Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Well, we definitely live in a culture where we tell
cordial lies. I'll call it little half truths, kind of
meant to protect feelings or avoid conflict. But the reality
is those small lies often cause I think deeper harm
than truth ever could. Today, Grace Harry, the Joy Specialist
is back to discuss what it looked like if we
really built love and relationships and communities or truth instead
(00:25):
of comfort. And I love what we're titling this as
micro honesty because while it's so short, it's super impactful
and telling, and I want to know what it means
to you and the difference that kind of exists from
what many of us will call just be honest or blunt.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yes, first of all, I can't even say enough aster
how much I adore you and love these conversations, because
you know, right now a lot of people are like,
what can I do in the world, And what we're
doing is we're creating interpersonal dynamics of people so that
they can kind of forge where there wasn't a forging before.
So it's my honor and I think this micro honesty
(01:05):
is so important, especially right now, because none of us
are actually honest ever, and we're not honest with ourselves.
I'm going to give you two examples of something that
happened with me this week that was fascinating.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
I was talking to her.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I was a friend of mine and we were hanging
out at her house up state, and she got a
call or something happened, and then she instantly walked to
another room away from what we were about to do.
And then when I asked her about it, she was short.
And then when I asked her again, she had a tone.
And so I just create a whole story. I was like, Oh,
(01:38):
maybe I've been here too long, Maybe it's time for
me to go. Maybe she some like I started to
I could see myself creating and scripting an entire scenario
that's not there. So I stopped and I said to myself,
what's true? Right? And so as soon as I said
what's true and start of my own micro honesty practice
with myself instead of reacting in fear, because what's down
(01:59):
the line of that. I don't want to be rejected.
I don't want I don't want her to not to
want me to be there. I don' want not to
be wanted. And so I was brave enough and courageous
enough to say, hey, what's going on because I feel
this and that, Oh I just had this phone call
and this happened. But most of us don't do that,
especially not in any version of interpersonal relationship. So when
I'm talking about micro honesty, I'm talking about not just
(02:22):
this like, oh I'm I lie because you know, to
make people comfortable. I'm talking about getting a practice in
our life or in every second we create a pause
and we go inside and say what's true and learn
to have communications people that are honest because instead, like,
for example, I could have you didn't hear from me,
(02:44):
you could have decided something you could have been gotten
on the phone, on the on the podcast interview with
an attitude, and we just react to that at all times,
all day, every day, because the tone is even a story.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Someone's tone is my story.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
I was talking to a friend of mine earlier and
they said something and I said, yeah, I know, it's
not funny. They're like, well, not with you, and I
decided in my head that they meant that I'm weird.
And then I said, but now, micro honesty, I don't
understand what does that concept mean? Instead of clapping back
and being frustrated and the most important thing is right here.
(03:19):
In that second, we changed the whole relationship because what
would happen if I weren't in micro honesty is I
would decide what they meant, and then I would have
had out and then they would have had attitude back.
And now our relationship is off the track. It's no
longer the train on the track. And yet we don't
get honest enough because we're too afraid of the truth
of what the potential could be. So it's micro honesty
(03:42):
is getting so real with yourself and so comfortable with
yourself that you can practice micro honesty with everyone in
your life and never let the train go off the
track because you're so brave that you can say, Hey, Esther,
you know you asked Jaha and all these people to
be in your podcast, but you didn't ask me. Instead,
I'm gonna go talk to you whatever that culture raises up.
(04:03):
And this is literally we live our lives, and if.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
We do they listen to these examples. They are such
real examples that we all deal with because and all
I feel like all of them are part of the
what I call the program default responses. Right, I even
go to the simple one of when somebody says, hey,
how you doing it? You're like, oh, I'm good, when
really you're not. We're probably not, but we don't feel
(04:29):
like giving the truth because of what it might imply
or the discomfort it might cause in the conversation. But
if somebody's asking you how you doing, why wouldn't you
give them the real answer? And I feel like we're
so afraid of telling you said it the truth, even
in these small ways, especially to people, which is wild
that are closest to us. Right, So do we really
(04:51):
think though we're protecting people by doing this?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
No, that's why I said we have to do the
pause first, because what you said is exactly right. It's
that what we're afraid of. We don't want to be rejected.
We don't want to feel like we're not the priority.
All of these things that we lick our wounds around,
we're looking for you to fix. But if we really
understand a relationship is to intra dependent people coming fully
(05:16):
whole to theach conversation interaction, it's my responsibility. I remember
about four years ago what triggered was the thing. I
think I've talked about this a few times and then
people would stop and be like, don't.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Say that I'm triggered. You're triggering.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Is that you're welcome for me. It's not for me
to stop what I'm doing. Something triggered me, So it's
you to pause and say, you know, aster, can I
take two minutes because I'm feeling on uncomfortability and I
want to I want to take a part whether this
is a me, what part is me?
Speaker 3 (05:42):
What part is you? What part?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Like?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
I had a situation with a.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Friend a few months ago and invited me somewhere and
then acted insane, and before I went to talk to them,
I wanted to get into an empathetic state. I couldn't
understand what they did because I don't do those things,
but I tried to find where I do similar things
so I could drop my energy because I could get real.
You know, I could go there with you, but I
(06:05):
don't want because I want to be in the highest
state of people. I love, you know, for all of
our best intentions. So I took the time for myself.
And oh, okay, when I was I'm making this up now.
When I was sick and my grandfather used to say
that thing, it always made me feel like I was stupid.
So now what anyone says anything with that particular tone.
Oh okay, it's not that person at all. Oh, but
(06:26):
this part is okay, Now I got it. You know what, Aster,
I don't like that you wear that bracelet because it
reminds me of this situation whatever it is. But it's
it's honest, and it's giving you the thing that is
yours and it's holding what's mine and all that is
micro honesty because we don't live in a second to second,
(06:46):
day to day reality where we understand that there's a
cleanup on Asle five, that's ours that we have worth.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
No, I think you nailed. You know. One of the
things I wanted to come from this content of you know,
what are the things that we can do to kind
of build communities and cultures that are rooted in like
truth rather than comfort. And the biggest thing that you
are screaming, you are screaming in a figurative sense, which
is amazing, is it's inner work. It's it's it's our
(07:16):
inner work. And I think that is that's a huge
game changer because we're always looking at the outside of
what things can happen, what other people can do, but
really everybody has to do that interpersonal work and vetting,
and that prevents them from reacting and gets them to responding.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Exactly and that inner person I'm sorry, that excited. No, no, please, no,
that interpersonal work. It's like, I love that you say
everybody has to do it, but I'm saying we don't
have a choice, because what the reality is is that
if we don't, if we want any version of outer
systemic change, if we want anything out there to be different,
(07:57):
it has to start with us. And and if we
want to be model parents, lovers, partners, employees, bosses, entrepreneurs,
we have to set the tone that we want to
have in the world that we want to have to
set the tone of the relationship. And we have fifty
percent of that in every second. There's no what are
they doing to me? What am I doing to them?
(08:18):
It's how am I showing up for this? Like an athlete?
Imagine if you asked me to be on your team
and I just was like, you know what, I'm going
to go on an ice cream diet for a month.
I'm going to come out come. I'm not going to
be in shape, I'm not gonna be ready. You're going
to feel like I didn't take it seriously. But why
don't we think that our interpersonal relationships require that same
level of preparation with ourselves and the world that we're in.
(08:39):
We all acting, we've talked about this, that there's nothing
we can do. Yeah, we can get clean, and one
therapy session is not it, and I'm happy you had it.
But it says sluckily in alan On they have this thing. Oh,
I'm gonna mess this up. I love alan On. I
don't know if everyone knows what it is, but it's
the family and friends is the codependent version of people
who'd grown up around or have a partner that's and
(09:02):
it has deep addiction and they have a pause and
I mess it up. So I'm gonna find it for this.
But it's something like they made the word pause an acronym,
and it's something like I don't know, but the end
of it is just a pause until serenity enters, meaning
take a second until you feel serene enough and sovereign
(09:25):
enough that you can look at the situation from calmness.
Because from a meat place where we're in our baby
reactions and our trauma reactions, in the character we build
as a small child, we're reacting like a wild animal.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
We're just in reaction.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
And you know it takes tools like meditation and different
things to pause and say, how do I want to
be in relationship with asther? Okay, I want to be calm?
Okay the dot am I calm? So do I have
to get myself calm? And I'm saying these things to
say it that it's little tiny changes. It's not like
we have to be a different person. It's just taking
a breath, taking a secon in saying if there's two
(10:01):
people here, then there's two people that.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Need to look at the situation. Let me start with myself.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
But you know how hard, You know how hard that
is because it's so easy to point the finger elsewhere, right,
it's so so easy, and so to do that interpersonal
work first, I mean, that is a muscle. I love
that you gave the sports analogy because everything kind of
revolves around that, right, Like you have to commit so
that you can see the output and the others can
(10:28):
also see the commitment that then want to rally around that.
It's very much a domino effect, right, So when you
do that work, and it sounds like you have so
many examples of where in your life you realize you've
been living in cordialize, Right is there are were there
certain steps that you took or certain steps that you
take when you're identifying that, because I'm sure, Grace, this
(10:51):
is this is not an over for you, like you
haven't figured this out. While you're speaking so eloquently on
this and providing so much great insight, this this sounds
like a exercise that you're going to be doing for
the rest of your life, like trying to touch your
toes and make sure that you can do certain yoga poses. Right,
this is a continuation. So are there some basic principles
that are consistent that you have in your toolbox to share?
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
And I'm so glad you said that we are all
going to be learning every second about ourselves until we
are not breathing, and that we have to realize that
every time you have a new job, or you move somewhere,
or you have a new relationship, you're new You've had
new experiences and new things in your life that you
now have to integrate and incorporate into the current aster,
(11:35):
into the current Grace. So I am very much the
student forever in this. But what happened to me is
that I ended a third marriage, I'm in a third divorce,
realizing that, oh, I play spiritual on TV, but I
haven't actually gone deep enough to look at myself and
figure out what love is about for me.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
So it started with a rewrite.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
It started with this whole process sort of me realizing
that the way I was feeling in my life, and
you said something earlier about how hard it is, we
would look at themselves and be in truth. I come
from an industry where you could be This sounds so dramatic,
but I mean you could be depressed and miserable and broke,
and but you have to tend to looks like you're
(12:15):
ten tails down. You have to look like you've got
it all together and have it going and and.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Take it till you make it, which is not real.
You know.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
All of that is or a superficial facade that keeps
us further from connection than really being in connection. So
what I started to realize was I started with my
own kids and seeing how the things that I believed
before and my practices were landing on my now adult
children and not enjoying all the things that they inherited
that were definitely my old pattern, and then seeing their
(12:45):
honest reaction to that made me realize, Oh, and then
this person whose house I'm in is an author who's
amazing and the current book that they're writing is the
I don't know the title he ended on, but it's
about kind of like the Tow. Oh I think it
is called The Tow of Kobe Bryant how of Kobe?
And he went on this deep dive about Kobe's love
(13:05):
of like Walt Disney and all these different things, and
how he was realizing that everything's the same, Like, whatever
your practice is, whatever your life's goals are, there's really
one way to do it, and it starts with it.
We're you're saying ten toes down. So if there's things
in our life, like we know that we have to
practice and be great at and get mastery, then why
(13:27):
is an interpersonal relationships and learning your own heart the
number one? It's because we are lucking, not only to
ourselves but to the world. So getting honest and getting
raw and getting that like healthy is the new fresh.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
That's kind of how I see it.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Health healthy is the new fresh. And at the core
of it, love can't survive on half truth. I think
cordial lies may protect us in the moment, but over
time they erode trust, intimacy, and connection. And micro honesty
isn't about being harsh or on I don't think. It's
about choosing truth as a foundation for love. And when
(14:03):
we learn to speak with truth, I think we give
others the gift of knowing us fully and we open
up ourselves to be fully known. Right and love thrives
not in comfort, but encourage and the courage to live honestly,
and even in the small things. So graces, I thank you.
This one was another gem and so needed