April 29, 2025 • 42 mins
Wendy Williams’ guardianship battle intensified after sources alleged a judge told her she has no hope of restarting her career.
Williams appeared before Judge Lisa Sokoloff, who criticized her niece, Alex Finnie, accusing her of leaking information to the media and threatening sanctions for any future conduct.
Williams said she feels like she is in prison as she fights to end her court-appointed guardianship.
Almost on cue, the situation escalated when Coterie, the assisted living facility where Williams lives on the fifth floor, called police and claimed Finnie had kidnapped her.
According to a report Coterie filed with the NYPD, Finnie evaded staff and took Williams out to an Italian restaurant.
After police were called, Williams and Finnie cited the incident as evidence of how restrictive the guardianship has allegedly become. Speaking to paparazzi outside the facility, Finnie noted that Williams’ guardian, Sabrina Morrissey, claims Williams can come and go freely and that no family visits are blocked. Finnie challenged that, pointing out that staff escorted Williams to the elevator, yet Coterie still called police.
“Clearly, they are lying to me when they say I can go out and do what I want to do,” Williams told the interviewer.
Williams said she can only leave the facility’s fifth-floor memory unit with permission and an attendant to unlock the elevator.
This week, a judge approved an emergency petition filed by Williams’ attorney to move her from what she called a “luxury prison” to a less restrictive environment. Judge Sokoloff granted the request, and Williams will relocate to a private condo where she will have more freedom to come and go and receive visitors
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Elizabeth J. McInturff - Attorney Specializing in Guardianship Issues / Partner at Selzer Gurvitch; LinkedIn @elizabethmcinturff, Facebook @elizabeth.mcinturff.12
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker,” and featured in hit show: "Paris in Love" on Peacock; Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, Twitter: @DrBethanyLive
- Ashley Wardlow - Private Investigator and Chief Operations Officers at Nathans Investigations; IG: @miamiprivateinvestigators, FB: nathansinvestigations
- Dr. Kendall Crowns - Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth), NEW Podcast --- launching on April 7th, Lecturer: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU (Texas Christian University)
- Jessica Finn - Senior Investigative Reporter at The U.S. Sun; jessicafinnnyc (Twitter/ IG) @jessicafinn.bsky.social
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, the judge in the Wendy Williams case has done
it again, spouting off with completely inappropriate and uncalled for
remarks aimed at Wendy Williams, the TV superstar.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us. In the last days. Things get even
more weird and even more intense. In the Guardianship Battle
TV star Wendy Williams is waging in court. According to sources,
the judge says to Wendy, quote, your career is says
(00:49):
to Wendy, your career is over. You have no hope
of restarting your career. Why would this judge, Judge Lisa
Sokoloff say that. This is after Wendy shows up in
court and appears. The judge went on to rail on
Wendy's niece Alex Finney, accusing her of leaking information and
(01:11):
threatening her with sanctions. Okay, wait a minute, what's wrong
with reporting what happened in court? What is wrong with
this judge? Okay, let's start at the beginning. Let's start
with Wendy Williams.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Wendy Williams celebrates a victory in her controversial guardianship battle
as a judge reportedly allows the ex talk show host
queen to move from a senior living.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Facility living facility. My roar in it is more like
a prison, Wendy had stated over and over. She's surrounded
by seventy, eighty and ninety year olds. No offense. But
that is not Wendy Williams' style. And I don't like
the way this judge is talking down to Wendy Williams.
(01:55):
Uh uh n oh, you know, a little power is
a dangerous thing, judge, listen to this.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Photographers frequently crowd below Wendy Williams window at Koderie Hudson Yards,
where the sixty year old resides in the memory care unit.
One such photographer watches as Williams throws the scrap of
paper from her window, scribbled on the note help Wendy.
The paparazzi calls for a welfare check, and hours later
NYPD officers escort Williams out of the facility into a
(02:25):
waiting ambulance.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Where I lived at this memory unit on this floor.
You know, I just needed a breath of fresh air,
you know, And I'm saying I needed to see the doctors.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
So that's why I went to the hospital.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
That's from our friends at ABC. I am on Wendy's
side here. Why is it she's got a guardian watching
out for her that she has to send up a note,
throw it out her window and the paparazzi get it
and they get her out with police escort. That doesn't
(03:02):
sound right to me? Does it sound right to you
that she has to throw a help me note out
a window? Where's a conservator? Why has Wendy been in
lockdown for all this time? Listen?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Wendy Williams says she feels like she's in prison as
she continues her fight to end her court appoint a
guardianship as if almost on cue. Williams may have proved
her point when the assisted living facility where she resides
on the fifth floor, Coterie, calls police, claiming the sixty
year old TV host has been kidnapped by her niece,
Alex Finnie. The report Coterie filed with the NYPD, claims
(03:37):
Finny evaded staff by taking her aunt Wendy out of
the building to eat an Italian restaurant.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Uh uh huh ann oh, joining me in an All Star panel.
First to Jessica Fann joining me, senior investigative reporter at
the US SUN who was at the courthouse as Wendy
is battling for her freedom and got some incredible exclusive shots.
(04:03):
Wendy is walking, she's talking, she's smiling, She's flanked by friends, relatives.
I don't like this one bit. That the niece of
Wendy goes and takes her out to a simple lunch
(04:24):
and then the assisted care facility I a lockdown, actually
calls the police with a kidnapped claim on the niece.
Are you serious? It was a.
Speaker 6 (04:41):
Wild scene for sure. So basically what had happened is
that Wendy was just released from the hospital after being evaluated.
Her niece, Alex Finney, comes to pick her up to
take her back to the living facility, but on their
way back, they go to dinner and apparently the living
facility decided that it wasn't approved.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
There was a conflicting reports.
Speaker 6 (05:04):
Alex says that they knew that they were going out
to dinner. The living facility allegedly said that this outing
was not approved and at some point threatened to call
the NYPD to file a kidnapping report.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Joining me, doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psycho Alice joining us
from the LA jurisdiction, author of deal Breaker. You can
see her now on peacock and you can find her
at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall, it's
my understanding that you agree with the judge who seemingly
(05:40):
continues to threaten Wendy Williams like she's a petulant child.
Speaker 7 (05:46):
Nancy.
Speaker 8 (05:47):
People in cognitive decline notoriously, do not realize what's happening
to them.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So let's hold that in.
Speaker 7 (05:52):
The back of our minds.
Speaker 8 (05:54):
Sokoloff is basing her decision on criteria, not personal opinion.
Wendy william probably had cognitive testing, neural psych testing, and
the testing showed that she was a danger to self
or others and that she had lacked EIGHTLS, meaning activities
of daily living. The judge is looking at that criteria.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Okay, question to you, yes, did you perform a test
on Wendy Williams. Did you, Bethany Marshall, perform a cognitive
test on Wendy Williams.
Speaker 8 (06:24):
I did not, But usually a baseline test is given
initially so that we get a baseline on the patients.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
So you're just speculating, are you not? I am speculating, yes, Okay,
So the fact that she has recently passed a cognitive
test does that mean anything to you? Are you just
almost sucking up to a judge that is talking down
to Wendy Williams like she's a five year old that
grabbed a handful of jellybeans.
Speaker 8 (06:52):
Hey, Nancy is the family who said says she's passed
away buying colors? What the family not? The not the
physician who admits to stirred the test?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Us the media? Have you ever heard of hippa? You
think the judges, you think that the docter's going to
go out on the steps of Mount Sinai, which I'm
very familiar with, had all my prenatal tests there, was
going to have the children there until I suddenly gave
birth in Atlanta. Mount Sinai. That's where she took the test.
And what do you expect her doctor to go out
(07:24):
and say, hey, she passed everybody, let me go out
to special guests joining us. Elizabeth mcinturf, attorney specializing in
guardianship issues, a partner at Selzer Gervich. Elizabeth Thank you
for being with us. What can you tell me about
this type of care facility where all the elevators are
(07:48):
locked and you have to have a chaperone to take
you down the elevator, and you go to lunch with
your niece and suddenly they accuse the niece of napping
reportedly and call police. What about it, Elizabeth?
Speaker 9 (08:04):
It sounds like very typical precautions that happen in a
memory care unit where a person who has cognitive decline
or cognitative abilities need to have a more structured environment
with more security measures, including, you know, preventing somebody from
eloping or wandering out.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I hear what you're saying in Elizabeth, and this is your specialty. However,
when if it were being told is true, and I
have no reason to think it's not true. If they
have to unlock the elevator and chaperone her down the
elevator to her niece, that is inconsistent within calling police
and threatening to file a kidnap allegation. That's a criminal
(08:44):
complaint against the niece. They had to let her down
to go meet the niece. So why are they doing
this just because Wendy Williams wants to have lunch, let's
learn a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Feels like you're screaming for help.
Speaker 6 (08:57):
Are you allowed to go out in the last thirty days?
Speaker 4 (09:01):
I went out twice.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
This sounds more like a prison than independence.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
I want my right back, I want my freedom back.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
That was our friend Harvey Levin at TMZ. They've got
a new documentary on TMZ Saving Wendy. You know, when
I listened to her speaking very coherently, I agree with Harvey.
I think this is wrong. And she is having to
launch a major legal battle what to go have lunch
(09:32):
for Pete's sake, and submitting herself not only to testing
at Mount Sinai, which according to her and others, she passed.
So why is she still going to be moved to
a restrictive condo? I mean, did you hear where she's
been at the care facility? No personal belongings or electronics.
(09:55):
She cannot receive calls, cannot leave her room without a
staff member unlocking the door. Visitors have to be pre approved.
In other words, they want to give the appearance they
want you to see before you get in to see
your loved one. And to top it all off, I
don't like the way this judge is talking down to
(10:19):
Wendy Williams and basically threatening her, saying things like and
I quote, I've always contended that Williams be given the
independence she can handle. I really judge it. When were
you a shrink? I question how well she has handled
the independence she has been given. Really, what did Wendy
do wrong? Have it played apasta? You don't like that, judge,
(10:42):
And she goes on to threaten Wendy, stating to the lawyer,
tell your client, if she wants a jury, she should
refrain from trying to poison the jury pool. Ret row.
Sounds like somebody's impinging on Wendy Williams freedom of speech.
Oh there's that pesky little Bill of rights judge Crime
(11:12):
Stories with Nancy Grace. Hey, judge, one word for you
r E c U S E. Recuse yourself now before
you're publicly thrown off the Wendy Williams case. Your comments
(11:33):
are totally uncalled for and inappropriate, and you're making quite
the record in Wendy's favor in this guardianship battle. In
the last days. The judge says to Wendy, quote, your
career is over. Well, I highly disagree with that. Who
does this judge think she's talking to? Listen?
Speaker 10 (11:56):
After a successful trial run of The Wendy Williams Show,
the talk show is broadcast internationally and Garner's two point
four million daily viewers. Williams trades off with Ellen DeGeneres
as the number one female daytime television host for years.
The daily show runs for twelve years straight, while Williams
starts her own reality TV production company with her manager
(12:19):
and husband, Kevin Hunter.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Oh did I just hear? Husband? Manager? Wait? Jessica Finn
Senior investigative reporter us son who got us awesome photos
of Wendy going to court? Jessica there at the courthouse
when this goes down? Husband? You mean the guy that
(12:43):
took all that money from the Wendy Williams Show. Him
the one that was having a year's long affair with
what was missus and then had a baby, living what
nine or ten miles away from Wendy. I think he
even had his name on her mailbox. That guy, That's
(13:04):
what we're talking about.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
Yeah, they are actually still fighting it out in divorce
court over money. He claims he's owed as partly as
executive producer for the Wendy Williams Show. There was a
stipulation in their divorce that he was going to get
basically a severance package from Wendy, and then once Wells
Once when he was put into this guardianship and the
(13:26):
bank took over her accounts, Wells Fargo shut down her accounts,
his payments stopped. So they're actually backfighting it in divorce court,
and Kevin's been in part not only trying to get
his severance payments to resume, He's also been really trying
to get access to Wendy's financial records, and in part,
(13:46):
I think what he hopes that's going to show is
what is happening with her money since she's been placed
in the guardianship.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
So while Kevin is all doing moment, didn't he Jessica
give up any rot to get all up in her
money when he cheated on her with that girl and
had the baby. And Wendy's the one making all the
money working. You know, I've been on her show several times.
That woman worked like a mule and was surrounded by
(14:16):
people parasites sucking all her money. Every time I went.
Everybody around her was just kicked back, lounging, having a
lot of time while she's out there working. Now, why
would he get access to her money.
Speaker 6 (14:31):
Well, he was the executive producer for the show, and
he did a lot of work behind the scenes. Right exactly,
absolutely was and so in their divorce.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Agreement ended all that when he started having sex with
a mistress.
Speaker 6 (14:44):
But in their divorce agreement he did. There was an
agreement for him to continue to get severance money from
Wendy's estate. And so while yes, absolutely I understand the
idea that because he did have a baby with another
woman in that they would you would think that they
would stop that this was part of.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Their divorce, Jessica, He did have a baby with him.
Here you say, Jessica fan, they went to walmartin brought
on a baby. That's not believe to Wendy getting all
that money and there he is sleeping with somebody else
and has a baby.
Speaker 6 (15:22):
A thousand percent that is exactly why they got divorced
because of the baby. That is a thousand percent what happened.
But they worked together, They worked together, so that is
that is why he I believe that's why it's in
their divorce agreement because they did work together, they built
the brand together.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
I believe Jessica Fan that you have gone so far
as to refer to her husband, the one that she
didn't have the baby with the massage therapist, as an
unsung hero.
Speaker 6 (15:47):
Yeah, this is not the public opinion that people would
think of. But quite frankly, Kevin really kept the wheels
on the track during Wendy's time on the show. He
was the one that made sure that she was up
and ready to tape and doing the right thing, despite
the fact that she was very much involved in alcoholism
at that point. And Wendy, from everything that we've learned,
(16:10):
knew about Sharena. She knew about the other woman for
many years before Kevin had a baby with Sharena, so
she looked the other way. So while everybody was blindsided
when Kevin had the baby, the public was blindsided when
Serina had the baby, and Wendy did file for divorce
based on that she had known for years that Kevin
(16:33):
had this woman on the side. And Kevin really again
did keep the wheels.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Going on the track.
Speaker 6 (16:40):
And once Kevin was out of the picture, it was
really hard for Wendy to keep the show going without
having that kind of firm hand and direction and keeping
her grounded, and that's essentially what happened in season thirteen.
Everything went to poop and she wasn't even able to film.
She wasn't able to attend the tape.
Speaker 7 (16:58):
Dang.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Well, let me be clear. The ex husband has not
been charged with any crime or any wrongdoing or any
taking of her money that was not part of a contract.
Let's just be very clear about that. I'm just very curious. Also,
with all these people that quote were working with her,
they didn't notice that she was getting sick or was she.
Speaker 11 (17:23):
In twenty seventeen, Williams passes out during a taping of
the show, and in the following years, phills months of
several seasons with a guest host due to struggles with
her health issues.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
I am not cognitively impaired, you know what I'm saying. No,
but I feel like I am in prison. I'm in
this place where the people are in their nineties and
their eighties. I have breakfast, lunch, and dinner right here
on the bed.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
All right, A wind Bilt.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
I talk on the phone.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
I said, you're cognitively impaired and you're incapacitated.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Do I see that way?
Speaker 12 (17:56):
No, you've been You've been calling her five times a
day for the two weeks.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
No, you don't see that.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
You are hearing Wendy on the phone at the breakfast
club speaking to Charle Manne the god okay, Bathidy, because
you are my lionears.
Speaker 8 (18:18):
Me, because I'm a professional. And just because she sounds
intact doesn't mean she is. I think she's a danger
to self and others when she goes out. I think
the reason Wendy is in lockdown is that she makes
poor choices when she goes out. Prefrontal temporal dementia is
(18:38):
a progressive disease, okay, so it means that at the
beginning the person can look intact even when they're having
cognitive decline. And the reason she's in an old folks
home is those are the places that have memory care facilities.
You start when you're at the beginning of dementia and
you graduate to the memory care unit, so it is
(18:59):
an appropriate place for her.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Wendy Williams had one of the highest rated daytime talk
shows there has ever been routinely thrashing the Ellen Show
and even the View. So out of the blue, this judge,
Judge Suckloff, starts berating Wendy and trashing her career, claiming, yeah,
(19:21):
you had a great career, but it's over. You'll never
have a career again. Quote it's done. What is wrong
with this woman? What expertise does she have in the
entertainment industry? And why would she trash Wendy this way? Well,
that said, let's look at the facts themselves too, Jessica
Finn joining me, Senior Investigative Report of US Son. What
(19:45):
exactly have been her diagnoses that we've been told anyway?
Speaker 6 (19:50):
Okay, so we know that she has We know that
she's been diagnosed with frontal temporal dimension. That diagnosis came
sometime in twenty twenty three. That was a diagnosis that
was released by her guardian basically in response to the
Lifetime documentary Where is Wendy Williams Now? Before that, at
the US Sun, we were able to confirm that in
(20:15):
twenty nineteen, Wendy Williams was diagnosed with alcohol related brain
damage and that diagnosis happened during a rehab stay in
Delray Beach, Florida in twenty nineteen, and that was a
diagnosis that was given to her along with her husband
at the time, Kevin Hunter, and her son Kevin Hunter Junior,
(20:36):
and the doctors warned her that if she continues to drink,
she will continue to lose her memory, she will continue
to lose her cognitive functioning. And as we know, Wendy
continued to drink despite the diagnosis. Now you know here
we are. We have this prontal temporal dementia diagnosis, which
(20:57):
is what Bruce Willis has a degenerative disease. But Wendy
seems very very fine these days, so it's very hard
to really believe that the frontal temporal dementia diagnosis is
actually correct and accurate.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
I've got so many questions right now. But doctor Kendall
Crowns joining me, renowned medical examiner joining us out of
Terran County. That's Fort Worth. Never a lack of business there,
A steamed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at
TCU has performed literally thousands of examinations. Doctor Kendall Crowns
(21:38):
got a question regarding the frontal temporal dementia and the
alcohol related brain damage all allegations. First of all, frontal
temporal dementia, do you get that from blows to the head.
I was just thinking about Bruce Willis and all the
stunts he performed.
Speaker 12 (21:57):
So you can get it from the chronic uh brain trauma.
But one of the main things is chronic alcoholism, which
is alcohol is a neurotoxic or it causes it's a
poison to your brain in long term do the same thing.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Hold on, I don't want to make samples and oranges. Look,
you're the noow medical examiner. I'm just a trial lawyer.
So can I address one and then address the other?
Or are they one and the same? The frontal temporal
dementia and the alcohol related brain damage is that? Are
they the same thing?
Speaker 12 (22:30):
Frontal temporal dimension and alcohol related brain damage can be well.
Frontal temporal dementia can be associated with chronic alcohol abuse
and the what you're talking You may.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Have gotten that frontal temporal dementia from alcohol abuse. It's
possible to get it. And that not just blows to
the head. Okay, so blows to the head.
Speaker 12 (22:51):
You have to remember what blows to the head. It's
a chronic like you take multiple times you're getting hit
in the head over a long period of time. In
something you get from just a couple bumps to the head.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Okay, we see it with Britney spears right, she got
out of her conservatorship, and what does she do. She
immediately strips down naked starts twirling around on Instagram. So
what okay? There she is? Keep that top on all right?
This is g rated Britney. That's on Britney's official Instagram page.
Sometimes she comes out dancing and all you can see
is like a little pasty flower over her nipples and
(23:25):
private parts. That's her business. If she wants to twirl
around naked on Insta instead of making millions and millions
of dollars doing the same thing on a Vegas stage,
that's her business. If Wendy Williams wants to go out
with her niece and have a excuse me, have a
glass of wine, nobody set a bottle of wine. Have
(23:45):
a glass of wine. That's her business. And then this
judge jumps up and says, i'm I have always contended
Williams will be given the independence she can handle. I
question and how well she has handled the independence she
has been given? Really? Is that your business that she
(24:07):
had a glass of wine with her niece. I don't
know doctor Kendall Crown's about these diagnoses, because it's hard
for me to believe that she has advanced dementia when
she carries on extensive conversations Sue Sponte, spontaneous, not rehearsed,
(24:31):
which you can try to read lines, But when you're
having like a fluid conversation like we're having right now,
you have to think with all cylinders. She conversed with
Harvey Levin that super smart. That's not easy to do.
She conversed with Charlemagne the God, also super smart. And
what I observed, what I observed with my own eyes,
(24:55):
is that whenever I was around Wendy, she was smarter
than anybody else in the room. And I don't like
thinking they've got their hands in her pocket. How do
I know she's got dementia, doctor.
Speaker 12 (25:05):
Crowns, Well, I mean you are just noticing one aspect
of her personality. She's able to carry on a conversation.
You don't know what else is going on in her
life that other people have noticed a cognitive decline. One
function of her brain may still be going on. Hey,
I'm not diagnosing her, and I have no problem with
her being released to her own recognissance, because you know,
(25:28):
my job is dependent on people doing dumb things and dying.
So I'm okay with whatever is occurring, but I'm just
giving you what's what.
Speaker 13 (25:36):
You're going with that Crowns he had those tests, she's
been gene she is not incapacity.
Speaker 12 (25:41):
For buying colors. I know.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
He's have independent results.
Speaker 13 (25:47):
I would be very disappointed and I would be very
concerned if the judge has an issue with those tests.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
That's for our friends at Fox five in New York,
and you're hearing Gina Montroso claiming that Wendy had the
test and she is not incapacitated. Williams shines in I
PASSI Flying Collars. Rosanna Scotto, our friend and New York
says I know, and the medical advocate Gina monterro So
(26:16):
goes on to say they are independent results. I would
be very disappointed and very concerned if the judge has
an issue with those tests. But of course the judge does.
Speaker 14 (26:31):
A source says while Judge Sonkoloff approved, the talk show
hosts moved to an unsecured floor, she was not convinced
that Williams tests at Lennox Hill proved that she is
not incapacitated. Sokoloff reportedly said the test only showed that
Williams was coherent, cognitive and alert. Williams will have to
(26:51):
undergo a full cognitive work up and neurological examination.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Jessica Fann, senior investigative reporter us Son who was camped
out at the courthouse to greet Wendy Williams. So the
judge is still not happy with what Lennox Heil said.
Speaker 6 (27:06):
Yeah, the judge basically said that this was not enough.
This cognitive test was just to make sure she was coherent.
The test included questions like who is the president, what
is your birthday, what's your full name? These were really
basic questions and it was a ten question test and
it didn't delve. According to the judge, it didn't delve
deep enough into Wendy's diagnoses to really give an accurate,
(27:29):
full picture of what Wendy is dealing with. In the
coming weeks, it sounds like the judge is going to
be having her do another more extensive, thorough psycholological evaluation
to determine exactly where Wendy's cognitive abilities are at this
point and see how that's going to change the guardianship,
because it's going to change the whole nature of the guardianship.
(27:50):
It could get her out of the guardianship. If she
does really well, she could end up in a less
restrictive situation. She could end up with a different guardian.
So this next test is really good to be the
big moment for Wendy and to see how our guardianship
is going to go moving forward.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Joining me now is Ashley Ward Law PI, probably investigator
chief operation officer at Nathan's Investigation and has extensive experience
investigating conservatorship issues. Ashley, thank you for being with us.
This is very concerning to me and I'll tell you why.
(28:27):
If Britney Spears and Wendy Williams have to fight tooth
and nail to get out from a conservatorship, what about
the rest of us regular people? How could we get
out of it? If we're wrongfully put in a draconian
or harsh conservatorship where you can't even get phone calls,
(28:50):
your room is locked, you have to throw notes out
for a stranger to find to help you get out.
Speaker 15 (28:56):
Yeah, Nanthy, things like this happened quite often where pis
get hired by families or other concerned individuals who want
us to investigate. You know, the well being of this
person that's being held in a case like this, For
Wendy in particular, I think a private investigator will need
to think outside the box because this is very complex.
Speaker 7 (29:19):
Okay, So we don't only do surveillance.
Speaker 15 (29:22):
We actually conduct undercover visits at these facilities to see,
you know, if she's being mistreated, if she's being denied,
you know, certain things. We also investigate or do surveillance
on her when she's going out to show that you know,
she's capable of making decisions and taking care of herself.
But you don't limit the surveillance to only one person.
(29:45):
You have to keep your mind open because it could
be other individuals who may have a.
Speaker 7 (29:49):
Hand in this. And you don't want to leave any
stones unturned.
Speaker 15 (29:53):
Okay, you might miss the golden ticket to actually save Wendy.
Speaker 7 (29:57):
So as a PI, you know, you look at the.
Speaker 15 (29:59):
Lifestyle people who are close near to her or who
might have a hand in.
Speaker 7 (30:05):
This whole ordeal. What was your lifestyle before.
Speaker 15 (30:08):
This happened, this whole ordeal, and what is your lifestyle now? Okay,
you also want to look into finances. Okay, were you
living a lavish lifestyle before this or are you living
a lavish lifestyle. Now, so the main concern a PI
would have is is she being treated fairly and also
(30:29):
investigating those individuals who might have a hand in this
whole ordeal.
Speaker 7 (30:34):
Is this something that's being orchestrated?
Speaker 15 (30:36):
What evidence can we get as a PI to help
save Wendy.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
You know what you just said, Ashley Wardlaw, It's very convincing.
You have to look at her lifestyle before her lifestyle.
Now you have to look at other people that are
injecting themselves into Wendy's situation. Do they have a dog
(31:01):
in the fights, get in the game? Does it benefit
them for her to stay in a lockdown or in
a controlled environment? Speaking of money, how her money is
being spent? This lockdown that the judge had her in
was costing nearly a quarter million dollars a year. I
(31:25):
don't blame Wendy. I'd want out of it too, Listen.
Speaker 5 (31:27):
I want to get out of Guardian.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
It's been over three years. You know what I'm saying,
It's time for my money and my life to get
back to status club.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
From our friends at ABC Crime Stories with Nancy Grace,
all around the world, the public is keenly interested in
(31:57):
Wendy Williams. For instance, in a two B documentary Saving Wendy,
there were huge viewership numbers. Outlets have reported on her
practically every day in her attempt to end her Drayconian guardianship.
At this juncture, it's reported that trial attorney Joe Takapina
(32:18):
may very well take the case to a jury if
the judge, in her wisdom, doesn't end it. Elizabeth mcint
her specialist a guardianship and conservatorship issues. So let me understand,
the judge is saying, if you want a jury trial,
(32:41):
don't speak to the press. So in her mind does
she think she could deny Wendy Williams a jury trial.
Isn't any comment to the press something you would ask
jurrors on vadier So she.
Speaker 9 (32:56):
Can't deny a jury trial if Wendy Williams has a
right to a jury trial.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
I think more what.
Speaker 9 (33:01):
She's doing is what the judiciary does in a lot
of situations, is which caution against public statements that can
kind of influence the outcome of a case. We're making
opinions right now based on what Miss Williams is stating
or saying, or what we're stating or saying, and the
Court of an acsence warning is if you want you know,
(33:22):
your neutral jury, we need to make sure that we're
not making an argument in.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Public Opinia, whoa, whoa, Elizabeth. That's not what she said.
She didn't say, if you want a neutral jury, don't
poison the jury pool. That's not what she said. She said,
If you want a jury trial, tell your client not
to speak to the press, if you want a jury trial.
As if the judge could take away Wendy Williams right
(33:49):
to a jury trial.
Speaker 9 (33:50):
If she has a right to a jury trial, she
has a right to a jury trial.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Correct, exactly. And let's just take a look at the
biography of Judge Lee set sockle Off. She was primarily
a personal injury litigator. You know, some not me, of course,
but some would call that an ambulance chaser, you know,
personal injury slip and fall, personal injury car crash. She
(34:18):
also practiced in family law, divorce, custody of children, splitting
up assets. For more than one third of her career.
She was an appellate lawyer. Translation, she sat in a
cubicle and researched. That's what that means. A pellet lawyer. Interesting.
(34:47):
And now she tells Wendy Williams, hey, hey girl, if
you want a jury trial, you better not speak to
the media. If she feels that way, she could issue
a gag order once legal proceed have started. But this
sounds very much like a threat. And then to state, Elizabeth,
(35:07):
I have always contended Williams will will be given independence
she can handle. I question how well she has handled
the independence she has been given. I'm curious, Elizabeth, what
has Wendy Williams done to deserve that comment from the judge?
(35:29):
I question how well she's handled the independence she has
been given. What did she do wrong? Why would they
just say that to her?
Speaker 9 (35:37):
The court is concerned with the actions that Wendy Williams
is taking right now, including the fact that she may
have had a boozy lunch, that she is potentially trying
to win a.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Court of public.
Speaker 9 (35:51):
Opinion instead of caring about her own health.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Right now, Elizabeth, come on place, court of public opinion.
I could put a parrot up there in a cage
to just parent court of public opinion. Court of public opinion?
So what there are every celebrity courts the press, and
they don't get a threat by the judge.
Speaker 9 (36:14):
Celebrities do court the press, but this is a different
situation than your normal celebrity. We're in a situation right
now where we have a guardianship where we have concerns
about miss Williams and her health, with her mental health,
with how she's been treated in the past and currently,
and so the court is going to have that overwriting
concern and they want to make sure that she's protected.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
You got me over the barrel, Elizabeth mcinturf about the alcohol,
but I hardly think that a glass of wine with
her niece constitutes the judge stating, I don't know how
well you've handled your freedom. Isn't the jury the sole
(36:55):
decider of the facts. Isn't it their province alone, not
the judge, to establish and analyze the facts.
Speaker 9 (37:06):
It'll always come down to the trier of facts to
determine whether or not, you know, this old guardianship is
appropriate or not, and that is one of the things
that they will take into account.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Wendy Williams, This by far is not the first time
a celebrity has fought to be free from a draconian conservatorship.
Britney Spears, for instance, what's the Biggas. I'm thinking a
lot about her residency in Vegas. Did she want that? No?
Speaker 14 (37:41):
No, they worked her.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
I was a machine. I was a machine, not even human.
They literally killed me.
Speaker 16 (37:51):
They basically worked her. She did rehearsals, she did the
whole thing, but she could not get them assighed.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
She cannot go to a restaurant. Talk about isolation. That's
where my friends at Fox Nation. When I was taping Trapped,
I was speaking to le Ane Spears, a close relative
of Britney Spears. You know. Let me ask doctor Kindall
Crowns and doctor Bethany Marshall about hysteria. Hysteria female hysteria
(38:27):
actually a diagnosis in the nineteenth century for a behavior
or symptom that made men usually uncomfortable. It could be depression, infertility,
a fondness for writing. According to historical documents, I'm very
(38:49):
curious how much Wendy is being penalized because she's not behaving.
You ever heard of that diagnosis, doctor Kendall Crown. It
led to a lot of mistreatment by women, A lot
of mistreatment of women, for instance, putting them in asylums,
subjecting them to all sorts of experiments and treatments.
Speaker 12 (39:13):
Well, yeah, I mean it's part of medical history is
the diagnosis of hysteria with women. In fact, the surgery
of a hysterectomy was believed that if they remove the
uterus that the woman's issue would go away. So it's
called a hysterectomy because of hysteria, hysterectomy, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
So that is something no offense Crown's but I think
to alleviate the problem, it shouldn't be the uterus to
be removed. It should probably be the husband. Doctor Bethany Marshall,
can you jump in on that female hysteria, because I
believe Wendy is being judged because she's a woman and
(39:55):
she has an orthodox behavior.
Speaker 8 (39:57):
You know, a hysteria is like a a transient emotional
state that goes away. It's not a sign of anything deeper.
And there can also be something called pseudo dementia where
a person appears to have dementia on the surface but
they don't really have it. I think the thing about
Britney Spears Nancy is that the problem is they placed
her in a conservatorship with her father. Families are notoriously
(40:22):
money hungry when they have a star in their midst
and in this case, what the judge is doing is
removing her from the family and putting her with a
neutral party who has no skin in the game. This
person is not going to profit financially off of Wendy Williams.
I think the elephant in the room, Nancy, I really do,
(40:42):
is the sign getting paid, Yes, but not millions of dollars.
She can't do to Wendy Williams what Britney Spears father did.
That is the big difference. And Nancy, the judge is
getting it right in one respect for sure, and that
is she's sending Wendy Williams back for further time testing.
In that case, she will see the progression of the disease,
(41:04):
which will then be compared against the baseline.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Well, doctor Bethany Marshall, you got me over the barrel
with her drinking. If in fact she has alcohol related
brain damage. This judge socle Off has some sort of
problem with Wendy Williams, and she really recused herself from
the case. She does not appear impartial and even if
(41:29):
she can control herself on the bench now, it's very
apparent she has ill feelings toward Wendy Williams. I wouldn't
want her on my case.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
We wait as justice unfolds. Free Wendy Williams, Goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Well, the judge in the Wendy Williams case has done
it again, spouting off with completely inappropriate and uncalled for
remarks aimed at Wendy Williams, the TV superstar.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us. In the last days. Things get even
more weird and even more intense. In the Guardianship Battle
TV star Wendy Williams is waging in court. According to sources,
the judge says to Wendy, quote, your career is says
(00:49):
to Wendy, your career is over. You have no hope
of restarting your career. Why would this judge, Judge Lisa
Sokoloff say that. This is after Wendy shows up in
court and appears. The judge went on to rail on
Wendy's niece Alex Finney, accusing her of leaking information and
(01:11):
threatening her with sanctions. Okay, wait a minute, what's wrong
with reporting what happened in court? What is wrong with
this judge? Okay, let's start at the beginning. Let's start
with Wendy Williams.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Wendy Williams celebrates a victory in her controversial guardianship battle
as a judge reportedly allows the ex talk show host
queen to move from a senior living.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Facility living facility. My roar in it is more like
a prison, Wendy had stated over and over. She's surrounded
by seventy, eighty and ninety year olds. No offense. But
that is not Wendy Williams' style. And I don't like
the way this judge is talking down to Wendy Williams.
(01:55):
Uh uh n oh, you know, a little power is
a dangerous thing, judge, listen to this.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Photographers frequently crowd below Wendy Williams window at Koderie Hudson Yards,
where the sixty year old resides in the memory care unit.
One such photographer watches as Williams throws the scrap of
paper from her window, scribbled on the note help Wendy.
The paparazzi calls for a welfare check, and hours later
NYPD officers escort Williams out of the facility into a
(02:25):
waiting ambulance.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
Where I lived at this memory unit on this floor.
You know, I just needed a breath of fresh air,
you know, And I'm saying I needed to see the doctors.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
So that's why I went to the hospital.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
That's from our friends at ABC. I am on Wendy's
side here. Why is it she's got a guardian watching
out for her that she has to send up a note,
throw it out her window and the paparazzi get it
and they get her out with police escort. That doesn't
(03:02):
sound right to me? Does it sound right to you
that she has to throw a help me note out
a window? Where's a conservator? Why has Wendy been in
lockdown for all this time? Listen?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Wendy Williams says she feels like she's in prison as
she continues her fight to end her court appoint a
guardianship as if almost on cue. Williams may have proved
her point when the assisted living facility where she resides
on the fifth floor, Coterie, calls police, claiming the sixty
year old TV host has been kidnapped by her niece,
Alex Finnie. The report Coterie filed with the NYPD, claims
(03:37):
Finny evaded staff by taking her aunt Wendy out of
the building to eat an Italian restaurant.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Uh uh huh ann oh, joining me in an All Star panel.
First to Jessica Fann joining me, senior investigative reporter at
the US SUN who was at the courthouse as Wendy
is battling for her freedom and got some incredible exclusive shots.
(04:03):
Wendy is walking, she's talking, she's smiling, She's flanked by friends, relatives.
I don't like this one bit. That the niece of
Wendy goes and takes her out to a simple lunch
(04:24):
and then the assisted care facility I a lockdown, actually
calls the police with a kidnapped claim on the niece.
Are you serious? It was a.
Speaker 6 (04:41):
Wild scene for sure. So basically what had happened is
that Wendy was just released from the hospital after being evaluated.
Her niece, Alex Finney, comes to pick her up to
take her back to the living facility, but on their
way back, they go to dinner and apparently the living
facility decided that it wasn't approved.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
There was a conflicting reports.
Speaker 6 (05:04):
Alex says that they knew that they were going out
to dinner. The living facility allegedly said that this outing
was not approved and at some point threatened to call
the NYPD to file a kidnapping report.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Joining me, doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psycho Alice joining us
from the LA jurisdiction, author of deal Breaker. You can
see her now on peacock and you can find her
at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall, it's
my understanding that you agree with the judge who seemingly
(05:40):
continues to threaten Wendy Williams like she's a petulant child.
Speaker 7 (05:46):
Nancy.
Speaker 8 (05:47):
People in cognitive decline notoriously, do not realize what's happening
to them.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So let's hold that in.
Speaker 7 (05:52):
The back of our minds.
Speaker 8 (05:54):
Sokoloff is basing her decision on criteria, not personal opinion.
Wendy william probably had cognitive testing, neural psych testing, and
the testing showed that she was a danger to self
or others and that she had lacked EIGHTLS, meaning activities
of daily living. The judge is looking at that criteria.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Okay, question to you, yes, did you perform a test
on Wendy Williams. Did you, Bethany Marshall, perform a cognitive
test on Wendy Williams.
Speaker 8 (06:24):
I did not, But usually a baseline test is given
initially so that we get a baseline on the patients.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
So you're just speculating, are you not? I am speculating, yes, Okay,
So the fact that she has recently passed a cognitive
test does that mean anything to you? Are you just
almost sucking up to a judge that is talking down
to Wendy Williams like she's a five year old that
grabbed a handful of jellybeans.
Speaker 8 (06:52):
Hey, Nancy is the family who said says she's passed
away buying colors? What the family not? The not the
physician who admits to stirred the test?
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Us the media? Have you ever heard of hippa? You
think the judges, you think that the docter's going to
go out on the steps of Mount Sinai, which I'm
very familiar with, had all my prenatal tests there, was
going to have the children there until I suddenly gave
birth in Atlanta. Mount Sinai. That's where she took the test.
And what do you expect her doctor to go out
(07:24):
and say, hey, she passed everybody, let me go out
to special guests joining us. Elizabeth mcinturf, attorney specializing in
guardianship issues, a partner at Selzer Gervich. Elizabeth Thank you
for being with us. What can you tell me about
this type of care facility where all the elevators are
(07:48):
locked and you have to have a chaperone to take
you down the elevator, and you go to lunch with
your niece and suddenly they accuse the niece of napping
reportedly and call police. What about it, Elizabeth?
Speaker 9 (08:04):
It sounds like very typical precautions that happen in a
memory care unit where a person who has cognitive decline
or cognitative abilities need to have a more structured environment
with more security measures, including, you know, preventing somebody from
eloping or wandering out.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I hear what you're saying in Elizabeth, and this is your specialty. However,
when if it were being told is true, and I
have no reason to think it's not true. If they
have to unlock the elevator and chaperone her down the
elevator to her niece, that is inconsistent within calling police
and threatening to file a kidnap allegation. That's a criminal
(08:44):
complaint against the niece. They had to let her down
to go meet the niece. So why are they doing
this just because Wendy Williams wants to have lunch, let's
learn a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Feels like you're screaming for help.
Speaker 6 (08:57):
Are you allowed to go out in the last thirty days?
Speaker 4 (09:01):
I went out twice.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
This sounds more like a prison than independence.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
I want my right back, I want my freedom back.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
That was our friend Harvey Levin at TMZ. They've got
a new documentary on TMZ Saving Wendy. You know, when
I listened to her speaking very coherently, I agree with Harvey.
I think this is wrong. And she is having to
launch a major legal battle what to go have lunch
(09:32):
for Pete's sake, and submitting herself not only to testing
at Mount Sinai, which according to her and others, she passed.
So why is she still going to be moved to
a restrictive condo? I mean, did you hear where she's
been at the care facility? No personal belongings or electronics.
(09:55):
She cannot receive calls, cannot leave her room without a
staff member unlocking the door. Visitors have to be pre approved.
In other words, they want to give the appearance they
want you to see before you get in to see
your loved one. And to top it all off, I
don't like the way this judge is talking down to
(10:19):
Wendy Williams and basically threatening her, saying things like and
I quote, I've always contended that Williams be given the
independence she can handle. I really judge it. When were
you a shrink? I question how well she has handled
the independence she has been given. Really, what did Wendy
do wrong? Have it played apasta? You don't like that, judge,
(10:42):
And she goes on to threaten Wendy, stating to the lawyer,
tell your client, if she wants a jury, she should
refrain from trying to poison the jury pool. Ret row.
Sounds like somebody's impinging on Wendy Williams freedom of speech.
Oh there's that pesky little Bill of rights judge Crime
(11:12):
Stories with Nancy Grace. Hey, judge, one word for you
r E c U S E. Recuse yourself now before
you're publicly thrown off the Wendy Williams case. Your comments
(11:33):
are totally uncalled for and inappropriate, and you're making quite
the record in Wendy's favor in this guardianship battle. In
the last days. The judge says to Wendy, quote, your
career is over. Well, I highly disagree with that. Who
does this judge think she's talking to? Listen?
Speaker 10 (11:56):
After a successful trial run of The Wendy Williams Show,
the talk show is broadcast internationally and Garner's two point
four million daily viewers. Williams trades off with Ellen DeGeneres
as the number one female daytime television host for years.
The daily show runs for twelve years straight, while Williams
starts her own reality TV production company with her manager
(12:19):
and husband, Kevin Hunter.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Oh did I just hear? Husband? Manager? Wait? Jessica Finn
Senior investigative reporter us son who got us awesome photos
of Wendy going to court? Jessica there at the courthouse
when this goes down? Husband? You mean the guy that
(12:43):
took all that money from the Wendy Williams Show. Him
the one that was having a year's long affair with
what was missus and then had a baby, living what
nine or ten miles away from Wendy. I think he
even had his name on her mailbox. That guy, That's
(13:04):
what we're talking about.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
Yeah, they are actually still fighting it out in divorce
court over money. He claims he's owed as partly as
executive producer for the Wendy Williams Show. There was a
stipulation in their divorce that he was going to get
basically a severance package from Wendy, and then once Wells
Once when he was put into this guardianship and the
(13:26):
bank took over her accounts, Wells Fargo shut down her accounts,
his payments stopped. So they're actually backfighting it in divorce court,
and Kevin's been in part not only trying to get
his severance payments to resume, He's also been really trying
to get access to Wendy's financial records, and in part,
(13:46):
I think what he hopes that's going to show is
what is happening with her money since she's been placed
in the guardianship.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
So while Kevin is all doing moment, didn't he Jessica
give up any rot to get all up in her
money when he cheated on her with that girl and
had the baby. And Wendy's the one making all the
money working. You know, I've been on her show several times.
That woman worked like a mule and was surrounded by
(14:16):
people parasites sucking all her money. Every time I went.
Everybody around her was just kicked back, lounging, having a
lot of time while she's out there working. Now, why
would he get access to her money.
Speaker 6 (14:31):
Well, he was the executive producer for the show, and
he did a lot of work behind the scenes. Right exactly,
absolutely was and so in their divorce.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Agreement ended all that when he started having sex with
a mistress.
Speaker 6 (14:44):
But in their divorce agreement he did. There was an
agreement for him to continue to get severance money from
Wendy's estate. And so while yes, absolutely I understand the
idea that because he did have a baby with another
woman in that they would you would think that they
would stop that this was part of.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Their divorce, Jessica, He did have a baby with him.
Here you say, Jessica fan, they went to walmartin brought
on a baby. That's not believe to Wendy getting all
that money and there he is sleeping with somebody else
and has a baby.
Speaker 6 (15:22):
A thousand percent that is exactly why they got divorced
because of the baby. That is a thousand percent what happened.
But they worked together, They worked together, so that is
that is why he I believe that's why it's in
their divorce agreement because they did work together, they built
the brand together.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
I believe Jessica Fan that you have gone so far
as to refer to her husband, the one that she
didn't have the baby with the massage therapist, as an
unsung hero.
Speaker 6 (15:47):
Yeah, this is not the public opinion that people would
think of. But quite frankly, Kevin really kept the wheels
on the track during Wendy's time on the show. He
was the one that made sure that she was up
and ready to tape and doing the right thing, despite
the fact that she was very much involved in alcoholism
at that point. And Wendy, from everything that we've learned,
(16:10):
knew about Sharena. She knew about the other woman for
many years before Kevin had a baby with Sharena, so
she looked the other way. So while everybody was blindsided
when Kevin had the baby, the public was blindsided when
Serina had the baby, and Wendy did file for divorce
based on that she had known for years that Kevin
(16:33):
had this woman on the side. And Kevin really again
did keep the wheels.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Going on the track.
Speaker 6 (16:40):
And once Kevin was out of the picture, it was
really hard for Wendy to keep the show going without
having that kind of firm hand and direction and keeping
her grounded, and that's essentially what happened in season thirteen.
Everything went to poop and she wasn't even able to film.
She wasn't able to attend the tape.
Speaker 7 (16:58):
Dang.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Well, let me be clear. The ex husband has not
been charged with any crime or any wrongdoing or any
taking of her money that was not part of a contract.
Let's just be very clear about that. I'm just very curious. Also,
with all these people that quote were working with her,
they didn't notice that she was getting sick or was she.
Speaker 11 (17:23):
In twenty seventeen, Williams passes out during a taping of
the show, and in the following years, phills months of
several seasons with a guest host due to struggles with
her health issues.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
I am not cognitively impaired, you know what I'm saying. No,
but I feel like I am in prison. I'm in
this place where the people are in their nineties and
their eighties. I have breakfast, lunch, and dinner right here
on the bed.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
All right, A wind Bilt.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
I talk on the phone.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
I said, you're cognitively impaired and you're incapacitated.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Do I see that way?
Speaker 12 (17:56):
No, you've been You've been calling her five times a
day for the two weeks.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
No, you don't see that.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
You are hearing Wendy on the phone at the breakfast
club speaking to Charle Manne the god okay, Bathidy, because
you are my lionears.
Speaker 8 (18:18):
Me, because I'm a professional. And just because she sounds
intact doesn't mean she is. I think she's a danger
to self and others when she goes out. I think
the reason Wendy is in lockdown is that she makes
poor choices when she goes out. Prefrontal temporal dementia is
(18:38):
a progressive disease, okay, so it means that at the
beginning the person can look intact even when they're having
cognitive decline. And the reason she's in an old folks
home is those are the places that have memory care facilities.
You start when you're at the beginning of dementia and
you graduate to the memory care unit, so it is
(18:59):
an appropriate place for her.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Wendy Williams had one of the highest rated daytime talk
shows there has ever been routinely thrashing the Ellen Show
and even the View. So out of the blue, this judge,
Judge Suckloff, starts berating Wendy and trashing her career, claiming, yeah,
(19:21):
you had a great career, but it's over. You'll never
have a career again. Quote it's done. What is wrong
with this woman? What expertise does she have in the
entertainment industry? And why would she trash Wendy this way? Well,
that said, let's look at the facts themselves too, Jessica
Finn joining me, Senior Investigative Report of US Son. What
(19:45):
exactly have been her diagnoses that we've been told anyway?
Speaker 6 (19:50):
Okay, so we know that she has We know that
she's been diagnosed with frontal temporal dimension. That diagnosis came
sometime in twenty twenty three. That was a diagnosis that
was released by her guardian basically in response to the
Lifetime documentary Where is Wendy Williams Now? Before that, at
the US Sun, we were able to confirm that in
(20:15):
twenty nineteen, Wendy Williams was diagnosed with alcohol related brain
damage and that diagnosis happened during a rehab stay in
Delray Beach, Florida in twenty nineteen, and that was a
diagnosis that was given to her along with her husband
at the time, Kevin Hunter, and her son Kevin Hunter Junior,
(20:36):
and the doctors warned her that if she continues to drink,
she will continue to lose her memory, she will continue
to lose her cognitive functioning. And as we know, Wendy
continued to drink despite the diagnosis. Now you know here
we are. We have this prontal temporal dementia diagnosis, which
(20:57):
is what Bruce Willis has a degenerative disease. But Wendy
seems very very fine these days, so it's very hard
to really believe that the frontal temporal dementia diagnosis is
actually correct and accurate.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
I've got so many questions right now. But doctor Kendall
Crowns joining me, renowned medical examiner joining us out of
Terran County. That's Fort Worth. Never a lack of business there,
A steamed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at
TCU has performed literally thousands of examinations. Doctor Kendall Crowns
(21:38):
got a question regarding the frontal temporal dementia and the
alcohol related brain damage all allegations. First of all, frontal
temporal dementia, do you get that from blows to the head.
I was just thinking about Bruce Willis and all the
stunts he performed.
Speaker 12 (21:57):
So you can get it from the chronic uh brain trauma.
But one of the main things is chronic alcoholism, which
is alcohol is a neurotoxic or it causes it's a
poison to your brain in long term do the same thing.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Hold on, I don't want to make samples and oranges. Look,
you're the noow medical examiner. I'm just a trial lawyer.
So can I address one and then address the other?
Or are they one and the same? The frontal temporal
dementia and the alcohol related brain damage is that? Are
they the same thing?
Speaker 12 (22:30):
Frontal temporal dimension and alcohol related brain damage can be well.
Frontal temporal dementia can be associated with chronic alcohol abuse
and the what you're talking You may.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Have gotten that frontal temporal dementia from alcohol abuse. It's
possible to get it. And that not just blows to
the head. Okay, so blows to the head.
Speaker 12 (22:51):
You have to remember what blows to the head. It's
a chronic like you take multiple times you're getting hit
in the head over a long period of time. In
something you get from just a couple bumps to the head.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Okay, we see it with Britney spears right, she got
out of her conservatorship, and what does she do. She
immediately strips down naked starts twirling around on Instagram. So
what okay? There she is? Keep that top on all right?
This is g rated Britney. That's on Britney's official Instagram page.
Sometimes she comes out dancing and all you can see
is like a little pasty flower over her nipples and
(23:25):
private parts. That's her business. If she wants to twirl
around naked on Insta instead of making millions and millions
of dollars doing the same thing on a Vegas stage,
that's her business. If Wendy Williams wants to go out
with her niece and have a excuse me, have a
glass of wine, nobody set a bottle of wine. Have
(23:45):
a glass of wine. That's her business. And then this
judge jumps up and says, i'm I have always contended
Williams will be given the independence she can handle. I
question and how well she has handled the independence she
has been given? Really? Is that your business that she
(24:07):
had a glass of wine with her niece. I don't
know doctor Kendall Crown's about these diagnoses, because it's hard
for me to believe that she has advanced dementia when
she carries on extensive conversations Sue Sponte, spontaneous, not rehearsed,
(24:31):
which you can try to read lines, But when you're
having like a fluid conversation like we're having right now,
you have to think with all cylinders. She conversed with
Harvey Levin that super smart. That's not easy to do.
She conversed with Charlemagne the God, also super smart. And
what I observed, what I observed with my own eyes,
(24:55):
is that whenever I was around Wendy, she was smarter
than anybody else in the room. And I don't like
thinking they've got their hands in her pocket. How do
I know she's got dementia, doctor.
Speaker 12 (25:05):
Crowns, Well, I mean you are just noticing one aspect
of her personality. She's able to carry on a conversation.
You don't know what else is going on in her
life that other people have noticed a cognitive decline. One
function of her brain may still be going on. Hey,
I'm not diagnosing her, and I have no problem with
her being released to her own recognissance, because you know,
(25:28):
my job is dependent on people doing dumb things and dying.
So I'm okay with whatever is occurring, but I'm just
giving you what's what.
Speaker 13 (25:36):
You're going with that Crowns he had those tests, she's
been gene she is not incapacity.
Speaker 12 (25:41):
For buying colors. I know.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
He's have independent results.
Speaker 13 (25:47):
I would be very disappointed and I would be very
concerned if the judge has an issue with those tests.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
That's for our friends at Fox five in New York,
and you're hearing Gina Montroso claiming that Wendy had the
test and she is not incapacitated. Williams shines in I
PASSI Flying Collars. Rosanna Scotto, our friend and New York
says I know, and the medical advocate Gina monterro So
(26:16):
goes on to say they are independent results. I would
be very disappointed and very concerned if the judge has
an issue with those tests. But of course the judge does.
Speaker 14 (26:31):
A source says while Judge Sonkoloff approved, the talk show
hosts moved to an unsecured floor, she was not convinced
that Williams tests at Lennox Hill proved that she is
not incapacitated. Sokoloff reportedly said the test only showed that
Williams was coherent, cognitive and alert. Williams will have to
(26:51):
undergo a full cognitive work up and neurological examination.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Jessica Fann, senior investigative reporter us Son who was camped
out at the courthouse to greet Wendy Williams. So the
judge is still not happy with what Lennox Heil said.
Speaker 6 (27:06):
Yeah, the judge basically said that this was not enough.
This cognitive test was just to make sure she was coherent.
The test included questions like who is the president, what
is your birthday, what's your full name? These were really
basic questions and it was a ten question test and
it didn't delve. According to the judge, it didn't delve
deep enough into Wendy's diagnoses to really give an accurate,
(27:29):
full picture of what Wendy is dealing with. In the
coming weeks, it sounds like the judge is going to
be having her do another more extensive, thorough psycholological evaluation
to determine exactly where Wendy's cognitive abilities are at this
point and see how that's going to change the guardianship,
because it's going to change the whole nature of the guardianship.
(27:50):
It could get her out of the guardianship. If she
does really well, she could end up in a less
restrictive situation. She could end up with a different guardian.
So this next test is really good to be the
big moment for Wendy and to see how our guardianship
is going to go moving forward.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Joining me now is Ashley Ward Law PI, probably investigator
chief operation officer at Nathan's Investigation and has extensive experience
investigating conservatorship issues. Ashley, thank you for being with us.
This is very concerning to me and I'll tell you why.
(28:27):
If Britney Spears and Wendy Williams have to fight tooth
and nail to get out from a conservatorship, what about
the rest of us regular people? How could we get
out of it? If we're wrongfully put in a draconian
or harsh conservatorship where you can't even get phone calls,
(28:50):
your room is locked, you have to throw notes out
for a stranger to find to help you get out.
Speaker 15 (28:56):
Yeah, Nanthy, things like this happened quite often where pis
get hired by families or other concerned individuals who want
us to investigate. You know, the well being of this
person that's being held in a case like this, For
Wendy in particular, I think a private investigator will need
to think outside the box because this is very complex.
Speaker 7 (29:19):
Okay, So we don't only do surveillance.
Speaker 15 (29:22):
We actually conduct undercover visits at these facilities to see,
you know, if she's being mistreated, if she's being denied,
you know, certain things. We also investigate or do surveillance
on her when she's going out to show that you know,
she's capable of making decisions and taking care of herself.
But you don't limit the surveillance to only one person.
(29:45):
You have to keep your mind open because it could
be other individuals who may have a.
Speaker 7 (29:49):
Hand in this. And you don't want to leave any
stones unturned.
Speaker 15 (29:53):
Okay, you might miss the golden ticket to actually save Wendy.
Speaker 7 (29:57):
So as a PI, you know, you look at the.
Speaker 15 (29:59):
Lifestyle people who are close near to her or who
might have a hand in.
Speaker 7 (30:05):
This whole ordeal. What was your lifestyle before.
Speaker 15 (30:08):
This happened, this whole ordeal, and what is your lifestyle now? Okay,
you also want to look into finances. Okay, were you
living a lavish lifestyle before this or are you living
a lavish lifestyle. Now, so the main concern a PI
would have is is she being treated fairly and also
(30:29):
investigating those individuals who might have a hand in this
whole ordeal.
Speaker 7 (30:34):
Is this something that's being orchestrated?
Speaker 15 (30:36):
What evidence can we get as a PI to help
save Wendy.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
You know what you just said, Ashley Wardlaw, It's very convincing.
You have to look at her lifestyle before her lifestyle.
Now you have to look at other people that are
injecting themselves into Wendy's situation. Do they have a dog
(31:01):
in the fights, get in the game? Does it benefit
them for her to stay in a lockdown or in
a controlled environment? Speaking of money, how her money is
being spent? This lockdown that the judge had her in
was costing nearly a quarter million dollars a year. I
(31:25):
don't blame Wendy. I'd want out of it too, Listen.
Speaker 5 (31:27):
I want to get out of Guardian.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
It's been over three years. You know what I'm saying,
It's time for my money and my life to get
back to status club.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
From our friends at ABC Crime Stories with Nancy Grace,
all around the world, the public is keenly interested in
(31:57):
Wendy Williams. For instance, in a two B documentary Saving Wendy,
there were huge viewership numbers. Outlets have reported on her
practically every day in her attempt to end her Drayconian guardianship.
At this juncture, it's reported that trial attorney Joe Takapina
(32:18):
may very well take the case to a jury if
the judge, in her wisdom, doesn't end it. Elizabeth mcint
her specialist a guardianship and conservatorship issues. So let me understand,
the judge is saying, if you want a jury trial,
(32:41):
don't speak to the press. So in her mind does
she think she could deny Wendy Williams a jury trial.
Isn't any comment to the press something you would ask
jurrors on vadier So she.
Speaker 9 (32:56):
Can't deny a jury trial if Wendy Williams has a
right to a jury trial.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
I think more what.
Speaker 9 (33:01):
She's doing is what the judiciary does in a lot
of situations, is which caution against public statements that can
kind of influence the outcome of a case. We're making
opinions right now based on what Miss Williams is stating
or saying, or what we're stating or saying, and the
Court of an acsence warning is if you want you know,
(33:22):
your neutral jury, we need to make sure that we're
not making an argument in.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Public Opinia, whoa, whoa, Elizabeth. That's not what she said.
She didn't say, if you want a neutral jury, don't
poison the jury pool. That's not what she said. She said,
If you want a jury trial, tell your client not
to speak to the press, if you want a jury trial.
As if the judge could take away Wendy Williams right
(33:49):
to a jury trial.
Speaker 9 (33:50):
If she has a right to a jury trial, she
has a right to a jury trial.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Correct, exactly. And let's just take a look at the
biography of Judge Lee set sockle Off. She was primarily
a personal injury litigator. You know, some not me, of course,
but some would call that an ambulance chaser, you know,
personal injury slip and fall, personal injury car crash. She
(34:18):
also practiced in family law, divorce, custody of children, splitting
up assets. For more than one third of her career.
She was an appellate lawyer. Translation, she sat in a
cubicle and researched. That's what that means. A pellet lawyer. Interesting.
(34:47):
And now she tells Wendy Williams, hey, hey girl, if
you want a jury trial, you better not speak to
the media. If she feels that way, she could issue
a gag order once legal proceed have started. But this
sounds very much like a threat. And then to state, Elizabeth,
(35:07):
I have always contended Williams will will be given independence
she can handle. I question how well she has handled
the independence she has been given. I'm curious, Elizabeth, what
has Wendy Williams done to deserve that comment from the judge?
(35:29):
I question how well she's handled the independence she has
been given. What did she do wrong? Why would they
just say that to her?
Speaker 9 (35:37):
The court is concerned with the actions that Wendy Williams
is taking right now, including the fact that she may
have had a boozy lunch, that she is potentially trying
to win a.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Court of public.
Speaker 9 (35:51):
Opinion instead of caring about her own health.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Right now, Elizabeth, come on place, court of public opinion.
I could put a parrot up there in a cage
to just parent court of public opinion. Court of public opinion?
So what there are every celebrity courts the press, and
they don't get a threat by the judge.
Speaker 9 (36:14):
Celebrities do court the press, but this is a different
situation than your normal celebrity. We're in a situation right
now where we have a guardianship where we have concerns
about miss Williams and her health, with her mental health,
with how she's been treated in the past and currently,
and so the court is going to have that overwriting
concern and they want to make sure that she's protected.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
You got me over the barrel, Elizabeth mcinturf about the alcohol,
but I hardly think that a glass of wine with
her niece constitutes the judge stating, I don't know how
well you've handled your freedom. Isn't the jury the sole
(36:55):
decider of the facts. Isn't it their province alone, not
the judge, to establish and analyze the facts.
Speaker 9 (37:06):
It'll always come down to the trier of facts to
determine whether or not, you know, this old guardianship is
appropriate or not, and that is one of the things
that they will take into account.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Wendy Williams, This by far is not the first time
a celebrity has fought to be free from a draconian conservatorship.
Britney Spears, for instance, what's the Biggas. I'm thinking a
lot about her residency in Vegas. Did she want that? No?
Speaker 14 (37:41):
No, they worked her.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
I was a machine. I was a machine, not even human.
They literally killed me.
Speaker 16 (37:51):
They basically worked her. She did rehearsals, she did the
whole thing, but she could not get them assighed.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
She cannot go to a restaurant. Talk about isolation. That's
where my friends at Fox Nation. When I was taping Trapped,
I was speaking to le Ane Spears, a close relative
of Britney Spears. You know. Let me ask doctor Kindall
Crowns and doctor Bethany Marshall about hysteria. Hysteria female hysteria
(38:27):
actually a diagnosis in the nineteenth century for a behavior
or symptom that made men usually uncomfortable. It could be depression, infertility,
a fondness for writing. According to historical documents, I'm very
(38:49):
curious how much Wendy is being penalized because she's not behaving.
You ever heard of that diagnosis, doctor Kendall Crown. It
led to a lot of mistreatment by women, A lot
of mistreatment of women, for instance, putting them in asylums,
subjecting them to all sorts of experiments and treatments.
Speaker 12 (39:13):
Well, yeah, I mean it's part of medical history is
the diagnosis of hysteria with women. In fact, the surgery
of a hysterectomy was believed that if they remove the
uterus that the woman's issue would go away. So it's
called a hysterectomy because of hysteria, hysterectomy, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
So that is something no offense Crown's but I think
to alleviate the problem, it shouldn't be the uterus to
be removed. It should probably be the husband. Doctor Bethany Marshall,
can you jump in on that female hysteria, because I
believe Wendy is being judged because she's a woman and
(39:55):
she has an orthodox behavior.
Speaker 8 (39:57):
You know, a hysteria is like a a transient emotional
state that goes away. It's not a sign of anything deeper.
And there can also be something called pseudo dementia where
a person appears to have dementia on the surface but
they don't really have it. I think the thing about
Britney Spears Nancy is that the problem is they placed
her in a conservatorship with her father. Families are notoriously
(40:22):
money hungry when they have a star in their midst
and in this case, what the judge is doing is
removing her from the family and putting her with a
neutral party who has no skin in the game. This
person is not going to profit financially off of Wendy Williams.
I think the elephant in the room, Nancy, I really do,
(40:42):
is the sign getting paid, Yes, but not millions of dollars.
She can't do to Wendy Williams what Britney Spears father did.
That is the big difference. And Nancy, the judge is
getting it right in one respect for sure, and that
is she's sending Wendy Williams back for further time testing.
In that case, she will see the progression of the disease,
(41:04):
which will then be compared against the baseline.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Well, doctor Bethany Marshall, you got me over the barrel
with her drinking. If in fact she has alcohol related
brain damage. This judge socle Off has some sort of
problem with Wendy Williams, and she really recused herself from
the case. She does not appear impartial and even if
(41:29):
she can control herself on the bench now, it's very
apparent she has ill feelings toward Wendy Williams. I wouldn't
want her on my case.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
We wait as justice unfolds. Free Wendy Williams, Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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