late and a dollar short. Now that everything's
winding down, he says, oh, yeah, I did it. Anything, Yes.
(12:04):
So then I went home to my husband that night,
A poured myself a glass of wine, and I said,
you know, this is really strange, these things that are happening.
And I got a text out of the blue, and
it was from this woman, Jennifer Morrison, and she had
just received a letter that a man had written on
his deathbed and he wrote those same three names as
(12:26):
being involved in the Girl Scout murders. And so at
this point, I have three different sources of information. I
didn't know if it was anything that could be acted upon,
but I did know as a responsible citizen that it
was my responsibility at that time to take this information
to law enforcement and let them run it down. Okay,
what if anything happened, I'm still giving the same thing.
(12:48):
I think he did it. He's the purv. So he
did it. That's not evidence. What if anything was uncovered
about Buddy Bristol. What's uncovered about Buddy Bristol, these three
different sources of information his pattern of behavior. When when
he was sentenced to prison, he had exposed himself to
(13:09):
little children playing on the creek less than a mile
from the site of Camp Scott, Okay. So that's the
same thing you told me to start with. Buddy Bristol
exposed himself to children playing in the creek. There's a
big leap going from being, you know, an exposure to
raith and murder of three children. That's there's a lot
(13:30):
of sex offenders to expose themselves, Doctor Robinson, You're right.
That's why I'm really trying to dig in and find
out what if anything corroborates the possibility Bristol is a
triple killer. Time stories with Nancy Grace. I want to
(14:00):
go to a special guest joining us right now. It's
Ross Swimmer, the former Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation,
former Special Trustee for American Indians at the US Department
of the Interior. Ross, thank you so much for being
with us. Sure now, Ross, as I recall you were
(14:21):
the chief of the Cherokee Nation in nineteen seventy seven,
that's correct. Do you believe the Cherokee Nation tried to
protect gene Hart? Absolutely not. What did tried to do
was to provide make sure that he had a defense
(14:42):
available to him so that he could have an attorney.
But there was no effort on the tribes part to
do anything as far as the accusation. He was secured
in some location in the southeastern part of the Cherokee
(15:06):
Nation by some people before the trial that had nothing
to do with the Cherokee Nation as such. You know,
we were not informed in any way as far as
his location. But when he was brought to trial, I
wanted to be sure that he had an adequate defense.
(15:28):
It didn't seem you know, we talked about properating evidence.
It didn't seem like there was very much regarding heart either,
and that at least it needed to be challenged. Whatever
the cher Pete Weaver was going to present it. Nancy, Nancy,
can I cut in here? The police, This is herb Weaver.
Pete Son I was a school teacher and the coach
(15:53):
at Locust Grove. This horrible incident happened, and in defense
of the chief. He's correct that the tribe did not
try to protect him in any way. Excuse me, but
(16:15):
the citizens of Locust Grove, they were very protective of
Jane Hart. I had his son in class, and it
was to the point I was getting death threats. I mean,
(16:36):
I'm gonna say seventy eighty percent of the community looked
at him as a football hero. And I'm confident that
the tribe itself did not try to protect him. They
just wanted to make sure he was getting a fair
tribe understood. And believe me, former principal Chief Jerokee Nation
(17:00):
Ross Swimmer does not need a defense of any type.
I have carefully researched everything he has said regarding this
in the past. Ross. What do you make of gene
Hart's acquittal, Well, it's hard to make anything of it
other than the jury simply didn't find evidence sufficient to convicting.
(17:26):
And but hearsay about it the trial was that some
evidence introduced appeared to be either made up or found
or wasn't wasn't appropriate, and that that had a big
influence on the jury. Let's go to James Powell on
(17:46):
that former senior agent with the Oklahoma Ure of investigation.
You can find him at the investigator LLC James. Thank
you for being with us. You know we keep hearing
about no evidence at trial, but there had to be
evidence to take the case to trial. Yes, ma'am, it was,
(18:08):
and of course May's kind of Sheriff's office. I don't
want to try to minimize all the effort they put
into trying to get this case resolved. They spent thousands
of hours on it. Most of the evidence that was
admitted that trial has already pretty much been well documented.
There wasn't a lot. Jeane was living about a mile
from the crime scene. He had previous convictions. I know
(18:32):
that the Sheriff's interested in him because he was a
sex offender and he'd escaped from the JAY. As far
as the actual evidence, there wasn't. I think you mentioned yesterday.
It was discussed yesterday. There was some blood evidence that
pointed to a Native American. There was some hairy evidence
which pointed to a Native Americans. As a forensics will
(18:53):
tell you receive as the stuff that we would have
to day. You got to remember this was back in
nine seventy seven. Yeah, you're right, an awful lot has
been learning since then. It sure has to. Joseph Scott Morgan,
Professor Forensics, jacksonvill State University and author of Blood Beneath
My Feet on Amazon. Joe Scott in nineteen eighty nine.
I don't know if everyone's familiar with this, but DNA
(19:16):
was conducted to show three of the five probes taken
from the scene of them murders, from the girls bodies
and from the scene matched hearts DNA. DNA from one
and seventy seven hundred Native Americans would have obtained the
same results. Joe Scott Morgan, What if anything does that mean? Well,
(19:41):
it means that you're putting them in the ballpark. But
it's that the testing that was done back then, it's
not finally two, was not as finally tuned as it
is today exactly. And if that evidence was still viable,
if they still had some remnant of it, if it
wasn't destructive destructive what's called destructive testing, if they still
had some sample, there might be something that they could
(20:03):
go back into. Well, there's another lead, Joe Scott. It
has to do with a school bus. Take a listen.
I was sitting on the bench and father the Wilson
Cunningham sung and as I sat there, I saw these
big buses go through as soon Karen, a little girl
(20:24):
scouts following the bus, but it was the daughter super
being a dark one. There may have been somebody in
the back that I could not identify, and I'm not
even sure, but the two in front I recognize because
I had had problems with them before. I had arrusted
(20:49):
that driver a number of times. And to Faith Phillips
joining us Cherokee screenwriter and author, who was in the car?
That would be Buddy Bristol and one of our other
named suspects that I had obtained from these three different sources.
And the reason why that car is so crucial is
because the confession that Buddy provided said that after they
(21:11):
committed the crime, they put the murder weapons and bloody
clothes in this Dodge super Bee and they pushed it
off into the Grand River, which is just a couple
of miles south of where the crime occurred. So we
still just have this oral confession and we don't really
have any corroborating information. Well, was the Dodge Bay found.
The Dodge b has never been found, But in the
(21:34):
course of the investigation, we found out that after nineteen
seventy seven. That Dodge super Bee has never been tagged
again in the state of Oklahoma or the United States,
and it is never seen again by locals after that night,
which seemingly would confirm that it was sunk down a
(21:55):
river in a body of water. Guys, take a listen
to more. Buddy Bridge was a white Locust Grove resident
with a long rap sheet. According to locals, she was
known for stocking young girls and torturing animals. After repeated
visits to the prison to interview Buddy, Sheriff Paul Smith
(22:16):
gets something extraordinary, a verbal confession. They had been drinking
beer and doing rugs for three straight days. He said
they were a little money and they were thinking of
some white they could raise. The Caysian decided the chapperal
(22:37):
homes for those girls out there would probably be loaded
a bit of money. Bristol said. They waited tools sometime
after midnight, and so they hit the ten. They all
just hit the door at the same time. One had
a crow bar, one had a roofing hammer. When you
(22:58):
analyze a statement for veracity or truthfulness, you look at
richness of detail. Is there a lot of detail to
their story? Detail? They maybe could not make up or fabricate.
There's more and there's something very telling and what Buddy
(23:19):
Bristol allegedly said, listen. According to Paul's story, Bristol told
him that two of them entered the tent from the back.
One hit Laurie Farmer and one hit Michelle guzz but
Denise Milner bolted out the front of the tent and
the third person caught her as she was trying to
make a run for it, and she got out the door.
(23:41):
They had to go grab her, but she's the one
that they tied that Corerunrnee. Bristol told Paul that while
the other men sexually attacked the girls, Buddy himself claimed
not to have taken part. He said Laurie and Michelle
died quickly, but Denise remained alive. Then they took all
(24:02):
three girls, placed them in the road, and strangled Denise
where she lay. According to the confession, the three men
intended to dispose of the bodies elsewhere, some wanting them,
made a noise or an alarm, dropped them on and all.
But it's scir them. They dropped those girls. They got
(24:29):
in the super bee and one of the suspects was
given the job of going to dump the vehicle, the
murder weapons, and the bloody clothes, and that super Bee
was supposedly pushed into a river a few miles from
Camp Scott. Guys, I'm reeling right now, and I'll tell
you why, because a lot of what Buddy Bristol allegedly
(24:51):
said jives lines up with the forensic evidence. Well it does.
It was the autopsy showed that Denise Milner was strangled
while the other two were killed with a bload of
the head. So that's consistent. The other thing that is
consistent with this, and I've always questioned it, how could
(25:14):
one individual do this crime without having somebody discovered it.
When two or three people are doing the crime, they've
got control of all three of the girls. But for
Heart to have gone in there and be able to
do that, it was really strange that he didn't have
(25:35):
an accomplish to James Powell, former senior agent with Oklahoma
year of investigation at the Investigator LLC, James, there's no
telling how many defendants you have suspects that you have interrogated.
And there's one thing I've noticed over and over and
over in cases where there is a rape and a
(25:55):
murder very often. I mean, it's amazingly how often a
purple say, well, yeah, I shot her, but I didn't
rape her, Like it's better to have shot the victim
than to have raped the victim. And I've seen it
so many times that when Buddy Bristol allegedly says, oh, yeah,
(26:20):
I was there, and I was there when the girls
were murdered, but I didn't rape them, I am telling you,
James Powell, that actually has a ring of truth in it.
Oh yes, ma'am. It does. And I've found that that's
pretty consistent too with some of the cases that I've
worked where for whatever reason, a male suspect doesn't want
to be called a rapist, but I guess and their
(26:43):
warked way of thinking being a killer or a murder
sort of increases what we used to say. They're a
lot or those I think you pointed out their street creds.
I'll find that that's what wouldn't necessarily mean he wasn't
there just because he says he didn't participate in the rate.
You know, Jessica Morgan with me forensics expert, what he's
saying if he said this, and I have no reason
(27:03):
to disbelieve the sheriff that said it, Paul Smith. His
story lines up with how the little girl's bodies that
were found, and we heard from a camp counselor that
said she woke up and heard this sound and she
couldn't really identify it as she went and found the
girls there like they had just been left there. That
(27:26):
goes along with this account, so Scott the forensics, Yeah,
it does. And you know, we go back to this.
You know, we mentioned this footprint that didn't match up
with hearts as well, and that's kind of compelling for me.
I think that one of the things that I would
like to know because I heard that, you know, there
was some talk that the girls, the remaining girls that
were the campers, had been removed from the camp in
(27:49):
order to take them away from this area. And this happens,
and did happen quite a bit infamously, it happened in
the Terry Bower's case up in Pennsylvania. But my issue
is this, I would like to know how thoroughly that
scene was searched at that moment. Did they literally break
down every structure that was out there, take every pair
(28:13):
of shoes that were out there, in any shoes from
anybody that was associated with this event period, and even
as it applies to the police office that were out
there that may have left tracks behind, to faint Phillips
joining us who lost his reinvestigation. What do you make
Buddy Bristol's confession? What I make of it is that
(28:33):
this is information that really needs to be run down.
And that was really my intention, particularly after I got
the letter, as I thought, We've got to get this
to law enforcement professionals. I'm a writer, I'm just a
geek that sits in the dark and writes books. This
needs to go to someone who can actually take action
and make something happen. Joining us is Ross a Swimmer,
(28:54):
a former principal chief of the Cherokee Nation. Ross, what
do you make the girl Scout murders and what if
any impact that had or has on the Cherokee Nation. Well,
obviously it had an impact because of where it occurred.
It was in the heart of the Cherokee Nation, and
(29:16):
the accused was Cherokee, and that was mentioned several times,
so it was you know, something that's not common. We
don't think within within our tribe. This isn't something that's uh,
that's very common and in fact, even with the Heart
(29:38):
having been convicted of sex crime, it had nothing to
do with children. And the story going around that we
were main uh know something about was that at one
point Heart literally walked out of the jail. They didn't
try to escape. It just uh wasn't that big a
deal because it had something to do with his girlfriend. Oh,
(30:02):
I thought he was convicted of raping two pregnant women.
I haven't heard that, so it could be. I don't know,
but it was not children. And and I think there
was some kind of relationship with the women that had
accused him. I don't know anything about that. What about that,
Faith Phillips, That is something that I can't I can't
(30:24):
effectively speak on. That is a rumor that I had heard.
But the fact is that he did plead guilty to
the crime. Yeah, so we know that much. Well, are
there other alleged suspects? Time stories with Nancy Grace, with
(30:55):
me Herb Weaver or this is Sheriff Weaver's son her
How did all this affect you? Well, it was a
horrible event to start with. I ended up having to
quit my job as a teacher coach because I was
getting death threads. But why you Why would you get
(31:16):
a death threat because sheriff for you, Weaver was my
dad and all the community, most of the community was
behind Jean Hart, and so they looked at me as
an enemy. And I want them back up just a
minute on that prior conviction on the rape charges. To
(31:37):
my knowledge, there was no commitment between Hart and those
two ladies he raped at the Burgess River. My dad
told me that he picked them up at a bar
in Tulsa and took him out on the Burgess River
on four twelve and raped them, tied them up in
the same fashion that these little girls were tied in
(31:59):
a very and that is correct. He did not know
those women as far as my investigation had determined. They
were tied up and left and they were able to
get loose an escape, So it's not as if they
were just released or they were able to go or
immediately to the Sheriff's office. I think he had intended
on him to die out there, not only that they
were pregnant, tied up, left out there to die. And
(32:21):
even if he had known them, which no evidence supports,
that gossip, that makes it all worse. I don't see
oh he knew them. That's no defense. In my mind.
That makes it even worse. You were raping and terrorizing someone,
you know, so that doesn't help anything. Yeah, I'm not
(32:44):
suggesting it was a defense. I'm questioning, does that crime
didn't have anything to do with children, regardless of where
women were pregnant or not. Yes, they were pregnant. Yes,
there were two of them. Yes, it is a sex offense.
And also the unique knot that was used to tie
these women up was the same knot used found in
(33:07):
the girl scout's tent. Now does that previous a killer? No,
it does not. It's piece of circumstantial evidence, but that's
not all the evidence. Take a listen to this. According
to the letter writer, one of Paul's suspects was a pedophile,
and it was witnessed a day or two before that,
(33:28):
talking and laughing that they had found a place that
they could station themselves near where the girls showered. In
addition to revealing that the suspects spied on the young
girls in the days prior to June twelfth, the letter
identified a fourth man with the group in the early
morning hours before the murders, who was also a known pedophile. Okay,
(33:51):
now that, in my mind is somewhat conflicting. Faith Phillips
in the first theory is that they were not interested
in sex little girls, that they were going to knock
the place off to try to find out if there
were valuables belonging to the counselors or anybody else they
could steal. Okay, now I'm hearing there were actually pedophiles
(34:11):
and been hanging around watching the girls go in and
out of the shower prior to June twelve. Wasn't June
twelve the first week of camp. It is very confusing,
and the facts are incredibly complicated, and I think that
helps to explain why this case has not officially been
closed for forty five years, because there's a lot of
conflicting evidence. Absolutely, faith, absolutely go ahead. When I heard
(34:36):
Paul Smith tell me, and Paul Smith is an Upstate
he was an incredible man, a military hero and a
servant of this nation, and so he absolutely deserved my respect.
But the one thing I really had a hard time
believing about the confession he told me came from Buddy.
Bristol was where he said we went there to rob
(34:56):
the camp counselors. Well, I don't believe that for a second. Yeah. Well,
and very often defendants try to cover up their desire
to rape children if they're pedophiles, and they'll come up
with something else. So I could see him saying, we
just went to rob and then whoop, so we raped
and murdered three little girls. Listen to more, I began
(35:16):
to see indications that married up with Paul's account that
multiple people had been involved in the murders. I read
about a vehicle that had been parked outside Camp Scott's
gate facing west with four people inside. That gate was
in such a remote area, why would anyone be parked
(35:38):
out there at night during a thunderstorm? I had read
where a camper reported that she saw several men late
that night gathered near the latrine, with at least one
of the men wearing military style boots otherwise known as
jungle boots. The camper heard them talking and hid in
(35:58):
her sleeping bag. Multiple people, including counselors and campers, reported
that they had been followed through the woods and that
they'd encountered strangers on the trails that should not have
been authorized to be there. Strangers on the trail that
were not authorized to be there and more. I walked
(36:20):
out to the truck and I set the files in
the backseat and I just lifted up the first file
on top, and it was one of the photos of
the little girls, and I just slammed it down. And
(36:41):
that's when I realized that there was much more in
this collection of files than I had any idea. When
I went through those files, I came across the most
difficult thing I've ever seen in my life. To you,
Faith Phillips explained to me what this picture a little
(37:04):
girl was and where you found it. Well, that's why
I think Herb Weaver is one of many heroes in
this story, because he had this box of files that
his father, Sheriff Weaver, had maintained all these years, and
he reached out to me through Jennifer Morrison and said
that he had some files. Well, Nancy, I just thought
(37:25):
that it was the actual trial transcripts, because for whatever reason,
in the state of Oklahoma, they aren't required to maintain
trial transcripts when the defendants acquitted, so I had not
been able to read the actual child transcripts. I thought
I was going to Herb's house to pick those up.
And I got there and when I opened them up,
what I found was the actual photographs of the little girls,
(37:50):
of their injuries, crime scene fatos of the little girls,
Herb Weaver joining us, Sheriff Weaver's son. Did you have
any idea everything that was in that box? No? I didn't.
My mother had always told me that it was the
transcript of the trial, and I thought that would be
good for Faith to have. I had never looked in
(38:12):
that box before, and the first recollection I had that
there were photos, handwritten notes from my dad came from
Faith after she opened it and looked at it and
in her fans, she told me to secure that box
(38:33):
and not let it get out into the public media.
One moment, one action, sending that box of old trial
notes and transcripts to Faith Phillips has changed the course
of this investigation. Are their other killers? And will there
(38:57):
ever be justice for three Girl Scouts? We follow the
very latest developments in the brand new Fox Nation series
The Girls Scout Murders here at Crime Stories all week tomorrow,
revealing family secrets come to light, plus a phone call
(39:18):
that changes everything. We wait as justice unfals. Nancy Grace
Crime Story signing off goodbye for
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Summer camp. What's not to love?
You got a late to swim in trails, to hike marshmallows,
to roast around the campfire, swapping scary stories. But this
is not a scary campfire story. Three little girls ages eight,
(00:33):
nine and ten dragged from ten number seven, raped and murdered.
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us here at Fox Nation and series X
one eleven. We follow the exclusive new Fox Nation series
The Girl Scout and Murders all week on Crime Stories.
(00:55):
First of all, take a listen to this. High school
students in Faith Philip's creative writing class launched a podcast
called forty year Old Justice. We wanted to speak with
law enforcement about the crime scene and the investigation. But
over forty years later, many of the detectives and law
enforcement have passed away. So I posted about it on
(01:17):
my social media and a couple of days later, I
got contacted by this mysterious person in my direct messages,
and this person said, if your students are looking into
the Girl Scout murders, there's someone you need to talk to.
Paul Smith, who was the sheriff of May's County in
nineteen eighty. He was elected after Pete Weaver left office.
(01:38):
He was ninety seven years old, living in a retirement home,
and he had some story he wanted to talk to
me about. Now I remember. The backdrop is that Jane
Hart was tried for the three rapes and murders of
the little girls, but was acquitted by a jury a
lot of evidence that jury never heard. But now an
(02:03):
investigation into possible suspects. With me, you were just hearing
her voice. Faith Phillips, Cherokee, screenwriter and author of Now
I Lay Me Down. So you start a podcast on
this and you put it out there on social media
that you are really investigating the Girl Scout and martyrs.
What happens is then, Faith, it was really an unbelievable story. Honestly,
(02:27):
my students had actually done the research on the case
and put the podcast out in the community, and because
I have somewhat of a following of my books on
social media, it really caused a stir. And so I
received a direct message from someone who said, if your
students are looking into the Girl Scout murders, there's someone
you really need to speak with. And I found this
(02:50):
incredibly curious because I was familiar with the case, of course,
but I really didn't think that there was any new
information to be had out there. And I talked about
it with my husband and we both agreed, well, we
should at least go here this person out. And the
person was Paul Smith. He was ninety seven years old
in a retirement home, and I brought my computer, I
(03:13):
brought my laptop there and I just recorded his story,
which was one of the most extraordinary stories I've ever heard.
What was his story? The story he told me was
that when he took office in sheriff, he campaigned to
solve a girl Scout murders. And he told me that
in the course of that investigation, he went and interviewed
a man in prison who had been sent there for
(03:36):
exposing himself to children on the creek. And this man
was known in the community as a predator and a
torture of animals. And this man told Paul Smith that
he and two other people had been responsible for the murders,
that they had gone to the girl Scout camp on
the night of June twelfth, and that they attacked girls
(04:00):
inside the tent. So it was it was the startling
confession from a person who claimed to have been there
and been with two other people. Okay, I want to
pick apart what you just said. Yes with a fine tooth. Come.
So you get a message after you put it out
there about this podcast and that you want to reopen
the case and investigate it, telling you that you need
(04:22):
to go see this person in a retirement home. And
it turns out to be Paul Smith, the sheriff of
May's County in nineteen eighty and the sheriff tells you,
would you repeat that again? Very slowly faked phillips. Sure.
The sheriff tolds me that when he takes office in
(04:43):
nineteen eighty, in the course of his investigation of the
girl Scout murders, he goes to interview this man in
prison named Buddy Bristol. And Buddy Bristol is known in
the community as a sexual predator and a person who's
known to torture animal. He shot his own dog and
so he's just not a good person. And this man
(05:07):
confesses to Paul Smith that he was there on June twelfth,
in the early morning hours of June thirteenth, with two
other men, and that those were the three people who
attacked the girls in the tea. Well, I'm very curious.
So you got Buddy Bristol behind bars now confessing to
(05:29):
the murtyrs of the three little girls. Is that correct?
That's correct. It was a verbal confession to Paul Smith
after Paul Smith had visited him three or four times
behind bars. I'm curious. I know that the murders occurred
in June of nineteen seventy seven, right at the beginning
of Girl Scout camp season. And I know that Paul
(05:51):
Smith was a sheriff in nineteen eighty. Was he the
sheriff in seventy seven? Paul Smith was not the sheriff
in nineteen seventy seven. Then Paul Smith was a police
officer in Locust Grove at the time of the murders,
and then he ran for sheriff in nineteen eighty. Let
me go out to doctor Shawn Robertson, joining US licensed
psychologist out of Edmund, Oklahoma. You can find Sean at
(06:15):
doctor Shawn Robertson dot com. He also does forensic evaluations
at the Oklahoma State Penitentiary where Jean Leroy Heart was housed.
Doctor Robertson, thank you for being with us doctor Robertson.
And I'm not saying Buddy Brissell was telling the truth
or not. What I am saying is, when someone is
(06:36):
behind bars, have you ever seen the phenomena of them
confessing to things they didn't do or trying to enhance
a crime that they committed. I just I guess for
street cred. Oh. Absolutely, this is a This is an
area and emerging area of research in forensic psychology over
(06:56):
the past decade decade and a half, and that is
the phenomenon of false confessions. There are many, many known
false confessions, particularly in high profile cases you see like
the John Benet Ramsey case. Even going back to the twenties,
the Lendbergh baby kidnapping, people came out of the world
(07:17):
work to falsely confess. So anytime you hear a confession
of somebody, you've got a question. Well, particularly somebody in prison.
I mean that might get him more time, that might
get him the death penalty. What benefits him in freely
providing this confession? Did he do it for notoriety? Did
he do it because he thought it would gain him something?
(07:41):
Was he coerced in some way? You know, without corroborating evidence,
you've really got to question that, and you got to
look at it, and they're behind bars, possibly for life,
already on another offense. Why volunteer this information? Do they
get better housing? Do they get moved out of their
GP general population sale somewhere else? Do they go back
and forth to court? Do they get pressed? What do
(08:03):
they what could they possibly get out of it? But
the reality is to k Fredus joining Us, the former
minority leader in the Oklahoma House of Representatives, an author
of Oklahoma's most notorious crimes, knt Fredus. Maybe he was
confessing to yet any number of benefits, or maybe he
was telling the truth. What if anything corroborates Buddy Bristol's story, Well,
(08:28):
there quite a few things corroborate that someone other than
Hart was involved in it or was solely involved in it.
Earlier in the evening or in the night on the
night of the crime, a girl in another tenth saw
someone open the tent flap and look in and later
(08:50):
described that person as not being hard They're also, as
we've mentioned before, there were also evidenced at the at
the site of the crime that other people were there
in in the form of a bloody footprint. That was
not hard, a bootprint that was not hard, and a
(09:14):
fingerprint on the flashlight that was found there that was
not hard. But yet they were all involved in the crime.
Does any of that link back to Bristol? Not at
the time. I would also mention Nancy that I research
has shown that eyewitness testimony is highly unreliable, particularly a
(09:35):
child in the dark saying that that was not heart.
That's got to be questioned. And then and the other evidence,
you know, was the crime scene walked into, was the
fingerprint identified as anybody else's or was it just a smudge.
I don't know that those things necessarily rule it out.
And I'd like to jump in here too and say
(09:55):
I agree. I had all of these same thoughts when
Paul told me this story. I found it interesting, but
I didn't know what to do with this information. I
wasn't sure if it was something that needed to go
to law enforcement. I felt like, and who knows, he
seemed like he was incredibly intelligent and all there for
a ninety seven year old, especially, but I did think,
(10:19):
I don't know, maybe we'll wait and just kind of
sit on this for a while. And then that's when
this interesting chain of event started happening that started to
verify a lot of the things that he had said. Okay,
well let's do that. What can you tell me any
independent eminence whatsoever? And that corrob Race Buddy Bristol's story. Well,
(10:39):
I got this information from Paul Smith. And then the
following week I met with a local who was fifteen
years old on at the time of the crime. And
this local told me that she was writing a book
about the Girl Scout murders. And so I said, well,
that's interesting because I just met with a gentleman last
(11:00):
week who had some information. His name is Paul Smith.
And she stopped me and she said, Paul Smith is
still alive. Let me tell you who who everybody in
the community has known that. She said, let me tell
you the names of people that people in this community
have been repeating for years. And I said, okay, I
(11:20):
didn't give her the names that Paul given me, and
she repeated the same names that Paul Smith had told me. Okay,
you know what, I'm that No, the fact that somebody
told somebody told somebody in the community and I can't
find them. That is probably Buddy Bristol. I mean, it's nothing, nothing,
that's right, that's right. We're still in kind of an
(11:44):
uncertain We're still an uncertain territory. Yeah, he did it.
He's a per that ain't continent fate that will never
cut it. So is there any independent corroboration for his claim?
A day late and a dollar short. Now that everything's
winding down, he says, oh, yeah, I did it. Anything, Yes.
(12:04):
So then I went home to my husband that night,
A poured myself a glass of wine, and I said,
you know, this is really strange, these things that are happening.
And I got a text out of the blue, and
it was from this woman, Jennifer Morrison, and she had
just received a letter that a man had written on
his deathbed and he wrote those same three names as
(12:26):
being involved in the Girl Scout murders. And so at
this point, I have three different sources of information. I
didn't know if it was anything that could be acted upon,
but I did know as a responsible citizen that it
was my responsibility at that time to take this information
to law enforcement and let them run it down. Okay,
what if anything happened, I'm still giving the same thing.
(12:48):
I think he did it. He's the purv. So he
did it. That's not evidence. What if anything was uncovered
about Buddy Bristol. What's uncovered about Buddy Bristol, these three
different sources of information his pattern of behavior. When when
he was sentenced to prison, he had exposed himself to
(13:09):
little children playing on the creek less than a mile
from the site of Camp Scott, Okay. So that's the
same thing you told me to start with. Buddy Bristol
exposed himself to children playing in the creek. There's a
big leap going from being, you know, an exposure to
raith and murder of three children. That's there's a lot
(13:30):
of sex offenders to expose themselves, Doctor Robinson, You're right.
That's why I'm really trying to dig in and find
out what if anything corroborates the possibility Bristol is a
triple killer. Time stories with Nancy Grace. I want to
(14:00):
go to a special guest joining us right now. It's
Ross Swimmer, the former Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation,
former Special Trustee for American Indians at the US Department
of the Interior. Ross, thank you so much for being
with us. Sure now, Ross, as I recall you were
(14:21):
the chief of the Cherokee Nation in nineteen seventy seven,
that's correct. Do you believe the Cherokee Nation tried to
protect gene Hart? Absolutely not. What did tried to do
was to provide make sure that he had a defense
(14:42):
available to him so that he could have an attorney.
But there was no effort on the tribes part to
do anything as far as the accusation. He was secured
in some location in the southeastern part of the Cherokee
(15:06):
Nation by some people before the trial that had nothing
to do with the Cherokee Nation as such. You know,
we were not informed in any way as far as
his location. But when he was brought to trial, I
wanted to be sure that he had an adequate defense.
(15:28):
It didn't seem you know, we talked about properating evidence.
It didn't seem like there was very much regarding heart either,
and that at least it needed to be challenged. Whatever
the cher Pete Weaver was going to present it. Nancy, Nancy,
can I cut in here? The police, This is herb Weaver.
Pete Son I was a school teacher and the coach
(15:53):
at Locust Grove. This horrible incident happened, and in defense
of the chief. He's correct that the tribe did not
try to protect him in any way. Excuse me, but
(16:15):
the citizens of Locust Grove, they were very protective of
Jane Hart. I had his son in class, and it
was to the point I was getting death threats. I mean,
(16:36):
I'm gonna say seventy eighty percent of the community looked
at him as a football hero. And I'm confident that
the tribe itself did not try to protect him. They
just wanted to make sure he was getting a fair
tribe understood. And believe me, former principal Chief Jerokee Nation
(17:00):
Ross Swimmer does not need a defense of any type.
I have carefully researched everything he has said regarding this
in the past. Ross. What do you make of gene
Hart's acquittal, Well, it's hard to make anything of it
other than the jury simply didn't find evidence sufficient to convicting.
(17:26):
And but hearsay about it the trial was that some
evidence introduced appeared to be either made up or found
or wasn't wasn't appropriate, and that that had a big
influence on the jury. Let's go to James Powell on
(17:46):
that former senior agent with the Oklahoma Ure of investigation.
You can find him at the investigator LLC James. Thank
you for being with us. You know we keep hearing
about no evidence at trial, but there had to be
evidence to take the case to trial. Yes, ma'am, it was,
(18:08):
and of course May's kind of Sheriff's office. I don't
want to try to minimize all the effort they put
into trying to get this case resolved. They spent thousands
of hours on it. Most of the evidence that was
admitted that trial has already pretty much been well documented.
There wasn't a lot. Jeane was living about a mile
from the crime scene. He had previous convictions. I know
(18:32):
that the Sheriff's interested in him because he was a
sex offender and he'd escaped from the JAY. As far
as the actual evidence, there wasn't. I think you mentioned yesterday.
It was discussed yesterday. There was some blood evidence that
pointed to a Native American. There was some hairy evidence
which pointed to a Native Americans. As a forensics will
(18:53):
tell you receive as the stuff that we would have
to day. You got to remember this was back in
nine seventy seven. Yeah, you're right, an awful lot has
been learning since then. It sure has to. Joseph Scott Morgan,
Professor Forensics, jacksonvill State University and author of Blood Beneath
My Feet on Amazon. Joe Scott in nineteen eighty nine.
I don't know if everyone's familiar with this, but DNA
(19:16):
was conducted to show three of the five probes taken
from the scene of them murders, from the girls bodies
and from the scene matched hearts DNA. DNA from one
and seventy seven hundred Native Americans would have obtained the
same results. Joe Scott Morgan, What if anything does that mean? Well,
(19:41):
it means that you're putting them in the ballpark. But
it's that the testing that was done back then, it's
not finally two, was not as finally tuned as it
is today exactly. And if that evidence was still viable,
if they still had some remnant of it, if it
wasn't destructive destructive what's called destructive testing, if they still
had some sample, there might be something that they could
(20:03):
go back into. Well, there's another lead, Joe Scott. It
has to do with a school bus. Take a listen.
I was sitting on the bench and father the Wilson
Cunningham sung and as I sat there, I saw these
big buses go through as soon Karen, a little girl
(20:24):
scouts following the bus, but it was the daughter super
being a dark one. There may have been somebody in
the back that I could not identify, and I'm not
even sure, but the two in front I recognize because
I had had problems with them before. I had arrusted
(20:49):
that driver a number of times. And to Faith Phillips
joining us Cherokee screenwriter and author, who was in the car?
That would be Buddy Bristol and one of our other
named suspects that I had obtained from these three different sources.
And the reason why that car is so crucial is
because the confession that Buddy provided said that after they
(21:11):
committed the crime, they put the murder weapons and bloody
clothes in this Dodge super Bee and they pushed it
off into the Grand River, which is just a couple
of miles south of where the crime occurred. So we
still just have this oral confession and we don't really
have any corroborating information. Well, was the Dodge Bay found.
The Dodge b has never been found, But in the
(21:34):
course of the investigation, we found out that after nineteen
seventy seven. That Dodge super Bee has never been tagged
again in the state of Oklahoma or the United States,
and it is never seen again by locals after that night,
which seemingly would confirm that it was sunk down a
(21:55):
river in a body of water. Guys, take a listen
to more. Buddy Bridge was a white Locust Grove resident
with a long rap sheet. According to locals, she was
known for stocking young girls and torturing animals. After repeated
visits to the prison to interview Buddy, Sheriff Paul Smith
(22:16):
gets something extraordinary, a verbal confession. They had been drinking
beer and doing rugs for three straight days. He said
they were a little money and they were thinking of
some white they could raise. The Caysian decided the chapperal
(22:37):
homes for those girls out there would probably be loaded
a bit of money. Bristol said. They waited tools sometime
after midnight, and so they hit the ten. They all
just hit the door at the same time. One had
a crow bar, one had a roofing hammer. When you
(22:58):
analyze a statement for veracity or truthfulness, you look at
richness of detail. Is there a lot of detail to
their story? Detail? They maybe could not make up or fabricate.
There's more and there's something very telling and what Buddy
(23:19):
Bristol allegedly said, listen. According to Paul's story, Bristol told
him that two of them entered the tent from the back.
One hit Laurie Farmer and one hit Michelle guzz but
Denise Milner bolted out the front of the tent and
the third person caught her as she was trying to
make a run for it, and she got out the door.
(23:41):
They had to go grab her, but she's the one
that they tied that Corerunrnee. Bristol told Paul that while
the other men sexually attacked the girls, Buddy himself claimed
not to have taken part. He said Laurie and Michelle
died quickly, but Denise remained alive. Then they took all
(24:02):
three girls, placed them in the road, and strangled Denise
where she lay. According to the confession, the three men
intended to dispose of the bodies elsewhere, some wanting them,
made a noise or an alarm, dropped them on and all.
But it's scir them. They dropped those girls. They got
(24:29):
in the super bee and one of the suspects was
given the job of going to dump the vehicle, the
murder weapons, and the bloody clothes, and that super Bee
was supposedly pushed into a river a few miles from
Camp Scott. Guys, I'm reeling right now, and I'll tell
you why, because a lot of what Buddy Bristol allegedly
(24:51):
said jives lines up with the forensic evidence. Well it does.
It was the autopsy showed that Denise Milner was strangled
while the other two were killed with a bload of
the head. So that's consistent. The other thing that is
consistent with this, and I've always questioned it, how could
(25:14):
one individual do this crime without having somebody discovered it.
When two or three people are doing the crime, they've
got control of all three of the girls. But for
Heart to have gone in there and be able to
do that, it was really strange that he didn't have
(25:35):
an accomplish to James Powell, former senior agent with Oklahoma
year of investigation at the Investigator LLC, James, there's no
telling how many defendants you have suspects that you have interrogated.
And there's one thing I've noticed over and over and
over in cases where there is a rape and a
(25:55):
murder very often. I mean, it's amazingly how often a
purple say, well, yeah, I shot her, but I didn't
rape her, Like it's better to have shot the victim
than to have raped the victim. And I've seen it
so many times that when Buddy Bristol allegedly says, oh, yeah,
(26:20):
I was there, and I was there when the girls
were murdered, but I didn't rape them, I am telling you,
James Powell, that actually has a ring of truth in it.
Oh yes, ma'am. It does. And I've found that that's
pretty consistent too with some of the cases that I've
worked where for whatever reason, a male suspect doesn't want
to be called a rapist, but I guess and their
(26:43):
warked way of thinking being a killer or a murder
sort of increases what we used to say. They're a
lot or those I think you pointed out their street creds.
I'll find that that's what wouldn't necessarily mean he wasn't
there just because he says he didn't participate in the rate.
You know, Jessica Morgan with me forensics expert, what he's
saying if he said this, and I have no reason
(27:03):
to disbelieve the sheriff that said it, Paul Smith. His
story lines up with how the little girl's bodies that
were found, and we heard from a camp counselor that
said she woke up and heard this sound and she
couldn't really identify it as she went and found the
girls there like they had just been left there. That
(27:26):
goes along with this account, so Scott the forensics, Yeah,
it does. And you know, we go back to this.
You know, we mentioned this footprint that didn't match up
with hearts as well, and that's kind of compelling for me.
I think that one of the things that I would
like to know because I heard that, you know, there
was some talk that the girls, the remaining girls that
were the campers, had been removed from the camp in
(27:49):
order to take them away from this area. And this happens,
and did happen quite a bit infamously, it happened in
the Terry Bower's case up in Pennsylvania. But my issue
is this, I would like to know how thoroughly that
scene was searched at that moment. Did they literally break
down every structure that was out there, take every pair
(28:13):
of shoes that were out there, in any shoes from
anybody that was associated with this event period, and even
as it applies to the police office that were out
there that may have left tracks behind, to faint Phillips
joining us who lost his reinvestigation. What do you make
Buddy Bristol's confession? What I make of it is that
(28:33):
this is information that really needs to be run down.
And that was really my intention, particularly after I got
the letter, as I thought, We've got to get this
to law enforcement professionals. I'm a writer, I'm just a
geek that sits in the dark and writes books. This
needs to go to someone who can actually take action
and make something happen. Joining us is Ross a Swimmer,
(28:54):
a former principal chief of the Cherokee Nation. Ross, what
do you make the girl Scout murders and what if
any impact that had or has on the Cherokee Nation. Well,
obviously it had an impact because of where it occurred.
It was in the heart of the Cherokee Nation, and
(29:16):
the accused was Cherokee, and that was mentioned several times,
so it was you know, something that's not common. We
don't think within within our tribe. This isn't something that's uh,
that's very common and in fact, even with the Heart
(29:38):
having been convicted of sex crime, it had nothing to
do with children. And the story going around that we
were main uh know something about was that at one
point Heart literally walked out of the jail. They didn't
try to escape. It just uh wasn't that big a
deal because it had something to do with his girlfriend. Oh,
(30:02):
I thought he was convicted of raping two pregnant women.
I haven't heard that, so it could be. I don't know,
but it was not children. And and I think there
was some kind of relationship with the women that had
accused him. I don't know anything about that. What about that,
Faith Phillips, That is something that I can't I can't
(30:24):
effectively speak on. That is a rumor that I had heard.
But the fact is that he did plead guilty to
the crime. Yeah, so we know that much. Well, are
there other alleged suspects? Time stories with Nancy Grace, with
(30:55):
me Herb Weaver or this is Sheriff Weaver's son her
How did all this affect you? Well, it was a
horrible event to start with. I ended up having to
quit my job as a teacher coach because I was
getting death threads. But why you Why would you get
(31:16):
a death threat because sheriff for you, Weaver was my
dad and all the community, most of the community was
behind Jean Hart, and so they looked at me as
an enemy. And I want them back up just a
minute on that prior conviction on the rape charges. To
(31:37):
my knowledge, there was no commitment between Hart and those
two ladies he raped at the Burgess River. My dad
told me that he picked them up at a bar
in Tulsa and took him out on the Burgess River
on four twelve and raped them, tied them up in
the same fashion that these little girls were tied in
(31:59):
a very and that is correct. He did not know
those women as far as my investigation had determined. They
were tied up and left and they were able to
get loose an escape, So it's not as if they
were just released or they were able to go or
immediately to the Sheriff's office. I think he had intended
on him to die out there, not only that they
were pregnant, tied up, left out there to die. And
(32:21):
even if he had known them, which no evidence supports,
that gossip, that makes it all worse. I don't see
oh he knew them. That's no defense. In my mind.
That makes it even worse. You were raping and terrorizing someone,
you know, so that doesn't help anything. Yeah, I'm not
(32:44):
suggesting it was a defense. I'm questioning, does that crime
didn't have anything to do with children, regardless of where
women were pregnant or not. Yes, they were pregnant. Yes,
there were two of them. Yes, it is a sex offense.
And also the unique knot that was used to tie
these women up was the same knot used found in
(33:07):
the girl scout's tent. Now does that previous a killer? No,
it does not. It's piece of circumstantial evidence, but that's
not all the evidence. Take a listen to this. According
to the letter writer, one of Paul's suspects was a pedophile,
and it was witnessed a day or two before that,
(33:28):
talking and laughing that they had found a place that
they could station themselves near where the girls showered. In
addition to revealing that the suspects spied on the young
girls in the days prior to June twelfth, the letter
identified a fourth man with the group in the early
morning hours before the murders, who was also a known pedophile. Okay,
(33:51):
now that, in my mind is somewhat conflicting. Faith Phillips
in the first theory is that they were not interested
in sex little girls, that they were going to knock
the place off to try to find out if there
were valuables belonging to the counselors or anybody else they
could steal. Okay, now I'm hearing there were actually pedophiles
(34:11):
and been hanging around watching the girls go in and
out of the shower prior to June twelve. Wasn't June
twelve the first week of camp. It is very confusing,
and the facts are incredibly complicated, and I think that
helps to explain why this case has not officially been
closed for forty five years, because there's a lot of
conflicting evidence. Absolutely, faith, absolutely go ahead. When I heard
(34:36):
Paul Smith tell me, and Paul Smith is an Upstate
he was an incredible man, a military hero and a
servant of this nation, and so he absolutely deserved my respect.
But the one thing I really had a hard time
believing about the confession he told me came from Buddy.
Bristol was where he said we went there to rob
(34:56):
the camp counselors. Well, I don't believe that for a second. Yeah. Well,
and very often defendants try to cover up their desire
to rape children if they're pedophiles, and they'll come up
with something else. So I could see him saying, we
just went to rob and then whoop, so we raped
and murdered three little girls. Listen to more, I began
(35:16):
to see indications that married up with Paul's account that
multiple people had been involved in the murders. I read
about a vehicle that had been parked outside Camp Scott's
gate facing west with four people inside. That gate was
in such a remote area, why would anyone be parked
(35:38):
out there at night during a thunderstorm? I had read
where a camper reported that she saw several men late
that night gathered near the latrine, with at least one
of the men wearing military style boots otherwise known as
jungle boots. The camper heard them talking and hid in
(35:58):
her sleeping bag. Multiple people, including counselors and campers, reported
that they had been followed through the woods and that
they'd encountered strangers on the trails that should not have
been authorized to be there. Strangers on the trail that
were not authorized to be there and more. I walked
(36:20):
out to the truck and I set the files in
the backseat and I just lifted up the first file
on top, and it was one of the photos of
the little girls, and I just slammed it down. And
(36:41):
that's when I realized that there was much more in
this collection of files than I had any idea. When
I went through those files, I came across the most
difficult thing I've ever seen in my life. To you,
Faith Phillips explained to me what this picture a little
(37:04):
girl was and where you found it. Well, that's why
I think Herb Weaver is one of many heroes in
this story, because he had this box of files that
his father, Sheriff Weaver, had maintained all these years, and
he reached out to me through Jennifer Morrison and said
that he had some files. Well, Nancy, I just thought
(37:25):
that it was the actual trial transcripts, because for whatever reason,
in the state of Oklahoma, they aren't required to maintain
trial transcripts when the defendants acquitted, so I had not
been able to read the actual child transcripts. I thought
I was going to Herb's house to pick those up.
And I got there and when I opened them up,
what I found was the actual photographs of the little girls,
(37:50):
of their injuries, crime scene fatos of the little girls,
Herb Weaver joining us, Sheriff Weaver's son. Did you have
any idea everything that was in that box? No? I didn't.
My mother had always told me that it was the
transcript of the trial, and I thought that would be
good for Faith to have. I had never looked in
(38:12):
that box before, and the first recollection I had that
there were photos, handwritten notes from my dad came from
Faith after she opened it and looked at it and
in her fans, she told me to secure that box
(38:33):
and not let it get out into the public media.
One moment, one action, sending that box of old trial
notes and transcripts to Faith Phillips has changed the course
of this investigation. Are their other killers? And will there
(38:57):
ever be justice for three Girl Scouts? We follow the
very latest developments in the brand new Fox Nation series
The Girls Scout Murders here at Crime Stories all week tomorrow,
revealing family secrets come to light, plus a phone call
(39:18):
that changes everything. We wait as justice unfals. Nancy Grace
Crime Story signing off goodbye for
Host
Nancy Grace
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