September 26, 2025 • 41 mins
A new investigation surrounding Luigi Mangione. The retail giant Shein is trying to figure out who used a likeness of the accused murderer in an ad campaign on the company's website. It has now been removed but the image of Mangione was used to model a white, short-sleeved shirt.
A spokesperson from Shein says the likeness was provided by a third-party vendor.
Mangione has been indicted on first-degree murder in furtherance of terrorism. He is also charged with two counts of murder in the second degree, with one of those counts also denoting Mangione murder of CEO Brian Thompson as an act of terrorism. Now the Federal government is seeking the death penalty.
Attorney General Pam Bondi directed federal prosecutors to seek the death penalty which marks the first such directive by the Trump administration. New York, where the murder occurred, has abolished the death penalty, and Mangione's lawyers are attempting to block the federal death penalty pursuit, arguing the move is a political stunt.
Police questioned Mangione's mom the day before he was captured. She told officers that the shooting 'might be something that she could see him doing.'
JOINING NANCY GRACE TODAY:
- Matt Mangino - Attorney, Former District Attorney (Lawrence County), Author: "The Executioner's Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words and Executions of 46 Persons in the United States"
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker," featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock www.drbethanymarshall.com/ , Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive
- Tom Smith - Former NYPD Detective, former member FBI/NYPD Joint Terrorism Task Force. Co-Host of the GOLD SHIELDS Podcast, https://thegoldshieldshow.com, FB & Instagram: @thegoldshieldshow
- Sheryl McCollum - Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org, Host: Zone 7, Twitter: @ColdCaseTips
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic
- Christina Aguayo - National News Anchor, Salem News Channel, website: www.ChristinaAguayoNews.Com, Facebook: @ChristinaAguayoNews, Instagram: @Christina.AguayoNews
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, it's Friday night and
it is special.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
What does accused assassin Luigi Mangione have to do with
the world's largest fashion retailer Shine? Okay, wait for it,
wait for it. Remember Luigi Mangioni. He's behind bars for
gunning down a healthcare ceo, leaving behind a widow and
(00:31):
two boys because he was quote angry at the insurance system.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Yeah, he was born with.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
A silver spoon in his mouth, was educated within the
Ivy League prep schools all the way, has been baking
in the sun in Hawaii by the ocean, living in
a high rise, not working a lick, and then he
comes to Manhattan guns down a hard king ceo. Yeah,
(01:02):
that's Luigi Manngioni. But what does he have to do
with Shine? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I
want to thank you for being with us. In the
last days, the alleged assassin was pictured beaming white rephrase.
In the last days, the alleged assassin was pictured smiling
(01:25):
for the camera wearing a white floral patterned button up shirt.
In the image of the In the image on the
Chinese I can't say that, okay. In the last days,
the alleged assassin has been pictured smiling for the camera
(01:46):
wearing a white floral patterned button up shirt and it's
apparently a Shine article and it states underneath it Men's
news spring summer short sleeve blue ditzy floral white shirt
pastoral style gent something he's wearing that he's modeling that
(02:08):
for ten dollars and thirty nine cents. He's wearing a
Maha men's striped short sleeve shirt for eight seventy seven.
What Luigi Mangioni is now a cover model for Shine?
They say, know what they say, no way, and I
think I know why they don't want to be associated
(02:30):
with Luigi Mangioni.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Earlier this morning in Altoona, Pennsylvania, members of the Altuna
Police Department arrested Luigi Mangioni, a twenty six year old,
mail on firearms charges. At this time, he is believed
to be our person of interest.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
From what we understand, McDonald's employee and Altoona in western
Pennsylvania spotted the guy and thinks he looked like the
health Boss assassin, probably trying to use a fake ID
in a McDonald's.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
According to law enforcement and the New.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
York Post the man being eyed for the cold blooded
execution of Brian Thompson. The guy has a gun, a
silencer for fake IDs, and other items consistent with what
Ellie was looking for in the case.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
But is it him? Does he match this description?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
According to a McDonald's employee, he does?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
What else do we know? Where?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Is Altoona, Pennsylvania, Western Pennsylvania, two hundred and eighty miles
away from Manhattan, a little over a five hour drive.
But the manhunt across the nation going in every direction
from Manhattan. Divers, drones, you name it, all used employed
(03:58):
to find the killer of the health care boss.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
What led to the detainment of this guy?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
We also understand that in his possession is a New
Jersey ID at fake ID, possibly used to check into
that Manhattan hostel.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Police press conference listen.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
A man was taken it to custody today at Altuda,
Pennsylvania this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni.
He's a male, twenty six years old. He was born
and raised in Maryland. We know he has tys to
San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.
He has no prior arrest history in New York. Members
(04:42):
of the NYPD Detective Bureau are currently traveling to Pennsylvania
with members of the Manhattan District Attorney's Office to interview
this subject. This case was brought to a successful conclusion
based on the co ordinated effort between numerous NYPD units,
including the Intelligence and counter Terrorism Bureau, a federal partners
at the FBI, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and of course,
(05:04):
members of the Altoona Police Department in Pennsylvania. On Thursday,
one day after this crime was committed, the NYPD released
a photo of the shooter in this case. This picture
was obtained by the NYPD during one of their extensive
video canvases. We took that photograph and we asked for
the public's health in identifying this subject, and the public responded.
(05:24):
Hundreds of tips began to pour into our hotline. Each
tip was investigated thoroughly, and we began to release additional
photographs as they came into our possession. The NYPD provided
these photos to numerous media outlets, Local, national, and international
outlets released a photo via television, print, social media, and
online content. Luckily, a citizen in Pennsylvania recognized our subject
(05:49):
and called local law enforcement. Members of the Altoona Police
Department responded to the call and based on their investigation,
they notified the NYPD. This investigation is still and ongoing.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
I had a couple questions about the document that he
was found in possession with. Can you go a little
bit more in depth about those motivations that you mentioned,
was that CEO specifically named in that document? Was there
anything more about him wanting to go after others? And
also in that document, was there any indication that explains
(06:24):
us how the level of detail that he went into
killing him, like, is there anything else that.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
That document is currently in the possession of the Ottoon
of Police Department as part of their investigation, but just
from briefly speaking with them, we don't think that there's
any specific threats to other people mentioned in that document,
but it does seem that he has some ill will
towards Corporate America.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
Can you point to a single linchpin that help practice case.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
There's numerous lynchpins in this case. And the fact that
we've recovered an enormous amount of forensic evidence, an enormous
amount of video, and once again with your help and
the public SELP. I couldn't. I really couldn't put it
on one thing, but if I had to, it would
be the release of that photograph from the media. We
had divers in the warter yesterday that came up negative
results the passport. We don't believe that he was planning
(07:10):
on doing any traveling at this time. We don't think
he at this point our investigation, we don't think he
was trying to flee the country.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Person at McDonald's, were they buying? What were they doing
at that exact report?
Speaker 4 (07:19):
He was an employee at the McDonald's.
Speaker 6 (07:22):
But what was sucssfect do?
Speaker 4 (07:24):
He was sitting there reading Nadia from.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
The New York Post.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
I was just hoping to get more details of the
capture itself.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Did he put up a fight?
Speaker 6 (07:30):
Did he say anything the cops?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
And we've also recorded that he published online anti health
care industry rantings. Can you share with us some of
the services that he posted on.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
We're still working through his social media. We're going to
do a complete scrub of that. Preliminarily, like I said,
he seems that he has some ill will toward corporate America,
but that will all come out as part of our investigation.
We're not done here. We're still going to be putting
this together. We're still going to be working very hard
to bring this to a successful conclusion.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
A ghost gun, a silence, sir says, and a handwritten
manifesto attacking the healthcare industry sounds like our guy.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
But what else led to this entertainment in Pennsylvania?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Hey, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, our renown psychoalyst out
of La, author of deal Breaker. You can see her
on Peacock Now, Doctor Bethany. The theory that the assassin
meant to scatter toy monopoly money over the dead body.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That tells me a lot about him.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
He's got a lot of time sitting in somebody's basement,
thinking and plotting. It almost rules out a day job
in my mind. But that said, we know he's white male.
We know he's got money and a guy that can
fund himself cash wise for nearly two weeks in Manhattan.
(08:54):
We also know that while he may have meant to
scatter fake monopoly money all over the dead body, sending
a message as if the nine millimeter bullet didn't do that,
he didn't lay the money behind. But he did leave
behind a water bottle with DNA and fingerprints on it.
He left behind a candy or bar wrapper. He left
(09:16):
behind a burner phone. If they can break into that
burner flown burner found, that is going to be a
tremendous source of evidence.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
But he forgot to strow the money.
Speaker 7 (09:26):
Nancy, he forgot it. This guy is obsessional. In the
crime world, you may say methodical. I say obsessional, meaning
he has been thinking about this for a long long time.
When I have a patient like this come into my
Beverly Hills office, they usually are enraged at one person
and that is all they can talk about. What they
would like to do, what the person's look on their
(09:49):
face would be like, you know, Nancy, with obsessional paranoia,
the person the person sort of alleviates their rage by
constantly thinking about inflicting harm on the victim. But I
also think although he obsessed about this and planned it out,
this was his first crime, he did not He did
(10:11):
not think about what it would be like to drop
a candy wrapper, drop the water bottle. He didn't have
time to plan them. He didn't have time to scatter
the monopoly money.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
This was all in his head. You'd never practiced before.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Hey, you know what, Tom Smith, former NYPD knows this
area like the back of his hand.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Tom the burner, the cell phone.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I mean, there's an outside chance it's his actual cell phone.
But the reports we're hearing is it's a burner phone.
Lauren Colin, Yes, no burner phone, actual phone.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Burner phone, Nancy, Tom Smith. What I'm coming to you
about is the phone? What an idiot? I think Bethany's right.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
This may be his first time at the rodeo, and
you know, like, well, let me think of a good one.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Robert Blake, remember when he and his henchman.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Got bodyguards, got together and murdered bonding Lee Bakley, And.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
They had this extensive to do list.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Very often you can catch the purp because of their
to do list and they're over planning.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Right. But the burner phone, they're really hard to break into.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Do you remember in the Alexan Burrogg trial they had
to bring in the Secret Service to crack his phone.
Speaker 8 (11:22):
Yeah, and I agree with Lauren. It's a burner phone
and who knows what's on there? Yeah, he could just
use it for simple things. Again, if he plans it
out and knows Berner phones and what to use them for.
There may not be a lot on there, but the
ability to break in there might not be that difficult
because of the low technology that Bernard Phone and Giugi
(11:43):
are and the limited amount of information that'll be on there.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
All the surveillance video, all the pictures that we've got
so far, talking on the phone just before the murder. Hey,
Doctor Bethany Marshall, and then I'm gonna follow up with
renowned defense attorney Jason Oceans.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Dr beth He's not worried. Look at him. He has
practiced this over and over and over.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
He has been watching the victim like a hawk from
the moment the victim got into town. This guy knows
the itinerary by heart. He knew that there was a breakfast,
he knew that that started at eight o'clock. He knew
that the victim was going over ahead of time from
the Hilton over to the Executive Forum where he was
(12:29):
set to speak that morning. Now, all of this surveillance
video is from individuals and businesses along the trek.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Check it out.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
So what I'm getting at, Dr Bethany, this guy's cold,
cool and calculated.
Speaker 7 (12:46):
This is definitely cold blooded and methodical, to use the
panel's term, Nancy. There's one thing this guy forgot to do.
He didn't watch the Nancy Grace Show, because if he had,
he would have known that there were surveillance camera's all
along that street. And that fifteen minute phone call that makes.
Speaker 6 (13:04):
Me wonder if this is like the DC Sniper where
an older, more ruthless person recruited a younger person, or
that he's acting in concert with somebody else and that's
why he's on that phone.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Hey, Lauren, it was a call fifteen minutes before the shooting,
not a fifteen minute phone call.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Correct.
Speaker 9 (13:22):
Correct, The phone call occurred at six thirty am.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
So doctor Bethany. But I agree with what you were saying.
But he did not ye act.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
For fifteen minutes.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
It's almost as if he's checking in because I'm wondering
is he speaking or is he listening?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I can't tell. Plus his mouth is covered right there.
And I'll tell you why.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Jason Ocean is joining me renow defense attorney joining us
out of this jurisdiction. Who also, you and I have
walked this track before together at Jason Ocean.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So back around por TV and hl N days Jason.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
The reason I'm wondering if he was listening to something
and not talking, I prosecute an arson murder.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
And just before.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
The guy burned his mansion down and tried to fake
that his wife died in the fire from smoking eilation,
he called and checked the weather channel. Jason, I was
so happy he called and checked the weather channel to
find out if it was going to rain the day
he was setting the house on fire. So, for all
(14:28):
I know, this guy is checking the bus schedule or
checking was And now I know he was not on
a flight.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
I know he was on a bus.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
But every time I'm headed to Legardia, I call or
I check online to see if my delta flight is delayed. Okay,
how do I know if he was just checking something
or actually speaking to someone. In Bethany's train of thought,
what if he called someone it was a quick callment,
Hey I'm on the way right now, I'm walking, I
(14:55):
just passed Starbucks.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
It could be that it could be anything.
Speaker 10 (15:00):
I think the theory that, you know, the potential theory
that he was directed by someone and that's why he
was on the phone is fascinating and also struck by
that his lack of knowledge, you know, the overall aspect
of the cameras that are everywhere. I think he didn't
plan for that. That was the one thing in this
seemingly meticulous planning that was that was not done. But
(15:22):
that phone call could be very critical if we can
find out if it was an incoming or an outgoing call,
and the limited technology it has in the ability to
bust that phone up.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I got to figure out how the Secret Service actually
cracks it.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
You'd think it would be easy, because you know, Cheryl
McCollum with me forensic expert.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
When I was researching for my last book, Don't Be
a Victim, I found out that about I think it
was seventy percent or eighty percent, some crazy astronomical number
of people still use the factory code that they had
on answer machines.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
They do one two three four is their.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Code, or one one one one, or of course sixty
nine sixty nine that's tried and true, or let's see
lucky numbers that they come up with, like seven seven
seven seven. It's so predictable. But then you got somebody
like this who's uh, half smart, and he's probably got
(16:22):
some bizarre code on his cell phone.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
The burner.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
You know how long it took them to crack Alex
Murdock's final They had to bring in the Secret Service
to do it.
Speaker 11 (16:32):
Exactly means you look, that phone call could have been
something as simple as he called in seek to work
because he knew wouldn't, but make it who you can
call it? Six forty five am is a very small
group of people, So it could have been he's checking
the bus schedule because he's believing that morning and wants to.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Make sure that's smart's smart smart?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Wait, you just you just really gave me clue. Cheryl,
Who are you going to call at six o'clock in
the morning? Not very many people, Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 11 (17:03):
Because if you call your mom or a sister or
something like that, you're going to scare the day like
that of them. So it's got to be somebody that's obvious.
So you can leave a message for somebody because you
know they're not at work yet, you can check the
bus schedule. I'm not as interested in that as I
am his other messages. What he wrote on the shellcasing
the threat before the murder, the fact that he would
(17:25):
choose New York and not the victim home state, why
not shoot him at any red light going to work?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Oh, Cheryl, Cheryl, you just gave me another tidbit. Hold on,
I want to tell everybody. At first we were led
to believe that the bullets were engraved in some way with.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Deny defend deposed.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
We now know it was written with black sharp which
tells me even more. Do you know that you can
get a handwriting sample off of that?
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Not that I think police are.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Gonna need a handwriting sample when they've got fingerprints in DNA,
But you never know what might click with the jury.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
What about it?
Speaker 11 (18:09):
Chery off one hundred percent? But again, it tells you
he took extra time to leave a message on shellcasings.
He took extra time to get the monopoly money. That's
a message. Shooting him in New York City the morning
of that meeting was a message. He could have shot
him anytime in his home stated a red light, but
he didn't. This is somebody that was a laser focused
(18:32):
about his intended target and his motive.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Period Crime Stories with Nancy Grace In the last days,
the world's single largest fashion retailer, Shine, is trying to
get to the bottom of a mystery regarding Luigi Mangioni.
(18:59):
The seven year old has of course attracted a huge
fan base, mostly female supporters. I don't know what they're thinking,
but now has appeared seemingly modeling for Shine. They say,
no way, how did this happen? Apparently they don't want
to touch in with a ten foot pole, and this
(19:20):
is why.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
The suspect was in a McDonald's and was recognized by
an employee who then called local police. Responding officers questioned
the suspect, who was acting suspiciously and was carrying multiple
fraudulent IDs as well as a US passport.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
First, I want to go out to our dive expert.
I'm curious about the search in the lake at Central Park.
Speaker 12 (19:46):
The New York Police Department dive team is called into
action after the discovery of the backpack near Hexherre Playground.
The divers are seen trawling a Central Park pond behind
an area cordoned off with police tape. Next to but
there's the fountain in a body of water known as
the lake near Central Park boat House. The NYPD has
been searching Central Parks since the gun.
Speaker 11 (20:03):
Most is keeping.
Speaker 12 (20:06):
Every kind and the distinctive gun used in the shooting,
and it's unclear if officers recovered any evidence from the water.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Joining me special guest Ben Dobin, Virginia Beach Emergency Medical Services,
also the Dean of Professional Services at Virginia Wesleyan University.
He is an expert diver and he is actually a
dive instructor. Well.
Speaker 13 (20:30):
I do a lot of police diving also and just
into emergency diving. And so I'm looking at this on
Google Maps, and it's a relatively closed area, so that
makes it a lot easier than having to go into
the ocean or you know, a great lake, or the
chestbea bay, so it makes it a lot easier for
the divers. It's also I just looked it up, it's
only four to six feet deep, so that also makes
it a lot more simple to do a dive operation.
(20:50):
But what they're could be doing is they're could be
looking for anything that they can find. And one thing
that your listeners and watchers need to understand is anything
that exists above water exists underwater. People use it as
a garbage dump. We find you name it, bikes, washing machines,
shopping carts, so there's a lot of debris. The more
people that are around, the more people use it as
(21:11):
a dumping ground. But there's two things that I imagine they're
looking for just listening to the different news reports and
listening to you. They're looking for the firearm obviously, but
that telephone also they're looking for that. You know, those
are both very small items that are relatively easy to discard,
and one of the things that if you find an
item like that, you're going to have to recover it.
Evidence recovery is the same underwater as it is above
(21:34):
water from the police perspective, but the one thing we
have to keep in mind is that it's in a
different environment. Evidence above water is in air, so all
if you do is keep it in the air. But
evidence that's recovered underwater you have to recover it with
the water. If you take it out of the water,
things start to break down relatively quickly. When I'm talking
about specifically is fingerprints if you take something out of
(21:54):
the water, and fingerprints can last for about a week underwater,
so the clock is ticking you remove, whether it's a
firearm or the telephone or any piece of evidence, you're
going to want to take it out of the water
and just bring some of the local water with it
and then bring that to your forensics office, and then
they're going to drain the water and then do all
(22:14):
the magic that they do to get the fingerprints off
of it.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Okay, Ben Dobyn is joining me, not only dean Professional
Services at Virginia Westling and he is a.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Dive instructor and a police diver.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Now, Ben, you just taught me something I didn't know.
Number One, when items are taken out of the water,
you have to preserve them in preferably the ambiant water
the water in which they were in, because the moment
they hit the air, it starts to degrade.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
For instance, fingerprints.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of
Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a
hit series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, I wanted
to talk to you about the gun, but I want
to follow up on.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
What Dobrin is telling us.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yes, prints are preserved underwater because prints, fingerprints are based
on the oil in the body oil water.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Get it. You can explain better than me.
Speaker 14 (23:12):
Go ahead, Yeah, our fingerprints come about as a result
of the discharge of the fatty lipids that we have
in the pores that surround the print that's left behind. Remember,
we don't have fingerprints on the tips of our fingers.
We have friction ridges that leave behind fingerprints. So in
this particular case, we believe that this is a weapon
(23:35):
that has a magazine in it, Nancy. So if you
have a magazine, that means that you're going to be
pressing down on the rounds as you're loading the magazine in,
and also you're touching that surface of the magazine. The
magazine is this then fitted into essentially the grip of
this weapon, and it's kind of in a protected space there.
(23:58):
So what Ben is talking about is right on the money.
You have this protected space. If you can keep this
in uh in the water that it comes from and
take that into the lab, they can get around that
weapon pretty quickly and raise any kind of latent prints
that might be there.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
You did that so eloquently, Joe Scott, I would have
just said, you know, like oil and water don't mix.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
That's exactly what I'm saying here.
Speaker 14 (24:25):
That one more thing about it, Yeah, you think about
you know, Ben had mentioned how densely populated, and all
of us have been to Manhattan, how densely populated. This
area this guy and pay very close than you what
I'm about to say. This guy, if he did this,
(24:45):
he ain't the first person to think about dumping a
weapon into that lake, all right. So they have a
herculean task at hand here dealing around, dealing in this
filthy water where they're going to be using their hands,
crawling along. How many other weapons are in there? Just
because you find a firearm e merged doesn't mean it's
(25:08):
the firearm that was used.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Ben.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
I want to follow up with you on this is
a great thing to throw at Jason Ocean's when we
come back. But this guy did so much planning then,
But I bet he didn't measure the depth of this
lake and has no idea even though it's big, it's
twenty acres.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
I guarantee you he didn't know that it was just
four to six feet deep.
Speaker 13 (25:35):
And I just found that Google And if you go
a little bit further north, it looks like there's the
reservoir in the park and that's forty feet deep, So
that is significantly deeper. I mean, obviously you can dive that.
It just takes a little bit longer to get down
and get up. But four to six feet is super easy.
If they find something, they can just pop their head
out of the water and look at it. And what
he just said is we've done training dives in local
(25:55):
lakes where we have found multiple guns. What we weren't
looking for. I mean, we're just a training dive and
we found goods. I found a flint lock pistol. I
wasn't looking for one time, because you know, in a
populated era, people think, oh, if if I discard a
firearm in this lake, nobody will ever find it. Well,
you know it's hard to see, but if people are
looking for it, they're gonna find it.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
You know.
Speaker 13 (26:14):
The New York City Police dive team is one of
the most respected in the world. If it's in that
little area there, they're going to find something.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Crime Stores with Nancy Grace, the world's largest fashion retailer,
has lost an investigation after alleged killer assassin Luigi Mangioni's
likeness was saying modeling their shirts and one of apparently
their advertisements smiling at the camera and sporting not one
(26:51):
but two of their button up shirts. Okay, they issued
a statement quote The image in question was provided by
a third party vendor and was removed immediately upon discovery.
We have stringent standards for all listings on our platform. Okay,
bottom line, he made it into an advertisement for Shine.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Why who would have done that?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
One of his cult followers, and believe me, he's got
a lot of cult followers. Joining me right now is
expert Tom Smith, NYPD, detective thirty years and the star
of the gold Shields podcast. Tom again, thank you for
being with us. We've learned a lot about the gun.
(27:37):
At first, it looks like it's been manipulated with a
homemade silencer on it. We are now understanding that is
not a homemade silencer.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
That this is a weapon that is often used.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
By veterinarians to put down that's a nice word for it, animals.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
The magazine is in the grip. And when many people
thought that it.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Was jamming and he was clearing it after each shot,
which I thought he did really calmly and methodically, we
now know it may be a bolt action that has
to be manually cycled after each shot.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
That changes things. Tom Smith, Yes, it.
Speaker 8 (28:18):
Does, because now he knows he's proficient in that weapon,
knowing every time he fires it he's going to have
to chamber around and if I could show you real quick,
this is a glock, not the same weapon that was used,
but but similar functioning. Every time he fires that weapon,
he'd have to click it like this in order to
chamber around to fire the next round. And the thing
(28:39):
about him is he knows the weapon because he knows
that's coming. It's not a surprise to him. So he
fires around, has to clear it, fire another round, clear
it to chamber around each time. And he knows the weapon,
and he knows that he's coming and has to do that,
and that's why he stays kind of calm. Any other
criminal I've ever dealt with in New York City, what's
(29:02):
a weapons jams, they throw it away, they run. He
knows exactly how this weapon is being used.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Okay, for once, the movie's got it right, Tom Smith,
because in the movies you always see the person jam
the weapon and they just throw it or they throw
it at the person they're shooting at. Here when you
look at the video, he's walking toward the victim. I
guarantee you, Tom Smith, this guy practiced probably at a
(29:30):
gun range.
Speaker 8 (29:31):
Oh yeah, and you probably have practiced with that weapon,
because like I said, there's a big difference when you're
viewing this, whether someone's panicking or anticipating the movement he's doing.
He knows what he has to do to fire that weapon.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
You know, I want you to explain one more time
for novices out there about the bolt action. We now
don't believe the gun was jamming everybody. We believe it
was a bolt action that has to be manually recycled
after every shot. Could you explain that and demonstrate one
more time please, Tom.
Speaker 8 (30:03):
Yeah, this is a nine millimeter weapon and the magazine
port is in here just like you mentioned, it's at
the bottom of the handle. So once a round is fired,
he has to manually clear that round to chamber another
round in order to fire it. He'll fire it again
and do the same thing over and over again. So,
like I said, he's very aware of how that gun
(30:24):
he's used and what he used to do to fire.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
You know another issue, Tom Smith, and I'm going to bring.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Everybody back in in just a second, But Tom, another
feature of this particular gun that is traditionally used by
veterinarians to put down animals is it has a.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Very quiet shot, very quiet shot.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
And the gun we're talking about has a long as
we saw. Could you hold yours up again as a
very long barrel like that? This one even seemed a
little bit longer than yours. And that can be confused
because it looks like a silencer, but it's not.
Speaker 8 (31:09):
It's a long weapon and easier to aim because you
have more of an angle of your target in front
of you. So, like I said, he is very aware
of how this weapon is used and what it needs
to do to fight.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Is this gun is a specialized gun.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
This guy practiced and practiced, and he had everything planned out.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
You know, he practiced with the murder weapon.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
He didn't just trot over to Connecticut and buy a
gun and then use it the next day. That did
not happen. Think of the mindset here. This is a
gun he brought with him on a bus.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Didn't got on a.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Plane because he couldn't get through Tsa with a gun
for Pete's sake. And the airlines know who you are,
they have your picture, they have you every three feet
in the airport.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
He didn't want that. He wanted to travel with his gun.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
What criminal that's practiced and practiced and planned and plan
was to use an aligen gun.
Speaker 8 (32:05):
Well, it's hard to trace. That's why if you're using
a normal weapon with a serial number and so forth,
it's easily traced, whether you find it in a month
or a year. This we have no idea whether there's
any serial numbers on it, whether there's any distinguishing markings
on it. So it could be very benign in the
in identifying it, and that's why he paid.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
What I'm saying, Doctor Bethany Marshall, is that this guy
did not just go into a gun shop and buy
the gun just before the murder. If he planned this
methodically to get to Manhattan and to carry out this crime,
staking out the scene the moment he got there November
twenty four to ten pm, he didn't go to bed.
He went to this location where the forum was going
(32:50):
to be held. He didn't buy a new gun. I
don't think. I think he brought his preferred weapon with
him after practicing for hours on end.
Speaker 7 (33:02):
This guy is upper middle class. This guy has money,
He has disposable money, and he had access to a
weapon in a professional environment. This is not somebody who
goes to a gun shop with a fake ID and
tries to skip the background check and gets a gun.
This is a man who knows this weapon. This is
also a man who has researched where this CEO is
(33:25):
going to be.
Speaker 15 (33:26):
Early reports on the shooting of Brian Thompson pointed to
a silencer being used or a modern version of a
rare World War two gun. The investigators found themselves looking
into a Connecticut gun store they believe may have sold
the weapon. That lead did not pan out, but now
Chief Detective Joseph Kenny says they are looking into the
use of a veterinary gun being used as the murder weapon.
(33:49):
Kenny says the weapon is normally used on farms and
ranches when an animal needs to be put down. The
animal can be shot with this type of weapon that
doesn't cause a large noise.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
The twenty six year old taking into custody on gun
charges apparently had a ghost gun, a silencer, multiple fake IDs,
and a hand written manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
It's not just this moment.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
This moment is the culmination of thousands of law enforcement
man hours like this.
Speaker 16 (34:24):
Amid speculation that the shooter traveled to New York on
a bus that left from Atlanta, NYPD officers have traveled
south for part of their investigation. APD confirmed through a
statement that its officers are assisting the NYPD investigators, whom
arrived in Atlanta on Saturday. Sources say they are searching
through video from the bus station in town and to
(34:46):
others along the route to New York City. Officers are
working to find a name from tickets purchased for a
November twenty fourth Greyhound trip.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
You notice the investigative reporter said, looking for a name.
I guarantee you it's not going to be his name.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Let me just say that.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
The security and verification procedures at the bus station a
lot less stringent than it is at the airport. He
could have gone in with any fake ID and gotten
a bus ticket under a fake name, just like he
had a fake ID that he got out of Jersey,
just like he used a fake ID when he checked
into that youth hostel. And speaking of the youth hostel,
(35:24):
Lauren Colin joining then investigative reporter and start a primetime
crime on YouTube, Lauren, much was made of him flirting
with the receptionist.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
That's not what happened.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
We now know that to check into that hostile and
it's not just at a hostile that's where they're doing it.
Fancy hotels too. When they say, you know, we need
some ID look at them. The next time they ask you.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
That, they look back up at your face. Right.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
So, yeah, there was a little flirtation. You can see
him smiling right there. That's about ten thousand dollars worth
of orthodontia on that mouth.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Right there.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
That's another can of worms, Lauren. So I don't know
that the clerk was flirting with him. She very well
may have said, pulled down your mask.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
I got to make an ID. I mean, this is
not the rints, okay, right right, and you're correct, Nancy.
Speaker 9 (36:16):
I did visit the hostel, and everybody working there was friendly,
not overly friendly. Something I noticed was that there were
multiple cameras throughout the lobby of the hostele. There were
cameras outside of the hostel as well. So my understanding
is they most likely have multiple angles of this guy,
(36:37):
of this shooter. I also visited the businesses surrounding the hostel.
I went inside to a local bodega. I went inside
to a dunkin Donuts and they informed me that they
not do any sort of talking about what they know
to anyone, but the NYPD, but also that they turned
over footage as well. So I believe that NYPD is
(36:59):
going through all of the footage they have right now, which, look,
it's gonna take some time. This is not gonna happen overnight,
but I think there's gonna be a lot more and
stills being released of this guy and what he did
during his time in New York before the shooting.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Straight out to you, Cheryl McCollum, let's look at this guy.
Who is he? Based on everything we know right.
Speaker 11 (37:20):
Now, Nancy, I think one thing that's imperative that everybody's
not mentioning is when you talk to the clerk at
the hostel. If this were my case, the first thing
I would have asked her is does he have an accent?
And that's why I think again they are focused on Atlanta.
They know where the bus originated, they know what he
sounds like. If he's from here, they're gonna know it.
(37:42):
The other thing about that weapon, remember we have three words,
which means three possible shellcases. So that gun either jams
and we have an unspent or we have three scent
which means he missed one.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Possibly a ghost gun, a style, sir, fake IDs and
a handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Sounds like our guy.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
But what else led to this detainment in Pennsylvania To
doctor Bethany Marshall joining us for now, psychoanalyst Way and
doctor Bethany, what's your take on it?
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Who is he?
Speaker 7 (38:22):
Nancy? This guy is upper middle class, he's educated. He
knew to do this hit at the healthcare conference because
he's sending a message. If he did it at a
traffic stop or at the victim's home, it would not
send the message. The scribbling on the ammunition he caught
that from researching internal documents at insurance companies and citing
(38:47):
words that employees or claims processors use to deny claims.
I am going to guess that he had a family
member who has denied care and because of that denied care,
the family member died and he cannot get over it.
So this is Although he looks like a street thug
(39:07):
on you know, at first glance, he is not.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
He's got a square chin, perfect teeth, wax between the eyebrows,
eyes going slightly down at the outer edges. He can
change a lot, but there are some things he can't change,
like his fingerprints and DNA Joe Scott.
Speaker 14 (39:31):
Yep, you're absolutely right. Those are unique to him, Nancy.
And here's one other thing. I did a little digging
one of this weapon that they keep referring to. That's
the veterinarian euthanasia weapon. They believe might be a what's
referred to as a Station six brand weapon. My research
revealed that there are essentially, I think either four or
(39:53):
five locations in the metro area where these can be
specifically purchased. And I think that if they believe that
that's what this is and that he transported it, I
think you're on the money here. Relative to getting on
a bus with this thing. He may have picked it
up down there at some point in time. And it's
(40:13):
not a very efficient weapon for doing the task that
he was trying to do, so I don't know, maybe
he was trying to you know, he's not going to
draw attention to himself, like when you buy a suppressor
separately from a weapon, perhaps, and it's not very efficient
because you lose your site picture every time you have
(40:34):
to rotate that bolt on the back of that weapon,
which is what he's doing. He's spending it. I think
that many of the answers that we're looking for are
probably going to rest as well. And this is something
that we will hear a lot about, I believe, with
United Healthcare and their chief security officer, who was actually
hired back in August of twenty twenty three. I want
(40:56):
to know what she knows. I want to know what
her assets know within that business. Are there letters that
have been written, are their lawsuits that have been filed
relative to what doctor Bethany mentioned about healthcare claims that
may have been blown off, or maybe they didn't receive
what they wanted. But trust me, the security apparatus within
(41:17):
that company is going to be working on.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Shine advertisement or no shine advertisement.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
I don't care how it.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Happened, but it happened, And I wonder how his widow
and her two boys feel about this seeing his face
smiling in an advertisement. We wait as justice unfolds in
(41:44):
this case. Nancy Gray signing off goodbye,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, it's Friday night and
it is special.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
What does accused assassin Luigi Mangione have to do with
the world's largest fashion retailer Shine? Okay, wait for it,
wait for it. Remember Luigi Mangioni. He's behind bars for
gunning down a healthcare ceo, leaving behind a widow and
(00:31):
two boys because he was quote angry at the insurance system.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Yeah, he was born with.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
A silver spoon in his mouth, was educated within the
Ivy League prep schools all the way, has been baking
in the sun in Hawaii by the ocean, living in
a high rise, not working a lick, and then he
comes to Manhattan guns down a hard king ceo. Yeah,
(01:02):
that's Luigi Manngioni. But what does he have to do
with Shine? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I
want to thank you for being with us. In the
last days, the alleged assassin was pictured beaming white rephrase.
In the last days, the alleged assassin was pictured smiling
(01:25):
for the camera wearing a white floral patterned button up shirt.
In the image of the In the image on the
Chinese I can't say that, okay. In the last days,
the alleged assassin has been pictured smiling for the camera
(01:46):
wearing a white floral patterned button up shirt and it's
apparently a Shine article and it states underneath it Men's
news spring summer short sleeve blue ditzy floral white shirt
pastoral style gent something he's wearing that he's modeling that
(02:08):
for ten dollars and thirty nine cents. He's wearing a
Maha men's striped short sleeve shirt for eight seventy seven.
What Luigi Mangioni is now a cover model for Shine?
They say, know what they say, no way, and I
think I know why they don't want to be associated
(02:30):
with Luigi Mangioni.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Earlier this morning in Altoona, Pennsylvania, members of the Altuna
Police Department arrested Luigi Mangioni, a twenty six year old,
mail on firearms charges. At this time, he is believed
to be our person of interest.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
From what we understand, McDonald's employee and Altoona in western
Pennsylvania spotted the guy and thinks he looked like the
health Boss assassin, probably trying to use a fake ID
in a McDonald's.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
According to law enforcement and the New.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
York Post the man being eyed for the cold blooded
execution of Brian Thompson. The guy has a gun, a
silencer for fake IDs, and other items consistent with what
Ellie was looking for in the case.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
But is it him? Does he match this description?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
According to a McDonald's employee, he does?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
What else do we know? Where?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Is Altoona, Pennsylvania, Western Pennsylvania, two hundred and eighty miles
away from Manhattan, a little over a five hour drive.
But the manhunt across the nation going in every direction
from Manhattan. Divers, drones, you name it, all used employed
(03:58):
to find the killer of the health care boss.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
What led to the detainment of this guy?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
We also understand that in his possession is a New
Jersey ID at fake ID, possibly used to check into
that Manhattan hostel.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Police press conference listen.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
A man was taken it to custody today at Altuda,
Pennsylvania this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni.
He's a male, twenty six years old. He was born
and raised in Maryland. We know he has tys to
San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.
He has no prior arrest history in New York. Members
(04:42):
of the NYPD Detective Bureau are currently traveling to Pennsylvania
with members of the Manhattan District Attorney's Office to interview
this subject. This case was brought to a successful conclusion
based on the co ordinated effort between numerous NYPD units,
including the Intelligence and counter Terrorism Bureau, a federal partners
at the FBI, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and of course,
(05:04):
members of the Altoona Police Department in Pennsylvania. On Thursday,
one day after this crime was committed, the NYPD released
a photo of the shooter in this case. This picture
was obtained by the NYPD during one of their extensive
video canvases. We took that photograph and we asked for
the public's health in identifying this subject, and the public responded.
(05:24):
Hundreds of tips began to pour into our hotline. Each
tip was investigated thoroughly, and we began to release additional
photographs as they came into our possession. The NYPD provided
these photos to numerous media outlets, Local, national, and international
outlets released a photo via television, print, social media, and
online content. Luckily, a citizen in Pennsylvania recognized our subject
(05:49):
and called local law enforcement. Members of the Altoona Police
Department responded to the call and based on their investigation,
they notified the NYPD. This investigation is still and ongoing.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
I had a couple questions about the document that he
was found in possession with. Can you go a little
bit more in depth about those motivations that you mentioned,
was that CEO specifically named in that document? Was there
anything more about him wanting to go after others? And
also in that document, was there any indication that explains
(06:24):
us how the level of detail that he went into
killing him, like, is there anything else that.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
That document is currently in the possession of the Ottoon
of Police Department as part of their investigation, but just
from briefly speaking with them, we don't think that there's
any specific threats to other people mentioned in that document,
but it does seem that he has some ill will
towards Corporate America.
Speaker 5 (06:44):
Can you point to a single linchpin that help practice case.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
There's numerous lynchpins in this case. And the fact that
we've recovered an enormous amount of forensic evidence, an enormous
amount of video, and once again with your help and
the public SELP. I couldn't. I really couldn't put it
on one thing, but if I had to, it would
be the release of that photograph from the media. We
had divers in the warter yesterday that came up negative
results the passport. We don't believe that he was planning
(07:10):
on doing any traveling at this time. We don't think
he at this point our investigation, we don't think he
was trying to flee the country.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Person at McDonald's, were they buying? What were they doing
at that exact report?
Speaker 4 (07:19):
He was an employee at the McDonald's.
Speaker 6 (07:22):
But what was sucssfect do?
Speaker 4 (07:24):
He was sitting there reading Nadia from.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
The New York Post.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
I was just hoping to get more details of the
capture itself.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Did he put up a fight?
Speaker 6 (07:30):
Did he say anything the cops?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
And we've also recorded that he published online anti health
care industry rantings. Can you share with us some of
the services that he posted on.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
We're still working through his social media. We're going to
do a complete scrub of that. Preliminarily, like I said,
he seems that he has some ill will toward corporate America,
but that will all come out as part of our investigation.
We're not done here. We're still going to be putting
this together. We're still going to be working very hard
to bring this to a successful conclusion.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
A ghost gun, a silence, sir says, and a handwritten
manifesto attacking the healthcare industry sounds like our guy.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
But what else led to this entertainment in Pennsylvania?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Hey, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, our renown psychoalyst out
of La, author of deal Breaker. You can see her
on Peacock Now, Doctor Bethany. The theory that the assassin
meant to scatter toy monopoly money over the dead body.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That tells me a lot about him.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
He's got a lot of time sitting in somebody's basement,
thinking and plotting. It almost rules out a day job
in my mind. But that said, we know he's white male.
We know he's got money and a guy that can
fund himself cash wise for nearly two weeks in Manhattan.
(08:54):
We also know that while he may have meant to
scatter fake monopoly money all over the dead body, sending
a message as if the nine millimeter bullet didn't do that,
he didn't lay the money behind. But he did leave
behind a water bottle with DNA and fingerprints on it.
He left behind a candy or bar wrapper. He left
(09:16):
behind a burner phone. If they can break into that
burner flown burner found, that is going to be a
tremendous source of evidence.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
But he forgot to strow the money.
Speaker 7 (09:26):
Nancy, he forgot it. This guy is obsessional. In the
crime world, you may say methodical. I say obsessional, meaning
he has been thinking about this for a long long time.
When I have a patient like this come into my
Beverly Hills office, they usually are enraged at one person
and that is all they can talk about. What they
would like to do, what the person's look on their
(09:49):
face would be like, you know, Nancy, with obsessional paranoia,
the person the person sort of alleviates their rage by
constantly thinking about inflicting harm on the victim. But I
also think although he obsessed about this and planned it out,
this was his first crime, he did not He did
(10:11):
not think about what it would be like to drop
a candy wrapper, drop the water bottle. He didn't have
time to plan them. He didn't have time to scatter
the monopoly money.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
This was all in his head. You'd never practiced before.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Hey, you know what, Tom Smith, former NYPD knows this
area like the back of his hand.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Tom the burner, the cell phone.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I mean, there's an outside chance it's his actual cell phone.
But the reports we're hearing is it's a burner phone.
Lauren Colin, Yes, no burner phone, actual phone.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Burner phone, Nancy, Tom Smith. What I'm coming to you
about is the phone? What an idiot? I think Bethany's right.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
This may be his first time at the rodeo, and
you know, like, well, let me think of a good one.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Robert Blake, remember when he and his henchman.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Got bodyguards, got together and murdered bonding Lee Bakley, And.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
They had this extensive to do list.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Very often you can catch the purp because of their
to do list and they're over planning.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Right. But the burner phone, they're really hard to break into.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Do you remember in the Alexan Burrogg trial they had
to bring in the Secret Service to crack his phone.
Speaker 8 (11:22):
Yeah, and I agree with Lauren. It's a burner phone
and who knows what's on there? Yeah, he could just
use it for simple things. Again, if he plans it
out and knows Berner phones and what to use them for.
There may not be a lot on there, but the
ability to break in there might not be that difficult
because of the low technology that Bernard Phone and Giugi
(11:43):
are and the limited amount of information that'll be on there.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
All the surveillance video, all the pictures that we've got
so far, talking on the phone just before the murder. Hey,
Doctor Bethany Marshall, and then I'm gonna follow up with
renowned defense attorney Jason Oceans.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Dr beth He's not worried. Look at him. He has
practiced this over and over and over.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
He has been watching the victim like a hawk from
the moment the victim got into town. This guy knows
the itinerary by heart. He knew that there was a breakfast,
he knew that that started at eight o'clock. He knew
that the victim was going over ahead of time from
the Hilton over to the Executive Forum where he was
(12:29):
set to speak that morning. Now, all of this surveillance
video is from individuals and businesses along the trek.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Check it out.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
So what I'm getting at, Dr Bethany, this guy's cold,
cool and calculated.
Speaker 7 (12:46):
This is definitely cold blooded and methodical, to use the
panel's term, Nancy. There's one thing this guy forgot to do.
He didn't watch the Nancy Grace Show, because if he had,
he would have known that there were surveillance camera's all
along that street. And that fifteen minute phone call that makes.
Speaker 6 (13:04):
Me wonder if this is like the DC Sniper where
an older, more ruthless person recruited a younger person, or
that he's acting in concert with somebody else and that's
why he's on that phone.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Hey, Lauren, it was a call fifteen minutes before the shooting,
not a fifteen minute phone call.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Correct.
Speaker 9 (13:22):
Correct, The phone call occurred at six thirty am.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
So doctor Bethany. But I agree with what you were saying.
But he did not ye act.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
For fifteen minutes.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
It's almost as if he's checking in because I'm wondering
is he speaking or is he listening?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I can't tell. Plus his mouth is covered right there.
And I'll tell you why.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Jason Ocean is joining me renow defense attorney joining us
out of this jurisdiction. Who also, you and I have
walked this track before together at Jason Ocean.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So back around por TV and hl N days Jason.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
The reason I'm wondering if he was listening to something
and not talking, I prosecute an arson murder.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
And just before.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
The guy burned his mansion down and tried to fake
that his wife died in the fire from smoking eilation,
he called and checked the weather channel. Jason, I was
so happy he called and checked the weather channel to
find out if it was going to rain the day
he was setting the house on fire. So, for all
(14:28):
I know, this guy is checking the bus schedule or
checking was And now I know he was not on
a flight.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
I know he was on a bus.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
But every time I'm headed to Legardia, I call or
I check online to see if my delta flight is delayed. Okay,
how do I know if he was just checking something
or actually speaking to someone. In Bethany's train of thought,
what if he called someone it was a quick callment,
Hey I'm on the way right now, I'm walking, I
(14:55):
just passed Starbucks.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
It could be that it could be anything.
Speaker 10 (15:00):
I think the theory that, you know, the potential theory
that he was directed by someone and that's why he
was on the phone is fascinating and also struck by
that his lack of knowledge, you know, the overall aspect
of the cameras that are everywhere. I think he didn't
plan for that. That was the one thing in this
seemingly meticulous planning that was that was not done. But
(15:22):
that phone call could be very critical if we can
find out if it was an incoming or an outgoing call,
and the limited technology it has in the ability to
bust that phone up.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I got to figure out how the Secret Service actually
cracks it.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
You'd think it would be easy, because you know, Cheryl
McCollum with me forensic expert.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
When I was researching for my last book, Don't Be
a Victim, I found out that about I think it
was seventy percent or eighty percent, some crazy astronomical number
of people still use the factory code that they had
on answer machines.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
They do one two three four is their.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Code, or one one one one, or of course sixty
nine sixty nine that's tried and true, or let's see
lucky numbers that they come up with, like seven seven
seven seven. It's so predictable. But then you got somebody
like this who's uh, half smart, and he's probably got
(16:22):
some bizarre code on his cell phone.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
The burner.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
You know how long it took them to crack Alex
Murdock's final They had to bring in the Secret Service
to do it.
Speaker 11 (16:32):
Exactly means you look, that phone call could have been
something as simple as he called in seek to work
because he knew wouldn't, but make it who you can
call it? Six forty five am is a very small
group of people, So it could have been he's checking
the bus schedule because he's believing that morning and wants to.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Make sure that's smart's smart smart?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Wait, you just you just really gave me clue. Cheryl,
Who are you going to call at six o'clock in
the morning? Not very many people, Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 11 (17:03):
Because if you call your mom or a sister or
something like that, you're going to scare the day like
that of them. So it's got to be somebody that's obvious.
So you can leave a message for somebody because you
know they're not at work yet, you can check the
bus schedule. I'm not as interested in that as I
am his other messages. What he wrote on the shellcasing
the threat before the murder, the fact that he would
(17:25):
choose New York and not the victim home state, why
not shoot him at any red light going to work?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Oh, Cheryl, Cheryl, you just gave me another tidbit. Hold on,
I want to tell everybody. At first we were led
to believe that the bullets were engraved in some way with.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Deny defend deposed.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
We now know it was written with black sharp which
tells me even more. Do you know that you can
get a handwriting sample off of that?
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Not that I think police are.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Gonna need a handwriting sample when they've got fingerprints in DNA,
But you never know what might click with the jury.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
What about it?
Speaker 11 (18:09):
Chery off one hundred percent? But again, it tells you
he took extra time to leave a message on shellcasings.
He took extra time to get the monopoly money. That's
a message. Shooting him in New York City the morning
of that meeting was a message. He could have shot
him anytime in his home stated a red light, but
he didn't. This is somebody that was a laser focused
(18:32):
about his intended target and his motive.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Period Crime Stories with Nancy Grace In the last days,
the world's single largest fashion retailer, Shine, is trying to
get to the bottom of a mystery regarding Luigi Mangioni.
(18:59):
The seven year old has of course attracted a huge
fan base, mostly female supporters. I don't know what they're thinking,
but now has appeared seemingly modeling for Shine. They say,
no way, how did this happen? Apparently they don't want
to touch in with a ten foot pole, and this
(19:20):
is why.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
The suspect was in a McDonald's and was recognized by
an employee who then called local police. Responding officers questioned
the suspect, who was acting suspiciously and was carrying multiple
fraudulent IDs as well as a US passport.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
First, I want to go out to our dive expert.
I'm curious about the search in the lake at Central Park.
Speaker 12 (19:46):
The New York Police Department dive team is called into
action after the discovery of the backpack near Hexherre Playground.
The divers are seen trawling a Central Park pond behind
an area cordoned off with police tape. Next to but
there's the fountain in a body of water known as
the lake near Central Park boat House. The NYPD has
been searching Central Parks since the gun.
Speaker 11 (20:03):
Most is keeping.
Speaker 12 (20:06):
Every kind and the distinctive gun used in the shooting,
and it's unclear if officers recovered any evidence from the water.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Joining me special guest Ben Dobin, Virginia Beach Emergency Medical Services,
also the Dean of Professional Services at Virginia Wesleyan University.
He is an expert diver and he is actually a
dive instructor. Well.
Speaker 13 (20:30):
I do a lot of police diving also and just
into emergency diving. And so I'm looking at this on
Google Maps, and it's a relatively closed area, so that
makes it a lot easier than having to go into
the ocean or you know, a great lake, or the
chestbea bay, so it makes it a lot easier for
the divers. It's also I just looked it up, it's
only four to six feet deep, so that also makes
it a lot more simple to do a dive operation.
(20:50):
But what they're could be doing is they're could be
looking for anything that they can find. And one thing
that your listeners and watchers need to understand is anything
that exists above water exists underwater. People use it as
a garbage dump. We find you name it, bikes, washing machines,
shopping carts, so there's a lot of debris. The more
people that are around, the more people use it as
(21:11):
a dumping ground. But there's two things that I imagine they're
looking for just listening to the different news reports and
listening to you. They're looking for the firearm obviously, but
that telephone also they're looking for that. You know, those
are both very small items that are relatively easy to discard,
and one of the things that if you find an
item like that, you're going to have to recover it.
Evidence recovery is the same underwater as it is above
(21:34):
water from the police perspective, but the one thing we
have to keep in mind is that it's in a
different environment. Evidence above water is in air, so all
if you do is keep it in the air. But
evidence that's recovered underwater you have to recover it with
the water. If you take it out of the water,
things start to break down relatively quickly. When I'm talking
about specifically is fingerprints if you take something out of
(21:54):
the water, and fingerprints can last for about a week underwater,
so the clock is ticking you remove, whether it's a
firearm or the telephone or any piece of evidence, you're
going to want to take it out of the water
and just bring some of the local water with it
and then bring that to your forensics office, and then
they're going to drain the water and then do all
(22:14):
the magic that they do to get the fingerprints off
of it.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Okay, Ben Dobyn is joining me, not only dean Professional
Services at Virginia Westling and he is a.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Dive instructor and a police diver.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Now, Ben, you just taught me something I didn't know.
Number One, when items are taken out of the water,
you have to preserve them in preferably the ambiant water
the water in which they were in, because the moment
they hit the air, it starts to degrade.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
For instance, fingerprints.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of
Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a
hit series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, I wanted
to talk to you about the gun, but I want
to follow up on.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
What Dobrin is telling us.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yes, prints are preserved underwater because prints, fingerprints are based
on the oil in the body oil water.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Get it. You can explain better than me.
Speaker 14 (23:12):
Go ahead, Yeah, our fingerprints come about as a result
of the discharge of the fatty lipids that we have
in the pores that surround the print that's left behind. Remember,
we don't have fingerprints on the tips of our fingers.
We have friction ridges that leave behind fingerprints. So in
this particular case, we believe that this is a weapon
(23:35):
that has a magazine in it, Nancy. So if you
have a magazine, that means that you're going to be
pressing down on the rounds as you're loading the magazine in,
and also you're touching that surface of the magazine. The
magazine is this then fitted into essentially the grip of
this weapon, and it's kind of in a protected space there.
(23:58):
So what Ben is talking about is right on the money.
You have this protected space. If you can keep this
in uh in the water that it comes from and
take that into the lab, they can get around that
weapon pretty quickly and raise any kind of latent prints
that might be there.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
You did that so eloquently, Joe Scott, I would have
just said, you know, like oil and water don't mix.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
That's exactly what I'm saying here.
Speaker 14 (24:25):
That one more thing about it, Yeah, you think about
you know, Ben had mentioned how densely populated, and all
of us have been to Manhattan, how densely populated. This
area this guy and pay very close than you what
I'm about to say. This guy, if he did this,
(24:45):
he ain't the first person to think about dumping a
weapon into that lake, all right. So they have a
herculean task at hand here dealing around, dealing in this
filthy water where they're going to be using their hands,
crawling along. How many other weapons are in there? Just
because you find a firearm e merged doesn't mean it's
(25:08):
the firearm that was used.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Ben.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
I want to follow up with you on this is
a great thing to throw at Jason Ocean's when we
come back. But this guy did so much planning then,
But I bet he didn't measure the depth of this
lake and has no idea even though it's big, it's
twenty acres.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
I guarantee you he didn't know that it was just
four to six feet deep.
Speaker 13 (25:35):
And I just found that Google And if you go
a little bit further north, it looks like there's the
reservoir in the park and that's forty feet deep, So
that is significantly deeper. I mean, obviously you can dive that.
It just takes a little bit longer to get down
and get up. But four to six feet is super easy.
If they find something, they can just pop their head
out of the water and look at it. And what
he just said is we've done training dives in local
(25:55):
lakes where we have found multiple guns. What we weren't
looking for. I mean, we're just a training dive and
we found goods. I found a flint lock pistol. I
wasn't looking for one time, because you know, in a
populated era, people think, oh, if if I discard a
firearm in this lake, nobody will ever find it. Well,
you know it's hard to see, but if people are
looking for it, they're gonna find it.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
You know.
Speaker 13 (26:14):
The New York City Police dive team is one of
the most respected in the world. If it's in that
little area there, they're going to find something.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Crime Stores with Nancy Grace, the world's largest fashion retailer,
has lost an investigation after alleged killer assassin Luigi Mangioni's
likeness was saying modeling their shirts and one of apparently
their advertisements smiling at the camera and sporting not one
(26:51):
but two of their button up shirts. Okay, they issued
a statement quote The image in question was provided by
a third party vendor and was removed immediately upon discovery.
We have stringent standards for all listings on our platform. Okay,
bottom line, he made it into an advertisement for Shine.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Why who would have done that?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
One of his cult followers, and believe me, he's got
a lot of cult followers. Joining me right now is
expert Tom Smith, NYPD, detective thirty years and the star
of the gold Shields podcast. Tom again, thank you for
being with us. We've learned a lot about the gun.
(27:37):
At first, it looks like it's been manipulated with a
homemade silencer on it. We are now understanding that is
not a homemade silencer.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
That this is a weapon that is often used.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
By veterinarians to put down that's a nice word for it, animals.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
The magazine is in the grip. And when many people
thought that it.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Was jamming and he was clearing it after each shot,
which I thought he did really calmly and methodically, we
now know it may be a bolt action that has
to be manually cycled after each shot.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
That changes things. Tom Smith, Yes, it.
Speaker 8 (28:18):
Does, because now he knows he's proficient in that weapon,
knowing every time he fires it he's going to have
to chamber around and if I could show you real quick,
this is a glock, not the same weapon that was used,
but but similar functioning. Every time he fires that weapon,
he'd have to click it like this in order to
chamber around to fire the next round. And the thing
(28:39):
about him is he knows the weapon because he knows
that's coming. It's not a surprise to him. So he
fires around, has to clear it, fire another round, clear
it to chamber around each time. And he knows the weapon,
and he knows that he's coming and has to do that,
and that's why he stays kind of calm. Any other
criminal I've ever dealt with in New York City, what's
(29:02):
a weapons jams, they throw it away, they run. He
knows exactly how this weapon is being used.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Okay, for once, the movie's got it right, Tom Smith,
because in the movies you always see the person jam
the weapon and they just throw it or they throw
it at the person they're shooting at. Here when you
look at the video, he's walking toward the victim. I
guarantee you, Tom Smith, this guy practiced probably at a
(29:30):
gun range.
Speaker 8 (29:31):
Oh yeah, and you probably have practiced with that weapon,
because like I said, there's a big difference when you're
viewing this, whether someone's panicking or anticipating the movement he's doing.
He knows what he has to do to fire that weapon.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
You know, I want you to explain one more time
for novices out there about the bolt action. We now
don't believe the gun was jamming everybody. We believe it
was a bolt action that has to be manually recycled
after every shot. Could you explain that and demonstrate one
more time please, Tom.
Speaker 8 (30:03):
Yeah, this is a nine millimeter weapon and the magazine
port is in here just like you mentioned, it's at
the bottom of the handle. So once a round is fired,
he has to manually clear that round to chamber another
round in order to fire it. He'll fire it again
and do the same thing over and over again. So,
like I said, he's very aware of how that gun
(30:24):
he's used and what he used to do to fire.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
You know another issue, Tom Smith, and I'm going to bring.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Everybody back in in just a second, But Tom, another
feature of this particular gun that is traditionally used by
veterinarians to put down animals is it has a.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Very quiet shot, very quiet shot.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
And the gun we're talking about has a long as
we saw. Could you hold yours up again as a
very long barrel like that? This one even seemed a
little bit longer than yours. And that can be confused
because it looks like a silencer, but it's not.
Speaker 8 (31:09):
It's a long weapon and easier to aim because you
have more of an angle of your target in front
of you. So, like I said, he is very aware
of how this weapon is used and what it needs
to do to fight.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Is this gun is a specialized gun.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
This guy practiced and practiced, and he had everything planned out.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
You know, he practiced with the murder weapon.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
He didn't just trot over to Connecticut and buy a
gun and then use it the next day. That did
not happen. Think of the mindset here. This is a
gun he brought with him on a bus.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Didn't got on a.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Plane because he couldn't get through Tsa with a gun
for Pete's sake. And the airlines know who you are,
they have your picture, they have you every three feet
in the airport.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
He didn't want that. He wanted to travel with his gun.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
What criminal that's practiced and practiced and planned and plan
was to use an aligen gun.
Speaker 8 (32:05):
Well, it's hard to trace. That's why if you're using
a normal weapon with a serial number and so forth,
it's easily traced, whether you find it in a month
or a year. This we have no idea whether there's
any serial numbers on it, whether there's any distinguishing markings
on it. So it could be very benign in the
in identifying it, and that's why he paid.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
What I'm saying, Doctor Bethany Marshall, is that this guy
did not just go into a gun shop and buy
the gun just before the murder. If he planned this
methodically to get to Manhattan and to carry out this crime,
staking out the scene the moment he got there November
twenty four to ten pm, he didn't go to bed.
He went to this location where the forum was going
(32:50):
to be held. He didn't buy a new gun. I
don't think. I think he brought his preferred weapon with
him after practicing for hours on end.
Speaker 7 (33:02):
This guy is upper middle class. This guy has money,
He has disposable money, and he had access to a
weapon in a professional environment. This is not somebody who
goes to a gun shop with a fake ID and
tries to skip the background check and gets a gun.
This is a man who knows this weapon. This is
also a man who has researched where this CEO is
(33:25):
going to be.
Speaker 15 (33:26):
Early reports on the shooting of Brian Thompson pointed to
a silencer being used or a modern version of a
rare World War two gun. The investigators found themselves looking
into a Connecticut gun store they believe may have sold
the weapon. That lead did not pan out, but now
Chief Detective Joseph Kenny says they are looking into the
use of a veterinary gun being used as the murder weapon.
(33:49):
Kenny says the weapon is normally used on farms and
ranches when an animal needs to be put down. The
animal can be shot with this type of weapon that
doesn't cause a large noise.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
The twenty six year old taking into custody on gun
charges apparently had a ghost gun, a silencer, multiple fake IDs,
and a hand written manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
It's not just this moment.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
This moment is the culmination of thousands of law enforcement
man hours like this.
Speaker 16 (34:24):
Amid speculation that the shooter traveled to New York on
a bus that left from Atlanta, NYPD officers have traveled
south for part of their investigation. APD confirmed through a
statement that its officers are assisting the NYPD investigators, whom
arrived in Atlanta on Saturday. Sources say they are searching
through video from the bus station in town and to
(34:46):
others along the route to New York City. Officers are
working to find a name from tickets purchased for a
November twenty fourth Greyhound trip.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
You notice the investigative reporter said, looking for a name.
I guarantee you it's not going to be his name.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Let me just say that.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
The security and verification procedures at the bus station a
lot less stringent than it is at the airport. He
could have gone in with any fake ID and gotten
a bus ticket under a fake name, just like he
had a fake ID that he got out of Jersey,
just like he used a fake ID when he checked
into that youth hostel. And speaking of the youth hostel,
(35:24):
Lauren Colin joining then investigative reporter and start a primetime
crime on YouTube, Lauren, much was made of him flirting
with the receptionist.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
That's not what happened.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
We now know that to check into that hostile and
it's not just at a hostile that's where they're doing it.
Fancy hotels too. When they say, you know, we need
some ID look at them. The next time they ask you.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
That, they look back up at your face. Right.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
So, yeah, there was a little flirtation. You can see
him smiling right there. That's about ten thousand dollars worth
of orthodontia on that mouth.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Right there.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
That's another can of worms, Lauren. So I don't know
that the clerk was flirting with him. She very well
may have said, pulled down your mask.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
I got to make an ID. I mean, this is
not the rints, okay, right right, and you're correct, Nancy.
Speaker 9 (36:16):
I did visit the hostel, and everybody working there was friendly,
not overly friendly. Something I noticed was that there were
multiple cameras throughout the lobby of the hostele. There were
cameras outside of the hostel as well. So my understanding
is they most likely have multiple angles of this guy,
(36:37):
of this shooter. I also visited the businesses surrounding the hostel.
I went inside to a local bodega. I went inside
to a dunkin Donuts and they informed me that they
not do any sort of talking about what they know
to anyone, but the NYPD, but also that they turned
over footage as well. So I believe that NYPD is
(36:59):
going through all of the footage they have right now, which, look,
it's gonna take some time. This is not gonna happen overnight,
but I think there's gonna be a lot more and
stills being released of this guy and what he did
during his time in New York before the shooting.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Straight out to you, Cheryl McCollum, let's look at this guy.
Who is he? Based on everything we know right.
Speaker 11 (37:20):
Now, Nancy, I think one thing that's imperative that everybody's
not mentioning is when you talk to the clerk at
the hostel. If this were my case, the first thing
I would have asked her is does he have an accent?
And that's why I think again they are focused on Atlanta.
They know where the bus originated, they know what he
sounds like. If he's from here, they're gonna know it.
(37:42):
The other thing about that weapon, remember we have three words,
which means three possible shellcases. So that gun either jams
and we have an unspent or we have three scent
which means he missed one.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Possibly a ghost gun, a style, sir, fake IDs and
a handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Sounds like our guy.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
But what else led to this detainment in Pennsylvania To
doctor Bethany Marshall joining us for now, psychoanalyst Way and
doctor Bethany, what's your take on it?
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Who is he?
Speaker 7 (38:22):
Nancy? This guy is upper middle class, he's educated. He
knew to do this hit at the healthcare conference because
he's sending a message. If he did it at a
traffic stop or at the victim's home, it would not
send the message. The scribbling on the ammunition he caught
that from researching internal documents at insurance companies and citing
(38:47):
words that employees or claims processors use to deny claims.
I am going to guess that he had a family
member who has denied care and because of that denied care,
the family member died and he cannot get over it.
So this is Although he looks like a street thug
(39:07):
on you know, at first glance, he is not.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
He's got a square chin, perfect teeth, wax between the eyebrows,
eyes going slightly down at the outer edges. He can
change a lot, but there are some things he can't change,
like his fingerprints and DNA Joe Scott.
Speaker 14 (39:31):
Yep, you're absolutely right. Those are unique to him, Nancy.
And here's one other thing. I did a little digging
one of this weapon that they keep referring to. That's
the veterinarian euthanasia weapon. They believe might be a what's
referred to as a Station six brand weapon. My research
revealed that there are essentially, I think either four or
(39:53):
five locations in the metro area where these can be
specifically purchased. And I think that if they believe that
that's what this is and that he transported it, I
think you're on the money here. Relative to getting on
a bus with this thing. He may have picked it
up down there at some point in time. And it's
(40:13):
not a very efficient weapon for doing the task that
he was trying to do, so I don't know, maybe
he was trying to you know, he's not going to
draw attention to himself, like when you buy a suppressor
separately from a weapon, perhaps, and it's not very efficient
because you lose your site picture every time you have
(40:34):
to rotate that bolt on the back of that weapon,
which is what he's doing. He's spending it. I think
that many of the answers that we're looking for are
probably going to rest as well. And this is something
that we will hear a lot about, I believe, with
United Healthcare and their chief security officer, who was actually
hired back in August of twenty twenty three. I want
(40:56):
to know what she knows. I want to know what
her assets know within that business. Are there letters that
have been written, are their lawsuits that have been filed
relative to what doctor Bethany mentioned about healthcare claims that
may have been blown off, or maybe they didn't receive
what they wanted. But trust me, the security apparatus within
(41:17):
that company is going to be working on.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Shine advertisement or no shine advertisement.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
I don't care how it.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Happened, but it happened, And I wonder how his widow
and her two boys feel about this seeing his face
smiling in an advertisement. We wait as justice unfolds in
(41:44):
this case. Nancy Gray signing off goodbye,
Host
Nancy Grace
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