August 22, 2025 • 43 mins
Epstein Conspiracy, or Epstein Conspiracy Theory? Nancy has a conversation with a true crime author on why the Epstein Story is NOT a "Conspiracy Theory," and not only does he handpick and deliver his victims inside the United States, but also his criminal network spreads globally.
Barry Levine, author of "The Spider: Inside the Criminal Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell," has dedicated years speaking on the unanswered questions about Jeffrey Epstein, his island, the controversy surrounding releasing Epstein files, and more.
Who is covering for Jeffrey Epstein and why, even though he is dead? Girls as young as 12, witnesses claim seeing them go to Epstein's mansion, flown around the world for Epstein's pleasure, but who else? Survivors and their families criticize the Department of Justice’s “chaotic approach” to handling the case, triggering feelings again of having no control of the situation. Victims, along with the public, were especially thrown by Ghislaine Maxwell’s sudden prison transfer, saying hearing about it for the first time in the news was another disappointment.
A New York judge has denied the Department of Justice’s request to unseal grand jury transcripts used to indict Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell on sex trafficking of minors. Questions continue to arise as to why Epstein and Maxwell, who had sex with minors, are the only ones charged and the circumstances surrounding Epstein’s death.
Jeffrey Epstein, the billionaire financier and convicted sex offender charged with the sex trafficking of minors, wasn't just preying on underprivileged kids in the United States; his empire was much bigger. Demands for releasing flight logs and curiosity from the public still wanting to know how and where Epstein obtained all his wealth.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
Barry Levine - Author of “The Spider: Inside the Tangled Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell,” and Veteran Investigative and Editor in Print and Television.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace at this hour, as the
country is seemingly torn in half over the release of
the so called Epstein files and the Epstein client list,
we have proof that Jeffrey Epstein's child sex trafficking ring
(00:25):
spans much further than just the US. I'm talking about
proof that girls as young as twelve years old were
flown from various countries to Epstein's Island, where they were
handed over like a pizza delivery to Jeffrey Epstein and
(00:49):
his wealthy clients. It's like a dirt sandwich in my mouth.
Why has this not been uncovered? I mean, I see, Grace,
this is Clime Stories. I want to thank you for
being with us. Joining us tonight is a very special guest,
Barry Levine. Barry is the author of an incredible book
(01:13):
called Listen to This, The Spider Inside the Tangled Web
of Jeffrey Epstein and Elaine Maxwell. Wow. He is a
veteran investigative reporter and editor both in print and in TV. Barry,
(01:33):
you devoted a huge chunk of your life to writing
this book about Epstein and Maxwell, and it is amazing.
I've got so many questions for you, but I want
to start with something we don't normally hear about. Regarding Epstein,
I've done a lot of research on this, but I'm
sure you have outdone me. I want to talk about
(01:58):
the US Virgin Islands. Why do I want to talk
about that because we've been focusing a lot, as has
the public, on the Epstein files. Even though we were
promised they would be released, it hasn't happened. I smell
a rat now. I could go down that road. But
(02:19):
there's something I'd like you to educate everyone about, okay,
and that is the fact that Epstein wasn't just finding
teen girls in Florida that were usually underprivileged, single parent home,
no money, no hopes. He wasn't just preying on them.
(02:42):
At his height, he had about, give or take five
hundred and six hundred million dollars, yet he was trading
moving billions bizin brother billions of dollars. Now, everybody that
has a bank account knows you can't transfer more money
(03:03):
than you have. I want to know where the money
is coming from. And regarding the US Virgin Islands, this
sex child sex trafficking ring is a lot bigger than
a few girls down upon beach. We are talking about Europe.
We are talking about Eastern Europe. We are talking about children,
(03:25):
girls as young as twelve years old, being put on
planes and flown to the US Virgin Islands, delivered like
a pizza to Jeffrey Epstein, and then his French counterpart,
Jean le Brunelle, is dead behind bars. Wow, what a coincidink.
(03:48):
You have uncovered evidence that this is a world wide operation.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Explain that's absolutely correct, Nancy, And I'm hoping that if
we ever get into these Epstein files, three hundred gigabytes
of material that hundreds of thousands of pages, that we
will help uncover the enablers who assisted Jeffrey Epstein. Now names.
(04:19):
You have to remember that after Jeffrey Epstein received that
slap on the risk conviction down in Florida in two
thousand and eight. It's part of that non prosecution agreement
in which he only had to plead guilty to state
charges for solicitation of a minor and was given a
(04:39):
sweetheart deal of fourteen months behind bars, which most.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Of the time he was l I just want to
tell you something. You're actually making my stomach hurt. It's
actually hurting right now. If i'd have gotten a hold
of this guy, he would have been under the jail.
Under the jail, he actually had his limo pick him up,
his limo at the Palmies jail and drive him wherever
(05:07):
he wanted to go. That's not punishment. So who is
covering for this guy? Well, at this point he's dead,
so he's not getting covered. Somebody else is covering for
somebody else. But I'm sorry I interrupted. Please go ahead,
(05:28):
absolutely right, Nancy.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
It was sickening in terms of that slap on the
wrist in Florida. At the time, the FBI wanted to
put him away for seventy five years, and then he
got that sweetheart deal. And when he was out on
work release, he had a ankle bracelet and he was
having sex, as I reported in my book with Victims,
(05:50):
while he had the ankle monitor on his leg.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Anyway, Okay, hold on, I gotta just hold that image
in my mind. And I used to tellys, I know
it's disgusting. You may go home and vomit, but you
have to think about it. You have to think about this. Okay,
I'm going to make you think about it, Levine. Jeffrey
Epstein naked on his massage table with Gilaine Maxwell, not
(06:18):
just present, but actually girls with him. Let's think about that.
And when you say victims, little girls, and I believe
you can prove this. Little girls as young as twelve
being flown from Russia, Turkey, and beyond two the Virgin Islands,
(06:41):
delivered directly to Jeffrey Epstein. There are witnesses that see
the little girls getting off the plane and going to
his mansion, not just one, not just to a steady string.
There are thousands of victims, which leads me to who
(07:02):
and the hell are the other men that can are
wealthy enough to pay to fly to US Virgin Islands
and have with a twelve year old girl. By god,
I am not letting this go le Vain.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
And you shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
And the American public and the victims, over a thousand
victims want answers.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
And that's why we.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Need to open up these FBI files, because we need
to find the men who put these girls on plane.
They didn't get on planes themselves. There were men in
these remote locations in Russia, in Turkey, in tur Mecca, Stan,
Eastern European countries. Jeffrey Epstein was afraid of the Pombeach Police.
(07:46):
He was afraid of the NYPD after that slap on
the risk conviction, so he moved his sex trafficking too
his island in the Virgin Island, and there he used enablers.
And you mentioned one Jean Luke Brunell, who was a
French modeling agent who after Jeffrey Epstein's death, he himself
ended up behind bars in Paris on charges and mysteriously
(08:10):
also died behind bars in a similar fashion to Jeffrey Epstein.
And we still don't have answers to how John Luke
Brunell actually died, but we do know that he was
one of the men who was one of the enabors
who put these young girls on planes. Once they arrived
at the airport in the Virgin Islands, they were then
(08:30):
ferried by boat to Jeffrey Epstein's house on Little Saint James,
and we know that it was horrific. He made the
girls call him the godfather. He had a gun strap
to one of his bedposts. One victim was so terrified
that she actually attempted to swim off the island, only
(08:53):
to turn back when she realized the water currents and
so forth. This was a the horrors that Jeffrey Epstein
brought these girls to and only now are we beginning to.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Learn some of the circumstances.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I have to applaud Senator Ron White in the Oregon
who is looking into the forty seven hundred wire transfers
totally one billion dollars of money that Jeffrey Epstein used
to pay out these enablers and others. The money was
(09:29):
put through Russian banks. We need to get down to
the bottom of all this. We need him to continue
his investigation, and we absolutely need to dig into those
FBI files to see if there are men out there
that the US could work with other governments on in
terms of bringing some of these enablers to justice.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
You know, you said this was an island of horrors
in the one little girl tried to swim away. I mean,
of course, I'm projecting about my life, little girl. This's tiny,
tiny little thing, even now at seventeen, at age twelve, Okay,
when I was age twelve, I didn't even know what
(10:10):
a period was. When my front store neighbor told me,
I thought it was a joke. Twelve year old girls,
and now hold that thought in your mind. A twelve
year old little girl fourth fifth grade. Somebody puts her
on a plane with other little girls, a private plane.
She is flown to Epstein's Island, two miles from shore.
(10:37):
She's thrown to the mainland, and then she's ferried to
the island. I've learned from research. Why am I saying
all this because there's a chain a private plane and
let's just pretend Russia or one of the stands. Somebody
(11:00):
has a log of the pop private plane. That plane
brings little girls to the mainland USVII. Then they get
off the plane. Somebody sees them getting off the plane,
and there are witnesses, you know, there are witnesses about
the little girls filing off the plane. Then they get
onto a ferry. Why do I care? Because that gives
(11:21):
me other witnesses. The captain, the crew that fairy the
little girls and hand them over to Epstein. Somebody meets
them at the ferry and brings them in. Now twelve
years old, what seventy pounds, sixty pounds maybe? Virginia's You're
Freight describes being taken into the massage room where she
(11:44):
is put on top of Epstein and heed her and
then they give her two hundred dollars and send her
on our way. These girls twelve years old, many if
not all of them Virgin not knowing what was happening
to them until they are and we are going to
(12:09):
stand by and do nothing. I'm not. I don't care
what kind of hell rains down on me. This is
so wrong and there are thousands of little girl victims,
little girls. I don't understand it. And another thing, Levine
(12:34):
all this business. At one point Bondie said, I've got
a client list right here on my desk. Now she's
saying there is no client list. Okay, you know what.
There may not be a client list per se, but
the clients will be discernible through investigation. Who was on
those flights, who came to the home. There are thousands
(12:57):
of hours of video, who's in the who was he
making the transfers to and from the money transfers. That's
your client list. You just have to look for it.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, I mean, there's so much material in those FBI files.
There's US marshal reports of flight logs specifically to the
Virgin Islands. There's so much that investigators can dig into.
And I don't understand why it's taken us this long
to get to this point of saying, Hey, what the
(13:29):
hell happened there? And why aren't we bringing people to justice?
And I can't stand the fact that they're making this
into politics. Just release the files, let investigators go through them,
and bring together an international consortium of law enforcement to
apprehend these guys because they're out there.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
I had to guess the other night, Barry that represented
nine and it's growing of the little victims. And they
describe corporate clients, rich guys that want to have sex
with a twelve year old virgin, an American twelve year
(14:15):
old virgin. Why do I care if it's an American because
it's on our soil and we have jurisdiction. I can't
control what's happening in Russia and Turkey and the stands,
but we can't control what's happening in the US. There
are men, and I have prosecuted many of them, and
it's outside the realm of a lot of people's understanding,
(14:36):
and I'm glad that it is. Why should they have
to know this? There are millions of men that would
pay thousands of dollars to a twelve year old. Do
I like it? No? Is it real, Yes, who are
these people and why have they not been brought to justice.
So this lawyer that I interviewed knows who many of
(15:02):
the clients aka John's aka child rapists are, but he's
bound to attorney client privilege and he can't reveal what
his victims have said. It's real. This is not some
wacky conspiracy theory. This is real. Explain to me how
you know it's real.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
It is real, and you know I've been through thousands
of documents. I've been through some confidential court files. There
are men, in fact, Alan Durschwitz who helped I should say,
Jeffrey Epstein get that sweetheart deal as his lead attorney
back in two thousand and eight. He's come out and
(15:44):
said he's aware of the list of men. But the
fact of the matter is none of these individuals are
willing to put these names out.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
And it's going to.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Take, as I said, some type of international law enforcement
group to pull this together to begin going after the men,
not only the men who are in the United States,
but the international fixtures, but also individuals who are in
his circle who.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
He invited to that island.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
We need to get a list or a real wist,
not just some of the redactive flight walls. We need
to get the real lists that's in those documents. And
I'm not saying that every individual who is brought to
that island took part in any criminality. A huge majority
of them probably did not. But there are people that
(16:37):
need to be investigated and.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Put him up. We need to go. Yeah, I got
it bound to pate with you. If an American wanted
to mate with Epstein for any legitimate reason, why not
just mate, you know, at Tiles Bagels in New York.
All right? Why do you have to to his secret
(17:02):
island off the US Virgin Islands, which I would like
to point out is under US sovereignty. Correct, we have
jurisdiction there, but we're doing nothing about it. First, we
got to deal with what's happening right here on our
home soil. Then we can deal with them. But you
have Doug and Doug and Doug, and you have proof
(17:23):
that this happened. What is your strongest evidence, Barry.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
The evidence, as I said, Nancy, is in confidential files.
It is with women who have going through FBI interviews,
is for women who have done depositions. The problem with
a lot of this is that Jeffrey Epstein initially did
(17:49):
a lot of deals to make a lot of this
stuff go away with these women. He paid millions of
dollars and there were settlements. A lot of that material
is under court seal, and someone has to be able
to bring forward those documents, review.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
And come up with a legal way of.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Going after those men, because unless we can get the enablers,
unless we can get the men who took part in
the sext traffick game, we're never going to get any
justice for his victims.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
And that's something that we have married.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
I don't know if you can see the screen or not,
but I want you to look at Epstein. Have you
ever wanted to attack someone? Because when I look at
that smug smile, I literally want to just scratch his
lips off his face. Knowing what I know, I know
(18:50):
this happened, and I know Gilaine Maxwell helped him, and
I know that there are rich guys that will pay
thousands of dollars to him and Elaine Maxwell to have
sex with a twelve year old girl. I know this happened,
and it's not just me spinning it out right here.
There have been Oh I believe my last talent was
(19:14):
around two hundred million dollars settlement with various banks like
Deutsche Bank, for one. But there are many banks with
whom Epstein did business, and that money is dirty money
from sex trafficking. These victims sued and they got millions
(19:36):
of dollars from the banks. You think, let me see,
Barry Levine, Barry Levine, you know how banks are. They
will squeeze a penny out of you. If you write
a check, they'll get a penny, all right. They'll think
of any way. You go to an atm oh get
ready to shell out twenty five dollars for withdrawing money.
(19:58):
They will think of any way to get one penny
from you. Yet they have settled over two hundred million
dollars with Epstein victims. Why why did these banks settle?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Because for years this went on and they looked the
other way. And it was only recently after his death
that the victims and the victims lawyers began piecing this
together and realized that the root of all this is
the money. The famous saying from all the President's men,
(20:35):
the warrigate story follow the money. And I and as
I said, Senator Whyden, is one individual saint who is
actually going after some of these men and going down
that money trail. And why we're going down the money
trail now, I don't understand. This should have happened back
(20:55):
at the time of Jeffrey Epstein's arrest, at the time
of his death. Why we're now, all these years later
finally getting to this. I just don't understand. Because it
was it was all there, It was all there, And
now I'm afraid with the passage of time that a
(21:16):
lot of these men are going to get away.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace. But my question, if you
could boil it down to a nutshell, why did these
big banks fork out over two hundred million dollars settlement
to the girl victims? What did the banks do wrong?
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Banks?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
There were individuals with the bank, with the banks who
took Jeffrey Epstein's money and.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Allegedly looked the other way.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
And in terms of all these funny transactions, the wire transfers,
the billions of dollars that went through these banks. Not
only he had one hundred and fifty six bank accounts,
Jeffrey Epstein, according to his estate so executives of his
estate one hundred and fifty so money was flying all
over the place.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
But there's got to be more barry. It's not just
as somebody to look the other way. When Epstein was
doing questionable bank maneuvers. They didn't pay the settlement to
just anybody. They pay the settlement to sex trafficking girl victims.
Why what's the nexus the banks paid the little girls?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Why because they didn't want bank officials being prosecuted. That's
the way I look at it, because if the Feds
really took a hard look, it's very possible that they
could have brought up some individuals on charges. And the
fact is the banks were willing to Are you trying.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
To say in a very very very roundabout way that
some of the banking officials knew about the child sex trafficking,
that they should have known, or that this money they
were making possible for Epstein was funded by international child
sex trafficking. Isn't that true?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
That is true, Nancy, And in fact, there are some
individuals who have been accused of wrongdoing. But at the
end of the day, there's been settlements because of the
banks in terms of culpability, and no one has ever
been charged related to the banks. Now, there have been
individuals who have lost their jobs related to these banks.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Oh boo hooo, and prosecuted.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
They made money. The banks made money off these girls
and this sex trafficking ring. And can't emphasize it enough.
I typically do not believe in conspiracies because I don't
think people are able to keep their yap shut long
enough to protect a conspiracy. What do I mean by
(24:12):
that example? Oj was framed? No, he wasn't. Because somebody
on the LAPD would make a three million dollar advance
for telling the conspiracy in a big, fat, juicy book
that will be a major motion picture. They'll give up
their badges, they don't care, they'll lose their retirement for
(24:34):
three mili. That never happened. Why because there was no conspiracy.
I don't believe in conspiracies. This I believe in. This
was a multi jurisdictional child sex trafficking ring to the
tune of billions of dollars, as proven by Epstein's banking accounts.
(24:55):
I am talking about Russia, Turkey, the stands, France where
Jean lou Brunnell was sending little girls to Epstein. And
you're right, Levine, Florida was onto him. New York was
(25:16):
onto him. Hence US Virgin Islands, where nobody would know
and nobody would say a damn thing.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
It's the whole thing is tragic. After Jeffrey Epstein's death,
there was one woman in the US Virgin Islands who
was the Attorney General at the time, Denise George, who
took this thing on. While the government wanted to look
the other way, she did the heavy lifting. She began
(25:47):
sending out subpoenas she wanted to investigate his company in
the Virgin Islands.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Called so don't tell me she's dead.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
He is not dead.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
But she was fired from her job because she was
upsetting higher ups in the government because they wanted to
make all this go away. And she went after the estate.
She named the Southern Trust as nothing more than a
(26:17):
criminal enterprise, affront for his sex trafficking, and on her
own without the help of the Southern District in New
York or other prosecutors. From her little island office, she
was subpoenaing billionaire friends of Jeffrey Epstein, trying to get
(26:37):
to the bottom.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Of all this.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
And when she was making so much noise that the
government above her said, you know what, this is what
we don't want to take.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
This investigation on on our own. You've done enough.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
After that, they basically said, we're going to wash your
hands of this. And while when she wanted to do that,
this strong willed woman in ey Storge was fired from
her job, which to me is absolutely horrible because if
there's any good people in this story, she is at
(27:13):
the top of that list because she tried. And now
with the work that she did, it's now in the
hands of the wallmakers and law enforcement in the US
to pick up the pieces of her investigation and go
after these men.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
You know, we keep having people testifying about this. I
would love to hear her testify under oath about what
she learned and what she investigated and who she subpoened
and then got fired, thrown out on the street because
she was exposing Epstein and his wealthy clients. I mean,
forty seven hundred wire transfers to the tune of billion
(27:54):
with the me is in brother of dollars that he
didn't have follow the money. And you know what, at
this moment, off the top of my head, I don't
know if Widen is a Republican or a Democrat, and
I don't care what he is. I just hope Denise,
George and Widen don't end up dead like so many
other people connected to this case. I saw one estimates
(28:17):
up in the twenties people connected to this case now dead.
That's quite the spate of suicides. But before I get
to Jean Luke Burnell or Jenny Giuffrey, many of Epstein's
then child victims. Now they suddenly all commit suicide as
(28:38):
this thing is heating up. Okay, I want to talk
about this is like dirt in my mouth, Gilaine Maxwell,
you know what everybody always talks about. Oh, she's so glamorous,
she's so sophisticated, she's so educated, boring the silver spoon
in her mouth. Do not care. She looks like the
(29:00):
devil to me, because not just one, not just too many,
many of these little girl victims say she was the spider.
She lured them into the web. She didn't just hand
them over to Epstein, a little twelve year old girl
to get She took part in the market. Is that
(29:20):
so hard for people to believe? It's real? They all
said it. Not just one girl, not just two, but
many little girls said she them. She's evil.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, I mean, the the only way she justified this she.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Told friends, and I quoted them in my book.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
She said to me, these girls are nothing but trash.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
He basically, okay, stop stop, stop, put him up, put
him up. I have that written in my notes, and
I didn't say it because it's very hurtful. You know.
I think about the girls twelve, and I remember coming home,
(30:09):
I'll latch key kid on a red dirt road in
the middle of nowhere. Mom and dad both at work.
These girls came home, nobody was there until they befriended
Gilaine Maxwell, and she said, and you quote, these girls
(30:34):
are nothing but trash.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
And we have to we have to see that down
because there are people who want to see her sentence lessened.
There are people around her who want to see her
pardoned by the president. We have to continue to remind
the public what heard you was of these women. For
(31:02):
these girls at the.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Times, girls some of them hadn't even had a period.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
For Pete's sake, but we have to keep on pounding
this point because she was She brought these girls to Epstein, not.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Only so he content, but she also took part in
the sexual abuse. And we have to keep her behind bars.
She's an animal, and she deserved the sentence for brave
women testified against her at her trial. One of them
(31:41):
died of an accidental drug overdose. Because these women still
suffering to this day. They still can't many of them
still can't move beyond their childhood's being taken by these
two the predatory Bonnie and Clyde as I called him
in my book, But even calling them a Bonnie and Clyde,
(32:05):
it is not nice enough in terms of what they did.
They were both sexual predators. They were both animals. And
she needs not that receives a being a minimum security
camp where she is now in Texas. She should be
in an absolute maximum security facility. It's horrible in terms
(32:27):
of how she is manipulating individuals in the government right
now to get what she wants.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
And that's wrong.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Crime stories with Nancy Gray find everyone because it's getting
lost in the sauce that the reason Gilene Maxwell is
convicted right now and sentenced to twenty years is because
four then little girls testified against her. Scrawny bony rear
(33:08):
end about them and I know you don't want to
think about it, but you have to judge the facts,
even if they taste bad. Going down, she was convicted
from little girls herself. What does she do hold them
(33:28):
down while he ran them digitally them? I don't know
what she did, but hold that in your mind when
you look at her picture. Hold that in your mind
when you try to figure out if Elaine Max WILLI
(33:48):
ever tell the truth? There's only one way she may
tell part of the truth, and that's to save her
own skin. What can she offer us? Why do I
even want her? That's doing a deal with the devil
of aid.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
It is and the government has already accused her of perjury.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
So anything she says, anything that comes.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Out of her mouth, has to be collaborated by fact,
has to be coroborated by documents, has to be cooberated
by other victims. We can't take anything that she said
that's truthful because she has lied from the very very beginning.
(34:29):
And it is appalling that that officials even went out
of their way to go down to Florida to interview her. Okay,
she was being treated like she was a special v
I p to me that was so wrong. But listen,
(34:54):
if she if she.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Of child abuse. He's got there were ten thousand tapes.
Every place he had was blanketed in video cams. In fact,
do you point this out? Levan And a lot of
people didn't know this that he actually had local police
Billie come to his place in Florida to set up
(35:19):
the video cams to catch people stealing from him. In
other words, video John's rich. John's having twelve year old
little girls, That's why. And they went along with it
and set up the video cams in his place.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, it's disturbing in terms of how a police department
in Palm Beach. Jeffrey Epstein gave money in terms of
charities to the police. He called on them and said, Hey,
I've got employees stealing from me. Would you come over
here and help me set up secret surveillance cameras and
(36:00):
my home. They went over there and they did that,
and he ended up using those cameras to record not
only his own criminality but also that of other individuals.
And we still don't know where all these tapes are.
He had homes in Palm Beach, he had his townhouse
(36:20):
in New York, he had his ranch, the Zoro Ranch
in New Mexico. He had of course the island in
the Virgin Islands, and then he had the apartment in Paris.
He had each and every one of his homes wired
for secret surveillance. So there's thousands and thousands and thousands
(36:41):
of capes and the government is sitting on some material.
But I also believe that there's other tapes that are
out there. I tell a story of my book about
how incense one detective from Palm Beach was as after
Epstein received that slap on the wrist, because they had
(37:04):
compiled forty victims initially in their investigation, and this detective
allegedly turned over evidence to an individual who now is
in Russia and apparently has some of that material. So
(37:24):
who has that material? Do the Russians have that material?
The authorities over there have that material? Is it blackmail material?
Speaker 3 (37:32):
We don't know.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
There is so much that still has to be done
related to this case.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Barry, why are we why have we been lied to?
Why are we not getting the files?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
You know, we were promised that this was going to
be the most transparent presidency in history. I'm going to
get the JFK files and Martin Luther King files. President
Trump was asked during the campaign would he release the
Jeffrey Epstein files. He said he would. He put him
(38:06):
in the hands of Pam Bondi, who promised that she
was going to release the files. And then over fourth
of July week and we were stonewalled. We received a
two page memo that basically said, Jeffrey Epstein died behind bars,
there was nothing nefarious about his death, there was no
(38:30):
client lists, there's no blackmail, and everybody basically go home.
It reminded me of the scene and Wizard of Oz
where Dorothy they killed the witch and she takes the
broom and the wizards basically says thank you, but you
can all go home. Now, you can all leave. I'm
(38:51):
gonna I'm not gonna help you. Why are we being
stonewalled on the files? This we don't know. Are there
names of individuals that they're trying to protect what's in
the files that's so sensitive and so secret that they
can't share that material with the American public and with
(39:15):
his victims, And of course there should be redactions of
victims and information about the victims, and there's information about
some third parties that maybe weren't involved with us. You
have to remember that Jeffrey Epstein lived in two worlds.
He lived in his criminality and then he also lived
(39:35):
in this world of celebrities, scientists, barbered.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
School officials.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Would he would hold symposiums and seminars and fly important
people down to his island to talk about scientific things
that he found fascinating. So he was blurring the.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Whatever, and then they got twelve year old. Okay, so there.
I got to tell you something, Barry. I love our
country and I love deeply our justice system. It was
my savior after my fiance was murdered, and I am
(40:22):
loyal to our country regardless of who's in the White House.
But I have to tell you I feel sick over
this because our government, our own government that we elected,
is hiding this evidence. And I think it precedes this administration.
(40:45):
It was hidden before this. It goes all the way
back that I know of, to a cover up in
Palm Beach long before. In this White House administration, our
government is covering up for the wealthy and privilege, and
the little girls are being treated like trash, just like
(41:07):
Elaine Maxwell called them.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
I'm embarrassed and sickened, but not disabled. What can we do,
if anything, to get justice, Barry?
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Well, right now, we have to hope that these lawmakers
who are bringing in individuals, and apparently they've been promised
that the Justice Department is going to begin turning over
the files. It's a small step, but at least someone
(41:45):
is going to get their hands on some of this material.
And they're promising that eventually the American public will see
this and see the transcripts of the depositions that they're
that they're taking small step, but it's something. But what's
infuriating is that with one executive order or a signature,
(42:10):
we could have the public could have all of these
documents for the proper investigators to go through and determine
are there individuals that need to be brought to justice.
And until that happens, none of us can ever rest.
We have to keep up pressure on the government, our
(42:32):
government to do the right thing.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Nobody's going to do the right thing until they're threatened financially,
until they think they're going to lose their job, they're
going to get sued. That's the only time, unless they're
threatened with exposure, then they might come clean when it
comes right down to the wire. I've learned so much
(42:55):
from your essay in the New York Times and from
your book The Spider Inside The Tangled web of Jeffrey
Epstein and Gilain Maxwell Barry.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Thank you, Thank you, Nancy.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
We remember an American hero Officer, Brian Hawkins, Lake CITYPD, Georgia,
killed in the line of duty after serving twenty two
years in LA, leaving behind his grieving wife, Renee. American
hero Officer Brian Hawkins. Nancy Gray signing off, I'll see
(43:34):
you tomorrow night, and until then, good night friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace at this hour, as the
country is seemingly torn in half over the release of
the so called Epstein files and the Epstein client list,
we have proof that Jeffrey Epstein's child sex trafficking ring
(00:25):
spans much further than just the US. I'm talking about
proof that girls as young as twelve years old were
flown from various countries to Epstein's Island, where they were
handed over like a pizza delivery to Jeffrey Epstein and
(00:49):
his wealthy clients. It's like a dirt sandwich in my mouth.
Why has this not been uncovered? I mean, I see, Grace,
this is Clime Stories. I want to thank you for
being with us. Joining us tonight is a very special guest,
Barry Levine. Barry is the author of an incredible book
(01:13):
called Listen to This, The Spider Inside the Tangled Web
of Jeffrey Epstein and Elaine Maxwell. Wow. He is a
veteran investigative reporter and editor both in print and in TV. Barry,
(01:33):
you devoted a huge chunk of your life to writing
this book about Epstein and Maxwell, and it is amazing.
I've got so many questions for you, but I want
to start with something we don't normally hear about. Regarding Epstein,
I've done a lot of research on this, but I'm
sure you have outdone me. I want to talk about
(01:58):
the US Virgin Islands. Why do I want to talk
about that because we've been focusing a lot, as has
the public, on the Epstein files. Even though we were
promised they would be released, it hasn't happened. I smell
a rat now. I could go down that road. But
(02:19):
there's something I'd like you to educate everyone about, okay,
and that is the fact that Epstein wasn't just finding
teen girls in Florida that were usually underprivileged, single parent home,
no money, no hopes. He wasn't just preying on them.
(02:42):
At his height, he had about, give or take five
hundred and six hundred million dollars, yet he was trading
moving billions bizin brother billions of dollars. Now, everybody that
has a bank account knows you can't transfer more money
(03:03):
than you have. I want to know where the money
is coming from. And regarding the US Virgin Islands, this
sex child sex trafficking ring is a lot bigger than
a few girls down upon beach. We are talking about Europe.
We are talking about Eastern Europe. We are talking about children,
(03:25):
girls as young as twelve years old, being put on
planes and flown to the US Virgin Islands, delivered like
a pizza to Jeffrey Epstein, and then his French counterpart,
Jean le Brunelle, is dead behind bars. Wow, what a coincidink.
(03:48):
You have uncovered evidence that this is a world wide operation.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Explain that's absolutely correct, Nancy, And I'm hoping that if
we ever get into these Epstein files, three hundred gigabytes
of material that hundreds of thousands of pages, that we
will help uncover the enablers who assisted Jeffrey Epstein. Now names.
(04:19):
You have to remember that after Jeffrey Epstein received that
slap on the risk conviction down in Florida in two
thousand and eight. It's part of that non prosecution agreement
in which he only had to plead guilty to state
charges for solicitation of a minor and was given a
(04:39):
sweetheart deal of fourteen months behind bars, which most.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Of the time he was l I just want to
tell you something. You're actually making my stomach hurt. It's
actually hurting right now. If i'd have gotten a hold
of this guy, he would have been under the jail.
Under the jail, he actually had his limo pick him up,
his limo at the Palmies jail and drive him wherever
(05:07):
he wanted to go. That's not punishment. So who is
covering for this guy? Well, at this point he's dead,
so he's not getting covered. Somebody else is covering for
somebody else. But I'm sorry I interrupted. Please go ahead,
(05:28):
absolutely right, Nancy.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
It was sickening in terms of that slap on the
wrist in Florida. At the time, the FBI wanted to
put him away for seventy five years, and then he
got that sweetheart deal. And when he was out on
work release, he had a ankle bracelet and he was
having sex, as I reported in my book with Victims,
(05:50):
while he had the ankle monitor on his leg.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Anyway, Okay, hold on, I gotta just hold that image
in my mind. And I used to tellys, I know
it's disgusting. You may go home and vomit, but you
have to think about it. You have to think about this. Okay,
I'm going to make you think about it, Levine. Jeffrey
Epstein naked on his massage table with Gilaine Maxwell, not
(06:18):
just present, but actually girls with him. Let's think about that.
And when you say victims, little girls, and I believe
you can prove this. Little girls as young as twelve
being flown from Russia, Turkey, and beyond two the Virgin Islands,
(06:41):
delivered directly to Jeffrey Epstein. There are witnesses that see
the little girls getting off the plane and going to
his mansion, not just one, not just to a steady string.
There are thousands of victims, which leads me to who
(07:02):
and the hell are the other men that can are
wealthy enough to pay to fly to US Virgin Islands
and have with a twelve year old girl. By god,
I am not letting this go le Vain.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
And you shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
And the American public and the victims, over a thousand
victims want answers.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
And that's why we.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Need to open up these FBI files, because we need
to find the men who put these girls on plane.
They didn't get on planes themselves. There were men in
these remote locations in Russia, in Turkey, in tur Mecca, Stan,
Eastern European countries. Jeffrey Epstein was afraid of the Pombeach Police.
(07:46):
He was afraid of the NYPD after that slap on
the risk conviction, so he moved his sex trafficking too
his island in the Virgin Island, and there he used enablers.
And you mentioned one Jean Luke Brunell, who was a
French modeling agent who after Jeffrey Epstein's death, he himself
ended up behind bars in Paris on charges and mysteriously
(08:10):
also died behind bars in a similar fashion to Jeffrey Epstein.
And we still don't have answers to how John Luke
Brunell actually died, but we do know that he was
one of the men who was one of the enabors
who put these young girls on planes. Once they arrived
at the airport in the Virgin Islands, they were then
(08:30):
ferried by boat to Jeffrey Epstein's house on Little Saint James,
and we know that it was horrific. He made the
girls call him the godfather. He had a gun strap
to one of his bedposts. One victim was so terrified
that she actually attempted to swim off the island, only
(08:53):
to turn back when she realized the water currents and
so forth. This was a the horrors that Jeffrey Epstein
brought these girls to and only now are we beginning to.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Learn some of the circumstances.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I have to applaud Senator Ron White in the Oregon
who is looking into the forty seven hundred wire transfers
totally one billion dollars of money that Jeffrey Epstein used
to pay out these enablers and others. The money was
(09:29):
put through Russian banks. We need to get down to
the bottom of all this. We need him to continue
his investigation, and we absolutely need to dig into those
FBI files to see if there are men out there
that the US could work with other governments on in
terms of bringing some of these enablers to justice.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
You know, you said this was an island of horrors
in the one little girl tried to swim away. I mean,
of course, I'm projecting about my life, little girl. This's tiny,
tiny little thing, even now at seventeen, at age twelve, Okay,
when I was age twelve, I didn't even know what
(10:10):
a period was. When my front store neighbor told me,
I thought it was a joke. Twelve year old girls,
and now hold that thought in your mind. A twelve
year old little girl fourth fifth grade. Somebody puts her
on a plane with other little girls, a private plane.
She is flown to Epstein's Island, two miles from shore.
(10:37):
She's thrown to the mainland, and then she's ferried to
the island. I've learned from research. Why am I saying
all this because there's a chain a private plane and
let's just pretend Russia or one of the stands. Somebody
(11:00):
has a log of the pop private plane. That plane
brings little girls to the mainland USVII. Then they get
off the plane. Somebody sees them getting off the plane,
and there are witnesses, you know, there are witnesses about
the little girls filing off the plane. Then they get
onto a ferry. Why do I care? Because that gives
(11:21):
me other witnesses. The captain, the crew that fairy the
little girls and hand them over to Epstein. Somebody meets
them at the ferry and brings them in. Now twelve
years old, what seventy pounds, sixty pounds maybe? Virginia's You're
Freight describes being taken into the massage room where she
(11:44):
is put on top of Epstein and heed her and
then they give her two hundred dollars and send her
on our way. These girls twelve years old, many if
not all of them Virgin not knowing what was happening
to them until they are and we are going to
(12:09):
stand by and do nothing. I'm not. I don't care
what kind of hell rains down on me. This is
so wrong and there are thousands of little girl victims,
little girls. I don't understand it. And another thing, Levine
(12:34):
all this business. At one point Bondie said, I've got
a client list right here on my desk. Now she's
saying there is no client list. Okay, you know what.
There may not be a client list per se, but
the clients will be discernible through investigation. Who was on
those flights, who came to the home. There are thousands
(12:57):
of hours of video, who's in the who was he
making the transfers to and from the money transfers. That's
your client list. You just have to look for it.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Yeah, I mean, there's so much material in those FBI files.
There's US marshal reports of flight logs specifically to the
Virgin Islands. There's so much that investigators can dig into.
And I don't understand why it's taken us this long
to get to this point of saying, Hey, what the
(13:29):
hell happened there? And why aren't we bringing people to justice?
And I can't stand the fact that they're making this
into politics. Just release the files, let investigators go through them,
and bring together an international consortium of law enforcement to
apprehend these guys because they're out there.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
I had to guess the other night, Barry that represented
nine and it's growing of the little victims. And they
describe corporate clients, rich guys that want to have sex
with a twelve year old virgin, an American twelve year
(14:15):
old virgin. Why do I care if it's an American because
it's on our soil and we have jurisdiction. I can't
control what's happening in Russia and Turkey and the stands,
but we can't control what's happening in the US. There
are men, and I have prosecuted many of them, and
it's outside the realm of a lot of people's understanding,
(14:36):
and I'm glad that it is. Why should they have
to know this? There are millions of men that would
pay thousands of dollars to a twelve year old. Do
I like it? No? Is it real, Yes, who are
these people and why have they not been brought to justice.
So this lawyer that I interviewed knows who many of
(15:02):
the clients aka John's aka child rapists are, but he's
bound to attorney client privilege and he can't reveal what
his victims have said. It's real. This is not some
wacky conspiracy theory. This is real. Explain to me how
you know it's real.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
It is real, and you know I've been through thousands
of documents. I've been through some confidential court files. There
are men, in fact, Alan Durschwitz who helped I should say,
Jeffrey Epstein get that sweetheart deal as his lead attorney
back in two thousand and eight. He's come out and
(15:44):
said he's aware of the list of men. But the
fact of the matter is none of these individuals are
willing to put these names out.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
And it's going to.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Take, as I said, some type of international law enforcement
group to pull this together to begin going after the men,
not only the men who are in the United States,
but the international fixtures, but also individuals who are in
his circle who.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
He invited to that island.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
We need to get a list or a real wist,
not just some of the redactive flight walls. We need
to get the real lists that's in those documents. And
I'm not saying that every individual who is brought to
that island took part in any criminality. A huge majority
of them probably did not. But there are people that
(16:37):
need to be investigated and.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Put him up. We need to go. Yeah, I got
it bound to pate with you. If an American wanted
to mate with Epstein for any legitimate reason, why not
just mate, you know, at Tiles Bagels in New York.
All right? Why do you have to to his secret
(17:02):
island off the US Virgin Islands, which I would like
to point out is under US sovereignty. Correct, we have
jurisdiction there, but we're doing nothing about it. First, we
got to deal with what's happening right here on our
home soil. Then we can deal with them. But you
have Doug and Doug and Doug, and you have proof
(17:23):
that this happened. What is your strongest evidence, Barry.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
The evidence, as I said, Nancy, is in confidential files.
It is with women who have going through FBI interviews,
is for women who have done depositions. The problem with
a lot of this is that Jeffrey Epstein initially did
(17:49):
a lot of deals to make a lot of this
stuff go away with these women. He paid millions of
dollars and there were settlements. A lot of that material
is under court seal, and someone has to be able
to bring forward those documents, review.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
And come up with a legal way of.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Going after those men, because unless we can get the enablers,
unless we can get the men who took part in
the sext traffick game, we're never going to get any
justice for his victims.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
And that's something that we have married.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
I don't know if you can see the screen or not,
but I want you to look at Epstein. Have you
ever wanted to attack someone? Because when I look at
that smug smile, I literally want to just scratch his
lips off his face. Knowing what I know, I know
(18:50):
this happened, and I know Gilaine Maxwell helped him, and
I know that there are rich guys that will pay
thousands of dollars to him and Elaine Maxwell to have
sex with a twelve year old girl. I know this happened,
and it's not just me spinning it out right here.
There have been Oh I believe my last talent was
(19:14):
around two hundred million dollars settlement with various banks like
Deutsche Bank, for one. But there are many banks with
whom Epstein did business, and that money is dirty money
from sex trafficking. These victims sued and they got millions
(19:36):
of dollars from the banks. You think, let me see,
Barry Levine, Barry Levine, you know how banks are. They
will squeeze a penny out of you. If you write
a check, they'll get a penny, all right. They'll think
of any way. You go to an atm oh get
ready to shell out twenty five dollars for withdrawing money.
(19:58):
They will think of any way to get one penny
from you. Yet they have settled over two hundred million
dollars with Epstein victims. Why why did these banks settle?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Because for years this went on and they looked the
other way. And it was only recently after his death
that the victims and the victims lawyers began piecing this
together and realized that the root of all this is
the money. The famous saying from all the President's men,
(20:35):
the warrigate story follow the money. And I and as
I said, Senator Whyden, is one individual saint who is
actually going after some of these men and going down
that money trail. And why we're going down the money
trail now, I don't understand. This should have happened back
(20:55):
at the time of Jeffrey Epstein's arrest, at the time
of his death. Why we're now, all these years later
finally getting to this. I just don't understand. Because it
was it was all there, It was all there, And
now I'm afraid with the passage of time that a
(21:16):
lot of these men are going to get away.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace. But my question, if you
could boil it down to a nutshell, why did these
big banks fork out over two hundred million dollars settlement
to the girl victims? What did the banks do wrong?
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Banks?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
There were individuals with the bank, with the banks who
took Jeffrey Epstein's money and.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Allegedly looked the other way.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
And in terms of all these funny transactions, the wire transfers,
the billions of dollars that went through these banks. Not
only he had one hundred and fifty six bank accounts,
Jeffrey Epstein, according to his estate so executives of his
estate one hundred and fifty so money was flying all
over the place.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
But there's got to be more barry. It's not just
as somebody to look the other way. When Epstein was
doing questionable bank maneuvers. They didn't pay the settlement to
just anybody. They pay the settlement to sex trafficking girl victims.
Why what's the nexus the banks paid the little girls?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Why because they didn't want bank officials being prosecuted. That's
the way I look at it, because if the Feds
really took a hard look, it's very possible that they
could have brought up some individuals on charges. And the
fact is the banks were willing to Are you trying.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
To say in a very very very roundabout way that
some of the banking officials knew about the child sex trafficking,
that they should have known, or that this money they
were making possible for Epstein was funded by international child
sex trafficking. Isn't that true?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
That is true, Nancy, And in fact, there are some
individuals who have been accused of wrongdoing. But at the
end of the day, there's been settlements because of the
banks in terms of culpability, and no one has ever
been charged related to the banks. Now, there have been
individuals who have lost their jobs related to these banks.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Oh boo hooo, and prosecuted.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
They made money. The banks made money off these girls
and this sex trafficking ring. And can't emphasize it enough.
I typically do not believe in conspiracies because I don't
think people are able to keep their yap shut long
enough to protect a conspiracy. What do I mean by
(24:12):
that example? Oj was framed? No, he wasn't. Because somebody
on the LAPD would make a three million dollar advance
for telling the conspiracy in a big, fat, juicy book
that will be a major motion picture. They'll give up
their badges, they don't care, they'll lose their retirement for
(24:34):
three mili. That never happened. Why because there was no conspiracy.
I don't believe in conspiracies. This I believe in. This
was a multi jurisdictional child sex trafficking ring to the
tune of billions of dollars, as proven by Epstein's banking accounts.
(24:55):
I am talking about Russia, Turkey, the stands, France where
Jean lou Brunnell was sending little girls to Epstein. And
you're right, Levine, Florida was onto him. New York was
(25:16):
onto him. Hence US Virgin Islands, where nobody would know
and nobody would say a damn thing.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
It's the whole thing is tragic. After Jeffrey Epstein's death,
there was one woman in the US Virgin Islands who
was the Attorney General at the time, Denise George, who
took this thing on. While the government wanted to look
the other way, she did the heavy lifting. She began
(25:47):
sending out subpoenas she wanted to investigate his company in
the Virgin Islands.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Called so don't tell me she's dead.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
He is not dead.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
But she was fired from her job because she was
upsetting higher ups in the government because they wanted to
make all this go away. And she went after the estate.
She named the Southern Trust as nothing more than a
(26:17):
criminal enterprise, affront for his sex trafficking, and on her
own without the help of the Southern District in New
York or other prosecutors. From her little island office, she
was subpoenaing billionaire friends of Jeffrey Epstein, trying to get
(26:37):
to the bottom.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
Of all this.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
And when she was making so much noise that the
government above her said, you know what, this is what
we don't want to take.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
This investigation on on our own. You've done enough.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
After that, they basically said, we're going to wash your
hands of this. And while when she wanted to do that,
this strong willed woman in ey Storge was fired from
her job, which to me is absolutely horrible because if
there's any good people in this story, she is at
(27:13):
the top of that list because she tried. And now
with the work that she did, it's now in the
hands of the wallmakers and law enforcement in the US
to pick up the pieces of her investigation and go
after these men.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
You know, we keep having people testifying about this. I
would love to hear her testify under oath about what
she learned and what she investigated and who she subpoened
and then got fired, thrown out on the street because
she was exposing Epstein and his wealthy clients. I mean,
forty seven hundred wire transfers to the tune of billion
(27:54):
with the me is in brother of dollars that he
didn't have follow the money. And you know what, at
this moment, off the top of my head, I don't
know if Widen is a Republican or a Democrat, and
I don't care what he is. I just hope Denise,
George and Widen don't end up dead like so many
other people connected to this case. I saw one estimates
(28:17):
up in the twenties people connected to this case now dead.
That's quite the spate of suicides. But before I get
to Jean Luke Burnell or Jenny Giuffrey, many of Epstein's
then child victims. Now they suddenly all commit suicide as
(28:38):
this thing is heating up. Okay, I want to talk
about this is like dirt in my mouth, Gilaine Maxwell,
you know what everybody always talks about. Oh, she's so glamorous,
she's so sophisticated, she's so educated, boring the silver spoon
in her mouth. Do not care. She looks like the
(29:00):
devil to me, because not just one, not just too many,
many of these little girl victims say she was the spider.
She lured them into the web. She didn't just hand
them over to Epstein, a little twelve year old girl
to get She took part in the market. Is that
(29:20):
so hard for people to believe? It's real? They all
said it. Not just one girl, not just two, but
many little girls said she them. She's evil.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, I mean, the the only way she justified this she.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Told friends, and I quoted them in my book.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
She said to me, these girls are nothing but trash.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
He basically, okay, stop stop, stop, put him up, put
him up. I have that written in my notes, and
I didn't say it because it's very hurtful. You know.
I think about the girls twelve, and I remember coming home,
(30:09):
I'll latch key kid on a red dirt road in
the middle of nowhere. Mom and dad both at work.
These girls came home, nobody was there until they befriended
Gilaine Maxwell, and she said, and you quote, these girls
(30:34):
are nothing but trash.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
And we have to we have to see that down
because there are people who want to see her sentence lessened.
There are people around her who want to see her
pardoned by the president. We have to continue to remind
the public what heard you was of these women. For
(31:02):
these girls at the.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Times, girls some of them hadn't even had a period.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
For Pete's sake, but we have to keep on pounding
this point because she was She brought these girls to Epstein, not.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Only so he content, but she also took part in
the sexual abuse. And we have to keep her behind bars.
She's an animal, and she deserved the sentence for brave
women testified against her at her trial. One of them
(31:41):
died of an accidental drug overdose. Because these women still
suffering to this day. They still can't many of them
still can't move beyond their childhood's being taken by these
two the predatory Bonnie and Clyde as I called him
in my book, But even calling them a Bonnie and Clyde,
(32:05):
it is not nice enough in terms of what they did.
They were both sexual predators. They were both animals. And
she needs not that receives a being a minimum security
camp where she is now in Texas. She should be
in an absolute maximum security facility. It's horrible in terms
(32:27):
of how she is manipulating individuals in the government right
now to get what she wants.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
And that's wrong.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Crime stories with Nancy Gray find everyone because it's getting
lost in the sauce that the reason Gilene Maxwell is
convicted right now and sentenced to twenty years is because
four then little girls testified against her. Scrawny bony rear
(33:08):
end about them and I know you don't want to
think about it, but you have to judge the facts,
even if they taste bad. Going down, she was convicted
from little girls herself. What does she do hold them
(33:28):
down while he ran them digitally them? I don't know
what she did, but hold that in your mind when
you look at her picture. Hold that in your mind
when you try to figure out if Elaine Max WILLI
(33:48):
ever tell the truth? There's only one way she may
tell part of the truth, and that's to save her
own skin. What can she offer us? Why do I
even want her? That's doing a deal with the devil
of aid.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
It is and the government has already accused her of perjury.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
So anything she says, anything that comes.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Out of her mouth, has to be collaborated by fact,
has to be coroborated by documents, has to be cooberated
by other victims. We can't take anything that she said
that's truthful because she has lied from the very very beginning.
(34:29):
And it is appalling that that officials even went out
of their way to go down to Florida to interview her. Okay,
she was being treated like she was a special v
I p to me that was so wrong. But listen,
(34:54):
if she if she.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Of child abuse. He's got there were ten thousand tapes.
Every place he had was blanketed in video cams. In fact,
do you point this out? Levan And a lot of
people didn't know this that he actually had local police
Billie come to his place in Florida to set up
(35:19):
the video cams to catch people stealing from him. In
other words, video John's rich. John's having twelve year old
little girls, That's why. And they went along with it
and set up the video cams in his place.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Yeah, it's disturbing in terms of how a police department
in Palm Beach. Jeffrey Epstein gave money in terms of
charities to the police. He called on them and said, Hey,
I've got employees stealing from me. Would you come over
here and help me set up secret surveillance cameras and
(36:00):
my home. They went over there and they did that,
and he ended up using those cameras to record not
only his own criminality but also that of other individuals.
And we still don't know where all these tapes are.
He had homes in Palm Beach, he had his townhouse
(36:20):
in New York, he had his ranch, the Zoro Ranch
in New Mexico. He had of course the island in
the Virgin Islands, and then he had the apartment in Paris.
He had each and every one of his homes wired
for secret surveillance. So there's thousands and thousands and thousands
(36:41):
of capes and the government is sitting on some material.
But I also believe that there's other tapes that are
out there. I tell a story of my book about
how incense one detective from Palm Beach was as after
Epstein received that slap on the wrist, because they had
(37:04):
compiled forty victims initially in their investigation, and this detective
allegedly turned over evidence to an individual who now is
in Russia and apparently has some of that material. So
(37:24):
who has that material? Do the Russians have that material?
The authorities over there have that material? Is it blackmail material?
Speaker 3 (37:32):
We don't know.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
There is so much that still has to be done
related to this case.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Barry, why are we why have we been lied to?
Why are we not getting the files?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
You know, we were promised that this was going to
be the most transparent presidency in history. I'm going to
get the JFK files and Martin Luther King files. President
Trump was asked during the campaign would he release the
Jeffrey Epstein files. He said he would. He put him
(38:06):
in the hands of Pam Bondi, who promised that she
was going to release the files. And then over fourth
of July week and we were stonewalled. We received a
two page memo that basically said, Jeffrey Epstein died behind bars,
there was nothing nefarious about his death, there was no
(38:30):
client lists, there's no blackmail, and everybody basically go home.
It reminded me of the scene and Wizard of Oz
where Dorothy they killed the witch and she takes the
broom and the wizards basically says thank you, but you
can all go home. Now, you can all leave. I'm
(38:51):
gonna I'm not gonna help you. Why are we being
stonewalled on the files? This we don't know. Are there
names of individuals that they're trying to protect what's in
the files that's so sensitive and so secret that they
can't share that material with the American public and with
(39:15):
his victims, And of course there should be redactions of
victims and information about the victims, and there's information about
some third parties that maybe weren't involved with us. You
have to remember that Jeffrey Epstein lived in two worlds.
He lived in his criminality and then he also lived
(39:35):
in this world of celebrities, scientists, barbered.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
School officials.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Would he would hold symposiums and seminars and fly important
people down to his island to talk about scientific things
that he found fascinating. So he was blurring the.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Whatever, and then they got twelve year old. Okay, so there.
I got to tell you something, Barry. I love our
country and I love deeply our justice system. It was
my savior after my fiance was murdered, and I am
(40:22):
loyal to our country regardless of who's in the White House.
But I have to tell you I feel sick over
this because our government, our own government that we elected,
is hiding this evidence. And I think it precedes this administration.
(40:45):
It was hidden before this. It goes all the way
back that I know of, to a cover up in
Palm Beach long before. In this White House administration, our
government is covering up for the wealthy and privilege, and
the little girls are being treated like trash, just like
(41:07):
Elaine Maxwell called them.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
I'm embarrassed and sickened, but not disabled. What can we do,
if anything, to get justice, Barry?
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Well, right now, we have to hope that these lawmakers
who are bringing in individuals, and apparently they've been promised
that the Justice Department is going to begin turning over
the files. It's a small step, but at least someone
(41:45):
is going to get their hands on some of this material.
And they're promising that eventually the American public will see
this and see the transcripts of the depositions that they're
that they're taking small step, but it's something. But what's
infuriating is that with one executive order or a signature,
(42:10):
we could have the public could have all of these
documents for the proper investigators to go through and determine
are there individuals that need to be brought to justice.
And until that happens, none of us can ever rest.
We have to keep up pressure on the government, our
(42:32):
government to do the right thing.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Nobody's going to do the right thing until they're threatened financially,
until they think they're going to lose their job, they're
going to get sued. That's the only time, unless they're
threatened with exposure, then they might come clean when it
comes right down to the wire. I've learned so much
(42:55):
from your essay in the New York Times and from
your book The Spider Inside The Tangled web of Jeffrey
Epstein and Gilain Maxwell Barry.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Thank you, Thank you, Nancy.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
We remember an American hero Officer, Brian Hawkins, Lake CITYPD, Georgia,
killed in the line of duty after serving twenty two
years in LA, leaving behind his grieving wife, Renee. American
hero Officer Brian Hawkins. Nancy Gray signing off, I'll see
(43:34):
you tomorrow night, and until then, good night friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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