October 16, 2025 • 42 mins
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Anne Bremner - Trial lawyer, Legal Analyst, and Author: “Justice in the Age of Judgment;" X: @annembremner, Instagram: @Anne_Bremner
- Caryn Stark - Forensic Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych, FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice
- Dr. Trace Sargent - Search, Rescue & Recovery Expert, PhD in Psychology (with a focus on victimology - criminal profiling - predator behaviors - crime scene analysis); Director of Forensic Investigations and Analysis
- Brian Fitzgibbons - Former Marine and Iraq War Veteran, Director of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security (leads a team of investigators specializing in locating missing persons); Instagram: @uspa_nationwide_security
- Stephen Tipper - Southern Alberta Reporter for Postmedia
- Dave Mack - Crime Stories Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
We searched into the night, says a desperate family after
little Darius, just six years old, vanishes on an extended
family camping trip. How could a little six year old
boy vanish into thin air while the adults were watching
(00:27):
him play with other children. I'm Mascy Grace, this is
Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
What was meant to be a peaceful family getaway in
the wilderness of Alberta, Canada, has turned into a devastating mystery.
The McDougall family, eager to create lasting memories, was thrown
into chaos when one of the young children wandered off.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I have taken the children from a very young age.
All across the country are being and camping. I'm not
sure how you lose a child on a camping trip,
but it's happened a lot.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
This is the first.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Time a child has gone missing on a camping trip.
The parents, the grandparents, There was extended family or family
friends there.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
They were all packing to leave and go back home.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
And you know, when you're packing, packing up the RV
or the station wagon or the SUV, you turn your
back right you're loading it up everything's running crazy. But
how could a little boy vanish into thin air and
be gone so quickly he can't be found?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Okay, let's start at the beginning.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Listen, six year old Darius on a camping trip with dad, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins,
dad's girlfriend Buffy and her daughter Kaya. The family gathers
to celebrate family birthdays, camping in crows nest, passed with rivers, creeks,
hiking areas and small islands close to shore where the
children love to play.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Let me just start right there because I need to
understand the terrain.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Joining me an all star panel.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
But I want to go first to Stephen Tipper, joining
us from Post Media.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Stephen, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Could you just let me just start with the terrain
where they were camping.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Tell me about it.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
Yeah, it's a very uneven train. Lots of different kinds
from you know, uh level ground to a high level
you know, mountainous terrain. You know there's there's bodies of
water there. It's it's you know obviously in the in
the rocky so it's you know, uh, there's quite a
(02:40):
varied you know mixture. I mean, the uh that they were.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
A tree Steven Tipper Steven joining US investigative reporter with
Post Media Check it out. Brian Fitzgibbons, Uh Fitzgibbons, Director
Operations USPA Nationwide Secure who leads a team of expert
investigators specializing in finding missing people.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Look at those trees, Brian. I mean.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
What I'm saying is a child gets lost in those trees,
that's going to be really hard to find, even with dogs,
even with cadets shoulder to shoulder. Did you see that
picture we just showed, Fitzgibbons.
Speaker 6 (03:24):
Yeah, absolutely, this is rugged terrain, Nancy. And you can see,
as you know, the thick forests, the dense forest there
makes not only the search complicated, but for the six
year old child who's missing, he's quickly disoriented once he's
separated from his group.
Speaker 7 (03:43):
So you know, this.
Speaker 6 (03:45):
Terrain is possibly some of the least ideal terrain for
a search like this to take place.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Fitz Gibbons, I worked as a heightmaster and teaching tree identification,
believe it or not, in a national forest.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Had to carry a compass with.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Me just in case you get disoriented, like you were
just saying, in those trees where everywhere you look everything
looks the same.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
That happens. It's a phenomena. Doctor Trey Sargent joining.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
US PhD and psychology focus on victimology and in a
previous life starts rescue recovery expert.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
It happens. It's a phenomena. You get in those trees
and they.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
All seem to look alike, and you get turned around
and you don't know which way where you came from
or where you're trying to go if you don't have
a compass, much less a six.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Year old little boy.
Speaker 8 (04:38):
Absolutely right, Nancy, Children at this age don't have the
capability and the maturity and the growth of their minds
to understand where they are, how to get back where
they want to be. They become very disoriented, they become
very frightened. Oftentimes they hide because that a survival mechanism.
(05:02):
Oftentimes they cover themselves up, they get underneath logs. Not
only the challenge of the terrain itself, but then you
have this very very small child in itself is going
to be very difficult to see, even in the best
of circumstances.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
And to Karen Start joining US forensic psychologists ornow on
TV Radio Trauma Expert at Karenstart dot com. Karen, Okay,
just for a moment, don't think about the little six
year old. Think about the family when they realize he's gone.
And I'm still I got to get back with Steven
Tipper about this. I still don't get how they're camping,
they see him playing with the other children, they're packing,
(05:38):
they turn around, He's gone. I'm trying to figure out
that timeline. But think about them suddenly looking for him, Karen,
and they're upset and emotional, and they're going into the
trees and everybody's disseminating. It's basically all Hgal breaks loose.
Speaker 9 (05:56):
Without a doubt, because how can you not he's so upset.
This is a six year old, their child, their grandchild,
their relative and friend, and everybody is searching for this
little boy. They would be in a complete panic, Nancy,
you would be. I would be what can happen?
Speaker 7 (06:17):
Anything?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Well, you know, put Karen the star cup please, Karen.
You and I talked after this happened. And this is
just a very small, very small comparison. I've told you
when John David about John David when he was before.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
He was three, and we were in that giant.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Super Baby superstore and I was down crouchtywn trying to
find organic sunscreen.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Anyway, I stood up, I turned around.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
There was Lucy. No John David. Remember. I picked Lucy
up like a football and started running and screaming to
lock the doors up front that my son was missing.
Now that you're talking, I've never thought about this before,
But everything else seemed to be a blur, like a
dark gray, reddish blur all around me except for clutching
Lucy and running to those front doors.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I don't even know why I was running toward the
front doors.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I guess to try to stop the doors from opening
somebody taking him out. Little did I know he was
playing hide and seek with mommy and was a few
rows away. But it took a minute to find him.
But when you say they get disoriented, that can happen
because you're so focused tunnel vision on where is You're
not thinking about what's happening around you, and.
Speaker 9 (07:33):
They're like as you describe Nancy in suspended animation in
a way, because you.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Really don't know what to do.
Speaker 9 (07:40):
You're not aware of what you're doing. You're hard to
stop gain breathe, and you're just panicking. How can you
not that's exactly what happened with you and John David.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I'm trying to figure out though, how he could get away,
Karen start and just like that, as a matter of fact,
I want you to hear these facts before we analyze
any further tonight. Where is this six year old little boy?
How did he just vanish into thin air?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Listen to this.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
As the family's packing up to head home, Darius Kaya
and a cousin are on a small island directly across
from the camping area, in clear view of the adults.
The children turn their back for a second and Darius
is gone. Father and grandfather immediately begin searching, going different
directions on the small island to cover the entire area,
planning to find Darius before they meet in the middle.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Stephen Tipper joining us investigative reporter with Post Media. Steven again,
thank you for being with us tonight, Stephen. I'm still
trying to nail down exactly what happened, and I'm not
saying it didn't happen, just like they're describing it. I
remember when Samantha Runyon went missing, she was with her grandma,
(08:51):
and grandma was at I think the kitchen, seeing looking
out into the front yard where Samantha three was playing
with some other children, and a guy comes up and
takes her out of the front yard.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Just like that.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
And before Grandma can get out there, he was gone
sixty mph. So it can't happen just like that. But
I need to understand the running case. Explain to me again,
how did this happen?
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Yeah, so, I mean they were packing up and getting
ready to leave, as you say, and I mean, you know,
they just turn their backs, that's what the family says,
and he was gone. You know, Darius is autistic. He
doesn't like loud noises or bright lights, and that kind
(09:38):
of did affect the search. You know, the searchers did
avoid those kinds of things that they avoided making loud
noises or broad lights during.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
The search, Steve, And I don't understand that. I do
not understand.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
How can you avoid loud noises and lights during a search.
You've got to call out for the boy, maybe on
a a loud speaker, maybe, you know, as it got darker,
I'm sure that they were using bright lights. How were
they avoiding loud sounds and bright lights and searching for him?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Right?
Speaker 5 (10:13):
I mean, I mean the best of the rabbits. I'm
sure that they were doing that. There were some sounds
that he found appealing as well. He had a favorite
song that they would use extensively during the search. They
didn't say what that song was, but certainly you know
there were efforts to try and appeal to Darius Steven.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I see what you're saying. Would that be soothing to him?
Karen start. They were trying to play his favorite maybe
it was a lullaby. They haven't told us what the
song was, trying to find him and lure him out.
Speaker 9 (10:49):
I think that that was a brilliant idea, Nancy, because
children who are artistic, they don't necessarily respond to calling
you their name. Sometimes they're afraid, sometimes they're distracted, and
yet they need to.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Be able to reach him.
Speaker 9 (11:04):
So playing his favorite song that might be something that
he could respond to. They get easily distracted. That happens
all the time. They're impulsive, so and they get scared.
Any little child will get scared, but if you're artistic,
you're particularly scared frightened.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
You're in the forest crime stories with Nanthy Grace.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Joining me now high profile Theattle lawyer Anne Bremner.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
This is her neck of the woods.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
She's a veteran trial lawyer, legal analyst, author of Justice
in the Age of Judgment, and Bremner, I'm going to
thank you for being with us. When we were just
describing and there's Steven Tipper talking about it from Post
Media and Karen Stark about playing the music. All I
can think about Anne is is I still call him Anne.
(12:05):
You haven't seen him in a couple of years, but
John David is six' six, now BUT i still think
of him as Little lucy and Baby John, david AND
i can just ALL i can do and is think
about Baby John david out in that forest And i'm
trying to play his favorite lullaby or song to lure him.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Out and a.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Lot of people have been attacking the family and the,
parents AND i really believe that is uncalled. For just
like WHEN i was in the, SUPERSTORE i was down
on a floor level shelf trying to find organic suntan
lotion AND i wasn't staring right At John david for
(12:51):
a good thirty seconds to a. Minute he had all
those little tennis shoes and he ran several miles. Away
it happens that the best parents have to load the.
Car the best, parents you, know go in the kitchen
to turn off the lady. PEACE i MEAN i Don't
(13:13):
and another, Thing Ane bremner regarding the attacks on the
family for one of the family members to have been
let's just put it out there to be responsible for his,
disappearance what is there a big conspiracy in all the
other family members are lying about, it not telling what they.
KNOW i find that hard to believe that other family
(13:36):
members are covering up for one family member that was
either negligent or intentionally vindictive or. EVIL i don't believe.
Speaker 10 (13:45):
It, Well, nancy is such an honor and a pleasure
to be on with you, again and that's.
Speaker 11 (13:50):
BRILLIANT i, mean you're.
Speaker 10 (13:51):
RIGHT i, mean how could everybody there conspire to cover,
up you, know a disappearance that was something was caused
by one. PERSON i, mean that's just something that's going
to be so difficult to stop for.
Speaker 11 (14:04):
Anybody and so the other thing, isn't.
Speaker 10 (14:06):
Like you, said when someone's going through something that's, dramatic
like when you Lost John, david god forbid for a
short period.
Speaker 11 (14:12):
Of, time why did the pylon you?
Speaker 10 (14:15):
KNOW i think they're having to stop their comments on
social media because people are attacking, them you, know just
kicking them when they're.
Speaker 11 (14:21):
Down they're trying to find their loved. One and you,
KNOW i.
Speaker 10 (14:24):
Live in a state that's got a lot of mountains
and a lot of mostly trees In Washington state for,
trees and people get lost adults.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Too, okay And, branner you're a veteran trial, lawyer and
you got to give me more than. That you would
never stand in front of an appellate court where you've
been many, times or a trial judge where you've been
even more.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Times and, say, hey it.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
HAPPENS i need to understand how it happened BECAUSE i
all used mark class as the gold. Standard and his, Daughter,
pauli went missing and police came to his.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Door the parents were separated and, said, hey your daughter's.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Missing he, said, fine take my, fingerprints look at my,
house go to my, office look at my. Car will
do whatever you have to do so YOU la law
enforcement can move on to find my daughter and who took.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Her and they, did and he was.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Cooperative these parents have been completely, cooperative but a lot
of people online are stuck on the. Parents, now let's
analyze why it's.
Speaker 10 (15:28):
Not the family, well, YEAH i mean at the bottom
line is it, said why would they why would they do?
Speaker 7 (15:36):
This and what's?
Speaker 11 (15:37):
Simonaves and where do you?
Speaker 10 (15:38):
GO i, mean where's the evidence that somehow they secreted him.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Some Believe now that's important because you AND i both
learned and not to say, why you, know why would
anybody kill their?
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Child?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Why there is no good. Why but that's a good
point a go where where are you going to? Go
your whole family's, there your vehicles are.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
There where are you going to hide the child and?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Me you would have to believe the entire group was
covering for one of the PURPSE I a.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
The mom or. Dad that simply is not. Feasible, okay
listen to.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
This searching the island and screaming his, Name darius seems
to have vanished into thin. Air nine to one one
is called and within twenty minutes a command post is
set up and. Organized searches by THE Rcmp search And rescue.
Begin the weather is in our.
Speaker 12 (16:28):
Favor a young man does not suffer from any health.
Speaker 7 (16:34):
Issues it's there is.
Speaker 12 (16:37):
No reason to believe that there will not be a
positive Upcoming global.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
News six year Old darius McDougall known for his infectious
laughter and playful, spirit joined his father and sister's girlfriend
on a camping. Trip they met up with family ready
to create cherished, memories but amids the joy an unthinkable
event was about.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Twentyfold straight out To stephen were joining us investigative reporter post.
Media could you explain to me who all was on
this camping. Trip they were there celebrating multiple. Birthdays who was?
Speaker 5 (17:10):
There, yeah So darius's father is a grandfather of. Grandmother
the father's girlfriend and her daughter were there as well
as various and uncles and cousins were all.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
There you, know To karen start joining us forensic. Psychologists many, people.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
And i'm not agreeing with, them BUT i want to
address it with.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
You many people are attacking the family saying they just
got tired of dealing with an autistic. CHILD i find
that vile to say.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
The parents didn't care about him.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Because he's, autistic or they had just reached their, limit
so what they killed. Him i'm not buying into that at.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
All could you play address?
Speaker 10 (18:00):
That?
Speaker 9 (18:02):
Well you, know that's what happens in these days is really,
terrible where people start attacking, somebody especially under these, circumstances
they're in traumatized by the loss of their. Child AND
i think that it's just so easy to attack someone
without understanding how difficult it is to deal with a
(18:22):
child who's. Autistic you could keep your eye on them
all the time in blink and they'd be. Gone they
are distracted so, easily they can't help, it and they're,
impulsive they run, away they're. Sensitive every noise could bother.
Them so it takes an incredible amount of. Work and
(18:45):
to blame the family for any of this is so, Sad.
Nancy it's sad that that keeps happening, too don't you, Think, well.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
You, KNOW i get the feeling of some of the,
blamers you, know To Anne, bremner a high profile lawyer
joining us out Of, Seattle AND i think that for
a lot of, people it feels better to have somebody
to blame because you're, LIKE i THINK i know what
it is, actually And i'm going to ask our shrinks about.
(19:14):
This you, think, oh the family wasn't watching, Him that's
how he got, away that's why he's, missing because it
makes you feel safer because.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
In your mind you're, like, WELL i would never do.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
That you, know you can extrapolate this And, bremner for,
Instance i'm, whenever let's just think About Molly tibbets Or.
Karina there's so many when women are out jogging and
they get attacked and or. Murdered nay say or, say, oh,
well why was she jogging? Alone or why was she
(19:48):
jogging at? Night or why was she jogging in the
jogging BRA i, mean you can just feel in the
blame because it makes you feel, better makes you feel,
safe because you could, say, WELL i would never do.
THAT i wonder if people just need somebody to. Blame
but that's really not helping the search.
Speaker 10 (20:08):
Effort, no but you're so right on and like Shaden,
freud AND i like looking at something like, this like
why do so many people like to watch and learn
about true?
Speaker 11 (20:17):
Crime it's the same. THING i don't want it to
happen to.
Speaker 10 (20:19):
Me it must have been, something must have been a jogging,
rot must have been where they went at, night it
must have been you, know anything that's to.
Speaker 11 (20:26):
Look at and to. Blame and, finally you, know.
Speaker 10 (20:28):
With social media these, days you know everybody's comment in
all these cases and they're, like oh, WELL i figure
the parents to get you.
Speaker 11 (20:35):
Know all the kind of things we never really saw.
Speaker 10 (20:37):
Before when you see everything On twitter And facebook and
TikTok and everything else is conspiracy theorists and those that
want to blame families and blame people involved in a.
Tragedy let's these cases get you, know investigated.
Speaker 11 (20:52):
In due, course then we'll know what the real. Situation
there's another.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Issue there, though a rimner Because Office gibbons joining, Me
Brian fitzgibbons FROM Uspa Nationwide, Security. Brian the statistics are
when a child goes missing or is, killed overwhelmingly it's
someone close to the, child the, parents the, auntie the
(21:18):
next door Neighbor i'm moving out, now the, neighbor some
weird teacher that has an fixation on the, child but
typically within the. Family so there is that statistic that
doesn't make it true, here but that statistic is.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
Looming the numbers don't lie about, That, nancy that is for,
sure and in this case it's.
Speaker 7 (21:40):
Not you, Know i'll, disagree you know with the previous.
Comment you know this is not a. Conspiracy it's not
out of the.
Speaker 6 (21:49):
Ordinary you, know this group was isolated, camping so no
one else effectively was near nearby them or knew who
this boy, was so for the public to show a
tremendous amount of concern that it was that you, know
had something to do with the, parents it doesn't surprise.
Speaker 7 (22:10):
Me i'm not saying that they. Did it just does
not surprise.
Speaker 10 (22:14):
Me.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
GUYS i just want to give you a tip line
really quickly.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
For zero three five six two two eight six six
repeat four zero three five six two two eight sixty.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Six so the search is.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
On initially you go from a point last scene and
you can expand your radius from.
Speaker 7 (22:34):
There we relying our search and rescue experts for.
Speaker 12 (22:37):
That there are two small rivers that are also in.
Play there's a large bog that we continue to search
and some fairly, steep rugged forested.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Terrain from our friends At Global news trade back out to,
You Stephen.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Tipper what is he describing a large?
Speaker 5 (22:58):
BOG i mean that was among the the bodies of
water that would searched more than once during the eleven
days that they were looking. For there's it, was you,
know there were extensive resources obviously pulled in and you
know that was among them the areas that we.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Searched Doctor Trey sargent joining US PhD in, psychology but
also previously search rescue recovery.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Expert my understanding of what.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
A bog is is like a freshwater.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Marsh it's, spongy.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Quicksand would be overstating, it but mushy earth kind of like,
MUD i would, say with some growth in, it such
as reeds or. Cattails that's HOW i picture. Bog very
difficult to search. In but Also i'm wondering if a
little boy like this little boy can get in that
(24:05):
and get into the bog and perish in the bog
is kind of like a, soft spongy accumulation of, dirt,
clay and.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Plant, Right, Yeah so.
Speaker 8 (24:18):
The bog itself is exactly as you Describe, nancy and
looking at the clips of the search, area it's really
extremely difficult to find this child in those kind of.
Conditions and now you add the, bolls the water and
just really extremely extraordinary different for difficult. Circumstances it's really
(24:40):
going to take all types of resources to find this,
child from, dults the helicopter, searchers, drones, ATVs EVEN forrceba.
Voters every kind of resource is going to be needed
to find this. Child and this extremely difficult search Conditions
ryan n there working under.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Well the search to rescue volunteers mount to over four
hundred people.
Speaker 13 (25:08):
Listen more than four hundred search and rescue volunteers from
fifty teams or to search For. Darius these volunteers contributed
to eleven thousand hours of search effort on the. Ground
they were joined by sixty members of THE Rcmp Specialized
Tactical Support group that were directly involved.
Speaker 14 (25:23):
In searching For.
Speaker 13 (25:24):
Darius the search extended up to twelve kilometers from Where
darius was last. Seen the distance traveled by ground search
assets inside that twenty two square kilometers on field tasks
was more than fivesy three hundred. Kilometers the search extended
up to twelve kilometers from Where darius was last. Seen
the distance traveled by ground search assets inside that twenty
two square kilometers on field tasks was more than five,
(25:45):
thousand three hundred.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Kilometers Great City.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
News just across the, Creek darius was playing with other
children near the, campsite and the adults.
Speaker 7 (25:52):
Were keeping a watchful.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Eye but in a single fleeding moment of, distraction Feel darius.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Vanished joining Me, Now Crime stories investigative reporter on the,
Case Dave Matt, dave let me understand What i'm just.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Hearing so.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
The little Boy varius is on the other side of
a river.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Or a, stream playing on an. Island, What, yeah It's.
Speaker 14 (26:18):
Nancy the camping area actually is right on the. Water
and you're talking about an area that has it does
have creeks and streams and. Ponds in this particular, case
you've got a creak and it's not a big. Distance
it's right, there maybe twenty thirty, Yards, nancy and they
can see the children playing on this little. Island, now
(26:39):
as a, parent when your children are with other, children
we tend to feel a little bit safer in what's taking.
Speaker 7 (26:46):
Place whole safety in, numbers.
Speaker 14 (26:48):
And while they're packing, up they're all keeping an eye
on the. Children it's not just one parent's, child it's
multiple parents and family members that are watching after these
children that are playing in a Confined that's the shocking
part of all of this is that they were right
there and the children are the ones that that we
turned our back and he was.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
Gone friends and family create A facebook Page Bring darius McDougall,
home where the family posts their first message to the.
Public in the, post they explain arriving at the campsite
On friday with the extended family members together and celebrate.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
What they call a few.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
Birthdays as the adults packed to go, home the kids
are playing on the island adjacent the camp just across
the creek where the adults could see. Them Darius kaya
and a cousin were walking playing together with other kids close.
By they turned their backs And darius was.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Gone, okay, granted it doesn't make sense to. Me they
turn their back and now he's. Gone Steven, Tipper i'm
not saying that's not. Correct i'm just trying to understand
SO i can piece together some similars of a, timeline
because nobody can Just. Dan it's like that when you
(28:01):
turn your back and you turn back. Around there had
to be some intervening time period.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Something what are you.
Speaker 5 (28:10):
LEARNING i, mean there's been, little but it's been you,
know given to us by the, family other than the
public statement that they made this, week you, know and
THE rcmp said that they were they see the call
at eleven thirty on That sunday, morning and you know
(28:32):
of a missing. Boy there's you, know that's the call
came in about after an app about an hour after
the family had begun their search For, darius.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
You, know And brimner right there they waited an hour
to call nine one. ONE i also do not find that.
Disturbing And i'll tell you. Why unlike a child that
goes missing from their own, home when the child is
supposed to be asleep and you go in the next
morning and they're, gone this is a lot.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Different because they're out. Camping they started.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Looking for him, first and then when they couldn't find,
him they called nine one.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
ONE i don't find that, Unusual? Ambrimner not at?
Speaker 14 (29:17):
All, YEAH i don't either an.
Speaker 11 (29:19):
ANSWER i, mean the fact is is that they're, thinking,
well he's got to be here.
Speaker 10 (29:22):
SOMEWHERE i, mean you, know he was just here with,
everybody and everyone just faun him and so they. LOOKED
i think an hour is not. EXTREME i mean that.
Speaker 11 (29:31):
The fact is they might have looked for him for
more than an, hour you, know being satisfied they could find,
him you.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Know BUT i do have anne uh control and thinking
you go back to those.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Pictures of the forest where the searchers are, GATHERED i
don't understand looking at this, picture how.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Where he. Was he was across.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
From them on an, island but they could see. Him
AND i have a also a problem with the, time
not the hour that they search for.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
HIM i get, that BUT.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
I still am not buying into he was there and
they turned their back and then he was.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Gone that's like three. Seconds so what really?
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Happened were they playing hide and go seek and he
was hiding and then he was? GONE i Just i'm
not the timeline is concerning to. Me let me look at.
That how can you say he was? THERE i turned my,
BACK i turned, around he was. Gone that part's not
making sense to. Me but let's hear from the mom.
Speaker 15 (30:40):
As a mother who is very concerned about her. Son
i'm pleading with my entire being if anyone Knows i've seen,
anything tell the police anything From september twenty first time
now when The coses passed.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Area that can.
Speaker 15 (30:50):
Help please keep Saying darius's photo on social media update
so that his beautiful face is out.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
There we've just exhausted all search.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Tactics there's just nothing else for us to search at this.
Time but there's nothing to indicate foul play is. Involved,
okay she's saying, That Corporal Gina, slaney she's saying there
is nothing to indicate foul play is, Involved so then
(31:20):
where is? He? Guys that's for our friends At Bridge
To news AND. Cbc, brian that seems inconsistent to.
Speaker 6 (31:27):
Me, yeah that is, inconsistent, right because if you knew,
that if you could rule out that there was no foul,
play we would either have Found darius or we would
have found evidence of what may have. Transpired, Right so
it's impossible to rule out foul play here in my, opinion.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
How a Little, Yeah how can you just right off
the bat rule out foul? Play how did they get to?
Speaker 8 (31:53):
That?
Speaker 6 (31:53):
Brian, yeah it seems that's kind of a whitewashing. Statement
there's no way to say that definitively. Right SO i
would have to, assume Or i'd like to assume that
there is an ongoing investigation, here given That darius has
not been found and nobody has been, recovered that the
(32:15):
police are still interviewing and speaking, with particularly the children
that were supposedly on that walk with.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
The crime stores With Nancy.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Grace you, Know i'm just trying to figure out again
regarding this Terrain Crowsness, pass.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Is it heavily?
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Camped are there a lot of campers, hikers travelers.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
There, Steven, yes for.
Speaker 5 (32:48):
SURE i mean there are several campgrounds in the. AREA
i mean it is a popular spot to go camping
in The Rockies, theirs and it's but, YEAH i mean
there are are you, know lots of people enjoy going
to that area during the summer in the, fall and,
(33:08):
yeah so it's it's A i, mean it's a picture as,
spot you, know to spend weekend away kind. Of so,
yeah it's it's pretty.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Popular, Okay Fitz, gibbons think this through with me for
just one.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Moment we keep referring to this as a remote, area
but the town itself has about fifty seven hundred in.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Population but wait for.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
This according to The, atlas around three hundred thousand people
visit are walking Through Crow's nest every.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Year put, Up Fis, gibbs, Please so it's not like
the family is out there all by. Themselves.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Right you ever heard the Name Israel? Keys is that
ringing a? Bell he was one of the most prolific
serial killers in THE us, ever and he went under the.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Radar but one.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Place he liked to stalk his victims national, PARKS rv,
camps people that were camping.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Intents he loved.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
It and he spoke of, it and his words were
matched up with actual victims that prior to his speaking
had been unsolved. Aumicides so this is like a stalker
of predator's happy hunting. Ground what do you think about
(34:42):
that three hundred thousand strangers a, Year.
Speaker 6 (34:47):
Hey could be and you, know certainly for transient and you,
know serial, killers.
Speaker 7 (34:57):
Folks with nefarious.
Speaker 6 (34:58):
Intentions the these places that have very limited, control campgrounds
and things like that are hunting grounds for. Them so
is there a possibility That darius was separated from his
group and was. Abducted certainly there's enough people there to
(35:20):
make that, possible and it's isolated enough.
Speaker 7 (35:23):
To make the search very.
Speaker 6 (35:24):
Difficult so this is really the worst of a lot
of potential scenarios.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
Here the search For darius includes volunteers and experts. Alike
ground personnel were supported by, helicopters, drones, dogs, horses boat mounted,
sonar swift water rescue and underwater search. Teams it is
a massive operation involving multiple. Agencies the search and rescue
teams covered thirteen square miles over rough terrain and found no,
(35:50):
clothing no, footprints no signs Of.
Speaker 7 (35:52):
Darius were.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Found two volunteer teams of cadaver dogs also searched the
area and detected no trace Of.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Darius, no, no this is really not fitting.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Together now to a doctor trace, sergeant you don't have a, shoe,
clothing a, toy, nothing and cadaver dogs search and don't find.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Anything what people.
Speaker 8 (36:19):
Don't realize our end goal with all these resources is
to Find. Darius but what is just as important as
using all these resources to eliminate areas to, say you know,
what we don't know Where darius, is but we can
say definitively he's not, here which actually helps mooth the
investigation forward and even answer some of those questions that
(36:42):
many people.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Have, yeah what about, it Fitz.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Gibbons not only do they fail to find any trace of,
him like a, toy he had a, shoe a, sock,
clothing a, shirt they also don't get a hit from
any of the cadaver.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Dogs so there he. Is he either he's there hiding.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Alive well that's or he's been completely removed from the,
area or those cadaver dogs would have hit on him
even in a Bog, yeah.
Speaker 7 (37:13):
You would, Think, Nancy and remember this is a six
year old. Boy, okay he's.
Speaker 6 (37:18):
Not going to cover that much terrain by. Foot and
you had police searching rescue. Groups there were upwards of
four hundred individuals.
Speaker 7 (37:29):
Involved by the seventh day of this. Search they were
in line on a grid, search, okay shoulder to.
Speaker 6 (37:35):
Shoulder you, know you had, helicopters thermal imaging, drones people on,
horseback you had swift, teams boat teams searching river beds
and where the swift waters. Were so there was a
very extensive search that took. Place here they've narrowed down
(37:57):
and said some of these areas he's definitely not in
no sign of him in.
Speaker 7 (38:01):
There. Okay so now you're, thinking was there animal?
Speaker 6 (38:05):
Activity there is a high bear population, Here what could happen?
Speaker 7 (38:10):
There would we find? Something would though you would still
hit with that kibbons if that were.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
The, case if a bear or creature had gotten, him
we would still have adverdog.
Speaker 7 (38:20):
Hit you.
Speaker 6 (38:21):
Know the only thing there is you, know he could
be taking miles and miles away outside of that.
Speaker 7 (38:26):
Grid that would be the only.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
The only piece by a, creature because the creature is
not going to take a boy miles and miles. AWAY
a person, would but not a, creature a creature was
stout to, eat it's a, victim not miles and miles
and miles. Away he would go back to its layer
and eat the. Victim at, WORST i believe from What
(38:50):
i've learned in past cases that the, creature the imaginary
creature would eat the victim before it got to its.
LAYER a human would absolutely take the tile miles and miles.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Away so, correct where are you going with?
Speaker 7 (39:06):
That, No i'm saying.
Speaker 6 (39:09):
That you, know it's it's conceivable that a bear could
carry its victim quite some.
Speaker 7 (39:16):
Distance so there's. That and, also you know what we
brought up.
Speaker 6 (39:22):
Before you, know if there was nefarious play here and
there was a.
Speaker 7 (39:27):
Human moving, him you, know and that's quite quite.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Possible, Yeah and if a human moved, him we would
get a scent dog. Hit you remember When Lacy peterson was, Taken,
well that was, her that was her, body but a
god everdog followed her scent all the way from her
home On cozena In modesto all the way to The
San Francisco Bay.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Marina, okay so a regular scent dog would have picked
up on. Him but then there's another shot to the.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
Family in another shot to the family Of. Darius Kyle,
warrior the six year old playing With darius at the
time he went, missing has now passed away At Children's
hospital from a medical. Emergency investigators say her death was
not criminal and not related to darius. Disappearance kyle was
the daughter Of dallas McDougall's, Girlfriend. Buffy they were on
the camping trip With dallas And darius and participated in
(40:21):
the search.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
And, bremner high Profile seattle defense.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Lawyer i've said a million times there is no coincidence
in criminal. Law but we're being told the girlfriend who
was on the trip with her Boyfriend darius's father When
darius goes, missing now her, Child, kiya also six years,
(40:47):
old playing With darius at the time he goes.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Missing she's. Dead What, no you're, right.
Speaker 11 (40:54):
There are no coincidences in criminal.
Speaker 10 (40:56):
Law and, man, see you're exactly right in the deal
saying that he doesn't strike.
Speaker 11 (41:00):
TWICE i, mean it's WHEN.
Speaker 10 (41:04):
I saw, THAT i thought that IF i were the,
Prosecutor i'd be paying a lot more attention to this.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
Case the search is still on for six year Old.
Darius where is? He there's no sign that he's. Dead
hence we are left to Believe darius is a live
sum where.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
If you know or think you know anything.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
About this, child think of your own children at this tender.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Age please dial four zero three five six' two two eight.
Six six repeat four zero three five six' two two.
Eight six' six.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Now we remember, An American, Hero Firefighter Isabella, oskarson idaho department,
land just twenty six killed in, the line of duty leaving,
Behind her Grieving. Parents kelvin And Kathleen American Hero Firefighter
isabella oskarson nancy grace, signing off goodbye friend
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
We searched into the night, says a desperate family after
little Darius, just six years old, vanishes on an extended
family camping trip. How could a little six year old
boy vanish into thin air while the adults were watching
(00:27):
him play with other children. I'm Mascy Grace, this is
Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
What was meant to be a peaceful family getaway in
the wilderness of Alberta, Canada, has turned into a devastating mystery.
The McDougall family, eager to create lasting memories, was thrown
into chaos when one of the young children wandered off.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I have taken the children from a very young age.
All across the country are being and camping. I'm not
sure how you lose a child on a camping trip,
but it's happened a lot.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
This is the first.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Time a child has gone missing on a camping trip.
The parents, the grandparents, There was extended family or family
friends there.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
They were all packing to leave and go back home.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
And you know, when you're packing, packing up the RV
or the station wagon or the SUV, you turn your
back right you're loading it up everything's running crazy. But
how could a little boy vanish into thin air and
be gone so quickly he can't be found?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Okay, let's start at the beginning.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Listen, six year old Darius on a camping trip with dad, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins,
dad's girlfriend Buffy and her daughter Kaya. The family gathers
to celebrate family birthdays, camping in crows nest, passed with rivers, creeks,
hiking areas and small islands close to shore where the
children love to play.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Let me just start right there because I need to
understand the terrain.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Joining me an all star panel.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
But I want to go first to Stephen Tipper, joining
us from Post Media.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Stephen, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Could you just let me just start with the terrain
where they were camping.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Tell me about it.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
Yeah, it's a very uneven train. Lots of different kinds
from you know, uh level ground to a high level
you know, mountainous terrain. You know there's there's bodies of
water there. It's it's you know obviously in the in
the rocky so it's you know, uh, there's quite a
(02:40):
varied you know mixture. I mean, the uh that they were.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
A tree Steven Tipper Steven joining US investigative reporter with
Post Media Check it out. Brian Fitzgibbons, Uh Fitzgibbons, Director
Operations USPA Nationwide Secure who leads a team of expert
investigators specializing in finding missing people.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Look at those trees, Brian. I mean.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
What I'm saying is a child gets lost in those trees,
that's going to be really hard to find, even with dogs,
even with cadets shoulder to shoulder. Did you see that
picture we just showed, Fitzgibbons.
Speaker 6 (03:24):
Yeah, absolutely, this is rugged terrain, Nancy. And you can see,
as you know, the thick forests, the dense forest there
makes not only the search complicated, but for the six
year old child who's missing, he's quickly disoriented once he's
separated from his group.
Speaker 7 (03:43):
So you know, this.
Speaker 6 (03:45):
Terrain is possibly some of the least ideal terrain for
a search like this to take place.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Fitz Gibbons, I worked as a heightmaster and teaching tree identification,
believe it or not, in a national forest.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Had to carry a compass with.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Me just in case you get disoriented, like you were
just saying, in those trees where everywhere you look everything
looks the same.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
That happens. It's a phenomena. Doctor Trey Sargent joining.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
US PhD and psychology focus on victimology and in a
previous life starts rescue recovery expert.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
It happens. It's a phenomena. You get in those trees
and they.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
All seem to look alike, and you get turned around
and you don't know which way where you came from
or where you're trying to go if you don't have
a compass, much less a six.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Year old little boy.
Speaker 8 (04:38):
Absolutely right, Nancy, Children at this age don't have the
capability and the maturity and the growth of their minds
to understand where they are, how to get back where
they want to be. They become very disoriented, they become
very frightened. Oftentimes they hide because that a survival mechanism.
(05:02):
Oftentimes they cover themselves up, they get underneath logs. Not
only the challenge of the terrain itself, but then you
have this very very small child in itself is going
to be very difficult to see, even in the best
of circumstances.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
And to Karen Start joining US forensic psychologists ornow on
TV Radio Trauma Expert at Karenstart dot com. Karen, Okay,
just for a moment, don't think about the little six
year old. Think about the family when they realize he's gone.
And I'm still I got to get back with Steven
Tipper about this. I still don't get how they're camping,
they see him playing with the other children, they're packing,
(05:38):
they turn around, He's gone. I'm trying to figure out
that timeline. But think about them suddenly looking for him, Karen,
and they're upset and emotional, and they're going into the
trees and everybody's disseminating. It's basically all Hgal breaks loose.
Speaker 9 (05:56):
Without a doubt, because how can you not he's so upset.
This is a six year old, their child, their grandchild,
their relative and friend, and everybody is searching for this
little boy. They would be in a complete panic, Nancy,
you would be. I would be what can happen?
Speaker 7 (06:17):
Anything?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Well, you know, put Karen the star cup please, Karen.
You and I talked after this happened. And this is
just a very small, very small comparison. I've told you
when John David about John David when he was before.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
He was three, and we were in that giant.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Super Baby superstore and I was down crouchtywn trying to
find organic sunscreen.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Anyway, I stood up, I turned around.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
There was Lucy. No John David. Remember. I picked Lucy
up like a football and started running and screaming to
lock the doors up front that my son was missing.
Now that you're talking, I've never thought about this before,
But everything else seemed to be a blur, like a
dark gray, reddish blur all around me except for clutching
Lucy and running to those front doors.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I don't even know why I was running toward the
front doors.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I guess to try to stop the doors from opening
somebody taking him out. Little did I know he was
playing hide and seek with mommy and was a few
rows away. But it took a minute to find him.
But when you say they get disoriented, that can happen
because you're so focused tunnel vision on where is You're
not thinking about what's happening around you, and.
Speaker 9 (07:33):
They're like as you describe Nancy in suspended animation in
a way, because you.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Really don't know what to do.
Speaker 9 (07:40):
You're not aware of what you're doing. You're hard to
stop gain breathe, and you're just panicking. How can you
not that's exactly what happened with you and John David.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I'm trying to figure out though, how he could get away,
Karen start and just like that, as a matter of fact,
I want you to hear these facts before we analyze
any further tonight. Where is this six year old little boy?
How did he just vanish into thin air?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Listen to this.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
As the family's packing up to head home, Darius Kaya
and a cousin are on a small island directly across
from the camping area, in clear view of the adults.
The children turn their back for a second and Darius
is gone. Father and grandfather immediately begin searching, going different
directions on the small island to cover the entire area,
planning to find Darius before they meet in the middle.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Stephen Tipper joining us investigative reporter with Post Media. Steven again,
thank you for being with us tonight, Stephen. I'm still
trying to nail down exactly what happened, and I'm not
saying it didn't happen, just like they're describing it. I
remember when Samantha Runyon went missing, she was with her grandma,
(08:51):
and grandma was at I think the kitchen, seeing looking
out into the front yard where Samantha three was playing
with some other children, and a guy comes up and
takes her out of the front yard.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Just like that.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
And before Grandma can get out there, he was gone
sixty mph. So it can't happen just like that. But
I need to understand the running case. Explain to me again,
how did this happen?
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Yeah, so, I mean they were packing up and getting
ready to leave, as you say, and I mean, you know,
they just turn their backs, that's what the family says,
and he was gone. You know, Darius is autistic. He
doesn't like loud noises or bright lights, and that kind
(09:38):
of did affect the search. You know, the searchers did
avoid those kinds of things that they avoided making loud
noises or broad lights during.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
The search, Steve, And I don't understand that. I do
not understand.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
How can you avoid loud noises and lights during a search.
You've got to call out for the boy, maybe on
a a loud speaker, maybe, you know, as it got darker,
I'm sure that they were using bright lights. How were
they avoiding loud sounds and bright lights and searching for him?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Right?
Speaker 5 (10:13):
I mean, I mean the best of the rabbits. I'm
sure that they were doing that. There were some sounds
that he found appealing as well. He had a favorite
song that they would use extensively during the search. They
didn't say what that song was, but certainly you know
there were efforts to try and appeal to Darius Steven.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I see what you're saying. Would that be soothing to him?
Karen start. They were trying to play his favorite maybe
it was a lullaby. They haven't told us what the
song was, trying to find him and lure him out.
Speaker 9 (10:49):
I think that that was a brilliant idea, Nancy, because
children who are artistic, they don't necessarily respond to calling
you their name. Sometimes they're afraid, sometimes they're distracted, and
yet they need to.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Be able to reach him.
Speaker 9 (11:04):
So playing his favorite song that might be something that
he could respond to. They get easily distracted. That happens
all the time. They're impulsive, so and they get scared.
Any little child will get scared, but if you're artistic,
you're particularly scared frightened.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
You're in the forest crime stories with Nanthy Grace.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Joining me now high profile Theattle lawyer Anne Bremner.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
This is her neck of the woods.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
She's a veteran trial lawyer, legal analyst, author of Justice
in the Age of Judgment, and Bremner, I'm going to
thank you for being with us. When we were just
describing and there's Steven Tipper talking about it from Post
Media and Karen Stark about playing the music. All I
can think about Anne is is I still call him Anne.
(12:05):
You haven't seen him in a couple of years, but
John David is six' six, now BUT i still think
of him as Little lucy and Baby John, david AND
i can just ALL i can do and is think
about Baby John david out in that forest And i'm
trying to play his favorite lullaby or song to lure him.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Out and a.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Lot of people have been attacking the family and the,
parents AND i really believe that is uncalled. For just
like WHEN i was in the, SUPERSTORE i was down
on a floor level shelf trying to find organic suntan
lotion AND i wasn't staring right At John david for
(12:51):
a good thirty seconds to a. Minute he had all
those little tennis shoes and he ran several miles. Away
it happens that the best parents have to load the.
Car the best, parents you, know go in the kitchen
to turn off the lady. PEACE i MEAN i Don't
(13:13):
and another, Thing Ane bremner regarding the attacks on the
family for one of the family members to have been
let's just put it out there to be responsible for his,
disappearance what is there a big conspiracy in all the
other family members are lying about, it not telling what they.
KNOW i find that hard to believe that other family
(13:36):
members are covering up for one family member that was
either negligent or intentionally vindictive or. EVIL i don't believe.
Speaker 10 (13:45):
It, Well, nancy is such an honor and a pleasure
to be on with you, again and that's.
Speaker 11 (13:50):
BRILLIANT i, mean you're.
Speaker 10 (13:51):
RIGHT i, mean how could everybody there conspire to cover,
up you, know a disappearance that was something was caused
by one. PERSON i, mean that's just something that's going
to be so difficult to stop for.
Speaker 11 (14:04):
Anybody and so the other thing, isn't.
Speaker 10 (14:06):
Like you, said when someone's going through something that's, dramatic
like when you Lost John, david god forbid for a
short period.
Speaker 11 (14:12):
Of, time why did the pylon you?
Speaker 10 (14:15):
KNOW i think they're having to stop their comments on
social media because people are attacking, them you, know just
kicking them when they're.
Speaker 11 (14:21):
Down they're trying to find their loved. One and you,
KNOW i.
Speaker 10 (14:24):
Live in a state that's got a lot of mountains
and a lot of mostly trees In Washington state for,
trees and people get lost adults.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Too, okay And, branner you're a veteran trial, lawyer and
you got to give me more than. That you would
never stand in front of an appellate court where you've
been many, times or a trial judge where you've been
even more.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Times and, say, hey it.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
HAPPENS i need to understand how it happened BECAUSE i
all used mark class as the gold. Standard and his, Daughter,
pauli went missing and police came to his.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Door the parents were separated and, said, hey your daughter's.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Missing he, said, fine take my, fingerprints look at my,
house go to my, office look at my. Car will
do whatever you have to do so YOU la law
enforcement can move on to find my daughter and who took.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Her and they, did and he was.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Cooperative these parents have been completely, cooperative but a lot
of people online are stuck on the. Parents, now let's
analyze why it's.
Speaker 10 (15:28):
Not the family, well, YEAH i mean at the bottom
line is it, said why would they why would they do?
Speaker 7 (15:36):
This and what's?
Speaker 11 (15:37):
Simonaves and where do you?
Speaker 10 (15:38):
GO i, mean where's the evidence that somehow they secreted him.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Some Believe now that's important because you AND i both
learned and not to say, why you, know why would
anybody kill their?
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Child?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Why there is no good. Why but that's a good
point a go where where are you going to? Go
your whole family's, there your vehicles are.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
There where are you going to hide the child and?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Me you would have to believe the entire group was
covering for one of the PURPSE I a.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
The mom or. Dad that simply is not. Feasible, okay
listen to.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
This searching the island and screaming his, Name darius seems
to have vanished into thin. Air nine to one one
is called and within twenty minutes a command post is
set up and. Organized searches by THE Rcmp search And rescue.
Begin the weather is in our.
Speaker 12 (16:28):
Favor a young man does not suffer from any health.
Speaker 7 (16:34):
Issues it's there is.
Speaker 12 (16:37):
No reason to believe that there will not be a
positive Upcoming global.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
News six year Old darius McDougall known for his infectious
laughter and playful, spirit joined his father and sister's girlfriend
on a camping. Trip they met up with family ready
to create cherished, memories but amids the joy an unthinkable
event was about.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Twentyfold straight out To stephen were joining us investigative reporter post.
Media could you explain to me who all was on
this camping. Trip they were there celebrating multiple. Birthdays who was?
Speaker 5 (17:10):
There, yeah So darius's father is a grandfather of. Grandmother
the father's girlfriend and her daughter were there as well
as various and uncles and cousins were all.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
There you, know To karen start joining us forensic. Psychologists many, people.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
And i'm not agreeing with, them BUT i want to
address it with.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
You many people are attacking the family saying they just
got tired of dealing with an autistic. CHILD i find
that vile to say.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
The parents didn't care about him.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Because he's, autistic or they had just reached their, limit
so what they killed. Him i'm not buying into that at.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
All could you play address?
Speaker 10 (18:00):
That?
Speaker 9 (18:02):
Well you, know that's what happens in these days is really,
terrible where people start attacking, somebody especially under these, circumstances
they're in traumatized by the loss of their. Child AND
i think that it's just so easy to attack someone
without understanding how difficult it is to deal with a
(18:22):
child who's. Autistic you could keep your eye on them
all the time in blink and they'd be. Gone they
are distracted so, easily they can't help, it and they're,
impulsive they run, away they're. Sensitive every noise could bother.
Them so it takes an incredible amount of. Work and
(18:45):
to blame the family for any of this is so, Sad.
Nancy it's sad that that keeps happening, too don't you, Think, well.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
You, KNOW i get the feeling of some of the,
blamers you, know To Anne, bremner a high profile lawyer
joining us out Of, Seattle AND i think that for
a lot of, people it feels better to have somebody
to blame because you're, LIKE i THINK i know what
it is, actually And i'm going to ask our shrinks about.
(19:14):
This you, think, oh the family wasn't watching, Him that's
how he got, away that's why he's, missing because it
makes you feel safer because.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
In your mind you're, like, WELL i would never do.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
That you, know you can extrapolate this And, bremner for,
Instance i'm, whenever let's just think About Molly tibbets Or.
Karina there's so many when women are out jogging and
they get attacked and or. Murdered nay say or, say, oh,
well why was she jogging? Alone or why was she
(19:48):
jogging at? Night or why was she jogging in the
jogging BRA i, mean you can just feel in the
blame because it makes you feel, better makes you feel,
safe because you could, say, WELL i would never do.
THAT i wonder if people just need somebody to. Blame
but that's really not helping the search.
Speaker 10 (20:08):
Effort, no but you're so right on and like Shaden,
freud AND i like looking at something like, this like
why do so many people like to watch and learn
about true?
Speaker 11 (20:17):
Crime it's the same. THING i don't want it to
happen to.
Speaker 10 (20:19):
Me it must have been, something must have been a jogging,
rot must have been where they went at, night it
must have been you, know anything that's to.
Speaker 11 (20:26):
Look at and to. Blame and, finally you, know.
Speaker 10 (20:28):
With social media these, days you know everybody's comment in
all these cases and they're, like oh, WELL i figure
the parents to get you.
Speaker 11 (20:35):
Know all the kind of things we never really saw.
Speaker 10 (20:37):
Before when you see everything On twitter And facebook and
TikTok and everything else is conspiracy theorists and those that
want to blame families and blame people involved in a.
Tragedy let's these cases get you, know investigated.
Speaker 11 (20:52):
In due, course then we'll know what the real. Situation
there's another.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Issue there, though a rimner Because Office gibbons joining, Me
Brian fitzgibbons FROM Uspa Nationwide, Security. Brian the statistics are
when a child goes missing or is, killed overwhelmingly it's
someone close to the, child the, parents the, auntie the
(21:18):
next door Neighbor i'm moving out, now the, neighbor some
weird teacher that has an fixation on the, child but
typically within the. Family so there is that statistic that
doesn't make it true, here but that statistic is.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
Looming the numbers don't lie about, That, nancy that is for,
sure and in this case it's.
Speaker 7 (21:40):
Not you, Know i'll, disagree you know with the previous.
Comment you know this is not a. Conspiracy it's not
out of the.
Speaker 6 (21:49):
Ordinary you, know this group was isolated, camping so no
one else effectively was near nearby them or knew who
this boy, was so for the public to show a
tremendous amount of concern that it was that you, know
had something to do with the, parents it doesn't surprise.
Speaker 7 (22:10):
Me i'm not saying that they. Did it just does
not surprise.
Speaker 10 (22:14):
Me.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
GUYS i just want to give you a tip line
really quickly.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
For zero three five six two two eight six six
repeat four zero three five six two two eight sixty.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Six so the search is.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
On initially you go from a point last scene and
you can expand your radius from.
Speaker 7 (22:34):
There we relying our search and rescue experts for.
Speaker 12 (22:37):
That there are two small rivers that are also in.
Play there's a large bog that we continue to search
and some fairly, steep rugged forested.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Terrain from our friends At Global news trade back out to,
You Stephen.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Tipper what is he describing a large?
Speaker 5 (22:58):
BOG i mean that was among the the bodies of
water that would searched more than once during the eleven
days that they were looking. For there's it, was you,
know there were extensive resources obviously pulled in and you
know that was among them the areas that we.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Searched Doctor Trey sargent joining US PhD in, psychology but
also previously search rescue recovery.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Expert my understanding of what.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
A bog is is like a freshwater.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Marsh it's, spongy.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Quicksand would be overstating, it but mushy earth kind of like,
MUD i would, say with some growth in, it such
as reeds or. Cattails that's HOW i picture. Bog very
difficult to search. In but Also i'm wondering if a
little boy like this little boy can get in that
(24:05):
and get into the bog and perish in the bog
is kind of like a, soft spongy accumulation of, dirt,
clay and.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Plant, Right, Yeah so.
Speaker 8 (24:18):
The bog itself is exactly as you Describe, nancy and
looking at the clips of the search, area it's really
extremely difficult to find this child in those kind of.
Conditions and now you add the, bolls the water and
just really extremely extraordinary different for difficult. Circumstances it's really
(24:40):
going to take all types of resources to find this,
child from, dults the helicopter, searchers, drones, ATVs EVEN forrceba.
Voters every kind of resource is going to be needed
to find this. Child and this extremely difficult search Conditions
ryan n there working under.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Well the search to rescue volunteers mount to over four
hundred people.
Speaker 13 (25:08):
Listen more than four hundred search and rescue volunteers from
fifty teams or to search For. Darius these volunteers contributed
to eleven thousand hours of search effort on the. Ground
they were joined by sixty members of THE Rcmp Specialized
Tactical Support group that were directly involved.
Speaker 14 (25:23):
In searching For.
Speaker 13 (25:24):
Darius the search extended up to twelve kilometers from Where
darius was last. Seen the distance traveled by ground search
assets inside that twenty two square kilometers on field tasks
was more than fivesy three hundred. Kilometers the search extended
up to twelve kilometers from Where darius was last. Seen
the distance traveled by ground search assets inside that twenty
two square kilometers on field tasks was more than five,
(25:45):
thousand three hundred.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Kilometers Great City.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
News just across the, Creek darius was playing with other
children near the, campsite and the adults.
Speaker 7 (25:52):
Were keeping a watchful.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Eye but in a single fleeding moment of, distraction Feel darius.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Vanished joining Me, Now Crime stories investigative reporter on the,
Case Dave Matt, dave let me understand What i'm just.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Hearing so.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
The little Boy varius is on the other side of
a river.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Or a, stream playing on an. Island, What, yeah It's.
Speaker 14 (26:18):
Nancy the camping area actually is right on the. Water
and you're talking about an area that has it does
have creeks and streams and. Ponds in this particular, case
you've got a creak and it's not a big. Distance
it's right, there maybe twenty thirty, Yards, nancy and they
can see the children playing on this little. Island, now
(26:39):
as a, parent when your children are with other, children
we tend to feel a little bit safer in what's taking.
Speaker 7 (26:46):
Place whole safety in, numbers.
Speaker 14 (26:48):
And while they're packing, up they're all keeping an eye
on the. Children it's not just one parent's, child it's
multiple parents and family members that are watching after these
children that are playing in a Confined that's the shocking
part of all of this is that they were right
there and the children are the ones that that we
turned our back and he was.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
Gone friends and family create A facebook Page Bring darius McDougall,
home where the family posts their first message to the.
Public in the, post they explain arriving at the campsite
On friday with the extended family members together and celebrate.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
What they call a few.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
Birthdays as the adults packed to go, home the kids
are playing on the island adjacent the camp just across
the creek where the adults could see. Them Darius kaya
and a cousin were walking playing together with other kids close.
By they turned their backs And darius was.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Gone, okay, granted it doesn't make sense to. Me they
turn their back and now he's. Gone Steven, Tipper i'm
not saying that's not. Correct i'm just trying to understand
SO i can piece together some similars of a, timeline
because nobody can Just. Dan it's like that when you
(28:01):
turn your back and you turn back. Around there had
to be some intervening time period.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Something what are you.
Speaker 5 (28:10):
LEARNING i, mean there's been, little but it's been you,
know given to us by the, family other than the
public statement that they made this, week you, know and
THE rcmp said that they were they see the call
at eleven thirty on That sunday, morning and you know
(28:32):
of a missing. Boy there's you, know that's the call
came in about after an app about an hour after
the family had begun their search For, darius.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
You, know And brimner right there they waited an hour
to call nine one. ONE i also do not find that.
Disturbing And i'll tell you. Why unlike a child that
goes missing from their own, home when the child is
supposed to be asleep and you go in the next
morning and they're, gone this is a lot.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Different because they're out. Camping they started.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Looking for him, first and then when they couldn't find,
him they called nine one.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
ONE i don't find that, Unusual? Ambrimner not at?
Speaker 14 (29:17):
All, YEAH i don't either an.
Speaker 11 (29:19):
ANSWER i, mean the fact is is that they're, thinking,
well he's got to be here.
Speaker 10 (29:22):
SOMEWHERE i, mean you, know he was just here with,
everybody and everyone just faun him and so they. LOOKED
i think an hour is not. EXTREME i mean that.
Speaker 11 (29:31):
The fact is they might have looked for him for
more than an, hour you, know being satisfied they could find,
him you.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Know BUT i do have anne uh control and thinking
you go back to those.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Pictures of the forest where the searchers are, GATHERED i
don't understand looking at this, picture how.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Where he. Was he was across.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
From them on an, island but they could see. Him
AND i have a also a problem with the, time
not the hour that they search for.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
HIM i get, that BUT.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
I still am not buying into he was there and
they turned their back and then he was.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Gone that's like three. Seconds so what really?
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Happened were they playing hide and go seek and he
was hiding and then he was? GONE i Just i'm
not the timeline is concerning to. Me let me look at.
That how can you say he was? THERE i turned my,
BACK i turned, around he was. Gone that part's not
making sense to. Me but let's hear from the mom.
Speaker 15 (30:40):
As a mother who is very concerned about her. Son
i'm pleading with my entire being if anyone Knows i've seen,
anything tell the police anything From september twenty first time
now when The coses passed.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Area that can.
Speaker 15 (30:50):
Help please keep Saying darius's photo on social media update
so that his beautiful face is out.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
There we've just exhausted all search.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Tactics there's just nothing else for us to search at this.
Time but there's nothing to indicate foul play is. Involved,
okay she's saying, That Corporal Gina, slaney she's saying there
is nothing to indicate foul play is, Involved so then
(31:20):
where is? He? Guys that's for our friends At Bridge
To news AND. Cbc, brian that seems inconsistent to.
Speaker 6 (31:27):
Me, yeah that is, inconsistent, right because if you knew,
that if you could rule out that there was no foul,
play we would either have Found darius or we would
have found evidence of what may have. Transpired, Right so
it's impossible to rule out foul play here in my, opinion.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
How a Little, Yeah how can you just right off
the bat rule out foul? Play how did they get to?
Speaker 8 (31:53):
That?
Speaker 6 (31:53):
Brian, yeah it seems that's kind of a whitewashing. Statement
there's no way to say that definitively. Right SO i
would have to, assume Or i'd like to assume that
there is an ongoing investigation, here given That darius has
not been found and nobody has been, recovered that the
(32:15):
police are still interviewing and speaking, with particularly the children
that were supposedly on that walk with.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
The crime stores With Nancy.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Grace you, Know i'm just trying to figure out again
regarding this Terrain Crowsness, pass.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Is it heavily?
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Camped are there a lot of campers, hikers travelers.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
There, Steven, yes for.
Speaker 5 (32:48):
SURE i mean there are several campgrounds in the. AREA
i mean it is a popular spot to go camping
in The Rockies, theirs and it's but, YEAH i mean
there are are you, know lots of people enjoy going
to that area during the summer in the, fall and,
(33:08):
yeah so it's it's A i, mean it's a picture as,
spot you, know to spend weekend away kind. Of so,
yeah it's it's pretty.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Popular, Okay Fitz, gibbons think this through with me for
just one.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Moment we keep referring to this as a remote, area
but the town itself has about fifty seven hundred in.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Population but wait for.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
This according to The, atlas around three hundred thousand people
visit are walking Through Crow's nest every.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Year put, Up Fis, gibbs, Please so it's not like
the family is out there all by. Themselves.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Right you ever heard the Name Israel? Keys is that
ringing a? Bell he was one of the most prolific
serial killers in THE us, ever and he went under the.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
Radar but one.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Place he liked to stalk his victims national, PARKS rv,
camps people that were camping.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Intents he loved.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
It and he spoke of, it and his words were
matched up with actual victims that prior to his speaking
had been unsolved. Aumicides so this is like a stalker
of predator's happy hunting. Ground what do you think about
(34:42):
that three hundred thousand strangers a, Year.
Speaker 6 (34:47):
Hey could be and you, know certainly for transient and you,
know serial, killers.
Speaker 7 (34:57):
Folks with nefarious.
Speaker 6 (34:58):
Intentions the these places that have very limited, control campgrounds
and things like that are hunting grounds for. Them so
is there a possibility That darius was separated from his
group and was. Abducted certainly there's enough people there to
(35:20):
make that, possible and it's isolated enough.
Speaker 7 (35:23):
To make the search very.
Speaker 6 (35:24):
Difficult so this is really the worst of a lot
of potential scenarios.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
Here the search For darius includes volunteers and experts. Alike
ground personnel were supported by, helicopters, drones, dogs, horses boat mounted,
sonar swift water rescue and underwater search. Teams it is
a massive operation involving multiple. Agencies the search and rescue
teams covered thirteen square miles over rough terrain and found no,
(35:50):
clothing no, footprints no signs Of.
Speaker 7 (35:52):
Darius were.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Found two volunteer teams of cadaver dogs also searched the
area and detected no trace Of.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Darius, no, no this is really not fitting.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Together now to a doctor trace, sergeant you don't have a, shoe,
clothing a, toy, nothing and cadaver dogs search and don't find.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Anything what people.
Speaker 8 (36:19):
Don't realize our end goal with all these resources is
to Find. Darius but what is just as important as
using all these resources to eliminate areas to, say you know,
what we don't know Where darius, is but we can
say definitively he's not, here which actually helps mooth the
investigation forward and even answer some of those questions that
(36:42):
many people.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Have, yeah what about, it Fitz.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Gibbons not only do they fail to find any trace of,
him like a, toy he had a, shoe a, sock,
clothing a, shirt they also don't get a hit from
any of the cadaver.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Dogs so there he. Is he either he's there hiding.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Alive well that's or he's been completely removed from the,
area or those cadaver dogs would have hit on him
even in a Bog, yeah.
Speaker 7 (37:13):
You would, Think, Nancy and remember this is a six
year old. Boy, okay he's.
Speaker 6 (37:18):
Not going to cover that much terrain by. Foot and
you had police searching rescue. Groups there were upwards of
four hundred individuals.
Speaker 7 (37:29):
Involved by the seventh day of this. Search they were
in line on a grid, search, okay shoulder to.
Speaker 6 (37:35):
Shoulder you, know you had, helicopters thermal imaging, drones people on,
horseback you had swift, teams boat teams searching river beds
and where the swift waters. Were so there was a
very extensive search that took. Place here they've narrowed down
(37:57):
and said some of these areas he's definitely not in
no sign of him in.
Speaker 7 (38:01):
There. Okay so now you're, thinking was there animal?
Speaker 6 (38:05):
Activity there is a high bear population, Here what could happen?
Speaker 7 (38:10):
There would we find? Something would though you would still
hit with that kibbons if that were.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
The, case if a bear or creature had gotten, him
we would still have adverdog.
Speaker 7 (38:20):
Hit you.
Speaker 6 (38:21):
Know the only thing there is you, know he could
be taking miles and miles away outside of that.
Speaker 7 (38:26):
Grid that would be the only.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
The only piece by a, creature because the creature is
not going to take a boy miles and miles. AWAY
a person, would but not a, creature a creature was
stout to, eat it's a, victim not miles and miles
and miles. Away he would go back to its layer
and eat the. Victim at, WORST i believe from What
(38:50):
i've learned in past cases that the, creature the imaginary
creature would eat the victim before it got to its.
LAYER a human would absolutely take the tile miles and miles.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Away so, correct where are you going with?
Speaker 7 (39:06):
That, No i'm saying.
Speaker 6 (39:09):
That you, know it's it's conceivable that a bear could
carry its victim quite some.
Speaker 7 (39:16):
Distance so there's. That and, also you know what we
brought up.
Speaker 6 (39:22):
Before you, know if there was nefarious play here and
there was a.
Speaker 7 (39:27):
Human moving, him you, know and that's quite quite.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Possible, Yeah and if a human moved, him we would
get a scent dog. Hit you remember When Lacy peterson was, Taken,
well that was, her that was her, body but a
god everdog followed her scent all the way from her
home On cozena In modesto all the way to The
San Francisco Bay.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Marina, okay so a regular scent dog would have picked
up on. Him but then there's another shot to the.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
Family in another shot to the family Of. Darius Kyle,
warrior the six year old playing With darius at the
time he went, missing has now passed away At Children's
hospital from a medical. Emergency investigators say her death was
not criminal and not related to darius. Disappearance kyle was
the daughter Of dallas McDougall's, Girlfriend. Buffy they were on
the camping trip With dallas And darius and participated in
(40:21):
the search.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
And, bremner high Profile seattle defense.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Lawyer i've said a million times there is no coincidence
in criminal. Law but we're being told the girlfriend who
was on the trip with her Boyfriend darius's father When
darius goes, missing now her, Child, kiya also six years,
(40:47):
old playing With darius at the time he goes.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Missing she's. Dead What, no you're, right.
Speaker 11 (40:54):
There are no coincidences in criminal.
Speaker 10 (40:56):
Law and, man, see you're exactly right in the deal
saying that he doesn't strike.
Speaker 11 (41:00):
TWICE i, mean it's WHEN.
Speaker 10 (41:04):
I saw, THAT i thought that IF i were the,
Prosecutor i'd be paying a lot more attention to this.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
Case the search is still on for six year Old.
Darius where is? He there's no sign that he's. Dead
hence we are left to Believe darius is a live
sum where.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
If you know or think you know anything.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
About this, child think of your own children at this tender.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Age please dial four zero three five six' two two eight.
Six six repeat four zero three five six' two two.
Eight six' six.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Now we remember, An American, Hero Firefighter Isabella, oskarson idaho department,
land just twenty six killed in, the line of duty leaving,
Behind her Grieving. Parents kelvin And Kathleen American Hero Firefighter
isabella oskarson nancy grace, signing off goodbye friend
Host
Nancy Grace
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