May 19, 2021 • 49 mins
We’ve covered over fifty broads on this podcast, from serial killers and cult leaders to lady lawyers and forensic artists. But their stories don’t end when the episode does. Today we’re taking a look at what some of our most infamous broads—Amy Bishop, Jasmuheen, Caril Ann Fugate, and more—have been doing lately. This episode contains everything from war crimes to nine nights spent in a dark cave with a “guru.” Buckle up.
EPISODES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: 46 (Sister Abhaya), 6 (Beatrice Munyenyezi), 43 (Amy Bishop), 4 (Jasmuheen), 8 (Caril Ann Fugate), 19 (Anne Hamilton-Byrne), 11 (Phoolan Devi), 18 (Griselda Blanco), 47 (Casey Anthony), 36 (Suzane von Richthofen), 33 (Kathy Kleiner), 8 (Belle Gunness), 12 (Tilly Devine), 42 (Marie Dean Arrington).
Want to send some money to Lloyd Dean? Venmo me @tori-telfer (or Paypal/Chase Quickpay: toritelfer@gmail.com), note that it’s for LLOYD DEAN, and let’s get him a nice little gift!
Thanks to Darius Johnson for reading Lloyd Dean’s letter!
Read Amy Bishop’s short story here: https://pen.org/man-of-few-words/
***
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Is it a sin?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Is it a crime?
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Loving you dear like I do.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
If it's a crime, then I'm guilty, guilty of loving you.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Hi, Welcome to Criminal Broad's a true crime podcast about
wild women on the wrong side of the law. I'm
Tory Telfer, author of Lady Killers and Confident Women, and
I've been doing this podcast on and off for about
three years. During that time, we have covered multiple women,
from war criminals to cult leaders, to forensic artists, to
(00:44):
lady lawyers, to wrongfully convicted women to more than one
female serial killer. Now, after you listen to these episodes,
you'll often hear me come in after the story is
done and say the end, and I'll back on a
little bit and thank my patrons, and eventually my theme
music will play you out and the episode will stop.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Right.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
But of course that's not how real life works. These
stories don't just stop even if people in question are
no longer alive. The ripple effects of these stories do
not stop rippling. And so that's what we're gonna talk
about today. I'm gonna walk you through eight episode updates today.
(01:30):
These are updates on women we've covered on this podcast.
And by the way, this episode is going to contain
several mentions of sexual assault. So I'm just warning you
now you can think of these kind of as eight
little pieces of flash fiction. They stand alone, and don't
worry if you haven't listened to the original episode, I'm
gonna remind you who everyone is. They stand alone, but
(01:51):
they're all kind of thematically related, and of course they're
not actually fiction, and I think that is going to
feel very obvious by the end. All right, ready, let's
start in India update number one. Sister Abayah. Sister Abiah
(02:24):
was a Catholic nun from India who was found dead
in a well in the year nineteen ninety two. We
covered her in episode forty six. It took almost thirty
years for her killers to be convicted. They were just
convicted actually, right at the end of twenty twenty. Her
killers were a priest and a nun who were engaged
in a illicit activity, possibly even a threesome, although there
(02:48):
wasn't enough evidence to convict a second priest, so they
were engaged in this illicit activity. When Sister Abiah accidentally
walked in on them, The priest and the nun panicked,
strangled her and threw her body into the well. For decades,
the police kept trying to declare that Sister Abiah's death
was a suicide, and it seems pretty obvious that behind
(03:10):
the scenes for those decades, the Catholic Church was trying
to hush things up. After all, the whole scenario was
a terrible look for the church, and that's why it
took thirty years for any sort of justice to happen
in the Sister Abia case. It's a bizarre story, right,
a killer priest and a nun, a body found in
(03:31):
a well. But if you can believe it, Sister Abiah's
death was not an isolated incident. Since her death, there
have been more than twenty other nuns in India who
have died mysteriously. Many of them have been found in wells.
(03:51):
Just this year, on April sixteenth, a forty two year
old nun named Sister Mabel Joseph was found in a
well and there was a suicide note in her room
saying that she was killing herself because of health problems.
Some news reports show a photo of her body being
lifted out of the well in a giant net. You
(04:12):
can see her white. Nun's habit all wrapped around her
soaked with water? Was it a suicide? Though? People are suspicious,
just like they were suspicious with the Sister Abayah case,
just like they're suspicious with other similar cases. On February fourteenth,
(04:32):
Sister Jessina Thomas was found floating in a quarry. In
twenty eighteen, Susama Matthews was found in her convents well
with cuts on her wrist and a trail of blood
leading back up to her room. Suicide or murder? Suicide
or murder. The debate rages on these incidents hint at
(04:54):
a deeper darkness within the Indian Catholic Church. There's a
culture of rape in the church, a secret culture that
is mostly hushed up. This culture emerged into the light
in twenty eighteen when the first bishop in Indian Catholic
history was arrested in a rape case. His name was
Franco Mulakal. It's hard not to wonder if the nuns
(05:17):
are being killed because of something they saw, like Sister Abiah,
or if they're killing themselves because of something they suffered
at the hands of a bishop or a priest like Franco.
What does it mean? What does it all mean? The
nuns found in wells. Is it just a coincidence? The
(05:39):
deaths continue, and still the church is silent. Update number
two Beatrice Munyanezi. In one of our very earliest Criminal
(05:59):
Broad's episodes, episode six, we covered the unusual case of
Beatrice Munyonesi. In nineteen ninety eight, Beatrice came to the
US from Rwanda, and she told immigration officials that she
had been persecuted in her home country. This was a lie,
and especially sinister lie, because Beatrice had been the one
(06:22):
doing the persecution. She had been one of the rarest
types of female criminals, a female war criminal. She had
been involved in the Rwandan genocide, which was a massacre
of the Rwandan minority ethnic group called the Tutsi. Some
six hundred thousand people were brutally killed, and Beatrice was
(06:43):
responsible for some of those deaths. She would stand at
a roadblock with her husband and she would look at
people's identity cards as they tried to pass through. Allegedly,
if she saw that they were Tutsi, she would condemn
them to death, and if she saw that they were women,
she would command her guards to rape them first. Beatrice
(07:07):
lived peacefully in the US for a while with her
false story of persecution, but eventually her real identity was
discovered and in twenty thirteen, she was imprisoned in the
US for lying about her role in the genocide. But
of course, lying on immigration forms was in no way
her most serious crime. Beatrice still hasn't answered for those
(07:30):
most serious crimes, but she's about to. Just a few
weeks ago, she was deported to Rwanda, and when she
arrived in her home country after decades away, she was
arrested immediately. She's about to stand trial again. She's now
charged with the following crimes murder as genocide, conspiracy to
(07:53):
commit genocide, planning of genocide, complicity in genocide, in excitement
to commit genocide, extermination, and complicity in rape. It has
been twenty seven years since Beatrice's war crimes. It's been
almost as long as it has been since sister a
(08:15):
Bio was murdered. Sometimes justice moves agonizingly slow, and the
family members of Beatrice's victims, if any of them survived
the genocide, wait and wait.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Let's take a little break to hear from.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
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Have you ever experienced this little thing called a racing,
panicking mind that you can't turn off? Is it maybe
linked to the fact that we've been in a global
pandemic for the last year plus and we feel like
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And also we're still listening to true crime podcasts like
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Sundayscaries dot com. They're freaking amazing. Update number three, Amy Bishop.
(11:35):
If Beatrice Munionezi was an extremely rare sort of criminal,
so was Amy Bishop. She was a female mass shooter.
You don't see her sort on the news much. We
talked about her in episode forty three. Amy was a
professor at the University of Alabama in Huntsville who thought
that she was a genius, and so when she didn't
(11:57):
get tenure, she brought a gun into a faculty meeting
and opened fire. She killed three of her colleagues and
wounded three more. Now you may remember from the episode
that this wasn't the first time Amy had fired a gun.
When she was twenty one, she killed her beloved younger brother, Seth,
who was eighteen. To this day, Amy and her parents
(12:20):
insist that it was an accident, that the gun had
gone off unintentionally, that Amy didn't mean to do it. Today,
I have two updates on Amy Bishop. One is kind
of hilarious. The other is unbearably sad. So when I
was working on her episode earlier this year, I emailed
(12:42):
the reporter Patrick Radden Keith. Now he was the one
who wrote that fantastic profile of Amy for The New Yorker,
which was one of my main sources. Anyway, he sent
me a mysterious link saying that it was quote something
new and interesting that nobody seems to have picked up
on yet. I clicked on the link and was shocked
by what I saw. Amy Bishop had won a writing prize.
(13:07):
Amy always wanted to be a famous writer. Remember, she
was part of a writing group before she was arrested,
and she wrote multiple semi autobiographical novels, and she talked
to Big Talk about how she had an agent and
how she was going to be super successful. I wouldn't
say she's a super successful writer now. But at the
end of twenty twenty, she won second place in the
(13:28):
fiction category of the twenty twenty Prison Writing Contest from
Penn America. Her story was titled Man of Few Words.
Like her novels, it seems pretty clearly autobiographical. It's about
a former professor who is in prison for life for
an unspecified crime that she describes as horror. You get
(13:50):
the picture. The main character, the professor, is on the
phone with her husband on the prison phone. Her husband
tells her that one of their female friends is getting divorced.
She tells him that it's okay to pursue a relationship
with this female friend, that it's okay to marry her,
that he should be able to find love again without her,
(14:11):
and so on. As she tells him this, she feels horrible,
but she pushes past her feelings for his sake because
she knows that it's the right thing to do. The
story takes place over the prison phone. In conversations between
the woman and her husband, they reminisce about going to
a Native American pow wow when they were first dating,
(14:32):
and by the end of the story, the husband is
taking his new girlfriend to the same pow wow, and
he calls his wife so that she can hear the
celebration over the phone. I was very judgmental of the
story as I started to read it. I mean, we're
talking about a story written by a mass shooter here.
This is not my favorite sort of person. And Amy Bishop,
(14:54):
as you probably remember, is just so arrogant Here's the
brief mention that she gives to her crimes in this story,
and I quote for ten seconds that I thankfully don't remember.
I became horror. I a law constrained mother and assistant
professor of biology am in Tuttweiler Prison, Buttthole, Alabama, on
(15:18):
Life without Parole. I just hated that line so much
when I read it for ten seconds that I thankfully
don't remember. I became horror talk about underplaying the time
you slaughtered three people. And then I kept reading and
I moved from judgment to mocking laughter. There are moments
(15:40):
in this story that are so overwritten. My favorite AA
least favorite is the time that Amy writes about vaginas
using the language of Homer. Here's the paragraph, My jealousy rages,
and I wish I could recall my words of release,
but I can't. It's the right thing to do to
let my ford something husband to find someone with whom
(16:02):
to spend his life. Jack should not grow old alone,
his blue eyes going white with cataracts, without ever having
seen again the wine dark flower of a woman. In
case you don't know what I or Amy is talking about,
Homer often uses the phrase wine dark Sea in the
(16:22):
Iliad and the Odyssey. So first I was judging this story,
and then I was mocking. But then I reached the
end of the piece and I had to admit that
Amy Bishop had actually written something that felt emotionally true.
By the end of the story, she really does manage
to convey what it must be like to be in
(16:43):
prison for life, trying to release your husband so that
he can find happiness again, and just writhing with jealousy
as you do it. It sounds brutal. She writes about
being on the phone and hearing her kids having fun
in the background, and she screams into the prison phone,
I love you, hoping that they'll hear her. That moment
(17:07):
felt so real and heartbreaking that I have to say
it kind of put a lump in my throat. I
think she might deserve that second place prize just for that.
So that's the first update on Amy. The second one
is so much sadder. Remember how Amy's brother, Seth died
(17:28):
of a gunshot when he was eighteen years old. Years later,
when Amy herself had a son, she named him Seth.
And now that Seth Seth Junior is dead. He died
of a gunshot wound. Just a few weeks ago, on
April nineteenth, he was twenty years old. He was shot
(17:51):
by a friend who has been charged with reckless murder.
And what's reckless murder? If you can believe it? Reckless
murder is a charge that incl scludes things like accidentally
firing off a gun. Now, it's easy to laugh when
Amy references Homer in her stories, but there's this Homeric
(18:14):
tragedy to her life that seems impossible for her family
to escape. It's like she's living under a curse, or
she is the curse. Update number four Jazz Mohen. Let's
(18:40):
move on to a lighter topic. Do you all remember
Jazz Mahine. She was the subject of episode four of
Criminal Broads and she has been on my mind ever
since twenty eighteen when I first discovered her wicked ways.
I am obsessed with her story because I think she's
so sinister and she'll never admit it. In fact, she
paints herself as a really, really evolved person. Jazz Mahine
(19:03):
is a Britherian. She claims that she doesn't need food
to live, and multiple people have died after following her teachings.
But she rarely comments on these deaths because they're obviously
horrible for her brand. If she does comment on them,
she just says that these people weren't doing the Britherian
(19:24):
thing right. Today, Jazz Machine refuses any scientific testing of
her teachings, but back in the day she did try
to get science to verify her. She went on the
Australian TV show Sixty Minutes and she agreed to be
filmed round the clock in order to prove that she
didn't need to eat or drink. After four days of filming,
her pulse was high, her blood pressure was down, and
(19:46):
she'd lost about thirteen pounds. She was talking strangely, she
was slurring a bit, and the doctor on call was
basically like, you are going to die if you keep
this up, and so they stopped filming. Later, Jamhine emailed
out a press release that read, what appears to be
delusion to some is simply a preferable reality to others.
(20:08):
For without our dreams and visions, humanity has no hope.
So what's Jazz Mohine up to today? Is she still
talking about eating air and surviving only on prana? Oh? Yes,
she keeps up a strong online presence with Facebook posts
that I can only describe as word salad. Here's one
(20:30):
of them. I think we are all understanding the power
we each have to step out of the holograms of limitation,
as we have entered a time where this is more
powerful a choice than ever before. Hence, we offer all
that we do here to support this in the most
nourishing way, For we are all gifted with the ability
to anchor in the zone of reality of our choice.
As per our first course that we offered. Did you
(20:51):
catch that word course? Oh? Yes? There are plenty of
ways to give Jazz Mohine your money. For about four bucks,
you can buy the Law of Life, Love and its
fabulous frequency of freedom. For a bit more, you can
purchase Relationship and Network's upgrades, meditation, and if you want
to spend about two hundred and fifty dollars at her store,
(21:12):
you can buy a course that teaches you all about
living a life of effortless, ease and grace. Now, I'm
not going to say that the pandemic hasn't affected jas Machine. Sadly,
it's caused her to pause something she's calling her annual
darkroom retreats. These retreats are a place where you can
(21:33):
tune in to the quote pronic living lifestyle and the
source feeding reality. As usual, Jazz Mahine uses very vague,
distracting terminology when describing things, possibly so no one can
come after her for the multiple deaths that Herbertherian teachings
have at least indirectly been involved with. Anyway, what are
(21:53):
these retreats, you ask, Oh, they are the once in
a lifetime chance to spend nine days and nine nights
in a completely dark cave with Jazz mohen by your side.
I mean, ken, you put a price on that during
these nine days and nights you will quote live like
yogis and apply powerful life enhancing methodology of interdimensional energy
(22:17):
field science. If that's not the most terrifying thing you've
ever heard, then be of good cheer. Jazzmohine dot com
promises we hope to resume these as soon as we can.
In the meantime, we have our powerful online training programs.
There are plenty of links on the page where you
can click to buy them. Update number five Carol Anne Fugate.
(22:58):
Carol Ane Fugate was only fourteen years old when she
was arrested along with her boyfriend, the spree killer Charles
Starkweather Charlie murdered eleven people, including three of Carroll's family members,
in the late nineteen fifties. Carol went to prison, Charlie
went to the electric chair. We covered them in episode eight.
(23:20):
People have always always disagreed about whether Carol was guilty
or innocent. Was she a sweet, naive fourteen year old
forced along on a murder spree by her controlling, abusive
older boyfriend, or did she herself have the heart of
a murderer. Charlie always said that she was culpable. He
claimed that she'd killed some of their victims herself, and
(23:41):
he famously said that if he were going to the
electric chair, Carol ann should be sitting on his lap.
That quote was so iconic that Bruce Springsteen put it
in a song, Sheriff, when the man pulls that switch,
sir and snaps my poor head back, he sings, you
make sure my pretty baby is and right there on
my lap. But Carol has insisted that she was innocent
(24:06):
from the moment she was arrested. Her side of the
story is that she never knew that Charlie had killed
her family. Instead, she says that he used them to
threaten her, saying that he would kill them if she
didn't come along with him. She was given life in prison,
but she was paroled after seventeen years. Since her parole,
(24:26):
Carol has kept a low profile, but sometimes she'll resurface
to keep arguing that she's innocent. In nineteen ninety six,
she applied for a pardon. Here's what a pardon does.
According to law dot Com, a pardon strikes the conviction
from the books as if it had never occurred, and
the convicted person is treated as innocent. The Nebraska Board
(24:48):
of Pardons refused to give her a hearing, but she
tried again recently in twenty twenty. In this second application,
she wrote, the idea that posterity has been made to
believe that I knew about and or witnessed the death
of my beloved family and left with stark Weather willingly
on a murder spree is too much for me to
(25:08):
bear anymore. Receiving a pardon may somehow alleviate this terrible burden.
The Board of Pardons once again denied her. That is
not the role of the pardons board. One member said,
we can't come in and alleviate the burden she feels
for this case. Family members of the victims expressed different opinions.
(25:30):
People are always expressing different opinions about Carol. The cousin
of one victim said, I can't express in words how
overjoyed and happy I am that she did not get pardoned.
The granddaughter of two victims had a different take. I
have met her and she has cried in my arms,
and I have cried in her arms, said the granddaughter.
And she feels damned pain. You can bet it this
(25:53):
woman has been in pain all her life. I'm not
sure we'll ever know exactly how the story went back
in the fifties. As they say, there's Charlie's side of
the story, and there's Carol's side of the story, and
perhaps the truth is in a third version that will
never access. But it's interesting to see how people react
to Carol. I did a talk recently and I asked
(26:14):
audience members if they had any true crime anecdotes to
share with me, and one of them, Judy, emailed me afterwards.
She had some thoughts on Carol. Having grown up in Lincoln, Nebraska,
we all thought Carol Anne Fugate was a definite con
artist to the umph degree. Judy wrote, she wanted us
the public to believe that she was actually the victim,
(26:36):
when in fact it did become known that not only
was she responsible for killing several people, but perhaps even
derived pleasure from doing so. So that's how a lot
of people felt in Nebraska at the time and still
feel to this day. Judy also shared another anecdote from
those days, one that I found especially spooky. Charlie Starkweather
(26:59):
was electrocuted, she wrote, and the night of several friends
and I were talking to each other via our kitchen
wall phones, our overhead lights in our respective kitchens. Dimming
(27:24):
Update number six. Anne Hamilton Burn. We talked about the
cult leader Anne Hamilton Burn in episode nineteen. Anne was
an nefarious cult leader who styled herself as Jesus and
adopted slash stole multiple children who she abused and forced
to take lsd pretending it was a spiritual experience, and
(27:46):
she pretty much got away with it all. By the
time people knew about her crimes, much of the evidence
had vanished. When our episode aired on February thirteenth, twenty nineteen,
Anne was in her nineties and suffering from dementia. All
of her answers and explanations and excuses were now locked
away inside her forever, and four months later she passed
(28:09):
away at the age of ninety seven. One of her
adopted sons, Ben Shenton, wrote of her death, it's hard
to feel grief or sadness at her passing from this
temporal world because of the broken families, suicides, drug addictions
and overdoses, the financial crippling of everyone who gave to her.
(28:30):
It was like a black hole that people gravitated to
and had the life sucked out of them. A detective
who worked on her case but who could never bring
her to prison said, I have spoken with a number
of her children, and a number of them feel relieved
like I do. I've shed not one tear. As a
matter of fact, when she passed away on Friday, it
(28:50):
was one of the best days of my life. Anne
had always presented herself as immortal, and she got the
facelifts and wore them wigs to prove it, to show
that she never aged. But in the end she was
just like the rest of us, mortal. Rosie Jones, a
filmographer who actually came on this podcast to talk about Anne,
(29:14):
visited Anne in her nursing home and called it an
extraordinary encounter. She was dressed beautifully in blue and still
had long silver hair. Rosie told The Guardian her speech
was mostly incoherent, but she sat there nursing a plastic
baby doll. She held the doll so tenderly, so gently.
(29:36):
I found it incredibly powerful to witness Update number seven
(30:01):
Poulan dev Of all the broads I've covered, the one
who's gotten the best reaction from you all has got
to be Pulan Devi, the bandit queen of episode eleven.
No other broad has elicited such admiration from my listeners.
So when he cries of hell, yes, it's been years
since we've talked about her, so let me refresh your memory.
(30:23):
Poulan was an Indian girl born into extreme poverty in
rural Uttar Pradesh. She was feisty and she was punished
for it. She was in a lower cast and she
was punished for it. She was a girl and she
was punished for it. Poulan was married off when she
was eleven. She endured repeated rapes, not just from her
creepy older husband, but also from the higher cast men
(30:45):
in her village. But remember, she was feisty, and so
she ran off and joined a group of bandits. But
even bandits have hierarchies. There were cast tensions in her gang,
and there were jealousy, and eventually the gang splintered and fought,
and the bad half of the gang kidnapped Poulan and
(31:06):
took her to a nearby village called Behmi. There, for
the next three weeks she was raped and beaten and
paraded around naked by the upper cast men of the village.
She eventually managed to escape, and she formed a new gang,
but she never forgot what had happened to her at Behmei,
(31:29):
and so on February fourteenth, nineteen eighty one, Poulan and
her bandits returned, lined up twenty of the upper cast
men of the village and opened fire. Fast forward twenty years,
Poulan was now famous, beloved. People thought of her as Robinhood,
even though she might not have actually ever given any
(31:49):
money to the poor. As her bandit career came to
an end, she negotiated with the authorities and she got
herself and her fellow bandits a pretty decent deal. She
spent about ten years in prison, and then she embarked
on a political career. Eventually she was even elected to
be a member of parliament. Like I said, people loved her.
(32:09):
But if Poulan never forgot what she had suffered, other
people never forgot what she had done. And in the
heat of the afternoon on July twenty sixth, two thousand
and one, three masked men pulled up outside Pulan's house
and opened fire. She was shot nine times. It was revenge,
they said, for the massacre at Bechmei twenty years earlier.
(32:34):
It has now been forty years since the Bethmi massacre
and no one has ever been officially found guilty for
the murders. It wasn't until twenty twelve that anyone was
even charged for the murders. A court charged Pulan, who
was already dead, and twenty two of her banditmn Today
only seven of the accused are alive, and three of
(32:55):
those seven are missing. The court was supposed to give
a verdict in January twenty two twenty, but then some
important paperwork went missing and the verdict was postponed yet again.
If you read Poulan's memoir, the Bechmi massacre is a
moment of great relief of delicious vengeance. Of course, she
killed them. These men did unspeakable things to her. But
(33:18):
then if you listen to the villagers of Behmi who
survived the massacre, a different narrative emerges. They say that
Poulan killed men at random, not simply the men who
raped her. Some of the men that she killed were
just boys eleven and twelve years old. On the one hand,
of course, she returned to the village of her nightmare
(33:40):
and rained down fire on them. And yet a man
named Raja ram Saying lost two of his brothers in
the massacre, one of his cousins and three of his nephews.
Our village witnessed twenty cremations on a single day. He
told a journalist. On that day, I was shivering like anything.
(34:03):
In the last thirty nine years, there has not been
a single day when we lived happily. Raja Rahm went
to every single court hearing and hoped to live long
enough to see a verdict. But he died in December
of twenty twenty at the age of eighty five. Still
waiting now, his son waits for him, and Pulan still
(34:25):
rests hopefully in peace. Update number eight Hollywood. If you
(34:46):
spend much time thinking about how true crime is an industry,
you probably won't be surprised to hear that there are
a number of new books and movies about our criminal
broads that are now coming out. There's a movie coming
out about Griselda Blanco, the Colombian rug queen who he
covered in episode eighteen. The title of the movie is
The Godmother, and Griselda is being played by none other
(35:08):
than Jennifer Lopez. J LO says, I've been fascinated by
the life of this corrupt and complicated woman for many years.
And Griselda's surviving son, Michael wrote on Instagram, so happy
to hear that this is going to happen finally. J
Lo is una patrona. It's only right she plays my mother,
the late Great Griselda. I'm pretty sure that una patrona
(35:30):
means something along the lines of the boss, but Spanish
speaking listeners let me know if there's a better translation.
Moving right along, there's yet another TV show coming out
about Casey Anthony Episode forty seven's subject. This one is
by Lifetime. It's called Sell Me Secrets, and it'll focus
on Casey's case as well as stories like Drew Peterson
(35:50):
and Chris Watts Shocker shocker. As we've seen by now,
the appetite for these famous stories is almost literally bottomless.
Let's travel down to Brazil for a moment. Remember episode
thirty six on Susan Vandrichtolfen, the rich white Brazilian girl
who convinced her boyfriend and his brother to bludgeon her
parents to death. Now there are two movies coming out
(36:13):
about her in Brazil, one from her perspective and one
from her boyfriend's perspective. I have a lot of Brazilian
readers because my first book, Lady Killers was translated into
Portuguese not to brag, and so I reached out to
them to get a sense of how people were feeling
about the movies. Because now this maybe obvious, but sometimes
it's easy to forget, and it's also really interesting. Other
(36:34):
countries don't always feel the same way that America does
about true crime as a genre. So here's what they said.
Multiple people described a sense in Brazil that people don't
want to keep thinking about this case. They want to
forget about it. Brazil is a really conservative country. People
don't like to talk about crimes and things like that said.
Andre Kelly says that rumors are swirling. Some people are
(36:57):
upset because they think that the criminals are being bloude holorified,
or that they'll get some profit according to the company.
They won't, or that the movies were being made with
government money. They weren't, she writes. Malu says that people
are worried that the movie is a way to forgive Suzanne,
but that other people are excited because the main actress,
Carla Diaz, was a member of the twenty twenty one
(37:19):
cast of Big Brother. Brazil and Rafaela describes how Brazil's
true crime fans are waiting for it with anticipation. True
crime fans are waiting for the movie as we wait
for Netflix productions about Ted Bundy or Son of Sam,
you know, She writes, The real indignation is that our
justice is shit and she's and always will be a
psychopath and almost free. But she's beautiful, white, well spoken
(37:42):
and has a lot of fans here on the Internet.
She also writes that she feels bad for Suzanne's brother Andres.
He's so intelligent, She writes, I mean he has a
doctorate degree in inorganic chemistry, but every year, we hear
that he's at some clinic after another mental breakdown. Can't
even imagine his pain. Speaking of Ted Bundy, have you
(38:05):
heard that there's yet another movie coming out about him?
I believe this is officially movie number ten thousand, five
hundred and seventy six. This one stars Elijah Wood as
an FBI agent who interrogates Bundy, and as Hollywood stumbles
over themselves to release this latest Bundy film, Kathy Kleiner
is quietly working on her memoir. We heard Kathy's story
(38:28):
in her own words on episode thirty three. Kathy survived
Ted Bundy's brutal attack at the sorority chi Omega. She
was literally in the room with Bundy as he was
trying to kill her and her roommate. This would be
the first time that a Bundy survivor gets to be
the author of a traditionally published book, rather than a
(38:48):
name in the endnotes. My writer friend Emily Lukesey is
working with Kathy on this, and she texts me Kathy
is very focused on making sure all the victims are
named and included in the story. She's really carrying the
weight of thirty six shadows and the list goes on.
In Indiana, a TV crew has started filming the trailer
(39:09):
for their movie about serial killer Bell Ginnis of episode eight.
In Australia, there's a hip little restaurant named love Tilly Divine,
after the fabulous nineteen thirties crime queen we covered in
episode twelve. I was actually googling the restaurant to see
if there was anything interesting to say about it, and
I found that Gwyneth Paltrow's website Goop wrote about it.
(39:32):
Love Tilly Divine is the kind of place you think
about long after you've left, they wrote, Maybe it's the
three hundred bottle strong wine list, or the irresistible small
plates masquerading as bar snacks like pickled sardines on toast,
zucchini with walnut, and prostudo with plums, or those stool
seats by the open windows. By now, we are so
(39:56):
far from the actual crimes of Tilly Divine, from the
jail time and the weapons and the blood in the streets,
that it kind of blows my mind. Pickled sardines on toast?
Speaker 1 (40:06):
What wait?
Speaker 3 (40:07):
How how did we get here? I'm always startled by
how the lines between crime and commerce overlap, even though
I'm a living, breathing example of how crime and commerce
can overlap. I am always having to remind myself this
is all real. Sure, their stories and some of these
people are long gone, but it was all always real. Meanwhile,
(40:33):
in Florida, a seventy two year old black man sits
in prison. He's been there since he was nineteen. His
name is Lloyd Dean. Do you remember him. He's the
son of Marie Dean Errington, who was a murderess and
an escape artist and the second woman to make the
FBI's ten Most Wanted lists. We talked about her in
(40:54):
episode forty two. She committed her murder because she was
trying to get her son out of prison. He had
been given a life sentence for the crime of robbing
a gas station as a teenager. After our episode aired,
I wrote to Lloyd. I just felt like I wanted
to say hello. It felt weird to do an episode
(41:15):
on his mom and just ignore the fact that he
was a real person who was still alive. So I
wrote to him and he sent back a lovely note.
He told me that he and his mom wrote to
each other often when she was still alive, even though
they were both in prison. He signed it always evidence
love in your life. I sent him another note recently,
(41:37):
telling him about this very episode, and I asked if
he wanted to share anything with you all, any memory
from his life that we might like to know.
Speaker 4 (41:46):
Here's what he wrote, Dear Toy, Hi, I've received your
email and it's great to hear from us. Well, Toy,
A loving heart will never part. I'm the elder of
my mother's five children. All my life, I remember my
mom as an understanding and loving mom. She taught me
to seek one's understanding and friendship. I vividly remember the
(42:08):
first time in my life that I had seen my
mom so overjoyed. In nineteen fifty nine, when I was
ten years old and I was at school in fourth
grade and my school teacher was Miss Judlia Miller. I
was in Miss Julia Miller's class, and she was the
niece of Miss Mary McLeod Buthane, the founder of Beuthane
Cookman College. The principal called her and said my mom
(42:29):
was there and for her to come with me to
the office. So when we arrived at the office, the
principal asked me, did I devote a lot of my
time to study I told him yes. The principal asked
Miss Miller about my grades. I made all straight a's,
so Miss Miller said, I had an IQ of a
seventh grade student. The principal, Miss Miller discussed about me
(42:50):
taking the standard test. So I took the test and
I passed it. Therefore I didn't have to go through
fifth grade or sixth grade, so I knew what the
fifth grade and sixth graders knew. Why I entered junior
high at the age of eleven. Continue to have faith
in your Lord, and may all be well with your
family and peace unto you. Lloyd.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Imagine Marie's pride in her son in that moment. Imagine
Lloyd's pride in herself and his joy in seeing his
mother proud. That's a memory that stuck with him all
this time, through over half a century in prison. And
that's Marie's son. Marie Dean Arrington of episode forty two. Yeah,
(43:36):
you heard about her on a podcast, which is just
a little bit removed from everyday life, right, And I
wrote about her in a coffee shop and we all
went about our lives afterward. But everyone in that story
was real. It was all always real. Thank you for
(44:18):
listening everyone. Now, after I recorded the bulk of this episode,
I actually got one more update. This one is from
Jennifer Me, who became famous in two thousand and seven
for a long lasting case of the hiccups. The media
called her Hiccup Girl. She went on a bunch of
talk shows, and then in twenty ten she was involved
in a robbery where someone was shot and killed, and
(44:40):
she is currently serving life in Florida. So I had
promised you all in an interview with Jennifer, and we've
been working on it, but she's run into a bunch
of problems on her end. The prison keeps going on
lockdown because of COVID et cetera. Anyway, she did send
me a brief email to read to you you all
that answers a couple questions. So I didn't have time
(45:02):
to include it in the episode proper, but I'm going
to read it to you now. So this is from
Jennifer Me. She says, first and foremost, I want to
say thank you to everyone that is going to be
listening to this. So I know there are a lot
of questions that are being asked, and I want everyone
to know I appreciate it. So The first question that
was asked is how is my day to day life. Well,
I wake up at six am, take a shower, and
(45:23):
do my devotionals, then I clean my room. I'm currently
in ged trying to get my diploma, so I go
to school Monday through Thursday. If I'm not in school,
then I'm trying to find ways to get back to court.
The next question that was asked, how do I feel
about what happened in two thousand and seven with the media. Well, personally,
I feel like it was an interesting experience, but what
happened in twenty ten was never supposed to happen, and
(45:45):
it breaks my heart every day to know someone's life
was taken for no reason. The other question that was
asked is how did Corona impact my life? Well, I
have had it. It was the worst thing to have
to deal with. Our compound is still in lockdown. Two
years later. Things are just now starting to get to
normal a little bit. It has been rough last but
(46:06):
not least. People are wondering do I talk to my
co defendants. No, I don't talk to either one of them.
I do think about them and pray they're doing well.
I would like to know how they are holding up well.
Ladies and gentlemen, Thank you once again for all the support.
So that's from Jennifer me to you all, directly to
you all. Now before I let you go, I have
(46:26):
kind of a weird request for you. Give me your
money now. So I want to send a little bit
of money to Lloyd Dean, Marie Dean Arrington's son, just
because he is seventy two. You know, I just want
him to be able to like buy a few things
to make his life a little bit more comfortable. He's
been in prison for half a century for a crime
(46:49):
he committed when he was nineteen. No one died, you know.
It just makes me really sad, and he's had the
He's been very nice in corresponding with me, and I'd
like to send him a little lile bit of money.
So if anyone wants to join me, I'd be happy
to pass along your donations too. Now I'm gonna send
him money using this thing called JPay, which is a
(47:09):
way that you can send like messages and money to
incarcerated people. It's great, So if you want, you can
venmo me. My username is at Tory hyphen Telfer. I'll
put it in the show notes. If you don't have
Venmo and you want to give money, you know, email
me and we can figure out another way, and I
will compile everything and keep track of everything and send
(47:32):
it to him. I don't want to use a gofund
to me or whatever, because I you know, we're not
trying to raise like ten thousand dollars here, just a
little bit of cash to give him, And I just
think it'll be easier to do this way. A promise.
I'm not a con woman. It would be ironic if
I was given that. I've written a whole book on it.
I just if I was a con woman, I don't
think i'd write a book on it, or would I
(47:53):
is at the ultimate con No, it's not okay, So yeah,
I'll put the info in the show notes. Please feel
free to join me if you too are touched by
his situation. And speaking of Lloyd's letter that was read
by the amazing voice actor Darius Johnson, if you need
him to hire him for all your voiceover needs, I'll
(48:13):
put his website in the show notes. Okay, Last, but
not least, Hello patrons for this episode.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
Thank you to Joe s Allison b and Coriina Michelle,
whose name you may recognize from she was my co
host on our podcast Red Flags. Thanks Karina, love you,
Thank you everyone else. Patreon dot com, slash criminal Brods
if you want to support the podcast. Another great way
to support the podcast is rate and review on Apple Podcasts.
(48:40):
It's like, very very helpful if you do that. Next week,
I'm going to actually be re releasing an old episode
with a new introduction because I myself am going to
be road tripping and taking a little time off. And
then for the month of June, guys, we have a theme.
We have a theme. We're doing a single theme for
(49:01):
all of June, maybe even a bonus episode if I
can get my act together, So get excited. I'm not
going to tell you what the theme is yet, but
i'll tell you next week. All right. I hope you're
having a lovely week in that it's warming up.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Where you are or cooling.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
Down or whatever feels best. And I'll talk to you here,
same time, same place, next week. Bye bye.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Maybe I'm wrong, Maybe I'm wrong loving you deal like
I do. If it's a crime, then I'm guilty.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
Guilty.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Loving
Is it a sin?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Is it a crime?
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Loving you dear like I do.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
If it's a crime, then I'm guilty, guilty of loving you.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Hi, Welcome to Criminal Broad's a true crime podcast about
wild women on the wrong side of the law. I'm
Tory Telfer, author of Lady Killers and Confident Women, and
I've been doing this podcast on and off for about
three years. During that time, we have covered multiple women,
from war criminals to cult leaders, to forensic artists, to
(00:44):
lady lawyers, to wrongfully convicted women to more than one
female serial killer. Now, after you listen to these episodes,
you'll often hear me come in after the story is
done and say the end, and I'll back on a
little bit and thank my patrons, and eventually my theme
music will play you out and the episode will stop.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Right.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
But of course that's not how real life works. These
stories don't just stop even if people in question are
no longer alive. The ripple effects of these stories do
not stop rippling. And so that's what we're gonna talk
about today. I'm gonna walk you through eight episode updates today.
(01:30):
These are updates on women we've covered on this podcast.
And by the way, this episode is going to contain
several mentions of sexual assault. So I'm just warning you
now you can think of these kind of as eight
little pieces of flash fiction. They stand alone, and don't
worry if you haven't listened to the original episode, I'm
gonna remind you who everyone is. They stand alone, but
(01:51):
they're all kind of thematically related, and of course they're
not actually fiction, and I think that is going to
feel very obvious by the end. All right, ready, let's
start in India update number one. Sister Abayah. Sister Abiah
(02:24):
was a Catholic nun from India who was found dead
in a well in the year nineteen ninety two. We
covered her in episode forty six. It took almost thirty
years for her killers to be convicted. They were just
convicted actually, right at the end of twenty twenty. Her
killers were a priest and a nun who were engaged
in a illicit activity, possibly even a threesome, although there
(02:48):
wasn't enough evidence to convict a second priest, so they
were engaged in this illicit activity. When Sister Abiah accidentally
walked in on them, The priest and the nun panicked,
strangled her and threw her body into the well. For decades,
the police kept trying to declare that Sister Abiah's death
was a suicide, and it seems pretty obvious that behind
(03:10):
the scenes for those decades, the Catholic Church was trying
to hush things up. After all, the whole scenario was
a terrible look for the church, and that's why it
took thirty years for any sort of justice to happen
in the Sister Abia case. It's a bizarre story, right,
a killer priest and a nun, a body found in
(03:31):
a well. But if you can believe it, Sister Abiah's
death was not an isolated incident. Since her death, there
have been more than twenty other nuns in India who
have died mysteriously. Many of them have been found in wells.
(03:51):
Just this year, on April sixteenth, a forty two year
old nun named Sister Mabel Joseph was found in a
well and there was a suicide note in her room
saying that she was killing herself because of health problems.
Some news reports show a photo of her body being
lifted out of the well in a giant net. You
(04:12):
can see her white. Nun's habit all wrapped around her
soaked with water? Was it a suicide? Though? People are suspicious,
just like they were suspicious with the Sister Abayah case,
just like they're suspicious with other similar cases. On February fourteenth,
(04:32):
Sister Jessina Thomas was found floating in a quarry. In
twenty eighteen, Susama Matthews was found in her convents well
with cuts on her wrist and a trail of blood
leading back up to her room. Suicide or murder? Suicide
or murder. The debate rages on these incidents hint at
(04:54):
a deeper darkness within the Indian Catholic Church. There's a
culture of rape in the church, a secret culture that
is mostly hushed up. This culture emerged into the light
in twenty eighteen when the first bishop in Indian Catholic
history was arrested in a rape case. His name was
Franco Mulakal. It's hard not to wonder if the nuns
(05:17):
are being killed because of something they saw, like Sister Abiah,
or if they're killing themselves because of something they suffered
at the hands of a bishop or a priest like Franco.
What does it mean? What does it all mean? The
nuns found in wells. Is it just a coincidence? The
(05:39):
deaths continue, and still the church is silent. Update number
two Beatrice Munyanezi. In one of our very earliest Criminal
(05:59):
Broad's episodes, episode six, we covered the unusual case of
Beatrice Munyonesi. In nineteen ninety eight, Beatrice came to the
US from Rwanda, and she told immigration officials that she
had been persecuted in her home country. This was a lie,
and especially sinister lie, because Beatrice had been the one
(06:22):
doing the persecution. She had been one of the rarest
types of female criminals, a female war criminal. She had
been involved in the Rwandan genocide, which was a massacre
of the Rwandan minority ethnic group called the Tutsi. Some
six hundred thousand people were brutally killed, and Beatrice was
(06:43):
responsible for some of those deaths. She would stand at
a roadblock with her husband and she would look at
people's identity cards as they tried to pass through. Allegedly,
if she saw that they were Tutsi, she would condemn
them to death, and if she saw that they were women,
she would command her guards to rape them first. Beatrice
(07:07):
lived peacefully in the US for a while with her
false story of persecution, but eventually her real identity was
discovered and in twenty thirteen, she was imprisoned in the
US for lying about her role in the genocide. But
of course, lying on immigration forms was in no way
her most serious crime. Beatrice still hasn't answered for those
(07:30):
most serious crimes, but she's about to. Just a few
weeks ago, she was deported to Rwanda, and when she
arrived in her home country after decades away, she was
arrested immediately. She's about to stand trial again. She's now
charged with the following crimes murder as genocide, conspiracy to
(07:53):
commit genocide, planning of genocide, complicity in genocide, in excitement
to commit genocide, extermination, and complicity in rape. It has
been twenty seven years since Beatrice's war crimes. It's been
almost as long as it has been since sister a
(08:15):
Bio was murdered. Sometimes justice moves agonizingly slow, and the
family members of Beatrice's victims, if any of them survived
the genocide, wait and wait.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Let's take a little break to hear from.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
This episode's fabulous sponsors. Okay, guys, if you've seen me
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Sundayscaries dot com. They're freaking amazing. Update number three, Amy Bishop.
(11:35):
If Beatrice Munionezi was an extremely rare sort of criminal,
so was Amy Bishop. She was a female mass shooter.
You don't see her sort on the news much. We
talked about her in episode forty three. Amy was a
professor at the University of Alabama in Huntsville who thought
that she was a genius, and so when she didn't
(11:57):
get tenure, she brought a gun into a faculty meeting
and opened fire. She killed three of her colleagues and
wounded three more. Now you may remember from the episode
that this wasn't the first time Amy had fired a gun.
When she was twenty one, she killed her beloved younger brother, Seth,
who was eighteen. To this day, Amy and her parents
(12:20):
insist that it was an accident, that the gun had
gone off unintentionally, that Amy didn't mean to do it. Today,
I have two updates on Amy Bishop. One is kind
of hilarious. The other is unbearably sad. So when I
was working on her episode earlier this year, I emailed
(12:42):
the reporter Patrick Radden Keith. Now he was the one
who wrote that fantastic profile of Amy for The New Yorker,
which was one of my main sources. Anyway, he sent
me a mysterious link saying that it was quote something
new and interesting that nobody seems to have picked up
on yet. I clicked on the link and was shocked
by what I saw. Amy Bishop had won a writing prize.
(13:07):
Amy always wanted to be a famous writer. Remember, she
was part of a writing group before she was arrested,
and she wrote multiple semi autobiographical novels, and she talked
to Big Talk about how she had an agent and
how she was going to be super successful. I wouldn't
say she's a super successful writer now. But at the
end of twenty twenty, she won second place in the
(13:28):
fiction category of the twenty twenty Prison Writing Contest from
Penn America. Her story was titled Man of Few Words.
Like her novels, it seems pretty clearly autobiographical. It's about
a former professor who is in prison for life for
an unspecified crime that she describes as horror. You get
(13:50):
the picture. The main character, the professor, is on the
phone with her husband on the prison phone. Her husband
tells her that one of their female friends is getting divorced.
She tells him that it's okay to pursue a relationship
with this female friend, that it's okay to marry her,
that he should be able to find love again without her,
(14:11):
and so on. As she tells him this, she feels horrible,
but she pushes past her feelings for his sake because
she knows that it's the right thing to do. The
story takes place over the prison phone. In conversations between
the woman and her husband, they reminisce about going to
a Native American pow wow when they were first dating,
(14:32):
and by the end of the story, the husband is
taking his new girlfriend to the same pow wow, and
he calls his wife so that she can hear the
celebration over the phone. I was very judgmental of the
story as I started to read it. I mean, we're
talking about a story written by a mass shooter here.
This is not my favorite sort of person. And Amy Bishop,
(14:54):
as you probably remember, is just so arrogant Here's the
brief mention that she gives to her crimes in this story,
and I quote for ten seconds that I thankfully don't remember.
I became horror. I a law constrained mother and assistant
professor of biology am in Tuttweiler Prison, Buttthole, Alabama, on
(15:18):
Life without Parole. I just hated that line so much
when I read it for ten seconds that I thankfully
don't remember. I became horror talk about underplaying the time
you slaughtered three people. And then I kept reading and
I moved from judgment to mocking laughter. There are moments
(15:40):
in this story that are so overwritten. My favorite AA
least favorite is the time that Amy writes about vaginas
using the language of Homer. Here's the paragraph, My jealousy rages,
and I wish I could recall my words of release,
but I can't. It's the right thing to do to
let my ford something husband to find someone with whom
(16:02):
to spend his life. Jack should not grow old alone,
his blue eyes going white with cataracts, without ever having
seen again the wine dark flower of a woman. In
case you don't know what I or Amy is talking about,
Homer often uses the phrase wine dark Sea in the
(16:22):
Iliad and the Odyssey. So first I was judging this story,
and then I was mocking. But then I reached the
end of the piece and I had to admit that
Amy Bishop had actually written something that felt emotionally true.
By the end of the story, she really does manage
to convey what it must be like to be in
(16:43):
prison for life, trying to release your husband so that
he can find happiness again, and just writhing with jealousy
as you do it. It sounds brutal. She writes about
being on the phone and hearing her kids having fun
in the background, and she screams into the prison phone,
I love you, hoping that they'll hear her. That moment
(17:07):
felt so real and heartbreaking that I have to say
it kind of put a lump in my throat. I
think she might deserve that second place prize just for that.
So that's the first update on Amy. The second one
is so much sadder. Remember how Amy's brother, Seth died
(17:28):
of a gunshot when he was eighteen years old. Years later,
when Amy herself had a son, she named him Seth.
And now that Seth Seth Junior is dead. He died
of a gunshot wound. Just a few weeks ago, on
April nineteenth, he was twenty years old. He was shot
(17:51):
by a friend who has been charged with reckless murder.
And what's reckless murder? If you can believe it? Reckless
murder is a charge that incl scludes things like accidentally
firing off a gun. Now, it's easy to laugh when
Amy references Homer in her stories, but there's this Homeric
(18:14):
tragedy to her life that seems impossible for her family
to escape. It's like she's living under a curse, or
she is the curse. Update number four Jazz Mohen. Let's
(18:40):
move on to a lighter topic. Do you all remember
Jazz Mahine. She was the subject of episode four of
Criminal Broads and she has been on my mind ever
since twenty eighteen when I first discovered her wicked ways.
I am obsessed with her story because I think she's
so sinister and she'll never admit it. In fact, she
paints herself as a really, really evolved person. Jazz Mahine
(19:03):
is a Britherian. She claims that she doesn't need food
to live, and multiple people have died after following her teachings.
But she rarely comments on these deaths because they're obviously
horrible for her brand. If she does comment on them,
she just says that these people weren't doing the Britherian
(19:24):
thing right. Today, Jazz Machine refuses any scientific testing of
her teachings, but back in the day she did try
to get science to verify her. She went on the
Australian TV show Sixty Minutes and she agreed to be
filmed round the clock in order to prove that she
didn't need to eat or drink. After four days of filming,
her pulse was high, her blood pressure was down, and
(19:46):
she'd lost about thirteen pounds. She was talking strangely, she
was slurring a bit, and the doctor on call was
basically like, you are going to die if you keep
this up, and so they stopped filming. Later, Jamhine emailed
out a press release that read, what appears to be
delusion to some is simply a preferable reality to others.
(20:08):
For without our dreams and visions, humanity has no hope.
So what's Jazz Mohine up to today? Is she still
talking about eating air and surviving only on prana? Oh? Yes,
she keeps up a strong online presence with Facebook posts
that I can only describe as word salad. Here's one
(20:30):
of them. I think we are all understanding the power
we each have to step out of the holograms of limitation,
as we have entered a time where this is more
powerful a choice than ever before. Hence, we offer all
that we do here to support this in the most
nourishing way, For we are all gifted with the ability
to anchor in the zone of reality of our choice.
As per our first course that we offered. Did you
(20:51):
catch that word course? Oh? Yes? There are plenty of
ways to give Jazz Mohine your money. For about four bucks,
you can buy the Law of Life, Love and its
fabulous frequency of freedom. For a bit more, you can
purchase Relationship and Network's upgrades, meditation, and if you want
to spend about two hundred and fifty dollars at her store,
(21:12):
you can buy a course that teaches you all about
living a life of effortless, ease and grace. Now, I'm
not going to say that the pandemic hasn't affected jas Machine. Sadly,
it's caused her to pause something she's calling her annual
darkroom retreats. These retreats are a place where you can
(21:33):
tune in to the quote pronic living lifestyle and the
source feeding reality. As usual, Jazz Mahine uses very vague,
distracting terminology when describing things, possibly so no one can
come after her for the multiple deaths that Herbertherian teachings
have at least indirectly been involved with. Anyway, what are
(21:53):
these retreats, you ask, Oh, they are the once in
a lifetime chance to spend nine days and nine nights
in a completely dark cave with Jazz mohen by your side.
I mean, ken, you put a price on that during
these nine days and nights you will quote live like
yogis and apply powerful life enhancing methodology of interdimensional energy
(22:17):
field science. If that's not the most terrifying thing you've
ever heard, then be of good cheer. Jazzmohine dot com
promises we hope to resume these as soon as we can.
In the meantime, we have our powerful online training programs.
There are plenty of links on the page where you
can click to buy them. Update number five Carol Anne Fugate.
(22:58):
Carol Ane Fugate was only fourteen years old when she
was arrested along with her boyfriend, the spree killer Charles
Starkweather Charlie murdered eleven people, including three of Carroll's family members,
in the late nineteen fifties. Carol went to prison, Charlie
went to the electric chair. We covered them in episode eight.
(23:20):
People have always always disagreed about whether Carol was guilty
or innocent. Was she a sweet, naive fourteen year old
forced along on a murder spree by her controlling, abusive
older boyfriend, or did she herself have the heart of
a murderer. Charlie always said that she was culpable. He
claimed that she'd killed some of their victims herself, and
(23:41):
he famously said that if he were going to the
electric chair, Carol ann should be sitting on his lap.
That quote was so iconic that Bruce Springsteen put it
in a song, Sheriff, when the man pulls that switch,
sir and snaps my poor head back, he sings, you
make sure my pretty baby is and right there on
my lap. But Carol has insisted that she was innocent
(24:06):
from the moment she was arrested. Her side of the
story is that she never knew that Charlie had killed
her family. Instead, she says that he used them to
threaten her, saying that he would kill them if she
didn't come along with him. She was given life in prison,
but she was paroled after seventeen years. Since her parole,
(24:26):
Carol has kept a low profile, but sometimes she'll resurface
to keep arguing that she's innocent. In nineteen ninety six,
she applied for a pardon. Here's what a pardon does.
According to law dot Com, a pardon strikes the conviction
from the books as if it had never occurred, and
the convicted person is treated as innocent. The Nebraska Board
(24:48):
of Pardons refused to give her a hearing, but she
tried again recently in twenty twenty. In this second application,
she wrote, the idea that posterity has been made to
believe that I knew about and or witnessed the death
of my beloved family and left with stark Weather willingly
on a murder spree is too much for me to
(25:08):
bear anymore. Receiving a pardon may somehow alleviate this terrible burden.
The Board of Pardons once again denied her. That is
not the role of the pardons board. One member said,
we can't come in and alleviate the burden she feels
for this case. Family members of the victims expressed different opinions.
(25:30):
People are always expressing different opinions about Carol. The cousin
of one victim said, I can't express in words how
overjoyed and happy I am that she did not get pardoned.
The granddaughter of two victims had a different take. I
have met her and she has cried in my arms,
and I have cried in her arms, said the granddaughter.
And she feels damned pain. You can bet it this
(25:53):
woman has been in pain all her life. I'm not
sure we'll ever know exactly how the story went back
in the fifties. As they say, there's Charlie's side of
the story, and there's Carol's side of the story, and
perhaps the truth is in a third version that will
never access. But it's interesting to see how people react
to Carol. I did a talk recently and I asked
(26:14):
audience members if they had any true crime anecdotes to
share with me, and one of them, Judy, emailed me afterwards.
She had some thoughts on Carol. Having grown up in Lincoln, Nebraska,
we all thought Carol Anne Fugate was a definite con
artist to the umph degree. Judy wrote, she wanted us
the public to believe that she was actually the victim,
(26:36):
when in fact it did become known that not only
was she responsible for killing several people, but perhaps even
derived pleasure from doing so. So that's how a lot
of people felt in Nebraska at the time and still
feel to this day. Judy also shared another anecdote from
those days, one that I found especially spooky. Charlie Starkweather
(26:59):
was electrocuted, she wrote, and the night of several friends
and I were talking to each other via our kitchen
wall phones, our overhead lights in our respective kitchens. Dimming
(27:24):
Update number six. Anne Hamilton Burn. We talked about the
cult leader Anne Hamilton Burn in episode nineteen. Anne was
an nefarious cult leader who styled herself as Jesus and
adopted slash stole multiple children who she abused and forced
to take lsd pretending it was a spiritual experience, and
(27:46):
she pretty much got away with it all. By the
time people knew about her crimes, much of the evidence
had vanished. When our episode aired on February thirteenth, twenty nineteen,
Anne was in her nineties and suffering from dementia. All
of her answers and explanations and excuses were now locked
away inside her forever, and four months later she passed
(28:09):
away at the age of ninety seven. One of her
adopted sons, Ben Shenton, wrote of her death, it's hard
to feel grief or sadness at her passing from this
temporal world because of the broken families, suicides, drug addictions
and overdoses, the financial crippling of everyone who gave to her.
(28:30):
It was like a black hole that people gravitated to
and had the life sucked out of them. A detective
who worked on her case but who could never bring
her to prison said, I have spoken with a number
of her children, and a number of them feel relieved
like I do. I've shed not one tear. As a
matter of fact, when she passed away on Friday, it
(28:50):
was one of the best days of my life. Anne
had always presented herself as immortal, and she got the
facelifts and wore them wigs to prove it, to show
that she never aged. But in the end she was
just like the rest of us, mortal. Rosie Jones, a
filmographer who actually came on this podcast to talk about Anne,
(29:14):
visited Anne in her nursing home and called it an
extraordinary encounter. She was dressed beautifully in blue and still
had long silver hair. Rosie told The Guardian her speech
was mostly incoherent, but she sat there nursing a plastic
baby doll. She held the doll so tenderly, so gently.
(29:36):
I found it incredibly powerful to witness Update number seven
(30:01):
Poulan dev Of all the broads I've covered, the one
who's gotten the best reaction from you all has got
to be Pulan Devi, the bandit queen of episode eleven.
No other broad has elicited such admiration from my listeners.
So when he cries of hell, yes, it's been years
since we've talked about her, so let me refresh your memory.
(30:23):
Poulan was an Indian girl born into extreme poverty in
rural Uttar Pradesh. She was feisty and she was punished
for it. She was in a lower cast and she
was punished for it. She was a girl and she
was punished for it. Poulan was married off when she
was eleven. She endured repeated rapes, not just from her
creepy older husband, but also from the higher cast men
(30:45):
in her village. But remember, she was feisty, and so
she ran off and joined a group of bandits. But
even bandits have hierarchies. There were cast tensions in her gang,
and there were jealousy, and eventually the gang splintered and fought,
and the bad half of the gang kidnapped Poulan and
(31:06):
took her to a nearby village called Behmi. There, for
the next three weeks she was raped and beaten and
paraded around naked by the upper cast men of the village.
She eventually managed to escape, and she formed a new gang,
but she never forgot what had happened to her at Behmei,
(31:29):
and so on February fourteenth, nineteen eighty one, Poulan and
her bandits returned, lined up twenty of the upper cast
men of the village and opened fire. Fast forward twenty years,
Poulan was now famous, beloved. People thought of her as Robinhood,
even though she might not have actually ever given any
(31:49):
money to the poor. As her bandit career came to
an end, she negotiated with the authorities and she got
herself and her fellow bandits a pretty decent deal. She
spent about ten years in prison, and then she embarked
on a political career. Eventually she was even elected to
be a member of parliament. Like I said, people loved her.
(32:09):
But if Poulan never forgot what she had suffered, other
people never forgot what she had done. And in the
heat of the afternoon on July twenty sixth, two thousand
and one, three masked men pulled up outside Pulan's house
and opened fire. She was shot nine times. It was revenge,
they said, for the massacre at Bechmei twenty years earlier.
(32:34):
It has now been forty years since the Bethmi massacre
and no one has ever been officially found guilty for
the murders. It wasn't until twenty twelve that anyone was
even charged for the murders. A court charged Pulan, who
was already dead, and twenty two of her banditmn Today
only seven of the accused are alive, and three of
(32:55):
those seven are missing. The court was supposed to give
a verdict in January twenty two twenty, but then some
important paperwork went missing and the verdict was postponed yet again.
If you read Poulan's memoir, the Bechmi massacre is a
moment of great relief of delicious vengeance. Of course, she
killed them. These men did unspeakable things to her. But
(33:18):
then if you listen to the villagers of Behmi who
survived the massacre, a different narrative emerges. They say that
Poulan killed men at random, not simply the men who
raped her. Some of the men that she killed were
just boys eleven and twelve years old. On the one hand,
of course, she returned to the village of her nightmare
(33:40):
and rained down fire on them. And yet a man
named Raja ram Saying lost two of his brothers in
the massacre, one of his cousins and three of his nephews.
Our village witnessed twenty cremations on a single day. He
told a journalist. On that day, I was shivering like anything.
(34:03):
In the last thirty nine years, there has not been
a single day when we lived happily. Raja Rahm went
to every single court hearing and hoped to live long
enough to see a verdict. But he died in December
of twenty twenty at the age of eighty five. Still
waiting now, his son waits for him, and Pulan still
(34:25):
rests hopefully in peace. Update number eight Hollywood. If you
(34:46):
spend much time thinking about how true crime is an industry,
you probably won't be surprised to hear that there are
a number of new books and movies about our criminal
broads that are now coming out. There's a movie coming
out about Griselda Blanco, the Colombian rug queen who he
covered in episode eighteen. The title of the movie is
The Godmother, and Griselda is being played by none other
(35:08):
than Jennifer Lopez. J LO says, I've been fascinated by
the life of this corrupt and complicated woman for many years.
And Griselda's surviving son, Michael wrote on Instagram, so happy
to hear that this is going to happen finally. J
Lo is una patrona. It's only right she plays my mother,
the late Great Griselda. I'm pretty sure that una patrona
(35:30):
means something along the lines of the boss, but Spanish
speaking listeners let me know if there's a better translation.
Moving right along, there's yet another TV show coming out
about Casey Anthony Episode forty seven's subject. This one is
by Lifetime. It's called Sell Me Secrets, and it'll focus
on Casey's case as well as stories like Drew Peterson
(35:50):
and Chris Watts Shocker shocker. As we've seen by now,
the appetite for these famous stories is almost literally bottomless.
Let's travel down to Brazil for a moment. Remember episode
thirty six on Susan Vandrichtolfen, the rich white Brazilian girl
who convinced her boyfriend and his brother to bludgeon her
parents to death. Now there are two movies coming out
(36:13):
about her in Brazil, one from her perspective and one
from her boyfriend's perspective. I have a lot of Brazilian
readers because my first book, Lady Killers was translated into
Portuguese not to brag, and so I reached out to
them to get a sense of how people were feeling
about the movies. Because now this maybe obvious, but sometimes
it's easy to forget, and it's also really interesting. Other
(36:34):
countries don't always feel the same way that America does
about true crime as a genre. So here's what they said.
Multiple people described a sense in Brazil that people don't
want to keep thinking about this case. They want to
forget about it. Brazil is a really conservative country. People
don't like to talk about crimes and things like that said.
Andre Kelly says that rumors are swirling. Some people are
(36:57):
upset because they think that the criminals are being bloude holorified,
or that they'll get some profit according to the company.
They won't, or that the movies were being made with
government money. They weren't, she writes. Malu says that people
are worried that the movie is a way to forgive Suzanne,
but that other people are excited because the main actress,
Carla Diaz, was a member of the twenty twenty one
(37:19):
cast of Big Brother. Brazil and Rafaela describes how Brazil's
true crime fans are waiting for it with anticipation. True
crime fans are waiting for the movie as we wait
for Netflix productions about Ted Bundy or Son of Sam,
you know, She writes, The real indignation is that our
justice is shit and she's and always will be a
psychopath and almost free. But she's beautiful, white, well spoken
(37:42):
and has a lot of fans here on the Internet.
She also writes that she feels bad for Suzanne's brother Andres.
He's so intelligent, She writes, I mean he has a
doctorate degree in inorganic chemistry, but every year, we hear
that he's at some clinic after another mental breakdown. Can't
even imagine his pain. Speaking of Ted Bundy, have you
(38:05):
heard that there's yet another movie coming out about him?
I believe this is officially movie number ten thousand, five
hundred and seventy six. This one stars Elijah Wood as
an FBI agent who interrogates Bundy, and as Hollywood stumbles
over themselves to release this latest Bundy film, Kathy Kleiner
is quietly working on her memoir. We heard Kathy's story
(38:28):
in her own words on episode thirty three. Kathy survived
Ted Bundy's brutal attack at the sorority chi Omega. She
was literally in the room with Bundy as he was
trying to kill her and her roommate. This would be
the first time that a Bundy survivor gets to be
the author of a traditionally published book, rather than a
(38:48):
name in the endnotes. My writer friend Emily Lukesey is
working with Kathy on this, and she texts me Kathy
is very focused on making sure all the victims are
named and included in the story. She's really carrying the
weight of thirty six shadows and the list goes on.
In Indiana, a TV crew has started filming the trailer
(39:09):
for their movie about serial killer Bell Ginnis of episode eight.
In Australia, there's a hip little restaurant named love Tilly Divine,
after the fabulous nineteen thirties crime queen we covered in
episode twelve. I was actually googling the restaurant to see
if there was anything interesting to say about it, and
I found that Gwyneth Paltrow's website Goop wrote about it.
(39:32):
Love Tilly Divine is the kind of place you think
about long after you've left, they wrote, Maybe it's the
three hundred bottle strong wine list, or the irresistible small
plates masquerading as bar snacks like pickled sardines on toast,
zucchini with walnut, and prostudo with plums, or those stool
seats by the open windows. By now, we are so
(39:56):
far from the actual crimes of Tilly Divine, from the
jail time and the weapons and the blood in the streets,
that it kind of blows my mind. Pickled sardines on toast?
Speaker 1 (40:06):
What wait?
Speaker 3 (40:07):
How how did we get here? I'm always startled by
how the lines between crime and commerce overlap, even though
I'm a living, breathing example of how crime and commerce
can overlap. I am always having to remind myself this
is all real. Sure, their stories and some of these
people are long gone, but it was all always real. Meanwhile,
(40:33):
in Florida, a seventy two year old black man sits
in prison. He's been there since he was nineteen. His
name is Lloyd Dean. Do you remember him. He's the
son of Marie Dean Errington, who was a murderess and
an escape artist and the second woman to make the
FBI's ten Most Wanted lists. We talked about her in
(40:54):
episode forty two. She committed her murder because she was
trying to get her son out of prison. He had
been given a life sentence for the crime of robbing
a gas station as a teenager. After our episode aired,
I wrote to Lloyd. I just felt like I wanted
to say hello. It felt weird to do an episode
(41:15):
on his mom and just ignore the fact that he
was a real person who was still alive. So I
wrote to him and he sent back a lovely note.
He told me that he and his mom wrote to
each other often when she was still alive, even though
they were both in prison. He signed it always evidence
love in your life. I sent him another note recently,
(41:37):
telling him about this very episode, and I asked if
he wanted to share anything with you all, any memory
from his life that we might like to know.
Speaker 4 (41:46):
Here's what he wrote, Dear Toy, Hi, I've received your
email and it's great to hear from us. Well, Toy,
A loving heart will never part. I'm the elder of
my mother's five children. All my life, I remember my
mom as an understanding and loving mom. She taught me
to seek one's understanding and friendship. I vividly remember the
(42:08):
first time in my life that I had seen my
mom so overjoyed. In nineteen fifty nine, when I was
ten years old and I was at school in fourth
grade and my school teacher was Miss Judlia Miller. I
was in Miss Julia Miller's class, and she was the
niece of Miss Mary McLeod Buthane, the founder of Beuthane
Cookman College. The principal called her and said my mom
(42:29):
was there and for her to come with me to
the office. So when we arrived at the office, the
principal asked me, did I devote a lot of my
time to study I told him yes. The principal asked
Miss Miller about my grades. I made all straight a's,
so Miss Miller said, I had an IQ of a
seventh grade student. The principal, Miss Miller discussed about me
(42:50):
taking the standard test. So I took the test and
I passed it. Therefore I didn't have to go through
fifth grade or sixth grade, so I knew what the
fifth grade and sixth graders knew. Why I entered junior
high at the age of eleven. Continue to have faith
in your Lord, and may all be well with your
family and peace unto you. Lloyd.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Imagine Marie's pride in her son in that moment. Imagine
Lloyd's pride in herself and his joy in seeing his
mother proud. That's a memory that stuck with him all
this time, through over half a century in prison. And
that's Marie's son. Marie Dean Arrington of episode forty two. Yeah,
(43:36):
you heard about her on a podcast, which is just
a little bit removed from everyday life, right, And I
wrote about her in a coffee shop and we all
went about our lives afterward. But everyone in that story
was real. It was all always real. Thank you for
(44:18):
listening everyone. Now, after I recorded the bulk of this episode,
I actually got one more update. This one is from
Jennifer Me, who became famous in two thousand and seven
for a long lasting case of the hiccups. The media
called her Hiccup Girl. She went on a bunch of
talk shows, and then in twenty ten she was involved
in a robbery where someone was shot and killed, and
(44:40):
she is currently serving life in Florida. So I had
promised you all in an interview with Jennifer, and we've
been working on it, but she's run into a bunch
of problems on her end. The prison keeps going on
lockdown because of COVID et cetera. Anyway, she did send
me a brief email to read to you you all
that answers a couple questions. So I didn't have time
(45:02):
to include it in the episode proper, but I'm going
to read it to you now. So this is from
Jennifer Me. She says, first and foremost, I want to
say thank you to everyone that is going to be
listening to this. So I know there are a lot
of questions that are being asked, and I want everyone
to know I appreciate it. So The first question that
was asked is how is my day to day life. Well,
I wake up at six am, take a shower, and
(45:23):
do my devotionals, then I clean my room. I'm currently
in ged trying to get my diploma, so I go
to school Monday through Thursday. If I'm not in school,
then I'm trying to find ways to get back to court.
The next question that was asked, how do I feel
about what happened in two thousand and seven with the media. Well, personally,
I feel like it was an interesting experience, but what
happened in twenty ten was never supposed to happen, and
(45:45):
it breaks my heart every day to know someone's life
was taken for no reason. The other question that was
asked is how did Corona impact my life? Well, I
have had it. It was the worst thing to have
to deal with. Our compound is still in lockdown. Two
years later. Things are just now starting to get to
normal a little bit. It has been rough last but
(46:06):
not least. People are wondering do I talk to my
co defendants. No, I don't talk to either one of them.
I do think about them and pray they're doing well.
I would like to know how they are holding up well.
Ladies and gentlemen, Thank you once again for all the support.
So that's from Jennifer me to you all, directly to
you all. Now before I let you go, I have
(46:26):
kind of a weird request for you. Give me your
money now. So I want to send a little bit
of money to Lloyd Dean, Marie Dean Arrington's son, just
because he is seventy two. You know, I just want
him to be able to like buy a few things
to make his life a little bit more comfortable. He's
been in prison for half a century for a crime
(46:49):
he committed when he was nineteen. No one died, you know.
It just makes me really sad, and he's had the
He's been very nice in corresponding with me, and I'd
like to send him a little lile bit of money.
So if anyone wants to join me, I'd be happy
to pass along your donations too. Now I'm gonna send
him money using this thing called JPay, which is a
(47:09):
way that you can send like messages and money to
incarcerated people. It's great, So if you want, you can
venmo me. My username is at Tory hyphen Telfer. I'll
put it in the show notes. If you don't have
Venmo and you want to give money, you know, email
me and we can figure out another way, and I
will compile everything and keep track of everything and send
(47:32):
it to him. I don't want to use a gofund
to me or whatever, because I you know, we're not
trying to raise like ten thousand dollars here, just a
little bit of cash to give him, And I just
think it'll be easier to do this way. A promise.
I'm not a con woman. It would be ironic if
I was given that. I've written a whole book on it.
I just if I was a con woman, I don't
think i'd write a book on it, or would I
(47:53):
is at the ultimate con No, it's not okay, So yeah,
I'll put the info in the show notes. Please feel
free to join me if you too are touched by
his situation. And speaking of Lloyd's letter that was read
by the amazing voice actor Darius Johnson, if you need
him to hire him for all your voiceover needs, I'll
(48:13):
put his website in the show notes. Okay, Last, but
not least, Hello patrons for this episode.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
Thank you to Joe s Allison b and Coriina Michelle,
whose name you may recognize from she was my co
host on our podcast Red Flags. Thanks Karina, love you,
Thank you everyone else. Patreon dot com, slash criminal Brods
if you want to support the podcast. Another great way
to support the podcast is rate and review on Apple Podcasts.
(48:40):
It's like, very very helpful if you do that. Next week,
I'm going to actually be re releasing an old episode
with a new introduction because I myself am going to
be road tripping and taking a little time off. And
then for the month of June, guys, we have a theme.
We have a theme. We're doing a single theme for
(49:01):
all of June, maybe even a bonus episode if I
can get my act together, So get excited. I'm not
going to tell you what the theme is yet, but
i'll tell you next week. All right. I hope you're
having a lovely week in that it's warming up.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Where you are or cooling.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
Down or whatever feels best. And I'll talk to you here,
same time, same place, next week. Bye bye.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Maybe I'm wrong, Maybe I'm wrong loving you deal like
I do. If it's a crime, then I'm guilty.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
Guilty.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Loving
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