December 27, 2025 • 46 mins
A new trial date has been set for Tyler McCain, the man charged with killing his wife, Nikki Cheng Saelee-McCain.
McCain is facing 12 charges and multiple special allegations, including one that he killed his wife to prevent her from testifying against him in court over domestic violence charges. The jury trial was supposed to start on November 18, but McCain’s lawyer, Michael Borges, asked for more time, given the mounds of documentation provided by the prosecution.
Shasta Superior Court Judge Adam B. Ryan set the trial date for March 17, 2026. A trial readiness hearing will be held on March 11 to ensure both parties are prepared for the trial.
As of today, Nikki is still missing and presumed dead.
Redding Police detective Jeremiah Kessinger said Nikki's sister, Chloe Saelee, texted with Nikki regularly, and there was always a response until May 19. Family members talked with Nikki on May 18, but on May 19, she never answered a text from Chloe.
Nikki told Chloe about domestic violence in the relationship, and McCain went so far as to point a gun directly at Nikki and threaten to kill her and her family members.
In court, Detective Maul played an audio recording of Nikki McCain describing being assaulted by her husband, Tyler McCain. The recording was done in a hospital emergency room, where Nikki showed up to give the police a statement.
Nikki says, "He pushed me on the ground. And he started hitting me. He was just enraged; he was so angry."
Nikki estimates the attack lasted three hours.
Tyler McCain has pleaded not guilty to the murder charges.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Kaye Ford - Nikki's sister
- Chloe Saelee - Nikki's sister
- Philip Dubé - Court-Appointed Counsel, Los Angeles County Public Defenders: Criminal & Constitutional Law; Forensics & Mental Health Advocacy; X: PhilipCDube, IG: PhilipDube, YouTube: PhilipDube3922
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker," and featured in hit show "Paris in Love" on Peacock; Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLive
- Brian Fitzgibbons - VP of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security; Instagram: @uspa_nationwide_security, Kingsman Philanthropic's 2022 rescue missions of women and children in Ukraine, Iraq War Veteranide_security
- Jeff Gentry – Forensics-Crime Scene Investigator, Certified Bloodstain Pattern Analyst and Death Investigator, Former Toxicology Lab Analyst; Author: “A Visual Guide to Bloodstain Pattern Analysis: Bloodstain Pattern Analysis for Death and Crime Scene Investigators;” TikTok: @jeffreygentryBPA, Facebook: Jeff Gentry Bloodstain Pattern Analyst
- Dave Mack - Crime Stories Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Devastated sisters here grizzly facts
in the missing Nikki Chang case now upgraded to murder.
But where's the body? I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories.
(00:23):
I want to thank you for being with us. Mom's
Chevy is found abandoned on a remote country road. Nicky's
case is a homicide investigation. There are several assaults on Niki.
(00:48):
A brutal assault on Nikki prior to her disappearing, prior
to her Chevy being found abandoned on a remote country road.
She thought she was going to die. Where is NICKI?
A brutal assault at the hands of this guy some
time became us.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Nickie was the first role.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I would like to thank starts office w I for
getting involved any efforts to give my health, my wife
home safe.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Uh, we miss you.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
He's kind of fumbling around. Listen to more of that.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
I really know.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
I haven't been in the public guys, and I've been
done very well with it.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Apologized every one, especially my children, my wife's family.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
My name is as well. I'm just hearing support such
anything that I can do, I want to do that.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I want you to hear this Nancy.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
A new trial date set for Tyler McCain, the man
charged with killing his wife, Nikki Chang Sale McCain. McCain
faces twelve charges and multiple special allegations, including one that
he killed his wife to prevent her from testifying against
him in court over domestic violence charges. The jury trial
was supposed to start November eighteenth, but McCain's lawyer, Michael Borges,
(02:26):
asked for more time given the mounds of documentation provided
by the prosecution. Shasta Superior Court Judge Adam b Ryan
set the trial date for March seventeenth, twenty twenty six.
A trial readiness hearing will be held on March eleventh
to ensure both parties are ready for the trial.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
How did we get here? With me? Defense attorney Philip
Dubay Here he is pleading for his watch's attorney. He's like, Uh,
I'm sorry, I've got my thumb up my rerant. I mean,
I don't know what to say.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Well, first of all, it's not as if he had
an opportunity to rehearse it. You put the guy in
front of a camera as if he's doing a screen
test for an Academy Award film it's ridiculous. The guy
was caught off guard. He wasn't told what he was
going to be asked. He didn't know what he was
going to say. So people often stammer and stutter and
(03:19):
have a little word salad. They don't know what, if anything,
to say.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
So to say that.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
That implies guilt. Here we go again, Here we yes,
there she goes.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Say the rhapsody and all of a splendor and glory
of Phillip Debay trying to explain away a defendant, in
this case, a murder suspect, you know, not to Bethany Marshall.
Try as he might, Philip Debay cannot explain away why
(03:51):
the husband of the missing mom, who she's had all
these children by him, he beat her to a pull
before I was about to testify against him when she
went missing. He stands up and goes, I don't know
what to say. His wife is missing, possibly dead, his
(04:14):
children don't have a mother, and he doesn't know what
to say. You know what, when John David disappeared in
the middle of a big, huge Babies or US warehouse,
I knew what to say. I screamed, my baby's missing,
locked the doors. I screamed it over and over. It
sounded like a siren in my throat. I knew what
(04:35):
to say, Nancy.
Speaker 6 (04:36):
He's unable to say anything because he has the share
of the prosecutor law enforcement standing next to him. And
what I mean by this is when he was alone
with Nikki, he was quite comfortable being an abuser. He
would sit on her back, he would beat her. He
put a towel over her face, poured water on it
to the point where she felt she was suffocating and
(04:56):
couldn't breathe. She had bruises and lacerations on her face.
She was afraid of dying. She allegedly had bruises and
lacerations on her face. And yet when he's in front
of law enforcement, he's not the big bully that he
is on home at home. So I see with these
(05:17):
types of men who are abusive, that they are very
powerful when they're alone with a small, fragile woman, but
when they're they come face to face with consequences, they.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Kind of collapse. Let's watch him implode again. I mean,
I could just watch this all night.
Speaker 7 (05:34):
Watch I do really not say. I haven't been the
other guys, and I haven't done very well with it.
I apologize everyone, especially my children. My wife's saying mind
as well as well. I'm just hearing support. So anything
(05:58):
that I can do.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I want to do.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Apologizing for what that's certainly a Freudian slip. Apologizing for what?
Did anybody think to ask him that? Now you heard
doctor Bethany Marshall describe me a horrible incident of abyse.
This is how it started.
Speaker 8 (06:16):
Wednesday night, around eight thirty, Nicky Sale McCain is in
her bedroom combing her hair. Her husband of thirteen years,
Tyler McCain, arrives home in a strange mood for no
apparent reason. Tyler McCain aggressively jumps on top of Niki,
holding her on the ground, then dragging her around, yelling
what are you doing? Nicky says Tyler McCain's eyes are
glazed over. Nicky tries calming her husband, but it doesn't work,
(06:38):
and he holds her down and begins hitting her in
the face. The terror escalates over a three hour period,
with McCain binding Nicki's wrists and ankles together with tape,
putting tape over her mouth so she couldn't speak properly,
rolling his wife onto her stomach. Tyler McCain sits on
her back, pulling her hair back, forcefully pulling her head back,
and telling her he's going to kill her.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
This is the domestic incident. Why do they even call
it domestic incident? It's an aggravated assault. But it doesn't
end there.
Speaker 8 (07:09):
After three hours of Tyler McCain allegedly beating his wife,
the mother of his four children, hitting her about the
face and head, blackening her eyes, pulling out her hair,
and taping her mouth shut, he leaves her alone and
goes into the kitchen. Getting herself loose from the bindings.
Nicki grabs a rope, runs outside and gets in her car.
Tyler McCain chases Nickie out of the house and jumps
(07:29):
onto the hood of the car, telling her to stop.
Ignoring his demands, Nikki flees to the safety of her
sister's home.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
In reading What a Psycho, He jumps on her car
to stop her from leaving after he's been beating her
and terrorizing her and waterboarding her for hours. But this time,
Dave mac joined us Crime Story's investigative reporter. This time
is different because she reports the violence. She reports to
(07:56):
the beatings and they get photos of the beatings.
Speaker 9 (07:58):
Nancy.
Speaker 8 (07:59):
In this particularly case, you know, we said, she runs
to her sister's house in reading, it's her sister that
lovingly says, we've got to take you to the hospital.
We've got to get this documented. You need help, you know,
for these injuries. And so while she's at the hospital,
she makes the call and a police officer arrives and
the tedtective actually has the foresight and the wherewithal to
(08:22):
actually record exactly word for word Nikki sale McCain describing
this horrific attack. How long it took. It was a
twenty minute long interview with her talking, and it's just
it's shocking Nancy, how she described what she had just endured.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Okay, now, what were you saying, Philip Dubay about how
this is not a screen test in Hollywood? I think
I know why he couldn't speak at that presser. All
this was rushing through his mind. If he has any
conscious at all, or maybe he's like a frog. Have
you ever held a frog and looked at it in
the face, It just he just blinks. It's cold blooded creature,
(09:02):
no emotions. Is that what's happening?
Speaker 4 (09:05):
No, he does have an emotionally low IQ.
Speaker 9 (09:08):
But I don't know.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Why, and I have no actual evidence of this, but
he reminds me of a classic meth addict. That's somebody
who flies off the handle after a lengthy fix and
when he's trying to chase the dragon and trying to
get another fix, he can't get it, so he acts
out in a fit of peek and rage. And I
have a feeling that this incident, if it's in fact true,
(09:30):
was drum fueled.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Put him up, you know, Debay, It's amazing how you
can do a hairpin turn from this is no Hollywood
screen test to he's a meth head. There's no evidence
at all that he's a meth head. But I guess
you're digging really deep to explain his behavior at the presser.
(09:52):
You know what technical legal term, screw his behavior at
the presser. Let's get to the preliminary hearing. First of all,
why there's a preliminary hearing? I it confounds me. It's
the state's worst nightmare. Typically, in most jurisdictions, the state
(10:16):
can do an information just write up on a notepad
what the charges are going to be, or preferably a
grand jury that takes about five minutes. This preliminary hearing
requires the state to put up witnesses to prove pc
probable cause for the judge to bind the case over
(10:37):
or send it to the correct court. For instance, you
wouldn't send a murder case to traffic court. It would
go to a felony superior court where only felonies are tried.
That's what's happening here. So the defense is getting the
first swing at the ball by cross examining the state's witnesses.
(10:57):
That's what's happening now.
Speaker 8 (10:59):
Listen a preliminary hearing to determine if Tyler McCain will
go on trial for the murder of his wife, Nicki
Chang Sale. McCain has brought many witnesses to the stand,
from family and friends to law enforcement and forensic experts.
Judge Thomas Bender will determine if there is sufficient evidence
for Tyler McCain to be tried for the murder of
his wife. If the case against him moves forward, it
(11:20):
will be the first no body murder trial in Shasta
County history. As of today, Nicki is still missing and
presumed dead.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Well brace yourself, Shasta County. Other jurisdictions have had plenty
of no body murder cases, so you know what, get
with it or you won't be with it much longer.
Elected District Attorney. Joining us now two very special guests
who have been to hell and back seeking justice for
their sister Nicki with US, Kay Ford and Chloe Saley.
(11:53):
They have been enduring excruciating testimony in this preliminary hearing. Sisters,
thank you for being with us. I've just got to know,
off the top, how do you go home and actually
fall asleep after hearing this evidence? K forward, how do
(12:14):
you decompress after all of this?
Speaker 10 (12:16):
Each day we've you know, our sauces have been very supportive,
and we're also busy with kids activities, so a lot
of times that's been very helpful to refocus our thoughts
a little bit. But it is that once we're laying down,
it's taking all the information in.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Is a lot Now Joining US Brian Fitzgibbons, Director Operations,
USPA Nationwide Security. Fitzgibbons leads a team of highly specialized
investigators who focus and specialize in locating missing people all
around the world, and you can find him at Uspasecurity
(12:59):
dot Calm. Former marine and Iraqi war veteran translation. He's
seen it all, fitz Gibbons. You know what, here's the problem,
one of the problems with a no body case. As
Dubey has pointed out on many occasions, I've seen this
trick done in court where in the closing argument the
(13:22):
defense attorney will say, hey, is that the victim coming
in the door right now? And they wait to see
if the jury turns to look, and if they do,
the defense will argue, So you're not even convinced she's dead,
much less who did it? But don't you think by now,
(13:43):
fitz Gibbons, she would have.
Speaker 11 (13:45):
Been found absolutely Nancy. And you know, this has been
well over a year that we've been looking for Nicki.
And what I'll tell you is, in this preliminary hearing,
the DA has brought forth nine investigators from law enforcement
from various disciplines that have methodically laid out the case
against Tyler McCain and the case forensic case to prove
(14:10):
that there was in fact the murder that took place.
So these crucial things have happened. On top of that,
you have five members of McCain's friends and family that
have taken the witness stand and their stories have contradicted
statements that they've made to the police. So I think
things are going very well for the district attorney here
to get that probable cause from the judge.
Speaker 8 (14:32):
Writing.
Speaker 12 (14:33):
Police detective Jeremiah Kessinger says, Nikki's sister Chloe Saley texted
with Nikki regularly and there was always a response until
May nineteenth. Family members talk with Niki on May eighteenth,
but on May nineteenth, she never answered a text from Chloe.
Nicki told Chloe about domestic violence in the relationship and
McCain going so far as to point a gun directly
(14:54):
at Nikki and threatening to kill her and her family members.
Speaker 8 (14:57):
Yeahpanie Alisio Brito says he found He's pick up on
Highway thirty six the night of May twenty fifth. Shockingly,
the deputy says there was a strong odor, the smell
of death coming from the covered truck bed. The smell
of decomposing flesh coming from inside the truck bed is
coupled with a swarm of small flies and gnats. Also
in the truck bed a white sheet with bloodstains and
(15:19):
dark colored hairs. There are also smears of dried blood
in the truck bed. And strands of dark hair found
underneath a piece of trim. The blood and hair belonging
to Nicky Salia McCain and during.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
This preliminary hearing, including grizzly testimony, specifically blood testimony, has
been excruciating for Nicky's sisters. Straight back out to Chloe
and Kay Chloe, what has been the most difficult moment
in the preliminary hearing? I mean, I don't know if
(15:53):
you are at all like me, but my first brush
with the law, the first time I had ever been
in a courtroom, was that my fiance's murder trial. A
lot of it I still can't remember, but the parts
I do remember, they changed my life forever and there's
no turning back after what happened in court. What has
(16:16):
been the most vivid moment in your mind in the
court room so far?
Speaker 13 (16:21):
There are actually two incidences. One was when the sheriffs
they played a recording of Nicki's voice about what happened
that night. That was really hard to hear because it
was just hearing her voice because we weren't able to
hear her voice for such a long time. And then
also just the evidence about how much blood was in
the back of that truck bed. That hit me really
(16:42):
hard because I didn't realize how much blood and then
was in the back of that truck and just you know,
when you think of blood, you automatically think a murder
and that they're never coming back again.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
The amount of blood in the truck, does that indicate
to you, Chloe, that that is where she was killed?
Speaker 13 (17:02):
I believe that shortly after whatever happened to her, whatever
they did to her, I think that she was placed
in the back of that truck.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
But to die t K for Nikki's sister. Also, what
has been the most disturbing moment during the preliminary preliminary
hearing for you.
Speaker 10 (17:20):
Listening to the evidence technician describe decomposition and the smell
and kind of those details. She did such a good
job with being so professional and just very scientific with it.
But you know, just thinking of our sister in that
(17:41):
state was difficult to hear because you know, at the
end of the day, this this hearing has been about
decomposition of her body potentially, so those details were you know,
just kind of thinking that it's we're describing our sister.
Speaker 14 (18:01):
That was pretty grizzly for me.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
There was also evidence regarding the garage floor. What did
you learn, okay about the garage floor.
Speaker 10 (18:15):
It sounded like a lot of activity happened, witness testimony
about looking like it had been cleaned. Also the blue
star light being used by the evidence technician indicating that
there was blood. They didn't they didn't specify it if
it was animal or human. But as far as I knew,
(18:38):
they weren't butchers, and they weren't, you know, they weren't
handling animals in the garage, So that that to me
definitely indicated that it could possibly be a crime scene.
And and it's not a not a place that I
remember them cleaning a lot, So to have that the
(18:58):
garage cleaned, it's pretty telling for me.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
When you refer to they, Okay, who are you talking about?
Speaker 10 (19:06):
Well, the the witness testimonies so far, have you know,
indicated you know, the people living there, which would be
Tyler and may maybe someone who helped him, But so
far the cleaning sounds like it had been done by Tyler.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
I got a question to Chloe and Kay. First to you, Chloe,
does he even look at you in the courtroom?
Speaker 13 (19:29):
Chloe, No, he doesn't look anyone.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, yeah, what about it, Kay, does he even meet
your gaze?
Speaker 10 (19:36):
No, he for the most part has his head down
in his hands, and he hardly looks up even at
the witnesses. I did notice there was a witness last
week that he had his head up more than he
had with any other witnesses, and as well as when
they were displaying some pictures of his home, he did
(19:57):
look up at the projector screen during those pictures.
Speaker 14 (20:02):
Other than that, no eye contact with us, Las Lever.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yeah, I'm not at all surprised. It's a whole nother
thing if you're not beating someone less powerful than you,
much much smaller, a less cunning than you are. When
you're actually court with equals, it's a lot more difficult
to be a bully. And now joining US special guest
Jeffrey Gentry, forensic certified blood Stained Pattern Analysts, Senior crime
(20:30):
analyst and death investigator, former toxicology lab analyst and author
of forensic science Applications to death and crime scene investigations,
and specifically author of bloodstain pattern analysis. Jeffrey Gentry, I
just want you to hear one more fact about the
(20:51):
blood pattern Listen.
Speaker 12 (20:52):
During a check of Nikki's avalanche, the vehicle is put
up on a lift, where investigators discover blood pooled on
top of the fuel tank. Inspection reveals there was so
much blood some of it dripped down from the fuel tank.
On the passenger side of the truck, they found a
plastic grocery bag containing a bottle of Southern Comfort whiskey.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Dear Lord and Peasant Crime stores with Nancy Grace that
mass quantity of blood Jeffrey Gentry can only mean one thing.
But any down in the street knows that. Give me
(21:32):
your analysis about what was found in the truck bed
and beyond.
Speaker 9 (21:35):
These are all bad things, Nancy. So when you're working
a no body homicide case, you always have to consider
where the blood is found and then also the quantity
of blood that is found, because these are the things
that you're going to want to use evidence to convince
the jury that the person is dead even though there's
no body. So blood on bedsheets that's always a bad thing.
(21:56):
You would expect blood to be in bathrooms, kitchens, back
into sinks, things where blood might normally be found, but
you don't expect large quantities of blood to be saturated
into sheets, especially sheets that are tied up in knots.
That's one of the ways that we actually transport bodies
from crimes beings is you wrap them up in a
sheet you knotted up, then you put them inside of.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
A body bag.
Speaker 9 (22:17):
It makes it easier to carry a body.
Speaker 8 (22:19):
So that is very bad when.
Speaker 9 (22:21):
You're looking at a person being missing and then you're
finding blood strated into bed sheets, and then also the
quantity of blood that's being poured out of the truck
bed again, and you shouldn't have blood in the back
of the truck bed and you should absolutely not have
blood in sufficient quantities.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
To pour out of trucks.
Speaker 9 (22:38):
And then they touched on also the smell of decomposition.
That's the smell that I of course smelled many times
that thousands of death pass and it's something that you
don't forget others are smelling decomposition. Again, that's another piece
of evidence to suggest that this person is dead, even though.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
You don't have a boll straight out to Dave Matt
Crime Stories investigative reporter, I want to go back to
what's happening in the preliminary hearing. Tyler McCain, Nicky's abusive
husband had a major outburst where he stands up, starts
screaming and cursing.
Speaker 8 (23:12):
What happened, Well, in court, they showed pictures from the
first search of the house of Nicki and Tyler's house,
and in that first video shot you could tell that
the house is very messy. There weren't a lot of
pictures hanging up. But what he lost it over was
the pictures that were shown from the second visit, after
(23:33):
Nicki has been reported missing and the police go back
in and are searching the home again. This time they
find that the home is no longer messy. It's been
picked up and cleaned. It has been staged with family
photos now hanging on the walls. That's where he lost it, Nancy,
because they were pointing out that, hey, man, when we
came here the first time, right after she was reported missing,
(23:56):
none of this was going on. This place was trash,
But now look at it after she's gone, there's pictures
hanging on the walls. So that's why he lost it.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
He stated Chloe that for a large portion of the
hearing he would sit or he sits with his head
down looking down. But isn't it true he had a
major outburst, yelling and cursing. Yes, he did.
Speaker 13 (24:20):
It was when Cay mentioned it was when it was
pictures of his house and the evidence technician she had
mentioned that how the house had looked different from the
first raid versus the second raid, and she just noticed
that was unusual because when they went back the second
time for the raid, they noticed that the living room
(24:41):
was it was all cleaned up, it was very nice
and meet and put together, and there were family photos
hung up, and she just said she found that kind
of unusual. And Tyler, he said a cuss word and
he said that she doesn't understand why he's there.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Okay, I believe it's exact words are along the lines up.
I don't even know why I'm even here. This is bulls.
This is bullshit. This is him standing up and yelling
and the judge had to call for a recess so
his lawyer could calm him down. I mean, kay, if
he would accho like that in open court in front
of a judge, what would he do when he is
(25:19):
alone with Nikki?
Speaker 10 (25:20):
Yeah, the outburst is pretty telling, and it wasn't maybe
the family pictures were triggering, but it was pretty telling
because he had been keeping his composure pretty well throughout
the hearings, So that outburst was definitely a surprise, and
it was, like Loue said, it was comparisons from the
(25:40):
first search or raid compared to.
Speaker 14 (25:44):
The one they went to about nine ten months later.
Speaker 10 (25:46):
And she commented, the evidence technician commented on what a
difference it was. It was a home was in disarray previously,
and then when she came back, it was, like Loue said,
nice and tidy with family.
Speaker 14 (25:57):
Pictures all over the walls.
Speaker 10 (26:00):
And yeah, his outburse was asking what was wrong with
having pictures of this family on the wall, and then
what you had said.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
You know, I'm very curious. Bryan Fitzgibbons. I agree with you.
I mean, you're the expert in missing people cases. But
at this point, with so many people looking for Nikki,
combined with all the blood found in that truck, she's dead.
Speaker 11 (26:27):
Yeah, connect the dots here, right. We have a tremendous
amount of forensic analysis that's been done on this vehicle,
as testified by various members of law enforcement. That's undoubtedly
what led Shasta County just about a couple of months
ago to make the pronouncement that they believe that this
(26:48):
is now a murder case. So you know, I think
that there's sufficient evidence here to say that I want.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
To talk about the DNA evidence. It's my understanding that
and Dave Matt correct me if I'm wrong. That the
sheet found in the bed of the truck covered in
blood indicated by looking at the sheet that three of
the four corners had been tied in a knot. I
(27:18):
would argue, and Jeff gentry to you that they hitched
people McCain got to help him get rid of the evidence.
Each one took a corner of the sheet. Because DNA
from three separate people are in each corner of the
(27:39):
sheet where the knots have been tied, how does that work, Jeffrey.
Speaker 9 (27:44):
That's exactly what you want to look at, is where
is the DNA on these sheets and who was involved?
So if you have a knot on every single corner,
that would absolutely suggest that there were multiple people involved,
that there were multiple people carrying this body. As I
mentioned before, when you are carrying bodies, it's not easy.
I've carried a ton of bodies before, and you grab
(28:05):
a corner of the sheet and you transport them to
where they need to go, and all at that time
you're transferring DNA evidence to that sheet. Usually, of course
I'm wearing gloves at a scene, but these people who
most likely were not. And then if you're sweating and
you're doing something active, there's more of a chance that
you're going to transfer DA to whatever you're touching.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Straight out to Chloe and kay Ken, aither of you
tell me about the testimony on Louise Braha.
Speaker 14 (28:31):
Yeah, Louise he started his testimony.
Speaker 10 (28:35):
We only heard a little bit of it, but he
had been He had an ongoing relationship with Thinkie and
it sounds like it went back as far as.
Speaker 14 (28:46):
About a year or so before she went missing.
Speaker 10 (28:49):
And he very very calm, very seems like a very
nice gentleman. He said they had met at his place
of work, which was at a self phone store, and
they become friends. He helped them with their with their
celf phone service, and I think he noticed. I think
(29:11):
he kind of noticed NICKI needed help, and I think
he I think he felt bad for her. And I
think in that, with with how how calm his demeanor was,
with how comforting he seemed, I could see how Nikki
felt like this was someone she could turn to when
she needed it.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
There is also Justin corn What do we know about
Justin's testimony. I felt like.
Speaker 13 (29:39):
He was very nervous. I feel like maybe he might
have known more than he was letting on. But I
definitely I hope that he was being honest, but I
feel like he wasn't being as honest as because I
feel like he does know more.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Justin Karen lived in a trail or on the property.
That means he's got to have some connection with McCain. Also,
they played a video of him talking to police and
in it. In this video that was played in court,
Karen says that he was asked by McCain a few
days after Nicky goes missing to help disappear the Chevy
(30:20):
Avalanche and whatever was inside of it, and they pointed
out that Tyler McCain is letting him live on the
property for free. Then he starts crying in the video
when Cobbs press him for information, saying his mom lived
(30:40):
with him, he didn't have anywhere to go if something
happened to him. I mean, that's what it sounds like.
I don't know if that's true, but I'd like you
to describe that what happened.
Speaker 10 (30:50):
It sounded like mister Karen is kind of in a
dependent situation with Tyler. He lives on the property, and
it does sound like he is pretty much living grand
for you know, and he was kind of a right
hand man for Tyler. He helps around the house on
the property, fixed cars whatever Tyler needed. And it does
(31:11):
sound like without Tyler's I guess graciousness to let him
live there, he would essentially be homeless and have nowhere
to park his trailer. And he did mention his mom
is not doing well and his mom is pretty dependent
on him to you know, provide a place live and
he does take care of him, so, you know, it
(31:34):
sounds like mister Karen, unfortunately, was just pitched in a corner.
I mean, he's when you're dependent on someone, it's hard
to say no when they when they need your help.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I understand that. But getting rid of a dead body
as a whole other can of worms, Okay, that's more
than just helping a friend. That is obstruction of justice,
tampering with the body, and could be a whole lot more.
I'd be crying too. Let's go on to Felicia Nelson.
That is the girlfriend, right.
Speaker 13 (32:08):
They are no longer together, but they were dating.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
At the time. What did she say? What was her testimony?
Speaker 14 (32:15):
She did testify that on the night of.
Speaker 10 (32:20):
Or May seventeenth into the early morning hours of the eighteenth,
she did hear some movement in the back of the
house and on the back porch, which is where the
master bedroom exits, and that's also where Nikki had parked
her car closer to the.
Speaker 14 (32:37):
Master bedroom door. She said during those hours she did hear.
Speaker 10 (32:41):
Some movement and including a thud towards the back porch
of the house in the rear of the truck in
that to me, sounded like the bed area of the truck.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Now I want to clarify, Felicia Nelson is Justin Karen's girlfriend,
not Tyler McKay's girlfriend. And she also testified she was
in the trailer and Justin Karen's trailer and it was
not parked very far from the McCain home at all,
and she heard noises coming from where the avalanche was parked.
(33:17):
She later described a thud heard in the early morning
hours May eighteen. May eighteen is the day Nikki goes missing,
so that's very critical. Was Tyler McCain's defense attorney, cross
examining all the witnesses. Yes, he was, Yes, and how
(33:39):
did that pan out? He was?
Speaker 14 (33:41):
I feel like he was strategic.
Speaker 10 (33:43):
He did try to poke holes in some of their
testimony or or and I don't know the crrec termology,
but almost sometimes you know, someone said it was ten minutes,
he might say, could you know, do you mean fifteen
minutes because you had said fifteen minutes before? Things like
that to kind of confuse as the person and make
(34:04):
them feel, you know, like maybe they didn't remember correctly.
Speaker 14 (34:09):
But yeah, it's pretty crafty as far as you know,
the cross and.
Speaker 10 (34:14):
Clarifying specific things that they had testified to.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Now, another point of Justin Kieren's testimony that I found
really interesting is that he stated he found Nicky's driver's
license and credit cards on Tyler McCain's back porch, and
that he gave them to Tyler McCain and at the
time he gave them to Tyler McCain, they were not
(34:40):
burned or destroyed in any way. They were then later
the driver's license was later found burned in Tyler McCain's wallet.
Isn't that true? Yes? What can you tell me about
I was found in Tyler McCain's mother's home.
Speaker 13 (34:58):
There was any comforter in their detached garage that had
a lot of burn marks on it, and them there
was also a darker colored sweater that also appeared to
be burned as well.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Did either of you recognize the sweater? Did it belong
to Niki? It was hard to tell because.
Speaker 14 (35:15):
It wasn't a pile.
Speaker 10 (35:17):
It looked denim like to me, but it could have
just been, you know, the the thread material.
Speaker 14 (35:25):
But I did not specifically recognize the sweater.
Speaker 10 (35:28):
But Nicki had a lot of clothes, so I wouldn't
recognize every piece that she had anyway.
Speaker 13 (35:34):
And there was also a note that was found to
tell me about the note.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Okay, do you have it right?
Speaker 13 (35:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 14 (35:40):
It was in a bin.
Speaker 10 (35:41):
It was in a bin that was in Jeanette's garage.
Speaker 14 (35:44):
It was on a pink post it note.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
And the odd thing is, throughout the search they.
Speaker 10 (35:47):
Had found numerous just notes lying around Nicki and Tyler's home,
and this note happened to be in Jeanette's garage and
it read remember that feeling when you could be Jesus
for a day on drugs? Who wrote that It looks
like it could have been Tyler's handwriting, but.
Speaker 14 (36:09):
They didn't. They didn't.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
They didn't say, fine, how did you guys endure the
testimony about the discovery of the truck and what was
found in the truck bed?
Speaker 13 (36:23):
That was probably one of the toughest things for me.
I just remember I had my fiance sitting next to me.
I just like clutching onto his hand because it was
just it was just a lot.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
The deputy stated under oath there was a strong odor,
the smell of decomposition, decomposing flesh coming from the truck bed.
There was a swarm of flies and gnats. Also a
white sheet with bloodstains and dark colored hair, and Nikki
had beautiful, long, dark hair. There are smears of dried
(36:59):
blood bud in the truck bed, and there's dark hair
found under a piece on the trim on the outside
of the truck. It is it has been definitively proven
that the blood and the hair belonged to your sister Nicki.
(37:22):
And my final question to you, kay Ford, when you
hear this technical evidence about blood and hair and a comparison,
a lab comparison proving that it's Nicky's, do you let
your mind go to how that blood got there and
(37:42):
how her hair ended up in the trim of the
foot of the truck.
Speaker 10 (37:48):
So it's like I said, it's just grizzly to things
that that's what happened to her, you know, to even
kind of imagine it's.
Speaker 14 (37:59):
Yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Difficult specifically about Louis Philip Dubay, the witness. Now he's
saying he had a romantic relationship with Niki Chang. I
guess he is saying that now that his DNA is
on the sheet, right, he's saying that it is from
(38:21):
an earlier romantic encounter. But does he not understand the
crime lab can determine sweat versus touch, DNA versus sperm, right,
So if his DNA is over in one of those
knots tied, he's going to be proven to be a
liar Debay exactly.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
And that points immediately to third party culpability. And in California,
in order to get that defense, you have to have
more than just motive means an opportunity for someone else
to have committed the crime.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
There has to.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
Be some other independent evidence linking that third party to
the crime. And here, if you have biological evidence at
the scene where the death purportedly occurred. That is enough
to get that third party culpability instruction, and particularly at
a preliminary hearing, that is enough to show the court
(39:15):
that the death was at the hands of somebody other
than the defendant. The other problem I think the case
has so far, we're not hearing that there was an
unsurvivable loss of life.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I find this really hard to believe, doctor Bethany Marshall.
Now that Niki Tang is gone, now suddenly we're hearing
about a sex affair. Is that just to conveniently explain
away why his DNA is on the shape he used
to transport her dead body? Nancy. Abuse victims do not
(39:47):
have affairs.
Speaker 6 (39:48):
They are terrified to even smile at somebody in public.
Speaker 14 (39:52):
If the abuser is looking at them.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
The abuser questions, where did you have lunch?
Speaker 14 (39:57):
Did you talk to somebody?
Speaker 1 (39:58):
What did you say about them?
Speaker 6 (40:00):
Users are pathologically selloss. So no, I have a hard
time believing that she would have risked her life by
having an affairs.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Nicky King.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
The first office.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Getting involved, any efforts to.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Get home by my phone, crap, you miss your phone?
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 8 (40:43):
Ripley says it wouldn't start McCain put diesel in the
gas powered truck and it had rolled down a gradual slope.
Ripley says, Justin Karen asked McCain if there was anything
in the truck that needed to disappear, and did the
truck need to disappear? Both times McCain answered yes, that
if it's asked Ripley if he was offered amnesty for
his testimony, Ripley said he didn't need it because he
(41:05):
hadn't done anything wrong. Ripley says he met with his
nephew later that evening at his trailer on McCain's property
and told him he wanted nothing to do with whatever
was going on. He didn't know until the next day
the avalanche was reported missing until he saw it on
the news the next day.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Philip Dubay, defense attorney, how can the defense possibly fight
back against Ripley's testimony. Ripley says he asked the husband McCain,
is there anything in the truck we need to get
rid of? And McKain says yes. And he says, do
we need to get rid of the truck? And McCain
says yes, What do you do with that? That's just
(41:41):
like somebody dropped a bomb in your lap.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
Well, that presupposes that you believed the witness. In order
for that to have any merit or any way, you
have to find that the testimony is credible. And what
do we know that you had other people who were
intimate with her, And I find it astonishing to suggest
that it could have only been mister McCain. Normally, if
there were past relations, you launder the linens. But the
(42:06):
fact that there is fresh DNA from other people on
that sheet, I don't care what anybody says when they're
on the stand. Forensics are the best eye witness debate.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
The DNA is in the corners of the edges of
the sheet. They're clearly Daves mac where the sheet has
been nodded to help carry Nikki's body, explaining the DNA
found on the sheets, Dave mac Nancy.
Speaker 8 (42:36):
When they got that sheet out, they were examining each
of those corners. As you mentioned, there are three knots
in this sheet. In the corners, they've got separate DNA
profiles from different individuals. In those knots, they're not all
the same, So you've got three different people leaving their
(42:57):
DNA on the knots that are tied in the sheep
that also has Nikky Salley McCain's blood and hair. So
and of course we've got her husband, his is all
over it. And then we've got the other gentleman mentioned.
So it's the nots that were tied by these individuals
in the sheep. By the way, it was found in
(43:19):
the back of her truck that was sitting on the
side of the road with a cover over the trunk bed.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Okay, Jeffrey Gentry, blood spatter analyst, you would have a
field date with that. And did you hear Dubey trying
to tune up and state that there wasn't enough blood
to prove she's dead.
Speaker 9 (43:36):
One, there shouldn't be blood in the back of a
truck dead, There shouldn't be blood all over a sheet.
And then there definitely should not be enough blood in
body fluids that leak out of a truck. That is
very concerning. And if you're going to suggest that a
person is not dead after finding all of that, you're
absolutely wrong.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Question to you, Ryan, is Gibbons, the sisters have been
through hell sitting through this preliminary hearing. Isn't it true
Brian that family members want desperately to believe their loved
one is out there and they can and will be found.
How do you break that to someone that they're never
(44:15):
going to be found.
Speaker 11 (44:16):
Yeah, there's no easy way to begin that conversation when
this forensic evidence and the witness statements, but by the way,
lead us to believe that their loved one is indeed deceased.
And this has got to be just a horrific experience
through this preliminary hearing for Nicky's family to sit through
(44:38):
listening to all this evidence brought before them.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Chloe, I mean, I don't know how you guys are
enduring it. I mean I only sat through a very
short portion when I testified at my fiancees murder trial.
I didn't hear the rest. I don't know how you're
doing it. How are you sitting there listening to testimony
about Nicki's hair and blood.
Speaker 13 (45:00):
It's definitely difficult. I just remember, I have to do this.
I have to say this because I have to be
strong for Nicki's kids, because I want to know what
happened and I want to know what they did to her.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Joining me, kay Ford and Chloe Saley as difficult as
horrible as it is for them. They are enduring gut
wrenching and graphic testimony in court, and they are representing
their sister Niki, and it ain't over yet. Nicki. Sisters,
(45:33):
thank you for being with us. We wait as justice unfolds,
and now we remember an American hero, Officer Hunter simonsik
Kansas CITYPD, killed in the line of duty at age
twenty six, leaving behind heartbroken parents Ron and Christaine. American hero,
(45:57):
we honor Officer Hunter Simons. Thank you to our guests,
especially sisters Kay and Chloe. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye,
Frien
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Devastated sisters here grizzly facts
in the missing Nikki Chang case now upgraded to murder.
But where's the body? I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories.
(00:23):
I want to thank you for being with us. Mom's
Chevy is found abandoned on a remote country road. Nicky's
case is a homicide investigation. There are several assaults on Niki.
(00:48):
A brutal assault on Nikki prior to her disappearing, prior
to her Chevy being found abandoned on a remote country road.
She thought she was going to die. Where is NICKI?
A brutal assault at the hands of this guy some
time became us.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Nickie was the first role.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
I would like to thank starts office w I for
getting involved any efforts to give my health, my wife
home safe.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Uh, we miss you.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
He's kind of fumbling around. Listen to more of that.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
I really know.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
I haven't been in the public guys, and I've been
done very well with it.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Apologized every one, especially my children, my wife's family.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
My name is as well. I'm just hearing support such
anything that I can do, I want to do that.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I want you to hear this Nancy.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
A new trial date set for Tyler McCain, the man
charged with killing his wife, Nikki Chang Sale McCain. McCain
faces twelve charges and multiple special allegations, including one that
he killed his wife to prevent her from testifying against
him in court over domestic violence charges. The jury trial
was supposed to start November eighteenth, but McCain's lawyer, Michael Borges,
(02:26):
asked for more time given the mounds of documentation provided
by the prosecution. Shasta Superior Court Judge Adam b Ryan
set the trial date for March seventeenth, twenty twenty six.
A trial readiness hearing will be held on March eleventh
to ensure both parties are ready for the trial.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
How did we get here? With me? Defense attorney Philip
Dubay Here he is pleading for his watch's attorney. He's like, Uh,
I'm sorry, I've got my thumb up my rerant. I mean,
I don't know what to say.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
Well, first of all, it's not as if he had
an opportunity to rehearse it. You put the guy in
front of a camera as if he's doing a screen
test for an Academy Award film it's ridiculous. The guy
was caught off guard. He wasn't told what he was
going to be asked. He didn't know what he was
going to say. So people often stammer and stutter and
(03:19):
have a little word salad. They don't know what, if anything,
to say.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
So to say that.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
That implies guilt. Here we go again, Here we yes,
there she goes.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Say the rhapsody and all of a splendor and glory
of Phillip Debay trying to explain away a defendant, in
this case, a murder suspect, you know, not to Bethany Marshall.
Try as he might, Philip Debay cannot explain away why
(03:51):
the husband of the missing mom, who she's had all
these children by him, he beat her to a pull
before I was about to testify against him when she
went missing. He stands up and goes, I don't know
what to say. His wife is missing, possibly dead, his
(04:14):
children don't have a mother, and he doesn't know what
to say. You know what, when John David disappeared in
the middle of a big, huge Babies or US warehouse,
I knew what to say. I screamed, my baby's missing,
locked the doors. I screamed it over and over. It
sounded like a siren in my throat. I knew what
(04:35):
to say, Nancy.
Speaker 6 (04:36):
He's unable to say anything because he has the share
of the prosecutor law enforcement standing next to him. And
what I mean by this is when he was alone
with Nikki, he was quite comfortable being an abuser. He
would sit on her back, he would beat her. He
put a towel over her face, poured water on it
to the point where she felt she was suffocating and
(04:56):
couldn't breathe. She had bruises and lacerations on her face.
She was afraid of dying. She allegedly had bruises and
lacerations on her face. And yet when he's in front
of law enforcement, he's not the big bully that he
is on home at home. So I see with these
(05:17):
types of men who are abusive, that they are very
powerful when they're alone with a small, fragile woman, but
when they're they come face to face with consequences, they.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Kind of collapse. Let's watch him implode again. I mean,
I could just watch this all night.
Speaker 7 (05:34):
Watch I do really not say. I haven't been the
other guys, and I haven't done very well with it.
I apologize everyone, especially my children. My wife's saying mind
as well as well. I'm just hearing support. So anything
(05:58):
that I can do.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I want to do.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Apologizing for what that's certainly a Freudian slip. Apologizing for what?
Did anybody think to ask him that? Now you heard
doctor Bethany Marshall describe me a horrible incident of abyse.
This is how it started.
Speaker 8 (06:16):
Wednesday night, around eight thirty, Nicky Sale McCain is in
her bedroom combing her hair. Her husband of thirteen years,
Tyler McCain, arrives home in a strange mood for no
apparent reason. Tyler McCain aggressively jumps on top of Niki,
holding her on the ground, then dragging her around, yelling
what are you doing? Nicky says Tyler McCain's eyes are
glazed over. Nicky tries calming her husband, but it doesn't work,
(06:38):
and he holds her down and begins hitting her in
the face. The terror escalates over a three hour period,
with McCain binding Nicki's wrists and ankles together with tape,
putting tape over her mouth so she couldn't speak properly,
rolling his wife onto her stomach. Tyler McCain sits on
her back, pulling her hair back, forcefully pulling her head back,
and telling her he's going to kill her.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
This is the domestic incident. Why do they even call
it domestic incident? It's an aggravated assault. But it doesn't
end there.
Speaker 8 (07:09):
After three hours of Tyler McCain allegedly beating his wife,
the mother of his four children, hitting her about the
face and head, blackening her eyes, pulling out her hair,
and taping her mouth shut, he leaves her alone and
goes into the kitchen. Getting herself loose from the bindings.
Nicki grabs a rope, runs outside and gets in her car.
Tyler McCain chases Nickie out of the house and jumps
(07:29):
onto the hood of the car, telling her to stop.
Ignoring his demands, Nikki flees to the safety of her
sister's home.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
In reading What a Psycho, He jumps on her car
to stop her from leaving after he's been beating her
and terrorizing her and waterboarding her for hours. But this time,
Dave mac joined us Crime Story's investigative reporter. This time
is different because she reports the violence. She reports to
(07:56):
the beatings and they get photos of the beatings.
Speaker 9 (07:58):
Nancy.
Speaker 8 (07:59):
In this particularly case, you know, we said, she runs
to her sister's house in reading, it's her sister that
lovingly says, we've got to take you to the hospital.
We've got to get this documented. You need help, you know,
for these injuries. And so while she's at the hospital,
she makes the call and a police officer arrives and
the tedtective actually has the foresight and the wherewithal to
(08:22):
actually record exactly word for word Nikki sale McCain describing
this horrific attack. How long it took. It was a
twenty minute long interview with her talking, and it's just
it's shocking Nancy, how she described what she had just endured.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Okay, now, what were you saying, Philip Dubay about how
this is not a screen test in Hollywood? I think
I know why he couldn't speak at that presser. All
this was rushing through his mind. If he has any
conscious at all, or maybe he's like a frog. Have
you ever held a frog and looked at it in
the face, It just he just blinks. It's cold blooded creature,
(09:02):
no emotions. Is that what's happening?
Speaker 4 (09:05):
No, he does have an emotionally low IQ.
Speaker 9 (09:08):
But I don't know.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Why, and I have no actual evidence of this, but
he reminds me of a classic meth addict. That's somebody
who flies off the handle after a lengthy fix and
when he's trying to chase the dragon and trying to
get another fix, he can't get it, so he acts
out in a fit of peek and rage. And I
have a feeling that this incident, if it's in fact true,
(09:30):
was drum fueled.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Put him up, you know, Debay, It's amazing how you
can do a hairpin turn from this is no Hollywood
screen test to he's a meth head. There's no evidence
at all that he's a meth head. But I guess
you're digging really deep to explain his behavior at the presser.
(09:52):
You know what technical legal term, screw his behavior at
the presser. Let's get to the preliminary hearing. First of all,
why there's a preliminary hearing? I it confounds me. It's
the state's worst nightmare. Typically, in most jurisdictions, the state
(10:16):
can do an information just write up on a notepad
what the charges are going to be, or preferably a
grand jury that takes about five minutes. This preliminary hearing
requires the state to put up witnesses to prove pc
probable cause for the judge to bind the case over
(10:37):
or send it to the correct court. For instance, you
wouldn't send a murder case to traffic court. It would
go to a felony superior court where only felonies are tried.
That's what's happening here. So the defense is getting the
first swing at the ball by cross examining the state's witnesses.
(10:57):
That's what's happening now.
Speaker 8 (10:59):
Listen a preliminary hearing to determine if Tyler McCain will
go on trial for the murder of his wife, Nicki
Chang Sale. McCain has brought many witnesses to the stand,
from family and friends to law enforcement and forensic experts.
Judge Thomas Bender will determine if there is sufficient evidence
for Tyler McCain to be tried for the murder of
his wife. If the case against him moves forward, it
(11:20):
will be the first no body murder trial in Shasta
County history. As of today, Nicki is still missing and
presumed dead.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Well brace yourself, Shasta County. Other jurisdictions have had plenty
of no body murder cases, so you know what, get
with it or you won't be with it much longer.
Elected District Attorney. Joining us now two very special guests
who have been to hell and back seeking justice for
their sister Nicki with US, Kay Ford and Chloe Saley.
(11:53):
They have been enduring excruciating testimony in this preliminary hearing. Sisters,
thank you for being with us. I've just got to know,
off the top, how do you go home and actually
fall asleep after hearing this evidence? K forward, how do
(12:14):
you decompress after all of this?
Speaker 10 (12:16):
Each day we've you know, our sauces have been very supportive,
and we're also busy with kids activities, so a lot
of times that's been very helpful to refocus our thoughts
a little bit. But it is that once we're laying down,
it's taking all the information in.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Is a lot Now Joining US Brian Fitzgibbons, Director Operations,
USPA Nationwide Security. Fitzgibbons leads a team of highly specialized
investigators who focus and specialize in locating missing people all
around the world, and you can find him at Uspasecurity
(12:59):
dot Calm. Former marine and Iraqi war veteran translation. He's
seen it all, fitz Gibbons. You know what, here's the problem,
one of the problems with a no body case. As
Dubey has pointed out on many occasions, I've seen this
trick done in court where in the closing argument the
(13:22):
defense attorney will say, hey, is that the victim coming
in the door right now? And they wait to see
if the jury turns to look, and if they do,
the defense will argue, So you're not even convinced she's dead,
much less who did it? But don't you think by now,
(13:43):
fitz Gibbons, she would have.
Speaker 11 (13:45):
Been found absolutely Nancy. And you know, this has been
well over a year that we've been looking for Nicki.
And what I'll tell you is, in this preliminary hearing,
the DA has brought forth nine investigators from law enforcement
from various disciplines that have methodically laid out the case
against Tyler McCain and the case forensic case to prove
(14:10):
that there was in fact the murder that took place.
So these crucial things have happened. On top of that,
you have five members of McCain's friends and family that
have taken the witness stand and their stories have contradicted
statements that they've made to the police. So I think
things are going very well for the district attorney here
to get that probable cause from the judge.
Speaker 8 (14:32):
Writing.
Speaker 12 (14:33):
Police detective Jeremiah Kessinger says, Nikki's sister Chloe Saley texted
with Nikki regularly and there was always a response until
May nineteenth. Family members talk with Niki on May eighteenth,
but on May nineteenth, she never answered a text from Chloe.
Nicki told Chloe about domestic violence in the relationship and
McCain going so far as to point a gun directly
(14:54):
at Nikki and threatening to kill her and her family members.
Speaker 8 (14:57):
Yeahpanie Alisio Brito says he found He's pick up on
Highway thirty six the night of May twenty fifth. Shockingly,
the deputy says there was a strong odor, the smell
of death coming from the covered truck bed. The smell
of decomposing flesh coming from inside the truck bed is
coupled with a swarm of small flies and gnats. Also
in the truck bed a white sheet with bloodstains and
(15:19):
dark colored hairs. There are also smears of dried blood
in the truck bed. And strands of dark hair found
underneath a piece of trim. The blood and hair belonging
to Nicky Salia McCain and during.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
This preliminary hearing, including grizzly testimony, specifically blood testimony, has
been excruciating for Nicky's sisters. Straight back out to Chloe
and Kay Chloe, what has been the most difficult moment
in the preliminary hearing? I mean, I don't know if
(15:53):
you are at all like me, but my first brush
with the law, the first time I had ever been
in a courtroom, was that my fiance's murder trial. A
lot of it I still can't remember, but the parts
I do remember, they changed my life forever and there's
no turning back after what happened in court. What has
(16:16):
been the most vivid moment in your mind in the
court room so far?
Speaker 13 (16:21):
There are actually two incidences. One was when the sheriffs
they played a recording of Nicki's voice about what happened
that night. That was really hard to hear because it
was just hearing her voice because we weren't able to
hear her voice for such a long time. And then
also just the evidence about how much blood was in
the back of that truck bed. That hit me really
(16:42):
hard because I didn't realize how much blood and then
was in the back of that truck and just you know,
when you think of blood, you automatically think a murder
and that they're never coming back again.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
The amount of blood in the truck, does that indicate
to you, Chloe, that that is where she was killed?
Speaker 13 (17:02):
I believe that shortly after whatever happened to her, whatever
they did to her, I think that she was placed
in the back of that truck.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
But to die t K for Nikki's sister. Also, what
has been the most disturbing moment during the preliminary preliminary
hearing for you.
Speaker 10 (17:20):
Listening to the evidence technician describe decomposition and the smell
and kind of those details. She did such a good
job with being so professional and just very scientific with it.
But you know, just thinking of our sister in that
(17:41):
state was difficult to hear because you know, at the
end of the day, this this hearing has been about
decomposition of her body potentially, so those details were you know,
just kind of thinking that it's we're describing our sister.
Speaker 14 (18:01):
That was pretty grizzly for me.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
There was also evidence regarding the garage floor. What did
you learn, okay about the garage floor.
Speaker 10 (18:15):
It sounded like a lot of activity happened, witness testimony
about looking like it had been cleaned. Also the blue
star light being used by the evidence technician indicating that
there was blood. They didn't they didn't specify it if
it was animal or human. But as far as I knew,
(18:38):
they weren't butchers, and they weren't, you know, they weren't
handling animals in the garage, So that that to me
definitely indicated that it could possibly be a crime scene.
And and it's not a not a place that I
remember them cleaning a lot, So to have that the
(18:58):
garage cleaned, it's pretty telling for me.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
When you refer to they, Okay, who are you talking about?
Speaker 10 (19:06):
Well, the the witness testimonies so far, have you know,
indicated you know, the people living there, which would be
Tyler and may maybe someone who helped him, But so
far the cleaning sounds like it had been done by Tyler.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
I got a question to Chloe and Kay. First to you, Chloe,
does he even look at you in the courtroom?
Speaker 13 (19:29):
Chloe, No, he doesn't look anyone.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, yeah, what about it, Kay, does he even meet
your gaze?
Speaker 10 (19:36):
No, he for the most part has his head down
in his hands, and he hardly looks up even at
the witnesses. I did notice there was a witness last
week that he had his head up more than he
had with any other witnesses, and as well as when
they were displaying some pictures of his home, he did
(19:57):
look up at the projector screen during those pictures.
Speaker 14 (20:02):
Other than that, no eye contact with us, Las Lever.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yeah, I'm not at all surprised. It's a whole nother
thing if you're not beating someone less powerful than you,
much much smaller, a less cunning than you are. When
you're actually court with equals, it's a lot more difficult
to be a bully. And now joining US special guest
Jeffrey Gentry, forensic certified blood Stained Pattern Analysts, Senior crime
(20:30):
analyst and death investigator, former toxicology lab analyst and author
of forensic science Applications to death and crime scene investigations,
and specifically author of bloodstain pattern analysis. Jeffrey Gentry, I
just want you to hear one more fact about the
(20:51):
blood pattern Listen.
Speaker 12 (20:52):
During a check of Nikki's avalanche, the vehicle is put
up on a lift, where investigators discover blood pooled on
top of the fuel tank. Inspection reveals there was so
much blood some of it dripped down from the fuel tank.
On the passenger side of the truck, they found a
plastic grocery bag containing a bottle of Southern Comfort whiskey.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Dear Lord and Peasant Crime stores with Nancy Grace that
mass quantity of blood Jeffrey Gentry can only mean one thing.
But any down in the street knows that. Give me
(21:32):
your analysis about what was found in the truck bed
and beyond.
Speaker 9 (21:35):
These are all bad things, Nancy. So when you're working
a no body homicide case, you always have to consider
where the blood is found and then also the quantity
of blood that is found, because these are the things
that you're going to want to use evidence to convince
the jury that the person is dead even though there's
no body. So blood on bedsheets that's always a bad thing.
(21:56):
You would expect blood to be in bathrooms, kitchens, back
into sinks, things where blood might normally be found, but
you don't expect large quantities of blood to be saturated
into sheets, especially sheets that are tied up in knots.
That's one of the ways that we actually transport bodies
from crimes beings is you wrap them up in a
sheet you knotted up, then you put them inside of.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
A body bag.
Speaker 9 (22:17):
It makes it easier to carry a body.
Speaker 8 (22:19):
So that is very bad when.
Speaker 9 (22:21):
You're looking at a person being missing and then you're
finding blood strated into bed sheets, and then also the
quantity of blood that's being poured out of the truck
bed again, and you shouldn't have blood in the back
of the truck bed and you should absolutely not have
blood in sufficient quantities.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
To pour out of trucks.
Speaker 9 (22:38):
And then they touched on also the smell of decomposition.
That's the smell that I of course smelled many times
that thousands of death pass and it's something that you
don't forget others are smelling decomposition. Again, that's another piece
of evidence to suggest that this person is dead, even though.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
You don't have a boll straight out to Dave Matt
Crime Stories investigative reporter, I want to go back to
what's happening in the preliminary hearing. Tyler McCain, Nicky's abusive
husband had a major outburst where he stands up, starts
screaming and cursing.
Speaker 8 (23:12):
What happened, Well, in court, they showed pictures from the
first search of the house of Nicki and Tyler's house,
and in that first video shot you could tell that
the house is very messy. There weren't a lot of
pictures hanging up. But what he lost it over was
the pictures that were shown from the second visit, after
(23:33):
Nicki has been reported missing and the police go back
in and are searching the home again. This time they
find that the home is no longer messy. It's been
picked up and cleaned. It has been staged with family
photos now hanging on the walls. That's where he lost it, Nancy,
because they were pointing out that, hey, man, when we
came here the first time, right after she was reported missing,
(23:56):
none of this was going on. This place was trash,
But now look at it after she's gone, there's pictures
hanging on the walls. So that's why he lost it.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
He stated Chloe that for a large portion of the
hearing he would sit or he sits with his head
down looking down. But isn't it true he had a
major outburst, yelling and cursing. Yes, he did.
Speaker 13 (24:20):
It was when Cay mentioned it was when it was
pictures of his house and the evidence technician she had
mentioned that how the house had looked different from the
first raid versus the second raid, and she just noticed
that was unusual because when they went back the second
time for the raid, they noticed that the living room
(24:41):
was it was all cleaned up, it was very nice
and meet and put together, and there were family photos
hung up, and she just said she found that kind
of unusual. And Tyler, he said a cuss word and
he said that she doesn't understand why he's there.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Okay, I believe it's exact words are along the lines up.
I don't even know why I'm even here. This is bulls.
This is bullshit. This is him standing up and yelling
and the judge had to call for a recess so
his lawyer could calm him down. I mean, kay, if
he would accho like that in open court in front
of a judge, what would he do when he is
(25:19):
alone with Nikki?
Speaker 10 (25:20):
Yeah, the outburst is pretty telling, and it wasn't maybe
the family pictures were triggering, but it was pretty telling
because he had been keeping his composure pretty well throughout
the hearings, So that outburst was definitely a surprise, and
it was, like Loue said, it was comparisons from the
(25:40):
first search or raid compared to.
Speaker 14 (25:44):
The one they went to about nine ten months later.
Speaker 10 (25:46):
And she commented, the evidence technician commented on what a
difference it was. It was a home was in disarray previously,
and then when she came back, it was, like Loue said,
nice and tidy with family.
Speaker 14 (25:57):
Pictures all over the walls.
Speaker 10 (26:00):
And yeah, his outburse was asking what was wrong with
having pictures of this family on the wall, and then
what you had said.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
You know, I'm very curious. Bryan Fitzgibbons. I agree with you.
I mean, you're the expert in missing people cases. But
at this point, with so many people looking for Nikki,
combined with all the blood found in that truck, she's dead.
Speaker 11 (26:27):
Yeah, connect the dots here, right. We have a tremendous
amount of forensic analysis that's been done on this vehicle,
as testified by various members of law enforcement. That's undoubtedly
what led Shasta County just about a couple of months
ago to make the pronouncement that they believe that this
(26:48):
is now a murder case. So you know, I think
that there's sufficient evidence here to say that I want.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
To talk about the DNA evidence. It's my understanding that
and Dave Matt correct me if I'm wrong. That the
sheet found in the bed of the truck covered in
blood indicated by looking at the sheet that three of
the four corners had been tied in a knot. I
(27:18):
would argue, and Jeff gentry to you that they hitched
people McCain got to help him get rid of the evidence.
Each one took a corner of the sheet. Because DNA
from three separate people are in each corner of the
(27:39):
sheet where the knots have been tied, how does that work, Jeffrey.
Speaker 9 (27:44):
That's exactly what you want to look at, is where
is the DNA on these sheets and who was involved?
So if you have a knot on every single corner,
that would absolutely suggest that there were multiple people involved,
that there were multiple people carrying this body. As I
mentioned before, when you are carrying bodies, it's not easy.
I've carried a ton of bodies before, and you grab
(28:05):
a corner of the sheet and you transport them to
where they need to go, and all at that time
you're transferring DNA evidence to that sheet. Usually, of course
I'm wearing gloves at a scene, but these people who
most likely were not. And then if you're sweating and
you're doing something active, there's more of a chance that
you're going to transfer DA to whatever you're touching.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Straight out to Chloe and kay Ken, aither of you
tell me about the testimony on Louise Braha.
Speaker 14 (28:31):
Yeah, Louise he started his testimony.
Speaker 10 (28:35):
We only heard a little bit of it, but he
had been He had an ongoing relationship with Thinkie and
it sounds like it went back as far as.
Speaker 14 (28:46):
About a year or so before she went missing.
Speaker 10 (28:49):
And he very very calm, very seems like a very
nice gentleman. He said they had met at his place
of work, which was at a self phone store, and
they become friends. He helped them with their with their
celf phone service, and I think he noticed. I think
(29:11):
he kind of noticed NICKI needed help, and I think
he I think he felt bad for her. And I
think in that, with with how how calm his demeanor was,
with how comforting he seemed, I could see how Nikki
felt like this was someone she could turn to when
she needed it.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
There is also Justin corn What do we know about
Justin's testimony. I felt like.
Speaker 13 (29:39):
He was very nervous. I feel like maybe he might
have known more than he was letting on. But I
definitely I hope that he was being honest, but I
feel like he wasn't being as honest as because I
feel like he does know more.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Justin Karen lived in a trail or on the property.
That means he's got to have some connection with McCain. Also,
they played a video of him talking to police and
in it. In this video that was played in court,
Karen says that he was asked by McCain a few
days after Nicky goes missing to help disappear the Chevy
(30:20):
Avalanche and whatever was inside of it, and they pointed
out that Tyler McCain is letting him live on the
property for free. Then he starts crying in the video
when Cobbs press him for information, saying his mom lived
(30:40):
with him, he didn't have anywhere to go if something
happened to him. I mean, that's what it sounds like.
I don't know if that's true, but I'd like you
to describe that what happened.
Speaker 10 (30:50):
It sounded like mister Karen is kind of in a
dependent situation with Tyler. He lives on the property, and
it does sound like he is pretty much living grand
for you know, and he was kind of a right
hand man for Tyler. He helps around the house on
the property, fixed cars whatever Tyler needed. And it does
(31:11):
sound like without Tyler's I guess graciousness to let him
live there, he would essentially be homeless and have nowhere
to park his trailer. And he did mention his mom
is not doing well and his mom is pretty dependent
on him to you know, provide a place live and
he does take care of him, so, you know, it
(31:34):
sounds like mister Karen, unfortunately, was just pitched in a corner.
I mean, he's when you're dependent on someone, it's hard
to say no when they when they need your help.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
I understand that. But getting rid of a dead body
as a whole other can of worms, Okay, that's more
than just helping a friend. That is obstruction of justice,
tampering with the body, and could be a whole lot more.
I'd be crying too. Let's go on to Felicia Nelson.
That is the girlfriend, right.
Speaker 13 (32:08):
They are no longer together, but they were dating.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
At the time. What did she say? What was her testimony?
Speaker 14 (32:15):
She did testify that on the night of.
Speaker 10 (32:20):
Or May seventeenth into the early morning hours of the eighteenth,
she did hear some movement in the back of the
house and on the back porch, which is where the
master bedroom exits, and that's also where Nikki had parked
her car closer to the.
Speaker 14 (32:37):
Master bedroom door. She said during those hours she did hear.
Speaker 10 (32:41):
Some movement and including a thud towards the back porch
of the house in the rear of the truck in
that to me, sounded like the bed area of the truck.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Now I want to clarify, Felicia Nelson is Justin Karen's girlfriend,
not Tyler McKay's girlfriend. And she also testified she was
in the trailer and Justin Karen's trailer and it was
not parked very far from the McCain home at all,
and she heard noises coming from where the avalanche was parked.
(33:17):
She later described a thud heard in the early morning
hours May eighteen. May eighteen is the day Nikki goes missing,
so that's very critical. Was Tyler McCain's defense attorney, cross
examining all the witnesses. Yes, he was, Yes, and how
(33:39):
did that pan out? He was?
Speaker 14 (33:41):
I feel like he was strategic.
Speaker 10 (33:43):
He did try to poke holes in some of their
testimony or or and I don't know the crrec termology,
but almost sometimes you know, someone said it was ten minutes,
he might say, could you know, do you mean fifteen
minutes because you had said fifteen minutes before? Things like
that to kind of confuse as the person and make
(34:04):
them feel, you know, like maybe they didn't remember correctly.
Speaker 14 (34:09):
But yeah, it's pretty crafty as far as you know,
the cross and.
Speaker 10 (34:14):
Clarifying specific things that they had testified to.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Now, another point of Justin Kieren's testimony that I found
really interesting is that he stated he found Nicky's driver's
license and credit cards on Tyler McCain's back porch, and
that he gave them to Tyler McCain and at the
time he gave them to Tyler McCain, they were not
(34:40):
burned or destroyed in any way. They were then later
the driver's license was later found burned in Tyler McCain's wallet.
Isn't that true? Yes? What can you tell me about
I was found in Tyler McCain's mother's home.
Speaker 13 (34:58):
There was any comforter in their detached garage that had
a lot of burn marks on it, and them there
was also a darker colored sweater that also appeared to
be burned as well.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Did either of you recognize the sweater? Did it belong
to Niki? It was hard to tell because.
Speaker 14 (35:15):
It wasn't a pile.
Speaker 10 (35:17):
It looked denim like to me, but it could have
just been, you know, the the thread material.
Speaker 14 (35:25):
But I did not specifically recognize the sweater.
Speaker 10 (35:28):
But Nicki had a lot of clothes, so I wouldn't
recognize every piece that she had anyway.
Speaker 13 (35:34):
And there was also a note that was found to
tell me about the note.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Okay, do you have it right?
Speaker 13 (35:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 14 (35:40):
It was in a bin.
Speaker 10 (35:41):
It was in a bin that was in Jeanette's garage.
Speaker 14 (35:44):
It was on a pink post it note.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
And the odd thing is, throughout the search they.
Speaker 10 (35:47):
Had found numerous just notes lying around Nicki and Tyler's home,
and this note happened to be in Jeanette's garage and
it read remember that feeling when you could be Jesus
for a day on drugs? Who wrote that It looks
like it could have been Tyler's handwriting, but.
Speaker 14 (36:09):
They didn't. They didn't.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
They didn't say, fine, how did you guys endure the
testimony about the discovery of the truck and what was
found in the truck bed?
Speaker 13 (36:23):
That was probably one of the toughest things for me.
I just remember I had my fiance sitting next to me.
I just like clutching onto his hand because it was
just it was just a lot.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
The deputy stated under oath there was a strong odor,
the smell of decomposition, decomposing flesh coming from the truck bed.
There was a swarm of flies and gnats. Also a
white sheet with bloodstains and dark colored hair, and Nikki
had beautiful, long, dark hair. There are smears of dried
(36:59):
blood bud in the truck bed, and there's dark hair
found under a piece on the trim on the outside
of the truck. It is it has been definitively proven
that the blood and the hair belonged to your sister Nicki.
(37:22):
And my final question to you, kay Ford, when you
hear this technical evidence about blood and hair and a comparison,
a lab comparison proving that it's Nicky's, do you let
your mind go to how that blood got there and
(37:42):
how her hair ended up in the trim of the
foot of the truck.
Speaker 10 (37:48):
So it's like I said, it's just grizzly to things
that that's what happened to her, you know, to even
kind of imagine it's.
Speaker 14 (37:59):
Yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Difficult specifically about Louis Philip Dubay, the witness. Now he's
saying he had a romantic relationship with Niki Chang. I
guess he is saying that now that his DNA is
on the sheet, right, he's saying that it is from
(38:21):
an earlier romantic encounter. But does he not understand the
crime lab can determine sweat versus touch, DNA versus sperm, right,
So if his DNA is over in one of those
knots tied, he's going to be proven to be a
liar Debay exactly.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
And that points immediately to third party culpability. And in California,
in order to get that defense, you have to have
more than just motive means an opportunity for someone else
to have committed the crime.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
There has to.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
Be some other independent evidence linking that third party to
the crime. And here, if you have biological evidence at
the scene where the death purportedly occurred. That is enough
to get that third party culpability instruction, and particularly at
a preliminary hearing, that is enough to show the court
(39:15):
that the death was at the hands of somebody other
than the defendant. The other problem I think the case
has so far, we're not hearing that there was an
unsurvivable loss of life.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I find this really hard to believe, doctor Bethany Marshall.
Now that Niki Tang is gone, now suddenly we're hearing
about a sex affair. Is that just to conveniently explain
away why his DNA is on the shape he used
to transport her dead body? Nancy. Abuse victims do not
(39:47):
have affairs.
Speaker 6 (39:48):
They are terrified to even smile at somebody in public.
Speaker 14 (39:52):
If the abuser is looking at them.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
The abuser questions, where did you have lunch?
Speaker 14 (39:57):
Did you talk to somebody?
Speaker 1 (39:58):
What did you say about them?
Speaker 6 (40:00):
Users are pathologically selloss. So no, I have a hard
time believing that she would have risked her life by
having an affairs.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Nicky King.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
The first office.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Getting involved, any efforts to.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Get home by my phone, crap, you miss your phone?
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 8 (40:43):
Ripley says it wouldn't start McCain put diesel in the
gas powered truck and it had rolled down a gradual slope.
Ripley says, Justin Karen asked McCain if there was anything
in the truck that needed to disappear, and did the
truck need to disappear? Both times McCain answered yes, that
if it's asked Ripley if he was offered amnesty for
his testimony, Ripley said he didn't need it because he
(41:05):
hadn't done anything wrong. Ripley says he met with his
nephew later that evening at his trailer on McCain's property
and told him he wanted nothing to do with whatever
was going on. He didn't know until the next day
the avalanche was reported missing until he saw it on
the news the next day.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Philip Dubay, defense attorney, how can the defense possibly fight
back against Ripley's testimony. Ripley says he asked the husband McCain,
is there anything in the truck we need to get
rid of? And McKain says yes. And he says, do
we need to get rid of the truck? And McCain
says yes, What do you do with that? That's just
(41:41):
like somebody dropped a bomb in your lap.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
Well, that presupposes that you believed the witness. In order
for that to have any merit or any way, you
have to find that the testimony is credible. And what
do we know that you had other people who were
intimate with her, And I find it astonishing to suggest
that it could have only been mister McCain. Normally, if
there were past relations, you launder the linens. But the
(42:06):
fact that there is fresh DNA from other people on
that sheet, I don't care what anybody says when they're
on the stand. Forensics are the best eye witness debate.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
The DNA is in the corners of the edges of
the sheet. They're clearly Daves mac where the sheet has
been nodded to help carry Nikki's body, explaining the DNA
found on the sheets, Dave mac Nancy.
Speaker 8 (42:36):
When they got that sheet out, they were examining each
of those corners. As you mentioned, there are three knots
in this sheet. In the corners, they've got separate DNA
profiles from different individuals. In those knots, they're not all
the same, So you've got three different people leaving their
(42:57):
DNA on the knots that are tied in the sheep
that also has Nikky Salley McCain's blood and hair. So
and of course we've got her husband, his is all
over it. And then we've got the other gentleman mentioned.
So it's the nots that were tied by these individuals
in the sheep. By the way, it was found in
(43:19):
the back of her truck that was sitting on the
side of the road with a cover over the trunk bed.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Okay, Jeffrey Gentry, blood spatter analyst, you would have a
field date with that. And did you hear Dubey trying
to tune up and state that there wasn't enough blood
to prove she's dead.
Speaker 9 (43:36):
One, there shouldn't be blood in the back of a
truck dead, There shouldn't be blood all over a sheet.
And then there definitely should not be enough blood in
body fluids that leak out of a truck. That is
very concerning. And if you're going to suggest that a
person is not dead after finding all of that, you're
absolutely wrong.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Question to you, Ryan, is Gibbons, the sisters have been
through hell sitting through this preliminary hearing. Isn't it true
Brian that family members want desperately to believe their loved
one is out there and they can and will be found.
How do you break that to someone that they're never
(44:15):
going to be found.
Speaker 11 (44:16):
Yeah, there's no easy way to begin that conversation when
this forensic evidence and the witness statements, but by the way,
lead us to believe that their loved one is indeed deceased.
And this has got to be just a horrific experience
through this preliminary hearing for Nicky's family to sit through
(44:38):
listening to all this evidence brought before them.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Chloe, I mean, I don't know how you guys are
enduring it. I mean I only sat through a very
short portion when I testified at my fiancees murder trial.
I didn't hear the rest. I don't know how you're
doing it. How are you sitting there listening to testimony
about Nicki's hair and blood.
Speaker 13 (45:00):
It's definitely difficult. I just remember, I have to do this.
I have to say this because I have to be
strong for Nicki's kids, because I want to know what
happened and I want to know what they did to her.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
Joining me, kay Ford and Chloe Saley as difficult as
horrible as it is for them. They are enduring gut
wrenching and graphic testimony in court, and they are representing
their sister Niki, and it ain't over yet. Nicki. Sisters,
(45:33):
thank you for being with us. We wait as justice unfolds,
and now we remember an American hero, Officer Hunter simonsik
Kansas CITYPD, killed in the line of duty at age
twenty six, leaving behind heartbroken parents Ron and Christaine. American hero,
(45:57):
we honor Officer Hunter Simons. Thank you to our guests,
especially sisters Kay and Chloe. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye,
Frien
Host
Nancy Grace
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