September 9, 2025 • 45 mins
A mother and father both arrested Friday, August 22 from their Cabazon, California home and booked in the Riverside County jail without bail. Father Jake Haro, 32 and Mother Rebecca Haro, 41, are charged with murder and making a false report in the disappearance of their 7-month-old son Emmanuel Haro. Baby Emmanuel was reported missing Thursday, August 14 around 7:47pm and was last seen wearing a black Nike onesie.
Jake Haro has a public defender who enters a "not guilty" plea for him at the arraignment and Rebecca Haro's court appointed private counsel, Jeff Moore, enters a plea of 'Not Guilty" for her as well. Moore, from the firm Blumenthal and Moore, previously represented Louise and David Turpin - well publicized and high-profile trial for the parents who were sentenced to life in prison for abusing their 13 children. Moore gained attention as the attorney for the Turpin parents accused of abusing, starving, imprisoning and hiding their 13 kids from society by stripping away their rights to learn to read, write, eat, and speak.
The Publics outrage was well documented for the horrific living conditions those innocent Turpin children endured for years, some never even allowed to leave the home. After years in captivity, bravery took a hold, giving courage to escape the home and run for help.
Jake and Rebecca Haro, were brought in separate doors through opposite sides of the courtroom. The couple did not appear to look at each other, Jake Haro kept his eyes on the judge and Rebecca Haro was kept out of direct view by her private attorney appointed by the court. After less than 10 minutes of the hearing, the Haro's were taken back to their jail cells where they will sit until September 16 for their "Felony Settlement Conference", commonly called the "pre-trial hearing". Jake and Rebecca Haro' s arraignment is not being streamed but cameras are in the courtroom.
If you have any information or have seen baby Emmanuel Haro, please call 911 or your local sheriff's office. Direct telephone numbers are listed on graphics during the video show. Thank you
DESCRIPTION: 7-Month-Old baby boy
-
- HAIR: brown EYES: brown
- HEIGHT: 2’0" :WEIGHT: 21 lbs
Joining Nancy Grace today,
- Philip Dubé - Former Court-Appointed Counsel, Los Angeles County Public Defenders: Criminal & Constitutional Law, Forensics & Mental Health Advocacy, X: PhilipCDube, IG: PhilipDube, YouTube: PhilipDube3922
- Dr. John Delatorre - Licensed psychologist and mediator, specializing in forensic psychology, psychological consultant to Project Absents: a non-profit organization that searches for missing persons, resolutionfcs.com, Twitter, IG, and TikTok: @drjohndelatorre
- Steve Fischer - Missing Persons Private Investigator, Search & Rescue Specialist, & Owner of Search Investigations, website: search investigations.org, Facebook: SearchInvestigations, X: @SF_Investigates
- Alli Neal - Co-Founder, Revved Up Kids, fighting to protect kids from sexual abuse and trafficking, revvedupkids.org, instagram, Facebook & Twitter: @RevvedUpKids
- Dr. Eric Eason - Board Certified Forensic Pathologist, consultant, Instagram: @eric_a_eason, Facebook: Eric August Eason, LinkedIn: Eric Eason, MD
- Katy Forrester -A) Assistant Exclusives Editor at The U.S. Sun, covering true crime and showbiz, website: www.the-sun.com, X: @katyshowbix
- Dave Mack - Crime Stories Investigative Reporter
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
As we go to air, sources are saying why missing
baby Emmanuel will never be found? This as the killer
dad suspect Jay Harrow, begs for help staging baby Emmanuel's kidnap.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to
thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Where is seven month old baby Emmanual questions swirling? Did
the baby disappear nine days before the alleged kidnap when
mommy was attacked in the parking lot at a sporting
goods store? Was the baby really missing nine days before that?
(00:54):
Could he be alive? We haven't found a body yet,
there is baby Emmanuel? And why are sources stating this
seven month old infant child will quote never be found?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It all starts here.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Just before eight pm Thursday night, Sam Bernardino Sheriffs arrive
and begins searching the strip mall and parking lot. Canine
units are dispatched to the scene, as well helicopters overhead.
Sam Bernardino Sharf's department joined by neighboring Riverside County deputies
to aid in a comprehensive search that stretches through the night.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
This was preventable in numerous ways.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Todave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave, thank you for
being with us. The mom says that she goes to
Big five as a sporting good store to get her
other son of mouthguard so he can play sports. That
she gets out of the vehicle to change baby Emmanuel's dipee.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
She hears one word from a male or lah, and
then she's attacked from behind. Hey, she's attack from behind.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Let's see her black eye that she got from that
tech from behind.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
That when she wakes up, the baby is gone. Is
that correct? Yes?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
No, Yes, that is correct.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
So then she goes into the store when she comes
to and ask has anybody seeing the baby?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Do I have that right?
Speaker 5 (02:18):
So far?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
You are correct, okay, Dave Matt.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Then the dad shows up on the same Listen, Jake.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Harrow shows up and bought a clothing negative at Big
Five and talks to assistant manager Liz Masa the morning
after his son is kidnapped. She says he was trying
to appear upset, trying to cry, rubbing his eyes, breathing
heavy but no tears as he asks for help finding
his infant son Harow is wearing a hoodie and his
ninety degrees and the manager is shocked to see that
(02:47):
Haro is just walking around the parking lot, not out
searching for his son.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Mesa says, it just felt off.
Speaker 6 (02:54):
He just came in and asked if we had any
information or please just set it. No, but there was
no tears, exaggerated kind of facial expressions.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
That's from our friends at us Son. Okay, I want
to analyze what we've just heard. Dave mack Now, this
is a woman that works at the clothing store next
to Big five. Let's see Big five Sporting Goods again.
It's a little strip mall. And according to this witness,
Liz Mezza, the assistant manager, Harrow comes in asking for help.
(03:31):
Tell me exactly what we learned from her, Dave mac Well.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
She says that when he came by that he was
trying to look upset, He was trying to breathe heavy,
he was rubbing his eyes, he was trying to act
like he was very concerned, and she could tell it
was an act because it just wasn't real. There were
no tears, first of all, but second of all, he
wasn't dressed appropriately for somebody who's going to be out
(03:54):
looking for their son on this particular day.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
He's wearing a hoodie.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
You point that out because you know this is August
in California and it's high so he had no business
to be out looking for his son. And why is
he looking in that parking lot? That was the other
question she pointed out. They closed the seven o'clock. Okay,
their parking lot is absolutely empty, right next door to
the Big k Or it's got a parking lot, and
(04:18):
they're open a little later, but there's not a lot
of activity, Nancy, And that's what she was trying to
point out is that they obviously did not know where
they were when they're putting this story out there, because
it doesn't match the geography, doesn't match the area they're
in at all.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Okay, you know what, Dave mac I think you've gone
too far out on the limb, claiming that just because
the dad was wearing a hoodie that somehow he's quote
you sound like Prince Andrew who said I couldn't have
molested Virginia Giffrey in the Epstein case because those are
my traveling clothes, right, So you're saying this was all
(04:55):
wrong because he was.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Wearing a hoodie.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Okay, if please don't say that any more, don't tell
that to anybody else, Okay, because it's raising a lot
of questions about your reporting. But that said, the other
part I found really interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
He came in asked if we had any info. If so,
please let me know.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
No tears, just exaggerated facial expressions, rubbing his eyes, breathing heavily. Okay,
that's interesting because you know what to doctor John Delatori.
Delatory is a renowned psychologist, a mediator.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
His specialties forensic psychology.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Doctor Delatory, I know that this woman that works at
the Beta clothing store beside Big Five is not a
shrink like you. She is not a nonverbal message expert.
She's not like a jury consultant that watches all the
(05:58):
jurors if they're ticks in their quirks, to see if
they would be good or bad on the jury for
their client. But she is a regular person like most
of us that when you get an odd sense about somebody,
you better listen.
Speaker 7 (06:14):
Now.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
A lot of guys, especially men, say, oh, you know,
that's just a woman, a nervous woman, reading too much
into it. I think hunches are very valid, and I
believe that they are born of thousands of years of evolution.
(06:36):
That you pick up things you don't even realize you're
seeing or hearing or feeling or smelling.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I mean, it could be anything.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
So the fact that he's wearing a hoodie, I don't care,
but her feeling that it quote just felt off.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
I want to follow up on that deleatory.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 8 (06:56):
I mean, no, she's not a mental health professional, but
she is a huge human being, a human being working
in the service industry, so she interacts with people all
of the time, and all of these people she never
knows who's going to be coming in and for what reason,
and what their day to day experiences are. She knows
about this case and is expecting to experience something coming
(07:17):
off of this man, and she doesn't get it. And
that's already a red flag, right. Her intenna is already up,
So now she's going to be looking at more things.
What are the other inconsistencies that are going on? When
she tells herself, look, if this was my child, this
is how I would be comparing those emotional states to
the person that she's seeing right in front of her.
(07:38):
Are inconsistent, and that's what makes him just seem more suspect.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Okay, brace yourself.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Philip Dubay joining US veteran trial lawyer out of the
La jurisdiction jump in de Bay.
Speaker 9 (07:49):
I think it's ridiculous to assume that parents who are
in search of a missing child have to follow some
type of a blueprint, almanac or connect the dots in
some way, shape or form to suggest that they're not
behaving the way parents who might be in despair would display.
Because if you think about it, this is something that
(08:10):
may never happen during the course in the scope of
running a business, and certainly during the course in the
scope of raising children.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
So I don't know what anybody's talking about in assuming
that there is the right way to.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Behave but.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
On a prior program that you don't have any children.
So what do you know about what people are going
through raising children? Because I've told you what happened when
John David went missing, and it's always r us wait,
babies are us. I did not try to make myself cry.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
It's self. Preservation is preservation of your family.
Speaker 9 (08:40):
You don't have to be a parent to know that
a kid is missing and that you can kind of
pitch in and help find the child.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
That's absurd.
Speaker 9 (08:48):
And to suggest that either you know how you're dressed,
how you behave, whether or not you're crying, should follow
that playbook and determining whether or not you're up to
no good, I think is an unfair assessment.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Okay, I knew you would say that straight out to
Allie Neil joining US co founder revd up Kids.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
She has been fighting.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
For years to protect children from sex abuse, trafficking, and
other forms of abuse. Allie, thank you for being with us.
Why is debate saying that? Because you have dealt with
so many parents that are suffering because they can't find
their child. And I know defense attorneys say there is
(09:30):
no playbook, but actually there is a play book. I've
never seen a parent that did not show some sort
of emotion when they're looking for a lost child.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Allie, I would agree.
Speaker 10 (09:44):
With you, Nancy, but I also would agree that everybody
has different ways that they show or hide emotion. We
can't read his mind. And you know the store clerk, Yes,
she was observing what she believed was fake behavior, but no,
(10:05):
that's going to hold up in court. His behavior when
he walked into that store to ask about Oh.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Well, right, right right, I don't know what you're saying.
It won't quote hold up in court.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I mean the fact that he suggesting if this ever
goes to trial, the jury cannot hear evidence of his
demeanor at the clothing store because that's just past Awkwards.
They will hear that, and they will wonder, like we are,
why was he trying to make himself christ.
Speaker 10 (10:32):
They can hear it, but I think the defense would
turn around and say, you weren't in his head. You
don't know how he responds to, you know, crisis. Some
people just shut down. Some people you know. So it
feels like speculations.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Okay, Alan, okay, Alie. Steve Fisher, let's respond to that.
Steve Fisher joining us Missing Person's private investigator search and
rescue specialists. You can find him at Search Investigations dot org. Steve,
you have made a living. This is what you do
day in day out. You find missing people, especially children.
(11:09):
You go through all sorts of searches. You do all
terrain searches. You've overseen water searches, you've overseen dump site searches.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Name it, you've done it.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
So Steve ali'neil agrees with Philip Dubay that parents cannot
act upset at all when their child is missing. In fact,
in this case, the witness says he was trying to
make himself cry.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Now, I find that very odd behavior.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
The hoodie doesn't mean anything to me, but the demeanor
and what you're about to find out about them just
hanging around in the parking lot, not actively looking like,
what do they think baby Emanuel is going to walk
back into the parking lot.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
He's seven months old. But making yourself cry or trying
to that's just wrong. I don't know why they're saying
that that's normal.
Speaker 7 (12:09):
I've never seen. I always see frantic, you know, people
that are just you know, have no control of their
emotions actually, and that they both seem to kind of
have that same reaction to me, if it's kind of
force the stage and it was, you know, look like
a more of a press opportunity.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
You know what.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
We have barely touched the tip of the iceberg, So
I'm going to move us forward.
Speaker 6 (12:34):
Listen, the baby have been kidnapped, they would have been
out looking for them, saying with like my sisters with
their kids. You know, it's just not something to just
hang around in a parking lot and then.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Just be mingling with your family.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (12:46):
We close at seven, So for them to say after
at seven forty seven, the whole parking lots and do
basically by that time.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Back to Dave Mack, that is exactly what you were saying.
If there had been a baby kidnapped, they would have
been out looking for them. They were just hanging around
the parking lot, like hanging out with a family, like
tailgating in the parking lot.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
She goes on to State and that's for our friends
at us Son.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
We close at seven, so for them to say it
happened at seven forty seven, the whole parking lot is empty.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Is that what you were saying earlier?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Dave mac explain, Okay, not exactly, Nancy. The store next
door to the Big Five actually closes at seven, and
their parking lot is adjacent to the Big Five. Big
Five stays open later than that store next door, But
for the most part, the parking lots are fairly empty,
certainly empty next to Big Five, and the Big Five
(13:42):
is finning out. There's not a lot of activity there
after seven o'clock at night. That's what the manager was
trying to say.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Okay, got it, guys. It goes on from there. In
the last hours, a lot happening in the case, a
lot happening in the search for baby Emmanuel.
Speaker 11 (13:59):
Listen appropriate to have a press conference, because it was
the defendants in this case that had a press conference first, and.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
They did so in order to tell the.
Speaker 11 (14:10):
Public, the media, and ultimately law enforcement that their child
had been kidnapped.
Speaker 8 (14:15):
I was going to get the diaper and somebody said
oil and I don't locome right here on the floor,
and I didn't see Manuel.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
It was a healthy baby.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
He was crawling, he was kicking, and he was he
was playing with his toys.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Whoever took our sun, please give him back.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
I'm watching his demeanor as he's speaking.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
His voice seemingly is cracking, but he's not crying and
he doesn't look distressed at all. That's for my friends
at KTLA and ABC seven. You were first hearing Mike
Hestrin from Riverside County Das office stating they were having
a press conference because the mom and dad had already
(15:06):
had their own press conference with me. Special guest doctor
Eric Esen Board certified forensic pathologist and you can find
him on Facebook at Eric august Esen, Doctor Eason.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
How can she explain that she was attacked from behind
but yet has a black eye on the front of
her face.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
Yeah, it could have fallen forward, hit something. She could
have spun around after being an attack from behind and
been punched in the face. Those are all possibilities.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Day mag I want you to explain to me what
Big five employees state about the mom coming in earlier
before Baby Emanuel goes missing to state that her car
had been vandalized.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
That's exactly what happened. She went to the store and asked, hey,
She actually said, my car has been broken into in
your parking lot. I'm just wondering, ga'la, have any surveillance
cameras pointed in this direction at all? That might have
been able to capture my car in the parking lot
and can you show me where it is? And she
was able to find out exactly what they had for
(16:12):
surveillance in the parking lot, so she already knew ahead
of time. And by the way, they don't live in
that area. It would have been out of the way
for her to be at that store any day other
than when she was there.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Dave mac When do they say that that happened, that
the mom came in stating her car had been vandalized
and asking if there were cameras, surveillance cameras on any
of the stores.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
This is one of those stories, Nancy, where we've been
told that she came in three days earlier. Since they
don't have any cameras, we can't actually find video proof
that she did that, Nancy, but that is what has
been said by employees of the store.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Well, Steve Fisher, wouldn't it be a matter of getting
her cell phone and tracking the cell phone to determine
if it had been in the parking lot two or
three days earlier.
Speaker 7 (17:01):
Absolutely, that's something that's celebrated. Can do a celebrate on
her phone. They'll be able to find out that information.
And there's also but I don't think she knew, is
there's lots of other surveillance cameras that are pointing, that
are showing that parking lot from across the street and
other ways. You know, I actually spoke, I actually went
to the Big Five and spoke to the employees, and
that witnessed her come in and they clearly, you know,
(17:25):
remember her coming in and it was suspicious to them.
And then when she came in with the kidnapp claim,
that's immediately what they thought of. They're like, this lady
was here, and what they said to me was earlier
in the month, although this happened fairly early in the month.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
So okay, wait a minute, Wait a minute, Steve Fisher,
explain exactly what the employees told you.
Speaker 7 (17:43):
Sure, I went into the Big Five. I was there
the day after the kidnapping claims started that happened, and
they told me that she had come in and asked
She had said that her car had been broken into
and she wanted to know if there was surveillance because
she needed it for the insurance claim, and they told
her that they did not have exterior cameras on the
(18:06):
building and that was it.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
You know.
Speaker 7 (18:10):
Of course at that time, they don't know what's about
to happen a few days later, but that's what.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
They told me.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Phillip Debay, what about that? Quite the co inky dink
right debate.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Don't you just hate it when your clients case the
joint days ahead of time to find out at their
surveillance video I would be interested to find out if
she really filed an insurance claim when her car was
quote burglarized?
Speaker 1 (18:35):
What about it? Dobay?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
And she goes back to the same place and gets
attacked a second time, same parking lot, same car, same everything.
Speaker 9 (18:46):
If I were defending her, I would put those store
employees through the vegimatic. I would just really left, right
and center, just cross examine them like they have never
been crossed before. And I would want to know just
how many employees are saying that about my quote unquote client.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
So, for example, this was your.
Speaker 9 (19:05):
Search and rescue debut, wasn't it. I'll bet you you
had checked the lighting before you spoke. You shut up
all the fluorescence and make sure you had bright light
and number two pancakes to rub on your nose in
your floor.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Even talking about first time, what are you that they're exaggerating?
Speaker 5 (19:24):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Okay to Steve Fisher.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Does he look like a camera crew to you? It
seems like a regular guy to me. He goes in
and talks to them about what happened, and they volunteer
and not just one of them under You can take
Fisher down, okay, putting debate back up debate. To believe
your theory, all of the employees that opened up to
(19:47):
Steve Fisher would all have to be in on it,
that all have to be part of a conspiracy to
lie about missus Harrow, that all have to be in
on it to miss Harrow that they've never met before this,
They don't know her.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
There's no grudge, there's no extra grind. But yet they're
all willing to lie to a guy that just walks
through the front door and asks, what happened? Is that
your story?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
They're all getting together to lie on Rebecca Herro Well, Philip.
Speaker 9 (20:19):
Do they and his personal capacity would absolutely buy it.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
But if I were defending her, I.
Speaker 9 (20:24):
Would do whatever I could to make it look like
they all put their heads together to take the lady down.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Wait a minute, that's your vegematic that you're bragging about.
I'm going to put the witnesses to a vegematic.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah, okay, number one.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Nobody uses a vegematic anymore unless you I shot my hand,
of course, but everybody else uses.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
A what do you say?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Queensin r All right, So that said, that's your vegematic.
You're going to accuse them of having their star turn
with Steve Fisher, who is not a camera person.
Speaker 9 (21:01):
If I were defending them, absolutely, I would do whatever
I could to challenge their perceptions, their recollections, and their
incentive to want to take the lady down, and you'd
be amazed time debate.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
You need a search, You need to search one, to
search all the employees home and find that pancake makeup
you're talking about. This is the vats and vats and
pots of pancake makeup and heavy powder that they were
going to apply for the moment that Steve Fisher happens
to walk through their door.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
They were ready for that. Okay, what about this debate.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
In the early stages of the investigation, detectives challenge Rebecca
Harrow on inconsistencies in her story and she stops cooperating.
Both parents are asked to take a polygraph, but Jake
Harrow refuses the polygraph without his lawyer.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
President.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Okay, so I guess you think that's normal behavior too.
When your child goes missing and your wife is attacked
in a parking lot, you won't take a polly because
of what? What are you afraid of?
Speaker 9 (22:00):
System sees imperfect, unreliable science, and we've seen this before.
Remember when the medal in McKay baby was abducted in Portugal.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
The parents would not make me call Debet. Matt Lan
magan got.
Speaker 9 (22:14):
The name Mattie McCann. Remember that the parents would not
submit to the polygraph. Not because it was consciousness of guilt.
It was consciousness of scientific imperfection that was the problem.
Can you imagine then being detained and held based on
imperfect science?
Speaker 5 (22:31):
No, So what do you do?
Speaker 9 (22:32):
You clam up, You ask for a lawyer, particularly in
a situation when you're being confronted with quote unquote inconsistencies
and you have turned a search and rescue into an
adversarial proceeding. I would have clammed up as well and
asked for counsel or.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
Just remained silent.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Crime Stores with Nancy Grace, I Fisher, I believe that
you know Mark Class. He's the gold standard.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
His daughter Polly was kidnapped, sex assaulted, and murdered by
Richard Allen. She was having to spend the night party
in her mom's home when police came to search Mark
Class's place. He opened the door and said, here, take
my fingerprints, search my place, search my car, search my office,
(23:29):
do whatever you want, then you can move on to
find out who took my daughter. Okay, he was willing
to take a polygraph. I find it very odd that,
faced with your child disappearing and a violent attack on
your wife in a parking lot, that you refuse a
polygraph and lawyer up, I got a problem with that.
Speaker 5 (23:50):
I agree.
Speaker 7 (23:51):
I mean, if a child goes missing, even if the
public might be throwing accusations around, I mean, as a parent,
if you have no guilt, and I think it's the
last thing going through your mind, is you know, the
failing a polograph. You think they would be willing to
submit to whatever would help investigators. And if the public's
(24:13):
making those claims, then you have to tune that out
if you truly got nothing to do with it. But
in this case, that's not what we saw. They told
us they were cooperating. That's what the parents told the news,
But it doesn't seem like it because at the time
I was there, they were in the house the whole time,
they weren't out searching, and it doesn't sound like they
were truly cooperating with authorities.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
In the Southern California News Group, Rebecca Harrow denies or
she went to the Big Five and you Kaipa days
before she reported the kidnapping and told employees her car
had been burgularized in the parking lot and asked if
the business had surveillance cameras. The Sheriff's department has yet
to address the claims.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Little Emmanuel was first reported missing on August fourteenth.
Speaker 10 (24:54):
They have searched two counties and they have still not
found this.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Little way baby Emmanuel, just seven months old, reportedly goes
missing out of a Big five Sporting Goods parking lot
there with his mother.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
This is a seven month old baby that they are
looking in the roughest terrain in the world.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Board and then bring out.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
The baby's father and he doesn't even boy to offer
any kind of assistance, any kind of help.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Tonight's sources stating they know why baby Emmanuel will never
be found. This as witnesses state, the dad, Jake Harrow,
asks for help in staging baby Emmanuel's kidnap.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
But there's another baby taking center stage. Listen.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
The sister of Emmanuel was so badly injured at just
ten weeks she was left unable to see, talk, or walk.
The little girl is being raised by her adoptive mother,
who renamed the child promised Faith at just ten weeks old.
Traumise had an acute fractured rib, healing fractures of six ribs,
(26:04):
a skull fracture, a brain hemorrhage, swelling of the neck,
a healing fractured leg bone, and nutritional neglect. Carro and
his former partner Vanessa Alvina were both charged with child
of cruelty in twenty eighteen tow h Horrow, pleading guilty.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Doctor Eric Ason, the injuries to maybe Emmanuel's sister are overwhelming,
and according to reports, she has cerebral palsy because of
repeat abuse.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
How can that happen? How do you get cerebral palsy
from beatings?
Speaker 5 (26:41):
Well, it's trauma to the brain, and it's a blunt trauma.
So a solid object struck the head, or the head
struck a solid object, or some combination of the two.
And so everything indicates that with the rib fractures and
all the other fractures on the body in different stages
of healing, that they were inflicted by another individual. And
that's how the cerebral pulsey can occur in a child
(27:01):
due to in treat of the brain.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
And what's so disturbing, Dave Mac, is that a.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Judge allowed Jake Harrow, the father in this case that
reportedly asked for help from store employees to set up
his baby's kidnap, he got to walk free.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
He walked free. Isn't that true?
Speaker 2 (27:26):
The judge said, Hey, I'm gonna do you a favorite. Judge,
Dwight W. Moore suspended Harrow's prison sentence and granted straight probation.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
What happened, Dave Mac.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
He spent a couple of weeks taking up trash on
the side of the road Nancy in a work release program.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Defense attorney Philip Debay, the baby cannot walk talk here.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
See he got probation. I guess you think his lawyer
did a good well.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Of course he did.
Speaker 9 (28:01):
I mean you cannot claim that that attorney was ineffective.
I think the real question, though, is why the prosecution
wasn't pounding its fists on council table demanding that this
judge and post prison, or why they didn't file what
we call an affidavit of prejudice against the judge and
you get moved to a different court.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
It's my understanding.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
So somehow you're gonna not you're somehow trying to blind
the prosecutor for this.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Well, I've got er Bryan frank Baum for you. Listen.
Speaker 11 (28:32):
J Carrow pled straight up to the court, which sometimes
reporters get this wrong, and you call it a plea bargain.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Judges are not allowed to plea bargain. The defendants can plee.
Speaker 11 (28:43):
Bargain with the prosecutor. But when a defendant pleads up
to the court, they plead to everything that they've been
charged with, and they're essentially throwing themselves on the mercy.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Of the court.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
It's called a blind plea in most jurisdictions. What that
means is the prosecutor would only agree to a plea
bargain for serious jail time. The defense wouldn't take it,
and so they go to the judge blind so to speak,
and throw themselves on the mercy of the judge. The
prosecutor disagreed, the prosecutor wanted.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Hard jail time. It's the judge, Judge Dwight W.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Moore.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
They went to the prosecutor, Yeah, you know what, screw
you and the horse she rode in on.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I'm gonna give it a straight probation. Even though he blinded.
The baby girl. He made her death dumb and mute,
and she can't walk and she has cerebral palsy. But hey,
he actually said from the bench, I'm gonna give you
a break. I'm gonna do you a favor.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
The prosecutor was doing a back flip. Listen.
Speaker 11 (29:53):
In this case, a judge here in Riverside County happened
to have been a visiting judge from Semberdy Dental County,
gave mister Harrow a suspended sentence, which means that instead
of sending him to prison, he chose to give him
probation and suspend prison time sort of over his head, meaning.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
That if you violated his probation, he would then go
to prison.
Speaker 11 (30:18):
My prosecutor in the courtroom objected to that and said,
on the record, we object. We think it's a prison case.
You should send him to prison. And the judge decided
that mister Harrow deserved an extra break and gave him
probation and basically one hundred and eighty days of work release.
That decision was absolutely outrageous. Mister Horror should have been
(30:42):
in prison at the time that this crime happened, and
if that judge had done his job as he should
have done. A manual would be alive today.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
That is Mike hestrin the Riversai County District Attorney saying,
we beg for jail time, we demand jail time, and
Judge Dwight W.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Moore threw us out of court and gave this guy
straight probation. And what did he do. He goes into
a store asking them to help him.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Give an alibi, help him create a story that his child,
his other child, was kidnapped.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
That is the woman.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
That is the person, Ali Neil that you said, Hey,
there's no playbook for a parent who's lost a child.
So maybe he was crying, maybe he was really upset.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
That's the guy he had already beaten into oblivion.
Speaker 10 (31:43):
Okay, I want to backtrack, because you were asking specific
questions about his demeanor in the store and the clerk's
perception of his demeanor in the store.
Speaker 12 (31:53):
Do I think he did it one hundred percent? Yes,
I absolutely think he did it, And I completely agree
that he should already be in jail for the other
child to beat. So yeah, this whole story just smacks
of this wild, made up lie.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
And I hope the wife is Jennie Neil. I hope
she's sitting down.
Speaker 10 (32:16):
Allie, I'm sitting down.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Are you sitting down? Simple? See you just sitting down? Well,
you know you might need to lay down for what
you're about to hear, Allie Neil.
Speaker 11 (32:25):
At the end of their sentence, he told Jake, I'm
giving you a big break today.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Don't mess it up.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
But I want to point something out to you.
Speaker 11 (32:32):
I want to read to you the injuries. The child's
name is Carolina. She's still alive today, but she is
permanently bedridden. She has permanent damage cerebral palsy that is
a result of long term child to.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Beat crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
She got out of the vehicle to change Baby Emmanuel's
dip and she was attacked from behind.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
But when she woke up from the attack, the baby
is gone.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
No money is taken. There's no sex attack, no carjack,
just the baby. No surveillance, No witnesses saw this. How
can you look at the disappearance of baby Emmanuel without
factoring in what Jake Harrow did to this baby's sister,
(33:38):
who was left forever in basically a vegetative state because
of him. He pled guilty it's not a question. Do
bab will probably make it sound like, well, maybe it
didn't happen. He pled guilty under oath in a court
of law. He rolled the dice and he hit the
jackpot because the judge gave him straight probation. And what
(34:01):
does he do, According to reports, he tries to get
store employees to help him stage a kidnap.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
The kidnap up another baby, baby Emmanual. But before we
move on, I want you.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
To hear the Riverside County District Attorney Mike Hestrin recount
what happened to baby Emmanual's sister.
Speaker 11 (34:23):
I want to read to you the injuries that were
presented to in court to this judge at the time of.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
That previous prosecution.
Speaker 11 (34:33):
A cute fracture of the posterior left rib, fifth rib,
healing fractures, healing fractures of the posterior lateral sixth, seventh
and tenth through twelfth ribs, healing fractures of the sixth
and ninth through twelfth ribs, partial bone fracture of the skull,
brain hemorrhage, significant prevertical soft tissue swelling of the neck,
(34:58):
and a healing tibia fract of the right leg.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
You know, when you hear the district attorney reading off
the injuries to the baby girl who was, you know,
just weeks.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Old, you can numb yourself.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
But if you think about what he is saying, if
you let your mind go to what he is saying,
what was done to the baby is brutal, it's hateful,
it's downright evil. What was done to this baby girl.
(35:36):
And now baby Emmanuel is missing. Now, according to sources,
baby Emmanuel will.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Never be found.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Borrow's next door neighbor is saying the body of Emmanuel
Horrow will never be found after hearing police had Horrow
out by the sixty freeway. The neighbor says she can
hear the coyotes at night like they are in the
front yard, and says she doesn't think the remains will
be found. Quote one something to be found. I'm pretty
sure you could find a way. Sad to hear, but true.
(36:07):
If you're a local here, you know that baby's gone.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Hey, Mac, explain to me what the neighbors are saying.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
They're pointing out, Nancy that while it seems the area
that you're talking about with Riverside and San Bernardino Counties.
There are a lot of areas that are very rural, Okay,
a lot of underbrush and coyotes. The coyotes are wild
and they can hear them at night, and as the
neighbor point, they're so loud, they're so they sound like
(36:36):
they're right here in the front yard. And that's what
she's pointing out. There are so many areas where if
that's what your goal was, to get rid of something
that nobody would find, you could do it in this
area around the house within two or three miles could
be totally lost.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
I want to go to Steve Fisher, joining us a
search and rescue specialist, start to investigations. Steve, if that's
true what the neighbor is saying, that a manual's.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Body will never be found.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
If the body had been disposed of out in one
of these many, many open and desolate areas, could cadaver
dogs find even a trace a part of the baby,
assuming coyotes had gotten to them first.
Speaker 7 (37:29):
Yes, so, and listen, this is a huge, vast open
area and I do a lot of searches out in
this area.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
And these are scavenger animals.
Speaker 7 (37:36):
It's not just coyotes. But there is a lot of
mountain lion in that area, and they're opportunistic animals and
they will feed upon stuff like this, but they scatter
the bones, they'll use them as salt lick sometimes, and
I understand such a young child has softer bones than
an adult. However they'll it does actually they'll spread those remains.
(37:58):
That actually gives a wider area for then humans or
canines to come in and search. And there still is
going to be you know, a material left where the
canines can pull sense, but it's not going to happen
if they're not out searching. And that's you know where
I have a problem lately, is I don't see these
(38:19):
searches happening. But yes, even if these predatory animals, we
see it a lot in desert searches, and it does happen,
but they do leave, you know, remains behind.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
There is of course a remote chance baby Harrow is
still alive, that Emmanuel is sold or given away. But again,
when you don't know a horse, look at his track record,
Doctor John Delatory. We know that Jake Harrow has a
history of beating infants. So it makes me believe that
(38:53):
the neighbor could be right, doctor Delatory.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 8 (38:56):
I mean I just just listening to the list of
is that that baby Carolina suffered. I mean I almost
want to cry. And you're right, Nancy. You know, the
best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, and we
see someone who engage in statistic violent behavior against vulnerable children,
(39:17):
and so more than likely if something could have happened,
and the same thing would have happened to baby Emmanuel.
Speaker 5 (39:23):
So I I.
Speaker 8 (39:25):
Are there other things that could have happened, Sure, but
the most likely thing, the most probable thing, is that
these two parents engaged in some nefarious act and baby
Emmanuel is now gone and we're struggling to try to
find him.
Speaker 5 (39:39):
You know that.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Let's clarify when you say gone, you mean did I
do mean dead?
Speaker 5 (39:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
In the last days, Jake Harrow and why Rebecca Harrow
are in court.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Jake Harrow has a public defender who entered a not
guilty believe for him at a Raymond and Rebecca Harrow's
court appointed private counsel, Jeff Moore, inereda.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
Believe not guilty for her.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
More from the firm Bloomenthal and Moore previously represented Louise
and David Turpin, the parents serving a life sentence now
for abusing their thirteen children for years in court. Deegaro's
wearing a jail issued read jumpsuit indicating he is not
in general population for his own protection, and Rebecca har
wearing blue jail uniform for the same reasons.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
So they're getting protected from the other inmates. I got
a question, Tobey, why do you hire a defense attorney
that lost the durping case?
Speaker 9 (40:31):
Great question, and I happen to know who defense counsel is.
He is private, but he's court appointed, so he was
not privately retained. He was appointed by the court at
taxpayer expense. This young couple is impoverished. They don't have
a potter or window to send on private counsel.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Are you trying to make me feel sorry for them
because they can't afford a high price defense attorney like you?
They got a high price defense attorney. His name is
Jeff Moore and he's with Bloominthal and Moore and a
also case Louise and David Turpin.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
They got life.
Speaker 9 (41:02):
The firm has a contract with Riverside County to pick
up all conflict cases where the public defenders declares a
legal conflict of interest. So they are on an annual
contract where they're basically paid a lump sum to represent
everybody brought in on conflicts during the contractual period.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Well, they landed in a pot of honey yet again
getting a vetterman trial lawyer.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
That's not all we hear, Dave Mac, that these two
demons from hell that are presumed innocent until proven guilty
are wearing special jumpsuits which means they're not in ginpop
general population.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
Why well, it's for their own protection because of the charges, Nancy,
at least that's what we're being led to believe, because
you know, we all have heard jail house stories of
how people who hurt children are treated with the way
they should be treated. It's that's for their own protection,
Dave Mac.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Those two turpins are alive and well, and you and
I got to pay for three hots and a cot
for those two.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Again, demon straight straight from hell. They're from hell.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
All those children abused, starved, beaten, kept literally in chains
in closets. Now the question is are these two cats
and a barrel going to turn on each other? And
I've got an indicator they will.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Jake and Rebecca o'haro were brought in through separate doors
at opposite sides of.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
The court room.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
They did not appear to look at each other, and
Jake Carrow kept his eyes on the judge. Rebecca Harrow
was kept out of direct view by her private attorney
appointed by the court, Jeff Moore from Bloomin Dalen Moore.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Don't you just love it, DBA when your client and
the co defendant won't even look at each other in court.
I've seen them sitting right beside each other.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
In court and they look the other way. They won't
even look at each other.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
A state's witness, and I think the state's witness is
going to be Rebecca Harrow. I hope she doesn't get
a sweetheart deal to testify against her husband.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
State you don't need her, You don't need her to
prove this case. What about it debate.
Speaker 9 (43:14):
I think you're absolutely correct, and I've said it from
day one. I think most Rebecca was an accessory after
the fact, meaning she was not complicit in the underlying homicide,
but may have had a hand in covering it up
so that her husband wasn't arrested. Still a crime. The
legal goodness for Rebecca is that that only carries three
years at halftime and does not have a lifetop.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
So if in exchange she testifies against me for three years,
I can.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Listen curious, are you actually on something? This woman is
not getting three years and walking free. That's not happening.
The state doesn't even need her. You don't think she
was there when Baby Emmanuel was killed. She took court
in the whole thing.
Speaker 9 (43:57):
What proof do you have when she had whatroof is
there that she had a hand in the murder if
there even was a murder.
Speaker 4 (44:04):
Seriously, it's my understanding the evidence saying.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
If there even was a murder, Did you just say that, Yes,
you're losing a lot of credibility right now to Bay
I could understand as.
Speaker 9 (44:15):
To him, But what do you have on her other
than she's got a black guy in a parking lot
saying somebody said, oh lot kidnapped the kidden.
Speaker 4 (44:22):
Purportedly drove off.
Speaker 9 (44:24):
Right now, you've got nothing saying that she had a
hand in that murder, if there was a murder.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
We wait as justice unfolds.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
If you know or think you know anything about baby Emmanuel,
please dial nine zero nine three eight seven eight three
one three repeat nine zero nine three eight seven eight
three one three And now we remember an American hero,
Officer Mark Reynolds, South Carolina State Police, killed in the
(44:54):
line of duty, leaving behind a grieving wife, Brandy, and
three daughters. American hero Officer Mark Reynolds Nancy Grace signing
off goodbye friend.
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
As we go to air, sources are saying why missing
baby Emmanuel will never be found? This as the killer
dad suspect Jay Harrow, begs for help staging baby Emmanuel's kidnap.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to
thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Where is seven month old baby Emmanual questions swirling? Did
the baby disappear nine days before the alleged kidnap when
mommy was attacked in the parking lot at a sporting
goods store? Was the baby really missing nine days before that?
(00:54):
Could he be alive? We haven't found a body yet,
there is baby Emmanuel? And why are sources stating this
seven month old infant child will quote never be found?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
It all starts here.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Just before eight pm Thursday night, Sam Bernardino Sheriffs arrive
and begins searching the strip mall and parking lot. Canine
units are dispatched to the scene, as well helicopters overhead.
Sam Bernardino Sharf's department joined by neighboring Riverside County deputies
to aid in a comprehensive search that stretches through the night.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
This was preventable in numerous ways.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Todave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave, thank you for
being with us. The mom says that she goes to
Big five as a sporting good store to get her
other son of mouthguard so he can play sports. That
she gets out of the vehicle to change baby Emmanuel's dipee.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
She hears one word from a male or lah, and
then she's attacked from behind. Hey, she's attack from behind.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Let's see her black eye that she got from that
tech from behind.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
That when she wakes up, the baby is gone. Is
that correct? Yes?
Speaker 3 (02:06):
No, Yes, that is correct.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
So then she goes into the store when she comes
to and ask has anybody seeing the baby?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Do I have that right?
Speaker 5 (02:18):
So far?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
You are correct, okay, Dave Matt.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Then the dad shows up on the same Listen, Jake.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Harrow shows up and bought a clothing negative at Big
Five and talks to assistant manager Liz Masa the morning
after his son is kidnapped. She says he was trying
to appear upset, trying to cry, rubbing his eyes, breathing
heavy but no tears as he asks for help finding
his infant son Harow is wearing a hoodie and his
ninety degrees and the manager is shocked to see that
(02:47):
Haro is just walking around the parking lot, not out
searching for his son.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Mesa says, it just felt off.
Speaker 6 (02:54):
He just came in and asked if we had any
information or please just set it. No, but there was
no tears, exaggerated kind of facial expressions.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
That's from our friends at us Son. Okay, I want
to analyze what we've just heard. Dave mack Now, this
is a woman that works at the clothing store next
to Big five. Let's see Big five Sporting Goods again.
It's a little strip mall. And according to this witness,
Liz Mezza, the assistant manager, Harrow comes in asking for help.
(03:31):
Tell me exactly what we learned from her, Dave mac Well.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
She says that when he came by that he was
trying to look upset, He was trying to breathe heavy,
he was rubbing his eyes, he was trying to act
like he was very concerned, and she could tell it
was an act because it just wasn't real. There were
no tears, first of all, but second of all, he
wasn't dressed appropriately for somebody who's going to be out
(03:54):
looking for their son on this particular day.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
He's wearing a hoodie.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
You point that out because you know this is August
in California and it's high so he had no business
to be out looking for his son. And why is
he looking in that parking lot? That was the other
question she pointed out. They closed the seven o'clock. Okay,
their parking lot is absolutely empty, right next door to
the Big k Or it's got a parking lot, and
(04:18):
they're open a little later, but there's not a lot
of activity, Nancy, And that's what she was trying to
point out is that they obviously did not know where
they were when they're putting this story out there, because
it doesn't match the geography, doesn't match the area they're
in at all.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Okay, you know what, Dave mac I think you've gone
too far out on the limb, claiming that just because
the dad was wearing a hoodie that somehow he's quote
you sound like Prince Andrew who said I couldn't have
molested Virginia Giffrey in the Epstein case because those are
my traveling clothes, right, So you're saying this was all
(04:55):
wrong because he was.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Wearing a hoodie.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Okay, if please don't say that any more, don't tell
that to anybody else, Okay, because it's raising a lot
of questions about your reporting. But that said, the other
part I found really interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
He came in asked if we had any info. If so,
please let me know.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
No tears, just exaggerated facial expressions, rubbing his eyes, breathing heavily. Okay,
that's interesting because you know what to doctor John Delatori.
Delatory is a renowned psychologist, a mediator.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
His specialties forensic psychology.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Doctor Delatory, I know that this woman that works at
the Beta clothing store beside Big Five is not a
shrink like you. She is not a nonverbal message expert.
She's not like a jury consultant that watches all the
(05:58):
jurors if they're ticks in their quirks, to see if
they would be good or bad on the jury for
their client. But she is a regular person like most
of us that when you get an odd sense about somebody,
you better listen.
Speaker 7 (06:14):
Now.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
A lot of guys, especially men, say, oh, you know,
that's just a woman, a nervous woman, reading too much
into it. I think hunches are very valid, and I
believe that they are born of thousands of years of evolution.
(06:36):
That you pick up things you don't even realize you're
seeing or hearing or feeling or smelling.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
I mean, it could be anything.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
So the fact that he's wearing a hoodie, I don't care,
but her feeling that it quote just felt off.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
I want to follow up on that deleatory.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 8 (06:56):
I mean, no, she's not a mental health professional, but
she is a huge human being, a human being working
in the service industry, so she interacts with people all
of the time, and all of these people she never
knows who's going to be coming in and for what reason,
and what their day to day experiences are. She knows
about this case and is expecting to experience something coming
(07:17):
off of this man, and she doesn't get it. And
that's already a red flag, right. Her intenna is already up,
So now she's going to be looking at more things.
What are the other inconsistencies that are going on? When
she tells herself, look, if this was my child, this
is how I would be comparing those emotional states to
the person that she's seeing right in front of her.
(07:38):
Are inconsistent, and that's what makes him just seem more suspect.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Okay, brace yourself.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Philip Dubay joining US veteran trial lawyer out of the
La jurisdiction jump in de Bay.
Speaker 9 (07:49):
I think it's ridiculous to assume that parents who are
in search of a missing child have to follow some
type of a blueprint, almanac or connect the dots in
some way, shape or form to suggest that they're not
behaving the way parents who might be in despair would display.
Because if you think about it, this is something that
(08:10):
may never happen during the course in the scope of
running a business, and certainly during the course in the
scope of raising children.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
So I don't know what anybody's talking about in assuming
that there is the right way to.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Behave but.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
On a prior program that you don't have any children.
So what do you know about what people are going
through raising children? Because I've told you what happened when
John David went missing, and it's always r us wait,
babies are us. I did not try to make myself cry.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
It's self. Preservation is preservation of your family.
Speaker 9 (08:40):
You don't have to be a parent to know that
a kid is missing and that you can kind of
pitch in and help find the child.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
That's absurd.
Speaker 9 (08:48):
And to suggest that either you know how you're dressed,
how you behave, whether or not you're crying, should follow
that playbook and determining whether or not you're up to
no good, I think is an unfair assessment.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Okay, I knew you would say that straight out to
Allie Neil joining US co founder revd up Kids.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
She has been fighting.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
For years to protect children from sex abuse, trafficking, and
other forms of abuse. Allie, thank you for being with us.
Why is debate saying that? Because you have dealt with
so many parents that are suffering because they can't find
their child. And I know defense attorneys say there is
(09:30):
no playbook, but actually there is a play book. I've
never seen a parent that did not show some sort
of emotion when they're looking for a lost child.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Allie, I would agree.
Speaker 10 (09:44):
With you, Nancy, but I also would agree that everybody
has different ways that they show or hide emotion. We
can't read his mind. And you know the store clerk, Yes,
she was observing what she believed was fake behavior, but no,
(10:05):
that's going to hold up in court. His behavior when
he walked into that store to ask about Oh.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Well, right, right right, I don't know what you're saying.
It won't quote hold up in court.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I mean the fact that he suggesting if this ever
goes to trial, the jury cannot hear evidence of his
demeanor at the clothing store because that's just past Awkwards.
They will hear that, and they will wonder, like we are,
why was he trying to make himself christ.
Speaker 10 (10:32):
They can hear it, but I think the defense would
turn around and say, you weren't in his head. You
don't know how he responds to, you know, crisis. Some
people just shut down. Some people you know. So it
feels like speculations.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Okay, Alan, okay, Alie. Steve Fisher, let's respond to that.
Steve Fisher joining us Missing Person's private investigator search and
rescue specialists. You can find him at Search Investigations dot org. Steve,
you have made a living. This is what you do
day in day out. You find missing people, especially children.
(11:09):
You go through all sorts of searches. You do all
terrain searches. You've overseen water searches, you've overseen dump site searches.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Name it, you've done it.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
So Steve ali'neil agrees with Philip Dubay that parents cannot
act upset at all when their child is missing. In fact,
in this case, the witness says he was trying to
make himself cry.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Now, I find that very odd behavior.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
The hoodie doesn't mean anything to me, but the demeanor
and what you're about to find out about them just
hanging around in the parking lot, not actively looking like,
what do they think baby Emanuel is going to walk
back into the parking lot.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
He's seven months old. But making yourself cry or trying
to that's just wrong. I don't know why they're saying
that that's normal.
Speaker 7 (12:09):
I've never seen. I always see frantic, you know, people
that are just you know, have no control of their
emotions actually, and that they both seem to kind of
have that same reaction to me, if it's kind of
force the stage and it was, you know, look like
a more of a press opportunity.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
You know what.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
We have barely touched the tip of the iceberg, So
I'm going to move us forward.
Speaker 6 (12:34):
Listen, the baby have been kidnapped, they would have been
out looking for them, saying with like my sisters with
their kids. You know, it's just not something to just
hang around in a parking lot and then.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
Just be mingling with your family.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (12:46):
We close at seven, So for them to say after
at seven forty seven, the whole parking lots and do
basically by that time.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Back to Dave Mack, that is exactly what you were saying.
If there had been a baby kidnapped, they would have
been out looking for them. They were just hanging around
the parking lot, like hanging out with a family, like
tailgating in the parking lot.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
She goes on to State and that's for our friends
at us Son.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
We close at seven, so for them to say it
happened at seven forty seven, the whole parking lot is empty.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Is that what you were saying earlier?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Dave mac explain, Okay, not exactly, Nancy. The store next
door to the Big Five actually closes at seven, and
their parking lot is adjacent to the Big Five. Big
Five stays open later than that store next door, But
for the most part, the parking lots are fairly empty,
certainly empty next to Big Five, and the Big Five
(13:42):
is finning out. There's not a lot of activity there
after seven o'clock at night. That's what the manager was
trying to say.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Okay, got it, guys. It goes on from there. In
the last hours, a lot happening in the case, a
lot happening in the search for baby Emmanuel.
Speaker 11 (13:59):
Listen appropriate to have a press conference, because it was
the defendants in this case that had a press conference first, and.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
They did so in order to tell the.
Speaker 11 (14:10):
Public, the media, and ultimately law enforcement that their child
had been kidnapped.
Speaker 8 (14:15):
I was going to get the diaper and somebody said
oil and I don't locome right here on the floor,
and I didn't see Manuel.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
It was a healthy baby.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
He was crawling, he was kicking, and he was he
was playing with his toys.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Whoever took our sun, please give him back.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
I'm watching his demeanor as he's speaking.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
His voice seemingly is cracking, but he's not crying and
he doesn't look distressed at all. That's for my friends
at KTLA and ABC seven. You were first hearing Mike
Hestrin from Riverside County Das office stating they were having
a press conference because the mom and dad had already
(15:06):
had their own press conference with me. Special guest doctor
Eric Esen Board certified forensic pathologist and you can find
him on Facebook at Eric august Esen, Doctor Eason.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
How can she explain that she was attacked from behind
but yet has a black eye on the front of
her face.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
Yeah, it could have fallen forward, hit something. She could
have spun around after being an attack from behind and
been punched in the face. Those are all possibilities.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Day mag I want you to explain to me what
Big five employees state about the mom coming in earlier
before Baby Emanuel goes missing to state that her car
had been vandalized.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
That's exactly what happened. She went to the store and asked, hey,
She actually said, my car has been broken into in
your parking lot. I'm just wondering, ga'la, have any surveillance
cameras pointed in this direction at all? That might have
been able to capture my car in the parking lot
and can you show me where it is? And she
was able to find out exactly what they had for
(16:12):
surveillance in the parking lot, so she already knew ahead
of time. And by the way, they don't live in
that area. It would have been out of the way
for her to be at that store any day other
than when she was there.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Dave mac When do they say that that happened, that
the mom came in stating her car had been vandalized
and asking if there were cameras, surveillance cameras on any
of the stores.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
This is one of those stories, Nancy, where we've been
told that she came in three days earlier. Since they
don't have any cameras, we can't actually find video proof
that she did that, Nancy, but that is what has
been said by employees of the store.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Well, Steve Fisher, wouldn't it be a matter of getting
her cell phone and tracking the cell phone to determine
if it had been in the parking lot two or
three days earlier.
Speaker 7 (17:01):
Absolutely, that's something that's celebrated. Can do a celebrate on
her phone. They'll be able to find out that information.
And there's also but I don't think she knew, is
there's lots of other surveillance cameras that are pointing, that
are showing that parking lot from across the street and
other ways. You know, I actually spoke, I actually went
to the Big Five and spoke to the employees, and
that witnessed her come in and they clearly, you know,
(17:25):
remember her coming in and it was suspicious to them.
And then when she came in with the kidnapp claim,
that's immediately what they thought of. They're like, this lady
was here, and what they said to me was earlier
in the month, although this happened fairly early in the month.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
So okay, wait a minute, Wait a minute, Steve Fisher,
explain exactly what the employees told you.
Speaker 7 (17:43):
Sure, I went into the Big Five. I was there
the day after the kidnapping claims started that happened, and
they told me that she had come in and asked
She had said that her car had been broken into
and she wanted to know if there was surveillance because
she needed it for the insurance claim, and they told
her that they did not have exterior cameras on the
(18:06):
building and that was it.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
You know.
Speaker 7 (18:10):
Of course at that time, they don't know what's about
to happen a few days later, but that's what.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
They told me.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Phillip Debay, what about that? Quite the co inky dink
right debate.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Don't you just hate it when your clients case the
joint days ahead of time to find out at their
surveillance video I would be interested to find out if
she really filed an insurance claim when her car was
quote burglarized?
Speaker 1 (18:35):
What about it? Dobay?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
And she goes back to the same place and gets
attacked a second time, same parking lot, same car, same everything.
Speaker 9 (18:46):
If I were defending her, I would put those store
employees through the vegimatic. I would just really left, right
and center, just cross examine them like they have never
been crossed before. And I would want to know just
how many employees are saying that about my quote unquote client.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
So, for example, this was your.
Speaker 9 (19:05):
Search and rescue debut, wasn't it. I'll bet you you
had checked the lighting before you spoke. You shut up
all the fluorescence and make sure you had bright light
and number two pancakes to rub on your nose in
your floor.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Even talking about first time, what are you that they're exaggerating?
Speaker 5 (19:24):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Okay to Steve Fisher.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Does he look like a camera crew to you? It
seems like a regular guy to me. He goes in
and talks to them about what happened, and they volunteer
and not just one of them under You can take
Fisher down, okay, putting debate back up debate. To believe
your theory, all of the employees that opened up to
(19:47):
Steve Fisher would all have to be in on it,
that all have to be part of a conspiracy to
lie about missus Harrow, that all have to be in
on it to miss Harrow that they've never met before this,
They don't know her.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
There's no grudge, there's no extra grind. But yet they're
all willing to lie to a guy that just walks
through the front door and asks, what happened? Is that
your story?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
They're all getting together to lie on Rebecca Herro Well, Philip.
Speaker 9 (20:19):
Do they and his personal capacity would absolutely buy it.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
But if I were defending her, I.
Speaker 9 (20:24):
Would do whatever I could to make it look like
they all put their heads together to take the lady down.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Wait a minute, that's your vegematic that you're bragging about.
I'm going to put the witnesses to a vegematic.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah, okay, number one.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Nobody uses a vegematic anymore unless you I shot my hand,
of course, but everybody else uses.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
A what do you say?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Queensin r All right, So that said, that's your vegematic.
You're going to accuse them of having their star turn
with Steve Fisher, who is not a camera person.
Speaker 9 (21:01):
If I were defending them, absolutely, I would do whatever
I could to challenge their perceptions, their recollections, and their
incentive to want to take the lady down, and you'd
be amazed time debate.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
You need a search, You need to search one, to
search all the employees home and find that pancake makeup
you're talking about. This is the vats and vats and
pots of pancake makeup and heavy powder that they were
going to apply for the moment that Steve Fisher happens
to walk through their door.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
They were ready for that. Okay, what about this debate.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
In the early stages of the investigation, detectives challenge Rebecca
Harrow on inconsistencies in her story and she stops cooperating.
Both parents are asked to take a polygraph, but Jake
Harrow refuses the polygraph without his lawyer.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
President.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Okay, so I guess you think that's normal behavior too.
When your child goes missing and your wife is attacked
in a parking lot, you won't take a polly because
of what? What are you afraid of?
Speaker 9 (22:00):
System sees imperfect, unreliable science, and we've seen this before.
Remember when the medal in McKay baby was abducted in Portugal.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
The parents would not make me call Debet. Matt Lan
magan got.
Speaker 9 (22:14):
The name Mattie McCann. Remember that the parents would not
submit to the polygraph. Not because it was consciousness of guilt.
It was consciousness of scientific imperfection that was the problem.
Can you imagine then being detained and held based on
imperfect science?
Speaker 5 (22:31):
No, So what do you do?
Speaker 9 (22:32):
You clam up, You ask for a lawyer, particularly in
a situation when you're being confronted with quote unquote inconsistencies
and you have turned a search and rescue into an
adversarial proceeding. I would have clammed up as well and
asked for counsel or.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
Just remained silent.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Crime Stores with Nancy Grace, I Fisher, I believe that
you know Mark Class. He's the gold standard.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
His daughter Polly was kidnapped, sex assaulted, and murdered by
Richard Allen. She was having to spend the night party
in her mom's home when police came to search Mark
Class's place. He opened the door and said, here, take
my fingerprints, search my place, search my car, search my office,
(23:29):
do whatever you want, then you can move on to
find out who took my daughter. Okay, he was willing
to take a polygraph. I find it very odd that,
faced with your child disappearing and a violent attack on
your wife in a parking lot, that you refuse a
polygraph and lawyer up, I got a problem with that.
Speaker 5 (23:50):
I agree.
Speaker 7 (23:51):
I mean, if a child goes missing, even if the
public might be throwing accusations around, I mean, as a parent,
if you have no guilt, and I think it's the
last thing going through your mind, is you know, the
failing a polograph. You think they would be willing to
submit to whatever would help investigators. And if the public's
(24:13):
making those claims, then you have to tune that out
if you truly got nothing to do with it. But
in this case, that's not what we saw. They told
us they were cooperating. That's what the parents told the news,
But it doesn't seem like it because at the time
I was there, they were in the house the whole time,
they weren't out searching, and it doesn't sound like they
were truly cooperating with authorities.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
In the Southern California News Group, Rebecca Harrow denies or
she went to the Big Five and you Kaipa days
before she reported the kidnapping and told employees her car
had been burgularized in the parking lot and asked if
the business had surveillance cameras. The Sheriff's department has yet
to address the claims.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Little Emmanuel was first reported missing on August fourteenth.
Speaker 10 (24:54):
They have searched two counties and they have still not
found this.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Little way baby Emmanuel, just seven months old, reportedly goes
missing out of a Big five Sporting Goods parking lot
there with his mother.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
This is a seven month old baby that they are
looking in the roughest terrain in the world.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Board and then bring out.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
The baby's father and he doesn't even boy to offer
any kind of assistance, any kind of help.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Tonight's sources stating they know why baby Emmanuel will never
be found. This as witnesses state, the dad, Jake Harrow,
asks for help in staging baby Emmanuel's kidnap.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
But there's another baby taking center stage. Listen.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
The sister of Emmanuel was so badly injured at just
ten weeks she was left unable to see, talk, or walk.
The little girl is being raised by her adoptive mother,
who renamed the child promised Faith at just ten weeks old.
Traumise had an acute fractured rib, healing fractures of six ribs,
(26:04):
a skull fracture, a brain hemorrhage, swelling of the neck,
a healing fractured leg bone, and nutritional neglect. Carro and
his former partner Vanessa Alvina were both charged with child
of cruelty in twenty eighteen tow h Horrow, pleading guilty.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Doctor Eric Ason, the injuries to maybe Emmanuel's sister are overwhelming,
and according to reports, she has cerebral palsy because of
repeat abuse.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
How can that happen? How do you get cerebral palsy
from beatings?
Speaker 5 (26:41):
Well, it's trauma to the brain, and it's a blunt trauma.
So a solid object struck the head, or the head
struck a solid object, or some combination of the two.
And so everything indicates that with the rib fractures and
all the other fractures on the body in different stages
of healing, that they were inflicted by another individual. And
that's how the cerebral pulsey can occur in a child
(27:01):
due to in treat of the brain.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
And what's so disturbing, Dave Mac, is that a.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Judge allowed Jake Harrow, the father in this case that
reportedly asked for help from store employees to set up
his baby's kidnap, he got to walk free.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
He walked free. Isn't that true?
Speaker 2 (27:26):
The judge said, Hey, I'm gonna do you a favorite. Judge,
Dwight W. Moore suspended Harrow's prison sentence and granted straight probation.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
What happened, Dave Mac.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
He spent a couple of weeks taking up trash on
the side of the road Nancy in a work release program.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Defense attorney Philip Debay, the baby cannot walk talk here.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
See he got probation. I guess you think his lawyer
did a good well.
Speaker 4 (28:00):
Of course he did.
Speaker 9 (28:01):
I mean you cannot claim that that attorney was ineffective.
I think the real question, though, is why the prosecution
wasn't pounding its fists on council table demanding that this
judge and post prison, or why they didn't file what
we call an affidavit of prejudice against the judge and
you get moved to a different court.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
It's my understanding.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
So somehow you're gonna not you're somehow trying to blind
the prosecutor for this.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Well, I've got er Bryan frank Baum for you. Listen.
Speaker 11 (28:32):
J Carrow pled straight up to the court, which sometimes
reporters get this wrong, and you call it a plea bargain.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
Judges are not allowed to plea bargain. The defendants can plee.
Speaker 11 (28:43):
Bargain with the prosecutor. But when a defendant pleads up
to the court, they plead to everything that they've been
charged with, and they're essentially throwing themselves on the mercy.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Of the court.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
It's called a blind plea in most jurisdictions. What that
means is the prosecutor would only agree to a plea
bargain for serious jail time. The defense wouldn't take it,
and so they go to the judge blind so to speak,
and throw themselves on the mercy of the judge. The
prosecutor disagreed, the prosecutor wanted.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Hard jail time. It's the judge, Judge Dwight W.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Moore.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
They went to the prosecutor, Yeah, you know what, screw
you and the horse she rode in on.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I'm gonna give it a straight probation. Even though he blinded.
The baby girl. He made her death dumb and mute,
and she can't walk and she has cerebral palsy. But hey,
he actually said from the bench, I'm gonna give you
a break. I'm gonna do you a favor.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
The prosecutor was doing a back flip. Listen.
Speaker 11 (29:53):
In this case, a judge here in Riverside County happened
to have been a visiting judge from Semberdy Dental County,
gave mister Harrow a suspended sentence, which means that instead
of sending him to prison, he chose to give him
probation and suspend prison time sort of over his head, meaning.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
That if you violated his probation, he would then go
to prison.
Speaker 11 (30:18):
My prosecutor in the courtroom objected to that and said,
on the record, we object. We think it's a prison case.
You should send him to prison. And the judge decided
that mister Harrow deserved an extra break and gave him
probation and basically one hundred and eighty days of work release.
That decision was absolutely outrageous. Mister Horror should have been
(30:42):
in prison at the time that this crime happened, and
if that judge had done his job as he should
have done. A manual would be alive today.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
That is Mike hestrin the Riversai County District Attorney saying,
we beg for jail time, we demand jail time, and
Judge Dwight W.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Moore threw us out of court and gave this guy
straight probation. And what did he do. He goes into
a store asking them to help him.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Give an alibi, help him create a story that his child,
his other child, was kidnapped.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
That is the woman.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
That is the person, Ali Neil that you said, Hey,
there's no playbook for a parent who's lost a child.
So maybe he was crying, maybe he was really upset.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
That's the guy he had already beaten into oblivion.
Speaker 10 (31:43):
Okay, I want to backtrack, because you were asking specific
questions about his demeanor in the store and the clerk's
perception of his demeanor in the store.
Speaker 12 (31:53):
Do I think he did it one hundred percent? Yes,
I absolutely think he did it, And I completely agree
that he should already be in jail for the other
child to beat. So yeah, this whole story just smacks
of this wild, made up lie.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
And I hope the wife is Jennie Neil. I hope
she's sitting down.
Speaker 10 (32:16):
Allie, I'm sitting down.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Are you sitting down? Simple? See you just sitting down? Well,
you know you might need to lay down for what
you're about to hear, Allie Neil.
Speaker 11 (32:25):
At the end of their sentence, he told Jake, I'm
giving you a big break today.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Don't mess it up.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
But I want to point something out to you.
Speaker 11 (32:32):
I want to read to you the injuries. The child's
name is Carolina. She's still alive today, but she is
permanently bedridden. She has permanent damage cerebral palsy that is
a result of long term child to.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Beat crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
She got out of the vehicle to change Baby Emmanuel's
dip and she was attacked from behind.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
But when she woke up from the attack, the baby
is gone.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
No money is taken. There's no sex attack, no carjack,
just the baby. No surveillance, No witnesses saw this. How
can you look at the disappearance of baby Emmanuel without
factoring in what Jake Harrow did to this baby's sister,
(33:38):
who was left forever in basically a vegetative state because
of him. He pled guilty it's not a question. Do
bab will probably make it sound like, well, maybe it
didn't happen. He pled guilty under oath in a court
of law. He rolled the dice and he hit the
jackpot because the judge gave him straight probation. And what
(34:01):
does he do, According to reports, he tries to get
store employees to help him stage a kidnap.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
The kidnap up another baby, baby Emmanual. But before we
move on, I want you.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
To hear the Riverside County District Attorney Mike Hestrin recount
what happened to baby Emmanual's sister.
Speaker 11 (34:23):
I want to read to you the injuries that were
presented to in court to this judge at the time of.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
That previous prosecution.
Speaker 11 (34:33):
A cute fracture of the posterior left rib, fifth rib,
healing fractures, healing fractures of the posterior lateral sixth, seventh
and tenth through twelfth ribs, healing fractures of the sixth
and ninth through twelfth ribs, partial bone fracture of the skull,
brain hemorrhage, significant prevertical soft tissue swelling of the neck,
(34:58):
and a healing tibia fract of the right leg.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
You know, when you hear the district attorney reading off
the injuries to the baby girl who was, you know,
just weeks.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Old, you can numb yourself.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
But if you think about what he is saying, if
you let your mind go to what he is saying,
what was done to the baby is brutal, it's hateful,
it's downright evil. What was done to this baby girl.
(35:36):
And now baby Emmanuel is missing. Now, according to sources,
baby Emmanuel will.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Never be found.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Borrow's next door neighbor is saying the body of Emmanuel
Horrow will never be found after hearing police had Horrow
out by the sixty freeway. The neighbor says she can
hear the coyotes at night like they are in the
front yard, and says she doesn't think the remains will
be found. Quote one something to be found. I'm pretty
sure you could find a way. Sad to hear, but true.
(36:07):
If you're a local here, you know that baby's gone.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Hey, Mac, explain to me what the neighbors are saying.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
They're pointing out, Nancy that while it seems the area
that you're talking about with Riverside and San Bernardino Counties.
There are a lot of areas that are very rural, Okay,
a lot of underbrush and coyotes. The coyotes are wild
and they can hear them at night, and as the
neighbor point, they're so loud, they're so they sound like
(36:36):
they're right here in the front yard. And that's what
she's pointing out. There are so many areas where if
that's what your goal was, to get rid of something
that nobody would find, you could do it in this
area around the house within two or three miles could
be totally lost.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
I want to go to Steve Fisher, joining us a
search and rescue specialist, start to investigations. Steve, if that's
true what the neighbor is saying, that a manual's.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Body will never be found.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
If the body had been disposed of out in one
of these many, many open and desolate areas, could cadaver
dogs find even a trace a part of the baby,
assuming coyotes had gotten to them first.
Speaker 7 (37:29):
Yes, so, and listen, this is a huge, vast open
area and I do a lot of searches out in
this area.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
And these are scavenger animals.
Speaker 7 (37:36):
It's not just coyotes. But there is a lot of
mountain lion in that area, and they're opportunistic animals and
they will feed upon stuff like this, but they scatter
the bones, they'll use them as salt lick sometimes, and
I understand such a young child has softer bones than
an adult. However they'll it does actually they'll spread those remains.
(37:58):
That actually gives a wider area for then humans or
canines to come in and search. And there still is
going to be you know, a material left where the
canines can pull sense, but it's not going to happen
if they're not out searching. And that's you know where
I have a problem lately, is I don't see these
(38:19):
searches happening. But yes, even if these predatory animals, we
see it a lot in desert searches, and it does happen,
but they do leave, you know, remains behind.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
There is of course a remote chance baby Harrow is
still alive, that Emmanuel is sold or given away. But again,
when you don't know a horse, look at his track record,
Doctor John Delatory. We know that Jake Harrow has a
history of beating infants. So it makes me believe that
(38:53):
the neighbor could be right, doctor Delatory.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 8 (38:56):
I mean I just just listening to the list of
is that that baby Carolina suffered. I mean I almost
want to cry. And you're right, Nancy. You know, the
best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, and we
see someone who engage in statistic violent behavior against vulnerable children,
(39:17):
and so more than likely if something could have happened,
and the same thing would have happened to baby Emmanuel.
Speaker 5 (39:23):
So I I.
Speaker 8 (39:25):
Are there other things that could have happened, Sure, but
the most likely thing, the most probable thing, is that
these two parents engaged in some nefarious act and baby
Emmanuel is now gone and we're struggling to try to
find him.
Speaker 5 (39:39):
You know that.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Let's clarify when you say gone, you mean did I
do mean dead?
Speaker 5 (39:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
In the last days, Jake Harrow and why Rebecca Harrow
are in court.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Jake Harrow has a public defender who entered a not
guilty believe for him at a Raymond and Rebecca Harrow's
court appointed private counsel, Jeff Moore, inereda.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
Believe not guilty for her.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
More from the firm Bloomenthal and Moore previously represented Louise
and David Turpin, the parents serving a life sentence now
for abusing their thirteen children for years in court. Deegaro's
wearing a jail issued read jumpsuit indicating he is not
in general population for his own protection, and Rebecca har
wearing blue jail uniform for the same reasons.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
So they're getting protected from the other inmates. I got
a question, Tobey, why do you hire a defense attorney
that lost the durping case?
Speaker 9 (40:31):
Great question, and I happen to know who defense counsel is.
He is private, but he's court appointed, so he was
not privately retained. He was appointed by the court at
taxpayer expense. This young couple is impoverished. They don't have
a potter or window to send on private counsel.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Are you trying to make me feel sorry for them
because they can't afford a high price defense attorney like you?
They got a high price defense attorney. His name is
Jeff Moore and he's with Bloominthal and Moore and a
also case Louise and David Turpin.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
They got life.
Speaker 9 (41:02):
The firm has a contract with Riverside County to pick
up all conflict cases where the public defenders declares a
legal conflict of interest. So they are on an annual
contract where they're basically paid a lump sum to represent
everybody brought in on conflicts during the contractual period.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Well, they landed in a pot of honey yet again
getting a vetterman trial lawyer.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
That's not all we hear, Dave Mac, that these two
demons from hell that are presumed innocent until proven guilty
are wearing special jumpsuits which means they're not in ginpop
general population.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
Why well, it's for their own protection because of the charges, Nancy,
at least that's what we're being led to believe, because
you know, we all have heard jail house stories of
how people who hurt children are treated with the way
they should be treated. It's that's for their own protection,
Dave Mac.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Those two turpins are alive and well, and you and
I got to pay for three hots and a cot
for those two.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Again, demon straight straight from hell. They're from hell.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
All those children abused, starved, beaten, kept literally in chains
in closets. Now the question is are these two cats
and a barrel going to turn on each other? And
I've got an indicator they will.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Jake and Rebecca o'haro were brought in through separate doors
at opposite sides of.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
The court room.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
They did not appear to look at each other, and
Jake Carrow kept his eyes on the judge. Rebecca Harrow
was kept out of direct view by her private attorney
appointed by the court, Jeff Moore from Bloomin Dalen Moore.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Don't you just love it, DBA when your client and
the co defendant won't even look at each other in court.
I've seen them sitting right beside each other.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
In court and they look the other way. They won't
even look at each other.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
A state's witness, and I think the state's witness is
going to be Rebecca Harrow. I hope she doesn't get
a sweetheart deal to testify against her husband.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
State you don't need her, You don't need her to
prove this case. What about it debate.
Speaker 9 (43:14):
I think you're absolutely correct, and I've said it from
day one. I think most Rebecca was an accessory after
the fact, meaning she was not complicit in the underlying homicide,
but may have had a hand in covering it up
so that her husband wasn't arrested. Still a crime. The
legal goodness for Rebecca is that that only carries three
years at halftime and does not have a lifetop.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
So if in exchange she testifies against me for three years,
I can.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Listen curious, are you actually on something? This woman is
not getting three years and walking free. That's not happening.
The state doesn't even need her. You don't think she
was there when Baby Emmanuel was killed. She took court
in the whole thing.
Speaker 9 (43:57):
What proof do you have when she had whatroof is
there that she had a hand in the murder if
there even was a murder.
Speaker 4 (44:04):
Seriously, it's my understanding the evidence saying.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
If there even was a murder, Did you just say that, Yes,
you're losing a lot of credibility right now to Bay
I could understand as.
Speaker 9 (44:15):
To him, But what do you have on her other
than she's got a black guy in a parking lot
saying somebody said, oh lot kidnapped the kidden.
Speaker 4 (44:22):
Purportedly drove off.
Speaker 9 (44:24):
Right now, you've got nothing saying that she had a
hand in that murder, if there was a murder.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
We wait as justice unfolds.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
If you know or think you know anything about baby Emmanuel,
please dial nine zero nine three eight seven eight three
one three repeat nine zero nine three eight seven eight
three one three And now we remember an American hero,
Officer Mark Reynolds, South Carolina State Police, killed in the
(44:54):
line of duty, leaving behind a grieving wife, Brandy, and
three daughters. American hero Officer Mark Reynolds Nancy Grace signing
off goodbye friend.
Host
Nancy Grace
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