July 4, 2023 • 23 mins
Firefighters who set fires, officially called 'firefighter arsonists', may be small in number, but they definitely make an impact. While things like insurance fraud and covering up another crime are common motives for arson outside the firefighting community, experts say those aren't what drive firefighter arsonists. So how does this happen? How does a firefighter turn into arsonist? Well. Let's take a look.
Executive Producers: Maria Trimarchi and Holly Frey
Producer & Editor: Casby Bias
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
When Olie's Home Center hardware store on far Oaks Avenue
went up in flames on the evening of October tenth,
nineteen eighty four, in South Pasadena, California, the fire destroyed
the building and killed four people inside. Arson investigators declared
the cause was electrical in nature and that it was accidental,
but a man named John Orr disagreed with that assessment
(00:36):
and was sure that it was set intentionally. John Orr
is a former firefighter, fire captain, and arson investigator. He's
also a convicted serial arsonist, and the hardware store is
just one example of his crimes. He knew the store
fire was arson because he himself had ignited it or
(00:58):
set roughly too thousand fires in the Glendale, California area,
primarily between nineteen eighty four and nineteen ninety one. He
would set a fire and then he'd be part of
the team that investigated it. His peers at first thought
he had an uncanny knack for finding a fire's point
of origin. When Or was caught after his fingerprint was
(01:19):
found at a crime scene, he was charged and convicted
on four counts of first degree murder and multiple multiple
counts of arson. Sentenced without parole. It's expected he'll be
incarcerated for the remainder of his life. His fire setting
is unsettling, but he's actually part of a phenomenon firefighter
(01:39):
arson and it's what we're talking about in this episode.
Welcome to Criminalia. I'm Maria Tremarky.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
And I'm Holly Frye. Firefighters who set fires officially called
firefighter arsonists. That's not a new thing. Matthew Hines Aldrich,
lead author on the twenty eleven National Volunteer Fire Council's
Report on the Firefight Arson Problem and self titled Chief
Fire Data Nerd, explains that firefighter arsenists date at least
(02:08):
back to the eighteen thirties. That's when you first see
reports in the historical record of a farm laborer who
was also a part time firefighter who was also executed
for setting a series of fires. Today, the percent of
arsenists among the estimated one point two million firefighters in
(02:28):
the United States is very small, but they still have
a significant impact on both their communities and their units.
According to now retired arson investigator and profiler Edward Nordskog quote,
there's roughly one hundred firefighter arsenists convicted every year in
North America, and all of them are serial arsonists, which
(02:51):
means three or more fires. John Orr, who Maria mentioned
in that opening, is considered one of the most prolific,
if not the most prolific firefighter arsenist in history.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
So how does this happen? How does a firefighter turn
into an arsonist? Well, let's take a look. While insurance
fraud and personal profit are a few common motives for
arson outside the firefighting community, investigators say those aren't necessarily
what drive firefighter arsenists. In nineteen fifty one, Columbia University
(03:27):
psychiatrists Noel Lewis and Helen Yarnell published the results of
a first of its kind, large scale study of arsenists,
and they concluded that overall, arsenists were quote weak individuals.
Firefighter arsenists, in their findings, were even more problematic. Lewis
(03:47):
and Yarnell's research concluded these arsenists specifically were quote little
men with grandiose social ambitions whose natural equipment dooms them
to insignificance. As additional research was and is conducted, though
expert beliefs have evolved from categorizing the cause as weakness
to an answer that's just not so simple.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Multiple psychological studies have been conducted in more recent decades
since the nineteen fifties to determine why someone becomes a
firefighter arsenist. Even with a developed FBI profile, which we're
going to talk about in just a minute, still, the
majority of psychological evaluations that have been used to try
to determine if a person will become a firefighter arsenist,
(04:34):
they fail at the task. Detective Joseph Kitzinger, head of
the Arson Squad of the Suffolk County Police Department on
Long Island, New York, has stated, quote to pinpoint what
the actual motivation is, it's complicated. Experts who have studied
arson by firefighters agree that it is not easy to
determine what motivates a person to change from public servant
(04:57):
to felon. Former Connecticut at State Police Sergeant James Butterworth,
who spent years assigned to the State Fire Marshal's office,
adds that in his experience, quote, most don't want to
hurt anyone or cause anyone a loss of income. These
are people who usually begin as highly motivated and highly
(05:18):
trained firefighters. Current research shows that most firefighter arsonists don't
actually consider setting fires until after they have joined the
fire service, and the impulse usually develops within their first
few months or years on the job.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So this profile. In the nineteen nineties, the Federal Bureau
of Investigation's Behavior Analysis Unit conducted a series of interviews
with incarcerated firefighter arsonists, which they then used to outline
characteristics of firefighters and firefighter candidates most at risk for
becoming fire setters. When they released that profile in nineteen
(05:57):
ninety four, it included these nine actress okay, so. One.
They noted most offenders are white males between the ages
of seventeen and twenty five, And this makes sense when
you consider that in the United States, nearly all more
than ninety five percent of firefighters identify as male, and
eighty five percent are white.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Two.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
One or both parents were missing from the home during
that firefighter's childhood. If they grew up in an intact home,
the FBI described the emotional atmosphere as likely mixed and unstable. Three.
Many have a cold, distant, hostile, or aggressive relationship with
their biological father. Four they have poor marital adjustment, or
(06:43):
if they aren't married, it's likely they live with their parents.
Five they lack stable interpersonal relationships. Six they have poor
occupational adjustment, and also in regard to their work history,
they often have experience working in menial labor jobs and
racle positions or as skilled laborers. Seven they are interested
(07:05):
in fire service in the context that it provides a
stage for excitement, not for the public service.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Eight they are.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
At a higher risk for alcoholism, childhood hyperactivity, depression, borderline
personality disorder, and suicidal ideation. And last on their list,
firefighter arsonists have average to hire intelligence but poor academic performance.
So that is a lot to unpack. We're going to
(07:34):
take a break for a word from our sponsor, and
when we return, let's talk about this profile and the
slight variations and expansions that have occurred since it was compiled.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Welcome back to Criminalia. Let's talk about that profile that
Maria read about before the break, and let's also get
into what motivates a firefighter to commit acts of arson
and how it differs from arsonists in the general population.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
In the nineteen nineties, the FBI's National Center for the
Analysis of Violent Crime developed a report in which they
addressed the telltale signs a firefighter was intentionally setting fires.
One hallmark was a large increase of fires within that
fire department's area of operation. Their research also showed quote
that the number one motive was excitement, especially among young
(08:38):
firefighters who were eager to put their training to practical
use and to be seen as heroes to fellow firefighters
and the community they serve. Their research also corroborated that
the firefighter arsonist is likely to have worked with the
fire department for only a short time they reported less
than three years. Their report also described that most of
(09:00):
and firefighter arsenists follow a pattern. They begin by setting
small fires like dumpster fires or brush fires. The FBI
describes these as nuisance fires. The firefighter arsenist would then
advance to more serious cases, such as igniting vehicles or buildings.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
The National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime concluded
that the desire to be respected by their peers and
to show how proficient they are in their trade is
what often leads a firefighter to become an arsonist. So
let's talk about how the hero complex comes into play here.
Also called arson do to vanity. Problems can develop when
(09:40):
a firefighter seeks praise or attention from their community for
doing their job. Some profiles of firefighter arsenists call them
vanity fire setters and describe them as often being young
and inexperienced, with an inclination toward drama or a need
for an adrenaline rush. According to doctor k Our Fineman,
(10:01):
a forensic and clinical psychologist, volunteer firefighters who commit arson
often see themselves as outsiders and they have an intense
need for approval. Many act alone in their crimes, but
experts believe that when firefighter arson is a group effort,
it's often a result or a consequence of young firefighters
(10:22):
intense feelings of camaraderie and fraternity with those in their firehouse,
says Fineman. Similarly to the report by the National Center
for the Analysis of Violent Crime, quote they want so
very much to prove themselves and be seen not just
as a hero, but as someone who is doing the
work properly. A two thousand and three report by the
(10:44):
United States Fire Administration echoes this and states that quote
their main reason for lighting the fire is so they
can appear as a hero. Either by being the first
to spot the flames or by rescuing people and saving property.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
In addition to the hero complex factor in firefighter arson cases,
boredom is also a factor, as fire departments in rural
towns and suburbs may not have many opportunities to roll
out their equipment. Fires just may not occur very frequently
in their region. Former arson investigator Nordskog has said of
the phenomenon, quote, it's not uncommon for a firefighter to
(11:22):
not see a fire for months at a time, and
boredom sets in. Stephen wolutis, a lawyer in Comac, New York,
has represented firefighter arsonists in court and agrees competitiveness can
drive a young firefighter. He has said, quote, firefighters would
go to many tournaments with other fire departments, and some
were ribbed at how inactive their fire department was, how
(11:45):
they didn't have a lot of fires.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So there's the hero complex, then there's the desire for excitement,
and then there's also the problem of family tradition. Nordskog,
whose work includes improving the profile of firefighter arsenists, has
explained that family legacy, which is common in protective services
works such as firefighting and law enforcement can also sometimes
(12:10):
be a factor. He stated, quote, some of these guys
are trying to live up to the war stories of
their parents or uncles who may have been in the
fire service in the past.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Daniel Aber is a retired agent who worked with the
Department of Justices Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
as an arsen and explosives investigator for many of his
twenty seven years in law enforcement. Of the motivations affecting
firefighter arsonists, he like other current experts, agrees that most
(12:42):
firefighters who engage in arson do so out of boredom
or competitiveness, but he also adds that some, under a
misguided guys believe that it will help with a fire
unit's training efforts. Lighting fires illegally is a felony, whether
the arsonist is a firefighter or not. Aber has stated
to potential and active firefighter arsonists quote, understand this, This
(13:06):
is not a game. It is a crime. You will
be caught at some point and no mercy will come
your way.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
On that severe statement, We're going to take a break
for a word from our sponsor, and when we return
we'll discuss how and why the profile that's been created
isn't really working, and how firehouses have historically dealt with
in house firefighter arsenists.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Welcome back to criminalia. We've talked about what experts have
learned about the problem, so now let's talk about how
they're trying to fix it.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Firefighters who intentionally light illegal fires are a bit of
a contradiction researchers, universities, the FBI. Many people have been
studying them for years to try to better understand them.
Retired FBI arson analyst Timothy Huff has written about the
importance of candidates screening and background checks and a need
(14:17):
for increased awareness and action among firehouses to proactively face
this problem. Experts have tried for years to use available
research to identify who's an arson risk before they become
a firefighter, but with little luck. Retired arson and explosives
investigator A Bear has said of the phenomenon, quote, it
(14:39):
happens more than you think. Really, it goes on way
more than anyone knows. We don't know about most of.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Them, Describing what it's like hiring and managing firefighters. Albert Lampy,
former chief of the Edison Division of Fire in New
Jersey has explained that the law allowed him as chief
to really scrutinize his paid employees much more rigorously than
volunteer firefighters and candidates. Said Lampy quote, it's hard to
(15:09):
deny someone when they want to be a volunteer, but
you can't require a volunteer to submit to psychological testing
and other screening procedures. Volunteer applicants, just like professional applicants,
must pass the Candidate Physical Ability Test, which assesses your
ability to physically do the job. Candidates also must pass
(15:29):
a written test designed to evaluate basically two things. A
person's cognitive abilities, such as your ability to read and
understand policies and directives and tactical plans, and it also
evaluates your non cognitive traits, such as whether or not
you're a team player, but there's little emphasis placed on
psychological evaluation.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Today, the latest research is being used to educate fire
departments about the arson phenomenon and how to end what
some experts call a culture of inside firehouses. According to
a bear quote, there's a mentality among firefighters to protect
your own and though it's not something that's spoken about,
some fire units quietly push out firefighters when they suspect
(16:15):
them of arson. Some units historically have chosen to deal
with the problem internally. But here's the thing. Many incidents
are unreported, and that is how it's been for a
long time. Nordskog, who tracks serial arson cases, has stated
that quote most law enforcement records don't routinely differentiate between
(16:36):
arsenists who are firefighters and those who are not, and
of those known to be firefighter arsenists, he explains, quote,
fire agencies historically hide these states. Heinz Aldrich of the
unhealthy culture. Quote. This has long been a taboo topic
in the fire service.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Now retired New Hampshire State Fire Marshal Bill Degnan has
stated quote, I feel very strongly that an arsonist needs
to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
He's also said that he has quote no patience and
zero compassion for arson and personally believes the crime is
more egregious when it's committed by a firefighter. According to Degnant, quote,
(17:17):
they're in a position of public trust. Whether they're full
time paid firefighters or their volunteers, they should all be
held to the same standard.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Some experts have recommended national databases or tracking systems to
be implemented, but without a comprehensive psychological evaluation for all
firefighters during the onboarding and hiring process. Those who study
the phenomenon believe fire units will continue to fail to
eliminate any in every candidate who is likely to be
(17:48):
or become an arsonist. In some jurisdictions. In some states
in the US, firefighter arsen task forces have been established,
and they focus on training and education as well as
things like how to conduct an appropriate background check. Retired
fire Commissioner David Fischler of the Suffolk County Department of Fire,
Rescue and Emergency Services has said, quote, there are people
(18:12):
who are bad apples in any profession. Anytime we can
stop just one person, it's a success.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
So I hear, we have a tasty drink to go
along with this.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Listen, it's very delicious. It is not a hot thing.
It has no holapana or smoke note at all. But
I was trying to think of something because this is
one of those things that for me and I suspect
a lot of other people is a scary topic. Yes,
the idea that the people that are sworn to protect
(18:51):
you are in fact not going to do that is upsetting.
So I thought, maybe while we deal with these issues,
we have a drink that is comforting and delicious. I
was thinking about that phrase regarding bad apples. I will
say this. I'm calling it the bad Apple, but like,
that's not a very original name for a drink, and
(19:11):
I know that there are a lot of drinks called
bad apple. But this is our version, and it starts
with things we have not put in a drink before.
And you're gonna be like, Holly, you might have lost
it finally, or maybe you've always thought I had, but
this does something really lovely. So you're actually gonna start
with a half a cup of apple sauce, throw that
(19:35):
in your shaking tin, and then add in two ounces
of vodka and let that sit while you're getting your
other stuff together. Give it a stir. You can also,
if you want to, like kick it up a little
and make it fen sy, add a couple of drops
of bitters. I have a bitter called Golden Bitters, and
it's got like cardamom and like very warm but soft
(19:56):
notes to it. So if you want to, you can
literally just add cardamom or something from your spice rack
or your spice cabinet and that works too, So again,
let that all sit together after a good stir, and
then you will add to your shaking tin a half
ounce of lemon juice, a half ounce of demarar syrup,
(20:19):
and a half ounce of vanilla liqure, and then you'll
put your ice in and you'll I would do a
dry shake without ice first because that apple sauce does
some things to the viscosity. And then I would add
your ice and shake it so you get it nice
and cold. And then you're obviously gonna have to double
strain this. You don't want a slushy. You want something
almost It takes on the notes of the apple sauce
(20:44):
and some of the thickness from it, but it's still
very liquid. It's not it's not putting ye inconsistency or
heavy like that. So you're gonna double strain it, strain
it basically over a mess strainer. I had to let
mine sit for a few minutes and strain itself because
that apple sauce does trap a lot of moisture. But
then what you have do that over ice. It's such
(21:05):
a beautiful drink because you get a lot of that
beautiful apple flavor. That warm note if you've added the
bitters or the cardamom does a really nice thing, and
the vanilla finish like it's not too sweet. I didn't
mention I would use unsweetened apple sauce. You literally just
want pure ead apple involved. You don't want extra sugars
in there. It's like a grown up version of an
(21:27):
apple e drink that's not too candy like. It's like
the flavor of apple without all the sugar, and that's
really nice. So that is the bad apple. Here is
how you do the mock tanpe. Oh yeah, I have
been saying that I'm trying to ease off of things
like cinnamon that are very obvious things, but this might
be one where you can't avoid it. Because I would
start with if your local store has like an apple
(21:50):
tea that's great ours, which is just like a big
chain grocery store, they only had an option that was
apple with cinnamon in it, and that's fine, but just
know and in that case you are you can use
apple tea in lieu of that vodka. If you really
only want regular apple sauce flavor, you can actually use
water here and it's gonna be fine and then in
(22:14):
lieu of vanilla liqueur, you're going to use vanilla syrup.
But if you do that, you might want to dial
back on the demurra a little bit. We already have
only a half ounce, but you could pull it back
to a quarter ounce to soften up the sweetness. Otherwise
the bad apple. It will make you feel sort of comforted,
even though you know that they're firefighter arsonists. Again, I
(22:35):
feel compelled to note that it's a small, small percentage.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Remember we set one hundred people in North America out
of the one point two million in the United States.
This is a small.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Number, but small. But if you find that unsettling, of
course it is. It's unsettling that anybody wants to see
these kinds of things. Have a little drink, whether it's
alcoholic or not, and just comfort yourself. We hope that
you have enjoyed this time with us, even if it
is unsettling information, and we will be right back here
again next week with another story of arsen and I
(23:13):
Know that a Little drinky poop. Criminalia is a production
of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
from Shondaland Audio, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
(23:33):
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
with iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
When Olie's Home Center hardware store on far Oaks Avenue
went up in flames on the evening of October tenth,
nineteen eighty four, in South Pasadena, California, the fire destroyed
the building and killed four people inside. Arson investigators declared
the cause was electrical in nature and that it was accidental,
but a man named John Orr disagreed with that assessment
(00:36):
and was sure that it was set intentionally. John Orr
is a former firefighter, fire captain, and arson investigator. He's
also a convicted serial arsonist, and the hardware store is
just one example of his crimes. He knew the store
fire was arson because he himself had ignited it or
(00:58):
set roughly too thousand fires in the Glendale, California area,
primarily between nineteen eighty four and nineteen ninety one. He
would set a fire and then he'd be part of
the team that investigated it. His peers at first thought
he had an uncanny knack for finding a fire's point
of origin. When Or was caught after his fingerprint was
(01:19):
found at a crime scene, he was charged and convicted
on four counts of first degree murder and multiple multiple
counts of arson. Sentenced without parole. It's expected he'll be
incarcerated for the remainder of his life. His fire setting
is unsettling, but he's actually part of a phenomenon firefighter
(01:39):
arson and it's what we're talking about in this episode.
Welcome to Criminalia. I'm Maria Tremarky.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
And I'm Holly Frye. Firefighters who set fires officially called
firefighter arsonists. That's not a new thing. Matthew Hines Aldrich,
lead author on the twenty eleven National Volunteer Fire Council's
Report on the Firefight Arson Problem and self titled Chief
Fire Data Nerd, explains that firefighter arsenists date at least
(02:08):
back to the eighteen thirties. That's when you first see
reports in the historical record of a farm laborer who
was also a part time firefighter who was also executed
for setting a series of fires. Today, the percent of
arsenists among the estimated one point two million firefighters in
(02:28):
the United States is very small, but they still have
a significant impact on both their communities and their units.
According to now retired arson investigator and profiler Edward Nordskog quote,
there's roughly one hundred firefighter arsenists convicted every year in
North America, and all of them are serial arsonists, which
(02:51):
means three or more fires. John Orr, who Maria mentioned
in that opening, is considered one of the most prolific,
if not the most prolific firefighter arsenist in history.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
So how does this happen? How does a firefighter turn
into an arsonist? Well, let's take a look. While insurance
fraud and personal profit are a few common motives for
arson outside the firefighting community, investigators say those aren't necessarily
what drive firefighter arsenists. In nineteen fifty one, Columbia University
(03:27):
psychiatrists Noel Lewis and Helen Yarnell published the results of
a first of its kind, large scale study of arsenists,
and they concluded that overall, arsenists were quote weak individuals.
Firefighter arsenists, in their findings, were even more problematic. Lewis
(03:47):
and Yarnell's research concluded these arsenists specifically were quote little
men with grandiose social ambitions whose natural equipment dooms them
to insignificance. As additional research was and is conducted, though
expert beliefs have evolved from categorizing the cause as weakness
to an answer that's just not so simple.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Multiple psychological studies have been conducted in more recent decades
since the nineteen fifties to determine why someone becomes a
firefighter arsenist. Even with a developed FBI profile, which we're
going to talk about in just a minute, still, the
majority of psychological evaluations that have been used to try
to determine if a person will become a firefighter arsenist,
(04:34):
they fail at the task. Detective Joseph Kitzinger, head of
the Arson Squad of the Suffolk County Police Department on
Long Island, New York, has stated, quote to pinpoint what
the actual motivation is, it's complicated. Experts who have studied
arson by firefighters agree that it is not easy to
determine what motivates a person to change from public servant
(04:57):
to felon. Former Connecticut at State Police Sergeant James Butterworth,
who spent years assigned to the State Fire Marshal's office,
adds that in his experience, quote, most don't want to
hurt anyone or cause anyone a loss of income. These
are people who usually begin as highly motivated and highly
(05:18):
trained firefighters. Current research shows that most firefighter arsonists don't
actually consider setting fires until after they have joined the
fire service, and the impulse usually develops within their first
few months or years on the job.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So this profile. In the nineteen nineties, the Federal Bureau
of Investigation's Behavior Analysis Unit conducted a series of interviews
with incarcerated firefighter arsonists, which they then used to outline
characteristics of firefighters and firefighter candidates most at risk for
becoming fire setters. When they released that profile in nineteen
(05:57):
ninety four, it included these nine actress okay, so. One.
They noted most offenders are white males between the ages
of seventeen and twenty five, And this makes sense when
you consider that in the United States, nearly all more
than ninety five percent of firefighters identify as male, and
eighty five percent are white.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Two.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
One or both parents were missing from the home during
that firefighter's childhood. If they grew up in an intact home,
the FBI described the emotional atmosphere as likely mixed and unstable. Three.
Many have a cold, distant, hostile, or aggressive relationship with
their biological father. Four they have poor marital adjustment, or
(06:43):
if they aren't married, it's likely they live with their parents.
Five they lack stable interpersonal relationships. Six they have poor
occupational adjustment, and also in regard to their work history,
they often have experience working in menial labor jobs and
racle positions or as skilled laborers. Seven they are interested
(07:05):
in fire service in the context that it provides a
stage for excitement, not for the public service.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Eight they are.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
At a higher risk for alcoholism, childhood hyperactivity, depression, borderline
personality disorder, and suicidal ideation. And last on their list,
firefighter arsonists have average to hire intelligence but poor academic performance.
So that is a lot to unpack. We're going to
(07:34):
take a break for a word from our sponsor, and
when we return, let's talk about this profile and the
slight variations and expansions that have occurred since it was compiled.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Welcome back to Criminalia. Let's talk about that profile that
Maria read about before the break, and let's also get
into what motivates a firefighter to commit acts of arson
and how it differs from arsonists in the general population.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
In the nineteen nineties, the FBI's National Center for the
Analysis of Violent Crime developed a report in which they
addressed the telltale signs a firefighter was intentionally setting fires.
One hallmark was a large increase of fires within that
fire department's area of operation. Their research also showed quote
that the number one motive was excitement, especially among young
(08:38):
firefighters who were eager to put their training to practical
use and to be seen as heroes to fellow firefighters
and the community they serve. Their research also corroborated that
the firefighter arsonist is likely to have worked with the
fire department for only a short time they reported less
than three years. Their report also described that most of
(09:00):
and firefighter arsenists follow a pattern. They begin by setting
small fires like dumpster fires or brush fires. The FBI
describes these as nuisance fires. The firefighter arsenist would then
advance to more serious cases, such as igniting vehicles or buildings.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
The National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime concluded
that the desire to be respected by their peers and
to show how proficient they are in their trade is
what often leads a firefighter to become an arsonist. So
let's talk about how the hero complex comes into play here.
Also called arson do to vanity. Problems can develop when
(09:40):
a firefighter seeks praise or attention from their community for
doing their job. Some profiles of firefighter arsenists call them
vanity fire setters and describe them as often being young
and inexperienced, with an inclination toward drama or a need
for an adrenaline rush. According to doctor k Our Fineman,
(10:01):
a forensic and clinical psychologist, volunteer firefighters who commit arson
often see themselves as outsiders and they have an intense
need for approval. Many act alone in their crimes, but
experts believe that when firefighter arson is a group effort,
it's often a result or a consequence of young firefighters
(10:22):
intense feelings of camaraderie and fraternity with those in their firehouse,
says Fineman. Similarly to the report by the National Center
for the Analysis of Violent Crime, quote they want so
very much to prove themselves and be seen not just
as a hero, but as someone who is doing the
work properly. A two thousand and three report by the
(10:44):
United States Fire Administration echoes this and states that quote
their main reason for lighting the fire is so they
can appear as a hero. Either by being the first
to spot the flames or by rescuing people and saving property.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
In addition to the hero complex factor in firefighter arson cases,
boredom is also a factor, as fire departments in rural
towns and suburbs may not have many opportunities to roll
out their equipment. Fires just may not occur very frequently
in their region. Former arson investigator Nordskog has said of
the phenomenon, quote, it's not uncommon for a firefighter to
(11:22):
not see a fire for months at a time, and
boredom sets in. Stephen wolutis, a lawyer in Comac, New York,
has represented firefighter arsonists in court and agrees competitiveness can
drive a young firefighter. He has said, quote, firefighters would
go to many tournaments with other fire departments, and some
were ribbed at how inactive their fire department was, how
(11:45):
they didn't have a lot of fires.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So there's the hero complex, then there's the desire for excitement,
and then there's also the problem of family tradition. Nordskog,
whose work includes improving the profile of firefighter arsenists, has
explained that family legacy, which is common in protective services
works such as firefighting and law enforcement can also sometimes
(12:10):
be a factor. He stated, quote, some of these guys
are trying to live up to the war stories of
their parents or uncles who may have been in the
fire service in the past.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Daniel Aber is a retired agent who worked with the
Department of Justices Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
as an arsen and explosives investigator for many of his
twenty seven years in law enforcement. Of the motivations affecting
firefighter arsonists, he like other current experts, agrees that most
(12:42):
firefighters who engage in arson do so out of boredom
or competitiveness, but he also adds that some, under a
misguided guys believe that it will help with a fire
unit's training efforts. Lighting fires illegally is a felony, whether
the arsonist is a firefighter or not. Aber has stated
to potential and active firefighter arsonists quote, understand this, This
(13:06):
is not a game. It is a crime. You will
be caught at some point and no mercy will come
your way.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
On that severe statement, We're going to take a break
for a word from our sponsor, and when we return
we'll discuss how and why the profile that's been created
isn't really working, and how firehouses have historically dealt with
in house firefighter arsenists.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Welcome back to criminalia. We've talked about what experts have
learned about the problem, so now let's talk about how
they're trying to fix it.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Firefighters who intentionally light illegal fires are a bit of
a contradiction researchers, universities, the FBI. Many people have been
studying them for years to try to better understand them.
Retired FBI arson analyst Timothy Huff has written about the
importance of candidates screening and background checks and a need
(14:17):
for increased awareness and action among firehouses to proactively face
this problem. Experts have tried for years to use available
research to identify who's an arson risk before they become
a firefighter, but with little luck. Retired arson and explosives
investigator A Bear has said of the phenomenon, quote, it
(14:39):
happens more than you think. Really, it goes on way
more than anyone knows. We don't know about most of.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Them, Describing what it's like hiring and managing firefighters. Albert Lampy,
former chief of the Edison Division of Fire in New
Jersey has explained that the law allowed him as chief
to really scrutinize his paid employees much more rigorously than
volunteer firefighters and candidates. Said Lampy quote, it's hard to
(15:09):
deny someone when they want to be a volunteer, but
you can't require a volunteer to submit to psychological testing
and other screening procedures. Volunteer applicants, just like professional applicants,
must pass the Candidate Physical Ability Test, which assesses your
ability to physically do the job. Candidates also must pass
(15:29):
a written test designed to evaluate basically two things. A
person's cognitive abilities, such as your ability to read and
understand policies and directives and tactical plans, and it also
evaluates your non cognitive traits, such as whether or not
you're a team player, but there's little emphasis placed on
psychological evaluation.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Today, the latest research is being used to educate fire
departments about the arson phenomenon and how to end what
some experts call a culture of inside firehouses. According to
a bear quote, there's a mentality among firefighters to protect
your own and though it's not something that's spoken about,
some fire units quietly push out firefighters when they suspect
(16:15):
them of arson. Some units historically have chosen to deal
with the problem internally. But here's the thing. Many incidents
are unreported, and that is how it's been for a
long time. Nordskog, who tracks serial arson cases, has stated
that quote most law enforcement records don't routinely differentiate between
(16:36):
arsenists who are firefighters and those who are not, and
of those known to be firefighter arsenists, he explains, quote,
fire agencies historically hide these states. Heinz Aldrich of the
unhealthy culture. Quote. This has long been a taboo topic
in the fire service.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Now retired New Hampshire State Fire Marshal Bill Degnan has
stated quote, I feel very strongly that an arsonist needs
to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
He's also said that he has quote no patience and
zero compassion for arson and personally believes the crime is
more egregious when it's committed by a firefighter. According to Degnant, quote,
(17:17):
they're in a position of public trust. Whether they're full
time paid firefighters or their volunteers, they should all be
held to the same standard.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Some experts have recommended national databases or tracking systems to
be implemented, but without a comprehensive psychological evaluation for all
firefighters during the onboarding and hiring process. Those who study
the phenomenon believe fire units will continue to fail to
eliminate any in every candidate who is likely to be
(17:48):
or become an arsonist. In some jurisdictions. In some states
in the US, firefighter arsen task forces have been established,
and they focus on training and education as well as
things like how to conduct an appropriate background check. Retired
fire Commissioner David Fischler of the Suffolk County Department of Fire,
Rescue and Emergency Services has said, quote, there are people
(18:12):
who are bad apples in any profession. Anytime we can
stop just one person, it's a success.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
So I hear, we have a tasty drink to go
along with this.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Listen, it's very delicious. It is not a hot thing.
It has no holapana or smoke note at all. But
I was trying to think of something because this is
one of those things that for me and I suspect
a lot of other people is a scary topic. Yes,
the idea that the people that are sworn to protect
(18:51):
you are in fact not going to do that is upsetting.
So I thought, maybe while we deal with these issues,
we have a drink that is comforting and delicious. I
was thinking about that phrase regarding bad apples. I will
say this. I'm calling it the bad Apple, but like,
that's not a very original name for a drink, and
(19:11):
I know that there are a lot of drinks called
bad apple. But this is our version, and it starts
with things we have not put in a drink before.
And you're gonna be like, Holly, you might have lost
it finally, or maybe you've always thought I had, but
this does something really lovely. So you're actually gonna start
with a half a cup of apple sauce, throw that
(19:35):
in your shaking tin, and then add in two ounces
of vodka and let that sit while you're getting your
other stuff together. Give it a stir. You can also,
if you want to, like kick it up a little
and make it fen sy, add a couple of drops
of bitters. I have a bitter called Golden Bitters, and
it's got like cardamom and like very warm but soft
(19:56):
notes to it. So if you want to, you can
literally just add cardamom or something from your spice rack
or your spice cabinet and that works too, So again,
let that all sit together after a good stir, and
then you will add to your shaking tin a half
ounce of lemon juice, a half ounce of demarar syrup,
(20:19):
and a half ounce of vanilla liqure, and then you'll
put your ice in and you'll I would do a
dry shake without ice first because that apple sauce does
some things to the viscosity. And then I would add
your ice and shake it so you get it nice
and cold. And then you're obviously gonna have to double
strain this. You don't want a slushy. You want something
almost It takes on the notes of the apple sauce
(20:44):
and some of the thickness from it, but it's still
very liquid. It's not it's not putting ye inconsistency or
heavy like that. So you're gonna double strain it, strain
it basically over a mess strainer. I had to let
mine sit for a few minutes and strain itself because
that apple sauce does trap a lot of moisture. But
then what you have do that over ice. It's such
(21:05):
a beautiful drink because you get a lot of that
beautiful apple flavor. That warm note if you've added the
bitters or the cardamom does a really nice thing, and
the vanilla finish like it's not too sweet. I didn't
mention I would use unsweetened apple sauce. You literally just
want pure ead apple involved. You don't want extra sugars
in there. It's like a grown up version of an
(21:27):
apple e drink that's not too candy like. It's like
the flavor of apple without all the sugar, and that's
really nice. So that is the bad apple. Here is
how you do the mock tanpe. Oh yeah, I have
been saying that I'm trying to ease off of things
like cinnamon that are very obvious things, but this might
be one where you can't avoid it. Because I would
start with if your local store has like an apple
(21:50):
tea that's great ours, which is just like a big
chain grocery store, they only had an option that was
apple with cinnamon in it, and that's fine, but just
know and in that case you are you can use
apple tea in lieu of that vodka. If you really
only want regular apple sauce flavor, you can actually use
water here and it's gonna be fine and then in
(22:14):
lieu of vanilla liqueur, you're going to use vanilla syrup.
But if you do that, you might want to dial
back on the demurra a little bit. We already have
only a half ounce, but you could pull it back
to a quarter ounce to soften up the sweetness. Otherwise
the bad apple. It will make you feel sort of comforted,
even though you know that they're firefighter arsonists. Again, I
(22:35):
feel compelled to note that it's a small, small percentage.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Remember we set one hundred people in North America out
of the one point two million in the United States.
This is a small.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Number, but small. But if you find that unsettling, of
course it is. It's unsettling that anybody wants to see
these kinds of things. Have a little drink, whether it's
alcoholic or not, and just comfort yourself. We hope that
you have enjoyed this time with us, even if it
is unsettling information, and we will be right back here
again next week with another story of arsen and I
(23:13):
Know that a Little drinky poop. Criminalia is a production
of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
from Shondaland Audio, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
(23:33):
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Holly Frey
Maria Trimarchi
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