All Episodes

January 17, 2023 32 mins

His medical contemporaries once considered him to be a "clever, money-mad neuropath." But what makes Dr. Albert Abrams a bit different than other charlatans we’ll meet this season is that though he was dismissed within the medical community for quackery in his time, he probably wasn’t a guy running a con – at least not on purpose. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shonda Land Audio in
partnership with I Heart Radio. Neither fury of tongue nor
truculence of pen can discredit my observations, which are capable
of analysis and demonstration. A man named Dr Albert Abrams

(00:23):
once said about his work. His medical contemporaries once considered
him to be quote a clever, money mad neuropath, according
to the Jewish Museum of the American West. But what
makes Abrams a bit different than other con artists will
meet this season is that though he was dismissed within
the medical community for quackery and fraud in his time,

(00:45):
he probably wasn't really a guy running a con, at
least not on purpose. He truly believed he was revolutionizing
the way physicians diagnosed their patients, and today he's considered
the father of radionics. Well, come to Criminalia. I'm Maria
Tramarqui and I'm Holly Fry, So let's get to know
a little about Albert Abrams. He was born in San

(01:08):
Francisco in eighteen sixty three. He earned his medical degree
from the University of Heidelberg, Germany's oldest university, in eight
two and took additional graduate courses in London, Berlin, Vienna,
and Paris. In eighty three, he returned to San Francisco
to open his own practice. He's noted in more than

(01:29):
one written instance as having quote exceptional intelligence and productivity,
and he quickly built up a large and prosperous practice
in the city. Abrams, though, diagnosed his patients through an
unconventional method. He mapped out various areas of residence and
dullness in the human body through controlled percussion, or, to

(01:51):
put it a lot more simply, he would tap and listen.
His solid reputation as a physician afforded him opportunities to
lecture on an number of medical subjects, and that led
him to a position as a professor of pathology at
Cooper Medical College from eighteen ninety three to eight. During
his tenure there, Cooper Medical College referred to him as

(02:13):
quote our talented young professor. Abrams, though abruptly submitted his
resignation on May sixteenth. It was accepted by the Board
of Directors of the college on November fifteenth that year, but,
as medical historians have noted, it was curiously received and
approved without the usual expressions of appreciation for services during

(02:36):
his time at the school. There was no thank you,
There was no good luck. It's generally believed among experts
that due to the nature of his work, he was
asked to resign his position. Abrams may have had a
good reputation among his patients, but his work was considered
very controversial in the medical community. A decade of experiments

(02:58):
and research led Abrams to ellop to basic theories. The first,
all matter radiates energy, and each element or compounds radiations
differ from the radiation emitted by any other element or compound.
The characteristics of each of those radiations are dependent upon
the molecular constituents of whatever material is involved. So, for instance,

(03:21):
take organic compounds. They belong to one of four classes
of molecules, carbohydrates, lipids, proteins, and nucleic acids. Every single
molecule would have a unique energy I D. And his
second theory goes like this, The radiations emitted by different
types of matter of a living organism can be detected,

(03:42):
can be differentiated, and can be measured by a trained
practitioner using relatively simple instruments. The whole concept was based
on the idea that all of us humans and all
other life on Earth are part of the planet's electromagnetic field,
and that each living being has its own unique identity
or electromagnetic frequency. In the early nineteen hundreds, Abrams developed

(04:08):
and wrote about a physical treatment called spondul the therapy
or spinal reflexology, a kind of combination of chiropractic and
osteopathic practices that used controlled percussion, so either that would
be a practitioner's hand or a plex or instrument to
perform reflex stimulation. It was also around this time Abrams

(04:29):
began to expand on his two theories and began to
claim he could detect what he called energy frequencies in
his patient's bodies. The idea here was that a healthy
person's body would have certain energy frequencies moving through it
that define it as a healthy body. An unhealthy body,
in comparison, would develop other different or distorted energy frequencies.

(04:55):
By considering each organ and tissue to have its own vibration,
when vibration change, it signaled disease was developing. He said
he could cure people by, as he called it, balancing
discordant frequencies. Abram's continued to expand his theories on how
the body emits electromagnetic radiation. He began to claim that

(05:17):
disease could be diagnosed and treated by applying electromagnetic radiation
to the human body through an electrically powered device, and he,
as we'll talk about in a moment, went on to
invent those devices. His assumption was that external application of
electromagnetic energy could cure the body's energy field and in

(05:39):
turn cure the patient's disease. His experiments and discoveries went
on to be known as radionics. Radionics is also called
electromagnetic therapy and the Abrams method. Electromagnetic therapy is a
form of energy medicine, and the idea has been used
in medical treatments for thousands of years. In traditional Chinese medicine,

(06:04):
for example, magnetic energy has been used on acupuncture points.
Minerals called load stones were used to treat many health
conditions in the tenth and eleventh centuries because of their
natural magnetic qualities. The biological effects of low frequency electromagnetic
radiation on the human body have been studied since the
sixteenth century, but electromagnetic therapies have never been mainstream. Today's

(06:30):
research in the field is based on the belief that
every cell in the human body contains its own unique
electromagnetic energy, and that the unique energy wave can be
detected before any physical symptoms of disease appear. Sounds familiar, right,
and that's because it's basically the theory Abrams was working on.
But still today there's no consensus on whether the effects

(06:50):
are physiologically significant. We're going to take a break for
a word from our sponsor. When we return, we'll talk
more about how Abrams went from well liked professor to
facing accusations that he wasn't even a real doctor. Welcome

(07:21):
back to Criminalia. Abraham's caught a lot of crap from
his peers, and although that probably felt terrible, it doesn't
seem to have slowed him down. Let's talk about his inventions.
During the nineteenth century. At the time Abrahams was beginning
his practice, some pretty big advancements were being made in

(07:41):
medical equipment. Magnetic insuls were invented, as were new tools
such as the stethoscope, laring scope, the medical thermometer, and
the X ray. Abrams did not invent the X ray,
but he demonstrated the value of it in cardiac diagnosis
in but shortly after by the end of the eighteen nineties, Abrams'

(08:04):
colleagues began to point out and greatly discussed what they
considered to be his growing eccentricities. Abrams was experimenting with
the increasing popularity of using electricity and using it in
medical practice with his own magnetic and electrical inventions, and
that right there was unheard of. He used diagnostic data

(08:28):
gathered through the use of his devices, of which he
built about a dozen. That data was analyzed by Abrams
or by a trained practitioner who detected and measured abnormal
frequencies while looking for changes in the energy and body
of the patient, radiations that could be caused by, say,
a tumor. Operators used abrams as devices to determine the

(08:49):
location of the disease in the body, and some devices
also suggested which remedy should be prescribed, such as a
specific vitamin. His devices, as well as those invented by
practic sisuers who came after him, were later updated with
the capability to broadcast, as he called it, forms of
low energy to treat, for instance, the frequencies of remote patients.

(09:12):
After nineteen o four, his colleagues began to consider his
ideas to be more like the writings of a quack
or a charlatan than of a knowledgeable physician. His peers
began to claim his work indicated he didn't have any
understanding of how the human body works, and despite his
medical degree, that he was not a real doctor. Between

(09:34):
eighteen ninety one to nineteen twenty three, so pretty wide
swath of time, Abrahams authored several books on medicinal techniques
and related subjects. He was a Fellow of the Royal
Medical Society of London, the Honorary President of the American
Association for the Study of Spondlo Therapy, and President of
the American Society of Psychophysical Research. In ninety two, he quote,

(10:00):
disease is an aberration of the electron structure, a change
in the otherwise uniform flow of electrons constituting the field
of energy which is radiated from the physical organism. Abrams,
as we've said, believed he could diagnose diseases such as cancer, syphilis,
and tuberculosis through electromagnetic analysis rather than relying on traditional

(10:23):
methods stethoscopes and jars of leeches and the like. He
promoted his ideas through lectures he gave across the United
States and Europe, as well as through his own writings
and in newspaper advertisements. He also established clinics in cities
in both the United States and Europe, and in London,
for instance, his practice featured an electric sign in Trafalgar Square.

(10:46):
These clinics, they were a huge success and he made
a good bit of money from them. Though the medical
theories on which those clinics operated were rejected by abrams
peers in the medical community, the public seemed to see
things differently. He continued to lecture, and his lectures continued
to attract curious audiences. He received favorable mentions by well

(11:08):
known figures outside of the medical community, including up In Sinclair,
author of the well known novel The Jungle, which was
an expose of the appalling conditions inside the meat packing industry.
Abrams expanded on the idea that different diseases caused tissues
to vibrate at different frequencies with the development of various instruments.

(11:29):
We've hinted at these devices already, so let's actually talk
about them. One of his first inventions was called the Reflexiphone.
Was this black box with instrumentation used to measure those
different vibrations. He also experimented with magnets, and he wrote
about the idea of using them to cure health issues

(11:49):
such as gastro intestinal ailments. His next invention was basically
an updated reflexiphone. The dynamizer, as he called it, was
basically another black box with plenty of knobs and dials
and wires, and Abrams claimed that he could diagnose the sex, race,
and disease of the patient, including the patient's religion, and

(12:12):
that included patients he had never met. So to do so,
he just required a single drop of blood. Oh but wait,
not so fast. That drop of blood needed to be
taken while the patient was facing west very important instructions.
The blood was then placed on a piece of paper

(12:34):
and mailed to him for evaluation. As Abram's described it,
he would then place the paper into the dynamizer, which
would feed information into other machines he had invented for
this process. Those other machines were known as the rio
stat dynamizer, the vibratory rate riostat, and the measuring riostat.

(12:54):
He aimed for his machines to not only suggest treatment,
but transfer medication to those who needed it, such as
prescribing quinine to treat patients suffering from malaria without ever
needing to see that patient in person. Abram's also invented
a device he called the asilic last, working with the
idea that diseases had their own vibrations that could be

(13:17):
picked up from an electrical device. This instrument was as
previous devices designed to identify energy waves. The asilic last
was an electrical instrument used for generating oscillations. That sounds confusing, probably,
but think of it like this. Think of it like
how a pendulum swings, and how that looks. It was

(13:39):
used to reverse diseased frequencies by aiming those frequencies back
at the affected tissue, so you see how that swing
is happening. In doing so, Abrams believed he could remove
disease from that tissue. The reaction was something Abram's called
the electronic reaction of Abram's simplified as e r A.
Abram's kept detailed notes of the sounds different diseases made,

(14:03):
and he calculated the resistance in olms of a range
of diseases and disorders. These were known in his work
as radionic rates and ohm. Just to brush up on
our terminology, here is a measurement of electrical resistance simple
as that. The original Acila class was a long rectangular
black box with three rotary switches for adjusting radionic rates,

(14:27):
a switch button, lightbulb, and four binding terminal posts. It,
along with his other inventions, have since become known as
black boxes, while yes, they were literally black boxes. In
scientific terminology, a black box is a device, or a
system or an object that produces useful information without revealing

(14:50):
any information about its internal workings. In Abrahams promoted his
new e r RA system with a new book titled
New Concepts in Diagnosis and Treatment, and by more than
three thousand doctors were using his e r A technology.
But things weren't actually great. We're going to take a

(15:12):
break for a word from our sponsor, and when we return,
we'll talk about how the medical community began to target
Abrams and his work. Welcome back to Criminalia. The end

(15:36):
of Abram's career brought both his downfall as well as
a rise of followers also seeking to understand electromagnetic therapy,
and a lot of that actually happened after his death
in ninety two. The British Royal Society of Medicine published
an unfavorable report on Abrams as well as his theories

(15:58):
and his practices, and as you may imagine, it had
negative consequences on his work. It wasn't until the nineteen
thirties when Dr Ruth Drowned, another pioneer in electromagnetic therapy
picked up where Abram's left off, and it's Dr drown
who renamed the e r A system to the more
common term radionics. Abrams's work went on to find a

(16:21):
home with George de Laire, Galen, Heronymous, Malcolm Ray, David Tansley,
Peter Kelly, and others, including the umbrella of the American
Association for Medico Physical Research today that is, medical physical Research.
Although considered a joke by those practicing traditional medicine, Abrams
was not alone in this field of study. Russian born

(16:44):
scientists and engineer George Lakowski developed the radio cellulo oscillator
in the nineteen twenties. His theory was that every living
human being radiates and amidst electromagnetic frequencies. He believed living
beings had what he called quote a dynamic equilibrium of
all cells, and that the harmony of multiple radiations reacted

(17:06):
upon one another. Lakowsky also believed that disease in the
body was the result of an oscillatory disequilibrium of a cell.
He described that as the struggle between microbic radiation and
cellular radiation. So then, under his theory, if microbic radiation
became dominant, disease was present, but if cellular radiation was dominant,

(17:30):
then the body was healthy. He, just like Abrams, was
a controversial and antagonized figure in his time, despite having
actually had a small amount of success with his treatments.
Also in nineties, American scientist doctor Royal Raymond Rife invented
the Rife Machine, a device built on the work of
Abram's and the theory that's sending an electrical impulse identical

(17:53):
to the cell's unique electromagnetic frequency could kill cancerous cells.
The instrument, like Abram's inventions, I mean, it was considered
a bunch of whui in the nineteen twenties, but when
it was tested on sixteen terminal cancer patients in nineteen
thirty four, Rife claimed his machine cured fourteen of those patients.

(18:14):
Two remaining were also cured, but it was noted they
had also undergone some other type of treatment as well. Today,
the Rife machine is used by some to help treat
conditions like lyme disease, and newer studies suggest that certain
types of electromagnetic waves may affect tumor growth. The American

(18:35):
Medical Association joined Abrams's peers to discredit his theories. They
called him quote the dean of twentieth century Charlatan's about
his dynamizer. They wrote, quote, the mysterious energy from the
patient's blood sample or other specimen passes from the subject's
forehead to the subject's abdomen. Where this mysterious electronic emanation

(18:58):
sets up certain changes is in the hollow organs, which
may be detected by percussing the subject's abdomen. Dr Abram's
claims to be able to tell by this means whether
the individual whose blood is being tested is suffering from syphilis, sarcoma, carcinoma,
typhoid fever, malaria, gonorrhea, or tuberculosis, and if so, suffering

(19:21):
where the diseased area is located. He can also diagnose
pregnancy and the paternity of the fetus by the same method.
The A m A. In an attempt to discredit Abrams
and his inventions, also wrote quote. The absurdity of his
devices was demonstrated at various times by sending some of

(19:42):
Abram's disciples specimens of blood purported to be from patients
who were ill, but we're actually taken from animals. A
given example was of a sheep. One sheep was diagnosed
with hereditary syphilis, which a helpful e r A practitioner
offered to or for two hundred and fifty dollars. Chickens

(20:03):
were also diagnosed with syphilis, both from samples of their
blood as well as samples of red ink. The foul
were also offered a cure for two and fifty dollars.
So this was not the best show here for Abrams.
Abrams's inventions were sold to operators, and some operators began

(20:23):
claiming that they could make a medical diagnosis from a
person's signature, and it didn't matter whether that person was
living or dead. Of this, the A. M a replied quote.
When the autograph of Samuel Peeps was tested, this famous
diarist was alleged to have suffered from congenital syphilis. The
autographs of Henry Wadsworth Longfellow and Edgar Allan Poe gave

(20:46):
the same result. It wasn't just the A m A
that was anti Abrams and anti electromagnetic theory. The period
viewed medical journal The Lancet also reported that blood from
healthy chickens sent to your A practitioners had been diagnosed
with major diseases. Scientific American and the American Medical Association

(21:08):
spent ten months and thirty thousand dollars investigating Abram's E
r A devices. It's panel of scientists concluded quote analyzed
in the cold light of scientific knowledge, the entire Abrams
matter is the height of absurdity. The so called electronic
reactions of Abrams do not exist, at least objectively. They

(21:32):
are merely products of the Abrams practitioner's mind. At best,
it is all an illusion. At worst, it is a
colossal fraud. Abrams died of pneumonia on January four, at
the age of sixty one, fifty one Sacramento Street, his home,

(21:52):
after several days of fighting a bronchial pneumonia infection. According
to his friends, the doctor had correctly predicted the exact
date of his death by application of an electronic test,
scooching ahead on the timeline of it to ninety two.
The US Court of Appeals found the American Medical Association

(22:14):
guilty of suppressing new medical technologies, including electromagnetic therapy, in
favor of pharmaceutical companies, and it took roughly four decades
after his death for the US Food and Drug Administration
to crack open his black boxes. Why no one did
the sooner is kind of a mystery, but a report

(22:34):
in Beaver County Times explained, quote one type produced a
magnetic field, as in a vacuum cleaner or doorbell. Another
was a low powered transmitter generating radio waves on the
short wave band used by police or taxi cabs. That
there was really hardly much to write home about. E

(22:54):
r A disappeared almost entirely from the medical community, but
the idea, but hind it continued to evolve over the decades.
Radionics devices were experimented with in agriculture during the nineteen fifties.
It was highly experimental. But let's talk about a company
that went by the name u K A c O.

(23:15):
And that company claimed Abrams's technology could kill pests in
farmer's fields. They contracted with Dalen Horonymous, a follower of
Abrams's theories, to build them a slightly modified a silic last.
Their process went like this, and stay with us because
this is a little bit of an unexpected ride. U

(23:37):
K a c O practitioners would photograph a farmer's field
and then apply a small amount of insecticide to that photo,
yes to the photo. That photo would then be placed
in the modified a silic last and the device would
broadcast the term you'll recognized from Abrams's work that treatment

(24:00):
to the actual field. So here's an example of one
of these cases from UK CEO reports. Believe it or not,
a farmer looking to save his corn field from a
heavy infestation of Japanese beetles contacted the company when insecticides
were not doing the trick, practitioners used an aerial photo
of the field with one corner of the photo cut off.

(24:24):
Insecticide was applied to the photo, and through their radionics machine,
they broadcast the imagined insecticide treatment over the actual field.
So the amazing thing is allegedly it got results. And
that's not just one report from one farmer. Several farmers
noted the effectiveness of Abrams's electromagnetic theory and agriculture, and

(24:48):
some ended their use of traditional chemical insecticides in favor
of these new techniques. So in that particular beetle example,
both uk a CEO and the farmer Clay aimed between
eighty and nine of the beatles either died or just
left the field in reports that were kept by the company,
that corner that was cut off in the photo was

(25:11):
the only part of the field where the beetle infestation
remained at maximum capacity. Is this lucky coincidence? Was there
something more going on? There are both stories of success
and failure, both as anecdotal stories and in written documented
results of the success stories. As you may imagine true

(25:32):
or not, those reports did not sit well with chemical
companies who supplied insecticide to farmers, and they actually lobbied
the United States Department of Agriculture and the two groups
joined forces. But uk CEO out of business, and they
did just that through a publicity campaign intended to discredit
the company and its process in the ice of farmers.

(25:55):
So much for that continued study will never know. I
Electromagnetic therapies haven't fallen out of scientific study. A cancer
treatment known as the magneto mechanical effect of particles is
today a growing field of research. The idea is to
connect magnetic, mechanical and electric phenomena in solid materials like tissue,

(26:19):
and here it's applied to destroy cancerous cells with vibrations.
In this technique, magnetic particles are injected into a tumor
or exposed to cancer cells, and a low frequency alternating
e m F is applied. Not quite Abram's theory, but
not quite not Abram's theory. In addition, while the US

(26:41):
Food and Drug Administration hasn't approved magnetic vibrations for the
treatment of any medical condition, pulsing electronic devices have been
approved for treating some diseases and are specifically being researched
for the promise they've shown in relieving symptoms of multiple sclerosis. Abrooms,
it seems, does live on. We'll never know if he

(27:04):
ever thought for a moment this might not work but
I'm going to keep going, or if he was a
true believer the whole time. We don't know. It's not
quite clear. But what we do know is that it's
time for scam sauce. But you got today. So here's

(27:25):
the thing. The paragraph that really got me here was
when we were talking about the dynamizer and specifically prescribing
quinine to people, because as you know, quinine isn't tonic water,
which gets used in cocktails all the time. I am
not tonics best friend, but I'm willing to reach out

(27:48):
in olive branch, and that is what we're doing today.
So this is a drink that I'm calling the Dynamizer,
and it has tonic and it has lots of delicious
antioxidant property. And you drop a magnet into the bottom.
There's no magnet in it. There's no trickery like that,

(28:09):
but there is delicious fruitiness. And I will say the
the mocked tail version of this is full of delicious
and good for you fruit. The cocktail has some, not
as much. First of all, you were gonna juice half
of an orange. You can do this however you wish.
I use my same juicer that I used for lemons

(28:29):
and limes. I just cut the orange down, but whatever
works for you. And you're going to put that into
a shaking tin. And then you were going to add
three quarters of an ounce of strawberry vodka, three quarters
of an ounce of watermelon vodka, three quarters and three
quarters of an ounce of or jia or just almond

(28:50):
syrup if you can't get and then you're gonna shake
that with some ice, strain it over ice into a
column's glass, and top it with tonic water. It's like
I'm drinking in alcohol like fruit salad. I'm really kind
of and it's really tasty the or ja. Really. If
you're like me and you do not like the taste
of tonic, the orja fixes it. Now. If you're also

(29:11):
like Holly, I do not wish to buy a bunch
of fruity vodkas, I have an easy fix. Toss a
few ounces in a small, little mason jar with some
strawberries overnight. Really a few days is better, and same
thing with some watermelon for a few days. You can
even I know people that like to then take that,

(29:32):
put it in the blender and then strain it out
so that they get a lot of fruit flavor. I
usually just muddle mine a little and let him sit
in the vodka. I'm lazy, but either way works great.
I happen to have those flavors of vodka on hand,
so it's easy peasy. But it's really really easy to
infuse any spirit with fruit right in your own home.
You just have to wait a couple of days. And

(29:53):
so if you are doing the mock tail version. You
can do that kind the same thing. You can mash
strawberries directly into it and really muddle the strawberry and
watermelon together with your orange juice, and then when you
strain it, you're gonna get all of the pulpy bits
out and you'll still have all of that beautiful, bright

(30:14):
juice and it's very, very yummy. You can also if
you want, and I actually didn't do this, but I
would like to try it, which is that you could
do this with those fruits whole and put that in
a blender and make like a little bread blended smoothie
with it, like a summer mocktail. Yes, which I think

(30:35):
might be delicious. So many things to try, but basically
super fruity, good for you. I feel like this is
a mocktail that at the end of the season, when
we pick our favorites, I feel like this is one
will be like the cocktail is great, but this is
the mocktail. But maybe as a note, we should mention
that quinine is not something you should take if um,

(31:00):
you know, you shouldn't be drinking tonic if you are
pregnant or nursing. Obviously, probably shouldn't be drinking this cocktail either,
but if you're making the mocktail, keep in mind not
that either. Or consult your physician. We're not doctors. Drink responsibly.
But also if there's anything that makes you go, should
I have that right now, I'm on a medication or
I'm in a state of things, check with your doctor

(31:21):
and then if if they say cool, then enjoy a
delicious sip. Yes, we are so thankful that you are
hanging out with us this season as we talk about
scam artists and people who maybe didn't mean to be
scam artists, like our friend Neighbrahams. But we will be
right back here next week with more stories just like

(31:44):
this and more drinks, so we hope you join us.
Criminalia is a production of Shonda land Audio in partnership
with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio,
please visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

(32:05):
wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
Advertise With Us

Hosts And Creators

Holly Frey

Holly Frey

Maria Trimarchi

Maria Trimarchi

Popular Podcasts

Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial

Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial

Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.

Good Hang with Amy Poehler

Good Hang with Amy Poehler

Come hang with Amy Poehler. Each week on her podcast, she'll welcome celebrities and fun people to her studio. They'll share stories about their careers, mutual friends, shared enthusiasms, and most importantly, what's been making them laugh. This podcast is not about trying to make you better or giving advice. Amy just wants to have a good time.

Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.

Connect

© 2025 iHeartMedia, Inc.