December 31, 2025 • 38 mins
No hair is spared in this episode, as Josh and Rory ask: is it illegal to cut someone's hair without their permission? And what if that person is a cat?
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you can catch an owl, you have fully earned
the right to dunk them a couple times.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Campsite media arg.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Rory. In this lighting, it's a little hard for me
to tell. Do you still have your mustache?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I do, but I haven't had a shoot for a
few days, so it's kind of filling.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
In well, considering that today's episode is extremely relevant content
for you and your facial hair. Oh good, So here goes.
If we lived in the same city and I snuck
up on you and like shaved half your mustache off,
you'd probably punched me, and I deserve it. But would
you also call the cops? No, so I haven't committed
a crime.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
I I mean, I know you. You're not a stranger.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
So well, okay, let's imagine that I was a stranger.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Oh no, I kill you. I kill you.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
When I shave half of your mustache? Are you calling
the cops? Or You're going to deal with it in
your own way?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
You're asking a comic, So there's a part of me
that really appreciates the effort and the high jinks. I
don't know. I actually don't know if I would call
the cops. I don't know. That does seem extreme but
that is also an absurd thing to do to somebody
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Well, I ask because a version of this happened, and
not just to one comedian in Denver, to numerous people,
Amish people in Ohio.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Oh here we go.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Their beards were attacked shorn, which raises one of the
most important questions in the extremely long history of Crime Lost,
America's foremost podcast for the analysis of nuanced criminal justice issues.
That's right, one of those burning questions I think that
haunts nearly every American. Is it a crime to cut
someone's hair without their permission? And what if that person
(01:50):
is a cat?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
God, that's all. This is great for some reason. I
feel like if it's a cat, it's more of.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
A crime, hopefully, I would say, shamefully undercover matter of
unauthorized grooming. After the break, Hello and welcome back to
Crime List, the podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of
the world's dumbest criminals.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I'm Josh Dean and I am Rory Scopel.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Okay, Rory, Yes, when it's time to lose your state
cops dash, how are you gonna do it?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Uh? You know what, I'm gonna blend it back in
I don't want to shave it off. I'm gonna grow
the beard around it so it gets to hide amongst
its peers.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
I know you're on the edge of your seat waiting
for this week's top story, and here it is. On
February eighth, twenty thirteen, the FBI Press Office proudly reported
the end of a wild conspiracy in northeastern Ohio, and
I quote, Sixteen individuals were sentenced today for hate crimes
involving attacks against Amish residents in Ohio, some carried out
by the victim's children, and the group's leader received a
(02:57):
fifteen year prison term. In response to a religious dispute
among members of an Amish community, the sixty six year
old bishop of an Amish congregation in Bergholt's, Ohio, directed
his followers to forcibly cut the hair and beards of
other members of the Amish faith.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Oh And I.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Omitted one bit of information from that second paragraph because
I didn't want you to gloss over it.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
The name of the mastermind behind this ring of ruthless
beard choppers. His name from the Extremely on the Nose
Department is Samuel Mullett, Senior.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
YEP for Good Good.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Also named in the case were Johnny Mullet, which is
just an all timer of a fake name to use.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, that just seems like a kid who started smoking
cigarettes at about nine years old.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
So we got Johnny Mullett, Lester Mullett, and Daniel Mullett
in addition to Samuel Mullett. Then there were a variety
of Millers, a couple Shocks, and a Burkeholder. First of all,
this is an adjudicated matter, so I can say with
confidence that the sixteen people convicted in this case did
what the government claimed.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
They cut by.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Force, Okay, But Jerry heard the evidence and found them
all guilty in the fall of twenty twelve, so we're
not falsely accusing anyone here of beard cutting. And before
I get into the details, though, I gotta ask you
a question. Do you know why the Amish grow those
extremely long, kind of unruly beards.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I don't know the reason for it, unless it's just, hey,
this is a signifier that you're in our group.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
It's because of the Bible basically, okay, which isn't to
say that this is a particularly Christian quirk.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Either.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I'm gonna make a gross generalization here and risk cancelation
by numerous global religions.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I love getting brought down with other people. Please go ahead.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
No, but I think you can often tell how fundamentalists strict.
I'm gonna dare I say unfun a religious group is
by the unruliness of their beards, Like the longer the beard,
the more seriously religious.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
The more committed they are to the religion. Do you
think there's any chance any of the Amish got their
beards shorn and we're like, oh my god, I look great.
Like they had any moment, like there's any epiphany of like,
oh my god, look who's underneath there. I haven't seen
(05:07):
that guy in years. Oh my god, look who's been
hiding under that face blanket? Wow? And I think that's
the voice of a lot of Amish people. When you
think Amish person, you're like, oh my god. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I mean if they look like Civil War soldiers who
are abandoned in a remote cave or Tom Hanks and castaway,
probably a tough hang.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, yeah, definitely a tough hang. For sure.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Those are the kind of people who would disapprove of
many of your habits.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yes, I think your theory is correct.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
So the Amish see the beard as a symbol of masculinity. Apparently,
beards are mentioned nineteen times to the Bible. Okay, and
the founder of the Amish sect, Joseph Ahman, I guess
that's where we get the term Amish. He decided it
was God's will to grow a beard, and it's a
sin to shave one off. But there's an important caveat
married men. Single Amish dudes do not grow beards, which
(05:57):
makes it very easy for the ladies. Oh so, no,
you can't, like, there's no excuse, like I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
He was married. Yeah, it's my Amish voice. By the way,
that was actually right, he was married.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Oh I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Oh my god. This is good voice work that we're
doing here. Oh my god, he's married.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
It's also the only way to tell an Amish guys
married because they don't wear rings. Okay, I'm teaching you
so much today. There is a lot of education happening
right now. But you know what, the Amish don't like
rory what a mustache?
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yeah, you want to guess why that is.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I don't know. I'm only just now realizing that that's
the case.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yeah, Because like Amish people have the big beard and
no mustache, which is a look.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
It's definitely a look. But for some reason, it never
occurs to me that there's a reason for it. Obviously
it's because they're pacifists. Rory, Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Apparently, back in the nineteenth century when the Amish came
about in Europe, the British and French military is required
their soldiers to have mustaches. Oh, all right, feelings about that.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
So the Amish are a little more rebellious than we
have ever been led to believe. Yeah, because the fact
that they completely live inside their own cultures and never
interact with us.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Or use electricity or any modern machines.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, outside of those things you're telling me
they're rebellious.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
So the Amish hate war, so they banned mustaches. That's
a statement.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, I like that. I can get behind that. As
a guy who only has a mustache, you're the opposite
of the Amish. I love war. I love it. I
just love it.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
So that concludes the religious history lesson for today. I'll
get back to our crime. According to the US Attorney's
Office for the Northern District of Ohio, which is based
in Cleveland, the group, led by Sam Mullett, yes his
real name, carried out five separate beard and hair assault
in four Ohio counties between September and November twenty eleven.
In each assault, the defendants quote forcibly removed beard and
(08:00):
head hair from practitioners of the Amish faith with whom
they had ongoing religious disputes. Wow, so that's the crux
a bit. It was a religious dispute. Mullet was the
bishop of one specific group of about twenty Amish families
who lived on two hundred acres near Bergholtz, Ohio, which
is about one hundred miles south of Cleveland. The problem
seemed to stem from some family troubles in the Mullet clan,
(08:22):
specifically a messy breakup huh. After the estranged husband of
Wilma Mullet, Sam's daughter was granted custody of their children.
It led to the kids moving out of the community,
and this did not go over well with Sam Mullet,
who sounds like a bit of a dick.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Yeah, I'm just gonna say it. Well, he is wanting
to keep his grandkids close by, right, I mean yeah,
I mean that's fair. I would also be upset, but
I wouldn't go.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
I wouldn't do this because he decided to mete out
some of his own justice, a little like custom Amish
violence here he I mean, look, he's a mullet. This
is the mullet way. This is the mullet way. Here's
what he told The New York Times a year after
his convey in a jailhouse interview. We felt God was
against us, the community was sinning, and men were not
leading Christian lives. The inference there, I think is that
(09:08):
Wilma's ex was stepping out and wasn't the only one.
Sam feared that his flock was overly randy, and he
really spun out over this. He instituted a series of
pretty radical practices, like he canceled the bi weekly church
services that are typical in Amish settlements and instead required
members to attend regular meetings that, according to the Times,
were quote filled with accusations and confessions. Going to keep
(09:32):
reading from the Times here. In that tormented climate, Wilma
Mullett concluded that her brother Johnny and other men were
mistreating their wives and children and having impure thoughts about
other women. One night in early twenty ten, Wilma and
another woman took it upon themselves, she said, to force
her brother and six other husbands to rethink their ways
cutting off their beards in front of others.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Huh huh.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
It's like an ari astor horror movie kind of.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I gotta say, there is a vibe, there is a
little bit that there's a splash of that. I gotta say,
outside of the assault element of it, I bet it
is really fun to just shave off a massive beard.
I would think.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
So it's like a like a like a topiary, right,
like when you have like a big hedge and you
just like, ah, look at those.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, like there's a chance they like shaved a dude
and they were like, my god, you look fifteen. I
mean might be fifteen with the beard. We thought you
were fifty eight shaved. I thought you were in high school.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
It's like when you see the images of like a
wet owl. Have you ever seen like a bird without
its feather?
Speaker 1 (10:41):
It's such a specific example of rash, such a wildly yeah,
you know, it reminds me of a wet owl. I
feel like that's our next T shirt. I bet you
right now. One listener was like, I was just gonna say,
wet owl.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
So during the trial, prosecutors and witnesses described how some
of the defendants Sam Mullet's sons in this case, pulled
one guy out of bed and chopped off his beard. Meanwhile,
some female followers surrounded their mother in law and cut
off two feet of her hair. Hmm, man, Yeah, they
also started making quote errant men. Not sure if that's
cheaters or just men who dream of bare ankles sleep
(11:24):
in chicken.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Coops from up to two weeks. Okay, now it's gotten.
Now it's a little more aster than we had previously.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Now Sam claimed the door was never locked. He did
admit to one other very weird rule, which is that
when he caught two men fistfighting, he insisted they work
out their issues by spanking each other with wooden paddles.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Okay, this is There's so much coming to light the
more that we dig.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
I feel like Sam has some stuff to work out
in therapy.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I think, yeah, Sam does not know fully, he has
not fully formed in his mind what it is he's
truly into, and he's just trying everything. Throw every noodle
at the wall, let's see what sticks. I gotta say
I was pretty relieved.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
I mean, I loved the headline, but then to learn
that it was Amish on Amish crime because otherwise, you know,
I'm sure there have been some asshole teens out there
in Ohio or two. Yeah, but it would be a
much less funny story if it was outsiders or the English,
as I believe they called Harrison Ford and Witness.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I agree with you. It does feel like it makes
it more like, uh, I don't know, palatable.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yeah, otherwise it would be kind of mean.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah, otherwise it feels Yeah, otherwise, it feels like a
hate crime, despite the fact it's clearly fucked up.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
In the aftermath, some of the local Amish definitely did
not want to claim Sam Mullet as one of their own.
One woman, whose husband is an Amish bishop and had
his beard cut off, called Sam's disciples a cult and
accused him of quote programming their minds.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
These attacks were never just about hair, said assistant US
Attorney Bridget Brennan after the convictions were announced. They were
about religion, which is, by the way, why this was
a crime. Coming full circle here, Rory. This was, according
to the US government, a form of religious persecution. The
state argued that These were hate crimes, religiously motivated assaults,
which is why they were handled by the DOJ's Civil
(13:17):
Rights Division. Sam got fifteen years in the slammer, four
other dudes got seven years, and the rest of the
gang up between one and four years.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Man.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Meanwhile, back home, some of those who stayed in Bergholtz
seemed to feel like justice was not served at all,
Like Sam's unmarried and therefore unbearded nineteen year old grandson
Edward mast who talked to a reporter from WKYC in
Cleveland and said, the beard, what it stands for me?
What I know about it? Once you're married, you just
(13:48):
grow a beard. That's just the way, jamshit love how
fucking just right to the point that is Oh for me,
it just means you're married.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
As for the victims, he added, quote, they got their
beard back again, So what's the big deal about it?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Interesting?
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Very interesting, That, of course, is not how the US
government felt. Yeah, from day one, this case has been
about the rule of law in defending the right of
people to worship in peace. This was never about haircut,
said US attorney Stephen Deddleback. These were violent, religiously motivated
home invasions that left the victims bloody, bruised and beaten.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah. I love that. Someone's like a it's just haircuts,
the guy is it?
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Maybe not quite? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
He called the verdicts a triumph for one of the
most basic and sacred freedoms in this country, the freedom
of religion, and the judge. US District Judge Dan Aaron
Poulster also pulled no punges. Here's what he said to
Sam Mullet before his sentencing. You deserve the longest and
harshest sentence. Sadly, I consider you are a danger to
the community.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Well, you're right. He really didn't hold back in those
two sentences. He let them have it. He really laid
it on him with words. And then fifteen years in prison. Yeah,
I mean that's I gotta say, that's impressive. Didn't I
don't know that I saw fifteen coming.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
No, I feel like no one did. I think Sam.
Sam's gonna come out of prison as like a tattooed
gang member.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
There's no way he's not going to change. He's he's
into like colts. I think that one guy's right. It
does just feel very cultish.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I feel like this is the start of another really
good movie, which is like the kind of breaking bad homage.
Guy goes to prison for beard shaving fifteen years later,
comes out and becomes like an Amish mafia gang boss.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yeah, tat's on his knuckles, but he springs from jail
and it's called rum Springer. Oh yes, and his rum
Springer is in prison. So it wasn't fun at all.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I mean, I can't believe we got to the very
end of the segment in rum Springer has only now
come up.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
It was well, hey, I'm glad we got there better
late than ever it was bound to because.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
We would have gotten letters. Otherwise they'd be like, wait,
you did a whole Omish segment. There was no discussion
of rum Springer. Yeah, that's right, all right. Well after
the break, we've got a very different kind of barber
shop ambush. Okay, Rory, I'm gonna show you a picture now, okay,
(16:28):
Well Lane Is I don't have that kind of power.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Can you see what that is? Oh my god, Oh
my god.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
The caption says, my friend's cat got shaved at the
vet and now she looks like a game of exquisite corpse. Yeah,
it has nothing to do with our story. So that,
as the caption clearly states, this cat's shaving was totally
above board. But what are we what are we looking
at here, Rory?
Speaker 1 (16:50):
It's a cat. It's really hard to even fully understand,
but it's a cat that is shaved. In the middle
mid section of the cat body, the cat is like
standing up leaned against a screen door. In the middle
part is shaved like for a surgery kind of thing.
And so the full upper half of the cat is
(17:12):
still full with hair and the lower half is full
of hair. And it looks like, in a cartoonish way,
someone just stretched the cat out right shaved or not shaved.
That looks like a long cat.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Well, that has nothing to do with our story. I
just felt like you needed to see that, and you're right,
I did need to see that. Are you a cat guy?
Speaker 1 (17:33):
I am not. I'm allergic to cats, and therefore I've
never developed any sort of warmth with any cats.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
So you've never tried to shave a cat or trim
a cat's nails, put a cat into a carrier. No, no, okay.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
But I've you know, I've tried to as a kid,
tried to hold a cat unaware that they're not like
puppies and I've been scratched. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I think people who don't spend time around cast need
to understand how hard those things are. Yeah, really understand
the depravity of our second tale Today, here's Bill Fitzgerald
from WTVR in Richmond, Virginia with our story from the
spring of twenty seventeen in the small rural town of Waynesboro.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
A bizarre mystery to share with you tonight. Someone's going
around a small Virginia city abducting pet cats, shaving them,
and then returning them to where they were found. Police
in Waynesboro say it's happened at least seven times to
different cats since December.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
So wow.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Rebecca Martin, the cat owner who you just saw pop
up there at the end, said that what she found
motes upsetting was the shaving of her cat, Tiger Lily's belly,
not once, but twice in the previous year. Hurt her
not like physically, but it must have been mentally hard
on her, which she deduces because the cat doesn't.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Like to be picked up anymore. Huh.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Anchor Bill Fitzgerald closes his segment with the most important
question of all at least for US.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
Police say they're not even sure what crime has.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Been committed, cutting amash Beard's crime shaving cat maybe not yet.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
What are we? I love that the cops are like, look,
we don't even know the law.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
So this bizarre spade of cat shaving comes on the
heels of report from w HSVTV in which another Waynesboro
cat owner was interviewed about her cat having its undercarriage shape.
When the station called the local police, they weren't super helpful,
but did pause it. One theory as to what might
be happening. Want to guess what the cops theorized. I
don't even have a guess. No, they believed it could
(19:31):
have been someone checking to see if the cats were
spade or neuters.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Oh okay, it was always the belly, it seemed in
this case.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Yes, okay, So how do you do that?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Why would that work? Looking at the scars? I guess scars? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Does this mean if a cat had no scars they'd
take it a step further and spay or neuter the cat.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
They would kill the cat. They would just have to
kill the cat. There's nothing else you can do, absolutely
no other options.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Lest you think this is only something that troubled American
teens would do. I offer you this twenty twenty three
report from ITV in the UK.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
To the mystery surrounding what cat owners have described as
a disturbing space of attacks on their pets. There are
more than fifty reports of pet cats having had their
furs shaven off across the southeast of England.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
More than fifty reports.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Isn't it funny how just her accent alone gives so
much more credence to like the nightly news, Like over here,
it just seems so performative. But that just because of
an accent, We're like, this is real news.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Oh you know, you're right, Like every one of ours
makes Anchorman seem like a documentary exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Then you hear a British accent, You're like, shut up,
something important is being told to us.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
So that Anchor goes on to Warren that it could
become quote a daily occurrence.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Oh my god.
Speaker 6 (20:57):
Coco has always been a playful, happy cat who liked
her tummy being tickled until she was attacked two days ago.
Speaker 7 (21:05):
I was stroking her and then felt kind of this
stubbly area on her tummy, and I actually realized that
they've actually shaved the insides of their thighs and her
tummy area as well.
Speaker 6 (21:19):
Since the shaving, Coco has been unsettled and become reclusive.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Man, I'm sorry that I'm laughing at that, But what
that makes me think you did it? I mean, it's
exactly what you said.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
It's the toad, the accent, the tone that makes it
seem like they're taking it so serious.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
It's just like, this is so much more real and dramatic.
Speaker 8 (21:41):
But over here tonight we've got cats getting shored. What
are Presley saying about it? Right after these messages and
like you're like, all right, no.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
That seemed like, I mean the close up of the
cat's face as they were saying the cat had become
unsettled and reclusive.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
But these cats have such a different struggle. You're like
immediately like, oh my god, yeah, i gotta say. It
does seem evil, the element of learning that it changes
the cat's psyche. It's like, Okay, that's one, why are
you doing this? But two now it's got an evil
element to it where you're like, oh, you're like fucking
(22:18):
with these cats' brains again.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
We're applying human emotions to cats. Here, but so with
the news people.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
That's right, that's right, and I look at it. I
don't even like cats, and I'm here to vending cats
and not just these cats, the musical cats, anything involving cats.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
In the case of these cats in Kent, the shavings
were more random. The shaver or shavers targeted different areas.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Of the many cats.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
There were bellies, sure, but also backs, sides, legs. An
organization called Animals Lost and Found in Kent went so
far as to map the attacks in twenty twenty four
and counted as many It was one hundred and seventeen,
stretching from the south of England all the way to Scotland.
Natasha McPhee, director of the organization, said on fortunately we
have no idea why anyone would do this. There was
(23:03):
once an elderly ladies shaving cats that would come into
her garden, but she was cautioned and stopped. I doubt
she's traveling the UK shaving cats. Well, I'm not a
crazy large country, you know, England. Just to just England alone,
could you could really get around and really work a
number on a lot of cats. It always starts with
(23:24):
one too, right, like that lady's got to be on
the suspect list.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
The drug kicks in, you know what I mean, you're
gonna let's go one town over, suddenly you're an hour away.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
I mean, I also doubt it was her, but that
would make a great BBC limited series. You're right, whatever
is happening here, Rory, I think we can agree this
is creepy as hell.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Yeah to even want to do this, Yeah, it's I
don't know the belly. It's got a serial killer vibe
to it with no murder.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
The thing about these cat atacks in England, they're still
going on because earlier this year the problem flared up
again as more cats in the South of England were
targeted by this mysterious weirdo or Weirdo's.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
The South Holland.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Police released a statement. It has been brought to the
attention of the local policing team that some cats have
been returning to owners addresses in the morning with parts
of their fur having been shaven off. This appears to
be in the Pinchback area. There's also been a case
of this in Curtain near Boston. The motivation behind this
is not known. The cats do not appear physically harmed,
and the shaven areas appears to be small and caused
(24:24):
by some form of hair clippers.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Don't they have like CCTV everywhere? Like, don't they No
one's got anything on this, apparently not. It seems insane.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
The wildest and most disturbing theory I found was that
these cats were somehow being marked for future injury, perhaps
to be killed, which is some very dark shit.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
That now it's getting a little that's a little too far, now, wow,
I mean, I don't have a theory here, do you?
I have no theory at all. Like if this is
someone's like weird thing they just do with cats, it's
like what, I don't know. It's so confusing. Well, at
(25:06):
least the local.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Cops are delivering a stern warning to these cat shaving sickos.
This police statement comes from a story with the headline
police tell people to stop shaving cats.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I was about to make the joke. Police give stern warning,
Hey cut it out, greatly misinterpreted crime continues.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
They also said, quote this behavior is completely unacceptable. Whatever
the motivation behind this is, it's not something that should
be taking place. And also this is not a bit
of fun and needs to stop now, which.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
All sounds like something seems like it seems like someone
who knows someone's in trouble, but they don't even really
know what they did. All right, Well, change and be better.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
I guess I should have done that in a British accent?
Can you do in a British accent?
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Cut it out? This is not a bit of fun.
These kissy cats. Leave these kitty cats.
Speaker 8 (26:01):
Be we let you drink outside of pubs on public
sidewalks with glass pint glasses.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Can't that be enough?
Speaker 3 (26:12):
So, whether it's a crime or not, the British cat
attacks are still unsolved. So get after it crime less nation, Yeah,
get after.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
It solved, or hire that don't fuck with Cats team
from that documentary those people did. Like that was insane research.
Those people did that documentary I did. And that guy
was a killer and they got him. That guy was
a murderer. They should be able to get this guy.
That's I think this would be even easier. Season two,
(26:41):
Season two, Stop Shaving Cats by Josh the Wet Owl Dean.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
All right, after the break our final segment.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
This is crimeless Lane.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
What's our final segment?
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Lane's game?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
So I have more of a rabbit hole than a game.
But I have one question I'm going to ask you,
so don't completely check out.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
I love that when we get to Lane's games, Lane
goes more of a rabbit hole.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Here we go, I'm in the driver's team.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Now we go where I say.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
I've got this theory about the twenty twenty elections.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
So a fun fact from the Crime List staff is
Josh and I both lived around Namish Country.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Josh remind me where western Maryland, Western Pennsylvania, eastern Ohio district. Like, basically,
the Amish were in southwestern Pennsylvania, Okay.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
And I grew up about fifteen minutes outside of Sugar Creek, Ohio,
which is due with a gateway to Amish Country, Okay,
which means over the years there's been a lot of
like tourism popping up, lots of there's like new hotels, restaurants, shops,
and a five hundred seat theater. And in twenty sixteen,
this is when it opened. They were one of the
(27:59):
first performances was a musical called Josiah for President. And
this musical I drove by this billboard so many times
and it was just like an image of an Amish
man in front of the White House with his horse
and buggy, and I was always like, what the fuck,
what is this? This can't be real. So I'm very
(28:20):
grateful to Crime List because I finally got to get
to the bottom of what this musical was about. And
I want to share a video with you.
Speaker 9 (28:29):
Yes, okay, Yes, I am Congressman Mark Steedman, And as
you know, I have withdrawn my candidacy for President of
the United States. The man I am endorsing will take
America back back to basics, back to what is important
in life. I am endorsing Josiah for President.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I am in shock. This is not a daily show sketch.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
This is so real.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
And you're telling me that you drove passed this all
the time and never once bought a ticket to go
see Wow Wow. I mean, because that was an extended
run there, March, April, May, June, July. Come on. It
also begs the question what act could follow that It's
always going to be Josiah for Commissioner, Josiah for comptroller comptroller.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
So yeah, you get the gist of it. A presidential
candidate drops out, taps this amish man, Josiah runs on
a plane truce platform, and the question is asked, can
he heal a broken nation? And that would be all
a broken nation? Twenty twelve when this book was written,
the musicals based off any questions before I move on
about Josiah.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Is the soundtrack available streaming anywhere?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Nope, but you can buy it on eBay for ninety dollars.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
And I will.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Okay, did an Amish person write this?
Speaker 1 (29:54):
No? Just a woman even better.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Because they'd have to write it on paper because they can't.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Right. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Also I like that. I asked was it an homage person?
He said, no, just a woman. Nope, it was a woman.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Okay. So yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
This has been running for like a decade now and
I've only read positive reviews for it, and I found
one that Rory, I was wondering if you could read
for us in your best Southern accent, which I know
you have.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Is he doing this? Is? What region? Is this?
Speaker 3 (30:26):
South Carolina, Georgia, Florida.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
This means from Michigan, but I think.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
A southern action, but southern makes the most sense. Yeah.
I'm not much of a fan of live plays. At
age seventy seven and a half, I would rather honestly
sit at home at my computer and look at what
I will you know what I want to watch in
my computer chair and hot pad to sue, then aching back,
then go about anywhere else. But my sweetheart of forty
(30:51):
two years yes on June nineteenth, twenty twenty four, wanted
me to take her to the play at Shipshee for
our four second wedding anniversary. So I took her there
from Grand Rapids Mish with my making back slash leg
numbness issues, and it was a hot ninety eight degrees outside,
(31:14):
so the air conditioning was not the coldest for me,
though it was fine for my sweetie. I started feeling
like leaving and taking a nap might be a better
use of my time. I'm so glad I did it. However,
the play takes a very intriguing twist as it comes
to an end which I dare not give away. Just
(31:37):
want to say that for an old country redneck not
into musical plays, I would give this one one hundred
out of one hundred likes. So again I would just
like to reiterate my score here is one one hundred
(31:59):
out of one one hundred likes, which many could interpret
as the lowest score.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Also out of one hundred likes, not a unit of
measure for popularity.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
That I use a lot.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
How many of one hundred likes would you give it?
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah? Hundred?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
So your single question for the day is something that
Norm brought up. What is the very intriguing twist that
is great? Josiah does win the election, so that's not
the twist.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yes he has to I have multiple.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Choice, but I'm willing to hear your theories.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
All right, here you go. First, he wins the election
and we find out this whole time he was an
undercover cop. But let me finish one of those AI cops. Wait,
what year was this?
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Twenty twelve is when it was written.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
All right, forget the AI thing. Undercover cop stays.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
My twist is he grows a mustache and declares war
on Canada. Smart Smart wants the mustache. He doesn't have
to be a pacifist anymore. Finally, all right, give us
the multiple choice because I'm sure that I was right
and Rora was not.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
None of those are right.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
If this musical is written by an Amish man, believe
you me, undercover cop would have been the ending.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Too bad it was a woman.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
It was a woman who has a more practical storyline
that fits the ending.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Okay, so is the twist A During Josiah's Rumspringer, he
was arrested for a hit and run while driving a
stolen vehicle. His opponents leak this to the press, ruining
his wholesome reputation in chances of reelection. That's a b.
Josiah's bishop urges him to drop out of the race,
saying his candidacy will bring shame to his community and
(33:56):
dilute his faith. But when Josiah wins the election, the
bishop is close to shunning him, So Josiah resigns from
office and returns home or c. After the State of
the Union address, President Josiah is assassinated by a deranged blogger.
He dies outside the Capitol Building in his wife's arms.
She does not ride in the ambulance with him because
(34:19):
she is Amish and it is a car that's see.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Okay, But before we guess, Josh, I would just like
to point out again this reviewer, based on one of
those three options thought one hundred out of one hundred.
Now I know, Josh, you've sat here and you heard
all three potential endings, and zero of them sound one
hundred out of one hundred.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Well, to be fair, I'm not familiar with the one
hundred like scale.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
So oh my god, I what blew this guy's mind.
I'm going to go with the assassination because it seems
like that would be the most Oh my god. Maybe
the production of the assassination was significant, That's my guess.
The others are kind of like, why would that guy
be so blown away by that?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Yeah, the like disappointed bishop, but I.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Feel like that. But the twist at the end what
the bishop is judgmental.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
I'm going assassination too.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
It is assassination. It is assassination. He is shot by
a by a blogger whose name is storm Cloud four four,
which seems weird.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Not also, just to be very clear, not the online
profile name. That person's real name is storm Cloud for four.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Oh you've read the book too.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I'm a big fan of Josiah goes to Washington.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
As I have a president.
Speaker 8 (35:50):
Ye.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
So he's shot and he dies of his wife's arms,
but she refuses to.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Get in the ambulance. The ambulance Yeah, like, do you have.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
A horse powered ambulance that we could take?
Speaker 1 (35:59):
I would go see this I would go see this
show if I was in town. How you were able
to avoid it? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
I was in college at the time, you know, I was,
I was above theater.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
I think it's got one hundred out of one hundred likes.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Somebody is going to hear this, and we're gonna remake.
We're gonna bring We're gonna do Josiah too.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Just yeah, this is going to be a film before
you know it. Crap.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Let's you know what, Rory, do you want to be Josiah?
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Yes, obviously, you guys just got to reverse the mustache
to Beard.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
I'll do whatever Hollywood needs. H you'd make a good Josiah.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I think, thank you, thank you for coming down this
rabbit hole with me. I feel like I could I
could breathe again.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah. This felt more therapeutic for you than a quiz.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Yeah it really was.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Crime Less is a production of SmartLess Media, Campside Media,
and Big Money Players in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. It's
hosted by Rory Scovel and me Josh Dean. Our senior
producer is Lane Rose. Emma Simonov is our associate producer.
We're sound designed and engineered by Blake Brook with support
from Ewan letram Ewen Mark McAdam composed.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Our theme song.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
The executive producers at Campside Media are Vanessa Gregoriatis, Matt
Cher and me Josh Dean. The executive producers for iHeart
Podcasts and Big Money Players are Jack O'Brien, Lindsay Hoffmans,
and Matt Appadaka. For SmartLess Media, the executive producers are
Will Arnette, Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, and Richard Corson. Bernie
(37:42):
Kaminski is head of Production. The associate producer is Mattie McCann.
A special thanks to our operations team, Ashley Warren and
Sabina Marra. Do you have a question, comment, or confession
for the Crimeless team, Email us at Crimeless at campsidmedia
dot com and if you enjoyed Crimeless, please rate and
review the show wherever you.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
It helps people find the show and also makes us
feel validated, unless you're mean, in which.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Case keep it to yourself. We'll see you next week.
Crime List Nations
If you can catch an owl, you have fully earned
the right to dunk them a couple times.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Campsite media arg.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Rory. In this lighting, it's a little hard for me
to tell. Do you still have your mustache?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I do, but I haven't had a shoot for a
few days, so it's kind of filling.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
In well, considering that today's episode is extremely relevant content
for you and your facial hair. Oh good, So here goes.
If we lived in the same city and I snuck
up on you and like shaved half your mustache off,
you'd probably punched me, and I deserve it. But would
you also call the cops? No, so I haven't committed
a crime.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
I I mean, I know you. You're not a stranger.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
So well, okay, let's imagine that I was a stranger.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Oh no, I kill you. I kill you.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
When I shave half of your mustache? Are you calling
the cops? Or You're going to deal with it in
your own way?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
You're asking a comic, So there's a part of me
that really appreciates the effort and the high jinks. I
don't know. I actually don't know if I would call
the cops. I don't know. That does seem extreme but
that is also an absurd thing to do to somebody
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Well, I ask because a version of this happened, and
not just to one comedian in Denver, to numerous people,
Amish people in Ohio.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Oh here we go.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Their beards were attacked shorn, which raises one of the
most important questions in the extremely long history of Crime Lost,
America's foremost podcast for the analysis of nuanced criminal justice issues.
That's right, one of those burning questions I think that
haunts nearly every American. Is it a crime to cut
someone's hair without their permission? And what if that person
(01:50):
is a cat?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
God, that's all. This is great for some reason. I
feel like if it's a cat, it's more of.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
A crime, hopefully, I would say, shamefully undercover matter of
unauthorized grooming. After the break, Hello and welcome back to
Crime List, the podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of
the world's dumbest criminals.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I'm Josh Dean and I am Rory Scopel.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Okay, Rory, Yes, when it's time to lose your state
cops dash, how are you gonna do it?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Uh? You know what, I'm gonna blend it back in
I don't want to shave it off. I'm gonna grow
the beard around it so it gets to hide amongst
its peers.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
I know you're on the edge of your seat waiting
for this week's top story, and here it is. On
February eighth, twenty thirteen, the FBI Press Office proudly reported
the end of a wild conspiracy in northeastern Ohio, and
I quote, Sixteen individuals were sentenced today for hate crimes
involving attacks against Amish residents in Ohio, some carried out
by the victim's children, and the group's leader received a
(02:57):
fifteen year prison term. In response to a religious dispute
among members of an Amish community, the sixty six year
old bishop of an Amish congregation in Bergholt's, Ohio, directed
his followers to forcibly cut the hair and beards of
other members of the Amish faith.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Oh And I.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Omitted one bit of information from that second paragraph because
I didn't want you to gloss over it.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
The name of the mastermind behind this ring of ruthless
beard choppers. His name from the Extremely on the Nose
Department is Samuel Mullett, Senior.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
YEP for Good Good.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Also named in the case were Johnny Mullet, which is
just an all timer of a fake name to use.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, that just seems like a kid who started smoking
cigarettes at about nine years old.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
So we got Johnny Mullett, Lester Mullett, and Daniel Mullett
in addition to Samuel Mullett. Then there were a variety
of Millers, a couple Shocks, and a Burkeholder. First of all,
this is an adjudicated matter, so I can say with
confidence that the sixteen people convicted in this case did
what the government claimed.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
They cut by.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Force, Okay, But Jerry heard the evidence and found them
all guilty in the fall of twenty twelve, so we're
not falsely accusing anyone here of beard cutting. And before
I get into the details, though, I gotta ask you
a question. Do you know why the Amish grow those
extremely long, kind of unruly beards.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I don't know the reason for it, unless it's just, hey,
this is a signifier that you're in our group.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
It's because of the Bible basically, okay, which isn't to
say that this is a particularly Christian quirk.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Either.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
I'm gonna make a gross generalization here and risk cancelation
by numerous global religions.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I love getting brought down with other people. Please go ahead.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
No, but I think you can often tell how fundamentalists strict.
I'm gonna dare I say unfun a religious group is
by the unruliness of their beards, Like the longer the beard,
the more seriously religious.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
The more committed they are to the religion. Do you
think there's any chance any of the Amish got their
beards shorn and we're like, oh my god, I look great.
Like they had any moment, like there's any epiphany of like,
oh my god, look who's underneath there. I haven't seen
(05:07):
that guy in years. Oh my god, look who's been
hiding under that face blanket? Wow? And I think that's
the voice of a lot of Amish people. When you
think Amish person, you're like, oh my god. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I mean if they look like Civil War soldiers who
are abandoned in a remote cave or Tom Hanks and castaway,
probably a tough hang.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, yeah, definitely a tough hang. For sure.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Those are the kind of people who would disapprove of
many of your habits.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Yes, I think your theory is correct.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
So the Amish see the beard as a symbol of masculinity. Apparently,
beards are mentioned nineteen times to the Bible. Okay, and
the founder of the Amish sect, Joseph Ahman, I guess
that's where we get the term Amish. He decided it
was God's will to grow a beard, and it's a
sin to shave one off. But there's an important caveat
married men. Single Amish dudes do not grow beards, which
(05:57):
makes it very easy for the ladies. Oh so, no,
you can't, like, there's no excuse, like I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
He was married. Yeah, it's my Amish voice. By the way,
that was actually right, he was married.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Oh I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Oh my god. This is good voice work that we're
doing here. Oh my god, he's married.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
It's also the only way to tell an Amish guys
married because they don't wear rings. Okay, I'm teaching you
so much today. There is a lot of education happening
right now. But you know what, the Amish don't like
rory what a mustache?
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yeah, you want to guess why that is.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I don't know. I'm only just now realizing that that's
the case.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Yeah, Because like Amish people have the big beard and
no mustache, which is a look.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
It's definitely a look. But for some reason, it never
occurs to me that there's a reason for it. Obviously
it's because they're pacifists. Rory, Okay.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Apparently, back in the nineteenth century when the Amish came
about in Europe, the British and French military is required
their soldiers to have mustaches. Oh, all right, feelings about that.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
So the Amish are a little more rebellious than we
have ever been led to believe. Yeah, because the fact
that they completely live inside their own cultures and never
interact with us.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Or use electricity or any modern machines.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, outside of those things you're telling me
they're rebellious.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
So the Amish hate war, so they banned mustaches. That's
a statement.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, I like that. I can get behind that. As
a guy who only has a mustache, you're the opposite
of the Amish. I love war. I love it. I
just love it.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
So that concludes the religious history lesson for today. I'll
get back to our crime. According to the US Attorney's
Office for the Northern District of Ohio, which is based
in Cleveland, the group, led by Sam Mullett, yes his
real name, carried out five separate beard and hair assault
in four Ohio counties between September and November twenty eleven.
In each assault, the defendants quote forcibly removed beard and
(08:00):
head hair from practitioners of the Amish faith with whom
they had ongoing religious disputes. Wow, so that's the crux
a bit. It was a religious dispute. Mullet was the
bishop of one specific group of about twenty Amish families
who lived on two hundred acres near Bergholtz, Ohio, which
is about one hundred miles south of Cleveland. The problem
seemed to stem from some family troubles in the Mullet clan,
(08:22):
specifically a messy breakup huh. After the estranged husband of
Wilma Mullet, Sam's daughter was granted custody of their children.
It led to the kids moving out of the community,
and this did not go over well with Sam Mullet,
who sounds like a bit of a dick.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Yeah, I'm just gonna say it. Well, he is wanting
to keep his grandkids close by, right, I mean yeah,
I mean that's fair. I would also be upset, but
I wouldn't go.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
I wouldn't do this because he decided to mete out
some of his own justice, a little like custom Amish
violence here he I mean, look, he's a mullet. This
is the mullet way. This is the mullet way. Here's
what he told The New York Times a year after
his convey in a jailhouse interview. We felt God was
against us, the community was sinning, and men were not
leading Christian lives. The inference there, I think is that
(09:08):
Wilma's ex was stepping out and wasn't the only one.
Sam feared that his flock was overly randy, and he
really spun out over this. He instituted a series of
pretty radical practices, like he canceled the bi weekly church
services that are typical in Amish settlements and instead required
members to attend regular meetings that, according to the Times,
were quote filled with accusations and confessions. Going to keep
(09:32):
reading from the Times here. In that tormented climate, Wilma
Mullett concluded that her brother Johnny and other men were
mistreating their wives and children and having impure thoughts about
other women. One night in early twenty ten, Wilma and
another woman took it upon themselves, she said, to force
her brother and six other husbands to rethink their ways
cutting off their beards in front of others.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Huh huh.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
It's like an ari astor horror movie kind of.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
I gotta say, there is a vibe, there is a
little bit that there's a splash of that. I gotta say,
outside of the assault element of it, I bet it
is really fun to just shave off a massive beard.
I would think.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
So it's like a like a like a topiary, right,
like when you have like a big hedge and you
just like, ah, look at those.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, like there's a chance they like shaved a dude
and they were like, my god, you look fifteen. I
mean might be fifteen with the beard. We thought you
were fifty eight shaved. I thought you were in high school.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
It's like when you see the images of like a
wet owl. Have you ever seen like a bird without
its feather?
Speaker 1 (10:41):
It's such a specific example of rash, such a wildly yeah,
you know, it reminds me of a wet owl. I
feel like that's our next T shirt. I bet you
right now. One listener was like, I was just gonna say,
wet owl.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
So during the trial, prosecutors and witnesses described how some
of the defendants Sam Mullet's sons in this case, pulled
one guy out of bed and chopped off his beard. Meanwhile,
some female followers surrounded their mother in law and cut
off two feet of her hair. Hmm, man, Yeah, they
also started making quote errant men. Not sure if that's
cheaters or just men who dream of bare ankles sleep
(11:24):
in chicken.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Coops from up to two weeks. Okay, now it's gotten.
Now it's a little more aster than we had previously.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Now Sam claimed the door was never locked. He did
admit to one other very weird rule, which is that
when he caught two men fistfighting, he insisted they work
out their issues by spanking each other with wooden paddles.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Okay, this is There's so much coming to light the
more that we dig.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
I feel like Sam has some stuff to work out
in therapy.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I think, yeah, Sam does not know fully, he has
not fully formed in his mind what it is he's
truly into, and he's just trying everything. Throw every noodle
at the wall, let's see what sticks. I gotta say
I was pretty relieved.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
I mean, I loved the headline, but then to learn
that it was Amish on Amish crime because otherwise, you know,
I'm sure there have been some asshole teens out there
in Ohio or two. Yeah, but it would be a
much less funny story if it was outsiders or the English,
as I believe they called Harrison Ford and Witness.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I agree with you. It does feel like it makes
it more like, uh, I don't know, palatable.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yeah, otherwise it would be kind of mean.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Yeah, otherwise it feels Yeah, otherwise, it feels like a
hate crime, despite the fact it's clearly fucked up.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
In the aftermath, some of the local Amish definitely did
not want to claim Sam Mullet as one of their own.
One woman, whose husband is an Amish bishop and had
his beard cut off, called Sam's disciples a cult and
accused him of quote programming their minds.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
These attacks were never just about hair, said assistant US
Attorney Bridget Brennan after the convictions were announced. They were
about religion, which is, by the way, why this was
a crime. Coming full circle here, Rory. This was, according
to the US government, a form of religious persecution. The
state argued that These were hate crimes, religiously motivated assaults,
which is why they were handled by the DOJ's Civil
(13:17):
Rights Division. Sam got fifteen years in the slammer, four
other dudes got seven years, and the rest of the
gang up between one and four years.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Man.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Meanwhile, back home, some of those who stayed in Bergholtz
seemed to feel like justice was not served at all,
Like Sam's unmarried and therefore unbearded nineteen year old grandson
Edward mast who talked to a reporter from WKYC in
Cleveland and said, the beard, what it stands for me?
What I know about it? Once you're married, you just
(13:48):
grow a beard. That's just the way, jamshit love how
fucking just right to the point that is Oh for me,
it just means you're married.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
As for the victims, he added, quote, they got their
beard back again, So what's the big deal about it?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Interesting?
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Very interesting, That, of course, is not how the US
government felt. Yeah, from day one, this case has been
about the rule of law in defending the right of
people to worship in peace. This was never about haircut,
said US attorney Stephen Deddleback. These were violent, religiously motivated
home invasions that left the victims bloody, bruised and beaten.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yeah. I love that. Someone's like a it's just haircuts,
the guy is it?
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Maybe not quite? Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
He called the verdicts a triumph for one of the
most basic and sacred freedoms in this country, the freedom
of religion, and the judge. US District Judge Dan Aaron
Poulster also pulled no punges. Here's what he said to
Sam Mullet before his sentencing. You deserve the longest and
harshest sentence. Sadly, I consider you are a danger to
the community.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Well, you're right. He really didn't hold back in those
two sentences. He let them have it. He really laid
it on him with words. And then fifteen years in prison. Yeah,
I mean that's I gotta say, that's impressive. Didn't I
don't know that I saw fifteen coming.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
No, I feel like no one did. I think Sam.
Sam's gonna come out of prison as like a tattooed
gang member.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
There's no way he's not going to change. He's he's
into like colts. I think that one guy's right. It
does just feel very cultish.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
I feel like this is the start of another really
good movie, which is like the kind of breaking bad homage.
Guy goes to prison for beard shaving fifteen years later,
comes out and becomes like an Amish mafia gang boss.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yeah, tat's on his knuckles, but he springs from jail
and it's called rum Springer. Oh yes, and his rum
Springer is in prison. So it wasn't fun at all.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I mean, I can't believe we got to the very
end of the segment in rum Springer has only now
come up.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
It was well, hey, I'm glad we got there better
late than ever it was bound to because.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
We would have gotten letters. Otherwise they'd be like, wait,
you did a whole Omish segment. There was no discussion
of rum Springer. Yeah, that's right, all right. Well after
the break, we've got a very different kind of barber
shop ambush. Okay, Rory, I'm gonna show you a picture now, okay,
(16:28):
Well Lane Is I don't have that kind of power.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Can you see what that is? Oh my god, Oh
my god.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
The caption says, my friend's cat got shaved at the
vet and now she looks like a game of exquisite corpse. Yeah,
it has nothing to do with our story. So that,
as the caption clearly states, this cat's shaving was totally
above board. But what are we what are we looking
at here, Rory?
Speaker 1 (16:50):
It's a cat. It's really hard to even fully understand,
but it's a cat that is shaved. In the middle
mid section of the cat body, the cat is like
standing up leaned against a screen door. In the middle
part is shaved like for a surgery kind of thing.
And so the full upper half of the cat is
(17:12):
still full with hair and the lower half is full
of hair. And it looks like, in a cartoonish way,
someone just stretched the cat out right shaved or not shaved.
That looks like a long cat.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
Well, that has nothing to do with our story. I
just felt like you needed to see that, and you're right,
I did need to see that. Are you a cat guy?
Speaker 1 (17:33):
I am not. I'm allergic to cats, and therefore I've
never developed any sort of warmth with any cats.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
So you've never tried to shave a cat or trim
a cat's nails, put a cat into a carrier. No, no, okay.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
But I've you know, I've tried to as a kid,
tried to hold a cat unaware that they're not like
puppies and I've been scratched. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I think people who don't spend time around cast need
to understand how hard those things are. Yeah, really understand
the depravity of our second tale Today, here's Bill Fitzgerald
from WTVR in Richmond, Virginia with our story from the
spring of twenty seventeen in the small rural town of Waynesboro.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
A bizarre mystery to share with you tonight. Someone's going
around a small Virginia city abducting pet cats, shaving them,
and then returning them to where they were found. Police
in Waynesboro say it's happened at least seven times to
different cats since December.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
So wow.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Rebecca Martin, the cat owner who you just saw pop
up there at the end, said that what she found
motes upsetting was the shaving of her cat, Tiger Lily's belly,
not once, but twice in the previous year. Hurt her
not like physically, but it must have been mentally hard
on her, which she deduces because the cat doesn't.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Like to be picked up anymore. Huh.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Anchor Bill Fitzgerald closes his segment with the most important
question of all at least for US.
Speaker 5 (18:53):
Police say they're not even sure what crime has.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Been committed, cutting amash Beard's crime shaving cat maybe not yet.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
What are we? I love that the cops are like, look,
we don't even know the law.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
So this bizarre spade of cat shaving comes on the
heels of report from w HSVTV in which another Waynesboro
cat owner was interviewed about her cat having its undercarriage shape.
When the station called the local police, they weren't super helpful,
but did pause it. One theory as to what might
be happening. Want to guess what the cops theorized. I
don't even have a guess. No, they believed it could
(19:31):
have been someone checking to see if the cats were
spade or neuters.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Oh okay, it was always the belly, it seemed in
this case.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Yes, okay, So how do you do that?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Why would that work? Looking at the scars? I guess scars? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Does this mean if a cat had no scars they'd
take it a step further and spay or neuter the cat.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
They would kill the cat. They would just have to
kill the cat. There's nothing else you can do, absolutely
no other options.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Lest you think this is only something that troubled American
teens would do. I offer you this twenty twenty three
report from ITV in the UK.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
To the mystery surrounding what cat owners have described as
a disturbing space of attacks on their pets. There are
more than fifty reports of pet cats having had their
furs shaven off across the southeast of England.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
More than fifty reports.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Isn't it funny how just her accent alone gives so
much more credence to like the nightly news, Like over here,
it just seems so performative. But that just because of
an accent, We're like, this is real news.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Oh you know, you're right, Like every one of ours
makes Anchorman seem like a documentary exactly.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Then you hear a British accent, You're like, shut up,
something important is being told to us.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
So that Anchor goes on to Warren that it could
become quote a daily occurrence.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Oh my god.
Speaker 6 (20:57):
Coco has always been a playful, happy cat who liked
her tummy being tickled until she was attacked two days ago.
Speaker 7 (21:05):
I was stroking her and then felt kind of this
stubbly area on her tummy, and I actually realized that
they've actually shaved the insides of their thighs and her
tummy area as well.
Speaker 6 (21:19):
Since the shaving, Coco has been unsettled and become reclusive.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Man, I'm sorry that I'm laughing at that, But what
that makes me think you did it? I mean, it's
exactly what you said.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
It's the toad, the accent, the tone that makes it
seem like they're taking it so serious.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
It's just like, this is so much more real and dramatic.
Speaker 8 (21:41):
But over here tonight we've got cats getting shored. What
are Presley saying about it? Right after these messages and
like you're like, all right, no.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
That seemed like, I mean the close up of the
cat's face as they were saying the cat had become
unsettled and reclusive.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
But these cats have such a different struggle. You're like
immediately like, oh my god, yeah, i gotta say. It
does seem evil, the element of learning that it changes
the cat's psyche. It's like, Okay, that's one, why are
you doing this? But two now it's got an evil
element to it where you're like, oh, you're like fucking
(22:18):
with these cats' brains again.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
We're applying human emotions to cats. Here, but so with
the news people.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
That's right, that's right, and I look at it. I
don't even like cats, and I'm here to vending cats
and not just these cats, the musical cats, anything involving cats.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
In the case of these cats in Kent, the shavings
were more random. The shaver or shavers targeted different areas.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Of the many cats.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
There were bellies, sure, but also backs, sides, legs. An
organization called Animals Lost and Found in Kent went so
far as to map the attacks in twenty twenty four
and counted as many It was one hundred and seventeen,
stretching from the south of England all the way to Scotland.
Natasha McPhee, director of the organization, said on fortunately we
have no idea why anyone would do this. There was
(23:03):
once an elderly ladies shaving cats that would come into
her garden, but she was cautioned and stopped. I doubt
she's traveling the UK shaving cats. Well, I'm not a
crazy large country, you know, England. Just to just England alone,
could you could really get around and really work a
number on a lot of cats. It always starts with
(23:24):
one too, right, like that lady's got to be on
the suspect list.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
The drug kicks in, you know what I mean, you're
gonna let's go one town over, suddenly you're an hour away.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
I mean, I also doubt it was her, but that
would make a great BBC limited series. You're right, whatever
is happening here, Rory, I think we can agree this
is creepy as hell.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Yeah to even want to do this, Yeah, it's I
don't know the belly. It's got a serial killer vibe
to it with no murder.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
The thing about these cat atacks in England, they're still
going on because earlier this year the problem flared up
again as more cats in the South of England were
targeted by this mysterious weirdo or Weirdo's.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
The South Holland.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Police released a statement. It has been brought to the
attention of the local policing team that some cats have
been returning to owners addresses in the morning with parts
of their fur having been shaven off. This appears to
be in the Pinchback area. There's also been a case
of this in Curtain near Boston. The motivation behind this
is not known. The cats do not appear physically harmed,
and the shaven areas appears to be small and caused
(24:24):
by some form of hair clippers.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Don't they have like CCTV everywhere? Like, don't they No
one's got anything on this, apparently not. It seems insane.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
The wildest and most disturbing theory I found was that
these cats were somehow being marked for future injury, perhaps
to be killed, which is some very dark shit.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
That now it's getting a little that's a little too far, now, wow,
I mean, I don't have a theory here, do you?
I have no theory at all. Like if this is
someone's like weird thing they just do with cats, it's
like what, I don't know. It's so confusing. Well, at
(25:06):
least the local.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Cops are delivering a stern warning to these cat shaving sickos.
This police statement comes from a story with the headline
police tell people to stop shaving cats.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I was about to make the joke. Police give stern warning,
Hey cut it out, greatly misinterpreted crime continues.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
They also said, quote this behavior is completely unacceptable. Whatever
the motivation behind this is, it's not something that should
be taking place. And also this is not a bit
of fun and needs to stop now, which.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
All sounds like something seems like it seems like someone
who knows someone's in trouble, but they don't even really
know what they did. All right, Well, change and be better.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
I guess I should have done that in a British accent?
Can you do in a British accent?
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Cut it out? This is not a bit of fun.
These kissy cats. Leave these kitty cats.
Speaker 8 (26:01):
Be we let you drink outside of pubs on public
sidewalks with glass pint glasses.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Can't that be enough?
Speaker 3 (26:12):
So, whether it's a crime or not, the British cat
attacks are still unsolved. So get after it crime less nation, Yeah,
get after.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
It solved, or hire that don't fuck with Cats team
from that documentary those people did. Like that was insane research.
Those people did that documentary I did. And that guy
was a killer and they got him. That guy was
a murderer. They should be able to get this guy.
That's I think this would be even easier. Season two,
(26:41):
Season two, Stop Shaving Cats by Josh the Wet Owl Dean.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
All right, after the break our final segment.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
This is crimeless Lane.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
What's our final segment?
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Lane's game?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
So I have more of a rabbit hole than a game.
But I have one question I'm going to ask you,
so don't completely check out.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
I love that when we get to Lane's games, Lane
goes more of a rabbit hole.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Here we go, I'm in the driver's team.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Now we go where I say.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
I've got this theory about the twenty twenty elections.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
So a fun fact from the Crime List staff is
Josh and I both lived around Namish Country.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Josh remind me where western Maryland, Western Pennsylvania, eastern Ohio district. Like, basically,
the Amish were in southwestern Pennsylvania, Okay.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
And I grew up about fifteen minutes outside of Sugar Creek, Ohio,
which is due with a gateway to Amish Country, Okay,
which means over the years there's been a lot of
like tourism popping up, lots of there's like new hotels, restaurants, shops,
and a five hundred seat theater. And in twenty sixteen,
this is when it opened. They were one of the
(27:59):
first performances was a musical called Josiah for President. And
this musical I drove by this billboard so many times
and it was just like an image of an Amish
man in front of the White House with his horse
and buggy, and I was always like, what the fuck,
what is this? This can't be real. So I'm very
(28:20):
grateful to Crime List because I finally got to get
to the bottom of what this musical was about. And
I want to share a video with you.
Speaker 9 (28:29):
Yes, okay, Yes, I am Congressman Mark Steedman, And as
you know, I have withdrawn my candidacy for President of
the United States. The man I am endorsing will take
America back back to basics, back to what is important
in life. I am endorsing Josiah for President.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I am in shock. This is not a daily show sketch.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
This is so real.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
And you're telling me that you drove passed this all
the time and never once bought a ticket to go
see Wow Wow. I mean, because that was an extended
run there, March, April, May, June, July. Come on. It
also begs the question what act could follow that It's
always going to be Josiah for Commissioner, Josiah for comptroller comptroller.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
So yeah, you get the gist of it. A presidential
candidate drops out, taps this amish man, Josiah runs on
a plane truce platform, and the question is asked, can
he heal a broken nation? And that would be all
a broken nation? Twenty twelve when this book was written,
the musicals based off any questions before I move on
about Josiah.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Is the soundtrack available streaming anywhere?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Nope, but you can buy it on eBay for ninety dollars.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
And I will.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Okay, did an Amish person write this?
Speaker 1 (29:54):
No? Just a woman even better.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Because they'd have to write it on paper because they can't.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Right. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Also I like that. I asked was it an homage person?
He said, no, just a woman. Nope, it was a woman.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Okay. So yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
This has been running for like a decade now and
I've only read positive reviews for it, and I found
one that Rory, I was wondering if you could read
for us in your best Southern accent, which I know
you have.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Is he doing this? Is? What region? Is this?
Speaker 3 (30:26):
South Carolina, Georgia, Florida.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
This means from Michigan, but I think.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
A southern action, but southern makes the most sense. Yeah.
I'm not much of a fan of live plays. At
age seventy seven and a half, I would rather honestly
sit at home at my computer and look at what
I will you know what I want to watch in
my computer chair and hot pad to sue, then aching back,
then go about anywhere else. But my sweetheart of forty
(30:51):
two years yes on June nineteenth, twenty twenty four, wanted
me to take her to the play at Shipshee for
our four second wedding anniversary. So I took her there
from Grand Rapids Mish with my making back slash leg
numbness issues, and it was a hot ninety eight degrees outside,
(31:14):
so the air conditioning was not the coldest for me,
though it was fine for my sweetie. I started feeling
like leaving and taking a nap might be a better
use of my time. I'm so glad I did it. However,
the play takes a very intriguing twist as it comes
to an end which I dare not give away. Just
(31:37):
want to say that for an old country redneck not
into musical plays, I would give this one one hundred
out of one hundred likes. So again I would just
like to reiterate my score here is one one hundred
(31:59):
out of one one hundred likes, which many could interpret
as the lowest score.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Also out of one hundred likes, not a unit of
measure for popularity.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
That I use a lot.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
How many of one hundred likes would you give it?
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah? Hundred?
Speaker 2 (32:19):
So your single question for the day is something that
Norm brought up. What is the very intriguing twist that
is great? Josiah does win the election, so that's not
the twist.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yes he has to I have multiple.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Choice, but I'm willing to hear your theories.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
All right, here you go. First, he wins the election
and we find out this whole time he was an
undercover cop. But let me finish one of those AI cops. Wait,
what year was this?
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Twenty twelve is when it was written.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
All right, forget the AI thing. Undercover cop stays.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
My twist is he grows a mustache and declares war
on Canada. Smart Smart wants the mustache. He doesn't have
to be a pacifist anymore. Finally, all right, give us
the multiple choice because I'm sure that I was right
and Rora was not.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
None of those are right.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
If this musical is written by an Amish man, believe
you me, undercover cop would have been the ending.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Too bad it was a woman.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
It was a woman who has a more practical storyline
that fits the ending.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Okay, so is the twist A During Josiah's Rumspringer, he
was arrested for a hit and run while driving a
stolen vehicle. His opponents leak this to the press, ruining
his wholesome reputation in chances of reelection. That's a b.
Josiah's bishop urges him to drop out of the race,
saying his candidacy will bring shame to his community and
(33:56):
dilute his faith. But when Josiah wins the election, the
bishop is close to shunning him, So Josiah resigns from
office and returns home or c. After the State of
the Union address, President Josiah is assassinated by a deranged blogger.
He dies outside the Capitol Building in his wife's arms.
She does not ride in the ambulance with him because
(34:19):
she is Amish and it is a car that's see.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Okay, But before we guess, Josh, I would just like
to point out again this reviewer, based on one of
those three options thought one hundred out of one hundred.
Now I know, Josh, you've sat here and you heard
all three potential endings, and zero of them sound one
hundred out of one hundred.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Well, to be fair, I'm not familiar with the one
hundred like scale.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
So oh my god, I what blew this guy's mind.
I'm going to go with the assassination because it seems
like that would be the most Oh my god. Maybe
the production of the assassination was significant, That's my guess.
The others are kind of like, why would that guy
be so blown away by that?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Yeah, the like disappointed bishop, but I.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Feel like that. But the twist at the end what
the bishop is judgmental.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
I'm going assassination too.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
It is assassination. It is assassination. He is shot by
a by a blogger whose name is storm Cloud four four,
which seems weird.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Not also, just to be very clear, not the online
profile name. That person's real name is storm Cloud for four.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Oh you've read the book too.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I'm a big fan of Josiah goes to Washington.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
As I have a president.
Speaker 8 (35:50):
Ye.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
So he's shot and he dies of his wife's arms,
but she refuses to.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Get in the ambulance. The ambulance Yeah, like, do you have.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
A horse powered ambulance that we could take?
Speaker 1 (35:59):
I would go see this I would go see this
show if I was in town. How you were able
to avoid it? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
I was in college at the time, you know, I was,
I was above theater.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
I think it's got one hundred out of one hundred likes.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Somebody is going to hear this, and we're gonna remake.
We're gonna bring We're gonna do Josiah too.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Just yeah, this is going to be a film before
you know it. Crap.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Let's you know what, Rory, do you want to be Josiah?
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Yes, obviously, you guys just got to reverse the mustache
to Beard.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
I'll do whatever Hollywood needs. H you'd make a good Josiah.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I think, thank you, thank you for coming down this
rabbit hole with me. I feel like I could I
could breathe again.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yeah. This felt more therapeutic for you than a quiz.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Yeah it really was.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Crime Less is a production of SmartLess Media, Campside Media,
and Big Money Players in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. It's
hosted by Rory Scovel and me Josh Dean. Our senior
producer is Lane Rose. Emma Simonov is our associate producer.
We're sound designed and engineered by Blake Brook with support
from Ewan letram Ewen Mark McAdam composed.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Our theme song.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
The executive producers at Campside Media are Vanessa Gregoriatis, Matt
Cher and me Josh Dean. The executive producers for iHeart
Podcasts and Big Money Players are Jack O'Brien, Lindsay Hoffmans,
and Matt Appadaka. For SmartLess Media, the executive producers are
Will Arnette, Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, and Richard Corson. Bernie
(37:42):
Kaminski is head of Production. The associate producer is Mattie McCann.
A special thanks to our operations team, Ashley Warren and
Sabina Marra. Do you have a question, comment, or confession
for the Crimeless team, Email us at Crimeless at campsidmedia
dot com and if you enjoyed Crimeless, please rate and
review the show wherever you.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Get your podcasts.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
It helps people find the show and also makes us
feel validated, unless you're mean, in which.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Case keep it to yourself. We'll see you next week.
Crime List Nations
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