August 21, 2025 • 17 mins
In this vulnerable and necessary episode of Culture Raises Us, Grace Harry returns to unpack the layers of intimacy—beyond the purely physical—and why so many men struggle to truly connect in their closest relationships. From emotional suppression learned in childhood to the weight of the “provider” and “protector” labels, Grace breaks down the cultural programming that keeps intimacy taboo for men and limits their ability to fully show up in all areas of life.
She offers practical, compassionate steps for men to build their “intimacy literacy,” including how to soften with themselves, embrace curiosity, and receive feedback without defensiveness. This isn’t just about romance—it’s about building deeper emotional, spiritual, intellectual, and physical connections with everyone in your life.
Whether you’re redefining intimacy for yourself or trying to understand it in your relationships, this conversation challenges old narratives and offers a pathway to something richer and more authentic.
#CultureRaisesUs #GraceHarry #MenAndIntimacy #EmotionalConnection #VulnerabilityIsStrength #RelationshipGrowth #EmotionalIntelligence #HealthyMasculinity #PersonalGrowth #IntimacyLiteracy #BreakingStereotypes
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
So today we're gonna do a dig into a topic
that many avoid for I think many reasons, but desperately neat,
which is intimacy, specifically what it means for me and
why so many struggle, I think, to truly connect even
in their closest relationships. And Grace Harry, the Joy strategist
(00:24):
and our very familiar guest of the show, hit me
with this topic and said we have to have this conversation. Asker,
this is a must. And when you first brought this up,
I was thinking to myself, that is a message being
sent that Grace has heard on the street that my
intimacy barometer was off. But then once I removed myself
from the thought, it was very clear that this wasn't
(00:48):
just about you know, just sexual romantic thing, but it
was emotional, spiritual, intellectual, and physical. So I'd love to
start from you. What's your definition of intimacy? Oooh?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
First of all, this is why I love talking to
We never just kind of grow at it linear.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
New.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
You know what's interesting is that if you asked me
this question almost every year, you would have gotten a
different answer. And I feel as I get to know
myself in truth and I actually allow intimacy to flourish
in my own heart, which to me is vulnerable, which
is being vulnerable enough with yourself to know that you
(01:34):
are your own best lover, your own juicy, yourself, and
therefore you feel safe enough to communicate from that foundation
with everybody that you have a relationship with in your life.
And what we have to understand is that we have
an intimate relationship with every single person in our life,
(01:55):
even if it's someone that you're sharing to commute with
for an hour. We're in these intimate basis. And yet
what we've been trained to do from society, you know,
well intended amateur adults and the concept of the world
based on what's in fashion, from how we socialize and communicate,
is to put our shells on and to just you know,
(02:17):
say the niceties and be kind even about our own selves.
How are you, I am fine?
Speaker 1 (02:23):
It's a train, it's such a program. It's a program,
the answer program, the answer.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
And so we immediately have this concept of how to
not be an intimacy and we wonder why this behavior
doesn't work when we get into personal intimacy, when we're
one on one with a partner, and so to me,
intimacy is feeling confident enough in myself, in my relationship
with myself to only be in relationship with others professionally,
(02:50):
personally in my own family, which is complicated. That speak
to how I want to be, how I want to
be intimate with those people in my life. There's a
book I've been reading called The Courage to Be Disliked,
and really the whole premise of the book is that
everything in life is about how we deal with our
interpersonal relationships. So that's what intimacy is to me now.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
So I think it's obvious then that men have definitely
been miseducated about intimacy by our culture, by our media
and traditions, It's pretty safe to say. And with that,
I think studies have also shown that emotional suppression often
begins in childhood for boys, And I'm thinking, is there
(03:34):
a long term link to intimacy issues here as well?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Oh, jackpot. And what's even more complicated. Just to add
to that very poignant summation of the root of it,
it also that you add what decade you're born into,
what culture you're born into, what's happening societally? Are we
in a time of war, are we at a time
of peace? All these things play a hand in how
(04:02):
we are supposed to show up. And what's very interesting
to me as a fifty five year old, I'm seeing
this huge divide which is even changing relationship relationships at
our age of how younger people are with each other
intimately and how people fifty and above are with each
other intimately. And what I'm noticing is that because there's
(04:22):
a lot less rules around how you show up in
whatever I know, we're not supposed to say the G
word that you want to identify as that you're taking
off a lot of the must bes and the must
jews and the must behaves that come with the way
you are as a man or a woman in the
way a lot of people are trained and raised traditionally.
(04:44):
And so this even this concept that I don't even
have to decide to such a finite, boring binary way
when I am, makes me more intimate with the world
at large. And that's intimate with how I represent myself
and how I speak about my look and my fashion,
how I speak to other people with the same concept
(05:07):
of gender. Like, all those things are a problem, but
at the root of all of it it's really getting
back to the recipe of your intimacy and getting deeper
than yourself to understand that and not feeling afraid enough
of what other people that those interpersonal concepts will feel
about it to let myself grow in that way, which
is intimacy.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, But so why is talking about intimacy still such
a taboo amongst men in many cultures? And talk about
the consequence of that silence because it doesn't help. It's
not helping.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Well, we're in a you're on a hind of percent, right,
it's not helping on many levels. And you know, again,
we live in this I don't know where I said again,
we live in a fake news So take everything with
a grain of salt or what it really hits you.
But there's all these reports now that we're in a
pandemic of a loneness, a loneliness pandemic, and a loneness pandemic.
And the real root of that issue, back to that book,
(06:04):
is we have been so trained to be cordial that
we're never honest with ourselves or each other. And so like,
for example, now we're all this, we would care like
we want kids to be honest. We don't we want
kids to know we protect them, but still we'll go
into a family event and be angry that they didn't
kiss uncle astor So there's a lot of confusing messages
(06:25):
that entangle our ego and our pride and how we
show up for others, even when it comes to our kids.
And we teach that message so young that how you
feel is less important and how someone else feels. And
so that's why it's so complicated, because it feels like
it feels almost like an affront to your family that
you're doing something morally wrong.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
When you are honest, deeply right, right right, and intimacy or.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
You can survive if we're deeply honest with ourselves and
each other.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, when you started with the key words of being
vulnerable and being confident, which I think once you start
with that, you can push through the programming of the
cordial surfaceness, I think that you have been highlighted. It
is so we are surface, you know. It's so funny.
(07:18):
I try to exercise years ago with the you know,
the how you're doing, and everybody always says, oh, I'm good,
and I did one day I said, you know, somebody
said how you doing? I said, actually, I'm dying and
they're like, oh, that's great, and they just kept going
with the conversation. No, no, no, But because we're so
programmed to know or think of the response that's coming
and that I then would follow up with another surface
(07:40):
response of oh, that's good to hear that you're good.
And I was like, no, I actually said I'm dying,
and then like, you said you're dying, Yeah, but I'm not.
But I just said that because we go through this
how are you doing process and not really even are
thinking or wanting to really hear what it is. You
were just doing that as a form of going through
(08:00):
the exercise, right, So again it's it's it's eliminating the services.
I'm coming back to those two words that you were saying,
of courage and confidence that I think with men. I
also look at the impact of the label of provider
and protector identity that has been on men and showing
(08:21):
up in this very the relationship or the positioning that
we have in society. Is that another hindrance as well
for for men lacking a true understanding of intimacy by
being given the label of provider protector, so intimacy doesn't
come within that that that that that that kind, that
that forming of the formula.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yes, I mean you sis said so many things. You
said something in there. I can't remember what you've said,
but it was like exactly the reason is what you said.
But yes, one hundred percent. And and the thing is
is that there's so much fear around actually saying the
thing because we have to be comfortable enough to say
the true thing to our own selves. And so if
(09:07):
you have these labels and these concepts of what it
means to be a man or a provider or a woman,
and I can even give you examples of where I
both built concepts of love in my life and then
built a story around them and stuck to it even
though it was not a truth of my own heart.
But so I think it's men and women, but for
men especially it's confusing because it's in the nuance, in
(09:27):
the flexibility, it's in the curiosity, and the very concept
is especially I find forty and older, of being a
man and a provider is knowing and being confident and
knowing how to do the thing. And so the flexibility
and the curiosity and the openness that vulnerability and intimacy
relies on as a foundation goes away when your first
(09:48):
concept is like I know, you know what I'm saying,
and you're seeing such a huge divide. I know so
many people now our age who are choosing to lean
very long time relationships, like another one today he just
was revealed me. And it's so fascinating to watch who
people choose after that, right, like who people are looking
towards after And I'm noticing it's a much softer experience.
(10:12):
It's a much more simple experience. And I wonder if
we get to a point where we don't understand that
every version of intimacy, even with ourselves, requires that every
time we have a new experience, we have to integrate
that and present ourselves again as this new person. But
relationships are so hard that we don't even want to
rock the boat. So we find somebody new, we're not
(10:33):
going to tell them we now they're going to respond.
And so now you have a twenty year, ten year,
fifteen year relationship that you've grown apart in your not lies,
but in your just exhaustion to not be under exhaustion
of being misunderstood. So now you're leaning towards an experience
where you can be your full self and you can
(10:54):
be your full, softer self. And so I feel like
all of that goes back to the same things again
for men, because when you're highlighting that it's to be okay,
being an intimacy is being okay not knowing.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah, yeah, let's let's so let's let's go on the
flip side, right. And are there signs that a man
may be showing intimacy in a way that goes unnoticed
or unappreciated due to cultural expectations.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yes, and no. Because it's funny. I had a big
debate that turns almost into an argument with a friend
of ours a couple months ago about this exact thing,
and he used the same word appreciated. And he said
to me, you know, if women understood that men need
to be appreciated, then we would be better at being
the protector and the you know, and the provider. Right,
(11:50):
And I said, I hear that. I totally hear that.
Everybody wants to be appreciated. Everybody wants to be loved everyone,
everybody wants their love gesture.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Seeing.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
But if you have someone that loves you, love and
they love you, and they have any level of a
complaint or an issue or an interest to try something
or hear something. The problem that happens right here now
is there's an opportunity, but I find that this appreciation
thing that's going around is making people feel like more
(12:22):
up against the wall. Well they should just appreciate and
not in an opportunity to inquire and be confident enough
for themselves and say, hey, asther, I've gave you this
compliment four times, but you haven't said anything that is vulnerable,
that's scary, that looks thirsty, it looks insecure. These are
(12:43):
all intimacy. So this is the issues right there are
there's so nuanced that people often get annoyed the way
I break it down. But it's not a quick fix.
It's like, you know, we live in a ozympic world.
People want ozempic for relationships. But the truth is it
secondly work because if I get even coming on this
(13:05):
interview with you, I'm giving you my glass heart for
the time we're here together.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
I trust that you're going.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
To say things that are comfortable. I'm trusting you, but
I also trust myself enough to say, hey, wow, after
that made me feel weird, that made me feel uncomfortable,
or I wish you would have said this with the
confidence that it's not going to alter our relationship. You're
not going to rap you. I'm finds anymore because even
if you did, I love myself more.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
And I feel like this little triangle is the big
overarching problem with everyone. It's like, if you're not feeling
good in your life and you're not on this inquiry
into your inner systemic change, you want other people to
make you feel better.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah. No, it's going to spill into everything. Spills into everything.
So what are some practical ways men can develop their
I guess you call it intimacy literacy per se. Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
The number one thing is you can do it in
private and in secret. But if you are a man
who's twenty or thirty or forty or fifty, since we're
asking about men, you probably figured out your intimacy thing
at a certain age, and in the same way that
style changes, maybe your food tastes change. Things change. Even
if you're in a relationship with one person for thirty
(14:17):
five years and you've always done it this way, you
have to change that. And it's okay if there's gonna
be feedback around that. That's uncomfortable. So when you're alone,
even do things like when I work with private clients,
and then especially I do little exercises like take your
arm and take your finger and just trace your arm
(14:38):
as slowly and gently as you can all the way
down to your elbow. And the softer and slower you
do it, you could turn your own self on, like
if you really touch yourself with that level, and it's
a curiosity. You just approached yourself with curiosity, But you
have to approach yourself like that, like you're your own greateness, lover,
every lover in your life, everybody that curiosity of who
(15:01):
are you today? It's like how you are with your kids,
like who they show for today you enjoy. But if
your partner, it's annoying because you're like figure that one
out already, and now that's more work. But if you
want anything to last and to stay juicy, it's that.
So that's the number one is to get stuff with
yourself and figure out what do you like now maybe
different than yesterday? Do you like things? Do you like
it faster? Do you like you know? I always joke
(15:23):
that my favorite is like fourth grade intimacy. I want
to like be at the couch or want you to
just like accident, touch my arm. I wanted to like
be like, let's prolong the beginning for as long as possible,
but why not? So do that with yourself. And the
second thing is, every time anyone gives you any feedback
that tings your heart and you want to defend as
(15:46):
soon as you the D word comes, stop pause and
just take a reflection for yourself, because sometimes feedback is
to help us grow. And the number one way that
we're good lovers of life is to always curious and
to be open to feedback. When more athletes, we get that.
When we're moms, we have no choice. Everyone wants to
give us feedback everywhere, all the time. But I find
(16:08):
that males had a harder time with feedback. It means
that you're wrong, or you're whack or whatever it means.
But it does it it means and especially a lot
of my older my guy friends now are dating younger women.
They're all about feedback. There's this great show you have
to watch while dying for sex. Have you seen this?
Speaker 1 (16:24):
No?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Oh, my goodness. First of all, get through the first
three episodes because I leave I lose everyone in the
first two episodes. Because there's a lot of yes, Okay, no, right,
but it's genius this show. It's a social commentary. It's
like really breaking these things down in a way that
people haven't been brave enough to in a long time.
And you know who the lead actresses, Heath Ledger, the
(16:49):
Joker number Heat died. Yeah, his wife at the time
was Michelle Williams and she hasn't really done a lot
since and she's the lead character in this and she's
just it's really it's great. But that's my two number
one takeaways, Like getslf with yourself. You can be secret,
but just feel yourself and figure out what you enjoy.
You to tell anybody, but just know and then be
curious about everyone you're untimate with.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
No you know, Grace, you gracefully touch on very sensitive
topics and I'm so appreciative of that, and that's why
I value having your voice here and I thank you
for the way you gracefully walked us through. You know,
this level of intimacy and even the intimacy that has
been at the forefront of the definition for me as
(17:35):
a man for years of you know, the one that
we all know, the physical piece, right, and just getting
in touch with yourself in a very deep way, but
more so surrounding it around how big intimacy is in
terms of the different aspects of our life. And again
I thank you for your graceful approach to how to
break that down and thank you for your voice.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Thank you
So today we're gonna do a dig into a topic
that many avoid for I think many reasons, but desperately neat,
which is intimacy, specifically what it means for me and
why so many struggle, I think, to truly connect even
in their closest relationships. And Grace Harry, the Joy strategist
(00:24):
and our very familiar guest of the show, hit me
with this topic and said we have to have this conversation. Asker,
this is a must. And when you first brought this up,
I was thinking to myself, that is a message being
sent that Grace has heard on the street that my
intimacy barometer was off. But then once I removed myself
from the thought, it was very clear that this wasn't
(00:48):
just about you know, just sexual romantic thing, but it
was emotional, spiritual, intellectual, and physical. So I'd love to
start from you. What's your definition of intimacy? Oooh?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
First of all, this is why I love talking to
We never just kind of grow at it linear.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
New.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
You know what's interesting is that if you asked me
this question almost every year, you would have gotten a
different answer. And I feel as I get to know
myself in truth and I actually allow intimacy to flourish
in my own heart, which to me is vulnerable, which
is being vulnerable enough with yourself to know that you
(01:34):
are your own best lover, your own juicy, yourself, and
therefore you feel safe enough to communicate from that foundation
with everybody that you have a relationship with in your life.
And what we have to understand is that we have
an intimate relationship with every single person in our life,
(01:55):
even if it's someone that you're sharing to commute with
for an hour. We're in these intimate basis. And yet
what we've been trained to do from society, you know,
well intended amateur adults and the concept of the world
based on what's in fashion, from how we socialize and communicate,
is to put our shells on and to just you know,
(02:17):
say the niceties and be kind even about our own selves.
How are you, I am fine?
Speaker 1 (02:23):
It's a train, it's such a program. It's a program,
the answer program, the answer.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
And so we immediately have this concept of how to
not be an intimacy and we wonder why this behavior
doesn't work when we get into personal intimacy, when we're
one on one with a partner, and so to me,
intimacy is feeling confident enough in myself, in my relationship
with myself to only be in relationship with others professionally,
(02:50):
personally in my own family, which is complicated. That speak
to how I want to be, how I want to
be intimate with those people in my life. There's a
book I've been reading called The Courage to Be Disliked,
and really the whole premise of the book is that
everything in life is about how we deal with our
interpersonal relationships. So that's what intimacy is to me now.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
So I think it's obvious then that men have definitely
been miseducated about intimacy by our culture, by our media
and traditions, It's pretty safe to say. And with that,
I think studies have also shown that emotional suppression often
begins in childhood for boys, And I'm thinking, is there
(03:34):
a long term link to intimacy issues here as well?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Oh, jackpot. And what's even more complicated. Just to add
to that very poignant summation of the root of it,
it also that you add what decade you're born into,
what culture you're born into, what's happening societally? Are we
in a time of war, are we at a time
of peace? All these things play a hand in how
(04:02):
we are supposed to show up. And what's very interesting
to me as a fifty five year old, I'm seeing
this huge divide which is even changing relationship relationships at
our age of how younger people are with each other
intimately and how people fifty and above are with each
other intimately. And what I'm noticing is that because there's
(04:22):
a lot less rules around how you show up in
whatever I know, we're not supposed to say the G
word that you want to identify as that you're taking
off a lot of the must bes and the must
jews and the must behaves that come with the way
you are as a man or a woman in the
way a lot of people are trained and raised traditionally.
(04:44):
And so this even this concept that I don't even
have to decide to such a finite, boring binary way
when I am, makes me more intimate with the world
at large. And that's intimate with how I represent myself
and how I speak about my look and my fashion,
how I speak to other people with the same concept
(05:07):
of gender. Like, all those things are a problem, but
at the root of all of it it's really getting
back to the recipe of your intimacy and getting deeper
than yourself to understand that and not feeling afraid enough
of what other people that those interpersonal concepts will feel
about it to let myself grow in that way, which
is intimacy.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, But so why is talking about intimacy still such
a taboo amongst men in many cultures? And talk about
the consequence of that silence because it doesn't help. It's
not helping.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Well, we're in a you're on a hind of percent, right,
it's not helping on many levels. And you know, again,
we live in this I don't know where I said again,
we live in a fake news So take everything with
a grain of salt or what it really hits you.
But there's all these reports now that we're in a
pandemic of a loneness, a loneliness pandemic, and a loneness pandemic.
And the real root of that issue, back to that book,
(06:04):
is we have been so trained to be cordial that
we're never honest with ourselves or each other. And so like,
for example, now we're all this, we would care like
we want kids to be honest. We don't we want
kids to know we protect them, but still we'll go
into a family event and be angry that they didn't
kiss uncle astor So there's a lot of confusing messages
(06:25):
that entangle our ego and our pride and how we
show up for others, even when it comes to our kids.
And we teach that message so young that how you
feel is less important and how someone else feels. And
so that's why it's so complicated, because it feels like
it feels almost like an affront to your family that
you're doing something morally wrong.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
When you are honest, deeply right, right right, and intimacy or.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
You can survive if we're deeply honest with ourselves and
each other.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah, when you started with the key words of being
vulnerable and being confident, which I think once you start
with that, you can push through the programming of the
cordial surfaceness, I think that you have been highlighted. It
is so we are surface, you know. It's so funny.
(07:18):
I try to exercise years ago with the you know,
the how you're doing, and everybody always says, oh, I'm good,
and I did one day I said, you know, somebody
said how you doing? I said, actually, I'm dying and
they're like, oh, that's great, and they just kept going
with the conversation. No, no, no, But because we're so
programmed to know or think of the response that's coming
and that I then would follow up with another surface
(07:40):
response of oh, that's good to hear that you're good.
And I was like, no, I actually said I'm dying,
and then like, you said you're dying, Yeah, but I'm not.
But I just said that because we go through this
how are you doing process and not really even are
thinking or wanting to really hear what it is. You
were just doing that as a form of going through
(08:00):
the exercise, right, So again it's it's it's eliminating the services.
I'm coming back to those two words that you were saying,
of courage and confidence that I think with men. I
also look at the impact of the label of provider
and protector identity that has been on men and showing
(08:21):
up in this very the relationship or the positioning that
we have in society. Is that another hindrance as well
for for men lacking a true understanding of intimacy by
being given the label of provider protector, so intimacy doesn't
come within that that that that that that kind, that
that forming of the formula.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yes, I mean you sis said so many things. You
said something in there. I can't remember what you've said,
but it was like exactly the reason is what you said.
But yes, one hundred percent. And and the thing is
is that there's so much fear around actually saying the
thing because we have to be comfortable enough to say
the true thing to our own selves. And so if
(09:07):
you have these labels and these concepts of what it
means to be a man or a provider or a woman,
and I can even give you examples of where I
both built concepts of love in my life and then
built a story around them and stuck to it even
though it was not a truth of my own heart.
But so I think it's men and women, but for
men especially it's confusing because it's in the nuance, in
(09:27):
the flexibility, it's in the curiosity, and the very concept
is especially I find forty and older, of being a
man and a provider is knowing and being confident and
knowing how to do the thing. And so the flexibility
and the curiosity and the openness that vulnerability and intimacy
relies on as a foundation goes away when your first
(09:48):
concept is like I know, you know what I'm saying,
and you're seeing such a huge divide. I know so
many people now our age who are choosing to lean
very long time relationships, like another one today he just
was revealed me. And it's so fascinating to watch who
people choose after that, right, like who people are looking
towards after And I'm noticing it's a much softer experience.
(10:12):
It's a much more simple experience. And I wonder if
we get to a point where we don't understand that
every version of intimacy, even with ourselves, requires that every
time we have a new experience, we have to integrate
that and present ourselves again as this new person. But
relationships are so hard that we don't even want to
rock the boat. So we find somebody new, we're not
(10:33):
going to tell them we now they're going to respond.
And so now you have a twenty year, ten year,
fifteen year relationship that you've grown apart in your not lies,
but in your just exhaustion to not be under exhaustion
of being misunderstood. So now you're leaning towards an experience
where you can be your full self and you can
(10:54):
be your full, softer self. And so I feel like
all of that goes back to the same things again
for men, because when you're highlighting that it's to be okay,
being an intimacy is being okay not knowing.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah, yeah, let's let's so let's let's go on the
flip side, right. And are there signs that a man
may be showing intimacy in a way that goes unnoticed
or unappreciated due to cultural expectations.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yes, and no. Because it's funny. I had a big
debate that turns almost into an argument with a friend
of ours a couple months ago about this exact thing,
and he used the same word appreciated. And he said
to me, you know, if women understood that men need
to be appreciated, then we would be better at being
the protector and the you know, and the provider. Right,
(11:50):
And I said, I hear that. I totally hear that.
Everybody wants to be appreciated. Everybody wants to be loved everyone,
everybody wants their love gesture.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Seeing.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
But if you have someone that loves you, love and
they love you, and they have any level of a
complaint or an issue or an interest to try something
or hear something. The problem that happens right here now
is there's an opportunity, but I find that this appreciation
thing that's going around is making people feel like more
(12:22):
up against the wall. Well they should just appreciate and
not in an opportunity to inquire and be confident enough
for themselves and say, hey, asther, I've gave you this
compliment four times, but you haven't said anything that is vulnerable,
that's scary, that looks thirsty, it looks insecure. These are
(12:43):
all intimacy. So this is the issues right there are
there's so nuanced that people often get annoyed the way
I break it down. But it's not a quick fix.
It's like, you know, we live in a ozympic world.
People want ozempic for relationships. But the truth is it
secondly work because if I get even coming on this
(13:05):
interview with you, I'm giving you my glass heart for
the time we're here together.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
I trust that you're going.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
To say things that are comfortable. I'm trusting you, but
I also trust myself enough to say, hey, wow, after
that made me feel weird, that made me feel uncomfortable,
or I wish you would have said this with the
confidence that it's not going to alter our relationship. You're
not going to rap you. I'm finds anymore because even
if you did, I love myself more.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
And I feel like this little triangle is the big
overarching problem with everyone. It's like, if you're not feeling
good in your life and you're not on this inquiry
into your inner systemic change, you want other people to
make you feel better.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah. No, it's going to spill into everything. Spills into everything.
So what are some practical ways men can develop their
I guess you call it intimacy literacy per se. Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
The number one thing is you can do it in
private and in secret. But if you are a man
who's twenty or thirty or forty or fifty, since we're
asking about men, you probably figured out your intimacy thing
at a certain age, and in the same way that
style changes, maybe your food tastes change. Things change. Even
if you're in a relationship with one person for thirty
(14:17):
five years and you've always done it this way, you
have to change that. And it's okay if there's gonna
be feedback around that. That's uncomfortable. So when you're alone,
even do things like when I work with private clients,
and then especially I do little exercises like take your
arm and take your finger and just trace your arm
(14:38):
as slowly and gently as you can all the way
down to your elbow. And the softer and slower you
do it, you could turn your own self on, like
if you really touch yourself with that level, and it's
a curiosity. You just approached yourself with curiosity, But you
have to approach yourself like that, like you're your own greateness, lover,
every lover in your life, everybody that curiosity of who
(15:01):
are you today? It's like how you are with your kids,
like who they show for today you enjoy. But if
your partner, it's annoying because you're like figure that one
out already, and now that's more work. But if you
want anything to last and to stay juicy, it's that.
So that's the number one is to get stuff with
yourself and figure out what do you like now maybe
different than yesterday? Do you like things? Do you like
it faster? Do you like you know? I always joke
(15:23):
that my favorite is like fourth grade intimacy. I want
to like be at the couch or want you to
just like accident, touch my arm. I wanted to like
be like, let's prolong the beginning for as long as possible,
but why not? So do that with yourself. And the
second thing is, every time anyone gives you any feedback
that tings your heart and you want to defend as
(15:46):
soon as you the D word comes, stop pause and
just take a reflection for yourself, because sometimes feedback is
to help us grow. And the number one way that
we're good lovers of life is to always curious and
to be open to feedback. When more athletes, we get that.
When we're moms, we have no choice. Everyone wants to
give us feedback everywhere, all the time. But I find
(16:08):
that males had a harder time with feedback. It means
that you're wrong, or you're whack or whatever it means.
But it does it it means and especially a lot
of my older my guy friends now are dating younger women.
They're all about feedback. There's this great show you have
to watch while dying for sex. Have you seen this?
Speaker 1 (16:24):
No?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Oh, my goodness. First of all, get through the first
three episodes because I leave I lose everyone in the
first two episodes. Because there's a lot of yes, Okay, no, right,
but it's genius this show. It's a social commentary. It's
like really breaking these things down in a way that
people haven't been brave enough to in a long time.
And you know who the lead actresses, Heath Ledger, the
(16:49):
Joker number Heat died. Yeah, his wife at the time
was Michelle Williams and she hasn't really done a lot
since and she's the lead character in this and she's
just it's really it's great. But that's my two number
one takeaways, Like getslf with yourself. You can be secret,
but just feel yourself and figure out what you enjoy.
You to tell anybody, but just know and then be
curious about everyone you're untimate with.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
No you know, Grace, you gracefully touch on very sensitive
topics and I'm so appreciative of that, and that's why
I value having your voice here and I thank you
for the way you gracefully walked us through. You know,
this level of intimacy and even the intimacy that has
been at the forefront of the definition for me as
(17:35):
a man for years of you know, the one that
we all know, the physical piece, right, and just getting
in touch with yourself in a very deep way, but
more so surrounding it around how big intimacy is in
terms of the different aspects of our life. And again
I thank you for your graceful approach to how to
break that down and thank you for your voice.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Thank you
Host
Astor Chamber
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