December 17, 2025 • 53 mins
Michele and Rob Reiner leave Conan’s party without their son after his off-putting behavior, like wearing a hoodie to a formal event and interrupting Bill Hader’s private conversation, leads to an embarrassing public row.
Reiner, however, doesn’t make his own way to Brentwood. Instead, he pops up in Santa Monica at 4 a.m. Sunday morning, checking into The Pierside hotel. Desk staff don’t notice anything off about Reiner’s appearance, but the next morning, housekeepers find sheets covering the windows, and blood all over Reiner’s bedding and shower.
The Reiners’ troubles with their middle child have been bubbling to a head for months. Every photo of the family from the September premiere of Rob’s latest film, "Spinal Tap: The End Continues," picture the 32-year-old sporting a deep scowl.
By November, Nick Reiner moves back into his parents’ guest house, which he’s trashed on multiple occasions, leading up to a blowout fight the day after Thanksgiving that left Michele “at her wits’ end.”
Ahead of Reiner’s first appearance, renowned defense attorney Alan Jackson enters the LA County courthouse, telling reporters he’s representing Nick Reiner.
Jackson says his client is still undergoing a medical evaluation at the infamous Twin Towers Correctional Facility, where Reiner is rumored to be held on suicide watch.
Joining Nancy Grace:
- Philip Dubé - Court-Appointed Counsel, Los Angeles County Public Defenders: Criminal & Constitutional Law; Forensics & Mental Health Advocacy; X: PhilipCDube, IG: PhilipDube, YouTube: PhilipDube3922
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker," and featured in hit show "Paris in Love" on Peacock; Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLivee
- Scott Eicher - A founding member of the FBI’s Cellular Analysis Survey Team (C.A.S.T); Historical Cellular Analysis Expert; Former FBI agent of 22 years; Former Police Officer and Homicide Detective with Norfolk Virginia Police Dept. having served 12 years; Currently with Precision Cellular Analysis handling Criminal, Defense and Civil Cases
- Rob Shuter - Host: Naughty But Nice Podcast, Author of Newly-released Novel “It Started With A Whisper;" Former Publicist of Sean Combs; IG: @naughtygossip
- Dr. Kendall Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), Host of Podcast, "Mayhem in the Morgue," and Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University)
- Kayla Brantley - Reporter-At-Large for DailyMail.com and Host of DailyMail’s Podcast: 'The Trial of Diddy;' X: @_KaylaBrantley, Instagram: @KaylaBrantley
- Sydney Sumner - Investigative Reporter, ‘Crime Stories’
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Shock arrest after a local hotel finds a trail of
blood leading all the way to the shower. After the
brutal murder of Hollywood legend Rob Reiner and his wife
Michelle found stabbed in their beds, multiple stab wounds, slices,
(00:26):
including slices to the arterial veins across the neck. This
as in the last hours, a high profile lawyer strides
in insisting his client is innocent. I'm Nancy Grace. This
is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being
with us.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Rob Reiner and his wife were murdered.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Their daughter came across the street that she was right
across the road, and.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Then she finds their bodies. They had multiple stab wounds.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
I got totally spun out on uppers. I think it
was coke and something else, and I was up for
days on end, and I started punching out different things
in my guest.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Outs, like a frame, like what like a stuff.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
I think I.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Started with the TV, and then I went over to
the lamp, and then progressively I just everything in the
guest house got wrecked.
Speaker 6 (01:23):
Our office will be filing charges against Nick Reiner, who
was accused of killing his parents, actor director Rob Reiner
and photographer producer Michelle Singer Reiner. These charges will be
two counts of first degree murder with a special circumstance
of multiple murders. He also fast is a special allegation
(01:46):
that he personally used a dangerous and deadly weapon, that
being a knife.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
You are hearing the local district attorney, and earlier you
were hearing Rob Reiner, Michelle Reiner's son Nick Reiner, describing
how he totally got spun out on uppers. I think
I was on coke and something else. I was up
for days on end and started punching out different things
in my guest house. Let me just do a quick
(02:13):
little correction right there, Kilo Brantley joining us, a reporter
at large dailymail dot com. It wasn't his guest house.
He was living on the largesse of his parents, Rob
and Michelle Reiner, and this wasn't the first time he
totally destroyed the guest house. I mean, the entitlement of
(02:35):
this guy. Is it true? From what very different from
what we first learned that Rob and Michelle Singer Reiner
were found their throats slit in their own bed. Is
that true? Kila Brantley.
Speaker 7 (02:51):
That's exactly right, Nancy.
Speaker 8 (02:53):
It was around Sunday at three point thirty pm when
their bodies were discovered. And what we're now learning is
Rob and Michelle Reiner had been dead in their bed
for some hours. So of course now the police are
putting together a timeline of when this could have happened.
We know Saturday night there was a fight with Nick
and his parents at a party at Conin O'Brien's house
(03:16):
at Christmas party, and by Sunday at three thirty pm
they were found dead.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Guys, in the last hours, video has emerged of the
sun Nick Reiner. Now this is after he allegedly murders
both his parents in their sleep. Which are going to
circle back to Phillip Dubay about I mean, talk about
stalking and predating upon someone attacking your parents in the dark,
in their sleep when they can't fight back. After that,
(03:45):
and after he checks into a local hotel and cleans up,
he's spotted here, let's take a look at Nick Reiner.
This is the latest happening. Now there he is, Wow,
he pet clean clothes, he has on a mat outfit.
Check it out. He's got on shoes, without blood, new
pants without blood. He's got a backpack, a jacket against
(04:09):
the cold, a hat. Let's keep watching this because I
see him walk in, fully aware of what's happening, going
straight to the drink area. He gets a drink, then
he goes and stands in line. Yeah, looks totally sane,
doesn't he. This is from CBS News. By the way,
(04:30):
Philip Dubay joining us a high profile lawyer out of
La County, former public defender. There's gonna really be hard
for his new high profile lawyer, Alan Jackson, who represented
Karen Reid to argue mental defect because he looks completely
sane right there. He knew to pack. Could you take
(04:52):
him down please? He need to pack new clothes, fresh clothes.
What happened to the murder weapon? Has it been hidden?
Did he know enough to hide or discard the murder
weapons so it will never be found? What knife was that?
What utensel did he use to stab his parents and
slit their throats? He knows how to go into a
(05:14):
gas station. He goes straight to what he wants. He
gets it, closes the fridge behind him, comes up to
the line and stands there patiently waiting to pay, pays
for his food, his drink. Wow, he looks just like
you deby going into a gas station. You don't look
crazy to me.
Speaker 9 (05:33):
If you killed during the throes of psychosis, or if
you kill while under the influence of some type of
NEF induced situation, like a form of methands psychosis, it
cannot form the basis of a lethod fats. The jury
can factor it in and deciding whether or not he
had the intent to kill, but you're not going to
(05:53):
walk away from it. And I think what the evidence
will probably show is that at some point he was
going through some type of the drug induced euphoria, likely
from methamphetamine, and that it dissipated and he went to
what we call that meth or cocaine crash. And that's
why you're seeing him so calm afterwards.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Uh huh, uh huh. Did you interview Nick Reiner and
learn all this or you just guessing, You're just projecting
he was on meth he was on coke. Now he's
in an uphoric downer, and he was a psychosist at
the time he murdered his parents. You're just kind of extrapolating,
is that right?
Speaker 9 (06:35):
I am telling you. He is a statistic He is
the mirror image of that homeless drug addicted population out
there that goes through that meth or cocai. It dissipates
and then they crash and during that crash stage they
are cool.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
You're saying the same thing again? Or am I caught
in a demonic echo chamber? Are you making this all up?
Did anybody tell you this? Are you co cal with
a high profile lawyer and you know this by some
interview with a diffendant? Or are you just spinning it out?
Speaker 9 (07:07):
That's the yes, I am enriching you as to what
the likelihood is.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
That's really what's being okay.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
So where did you get your information? If you could
reveal that.
Speaker 9 (07:19):
I'll tell you what tipped me off that that's what
happened when he was arrested. They booked him into the
Twin Towers Correctional Facility rather than the Men's County jail.
So what that and that is the largest psych hospital
in the United States within a jail system. It tells
me that at the point of the step.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
To stop, you must cut his mic because for Pete's sake,
Paris Hilton was booked in the Twin towers. That means
nothing to me. The fact that he's in the twins town.
You are spinning out like ru rubble still skin. You're
taking mangy looking with hay and you're turning it into gold.
But guess what that doesn't work with a venoin try lawyer.
(08:00):
That would be me the live stop right here. You
know nothing about his mental state. You know nothing about
whether he was on speed, whether it's on meth, whether
he's on coke, much less a euphick downer after bottom line.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
You know what?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Why am I asking a JD like myself mental health
questions when I've got doctor Bethany Marshall with me, renowned
psycho analyst joining us of this jurisdiction along with Dubay,
author of deal Breakers. You can see her on Peacock
now and find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.
Doctor Bethany Philip Dubay is talking about statistics, and all
(08:39):
trial lawyers know, if they've ever tried a case and
they're not just a talking head, that statistics are overwhelmingly
disallowed as evidence at court. So that's not happening now.
It doesn't matter if Rainer as in the son Nick
Reiner had been on meth. It doesn't matter if he's
(09:02):
on coke. It doesn't matter what he's on. Voluntary use
of drugs or alcohol not a defense, Bethany, I would
like you to look at your screen. We're gonna look
at this gas station video again. A lot of you
may be wondering why is this important? Because Alan Jackson
has swooped in the Karen Reid lawyer. This is from
(09:22):
CBS News, by the way, and I already see, as
Dubay said rightfully, that they're gonna try a metal defense argument. Okay,
but look at this guy. This is a couple of
hours after he allegedly slits the throats of both of
his parents. You know why, because he just couldn't take
(09:43):
living in that multimillionaire home, that lifestyle he was given
on a silver platter on top of a Christmas tree.
Speaker 10 (09:53):
You know, Nancy, I see somebody walking casually around in
Mini March getting a drink. He show signs of drug
abuse here. He's not pacing, he's not agitated. He looks
quite calm to me. So instead of putting this in
the drug addiction category where somebody's on mess and there's overkill,
which I speculated to yesterday. What I'm going to say
(10:15):
now is that often with domestic homicide, when somebody successfully
kills a family member, there's an extraordinary relief phase afterwards.
So they will be quite calm. They will like go shopping,
They will I mean a Casey Anthony dance on the
stripper pole.
Speaker 11 (10:34):
They will go out.
Speaker 10 (10:35):
And enjoy their lives. Now, in terms of drug abuse,
I've been looking at all the interviews last night, Nancy,
and one of the things I noticed about this guy,
Rob Reiner's son is he does a lot of what
we call tongue thrusting, pushing his tongue out as he's talking,
which means that he has tart of dyskenesia, which is
a signed of antipsychotic medication. Meaning this guy was in
(11:01):
the lap of luxury of psychiatric care. He had the
best psychiatrist, the best hospitalizations, everything available to him. I
see this as much more psychological than something that is
related to drug addiction.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
I want to go to Rob Shooter joining us, a
star of Naughty but Nice podcast, author of a brand
new book, It Started with a Whisper, which is a
big hit on Amazon. Now. You can find him at
Robsheeter dot substact dot com publicist to the stars, you know,
Rob Sheheeter. I'm going to put you under the microscope
(11:39):
right now and do a lightning round. Isn't it true?
You know Nick Reiner? Isn't that true?
Speaker 3 (11:46):
I've met Nick Rider?
Speaker 12 (11:47):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
So then simple answer, yes, And you have actually sat
down and had a meal with him? Yes?
Speaker 3 (11:55):
No, uh, coffee with him and I maybe across ont.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
That's not a yes, no, but whatever. When you were
with him, did he seem psychotic or just a spoiled brad.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
A spoiled brat.
Speaker 13 (12:12):
He felt entitled, explained he turned up late from meeting
that he arranged.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
I didn't arrange it.
Speaker 13 (12:19):
So he wanted to meet with me in La and
he turned up late, kind of late, late enough that
you notice, not five ten minutes late late.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
That bothered me.
Speaker 13 (12:27):
When he turned up, he was rude to the staff,
which is always a tell when you turn up and
you're rude to people. I remember at one point they
got his order wrong and he blew off the handle
really shockingly shockingly quick, and then came back down and
sat and talked. He was arrogant, he was entitled, and
he's sort of had a sense of himself that was
(12:49):
way bigger than the reality.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
He believed that he was a.
Speaker 13 (12:54):
Major player in Hollywood, the same way that he believed
he trashed his guest.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
How, No, you are not a major player in Hollywood.
Speaker 13 (13:03):
Your parents are, your dad is, and that ain't your
guest has it's your dad's Rob.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
But why did he want to meet with you? What
did he want?
Speaker 13 (13:12):
He was struggling. He wanted to be a really successful screenwriter.
He wanted to be famous. I think he desperately wanted
to step out of his mom and dad and his
grandpa's shadow. He was a lost guy, and he had
access to resources that the rest of us people struggling
in the entertainment business would absolutely, absolutely desire. He had
(13:35):
phone numbers, he had emails, he had contacts. But unfortunately
here he didn't have a lot of talent, and so
he had trouble squaring that. And he was looking. He
was looking for somebody to come along and turn him
into the next amazing screenwriter, which obviously I couldn't do,
and nobody else could do any he could do, and
he didn't have the gifts to do that.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Rob. Sure, you stated that he contacted you to meet
with him because he wanted to become a successful screenwriter.
What is your experience, Shooter as a screenwriter?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
My experience is zero. I have never written a screenplay.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Okay, So what you're good at, what your forte is
is you are a PR guru. People from all around
the world come to you for PR help, public relations help,
whether they're in a crisis or they just want to
become famous for whatever reason. You've seen it all from
Britney to Sean Combs, so many more. So he didn't
(14:33):
come to you for help to become a screenwriter. He
came to you because he wanted to be famous.
Speaker 13 (14:40):
Yeah, there was no craft there. He didn't come to
me to learn the art of becoming successful. He had
no interest in learning his craft. He had no interest
in taking a screenwriting class, in learning how to do this.
He wanted to go straight from zero to one hundred.
And this is not that uncommoney, It very rarely happens.
But everybody he wants to be famous. Everybody wants to
(15:01):
be successful. Are you willing to put in the work,
the hours, the hours, the years, the years.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
I tell everybody that works.
Speaker 13 (15:08):
With me for a little bit of success, it's going
to take five to ten years of hard work.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
He wasn't willing to do that. He wanted to go
straight from a zero to one hundred.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Well, how did he want you to make him famous?
What were you supposed to do?
Speaker 13 (15:22):
He had no idea how I'd do it. He thought
I'd done it for other people. I explained to him,
very very carefully, that I had worked with a lot
of lot of celebrities, but I hadn't turned anybody into
a star who didn't do the work, and that everybody
I worked with, from a Jennifer Lopez.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
To a Jean bon Jovi, works their pailoff.
Speaker 13 (15:42):
There's there's this thing, this this perception out there that
you can become famous overnight without doing the work, and
it's just not true.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
You have to do the work. He shows almost zero
interest in that.
Speaker 13 (15:53):
I asked him if he if he had a screenplay,
show me your play, let me let me read it,
let me see.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
He hadn't even put together a send on He said
me nothing.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Okay, does that change your opinion? Dr Bethany Marshall, what
you are learning from Rob's shooter? Now we're getting to
the very latest. We know where he's being held right now.
We know what his lawyer is up to. We have
seen the very latest of videos and evidence. We have
evidence from the hotel where he snuck into and literally
(16:24):
blacked out the windows with sheets hiding out, where he
cleaned up, leaving behind blood in the shower, his parents'
blood before I get to that. This is a real
insight for me. Dtor Bethany Marshall. I usually don't get
to have this when I'm looking at a target. This
(16:45):
changes a lot for me, this insight into Nick Reiner's mind. Bethany, Yes, it.
Speaker 10 (16:52):
Changes a lot for me too. I was fascinated by
what Rob was saying because what I'm hearing is true entitlement.
Entitlement is the expectation of reward without achievement. You want
to be at the top of Mount Everest, but you
don't want to work out high, get all the equipment,
try to get yourself to the top. You just want
to be magically helicopter there. And so people who have
(17:16):
severe addictions, like obviously Nick did, they have to work
really hard to surmount those addictions, right.
Speaker 11 (17:23):
They have to go to rehab.
Speaker 10 (17:25):
They have to surround themselves with a community that will
hold them responsible. But if you're drug addicted and entitled,
you are not going to put in the work to
gain sobriety. Now, if you're living in a guest house
with very rich, very talented, renowned parents, what you're going
to see is a sack of gold on the other
(17:47):
side of the driveway, and it's yours. It doesn't belong
to them anymore. Now it's yours. You should have it yourself,
even though maybe you haven't done anything to earn it, right,
Maybe you haven't gone to Conan Brian's Christmas party and
chatted people up and been kind and you know, taking pictures,
shake hands or anything like that. You just think that
(18:09):
it belongs to you. And so what I hear is
somebody who thinks he should be famous. He doesn't have
the talent, he doesn't want to put in the work.
He is building up this boiling resentment towards his parents
who did put in the work, and his grandfather who
did put in the work. And envy, that green eyed
(18:30):
monster envy. When you want something somebody else has and
you don't feel you can get it for yourself, it
causes the wish to destroy the object of your envy.
And I think That's what we're seeing right now, is
that he just he destroyed his parents, even though they
gave him every benefit, every opportunity. He thought he could
just skate in and you know, have lunch with our
(18:54):
not ey but nice you know person here, and that
all of a sudden he would be famous. It's the
offending pattern. I see it everywhere now as we're talking
about it tonight, as we go.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
To air tonight, we are learning the district attorney there
in LA has filed formal charges including illegal eagles if
you caught this special circumstances, which means the death penalty
is on the table.
Speaker 6 (19:20):
These charges carry a maximum sentence of life in prison
without the possibility parole or the death penalty. No decision
at this point has been made with respect to the
death penalty. We have requested and currently Nick Reiner is
being held without bail. One of these special allegations is
(19:41):
that the murder was committed with a deadly weapon or
a knife. As to where and how the weapon will
be was located or will be located, that will actually
be evidence while presenting.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Court the murtyrs of Rob Reiner and wife Michelle Singer
Reiner stabbed Dad multiple stab ones.
Speaker 14 (20:03):
The injuries to the neck categorized as slash wings.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Both their throats slit arterial breed is like a water SPRINKLRK.
Speaker 14 (20:11):
I can guarantee you, but this is a blood track.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
And in the last hours, Nick Reiner, suspect number one
in the murders of Rob Reiner and wife Michelle Singer.
Reiner appears in court looking grim, wearing shackles and a
suicide smock as he makes his very first court appearance
in the murder cases Sydney Summer. What happened?
Speaker 12 (20:38):
What happened Nancy? Essentially nothing? Alan Jackson tells the judge
he's already spoken with the prosecution and they agree to
postpone Reiner's arrangement until the new year, so they'll be
back in court on January seventh. The judge asks Reiner
if he agrees to waive his right to a speedy arrangement,
and Reiner meekly responds, yes, your honor. The only thing
(20:59):
we really learned here is that Reiner is likely being
held on suicide watch, evidenced by that barely visible blue smock.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
So Sidney Sumner, they spoiled bratt, turn accused double killer,
said very little in court. He appeared behind glass, he
was shackled. He did not enter a plea.
Speaker 12 (21:20):
Why Mister Jackson answered that for his client, telling the
judge it's too early to enter a plea as he
had just a few minutes with his client before this
initial appearance. It seems the court is already on holiday mode,
as both prosecutors and the judge quickly agreed to postpone
until January seventh.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Nick Rhyner's arrayment originally scheduled for this week, but once
high profile lawyer Alan Jackson enters the scene, Jackson waives
the right to speedy arrangnment and it has been delayed.
Remember a defense attorney's best friend, Delay, delay, delay, and
so it has started.
Speaker 12 (22:10):
Well, I don't think we can be too hard on Jackson, yet,
I'm not sure this delay can be categorized as unnecessary.
We saw Jackson go into the courthouse less than forty
five minutes before this arraignment, giving him just a few
minutes to meet with Reiner and the prosecutors. I can't
blame him for pushing back a plea to get a
chance to actually sit down with Reiner and get a
(22:32):
better understanding of his story.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
They arrest Rob Reiner and Michelle Singer, Reiner's son, goes
down in a public location, and eyewitnesses state that Nick Reiner,
the defendant in this case, seemingly was acting like a
quote ordinary guy.
Speaker 15 (22:49):
He was arrested in in a public area in the
Exposition Park area near the University of Southern California campus.
He was approached by the officers and he was arrested
without incident. There were no indications that there was no
indication that he was going to resist or anything like that.
He didn't flee or anything like that. He was taking
into custoy without issue, and he was transported to our
(23:13):
police are quorts.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Calo Brantley joining US investigative reporter dailymail dot com, Kela,
what happened? Tell me about how the arrest went down.
Speaker 8 (23:21):
Yeah, as you can see from those pictures and as
was described by the officer, Nick Reiner appeared very calm collected.
He didn't put up a fight, and you can see
in these pictures right here, you know, he put his
arms behind his back. He was not a risk, He
was not resisting arrest, and it appears that he was
in those same clothes that he was seen in that
earlier surveillance footage that you showed, So he didn't have
(23:43):
a change of clothes, and he was taken.
Speaker 7 (23:45):
Away very easily.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Tell me about what was found at the hotel.
Speaker 7 (23:50):
It was a horrific scene.
Speaker 8 (23:52):
Now, what we've learned is that there was blood everywhere.
He's obviously changed his clothes. There was no blood on
him as you saw there. And what they haven't found yet,
or what they haven't disclosed that they've found yet, is
a murder weapon. So obviously everyone's assuming that there was
a knife that was used for those lacerations to his parents' throat,
but we haven't learned yet if that has been found
(24:14):
or if it was found in the hotel or at
the crime scene.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
You're right, Calebrantley, dailymail dot com. Take a listen to
the LA district's attorney.
Speaker 6 (24:22):
One of these special allegations is that the murder was
committed with a deadly weapon or a knife. As to
where and how the weapon will be was located or
will be located, that will actually be evidence. While presenting court,
you see.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
The local district attorney seemingly correcting himself, pausing there about
the weapon well, it will be located. It was located,
That tells me that the weapon has been discarded. Much
like in the Brian Coburger case. We found the knife
hilt with the dependance DNA on it underneath one of
(25:03):
the murder victims, but we never found the actual knife.
Interesting joining me Scott Iiker, digital forensics expert, founding member
of the FBI Cellular Analysis serve A Team FBI twenty
two years and former homicide detective in Norfolk. Scott, thank
(25:26):
you for being with us. I want to find that weapon,
and after much analysis, I think the best way to
find the weapon is to track Nick Reiner's sell phone.
Speaker 16 (25:39):
How do we do it, Well, there are several different
ways to do that. You've got all the different applications
on the cell phone and the cellular connections that the
cell phone makes all the time when it's on, so
you can track the towers. You can get more detailed
information from distance from the towers, and you might be
(25:59):
able to get some information from the applications like Google,
of Facebook, Instagram. All those provide some locational information so
you can track him historically from the house to the
hotel and maybe or to where he was arrested, which
was about, you know, twelve thirteen miles away, so there's
(26:20):
a good amount of distance between those locations. So they
got their work cut out to try to figure it out.
But obviously they've got this video. They've gotten to a
point they're putting a timeline together and they're just going
to chronologically go through each little step to see where
they could figure out where he might have.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Put that night, that gas station video from our friends
at CBS. So I'm going to go out on a
limb here and go back to Phillip d Bay. He
is actually a veteran trial lawyer. He's a defense attorney,
and he has been with the La County Public Defender's Office.
What does that mean? They're on trial all the time,
just like assistant district attorneys. There are thousands of cases
(27:01):
to be handled, and you've got to go to trial
or else you get fired. Very simply put, Philip Dubay,
this guy may have been in the movie Maylleu. He's
been around screenwriters, he's been around stars, he's been around
plenty of who Done It movies. But do you really
think that he thought too. He's only alleged to communities crimes.
(27:25):
But would he have thought so deeply to think, Oh,
let me turn my phone off before I get rid
of the murder weapon, let me put it on airplane mode.
I don't think so. Remember one of our last suspects
that put the phone on airplane mode?
Speaker 12 (27:41):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yes, that would be very more few whose phone went
on airplane mode around the time his wife was killed
or went missing. So, Philip Dbay, do you really think
he thought that deeply when he got rid of the weapon.
Speaker 9 (28:01):
No, and I'll tell you why. I can tell by
the charges. The prosecution is not a legend that this
was a planned, premeditated murder. The only reason why he's
rising to the level of it being a special circumstance
is because there were multiple victims. They're not even a
legend that he did it for financial gain, which certainly
is the classic motive, particularly in the Hollywood. So what
(28:24):
you really have here is somebody who is out of
his mind, again likely due to psychosis, drugs, or maybe
even an untreated personality disorder, who flew off the handle
in a fit of rage for whatever reason, and fled
while still in that Either drug induce psychosis or some
type of mental health crisis. Does it excuse the behavior?
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Okay, you know what, City Sumner, that was all my
fault because you never on the stand anyway, ask a
witness a question that you don't already know the answer to.
So I ask him, do they about the weapon and
where it would have been discarded? And was the cell
phone turned on or off at the time the weapon
was discarded? And he goes back to his pretend drug
(29:09):
psychosis theory. Sidney Sumner, let's get some facts. Joining me
Sidney Sumner along with Kila Brandley, Daily Mail Sidney Sumner,
Crime Stories investigative reporter. What exactly are the charges against
Nick Reiner? We just heard the district attorney speaking. What
are the charges?
Speaker 11 (29:28):
Well, Nick Reiner is charged with two counts of murder
with the special circumstances of multiple murders because he killed
two people at the same time and that special circumstance
of using a deadly weapon.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Sidney, Aren't those murder charges first degree murder? Isn't that true?
Speaker 11 (29:50):
You're right, Nancy, they are first degree murder.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
And in this jurisdiction of California, murder one is murder
with malice of forethought. That's what murder one is in California, Sidney.
Speaker 11 (30:06):
Exactly, So there is some assumption that this was premeditated
in some degree.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
So when we hear Philip Dubay state that this is
not uh, these are not charges that include intent, that's
diametrically opposed to what the charges actually are. The charge
is murder one. Again out on a limb, Debay. Under
(30:33):
the law, there is no specific time required to prove
malice of forethought, or as we call it, premeditation. Premeditation
to commit an act can be formed in the blink
of an eye, the twinkling of the moment. Isn't that true? Debay?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yes, it is, okay, So when you say.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
The charges do not include uh intent, that's actually not correct.
This is a murder one charge.
Speaker 10 (30:59):
Is it.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Yes?
Speaker 9 (31:00):
No, I didn't say that it was not intentional. What
I'm saying is it wasn't planned in pre media this
you did?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Didn't he say that? Control room? Didn't he just say
that they're saying, yes, you did, just say that.
Speaker 9 (31:13):
Well, then I retract.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
We've got it on tape. Do I have to play
it back for you? For Pete's say, like the gas
station video.
Speaker 9 (31:20):
Is absolutely an intentional act, but it was not planned
and premeditated.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
In other words, it was for the moment.
Speaker 9 (31:26):
There's a difference.
Speaker 11 (31:26):
Murder.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
One is premeditated murder. I feel like I'm screaming at
a lamppost. Yes it is murder. One is with malice
a forethought.
Speaker 9 (31:39):
Malice of four thought standing alone does not necessarily mean premeditated.
It's a separate element.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
I'm telling you, Okay, what do you think malice of
four thought is? Because I'm looking up black slaw dictionary
right now, go ahead. I can't wait to hear this.
What do you think malice of four thought is?
Speaker 9 (31:54):
Malis of four thought? Is intentional killing? That's the bottom line.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Either, yes, that's right.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
It is.
Speaker 9 (32:04):
However, yes, that's right.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
It's intentional killing in you form intent, you have a plan.
Speaker 9 (32:13):
Not necessarily absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I'm wasting very valuable time arguing with you about what
you just admitted these charges and correct me if I'm wrong.
Killer Brantley h joining us from dallymail dot com on
this from the very very beginning, Kila Brantley, he Nick
Reiner is charged with premeditated malice murder. That is what
(32:41):
first degree murder is. He is also charged with felony murder.
That's an alternative count, which means you don't have intent.
The state doesn't have to prove you had intent. But
a death occurred very simply during the commission of a felony.
(33:01):
In this case, that felony would clearly be aggravated assault
with a NiFe. You don't have to have intent to
prove felony murder, just that a death occurred during the
commission of a felony. And a sentence for felony murder
can be life without parole or death penalty. Again, tell
me the charge is Keila Brantley.
Speaker 7 (33:24):
It's two first degree murder charges.
Speaker 8 (33:26):
There's the special circumstance and the special weapon charge right there,
and like you said, either life in prison without the
possibility of parole or the death penalty.
Speaker 6 (33:38):
Nick Reiner will be then brought to court. He is
going through medical clearance, something that everybody who goes who
gets arrested and gets held in a Los Angeles County
Sheriff's Department jail goes through. Once he is medically cleared,
he will be brought to court to be arraigned on
these charges. At that point he will enter a plea
of guilty or not guilty.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Kila Brantley joining us deallymail dot com. Why was he
a no show in court?
Speaker 8 (34:04):
According to Reiner's lawyer Alan Jackson, he wasn't medically cleared
to appear in court.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Now.
Speaker 8 (34:10):
We don't know exactly what that means, but as you
heard there, that's something that's very standard. Everyone needs to
get medically cleared. Now, this could be a psych evaluation,
it could be a regular medical evaluation.
Speaker 7 (34:23):
We're still finding that out.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
It could be him refusing to put his clothes on.
It could be him clinging to his bunk and refusing
to go. We don't know what it is. Dbay, what
is the reason that he was not quote medically cleared?
Don't make something up? Okay, he missed court?
Speaker 9 (34:42):
Why I'm telling you. When he got booked, they brought
him to the Twin Towers Correctional Facility and they put
him in the medical unit. My hunches and it's just
based on my years of doing this stuff that when
they arrested him, they felt he was a danger to
himself or to others still, so they put him under
what's my guess is they put him under what's called
a fifty one to fifty status where It's basically an
(35:06):
involuntary hold for a minimum of seventy two hours unless
and until he is cleared by a doctor, and that
includes going to court. If he is still psychotic, he
cannot be brought to court. So my hunch is that
they needed to medicate him to therapeutic levels, at least
in the short term, so he could be brought to
court for the arraignment. If they need to extend the hold,
(35:28):
they can do it, I believe up to two weeks.
Anything beyond that they have to go into court, the
Mental Health Court for an order extending the involuntary hold
pending arraignment.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
To Quila Brantley, have you heard anything at all about
him being in psychosis suicide watch? What do you know
if anything about that?
Speaker 8 (35:49):
Not yet, we haven't heard anything about his current status.
But what we have found out from family friends of
the Reiners, people who knew him his entire life, is
that from an early age he appeared to be a
difficult child through tantrums. One of the sources is quoted
as saying he had anger in his eyes and at
some point his father, Rob Reiner, would have to restrain
(36:11):
him during these tantrums, and that those tantrums really progressed
into adulthood.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Doctor Bethany Marshall. Just because Nick Reiner has been booked
into Twin Towers, that means nothing to me. Other people,
other celebrities have been there Cosby, Bill Cosby, OJ Simpson,
Al Capone, Ted Bundy, Birdman of Alcatraz, Bernie Madoff who
(36:37):
worked the world's largest Ponzi scheme. He certainly wasn't crazy.
He was brilliant, evil, but brilliant, and many many others.
How Debey is extrapolating because he went to Twin Towers
must mean he's on a psychiatric hold. That doesn't make sense.
What do you think is happening, Doctor Bethany?
Speaker 10 (36:58):
Another tantrum, another tantrum out of an abundance of caution.
They're going to make sure he doesn't want to harden
himself or other people. But he's not a risk there.
What I'm going to say is when you diagnose people,
you can diagnose them on five axes. Access one is
mental disorders. Access to is personality disorders. They're treating him
(37:19):
like he has a mental disorder, but this, Nancy, this
is personality driven. He had tantrums from the time he
was very little. According to one report, when he was
eleven years old, he had such a huge tantrum that
his father had to put him in a big bear
hug and hold him to help him regulate down into
(37:43):
a normal state. Could it be that.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Nick Bethany is Bethany? Can I tell you something pleased
before you say one more word before we hear any more?
Made up theories from Philip Dubay, and he wins a
lot of cases on arguments just like this, the way
Paris Hilton, who has since become quite the hero on
various fronts and now is a married mom. Paris Hilton
(38:09):
was put in the Twin Towers after violating probation from
a dui. She was put there because she was quote claustrophobic,
all right, So all of Dubay spinning out his theories
that's not supported by the facts we know tonight. He
(38:29):
just happened to be booked into Twin Towers. It's in
that jurisdiction, So that really means nothing to me probatively
at this juncture. But I do know he's hired a
very high profile lawyer, Alan Jackson.
Speaker 14 (38:44):
We'll be back day to day.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
The bailiff has indicated that the Sheriff's.
Speaker 13 (38:47):
Department will take it on a day, day by day basis,
and so hopefully we'll be kid tomorrow that you can.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Get a pear from our friends at Fox News Digital
Sidney Sumner. Who is paying for him?
Speaker 11 (39:00):
That is the million dollar question. I don't think his
siblings are footing the bill, and I don't know what
kind of funds he has access to that don't belong
to his parents. So it's very unclear where Alan Jackson
is going to get his paycheck from.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Two special guests joining us now Doctor Kendall Crown's renowned
chief medical examiner of Terrant County. That's fort Worth. He
is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine
at TCU, and he's the star of a hit view podcast,
Mayhem and the Morgue. But don't be filled by his
joviality on his podcast. He has conducted thousands and thousands
(39:40):
of autopsies, Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank you for being with us.
Doctor Crowns. There's a big difference in stab wounds and
the slicing of his parents' throats. What would the stab
wounds to the body, not the slicing of the throats
indicate to you.
Speaker 14 (40:00):
So stab wound is a wound that is actually long
longer than it or the wound itself is shorter than
it is deep. So as the knife enters into the skin,
it leaves a wound that is very small, but the
actual wound course is very deep. The wounds they're describing
on the rhiners is a slashing wound or in sized
(40:23):
wound that is longer than it is deep. So it's
kind of a shallow wound that hits multiple organs or
multiple vessels, but doesn't go very deep into the tissues.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Well, let me understand something, doctor Kendal Crowns. Even though
the slicing mess you just made doesn't have to be deep,
in fact, it can be quite shallow. That would likely
be the mortal wound. And why.
Speaker 14 (40:51):
So the vessels are the structures in your neck prouded
a jugular vein, you're trachea. They're all very close to
the surface, like millimeters or less than a quarter inch
below your skin. You have these vital structures. You hit
the crotted argery, it's going to start spurting blood out,
and it's going to be lots of blood coming out
(41:12):
in a very short period of time. You'll be dead
in minutes. If you just hit the jugular vein, it'll
start oozing heavily, and again you'll be dead in minutes.
You cut the cut the trachia, you're going to have
trouble breathing. And when you cut the trachia, you'll also
cut blood vessels. You'll get blood into your trachea. So
when you're dying, you're sucking in blood and you're basically
(41:33):
drowning in your own blood as you're bleeding to death.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Doctor Kennel Crowns, we know that when their daughter Roamy
arrived and called authorities. The fire department arrived and they
stated that the rhiners were already in full rigor. That
tells me at approximate time of death. Could you explain so?
Speaker 14 (41:54):
Rigor mortis is the stiffening of the joints that occurs
after you die. And what happened is your muscles continue
to use these the things they use fro metabolism even
after you die, and when they run out of these substances,
they go into full contraction. And this can start occurring
in about a half hour to an hour after death
(42:17):
and gets to a maximum about twelve hours, so it
starts in the small muscles first and then goes to
the larger muscles throughout your body. So if you see
full rigor, it could be about twelve hours, but it
can be affected by activity, drug use, how much blood
loss you've had, a number of other factors, how warm
it is in the house, So using it as an
(42:38):
exact time frame for the post wornum interval is difficult.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 12 (42:54):
Round.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Isn't it true that after a period of hours when
someone is in rigor, the rigor breaks and their the
deceased limbs become limber again.
Speaker 14 (43:06):
Yes, after the twelve hour interval. After the twelve hour
interval of its setting up, you'll stay in full rigor
for about ten to twelve hours, and after that it
starts to subside and disappears over another twelve hours unless
someone moves it and breaks the rigor up manually, and
then it goes away completely. So you have about a
(43:28):
twenty four hour window of full rigor before it disappears.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Okay, is it twelve hours or twenty four hours?
Speaker 14 (43:34):
So twelve hours is set up ten to twelve hours
after it sets up, where it stays in place, and
then after that it begins to subside over another twelve hours.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Okay, Dodger Kendall Crowns, what type of defensive wounds would
you have expected to be found on the shell and
Rob Reiner's bodies. We've heard nothing about defensive wounds such
as blocking with the hands, the arms, even curling up
in a fatal position and getting defensive wounds on the
knees or the legs. I've heard nothing about that. I've
(44:06):
only heard about stabs we believe to the torso.
Speaker 14 (44:11):
So since they were in bed and may have been
in sleep, they could have not even seen this coming
and not had an opportunity to react. Since there's two individuals,
at least one individual probably was awoken by the other
individual being killed and may have had a chance to
defend themselves. They usually defensive wounds is what you see
as the individual trying to grab the knife and trying
(44:33):
not to be stabbed, and you'll see slices or in
sized wounds across the fingers, across the palm of the hand,
and then you'll see also in size wounds or stab
wounds of the forearms as they're trying to block the
block the knife of themselves. And again, like you said,
you may pull up your legs even and you'll see
stab wounds or in size wounds on the legs and feet.
Speaker 10 (44:55):
Do we all just.
Speaker 16 (44:56):
Forget that Rob Rider was on this list?
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Or what now he's dead?
Speaker 2 (45:01):
What the zany conspiracy theories have already started? Sidney Summer,
a Crime Stories investigative reporter, I don't recall Rob Reiner's
name being on the Epstein list, by the way. That's
from at Hunter Montross on TikTok.
Speaker 11 (45:14):
Said, Well, the list that that user is standing in
front of is not real. That is a faith list
that has been circulating on social media, and Rob Reiner's
name is on that faith list and circled. But there's
no actual evidence supporting that he had any types to
Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
So sorry, Hunter, your zany conspiracy theory doesn't hold water.
Rob Reiner was not on the Epstein list for Pete's sake,
but there's no lack of theories. Maybe Philip Dubay can
use these as the defense listen.
Speaker 5 (45:47):
Rob had been working on a series called The Spy
and the Asset. The series was going to be about
Putin and Donald Trump their upbringings, different ways they intersected,
and in Rob's words, what happens to democracy as a
result of this convergence, that relationship of Trump and Putin
being explored and extrapolated and navigated is going to bring
(46:07):
a whole lot of corruption up to the surface.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Right that? From at Studio A eight on TikTok to
Scott Iiker joining us, who was a founding member of
the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team, Scott, I think I'd
rather rely not on zany conspiracy theories. I will leave
that to our veterman trial lawyer, Phillip Dbay. Scott, I'd
(46:30):
rather deal with hard facts. How difficult is it going
to be for me to trace Nick Reiner's cell phone,
where he went that night, any credit card or atm
use and what was it for? I need to track
(46:50):
not only his phone, but where there was a delay.
Even in the Alex Murdog case where Murdoch murdered his
wife Maggie and son Paul as he left the scene,
I got from his well. Prosecutor Waters got from his
nav system where he slowed down and the nav system
showed Scott Iiker him lowering the passenger side window electronically
(47:15):
that's where he threw out Maggie's cell phone. Then he
let the window up, sped up and went and hit
out at his mother's house, who had dementia and really
could not say what time he got there. That said,
that's what I'm looking for. You know, this guy didn't
think deeply enough to turn his phone on airplane mode
(47:36):
or turn it off when he discarded of the knife.
So how am I going to find the knife?
Speaker 16 (47:43):
It sure does look like a crime of passion in
those instances. A lot of times the suspects do not
turn off the phones, don't think ahead like that. Once
you get the identified, identifying information about the suspect, phone records,
(48:04):
vehicle records, credit cards. Is really interesting how you can
put a timeline together and kind of piece together all
the things that happened before and after the crime.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Hey, Scott Iiker, you and I have both marveled at
the video montage put together by l E law enforcement
in the Photusdulo's case. They got him every which way
but loose on video from ring doorbell cams to stop
like cam. This is after his wife, Jennifer, the mother
(48:36):
of his five children, was murdered. I'm thinking that this
neighborhood is blanketed in ring doorbell and stop like cam
you name it. I bet they can follow him almost
everywhere he went. And if he took an uber or
share a right share, there may be video in there
that can help me track him and find the knife.
(49:00):
That said, here's another zany theory.
Speaker 5 (49:02):
Listen up, do bay Nick Reiner, who is allegedly the
murderer in this case, the son of Robin Michelle, who
killed both of his parents. Allegedly, his name did not
appear on Google trends really at all. Here's it in
the United States, the United States, Nick Reiner. Nothing nothing.
This is showing starting yesterday fourteenth, So that was the
(49:22):
United States. This is what happens when you look up
the exact same query and only changed the geolocation to
be tel Aviv instead of the United States. Nick Reiner,
tel Aviv nothing nothing nothing. Oh, look at that two
bumps a couple months ago, last month. Interesting, all of
a sudden bumps, I can from.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
S Studio A eight on TikTok so dobay. I guess
she's arguing you might want to take notes to put
this in with your drugs. Like hoastist theory that he
what is actually a spy. She's mentioning tel Aviv. I
don't know what that has to do with. Maybe he's
an avatar, maybe he's a good Maybe he doesn't even exist.
(50:02):
Then who's that sitting in the twin towers?
Speaker 9 (50:05):
I gotta tell you, I think it's genius because if
we're all honest, it forms the basis of the not
guilty by reason of insanity defense. If he truly thinks
that he's going to be beamed up by the Starship
Enterprise and he's got all kinds of wild imagining.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Nobody said that. You said that, What else would it?
He just didn't have a Google profile, he had no
social media profile. The fact that we haven't, and now
you're claiming you've got another psychosis defense because he's not
a social media.
Speaker 9 (50:33):
No, not because of that.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
Okay, good, I'm happy you said that. I couldn't be
more happy. I hope you used that at trial, hey,
just to throw this into your crazy pot to Steve Listen.
Speaker 5 (50:45):
Donald Trump got on True Social and said this, which
is horrific and tonally and timeline wise to me, does
seem like a confession.
Speaker 7 (50:56):
He's listed motive right there.
Speaker 5 (50:58):
Means doesn't even need to be explained. And the funny
thing is he got on camera today and doubled down
on it again, specifically the part with Russia. He was like,
he's trying to look into this and dig all this
stuff up, and as you know, it's always the opposite
where like there's nothing weird there.
Speaker 7 (51:14):
It's just so blatantly obvious.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
At Studio eight on TikTok so dtor Bethany Marshall, I
don't think that's going to help Alan Jackson at this
juncture that Trump confess to a motive.
Speaker 10 (51:32):
No, it is not. I mean, conspiracy theorists take something
that is sort of benign. I hate to call domestic
combicide benign, but it does happen, and they try to
spin a whole theory out of it, to try to
make it a part of a predictable universe.
Speaker 11 (51:49):
But it's not.
Speaker 10 (51:49):
You know, people love to form patterns, and so conspiracy
theorists will try to form a pattern out of an
outlier like domestic homicide, and that's all this is that
they're just trying to form a pattern, Nancy.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
The investigation is ongoing right now. We are waiting for
Nick Reiner to appear in court. If you know anything
or think you know anything about the case, whether you
observed Reiner, observed him in the gas station, observed him
in a ride chair, anything, please help The LAPD dial
(52:28):
eight hundred two two two eight four seven seven repeat
eight hundred two two two eight four seven seven. Tonight
we remember an American hero investigator, Lewis Roller, Oklahoma District
Attorney's Office, killed in the line of duty after thirty
five years, leaving behind a wife turned widow in two children.
(52:50):
American hero investigator Lewis Roller. Nancy Gray signing off good
by friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Shock arrest after a local hotel finds a trail of
blood leading all the way to the shower. After the
brutal murder of Hollywood legend Rob Reiner and his wife
Michelle found stabbed in their beds, multiple stab wounds, slices,
(00:26):
including slices to the arterial veins across the neck. This
as in the last hours, a high profile lawyer strides
in insisting his client is innocent. I'm Nancy Grace. This
is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being
with us.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Rob Reiner and his wife were murdered.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Their daughter came across the street that she was right
across the road, and.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Then she finds their bodies. They had multiple stab wounds.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
I got totally spun out on uppers. I think it
was coke and something else, and I was up for
days on end, and I started punching out different things
in my guest.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Outs, like a frame, like what like a stuff.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
I think I.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
Started with the TV, and then I went over to
the lamp, and then progressively I just everything in the
guest house got wrecked.
Speaker 6 (01:23):
Our office will be filing charges against Nick Reiner, who
was accused of killing his parents, actor director Rob Reiner
and photographer producer Michelle Singer Reiner. These charges will be
two counts of first degree murder with a special circumstance
of multiple murders. He also fast is a special allegation
(01:46):
that he personally used a dangerous and deadly weapon, that
being a knife.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
You are hearing the local district attorney, and earlier you
were hearing Rob Reiner, Michelle Reiner's son Nick Reiner, describing
how he totally got spun out on uppers. I think
I was on coke and something else. I was up
for days on end and started punching out different things
in my guest house. Let me just do a quick
(02:13):
little correction right there, Kilo Brantley joining us, a reporter
at large dailymail dot com. It wasn't his guest house.
He was living on the largesse of his parents, Rob
and Michelle Reiner, and this wasn't the first time he
totally destroyed the guest house. I mean, the entitlement of
(02:35):
this guy. Is it true? From what very different from
what we first learned that Rob and Michelle Singer Reiner
were found their throats slit in their own bed. Is
that true? Kila Brantley.
Speaker 7 (02:51):
That's exactly right, Nancy.
Speaker 8 (02:53):
It was around Sunday at three point thirty pm when
their bodies were discovered. And what we're now learning is
Rob and Michelle Reiner had been dead in their bed
for some hours. So of course now the police are
putting together a timeline of when this could have happened.
We know Saturday night there was a fight with Nick
and his parents at a party at Conin O'Brien's house
(03:16):
at Christmas party, and by Sunday at three thirty pm
they were found dead.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Guys, in the last hours, video has emerged of the
sun Nick Reiner. Now this is after he allegedly murders
both his parents in their sleep. Which are going to
circle back to Phillip Dubay about I mean, talk about
stalking and predating upon someone attacking your parents in the dark,
in their sleep when they can't fight back. After that,
(03:45):
and after he checks into a local hotel and cleans up,
he's spotted here, let's take a look at Nick Reiner.
This is the latest happening. Now there he is, Wow,
he pet clean clothes, he has on a mat outfit.
Check it out. He's got on shoes, without blood, new
pants without blood. He's got a backpack, a jacket against
(04:09):
the cold, a hat. Let's keep watching this because I
see him walk in, fully aware of what's happening, going
straight to the drink area. He gets a drink, then
he goes and stands in line. Yeah, looks totally sane,
doesn't he. This is from CBS News. By the way,
(04:30):
Philip Dubay joining us a high profile lawyer out of
La County, former public defender. There's gonna really be hard
for his new high profile lawyer, Alan Jackson, who represented
Karen Reid to argue mental defect because he looks completely
sane right there. He knew to pack. Could you take
(04:52):
him down please? He need to pack new clothes, fresh clothes.
What happened to the murder weapon? Has it been hidden?
Did he know enough to hide or discard the murder
weapons so it will never be found? What knife was that?
What utensel did he use to stab his parents and
slit their throats? He knows how to go into a
(05:14):
gas station. He goes straight to what he wants. He
gets it, closes the fridge behind him, comes up to
the line and stands there patiently waiting to pay, pays
for his food, his drink. Wow, he looks just like
you deby going into a gas station. You don't look
crazy to me.
Speaker 9 (05:33):
If you killed during the throes of psychosis, or if
you kill while under the influence of some type of
NEF induced situation, like a form of methands psychosis, it
cannot form the basis of a lethod fats. The jury
can factor it in and deciding whether or not he
had the intent to kill, but you're not going to
(05:53):
walk away from it. And I think what the evidence
will probably show is that at some point he was
going through some type of the drug induced euphoria, likely
from methamphetamine, and that it dissipated and he went to
what we call that meth or cocaine crash. And that's
why you're seeing him so calm afterwards.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Uh huh, uh huh. Did you interview Nick Reiner and
learn all this or you just guessing, You're just projecting
he was on meth he was on coke. Now he's
in an uphoric downer, and he was a psychosist at
the time he murdered his parents. You're just kind of extrapolating,
is that right?
Speaker 9 (06:35):
I am telling you. He is a statistic He is
the mirror image of that homeless drug addicted population out
there that goes through that meth or cocai. It dissipates
and then they crash and during that crash stage they
are cool.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
You're saying the same thing again? Or am I caught
in a demonic echo chamber? Are you making this all up?
Did anybody tell you this? Are you co cal with
a high profile lawyer and you know this by some
interview with a diffendant? Or are you just spinning it out?
Speaker 9 (07:07):
That's the yes, I am enriching you as to what
the likelihood is.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
That's really what's being okay.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
So where did you get your information? If you could
reveal that.
Speaker 9 (07:19):
I'll tell you what tipped me off that that's what
happened when he was arrested. They booked him into the
Twin Towers Correctional Facility rather than the Men's County jail.
So what that and that is the largest psych hospital
in the United States within a jail system. It tells
me that at the point of the step.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
To stop, you must cut his mic because for Pete's sake,
Paris Hilton was booked in the Twin towers. That means
nothing to me. The fact that he's in the twins town.
You are spinning out like ru rubble still skin. You're
taking mangy looking with hay and you're turning it into gold.
But guess what that doesn't work with a venoin try lawyer.
(08:00):
That would be me the live stop right here. You
know nothing about his mental state. You know nothing about
whether he was on speed, whether it's on meth, whether
he's on coke, much less a euphick downer after bottom line.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
You know what?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Why am I asking a JD like myself mental health
questions when I've got doctor Bethany Marshall with me, renowned
psycho analyst joining us of this jurisdiction along with Dubay,
author of deal Breakers. You can see her on Peacock
now and find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.
Doctor Bethany Philip Dubay is talking about statistics, and all
(08:39):
trial lawyers know, if they've ever tried a case and
they're not just a talking head, that statistics are overwhelmingly
disallowed as evidence at court. So that's not happening now.
It doesn't matter if Rainer as in the son Nick
Reiner had been on meth. It doesn't matter if he's
(09:02):
on coke. It doesn't matter what he's on. Voluntary use
of drugs or alcohol not a defense, Bethany, I would
like you to look at your screen. We're gonna look
at this gas station video again. A lot of you
may be wondering why is this important? Because Alan Jackson
has swooped in the Karen Reid lawyer. This is from
(09:22):
CBS News, by the way, and I already see, as
Dubay said rightfully, that they're gonna try a metal defense argument. Okay,
but look at this guy. This is a couple of
hours after he allegedly slits the throats of both of
his parents. You know why, because he just couldn't take
(09:43):
living in that multimillionaire home, that lifestyle he was given
on a silver platter on top of a Christmas tree.
Speaker 10 (09:53):
You know, Nancy, I see somebody walking casually around in
Mini March getting a drink. He show signs of drug
abuse here. He's not pacing, he's not agitated. He looks
quite calm to me. So instead of putting this in
the drug addiction category where somebody's on mess and there's overkill,
which I speculated to yesterday. What I'm going to say
(10:15):
now is that often with domestic homicide, when somebody successfully
kills a family member, there's an extraordinary relief phase afterwards.
So they will be quite calm. They will like go shopping,
They will I mean a Casey Anthony dance on the
stripper pole.
Speaker 11 (10:34):
They will go out.
Speaker 10 (10:35):
And enjoy their lives. Now, in terms of drug abuse,
I've been looking at all the interviews last night, Nancy,
and one of the things I noticed about this guy,
Rob Reiner's son is he does a lot of what
we call tongue thrusting, pushing his tongue out as he's talking,
which means that he has tart of dyskenesia, which is
a signed of antipsychotic medication. Meaning this guy was in
(11:01):
the lap of luxury of psychiatric care. He had the
best psychiatrist, the best hospitalizations, everything available to him. I
see this as much more psychological than something that is
related to drug addiction.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
I want to go to Rob Shooter joining us, a
star of Naughty but Nice podcast, author of a brand
new book, It Started with a Whisper, which is a
big hit on Amazon. Now. You can find him at
Robsheeter dot substact dot com publicist to the stars, you know,
Rob Sheheeter. I'm going to put you under the microscope
(11:39):
right now and do a lightning round. Isn't it true?
You know Nick Reiner? Isn't that true?
Speaker 3 (11:46):
I've met Nick Rider?
Speaker 12 (11:47):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
So then simple answer, yes, And you have actually sat
down and had a meal with him? Yes?
Speaker 3 (11:55):
No, uh, coffee with him and I maybe across ont.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
That's not a yes, no, but whatever. When you were
with him, did he seem psychotic or just a spoiled brad.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
A spoiled brat.
Speaker 13 (12:12):
He felt entitled, explained he turned up late from meeting
that he arranged.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
I didn't arrange it.
Speaker 13 (12:19):
So he wanted to meet with me in La and
he turned up late, kind of late, late enough that
you notice, not five ten minutes late late.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
That bothered me.
Speaker 13 (12:27):
When he turned up, he was rude to the staff,
which is always a tell when you turn up and
you're rude to people. I remember at one point they
got his order wrong and he blew off the handle
really shockingly shockingly quick, and then came back down and
sat and talked. He was arrogant, he was entitled, and
he's sort of had a sense of himself that was
(12:49):
way bigger than the reality.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
He believed that he was a.
Speaker 13 (12:54):
Major player in Hollywood, the same way that he believed
he trashed his guest.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
How, No, you are not a major player in Hollywood.
Speaker 13 (13:03):
Your parents are, your dad is, and that ain't your
guest has it's your dad's Rob.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
But why did he want to meet with you? What
did he want?
Speaker 13 (13:12):
He was struggling. He wanted to be a really successful screenwriter.
He wanted to be famous. I think he desperately wanted
to step out of his mom and dad and his
grandpa's shadow. He was a lost guy, and he had
access to resources that the rest of us people struggling
in the entertainment business would absolutely, absolutely desire. He had
(13:35):
phone numbers, he had emails, he had contacts. But unfortunately
here he didn't have a lot of talent, and so
he had trouble squaring that. And he was looking. He
was looking for somebody to come along and turn him
into the next amazing screenwriter, which obviously I couldn't do,
and nobody else could do any he could do, and
he didn't have the gifts to do that.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Rob. Sure, you stated that he contacted you to meet
with him because he wanted to become a successful screenwriter.
What is your experience, Shooter as a screenwriter?
Speaker 3 (14:07):
My experience is zero. I have never written a screenplay.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Okay, So what you're good at, what your forte is
is you are a PR guru. People from all around
the world come to you for PR help, public relations help,
whether they're in a crisis or they just want to
become famous for whatever reason. You've seen it all from
Britney to Sean Combs, so many more. So he didn't
(14:33):
come to you for help to become a screenwriter. He
came to you because he wanted to be famous.
Speaker 13 (14:40):
Yeah, there was no craft there. He didn't come to
me to learn the art of becoming successful. He had
no interest in learning his craft. He had no interest
in taking a screenwriting class, in learning how to do this.
He wanted to go straight from zero to one hundred.
And this is not that uncommoney, It very rarely happens.
But everybody he wants to be famous. Everybody wants to
(15:01):
be successful. Are you willing to put in the work,
the hours, the hours, the years, the years.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
I tell everybody that works.
Speaker 13 (15:08):
With me for a little bit of success, it's going
to take five to ten years of hard work.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
He wasn't willing to do that. He wanted to go
straight from a zero to one hundred.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Well, how did he want you to make him famous?
What were you supposed to do?
Speaker 13 (15:22):
He had no idea how I'd do it. He thought
I'd done it for other people. I explained to him,
very very carefully, that I had worked with a lot
of lot of celebrities, but I hadn't turned anybody into
a star who didn't do the work, and that everybody
I worked with, from a Jennifer Lopez.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
To a Jean bon Jovi, works their pailoff.
Speaker 13 (15:42):
There's there's this thing, this this perception out there that
you can become famous overnight without doing the work, and
it's just not true.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
You have to do the work. He shows almost zero
interest in that.
Speaker 13 (15:53):
I asked him if he if he had a screenplay,
show me your play, let me let me read it,
let me see.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
He hadn't even put together a send on He said
me nothing.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Okay, does that change your opinion? Dr Bethany Marshall, what
you are learning from Rob's shooter? Now we're getting to
the very latest. We know where he's being held right now.
We know what his lawyer is up to. We have
seen the very latest of videos and evidence. We have
evidence from the hotel where he snuck into and literally
(16:24):
blacked out the windows with sheets hiding out, where he
cleaned up, leaving behind blood in the shower, his parents'
blood before I get to that. This is a real
insight for me. Dtor Bethany Marshall. I usually don't get
to have this when I'm looking at a target. This
(16:45):
changes a lot for me, this insight into Nick Reiner's mind. Bethany, Yes, it.
Speaker 10 (16:52):
Changes a lot for me too. I was fascinated by
what Rob was saying because what I'm hearing is true entitlement.
Entitlement is the expectation of reward without achievement. You want
to be at the top of Mount Everest, but you
don't want to work out high, get all the equipment,
try to get yourself to the top. You just want
to be magically helicopter there. And so people who have
(17:16):
severe addictions, like obviously Nick did, they have to work
really hard to surmount those addictions, right.
Speaker 11 (17:23):
They have to go to rehab.
Speaker 10 (17:25):
They have to surround themselves with a community that will
hold them responsible. But if you're drug addicted and entitled,
you are not going to put in the work to
gain sobriety. Now, if you're living in a guest house
with very rich, very talented, renowned parents, what you're going
to see is a sack of gold on the other
(17:47):
side of the driveway, and it's yours. It doesn't belong
to them anymore. Now it's yours. You should have it yourself,
even though maybe you haven't done anything to earn it, right,
Maybe you haven't gone to Conan Brian's Christmas party and
chatted people up and been kind and you know, taking pictures,
shake hands or anything like that. You just think that
(18:09):
it belongs to you. And so what I hear is
somebody who thinks he should be famous. He doesn't have
the talent, he doesn't want to put in the work.
He is building up this boiling resentment towards his parents
who did put in the work, and his grandfather who
did put in the work. And envy, that green eyed
(18:30):
monster envy. When you want something somebody else has and
you don't feel you can get it for yourself, it
causes the wish to destroy the object of your envy.
And I think That's what we're seeing right now, is
that he just he destroyed his parents, even though they
gave him every benefit, every opportunity. He thought he could
just skate in and you know, have lunch with our
(18:54):
not ey but nice you know person here, and that
all of a sudden he would be famous. It's the
offending pattern. I see it everywhere now as we're talking
about it tonight, as we go.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
To air tonight, we are learning the district attorney there
in LA has filed formal charges including illegal eagles if
you caught this special circumstances, which means the death penalty
is on the table.
Speaker 6 (19:20):
These charges carry a maximum sentence of life in prison
without the possibility parole or the death penalty. No decision
at this point has been made with respect to the
death penalty. We have requested and currently Nick Reiner is
being held without bail. One of these special allegations is
(19:41):
that the murder was committed with a deadly weapon or
a knife. As to where and how the weapon will
be was located or will be located, that will actually
be evidence while presenting.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Court the murtyrs of Rob Reiner and wife Michelle Singer
Reiner stabbed Dad multiple stab ones.
Speaker 14 (20:03):
The injuries to the neck categorized as slash wings.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Both their throats slit arterial breed is like a water SPRINKLRK.
Speaker 14 (20:11):
I can guarantee you, but this is a blood track.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
And in the last hours, Nick Reiner, suspect number one
in the murders of Rob Reiner and wife Michelle Singer.
Reiner appears in court looking grim, wearing shackles and a
suicide smock as he makes his very first court appearance
in the murder cases Sydney Summer. What happened?
Speaker 12 (20:38):
What happened Nancy? Essentially nothing? Alan Jackson tells the judge
he's already spoken with the prosecution and they agree to
postpone Reiner's arrangement until the new year, so they'll be
back in court on January seventh. The judge asks Reiner
if he agrees to waive his right to a speedy arrangement,
and Reiner meekly responds, yes, your honor. The only thing
(20:59):
we really learned here is that Reiner is likely being
held on suicide watch, evidenced by that barely visible blue smock.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
So Sidney Sumner, they spoiled bratt, turn accused double killer,
said very little in court. He appeared behind glass, he
was shackled. He did not enter a plea.
Speaker 12 (21:20):
Why Mister Jackson answered that for his client, telling the
judge it's too early to enter a plea as he
had just a few minutes with his client before this
initial appearance. It seems the court is already on holiday mode,
as both prosecutors and the judge quickly agreed to postpone
until January seventh.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Nick Rhyner's arrayment originally scheduled for this week, but once
high profile lawyer Alan Jackson enters the scene, Jackson waives
the right to speedy arrangnment and it has been delayed.
Remember a defense attorney's best friend, Delay, delay, delay, and
so it has started.
Speaker 12 (22:10):
Well, I don't think we can be too hard on Jackson, yet,
I'm not sure this delay can be categorized as unnecessary.
We saw Jackson go into the courthouse less than forty
five minutes before this arraignment, giving him just a few
minutes to meet with Reiner and the prosecutors. I can't
blame him for pushing back a plea to get a
chance to actually sit down with Reiner and get a
(22:32):
better understanding of his story.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
They arrest Rob Reiner and Michelle Singer, Reiner's son, goes
down in a public location, and eyewitnesses state that Nick Reiner,
the defendant in this case, seemingly was acting like a
quote ordinary guy.
Speaker 15 (22:49):
He was arrested in in a public area in the
Exposition Park area near the University of Southern California campus.
He was approached by the officers and he was arrested
without incident. There were no indications that there was no
indication that he was going to resist or anything like that.
He didn't flee or anything like that. He was taking
into custoy without issue, and he was transported to our
(23:13):
police are quorts.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Calo Brantley joining US investigative reporter dailymail dot com, Kela,
what happened? Tell me about how the arrest went down.
Speaker 8 (23:21):
Yeah, as you can see from those pictures and as
was described by the officer, Nick Reiner appeared very calm collected.
He didn't put up a fight, and you can see
in these pictures right here, you know, he put his
arms behind his back. He was not a risk, He
was not resisting arrest, and it appears that he was
in those same clothes that he was seen in that
earlier surveillance footage that you showed, So he didn't have
(23:43):
a change of clothes, and he was taken.
Speaker 7 (23:45):
Away very easily.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Tell me about what was found at the hotel.
Speaker 7 (23:50):
It was a horrific scene.
Speaker 8 (23:52):
Now, what we've learned is that there was blood everywhere.
He's obviously changed his clothes. There was no blood on
him as you saw there. And what they haven't found yet,
or what they haven't disclosed that they've found yet, is
a murder weapon. So obviously everyone's assuming that there was
a knife that was used for those lacerations to his parents' throat,
but we haven't learned yet if that has been found
(24:14):
or if it was found in the hotel or at
the crime scene.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
You're right, Calebrantley, dailymail dot com. Take a listen to
the LA district's attorney.
Speaker 6 (24:22):
One of these special allegations is that the murder was
committed with a deadly weapon or a knife. As to
where and how the weapon will be was located or
will be located, that will actually be evidence. While presenting court,
you see.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
The local district attorney seemingly correcting himself, pausing there about
the weapon well, it will be located. It was located,
That tells me that the weapon has been discarded. Much
like in the Brian Coburger case. We found the knife
hilt with the dependance DNA on it underneath one of
(25:03):
the murder victims, but we never found the actual knife.
Interesting joining me Scott Iiker, digital forensics expert, founding member
of the FBI Cellular Analysis serve A Team FBI twenty
two years and former homicide detective in Norfolk. Scott, thank
(25:26):
you for being with us. I want to find that weapon,
and after much analysis, I think the best way to
find the weapon is to track Nick Reiner's sell phone.
Speaker 16 (25:39):
How do we do it, Well, there are several different
ways to do that. You've got all the different applications
on the cell phone and the cellular connections that the
cell phone makes all the time when it's on, so
you can track the towers. You can get more detailed
information from distance from the towers, and you might be
(25:59):
able to get some information from the applications like Google,
of Facebook, Instagram. All those provide some locational information so
you can track him historically from the house to the
hotel and maybe or to where he was arrested, which
was about, you know, twelve thirteen miles away, so there's
(26:20):
a good amount of distance between those locations. So they
got their work cut out to try to figure it out.
But obviously they've got this video. They've gotten to a
point they're putting a timeline together and they're just going
to chronologically go through each little step to see where
they could figure out where he might have.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Put that night, that gas station video from our friends
at CBS. So I'm going to go out on a
limb here and go back to Phillip d Bay. He
is actually a veteran trial lawyer. He's a defense attorney,
and he has been with the La County Public Defender's Office.
What does that mean? They're on trial all the time,
just like assistant district attorneys. There are thousands of cases
(27:01):
to be handled, and you've got to go to trial
or else you get fired. Very simply put, Philip Dubay,
this guy may have been in the movie Maylleu. He's
been around screenwriters, he's been around stars, he's been around
plenty of who Done It movies. But do you really
think that he thought too. He's only alleged to communities crimes.
(27:25):
But would he have thought so deeply to think, Oh,
let me turn my phone off before I get rid
of the murder weapon, let me put it on airplane mode.
I don't think so. Remember one of our last suspects
that put the phone on airplane mode?
Speaker 12 (27:41):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Yes, that would be very more few whose phone went
on airplane mode around the time his wife was killed
or went missing. So, Philip Dbay, do you really think
he thought that deeply when he got rid of the weapon.
Speaker 9 (28:01):
No, and I'll tell you why. I can tell by
the charges. The prosecution is not a legend that this
was a planned, premeditated murder. The only reason why he's
rising to the level of it being a special circumstance
is because there were multiple victims. They're not even a
legend that he did it for financial gain, which certainly
is the classic motive, particularly in the Hollywood. So what
(28:24):
you really have here is somebody who is out of
his mind, again likely due to psychosis, drugs, or maybe
even an untreated personality disorder, who flew off the handle
in a fit of rage for whatever reason, and fled
while still in that Either drug induce psychosis or some
type of mental health crisis. Does it excuse the behavior?
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Okay, you know what, City Sumner, that was all my
fault because you never on the stand anyway, ask a
witness a question that you don't already know the answer to.
So I ask him, do they about the weapon and
where it would have been discarded? And was the cell
phone turned on or off at the time the weapon
was discarded? And he goes back to his pretend drug
(29:09):
psychosis theory. Sidney Sumner, let's get some facts. Joining me
Sidney Sumner along with Kila Brandley, Daily Mail Sidney Sumner,
Crime Stories investigative reporter. What exactly are the charges against
Nick Reiner? We just heard the district attorney speaking. What
are the charges?
Speaker 11 (29:28):
Well, Nick Reiner is charged with two counts of murder
with the special circumstances of multiple murders because he killed
two people at the same time and that special circumstance
of using a deadly weapon.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Sidney, Aren't those murder charges first degree murder? Isn't that true?
Speaker 11 (29:50):
You're right, Nancy, they are first degree murder.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
And in this jurisdiction of California, murder one is murder
with malice of forethought. That's what murder one is in California, Sidney.
Speaker 11 (30:06):
Exactly, So there is some assumption that this was premeditated
in some degree.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
So when we hear Philip Dubay state that this is
not uh, these are not charges that include intent, that's
diametrically opposed to what the charges actually are. The charge
is murder one. Again out on a limb, Debay. Under
(30:33):
the law, there is no specific time required to prove
malice of forethought, or as we call it, premeditation. Premeditation
to commit an act can be formed in the blink
of an eye, the twinkling of the moment. Isn't that true? Debay?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yes, it is, okay, So when you say.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
The charges do not include uh intent, that's actually not correct.
This is a murder one charge.
Speaker 10 (30:59):
Is it.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Yes?
Speaker 9 (31:00):
No, I didn't say that it was not intentional. What
I'm saying is it wasn't planned in pre media this
you did?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Didn't he say that? Control room? Didn't he just say
that they're saying, yes, you did, just say that.
Speaker 9 (31:13):
Well, then I retract.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
We've got it on tape. Do I have to play
it back for you? For Pete's say, like the gas
station video.
Speaker 9 (31:20):
Is absolutely an intentional act, but it was not planned
and premeditated.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
In other words, it was for the moment.
Speaker 9 (31:26):
There's a difference.
Speaker 11 (31:26):
Murder.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
One is premeditated murder. I feel like I'm screaming at
a lamppost. Yes it is murder. One is with malice
a forethought.
Speaker 9 (31:39):
Malice of four thought standing alone does not necessarily mean premeditated.
It's a separate element.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
I'm telling you, Okay, what do you think malice of
four thought is? Because I'm looking up black slaw dictionary
right now, go ahead. I can't wait to hear this.
What do you think malice of four thought is?
Speaker 9 (31:54):
Malis of four thought? Is intentional killing? That's the bottom line.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Either, yes, that's right.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
It is.
Speaker 9 (32:04):
However, yes, that's right.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
It's intentional killing in you form intent, you have a plan.
Speaker 9 (32:13):
Not necessarily absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I'm wasting very valuable time arguing with you about what
you just admitted these charges and correct me if I'm wrong.
Killer Brantley h joining us from dallymail dot com on
this from the very very beginning, Kila Brantley, he Nick
Reiner is charged with premeditated malice murder. That is what
(32:41):
first degree murder is. He is also charged with felony murder.
That's an alternative count, which means you don't have intent.
The state doesn't have to prove you had intent. But
a death occurred very simply during the commission of a felony.
(33:01):
In this case, that felony would clearly be aggravated assault
with a NiFe. You don't have to have intent to
prove felony murder, just that a death occurred during the
commission of a felony. And a sentence for felony murder
can be life without parole or death penalty. Again, tell
me the charge is Keila Brantley.
Speaker 7 (33:24):
It's two first degree murder charges.
Speaker 8 (33:26):
There's the special circumstance and the special weapon charge right there,
and like you said, either life in prison without the
possibility of parole or the death penalty.
Speaker 6 (33:38):
Nick Reiner will be then brought to court. He is
going through medical clearance, something that everybody who goes who
gets arrested and gets held in a Los Angeles County
Sheriff's Department jail goes through. Once he is medically cleared,
he will be brought to court to be arraigned on
these charges. At that point he will enter a plea
of guilty or not guilty.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Kila Brantley joining us deallymail dot com. Why was he
a no show in court?
Speaker 8 (34:04):
According to Reiner's lawyer Alan Jackson, he wasn't medically cleared
to appear in court.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Now.
Speaker 8 (34:10):
We don't know exactly what that means, but as you
heard there, that's something that's very standard. Everyone needs to
get medically cleared. Now, this could be a psych evaluation,
it could be a regular medical evaluation.
Speaker 7 (34:23):
We're still finding that out.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
It could be him refusing to put his clothes on.
It could be him clinging to his bunk and refusing
to go. We don't know what it is. Dbay, what
is the reason that he was not quote medically cleared?
Don't make something up? Okay, he missed court?
Speaker 9 (34:42):
Why I'm telling you. When he got booked, they brought
him to the Twin Towers Correctional Facility and they put
him in the medical unit. My hunches and it's just
based on my years of doing this stuff that when
they arrested him, they felt he was a danger to
himself or to others still, so they put him under
what's my guess is they put him under what's called
a fifty one to fifty status where It's basically an
(35:06):
involuntary hold for a minimum of seventy two hours unless
and until he is cleared by a doctor, and that
includes going to court. If he is still psychotic, he
cannot be brought to court. So my hunch is that
they needed to medicate him to therapeutic levels, at least
in the short term, so he could be brought to
court for the arraignment. If they need to extend the hold,
(35:28):
they can do it, I believe up to two weeks.
Anything beyond that they have to go into court, the
Mental Health Court for an order extending the involuntary hold
pending arraignment.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
To Quila Brantley, have you heard anything at all about
him being in psychosis suicide watch? What do you know
if anything about that?
Speaker 8 (35:49):
Not yet, we haven't heard anything about his current status.
But what we have found out from family friends of
the Reiners, people who knew him his entire life, is
that from an early age he appeared to be a
difficult child through tantrums. One of the sources is quoted
as saying he had anger in his eyes and at
some point his father, Rob Reiner, would have to restrain
(36:11):
him during these tantrums, and that those tantrums really progressed
into adulthood.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Doctor Bethany Marshall. Just because Nick Reiner has been booked
into Twin Towers, that means nothing to me. Other people,
other celebrities have been there Cosby, Bill Cosby, OJ Simpson,
Al Capone, Ted Bundy, Birdman of Alcatraz, Bernie Madoff who
(36:37):
worked the world's largest Ponzi scheme. He certainly wasn't crazy.
He was brilliant, evil, but brilliant, and many many others.
How Debey is extrapolating because he went to Twin Towers
must mean he's on a psychiatric hold. That doesn't make sense.
What do you think is happening, Doctor Bethany?
Speaker 10 (36:58):
Another tantrum, another tantrum out of an abundance of caution.
They're going to make sure he doesn't want to harden
himself or other people. But he's not a risk there.
What I'm going to say is when you diagnose people,
you can diagnose them on five axes. Access one is
mental disorders. Access to is personality disorders. They're treating him
(37:19):
like he has a mental disorder, but this, Nancy, this
is personality driven. He had tantrums from the time he
was very little. According to one report, when he was
eleven years old, he had such a huge tantrum that
his father had to put him in a big bear
hug and hold him to help him regulate down into
(37:43):
a normal state. Could it be that.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Nick Bethany is Bethany? Can I tell you something pleased
before you say one more word before we hear any more?
Made up theories from Philip Dubay, and he wins a
lot of cases on arguments just like this, the way
Paris Hilton, who has since become quite the hero on
various fronts and now is a married mom. Paris Hilton
(38:09):
was put in the Twin Towers after violating probation from
a dui. She was put there because she was quote claustrophobic,
all right, So all of Dubay spinning out his theories
that's not supported by the facts we know tonight. He
(38:29):
just happened to be booked into Twin Towers. It's in
that jurisdiction, So that really means nothing to me probatively
at this juncture. But I do know he's hired a
very high profile lawyer, Alan Jackson.
Speaker 14 (38:44):
We'll be back day to day.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
The bailiff has indicated that the Sheriff's.
Speaker 13 (38:47):
Department will take it on a day, day by day basis,
and so hopefully we'll be kid tomorrow that you can.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Get a pear from our friends at Fox News Digital
Sidney Sumner. Who is paying for him?
Speaker 11 (39:00):
That is the million dollar question. I don't think his
siblings are footing the bill, and I don't know what
kind of funds he has access to that don't belong
to his parents. So it's very unclear where Alan Jackson
is going to get his paycheck from.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Two special guests joining us now Doctor Kendall Crown's renowned
chief medical examiner of Terrant County. That's fort Worth. He
is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine
at TCU, and he's the star of a hit view podcast,
Mayhem and the Morgue. But don't be filled by his
joviality on his podcast. He has conducted thousands and thousands
(39:40):
of autopsies, Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank you for being with us.
Doctor Crowns. There's a big difference in stab wounds and
the slicing of his parents' throats. What would the stab
wounds to the body, not the slicing of the throats
indicate to you.
Speaker 14 (40:00):
So stab wound is a wound that is actually long
longer than it or the wound itself is shorter than
it is deep. So as the knife enters into the skin,
it leaves a wound that is very small, but the
actual wound course is very deep. The wounds they're describing
on the rhiners is a slashing wound or in sized
(40:23):
wound that is longer than it is deep. So it's
kind of a shallow wound that hits multiple organs or
multiple vessels, but doesn't go very deep into the tissues.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Well, let me understand something, doctor Kendal Crowns. Even though
the slicing mess you just made doesn't have to be deep,
in fact, it can be quite shallow. That would likely
be the mortal wound. And why.
Speaker 14 (40:51):
So the vessels are the structures in your neck prouded
a jugular vein, you're trachea. They're all very close to
the surface, like millimeters or less than a quarter inch
below your skin. You have these vital structures. You hit
the crotted argery, it's going to start spurting blood out,
and it's going to be lots of blood coming out
(41:12):
in a very short period of time. You'll be dead
in minutes. If you just hit the jugular vein, it'll
start oozing heavily, and again you'll be dead in minutes.
You cut the cut the trachia, you're going to have
trouble breathing. And when you cut the trachia, you'll also
cut blood vessels. You'll get blood into your trachea. So
when you're dying, you're sucking in blood and you're basically
(41:33):
drowning in your own blood as you're bleeding to death.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Doctor Kennel Crowns, we know that when their daughter Roamy
arrived and called authorities. The fire department arrived and they
stated that the rhiners were already in full rigor. That
tells me at approximate time of death. Could you explain so?
Speaker 14 (41:54):
Rigor mortis is the stiffening of the joints that occurs
after you die. And what happened is your muscles continue
to use these the things they use fro metabolism even
after you die, and when they run out of these substances,
they go into full contraction. And this can start occurring
in about a half hour to an hour after death
(42:17):
and gets to a maximum about twelve hours, so it
starts in the small muscles first and then goes to
the larger muscles throughout your body. So if you see
full rigor, it could be about twelve hours, but it
can be affected by activity, drug use, how much blood
loss you've had, a number of other factors, how warm
it is in the house, So using it as an
(42:38):
exact time frame for the post wornum interval is difficult.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 12 (42:54):
Round.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Isn't it true that after a period of hours when
someone is in rigor, the rigor breaks and their the
deceased limbs become limber again.
Speaker 14 (43:06):
Yes, after the twelve hour interval. After the twelve hour
interval of its setting up, you'll stay in full rigor
for about ten to twelve hours, and after that it
starts to subside and disappears over another twelve hours unless
someone moves it and breaks the rigor up manually, and
then it goes away completely. So you have about a
(43:28):
twenty four hour window of full rigor before it disappears.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Okay, is it twelve hours or twenty four hours?
Speaker 14 (43:34):
So twelve hours is set up ten to twelve hours
after it sets up, where it stays in place, and
then after that it begins to subside over another twelve hours.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Okay, Dodger Kendall Crowns, what type of defensive wounds would
you have expected to be found on the shell and
Rob Reiner's bodies. We've heard nothing about defensive wounds such
as blocking with the hands, the arms, even curling up
in a fatal position and getting defensive wounds on the
knees or the legs. I've heard nothing about that. I've
(44:06):
only heard about stabs we believe to the torso.
Speaker 14 (44:11):
So since they were in bed and may have been
in sleep, they could have not even seen this coming
and not had an opportunity to react. Since there's two individuals,
at least one individual probably was awoken by the other
individual being killed and may have had a chance to
defend themselves. They usually defensive wounds is what you see
as the individual trying to grab the knife and trying
(44:33):
not to be stabbed, and you'll see slices or in
sized wounds across the fingers, across the palm of the hand,
and then you'll see also in size wounds or stab
wounds of the forearms as they're trying to block the
block the knife of themselves. And again, like you said,
you may pull up your legs even and you'll see
stab wounds or in size wounds on the legs and feet.
Speaker 10 (44:55):
Do we all just.
Speaker 16 (44:56):
Forget that Rob Rider was on this list?
Speaker 3 (44:58):
Or what now he's dead?
Speaker 2 (45:01):
What the zany conspiracy theories have already started? Sidney Summer,
a Crime Stories investigative reporter, I don't recall Rob Reiner's
name being on the Epstein list, by the way. That's
from at Hunter Montross on TikTok.
Speaker 11 (45:14):
Said, Well, the list that that user is standing in
front of is not real. That is a faith list
that has been circulating on social media, and Rob Reiner's
name is on that faith list and circled. But there's
no actual evidence supporting that he had any types to
Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
So sorry, Hunter, your zany conspiracy theory doesn't hold water.
Rob Reiner was not on the Epstein list for Pete's sake,
but there's no lack of theories. Maybe Philip Dubay can
use these as the defense listen.
Speaker 5 (45:47):
Rob had been working on a series called The Spy
and the Asset. The series was going to be about
Putin and Donald Trump their upbringings, different ways they intersected,
and in Rob's words, what happens to democracy as a
result of this convergence, that relationship of Trump and Putin
being explored and extrapolated and navigated is going to bring
(46:07):
a whole lot of corruption up to the surface.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Right that? From at Studio A eight on TikTok to
Scott Iiker joining us, who was a founding member of
the FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team, Scott, I think I'd
rather rely not on zany conspiracy theories. I will leave
that to our veterman trial lawyer, Phillip Dbay. Scott, I'd
(46:30):
rather deal with hard facts. How difficult is it going
to be for me to trace Nick Reiner's cell phone,
where he went that night, any credit card or atm
use and what was it for? I need to track
(46:50):
not only his phone, but where there was a delay.
Even in the Alex Murdog case where Murdoch murdered his
wife Maggie and son Paul as he left the scene,
I got from his well. Prosecutor Waters got from his
nav system where he slowed down and the nav system
showed Scott Iiker him lowering the passenger side window electronically
(47:15):
that's where he threw out Maggie's cell phone. Then he
let the window up, sped up and went and hit
out at his mother's house, who had dementia and really
could not say what time he got there. That said,
that's what I'm looking for. You know, this guy didn't
think deeply enough to turn his phone on airplane mode
(47:36):
or turn it off when he discarded of the knife.
So how am I going to find the knife?
Speaker 16 (47:43):
It sure does look like a crime of passion in
those instances. A lot of times the suspects do not
turn off the phones, don't think ahead like that. Once
you get the identified, identifying information about the suspect, phone records,
(48:04):
vehicle records, credit cards. Is really interesting how you can
put a timeline together and kind of piece together all
the things that happened before and after the crime.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Hey, Scott Iiker, you and I have both marveled at
the video montage put together by l E law enforcement
in the Photusdulo's case. They got him every which way
but loose on video from ring doorbell cams to stop
like cam. This is after his wife, Jennifer, the mother
(48:36):
of his five children, was murdered. I'm thinking that this
neighborhood is blanketed in ring doorbell and stop like cam
you name it. I bet they can follow him almost
everywhere he went. And if he took an uber or
share a right share, there may be video in there
that can help me track him and find the knife.
(49:00):
That said, here's another zany theory.
Speaker 5 (49:02):
Listen up, do bay Nick Reiner, who is allegedly the
murderer in this case, the son of Robin Michelle, who
killed both of his parents. Allegedly, his name did not
appear on Google trends really at all. Here's it in
the United States, the United States, Nick Reiner. Nothing nothing.
This is showing starting yesterday fourteenth, So that was the
(49:22):
United States. This is what happens when you look up
the exact same query and only changed the geolocation to
be tel Aviv instead of the United States. Nick Reiner,
tel Aviv nothing nothing nothing. Oh, look at that two
bumps a couple months ago, last month. Interesting, all of
a sudden bumps, I can from.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
S Studio A eight on TikTok so dobay. I guess
she's arguing you might want to take notes to put
this in with your drugs. Like hoastist theory that he
what is actually a spy. She's mentioning tel Aviv. I
don't know what that has to do with. Maybe he's
an avatar, maybe he's a good Maybe he doesn't even exist.
(50:02):
Then who's that sitting in the twin towers?
Speaker 9 (50:05):
I gotta tell you, I think it's genius because if
we're all honest, it forms the basis of the not
guilty by reason of insanity defense. If he truly thinks
that he's going to be beamed up by the Starship
Enterprise and he's got all kinds of wild imagining.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
Nobody said that. You said that, What else would it?
He just didn't have a Google profile, he had no
social media profile. The fact that we haven't, and now
you're claiming you've got another psychosis defense because he's not
a social media.
Speaker 9 (50:33):
No, not because of that.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
Okay, good, I'm happy you said that. I couldn't be
more happy. I hope you used that at trial, hey,
just to throw this into your crazy pot to Steve Listen.
Speaker 5 (50:45):
Donald Trump got on True Social and said this, which
is horrific and tonally and timeline wise to me, does
seem like a confession.
Speaker 7 (50:56):
He's listed motive right there.
Speaker 5 (50:58):
Means doesn't even need to be explained. And the funny
thing is he got on camera today and doubled down
on it again, specifically the part with Russia. He was like,
he's trying to look into this and dig all this
stuff up, and as you know, it's always the opposite
where like there's nothing weird there.
Speaker 7 (51:14):
It's just so blatantly obvious.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
At Studio eight on TikTok so dtor Bethany Marshall, I
don't think that's going to help Alan Jackson at this
juncture that Trump confess to a motive.
Speaker 10 (51:32):
No, it is not. I mean, conspiracy theorists take something
that is sort of benign. I hate to call domestic
combicide benign, but it does happen, and they try to
spin a whole theory out of it, to try to
make it a part of a predictable universe.
Speaker 11 (51:49):
But it's not.
Speaker 10 (51:49):
You know, people love to form patterns, and so conspiracy
theorists will try to form a pattern out of an
outlier like domestic homicide, and that's all this is that
they're just trying to form a pattern, Nancy.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
The investigation is ongoing right now. We are waiting for
Nick Reiner to appear in court. If you know anything
or think you know anything about the case, whether you
observed Reiner, observed him in the gas station, observed him
in a ride chair, anything, please help The LAPD dial
(52:28):
eight hundred two two two eight four seven seven repeat
eight hundred two two two eight four seven seven. Tonight
we remember an American hero investigator, Lewis Roller, Oklahoma District
Attorney's Office, killed in the line of duty after thirty
five years, leaving behind a wife turned widow in two children.
(52:50):
American hero investigator Lewis Roller. Nancy Gray signing off good
by friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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