July 23, 2024 • 40 mins
On the way to Bridgerton City Park in southern New Jersey, Noema Alavez Perez takes her children, Dulce Maria Alavez, 5, and her 3-year-old brother to get ice cream.
Once at the park, the children play on the swings as Noema is in her car about 30 yards away helping her sister with homework on the phone. Seeing her son crying by the swings, Perez walks toward him to find out what is going on and finds someone has thrown his ice cream on the ground, noticing Dulce is not on the swings with her brother.
No longer concerned about her sons' ice cream, Noema Perez begins scanning the park for Dulce.
Noema Alavez Perez was about 30 yards away from her children playing on swings in the park, and when she couldn't find Dulce for a few minutes, she thought her daughter was hiding, trying to be funny. Dulce has never run off before, but Perez doesn't see her anywhere in the park.
Asking everyone standing near the basketball court if they have seen Dulce Maria Alavez, she hears several stories of the 5-year-old running behind houses with two different men and another child. Living every parent's biggest nightmare, Perez calls 911 to report her daughter missing in the park.
JOINING NANCY TODAY:
- Noema Alavez - Mother of Dulce Alavez
- Brenda Trinadad - Family friend and advocate for Dulce Alavez
- Kathleen Murphy – North Carolina Family Attorney
- Dr. Chloe Carmichael – Clinical Psychologist, Women’s Health Magazine Advisory Board;’ Author: ‘Nervous Energy: Harness The Power of Your Anxiety;’ X: @DrChloe
- Irv Brandt – (Retired) US Marshals Service International Investigations Branch, Author: “GOING SOLO: The Gospel of Luke,” and “SOLO JOURNEY: Buddha Knights;” X: @JackSoloAuthor
- Claudia Vargas - Investigative Reporter at NBC10 Philadelphia; Documentary “Somebody Knows Something: The Disappearance of Dulce” is now steaming on Peacock; X: @ByClaudiaVargas
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
A distraught mother says, who snatched my girl? Just five
from the playground? Where is Dulce? Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace.
This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Five year old Dulce Maria Alparez mysteriously vanishes from a
playground and bridged in New Jersey while mommy is only
yards away. Dulce's family pleads with the public to help.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Joining us tonight is Dulce's mother begging for help? How
does a little girl get snatched from the playground basically
under mommy's nose? This is not the first time a
child has been snatched from a playground? Can witnesses be believed?
Where is Dulce? Everyone? I want to give you right
(00:57):
off the top, a tip line, a toll free tip line,
and a search for Dulce one eight hundred two two
five five three two four. There is a fifty two
thousand dollar reward for information leading to the discovery of
what happened to this five year old beautiful little girl.
Repeat eight hundred two two five five three two four.
(01:21):
Joining me an all star panel to make sense of
what we know regarding Dulce's disappearance, including Dulce's mother. But
first I'm going to go to a special guest joining
us who has been on the case since the beginning.
Many people say the story, but this is not a story.
(01:42):
This is a real family suffering real pain without their daughter.
To all of you moms and dads, grandparents out there,
a five year old little girl snatched from a public playground.
Straight out to Cloria Vargas, investigative reporter in let me
see Philly, who is the star of a documentary. Somebody
(02:07):
knows something the disappearance of Dulce, and it's streaming on Peacock. Claudia,
thank you for being with us. Tell me what you
understand happened the day that Dulce goes missing.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Right, Well, Dulce had just gotten out of school that
day and her and her little brother were asking mom,
you know, they wanted to go to the playground like
any little kid, And so that afternoon they headed off
to their local playground.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
Mom was sitting in the car and they went with technically,
it's Dulsa's aunt, it's noema, who's the mom. Her little sister,
who was actually closer in age to dulcet So Camilla,
who is Dulsa's aunt, was doing her homework in the car.
Mom was sitting there as well, playing a lottery scratch
off while the kids were kind of in her line
(02:54):
of view, but you know, the playground is a little
further out.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
They're playing.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
All of a sudden, Mom looks up, doesn't see them,
so she goes to check on them and finds Dulsa's
little brother, three year old Manuel, crying and dul says,
nowhere to be found. So immediately Mom starts looking around.
She's thinking, dul says, playing hide and seek. After about
forty minutes, realizes I can't find my daughter. So that's
(03:19):
when she places the nine to one one call.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Guys joining me.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
In addition to Claudia Vargus, is Dulcey's mother, Dulce Maria
no Maya Olavez nameya, thank you for being with us.
This is Dulcey's mother, Noema. So many times since Dulce
went missing, you have been attacked. You have been attacked
(03:45):
because you were sitting in the car helping with homework.
And you know what, I've done it myself, I who
have literally written a book including child safety at playgrounds.
I had to bring one of my twins back to
the car. She wanted bottled water. Then that was in
(04:06):
the cooler. My daughter was red in the face and flushed,
so we go back to the car. It was about,
oh gosh, thirty forty yards from my son.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I could see him.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I could see him going up the slide and coming down,
and I opened up the trunk of the car. I
couldn't see him at that time. I got out of
the water, I gave it to my daughter, I shut
the trunk, I got something out side of the car,
and we walked back to where my son was. I've
done it more than once because I believed I could
(04:43):
see him. You were not that far away from Dulce.
Your attention, true was diverted, but you were not that
far away from Dulce. You could see her and her
little brother. Manny no way, But tell me what happened
(05:04):
the day your five year old daughter vanished.
Speaker 6 (05:07):
It was a Monday, September sixteen. I remember that I
wasn't working at that time. My mom wasn't working either.
She had her day off and the kids were getting
ready to go to school. So I want to go
get coffee and donuts, fugging donuts, And while gul said
(05:31):
was getting ready, she already knew that I was going
to get donuts. And I went and I was coming,
I was coming back and I was I was about
I ran over someone and I was getting delayed. So
as soon as I got home, Hu said was already
on the bus and my mom had told me that
(05:52):
she was crying because she didn't want to get on
the bus and my mom told her she has to
go in the bus.
Speaker 7 (05:58):
She has to go to school.
Speaker 6 (06:01):
My mom said that she returned back before she went
inside the US.
Speaker 7 (06:06):
She came in, went and talked my mom and then
she left.
Speaker 6 (06:10):
After that, we went to mynu's appointment and we had
went out to eat. After that, we had came home.
It was already time for the kids to come home.
So I had went to Luisa's post up with her
dusing Kamila get off and I went and got them off.
(06:30):
We got home and Dulca tells me they want to go.
They wanted to go play. Then I told them okay,
but it was hot that day, and then I just
didn't want her to go no more, and I told
her we're not going to go no more and then
I still remember that she started crying. She started jumping
up and down. Then she said, I want to go.
(06:52):
She said, I want to go to the park. You
said we were going, and now you're saying no, and
as I because I told her that we were going
to go, but we.
Speaker 7 (07:05):
Then I was telling her that we weren't going to
go on more.
Speaker 6 (07:07):
But then at the end we did win and we
were going to the park again, like it was hot.
I asked them if they wanted ice cream, and they
said yes. We stopped and ice cream shop, but as
soon as I noticed that ice cream shop was close,
and so we went to a nearby gas station and
(07:27):
that's where the kids were getting their ice cream and
they got their ice cream and I got a lot
of lottery ticket.
Speaker 7 (07:40):
After there, we went to the park.
Speaker 6 (07:43):
As soon as we got down, we got in the park,
Luisa started opening her ice cream manual two and they
were so excited that they were already they wanted to
get down from the park. I told him to wait,
but they were already they were excited. I'm like, okay,
you guys can go. And my Cameilla. At that time,
she was doing bad at school and I had a
(08:05):
helper with her homework so she could get better, and
I told her to stay in the car and until
she finishes homework, and I stayed with her inside the
car and I led my two kids, Manuo and Blusa
Maria go play in the playground. But I could see
the playground where was I parked at, But the only
(08:25):
thing I couldn't see was the swings.
Speaker 7 (08:28):
And my mom.
Speaker 6 (08:29):
I thought they needed my help to get in the
swings in order for me to push them.
Speaker 7 (08:35):
So they were in the slide and I was scratching
a lot of ticket.
Speaker 6 (08:42):
I put my head down and I saw last thing
I saw was Lousemanuo going down for the slide. And
when I was in the lottery ticket, then I had
received a message and just a few minutes I really
don't remember how many minutes were they When I looked
(09:02):
my head up, I didn't sell them no more. I
didn't tell them Lusa or Manum. That's when I had
told Amilive she could go track, and she did. She went,
but she only came with Manu and I told her
worst loosen and she told me she couldn't find her.
(09:24):
So I got down and went checked on myself and
there was no one at the park except some girls
in the basketball court, and I was looking for her,
screaming her name, and it was weird to me at first,
like why is she coming out? She never does this. Then,
(09:45):
at first, the first thing I came to mom like
she's probably playing hide and seek. She just wanted to play.
So I started looking for her everywhere and I couldn't
find her player, So I went behind some shots that
they were there. As soon as I went back there,
I didn't seen nothing, and I seen a trash can, like,
probably she's inside the trash can hiding.
Speaker 7 (10:08):
As soon I.
Speaker 6 (10:09):
Was already back at the buildings, I was already mad,
like she's already playing too hard that I didn't want
to think the worst at that time. I just wanted
to think that she was around and that she was
paying minutes past. But I went around the park two
(10:30):
times and I couldn't find her. And that's when I
had called the police, and I was on the phone
with them until they got there. And they got there,
they closed the park, a lot of ambulance, firefighters came, police.
Speaker 7 (10:47):
Everyone started going inside the woods.
Speaker 6 (10:50):
They started searching, like over two weeks in the park.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace Guys.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Joining us is Dulsein, Maria's mother describing what happened when
her little five year old girl is kidnapped. Snatched from
a park. Many detectives called it an old school kidnapping.
Listen to our friend, doctor Phil.
Speaker 6 (11:27):
I'll just walked towards the park and I found myself crying,
just standing there.
Speaker 7 (11:32):
I thought that she was playing hide and seek.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
I didn't want to believe that somebody took her.
Speaker 7 (11:37):
You just pointed behind some building.
Speaker 6 (11:40):
I looked behind these buildings and.
Speaker 7 (11:43):
I couldn't find her.
Speaker 6 (11:44):
I came down the path looking for her, you knowing
her name, and she wasn't an answering.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
The ice cream video is of Dulce Maria going into
a little store the day she disappears. The day she disappears,
Brenda Trinidad joining us, a very close family friend and advocate. Brenda,
thank you for being with us and helping Naima through this.
(12:11):
That's how quickly everything happened. The ice cream hadn't even
melted yet. They get the ice cream at the little store,
they go to the playground. Mom is in the car
helping with homework. She sees Manny crying and goes out there.
She thinks he dropped his ice cream. The ice cream
hadn't even melted yet, Brenda, that's how quickly everything occurred.
Speaker 7 (12:34):
Yes, I agree with you, Nancy on that.
Speaker 8 (12:37):
Strangely, it seems like maybe the abductor was already lurking
in the park, because you can't be a rookie and
just take a child from apart that you necessarily don't
know the ends or the outside the park. That is
a real complicated part to come in and a real
complicated part to get out, and your chances of getting
caught with a child in the car are very extremely
(12:59):
high someone who doesn't know how to case area.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
You know what's interesting, Brenda, trendid Dad. I write about
that in my book, Don't be a victim. When you're
taking your children to playgrounds or parks, Exactly what Noeima
did is what you should do. I don't mean sitting
in the car park. I mean taking a child to
a park where there is very limited in and out.
(13:25):
In other words, go to a playground or a park
that has a fence around it, and then you position
yourself either with your child or at that opening where
someone would have to go in and out, not an
open playground where there's a three hundred and sixty degree
entry and exit access. Now, what do you mean, Brenda
when you say this is a very difficult park for
(13:48):
an abduct or a kidnapped a kid after to get
in and out.
Speaker 8 (13:52):
Well, Nancy, you have many ways to get inside the park,
and then two of the entrance ways are located besides
two schools, So you have two schools that are right
in front of where the park where she went missing.
So you have Cherry Elementary schools at West Avenue High
School I'm sorry, West Avenue School, and then you have
(14:13):
Bristian High School, which both are on each different ends
of a road, So you have Burt Avenue, you have
West Avenue School, and then on Scholastic Drive you have
the Britian High School. Now, if you leave from there,
you're possibly going to be caught on camera, and one
of the other exits you go in front of a
zoo as well, and.
Speaker 7 (14:32):
Courthouses and everything like that.
Speaker 8 (14:35):
So it's kind of strange to know that they were
able to leave with a child in broad daylight and
not be caught in any of the cameras nearby.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
What happened to Dulce just five years old, joining me IRV. Brandt,
former US Marshall Service and author of a series of
books on Amazon about Jack Solo. One being Flying Solo
Top of the World, orv thank you so much for
being with US. Police immediately flood the area. They're searching
(15:07):
high and low. This has been referred to as a
quote old school kidnapping. What does that mean?
Speaker 9 (15:14):
Well, Nancy, what they're mean by old school is just
snatching a kid up from a park, from out in
front of a school, or from a parking lot of
What immediately comes to your mind is a van coming
by with a sliding door and someone snatches it up
a kid and drives away. So I believe that's what
(15:35):
the police are talking about when they talk about old school.
It was a snatching graph.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Well, you heard Dolce's mother Neueima describing and her friend
Brenda Trinidad, who's helping, describing that this was a predator's dream. Okay,
because they're describing the fact that the predator had to
already be in there based on the ends and outs,
(16:02):
the entrances and exits of the playground. It makes perfect sense,
of Brandt because you've got multiple schools around there. This
is a kid's playground. It's not like it's an out
of the way place. This was exactly where a predator
would go to snatch a little girl.
Speaker 9 (16:18):
I agree, Nancy, and I listened to the mother and
how she described it, and I think the same thing.
You could be in that park. That park is huge,
it has schools, it has a zoo, it has a playground,
and you could be in there without drawing notice, and
you could be, as you said, lurking around and looking
(16:42):
for an opportunity to do just what had happened, is
to snatch a kid up and drive off, and before
anybody realizes what has happened, that person would be gone.
The police wouldn't have a chance to and that park
is massive, and they wouldn't have a chance to lock
(17:03):
down the area. And so once you're out of the park,
you could be anywhere in the city or the state
before the police really had a chance to start their
investigation and start a search.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Guys, let's listen to more of than nine on one call.
Speaker 10 (17:19):
Okay, so you're at the Basabell course behind high school here, Okay,
and what was she she left wearing?
Speaker 11 (17:31):
She was wearing I remember what clothes she was wearing.
But she was wearing. I just remember what fans she
was wearing, like a slowery fans and some heels, some
my heels.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Back to mom Nuaima olive us joining us Neweima. Thank
you again for telling your story. And I know it's
painful to relive what happened when you got to little brother.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
What did Manny say?
Speaker 7 (18:03):
Manuel?
Speaker 6 (18:04):
At that time, he was non verbal, he had speech
delay at three years old. And I asked him and
all he could say was just point behind the buildings,
and said that's all he could said, just point behind
the buildings because he wasn't talking.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
And I've seen the video of you showing exactly where
you went behind the buildings. Tell me what you did
after man was pointed behind the buildings?
Speaker 1 (18:31):
What did you do?
Speaker 7 (18:32):
I was going.
Speaker 6 (18:33):
Behind the buildings searching for a nice because Manuel said
that she had went over there, and I was looking
everywhere behind the buildings instead of trash cans, and I
couldn't find her. I was screaming her name, and that's
when I noticed that I couldn't find her.
Speaker 10 (18:54):
Okay, my name fan line, which I here to the police. Okay,
and you asi correct.
Speaker 11 (19:00):
Yes, all right, Hello ma'am Hello, did you see which
direction your child went? You know, we were in the car.
She came down with my son. They were running for
the park and then I mean sister, we came down.
When we got here at the park, she was in years.
They said, my son was just trying with issume because
(19:23):
somebody I'm through his issume in the four and my
daughter just run away.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Over thirty police officers searched the surrounding areas, but Dulja
has seemingly disappeared into thin air. New Jersey Police released
a sketch of a possible witness who may be able
to crack open Dulce's case.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Where is five year old Dulce? Joining us her mom
asking for your help. I want to give you the
toll free tip line again. Eight hundred two two five
five three two four repeat eight hundred two two five
five three two four. There was a fifty two thousand
dollars reward in the search for Dulce. Straight out to
(20:04):
Kathleen Murphy joining us from Triangle Divorce Lawyers dot com,
who has handled an investigative. So many children that go missing,
typically in custodial situations, Kathleen Murphy, that is not the
case here. Dad at the time was out of the country.
He did not have anything to do with this. Way
(20:27):
in on your thoughts about the disappearance.
Speaker 12 (20:29):
I'm concerned that it is a stranger abduction. It seems
also that the child who is remaining would have said
something that they saw somebody that they knew, or was
able to communicate that they saw somebody knew.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
But what do we learn witnesses say at this scene. Listen,
when we.
Speaker 11 (20:46):
Came in and looked for her, we were looking everywhere.
Speaker 6 (20:48):
For her, and then was at the basketball court with
her daughter that there was two black males that took her.
Speaker 13 (20:53):
Son's ice cream and threw it on the ground and
left with her daughter.
Speaker 7 (20:58):
Okay, well, we have the officers.
Speaker 10 (21:00):
To pass works from Mayor Aigan.
Speaker 11 (21:02):
Are you on, Mayor Aikin, I already have an officer here. Okay,
all right, well speak with the police.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Mail okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Out to Claudia Vargas joining US investigative reporter or NBC
ten Philly, who has also created the documentary Somebody Knows
something the disappearance of Dulcey. Claudia, again, thank you for
being with us. So at the time, witnesses say two mails,
take Manuel's ice cream, throw it down and snatch Dulceay,
(21:36):
what if anything have you learned about those witness statements.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
Yeah, so we asked police about that, and if you'll
hear the beginning of the nine to one call, Noema
actually describes that she was told it was a Hispanic
mail and a blackmail. So the nine one one operator
repeated it a little differently, but the initial witness description
was a Hispanic mail and a blackmail.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
What we know is that police did.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
Eventually identify who they believed the blackmail and data determined
he was not involved in any kidnapping or anything. They
have not yet identified a Hispanic mail that matches that description,
and that's the composite sketch that was released to the public,
and you guys had that up a little while ago,
so that person still has not been identified to this day,
(22:19):
but that's essentially what the witness has described, and based
on those witness descriptions, they will to come up with
that sketch. And to this day, please say there's still
interested in speaking to that man.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
A fifty two thousand dollars reward is on the line
fifty two thousand dollars in information related to the disappearance
of Dulce. You know, IRV Brandt, a former US Marshalls
Service and now author. You have looked for people all
around the world successfully, I might add, So you've seen
(22:52):
the sketch, You've heard what happened according to witnesses, and
these are This is not just Mommy saying this. These
are witness is there on the scene. What do you
make of it?
Speaker 9 (23:04):
Well, Nancy, you use every resource that you have available
and within the Department of Justice. I know the FBI
is involved in the case, and the FBI has a
presence at US embassies all around the world and especially
south of the border, particularly Mexico, they have a very
(23:26):
large presence. So any leads that they get, you know,
with someone calling in with a possible ID, they would
be able to track down, even if it was in
another country, they would be able to track these leads down.
And I've worked multiple investigations doing just that using all
(23:47):
the resources that we have at hand, which is substantial,
especially in WNU factor an inner pol and able to
communicate with law enforcement agencies all around the world.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Lets get real or Brant do you really think someone
took dul Say from a playground, a local playground and
took her out of the country, Because I do not.
I don't think that's what happened.
Speaker 9 (24:10):
I don't think it's likely, Nancy. But you can't overlook
anything when you're doing this type of investigation. You follow
the investigations where the leads take you. Even if it's
a long shot, You're going to investigate every possible.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
You don't want to overlook.
Speaker 9 (24:29):
Something or say, well, you know, I'm not going to
spend the time not looking into this because it's highly unlikely.
Some it's highly unlikely, it's not impossible, so every lead
has to be followed.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Duljay's family fights to keep her name and her story alive,
of hoping more witnesses will come forward. The five year
old's mom believes Dulja is still out there and can
be brought home.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Is that true?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Noema Alavez joining us, This is Dulce's mother. Do you
believe in your heart and soul and mind, Dulcey is
still alive?
Speaker 7 (25:10):
Yes, I still feel that she's still out there.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Why do you say that?
Speaker 6 (25:14):
Because there's sometimes that my heart feels so heavy that
I feel that she thinks about us and that she
misses us and inside of me because I know that
she misses us.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
On Kathleen Murphy joining us A veteran trial lawyer, Kathleen Murphy,
There's so many possibilities about what may have happened to Dulcey,
and it is possible that she is alive. It is possible, Kathleen.
Speaker 12 (25:46):
I pray it as Nancy, because the problem that we
have here is a mother's missing her baby. That's insurmountable,
and we have an Amber alert that's been issued in
this case. We have our reward, we have some things
that are being done correctly, we have stories coming out.
Let's find this little girl.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Guys, I want to go to IRV.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Brandt joining us out of Vegas, Senior Inspector US Marshall Service,
International Branch and author of Solo Shot, Curse of the Bluestone,
all of his series on Amazon RV.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Again, thank you for being with us. What do we
need to do now.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
To find out what happened to Dulcy and where if
she is still alive, can we find her?
Speaker 1 (26:22):
What do we do earth?
Speaker 9 (26:23):
Well, Nancy, you're doing just what needs to be done.
You're bringing it to the public's attention, and you're highlighting
this and the more the people see it, the more
the people will call in with possible leads and give
these investigators something to go on. You know probably better
(26:44):
than anyone when you're investigating cases of this age, that
the number one thing you need is new leads. You
can only go over old leads so many times, and
you can only pound that turf so many times. You
need something else, And the only way that's going to
happen is by bringing up the visibility of this case
(27:07):
and having people look at the photos, look at the video,
think about what they were doing at the time and
what they may have seen, and picking up the phone
and calling in with new information and giving these investigators
a chance to do their job too.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Claudia Art is joining US investigative reporter NBC ten Philly
and responsible for the documentary Somebody Knows Something the disappearance
of Dulce streaming on Peacock. It's an incredible documentary. Claudia,
thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Claudia.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Are they saying she was running from two mails or
just running with two males, which doesn't make any sense?
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah, it's unclear.
Speaker 5 (27:48):
The description was that she was seen running behind the
sheds at the same time that there were these two males,
and so the theory from the witnesses was perhaps she
went with those males, and so that was the initial
tip that came in, and that's where that sketch came from. Now,
I will say, and we go through this in our documentary,
though somebody knows something the disappearance of Dulce, which is
(28:09):
streaming on Peacock, The Amber alert was not issued until
twenty nine hours after Dulsa went missing, and the reason
being because some of those witnesses were children, and so
police say they had to take their time interviewing them
and getting you know, what they would consider an accurate
description of what they saw, and do it a little
(28:30):
bit more carefully because there was and I think Noema
can talk a little bit about this, but she was
upset that they hadn't issued an amber alert. Even the
next day, she was begging them please put.
Speaker 7 (28:40):
Out an amber alert.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
And it was twenty nine hours later that they finally
issued that Amber alert. And so, of course, you know,
as the other experts had spoken about by that time,
if she was kidnapped, she.
Speaker 7 (28:50):
Would have been way gone from there.
Speaker 5 (28:53):
So that was one of the issues that came up
in this case and that we go through and speak
to police about why it took so long to issue
that amber alert.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
That is total b s Claudia Vargas twenty nine hours.
I mean, the whole point of an amber alert is
for it to be quick immediate, so people can spot
the child or the kidnappers or the vehicle in which
they are riding as they're getting away to Neweima of
(29:25):
Az joining us. This is Dulce's mother, Neema explained to
me what took so long and what did you do
to try to get police to issue that amber alert.
Speaker 6 (29:38):
They had thought that probably she was with a family
member or I don't know. That's why they had too long,
especially because the witness that gave the sketch was a minor,
and they were saying that they wanted to get more
information in order to put an amberner, but they the
(29:58):
hours were passing by, a lot of people were coming backly.
You show a pro pressure on them that Amberler needs
to go if they can't find her.
Speaker 7 (30:06):
It's a little girl, they.
Speaker 6 (30:07):
Told me, and we were telling them until twenty nine
hour past that we saw I got a message from
my phone about the ambler.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
You know, so you Kathleen Murphy, high profile lawyer joining us.
Does it never end?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Do you remember so many cases that we have covered
where for some reason police refuse to issue the Amber
alert in a timely manner, And this case is just
like these that time is of the essence. Every minute counts.
It's a critical mistake, Nancy.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
You know it. I know it.
Speaker 12 (30:44):
This individual could have been located in this town with
an Amber alert that had been issued within ten thirty
fifty minutes, and I think it's a critical mistake that
was made by this police department.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, you know, I want to
understand something or a brand why to delay in issuing
the Amber alert.
Speaker 9 (31:20):
I understand the frustration, Nancy. The procedures that are in
place that have to be followed, the types of information
that has to be in for certain alerts to be
published to outsiders looking in, it can be extremely frustrating.
(31:41):
I've run into this at Interpol, where you're issuing an
Interpol alert and there's a procedure. I'd want to issue
green notice or red notice or yellow notice just immediately,
but these things have to be reviewed by people higher up,
(32:02):
and they have to meet certain crist Dear Lord.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
In Heaven, just hearing you saying all that is driving
me over the edge. Do I have to say the
name Cherish Perry Winkle. Do we all remember little Cherish?
She was swiped at a giant Walmart superstore in Florida.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Long story short. By the time police interviewed and interviewed
and interviewed the mom, Rain.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Convinced that somehow this was part of a custody to
sput which it was not. They didn't issue the Amber
alert in time. She could have totally been saved. And
the whole time the perps vehicle, the van in which
he raped and sodomized and murdered Little Cherish, was.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Sitting right outside of the parking lot.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
In fact, that vehicle was reported immediately after the Amber
alert was finally issued. Cherish Periwingle's life could have been safe.
And I'm hearing you go on and on and on.
No offense or a brand, but really you have to
interview all the children before you issue an Amber alert.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
My rear and herv speaks in truth. Man.
Speaker 9 (33:24):
Yes, Nancy, I understand your outrage and I'm telling you
right now, I've felt it as an investigator, and sometimes,
you know, an investigation, they start looking in the wrong direction,
just like you said, maybe you're looking for a family
member when it wasn't a family member, and it can
(33:45):
be a mistake, and it can be a critical mistake
because time is of the essence in cases like this,
and action needs to be immediate, and when it's not,
the case goes cold.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Five year old Dutch Maria Alvarez mysteriously vanishes from a
playground and bridged in New Jersey while mommy is only
yards away. Dulce's family pleads with the public to help.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Still pleading, the mom is joining us today with family
friend begging for your help. There is a fifty two
thousand dollar reward and the search for five year old Dulce.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
I want to go through one more time.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
The fact that an amber alert was not issued immediately,
major fail.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
But what can we do now?
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Claudia Varges joining US investigative reporter NBC ten Philly and
creator of Somebody Knows Something The Disappearance of Dulce. It's
an incredible documentary that is streaming on Peacock right now.
Where does it stand right now, Claudia, what is being done?
I've seen an age progression photo of Dulce on NICKMA
(35:00):
National Center Missing Emploited Children. But tell me what is
being done and what can we do to help bring
Dulce home.
Speaker 7 (35:07):
Yeah, I was just gonna mention the age progression.
Speaker 5 (35:10):
So Dulce is now ten years old, and with the
age progression composite ideas that people might recognize her, you know,
she's a little older now, looking a little different. And
so police say they're still investigating this. After that new
age progression sketch was released, they received about a dozen tips. Unfortunately,
none of them really panned out.
Speaker 7 (35:30):
Obviously, we still don't have Dulsay home.
Speaker 5 (35:33):
But they are still looking into any tips that come
in and they say they're actively investigating it. But it's
really going to take somebody. And as their documentary says,
somebody knows something. So whoever knows something, they just need
that one clue, that one tip that's going to break
the case and bring Dulsay home.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
You know a lot of people have claimed rewards don't work.
I disagree. I think they do work if the right
person hears about the reward. A fifty two thousand dollars
reward in the search for Dulce, you know to your
brandt joining US former US Marshall Service and DOJ Department
of Justice.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
The FBI is in the case. What does that mean, Nancy?
Speaker 9 (36:12):
That means the case has expanded, that they consider it
a kidnapping, not just a disappearance.
Speaker 10 (36:20):
I know.
Speaker 9 (36:22):
Local law enforcement, of course searched the area extensively, going
through the woods, putting divers in the river, bringing in
a helicopter the search if the child is lost, But
when the child is believed to be abducted, the FBI
has a missing Person's unit and they will be brought
(36:43):
in for the case, and it expands the amount of
resources that investigators have.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Dulcie's family has not given up hope she will be
brought home alive. Noweima Alavez, this is Dulce's mother. How
has this affected you and your family? I don't know
how you put one foot in front of the other.
You are so much stronger than I could be. Tell
(37:12):
me what is going through your mind every night when
you fall asleep.
Speaker 6 (37:16):
Well, since that day, my family hasn't been the same.
We doom celebrate parties or our birthdays or festivals becomes
it's not the same without her, because I remember last
Christmas we were with her. She was happy, we were
we're family, we were all together, and then the first
(37:39):
Christmas came in it was like, I don't know, I
was sad because we just felt incomplete.
Speaker 7 (37:48):
And every day is like I sometimes I get scared.
Speaker 6 (37:52):
I get anxiety sometimes taking out my kids because sometimes
I'm scared that I'm.
Speaker 7 (37:59):
Gonna lose one of them again. I don't know, it
did mean anxiety.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
You know, doctor Chloe Carmichael. If even one twin is
away at night or at supper time, there's just this
big empty hole. You know, there's the empty chair at
the table, There's this huge presence that's missing. I just
(38:28):
can't imagine what Dulce's mother is living through, plus having
people attacking her claiming it's her fault because she was
in the car helping with homework.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yes, yes, I wish she had not been in the car.
Was that wrong?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yes it was wrong for Pete's sake, But that does
not mean this is her fault. The person that took Dulce,
it's their fault. How to moms and dads move forward
or do they ever move forward.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
I don't know that I could ever move forward.
Speaker 13 (39:04):
As was just stated, there's naturally anxiety about something like
this ever happening again. And of course, the point of
my book Nervous Energy Harness the Power of your anxiety,
is that the healthy function of anxiety is to stimulate
preparation behaviors. So parents who are anxious about a child abduction,
for example, would definitely want to take this as a
(39:29):
cautionary tale when it comes to keeping eyes on your children,
for example, at a playground, and other ways that you
can think about channeling that anxiety into protective behaviors.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
I'm just thinking what can be done for Noeima who
is missing her child Dulcay. Every day take a look
at Dulcey. If you know or think you know anything
about her disappearance, please dial toll free eight hundred two
two five five three two four again, over fifty thousand
(40:05):
dollars in reward.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
We wait for justice. Two unfold.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Nancy Grace signing off, Goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
A distraught mother says, who snatched my girl? Just five
from the playground? Where is Dulce? Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace.
This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Five year old Dulce Maria Alparez mysteriously vanishes from a
playground and bridged in New Jersey while mommy is only
yards away. Dulce's family pleads with the public to help.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Joining us tonight is Dulce's mother begging for help? How
does a little girl get snatched from the playground basically
under mommy's nose? This is not the first time a
child has been snatched from a playground? Can witnesses be believed?
Where is Dulce? Everyone? I want to give you right
(00:57):
off the top, a tip line, a toll free tip line,
and a search for Dulce one eight hundred two two
five five three two four. There is a fifty two
thousand dollar reward for information leading to the discovery of
what happened to this five year old beautiful little girl.
Repeat eight hundred two two five five three two four.
(01:21):
Joining me an all star panel to make sense of
what we know regarding Dulce's disappearance, including Dulce's mother. But
first I'm going to go to a special guest joining
us who has been on the case since the beginning.
Many people say the story, but this is not a story.
(01:42):
This is a real family suffering real pain without their daughter.
To all of you moms and dads, grandparents out there,
a five year old little girl snatched from a public playground.
Straight out to Cloria Vargas, investigative reporter in let me
see Philly, who is the star of a documentary. Somebody
(02:07):
knows something the disappearance of Dulce, and it's streaming on Peacock. Claudia,
thank you for being with us. Tell me what you
understand happened the day that Dulce goes missing.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Right, Well, Dulce had just gotten out of school that
day and her and her little brother were asking mom,
you know, they wanted to go to the playground like
any little kid, And so that afternoon they headed off
to their local playground.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
Mom was sitting in the car and they went with technically,
it's Dulsa's aunt, it's noema, who's the mom. Her little sister,
who was actually closer in age to dulcet So Camilla,
who is Dulsa's aunt, was doing her homework in the car.
Mom was sitting there as well, playing a lottery scratch
off while the kids were kind of in her line
(02:54):
of view, but you know, the playground is a little
further out.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
They're playing.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
All of a sudden, Mom looks up, doesn't see them,
so she goes to check on them and finds Dulsa's
little brother, three year old Manuel, crying and dul says,
nowhere to be found. So immediately Mom starts looking around.
She's thinking, dul says, playing hide and seek. After about
forty minutes, realizes I can't find my daughter. So that's
(03:19):
when she places the nine to one one call.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Guys joining me.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
In addition to Claudia Vargus, is Dulcey's mother, Dulce Maria
no Maya Olavez nameya, thank you for being with us.
This is Dulcey's mother, Noema. So many times since Dulce
went missing, you have been attacked. You have been attacked
(03:45):
because you were sitting in the car helping with homework.
And you know what, I've done it myself, I who
have literally written a book including child safety at playgrounds.
I had to bring one of my twins back to
the car. She wanted bottled water. Then that was in
(04:06):
the cooler. My daughter was red in the face and flushed,
so we go back to the car. It was about,
oh gosh, thirty forty yards from my son.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I could see him.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I could see him going up the slide and coming down,
and I opened up the trunk of the car. I
couldn't see him at that time. I got out of
the water, I gave it to my daughter, I shut
the trunk, I got something out side of the car,
and we walked back to where my son was. I've
done it more than once because I believed I could
(04:43):
see him. You were not that far away from Dulce.
Your attention, true was diverted, but you were not that
far away from Dulce. You could see her and her
little brother. Manny no way, But tell me what happened
(05:04):
the day your five year old daughter vanished.
Speaker 6 (05:07):
It was a Monday, September sixteen. I remember that I
wasn't working at that time. My mom wasn't working either.
She had her day off and the kids were getting
ready to go to school. So I want to go
get coffee and donuts, fugging donuts, And while gul said
(05:31):
was getting ready, she already knew that I was going
to get donuts. And I went and I was coming,
I was coming back and I was I was about
I ran over someone and I was getting delayed. So
as soon as I got home, Hu said was already
on the bus and my mom had told me that
(05:52):
she was crying because she didn't want to get on
the bus and my mom told her she has to
go in the bus.
Speaker 7 (05:58):
She has to go to school.
Speaker 6 (06:01):
My mom said that she returned back before she went
inside the US.
Speaker 7 (06:06):
She came in, went and talked my mom and then
she left.
Speaker 6 (06:10):
After that, we went to mynu's appointment and we had
went out to eat. After that, we had came home.
It was already time for the kids to come home.
So I had went to Luisa's post up with her
dusing Kamila get off and I went and got them off.
(06:30):
We got home and Dulca tells me they want to go.
They wanted to go play. Then I told them okay,
but it was hot that day, and then I just
didn't want her to go no more, and I told
her we're not going to go no more and then
I still remember that she started crying. She started jumping
up and down. Then she said, I want to go.
(06:52):
She said, I want to go to the park. You
said we were going, and now you're saying no, and
as I because I told her that we were going
to go, but we.
Speaker 7 (07:05):
Then I was telling her that we weren't going to
go on more.
Speaker 6 (07:07):
But then at the end we did win and we
were going to the park again, like it was hot.
I asked them if they wanted ice cream, and they
said yes. We stopped and ice cream shop, but as
soon as I noticed that ice cream shop was close,
and so we went to a nearby gas station and
(07:27):
that's where the kids were getting their ice cream and
they got their ice cream and I got a lot
of lottery ticket.
Speaker 7 (07:40):
After there, we went to the park.
Speaker 6 (07:43):
As soon as we got down, we got in the park,
Luisa started opening her ice cream manual two and they
were so excited that they were already they wanted to
get down from the park. I told him to wait,
but they were already they were excited. I'm like, okay,
you guys can go. And my Cameilla. At that time,
she was doing bad at school and I had a
(08:05):
helper with her homework so she could get better, and
I told her to stay in the car and until
she finishes homework, and I stayed with her inside the
car and I led my two kids, Manuo and Blusa
Maria go play in the playground. But I could see
the playground where was I parked at, But the only
(08:25):
thing I couldn't see was the swings.
Speaker 7 (08:28):
And my mom.
Speaker 6 (08:29):
I thought they needed my help to get in the
swings in order for me to push them.
Speaker 7 (08:35):
So they were in the slide and I was scratching
a lot of ticket.
Speaker 6 (08:42):
I put my head down and I saw last thing
I saw was Lousemanuo going down for the slide. And
when I was in the lottery ticket, then I had
received a message and just a few minutes I really
don't remember how many minutes were they When I looked
(09:02):
my head up, I didn't sell them no more. I
didn't tell them Lusa or Manum. That's when I had
told Amilive she could go track, and she did. She went,
but she only came with Manu and I told her
worst loosen and she told me she couldn't find her.
(09:24):
So I got down and went checked on myself and
there was no one at the park except some girls
in the basketball court, and I was looking for her,
screaming her name, and it was weird to me at first,
like why is she coming out? She never does this. Then,
(09:45):
at first, the first thing I came to mom like
she's probably playing hide and seek. She just wanted to play.
So I started looking for her everywhere and I couldn't
find her player, So I went behind some shots that
they were there. As soon as I went back there,
I didn't seen nothing, and I seen a trash can, like,
probably she's inside the trash can hiding.
Speaker 7 (10:08):
As soon I.
Speaker 6 (10:09):
Was already back at the buildings, I was already mad,
like she's already playing too hard that I didn't want
to think the worst at that time. I just wanted
to think that she was around and that she was
paying minutes past. But I went around the park two
(10:30):
times and I couldn't find her. And that's when I
had called the police, and I was on the phone
with them until they got there. And they got there,
they closed the park, a lot of ambulance, firefighters came, police.
Speaker 7 (10:47):
Everyone started going inside the woods.
Speaker 6 (10:50):
They started searching, like over two weeks in the park.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace Guys.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Joining us is Dulsein, Maria's mother describing what happened when
her little five year old girl is kidnapped. Snatched from
a park. Many detectives called it an old school kidnapping.
Listen to our friend, doctor Phil.
Speaker 6 (11:27):
I'll just walked towards the park and I found myself crying,
just standing there.
Speaker 7 (11:32):
I thought that she was playing hide and seek.
Speaker 6 (11:34):
I didn't want to believe that somebody took her.
Speaker 7 (11:37):
You just pointed behind some building.
Speaker 6 (11:40):
I looked behind these buildings and.
Speaker 7 (11:43):
I couldn't find her.
Speaker 6 (11:44):
I came down the path looking for her, you knowing
her name, and she wasn't an answering.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
The ice cream video is of Dulce Maria going into
a little store the day she disappears. The day she disappears,
Brenda Trinidad joining us, a very close family friend and advocate. Brenda,
thank you for being with us and helping Naima through this.
(12:11):
That's how quickly everything happened. The ice cream hadn't even
melted yet. They get the ice cream at the little store,
they go to the playground. Mom is in the car
helping with homework. She sees Manny crying and goes out there.
She thinks he dropped his ice cream. The ice cream
hadn't even melted yet, Brenda, that's how quickly everything occurred.
Speaker 7 (12:34):
Yes, I agree with you, Nancy on that.
Speaker 8 (12:37):
Strangely, it seems like maybe the abductor was already lurking
in the park, because you can't be a rookie and
just take a child from apart that you necessarily don't
know the ends or the outside the park. That is
a real complicated part to come in and a real
complicated part to get out, and your chances of getting
caught with a child in the car are very extremely
(12:59):
high someone who doesn't know how to case area.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
You know what's interesting, Brenda, trendid Dad. I write about
that in my book, Don't be a victim. When you're
taking your children to playgrounds or parks, Exactly what Noeima
did is what you should do. I don't mean sitting
in the car park. I mean taking a child to
a park where there is very limited in and out.
(13:25):
In other words, go to a playground or a park
that has a fence around it, and then you position
yourself either with your child or at that opening where
someone would have to go in and out, not an
open playground where there's a three hundred and sixty degree
entry and exit access. Now, what do you mean, Brenda
when you say this is a very difficult park for
(13:48):
an abduct or a kidnapped a kid after to get
in and out.
Speaker 8 (13:52):
Well, Nancy, you have many ways to get inside the park,
and then two of the entrance ways are located besides
two schools, So you have two schools that are right
in front of where the park where she went missing.
So you have Cherry Elementary schools at West Avenue High
School I'm sorry, West Avenue School, and then you have
(14:13):
Bristian High School, which both are on each different ends
of a road, So you have Burt Avenue, you have
West Avenue School, and then on Scholastic Drive you have
the Britian High School. Now, if you leave from there,
you're possibly going to be caught on camera, and one
of the other exits you go in front of a
zoo as well, and.
Speaker 7 (14:32):
Courthouses and everything like that.
Speaker 8 (14:35):
So it's kind of strange to know that they were
able to leave with a child in broad daylight and
not be caught in any of the cameras nearby.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
What happened to Dulce just five years old, joining me IRV. Brandt,
former US Marshall Service and author of a series of
books on Amazon about Jack Solo. One being Flying Solo
Top of the World, orv thank you so much for
being with US. Police immediately flood the area. They're searching
(15:07):
high and low. This has been referred to as a
quote old school kidnapping. What does that mean?
Speaker 9 (15:14):
Well, Nancy, what they're mean by old school is just
snatching a kid up from a park, from out in
front of a school, or from a parking lot of
What immediately comes to your mind is a van coming
by with a sliding door and someone snatches it up
a kid and drives away. So I believe that's what
(15:35):
the police are talking about when they talk about old school.
It was a snatching graph.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Well, you heard Dolce's mother Neueima describing and her friend
Brenda Trinidad, who's helping, describing that this was a predator's dream. Okay,
because they're describing the fact that the predator had to
already be in there based on the ends and outs,
(16:02):
the entrances and exits of the playground. It makes perfect sense,
of Brandt because you've got multiple schools around there. This
is a kid's playground. It's not like it's an out
of the way place. This was exactly where a predator
would go to snatch a little girl.
Speaker 9 (16:18):
I agree, Nancy, and I listened to the mother and
how she described it, and I think the same thing.
You could be in that park. That park is huge,
it has schools, it has a zoo, it has a playground,
and you could be in there without drawing notice, and
you could be, as you said, lurking around and looking
(16:42):
for an opportunity to do just what had happened, is
to snatch a kid up and drive off, and before
anybody realizes what has happened, that person would be gone.
The police wouldn't have a chance to and that park
is massive, and they wouldn't have a chance to lock
(17:03):
down the area. And so once you're out of the park,
you could be anywhere in the city or the state
before the police really had a chance to start their
investigation and start a search.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Guys, let's listen to more of than nine on one call.
Speaker 10 (17:19):
Okay, so you're at the Basabell course behind high school here, Okay,
and what was she she left wearing?
Speaker 11 (17:31):
She was wearing I remember what clothes she was wearing.
But she was wearing. I just remember what fans she
was wearing, like a slowery fans and some heels, some
my heels.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Back to mom Nuaima olive us joining us Neweima. Thank
you again for telling your story. And I know it's
painful to relive what happened when you got to little brother.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
What did Manny say?
Speaker 7 (18:03):
Manuel?
Speaker 6 (18:04):
At that time, he was non verbal, he had speech
delay at three years old. And I asked him and
all he could say was just point behind the buildings,
and said that's all he could said, just point behind
the buildings because he wasn't talking.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
And I've seen the video of you showing exactly where
you went behind the buildings. Tell me what you did
after man was pointed behind the buildings?
Speaker 1 (18:31):
What did you do?
Speaker 7 (18:32):
I was going.
Speaker 6 (18:33):
Behind the buildings searching for a nice because Manuel said
that she had went over there, and I was looking
everywhere behind the buildings instead of trash cans, and I
couldn't find her. I was screaming her name, and that's
when I noticed that I couldn't find her.
Speaker 10 (18:54):
Okay, my name fan line, which I here to the police. Okay,
and you asi correct.
Speaker 11 (19:00):
Yes, all right, Hello ma'am Hello, did you see which
direction your child went? You know, we were in the car.
She came down with my son. They were running for
the park and then I mean sister, we came down.
When we got here at the park, she was in years.
They said, my son was just trying with issume because
(19:23):
somebody I'm through his issume in the four and my
daughter just run away.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Over thirty police officers searched the surrounding areas, but Dulja
has seemingly disappeared into thin air. New Jersey Police released
a sketch of a possible witness who may be able
to crack open Dulce's case.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Where is five year old Dulce? Joining us her mom
asking for your help. I want to give you the
toll free tip line again. Eight hundred two two five
five three two four repeat eight hundred two two five
five three two four. There was a fifty two thousand
dollars reward in the search for Dulce. Straight out to
(20:04):
Kathleen Murphy joining us from Triangle Divorce Lawyers dot com,
who has handled an investigative. So many children that go missing,
typically in custodial situations, Kathleen Murphy, that is not the
case here. Dad at the time was out of the country.
He did not have anything to do with this. Way
(20:27):
in on your thoughts about the disappearance.
Speaker 12 (20:29):
I'm concerned that it is a stranger abduction. It seems
also that the child who is remaining would have said
something that they saw somebody that they knew, or was
able to communicate that they saw somebody knew.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
But what do we learn witnesses say at this scene. Listen,
when we.
Speaker 11 (20:46):
Came in and looked for her, we were looking everywhere.
Speaker 6 (20:48):
For her, and then was at the basketball court with
her daughter that there was two black males that took her.
Speaker 13 (20:53):
Son's ice cream and threw it on the ground and
left with her daughter.
Speaker 7 (20:58):
Okay, well, we have the officers.
Speaker 10 (21:00):
To pass works from Mayor Aigan.
Speaker 11 (21:02):
Are you on, Mayor Aikin, I already have an officer here. Okay,
all right, well speak with the police.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Mail okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Out to Claudia Vargas joining US investigative reporter or NBC
ten Philly, who has also created the documentary Somebody Knows
something the disappearance of Dulcey. Claudia, again, thank you for
being with us. So at the time, witnesses say two mails,
take Manuel's ice cream, throw it down and snatch Dulceay,
(21:36):
what if anything have you learned about those witness statements.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
Yeah, so we asked police about that, and if you'll
hear the beginning of the nine to one call, Noema
actually describes that she was told it was a Hispanic
mail and a blackmail. So the nine one one operator
repeated it a little differently, but the initial witness description
was a Hispanic mail and a blackmail.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
What we know is that police did.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
Eventually identify who they believed the blackmail and data determined
he was not involved in any kidnapping or anything. They
have not yet identified a Hispanic mail that matches that description,
and that's the composite sketch that was released to the public,
and you guys had that up a little while ago,
so that person still has not been identified to this day,
(22:19):
but that's essentially what the witness has described, and based
on those witness descriptions, they will to come up with
that sketch. And to this day, please say there's still
interested in speaking to that man.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
A fifty two thousand dollars reward is on the line
fifty two thousand dollars in information related to the disappearance
of Dulce. You know, IRV Brandt, a former US Marshalls
Service and now author. You have looked for people all
around the world successfully, I might add, So you've seen
(22:52):
the sketch, You've heard what happened according to witnesses, and
these are This is not just Mommy saying this. These
are witness is there on the scene. What do you
make of it?
Speaker 9 (23:04):
Well, Nancy, you use every resource that you have available
and within the Department of Justice. I know the FBI
is involved in the case, and the FBI has a
presence at US embassies all around the world and especially
south of the border, particularly Mexico, they have a very
(23:26):
large presence. So any leads that they get, you know,
with someone calling in with a possible ID, they would
be able to track down, even if it was in
another country, they would be able to track these leads down.
And I've worked multiple investigations doing just that using all
(23:47):
the resources that we have at hand, which is substantial,
especially in WNU factor an inner pol and able to
communicate with law enforcement agencies all around the world.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Lets get real or Brant do you really think someone
took dul Say from a playground, a local playground and
took her out of the country, Because I do not.
I don't think that's what happened.
Speaker 9 (24:10):
I don't think it's likely, Nancy. But you can't overlook
anything when you're doing this type of investigation. You follow
the investigations where the leads take you. Even if it's
a long shot, You're going to investigate every possible.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
You don't want to overlook.
Speaker 9 (24:29):
Something or say, well, you know, I'm not going to
spend the time not looking into this because it's highly unlikely.
Some it's highly unlikely, it's not impossible, so every lead
has to be followed.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Duljay's family fights to keep her name and her story alive,
of hoping more witnesses will come forward. The five year
old's mom believes Dulja is still out there and can
be brought home.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Is that true?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Noema Alavez joining us, This is Dulce's mother. Do you
believe in your heart and soul and mind, Dulcey is
still alive?
Speaker 7 (25:10):
Yes, I still feel that she's still out there.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Why do you say that?
Speaker 6 (25:14):
Because there's sometimes that my heart feels so heavy that
I feel that she thinks about us and that she
misses us and inside of me because I know that
she misses us.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
On Kathleen Murphy joining us A veteran trial lawyer, Kathleen Murphy,
There's so many possibilities about what may have happened to Dulcey,
and it is possible that she is alive. It is possible, Kathleen.
Speaker 12 (25:46):
I pray it as Nancy, because the problem that we
have here is a mother's missing her baby. That's insurmountable,
and we have an Amber alert that's been issued in
this case. We have our reward, we have some things
that are being done correctly, we have stories coming out.
Let's find this little girl.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Guys, I want to go to IRV.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Brandt joining us out of Vegas, Senior Inspector US Marshall Service,
International Branch and author of Solo Shot, Curse of the Bluestone,
all of his series on Amazon RV.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Again, thank you for being with us. What do we
need to do now.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
To find out what happened to Dulcy and where if
she is still alive, can we find her?
Speaker 1 (26:22):
What do we do earth?
Speaker 9 (26:23):
Well, Nancy, you're doing just what needs to be done.
You're bringing it to the public's attention, and you're highlighting
this and the more the people see it, the more
the people will call in with possible leads and give
these investigators something to go on. You know probably better
(26:44):
than anyone when you're investigating cases of this age, that
the number one thing you need is new leads. You
can only go over old leads so many times, and
you can only pound that turf so many times. You
need something else, And the only way that's going to
happen is by bringing up the visibility of this case
(27:07):
and having people look at the photos, look at the video,
think about what they were doing at the time and
what they may have seen, and picking up the phone
and calling in with new information and giving these investigators
a chance to do their job too.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Claudia Art is joining US investigative reporter NBC ten Philly
and responsible for the documentary Somebody Knows Something the disappearance
of Dulce streaming on Peacock. It's an incredible documentary. Claudia,
thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Claudia.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Are they saying she was running from two mails or
just running with two males, which doesn't make any sense?
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah, it's unclear.
Speaker 5 (27:48):
The description was that she was seen running behind the
sheds at the same time that there were these two males,
and so the theory from the witnesses was perhaps she
went with those males, and so that was the initial
tip that came in, and that's where that sketch came from. Now,
I will say, and we go through this in our documentary,
though somebody knows something the disappearance of Dulce, which is
(28:09):
streaming on Peacock, The Amber alert was not issued until
twenty nine hours after Dulsa went missing, and the reason
being because some of those witnesses were children, and so
police say they had to take their time interviewing them
and getting you know, what they would consider an accurate
description of what they saw, and do it a little
(28:30):
bit more carefully because there was and I think Noema
can talk a little bit about this, but she was
upset that they hadn't issued an amber alert. Even the
next day, she was begging them please put.
Speaker 7 (28:40):
Out an amber alert.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
And it was twenty nine hours later that they finally
issued that Amber alert. And so, of course, you know,
as the other experts had spoken about by that time,
if she was kidnapped, she.
Speaker 7 (28:50):
Would have been way gone from there.
Speaker 5 (28:53):
So that was one of the issues that came up
in this case and that we go through and speak
to police about why it took so long to issue
that amber alert.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
That is total b s Claudia Vargas twenty nine hours.
I mean, the whole point of an amber alert is
for it to be quick immediate, so people can spot
the child or the kidnappers or the vehicle in which
they are riding as they're getting away to Neweima of
(29:25):
Az joining us. This is Dulce's mother, Neema explained to
me what took so long and what did you do
to try to get police to issue that amber alert.
Speaker 6 (29:38):
They had thought that probably she was with a family
member or I don't know. That's why they had too long,
especially because the witness that gave the sketch was a minor,
and they were saying that they wanted to get more
information in order to put an amberner, but they the
(29:58):
hours were passing by, a lot of people were coming backly.
You show a pro pressure on them that Amberler needs
to go if they can't find her.
Speaker 7 (30:06):
It's a little girl, they.
Speaker 6 (30:07):
Told me, and we were telling them until twenty nine
hour past that we saw I got a message from
my phone about the ambler.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
You know, so you Kathleen Murphy, high profile lawyer joining us.
Does it never end?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Do you remember so many cases that we have covered
where for some reason police refuse to issue the Amber
alert in a timely manner, And this case is just
like these that time is of the essence. Every minute counts.
It's a critical mistake, Nancy.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
You know it. I know it.
Speaker 12 (30:44):
This individual could have been located in this town with
an Amber alert that had been issued within ten thirty
fifty minutes, and I think it's a critical mistake that
was made by this police department.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, you know, I want to
understand something or a brand why to delay in issuing
the Amber alert.
Speaker 9 (31:20):
I understand the frustration, Nancy. The procedures that are in
place that have to be followed, the types of information
that has to be in for certain alerts to be
published to outsiders looking in, it can be extremely frustrating.
(31:41):
I've run into this at Interpol, where you're issuing an
Interpol alert and there's a procedure. I'd want to issue
green notice or red notice or yellow notice just immediately,
but these things have to be reviewed by people higher up,
(32:02):
and they have to meet certain crist Dear Lord.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
In Heaven, just hearing you saying all that is driving
me over the edge. Do I have to say the
name Cherish Perry Winkle. Do we all remember little Cherish?
She was swiped at a giant Walmart superstore in Florida.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Long story short. By the time police interviewed and interviewed
and interviewed the mom, Rain.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Convinced that somehow this was part of a custody to
sput which it was not. They didn't issue the Amber
alert in time. She could have totally been saved. And
the whole time the perps vehicle, the van in which
he raped and sodomized and murdered Little Cherish, was.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Sitting right outside of the parking lot.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
In fact, that vehicle was reported immediately after the Amber
alert was finally issued. Cherish Periwingle's life could have been safe.
And I'm hearing you go on and on and on.
No offense or a brand, but really you have to
interview all the children before you issue an Amber alert.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
My rear and herv speaks in truth. Man.
Speaker 9 (33:24):
Yes, Nancy, I understand your outrage and I'm telling you
right now, I've felt it as an investigator, and sometimes,
you know, an investigation, they start looking in the wrong direction,
just like you said, maybe you're looking for a family
member when it wasn't a family member, and it can
(33:45):
be a mistake, and it can be a critical mistake
because time is of the essence in cases like this,
and action needs to be immediate, and when it's not,
the case goes cold.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
Five year old Dutch Maria Alvarez mysteriously vanishes from a
playground and bridged in New Jersey while mommy is only
yards away. Dulce's family pleads with the public to help.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Still pleading, the mom is joining us today with family
friend begging for your help. There is a fifty two
thousand dollar reward and the search for five year old Dulce.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
I want to go through one more time.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
The fact that an amber alert was not issued immediately,
major fail.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
But what can we do now?
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Claudia Varges joining US investigative reporter NBC ten Philly and
creator of Somebody Knows Something The Disappearance of Dulce. It's
an incredible documentary that is streaming on Peacock right now.
Where does it stand right now, Claudia, what is being done?
I've seen an age progression photo of Dulce on NICKMA
(35:00):
National Center Missing Emploited Children. But tell me what is
being done and what can we do to help bring
Dulce home.
Speaker 7 (35:07):
Yeah, I was just gonna mention the age progression.
Speaker 5 (35:10):
So Dulce is now ten years old, and with the
age progression composite ideas that people might recognize her, you know,
she's a little older now, looking a little different. And
so police say they're still investigating this. After that new
age progression sketch was released, they received about a dozen tips. Unfortunately,
none of them really panned out.
Speaker 7 (35:30):
Obviously, we still don't have Dulsay home.
Speaker 5 (35:33):
But they are still looking into any tips that come
in and they say they're actively investigating it. But it's
really going to take somebody. And as their documentary says,
somebody knows something. So whoever knows something, they just need
that one clue, that one tip that's going to break
the case and bring Dulsay home.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
You know a lot of people have claimed rewards don't work.
I disagree. I think they do work if the right
person hears about the reward. A fifty two thousand dollars
reward in the search for Dulce, you know to your
brandt joining US former US Marshall Service and DOJ Department
of Justice.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
The FBI is in the case. What does that mean, Nancy?
Speaker 9 (36:12):
That means the case has expanded, that they consider it
a kidnapping, not just a disappearance.
Speaker 10 (36:20):
I know.
Speaker 9 (36:22):
Local law enforcement, of course searched the area extensively, going
through the woods, putting divers in the river, bringing in
a helicopter the search if the child is lost, But
when the child is believed to be abducted, the FBI
has a missing Person's unit and they will be brought
(36:43):
in for the case, and it expands the amount of
resources that investigators have.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Dulcie's family has not given up hope she will be
brought home alive. Noweima Alavez, this is Dulce's mother. How
has this affected you and your family? I don't know
how you put one foot in front of the other.
You are so much stronger than I could be. Tell
(37:12):
me what is going through your mind every night when
you fall asleep.
Speaker 6 (37:16):
Well, since that day, my family hasn't been the same.
We doom celebrate parties or our birthdays or festivals becomes
it's not the same without her, because I remember last
Christmas we were with her. She was happy, we were
we're family, we were all together, and then the first
(37:39):
Christmas came in it was like, I don't know, I
was sad because we just felt incomplete.
Speaker 7 (37:48):
And every day is like I sometimes I get scared.
Speaker 6 (37:52):
I get anxiety sometimes taking out my kids because sometimes
I'm scared that I'm.
Speaker 7 (37:59):
Gonna lose one of them again. I don't know, it
did mean anxiety.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
You know, doctor Chloe Carmichael. If even one twin is
away at night or at supper time, there's just this
big empty hole. You know, there's the empty chair at
the table, There's this huge presence that's missing. I just
(38:28):
can't imagine what Dulce's mother is living through, plus having
people attacking her claiming it's her fault because she was
in the car helping with homework.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yes, yes, I wish she had not been in the car.
Was that wrong?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yes it was wrong for Pete's sake, But that does
not mean this is her fault. The person that took Dulce,
it's their fault. How to moms and dads move forward
or do they ever move forward.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
I don't know that I could ever move forward.
Speaker 13 (39:04):
As was just stated, there's naturally anxiety about something like
this ever happening again. And of course, the point of
my book Nervous Energy Harness the Power of your anxiety,
is that the healthy function of anxiety is to stimulate
preparation behaviors. So parents who are anxious about a child abduction,
for example, would definitely want to take this as a
(39:29):
cautionary tale when it comes to keeping eyes on your children,
for example, at a playground, and other ways that you
can think about channeling that anxiety into protective behaviors.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
I'm just thinking what can be done for Noeima who
is missing her child Dulcay. Every day take a look
at Dulcey. If you know or think you know anything
about her disappearance, please dial toll free eight hundred two
two five five three two four again, over fifty thousand
(40:05):
dollars in reward.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
We wait for justice. Two unfold.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Nancy Grace signing off, Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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