July 22, 2025 • 44 mins
Authorities say they received a 911 call around 10 p.m. Saturday from a father who claimed his daughter, Melina, may have been abducted near Exit 22 on I-87.
New York State Police said Melina and her father legally entered the U.S. on July 11 for a vacation from Canada. They were scheduled to return to Montreal on Sunday, July 20.
Melina lives in another state with her mother. Her father and mother have been estranged since 2019, police said. Surveillance video shows Melina with her father in Saratoga Springs around 5:30 p.m., and she spoke with her mother on the phone around 6:30 p.m.
On Sunday morning, authorities searched an area in the upstate town of Ticonderoga—near the Vermont border—where the father was believed to have been with Melina.
The motive remains under investigation, officials said. Police noted that the father has no criminal record or history of domestic violence. They also said the vacation included stops in Connecticut and New York City.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Jason Oshins - New York Defense Attorney
- Dr. Chloe Carmichael - Clinical Psychologist, Author: ‘Nervous Energy: Harness The Power of Your Anxiety;' X: @DrChloe, drchloe.com
- Dan Murphy-Former NYPD Detective-Sergeant, Joint Terrorism Task Force, Former Chief Security Officer, US Bancorp, Co-Host of "Gold Shields" Podcast, and Author: “Workplace Safety: Establishing an Effective Violence Prevention Program”
- Dr. Kendall Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), NEW Podcast --- launching on April 7th, Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University)
- Laura Gemmett - Reporter, WRGB CBS 6 Albany; Instagram and Facebook: @laura.gemmettcbs6
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A sickening twist after nine
year old Molina, a beautiful little girl vanishes on a
family vacation. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I
want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
A father daughter trip and see tragedy.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Nine year old little Molina on a family vacation when
dad stops for a travel break, she is abducted, and
tonight a disturbing and sickening twist in her disappearance. Joining
me an all star panel, but first straight out to
investigative reporter from WRGBCBS six Albany, Laura Jimmett is with us. Laura,
(00:49):
thank you for being with us. Where had the family,
the dad and the little girl been vacationing? Didn't they
stop at several beauty spots?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Well, Molina and her father did travel around to a
couple different destinations. They run a vacation together, some of
those locations being Connecticut, New York City, and right in
upstate New York in Lake George.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
And you know doctor Chloe Carmichael joining us in addition
to Laura Jamt, doctor Chloe's clinical psychologist and author of
Nervous Energy. You can find her at doctor Chloe. Doctor Chloe,
this was especially important to dad because he and the
mom I believe have been estrange since twenty nineteen and
(01:37):
mom has primary custody, but dad sees her quite often,
and this was their big bonding where they were going
to have dad and daughter time and that's really hard
to get when you have a busy family. I will
never forget when Lucy, my daughter was growing up, father
(01:59):
daughter dance was a huge big deal because they would
have a single night all together and that's actually hard
to come by when both parents are working. And with
these two was split custody. I mean, the mom has primary,
but the dad tries to see her all the time.
This was a big deal for the dad, Doctor Chloe.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Yes, it certainly was. And as you said, when you have,
you know, custody situations, it can be really hard to
get that time. At the same time, you know, those
can be times when emotions do tend to run really
high and things can feel intense. There can also be
a lot of image pressure, you know, for the dad
(02:42):
to try to broadcast to everybody, look, you know, we're
doing these really special things together. There can be a
lot of emotional intensity and a lot at stake during
those times as well.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
And there's also doctor Chloe Fomo Fomo fear of missing
out because when I take the Tines on a vacation,
I want everything to be great for them and make
all these memories right now up here. I know it
really doesn't matter what you do or where you go,
(03:13):
because when we were growing up, we would have Friday
and Saturday night in Gatlinburg, Tennessee. That was our vacation,
and then we would come home on Sunday. But I
remember it like I was on the riviera. For Pete's sake.
We had so much fun and everything about it was fun,
and that's the memory you want your child to have,
(03:35):
right So there is pressure if you're a loving parent
to make that happen. And that's what we see this
dad doing.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Yes, that's absolutely true, is that he seemed to want
to be creating an unforgettable lifetime experience type of trip
with his daughter. I would say that's true that there
was a lot of effort and planning that went into
orchestrating a very special trip.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Okay, guys, I want you to hear from Captain Robert McConnell.
Speaker 5 (04:05):
On Saturday, July nineteenth. At twenty twenty five, at a
practically ten o'clock PM, Warren County nine one one received
the call from a man reporting his nine year old
daughter missing with a possible abduction in the area of
VEX twenty two of Ieight seven Northway in Lake George.
The show was identified as Malina Frettoleen, age nine, and
(04:26):
the caller as her father, Luciana Frettoland, aged forty five.
The New York City Police and Warren County Sheriff's Office
immediately responded to the area of Exit twenty two in
Northway and initiate investigation and attempt to locate Molina.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
In addition to Laura Jimmett, investigative reporter WRGB CBS six
Albany now joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter Sydney Sumner, So, Sidney,
I'm trying to understand they went all to all of
these beauty spots, a beautiful waterside town in Connecticut. They
cut through Albany. I believe they spent time in New
(05:02):
York City, right, I mean, that's the whole vacation in itself,
New York City. He's showing her the sites. I'm sure
Times Square everything there is to see, now, where were
they Sydney when Dad stops for a bathroom break.
Speaker 6 (05:16):
Well, Nancy, they're heading north found on I eighty seven
and they're right at exit twenty two, which is Lake George.
So Dad decides he needs to go to the bathroom,
and he needs to go to the bathroom now. So
he pulled over. We use Molina in the backseat and
is like, look, I'm just going to go walk over
here in the woods for some privacy, relieve myself, and
(05:37):
we'll go back on our way.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
You know, it's giving me a horrible, horrible flashback to
a case that we covered Sydney. You and I and
Lauren Jamett, you're going to remember this because this is
in your neck of the woods. Where a little girl
is an upstate New York, same area. She's with her family.
There are ving and camping, and they're in the little
(06:00):
camping circle with other RVs and the mom is watching
the daughter go around and around with other children on
a bicycle loop right there right in front of them,
and a little girl goes down the hill to the
side of the bicycle loop and in that moment, literally
in that moment, she's abducted she's abducted just like that.
(06:27):
It can happen just like that. And I'm going to
go to special guests. Dan Murphy joining US former NYPD
detective sergeant who served on the Joint Terrorism Task Force,
former Chief Security Office, usban Court, and co host of
a hit podcast, gold Shields. He's also the author of
Workplace Safety. Dan, it can happen just like that, just
(06:50):
like that, And it's not because a parent isn't paying attention.
Of course, we all know, don't leave your child alone
in the car. But the dad says he was just
going to urinate on the side of the road, and
it happened just like that. But Dan, it can happen
just like that.
Speaker 7 (07:07):
Yes, it's ken. Kidnappings and abductions of children can happen.
People who do it do not just randomly jump out
of a car. Sometimes that happens, but in this case,
they look at their victims, they look and see where
the opportunity is, and they act very very quickly and decisively.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
You know, I was just talking about the case of
little Charlotte Cina. Charlotte was found alive, if you will recall,
and Laura, I'm sure you remember that Charlotte was found alive.
She was several miles away, and she was in the
purpse camper part behind his mother's home where he lived,
behind mommy's house, and she was crammed into a as
(07:47):
I recall, Jackie, correct me if I'm wrong, she was
crammed into a cabinet under a counter, in a camper
like an RV. And we've taken a lot of RV
trips the twins Dan, and it's how he got that
child crammed into that cabinet. I don't know what the
good news is. Charlotte lived and she was taken Dan,
(08:10):
just like what we're talking about. She lived, so regardless
of what may have happened in the interim, that's the
victory because she lived. Let me understand, Laura Jamette joining
us of your RGB, this was just a pit stop,
a five minute pit stop for a dad to maybe
a little bit longer to get out of the car,
go back behind the trees. You're an eate, come back
(08:34):
to the car and get in the car. It was
very quick, right, Laura.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Yes, that's correct, it was. It all happened extremely fast.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I'm trying to understand this area where he stopped for
the bathroom break. Was it in a rural area, I
mean Sidney Sumner. I know a little bit about Late George.
I know it's beautiful, but what can you tell me
Sidney about the area. Because terrain in this type of
case is very very important. You know, what if what
(09:05):
if and this doesn't happen that often a child gets
out of the car and starts walking. What if fill
in the blank, tell me about the terrain. Where is
Lake George? Where did they stop, Sydney for exactly did
they stop? Was it near a gas station? Was it
near a toll booth? What tell me?
Speaker 6 (09:24):
Well, Nancy, it's a little unclear exactly where they stopped,
if Dad actually pulled off the highway or if he
was just parked on the side of the road and
walked out into the forest. And this is a heavily
wooded area. They call this an old growth forest, so
lots of wooded area.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
The lake is huge.
Speaker 6 (09:46):
It goes a very very long way north and south
in both directions. This is a very popular vacation spot,
so there's lots of people who aren't necessarily local to
the area, especially this time beer And there's lots of
highways in this area. You get off into Route nine.
This is the North Way. This is a very large highway,
(10:09):
heavily traveled, big vacation spot. So, like you say, it's
easy to get anywhere in an hour from this spot
in particular.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Okay, you know what's disturbing about that with me a
longtime colleague, Jason Oceans. He's a veteran defense attorney who
works throughout this jurisdiction, all through New York, New Jersey,
the whole Tri state area and beyond. Jason Oceans, you
and I worked on the Dylan and Shasta Grone case
(10:41):
and that was in Cordalaine, Idaho. Now why am I
bringing that up? You just heard both Laura Jimmett and
Cidy Summer talk about this isolated area. Okay, Dad is
taking his daughter all across the New York Connecticut area,
which with which you're very familiar to the site in
the sounds of New York City, to the waterside in Connecticut,
(11:04):
and now in the adroind Dyck region of Lake George, Cordalaane, Idaho.
Sidney just said, there are a lot of interstates and
roads leading to this particular beauty spot, and it is
beautiful that much I know Cordalaine, Idaho. A guy the
perp was driving along looks off the interstate, and if
(11:28):
you look at the aerial view, as you and I
did together on a very dark studio one day, I
recall it distinctly. You look down and there's nothing but trees,
green trees. You can't see a single house. Nothing. The
purp drives by on the interstate, looks over and sees Shasta.
Gronie thinks she's about eleven or twelve at the time,
(11:48):
on getting into an above ground pool, and this guy,
unknown to the family pulls over, lies in wait, waits
for the family to go to bed, wipes out the
family and abducts the little girl and boy Dylan and shastagrown.
So the fact that all these roads converge in this area,
(12:10):
this beauty spot, this tourist spot, plus it's heavily heavily forested,
is like the Cordline case all over again. It's ideal Nancy,
as you describe it.
Speaker 8 (12:23):
It's that perfect set of circumstances in this case, as
we're talking about a potential abduction in upstate New York.
Speaker 7 (12:30):
About an hour north of Albany on the North Way.
Speaker 8 (12:33):
Yeah, it's as described it's forested, but so many little
access roads in and so many tourists, so many different
people from the community, that it is a recipe sometimes
for disaster and an abduction.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
And I've learned that Late George, I believe you visited there,
Jason Oceans, Late George is forty four square miles. I
don't know. I know you've handled cases and defended cases
where there was water search. That's never good when you
hear the words water search, never Nancy forty four square miles,
(13:07):
Dan Murphy, a water search exhaustive. If a water search
has to be conducted on forty four square miles, I'm
talking side scan and sonar, dive teams, water dogs, dogs
that can pick up a human scent and water. Yes,
it's real. That is an intense, intense search, Dan Murphy,
(13:31):
and tense.
Speaker 7 (13:32):
That's a tremendous amount of manpower that would take a
lot of hours a huge area to search. I don't
know how deep Lake Georgia's I've been there, but it
would require an unbelievable amount of time, energy, and effort
to search an area if you did not have exact
information or at least a tip as to where in
the lake. It could take weeks to drag a lake
(13:53):
like that.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
New York State beliefs have issued an Amber alert and
are desperately searching for a little girl who diss peered
from her father's car while traveling on Interstate eighty seven.
Molina Frattolan's father found her missing from the back seat
of their car after making a brief rest stop near
Exit twenty two. Nine year old Molina is five feet
tall one hundred pounds, has brown hair and brown eyes.
(14:17):
She was wearing light colored shorts, a black and white
striped T shirt, and black Adida sneakers. Anyone who may
have seen Molina should call nine one one immediately.
Speaker 9 (14:27):
Luciano Frattolan calls nine one one nine fifty eight pm
July nineteenth, frantically reporting he thinks his nine year old daughter, Molina,
has been kidnapped. Frattolan says he pulled over in near
Exit twenty two and walked into the woods to relieve himself.
When he returned, a white van was speeding away from
the shoulder and he found Molina missing from the back seat.
Rattolin doesn't remember seeing a license plate, but believes he
(14:49):
saw two men sitting in the front seat of the van.
New York State Police put out a BOLO in the
Lake George area and southbound on the Northway, but by morning,
Molina is still missing. An investigator's issue in ambrell, an.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Amber alert is issued, but they waited overnight to issue
the amber alert. Jason osens, how many times have we
seen a delay in issuing an amber alert? I'm just
thinking right off the top of my head to Cherish Periwinkle,
(15:21):
who was with her mother in a Target superstore and
they met a guy in there when they were shopping
with the little children, and he offered to go get
them hamburgers from the McDonald's inside the superstore upfront, and
they just kept walking and instead of issuing the amber
(15:41):
alert immediately as the mother rain begged, they kept suggesting
that this was somehow a custody problem, and they didn't
issue it. As soon as they did issue it, like
I don't know, twelve fifteen hours later, they got a
call that a white van had been seen. They went
to the white van and they found Cherish dead, submerged
(16:05):
in water under a log. Because of a delay in
issuing an amber alert, what is the problem with issuing
amber alerts on time?
Speaker 8 (16:18):
Nancy, that's a you know, that's a horrible spot that
law enforcement is in. Sometimes there are other circumstances, initially
in the investigation, as you mentioned, in this horrible circumstance,
and in other times they have reason to delay, there
are mistakes made, but the prudency sometimes leads to other things,
(16:40):
and oftentimes other times leads to deadly consequences.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
It's a very tough spot for detectives.
Speaker 8 (16:46):
In that moment because you and I both know that
twenty four to forty eight hours right after a loss
are in tegral.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I don't know why they don't just issue it better
safe than sorry, issue the Amber alert, and then if
it's un needed, then say hey, whereas that we've got
updated information, why sit on it? Although in their defense
to Laura Jeanette joining US investigative reporter WRGB CBS six
at Albany, Laura, the dad didn't get a tag number,
(17:16):
did he?
Speaker 6 (17:17):
Don't?
Speaker 3 (17:17):
I don't believe so.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
No, I don't think he did. Sidney Sumner, he couldn't
get a tag number, could he?
Speaker 6 (17:22):
No, there was no tag number. And Captain McConnell actually
commented on this during a press conference about the case
and said that they want to be careful not to
numb the public by putting out Amber alerts before being
sure of what's going on. So he did make that
comment in their defense about waiting for a little bit
(17:44):
more information, but ultimately they had nothing else to add
other than that white man.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Okay, well, I think that's bass Ackwards. But that said,
the dad gave a quasi description of the perps even
though he didn't have a tag number. You know, can
more concerned about numbing the public. To Amberlerts, I disagree
with that, but maybe there's more to the story than
we know. Let's hear from Captain Robert McConnell.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
On July eleventh, twenty twenty five. Mister Frattolean and Malina
and Molina expected to return on Sunday, July twentieth, at
which time Lena Bee would be returned to the costody
of her mother. At about five thirty pm on July twentieth,
Molina is observer with her father on video surveillance in
Saratoga Springs, New York. At about six thirty pm, she
spoke to her mother on the phone and told her
(18:31):
she and her father were a route back. Did child
appears to be in good health and to not indicate
she's under any dress.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Larja met joining us WRGB. The surveillance video at Saratoga
Springs that is from an unnamed business, Is that right.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yes, that's correct. The name of the business hasn't been
released at this time.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Now, that's about five thirty in the afternoon, five thirty
in the afternoon. At six point thirty, she speaks to
her mom on the phone and she says she and
her dad are back en route home and she was
in high spirits. Is that right, Laura Jaman, that's right.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
State police did say that while she was on the
phone with her mother, there was no signs of distress
and that they were just simply on their way home
from finishing up their vacation.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Laura Ja met WRGB. How long had the two been
traveling on their road trip.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
So they were traveling on this road trip from July
eleventh to the nineteenth, so eight days in total.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Eight days in total, very difficult for daddy. Finally gets
time with the daughter and then after he stops for
a pit stop, she disappears. Listen to Captain Robert McConnell.
Speaker 5 (19:42):
So the suspect's initial account is that he had pulled
over in the area of bax Of twenty two in
Lake George, pulled over to a parking lot to yearinate
is inditial reports. He steps away to a wood wooden area,
returns to the vehicle and at that point his child
has gone from the vehicle. He reports a suspicious white
van fleeing the scene southbound.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
The dreaded white van. How many times is it me,
Dan Murphy, former NYPD or is it always a white van?
I mean the story I just told you about Cherish
Peririweagle that was a white van. Why is it always
a white van?
Speaker 7 (20:17):
Yes, it does seem to be a white van a lot.
That was one of my first thoughts when I saw
the report as well, You've got to be kidding me.
How many white vans are there out there abducting children? Yeah,
that to me struck me as a little, a little
repetitive from many cases in the past.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Crime stories. With Nancy Grace, it was just a vacation,
a planned vacation. The whole family had been looking forward
to it. Listen, it was just a vacation.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
It was a planned vacation. They visited a couple locations
in Connecticut, as well as New York. They're most recently
in New York City. She had no concerns for dur City.
While she's with him, she knew that he was taking
here on the strip. The Warren County Sheriff's Office sent
every resource available to investigate this, right, it's inception same
with New York State Police. We had us in conjunction
(21:13):
with the law enforcement partners. We had aviation, drones, canine investigators,
uniform troopers. Every resource we had to bear we applied
in this investigation.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
When a nine year old little girl goes missing off
a family vacation, an amber alert is issued. An all
out searched by land by water ensues, but then a
disturbing detail emerges listen jering a subsequent interview.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
He then reports two unknown males forster into a white van.
Speaker 9 (21:48):
New York State Police suspects something isn't right when Luciano
Frattolin first says he saw a white van speeding away
from the shoulder, then claims he actually saw two men
dragging Molina into a white van.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Okay, let me understand what's happening to Sidney Sumner Crime
Story's investigative reporter. At first, Dad says, he leaves the
vehicle just for a pit stop to your innate on
the side of the road and gets back to the
car and sees a white van speeding off. Now I'm hearing,
(22:21):
he says, he spots two unknown males forcing his daughter
into a flite van. That is a subtle but very
critical different Sydney.
Speaker 6 (22:33):
Absolutely, it plays a huge part in police starting an investigation,
knowing where to look what's going on. So at first
he says, you know, maybe this van had something to
do with my daughter disappearing from the car. So he
thinks maybe my daughter has been kidnapped, and then he
changes his story to no, I watched her get kidnapped.
(22:56):
I was walking back to the car. I see people
dragging her from my car to this white band. I'm
running back up trying to stop them, but they speed
off before I can get there, so changes the story hugely.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Jason Otions is a veteran trial lawyer in this jurisdiction
where little Molina goes missing. Jason, you and I have
talked a lot about inconsistent statements, and I never have
a problem with a witness or a victim adding to
their statement. In fact, when they add to their statement.
I blame the questioner because I believe the questioner didn't
(23:33):
ask the right question to start with. You have to
change the question up. You have to come at it
from different angles to get every single fact. Adding to
a statement, I don't have a problem embellishing your statement. Good,
give me more facts. But when you change the statement,
I guess you're going to tell me that he really
didn't change his statement, because I think he did.
Speaker 8 (23:55):
No Nanty. I think in the critical analysis of what
we're talking about, it's essential for the investigator to possibly
ask eight questions to get that one handswer and bring
it out. I can cross and ask the same question
almost you multiple times, trying to elicit what I'm looking for.
Perhaps so an investigator operates the same way as you
(24:16):
and I do from a prosecutor side or a criminal
defense side. But your analysis of that is exactly right,
and that's seemingly the details that lead the police to
question the father.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Adding on to a statement, no problem changing a statement.
I mean, doctor Chloe Carmichael, to this day. To this day,
doctor Chloe, I recall the last moment I saw my
fiance Keith before he was murdered. He was leaving my
parents home, and he was driving away in a white vehic,
(24:48):
his white vehicle, and he lifted up his left arm
out of the car and waved over the car, and
I waved back. That's the last time I saw him.
I remember it at this moment exactly what happened. And
I have a really hard time with the fact that
the dad changed his story about the last moment he
(25:09):
saw his daughter. First, just when he gets out of
the car to go urinate, pisted up in the woods.
Now he actually sees her getting dragged into a white van.
Because that gives me a lot of questions. Dragged by
who did you say? Two men? Was she screaming? Did
they seem to know her? Did she know them? Were
they white? Were they Asian? Were they black? Did they
(25:30):
have facial hair? How tall were they? I mean a
lot of questions. Right, that's a big change, Doctor Chloe.
You can't remember the last moment you saw your daughter,
your nine year old little girl.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
No, of course, Nancy are absolutely right to omit such
an important fact. It just it boggles logic. So if
you're a father, your daughter is being dragged away by
two men, and yet you don't see fit two men
that when you initially speak to police. It's just it's
(26:04):
one of the most obvious points of information that a
father or any parent, or even just a casual bystander
would make sure to relay to the police. So yeah,
I would be very suspicious of that as well.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
And you know, doctor Chloe, very often we hear arguments that, well,
he was under a lot of stress. Okay, fine, we're
all under stress. But in that moment, you can't remember
the last time you see your daughter. I mean Dan
Murphy joining me, former NYPD star of Goldshields podcast. I
would be all over him like white on Rice when
he changed the last moment he sees his daughter. How
(26:42):
can you screw that up?
Speaker 7 (26:43):
You can't. You can't unless you're making something up or
unless you're thinking on the fly. Now, an individual like this,
you say he's under pressure and stress. That's believable. But
believe me, every legitimate victim I've seen who's had a
family member either abducted or seriously injured member is a
great deal of things about that moment, especially when immediately
confronted by law enforcement. In this case, you want to
(27:06):
tell them everything you know. He kept it very generic
at first, and it's as though he's thinking of the
story in his mind. I have to make something more up,
I have to add more to it.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Then A very disturbing update, A heartbreaking update from Captain McConnell.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
On Sunday, July twentieth, a search detail compris of officers
from multiple agencies conducted an organized search in the town
of taikonder Rogan, New York, in an area, an area
mister Frettonne was suspected of having visited. During that search detail,
at approximately ten to fifty members of the New York
State Police Forest Rangers located Molina, deceased in the shallow
(27:47):
portion of a pond.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Investigators are tight liped as to why, but the search
for Molina leads detectives to tykond Roga, about forty miles
north of where the little girl's father says she was
last seen and one of their stomps on their road trip.
Authorities aren't searching long before they announced a discovery at
one fifty pm. It's Molina, her body found hidden under
(28:10):
a log in the shallows of a pond. It's still
uncertain how Molina died, but it's clear she hadn't been
there very long, and someone tried to conceal her body
straight out.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
To investigative reporter WRGBCBS six Albany, Laura Jimmette, Laura again,
thank you for being with us. Explained to me how
her body was seemingly hidden.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
So when they went out to tech Honderoga and state
police also talked a little bit about how they knew
to go out there. This was through inconsistencies with the
father's story and just through different technology. So when they
were searching the wood, they came across a small pond,
a small body of water, and they stated how her
(28:55):
body was pressed under the log. So she was trying
to be con field, but it was clear that she
was under there.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
When you mentioned large met technology, obviously the phones were pinged.
Obviously phones were pined to put her in a certain area.
All of that is being investigated as we speak tonight,
but we do know her body was hidden. This little
(29:24):
nine year old girl, just scrubbed in sunshine, was forced
under a log much less like Cherish Periwinkle was. Now,
this is what I'm getting at to Dan Murphy, former
NYPD and star of gold Shields podcast, That is concealing
the body and when there is a random attack, a
(29:46):
random murder, let's just say a carjacking or a robbery,
a burglary, and the victim is home and so the
park kills them. Typically well overwhelmingly statistically, the purp doesn't
take time to stage the scene. They're out of there.
(30:11):
So I would say, almost universally, this means it was
someone that knows her that took the time to hide
her body. Right, Can you say it better than I did?
The staging of the scene that's trying to conceal the
body tells me it's not random.
Speaker 7 (30:31):
I agree with you, it's not random. And this kind
of situation, hiding the body like that is almost like
putting a blanket over someone when they get killed in
a home. It's an act of care. You don't want
to see the body. You either don't want to see
it yourself, or you don't want to see it harmed anymore.
In this case, out in the woods, maybe hiding it
under there's twofold one. It takes longer to find it,
so maybe it gives him more time to run. But secondly,
(30:53):
it gives whoever did this the opportunity to say, well,
I didn't let animals get at it or something like that.
A weird psychology to it. But yes, you would generally
see people who are the random killers that they just
dump it and run. But in cases like these is.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Typically so you know what we're seeing that right now, Dan.
In the case of Suzanne Morphew, a mom out of
Colorado who goes missing on a bike ride on Mother's Day,
Suzanne was not murdered where her body was found, and
investigative forensics experts can tell that because of the condition
(31:35):
in which the body was found, she was not murdered there.
She was dumped their post mortem, which is staging. So
obviously someone wanted to hide her body. Why because her
body would point to them. I think that's what happened
in this case. Someone tried to hide the nine year
(31:56):
old little girl, Molina's body under a log submerged in water.
Why joining me now a special guest doctor Kendall Crown's
chief medical Examiner, Terrance County. That's Fort Worth, as I
like to say, never a lack of business in the
morgue at Fort Worth. He is the star of a
brand new podcast and Mayhem in the Morgue, and he
(32:17):
is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine
at TCU. Okay, Doctor Kendall Crowns, I need to know
what forensic evidence I can get off this little girl's body.
She's been submerged in water. We believe, according to law
enforcement in that jurisdiction, that she was killed between seven
(32:38):
forty pm and nine twelve pm. And heartbreakingly, this is
about an hour after the mother spoke to her and
everything was fine. An hour and ten minutes later, she's dead.
So help me out what can we glean from her
body and how, Doctor Kendall Crowns, Okay.
Speaker 10 (32:59):
So pretty much, it sounds like she's probably beaten and strangled.
So what you'll see on the body is bruising about
the head and neck, possibly on the chest. Internally, there'll
be hemorrhages in the neck musculature. There might be little
pinpoint hemorrhages which are called particular hemorrhages in the eyes,
(33:19):
which are seen with strangulations as well. Due to her age,
there probably won't be any fracturing of the bones around
her neck, the highway bone, the thyroid cartilage, those won't
be fractured because she's too young. But what you'll see
internally is a lot of neck muscle hemorrhage from a strangulation. Now,
if she's been beaten about the head, you'll see bruises
(33:42):
of the head. You possibly will see skull fractures, and
you might see hemorrhages on the brain called subarachnoid hemorrhages
or subdural hemorrhages as well. So you might have a
combination of beating with a strangulation. But that's what she'll
be really looking.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
For crime stores with Nancy Grace, Doctor gentle Crowns, How
can I find evidence on her that can point me
to the perp? How likely is it that DNA on
(34:20):
her body would survive being pushed under a log and
submerged in water.
Speaker 10 (34:25):
So with the DNA that she would have with blunt
force injuries or strangulation, it'd be more of the touch
DNA on the surface of the skin, and that can
be obscured by being submerged in water, especially if she's
in there for a prolonged period of time. So it
may be difficult to necessarily get DNA from the body
that can implicate an individual. But the problem is is
(34:47):
she's with her father on this trip, so any she's
going to be covered in his DNA potentially, so if
they are able to get DNA, it will obviously be his,
and they would be looking for someone else's to corroborate
his story.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Right, the fact that she may have her dad's DNA
on her body would not necessarily prove anything. I mean,
if he had hugged her that morning, or picked her
up and put her on a ride or anything like
that could have left DNA. I still don't know if
she was clothed or unclothed, which would make a big
difference in the type of DNA if any is found
on the body. Would you agree with that, Doctor Kenvil.
Speaker 10 (35:25):
Crowns, I would agree with that. And the very fact
that she's in a car with him, she's going to
be coated with his DNA if she is knew, that
could mean that she was possibly sexually assaulted, and in
that situation there would be able to recover DNA from
her vaginal orifices or anal orifice, or even her oral
(35:46):
orifices as well, even though she's in water.
Speaker 9 (35:50):
Alise alleged Foratlan fabricated the entire kidnapping story after killing
Molina and dumping her body in a remote area.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Hours earlier he reported this.
Speaker 5 (35:59):
He all he fabricated the initial report of the abduction,
and he was in in the custody of police from
that point on. Sometime after Molina's phone call with her
mother and before Monsieur Frattolin's nih one call, he allegedly
murdered Molina and left her body in a remote area
where she's later discovered by law enforcement. Initial reports from
(36:21):
mister Frattolan of a suspicious white band in the area
of the alleged disappearance, which proven to be untrue. The
suspect has been charged with the murder in the second
degree and concealment of human corpse.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
So it was all a hoax to cover up a murder.
It's really hard for me to deal with the timing
because at six thirty pm, Molina was alive and well,
if you said, talking to her mom on the phone,
had had a great time with dad, was on the
way home. What could possibly have been the motive to
(36:56):
do this? To Sidney Sumner from Crime Stories, what's it
potential momive?
Speaker 6 (37:01):
Well, Nancy, the parents have been divorced or separated since
twenty nineteen, and I'm sure that comes with some kind
of financial arrangement to take care of their little girl.
Dad appears very very successful on social media. He owns
a coffee company. He posted something about a Netflix project. So,
(37:24):
by all accounts, Dad looks to be a very successful businessman,
and mom may have expected him to continue contributing to
Molina's up raving.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Straight out to Laura Jimett WRGBCBS six, is it true
that the dad. Let's see that shot of him from
Facebook again. He's clad in all black and kind of
a ninja outfit. Is it true, Laura Jamet that he
was two hundred thousand dollars in debt? How did he
(37:56):
get that deeply in debt? And how much of that
was child support? Or do we even know that yet?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Yeah, they are saying right now that he was struggling
to pay child support and that he was in debt
with something to do with his coffee business.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
What coffee business? Could you explain his coffee business? Gambella?
Speaker 3 (38:15):
So he was he is, He was a founder of
Gambella Coffee and he was an entrepreneur and a lot
of there's a lot of talk about him being in debt,
either because of the business or just certain things surrounding
that but it's not confirmed yet.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
At this time, the Gambella coffee business was very intricately
described online. Sidney Sumner doesn't describe him the father growing
up quote running between the fragrant, fragrant and beautifully colored
coffee beans as a boy. He named it after a hometown. Correct.
Speaker 6 (38:55):
Yes, yes, So what we know about for Toland is
that he did a significant amount of time in Ethiopia,
so this copy company is very near and dear to
his heart. This is something from his hometown that he
founded and started. So even if it was a financial drain,
I could see that he would put money hoping that
(39:19):
this sinking ship would stay above water.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
This is after a recent posting by dad showing his
daughter where he was taking her sledding. Let's see that,
because it's seemingly incongruent, Doctor Chloe Carmichael, that he's posting
all these loving videos and then just before he goes
to take her back to mom, faced with two hundred
thousand dollars of debt, he murders her and hides her
(39:44):
body under a log. Yes, Nancy.
Speaker 4 (39:47):
The whole thing I think is it raises eyebrows, to
say the least, you know when he's posting all of
those videos. As a clinical psychologist, what comes to me
and for me is what we call impression management. Obviously
going to a lot of effort to literally broadcast to people, hey,
I'm a great dad.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
You know, I have fun with my daughter.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
As was also discussed about the white van and then
the fact that his beautiful little girl was then found underwater,
I as a psychologist, would actually start to ask myself,
you know, these are some major coincidences. I would like
to be able to see his search history on his phone.
Was he googling and learning about past situations where little girls,
(40:32):
you know, were kidnapped and disappeared? You know, supposedly he
was this He liked to broadcast an image of himself
as this, you know, successful, kind of neat freak type
of person, even though from what I understand, his social
media posts also acknowledge that he found his daughter to
be kind of chaotic and messy. But of course he
praised himself in that regard to saying, you know, but
(40:55):
I've you know, learned to accept this a lot of times,
that that perfectionism and that neat freak side is actually
about a desire to control and when somebody just can't
tolerate that, and then you know she's messing with his
bank account. In his mind, of course, it's just it's
a natural duty of him as a parent to provide.
But there's obviously something going on there, and I'm disgusted
(41:19):
at all of this, but I'm glad at the very
least that we're shining a light and looking at what
happened to this beautiful little girl.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
You know, Dan Murphy joining me former NYPD in Store
of gold Shields podcast. Dan, you pointed out a very
significant fact earlier. There's no way that this dad is
going to be able to claim any sort of mental
defect such as temporary insanity, a delusion, because you got
(41:48):
him dead in the water. Explain.
Speaker 7 (41:50):
Yeah, a guy like this, in a case like this,
he has gone through all this work to cover up
what he's done, to deflect, to move law enforcement in
different directions. You cannot claim a temporary insanity defense. I'm
not an attorney, but how do you do that when
you have all this concentrated effort focused on getting the
(42:11):
attention away from you. Now, if he had done something
and snapped back into reality and called right away, showing
he really just lost it and cared for his daughter.
There'd be a glimmer of hope for some sort of
a claim like that, But in this case, he has
done everything he can do to push it off to
somebody else and to keep the attention away from himself.
(42:32):
That to me strikes of premeditation.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
In the act, Dan Murphy, you were describing earlier how
he intentionally circled back to the dump side the pond
in a wooded area under a log to coordinate it
with where the white van may have taken her. Explain
your theory.
Speaker 7 (42:55):
If he is going to say that a white van
with two people took my daughter and headed off down
the highway, he's going to have to make sure that
she is found someplace not near where he is. That
it's plausible that they took her off, did something with her,
and then dropped her and dumped her, as opposed to
having it be anywhere near him. So this takes the
(43:15):
thought of him driving looking for a place to do
this and thinking to his head, where would it make
sense that someone who kidnapped my daughter would take her,
that would have privacy, that nobody would see them, that
they could get away with it and continue on their way.
This is all acts of somebody who is thinking on
the run, on the fly, but trying to come up
(43:37):
with a plausible explanation for what happened.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
We stop to remember an American hero, Deputy Sheriff Frank
Bordinaro Genesee County Sheriffs forty four, killed in the line
of duty after nineteen years of service, leaving behind grieving
wife now widow. Robin had two sons, Bryce and Chase,
American hero, but his Sheriff Frank Bordinor Nancy Grace signing
(44:04):
off good bye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A sickening twist after nine
year old Molina, a beautiful little girl vanishes on a
family vacation. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I
want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
A father daughter trip and see tragedy.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Nine year old little Molina on a family vacation when
dad stops for a travel break, she is abducted, and
tonight a disturbing and sickening twist in her disappearance. Joining
me an all star panel, but first straight out to
investigative reporter from WRGBCBS six Albany, Laura Jimmett is with us. Laura,
(00:49):
thank you for being with us. Where had the family,
the dad and the little girl been vacationing? Didn't they
stop at several beauty spots?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Well, Molina and her father did travel around to a
couple different destinations. They run a vacation together, some of
those locations being Connecticut, New York City, and right in
upstate New York in Lake George.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
And you know doctor Chloe Carmichael joining us in addition
to Laura Jamt, doctor Chloe's clinical psychologist and author of
Nervous Energy. You can find her at doctor Chloe. Doctor Chloe,
this was especially important to dad because he and the
mom I believe have been estrange since twenty nineteen and
(01:37):
mom has primary custody, but dad sees her quite often,
and this was their big bonding where they were going
to have dad and daughter time and that's really hard
to get when you have a busy family. I will
never forget when Lucy, my daughter was growing up, father
(01:59):
daughter dance was a huge big deal because they would
have a single night all together and that's actually hard
to come by when both parents are working. And with
these two was split custody. I mean, the mom has primary,
but the dad tries to see her all the time.
This was a big deal for the dad, Doctor Chloe.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Yes, it certainly was. And as you said, when you have,
you know, custody situations, it can be really hard to
get that time. At the same time, you know, those
can be times when emotions do tend to run really
high and things can feel intense. There can also be
a lot of image pressure, you know, for the dad
(02:42):
to try to broadcast to everybody, look, you know, we're
doing these really special things together. There can be a
lot of emotional intensity and a lot at stake during
those times as well.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
And there's also doctor Chloe Fomo Fomo fear of missing
out because when I take the Tines on a vacation,
I want everything to be great for them and make
all these memories right now up here. I know it
really doesn't matter what you do or where you go,
(03:13):
because when we were growing up, we would have Friday
and Saturday night in Gatlinburg, Tennessee. That was our vacation,
and then we would come home on Sunday. But I
remember it like I was on the riviera. For Pete's sake.
We had so much fun and everything about it was fun,
and that's the memory you want your child to have,
(03:35):
right So there is pressure if you're a loving parent
to make that happen. And that's what we see this
dad doing.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Yes, that's absolutely true, is that he seemed to want
to be creating an unforgettable lifetime experience type of trip
with his daughter. I would say that's true that there
was a lot of effort and planning that went into
orchestrating a very special trip.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Okay, guys, I want you to hear from Captain Robert McConnell.
Speaker 5 (04:05):
On Saturday, July nineteenth. At twenty twenty five, at a
practically ten o'clock PM, Warren County nine one one received
the call from a man reporting his nine year old
daughter missing with a possible abduction in the area of
VEX twenty two of Ieight seven Northway in Lake George.
The show was identified as Malina Frettoleen, age nine, and
(04:26):
the caller as her father, Luciana Frettoland, aged forty five.
The New York City Police and Warren County Sheriff's Office
immediately responded to the area of Exit twenty two in
Northway and initiate investigation and attempt to locate Molina.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
In addition to Laura Jimmett, investigative reporter WRGB CBS six
Albany now joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter Sydney Sumner, So, Sidney,
I'm trying to understand they went all to all of
these beauty spots, a beautiful waterside town in Connecticut. They
cut through Albany. I believe they spent time in New
(05:02):
York City, right, I mean, that's the whole vacation in itself,
New York City. He's showing her the sites. I'm sure
Times Square everything there is to see, now, where were
they Sydney when Dad stops for a bathroom break.
Speaker 6 (05:16):
Well, Nancy, they're heading north found on I eighty seven
and they're right at exit twenty two, which is Lake George.
So Dad decides he needs to go to the bathroom,
and he needs to go to the bathroom now. So
he pulled over. We use Molina in the backseat and
is like, look, I'm just going to go walk over
here in the woods for some privacy, relieve myself, and
(05:37):
we'll go back on our way.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
You know, it's giving me a horrible, horrible flashback to
a case that we covered Sydney. You and I and
Lauren Jamett, you're going to remember this because this is
in your neck of the woods. Where a little girl
is an upstate New York, same area. She's with her family.
There are ving and camping, and they're in the little
(06:00):
camping circle with other RVs and the mom is watching
the daughter go around and around with other children on
a bicycle loop right there right in front of them,
and a little girl goes down the hill to the
side of the bicycle loop and in that moment, literally
in that moment, she's abducted she's abducted just like that.
(06:27):
It can happen just like that. And I'm going to
go to special guests. Dan Murphy joining US former NYPD
detective sergeant who served on the Joint Terrorism Task Force,
former Chief Security Office, usban Court, and co host of
a hit podcast, gold Shields. He's also the author of
Workplace Safety. Dan, it can happen just like that, just
(06:50):
like that, And it's not because a parent isn't paying attention.
Of course, we all know, don't leave your child alone
in the car. But the dad says he was just
going to urinate on the side of the road, and
it happened just like that. But Dan, it can happen
just like that.
Speaker 7 (07:07):
Yes, it's ken. Kidnappings and abductions of children can happen.
People who do it do not just randomly jump out
of a car. Sometimes that happens, but in this case,
they look at their victims, they look and see where
the opportunity is, and they act very very quickly and decisively.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
You know, I was just talking about the case of
little Charlotte Cina. Charlotte was found alive, if you will recall,
and Laura, I'm sure you remember that Charlotte was found alive.
She was several miles away, and she was in the
purpse camper part behind his mother's home where he lived,
behind mommy's house, and she was crammed into a as
(07:47):
I recall, Jackie, correct me if I'm wrong, she was
crammed into a cabinet under a counter, in a camper
like an RV. And we've taken a lot of RV
trips the twins Dan, and it's how he got that
child crammed into that cabinet. I don't know what the
good news is. Charlotte lived and she was taken Dan,
(08:10):
just like what we're talking about. She lived, so regardless
of what may have happened in the interim, that's the
victory because she lived. Let me understand, Laura Jamette joining
us of your RGB, this was just a pit stop,
a five minute pit stop for a dad to maybe
a little bit longer to get out of the car,
go back behind the trees. You're an eate, come back
(08:34):
to the car and get in the car. It was
very quick, right, Laura.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Yes, that's correct, it was. It all happened extremely fast.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I'm trying to understand this area where he stopped for
the bathroom break. Was it in a rural area, I
mean Sidney Sumner. I know a little bit about Late George.
I know it's beautiful, but what can you tell me
Sidney about the area. Because terrain in this type of
case is very very important. You know, what if what
(09:05):
if and this doesn't happen that often a child gets
out of the car and starts walking. What if fill
in the blank, tell me about the terrain. Where is
Lake George? Where did they stop, Sydney for exactly did
they stop? Was it near a gas station? Was it
near a toll booth? What tell me?
Speaker 6 (09:24):
Well, Nancy, it's a little unclear exactly where they stopped,
if Dad actually pulled off the highway or if he
was just parked on the side of the road and
walked out into the forest. And this is a heavily
wooded area. They call this an old growth forest, so
lots of wooded area.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
The lake is huge.
Speaker 6 (09:46):
It goes a very very long way north and south
in both directions. This is a very popular vacation spot,
so there's lots of people who aren't necessarily local to
the area, especially this time beer And there's lots of
highways in this area. You get off into Route nine.
This is the North Way. This is a very large highway,
(10:09):
heavily traveled, big vacation spot. So, like you say, it's
easy to get anywhere in an hour from this spot
in particular.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Okay, you know what's disturbing about that with me a
longtime colleague, Jason Oceans. He's a veteran defense attorney who
works throughout this jurisdiction, all through New York, New Jersey,
the whole Tri state area and beyond. Jason Oceans, you
and I worked on the Dylan and Shasta Grone case
(10:41):
and that was in Cordalaine, Idaho. Now why am I
bringing that up? You just heard both Laura Jimmett and
Cidy Summer talk about this isolated area. Okay, Dad is
taking his daughter all across the New York Connecticut area,
which with which you're very familiar to the site in
the sounds of New York City, to the waterside in Connecticut,
(11:04):
and now in the adroind Dyck region of Lake George, Cordalaane, Idaho.
Sidney just said, there are a lot of interstates and
roads leading to this particular beauty spot, and it is
beautiful that much I know Cordalaine, Idaho. A guy the
perp was driving along looks off the interstate, and if
(11:28):
you look at the aerial view, as you and I
did together on a very dark studio one day, I
recall it distinctly. You look down and there's nothing but trees,
green trees. You can't see a single house. Nothing. The
purp drives by on the interstate, looks over and sees Shasta.
Gronie thinks she's about eleven or twelve at the time,
(11:48):
on getting into an above ground pool, and this guy,
unknown to the family pulls over, lies in wait, waits
for the family to go to bed, wipes out the
family and abducts the little girl and boy Dylan and shastagrown.
So the fact that all these roads converge in this area,
(12:10):
this beauty spot, this tourist spot, plus it's heavily heavily forested,
is like the Cordline case all over again. It's ideal Nancy,
as you describe it.
Speaker 8 (12:23):
It's that perfect set of circumstances in this case, as
we're talking about a potential abduction in upstate New York.
Speaker 7 (12:30):
About an hour north of Albany on the North Way.
Speaker 8 (12:33):
Yeah, it's as described it's forested, but so many little
access roads in and so many tourists, so many different
people from the community, that it is a recipe sometimes
for disaster and an abduction.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
And I've learned that Late George, I believe you visited there,
Jason Oceans, Late George is forty four square miles. I
don't know. I know you've handled cases and defended cases
where there was water search. That's never good when you
hear the words water search, never Nancy forty four square miles,
(13:07):
Dan Murphy, a water search exhaustive. If a water search
has to be conducted on forty four square miles, I'm
talking side scan and sonar, dive teams, water dogs, dogs
that can pick up a human scent and water. Yes,
it's real. That is an intense, intense search, Dan Murphy,
(13:31):
and tense.
Speaker 7 (13:32):
That's a tremendous amount of manpower that would take a
lot of hours a huge area to search. I don't
know how deep Lake Georgia's I've been there, but it
would require an unbelievable amount of time, energy, and effort
to search an area if you did not have exact
information or at least a tip as to where in
the lake. It could take weeks to drag a lake
(13:53):
like that.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
New York State beliefs have issued an Amber alert and
are desperately searching for a little girl who diss peered
from her father's car while traveling on Interstate eighty seven.
Molina Frattolan's father found her missing from the back seat
of their car after making a brief rest stop near
Exit twenty two. Nine year old Molina is five feet
tall one hundred pounds, has brown hair and brown eyes.
(14:17):
She was wearing light colored shorts, a black and white
striped T shirt, and black Adida sneakers. Anyone who may
have seen Molina should call nine one one immediately.
Speaker 9 (14:27):
Luciano Frattolan calls nine one one nine fifty eight pm
July nineteenth, frantically reporting he thinks his nine year old daughter, Molina,
has been kidnapped. Frattolan says he pulled over in near
Exit twenty two and walked into the woods to relieve himself.
When he returned, a white van was speeding away from
the shoulder and he found Molina missing from the back seat.
Rattolin doesn't remember seeing a license plate, but believes he
(14:49):
saw two men sitting in the front seat of the van.
New York State Police put out a BOLO in the
Lake George area and southbound on the Northway, but by morning,
Molina is still missing. An investigator's issue in ambrell, an.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Amber alert is issued, but they waited overnight to issue
the amber alert. Jason osens, how many times have we
seen a delay in issuing an amber alert? I'm just
thinking right off the top of my head to Cherish Periwinkle,
(15:21):
who was with her mother in a Target superstore and
they met a guy in there when they were shopping
with the little children, and he offered to go get
them hamburgers from the McDonald's inside the superstore upfront, and
they just kept walking and instead of issuing the amber
(15:41):
alert immediately as the mother rain begged, they kept suggesting
that this was somehow a custody problem, and they didn't
issue it. As soon as they did issue it, like
I don't know, twelve fifteen hours later, they got a
call that a white van had been seen. They went
to the white van and they found Cherish dead, submerged
(16:05):
in water under a log. Because of a delay in
issuing an amber alert, what is the problem with issuing
amber alerts on time?
Speaker 8 (16:18):
Nancy, that's a you know, that's a horrible spot that
law enforcement is in. Sometimes there are other circumstances, initially
in the investigation, as you mentioned, in this horrible circumstance,
and in other times they have reason to delay, there
are mistakes made, but the prudency sometimes leads to other things,
(16:40):
and oftentimes other times leads to deadly consequences.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
It's a very tough spot for detectives.
Speaker 8 (16:46):
In that moment because you and I both know that
twenty four to forty eight hours right after a loss
are in tegral.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I don't know why they don't just issue it better
safe than sorry, issue the Amber alert, and then if
it's un needed, then say hey, whereas that we've got
updated information, why sit on it? Although in their defense
to Laura Jeanette joining US investigative reporter WRGB CBS six
at Albany, Laura, the dad didn't get a tag number,
(17:16):
did he?
Speaker 6 (17:17):
Don't?
Speaker 3 (17:17):
I don't believe so.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
No, I don't think he did. Sidney Sumner, he couldn't
get a tag number, could he?
Speaker 6 (17:22):
No, there was no tag number. And Captain McConnell actually
commented on this during a press conference about the case
and said that they want to be careful not to
numb the public by putting out Amber alerts before being
sure of what's going on. So he did make that
comment in their defense about waiting for a little bit
(17:44):
more information, but ultimately they had nothing else to add
other than that white man.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Okay, well, I think that's bass Ackwards. But that said,
the dad gave a quasi description of the perps even
though he didn't have a tag number. You know, can
more concerned about numbing the public. To Amberlerts, I disagree
with that, but maybe there's more to the story than
we know. Let's hear from Captain Robert McConnell.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
On July eleventh, twenty twenty five. Mister Frattolean and Malina
and Molina expected to return on Sunday, July twentieth, at
which time Lena Bee would be returned to the costody
of her mother. At about five thirty pm on July twentieth,
Molina is observer with her father on video surveillance in
Saratoga Springs, New York. At about six thirty pm, she
spoke to her mother on the phone and told her
(18:31):
she and her father were a route back. Did child
appears to be in good health and to not indicate
she's under any dress.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Larja met joining us WRGB. The surveillance video at Saratoga
Springs that is from an unnamed business, Is that right.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yes, that's correct. The name of the business hasn't been
released at this time.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Now, that's about five thirty in the afternoon, five thirty
in the afternoon. At six point thirty, she speaks to
her mom on the phone and she says she and
her dad are back en route home and she was
in high spirits. Is that right, Laura Jaman, that's right.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
State police did say that while she was on the
phone with her mother, there was no signs of distress
and that they were just simply on their way home
from finishing up their vacation.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Laura Ja met WRGB. How long had the two been
traveling on their road trip.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
So they were traveling on this road trip from July
eleventh to the nineteenth, so eight days in total.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Eight days in total, very difficult for daddy. Finally gets
time with the daughter and then after he stops for
a pit stop, she disappears. Listen to Captain Robert McConnell.
Speaker 5 (19:42):
So the suspect's initial account is that he had pulled
over in the area of bax Of twenty two in
Lake George, pulled over to a parking lot to yearinate
is inditial reports. He steps away to a wood wooden area,
returns to the vehicle and at that point his child
has gone from the vehicle. He reports a suspicious white
van fleeing the scene southbound.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
The dreaded white van. How many times is it me,
Dan Murphy, former NYPD or is it always a white van?
I mean the story I just told you about Cherish
Peririweagle that was a white van. Why is it always
a white van?
Speaker 7 (20:17):
Yes, it does seem to be a white van a lot.
That was one of my first thoughts when I saw
the report as well, You've got to be kidding me.
How many white vans are there out there abducting children? Yeah,
that to me struck me as a little, a little
repetitive from many cases in the past.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Crime stories. With Nancy Grace, it was just a vacation,
a planned vacation. The whole family had been looking forward
to it. Listen, it was just a vacation.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
It was a planned vacation. They visited a couple locations
in Connecticut, as well as New York. They're most recently
in New York City. She had no concerns for dur City.
While she's with him, she knew that he was taking
here on the strip. The Warren County Sheriff's Office sent
every resource available to investigate this, right, it's inception same
with New York State Police. We had us in conjunction
(21:13):
with the law enforcement partners. We had aviation, drones, canine investigators,
uniform troopers. Every resource we had to bear we applied
in this investigation.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
When a nine year old little girl goes missing off
a family vacation, an amber alert is issued. An all
out searched by land by water ensues, but then a
disturbing detail emerges listen jering a subsequent interview.
Speaker 5 (21:43):
He then reports two unknown males forster into a white van.
Speaker 9 (21:48):
New York State Police suspects something isn't right when Luciano
Frattolin first says he saw a white van speeding away
from the shoulder, then claims he actually saw two men
dragging Molina into a white van.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Okay, let me understand what's happening to Sidney Sumner Crime
Story's investigative reporter. At first, Dad says, he leaves the
vehicle just for a pit stop to your innate on
the side of the road and gets back to the
car and sees a white van speeding off. Now I'm hearing,
(22:21):
he says, he spots two unknown males forcing his daughter
into a flite van. That is a subtle but very
critical different Sydney.
Speaker 6 (22:33):
Absolutely, it plays a huge part in police starting an investigation,
knowing where to look what's going on. So at first
he says, you know, maybe this van had something to
do with my daughter disappearing from the car. So he
thinks maybe my daughter has been kidnapped, and then he
changes his story to no, I watched her get kidnapped.
(22:56):
I was walking back to the car. I see people
dragging her from my car to this white band. I'm
running back up trying to stop them, but they speed
off before I can get there, so changes the story hugely.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Jason Otions is a veteran trial lawyer in this jurisdiction
where little Molina goes missing. Jason, you and I have
talked a lot about inconsistent statements, and I never have
a problem with a witness or a victim adding to
their statement. In fact, when they add to their statement.
I blame the questioner because I believe the questioner didn't
(23:33):
ask the right question to start with. You have to
change the question up. You have to come at it
from different angles to get every single fact. Adding to
a statement, I don't have a problem embellishing your statement. Good,
give me more facts. But when you change the statement,
I guess you're going to tell me that he really
didn't change his statement, because I think he did.
Speaker 8 (23:55):
No Nanty. I think in the critical analysis of what
we're talking about, it's essential for the investigator to possibly
ask eight questions to get that one handswer and bring
it out. I can cross and ask the same question
almost you multiple times, trying to elicit what I'm looking for.
Perhaps so an investigator operates the same way as you
(24:16):
and I do from a prosecutor side or a criminal
defense side. But your analysis of that is exactly right,
and that's seemingly the details that lead the police to
question the father.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Adding on to a statement, no problem changing a statement.
I mean, doctor Chloe Carmichael, to this day. To this day,
doctor Chloe, I recall the last moment I saw my
fiance Keith before he was murdered. He was leaving my
parents home, and he was driving away in a white vehic,
(24:48):
his white vehicle, and he lifted up his left arm
out of the car and waved over the car, and
I waved back. That's the last time I saw him.
I remember it at this moment exactly what happened. And
I have a really hard time with the fact that
the dad changed his story about the last moment he
(25:09):
saw his daughter. First, just when he gets out of
the car to go urinate, pisted up in the woods.
Now he actually sees her getting dragged into a white van.
Because that gives me a lot of questions. Dragged by
who did you say? Two men? Was she screaming? Did
they seem to know her? Did she know them? Were
they white? Were they Asian? Were they black? Did they
(25:30):
have facial hair? How tall were they? I mean a
lot of questions. Right, that's a big change, Doctor Chloe.
You can't remember the last moment you saw your daughter,
your nine year old little girl.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
No, of course, Nancy are absolutely right to omit such
an important fact. It just it boggles logic. So if
you're a father, your daughter is being dragged away by
two men, and yet you don't see fit two men
that when you initially speak to police. It's just it's
(26:04):
one of the most obvious points of information that a
father or any parent, or even just a casual bystander
would make sure to relay to the police. So yeah,
I would be very suspicious of that as well.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
And you know, doctor Chloe, very often we hear arguments that, well,
he was under a lot of stress. Okay, fine, we're
all under stress. But in that moment, you can't remember
the last time you see your daughter. I mean Dan
Murphy joining me, former NYPD star of Goldshields podcast. I
would be all over him like white on Rice when
he changed the last moment he sees his daughter. How
(26:42):
can you screw that up?
Speaker 7 (26:43):
You can't. You can't unless you're making something up or
unless you're thinking on the fly. Now, an individual like this,
you say he's under pressure and stress. That's believable. But
believe me, every legitimate victim I've seen who's had a
family member either abducted or seriously injured member is a
great deal of things about that moment, especially when immediately
confronted by law enforcement. In this case, you want to
(27:06):
tell them everything you know. He kept it very generic
at first, and it's as though he's thinking of the
story in his mind. I have to make something more up,
I have to add more to it.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Then A very disturbing update, A heartbreaking update from Captain McConnell.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
On Sunday, July twentieth, a search detail compris of officers
from multiple agencies conducted an organized search in the town
of taikonder Rogan, New York, in an area, an area
mister Frettonne was suspected of having visited. During that search detail,
at approximately ten to fifty members of the New York
State Police Forest Rangers located Molina, deceased in the shallow
(27:47):
portion of a pond.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Investigators are tight liped as to why, but the search
for Molina leads detectives to tykond Roga, about forty miles
north of where the little girl's father says she was
last seen and one of their stomps on their road trip.
Authorities aren't searching long before they announced a discovery at
one fifty pm. It's Molina, her body found hidden under
(28:10):
a log in the shallows of a pond. It's still
uncertain how Molina died, but it's clear she hadn't been
there very long, and someone tried to conceal her body
straight out.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
To investigative reporter WRGBCBS six Albany, Laura Jimmette, Laura again,
thank you for being with us. Explained to me how
her body was seemingly hidden.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
So when they went out to tech Honderoga and state
police also talked a little bit about how they knew
to go out there. This was through inconsistencies with the
father's story and just through different technology. So when they
were searching the wood, they came across a small pond,
a small body of water, and they stated how her
(28:55):
body was pressed under the log. So she was trying
to be con field, but it was clear that she
was under there.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
When you mentioned large met technology, obviously the phones were pinged.
Obviously phones were pined to put her in a certain area.
All of that is being investigated as we speak tonight,
but we do know her body was hidden. This little
(29:24):
nine year old girl, just scrubbed in sunshine, was forced
under a log much less like Cherish Periwinkle was. Now,
this is what I'm getting at to Dan Murphy, former
NYPD and star of gold Shields podcast, That is concealing
the body and when there is a random attack, a
(29:46):
random murder, let's just say a carjacking or a robbery,
a burglary, and the victim is home and so the
park kills them. Typically well overwhelmingly statistically, the purp doesn't
take time to stage the scene. They're out of there.
(30:11):
So I would say, almost universally, this means it was
someone that knows her that took the time to hide
her body. Right, Can you say it better than I did?
The staging of the scene that's trying to conceal the
body tells me it's not random.
Speaker 7 (30:31):
I agree with you, it's not random. And this kind
of situation, hiding the body like that is almost like
putting a blanket over someone when they get killed in
a home. It's an act of care. You don't want
to see the body. You either don't want to see
it yourself, or you don't want to see it harmed anymore.
In this case, out in the woods, maybe hiding it
under there's twofold one. It takes longer to find it,
so maybe it gives him more time to run. But secondly,
(30:53):
it gives whoever did this the opportunity to say, well,
I didn't let animals get at it or something like that.
A weird psychology to it. But yes, you would generally
see people who are the random killers that they just
dump it and run. But in cases like these is.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Typically so you know what we're seeing that right now, Dan.
In the case of Suzanne Morphew, a mom out of
Colorado who goes missing on a bike ride on Mother's Day,
Suzanne was not murdered where her body was found, and
investigative forensics experts can tell that because of the condition
(31:35):
in which the body was found, she was not murdered there.
She was dumped their post mortem, which is staging. So
obviously someone wanted to hide her body. Why because her
body would point to them. I think that's what happened
in this case. Someone tried to hide the nine year
(31:56):
old little girl, Molina's body under a log submerged in water.
Why joining me now a special guest doctor Kendall Crown's
chief medical Examiner, Terrance County. That's Fort Worth, as I
like to say, never a lack of business in the
morgue at Fort Worth. He is the star of a
brand new podcast and Mayhem in the Morgue, and he
(32:17):
is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine
at TCU. Okay, Doctor Kendall Crowns, I need to know
what forensic evidence I can get off this little girl's body.
She's been submerged in water. We believe, according to law
enforcement in that jurisdiction, that she was killed between seven
(32:38):
forty pm and nine twelve pm. And heartbreakingly, this is
about an hour after the mother spoke to her and
everything was fine. An hour and ten minutes later, she's dead.
So help me out what can we glean from her
body and how, Doctor Kendall Crowns, Okay.
Speaker 10 (32:59):
So pretty much, it sounds like she's probably beaten and strangled.
So what you'll see on the body is bruising about
the head and neck, possibly on the chest. Internally, there'll
be hemorrhages in the neck musculature. There might be little
pinpoint hemorrhages which are called particular hemorrhages in the eyes,
(33:19):
which are seen with strangulations as well. Due to her age,
there probably won't be any fracturing of the bones around
her neck, the highway bone, the thyroid cartilage, those won't
be fractured because she's too young. But what you'll see
internally is a lot of neck muscle hemorrhage from a strangulation. Now,
if she's been beaten about the head, you'll see bruises
(33:42):
of the head. You possibly will see skull fractures, and
you might see hemorrhages on the brain called subarachnoid hemorrhages
or subdural hemorrhages as well. So you might have a
combination of beating with a strangulation. But that's what she'll
be really looking.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
For crime stores with Nancy Grace, Doctor gentle Crowns, How
can I find evidence on her that can point me
to the perp? How likely is it that DNA on
(34:20):
her body would survive being pushed under a log and
submerged in water.
Speaker 10 (34:25):
So with the DNA that she would have with blunt
force injuries or strangulation, it'd be more of the touch
DNA on the surface of the skin, and that can
be obscured by being submerged in water, especially if she's
in there for a prolonged period of time. So it
may be difficult to necessarily get DNA from the body
that can implicate an individual. But the problem is is
(34:47):
she's with her father on this trip, so any she's
going to be covered in his DNA potentially, so if
they are able to get DNA, it will obviously be his,
and they would be looking for someone else's to corroborate
his story.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Right, the fact that she may have her dad's DNA
on her body would not necessarily prove anything. I mean,
if he had hugged her that morning, or picked her
up and put her on a ride or anything like
that could have left DNA. I still don't know if
she was clothed or unclothed, which would make a big
difference in the type of DNA if any is found
on the body. Would you agree with that, Doctor Kenvil.
Speaker 10 (35:25):
Crowns, I would agree with that. And the very fact
that she's in a car with him, she's going to
be coated with his DNA if she is knew, that
could mean that she was possibly sexually assaulted, and in
that situation there would be able to recover DNA from
her vaginal orifices or anal orifice, or even her oral
(35:46):
orifices as well, even though she's in water.
Speaker 9 (35:50):
Alise alleged Foratlan fabricated the entire kidnapping story after killing
Molina and dumping her body in a remote area.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Hours earlier he reported this.
Speaker 5 (35:59):
He all he fabricated the initial report of the abduction,
and he was in in the custody of police from
that point on. Sometime after Molina's phone call with her
mother and before Monsieur Frattolin's nih one call, he allegedly
murdered Molina and left her body in a remote area
where she's later discovered by law enforcement. Initial reports from
(36:21):
mister Frattolan of a suspicious white band in the area
of the alleged disappearance, which proven to be untrue. The
suspect has been charged with the murder in the second
degree and concealment of human corpse.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
So it was all a hoax to cover up a murder.
It's really hard for me to deal with the timing
because at six thirty pm, Molina was alive and well,
if you said, talking to her mom on the phone,
had had a great time with dad, was on the
way home. What could possibly have been the motive to
(36:56):
do this? To Sidney Sumner from Crime Stories, what's it
potential momive?
Speaker 6 (37:01):
Well, Nancy, the parents have been divorced or separated since
twenty nineteen, and I'm sure that comes with some kind
of financial arrangement to take care of their little girl.
Dad appears very very successful on social media. He owns
a coffee company. He posted something about a Netflix project. So,
(37:24):
by all accounts, Dad looks to be a very successful businessman,
and mom may have expected him to continue contributing to
Molina's up raving.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Straight out to Laura Jimett WRGBCBS six, is it true
that the dad. Let's see that shot of him from
Facebook again. He's clad in all black and kind of
a ninja outfit. Is it true, Laura Jamet that he
was two hundred thousand dollars in debt? How did he
(37:56):
get that deeply in debt? And how much of that
was child support? Or do we even know that yet?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
Yeah, they are saying right now that he was struggling
to pay child support and that he was in debt
with something to do with his coffee business.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
What coffee business? Could you explain his coffee business? Gambella?
Speaker 3 (38:15):
So he was he is, He was a founder of
Gambella Coffee and he was an entrepreneur and a lot
of there's a lot of talk about him being in debt,
either because of the business or just certain things surrounding
that but it's not confirmed yet.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
At this time, the Gambella coffee business was very intricately
described online. Sidney Sumner doesn't describe him the father growing
up quote running between the fragrant, fragrant and beautifully colored
coffee beans as a boy. He named it after a hometown. Correct.
Speaker 6 (38:55):
Yes, yes, So what we know about for Toland is
that he did a significant amount of time in Ethiopia,
so this copy company is very near and dear to
his heart. This is something from his hometown that he
founded and started. So even if it was a financial drain,
I could see that he would put money hoping that
(39:19):
this sinking ship would stay above water.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
This is after a recent posting by dad showing his
daughter where he was taking her sledding. Let's see that,
because it's seemingly incongruent, Doctor Chloe Carmichael, that he's posting
all these loving videos and then just before he goes
to take her back to mom, faced with two hundred
thousand dollars of debt, he murders her and hides her
(39:44):
body under a log. Yes, Nancy.
Speaker 4 (39:47):
The whole thing I think is it raises eyebrows, to
say the least, you know when he's posting all of
those videos. As a clinical psychologist, what comes to me
and for me is what we call impression management. Obviously
going to a lot of effort to literally broadcast to people, hey,
I'm a great dad.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
You know, I have fun with my daughter.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
As was also discussed about the white van and then
the fact that his beautiful little girl was then found underwater,
I as a psychologist, would actually start to ask myself,
you know, these are some major coincidences. I would like
to be able to see his search history on his phone.
Was he googling and learning about past situations where little girls,
(40:32):
you know, were kidnapped and disappeared? You know, supposedly he
was this He liked to broadcast an image of himself
as this, you know, successful, kind of neat freak type
of person, even though from what I understand, his social
media posts also acknowledge that he found his daughter to
be kind of chaotic and messy. But of course he
praised himself in that regard to saying, you know, but
(40:55):
I've you know, learned to accept this a lot of times,
that that perfectionism and that neat freak side is actually
about a desire to control and when somebody just can't
tolerate that, and then you know she's messing with his
bank account. In his mind, of course, it's just it's
a natural duty of him as a parent to provide.
But there's obviously something going on there, and I'm disgusted
(41:19):
at all of this, but I'm glad at the very
least that we're shining a light and looking at what
happened to this beautiful little girl.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
You know, Dan Murphy joining me former NYPD in Store
of gold Shields podcast. Dan, you pointed out a very
significant fact earlier. There's no way that this dad is
going to be able to claim any sort of mental
defect such as temporary insanity, a delusion, because you got
(41:48):
him dead in the water. Explain.
Speaker 7 (41:50):
Yeah, a guy like this, in a case like this,
he has gone through all this work to cover up
what he's done, to deflect, to move law enforcement in
different directions. You cannot claim a temporary insanity defense. I'm
not an attorney, but how do you do that when
you have all this concentrated effort focused on getting the
(42:11):
attention away from you. Now, if he had done something
and snapped back into reality and called right away, showing
he really just lost it and cared for his daughter.
There'd be a glimmer of hope for some sort of
a claim like that, But in this case, he has
done everything he can do to push it off to
somebody else and to keep the attention away from himself.
(42:32):
That to me strikes of premeditation.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
In the act, Dan Murphy, you were describing earlier how
he intentionally circled back to the dump side the pond
in a wooded area under a log to coordinate it
with where the white van may have taken her. Explain
your theory.
Speaker 7 (42:55):
If he is going to say that a white van
with two people took my daughter and headed off down
the highway, he's going to have to make sure that
she is found someplace not near where he is. That
it's plausible that they took her off, did something with her,
and then dropped her and dumped her, as opposed to
having it be anywhere near him. So this takes the
(43:15):
thought of him driving looking for a place to do
this and thinking to his head, where would it make
sense that someone who kidnapped my daughter would take her,
that would have privacy, that nobody would see them, that
they could get away with it and continue on their way.
This is all acts of somebody who is thinking on
the run, on the fly, but trying to come up
(43:37):
with a plausible explanation for what happened.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
We stop to remember an American hero, Deputy Sheriff Frank
Bordinaro Genesee County Sheriffs forty four, killed in the line
of duty after nineteen years of service, leaving behind grieving
wife now widow. Robin had two sons, Bryce and Chase,
American hero, but his Sheriff Frank Bordinor Nancy Grace signing
(44:04):
off good bye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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