September 30, 2024 • 40 mins
Carly Gregg is a good student but has had trouble at school. She briefly attends an alternative school after being caught with a knife. Her parents revoke her phone privileges after she breaks their social media rules. Friends grow concerned when they discover Carly has a burner phone and catch her smoking marijuana.
One friend distracts Carly while another informs her mother. Ashley Smylie confronts Carly after school, warning her that her room will be searched when they get home.
Ashley heads to Carly’s room while Carly takes the dogs out. Almost immediately, Ashley finds a box of THC vape pens. She takes the box to her bedroom before returning to continue the search. Carly comes back inside, checks on her mother’s location, and quietly heads to her parents' room. She lifts the mattress and retrieves her mother’s .357 Magnum pistol.
Immediately after the shooting, Carly uses her mother’s phone to text Heath Smylie, “You almost home honey?” Smylie replies that he’ll be home in about an hour. Carly then texts six friends, saying she has an emergency and needs someone to come over. One friend offers to call 911, but Carly declines.
Eventually, a friend agrees to come. When Carly answers the door, she asks the girl, “Are you squeamish around dead bodies?” and then leads her to her mother’s body in the bedroom.
Carly tells her shocked friend, “I put three in my mom, and I have three more waiting for my stepdad when he gets home.” She says he’ll arrive soon and asks the friend to wait in the backyard. Carly opens the garage door, goes back inside, and waits for Heath Smylie. The moment he opens the door, Carly fires at him. Smylie grabs the gun, and Carly fires two more shots during their struggle.
Smylie overpowers her, and Carly runs through the backyard, fleeing the home.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Kathryn White Newman - Rankin County Assistant District Attorney; IG: www.instagram.com/bramlett_da/ FB: www.facebook.com/kathryn.white.718
- Kevin Camp - Criminal Defense Attorney and Lead Attorney at Camp Law Firm; Attorney for Carly Gregg, Retired JAG Officer from the Mississippi National Guard (with a distinguished military and legal career);FB: https://www.facebook.com/kevin.camp.39
- Caryn Stark - Psychologist, renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych, FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice
- Dr. William Morrone - Medical Examiner, Toxicologist, Pathologist, and Opioid Treatment Expert; Author: “American Narcan: Naloxone & Heroin-Fentanyl Associated Mortality”
- Lauren Conlin - Co-Host of Primetime Crime on YouTube; X: @Conlin_Lauren, Instagram- @LaurenEmilyConlin, YouTube: @PopCrimeTV
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A teen girl just fourteen
years old, Curly Greg reportedly shoots mommy in the face
and then texts her friends to come see a dead body.
(00:22):
Let that sink ken. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This
is Crime Stories.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
A fifteen year old Mississippi high school student self reported
math and history nerd. Loves her pets and her mother.
Is she also a killer?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Maybe? Fifteen? Now fourteen at the time mommy gets shot
in the face. But hold on, Let's don't put the
car before the horse. Let's take a listen to that
nine one one call. I love nothing better except when
the defendant takes to stand love that the most. Nothing
better than a nine to one one call. Listen.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Okay, sir, where is your where's your?
Speaker 5 (01:15):
Why that on the bore of my daughter stepdaughter room?
She's on the poor in your stepdaughter's room. What do
I say? Act Ashley? Tie her? Sir? I speak with me? Okay?
(01:43):
Can you go out? Can go outside the house and speak? Coming?
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
That gut wrenching nine one one call of Mommy's husband
finding her in the floor, shot in the face, No
matter how many times I listen to a nine one
one call. When I hear the person calling in it,
(02:17):
it's almost disabling for the moment to hear that raw
pain in their voice. What more can we learn?
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Listen, that's that's mom, Yeah, yeah, under Mom and dad,
I forgot it?
Speaker 5 (02:41):
Okay and dad.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Dad's got to throw on the shoulder. He's already in
the ambush.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Okay. So join me in all star panel that makes
sense of what we know right now. Lauren Colin, first
to you, co host Primetime Crime on YouTube. Lauren, who
found Mommy?
Speaker 6 (02:59):
He smile found his wife Ashley smiling, and that is
Carly Greg's stepfather.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
So the stepfather finds her. But yet, when we are
listening to the ranking County sheriffs on their body cam footage,
one deputy says this mom and this number two says
this mom yeah, and then he goes no, she Mom
and dad both got it. Mom and dad both got
(03:25):
what got hit? Explain Lauren Conlin.
Speaker 6 (03:30):
So when he Smiley walked into his house, he was
met by Carly Gregg who attempted to shoot him, got
him in the shoulder as he fought her off.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So immediately on the scene they realize what they think
has happened straight out to Catherine White and Newman, ranking
county assistant district attorney before that, public defender, private practice
in a wide variety of cases. Catherine, thank you for
being with us. You know, Catherine, when you hear defense
(04:02):
attorneys say there's no playbook for grief, the husband's showing
no emotion because he's in so much shock. Did you
hear that nine one one call, Catherine.
Speaker 7 (04:11):
I did, Nancy, That nine one one call is one
of the most chilling that I've heard on any type
of case. He was in sheer shock and terror. We
believe that he was certainly speaking the truth at that moment.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
That really hit the nail on the head, Katherine White Newman,
speaking the truth regardless of emotion, lack of emotion, demeanor
response if you can determine if they're telling the truth.
And of course we're not lie detectors, but when I
hear a nine one one call like that, it sounds
(04:49):
genuine to me. Now think about it, Catherine White Newman.
I'm sure you're familiar with the Alex Murdoch double murder
trial in South Carolina where he was kind of like eh,
and then it would go away and then he go again.
It was kind of an intermittent kind of wine. That's
not what we're hearing right here, is it, Catherine, No.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
It's not.
Speaker 7 (05:13):
In fact, at the beginning of the call, the nine
one one dispatcher actually thought he was speaking to a woman,
and Heath's voice was so high pitched because of the
terror that he was in that they again thought he
was a woman, and it wasn't until he gave them
his name that they realized they were talking to a man.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Katherine White Newman has actually worked on this case to
Kevin Camp joining us, a veteran criminal defense attorney and
lead lawyer in the case for Carly Gregg and f YI,
just so you know, former JAG military attorney guys, he's
at Camp Law Firm dot com. Kevin Camp question, how
(05:52):
do you somehow? What do you do you say to
the jury? Look here, not here?
Speaker 5 (05:58):
How do you do that?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
On one call is being played in front of the jury.
Do you just sit there pretend like you don't hear it?
Do you pull an OJ and act like you're taking
notes out when OJ's really writing I did it, y'all? Okay,
So what do you do? When you're hearing that nine
to one one call.
Speaker 8 (06:16):
At that point, you're just like what you said, You're
you're trying to do something to deflect it away from
your client and to move on from those issues as
quickly as you possibly can. Sometimes you you have the
situation where you know, look at the monkey, look at
the silly monkey over here, and you know, and get whatever,
(06:37):
whatever the issue is, you want to get off of
that subject just as fast as you can.
Speaker 9 (06:42):
Oh yes, And of course, from.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
What I can understand about your trial record, Kevin Camp,
you have certainly schooled your client how to behave in court.
Here's a little example. I was trying a murder case.
When I came into court, I had not seen it
at the arrament care calendar or any of the motion's calendars.
And I looked. But in a murder case, the defendant
(07:05):
had shaved into the back of his head hit man
number one. You know how many times I went to
the other side of the courtroom, so you'd have to
turn around and look that way so the jury could
see the back of his head. Well, obviously his lawyer
did not school him not to put that on the
back of his head. Bottom line I'm sure you have
your client schooled how to behave when damning evidence is
(07:28):
pouring from the witness stand. Listen, fourteen did a fourteen
(08:13):
year old girl shoot her mom dead? Shoot her stepfather?
And if so, why they did everything possible to show
her she's loved? And now I understand why Catherine White
Newman is saying they thought they were speaking to a woman,
because Smiley, the stepfather, is in so much pain and
(08:34):
shock from being shot and seeing his wife dead. His
voice has gone into a whole another octave and he
says she's fourteen. She ran away. I want to show
you some video that we have obtained. That's Carly Gregg
and her home. And from a trained eye, I immediately
(08:56):
notice everything's spotless. There. She walks out of the view
from the Okay, walking back across the den so far,
nothing in her hands. There are the dogs following her around,
everything as normal. I see her backpack. Oh, she's coming
around the corner with something behind her back. Oh what
could it be? Okay, not just one, but I think
(09:29):
three gunshots. There's free meditation right there. That's plenty of
time to form intent to kill. Here she comes back,
guns still behind her back and go straight to her phone.
Why not, Mommy's dead and she's texting. I wonder if
that's when she texts, Hey, guys, you want to see
a dead body, Come on over now, wait for it,
(09:52):
wait for it? Texting texting Catherine White. Nay, maman, did
she actually break out into song?
Speaker 7 (10:07):
She did, Nancy. She absolutely started homing at some point.
And the person she was texting at that moment that
was her mother's, her dead mother's phone. She picked up
that phone and text her stepdad and said.
Speaker 8 (10:20):
When will you be home? Honey?
Speaker 1 (10:22):
So she is luring luring the step dad to the scene.
Speaker 7 (10:29):
That's right, That's absolutely correct. She had her phone there,
but she chose to use her mother's uh to text
him to find out when he would be home.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Gonna be very tough to show any type of mental
defense when she texts the stepdad luring him home so
she can shoot him dead.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
Oh yeah, okay, sir, all right? What's her name? Carly Gregg?
Carly Gregg? Did you still have a gun? Homer?
Speaker 1 (11:14):
He ran.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Ran h Burnes, evapstash pot and an angry team. It's
an explosive combination that leads to death.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
I'm not we got, we got everybody had, that's what
your mom? Where's the mon where's sir? God?
Speaker 1 (12:05):
You know, it's so hard to hear that raw pain
and emotion by the stepdad finding his wife shot in
the face, to just the out pouring, the screaming, the
crying she shot her mom and she's gonna come back
(12:25):
and kill me, And still this nine one one person
doesn't seem to understand what's going on. The nine one
one dispatch says she killed her mom, and he goes, yes,
that's what I've been trying to tell you this whole call.
And now she's coming back to kill me. It's really
gonna be hard to make that mental defect, that mental defense.
When we see Curly Gregg, fourteen years old, sneaking around
(12:49):
the house with a gun behind her back, sneaking into
mom's area and shooting mom in the face. There's three
gun shots that we hear fired and then go straight
to the phone and texts stepdad hey from mom's phone.
From mom's phone, another layer of deception to lure him home.
(13:11):
Let's stay on that one moment when we introed, I
heard the words burner, phones, pot, and an angry teen
wait a minute straight out to doctor William Marony, longtime
colleague and friend, renowned medical examiner, toxicologist, pathologist, opioid treatment expert,
(13:33):
and author of a bestseller American Narcian. It's about saving
lives with malaxon dtr Maroney, thank you for taking time
from the morgue. I can't imagine who wants to tear
themselves away from that. But that said, are we really
(13:53):
going to blame pot here? That pot caused some kind
of a middle deepink? You're the toxicologist, I'm not buying it.
Help me.
Speaker 9 (14:03):
There's an awful lot of moral ethical and it's a
just a terrible state of American mental health. There's dissociative
disease here, dissociateive disease. Let me dumb it down, because
I know not everybody's a doctor. The idea that she
(14:26):
has a mental health process, that she's disconnected from thoughts, feelings,
and identity to make this happen. This violence is the
end result of dissociative disease. But guess what six times
more likely psychosis with cannabis.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
So okay, take hold on, let me rephrase my question.
Can I blame this on pot?
Speaker 9 (14:57):
Fifty fifty mental illness and drugs together.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Why wait, now, you're the medical examiner, right, Yes, but
it's it's okay. Do you have a degree that you've
kept hidden from me in psychiatry.
Speaker 9 (15:13):
Yes, I'm writing a book called Sidewalks.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Does not have a degree in psychiatry.
Speaker 9 (15:18):
I did study psychiatry at school, so no, no, I'm
going to argue with you. I can make these decisions.
I see people's mental.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I study psychology. I had one course in it. But
that doesn't make me Karen Stark. Good, Okay, I differ.
One little rotation with a psychiatric unit does not make
you a psychiatrists, just like my one class in psychology
does not turn me into Karen Stark.
Speaker 9 (15:46):
But I've seen this mental health of twenty years.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Using pot is not an excuse for shooting your mother
and your stepfather.
Speaker 9 (15:54):
What we have what we call three hit hypotheses genetics, environment,
and then drugs. You add them all together and you
get a terrible combination that leads to disrespective life, to
socia of disease, and then violent behavior that breaks laws.
This is the breakdown of society. There's not enough mental
(16:15):
health here, and the lack of.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Dear Lord in heaven. Now you're going to societal breakdown.
I know their societal breakdown. Guess what they said that
in Roman times there will always be societal breakdown. Okay,
not my problem right now. My problem right now is
why to Curly Gregg shoot her mother. If she has
(16:38):
a mental defect, then I want her in a mental hospital.
If she doesn't, I want her to treat it as
an adult and tribe for murder. It's really black and white,
it really is. You're telling me that pot I can
blame pot for the murder. Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 9 (16:55):
It adds to the dissociate disease six times more than
natural mental illness. The studies come from Scandinavia. They followed
conscripts for twenty years, and the condavia have six times
more likely to have psychotic episodes. Period.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Are you throwing a Scandinavian study at me and expecting
me to let Curly greg walk for murdering her mother
and then shooting her steath?
Speaker 9 (17:25):
No?
Speaker 1 (17:26):
What hold on? Hold on, Marony, Catherine White Newman. Isn't
it true that just before Curly Gregg shot her mother
in the face, I'm pretty sure I heard three gunshots
as you know you're a veteran prosecutor. Intent can be
formed in the twinkling of a moment, the blink of
(17:46):
an eye, the time it takes for you to pull
a trigger. Under the law, you don't need a long
drawn out plan such as poisoning someone over a period
of weeks and months, raising the gun, and pulling the trigger.
Under our jurisprudence shows intent. We've got three of those here.
But that said, in casey jury doesn't believe me, isn't
(18:07):
it true the mom was searching her room and she
didn't like it.
Speaker 7 (18:13):
That's exactly right, Nancy. Not only do we know that
because one of Carly's friends came forward to law enforcement
that day at school. He had been concerned about Carle's
use of burner phones and marijuana t x vapiens, and
so he confronted her mom to let her know about
this secret life. And we know from Carlee's evaluations that
(18:33):
mom confronted her on the way home, and then from
the video evidence inside the home, we know that mom
went over to Carly's side of the house, removed some items,
walked back to her bedroom at some point with them
in her hand, and then walked back to the bedroom
to continue searching. When law enforcement arrived on the scene
and they were able to process the scene, they found
(18:54):
four empty vape cartridge boxes as well as Carly's burner.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Okay, Katherine White Newman, you've got me drinking from the
fire hydrant. Okay, that was so much information, but I
didn't want to stop you. Could you say that again
and slowly? Because I'm making a flow chart here as
to why this girl is not insane. I'm not saying
(19:20):
she wasn't depressed, not at all. I'm not saying she
didn't have some type of mental issues. Don't all teenagers
have some kind of mental issue. But that said, if
she's truly mentally ill, I don't want her thrown into
gp general population. I want her treated. But I'm not
convinced yet. I have one dead body, a mother, a
(19:42):
devoted mother, shot in the face. I have her or
tasting her friends. Hey, you want to see a dead body,
and this is after she lures stepped at home to
shoot him. Now, my original question, Miss Newman, was isn't
it true mother was going to search her room?
Speaker 8 (20:02):
Yes?
Speaker 7 (20:02):
Absolutely, that's true. Mom had gone into Carly's room. She
was currently searching through her room when Carly came in
and shot her three times in the head. From what
we learned through law enforcement and also through the trial
was that one of Carly's friends was so concerned about
her secret life using burner phones as well as these
(20:24):
marijuana thhc vappens that he confronted her mom at school
that day to let her know that he was concerned
about Carly. And so we also know from Carly's mental
health evaluations she reported that mom in fact did confront
her on the way home about the drug use and
the phones. When law enforcement arrived at the scene to
(20:46):
process it, they found four empty vap pen boxes that
we assumed that mom had removed from Carly's bedroom. On
the video surveillance footage, Mom Ashley Smiley is seen walking
to Carly's of the house and then has something in
her hand and is scene walking to her bedroom and back,
(21:06):
and so we certainly think that Ashley had found those
baked pin boxes and quite frankly, possibly Carly's burner poam
before Carly came in and shot her mom three times
in the face inside her.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Bedroom, gunshots ring out. Carly Gregg caught on home surveillance
running away what happened?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Did you see her running away right there? Could I
just show that video one more time and that's from
out you're looking through the garage and there she goes.
Just so you know, that was Dad's blue pickup. That
was just Stepdad coming home after she lured him. There, guys,
(21:51):
with me and all Star Pannel, we have the prosecutor
on this case, Katherine White Newman, and the defense attorney
who still has not given up one greg Whether you
agree with him or not, that's what our constitution is
all about. He cares about one thing and one thing only,
doing everything he can within the law. I hope to
help his client. And if you're in trouble, that's kind
(22:15):
of lawyer you want. But I gotta tell you something,
Kevin Camp that text luring the stepdad and then the
text going hey guys, what's he? He dead body? Shooting
her mother twice in the face, and there's gotta be
some psychological story behind that once in the neck and
then shooting stepdad in the shoulder. It's gonna be really
(22:39):
tough to prove she has some type of mental defect.
When you when you see that and she runs flight
shows evidence of guilt. Knowledge of guilt? How do you
fight that? Yes, I know she usedes O law. I
get it, But how are you gonna blame pot?
Speaker 8 (23:00):
She texted her friends because she asked them because she
needed help, and so the tech, the text stream from
all her friends was dealing with, uh, you know, come over,
I need help. Uh, you know, things of that nature.
And they became concerned because they.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Thought, you mean things of that nature. Whoopsie, you mean
when she said, hey, does a dead body bother you?
That that that other text that wasn't a text, that
that was not a text? Was okay? What was the
text that?
Speaker 5 (23:35):
What was that?
Speaker 8 (23:37):
That was when her one of her friends, which you
saw the friend running behind Carly in the video, when
that friend came over, then Carly made that comp Brooks said,
Carly made that comment to her, and so that that's
where that comes. That's not the that's not from the Texas.
It'd be the second person they you know what.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I'm glad you clear cleared that up, Kevin Camp. So
am I supposed to assume that you think that's not
as damning as texting it? She says to her friend,
does dead body bother you?
Speaker 8 (24:11):
The the other the other things that you ask about
sort of what's going on and why why we have
these opinions on it. It's a mental defect and things
of that nature. It's a lot of conversations that she's
having with her friends. It's it's convers it's Texas conversations.
It's things that she was writing in her diary that
give us a glimpse of actually what was going on
(24:34):
that nobody knew besides her friends that these issues were
out there. And then what you're seeing is everything sort
of comes to a head on that March nineteenth day.
You have the medication comes into play. You have she
already had issues, she was cutting, there have been cutting issues.
(24:55):
There had been a lot of different mental things that
were that were all going on, and that's that's where
it all sort of comes together. One other thing that
I that I want to sort of clarify. They talked
about a burner fund. The burner phone is like just
an old iPad that they had and that she was
able to activate. So it's not like some you know,
(25:17):
nefarious phone. It was just one that that she was texting, uh,
texting her friends and stuff like that on and and
there was a boyfriend that I think she was texting
on that that she didn't want her mom to know about,
is what I got.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
So she's using an old iPad that mom and dad
have discounted, and she's using that surreptitiously.
Speaker 8 (25:39):
Yeah, that's where that's when we're talking about a burner phone.
That's that's the quote unquote burner phone. And so the
person that she's talking to is this. There's a boyfriend
who came in and testified that I think she had
met him at some mathematics camp up at Mississippi State
or something that summer before, and so that was that
was where the Texas were going, you know, the nefarious
(26:03):
Texas that everybody says. She has a burner phone.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Listen.
Speaker 10 (26:07):
Immediately after the shooting, Carly uses her mom's phone to
text Heith Smiley, you almost home, honey. Smiley replies he'll
be home in about an hour. Carly then sends a
text to six friends saying she's having an emergency and
needs someone to come to her house. One friend offers
to call nine one one, Carly declines. Eventually, one friend
agrees to come over. When Carly answers the door, she
(26:28):
asks the girl, are you squeamish around dead bodies, before
leading the girl to her mom's body in her bedroom.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
What are you squeamish around dead bodies? And then takes
the friend to go look at mom's body. Catherine White Newman,
did that happen?
Speaker 7 (26:46):
That did happen. One of the other things that has
not been addressed is that one of the people she
was texting with as you just played, offered to call
nine on one. She said, no, you can't do that.
One of the other friends. She also facetimed with multiple people,
so one of the other friends reported to law enforcement
that he told her don't hurt yourself or someone else,
(27:07):
and as soon as he got out or someone else,
she said it was too late. She also facetimed with
the same friend who had offered to call nine one one,
and she said, you can't do that. Our assumption is
because we knew that she wanted to try to kill
stepdad two, she didn't want her plans interrupted. But she
also explained to him that she had fed up again,
(27:29):
indicating to us, of course, Nancy, that she did in
fact know right from wrong. All of these actions. The
fact that she kept telling these friends, I can't tell
you why I need you to come over. I just
need help.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Let's go to Karen Stark, renowned psychologist, TV radio trauma
expert consultant at Karenstark dot com. That's Karen with a
C if you're looking for her. Okay, Karen. The only
other fact I want to throw in is Curley had
been on Zoloft and switched to lexipro. I don't know
(28:00):
if that had anything to do with it, but I
can tell you this, Karen Stark. If it did and
the defense is using that prescription drug, everybody in Rikers
is going to walk free because they're all going to say, hey,
I was on lexapro.
Speaker 11 (28:17):
Well, Nancy. I read that she was taking a very
small dose, and there's no way that that led to
psychotic behavior. I also want to talk about a disassociated
state that doctor Moroney kept mentioning. There's no way that
she's in a disassociated state. I don't even know where
that comes from. She is very aware of what she's doing.
(28:40):
She knows right from wrong. She knows to take her
mother's phone and to get in touch with his stepfather
and even use her mother's voice and say honey, are
you coming back soon? Her own counselor who saw her
the day before said that her mental state was fine.
(29:01):
She knows the difference between right and wrong. She knows
to walk quietly into her mother's room, She understands to
text her friends. She runs away after she attempts to
kill her stepfather. So this is someone who is a psychopath.
This is not a disassociated state. It's not because of
(29:22):
the medicine. It's very very clear. She's an angry teenager
who got caught and decides, well, I'll just go ahead
and kill both of them.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Lauren Collins joining me co hosts of Primetime Crime on YouTube,
which is incredible, Lauren, Lauren, is it true that when
everyone arrived at the scene they found mommy dad shot
three times? Which I'm gonna have to go to Maroney
on this overkill two times in the face, one time
(29:52):
in the neck. But Curly Gregg had laid a towel
over her mother's face.
Speaker 6 (30:00):
That's correct, Nancy, she did lay a towel over her
mother's face. And I just I want to add that
Ashley Smiley was an incredibly devoted parent Nancy, and Carly
greg like Kevin said, was brilliant. She skipped a grade
at thirteen, she scored a thirty on her acts, and
that towel right there, combined with everything else, in my opinion,
(30:24):
does show that she did know right from wrong. She
perhaps did not want to look at what she did
to her mother after she shot her three times in
the face, so she put a towel over her.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace. I've seen so many cases
where people do a makeshift covering, especially the murder of
victim's face, and one case where a daughter kills her
mother and then puts a wicker trash back basket out
of the bathroom over her mom's head. People throw leaves
(31:05):
over the face, only put a blanket a pillow. It's
very odd to me, but it's a thing because I've
seen it over and over. That's anecdotal proof, not statistics.
Doctor William Maroney again renowned medical examiner, toxicologist, pathologist, and author.
(31:26):
Doctor Moroney, This all starts over vaping and popped. Mom
goes into the room after getting tipped off by a
friend of her daughter's and pulls out four vapes empty.
Explain what that means? What are your thoughts.
Speaker 9 (31:45):
It's really important to recognize that THHC is just as
much a drug just because it's legal as something like
amphetamine or OxyContin, and regular exposure he whires the brain.
And you're not dealing with an adult brain of a
twenty seven year old. You're dealing with the brain of
(32:07):
a child. And if there's been THHC involved since it's eleven, twelve,
thirteen years old, you have what we call arrested emotional development.
So this knowing the difference between right and wrong in
a child, that's insane.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Doctor William Roney chilling in court, and you've got Kevin
Camp sitting right beside her, standing by her till the
bitter end. And you see Curly greg the fourteen year
old girl giggling in court, trying to stifle a giggle
(32:47):
in court after she is accused of murdering her mother. So,
Kevin Camp, that is damning. What do you do when
you're clients starts laughing during a murder trial?
Speaker 8 (33:03):
Well, I think it depends on you know what time
you're you're talking. That was a five day trial. There
were numerous times where she was crying when she was
given or when there were a lot of photos and
things that we had we had talked to her about.
But we had not prepared her for those or we
(33:26):
had not shown them to her, and so when they
came out in court, Uh, she became very very emotional
about that. So when if you're asking, you know, you
want the perception is you want your the people to
believe that that this individual is truly concerned about what's
going on. So when you're you're saying she was giggling,
(33:47):
I would have to put that in perspective of when
that happened. I know it wasn't during any of the
testimony or anything like that. Long trials that are very intense.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Kevin. Yes, I never want to be a defense attorney,
but I have to say I really admire you, you know,
fighting your way out of this paper bag, because she's
laughing in court in the murder of her mother and
you actually said that you're defending her, and you said, well,
it kind of depends on you know, the testimony at
(34:22):
the moment. Did she not see the gruesome crime scene
photos of her mother dead? But somehow she manages a giggle.
Speaker 8 (34:32):
She does it. She's not giggling then, In fact, when
when those were being shown, she was she was crying.
She was visibly upset when all that was happening as
far as this giggling. I don't know what time frame
we're talking about, but it wasn't. It certainly was not
in those time frames because I know what her reaction was.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Then the bio dad standing by her and defending her.
I have just received this motion for a new trial.
This is SOP standard operating procedure. Once you get once
the defense gets a guilty verdict or in this case,
a verdict of not insane or menally ill, you immediately
(35:15):
file a motion for a new trial and you try
to convince the judge this just just ruled against you,
that he she was all wrong and to give us
a redo. That rarely happens because no judge, even if
they are wrong, is ever going to admit it. After
this is denied, then the defense will start a legitimate
(35:36):
appeal to a higher court. So, Catherine White Newman, what
happened at the trial?
Speaker 7 (35:43):
I believe that the evidence showed that Carly Gregg was
in fact guilty of murder, attempted murder, and tampering with
physical evidence. We heard from doctor Gugliano as well as
doctor Pickett on behalf of the state, who testified that
Carly Gregg was competent to stand trial, and then that
Carly Gregg was not in fact insane at the time.
(36:04):
The judge allowed doctor Andrew Clark to testify on behalf
of the defendant. It's the states argument, and we stand
by this that he actually did not testify to the
proper standard. He did not actually meet the qualifications to
testify as an expert in this case. However, the jury
did get to hear from him. He talked about the
fact that Carly had apparently experienced a disassociated state and
(36:29):
that she blacked out from the time that she let
her dogs out until the time that she came to
in the sewer. Interestingly, doctor Clark said that his opinions
were just hypotheses, and also there were times that Carly
knew right from wrong during some of her actions. And
so we believe the jury got it right. I mean,
(36:50):
these ladies and gentlemen used their common sense and heard
from these experts, and there was just no testimony that
Carly in fact did not know right from wrong.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Kevin Camp, you just heard Katherine White Newman just off
the top of her head spin out so many seemingly
damning facts. She didn't even have to look at her
notes for Pete's sake. But Kevin Camp, you are convinced
at this girl, then fourteen year old Curly is ill,
(37:24):
that she has some sort of a mental illness. I
want to hear your defense, because again I do not
want someone medtally ill thrown in with GP. Tell me
your best shot.
Speaker 8 (37:38):
First and foremost. I would say doctor Clark was a
much more experienced psychiatrist than either of the two states
psychiatrists in this situation. In fact, the psychiatrists they used,
which was a doctor Pickett, this was the first time
that he had ever been qualified as an expert. He
had just gotten his qualifications, I believe back in October.
(38:01):
That being said, doctor Clark went through an extensive valuation
and we ruled out different things so we knew she
was on psychopath There were different tests and different things
that we looked at on that we knew that this
wasn't a panic situation. So then it comes into a
mental illness. We went back and started looking at what
(38:22):
the mental illnesses were, what was going on, uh, things
of that nature. Some of the stuff that I want
to I just want to address this a little bit.
Doctor Clark testified exactly to what McNaughton was. There was
no issue on different standard or anything of that nature.
One of the big issues that came out in the
(38:44):
case is they're actually their h expert. Again, the expert
who doesn't have any experience in this case, did a
diagnosis of Carly Gregg's father without ever seeing him. And
that that's something that from my understanding is you're the
(39:04):
American Medical Association, which this doctor is a part of,
is you don't do that, Okay, if you're you do
not do a value. You do not do diagnosis of people,
especially psychiatry diagnoses of people that you never examine. There's
a rule, it's called the Goldwater rule that comes into play.
That being said, the big issue was whether or not
(39:26):
she was bipolar, and she had not been diagnosed with
bipolar at that time. If there's a heredity, So let me.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Understand, you're an answer to the question, what instrumental defect
you're saying bipolar?
Speaker 8 (39:41):
Man?
Speaker 1 (39:41):
It depressive? Is that what you're saying is your ailment?
Speaker 8 (39:45):
Yes, it goes into that, Yes, it goes into that
disassociated state, and it all it all sort of fits
in together on how that works and that's what uh
if you take, if you if doctor Pickett does there evaluation,
does what he's supposed to, he's going to come to
the same conclusion that doctor Clark did, which that she
(40:05):
was in a manic situation and in that disassociated state
at that floor.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off good
night for it
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A teen girl just fourteen
years old, Curly Greg reportedly shoots mommy in the face
and then texts her friends to come see a dead body.
(00:22):
Let that sink ken. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This
is Crime Stories.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
A fifteen year old Mississippi high school student self reported
math and history nerd. Loves her pets and her mother.
Is she also a killer?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Maybe? Fifteen? Now fourteen at the time mommy gets shot
in the face. But hold on, Let's don't put the
car before the horse. Let's take a listen to that
nine one one call. I love nothing better except when
the defendant takes to stand love that the most. Nothing
better than a nine to one one call. Listen.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Okay, sir, where is your where's your?
Speaker 5 (01:15):
Why that on the bore of my daughter stepdaughter room?
She's on the poor in your stepdaughter's room. What do
I say? Act Ashley? Tie her? Sir? I speak with me? Okay?
(01:43):
Can you go out? Can go outside the house and speak? Coming?
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
That gut wrenching nine one one call of Mommy's husband
finding her in the floor, shot in the face, No
matter how many times I listen to a nine one
one call. When I hear the person calling in it,
(02:17):
it's almost disabling for the moment to hear that raw
pain in their voice. What more can we learn?
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Listen, that's that's mom, Yeah, yeah, under Mom and dad,
I forgot it?
Speaker 5 (02:41):
Okay and dad.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Dad's got to throw on the shoulder. He's already in
the ambush.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Okay. So join me in all star panel that makes
sense of what we know right now. Lauren Colin, first
to you, co host Primetime Crime on YouTube. Lauren, who
found Mommy?
Speaker 6 (02:59):
He smile found his wife Ashley smiling, and that is
Carly Greg's stepfather.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
So the stepfather finds her. But yet, when we are
listening to the ranking County sheriffs on their body cam footage,
one deputy says this mom and this number two says
this mom yeah, and then he goes no, she Mom
and dad both got it. Mom and dad both got
(03:25):
what got hit? Explain Lauren Conlin.
Speaker 6 (03:30):
So when he Smiley walked into his house, he was
met by Carly Gregg who attempted to shoot him, got
him in the shoulder as he fought her off.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So immediately on the scene they realize what they think
has happened straight out to Catherine White and Newman, ranking
county assistant district attorney before that, public defender, private practice
in a wide variety of cases. Catherine, thank you for
being with us. You know, Catherine, when you hear defense
(04:02):
attorneys say there's no playbook for grief, the husband's showing
no emotion because he's in so much shock. Did you
hear that nine one one call, Catherine.
Speaker 7 (04:11):
I did, Nancy, That nine one one call is one
of the most chilling that I've heard on any type
of case. He was in sheer shock and terror. We
believe that he was certainly speaking the truth at that moment.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
That really hit the nail on the head, Katherine White Newman,
speaking the truth regardless of emotion, lack of emotion, demeanor
response if you can determine if they're telling the truth.
And of course we're not lie detectors, but when I
hear a nine one one call like that, it sounds
(04:49):
genuine to me. Now think about it, Catherine White Newman.
I'm sure you're familiar with the Alex Murdoch double murder
trial in South Carolina where he was kind of like eh,
and then it would go away and then he go again.
It was kind of an intermittent kind of wine. That's
not what we're hearing right here, is it, Catherine, No.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
It's not.
Speaker 7 (05:13):
In fact, at the beginning of the call, the nine
one one dispatcher actually thought he was speaking to a woman,
and Heath's voice was so high pitched because of the
terror that he was in that they again thought he
was a woman, and it wasn't until he gave them
his name that they realized they were talking to a man.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Katherine White Newman has actually worked on this case to
Kevin Camp joining us, a veteran criminal defense attorney and
lead lawyer in the case for Carly Gregg and f YI,
just so you know, former JAG military attorney guys, he's
at Camp Law Firm dot com. Kevin Camp question, how
(05:52):
do you somehow? What do you do you say to
the jury? Look here, not here?
Speaker 5 (05:58):
How do you do that?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
On one call is being played in front of the jury.
Do you just sit there pretend like you don't hear it?
Do you pull an OJ and act like you're taking
notes out when OJ's really writing I did it, y'all? Okay,
So what do you do? When you're hearing that nine
to one one call.
Speaker 8 (06:16):
At that point, you're just like what you said, You're
you're trying to do something to deflect it away from
your client and to move on from those issues as
quickly as you possibly can. Sometimes you you have the
situation where you know, look at the monkey, look at
the silly monkey over here, and you know, and get whatever,
(06:37):
whatever the issue is, you want to get off of
that subject just as fast as you can.
Speaker 9 (06:42):
Oh yes, And of course, from.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
What I can understand about your trial record, Kevin Camp,
you have certainly schooled your client how to behave in court.
Here's a little example. I was trying a murder case.
When I came into court, I had not seen it
at the arrament care calendar or any of the motion's calendars.
And I looked. But in a murder case, the defendant
(07:05):
had shaved into the back of his head hit man
number one. You know how many times I went to
the other side of the courtroom, so you'd have to
turn around and look that way so the jury could
see the back of his head. Well, obviously his lawyer
did not school him not to put that on the
back of his head. Bottom line I'm sure you have
your client schooled how to behave when damning evidence is
(07:28):
pouring from the witness stand. Listen, fourteen did a fourteen
(08:13):
year old girl shoot her mom dead? Shoot her stepfather?
And if so, why they did everything possible to show
her she's loved? And now I understand why Catherine White
Newman is saying they thought they were speaking to a woman,
because Smiley, the stepfather, is in so much pain and
(08:34):
shock from being shot and seeing his wife dead. His
voice has gone into a whole another octave and he
says she's fourteen. She ran away. I want to show
you some video that we have obtained. That's Carly Gregg
and her home. And from a trained eye, I immediately
(08:56):
notice everything's spotless. There. She walks out of the view
from the Okay, walking back across the den so far,
nothing in her hands. There are the dogs following her around,
everything as normal. I see her backpack. Oh, she's coming
around the corner with something behind her back. Oh what
could it be? Okay, not just one, but I think
(09:29):
three gunshots. There's free meditation right there. That's plenty of
time to form intent to kill. Here she comes back,
guns still behind her back and go straight to her phone.
Why not, Mommy's dead and she's texting. I wonder if
that's when she texts, Hey, guys, you want to see
a dead body, Come on over now, wait for it,
(09:52):
wait for it? Texting texting Catherine White. Nay, maman, did
she actually break out into song?
Speaker 7 (10:07):
She did, Nancy. She absolutely started homing at some point.
And the person she was texting at that moment that
was her mother's, her dead mother's phone. She picked up
that phone and text her stepdad and said.
Speaker 8 (10:20):
When will you be home? Honey?
Speaker 1 (10:22):
So she is luring luring the step dad to the scene.
Speaker 7 (10:29):
That's right, That's absolutely correct. She had her phone there,
but she chose to use her mother's uh to text
him to find out when he would be home.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Gonna be very tough to show any type of mental
defense when she texts the stepdad luring him home so
she can shoot him dead.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
Oh yeah, okay, sir, all right? What's her name? Carly Gregg?
Carly Gregg? Did you still have a gun? Homer?
Speaker 1 (11:14):
He ran.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Ran h Burnes, evapstash pot and an angry team. It's
an explosive combination that leads to death.
Speaker 5 (11:29):
I'm not we got, we got everybody had, that's what
your mom? Where's the mon where's sir? God?
Speaker 1 (12:05):
You know, it's so hard to hear that raw pain
and emotion by the stepdad finding his wife shot in
the face, to just the out pouring, the screaming, the
crying she shot her mom and she's gonna come back
(12:25):
and kill me, And still this nine one one person
doesn't seem to understand what's going on. The nine one
one dispatch says she killed her mom, and he goes, yes,
that's what I've been trying to tell you this whole call.
And now she's coming back to kill me. It's really
gonna be hard to make that mental defect, that mental defense.
When we see Curly Gregg, fourteen years old, sneaking around
(12:49):
the house with a gun behind her back, sneaking into
mom's area and shooting mom in the face. There's three
gun shots that we hear fired and then go straight
to the phone and texts stepdad hey from mom's phone.
From mom's phone, another layer of deception to lure him home.
(13:11):
Let's stay on that one moment when we introed, I
heard the words burner, phones, pot, and an angry teen
wait a minute straight out to doctor William Marony, longtime
colleague and friend, renowned medical examiner, toxicologist, pathologist, opioid treatment expert,
(13:33):
and author of a bestseller American Narcian. It's about saving
lives with malaxon dtr Maroney, thank you for taking time
from the morgue. I can't imagine who wants to tear
themselves away from that. But that said, are we really
(13:53):
going to blame pot here? That pot caused some kind
of a middle deepink? You're the toxicologist, I'm not buying it.
Help me.
Speaker 9 (14:03):
There's an awful lot of moral ethical and it's a
just a terrible state of American mental health. There's dissociative
disease here, dissociateive disease. Let me dumb it down, because
I know not everybody's a doctor. The idea that she
(14:26):
has a mental health process, that she's disconnected from thoughts, feelings,
and identity to make this happen. This violence is the
end result of dissociative disease. But guess what six times
more likely psychosis with cannabis.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
So okay, take hold on, let me rephrase my question.
Can I blame this on pot?
Speaker 9 (14:57):
Fifty fifty mental illness and drugs together.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Why wait, now, you're the medical examiner, right, Yes, but
it's it's okay. Do you have a degree that you've
kept hidden from me in psychiatry.
Speaker 9 (15:13):
Yes, I'm writing a book called Sidewalks.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Does not have a degree in psychiatry.
Speaker 9 (15:18):
I did study psychiatry at school, so no, no, I'm
going to argue with you. I can make these decisions.
I see people's mental.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I study psychology. I had one course in it. But
that doesn't make me Karen Stark. Good, Okay, I differ.
One little rotation with a psychiatric unit does not make
you a psychiatrists, just like my one class in psychology
does not turn me into Karen Stark.
Speaker 9 (15:46):
But I've seen this mental health of twenty years.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Using pot is not an excuse for shooting your mother
and your stepfather.
Speaker 9 (15:54):
What we have what we call three hit hypotheses genetics, environment,
and then drugs. You add them all together and you
get a terrible combination that leads to disrespective life, to
socia of disease, and then violent behavior that breaks laws.
This is the breakdown of society. There's not enough mental
(16:15):
health here, and the lack of.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Dear Lord in heaven. Now you're going to societal breakdown.
I know their societal breakdown. Guess what they said that
in Roman times there will always be societal breakdown. Okay,
not my problem right now. My problem right now is
why to Curly Gregg shoot her mother. If she has
(16:38):
a mental defect, then I want her in a mental hospital.
If she doesn't, I want her to treat it as
an adult and tribe for murder. It's really black and white,
it really is. You're telling me that pot I can
blame pot for the murder. Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 9 (16:55):
It adds to the dissociate disease six times more than
natural mental illness. The studies come from Scandinavia. They followed
conscripts for twenty years, and the condavia have six times
more likely to have psychotic episodes. Period.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Are you throwing a Scandinavian study at me and expecting
me to let Curly greg walk for murdering her mother
and then shooting her steath?
Speaker 9 (17:25):
No?
Speaker 1 (17:26):
What hold on? Hold on, Marony, Catherine White Newman. Isn't
it true that just before Curly Gregg shot her mother
in the face, I'm pretty sure I heard three gunshots
as you know you're a veteran prosecutor. Intent can be
formed in the twinkling of a moment, the blink of
(17:46):
an eye, the time it takes for you to pull
a trigger. Under the law, you don't need a long
drawn out plan such as poisoning someone over a period
of weeks and months, raising the gun, and pulling the trigger.
Under our jurisprudence shows intent. We've got three of those here.
But that said, in casey jury doesn't believe me, isn't
(18:07):
it true the mom was searching her room and she
didn't like it.
Speaker 7 (18:13):
That's exactly right, Nancy. Not only do we know that
because one of Carly's friends came forward to law enforcement
that day at school. He had been concerned about Carle's
use of burner phones and marijuana t x vapiens, and
so he confronted her mom to let her know about
this secret life. And we know from Carlee's evaluations that
(18:33):
mom confronted her on the way home, and then from
the video evidence inside the home, we know that mom
went over to Carly's side of the house, removed some items,
walked back to her bedroom at some point with them
in her hand, and then walked back to the bedroom
to continue searching. When law enforcement arrived on the scene
and they were able to process the scene, they found
(18:54):
four empty vape cartridge boxes as well as Carly's burner.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Okay, Katherine White Newman, you've got me drinking from the
fire hydrant. Okay, that was so much information, but I
didn't want to stop you. Could you say that again
and slowly? Because I'm making a flow chart here as
to why this girl is not insane. I'm not saying
(19:20):
she wasn't depressed, not at all. I'm not saying she
didn't have some type of mental issues. Don't all teenagers
have some kind of mental issue. But that said, if
she's truly mentally ill, I don't want her thrown into
gp general population. I want her treated. But I'm not
convinced yet. I have one dead body, a mother, a
(19:42):
devoted mother, shot in the face. I have her or
tasting her friends. Hey, you want to see a dead body,
and this is after she lures stepped at home to
shoot him. Now, my original question, Miss Newman, was isn't
it true mother was going to search her room?
Speaker 8 (20:02):
Yes?
Speaker 7 (20:02):
Absolutely, that's true. Mom had gone into Carly's room. She
was currently searching through her room when Carly came in
and shot her three times in the head. From what
we learned through law enforcement and also through the trial
was that one of Carly's friends was so concerned about
her secret life using burner phones as well as these
(20:24):
marijuana thhc vappens that he confronted her mom at school
that day to let her know that he was concerned
about Carly. And so we also know from Carly's mental
health evaluations she reported that mom in fact did confront
her on the way home about the drug use and
the phones. When law enforcement arrived at the scene to
(20:46):
process it, they found four empty vap pen boxes that
we assumed that mom had removed from Carly's bedroom. On
the video surveillance footage, Mom Ashley Smiley is seen walking
to Carly's of the house and then has something in
her hand and is scene walking to her bedroom and back,
(21:06):
and so we certainly think that Ashley had found those
baked pin boxes and quite frankly, possibly Carly's burner poam
before Carly came in and shot her mom three times
in the face inside her.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Bedroom, gunshots ring out. Carly Gregg caught on home surveillance
running away what happened?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Did you see her running away right there? Could I
just show that video one more time and that's from
out you're looking through the garage and there she goes.
Just so you know, that was Dad's blue pickup. That
was just Stepdad coming home after she lured him. There, guys,
(21:51):
with me and all Star Pannel, we have the prosecutor
on this case, Katherine White Newman, and the defense attorney
who still has not given up one greg Whether you
agree with him or not, that's what our constitution is
all about. He cares about one thing and one thing only,
doing everything he can within the law. I hope to
help his client. And if you're in trouble, that's kind
(22:15):
of lawyer you want. But I gotta tell you something,
Kevin Camp that text luring the stepdad and then the
text going hey guys, what's he? He dead body? Shooting
her mother twice in the face, and there's gotta be
some psychological story behind that once in the neck and
then shooting stepdad in the shoulder. It's gonna be really
(22:39):
tough to prove she has some type of mental defect.
When you when you see that and she runs flight
shows evidence of guilt. Knowledge of guilt? How do you
fight that? Yes, I know she usedes O law. I
get it, But how are you gonna blame pot?
Speaker 8 (23:00):
She texted her friends because she asked them because she
needed help, and so the tech, the text stream from
all her friends was dealing with, uh, you know, come over,
I need help. Uh, you know, things of that nature.
And they became concerned because they.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Thought, you mean things of that nature. Whoopsie, you mean
when she said, hey, does a dead body bother you?
That that that other text that wasn't a text, that
that was not a text? Was okay? What was the
text that?
Speaker 5 (23:35):
What was that?
Speaker 8 (23:37):
That was when her one of her friends, which you
saw the friend running behind Carly in the video, when
that friend came over, then Carly made that comp Brooks said,
Carly made that comment to her, and so that that's
where that comes. That's not the that's not from the Texas.
It'd be the second person they you know what.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I'm glad you clear cleared that up, Kevin Camp. So
am I supposed to assume that you think that's not
as damning as texting it? She says to her friend,
does dead body bother you?
Speaker 8 (24:11):
The the other the other things that you ask about
sort of what's going on and why why we have
these opinions on it. It's a mental defect and things
of that nature. It's a lot of conversations that she's
having with her friends. It's it's convers it's Texas conversations.
It's things that she was writing in her diary that
give us a glimpse of actually what was going on
(24:34):
that nobody knew besides her friends that these issues were
out there. And then what you're seeing is everything sort
of comes to a head on that March nineteenth day.
You have the medication comes into play. You have she
already had issues, she was cutting, there have been cutting issues.
(24:55):
There had been a lot of different mental things that
were that were all going on, and that's that's where
it all sort of comes together. One other thing that
I that I want to sort of clarify. They talked
about a burner fund. The burner phone is like just
an old iPad that they had and that she was
able to activate. So it's not like some you know,
(25:17):
nefarious phone. It was just one that that she was texting, uh,
texting her friends and stuff like that on and and
there was a boyfriend that I think she was texting
on that that she didn't want her mom to know about,
is what I got.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
So she's using an old iPad that mom and dad
have discounted, and she's using that surreptitiously.
Speaker 8 (25:39):
Yeah, that's where that's when we're talking about a burner phone.
That's that's the quote unquote burner phone. And so the
person that she's talking to is this. There's a boyfriend
who came in and testified that I think she had
met him at some mathematics camp up at Mississippi State
or something that summer before, and so that was that
was where the Texas were going, you know, the nefarious
(26:03):
Texas that everybody says. She has a burner phone.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Listen.
Speaker 10 (26:07):
Immediately after the shooting, Carly uses her mom's phone to
text Heith Smiley, you almost home, honey. Smiley replies he'll
be home in about an hour. Carly then sends a
text to six friends saying she's having an emergency and
needs someone to come to her house. One friend offers
to call nine one one, Carly declines. Eventually, one friend
agrees to come over. When Carly answers the door, she
(26:28):
asks the girl, are you squeamish around dead bodies, before
leading the girl to her mom's body in her bedroom.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
What are you squeamish around dead bodies? And then takes
the friend to go look at mom's body. Catherine White Newman,
did that happen?
Speaker 7 (26:46):
That did happen. One of the other things that has
not been addressed is that one of the people she
was texting with as you just played, offered to call
nine on one. She said, no, you can't do that.
One of the other friends. She also facetimed with multiple people,
so one of the other friends reported to law enforcement
that he told her don't hurt yourself or someone else,
(27:07):
and as soon as he got out or someone else,
she said it was too late. She also facetimed with
the same friend who had offered to call nine one one,
and she said, you can't do that. Our assumption is
because we knew that she wanted to try to kill
stepdad two, she didn't want her plans interrupted. But she
also explained to him that she had fed up again,
(27:29):
indicating to us, of course, Nancy, that she did in
fact know right from wrong. All of these actions. The
fact that she kept telling these friends, I can't tell
you why I need you to come over. I just
need help.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Let's go to Karen Stark, renowned psychologist, TV radio trauma
expert consultant at Karenstark dot com. That's Karen with a
C if you're looking for her. Okay, Karen. The only
other fact I want to throw in is Curley had
been on Zoloft and switched to lexipro. I don't know
(28:00):
if that had anything to do with it, but I
can tell you this, Karen Stark. If it did and
the defense is using that prescription drug, everybody in Rikers
is going to walk free because they're all going to say, hey,
I was on lexapro.
Speaker 11 (28:17):
Well, Nancy. I read that she was taking a very
small dose, and there's no way that that led to
psychotic behavior. I also want to talk about a disassociated
state that doctor Moroney kept mentioning. There's no way that
she's in a disassociated state. I don't even know where
that comes from. She is very aware of what she's doing.
(28:40):
She knows right from wrong. She knows to take her
mother's phone and to get in touch with his stepfather
and even use her mother's voice and say honey, are
you coming back soon? Her own counselor who saw her
the day before said that her mental state was fine.
(29:01):
She knows the difference between right and wrong. She knows
to walk quietly into her mother's room, She understands to
text her friends. She runs away after she attempts to
kill her stepfather. So this is someone who is a psychopath.
This is not a disassociated state. It's not because of
(29:22):
the medicine. It's very very clear. She's an angry teenager
who got caught and decides, well, I'll just go ahead
and kill both of them.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Lauren Collins joining me co hosts of Primetime Crime on YouTube,
which is incredible, Lauren, Lauren, is it true that when
everyone arrived at the scene they found mommy dad shot
three times? Which I'm gonna have to go to Maroney
on this overkill two times in the face, one time
(29:52):
in the neck. But Curly Gregg had laid a towel
over her mother's face.
Speaker 6 (30:00):
That's correct, Nancy, she did lay a towel over her
mother's face. And I just I want to add that
Ashley Smiley was an incredibly devoted parent Nancy, and Carly
greg like Kevin said, was brilliant. She skipped a grade
at thirteen, she scored a thirty on her acts, and
that towel right there, combined with everything else, in my opinion,
(30:24):
does show that she did know right from wrong. She
perhaps did not want to look at what she did
to her mother after she shot her three times in
the face, so she put a towel over her.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace. I've seen so many cases
where people do a makeshift covering, especially the murder of
victim's face, and one case where a daughter kills her
mother and then puts a wicker trash back basket out
of the bathroom over her mom's head. People throw leaves
(31:05):
over the face, only put a blanket a pillow. It's
very odd to me, but it's a thing because I've
seen it over and over. That's anecdotal proof, not statistics.
Doctor William Maroney again renowned medical examiner, toxicologist, pathologist, and author.
(31:26):
Doctor Moroney, This all starts over vaping and popped. Mom
goes into the room after getting tipped off by a
friend of her daughter's and pulls out four vapes empty.
Explain what that means? What are your thoughts.
Speaker 9 (31:45):
It's really important to recognize that THHC is just as
much a drug just because it's legal as something like
amphetamine or OxyContin, and regular exposure he whires the brain.
And you're not dealing with an adult brain of a
twenty seven year old. You're dealing with the brain of
(32:07):
a child. And if there's been THHC involved since it's eleven, twelve,
thirteen years old, you have what we call arrested emotional development.
So this knowing the difference between right and wrong in
a child, that's insane.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Doctor William Roney chilling in court, and you've got Kevin
Camp sitting right beside her, standing by her till the
bitter end. And you see Curly greg the fourteen year
old girl giggling in court, trying to stifle a giggle
(32:47):
in court after she is accused of murdering her mother. So,
Kevin Camp, that is damning. What do you do when
you're clients starts laughing during a murder trial?
Speaker 8 (33:03):
Well, I think it depends on you know what time
you're you're talking. That was a five day trial. There
were numerous times where she was crying when she was
given or when there were a lot of photos and
things that we had we had talked to her about.
But we had not prepared her for those or we
(33:26):
had not shown them to her, and so when they
came out in court, Uh, she became very very emotional
about that. So when if you're asking, you know, you
want the perception is you want your the people to
believe that that this individual is truly concerned about what's
going on. So when you're you're saying she was giggling,
(33:47):
I would have to put that in perspective of when
that happened. I know it wasn't during any of the
testimony or anything like that. Long trials that are very intense.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Kevin. Yes, I never want to be a defense attorney,
but I have to say I really admire you, you know,
fighting your way out of this paper bag, because she's
laughing in court in the murder of her mother and
you actually said that you're defending her, and you said, well,
it kind of depends on you know, the testimony at
(34:22):
the moment. Did she not see the gruesome crime scene
photos of her mother dead? But somehow she manages a giggle.
Speaker 8 (34:32):
She does it. She's not giggling then, In fact, when
when those were being shown, she was she was crying.
She was visibly upset when all that was happening as
far as this giggling. I don't know what time frame
we're talking about, but it wasn't. It certainly was not
in those time frames because I know what her reaction was.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Then the bio dad standing by her and defending her.
I have just received this motion for a new trial.
This is SOP standard operating procedure. Once you get once
the defense gets a guilty verdict or in this case,
a verdict of not insane or menally ill, you immediately
(35:15):
file a motion for a new trial and you try
to convince the judge this just just ruled against you,
that he she was all wrong and to give us
a redo. That rarely happens because no judge, even if
they are wrong, is ever going to admit it. After
this is denied, then the defense will start a legitimate
(35:36):
appeal to a higher court. So, Catherine White Newman, what
happened at the trial?
Speaker 7 (35:43):
I believe that the evidence showed that Carly Gregg was
in fact guilty of murder, attempted murder, and tampering with
physical evidence. We heard from doctor Gugliano as well as
doctor Pickett on behalf of the state, who testified that
Carly Gregg was competent to stand trial, and then that
Carly Gregg was not in fact insane at the time.
(36:04):
The judge allowed doctor Andrew Clark to testify on behalf
of the defendant. It's the states argument, and we stand
by this that he actually did not testify to the
proper standard. He did not actually meet the qualifications to
testify as an expert in this case. However, the jury
did get to hear from him. He talked about the
fact that Carly had apparently experienced a disassociated state and
(36:29):
that she blacked out from the time that she let
her dogs out until the time that she came to
in the sewer. Interestingly, doctor Clark said that his opinions
were just hypotheses, and also there were times that Carly
knew right from wrong during some of her actions. And
so we believe the jury got it right. I mean,
(36:50):
these ladies and gentlemen used their common sense and heard
from these experts, and there was just no testimony that
Carly in fact did not know right from wrong.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Kevin Camp, you just heard Katherine White Newman just off
the top of her head spin out so many seemingly
damning facts. She didn't even have to look at her
notes for Pete's sake. But Kevin Camp, you are convinced
at this girl, then fourteen year old Curly is ill,
(37:24):
that she has some sort of a mental illness. I
want to hear your defense, because again I do not
want someone medtally ill thrown in with GP. Tell me
your best shot.
Speaker 8 (37:38):
First and foremost. I would say doctor Clark was a
much more experienced psychiatrist than either of the two states
psychiatrists in this situation. In fact, the psychiatrists they used,
which was a doctor Pickett, this was the first time
that he had ever been qualified as an expert. He
had just gotten his qualifications, I believe back in October.
(38:01):
That being said, doctor Clark went through an extensive valuation
and we ruled out different things so we knew she
was on psychopath There were different tests and different things
that we looked at on that we knew that this
wasn't a panic situation. So then it comes into a
mental illness. We went back and started looking at what
(38:22):
the mental illnesses were, what was going on, uh, things
of that nature. Some of the stuff that I want
to I just want to address this a little bit.
Doctor Clark testified exactly to what McNaughton was. There was
no issue on different standard or anything of that nature.
One of the big issues that came out in the
(38:44):
case is they're actually their h expert. Again, the expert
who doesn't have any experience in this case, did a
diagnosis of Carly Gregg's father without ever seeing him. And
that that's something that from my understanding is you're the
(39:04):
American Medical Association, which this doctor is a part of,
is you don't do that, Okay, if you're you do
not do a value. You do not do diagnosis of people,
especially psychiatry diagnoses of people that you never examine. There's
a rule, it's called the Goldwater rule that comes into play.
That being said, the big issue was whether or not
(39:26):
she was bipolar, and she had not been diagnosed with
bipolar at that time. If there's a heredity, So let me.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Understand, you're an answer to the question, what instrumental defect
you're saying bipolar?
Speaker 8 (39:41):
Man?
Speaker 1 (39:41):
It depressive? Is that what you're saying is your ailment?
Speaker 8 (39:45):
Yes, it goes into that, Yes, it goes into that
disassociated state, and it all it all sort of fits
in together on how that works and that's what uh
if you take, if you if doctor Pickett does there evaluation,
does what he's supposed to, he's going to come to
the same conclusion that doctor Clark did, which that she
(40:05):
was in a manic situation and in that disassociated state
at that floor.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off good
night for it
Host
Nancy Grace
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!