November 2, 2025 • 43 mins
A New York judge has dismissed two state-level terrorism-related murder charges against Luigi Mangione.
The dismissed charges were first-degree murder in furtherance of an act of terrorism and second-degree murder as a crime of terrorism. The judge ruled that state prosecutors did not present sufficient evidence to the grand jury to support the claim that Mangione intended to "intimidate and coerce a civilian population" or influence government policy. That is the legal threshold for state terrorism charges.
Mangione still faces several other serious charges, including a second-degree murder charge and federal charges that could carry the death penalty.
Attorney General Pam Bondi directed federal prosecutors to seek the death penalty, which marks the first such directive by the Trump administration. New York, where the murder occurred, has abolished the death penalty, and Mangione's lawyers are attempting to block the federal death penalty pursuit, arguing the move is a political stunt.
JOINING NANCY GRACE TODAY:
- Matthew Mangino - Attorney, Former District Attorney (Lawrence County); Author: "The Executioner's Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words and Executions of 46 Persons in the United States"
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker," and featured in hit show "Paris in Love" on Peacock; Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLive
- Tom Smith - Former NYPD Detective, Former Member of FBI/NYPD Joint Terrorism Task Force, and Co-Host of the GOLD SHIELDS Podcast; FB & Instagram: @thegoldshieldshow
- Sheryl McCollum - Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, and Host of "Zone 7;" X: @149zone7
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet," and Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;" X:@JoScottForensic
- Christina Aguayo - National News Anchor, Salem News Channel; Facebook: @ChristinaAguayoNews, Instagram: @Christina.AguayoNew
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Thousands of Luigimngioni fans are thrilled and celebrate openly in
the street as a judge dismisses terrorism charges. This as
the same fans are outraged at comparisons between Luigimi and
(00:29):
Gioni and the Charlie Kirk killer. I'm Nancy Grace. This
is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being
with us. First of all, Luigi Mangioni is caught on
video gunning down a healthcare boss, right Brian Thompson, minding
(00:51):
his own business, going to some sort of a conference
in downtown Manhattan, when Mangione, according to the.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Video, comes up behind him and him dead on the sidewalk.
Remember father of two.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Now, the Mangioni fans are thrilled when a judge dismisses
two of the most serious charges against Mangione. What judge
Judge Gregory Caro claiming the evidence was legally insufficient for
murdering the first degree?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
What isn't that up.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
To a jury? This leaves him with one count of
murder in the second degree. How has this happened? This
is a huge legal win for Mangione. Mangione paraded into
the Manhattan Supreme Court looking stoic, and then got the
good news. This is Supporters thronged the outside of the
(01:49):
downtown Manhattan Courthouse. This was Mangioni's first appearance since the
murder of Charlie Kirk, another high profile case that has
been compared to Mangionies and like the Kurrent assassin, mangione wrote,
deny depos and delay on the bullets.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Wow, what a wack adoodle. These are the facts.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Earlier this morning in Altuna, Pennsylvania, members of the Altuna
Police Department arrested Luigi Mangioni, a twenty six year old
mail on firearms charges. At this time, he is believed
to be our person of interest.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
From what we understand, McDonald's employee and Altoona in Western
Pennsylvania spotted the guy and thinks he looked like the
health Boss assassin, probably trying to use a fake ID
in a McDonald's. According to law enforcement and The New
(02:55):
York Post, the man being eyed for the cold blooded
ex execution of Brian Thompson. The guy has a gun,
a silencer for fake IDs, and other items consistent with
what Elie was looking for in the case. But is
it him? Does he match this description? According to a
(03:18):
McDonald's employee, he does.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
What else do we know? Where?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Is Altoona, Pennsylvania, Western Pennsylvania, two hundred and eighty miles
away from Manhattan, a little over a five hour drive.
But the manhunt across the nation going in every direction
from Manhattan. Divers, drones, you name it, all used employed
(03:45):
to find the killer of the health care boss.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
What led to the detainment of this guy?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
We also understand that in his possession is a New
Jersey at Fay idate, possibly used to check into that
Manhattan hostile police press conference.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
A man was taken into custody today at Altuda, Pennsylvania
this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni.
He's a male, twenty six years old. He was born
and raised in Maryland. We know he has tis to
San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.
He has no prior arrest history in New York. Members
(04:28):
of the NYPD Detective Bureau are currently traveling to Pennsylvania
with members of the Manhattan District Attorney's Office to interview
this subject.
Speaker 5 (04:36):
This case was brought to a successful.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Conclusion based on the coordinated effort between numerous NYPD units,
including the Intelligence and counter Terrorism Bureau, our federal partners
at the FBI, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and of course,
members of the Altoona Police Department in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
On Thursday, one day after.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
This crime was committed, the NYPD released a photo of
the shooter in this case. This picture was obtained by
the NYPD during one of their extensive video canvases. We
took that photograph and we asked for the public's health
and identifying this subject, and the public responded. Hundreds of
tips began to pour into our hotline. Each tip was
investigated thoroughly, and we began to release additional photographs as
(05:19):
they came into our possession. The NYPD provided these photos
to numerous media outlets, Local, national, and international outlets released
the photo via television, print, social media, and online content. Luckily,
a citizen in Pennsylvania recognized.
Speaker 5 (05:35):
Our subject and called local law enforcement.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Members of the Altoona Police Department responded to the call,
and based on their investigation, they notified the NYPD. This
investigation is still active and ongoing.
Speaker 5 (05:47):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 6 (05:50):
I had a couple questions about give the document that
he was found in possession with. Can you go a
little bit more in depth about those motivations that you mentioned,
was that's the specifically meaned in that document? Was there
anything more about him willing to go after others? And
also in that document, was there any indication that explains
(06:10):
us how the level of detail as he went into
killing him, like, is there anything.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
That that document is currently in the possession of the
auto and a police department as part of their investigation,
but just from briefly speaking with them, we don't think
that there's any specific threats to other people mentioned in
that document, but it does seem that he has some.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
Ill will towards corporate America.
Speaker 7 (06:30):
Can you point to a single linchpin that held practice case.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
There's numerous lynchpins in this case.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
And the fact that we've recovered an enormous amount of
forensic evidence, an enormous amount of video, and once again
with your help and the public SELP so I couldn't.
I really couldn't put it on one thing, but if
I had to, it would be the release of that
photograph from the media. We had divers in the Ward
yesterday that came up negative results the passport. We don't
(06:56):
believe that he was planning on doing any traveling at
this time. We don't think he at this point investigation,
we don't think he was trying to flee the country.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Person at McDonald's were they buying? What were they doing at.
Speaker 8 (07:04):
That exact comport?
Speaker 5 (07:06):
He was an employee at the McDonald's.
Speaker 9 (07:08):
But what was the aspector?
Speaker 5 (07:10):
Dudes, he was sitting there reading nada from the New
York Post. I was just hoping to get more details
of the capture itself. Did he put up a fight?
Speaker 6 (07:17):
Did he say it through the cops?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
And we've also recorded that he published online anti health
KA industry rantings.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Can you share with us some of the services that
he posted on.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
We're still working through his social media and we're going
to do a complete scrub of that Preliminarily, like I said,
he seems that he has some ill will tod Corporate America,
but that will all come out as part of our investigation.
We're not done here. We're still going to be putting
this together. We're still going to be working very hard
to bring this to a successful conclusion.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
A ghost gun a silence, sir, Fake IDs and a
handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Sounds like our guy. But what else led to this
entertainment in Pennsylvania?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Hey, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renown psychoalyst out of La,
author of deal Breaker. You can see her on Peacock Now,
Doctor Bethany. The theory that the assassin meant to scatter
toy Monopoly money over the dead body.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
That tells me a lot about him.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
He's got a lot of time sitting in somebody's basement,
thinking and plotting. It almost rules out a day job
in my mind. But that said, we know he's white male.
We know he's gotten money and a guy that can
fund himself cash wise for nearly two weeks in Manhattan.
(08:41):
We also know that while he may have meant to
scatter fake monopoly money all over the dead body, sending
a message as if the nine millimeter bullet didn't do that,
he didn't leave the money behind. But he did leave
behind a water bottle with DNA and fingerprints on it.
He left behind a candy or bar wrapper. He left
(09:02):
behind a burner phone. If they can break into that
burner flyown burner found that is going to be a
tremendous source of evidence. But he forgot to strow the.
Speaker 7 (09:12):
Money, Nancy, he forgot it. This guy is obsessional. In
the crime world, you may say methodical. I say obsessional,
meaning he has been thinking about this for a long
long time. When I have a patient like this come
into my Beverly Hills office, they usually are enraged at
one person and that is all they can talk about.
(09:33):
What they would like to do, what the person's look
on their face would be like, you know, Nancy, With
obsessional paranoia the person the person sort of alleviates their
rage by constantly thinking about inflicting harm on the victim.
But I also think although he obsessed about this and
(09:54):
planted it out this was his first crime, he did
not He did not think about what it would be
like to drop a candy wrapper, drop the water bottle.
He didn't have time to plan them. You didn't have
time to scatter the monopoly money.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
This was all in his head. You'd never practiced before.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Hey, you know what, Tom Smith, former NYPD, knows this
area like the back of his hand. Tom the burner,
the cell phone. I mean, there's an outside chance it's
his actual cell phone. But the reports we're hearing is
it's a burner phone. Lauren Colin, Yes, no burner phone,
actual phone, burner phone, Nancy tom Smith.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
What I'm coming to you about is the phone? What
an idiot? I think Bethany's right.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
This may be his first time at the rodeo, and
you know, like, well, let me think of a good one.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Robert Blake. Remember when he and his henchman.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Got his bodyguards, got together and murdered Bondi Lee Bakley, and.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
They had this extensive to do list.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Very often you can catch the purp because of their
to do list and they're over planning, right. Uh. But
the burner phone, they're really hard to break into. You
do you remember in the Alexan Burrogg trial they had
to bring in the Secret Service to crack his phone.
Speaker 9 (11:09):
Yeah, and I agree with Lauren, it's a burner phone
and who knows what's on there? Yeah, he could just
use it for simple things. Again, if he plans it
out and knows Berner phones and what to use them for,
there may not be a lot on there, but the
ability to break in there might not be that difficult
because of the low technology that Bernard Phone and giugi
(11:30):
Are and the limited amount of information that'll be on.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
There, all the surveillance video, all the pictures that we've
got so far, talking on the phone just before the murder. Hey,
Doctor Bethany Marshall, and then I'm going to follow up
with renowned defense attorney Jason Oceans.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Doctor Bethany, He's not worried. Look at him.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
He has practiced this over and over and over. He
has been watching the victim like a hawk from the
moment the victim got into town. This guy knows the
itinerary by heart. He knew that there was a breakfast,
he knew that that started at eight o'clock. He knew
that the victim was going over ahead of time from
(12:11):
the Hilton over to the Executive Forum where he was
set to speak that morning. Now, all of this surveillance
video is from individuals and businesses along the trek.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Check it out.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
So what I'm getting at, Dr Bethany, this guy's cold, cool,
and calculated.
Speaker 7 (12:32):
This is definitely cold blooded and methodical. To use the
panel's term, Nancy, There's one thing this guy forgot to do.
He didn't watch the Nancy Grace Show. Because if he
had he would have known that there were surveillance cameras
all along that street. And that fifteen minute phone call.
That makes me wonder if this is like the DC
Sniper where an older, more ruthless person recruited a younger person,
(12:57):
or that he's acting in concert with somebody else and
that's why he's on that phone.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Hey, Lauren, it was a call fifteen minutes before the shooting,
not a fifteen minute phone call.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Correct.
Speaker 10 (13:08):
Correct, The phone call occurred at six thirty am, so
doctor Bethany.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
But I agree with what you were saying. But he
did not yact for fifteen minutes. It's almost as if
he's checking in because I'm wondering is he speaking or
is he listening?
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I can't tell. Plus his mouth is covered right there.
And I'll tell you why.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Jason Ocean is joining me renow defense attorney joining us
out of this jurisdiction.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Who also, You and I have walked this track before.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Together at Jason Ocean, So back around.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Por TV and hl N Day's.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Jason absolutely the reason I'm wondering if he was listening
to something and not talking.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I prosecuted an arson.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Murder and just before the guy brined his mansion down
and tried to fake that his wife died in the
fire from smokinghilation.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
He called and checked the weather channel.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Jason, I was so happy he called and checked the
weather channel to find out if it was going to
rain the day he was setting the house on fire.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
So, for all I know.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
This guy's checking the bus schedule or checking was Now.
I know he was not on a flight. I know
he was on a bus. But every time I'm headed
to Legardia, I call or I check online to see
if my delta flight is delayed. Okay, how do I
know if he was just checking something or actually speaking
to someone. In Bethany's train of thought, what if he
(14:37):
called someone it was a quick callment, Hey I'm on
the way right now, I'm walking, I just passed Starbucks.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
It could be that. It could be anything, NTI I.
Speaker 11 (14:46):
Think the theory that, you know, the potential theory that
he was directed by someone and that's why he was
on the phone is fascinating.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
And then also struck.
Speaker 11 (14:54):
By that his lack of knowledge, you know, the overall
aspect of the cameras that are everywhere. I think you
didn't plan for that. That was the one thing in
this seemingly meticulous planning that was that was not done.
But that phone call could be very critical if we
can find out if it was an incoming or an
outgoing call, and the limited technology it has in the
(15:17):
ability to bust that phone up.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I got to figure out how the Secret Service actually
cracks it.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
You'd think it would be easy.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Because you know, Cheryl McCollum with me forensic expert. When
I was researching for my last book, Don't Be a Victim,
I found out that about I think it was seventy
percent or eighty percent, some crazy astronomical number of people
still use the factory code that they had on answer machines,
(15:46):
or they do one two three four is their code,
or one one one one, or of course sixty nine
sixty nine that's now tried and true, or let's see
lucky numbers that they come up with, like seven seven
seven seven.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
It's so predictable.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
But then you got somebody like this who's uh half smart,
and he's probably got some bizarre code on his cellphone
the burner. You know how long it took them to
crack Alex Murdog's final They had to bring in the
Secret Service to.
Speaker 12 (16:18):
Do it exactly mean, if you look at that phone call,
could have been something as simple as he called him
seek to work because he knew he wouldn't gonna make it.
Who you can call it? Six forty five am is
a very small group of people, So it could have
been he's checking the bus schedule because he's believing that
morning and wants to make sure that's smart.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
It's smart smart.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Wait, you just really gave me clue, Cheryl, who are
you going to call at six o'clock.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
In the morning? Okay, not very many people.
Speaker 12 (16:49):
Okay, go ahead, because if you call your mom or
a sister or something like that, you're going to scare
the day like that of them. So it's got to
be somebody that's obvious. So you can leave a message
for somebody because you, oh, they're not at work yet,
you can check the bus schedule. I'm not as interested
in that as I am his other messages. What he
wrote on the shellcasing the threat before the murder, the
(17:11):
fact that he would choose New York and not the victim,
Poe state, why not shoot him at any red light
going to work?
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Oh, Cheryl, Cheryl, you just gave me another tidbit hold on.
I want to tell everybody.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
At first we were led to believe that the bullets
were engraved in some way with.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Deny defend deposed.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
We now know it was written with black sharp which
tells me even more. Do you know that you can
get a handwriting sample off of that? Not that I
think police are going to need a handwriting sample when
they've got fingerprints in DNA, But you never know what
might click with the jury.
Speaker 12 (17:55):
What about it, Cheryl one hundred percent. But again it
tells you he took extra time to leave a message
on shellcasings. He took extra time to get the monopoly money.
That's a message. Shooting him in New York City the
morning of that meeting was a message. He could have
shot him anytime in his home, stated a red light,
but he didn't. This is somebody that was a laser
(18:18):
focus about his intended target and his motive.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Period crime stories with Nancy Grace, The sad sack lovelorn
fans of Luigi Mangone alternately thrilled and miserable at the
(18:45):
same time, thrilled that some of the most serious charges
against mange On he had been dropped by some crackpot
judge before it could even get to a jury.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
And miserable because Mangione is being compared to the Charlie
Kirk assassin.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
And they don't like that.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Oh well, here are the facts.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
The suspect was in a McDonald's and was recognized by
an employee, who then called local police. Responding officers questioned
the suspect, who was acting suspiciously and was carrying multiple
fraudulent IDs as well as a US passport.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
First, i want to go out to our dive expert.
I'm curious about the search in the lake at Central Park.
Speaker 13 (19:32):
The New York Police Department dive team is called into
action after the discovery of the backpack near Hexher Playground.
The divers are seen trawling a Central Park pond behind
an area cordoned off with police tape next to Bethesda Fountain,
in a body of water known as the Lake near
Central Park boat House. The NYPD has been searching Central
Park since the gunman was seen escaping on an ee
bike into the park.
Speaker 14 (19:52):
Police have not yet recovered.
Speaker 13 (19:54):
The distinctive gun used in the shooting, and it's unclear
if officers recovered any evidence from the water.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Special guest Ben Dobrian Virginia Beach Emergency Medical Services also
the Dean of Professional Services at Virginia Wesleyan University. He
is an expert diver and he is actually a dive instructor. Well.
Speaker 8 (20:17):
I do a lot of police diving also and just
into emergency diving. And so I'm looking at this on
Google Maps, and it's a relatively closed area, so that
makes it a lot easier than having to go into
the ocean or you know, a great lake or the
Chestpea Bay, So it makes it a lot easier for
the divers. It's also I just looked it up, it's
only four to six feet deep, so that also makes
it a lot more simple to do a dive operation.
(20:37):
But what they're could be doing is they're could be
looking for anything that they can find. And one thing
that your listeners and watchers need to understand is anything
that exists above water exists underwater. People use it as
a garbage dump. We find you name it, bikes, washing machines,
shopping carts, so there's a lot of debris. The more
people that are around, the more people use that as
(20:58):
a dumping grounds. Two things that I imagine they're looking for
just listening to the different news reports and listening to you.
They're looking for the firearm obviously, but that telephone also,
they're looking for that. You know, those are both very
small items that are relatively easy to discard, and one
of the things that if you find an item like that,
you're gonna have to recover it. Evidence recovery is the
(21:19):
same underwater as it is above water from the police perspective,
but the one thing we have to keep in mind
is that it's in a different environment. Evidence above water
is in air, so you all if you do is
keep it in the air. But evidence that's recovered underwater
you have to recover it with the water. If you
take it out of the water, things start to break
down relatively quickly. When I'm talking about specifically is fingerprints
(21:39):
if you take something out of the water, and fingerprints
can last for about a week underwater, so the clock
is ticking. But if you remove whether it's a firearm
or the telephone or any piece of evidence, you're going
to want to take it out of the water and
just bring some of the local water with it and
then bring that to your forensics office, and then they're
going to drain the water and then do all the
(22:01):
magic that they do to get the fingerprints off of it.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Okay, Ben Dobrin is joining me, not only dean Professional
Services at Virginia Westley, and he is a dive instructor
and a police diver. Now, Ben, you just taught me
something I didn't know. Number One, when items are taken
out of the water, you have to preserve them in
preferably the ambiance water the water in which they were in,
(22:28):
because the moment they hit the air, it starts to degrade.
For instance, fingerprints. Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star
of a.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Hit series Body Bags.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
With Joe Scott Morgan, I wanted to talk to you
about the gun, but I want to follow up on
what Dobrain is telling us. Yes, prints are preserved underwater
because Prince fingerprints are based on the oil in the
body oil water.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Get it. You can explain better than me. Go ahead.
Speaker 15 (23:00):
Yeah, Our fingerprints come about as a result of the
discharge of the fatty lipids that we have in the
pores that surround the print that's left behind. Remember, we
don't have fingerprints on the tips of our fingers. We
have friction ridges that leave behind fingerprints. So in this
particular case, we believe that this is a weapon that
(23:22):
has a magazine in it, Nancy. So if you have
a magazine, that means that you're going to be pressing
down on the rounds as you're loading the magazine in,
and also you're touching that surface of the magazine. The
magazine is this then fitted into essentially the grip of
this weapon, and it's kind of in a protected space there.
(23:45):
So what Ben is talking about is right on the money.
You have this protected space. If you can keep this
in the water that it comes from and take that
into the lab, they can get around that weapon pretty
quickly raise any kind of latent prints that might be there.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
You did that so eloquently, Joe Scott, I would have
just said, you know, like oil and water don't mix.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
That's exactly what I'm saying here.
Speaker 15 (24:11):
That one more thing about it, please, Jun Yeah, you
think about you know, Ben had mentioned how densely populated,
and all of us have been to Manhattan, how densely
populated this area. This guy and pay very close than
you what I'm about to say. This guy, if he
did this. He ain't the first person to think about
(24:33):
dumping a weapon into that lake, all right, So they
have a herculean task at hand here dealing around, dealing
in this filthy water where they're going to be using
their hands, crawling along. How many other weapons are in there?
Just because you find a firearm merged doesn't mean it's
(24:55):
the firearm that was used.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Ben, I want to follow up with you on this.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
That's a great thing to throw it in Chason Ocean's
when we come back. But this guy did so much planning, Ben,
But I bet he didn't measure the depth of this
lake and has no idea even though it's big, it's
twenty acres, I.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Guarantee you he didn't know that it was just four
to six feet deep.
Speaker 8 (25:22):
And I just found that Google. And as you go
a little bit further north, it looks like there's the
reservoir in the park and that's forty feet deep, So
that is significantly deeper. I mean, it's obviously you can
dive that. It just takes a little bit longer to
get down and get up. But four to six feet
is super easy. If they find something, they can just
pop their head out of the water.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace outside the Manhattan Criminal Courthouse.
Mangioni's fan group, mostly young females, all wore t shirts
in his honor, one that said Luigi's Pizza Brooklyn. Really.
(26:04):
Some were masks in another quote tribute, like the one
he is said to have worn while murdering CEO Health
Boss Brian Thompson, trying to hide his identity. Sometimes she
was there because healthcare is a human right. Oh really? Okay,
(26:26):
Well that's not what murder is about, she says. She
sees Mangioni as a quote symbol.
Speaker 5 (26:34):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
These are the facts.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Nabbed in western Pennsylvania in the Altoona area at a
local McDonald's. He has now been arrested on charges relating
to a gun, sources telling us it was a so
called ghost gun, a gun that has no serial number
that is often put together with a kit the parts
(26:59):
of the gun purchased or obtained separately, a ghost gun
and a silencer, along with a hand written manifesto attacking
the healthcare industry.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Joining me right now is expert Tom Smith, NYPD, detective
thirty years and the star of the gold Shields podcast.
Tom Again, thank you for being with us. We've learned
a lot about the gun. At first, it looks like
it's been manipulated with a homemade silencer on it. We
(27:35):
are now understanding that is not a homemade silencer.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
That this is a weapon that is often used by.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Veterinarians to put down that's a nice word for it, animals.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
The magazine is in the grip.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
And when many people thought that it was jamming and
he was clearing it after each shot, which I thought
he did really calmly and methodically, we now know it
may be a bolt action that has to be manually
cycled after each shot.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
That changes things.
Speaker 9 (28:07):
Tom Smith, Yes, it does, because now he knows he's
proficient in that weapon, knowing every time he fires it
he's going to have to chamber around. And if I
could show you real quick, this is a glock, not
the same weapon that was used, but similar functioning. Every
time he fires that weapon, he'd have to click it
like this in order to chamber around to fire the
(28:28):
next round. And the thing about him is he knows
the weapon because he knows that's coming. It's not a
surprise to him. So he fires around, has to clear it,
fire another round, clear it to chamber around each time,
and he knows the weapon, and he knows that he
is coming and has to do that, and that's why
he stays kind of calm. Any other criminal I've ever
(28:50):
dealt with in New York City, what's a weapons jams,
they throw it away, they run. He knows exactly how
this weapon is being used.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Okay, for once, the movie's got it right, Tom Smith,
because in the movies you always see the person jam
the weapon and they just throw it or they throw
it at the person they're shooting at. Here when you
look at the video, he's walking toward the victim. I
guarantee you, Tom Smith, this guy practiced probably at a
(29:20):
gun range.
Speaker 9 (29:21):
Oh yeah, and you probably have practiced with that weapon,
because like I said, there's a big difference when you're
viewing this, whether someone's panicking or anticipating the movement he's doing.
He knows what he has to do to fire that weapon.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
You know, I want you to explain one more time
for novices out there about the bolt action. We now
don't believe the gun was jamming everybody. We believe it
was a bolt action that has to be manually recycled
after every shot. Could you explain that and demonstrate one
more time, please, Tom.
Speaker 9 (29:53):
Yeah, this is a nine millimeter weapon and the magazine
port is in here just like you mentioned, it's at
the bottom of the handle. So once a round is fired,
he has to manually clear that round to chamber another
round in order to fire it. He'll fire it again
and do the same thing over and over again. So,
like I said, he's very aware of how that gun
(30:15):
he's used and what he used to do to fire.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
You know another issue, Tom Smith, And I'm going to
bring everybody back in in just a second, but Tom,
another feature of this particular gun that is traditionally used
by veterinarians to put down animals is it has.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
A very quiet shot, very quiet shot.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
And the gun we're talking about has a long as
we saw. Could you hold yours up again as a
very long barrel like that? This one even seemed a
little bit longer than yours. And that can be confused
because it looks like a silencer, but it's not.
Speaker 9 (31:00):
It's a long weapon and easier to aim because you
have more of an angle of your target in front
of you. So, like I said, he is very aware
of how this weapon is used. And what it needs
to do to fight is.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
This gun is a specialized gun.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
This guy practiced and practiced, and he had everything planned out.
You know, he practiced with the murder weapon. He didn't
just trot over to Connecticut and buy a gun and
then use it the next day. That did not happen.
Think of the mindset here.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
This is a gun. He brought with him on a bus.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Didn't get on a plane because he couldn't get through
Tsa with a gun, for Pete's sake. And the airlines
know who you are, they have your picture, they have
you every three feet in the airport.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
He didn't want that. He wanted to travel with his gun.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
What criminal that's practiced and practiced and planned and plan
was to use an aligen gun.
Speaker 9 (31:56):
Well, it's hard to trace. That's why if you're using
a normal weapon with a serial number and so forth,
it's easily traced, whether you find it in a month
or a year. This we have no idea whether there's
any serial numbers on it, whether there's any distinguishing markings
on it. So it could be very benign in identifying it.
(32:17):
And that's why he paid.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
What I'm saying, Doctor Bethany Marshall is that this guy
did not just go into a gun shop and buy
the gun just before the murder. If he planned this
methodically to get to Manhattan and to carry out this crime,
staking out the scene the moment he got there November
twenty four to ten pm, he didn't go to bed.
He went to this location where the forum was going
(32:41):
to be held. He didn't buy a new gun.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I think he brought his preferred weapon with him after
practicing for hours on end.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
This guy is upper middle class.
Speaker 7 (32:54):
This guy has money, He has disposable money, and he
had access to a weapon in a professional environment. This
is not somebody who goes to a gun shop with
a fake ID and tries to skip the background check
and gets a gun. This is a man who knows
this weapon. This is also a man who has researched
(33:15):
where this CEO is going to be.
Speaker 14 (33:17):
Early reports on the shooting of Brian Thompson pointed to
a silencer being used or a modern version of a
rare World War two gun. The investigators found themselves looking
into a Connecticut gun store they believe may have sold
the weapon. That lead did not pan out, but now
Chief Detective Joseph Kenny says they are looking into the
use of a veterinary gun being used as the murder weapon.
(33:40):
Kenny says the weapon is normally used on farms and
ranches when an animal needs to be put down. The
animal can be shot with this type of weapon that
doesn't cause a large noise.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
The twenty six year old taking into custody on gun
charges apparently had a gust gun, a silencer, multiple fake IDs,
and a hand written manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
It's not just this moment.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
This moment is the culmination of thousands of law enforcement
man hours like this.
Speaker 16 (34:15):
Amid speculation that the shooter traveled to New York on
a bus that left from Atlanta, NYPD officers have traveled
south for part of their investigation. APD confirmed through a
statement that its officers are assisting the NYPD investigators, whom
arrived in Atlanta on Saturday. Sources say they are searching
through video from the bus station in town and the
(34:36):
others along the route to New York City. Officers are
working to find a name from tickets purchased for a
November twenty fourth Greyhound trip.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
You notice the investigative reporter said, looking for a name,
I guarantee you it's not going to be his name.
Let me just say that.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
The security and verification procedures at the bus station a
lot less stringent than it is at the airport. He
could have gone in with any fake ID and gotten
a bus ticket under a fake name, just like he
had a fake ID that he got out of Jersey,
just like he used a fake ID when he checked
into that youth hostel. And speaking of the youth hostel,
(35:14):
Lauren Colin joining the investigative reporter and star a primetime
crime on YouTube, Lauren, much was made of him flirting
with the receptionist.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
That's not what happened.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
We now know that to check into that hostile and
it's not just at a hostel. That's where they're doing it.
Fancy hotels too. When they say, you know, we need
some ID, look at them. The next time they ask
you that, they look back up at your face, right, So, yeah,
there was a little flirtation.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
You can see him smiling right there.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
That's about ten thousand dollars worth of orthodontia on that
mouth right there.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
But that's another can of worms.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Lauren, So I don't know that the clerk was flirting
with him. She very well may have said, pulled down
your mask. I got to make an I mean, this
is not the rints okay, right.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Right, And you're correct, Nancy.
Speaker 10 (36:06):
I did visit the hostel, and everybody working there was friendly,
not overly friendly. Something I noticed was that there were
multiple cameras throughout the lobby of the hostele. There were
cameras outside of the hostel as well, So.
Speaker 17 (36:22):
My understanding is they most likely have multiple angles of
this guy, of this shooter. I also visited the businesses
surrounding the hostel. I went inside to a local bodega.
I went inside to a dunkin Donuts and they informed
me that they not do any sort of talking about
what they know to anyone but the NYPD, but also
(36:44):
that they turned over footage as well. So I believe
that NYPD is.
Speaker 10 (36:49):
Going through all of the footage they have right now,
which look, it's gonna take some time. This is not
going to happen overnight, but I think there's going to
be a lot more and stills being released of this
guy and what he did during his time in New
York before the shooting.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Straight out to you, Cheryl, McCollum, Let's look at this guy.
Who is he? Based on everything we know right.
Speaker 12 (37:11):
Now, Nancy, I think one thing that's imperative that everybody's
not mentioning is when you talk to the clerk at
the hostel. If this were my case, the first thing
I would have asked her is does he have an accent?
Speaker 1 (37:23):
And that's why I.
Speaker 12 (37:24):
Think again, they are focused on Atlanta. They know where
the bus originated, they know what he sounds like. If
he's from here, they're gonna know it. The other thing
about that weapon, remember we have three words, which means
three possible shellcases, So that gun either jams and we
have an unspent or we have three scent which means
(37:46):
he missed one.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Possibly a ghost gun, a silence, sir, fake IDs, and
a handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Sounds like our guy. But what else led to this
detainment in Pennsylvania?
Speaker 2 (38:06):
To doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renow it, psycho analyst
Way and doctor Bethany, what's your take on it?
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Who is he? Nancy?
Speaker 7 (38:13):
This guy is upper middle class, he's educated.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
He knew to do this hit.
Speaker 7 (38:19):
At the healthcare conference because he's sending a message. If
he did it at a traffic stop or at the
victim's home, it would not send the message. The scribbling
on the ammunition he caught that from researching internal documents
at insurance companies and citing words that employees or claims
(38:41):
processors use to deny claims. I am going to guess
that he had a family member who has denied care,
and because of that denied care, the family member died
and he cannot get over it. So this is although
he looks like a street thug on you know, at
first glance.
Speaker 12 (39:00):
He is not.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
He's got a square chin, perfect teeth, wax between the eyebrows,
eyes going slightly down at the outer edges. He can
change a lot, but there are some things he can't change,
like his fingerprints and DNA.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Joe Scott, Yep.
Speaker 15 (39:22):
You're absolutely right. Those are unique to him, Nancy. And
here's one other thing. I did a little digging one
of this weapon that they keep referring to. That's the
veterinarian euthanasia weapon. They believe might be what's referred to
as a Station six brand weapon. My research revealed that
there are essentially I think either four or five locations
(39:45):
in the metro area of Atlanta where these can be
specifically purchased. And I think that if they believe that
that's what this is and that he transported it, I
think you're on the money here. Relative to getting on
a bus with this thing. He may have picked it
up down there at some point in time, and it's
not a very efficient weapon for doing the task that
(40:07):
he was trying to do, so I don't know, maybe
he was trying to you know, he's not going to
draw attention to himself, like when you buy a suppressor
separately from a weapon, perhaps, and it's not very efficient
because you lose your site picture every time you have
to rotate that bolt on the back of that weapon,
which is what he's doing. He's spending it. I think
(40:31):
that many of the answers that we're looking for are
probably going to rest as well. And this is something
that we will hear a lot about, I believe, with
United Healthcare and their chief security officer, who was actually
hired back in August of twenty twenty three, I want
to know what she knows. I want to know what
her assets know within that business. Are there letters that
(40:52):
have been written, are their lawsuits that have been filed
relative to what doctor Bethany mentioned about healthcare claims that
may have been blown off or maybe they didn't receive
what they wanted, but trust me, the security apparatus within
that company is going to be working on them.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
And of course, along with tot Mom Casey Anthony called
Mam Laurie Valo. Now Luigi Mangioni has his own documentary
called Who Is Luigi Mangoni?
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Do I care who he is?
Speaker 2 (41:26):
What I care about is did he gun down an
unarmed man in broad daylight?
Speaker 1 (41:30):
That's what I care about.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Others of Luigimi and Gioni's female fan base were a
dressed in the same green as the Luigi character in
Super Mario Brothers. Needs alert. This is not a video game.
Brian Thompson is really dead. He really bled out on
the sidewalk, So you know where you can stick your
(41:53):
Luigi video game. These sad sack love lorn females who
obviously aren't working because they're hanging out outside the courthouse
in the middle of the day. Climb quiet. We're here
because we both support Luigi for what he did. Taking
a bite out of corruption of the healthcare industry. Luigi
Mangioni comes from a multi millionaire family. He was born
(42:17):
with not one, but two silver spoons in his mouth.
He went to Ivy League schools, prep high schools. He
had every advantage you can imagine, and was vacationing in
a high rise in Hawaii for months on end before
he hatched the plan to murder the CEO boss. Here's
(42:38):
one woman wearing a free Luigi T shirt. You know
she needs to go get a job and get out
from in front of the courthouse that said, these are
the facts surrounding Brian Thompson's cold blood and murder.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
We wait as justice unfalse.
Speaker 5 (42:55):
Good night for him.
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Thousands of Luigimngioni fans are thrilled and celebrate openly in
the street as a judge dismisses terrorism charges. This as
the same fans are outraged at comparisons between Luigimi and
(00:29):
Gioni and the Charlie Kirk killer. I'm Nancy Grace. This
is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being
with us. First of all, Luigi Mangioni is caught on
video gunning down a healthcare boss, right Brian Thompson, minding
(00:51):
his own business, going to some sort of a conference
in downtown Manhattan, when Mangione, according to the.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Video, comes up behind him and him dead on the sidewalk.
Remember father of two.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Now, the Mangioni fans are thrilled when a judge dismisses
two of the most serious charges against Mangione. What judge
Judge Gregory Caro claiming the evidence was legally insufficient for
murdering the first degree?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
What isn't that up.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
To a jury? This leaves him with one count of
murder in the second degree. How has this happened? This
is a huge legal win for Mangione. Mangione paraded into
the Manhattan Supreme Court looking stoic, and then got the
good news. This is Supporters thronged the outside of the
(01:49):
downtown Manhattan Courthouse. This was Mangioni's first appearance since the
murder of Charlie Kirk, another high profile case that has
been compared to Mangionies and like the Kurrent assassin, mangione wrote,
deny depos and delay on the bullets.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Wow, what a wack adoodle. These are the facts.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Earlier this morning in Altuna, Pennsylvania, members of the Altuna
Police Department arrested Luigi Mangioni, a twenty six year old
mail on firearms charges. At this time, he is believed
to be our person of interest.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
From what we understand, McDonald's employee and Altoona in Western
Pennsylvania spotted the guy and thinks he looked like the
health Boss assassin, probably trying to use a fake ID
in a McDonald's. According to law enforcement and The New
(02:55):
York Post, the man being eyed for the cold blooded
ex execution of Brian Thompson. The guy has a gun,
a silencer for fake IDs, and other items consistent with
what Elie was looking for in the case. But is
it him? Does he match this description? According to a
(03:18):
McDonald's employee, he does.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
What else do we know? Where?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Is Altoona, Pennsylvania, Western Pennsylvania, two hundred and eighty miles
away from Manhattan, a little over a five hour drive.
But the manhunt across the nation going in every direction
from Manhattan. Divers, drones, you name it, all used employed
(03:45):
to find the killer of the health care boss.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
What led to the detainment of this guy?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
We also understand that in his possession is a New
Jersey at Fay idate, possibly used to check into that
Manhattan hostile police press conference.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
A man was taken into custody today at Altuda, Pennsylvania
this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni.
He's a male, twenty six years old. He was born
and raised in Maryland. We know he has tis to
San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.
He has no prior arrest history in New York. Members
(04:28):
of the NYPD Detective Bureau are currently traveling to Pennsylvania
with members of the Manhattan District Attorney's Office to interview
this subject.
Speaker 5 (04:36):
This case was brought to a successful.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Conclusion based on the coordinated effort between numerous NYPD units,
including the Intelligence and counter Terrorism Bureau, our federal partners
at the FBI, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and of course,
members of the Altoona Police Department in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
On Thursday, one day after.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
This crime was committed, the NYPD released a photo of
the shooter in this case. This picture was obtained by
the NYPD during one of their extensive video canvases. We
took that photograph and we asked for the public's health
and identifying this subject, and the public responded. Hundreds of
tips began to pour into our hotline. Each tip was
investigated thoroughly, and we began to release additional photographs as
(05:19):
they came into our possession. The NYPD provided these photos
to numerous media outlets, Local, national, and international outlets released
the photo via television, print, social media, and online content. Luckily,
a citizen in Pennsylvania recognized.
Speaker 5 (05:35):
Our subject and called local law enforcement.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Members of the Altoona Police Department responded to the call,
and based on their investigation, they notified the NYPD. This
investigation is still active and ongoing.
Speaker 5 (05:47):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 6 (05:50):
I had a couple questions about give the document that
he was found in possession with. Can you go a
little bit more in depth about those motivations that you mentioned,
was that's the specifically meaned in that document? Was there
anything more about him willing to go after others? And
also in that document, was there any indication that explains
(06:10):
us how the level of detail as he went into
killing him, like, is there anything.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
That that document is currently in the possession of the
auto and a police department as part of their investigation,
but just from briefly speaking with them, we don't think
that there's any specific threats to other people mentioned in
that document, but it does seem that he has some.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
Ill will towards corporate America.
Speaker 7 (06:30):
Can you point to a single linchpin that held practice case.
Speaker 5 (06:34):
There's numerous lynchpins in this case.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
And the fact that we've recovered an enormous amount of
forensic evidence, an enormous amount of video, and once again
with your help and the public SELP so I couldn't.
I really couldn't put it on one thing, but if
I had to, it would be the release of that
photograph from the media. We had divers in the Ward
yesterday that came up negative results the passport. We don't
(06:56):
believe that he was planning on doing any traveling at
this time. We don't think he at this point investigation,
we don't think he was trying to flee the country.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Person at McDonald's were they buying? What were they doing at.
Speaker 8 (07:04):
That exact comport?
Speaker 5 (07:06):
He was an employee at the McDonald's.
Speaker 9 (07:08):
But what was the aspector?
Speaker 5 (07:10):
Dudes, he was sitting there reading nada from the New
York Post. I was just hoping to get more details
of the capture itself. Did he put up a fight?
Speaker 6 (07:17):
Did he say it through the cops?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
And we've also recorded that he published online anti health
KA industry rantings.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Can you share with us some of the services that
he posted on.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
We're still working through his social media and we're going
to do a complete scrub of that Preliminarily, like I said,
he seems that he has some ill will tod Corporate America,
but that will all come out as part of our investigation.
We're not done here. We're still going to be putting
this together. We're still going to be working very hard
to bring this to a successful conclusion.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
A ghost gun a silence, sir, Fake IDs and a
handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Sounds like our guy. But what else led to this
entertainment in Pennsylvania?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Hey, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renown psychoalyst out of La,
author of deal Breaker. You can see her on Peacock Now,
Doctor Bethany. The theory that the assassin meant to scatter
toy Monopoly money over the dead body.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
That tells me a lot about him.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
He's got a lot of time sitting in somebody's basement,
thinking and plotting. It almost rules out a day job
in my mind. But that said, we know he's white male.
We know he's gotten money and a guy that can
fund himself cash wise for nearly two weeks in Manhattan.
(08:41):
We also know that while he may have meant to
scatter fake monopoly money all over the dead body, sending
a message as if the nine millimeter bullet didn't do that,
he didn't leave the money behind. But he did leave
behind a water bottle with DNA and fingerprints on it.
He left behind a candy or bar wrapper. He left
(09:02):
behind a burner phone. If they can break into that
burner flyown burner found that is going to be a
tremendous source of evidence. But he forgot to strow the.
Speaker 7 (09:12):
Money, Nancy, he forgot it. This guy is obsessional. In
the crime world, you may say methodical. I say obsessional,
meaning he has been thinking about this for a long
long time. When I have a patient like this come
into my Beverly Hills office, they usually are enraged at
one person and that is all they can talk about.
(09:33):
What they would like to do, what the person's look
on their face would be like, you know, Nancy, With
obsessional paranoia the person the person sort of alleviates their
rage by constantly thinking about inflicting harm on the victim.
But I also think although he obsessed about this and
(09:54):
planted it out this was his first crime, he did
not He did not think about what it would be
like to drop a candy wrapper, drop the water bottle.
He didn't have time to plan them. You didn't have
time to scatter the monopoly money.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
This was all in his head. You'd never practiced before.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Hey, you know what, Tom Smith, former NYPD, knows this
area like the back of his hand. Tom the burner,
the cell phone. I mean, there's an outside chance it's
his actual cell phone. But the reports we're hearing is
it's a burner phone. Lauren Colin, Yes, no burner phone,
actual phone, burner phone, Nancy tom Smith.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
What I'm coming to you about is the phone? What
an idiot? I think Bethany's right.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
This may be his first time at the rodeo, and
you know, like, well, let me think of a good one.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Robert Blake. Remember when he and his henchman.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Got his bodyguards, got together and murdered Bondi Lee Bakley, and.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
They had this extensive to do list.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Very often you can catch the purp because of their
to do list and they're over planning, right. Uh. But
the burner phone, they're really hard to break into. You
do you remember in the Alexan Burrogg trial they had
to bring in the Secret Service to crack his phone.
Speaker 9 (11:09):
Yeah, and I agree with Lauren, it's a burner phone
and who knows what's on there? Yeah, he could just
use it for simple things. Again, if he plans it
out and knows Berner phones and what to use them for,
there may not be a lot on there, but the
ability to break in there might not be that difficult
because of the low technology that Bernard Phone and giugi
(11:30):
Are and the limited amount of information that'll be on.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
There, all the surveillance video, all the pictures that we've
got so far, talking on the phone just before the murder. Hey,
Doctor Bethany Marshall, and then I'm going to follow up
with renowned defense attorney Jason Oceans.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Doctor Bethany, He's not worried. Look at him.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
He has practiced this over and over and over. He
has been watching the victim like a hawk from the
moment the victim got into town. This guy knows the
itinerary by heart. He knew that there was a breakfast,
he knew that that started at eight o'clock. He knew
that the victim was going over ahead of time from
(12:11):
the Hilton over to the Executive Forum where he was
set to speak that morning. Now, all of this surveillance
video is from individuals and businesses along the trek.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Check it out.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
So what I'm getting at, Dr Bethany, this guy's cold, cool,
and calculated.
Speaker 7 (12:32):
This is definitely cold blooded and methodical. To use the
panel's term, Nancy, There's one thing this guy forgot to do.
He didn't watch the Nancy Grace Show. Because if he
had he would have known that there were surveillance cameras
all along that street. And that fifteen minute phone call.
That makes me wonder if this is like the DC
Sniper where an older, more ruthless person recruited a younger person,
(12:57):
or that he's acting in concert with somebody else and
that's why he's on that phone.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Hey, Lauren, it was a call fifteen minutes before the shooting,
not a fifteen minute phone call.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Correct.
Speaker 10 (13:08):
Correct, The phone call occurred at six thirty am, so
doctor Bethany.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
But I agree with what you were saying. But he
did not yact for fifteen minutes. It's almost as if
he's checking in because I'm wondering is he speaking or
is he listening?
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I can't tell. Plus his mouth is covered right there.
And I'll tell you why.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Jason Ocean is joining me renow defense attorney joining us
out of this jurisdiction.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Who also, You and I have walked this track before.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Together at Jason Ocean, So back around.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Por TV and hl N Day's.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Jason absolutely the reason I'm wondering if he was listening
to something and not talking.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I prosecuted an arson.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Murder and just before the guy brined his mansion down
and tried to fake that his wife died in the
fire from smokinghilation.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
He called and checked the weather channel.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Jason, I was so happy he called and checked the
weather channel to find out if it was going to
rain the day he was setting the house on fire.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
So, for all I know.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
This guy's checking the bus schedule or checking was Now.
I know he was not on a flight. I know
he was on a bus. But every time I'm headed
to Legardia, I call or I check online to see
if my delta flight is delayed. Okay, how do I
know if he was just checking something or actually speaking
to someone. In Bethany's train of thought, what if he
(14:37):
called someone it was a quick callment, Hey I'm on
the way right now, I'm walking, I just passed Starbucks.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
It could be that. It could be anything, NTI I.
Speaker 11 (14:46):
Think the theory that, you know, the potential theory that
he was directed by someone and that's why he was
on the phone is fascinating.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
And then also struck.
Speaker 11 (14:54):
By that his lack of knowledge, you know, the overall
aspect of the cameras that are everywhere. I think you
didn't plan for that. That was the one thing in
this seemingly meticulous planning that was that was not done.
But that phone call could be very critical if we
can find out if it was an incoming or an
outgoing call, and the limited technology it has in the
(15:17):
ability to bust that phone up.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I got to figure out how the Secret Service actually
cracks it.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
You'd think it would be easy.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Because you know, Cheryl McCollum with me forensic expert. When
I was researching for my last book, Don't Be a Victim,
I found out that about I think it was seventy
percent or eighty percent, some crazy astronomical number of people
still use the factory code that they had on answer machines,
(15:46):
or they do one two three four is their code,
or one one one one, or of course sixty nine
sixty nine that's now tried and true, or let's see
lucky numbers that they come up with, like seven seven
seven seven.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
It's so predictable.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
But then you got somebody like this who's uh half smart,
and he's probably got some bizarre code on his cellphone
the burner. You know how long it took them to
crack Alex Murdog's final They had to bring in the
Secret Service to.
Speaker 12 (16:18):
Do it exactly mean, if you look at that phone call,
could have been something as simple as he called him
seek to work because he knew he wouldn't gonna make it.
Who you can call it? Six forty five am is
a very small group of people, So it could have
been he's checking the bus schedule because he's believing that
morning and wants to make sure that's smart.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
It's smart smart.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Wait, you just really gave me clue, Cheryl, who are
you going to call at six o'clock.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
In the morning? Okay, not very many people.
Speaker 12 (16:49):
Okay, go ahead, because if you call your mom or
a sister or something like that, you're going to scare
the day like that of them. So it's got to
be somebody that's obvious. So you can leave a message
for somebody because you, oh, they're not at work yet,
you can check the bus schedule. I'm not as interested
in that as I am his other messages. What he
wrote on the shellcasing the threat before the murder, the
(17:11):
fact that he would choose New York and not the victim,
Poe state, why not shoot him at any red light
going to work?
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Oh, Cheryl, Cheryl, you just gave me another tidbit hold on.
I want to tell everybody.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
At first we were led to believe that the bullets
were engraved in some way with.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Deny defend deposed.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
We now know it was written with black sharp which
tells me even more. Do you know that you can
get a handwriting sample off of that? Not that I
think police are going to need a handwriting sample when
they've got fingerprints in DNA, But you never know what
might click with the jury.
Speaker 12 (17:55):
What about it, Cheryl one hundred percent. But again it
tells you he took extra time to leave a message
on shellcasings. He took extra time to get the monopoly money.
That's a message. Shooting him in New York City the
morning of that meeting was a message. He could have
shot him anytime in his home, stated a red light,
but he didn't. This is somebody that was a laser
(18:18):
focus about his intended target and his motive.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Period crime stories with Nancy Grace, The sad sack lovelorn
fans of Luigi Mangone alternately thrilled and miserable at the
(18:45):
same time, thrilled that some of the most serious charges
against mange On he had been dropped by some crackpot
judge before it could even get to a jury.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
And miserable because Mangione is being compared to the Charlie
Kirk assassin.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
And they don't like that.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Oh well, here are the facts.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
The suspect was in a McDonald's and was recognized by
an employee, who then called local police. Responding officers questioned
the suspect, who was acting suspiciously and was carrying multiple
fraudulent IDs as well as a US passport.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
First, i want to go out to our dive expert.
I'm curious about the search in the lake at Central Park.
Speaker 13 (19:32):
The New York Police Department dive team is called into
action after the discovery of the backpack near Hexher Playground.
The divers are seen trawling a Central Park pond behind
an area cordoned off with police tape next to Bethesda Fountain,
in a body of water known as the Lake near
Central Park boat House. The NYPD has been searching Central
Park since the gunman was seen escaping on an ee
bike into the park.
Speaker 14 (19:52):
Police have not yet recovered.
Speaker 13 (19:54):
The distinctive gun used in the shooting, and it's unclear
if officers recovered any evidence from the water.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Special guest Ben Dobrian Virginia Beach Emergency Medical Services also
the Dean of Professional Services at Virginia Wesleyan University. He
is an expert diver and he is actually a dive instructor. Well.
Speaker 8 (20:17):
I do a lot of police diving also and just
into emergency diving. And so I'm looking at this on
Google Maps, and it's a relatively closed area, so that
makes it a lot easier than having to go into
the ocean or you know, a great lake or the
Chestpea Bay, So it makes it a lot easier for
the divers. It's also I just looked it up, it's
only four to six feet deep, so that also makes
it a lot more simple to do a dive operation.
(20:37):
But what they're could be doing is they're could be
looking for anything that they can find. And one thing
that your listeners and watchers need to understand is anything
that exists above water exists underwater. People use it as
a garbage dump. We find you name it, bikes, washing machines,
shopping carts, so there's a lot of debris. The more
people that are around, the more people use that as
(20:58):
a dumping grounds. Two things that I imagine they're looking for
just listening to the different news reports and listening to you.
They're looking for the firearm obviously, but that telephone also,
they're looking for that. You know, those are both very
small items that are relatively easy to discard, and one
of the things that if you find an item like that,
you're gonna have to recover it. Evidence recovery is the
(21:19):
same underwater as it is above water from the police perspective,
but the one thing we have to keep in mind
is that it's in a different environment. Evidence above water
is in air, so you all if you do is
keep it in the air. But evidence that's recovered underwater
you have to recover it with the water. If you
take it out of the water, things start to break
down relatively quickly. When I'm talking about specifically is fingerprints
(21:39):
if you take something out of the water, and fingerprints
can last for about a week underwater, so the clock
is ticking. But if you remove whether it's a firearm
or the telephone or any piece of evidence, you're going
to want to take it out of the water and
just bring some of the local water with it and
then bring that to your forensics office, and then they're
going to drain the water and then do all the
(22:01):
magic that they do to get the fingerprints off of it.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Okay, Ben Dobrin is joining me, not only dean Professional
Services at Virginia Westley, and he is a dive instructor
and a police diver. Now, Ben, you just taught me
something I didn't know. Number One, when items are taken
out of the water, you have to preserve them in
preferably the ambiance water the water in which they were in,
(22:28):
because the moment they hit the air, it starts to degrade.
For instance, fingerprints. Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star
of a.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Hit series Body Bags.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
With Joe Scott Morgan, I wanted to talk to you
about the gun, but I want to follow up on
what Dobrain is telling us. Yes, prints are preserved underwater
because Prince fingerprints are based on the oil in the
body oil water.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Get it. You can explain better than me. Go ahead.
Speaker 15 (23:00):
Yeah, Our fingerprints come about as a result of the
discharge of the fatty lipids that we have in the
pores that surround the print that's left behind. Remember, we
don't have fingerprints on the tips of our fingers. We
have friction ridges that leave behind fingerprints. So in this
particular case, we believe that this is a weapon that
(23:22):
has a magazine in it, Nancy. So if you have
a magazine, that means that you're going to be pressing
down on the rounds as you're loading the magazine in,
and also you're touching that surface of the magazine. The
magazine is this then fitted into essentially the grip of
this weapon, and it's kind of in a protected space there.
(23:45):
So what Ben is talking about is right on the money.
You have this protected space. If you can keep this
in the water that it comes from and take that
into the lab, they can get around that weapon pretty
quickly raise any kind of latent prints that might be there.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
You did that so eloquently, Joe Scott, I would have
just said, you know, like oil and water don't mix.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
That's exactly what I'm saying here.
Speaker 15 (24:11):
That one more thing about it, please, Jun Yeah, you
think about you know, Ben had mentioned how densely populated,
and all of us have been to Manhattan, how densely
populated this area. This guy and pay very close than
you what I'm about to say. This guy, if he
did this. He ain't the first person to think about
(24:33):
dumping a weapon into that lake, all right, So they
have a herculean task at hand here dealing around, dealing
in this filthy water where they're going to be using
their hands, crawling along. How many other weapons are in there?
Just because you find a firearm merged doesn't mean it's
(24:55):
the firearm that was used.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Ben, I want to follow up with you on this.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
That's a great thing to throw it in Chason Ocean's
when we come back. But this guy did so much planning, Ben,
But I bet he didn't measure the depth of this
lake and has no idea even though it's big, it's
twenty acres, I.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Guarantee you he didn't know that it was just four
to six feet deep.
Speaker 8 (25:22):
And I just found that Google. And as you go
a little bit further north, it looks like there's the
reservoir in the park and that's forty feet deep, So
that is significantly deeper. I mean, it's obviously you can
dive that. It just takes a little bit longer to
get down and get up. But four to six feet
is super easy. If they find something, they can just
pop their head out of the water.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace outside the Manhattan Criminal Courthouse.
Mangioni's fan group, mostly young females, all wore t shirts
in his honor, one that said Luigi's Pizza Brooklyn. Really.
(26:04):
Some were masks in another quote tribute, like the one
he is said to have worn while murdering CEO Health
Boss Brian Thompson, trying to hide his identity. Sometimes she
was there because healthcare is a human right. Oh really? Okay,
(26:26):
Well that's not what murder is about, she says. She
sees Mangioni as a quote symbol.
Speaker 5 (26:34):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
These are the facts.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Nabbed in western Pennsylvania in the Altoona area at a
local McDonald's. He has now been arrested on charges relating
to a gun, sources telling us it was a so
called ghost gun, a gun that has no serial number
that is often put together with a kit the parts
(26:59):
of the gun purchased or obtained separately, a ghost gun
and a silencer, along with a hand written manifesto attacking
the healthcare industry.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Joining me right now is expert Tom Smith, NYPD, detective
thirty years and the star of the gold Shields podcast.
Tom Again, thank you for being with us. We've learned
a lot about the gun. At first, it looks like
it's been manipulated with a homemade silencer on it. We
(27:35):
are now understanding that is not a homemade silencer.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
That this is a weapon that is often used by.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Veterinarians to put down that's a nice word for it, animals.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
The magazine is in the grip.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
And when many people thought that it was jamming and
he was clearing it after each shot, which I thought
he did really calmly and methodically, we now know it
may be a bolt action that has to be manually
cycled after each shot.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
That changes things.
Speaker 9 (28:07):
Tom Smith, Yes, it does, because now he knows he's
proficient in that weapon, knowing every time he fires it
he's going to have to chamber around. And if I
could show you real quick, this is a glock, not
the same weapon that was used, but similar functioning. Every
time he fires that weapon, he'd have to click it
like this in order to chamber around to fire the
(28:28):
next round. And the thing about him is he knows
the weapon because he knows that's coming. It's not a
surprise to him. So he fires around, has to clear it,
fire another round, clear it to chamber around each time,
and he knows the weapon, and he knows that he
is coming and has to do that, and that's why
he stays kind of calm. Any other criminal I've ever
(28:50):
dealt with in New York City, what's a weapons jams,
they throw it away, they run. He knows exactly how
this weapon is being used.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Okay, for once, the movie's got it right, Tom Smith,
because in the movies you always see the person jam
the weapon and they just throw it or they throw
it at the person they're shooting at. Here when you
look at the video, he's walking toward the victim. I
guarantee you, Tom Smith, this guy practiced probably at a
(29:20):
gun range.
Speaker 9 (29:21):
Oh yeah, and you probably have practiced with that weapon,
because like I said, there's a big difference when you're
viewing this, whether someone's panicking or anticipating the movement he's doing.
He knows what he has to do to fire that weapon.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
You know, I want you to explain one more time
for novices out there about the bolt action. We now
don't believe the gun was jamming everybody. We believe it
was a bolt action that has to be manually recycled
after every shot. Could you explain that and demonstrate one
more time, please, Tom.
Speaker 9 (29:53):
Yeah, this is a nine millimeter weapon and the magazine
port is in here just like you mentioned, it's at
the bottom of the handle. So once a round is fired,
he has to manually clear that round to chamber another
round in order to fire it. He'll fire it again
and do the same thing over and over again. So,
like I said, he's very aware of how that gun
(30:15):
he's used and what he used to do to fire.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
You know another issue, Tom Smith, And I'm going to
bring everybody back in in just a second, but Tom,
another feature of this particular gun that is traditionally used
by veterinarians to put down animals is it has.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
A very quiet shot, very quiet shot.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
And the gun we're talking about has a long as
we saw. Could you hold yours up again as a
very long barrel like that? This one even seemed a
little bit longer than yours. And that can be confused
because it looks like a silencer, but it's not.
Speaker 9 (31:00):
It's a long weapon and easier to aim because you
have more of an angle of your target in front
of you. So, like I said, he is very aware
of how this weapon is used. And what it needs
to do to fight is.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
This gun is a specialized gun.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
This guy practiced and practiced, and he had everything planned out.
You know, he practiced with the murder weapon. He didn't
just trot over to Connecticut and buy a gun and
then use it the next day. That did not happen.
Think of the mindset here.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
This is a gun. He brought with him on a bus.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Didn't get on a plane because he couldn't get through
Tsa with a gun, for Pete's sake. And the airlines
know who you are, they have your picture, they have
you every three feet in the airport.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
He didn't want that. He wanted to travel with his gun.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
What criminal that's practiced and practiced and planned and plan
was to use an aligen gun.
Speaker 9 (31:56):
Well, it's hard to trace. That's why if you're using
a normal weapon with a serial number and so forth,
it's easily traced, whether you find it in a month
or a year. This we have no idea whether there's
any serial numbers on it, whether there's any distinguishing markings
on it. So it could be very benign in identifying it.
(32:17):
And that's why he paid.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
What I'm saying, Doctor Bethany Marshall is that this guy
did not just go into a gun shop and buy
the gun just before the murder. If he planned this
methodically to get to Manhattan and to carry out this crime,
staking out the scene the moment he got there November
twenty four to ten pm, he didn't go to bed.
He went to this location where the forum was going
(32:41):
to be held. He didn't buy a new gun.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I think he brought his preferred weapon with him after
practicing for hours on end.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
This guy is upper middle class.
Speaker 7 (32:54):
This guy has money, He has disposable money, and he
had access to a weapon in a professional environment. This
is not somebody who goes to a gun shop with
a fake ID and tries to skip the background check
and gets a gun. This is a man who knows
this weapon. This is also a man who has researched
(33:15):
where this CEO is going to be.
Speaker 14 (33:17):
Early reports on the shooting of Brian Thompson pointed to
a silencer being used or a modern version of a
rare World War two gun. The investigators found themselves looking
into a Connecticut gun store they believe may have sold
the weapon. That lead did not pan out, but now
Chief Detective Joseph Kenny says they are looking into the
use of a veterinary gun being used as the murder weapon.
(33:40):
Kenny says the weapon is normally used on farms and
ranches when an animal needs to be put down. The
animal can be shot with this type of weapon that
doesn't cause a large noise.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
The twenty six year old taking into custody on gun
charges apparently had a gust gun, a silencer, multiple fake IDs,
and a hand written manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
It's not just this moment.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
This moment is the culmination of thousands of law enforcement
man hours like this.
Speaker 16 (34:15):
Amid speculation that the shooter traveled to New York on
a bus that left from Atlanta, NYPD officers have traveled
south for part of their investigation. APD confirmed through a
statement that its officers are assisting the NYPD investigators, whom
arrived in Atlanta on Saturday. Sources say they are searching
through video from the bus station in town and the
(34:36):
others along the route to New York City. Officers are
working to find a name from tickets purchased for a
November twenty fourth Greyhound trip.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
You notice the investigative reporter said, looking for a name,
I guarantee you it's not going to be his name.
Let me just say that.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
The security and verification procedures at the bus station a
lot less stringent than it is at the airport. He
could have gone in with any fake ID and gotten
a bus ticket under a fake name, just like he
had a fake ID that he got out of Jersey,
just like he used a fake ID when he checked
into that youth hostel. And speaking of the youth hostel,
(35:14):
Lauren Colin joining the investigative reporter and star a primetime
crime on YouTube, Lauren, much was made of him flirting
with the receptionist.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
That's not what happened.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
We now know that to check into that hostile and
it's not just at a hostel. That's where they're doing it.
Fancy hotels too. When they say, you know, we need
some ID, look at them. The next time they ask
you that, they look back up at your face, right, So, yeah,
there was a little flirtation.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
You can see him smiling right there.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
That's about ten thousand dollars worth of orthodontia on that
mouth right there.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
But that's another can of worms.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Lauren, So I don't know that the clerk was flirting
with him. She very well may have said, pulled down
your mask. I got to make an I mean, this
is not the rints okay, right.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Right, And you're correct, Nancy.
Speaker 10 (36:06):
I did visit the hostel, and everybody working there was friendly,
not overly friendly. Something I noticed was that there were
multiple cameras throughout the lobby of the hostele. There were
cameras outside of the hostel as well, So.
Speaker 17 (36:22):
My understanding is they most likely have multiple angles of
this guy, of this shooter. I also visited the businesses
surrounding the hostel. I went inside to a local bodega.
I went inside to a dunkin Donuts and they informed
me that they not do any sort of talking about
what they know to anyone but the NYPD, but also
(36:44):
that they turned over footage as well. So I believe
that NYPD is.
Speaker 10 (36:49):
Going through all of the footage they have right now,
which look, it's gonna take some time. This is not
going to happen overnight, but I think there's going to
be a lot more and stills being released of this
guy and what he did during his time in New
York before the shooting.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Straight out to you, Cheryl, McCollum, Let's look at this guy.
Who is he? Based on everything we know right.
Speaker 12 (37:11):
Now, Nancy, I think one thing that's imperative that everybody's
not mentioning is when you talk to the clerk at
the hostel. If this were my case, the first thing
I would have asked her is does he have an accent?
Speaker 1 (37:23):
And that's why I.
Speaker 12 (37:24):
Think again, they are focused on Atlanta. They know where
the bus originated, they know what he sounds like. If
he's from here, they're gonna know it. The other thing
about that weapon, remember we have three words, which means
three possible shellcases, So that gun either jams and we
have an unspent or we have three scent which means
(37:46):
he missed one.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Possibly a ghost gun, a silence, sir, fake IDs, and
a handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Sounds like our guy. But what else led to this
detainment in Pennsylvania?
Speaker 2 (38:06):
To doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renow it, psycho analyst
Way and doctor Bethany, what's your take on it?
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Who is he? Nancy?
Speaker 7 (38:13):
This guy is upper middle class, he's educated.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
He knew to do this hit.
Speaker 7 (38:19):
At the healthcare conference because he's sending a message. If
he did it at a traffic stop or at the
victim's home, it would not send the message. The scribbling
on the ammunition he caught that from researching internal documents
at insurance companies and citing words that employees or claims
(38:41):
processors use to deny claims. I am going to guess
that he had a family member who has denied care,
and because of that denied care, the family member died
and he cannot get over it. So this is although
he looks like a street thug on you know, at
first glance.
Speaker 12 (39:00):
He is not.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
He's got a square chin, perfect teeth, wax between the eyebrows,
eyes going slightly down at the outer edges. He can
change a lot, but there are some things he can't change,
like his fingerprints and DNA.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Joe Scott, Yep.
Speaker 15 (39:22):
You're absolutely right. Those are unique to him, Nancy. And
here's one other thing. I did a little digging one
of this weapon that they keep referring to. That's the
veterinarian euthanasia weapon. They believe might be what's referred to
as a Station six brand weapon. My research revealed that
there are essentially I think either four or five locations
(39:45):
in the metro area of Atlanta where these can be
specifically purchased. And I think that if they believe that
that's what this is and that he transported it, I
think you're on the money here. Relative to getting on
a bus with this thing. He may have picked it
up down there at some point in time, and it's
not a very efficient weapon for doing the task that
(40:07):
he was trying to do, so I don't know, maybe
he was trying to you know, he's not going to
draw attention to himself, like when you buy a suppressor
separately from a weapon, perhaps, and it's not very efficient
because you lose your site picture every time you have
to rotate that bolt on the back of that weapon,
which is what he's doing. He's spending it. I think
(40:31):
that many of the answers that we're looking for are
probably going to rest as well. And this is something
that we will hear a lot about, I believe, with
United Healthcare and their chief security officer, who was actually
hired back in August of twenty twenty three, I want
to know what she knows. I want to know what
her assets know within that business. Are there letters that
(40:52):
have been written, are their lawsuits that have been filed
relative to what doctor Bethany mentioned about healthcare claims that
may have been blown off or maybe they didn't receive
what they wanted, but trust me, the security apparatus within
that company is going to be working on them.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
And of course, along with tot Mom Casey Anthony called
Mam Laurie Valo. Now Luigi Mangioni has his own documentary
called Who Is Luigi Mangoni?
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Do I care who he is?
Speaker 2 (41:26):
What I care about is did he gun down an
unarmed man in broad daylight?
Speaker 1 (41:30):
That's what I care about.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Others of Luigimi and Gioni's female fan base were a
dressed in the same green as the Luigi character in
Super Mario Brothers. Needs alert. This is not a video game.
Brian Thompson is really dead. He really bled out on
the sidewalk, So you know where you can stick your
(41:53):
Luigi video game. These sad sack love lorn females who
obviously aren't working because they're hanging out outside the courthouse
in the middle of the day. Climb quiet. We're here
because we both support Luigi for what he did. Taking
a bite out of corruption of the healthcare industry. Luigi
Mangioni comes from a multi millionaire family. He was born
(42:17):
with not one, but two silver spoons in his mouth.
He went to Ivy League schools, prep high schools. He
had every advantage you can imagine, and was vacationing in
a high rise in Hawaii for months on end before
he hatched the plan to murder the CEO boss. Here's
(42:38):
one woman wearing a free Luigi T shirt. You know
she needs to go get a job and get out
from in front of the courthouse that said, these are
the facts surrounding Brian Thompson's cold blood and murder.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
We wait as justice unfalse.
Speaker 5 (42:55):
Good night for him.
Host
Nancy Grace
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