Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
So we often confuse vulnerability with weakness, when in reality
it's profound strength. Vulnerability is the bridge I think to truth,
deeper connection, and true healing. Today we have Grace Harry,
the Joyce Strategist, to talk about why being open is
one of the most courageous things we can do. You know,
I feel like a good starting point to this conversation
(00:23):
is rooted in the notion of listening versus responding, and
I wonder why so many of us listen to reply
instead of listening to truly understand.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yes, thank you again, Esther. I love this too as
a segue from our last conversation. And I love that
you started with the listening because I also on the side.
I do a program called The Business of Us where
I work with couples, and I'm seeing a big pattern
recently with how women are like ah about males is
(00:53):
because there's a non listening thing that happens because men
need to be right, and there's this strange finger that happens.
Like I was working with a couple yesterday and no
matter what we were talking about around their vulnerability, he
just didn't want to be wrong, terrified that he was wrong,
and terrified that he was hurting her, and so all
of a sudden, listening goes away, and it's kind of
(01:14):
back to that micro honesty of everybody has to know
that vulnerability is a place to be, to be heard
and also to be safe, and it really relies on
us doing our inner work and having that pause, because
often people are in their head conducting a rebuttal or
figuring out how to defend themselves, and none of those
things actually are intimacy. None of those things are honest,
(01:38):
and none of those things create vulnerability. They make people
feel more unsafe because what you said lands on deaf
ears and no one is present with each other, and
so vulnerability has gotten a bad rap. I mean, this
is such a bloated one. We in this generation. Anyone
over thirty has been told what vulnerability is by the
(01:59):
way that they were told they have to be a
man or a woman or a partner. And there's a
lot of information that's told, especially to male identifying people,
that vulnerability is weakness. And I can see that a
lot of our male friends our age are struggling because
now all of a sudden, there's this real demand for
(02:20):
emotional connection, deep vulnerability, and yet no one has given
a ritual or write of passage or even a deep
explanation on how to do that and still maintain this
man thing that I'm supposed to do. And when I
talk to this with our friends, with our age group friends,
they always say, well, women need to cherish us so
that we protect them, and everyone rejects all sides of that.
(02:42):
And so vulnerability needs to be looked at in a
different way. And I feel the way that people can
access it the most is how you feel about your children.
If you think about how you feel about your children,
and when I say your children, it doesn't have to
be your biological children. If you have a god child,
a niece, a nephew, Anne Gabor's kids, you love someone
you mentor a furry love like anything that you don't
(03:05):
have expectations about the way they love you back. You
see ractly, that version of love is what everybody wants,
craves and deserves. But the stakes are higher when it's
an intimate love because people are afraid to be seen
in that way and they don't want to be vulnerable,
because vulnerable leads to disaster. People think that communication is confrontation,
(03:31):
So all the hitches and gatekeeping around vulnerability has to
be rewritten because in the nature of what they sound like, you're.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Wrong, you said, listen, So there's a number of things
here that you said. First off, it's the gender roles
that we've been programmed to think. It's the trauma that
many have gone through of being vulnerable at some point
and being told otherwise about the vulnerability what that looked
(03:59):
like on them. So it's so much that you have
to once again deprogram ourselves about in order to get
to a place of flipping vulnerability to this safe space
of what it is. And I think the other thing is,
you know, how do we balance being open without feeling
like now we're burdening others?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Though, the way I talk about it with clients is said,
there's two exercises. The first one is to literally roll
out the red carpet. I call it to the conversation.
So when I first started doing it, now I don't,
I'm just but when I first started, I was so
terrified because I built this persona pre verbal that I
knew what love was with my young parents, if I
(04:40):
took care of things and made stuff happen and not
necessarily what they meant to tap me, But that's what
I decided. So if I were not showing up perfectly
with no needs, all of a sudden, I felt like
I was a burden and therefore it wasn't gonna get
loved oversimplifying, So I would start with astor I'd like
to have a conversation with you, and I'm having a
very hard time having this conversation with you. I'm feeling
(05:03):
very scared this on. This is new for me. Could
you just listen and not say anything until the end,
or however the words work for you, But coming up
to it, honestly like I'm trying this new thing, I'm
a little whatever. That's a good way to start it.
A second thing is to with people. I say, Okay,
if you really have a hard time with this, do
(05:23):
a practice, even just once a week with your with
someone that you trust the most, a friend, and like
if you and I were doing it, I would say, okay,
for once a week, we're gonna have a talking stick,
or we're gonna have a thing where I'm gonna speak
and you can't do anything until I'm done. But mirror
what I said back, so that what you're doing is
instead of preparing your rebuttal you have to deeply listen
(05:46):
because you're gonna get quizzed in two seconds. And so
then you say, okay, asther what I think I heard
you say? And this is not This is a Mago practice.
It's like this old Harvill Hendrix and Helen Hunt wrote
this book years ago called Getting lo We Deserve and
they teach a Mango work, which is mirror mirror conversations.
So then they'll say, you know, I asked her, I
(06:06):
understand that you said you want me to talk about
this in three parts. And then when you finish, you
say is that correct? And then I can say you
can say yes, thank you or no, actually, and I
got to mirror again. And that The gritty thing about
this is it makes you listen. And another thing I
do because I just get excited and I want to interrupt,
(06:27):
but I know that interrupt was disrespectful. So now what
I do is instead of hinging on the first word
and being like, oh the answer, I listen and don't
form any opinions and listen to the person like a story.
And then the reason that gets scary is because we
don't want to seem not smart. We think we look stupid.
If we don't have the genius answer, but I don't care.
I know I'm smart and I understand that I'm just
(06:49):
a human learning where the person says. So I just
wait until the person all the way finish is talking,
even if my only response is wow, that's beautiful, I
heard you. So it's it's literally changing. It's just these
two exercises. They're so simple, coming up to the person
and really saying I'm having a hard time, but I'm
really trying to, you know, especially with male people, you know,
the women, I want to be cherished. I want to
(07:10):
be heard, but they don't know how to do that,
and then we're so frustrated. And I'd always try to
explain to women men have transition time, like there's all
these things that are different and our genders for all
kinds of scientific reasons. So let them so come and say,
I understand that you want to be heard more deeply
and you want to be cherished. I'm trying to toe
dip in there. I know you want me to double
(07:30):
dutch in, but I'm not ready. I'm going to put
my little toe and see if the pool is old
or warm. And this is how I'm going to start,
so you're saying, I hear you, I'm doing what you want,
but this is how my process is going to be.
And the second part is either you need a talking
stick or you just practice like not forming any opinions
until they're finished talking and then just respond. So those
(07:52):
are the two baby ways. I feel like you could
start to practice this in your life and it's actually
much more relaxing.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeah, not baby at all. I think these are such great,
you know, daily habits. I think that you just shared
to help with this, and I'm so glad you did,
because I don't think vulnerability isn't about over sharing or
exposing yourself recklessly. I think it's about choosing honesty over performance,
(08:20):
and presence over you know, pretense, and connection over control. Right,
So every time we choose transparency, I think we give
others permission to do the same. And that's not a weakness.
I really call that leadership, which I look at you
as and your coaching as. And this is so so
helpful and I can't thank you enough once again for
even delivering. They're small, but there's so huge habits and
(08:44):
principles and examples