Dr. Sanford Sherman and his wife of three decades, Aliza Sherman, are going through a contentious divorce from accusations of infidelity to money changing accounts. Aliza Sherman receives another blow when she learns her attorney is suspended and she needs to hire another attorney. Gregory Moore of the Stafford Law Company takes over her case, and Aliza notices red flags from the start. Moore does not prepare for each court appearance, and he continues to ask for continuances, until the judge finally says there will be no more continuances.
The day before their first day of trial, Attorney Gregory Moore texts Aliza Sherman to come to his downtown Cleveland office to discuss the case. Standing outside the Stafford Law Company in downtown Cleveland, Aliza Sherman tells Moore she is going back to wait in her car because it is too cold.
As Aliza Sherman walks back towards her car, she is confronted by a masked individual wearing dark clothing and gloves, the assailant circles behind Aliza then chases the 53-year-old and stabs her over 10 times. She is stabbed her face, neck, right ear, and eight times in her back. As the masked assailant leaves the scene, the mortally wounded nurse calls 911. A bystander also calls 911 and an ambulance gets Aliza to the hospital where she is pronounced dead from he injuries
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Jan Lash - Aliza’s Best Friend
- Derek Smith - Criminal Defense Attorney, Acquaintance of Greg Moore
- Dr. John Delatorre - Licensed Psychologist and Mediator [specializing in forensic psychology], Psychological consultant to Project Absents: a non-profit organization that searches for missing persons; X, IG, and TikTok: @drjohndelatorre
- Fil Waters - Former Homicide Detective for the Houston Police Department, President & CEO of Kindred Spirits Investigations & Security, Inc.
- Josh Lowe - Supervisory Deputy U.S. Marshal. Northern District of Ohio
- Dr. Kendall Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), NEW Podcast: "Mayhem in the Morgue" [launching soon], Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University)
- Tiffani Tucker - Anchor 19 News WOIO, Contributor to the Podcast “Dark Side of the Land” by 19 News, Facebook: @TiffaniTuckerTV, IG: @TiffaniTuckerNews
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
A shock twist when a mom seeking a divorce is
stabbed dead just outside her divorce lawyer's office the eve
of trial. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I
want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Cleveland, Ohio. Elisa Sherman is a dedicated nurse and loving
mom of four, working hard to provide for her kids
while managing a messy divorce from her husband Sandford. After
her first attorney is suspended while handling her case, Elisa
finds another promising lawyer from the firm to deal with
her divorce, Gregory Moore.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Who stabbed this young mother, a beloved nurse, dead on
the eve of her divorce. Again, I'm Nancy Grace, and
this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
Of course, as in so many cases, let's start with
the nine one one call right now.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Raymond rain down as back as I could, and did
nobody arrival near her.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
I don't help it, Timetime, that had no help, is
coming breathing normally.
Speaker 6 (01:10):
No, she got blood coming out of her mouth. It
doesn't look normal at all.
Speaker 7 (01:14):
Don't die, lady.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Please do not move a thigh, your thigh.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
They're coming to promise they wouldn't be okay.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
That from my friends at w O I O A
shocking turn of events in the last days as we
go to air tonight. But how does a young mom,
a beloved nurse at a clinic in Cleveland end up
stabbed dead on the side of the street. And let
me point out that this occurred on a Sunday afternoon.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Crime statistics show.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
It is very rare that a case like this occurs
on a Sunday afternoon in broad daylight, her life in
front of her. This mom had everything going for her.
Why was she selected? We have no sex assault, we
have no robbery.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Why her? Why does she bleed out on the sidewalk?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
It's straight out to doctor Kendall Crown's joining US Chief
Medical Examiner Terrence County. That's Fort Worth. Never a lack
of business there. He is esteemed lecturer at the Burnett
School of Medicine at TCU, and he is the star
of a hitting You podcast Mayhem and the more, Doctor
Crowns thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Did she ever have a chance?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Was there any way Eliza could have survived eleven stabs?
Speaker 7 (02:46):
Leased somewhere the stab wounds were at she had two
in the neck, probably eight in the back. No, she
probably could not have survived that. The net wounds alone
were probably fatal because usually when you're stabbed in the
neck at a little involt, your carotid artery in your
jugular vein. The fact that she has blood coming out
of her mouth either means her lungs have been compromised
(03:09):
by the stab wounds or the stab wounds to the
necks communicated into her windpiper trachia, and she is bleeding
directly into that. She had no chance of survival.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Doctor Kendall Crowns, you, of course are a medical doctor
who have performed thousands and thousands of autopsies, but not
everyone knows what kartid jugular trachea means.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Could you explain?
Speaker 7 (03:32):
Sure, you have structures in your neck, the blood vessels
in your neck. The crotid artery is a branch off
of your A order, which is the biggest artery in
your body that comes directly off the heart. So the
krodadri actually is a pretty major blood vessel that leeds
quite profusely have cut. The jugular vein is actually the
venus return of the blood actually coming out of your brain.
(03:56):
So that's a big vein that goes back into the subject,
superior being a kela, which is the big vein going
into your heart. So these are two major blood vessels
in your neck that if they're hid, bleed quite profusely.
The trach is the windpipe or what you get oxygen
through you from your mouth to your lung, so again
another major structure. There's a lot of major structures sitting
(04:19):
there in your neck, and when you get stabbed there,
it can create a lot of problems.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Doctor Crown's would her trike or trachia have filled up
with blood.
Speaker 7 (04:27):
It's a possibility if the crotit or jugular are stabbed
and they're communicating directly into the trachea, it can fill
up with blood.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Joining me an all star panel to make sense of
what we know right now, you heard doctor Kiindle Crown's
weighing in. I want to go to a special guest,
Jan Lash, Eliza's best friend.
Speaker 5 (04:48):
Jan.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Thank you for being with us, and I know it's
very disturbing to relive what happened to Eliza at a
point in her life when everything was finally coming together.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
She's finally getting rid of that husband, who is like a.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Chain a cement block around her neck, cheating, stealing money.
And he's a doctor, for Pete's sake, you'd expect a
lot more from him, but he's a whole other can
of worms. It hurts me even now when I think
back on what happened to my fiance just before I
were wedding. Five shots to the neck, the back, the head,
(05:26):
the face. I don't like to think of it. I
only think of it when I absolutely have to. But
hearing doctor Kendall Crowns describe what happened to Elisa and
she's just going to her divorce lawyer right on a
Sunday afternoon. How many times did I trudge to the
courthouse on a Sunday afternoon to get ready for trial
(05:46):
on Monday. Countless? I can't count how many. And on
a Sunday afternoon, I wouldn't look behind my back or
worried about where I parked, because this Sunday afternoon, nobody's around.
It's a business district, right, What could have been safer, you.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Know, other than her hiding under her bed.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
But jan to hear doctor Kendall Crowns talk about the
jugular venus and the way that returns the blood from
the brain into the superior vena cava.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
All the blood pomping from her a order.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
It's like a water sprinkler that spurts on your front yard. Bam, bam, bam,
the blood potentially pouring into her trachea. And you hear
the guy on the nine to one one call Jan.
She says, she's got blood coming out of her mouth. No,
it doesn't look normal at all. Have you allowed yourself
(06:49):
to think about what she endured on that sidewalk, bleeding
out in broad daylight.
Speaker 8 (06:57):
It breaks my heart to know that she was she
was sought after to murder, and she was alone except
for Kenny, who had found her. It just didn't make sense.
I had spoken with.
Speaker 9 (07:14):
Her earlier and she kept telling me that times were
changing and to meet, And so we spoke and she said,
I'm going downtown to meet My attorney has changed his
time so many times on me. But I have to
be there, and I didn't want her to go down
(07:35):
by yourself.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
She wanted this divorce. She wanted this divorce.
Speaker 10 (07:42):
She waited.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, I mean, it's.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Such a dirt bag, but you know, you'd think it
seemed like the perfect family on the outside.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Listen.
Speaker 11 (07:54):
Doctor Sandford Sherman is an optalmologist and his wife, Elisa,
is a beloved nurse with the Cleveland Clinic. Living in
nutscale Beechwood, Ohio and married for nearly thirty years. The
couple has raised four children, four.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Children they've raised together. He is a doctrine ophthalmologist. They
live in a really ritzy area in Beechwood, Ohio. Married
nearly thirty years. Whoa, but of course looks are deceiving listen.
Speaker 11 (08:21):
In the last eleven years of their married life, Beechwood
police have been called to the Sherman's home twenty two
times for reports of domestic disturbances.
Speaker 12 (08:29):
The divorce of doctor Sandford Sherman and his wife of
three decades, Eliza Sherman, is going to be difficult with
accusations of infidelity and money changing accounts. Gregory Moore of
Stafford Law takes over her case.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Wow, okay, hold on just a moment. Difficult. That's certainly
putting perfume on the pig. The cheating, the stealing money,
and the stealing money went on after her murder up
to the tune of I know for a fact two
million dollars of back to Jan Lash. She wanted this
(09:02):
divorce and that makes me sad because this was her,
mister Wright, her dream guy. I mean, you know, she
caught the big one, right, A doctor, a beautiful home,
all that money, the four children.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
What could go wrong? Right Jan? Well? One would think
who Jan was? He having the affair with dad?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I don't know, infidelity, money changing accounts, joining me as
I said an all star panel. Now, in addition to
doctor Kendall Crown's and longtime best friend, Jan Lash, Tiffany
Tucker is joining us renowned anchor nineteen E Woo on
(09:46):
the story from the beginning, and you can hear her
starting on a podcast, dark Side of the Land by
nineteen News. Tiffany, thank you for being with us. Tell
me about the husband. Now, I'm just gonna to go
out on a limb and call them a dirt bag.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
But that's just me.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
What can you tell me what led to her going
downtown to see your divorce lawyer. I want to hear
about the husband and the divorce.
Speaker 13 (10:14):
Well, Nant, I can tell you that this murder happened
just a few blocks from the nineteen News studio on
a cold Sunday, As you mentioned, there were no sports
teams in town. What we've learned, as you just mentioned
that police were called to the home on numerous occasions
for some type of domestic dispute, Andford Sherman was well
(10:35):
known in the community, and Eliza wanted a divorce. She
wanted to start a new life. At the beginning, she
was looking at an apartment furniture, and this was her chance
to start a news and she raised her four children
and she was heading downtown.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
That's something I didn't know, you know, Tiffany, I've combed
over all these facts over and over. You're telling me
that she had on out and botany furniture. Me where
she was going to move?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Is that right?
Speaker 13 (11:04):
She was looking to do all that stuff. She was
ready to start a new life. She was ready to
start the next chapter of her life. She had been
married for thirty years and the marriage was multileus at times.
So that is why she was meeting with Gregory Moore
because the trial for her divorce was the next day,
the next Monday. But it didn't happen, as you know,
(11:25):
because she was brutally murdered to stab eleven times outside
Gregory Moole's office eleven times.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
I'm gonna have to go to.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
A shrink on that, Tiffany, But something you said just
struck a chord.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
With me, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Let me go to a colleague, a lawyer who has
represented so many defendants. Derek Smith is joining me, veteran
trial lawyer who actually knows the divorce lawyer in this case.
And you can find Derek at d W. Smith Legal Died. Derek, Okay,
(12:02):
I'm not ready to fight with you right now. I
want to talk to you about something very poignant that
Tiffany Tucker just said. And maybe it won't strike you
that way, But in so many cases that I had, Derek,
there would be just one fact that would just choke
me up. And here's an example I often give, but
there's one in every case I prosecuted. My first carjack
(12:24):
murder case, the young man that was a victim was
standing outside of his he lived with his mom and dad,
standing outside of his house, had just gotten out of his.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Car, really proud of the car.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
And was shutting the door, and the purp pulls up
and shoots him dad to get his car. Oh that's
bad enough, But what chokes me up every time as
a neighbor heard the gunshot and ran out, saw the
victim lying in the front.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Driveway, and ran back into his house.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
And came out with a pillow and put it under
the victims head.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
As he bled out. You know, he may have already
been dead for all I know.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
He bled out much the way Eliza did, and that
poignant moment. It didn't even matter. It wasn't an element
of proof. But in this case, the thought, as Tiffany
Tucker from WIO just told us, Eliza was excited about
going out and buying new furniture for her knee place.
(13:28):
You know a lot of people would want to live
in their lucks pad right their home.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Where they raised four children. She wanted to start over,
and she.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Was actually hopeful, Derek, hopeful before she was stabbed eleven
times in broad daylight.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Derek, I mean, don't you find that poignant?
Speaker 14 (13:46):
Yeah, Nancy, I mean, this this case is terrible. I
remember when this first broke, I mean, it went across
the legal community. Everybody, you know, was curious about what
was going on. You know, us as attorneys, when we
have clients that we represent, you know, we tend to
build relationships with them too, and we want to protect them.
We want to do what we can for them to
help them. Obviously, divorces can be tumultuous, can be a
(14:09):
very trying experience for the people involved in them, and
then the lawyers as well when they get involved.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Jan lash with me. This is Eliza's best friend.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Were you aware that police had been called to their
Ritzie home at least twenty two times for domestic violence?
Speaker 8 (14:27):
I knew some of the times, but not all of the.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Times, you know to doctor John Delatory joining me, Licensed
psychologists and mediator specializing in forensic psychology, Doctor Delatory, I've
wondered about this ever since I started working at the
Battered Women's Centers a volunteer many years ago. Why women
keep abuse a secret? I think part of it is
(14:51):
they want to keep it secret from themselves. They don't
want to admit that the fairy tale isn't true.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
You know, you work so hard for this.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Happy high the children, the Christmas tree, the front yard,
the grass, the school, the this, the that, the soccer,
and when you throw in domestic violence, it kind of
ruins the whole thing. So the thing you've been thinking about,
maybe in the back of your mind, your whole life
(15:20):
isn't real. And I don't think victims want to confront.
Speaker 15 (15:25):
That, No, they really don't.
Speaker 16 (15:26):
I mean, it also goes to what they think about themselves, right,
But that's the.
Speaker 17 (15:31):
That's that's the deceptive part that's happening because the abuser
wants the abusee to think that, right. That's that's the
inherent insidious nature of a domestic violence situation in intimate
partners to violence relationship, which is the abuser.
Speaker 16 (15:50):
Is doing everything they can to coerce the victim into
believing that this and that everything is okay. And it
takes so long for a victim to finally get the
necessary resources, the economic resources, the courage right the find
everything that they need as a support system to actually
finally break out of this, and oftentimes the victims in
(16:14):
an intimate partner relationship do not survive. They do not
live to see themselves in the happy life that they
absolutely deserve.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
I'm at work right now, he dreaming. I ran down
back I could and did nobody around with me.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
Her gone to get it and help it. Time it
no help of coming, breathing harm of me.
Speaker 6 (16:34):
No, she's got blood coming out of her mouth. It
doesn't look normal.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
At all from WIO and podcasts The Dark Side of
the Land.
Speaker 11 (16:43):
Attorney Moore text Elisa Sherman at two thirty PM asking
her to come to his downtown Cleveland office to meet
at four thirty to discuss the case. At three point
fifty four pm, Alisa Sherman texts More saying she's leaving
for the meeting. It would be there by four to thirty.
More response to the text with one that says take
time closer to five. Outside Stafford Law Company, Alisa tekes
(17:03):
More she's going to wait in her car. As Elisa
walks toward her car, she is confronted by a masked
individual wearing dark clothes and gloves. The assailant circles behind Alisa,
then chases and stabs are over ten times in her face, neck, right, ear,
and eight times in her back. As the masked the
sailant leaves, the mortally wounded nurse calls nine one one.
(17:23):
A bystander also calls nine to one one, and an
ambulance gets Alsa to the hospital, where she's pronounced dead
from her injuries.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Who wanted Eliza dead, leaving behind four children to face
life without their mother. In addition to our All Star
panel you've already met. Joining me now, Phil Waters, former
homicide detective, Houston PD, President CEO of Kindred Spirits Investigations
and Security. Thank you for being with us, Phil, Just
(17:54):
these facts are not adding up. We've got no rate,
we've got no sex attime, we've got no grabbing her pocketbook,
we've got no carjacking.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I got nothing. I've got nothing. It's a random attack.
That's like a needle in a haystack.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Those are the worst cases to try to investigate, solve,
and prosecute because I mean, think about Coburger, right, Brian Coburger.
The defense is going to be able to argue he
didn't even know these people.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Why are you prosecuting him? It could have been anybody?
See what I mean. That's a problem. That is a problem.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
So with no sex attack, no robbery, no carjack, no mugging,
and in broad daylight. You know the reason I keep
saying in broad daylight because statistically crimes do not happen
out in the open in broad daylight, much less on
a Sunday. Think of those stats running through that big
brain of yours. No, this is completely all wrong.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Phil will tell.
Speaker 10 (19:00):
You that everything you just listed looking at those set
of facts in the eyes of a homicide cop.
Speaker 18 (19:06):
Tells me an awful lot about that scene.
Speaker 10 (19:10):
So if we have no sexual assault, we have no
signs of a robbery, then that's what is going to
indicate to me is that we have a targeted attack
and the use of a knife is a very personal
way to murder someone. You have to be up on them,
you have to be right in their face. And then
when you have multiple stab wounds, in this case over
(19:32):
ten stab wounds, that aligns itself with a more personal
involvement with the suspect.
Speaker 18 (19:41):
And the victim. So there's a lot really to glean
from the scene itself and the fact that it's happening,
as you've already stated, on a Sunday afternoon, there's nobody
around in the middle of the day.
Speaker 10 (19:57):
But I'll tell you what, that is the perfect scenario
for the person that committed this crime. So they planned
this thing out. That's what it's telling me. This was
a planned event. Fewer witnesses around, and the fact that
it's in broad daylight adds this nuance to it. That
this person dressed in black and you're doing all the
(20:19):
things to hide their identity. So there's a lot to
be gleaning from what if you just stated in terms
of the facts of this case.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Crime Stories with Nancy Gray, Tiffany Tucker with me soaking
in everything that fuel Water's homicide to take.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
We've just said anchor nineteen.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Is Woio been on the case from the beginning. And
also you can hear her starting on Dark Side of
the Land podcast, which is amazing by the way, Tiffany, Tiffany,
just tell me, because you walk this walk all the time,
I want to hear about the area. I want to
hear it's aroound a lot of other big buildings. Does
(21:05):
the place go deserted on the weekends, you know, like
downtown Atlanta and in some parts of Manhattan there's nobody there,
like in the Financial District and other places. Everybody's gone, right,
and then it comes back to life on Monday morning.
So what is that area like on a Sunday afternoon?
Speaker 13 (21:24):
So cold Sunday afternoon, and obviously there were no games,
the Guardians weren't playing, you know, the basketball teams weren't playing.
No one around Quyatt pretty much deserted. And then come
Monday morning things picked back up again. As I mentioned it,
was just a few blocks from the nineteen news studios.
(21:45):
So when we heard got a tip, one of our
reporters got a tip that something happened down the street.
Of course we sent our photographers out the door to
see what was going on, and that's when we saw
all the crime scene tape in those horrific, horrific images
of Eliza's shoes on the sidewalk and blood and everything else.
(22:06):
It was absolutely horrible.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
You know, I'm curious, Tiffany Tucker, he clearly walked past
this quite often. I'm sure the sidewalk saw cleaned up
and there's not a memorial or anything. Does everybody just
walk over it like nothing ever happened.
Speaker 13 (22:20):
You know, as a reporter, as an anchor, when you
cover stories and you often pass by the stories that
you covered, you remember. The family of Eliza Sherman has
kept this story in the forefront and every year on
the anniversary of her death, they have had a visual
at the time in which in the place in which
(22:40):
she was brutally stabbed. So people in this community often
thought about it. How many times they thought about it
as they walked by, I'm not sure, but being that
it was so close to our station. Every time I
drove by it, I thought about this case. There are
several cases as a reporter that really touch your heart
in an impactful way. You always want justice for the
(23:02):
victims and the victims' families, But this particular story has stuck.
Speaker 18 (23:08):
In my mind for years.
Speaker 13 (23:10):
Fancy with all.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
The people that loved Eliza, least of all her four children, right,
And there's never a time like when I first had
the children. I thought, Oh, they need me desperately, Lord,
help me get through all these physical ailments, when Lucy
and almost died in childbirth, and let me help.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Raise and just just let me get them through the.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
First year, Lord, And then the second I'm like, oh,
my stars, they need me now more than ever. Now
they're about to graduate, I'm like, oh, my stars, they
need me now more than ever.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
There's never a good time to leave your children.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
And you hear Tiffany Tucker describing and jan Lash describing
how much she is loved, and then you think about
dirt bag Listen.
Speaker 12 (23:54):
After the murder of his wife, doctor Sandford Sherman moves
to Florida.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
He refuses to speak to police.
Speaker 12 (24:00):
His daughter, Jennifer has been doing her own investigation and
files a suit against her father for conversion for each
of fiduciary duty on Justin Richmond Remedy for criminal acts.
The suit by Jennifer Sherman, the daughter of Eliza, and
against her father, Sandford Sherman, alleges during the divorce cases
discovery process, forensic accounting showed a Merrill Lynch financial account
(24:20):
in Eliza's name only was secretly opened by Sandford Sherman.
He allegedly made more than two million dollars in deposits
into the account. Sherman forged a durable power of attorney
which allowed him to withdraw funds from the account in
the following six years. The account was emptied.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Wait am in it two million dollars?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
The husband moved her money jan last, did Eliza have
any idea her husband was not only dating a stripper,
but that he was stealing the money, the life savings.
Speaker 8 (24:58):
I believe she knew that things were things were hidden.
She just had a thought that things were hidden from
her and all she wanted was to get a divorce
and get what her heart of What would she owed
(25:18):
for all those years?
Speaker 12 (25:20):
Doctor Sherman admitting to an extramarital affair a defamation lawsuit
involving an exotic dancer and a conversation where Sandford solicited
advice from a friend on how to commit the perfect murder,
where the friend suggests not using his own car, wearing
black from head to toe with gloves and head mask.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
What, okay, stop everything, So let me understand. The husband,
the doctor is what dating an exotic dancer. I'm sure
she did not get her creative dancing degree at Julliard.
(25:59):
So he's dated an exotic dancer translation stripper, And let
me understand what I just heard. We find out that
he asked his friend about how to commit the perfect
murder and the friend tells him to wear all black,
(26:20):
wear a mask and gloves.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
To Derek Smith, veteran trial lawyer, criminal defense attorney who's
no stranger to a domestic dispute case, Derek Smith is
the husband that stupid, He actually said those words.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Why doesn't he just take out a billboard on Third Avenue?
I did it.
Speaker 14 (26:43):
Well, that's one way to go about it, Nancy. But
as you know, it's not circumstances. It's not what you
think may or.
Speaker 11 (26:49):
May not happen.
Speaker 14 (26:50):
It's what you can prove and just him, you know,
exercising his curiosity, looking online to see certain things. I mean,
the vorses can get, can get very toxic, can get
for us rating, and your fantasies can get the best
of you. You start looking online and indulging these things,
it doesn't mean you're actually going to put it into
practice and go.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Ahead in toxic doubt.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Your indulging yourself, planning your wife's murder and what you're
going to wear to the affair while you're dating a
stripper and stealing money.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
I think that's a little more.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Than just indulging his fantasies. And then he kicks it
off and dies.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Listen.
Speaker 11 (27:28):
Doctor Sanford Sherman passed away in Florida, having moved there
shortly after his wife's murder. Sherman never cooperated with the
investigation into the death of his wife, Elisa, but the
Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation continues.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
The cold case.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Murder of Alisa Sherman is not forgotten by the Cleveland Police,
as they have handled the investigation from the start, but
in an effort to get another set of investigators to
give the case a look, the case is turned over
to the Ohio Bureau of criminal Investigation. The BCI reinvestigates
every aspect of the unsolved homicide, and the investigation in
Elisa Sherman's death is active and ongoing.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
So now, just to complicate everything, the husband kicks the
bucket and he never cooperated. He stole money, he dated
his tripper, He planned what to wear to the perfect murder,
right down to a t, and then dies before investigators
ever get anything out of Emmy lawyers up and clams up,
(28:25):
but then a lucky break.
Speaker 11 (28:27):
Investigators get a lucky break when nearby surveillance footage is
found of the assailant dressed just as discussed by Ellie's husband,
doctor Samford Sherman, wearing black from head to toe, a
face mask and gloves. In fact, the disguise is so
complete cops can't make an idea of the killer.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Oh my stars to fuel Waters joining me, Former homicide
detective Houston PD President CEO Kindred Spirits Investigations. Phil, I
actually had a case where I had sails video and
even I, who really wanted to id the defendant, could
not make a visual idea. It was a bank robbery, right,
(29:05):
he has such a disguise. I couldn't even identify him.
Lucky for me, he was slew footed, walk like a duck,
and then he was stupid enough to take the stand
and walk like a duck right up to the witness stand.
I was so happy, twelve jurors, twenty four eyeballs hung
over the rail and watched him walk conviction. But in
this case, look at the video, Phil, there's no way
(29:29):
to id this guy.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Nothing about him. He's not slew footed, he's not.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Short, he's not tall, and he's totally decked out in black.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
This was planned.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Have you ever had a case where you could not
id the defendant off surveillance video?
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Phil Waters?
Speaker 7 (29:47):
Oh?
Speaker 10 (29:48):
Yes, It is very frustrating for any detective that sees
sees the suspect, sees him there and can't put a
finger on them. You know this and again, but this
indicates the amount of planning that went into this attack. Now,
the only thing that I would look at this video
(30:08):
right that you might be able to derive from it
is the manner in which she's running.
Speaker 18 (30:14):
So then you would have to have a viable suspect.
Speaker 10 (30:18):
See if you can get them into a running mode
and make a comparison.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Good luck with that. In fact, on this one film.
It's a lot like the Missy Beavers case.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
I can't really tell if it's a man or a
woman problem. But then whoa, whoa whoa Wait, stop everything listen.
Speaker 12 (30:37):
Investigators tracing Lisa Sherman's activities for the day show. She
was in downtown Cleveland to meet with attorney More. At
three fifty seven pm, Sherman texts that she has left
and asks More, I left and will wait call me
when you get there. A Lisa missus a call from
More around four fifteen and texts him back, apologizing at
four nineteen, telling her attorney she will wait in her
(30:58):
car until she hears from Not hearing from More, Eliza
sends another text at five thirteen PM, asking if More
will be there soon.
Speaker 11 (31:07):
It's getting cold, she says. He replies at five point fifteen.
Speaker 7 (31:11):
Been here.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 11 (31:24):
They found a number of bomb threats called into area
courthouses that had one thing in common courthouses where Gregory
Moore was scheduled to represent a client. The lawyer for
Eliza Sherman placed three phone calls to the Cuyahoga County
Old Courthouse on July tenth, stating a bomb was set
to explode at eleven thirty am. Moore also called bomb
threats into the Jiaga County Courthouse and Lake County Courthouse.
(31:47):
In each case, Moore had a case scheduled before the
court on the day the threat was called in, causing
a delay in the case.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
To Tiffany Tucker joining us from wo Io, anchor nineteen
News explained to me her own divorce attorney had been
calling in bomb threats when he needed a continuance.
Speaker 13 (32:09):
Yeah, we reported that he would make these bomb threats
three to be more specific, because he wasn't prepared for
his case. He had a reputation of not being prepared.
So investigators saying, that's what he did. He called it
in so that he would have more time in those cases.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
So that's what Gregory Moore did. Investigator said, Derek Smith, you.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Know this guy, this is the guy that has been
calling in multiple bomb threats to multiple courthouses whenever he's
not ready.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
What I mean, you.
Speaker 14 (32:41):
Know, sometimes you can get a little overloaded with some
facts and some issues in a case, or with you know,
an abundance of clients. But to be to be that
unprepared to go to these lengths to kind of delay
court proceedings. Yeah, that's a little bit much. It's also,
I mean a bit of a stretch to shit to
that level where you're doing it multiple times. And now
(33:03):
I've seen those reports. I've heard those reports, and there's
definitely better ways to go about requesting continuance and authorizing
it through the court properly. However he thought of these instances,
he had to go to another degree on those matters.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
So we're developing a track record here, Derek.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
We're developing a track.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Record and the track record is whenever the lawyer, Greg
Moore is not ready to go forward with plenty of warning,
and he had already been paid one hundred thousand dollars
to handle this divorce for Elisa, one hundred grand.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
And he's not ready. There was no way I could get.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
In front of my judge and say, oh I'm not ready. No,
I would be held in contempt. So he would call
in bomb threats multiple times. Well, that was followed by
an intense police investigation. The divorce attorney that Eliza trusted
(34:03):
now wanted as a fugitive.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Joining me right now.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Josh Lao, Supervisory Deputy US Marshall, Northern District of Ohio
who actually apprehended Gregory Moore.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Josh Lao, thank you for being with us. Tell me
what happened. I assume he had fled the jurisdiction.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 19 (34:24):
So, on Friday May second, the Marshall Service was asked
to get involved in this investigation. The Ohio Bureau of
Criminal Investigation reached out to us.
Speaker 15 (34:33):
And I said that they had a fresh warrant for
Gregory Moore stemming from the incident from twenty thirteen.
Speaker 19 (34:41):
From there, we took over the apprehension responsibility for mister
More and we handled this similar to how.
Speaker 15 (34:47):
We handle most of our fugitives.
Speaker 19 (34:49):
We started digging into known addresses, family and padams of
life for it. Our initial information that we had developed
was that he had a residence in Sagamore Hills.
Speaker 15 (35:00):
Ohio, that he was saying that with his family on
that day on Friday.
Speaker 19 (35:05):
We started looking into that address and we actually discovered
that mister Moore and his family were not home.
Speaker 15 (35:11):
There was a little out of the norm for them,
and so then we.
Speaker 19 (35:14):
Started digging into other avenues investigatively, and we had figured
out that mister Moore had actually gotten on a flight
that morning uh, and he then.
Speaker 15 (35:24):
Traveled to Austin, Texas. So our first thought was why Texas.
Speaker 19 (35:28):
You know, why is he going to Texas as a
coincidence or is you know, is he is he trying
to flee? So we started digging into Texas with him
with his family, and we ended up figuring out that
he actually has family in near.
Speaker 15 (35:41):
The Austin, Texas area, a suburb of called round Rock.
Speaker 19 (35:45):
From there, we passed off our investigation to our counterparts
in Austin, Texas. Marshall Service does nationwide reach, and that's
what we did in the situation. We said to the
guys there and they were able to get eyes on
him and actually arrest him in a place in Austin, Texas,
the eight thousand block of corner would.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Drive what happened when you finally apprehended him.
Speaker 19 (36:09):
So there was no drama involved with the arrest, he complied.
I think he was caught off guard a little bit,
to be honest with Like I said, initially, we didn't
understand why he was in Texas. I genuinely believe that
it was a coincidence that he had left to go
see family that day.
Speaker 15 (36:26):
We have no indication put.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Him up Josh, Wow, Wait a minute, So he calls
in multiple bomb threats, He lies to police about where
he was at the time Eliza was getting stabbed in the.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Front of his law office.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Then we find out all the other evidence, the one
hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
That she had been paid, the fact that he had a.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Track record calling outrageous stunts when he wasn't ready to
go forward with a trial. And you think he was
gone as a coincidence.
Speaker 15 (37:08):
Well, like I said, we didn't know you You could
look at it either way.
Speaker 19 (37:12):
Either way, he wasn't in Ohio, where he'd been staying
consistently in that morning. He had fled or left, whatever
way you want to look at it. But he wasn't
in Ahile.
Speaker 15 (37:25):
And he was definitely in another state.
Speaker 19 (37:28):
But I guys were able to figure out where he
was at.
Speaker 6 (37:31):
Work right now.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
I heard her adreaming.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
I ran down the back as I could and did
nobody rubbing me her.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
Get it and help it time. It had no help.
It coming breathing normally.
Speaker 6 (37:43):
No, she's got blood coming out of her mouth. It
doesn't look normal at all.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
W o IO podcast Dark Side of the Land.
Speaker 11 (37:50):
In a secret indictment, former attorney for Eliza Sherman, Gregory Moore,
is charged with one count of aggravated murder, one count
of conspiracy, six counts of murder, and two counts of kidnapping.
More allegedly plotted for months to kidnap or attack Elisa Sherman,
all to prevent the divorce case from getting in front
of a judge. Having been warned there would not be
(38:10):
another continuance. Moore had used bomb threats to prevent other
cases from being heard. This time, it is alleged he
murdered his own client to prevent the case from going
to court.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Jane ash Joining me, Eliza's best friend for.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Many, many years.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
What was your reaction when you found out the husband,
the cheating husband, had nothing to do with her murder,
that it was her own divorce lawyer.
Speaker 8 (38:37):
I can only say that I'm relieved for her children.
It would be horrible to think that your father murdered
your mother.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
You're right to doctor John delatorre joining us, renowned psychologist,
to live with the thought your father murdered your mother. Basically, ever, money,
it's something you carry around the rest of your life.
But a lawyer, a divorce lawyer, your confidante murdering you,
(39:07):
stabbing you eleven times, as you heard doctor Kimdall Crown's described,
and the juggular in the crotd in the back because
he's not ready to go to trial.
Speaker 17 (39:18):
Yeah, your attorney is supposed to be your safe place, right.
Speaker 16 (39:23):
When the entire system is against you, when another person
is against you, when it's some business, whatever entity is
against you. Your attorney is supposed to be the place
where you can be safe. Their attorney is supposed to
be your zealous advocate against every enemy that you are facing.
He is the one person he or she, they, they
are the one person that you are supposed to be
(39:44):
able to count on that you can be your most
vulnerable with that, you can tell the truth and they
will listen and they will be on your side. To
have that the authority just just just shifted and corrupted,
and you put in a position where you trust someone
only for them so look.
Speaker 17 (40:00):
You in the eye as they stab you to death
is disturbing in a way.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
I can't imagine Tiffany Tucker joining me anchor nineteen e's
WIO what happens now, Tiffany.
Speaker 13 (40:13):
But what happens now is that fifty one year old
Gregory Moore right now is in a jail just outside
of Austin, Texas. He has scheduled May fourteenth to have
his extradition hearing. Then he is also scheduled to be
here in Cleveland, Ohio just a few days later May sixteenth.
Will he will answer to those ten counts that we
(40:34):
saw in that indictment, as you mentioned, aggravated murder, six
counts of murder, kidnapping, conspiracy.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
He will have his day in.
Speaker 13 (40:42):
Court, and we are told we will learn more information
about this case on that day, A case that is
really shaken at this community, a community who so very
much loved Lisa Sherman, the fertility nurse from Cleveland Clinic,
a nurse who was looking to start a new life,
looking to start brand new, looking to rid of all
(41:05):
the paths that she had dealt with in terms of
family and friends, saying that there were domestic violence issues
in the home. This was her way out. Of course,
Griggy Moore will have his day in court. Whether he
pleads guilty or not remains to be a mystery. We'll
find out shortly next week if in fact he is
found guilty of these charges. Nancy I'm told he could
(41:27):
get up to life in prison without a possibility approval.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Out to you, Attorney Gregory Moore. Ohio still has the
death penalty.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Although they rarely use it. So settling. It's going to
be a bumpy ride.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Nancy Gray signing off, goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
A shock twist when a mom seeking a divorce is
stabbed dead just outside her divorce lawyer's office the eve
of trial. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I
want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Cleveland, Ohio. Elisa Sherman is a dedicated nurse and loving
mom of four, working hard to provide for her kids
while managing a messy divorce from her husband Sandford. After
her first attorney is suspended while handling her case, Elisa
finds another promising lawyer from the firm to deal with
her divorce, Gregory Moore.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Who stabbed this young mother, a beloved nurse, dead on
the eve of her divorce. Again, I'm Nancy Grace, and
this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
Of course, as in so many cases, let's start with
the nine one one call right now.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Raymond rain down as back as I could, and did
nobody arrival near her.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
I don't help it, Timetime, that had no help, is
coming breathing normally.
Speaker 6 (01:10):
No, she got blood coming out of her mouth. It
doesn't look normal at all.
Speaker 7 (01:14):
Don't die, lady.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Please do not move a thigh, your thigh.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
They're coming to promise they wouldn't be okay.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
That from my friends at w O I O A
shocking turn of events in the last days as we
go to air tonight. But how does a young mom,
a beloved nurse at a clinic in Cleveland end up
stabbed dead on the side of the street. And let
me point out that this occurred on a Sunday afternoon.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Crime statistics show.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
It is very rare that a case like this occurs
on a Sunday afternoon in broad daylight, her life in
front of her. This mom had everything going for her.
Why was she selected? We have no sex assault, we
have no robbery.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Why her? Why does she bleed out on the sidewalk?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
It's straight out to doctor Kendall Crown's joining US Chief
Medical Examiner Terrence County. That's Fort Worth. Never a lack
of business there. He is esteemed lecturer at the Burnett
School of Medicine at TCU, and he is the star
of a hitting You podcast Mayhem and the more, Doctor
Crowns thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Did she ever have a chance?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Was there any way Eliza could have survived eleven stabs?
Speaker 7 (02:46):
Leased somewhere the stab wounds were at she had two
in the neck, probably eight in the back. No, she
probably could not have survived that. The net wounds alone
were probably fatal because usually when you're stabbed in the
neck at a little involt, your carotid artery in your
jugular vein. The fact that she has blood coming out
of her mouth either means her lungs have been compromised
(03:09):
by the stab wounds or the stab wounds to the
necks communicated into her windpiper trachia, and she is bleeding
directly into that. She had no chance of survival.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Doctor Kendall Crowns, you, of course are a medical doctor
who have performed thousands and thousands of autopsies, but not
everyone knows what kartid jugular trachea means.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Could you explain?
Speaker 7 (03:32):
Sure, you have structures in your neck, the blood vessels
in your neck. The crotid artery is a branch off
of your A order, which is the biggest artery in
your body that comes directly off the heart. So the
krodadri actually is a pretty major blood vessel that leeds
quite profusely have cut. The jugular vein is actually the
venus return of the blood actually coming out of your brain.
(03:56):
So that's a big vein that goes back into the subject,
superior being a kela, which is the big vein going
into your heart. So these are two major blood vessels
in your neck that if they're hid, bleed quite profusely.
The trach is the windpipe or what you get oxygen
through you from your mouth to your lung, so again
another major structure. There's a lot of major structures sitting
(04:19):
there in your neck, and when you get stabbed there,
it can create a lot of problems.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Doctor Crown's would her trike or trachia have filled up
with blood.
Speaker 7 (04:27):
It's a possibility if the crotit or jugular are stabbed
and they're communicating directly into the trachea, it can fill
up with blood.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Joining me an all star panel to make sense of
what we know right now, you heard doctor Kiindle Crown's
weighing in. I want to go to a special guest,
Jan Lash, Eliza's best friend.
Speaker 5 (04:48):
Jan.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Thank you for being with us, and I know it's
very disturbing to relive what happened to Eliza at a
point in her life when everything was finally coming together.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
She's finally getting rid of that husband, who is like a.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Chain a cement block around her neck, cheating, stealing money.
And he's a doctor, for Pete's sake, you'd expect a
lot more from him, but he's a whole other can
of worms. It hurts me even now when I think
back on what happened to my fiance just before I
were wedding. Five shots to the neck, the back, the head,
(05:26):
the face. I don't like to think of it. I
only think of it when I absolutely have to. But
hearing doctor Kendall Crowns describe what happened to Elisa and
she's just going to her divorce lawyer right on a
Sunday afternoon. How many times did I trudge to the
courthouse on a Sunday afternoon to get ready for trial
(05:46):
on Monday. Countless? I can't count how many. And on
a Sunday afternoon, I wouldn't look behind my back or
worried about where I parked, because this Sunday afternoon, nobody's around.
It's a business district, right, What could have been safer, you.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Know, other than her hiding under her bed.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
But jan to hear doctor Kendall Crowns talk about the
jugular venus and the way that returns the blood from
the brain into the superior vena cava.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
All the blood pomping from her a order.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
It's like a water sprinkler that spurts on your front yard. Bam, bam, bam,
the blood potentially pouring into her trachea. And you hear
the guy on the nine to one one call Jan.
She says, she's got blood coming out of her mouth. No,
it doesn't look normal at all. Have you allowed yourself
(06:49):
to think about what she endured on that sidewalk, bleeding
out in broad daylight.
Speaker 8 (06:57):
It breaks my heart to know that she was she
was sought after to murder, and she was alone except
for Kenny, who had found her. It just didn't make sense.
I had spoken with.
Speaker 9 (07:14):
Her earlier and she kept telling me that times were
changing and to meet, And so we spoke and she said,
I'm going downtown to meet My attorney has changed his
time so many times on me. But I have to
be there, and I didn't want her to go down
(07:35):
by yourself.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
She wanted this divorce. She wanted this divorce.
Speaker 10 (07:42):
She waited.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, I mean, it's.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Such a dirt bag, but you know, you'd think it
seemed like the perfect family on the outside.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Listen.
Speaker 11 (07:54):
Doctor Sandford Sherman is an optalmologist and his wife, Elisa,
is a beloved nurse with the Cleveland Clinic. Living in
nutscale Beechwood, Ohio and married for nearly thirty years. The
couple has raised four children, four.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Children they've raised together. He is a doctrine ophthalmologist. They
live in a really ritzy area in Beechwood, Ohio. Married
nearly thirty years. Whoa, but of course looks are deceiving listen.
Speaker 11 (08:21):
In the last eleven years of their married life, Beechwood
police have been called to the Sherman's home twenty two
times for reports of domestic disturbances.
Speaker 12 (08:29):
The divorce of doctor Sandford Sherman and his wife of
three decades, Eliza Sherman, is going to be difficult with
accusations of infidelity and money changing accounts. Gregory Moore of
Stafford Law takes over her case.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Wow, okay, hold on just a moment. Difficult. That's certainly
putting perfume on the pig. The cheating, the stealing money,
and the stealing money went on after her murder up
to the tune of I know for a fact two
million dollars of back to Jan Lash. She wanted this
(09:02):
divorce and that makes me sad because this was her,
mister Wright, her dream guy. I mean, you know, she
caught the big one, right, A doctor, a beautiful home,
all that money, the four children.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
What could go wrong? Right Jan? Well? One would think
who Jan was? He having the affair with dad?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I don't know, infidelity, money changing accounts, joining me as
I said an all star panel. Now, in addition to
doctor Kendall Crown's and longtime best friend, Jan Lash, Tiffany
Tucker is joining us renowned anchor nineteen E Woo on
(09:46):
the story from the beginning, and you can hear her
starting on a podcast, dark Side of the Land by
nineteen News. Tiffany, thank you for being with us. Tell
me about the husband. Now, I'm just gonna to go
out on a limb and call them a dirt bag.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
But that's just me.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
What can you tell me what led to her going
downtown to see your divorce lawyer. I want to hear
about the husband and the divorce.
Speaker 13 (10:14):
Well, Nant, I can tell you that this murder happened
just a few blocks from the nineteen News studio on
a cold Sunday, As you mentioned, there were no sports
teams in town. What we've learned, as you just mentioned
that police were called to the home on numerous occasions
for some type of domestic dispute, Andford Sherman was well
(10:35):
known in the community, and Eliza wanted a divorce. She
wanted to start a new life. At the beginning, she
was looking at an apartment furniture, and this was her chance
to start a news and she raised her four children
and she was heading downtown.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
That's something I didn't know, you know, Tiffany, I've combed
over all these facts over and over. You're telling me
that she had on out and botany furniture. Me where
she was going to move?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Is that right?
Speaker 13 (11:04):
She was looking to do all that stuff. She was
ready to start a new life. She was ready to
start the next chapter of her life. She had been
married for thirty years and the marriage was multileus at times.
So that is why she was meeting with Gregory Moore
because the trial for her divorce was the next day,
the next Monday. But it didn't happen, as you know,
(11:25):
because she was brutally murdered to stab eleven times outside
Gregory Moole's office eleven times.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
I'm gonna have to go to.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
A shrink on that, Tiffany, But something you said just
struck a chord.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
With me, you know.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Let me go to a colleague, a lawyer who has
represented so many defendants. Derek Smith is joining me, veteran
trial lawyer who actually knows the divorce lawyer in this case.
And you can find Derek at d W. Smith Legal Died. Derek, Okay,
(12:02):
I'm not ready to fight with you right now. I
want to talk to you about something very poignant that
Tiffany Tucker just said. And maybe it won't strike you
that way, But in so many cases that I had, Derek,
there would be just one fact that would just choke
me up. And here's an example I often give, but
there's one in every case I prosecuted. My first carjack
(12:24):
murder case, the young man that was a victim was
standing outside of his he lived with his mom and dad,
standing outside of his house, had just gotten out of his.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Car, really proud of the car.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
And was shutting the door, and the purp pulls up
and shoots him dad to get his car. Oh that's
bad enough, But what chokes me up every time as
a neighbor heard the gunshot and ran out, saw the
victim lying in the front.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Driveway, and ran back into his house.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
And came out with a pillow and put it under
the victims head.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
As he bled out. You know, he may have already
been dead for all I know.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
He bled out much the way Eliza did, and that
poignant moment. It didn't even matter. It wasn't an element
of proof. But in this case, the thought, as Tiffany
Tucker from WIO just told us, Eliza was excited about
going out and buying new furniture for her knee place.
(13:28):
You know a lot of people would want to live
in their lucks pad right their home.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Where they raised four children. She wanted to start over,
and she.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Was actually hopeful, Derek, hopeful before she was stabbed eleven
times in broad daylight.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Derek, I mean, don't you find that poignant?
Speaker 14 (13:46):
Yeah, Nancy, I mean, this this case is terrible. I
remember when this first broke, I mean, it went across
the legal community. Everybody, you know, was curious about what
was going on. You know, us as attorneys, when we
have clients that we represent, you know, we tend to
build relationships with them too, and we want to protect them.
We want to do what we can for them to
help them. Obviously, divorces can be tumultuous, can be a
(14:09):
very trying experience for the people involved in them, and
then the lawyers as well when they get involved.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Jan lash with me. This is Eliza's best friend.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Were you aware that police had been called to their
Ritzie home at least twenty two times for domestic violence?
Speaker 8 (14:27):
I knew some of the times, but not all of the.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Times, you know to doctor John Delatory joining me, Licensed
psychologists and mediator specializing in forensic psychology, Doctor Delatory, I've
wondered about this ever since I started working at the
Battered Women's Centers a volunteer many years ago. Why women
keep abuse a secret? I think part of it is
(14:51):
they want to keep it secret from themselves. They don't
want to admit that the fairy tale isn't true.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
You know, you work so hard for this.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Happy high the children, the Christmas tree, the front yard,
the grass, the school, the this, the that, the soccer,
and when you throw in domestic violence, it kind of
ruins the whole thing. So the thing you've been thinking about,
maybe in the back of your mind, your whole life
(15:20):
isn't real. And I don't think victims want to confront.
Speaker 15 (15:25):
That, No, they really don't.
Speaker 16 (15:26):
I mean, it also goes to what they think about themselves, right,
But that's the.
Speaker 17 (15:31):
That's that's the deceptive part that's happening because the abuser
wants the abusee to think that, right. That's that's the
inherent insidious nature of a domestic violence situation in intimate
partners to violence relationship, which is the abuser.
Speaker 16 (15:50):
Is doing everything they can to coerce the victim into
believing that this and that everything is okay. And it
takes so long for a victim to finally get the
necessary resources, the economic resources, the courage right the find
everything that they need as a support system to actually
finally break out of this, and oftentimes the victims in
(16:14):
an intimate partner relationship do not survive. They do not
live to see themselves in the happy life that they
absolutely deserve.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
I'm at work right now, he dreaming. I ran down
back I could and did nobody around with me.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
Her gone to get it and help it. Time it
no help of coming, breathing harm of me.
Speaker 6 (16:34):
No, she's got blood coming out of her mouth. It
doesn't look normal.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
At all from WIO and podcasts The Dark Side of
the Land.
Speaker 11 (16:43):
Attorney Moore text Elisa Sherman at two thirty PM asking
her to come to his downtown Cleveland office to meet
at four thirty to discuss the case. At three point
fifty four pm, Alisa Sherman texts More saying she's leaving
for the meeting. It would be there by four to thirty.
More response to the text with one that says take
time closer to five. Outside Stafford Law Company, Alisa tekes
(17:03):
More she's going to wait in her car. As Elisa
walks toward her car, she is confronted by a masked
individual wearing dark clothes and gloves. The assailant circles behind Alisa,
then chases and stabs are over ten times in her face, neck, right, ear,
and eight times in her back. As the masked the
sailant leaves, the mortally wounded nurse calls nine one one.
(17:23):
A bystander also calls nine to one one, and an
ambulance gets Alsa to the hospital, where she's pronounced dead
from her injuries.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Who wanted Eliza dead, leaving behind four children to face
life without their mother. In addition to our All Star
panel you've already met. Joining me now, Phil Waters, former
homicide detective, Houston PD, President CEO of Kindred Spirits Investigations
and Security. Thank you for being with us, Phil, Just
(17:54):
these facts are not adding up. We've got no rate,
we've got no sex attime, we've got no grabbing her pocketbook,
we've got no carjacking.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I got nothing. I've got nothing. It's a random attack.
That's like a needle in a haystack.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Those are the worst cases to try to investigate, solve,
and prosecute because I mean, think about Coburger, right, Brian Coburger.
The defense is going to be able to argue he
didn't even know these people.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Why are you prosecuting him? It could have been anybody?
See what I mean. That's a problem. That is a problem.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
So with no sex attack, no robbery, no carjack, no mugging,
and in broad daylight. You know the reason I keep
saying in broad daylight because statistically crimes do not happen
out in the open in broad daylight, much less on
a Sunday. Think of those stats running through that big
brain of yours. No, this is completely all wrong.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Phil will tell.
Speaker 10 (19:00):
You that everything you just listed looking at those set
of facts in the eyes of a homicide cop.
Speaker 18 (19:06):
Tells me an awful lot about that scene.
Speaker 10 (19:10):
So if we have no sexual assault, we have no
signs of a robbery, then that's what is going to
indicate to me is that we have a targeted attack
and the use of a knife is a very personal
way to murder someone. You have to be up on them,
you have to be right in their face. And then
when you have multiple stab wounds, in this case over
(19:32):
ten stab wounds, that aligns itself with a more personal
involvement with the suspect.
Speaker 18 (19:41):
And the victim. So there's a lot really to glean
from the scene itself and the fact that it's happening,
as you've already stated, on a Sunday afternoon, there's nobody
around in the middle of the day.
Speaker 10 (19:57):
But I'll tell you what, that is the perfect scenario
for the person that committed this crime. So they planned
this thing out. That's what it's telling me. This was
a planned event. Fewer witnesses around, and the fact that
it's in broad daylight adds this nuance to it. That
this person dressed in black and you're doing all the
(20:19):
things to hide their identity. So there's a lot to
be gleaning from what if you just stated in terms
of the facts of this case.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Crime Stories with Nancy Gray, Tiffany Tucker with me soaking
in everything that fuel Water's homicide to take.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
We've just said anchor nineteen.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Is Woio been on the case from the beginning. And
also you can hear her starting on Dark Side of
the Land podcast, which is amazing by the way, Tiffany, Tiffany,
just tell me, because you walk this walk all the time,
I want to hear about the area. I want to
hear it's aroound a lot of other big buildings. Does
(21:05):
the place go deserted on the weekends, you know, like
downtown Atlanta and in some parts of Manhattan there's nobody there,
like in the Financial District and other places. Everybody's gone, right,
and then it comes back to life on Monday morning.
So what is that area like on a Sunday afternoon?
Speaker 13 (21:24):
So cold Sunday afternoon, and obviously there were no games,
the Guardians weren't playing, you know, the basketball teams weren't playing.
No one around Quyatt pretty much deserted. And then come
Monday morning things picked back up again. As I mentioned it,
was just a few blocks from the nineteen news studios.
(21:45):
So when we heard got a tip, one of our
reporters got a tip that something happened down the street.
Of course we sent our photographers out the door to
see what was going on, and that's when we saw
all the crime scene tape in those horrific, horrific images
of Eliza's shoes on the sidewalk and blood and everything else.
(22:06):
It was absolutely horrible.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
You know, I'm curious, Tiffany Tucker, he clearly walked past
this quite often. I'm sure the sidewalk saw cleaned up
and there's not a memorial or anything. Does everybody just
walk over it like nothing ever happened.
Speaker 13 (22:20):
You know, as a reporter, as an anchor, when you
cover stories and you often pass by the stories that
you covered, you remember. The family of Eliza Sherman has
kept this story in the forefront and every year on
the anniversary of her death, they have had a visual
at the time in which in the place in which
(22:40):
she was brutally stabbed. So people in this community often
thought about it. How many times they thought about it
as they walked by, I'm not sure, but being that
it was so close to our station. Every time I
drove by it, I thought about this case. There are
several cases as a reporter that really touch your heart
in an impactful way. You always want justice for the
(23:02):
victims and the victims' families, But this particular story has stuck.
Speaker 18 (23:08):
In my mind for years.
Speaker 13 (23:10):
Fancy with all.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
The people that loved Eliza, least of all her four children, right,
And there's never a time like when I first had
the children. I thought, Oh, they need me desperately, Lord,
help me get through all these physical ailments, when Lucy
and almost died in childbirth, and let me help.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Raise and just just let me get them through the.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
First year, Lord, And then the second I'm like, oh,
my stars, they need me now more than ever. Now
they're about to graduate, I'm like, oh, my stars, they
need me now more than ever.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
There's never a good time to leave your children.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
And you hear Tiffany Tucker describing and jan Lash describing
how much she is loved, and then you think about
dirt bag Listen.
Speaker 12 (23:54):
After the murder of his wife, doctor Sandford Sherman moves
to Florida.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
He refuses to speak to police.
Speaker 12 (24:00):
His daughter, Jennifer has been doing her own investigation and
files a suit against her father for conversion for each
of fiduciary duty on Justin Richmond Remedy for criminal acts.
The suit by Jennifer Sherman, the daughter of Eliza, and
against her father, Sandford Sherman, alleges during the divorce cases
discovery process, forensic accounting showed a Merrill Lynch financial account
(24:20):
in Eliza's name only was secretly opened by Sandford Sherman.
He allegedly made more than two million dollars in deposits
into the account. Sherman forged a durable power of attorney
which allowed him to withdraw funds from the account in
the following six years. The account was emptied.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Wait am in it two million dollars?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
The husband moved her money jan last, did Eliza have
any idea her husband was not only dating a stripper,
but that he was stealing the money, the life savings.
Speaker 8 (24:58):
I believe she knew that things were things were hidden.
She just had a thought that things were hidden from
her and all she wanted was to get a divorce
and get what her heart of What would she owed
(25:18):
for all those years?
Speaker 12 (25:20):
Doctor Sherman admitting to an extramarital affair a defamation lawsuit
involving an exotic dancer and a conversation where Sandford solicited
advice from a friend on how to commit the perfect murder,
where the friend suggests not using his own car, wearing
black from head to toe with gloves and head mask.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
What, okay, stop everything, So let me understand. The husband,
the doctor is what dating an exotic dancer. I'm sure
she did not get her creative dancing degree at Julliard.
(25:59):
So he's dated an exotic dancer translation stripper, And let
me understand what I just heard. We find out that
he asked his friend about how to commit the perfect
murder and the friend tells him to wear all black,
(26:20):
wear a mask and gloves.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
To Derek Smith, veteran trial lawyer, criminal defense attorney who's
no stranger to a domestic dispute case, Derek Smith is
the husband that stupid, He actually said those words.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Why doesn't he just take out a billboard on Third Avenue?
I did it.
Speaker 14 (26:43):
Well, that's one way to go about it, Nancy. But
as you know, it's not circumstances. It's not what you
think may or.
Speaker 11 (26:49):
May not happen.
Speaker 14 (26:50):
It's what you can prove and just him, you know,
exercising his curiosity, looking online to see certain things. I mean,
the vorses can get, can get very toxic, can get
for us rating, and your fantasies can get the best
of you. You start looking online and indulging these things,
it doesn't mean you're actually going to put it into
practice and go.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Ahead in toxic doubt.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Your indulging yourself, planning your wife's murder and what you're
going to wear to the affair while you're dating a
stripper and stealing money.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
I think that's a little more.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Than just indulging his fantasies. And then he kicks it
off and dies.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Listen.
Speaker 11 (27:28):
Doctor Sanford Sherman passed away in Florida, having moved there
shortly after his wife's murder. Sherman never cooperated with the
investigation into the death of his wife, Elisa, but the
Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation continues.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
The cold case.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Murder of Alisa Sherman is not forgotten by the Cleveland Police,
as they have handled the investigation from the start, but
in an effort to get another set of investigators to
give the case a look, the case is turned over
to the Ohio Bureau of criminal Investigation. The BCI reinvestigates
every aspect of the unsolved homicide, and the investigation in
Elisa Sherman's death is active and ongoing.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
So now, just to complicate everything, the husband kicks the
bucket and he never cooperated. He stole money, he dated
his tripper, He planned what to wear to the perfect murder,
right down to a t, and then dies before investigators
ever get anything out of Emmy lawyers up and clams up,
(28:25):
but then a lucky break.
Speaker 11 (28:27):
Investigators get a lucky break when nearby surveillance footage is
found of the assailant dressed just as discussed by Ellie's husband,
doctor Samford Sherman, wearing black from head to toe, a
face mask and gloves. In fact, the disguise is so
complete cops can't make an idea of the killer.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Oh my stars to fuel Waters joining me, Former homicide
detective Houston PD President CEO Kindred Spirits Investigations. Phil, I
actually had a case where I had sails video and
even I, who really wanted to id the defendant, could
not make a visual idea. It was a bank robbery, right,
(29:05):
he has such a disguise. I couldn't even identify him.
Lucky for me, he was slew footed, walk like a duck,
and then he was stupid enough to take the stand
and walk like a duck right up to the witness stand.
I was so happy, twelve jurors, twenty four eyeballs hung
over the rail and watched him walk conviction. But in
this case, look at the video, Phil, there's no way
(29:29):
to id this guy.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Nothing about him. He's not slew footed, he's not.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Short, he's not tall, and he's totally decked out in black.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
This was planned.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Have you ever had a case where you could not
id the defendant off surveillance video?
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Phil Waters?
Speaker 7 (29:47):
Oh?
Speaker 10 (29:48):
Yes, It is very frustrating for any detective that sees
sees the suspect, sees him there and can't put a
finger on them. You know this and again, but this
indicates the amount of planning that went into this attack. Now,
the only thing that I would look at this video
(30:08):
right that you might be able to derive from it
is the manner in which she's running.
Speaker 18 (30:14):
So then you would have to have a viable suspect.
Speaker 10 (30:18):
See if you can get them into a running mode
and make a comparison.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Good luck with that. In fact, on this one film.
It's a lot like the Missy Beavers case.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
I can't really tell if it's a man or a
woman problem. But then whoa, whoa whoa Wait, stop everything listen.
Speaker 12 (30:37):
Investigators tracing Lisa Sherman's activities for the day show. She
was in downtown Cleveland to meet with attorney More. At
three fifty seven pm, Sherman texts that she has left
and asks More, I left and will wait call me
when you get there. A Lisa missus a call from
More around four fifteen and texts him back, apologizing at
four nineteen, telling her attorney she will wait in her
(30:58):
car until she hears from Not hearing from More, Eliza
sends another text at five thirteen PM, asking if More
will be there soon.
Speaker 11 (31:07):
It's getting cold, she says. He replies at five point fifteen.
Speaker 7 (31:11):
Been here.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 11 (31:24):
They found a number of bomb threats called into area
courthouses that had one thing in common courthouses where Gregory
Moore was scheduled to represent a client. The lawyer for
Eliza Sherman placed three phone calls to the Cuyahoga County
Old Courthouse on July tenth, stating a bomb was set
to explode at eleven thirty am. Moore also called bomb
threats into the Jiaga County Courthouse and Lake County Courthouse.
(31:47):
In each case, Moore had a case scheduled before the
court on the day the threat was called in, causing
a delay in the case.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
To Tiffany Tucker joining us from wo Io, anchor nineteen
News explained to me her own divorce attorney had been
calling in bomb threats when he needed a continuance.
Speaker 13 (32:09):
Yeah, we reported that he would make these bomb threats
three to be more specific, because he wasn't prepared for
his case. He had a reputation of not being prepared.
So investigators saying, that's what he did. He called it
in so that he would have more time in those cases.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
So that's what Gregory Moore did. Investigator said, Derek Smith, you.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Know this guy, this is the guy that has been
calling in multiple bomb threats to multiple courthouses whenever he's
not ready.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
What I mean, you.
Speaker 14 (32:41):
Know, sometimes you can get a little overloaded with some
facts and some issues in a case, or with you know,
an abundance of clients. But to be to be that
unprepared to go to these lengths to kind of delay
court proceedings. Yeah, that's a little bit much. It's also,
I mean a bit of a stretch to shit to
that level where you're doing it multiple times. And now
(33:03):
I've seen those reports. I've heard those reports, and there's
definitely better ways to go about requesting continuance and authorizing
it through the court properly. However he thought of these instances,
he had to go to another degree on those matters.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
So we're developing a track record here, Derek.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
We're developing a track.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Record and the track record is whenever the lawyer, Greg
Moore is not ready to go forward with plenty of warning,
and he had already been paid one hundred thousand dollars
to handle this divorce for Elisa, one hundred grand.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
And he's not ready. There was no way I could get.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
In front of my judge and say, oh I'm not ready. No,
I would be held in contempt. So he would call
in bomb threats multiple times. Well, that was followed by
an intense police investigation. The divorce attorney that Eliza trusted
(34:03):
now wanted as a fugitive.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Joining me right now.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Josh Lao, Supervisory Deputy US Marshall, Northern District of Ohio
who actually apprehended Gregory Moore.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Josh Lao, thank you for being with us. Tell me
what happened. I assume he had fled the jurisdiction.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 19 (34:24):
So, on Friday May second, the Marshall Service was asked
to get involved in this investigation. The Ohio Bureau of
Criminal Investigation reached out to us.
Speaker 15 (34:33):
And I said that they had a fresh warrant for
Gregory Moore stemming from the incident from twenty thirteen.
Speaker 19 (34:41):
From there, we took over the apprehension responsibility for mister
More and we handled this similar to how.
Speaker 15 (34:47):
We handle most of our fugitives.
Speaker 19 (34:49):
We started digging into known addresses, family and padams of
life for it. Our initial information that we had developed
was that he had a residence in Sagamore Hills.
Speaker 15 (35:00):
Ohio, that he was saying that with his family on
that day on Friday.
Speaker 19 (35:05):
We started looking into that address and we actually discovered
that mister Moore and his family were not home.
Speaker 15 (35:11):
There was a little out of the norm for them,
and so then we.
Speaker 19 (35:14):
Started digging into other avenues investigatively, and we had figured
out that mister Moore had actually gotten on a flight
that morning uh, and he then.
Speaker 15 (35:24):
Traveled to Austin, Texas. So our first thought was why Texas.
Speaker 19 (35:28):
You know, why is he going to Texas as a
coincidence or is you know, is he is he trying
to flee? So we started digging into Texas with him
with his family, and we ended up figuring out that
he actually has family in near.
Speaker 15 (35:41):
The Austin, Texas area, a suburb of called round Rock.
Speaker 19 (35:45):
From there, we passed off our investigation to our counterparts
in Austin, Texas. Marshall Service does nationwide reach, and that's
what we did in the situation. We said to the
guys there and they were able to get eyes on
him and actually arrest him in a place in Austin, Texas,
the eight thousand block of corner would.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Drive what happened when you finally apprehended him.
Speaker 19 (36:09):
So there was no drama involved with the arrest, he complied.
I think he was caught off guard a little bit,
to be honest with Like I said, initially, we didn't
understand why he was in Texas. I genuinely believe that
it was a coincidence that he had left to go
see family that day.
Speaker 15 (36:26):
We have no indication put.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Him up Josh, Wow, Wait a minute, So he calls
in multiple bomb threats, He lies to police about where
he was at the time Eliza was getting stabbed in the.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Front of his law office.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Then we find out all the other evidence, the one
hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
That she had been paid, the fact that he had a.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Track record calling outrageous stunts when he wasn't ready to
go forward with a trial. And you think he was
gone as a coincidence.
Speaker 15 (37:08):
Well, like I said, we didn't know you You could
look at it either way.
Speaker 19 (37:12):
Either way, he wasn't in Ohio, where he'd been staying
consistently in that morning. He had fled or left, whatever
way you want to look at it. But he wasn't
in Ahile.
Speaker 15 (37:25):
And he was definitely in another state.
Speaker 19 (37:28):
But I guys were able to figure out where he
was at.
Speaker 6 (37:31):
Work right now.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
I heard her adreaming.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
I ran down the back as I could and did
nobody rubbing me her.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
Get it and help it time. It had no help.
It coming breathing normally.
Speaker 6 (37:43):
No, she's got blood coming out of her mouth. It
doesn't look normal at all.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
W o IO podcast Dark Side of the Land.
Speaker 11 (37:50):
In a secret indictment, former attorney for Eliza Sherman, Gregory Moore,
is charged with one count of aggravated murder, one count
of conspiracy, six counts of murder, and two counts of kidnapping.
More allegedly plotted for months to kidnap or attack Elisa Sherman,
all to prevent the divorce case from getting in front
of a judge. Having been warned there would not be
(38:10):
another continuance. Moore had used bomb threats to prevent other
cases from being heard. This time, it is alleged he
murdered his own client to prevent the case from going
to court.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Jane ash Joining me, Eliza's best friend for.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Many, many years.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
What was your reaction when you found out the husband,
the cheating husband, had nothing to do with her murder,
that it was her own divorce lawyer.
Speaker 8 (38:37):
I can only say that I'm relieved for her children.
It would be horrible to think that your father murdered
your mother.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
You're right to doctor John delatorre joining us, renowned psychologist,
to live with the thought your father murdered your mother. Basically, ever, money,
it's something you carry around the rest of your life.
But a lawyer, a divorce lawyer, your confidante murdering you,
(39:07):
stabbing you eleven times, as you heard doctor Kimdall Crown's described,
and the juggular in the crotd in the back because
he's not ready to go to trial.
Speaker 17 (39:18):
Yeah, your attorney is supposed to be your safe place, right.
Speaker 16 (39:23):
When the entire system is against you, when another person
is against you, when it's some business, whatever entity is
against you. Your attorney is supposed to be the place
where you can be safe. Their attorney is supposed to
be your zealous advocate against every enemy that you are facing.
He is the one person he or she, they, they
are the one person that you are supposed to be
(39:44):
able to count on that you can be your most
vulnerable with that, you can tell the truth and they
will listen and they will be on your side. To
have that the authority just just just shifted and corrupted,
and you put in a position where you trust someone
only for them so look.
Speaker 17 (40:00):
You in the eye as they stab you to death
is disturbing in a way.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
I can't imagine Tiffany Tucker joining me anchor nineteen e's
WIO what happens now, Tiffany.
Speaker 13 (40:13):
But what happens now is that fifty one year old
Gregory Moore right now is in a jail just outside
of Austin, Texas. He has scheduled May fourteenth to have
his extradition hearing. Then he is also scheduled to be
here in Cleveland, Ohio just a few days later May sixteenth.
Will he will answer to those ten counts that we
(40:34):
saw in that indictment, as you mentioned, aggravated murder, six
counts of murder, kidnapping, conspiracy.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
He will have his day in.
Speaker 13 (40:42):
Court, and we are told we will learn more information
about this case on that day, A case that is
really shaken at this community, a community who so very
much loved Lisa Sherman, the fertility nurse from Cleveland Clinic,
a nurse who was looking to start a new life,
looking to start brand new, looking to rid of all
(41:05):
the paths that she had dealt with in terms of
family and friends, saying that there were domestic violence issues
in the home. This was her way out. Of course,
Griggy Moore will have his day in court. Whether he
pleads guilty or not remains to be a mystery. We'll
find out shortly next week if in fact he is
found guilty of these charges. Nancy I'm told he could
(41:27):
get up to life in prison without a possibility approval.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Out to you, Attorney Gregory Moore. Ohio still has the
death penalty.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Although they rarely use it. So settling. It's going to
be a bumpy ride.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Nancy Gray signing off, goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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