October 21, 2025 • 54 mins
ANTM was never really about creating top models. It was a reality TV disguised as a modeling competition, and it showed. We break down how photo shoots were designed to create unforgettable moments and reactions on screen and how casting prioritized personalities over potential. We also explore why the winners rarely became working models. From laughable challenges to unusable portfolios, this episode exposes the truth: The show cared more about TV drama than the contestant’s modeling careers.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Is cycle eighteen, the British Invasion season of America's Next
Top Model.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
It's raining so hard, it's really windy, it's so so.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
High up like we're on the deck of the Macaw Tower,
eleven hundred foot building. A and TM judge Ja Manguel
just told the remaining five models of the season.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
The Macaw Tower is the home of the tallest bungee
jump in the.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
World, and that the top deck of this building, way
out on the ledge, seven hundred and sixty feet up
is the location for today's photo shoot.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
We turn up at this bloody tower and it is
raining hard, maybe even haling, who knows it.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Was definitely hailing. That's Sophie Sumner, who you heard in
the tape psyching herself up to go out on that leg,
knowing full well that one slippery wrong step combined with
a harness malfunction could send her flying into the pavement
seven hundred and fifty feet below. You met Sophie a
few episodes ago. She's the British model who said signing
(01:15):
the A and TM contract basically meant the show owned you.
On her season, she walked a light pink bob Very
twenty twelve it was a season she went on to win,
but on this day she was ready to walk off
set and just go home.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
We're in a brand new continent that most of us
have never been to, and we go out on that
stupid ledge or something.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
I am terrified of.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Height Cycle eighteen pit models from the UK against models
from the US, and Sophie wasn't new to this. She'd
competed on Britain's Next Top Model before A and TM,
but the photoshoot she did on that show looked like
school picture Dad compared to this drake in simple, long
black dresses with exaggerated shoulder pads, hairstyles that were straight
(02:01):
out of the Capitol beauty salon. On Honger Games, the
models were proposed to represent the strength and power of Macau,
but at this moment they were looking anything but strong.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
I stepped out there and I have never to this
day been that terrified on the side of a building,
like slipping all over the place with rain coming down
god knows how high up.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Up to this point, Sophie had pretty much trusted the production. Sure,
some of the photoshoots were over the top, but she
didn't think the show would ever put her in harm's
way now standing on that slippery seven hundred foot ledge,
she wasn't so sure. According to Sophie, under normal circumstances,
(02:45):
in these weather conditions, the skywalk they were posing on
would be closed to the public.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
I don't know if it's before the photo shoot or after,
but it definitely had been closed to the public. It
was definitely unsafe. It was not Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Ken Lock was there.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
They were like, you know, we should really.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Close it type thing, and I remember him or somehow
I overheard something that he was like, no, we're doing
this no matter what.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
And so I also went out there.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
With the knowledge that this wasn't safe and we shouldn't
be out there now.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I have to say this legally, I can't confirm if
ken Mok said that or not, but it is what
Sophie remembers. Okay, if you don't hear that, we turn around.
Imagine being out on a ledge. You're terrified of heights.
You think the situation isn't safe, and in your mind,
the only thing keeping you from falling to your imminent
(03:42):
death is the harness you're clinging to. And then you
hear the photographer tell you to hold a pose.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Sorry, hon I'm sorry.
Speaker 6 (03:55):
I'll get the harness at away from my body if
you can stop.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Holding the harness, you mean, the thing keeping her from
falling off this slippery seven hundred and sixty foot ledge.
Speaker 7 (04:05):
I was just shaking, crying.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
It's so awful, right because you actually have no choice.
You're going home because you didn't see the photo shoot.
Speaker 7 (04:14):
I feel like we've got good shot.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Sophie didn't know it then, but the shaking, the crying,
the pure of terror and panic in her eyes was
all by design. You see heights. What's her biggest fear?
Speaker 8 (04:28):
If someone had a particular fear, we would find out
in the costings.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
That's Andrew Patterson, the creative producer for A and TM
cycles fifteen through twenty. He and his team came up
with every photoshoot the models did, including this one. He
was the reason they were up there struggling to look
strong and beautiful while being pelted with freezing rain. Andrew
had designed this photo shoot to get this very reaction
(04:53):
out of the models.
Speaker 8 (04:54):
You go through the casting falls and you'd be like, okay,
well this one's scared of heights, so maybe this cycle
we should do a photoshoot.
Speaker 7 (05:01):
Which is one hundred stories in the air.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
He was there that day to see how his little
experiment unfolded.
Speaker 7 (05:08):
It is pissing down with rain. It is so cold
out there.
Speaker 8 (05:11):
I think there might have been slight icicles, like literally,
like the girls are getting pelted by ice and they're
in tears and they're crying, and you know, girls are
going out there and they're slipping and they're falling.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yeah, if the models wanted to blame anyone other than
themselves were signing up for this. Andrew was the guy.
But that didn't mean he didn't have a heart.
Speaker 8 (05:33):
I'm a nice guy, and you know, I'm trying to, like,
you know, warm them up, and I'm like, you know,
consoling them, like, oh sweetheart, it's okay, you can do this.
Speaker 7 (05:40):
Don't worry, don't worry, don't worry.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
But A and TM's executive producer Ken Mark wasn't having it.
Speaker 8 (05:46):
And I get a tap in the back of my
shoulder from Ken Mock say, Andrews, stop it, stop it.
We want to see these girls cry. This is going
to make great television. Stop consoling them. Play it out,
let them be as it is.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Maybe at a shoot in the real world it would
be kind even expected for a creative producer to comfort
the scared talent. But this wasn't the real world. This
was reality TV. You want to be on some, you
want to beyond some. Welcome to the Curse of America's
(06:28):
Next Top Model. I'm Bridget Armstrong. Even though reality TV
is supposed to be real, we all know, at least
these days, it's really about telling a story and a
and TM was no exception. The show presented itself as
(06:49):
a look behind the curtain, a window into what it
took to be a high fashion model. But America's Next
Top Model was always a reality TV show first and
a modeling competition second. It prioritized drama and good characters
over the best models, and featured unrealistic and even dangerous
photoshoots that no model would ever do in the real industry,
(07:12):
like dangling Sophie off the side of a seven hundred
foot building just so we could see her freak out.
They did that to make great reality TV. So on
this episode, we're going to take a look at how
the show achieved that and what the cost was to
the models. By the time we get to the macle
(07:32):
Tower photoshoot on cycle eighteen A and TM had already
built a reputation for wacky and extreme photoshoots, challenges and runways.
These are the stunts that made A and TM iconic,
and each season they had to top the last. There
are so many outrageous photoshoots in A and TM history
that I've decided to make them into a little game.
(07:54):
I'm calling it, Did that really happened? My team and
I came up with the most ridiculous fictional runways and
photo shoots we could think of. I want you to
guess which are the ones we made up in which
actually happened on A and TM. Consider it a test
of your top model knowledge. Okay, let's start. Is it
(08:18):
A the models pose inside a meat locker, lying on
an ice block with nothing but a bikinion or B
the models are submerged in a freezing cold pool for
over forty five minutes, wearing nothing but a thin gown.
If you guess B, you are correct. On cycle seven,
(08:41):
the models have to pose in water so cold one
of the contestants carry the English almost got hypothermia. Carried
You're from Cargo.
Speaker 9 (08:50):
Come on, this is real, real modeling, guys being cold as.
Speaker 10 (08:55):
There's a point where my body just literally takes over,
Like I feel like my skin and everything that's just.
Speaker 8 (09:01):
Like pins and needles go.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
When the camera got on me, you.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Know, I try to just shake those shivers away and
not let her show my face.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
She was so cold knit, she was kind of convulsive.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
As a model, you need to tell people when you've
passed your limit.
Speaker 7 (09:16):
It wasn't just that she was cold. It wasn't just
that her teeth were chattering.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
She had reached the moment of hypothermia.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yep, you heard that right after Tyra encouraged Carrie D
to stick it out because she's some fargo. Jay Manuel
blamed Carrie D for not saying she was literally freezing sooner. Okay,
that one was a little too easy. Let's try another one,
which is a real A and TM photoshoot. Is it
A the models are harnessed to the wing of a
(09:45):
low flying plane and full lamb with aviator jackets and
six inch chos. Or B the models have to strut
down a moving conveyor belt in front of an audience
while wearing full length gowns and six inch chos. The
answer is B. On cycle fifteen, the models had to
walk a conveyor belt in the second Street tunnel in
(10:05):
La I've never felt more embarrassed at one.
Speaker 11 (10:08):
Time in my life.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I'd rather have natural labor.
Speaker 6 (10:11):
Again than do this.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I didn't come in here having a very good walk
in the first place, and I guess I started to
overthink it when.
Speaker 12 (10:27):
The conveyor belt when you go backwards, kind of bumpy,
so like I got on there and my shoes just
filled right off. But I still was smiling though.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, I'm still feared. I'm still feared.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
When you heard the audience go whoa. That was their
reaction to one of the models actually tripping and falling
off the runway. Okay, let's change the rules a little
bit and play two truths and a lie. I'll give
you three scenarios, two of which actually happened on A
and T M. The other was made up. Option A.
(11:02):
The models do a photo shoot in Canada drenched in
maple syrup while wearing maple league. B. The models do
a photo shoot in Japan in a tank of coyfish
while wearing Ramen noodles or C. The models do a
photoshoot in Greece posing on top of a giant bowl
of Greek salad. Wearing nothing but a bikini. Now, remember
(11:24):
two of these really happened on A and TM. If
you guessed A and C, you are correct. Andrew told
me the maple syrup photoshoot was a last minute idea.
The girls were supposed to do a photo shoot for
former A and TM judge and supermodel Twiggy's clothing brand.
(11:45):
At the time, Twiggy was living in Canada, but when
she canceled the day before the shoot, Andrew and his
team had to come up with something quick.
Speaker 8 (11:55):
We started at six am, like, we're going to have
the girls in hair and make up. Okay, what's this
country famous for?
Speaker 7 (12:02):
Maple syrup?
Speaker 8 (12:04):
Like okay, all right, all right, okay, maple leaves and
maple syrup, and so we were like okay. So literally
from then we went outside and we grabbed all these
maple leaves and we had all these bikinis and I
started sewing maple leaves onto bikinis.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
And the Greek salad photo she well, that was Tyra's idea.
Speaker 7 (12:25):
They're like, we're going to Greece next cycle.
Speaker 8 (12:27):
I was like, okay, that's pretty cool, and so we
contacted the tourism bureau and Greece and you know, typically
that's what would happen, is that one of the executives
would do deals with the tourism bureau of each country
or an airline to bring us all out there.
Speaker 7 (12:40):
In a meeting with Tyra, I'm like, what do you
think of Greece?
Speaker 8 (12:43):
Tira, tell me the first thing that comes to your mind,
and she goes the Greek salad. And I was like,
oh my god, you don't think Greek mythology, you don't
think Medusa, you don't think all of these other beautiful things.
You think of a Greek salad. And she goes, yep,
I want to throw the girls into a ball of
green salad.
Speaker 7 (13:00):
And Drew I was like, okay, well, let me let
me talk to the group cheers and bure just see
if fucking win them over with the grid r D.
Speaker 8 (13:10):
But it was it was very top model, you know
what I mean, to tow the girls into a ball
of Greek salad?
Speaker 7 (13:15):
Which was that first photo shoot in Creek?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Okay, last question for extra credit, choose all that apply.
Which of these runways did a and TM feature that
actually caused the models bodily harm? Is it a a
floating runway where the models had to walk a rickety
runway that was floating in a pool while wearing six
inch heels. Is it B A pendulum runway where the
(13:43):
models had to walk a runway while dodging a pendulum
swinging back and forth. Is it C a runway where
the models were placed inside a plastic bubble and told
to walk a twelve inch wide runway that was floating
over water. Or is it D a runway where the
contestants had to walk down the side of a building
in a harness that, my friends, was a trick question.
(14:11):
The answer is all for congratulations to our winners. As
a prize, you get to continue listening to this episode,
and you know what, I'm such a benevolent host. Some
of the losers and these runways didn't just happen to
be dangerous. Freelance reporter Kate Taylor wrote an excellent piece
(14:32):
all about Top Model for Business Insider. She's a consulting
producer for this podcast. She told me she talked to
an A and TM crew member who told her the
floating runway was rickety on purpose.
Speaker 13 (14:46):
I spoke with a producer actually who for the floating runways,
said that they had people go in and loosen the
runway even more to make it less safe because they're like, well,
it's going to be more interesting if someone falls. So
that was something that throughout the process seemed to be
you want to make good television, and at times the
good television came at the expense of the well being
(15:10):
of contestants.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Eugena Washington, who competed on that season cycle seven, was
one of the ones who fell on the runway. As
soon as I stepped on it with one foot, I split.
Speaker 14 (15:23):
I kept going after I fell off, I just kept going.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
I'm freaking leading. Eugena still has the scar from that
to this day. Here she is talking with consulting producer
Oliver Twigs on his YouTube channel.
Speaker 6 (15:38):
I don't know if you can see this scar, but
this scar right.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
This this Eugena sit up to show Oliver a nasty
scar on her knee.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
Yes, with my real life body.
Speaker 14 (15:54):
Okay, okay, because you're on this runway that's floating. And
so they put on two corsets, pulled them as tight
as they could possibly pull them, so I could not breathe,
and then I had six inch stiletto hills, like needle
(16:16):
stiletto hills. So I'm walking on my fucking tippy toes
and then the shoes are a size too big and
they said go out there.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
And poles it bit you better smiles in front of.
Speaker 14 (16:29):
All these lights in the dark, under these conditions. So
as a human being, you're like this, I can die
because first I can't breathe, I can't walk. And then
the runways going like this on top of water, and
they're talking about get to the end and take a
good picture, and.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
The pendulum runway A ANDTM found mixer Hojte Torres was
there that day and he remembers how it all went.
Speaker 10 (16:52):
Down that pendulum runway. The entire crew was on pins
and needles waiting for some you know, if we didn't
want somebody to get knocked off, but we're like it
was funny, but not funny. And then the one girl
who got hit. I'm trying to remember who that was. Uh,
(17:12):
I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Her name was Alexandra.
Speaker 10 (17:15):
Oh yeah, she was so nice, but yeah, man, she
got hit. And it like you could just play like
that cartoon sound or somebody sort of like about to
teeter off the side and fall off, and you could
just hear like the bongo sound or whatever. The whoa whoa,
whoa whoa, and off she went and crashed into some
lights and she cut up her knee and we're like.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Oh God, No, all of this, all of these wild
photoshoots and challenges happened before the cycle eighteen Makaal Tower
photoshoot you heard at the top of this episode, and
by the time that aired, A and TM was past
its heyday and struggling to draw an audience as large
as previous seasons. A modeling competition where ten to fourteen
(17:58):
girls battle it out see who's the best was no
longer cutting it. Creative producer Andrew Patterson Again.
Speaker 8 (18:04):
Tyra was very adamant that after cycle thirteen she never
wanted to do a normal top model again, so she
started with short girls and then she went into high
fashion and then it progressed from there.
Speaker 7 (18:18):
So when I started, there was always a theme.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
There was the All Star season, the college season, the
British Invasion, and the seasons where they included guys. But
it wasn't just the season themes that had to up
the ante. It was the challenges, the photo shoots, and
the runways themselves, which was not an easy task. By
the time Andrew started in twenty fifteen.
Speaker 7 (18:38):
We were just trying to do things that hadn't been
done before.
Speaker 8 (18:41):
Especially when I joined, they had already done two hundred
and fifty photo shoots on camera before, so trying to
come up with creative.
Speaker 7 (18:47):
That they had never been seen was not easy.
Speaker 8 (18:50):
I'd sit there and I'd pitch things to Tyre and
she'd be like, oh no, honey, we did that cycle two,
episode eight.
Speaker 7 (18:54):
I was like, oh damn it, okay, And.
Speaker 8 (18:56):
For each photo shoot I had to come up with
fifteen different options. Look at that, that's a one hundred
to one hundred and eighty different options per cycle.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
So would you say that you guys were sort of
encouraged to do these things that could cross some that
will say accident, so miss app some far off some
trip ups. Were you encouraged to do that?
Speaker 7 (19:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (19:16):
We were encouraged to make things spicy, make things like
they'd never been seen before.
Speaker 7 (19:24):
We thought it made good TV.
Speaker 8 (19:25):
And a lot of this came down to wanting the
audience to go, wow, did you see this? Like, oh
my god, can you believe that they did this? Can
you believe that they did that? So we had to
come up with these elements of fear or these different
elements to see if the girls could have it or
be able to do the photo shoot, or go underwater
and hold their breath and be able to strike a pose,
(19:45):
or you know, can they smise while they have a
silk worm on them? Or are they able to hold
it together when they're you know, two hundred stories in
the air being thrown off the side of the building
in pelting rain.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Working models sometimes have to pose in a scary situation
or with a wild animal. Cindy Crawford posed nude with
a Boa constrictor in the nineties. One time Kate Upton
posed in a bikini in Antarctica while standing on an iceberg.
But those kinds of photoshoots are rare. Andrew work as
a fashion photographer in the real world before joining A
(20:19):
and TM. He told me professional photoshoots are almost always
the opposite of what we thowt on top model.
Speaker 8 (20:27):
Coming from the real world of advertising. I've shot campaigns
for Louis Vuitton, I've shot campaigns for Chanel.
Speaker 7 (20:33):
Hugo Boss.
Speaker 8 (20:35):
That's not how we do it. Top model is not
how we do it in the real world. Model's pictures
are very intimate. It's between them and the photographer. It's
when you have a connection with a photographer and you
really connect with them that you actually get beautiful images,
and not a lot of that goes on on Top Model.
There's intimate moments where you get you know, these beautiful
(20:56):
you know, big eyes and you get your reactions. Those
moments work, you know, on America's Next Top Model because
they just changed the channel and it'd be very boring,
you know, crazy wacky, quirky, unusual photoshoots. Was to keep
the audience, and that was to keep ratings. That was
to keep you know, people wanting to watch the next
(21:17):
episode or you know, tuning in to the next cycle.
I mean a lot of this stuff might not be realistic,
but it certainly added to the story in which we
were creating, and it added to the competitive element of
a competition reality show.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
On cycle one, they did do semi realistic photoshoots and
the result most bands consider Cycle two to be the
real start of America's Next Top Model. I don't think
A and TM would have lasted very long if it
would have remained realistic. A TM took the premise of
(21:51):
modeling and made it entertaining, and there's nothing wrong about that.
Project Runway takes the art of designing clothes and makes
it competitive by presents themed and timed challenges. The issue
with A and TM is that models use their faces
and bodies to convey their talent, and that means putting
their bodies on the line, which seems even more insidious
(22:13):
when you consider they signed a contract that says if
they get hurt while carrying out these production fever dreams,
A ANDTM wouldn't owe them anything, not even medical care
once they left the show if they got a long
term injury. Many of the models signed up to do
these outrageous things because they thought it would help them
(22:34):
in the real modeling world, but as we've said over
and over, for most of them, it didn't. It actually
made them a joke in the fashion industry. After the
break will take a look at the casting process and
how from the very beginning A ANDTM was thinking about
the story, not the best models. There's a part for
(23:00):
creating the characters and personalities we love and hate on
reality TV. It starts in.
Speaker 11 (23:06):
Casting the unscripted world. You're dealing with everyday people, and
they are not actors.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
That's Raphael Doorball. He was a casting producer for America's
Next Top Model cycles twenty one through twenty four. Those
were the seasons that included guys and girls. Thousands of
wanna be contestants sent in audition tapes and showed up
to castings. Raphael was a part of the team who
looked for people who would pop on screen.
Speaker 11 (23:32):
Some people are already amplified their pre turned. They come
in the door swinging, you know, and we're just steering them.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Like Brittany Brower from Cycle four. Brittany looked a lot
like a young Janis Dickinson, something that probably made her
stand out. Here's what she said happened during her casting process.
Speaker 15 (23:49):
I got called in a room probably with maybe like
twenty to thirty other women. They had to stand in
a big circle and go around the rim and say
who we were and a little bit about ourselves. And
everyone was just kind of going around the circle and
you know, like, Hi, I'm.
Speaker 7 (24:05):
Diana, I'm from you know, the North Carolina.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I like pink flowers.
Speaker 15 (24:10):
And then she gets around to me and I'm like, Hello,
I'm Riddy Alena Brower, I'm from Tallahassee.
Speaker 7 (24:16):
Florida.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
I'm twenty two.
Speaker 15 (24:17):
Years old, go seminoles and I am so happy to
be here.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Michelle like stopped everybody. Michelle mop the head casting director.
Speaker 15 (24:28):
And I had a green Abercromi skirt on, and she goes,
you see green skirt here, you see green skirts?
Speaker 5 (24:34):
Call me green skirt. She's like, you guys, see green
skirt here.
Speaker 15 (24:37):
She's like, that's the kind of energy we need from
all of you.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
But not everyone comes in pre turned like Brittany. It
was rare fail's job as a casting producer to identify
that spark in a contestant.
Speaker 11 (24:50):
We are taking their personality and basically amplifying it.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Sometimes potential contestants need the casting producers to put that
in their back.
Speaker 11 (25:01):
So we're in the semifinal stage and we're figuring out, okay,
who's going to make casting. This one guy he came
out to where the producers were and he said, I
can't do this. I can't do this, and he's freaking out.
I was like, what's the matter, what's it going on?
He's like, I can't say this one and this one's
a bitch and she just wants phony and blah blah
blah and he had so much to say.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
The guy wanted out. He didn't think he could handle
all the different personalities. But instead of seeing a quitter,
Raphael saw the makings of great TV.
Speaker 11 (25:30):
I was like, oh, god, you have strong feelings. Okay,
so oh right, well why are you telling me? And
he's like, I have stuff events I can't I don't
even want to be out there with them. I don't
want to, and he's getting all agitated, and I was like, well,
I don't think you should be telling me this. Why
don't you go say that to their face. It seems
like you, you know, you got a lot to tell them,
so tell them.
Speaker 6 (25:49):
So he did.
Speaker 11 (25:52):
He went out there and he had stuff to say,
and he made the cast. So casting producers, we literally
are creating people.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Sharon Brown was still in high school when she was
on cycle eleven of Top Model, and she looked like
it on our season. She had this big, infectious smile
that betrayed her age. She turned eighteen a month before
she auditioned. She told me she was one of the
ones who needed guidance, and that guidance started during the
psyche bow.
Speaker 6 (26:23):
The psychologists proceders so basically, give us our character which
I didn't know at the time, but he started it
off by saying like, wow, looked over all of your stuff,
and I can see that you're a very confident person.
Now looking back, I was like, oh, he was giving
me my character or like what they wanted to.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
Portraye we had.
Speaker 6 (26:43):
And he also went with like, but I can see
you're also very reserved in this situation. You want to
make sure that you lean more to that confidence side,
that you lead more into this. I thought that, like, oh, well,
he's telling me about myself and affirming who I am
and how how kind. But yeah, no, and he was
giving me my carere And then that was followed up
by the producer who then reiterated that it was like,
(27:05):
I know you like to read, and I know you're
an introvert, but in this situation we needed to be very,
very extroverted.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Sharan told me she struggled with self esteem when she
was younger. Her mom instilled a sense of confidence in her,
taught her how to say positive affirmations. Maybe that's what
producers picked up on, a sense of outward confidence that
was still developing on the inside. Rafael told me it
was their job to really get to know potential castmates
(27:35):
beyond what they presented on the surface.
Speaker 11 (27:38):
You can tell they've never had a day of therapy
in their life because they want to suddenly tell me everything.
We learn a lot about people in a very short
period of time.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
It was a producer's job to make contestants feel comfortable
enough to talk openly.
Speaker 11 (27:57):
You're building a relationship or report with these people. So yeah,
a big part of being a casting producer is building
trusts for sure.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Sharan says she was an open book during her casting process.
Once the producers had an idea of who she was,
or at least who they wanted her to be on
the show, they started coaching her on what to do
and say. They came up with something that made her
stand out in her audition where she met Tyra and
the Jays.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
Our first meeting with the judges, they were asked me, okay,
so what are you gonna do? And I was like,
just gonna go and leave me and say you know,
and they're like, no, you got to come up with something.
So I was like, okay. We was like, we wanted
this to be memorable. So that's where the whole like
Lucky Abduer came from because that was kind of like
we talked about that together.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
The competition has started and I'm ready for it.
Speaker 12 (28:47):
And when the competition is on, I got my game
face on and I'm like, Hella, confidence.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Are you convinced you've already won?
Speaker 6 (28:52):
I know it, Tira, Oh, tell me why?
Speaker 12 (28:55):
Because I am America's next time model.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
You guys just don't know it yet. And what is that?
Speaker 16 (28:59):
An?
Speaker 9 (29:00):
Your hand?
Speaker 12 (29:03):
Want them everything we've done so far, I've had them.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I always look, she says. When producers were going over
her semi finals plan with her, she mentioned that she
had a pair of underwear that said America's next top
Model across the butt. The producers loved them and told
her she should use that in front of the judging panel,
and the little sun worked. Sharon made it into the house,
but once she was in the house, producers told her
(29:30):
she still needed to present her confident facade.
Speaker 6 (29:33):
The camera makes you look smaller, so we need you
to be figger with all of your actions. If there's
anything going on, make sure you're the first one there.
Tyra loved your like. They would keep telling me that
Tyra loves your confidence. Tyra loves loves and so just
camping it up, and they did it in a way
where you felt like you were getting a private meeting
with producers. At the time, realizing that I was being
(29:56):
pushed or manipulated or coach fit away.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
I just that it was like a big sister to put.
Speaker 6 (30:02):
You on a game of how to you know, how
to show up.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Creating characters in reality TV isn't specific to A and TM.
Audiences need characters to know who to identify with, who
to root for, and who to root agains. Often the
characters play into archetypes or stereotypes we already know that
makes them memorable. Professor Amanda Kline teaches about reality television
at East Carolina University. She says, creating character is what
(30:29):
makes the story stick. This is sort of a fundamental
human need.
Speaker 16 (30:35):
The way people make sense of the world is through categories,
putting things into places that help them make sense. Why
it's important on reality TV is they need to establish
character and story right away, and so to do that,
they need people to appear as certain character types.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
You've heard me refer to former contestants. Is the girl
next door, the wild child, or the villain? This association
on A and TM was by design. Here's a and
TM casting producer Raphael Dervalligan.
Speaker 11 (31:13):
This's a certain formula that you that's a comfort, that's
the reason why you tune in and get excited to watch.
And I think the most exciting thing about Top Model
was you always obviously had a different cast that was
very different from the last, but you also kind of
always got that same formula as well. So you know,
you always got like the country girl guy, you know,
(31:34):
who's in the middle of nowhere, who has no modeling
experience whatsoever. Then you got like the hot jock that
was thrown in there, who's super confident and whatever. And
maybe the beauty queen. You know, you got the girl
who's like did every pageant and you fil them all
together and like' like, how is this going to work?
You know, that's what makes it interesting to watch and fun,
(31:56):
and that's what we looked for.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Remember Brittany from cycle four, the one Michelle Mott called
green Skirt Well on her season, she was loud, she
liked to have fun, and she liked to drink, sometimes
to the detriment of her competition performance. There was a
challenge where the models had to interact with representatives from
Cover Girl at a party. In the episode, Britney seemed
more interested in getting drunk than actually impressing the people
(32:20):
from CoverGirl, or at least that's how the producers made
it look. They were developing a character. Britney was the
party girl. There's people from magazines.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I want to try one of those things.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
L Magazines comes holiday, so that's a drink I had.
Then there was another time when the models went out
and Brittany got wasted. She was dancing on the table.
But Brittany wasn't the only one who got drunk that day.
UV Gomez told me she did too.
Speaker 17 (32:51):
And we were all at this cute little restaurant and
I drank too much and didn't eat at all, and I.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Was like, ooh, I'm not feeling good.
Speaker 17 (33:04):
And I think the producer saw that, and they pulled
me to the side and they like snuck me out
because they already had the drunk girl. There couldn't be two,
so they completely edited all of that out. I even
think I might have gotten sick, but they were like
protecting me, like guarded the bathroom, told me to turn
(33:27):
my mic off. They just didn't want to film any
of that. Because they had Brittany. Producers liked their characters
to be neat. It helps the audience follow the storyline.
We weren't watching A and TM because we wanted to
see complicated characters wrestling with their inner natures. If we
wanted that, we could have turned to HBO.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I asked Britney if that drunk party girl character followed
her after the show, if it hurt her chances in
the industry, and she said it didn't really affect her.
But Sharon wasn't so lucky. In addition to needing country girls,
jocks and party girls, A and TM needed villains, the
characters we laugh at, not with the ones we love
(34:13):
to hate. Sharan had been told to play up her confidence,
but on screen it came across as annoying. Remember I
told you Sharon's mom taught her to say affirmations. Sharon
always wanted to be on A and TM, so at home,
her mother would tell her you are America's next top model.
My mom taught me a version of this, naming it
(34:34):
and claiming it. Producers thought it would be a good
idea to have Sharon repeat that mantra once she got
into the house. It's one thing to have your mom
tell you you're going to be America's next top model. Baby,
it's another thing to keep repeating it to everyone you meet.
On the first episode of a show where everyone also
thinks they're going to be America's next top model.
Speaker 12 (34:57):
I believe I am America's best top model.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
I won't get this.
Speaker 12 (35:00):
I want this so bad, so let me start by
introducing myself.
Speaker 10 (35:02):
My name is Sharan.
Speaker 6 (35:04):
I am America's next top model. I really, my name is.
Speaker 12 (35:07):
Sharon, and I am America's next top model.
Speaker 7 (35:10):
Okay, so good stuff that I can.
Speaker 6 (35:11):
I ask you the MBAs you have it all.
Speaker 13 (35:12):
In the bag.
Speaker 12 (35:13):
Yes, very confident with myself, but I don't want anybody
to read it as like being cocky or arrogant.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
But kaki and arrogant was exactly how she came off.
Sharan gave the producers what they wanted, but the character
they'd created for her wasn't likable.
Speaker 17 (35:28):
Oh, Searon, she's always wild and over the top and
be crazy.
Speaker 7 (35:33):
I find that kind of propulsive and most girls.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Producers were setting Sharan up to be the season's first villain.
They already laid the foundation of her being cocky and annoying.
They drove it home by making her a bully. You
already know reality TV producers often stir the pot to
get drama going between cast members. Cycle eleven, the cycle
(35:58):
Sharan was on, featured a 's first openly trans contestant.
Her name is Isis. We're going to talk about the
way A and TM handled gender identity later on in
this season. For now, we're going to focus on the
storyline between Isis and Sharon, And I'll say this, the
situation we saw on the show did not make Sharan
(36:18):
look good. Cycle eleven premiered in two thousand and eight.
The way society talks about gender identity and trans people
today still isn't great, but two thousand and eight might
as well have been the stone age. On the first episode,
when it was revealed that Isis is trans, some of
the girls in the house were uncomfortable. Some of them
were downright me A group of girls were portrayed as
(36:41):
bullying Isis, and Sharon was in that group. The first
photo shoot of the season was a voting shoot. Remember
it was two thousand and eight. When it was their turn,
each model had to look sexy at the ballot booth
with the wind machine blowing in their face. Peek A
and TM. A group of models were staged in Isis's
shoe behind the booth as if they were spying on her.
(37:03):
Sharan was in that group of models and justa heads up,
this isn't nice to hear.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
So obviously you have the strap that is see true.
You got the cameras, so you have no privacy and
you guys are still spying on her.
Speaker 8 (37:16):
Remember you're in the shot.
Speaker 12 (37:17):
That's the funniest thing that's in my head, like trying
to be said, reality is she's a man.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
That was Sharon who said reality is she's a man
and a cut. In confessional, Sharan and the other models
made jokes about Isis. They caught her sweaty and said
she looked Harry. But in the scene it's unclear who's
saying what. Either way, it made Searan look like the
ring leader. She came across as a mean bully. But
according to Sharon, what we saw on the show isn't
(37:47):
the full picture.
Speaker 6 (37:48):
Ices wassuming her photo shoot and we were behind the
photo booths. First of all, we were placed there and
so they hands picked all of ironically, the black and
brown girls to go on her photo shoot, and they
placed us behind her where she was shooting.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
There was one white model.
Speaker 6 (38:08):
They did that to make that scene as if she
was being taunted and bullied during her shoot.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Sharon says they were standing there for a long time
and they started to crack your mama jokes on each other,
including isis It was immature, for sure, but Sharon swears
they weren't just picking on isis.
Speaker 6 (38:27):
When you cut out one portion of it and only
show another portion of it, it looks like something that
is not. And now the whole world thinks that all
of those girls, black and brown girls that were back
there are caddy our gossiping, our taunted when it was
actually the opposite.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
It didn't just make them look like bullies. It made
them look like bigots, because that's the plot line A
and TM wanted. Later in that same episode, we see
Sharon's confessional and she appears to be ranting about isis.
Speaker 12 (38:58):
Isis is over this time America? This next top model
is not going to be a drag queen. I'm sorry, it's.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Not That's the line we all remember. Sharan By she
told me that behind the scenes, producers asked her a
question and told her to repeat it back to them.
Speaker 6 (39:14):
I was asked, what do you think about a drag
queen being America's next top model? But when you're asked
a question in a way, you're told you have to
repeat a question back.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
That's pretty standard in these reality TV confessionals. If so,
producers can cut their questions and the contestants' answers will
still make sense. Sharan says she didn't voluntarily call Isis
a drag queen. She was asked do you think America's
next top model will be a drag queen? And then
asked to repeat her answer in a neutral and sassy way.
(39:47):
She says the producers chose her sassy response. Sharon told
me that if she was asked to do this today,
she would say no, She'd tell them Isis is a woman,
not a drag queen. But this was filmed twenty years
ago when Tharan was still in high school. She didn't
have the understanding she has now.
Speaker 6 (40:05):
If I have the knowledge to correct them and correct
how I refer to her in that moment, then I
would have. But I did it.
Speaker 5 (40:13):
I was a young girl.
Speaker 6 (40:15):
I ain't no no better, And I was also kind
of prompted to answer the question in such a way.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
This scene of Sharan bullying Isis put the nail in
her coffin. She was already annoying and arrogant. Now she
was being mean, and to top it all off, she
bombed when it was her time in front of the camera.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
Hey Searn, it's looking a little convoluted and in a way,
it's not pretty.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
On that episode, during the elimination, when Tyra announced the
girls who would go to the next round, Isis was
called out second, which is pretty high praise. Sharon, however,
was sent home packing. It was the same day as
the high school graduation she'd missed to be on A
and TM. Sharan was devastated, but she cheered herself up
(41:05):
even though she went home early. She'd beaten out thousands
of girls and made it on her favorite show. The
real depression didn't kick in until weeks later when she
saw her edit on television.
Speaker 6 (41:16):
My family threw a watch party, and so we all
got together, I like my uncle's house, and everybody was
so excited, and we made a big event and a
big party out of it. And I was excited to
because never did across my mind that things would be
you know edited in such a way. I didn't know
that I was eliminated early on, and I know that
my family and stuff didn't know that, so I was
maybe a little nervous about that. But as everything started airing,
(41:39):
initially they was shelby and we'd be like yeah, And
then as they kept going on, starry, silent, silent, and
I could feel the energy in the room. My heart dropped.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Sharan found out with the rest of the world and
a room filled with her family and friends that she
was Cycle eleven's first villain.
Speaker 6 (42:02):
And it was a very kind of like tens situation
in tense in the air, and it was very confusing.
You're questioning reality or you're questioning what happened, and you're
questioning your truth and what you knew also happened. And
it was heartbreaking because it wasn't a true reflection of
who I was.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
It didn't matter to A and TM producers who Charon
really was, because Charon was a character in a story.
It was a story of an over confident bully who
gets what's coming to her when she flops in the
first photo shoot and is eliminated. It was a tidy
character arc that started the season off with a bang.
We have no way of knowing if Charon was sent
(42:44):
home that week because she actually had the worst photo,
or if she was sent home because that made the
best story. And that's because a lot of what we
saw on A and TM was an illusion.
Speaker 10 (42:57):
I've heard producers talk where they were like, Yeah, this
girl's boring, she's terrible TV.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
What do we want to do?
Speaker 10 (43:03):
Photo shoot? You know, everything is still on the up
and up. Maybe their photo that's chosen is not the
best photo, is not their best photo.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
After the break, you'll hear how the producers created the
version of reality we saw on the show. Reality competition
shows are not always there. That was certainly true on
A and t M. What made the show entertaining wasn't
(43:36):
just the photo shoots. It was the drama, the personalities
the models brought to the set. But the best models
didn't always make the best reality TV. So producers had
a way of getting rid of contestants who weren't entertaining enough.
Here's hound mixer Jose Taurres.
Speaker 10 (43:53):
I've heard producers talk where they were like, Yeah, this
girl's boring, she's terrible TV. What do we want to
do shoot? You know, everything is still on the up
and up. Maybe their photo that's chosen is not the
best photo, is not their best photo.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
That's why so many of y'all's fades were getting sent home.
Early producers had the right to use creative license in
tailor and competition how they faw fit, meaning the most
talented model didn't always win. Oftentimes the person with the
best story or best TV personality did. When someone wasn't
(44:30):
delivering what the producers needed to make good TV, or
when the producers were done with their storyline, they would
pick a model's worst photo and say it was their best.
I asked ANTM creative producer Andrew Patterson about this. Was
it always the best person winning? And was it always
the worst person being sent home?
Speaker 9 (44:52):
Hena?
Speaker 7 (44:53):
Hena.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Now I'm not saying every elimination was predetermined for the play.
Producers couldn't manipulate everything. You still had to be a
talented model in order to progress in the competition. It's
just that the talented models who also had interesting personalities
or the best stories were usually the ones who made
it to the finale. And when it was time to
(45:17):
get rid of a lackluster contestant, producers had other ways
of tipping the scales. I asked casting producer Raphael d'Orval
how that worked. He didn't want to give me an
example from A and Tom, so he used RuPaul's drag
Race to explain.
Speaker 11 (45:33):
Let's say you're a contestant on Roopol's Drug Race, right
and let's say, for what are reason you're not rising
to the occasion on the show, and you're just not
stepping up as an interesting personality on the show right now,
if you're just falling flat, and producers are freaking out,
they're like, oh God, we got to ever head this person.
(45:55):
They're bringing the whole show down. Now we know about
this person. So when you're vetting these people who listen,
let's just say, and there's always a season, whether it's
somebody who doesn't know how to sew.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
He's referring to sewing challenges. Drag Race is also a
competition reality show. Contestants are expected to perform dance, singing,
act and occasionally sew their own costumes. Every contestant has
their strengths, but inevitably there's always some queen on the
show who doesn't even know how to thread a needle.
Speaker 11 (46:27):
So if you're going on the show and you don't
know how to sew, it's going to be very difficult
for you if there's a challenge that you have to
sew not one, not two, but three different outfits, which
has happened on the show. So let's just say the
Powers that bio like, ooh, this girl's rough. She's killing us.
This is not going to work. So I'm trying to
(46:49):
get rid of Brittany. I guess our next challenge has
to be a sewing challenge. Maybe we're on episode four,
and maybe the big sewing challenge supposed to happen until
episode six was switching up the game, and now we're
making the sewing challenge episode four. So there's always ways
(47:10):
to kind of do what you need to do.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
For whatever reason, Rafael didn't want to spill the t
on A and TM. Maybe he's a Tyra Banks loyalist.
Maybe he's still under his NDA. But in case you're
having trouble deciphering his drag Race riddle, Rafael is saying
A and TM had a way of producing the results
they wanted in the competition. Producers designed the photo shoots
(47:37):
and runways. They also knew the contestants' weaknesses. So if
there was a boring model who took decent pictures but
had a horrible runway walk, surprise, surprise, that runway date
plan for week eight is happening today. The boring model
would trip over her heels and get sent home promptly
by the judges, and they didn't even have to select
her worst photo to get rid of her. Not trying
(48:00):
to make the producers sound like evil masterminds who wanted
to torture and sabotage these models, they were doing their jobs,
creating a show that was entertaining and memorable. I've said
it before and I'll say it again. Watching twelve perfectly
nice and talented models compete in intimate photoshoots and realistic
runways would have been boring. It was fun to watch
(48:23):
Britney drink and dance on tables. It's riveting to see
a bunch of scared models hanging off the side of
a seven hundred foot building. It was satisfying to see
Sharon get eliminated first. Before the contestants, it was a
different story. They knew the show would be edited, however,
most of them thought they would get a fair shake
(48:43):
in the competition, but a and TM used them like
pieces on a chessboard. There were heroes and villains, and
the producers moved them around or knocked them off the
board to fit the story they wanted to tell. Here
sound mixerj they.
Speaker 10 (48:59):
Tore top model. Honestly, a lot of those girls were
just like cogs in the machine.
Speaker 5 (49:08):
You know.
Speaker 10 (49:08):
They got looked at as there were a commodity, there
were a product. They were brought on to be part
of a TV show. If they had a good experience, great,
and if they didn't, that's a shame, you know, it's
too bad. That was the mentality.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Being a contestant on A and TM meant you might
get dangled off the side of a building, thrown in
a pool of water, or on top of a Greek salad.
You might be made to look like a drunk or
a villain. But it was supposed to all be worth
it because even if you didn't win, you got a portfolio.
(49:45):
Aspiring models often paid thousands of dollars to get professional
photos they could send out to agents. Your portfolio could
jump start your career. Here's Tyra talking to the contestants
about the power of a good portfolio.
Speaker 16 (50:00):
I booked twenty five fashion shows in Paris off of one, two,
three photos, so you have four see you have a
leg up?
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Okay, Tyra Poppins. But the point is, the promise of
the portfolio is why a lot of these women allowed
themselves to be dangled off the side of a building
or covered in live bees, because if they could look
fierce while they did it, that photo could be their
golden ticket. But after they were eliminated, a lot of
(50:28):
contestants found out their A and TM portfolio was a
glorified coffee table book. They were a joke to modeling agencies.
Here's Kenya Hill from cycle four.
Speaker 5 (50:39):
I already knew by the time it ended like this
is a TV show, but.
Speaker 9 (50:43):
I was expecting the modeling industry to embrace me with
open arms because this is America's next Top Model.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
After the show, Kenya moved to New York, ready to
take on the industry A and TM photos in hand.
Like a lot of the models I've spoken to, she
was then for it rude awakening.
Speaker 5 (51:04):
I couldn't even use my portfolio from America's Next Top
Model in my actual portfolio because the pictures from the
show were so over the top, so overly edited, overly styled,
overly made up. It was for TV. Real modeling portfolios
didn't look like how our pictures looked. The retouching was insane.
(51:25):
That is not how photos actually look in magazines.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Kenya eventually became a working model, but she had to
build her career herself. These days, she coaches new models
who are trying to break into the industry. She said
this her mission to give them more than A and
TM gave her. Before Kenya was cast on ANTM, she'd
been a fan, and she fully bought into the premise.
(51:51):
She thought A and TM was really a competition to
find and make the best model. As a teenager, I
did too, I think we all did. But once Kenya
left Top Model and launched her career, she realized the
show wasn't at all like the real modeling industry.
Speaker 9 (52:08):
The average person watching the show would the oh, yep,
that's a photo shoot, that's the modeling industry, and so
I think like the entire country took that as Yep,
this is real. This is the modeling industry through and through,
and it's just not true.
Speaker 5 (52:25):
It's just not the case. So much of it was
just TV. It was pure entertainment.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
And something America found very entertaining were racist stereotypes and
a and Tim was among the best to ever do it.
That's what we'll get into on the next episode. Thanks
for listening to the Curse of America's Next Top Model.
We really appreciate the support. We'd love for you to
really show your support by subscribing to our show on
(52:54):
Apple Podcasts and don't forget to leave us a five
star rating and review. If you love the show, tell
your group, chat, your co workers, your friends, your mama
to check us out, and if you don't, maybe keep
that one to yourself. Thanks again to all of our listeners.
The Curse of America's Next Top Model is a production
of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in
(53:16):
partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by
Nancy Glass, hosted and senior produced by me Bridget Armstrong.
Our story editor is Monique Leboard. Also produced by Ben
Fetterman and Andrea Denning. Associate producers are Alisha Key, Kristin, Melcriy,
and Curry Richmond. Consulting producers are Oliver Twist and Kate Taylor.
(53:39):
Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Audio
editing and mixing by Andrew Callaway and Matt del Vecchio.
The Curse of America's Next Top Model theme music was
composed by Oliver Bains. Music library provided by mid Music.
Special thanks to everyone we interviewed for this podcast, especially
the models for sharing their story. And For more podcasts
(54:01):
from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts. Also check out the Glass podcast
Instagram at Glass Podcasts for Curse of America's Next Top Model,
behind the scenes content and more.
Is cycle eighteen, the British Invasion season of America's Next
Top Model.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
It's raining so hard, it's really windy, it's so so.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
High up like we're on the deck of the Macaw Tower,
eleven hundred foot building. A and TM judge Ja Manguel
just told the remaining five models of the season.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
The Macaw Tower is the home of the tallest bungee
jump in the.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
World, and that the top deck of this building, way
out on the ledge, seven hundred and sixty feet up
is the location for today's photo shoot.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
We turn up at this bloody tower and it is
raining hard, maybe even haling, who knows it.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Was definitely hailing. That's Sophie Sumner, who you heard in
the tape psyching herself up to go out on that leg,
knowing full well that one slippery wrong step combined with
a harness malfunction could send her flying into the pavement
seven hundred and fifty feet below. You met Sophie a
few episodes ago. She's the British model who said signing
(01:15):
the A and TM contract basically meant the show owned you.
On her season, she walked a light pink bob Very
twenty twelve it was a season she went on to win,
but on this day she was ready to walk off
set and just go home.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
We're in a brand new continent that most of us
have never been to, and we go out on that
stupid ledge or something.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
I am terrified of.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Height Cycle eighteen pit models from the UK against models
from the US, and Sophie wasn't new to this. She'd
competed on Britain's Next Top Model before A and TM,
but the photoshoot she did on that show looked like
school picture Dad compared to this drake in simple, long
black dresses with exaggerated shoulder pads, hairstyles that were straight
(02:01):
out of the Capitol beauty salon. On Honger Games, the
models were proposed to represent the strength and power of Macau,
but at this moment they were looking anything but strong.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
I stepped out there and I have never to this
day been that terrified on the side of a building,
like slipping all over the place with rain coming down
god knows how high up.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Up to this point, Sophie had pretty much trusted the production. Sure,
some of the photoshoots were over the top, but she
didn't think the show would ever put her in harm's
way now standing on that slippery seven hundred foot ledge,
she wasn't so sure. According to Sophie, under normal circumstances,
(02:45):
in these weather conditions, the skywalk they were posing on
would be closed to the public.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
I don't know if it's before the photo shoot or after,
but it definitely had been closed to the public. It
was definitely unsafe. It was not Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Ken Lock was there.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
They were like, you know, we should really.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Close it type thing, and I remember him or somehow
I overheard something that he was like, no, we're doing
this no matter what.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
And so I also went out there.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
With the knowledge that this wasn't safe and we shouldn't
be out there now.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I have to say this legally, I can't confirm if
ken Mok said that or not, but it is what
Sophie remembers. Okay, if you don't hear that, we turn around.
Imagine being out on a ledge. You're terrified of heights.
You think the situation isn't safe, and in your mind,
the only thing keeping you from falling to your imminent
(03:42):
death is the harness you're clinging to. And then you
hear the photographer tell you to hold a pose.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Sorry, hon I'm sorry.
Speaker 6 (03:55):
I'll get the harness at away from my body if
you can stop.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Holding the harness, you mean, the thing keeping her from
falling off this slippery seven hundred and sixty foot ledge.
Speaker 7 (04:05):
I was just shaking, crying.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
It's so awful, right because you actually have no choice.
You're going home because you didn't see the photo shoot.
Speaker 7 (04:14):
I feel like we've got good shot.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Sophie didn't know it then, but the shaking, the crying,
the pure of terror and panic in her eyes was
all by design. You see heights. What's her biggest fear?
Speaker 8 (04:28):
If someone had a particular fear, we would find out
in the costings.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
That's Andrew Patterson, the creative producer for A and TM
cycles fifteen through twenty. He and his team came up
with every photoshoot the models did, including this one. He
was the reason they were up there struggling to look
strong and beautiful while being pelted with freezing rain. Andrew
had designed this photo shoot to get this very reaction
(04:53):
out of the models.
Speaker 8 (04:54):
You go through the casting falls and you'd be like, okay,
well this one's scared of heights, so maybe this cycle
we should do a photoshoot.
Speaker 7 (05:01):
Which is one hundred stories in the air.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
He was there that day to see how his little
experiment unfolded.
Speaker 7 (05:08):
It is pissing down with rain. It is so cold
out there.
Speaker 8 (05:11):
I think there might have been slight icicles, like literally,
like the girls are getting pelted by ice and they're
in tears and they're crying, and you know, girls are
going out there and they're slipping and they're falling.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yeah, if the models wanted to blame anyone other than
themselves were signing up for this. Andrew was the guy.
But that didn't mean he didn't have a heart.
Speaker 8 (05:33):
I'm a nice guy, and you know, I'm trying to, like,
you know, warm them up, and I'm like, you know,
consoling them, like, oh sweetheart, it's okay, you can do this.
Speaker 7 (05:40):
Don't worry, don't worry, don't worry.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
But A and TM's executive producer Ken Mark wasn't having it.
Speaker 8 (05:46):
And I get a tap in the back of my
shoulder from Ken Mock say, Andrews, stop it, stop it.
We want to see these girls cry. This is going
to make great television. Stop consoling them. Play it out,
let them be as it is.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Maybe at a shoot in the real world it would
be kind even expected for a creative producer to comfort
the scared talent. But this wasn't the real world. This
was reality TV. You want to be on some, you
want to beyond some. Welcome to the Curse of America's
(06:28):
Next Top Model. I'm Bridget Armstrong. Even though reality TV
is supposed to be real, we all know, at least
these days, it's really about telling a story and a
and TM was no exception. The show presented itself as
(06:49):
a look behind the curtain, a window into what it
took to be a high fashion model. But America's Next
Top Model was always a reality TV show first and
a modeling competition second. It prioritized drama and good characters
over the best models, and featured unrealistic and even dangerous
photoshoots that no model would ever do in the real industry,
(07:12):
like dangling Sophie off the side of a seven hundred
foot building just so we could see her freak out.
They did that to make great reality TV. So on
this episode, we're going to take a look at how
the show achieved that and what the cost was to
the models. By the time we get to the macle
(07:32):
Tower photoshoot on cycle eighteen A and TM had already
built a reputation for wacky and extreme photoshoots, challenges and runways.
These are the stunts that made A and TM iconic,
and each season they had to top the last. There
are so many outrageous photoshoots in A and TM history
that I've decided to make them into a little game.
(07:54):
I'm calling it, Did that really happened? My team and
I came up with the most ridiculous fictional runways and
photo shoots we could think of. I want you to
guess which are the ones we made up in which
actually happened on A and TM. Consider it a test
of your top model knowledge. Okay, let's start. Is it
(08:18):
A the models pose inside a meat locker, lying on
an ice block with nothing but a bikinion or B
the models are submerged in a freezing cold pool for
over forty five minutes, wearing nothing but a thin gown.
If you guess B, you are correct. On cycle seven,
(08:41):
the models have to pose in water so cold one
of the contestants carry the English almost got hypothermia. Carried
You're from Cargo.
Speaker 9 (08:50):
Come on, this is real, real modeling, guys being cold as.
Speaker 10 (08:55):
There's a point where my body just literally takes over,
Like I feel like my skin and everything that's just.
Speaker 8 (09:01):
Like pins and needles go.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
When the camera got on me, you.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Know, I try to just shake those shivers away and
not let her show my face.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
She was so cold knit, she was kind of convulsive.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
As a model, you need to tell people when you've
passed your limit.
Speaker 7 (09:16):
It wasn't just that she was cold. It wasn't just
that her teeth were chattering.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
She had reached the moment of hypothermia.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yep, you heard that right after Tyra encouraged Carrie D
to stick it out because she's some fargo. Jay Manuel
blamed Carrie D for not saying she was literally freezing sooner. Okay,
that one was a little too easy. Let's try another one,
which is a real A and TM photoshoot. Is it
A the models are harnessed to the wing of a
(09:45):
low flying plane and full lamb with aviator jackets and
six inch chos. Or B the models have to strut
down a moving conveyor belt in front of an audience
while wearing full length gowns and six inch chos. The
answer is B. On cycle fifteen, the models had to
walk a conveyor belt in the second Street tunnel in
(10:05):
La I've never felt more embarrassed at one.
Speaker 11 (10:08):
Time in my life.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I'd rather have natural labor.
Speaker 6 (10:11):
Again than do this.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I didn't come in here having a very good walk
in the first place, and I guess I started to
overthink it when.
Speaker 12 (10:27):
The conveyor belt when you go backwards, kind of bumpy,
so like I got on there and my shoes just
filled right off. But I still was smiling though.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, I'm still feared. I'm still feared.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
When you heard the audience go whoa. That was their
reaction to one of the models actually tripping and falling
off the runway. Okay, let's change the rules a little
bit and play two truths and a lie. I'll give
you three scenarios, two of which actually happened on A
and T M. The other was made up. Option A.
(11:02):
The models do a photo shoot in Canada drenched in
maple syrup while wearing maple league. B. The models do
a photo shoot in Japan in a tank of coyfish
while wearing Ramen noodles or C. The models do a
photoshoot in Greece posing on top of a giant bowl
of Greek salad. Wearing nothing but a bikini. Now, remember
(11:24):
two of these really happened on A and TM. If
you guessed A and C, you are correct. Andrew told
me the maple syrup photoshoot was a last minute idea.
The girls were supposed to do a photo shoot for
former A and TM judge and supermodel Twiggy's clothing brand.
(11:45):
At the time, Twiggy was living in Canada, but when
she canceled the day before the shoot, Andrew and his
team had to come up with something quick.
Speaker 8 (11:55):
We started at six am, like, we're going to have
the girls in hair and make up. Okay, what's this
country famous for?
Speaker 7 (12:02):
Maple syrup?
Speaker 8 (12:04):
Like okay, all right, all right, okay, maple leaves and
maple syrup, and so we were like okay. So literally
from then we went outside and we grabbed all these
maple leaves and we had all these bikinis and I
started sewing maple leaves onto bikinis.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
And the Greek salad photo she well, that was Tyra's idea.
Speaker 7 (12:25):
They're like, we're going to Greece next cycle.
Speaker 8 (12:27):
I was like, okay, that's pretty cool, and so we
contacted the tourism bureau and Greece and you know, typically
that's what would happen, is that one of the executives
would do deals with the tourism bureau of each country
or an airline to bring us all out there.
Speaker 7 (12:40):
In a meeting with Tyra, I'm like, what do you
think of Greece?
Speaker 8 (12:43):
Tira, tell me the first thing that comes to your mind,
and she goes the Greek salad. And I was like,
oh my god, you don't think Greek mythology, you don't
think Medusa, you don't think all of these other beautiful things.
You think of a Greek salad. And she goes, yep,
I want to throw the girls into a ball of
green salad.
Speaker 7 (13:00):
And Drew I was like, okay, well, let me let
me talk to the group cheers and bure just see
if fucking win them over with the grid r D.
Speaker 8 (13:10):
But it was it was very top model, you know
what I mean, to tow the girls into a ball
of Greek salad?
Speaker 7 (13:15):
Which was that first photo shoot in Creek?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Okay, last question for extra credit, choose all that apply.
Which of these runways did a and TM feature that
actually caused the models bodily harm? Is it a a
floating runway where the models had to walk a rickety
runway that was floating in a pool while wearing six
inch heels. Is it B A pendulum runway where the
(13:43):
models had to walk a runway while dodging a pendulum
swinging back and forth. Is it C a runway where
the models were placed inside a plastic bubble and told
to walk a twelve inch wide runway that was floating
over water. Or is it D a runway where the
contestants had to walk down the side of a building
in a harness that, my friends, was a trick question.
(14:11):
The answer is all for congratulations to our winners. As
a prize, you get to continue listening to this episode,
and you know what, I'm such a benevolent host. Some
of the losers and these runways didn't just happen to
be dangerous. Freelance reporter Kate Taylor wrote an excellent piece
(14:32):
all about Top Model for Business Insider. She's a consulting
producer for this podcast. She told me she talked to
an A and TM crew member who told her the
floating runway was rickety on purpose.
Speaker 13 (14:46):
I spoke with a producer actually who for the floating runways,
said that they had people go in and loosen the
runway even more to make it less safe because they're like, well,
it's going to be more interesting if someone falls. So
that was something that throughout the process seemed to be
you want to make good television, and at times the
good television came at the expense of the well being
(15:10):
of contestants.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Eugena Washington, who competed on that season cycle seven, was
one of the ones who fell on the runway. As
soon as I stepped on it with one foot, I split.
Speaker 14 (15:23):
I kept going after I fell off, I just kept going.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
I'm freaking leading. Eugena still has the scar from that
to this day. Here she is talking with consulting producer
Oliver Twigs on his YouTube channel.
Speaker 6 (15:38):
I don't know if you can see this scar, but
this scar right.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
This this Eugena sit up to show Oliver a nasty
scar on her knee.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
Yes, with my real life body.
Speaker 14 (15:54):
Okay, okay, because you're on this runway that's floating. And
so they put on two corsets, pulled them as tight
as they could possibly pull them, so I could not breathe,
and then I had six inch stiletto hills, like needle
(16:16):
stiletto hills. So I'm walking on my fucking tippy toes
and then the shoes are a size too big and
they said go out there.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
And poles it bit you better smiles in front of.
Speaker 14 (16:29):
All these lights in the dark, under these conditions. So
as a human being, you're like this, I can die
because first I can't breathe, I can't walk. And then
the runways going like this on top of water, and
they're talking about get to the end and take a
good picture, and.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
The pendulum runway A ANDTM found mixer Hojte Torres was
there that day and he remembers how it all went.
Speaker 10 (16:52):
Down that pendulum runway. The entire crew was on pins
and needles waiting for some you know, if we didn't
want somebody to get knocked off, but we're like it
was funny, but not funny. And then the one girl
who got hit. I'm trying to remember who that was. Uh,
(17:12):
I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Her name was Alexandra.
Speaker 10 (17:15):
Oh yeah, she was so nice, but yeah, man, she
got hit. And it like you could just play like
that cartoon sound or somebody sort of like about to
teeter off the side and fall off, and you could
just hear like the bongo sound or whatever. The whoa whoa,
whoa whoa, and off she went and crashed into some
lights and she cut up her knee and we're like.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Oh God, No, all of this, all of these wild
photoshoots and challenges happened before the cycle eighteen Makaal Tower
photoshoot you heard at the top of this episode, and
by the time that aired, A and TM was past
its heyday and struggling to draw an audience as large
as previous seasons. A modeling competition where ten to fourteen
(17:58):
girls battle it out see who's the best was no
longer cutting it. Creative producer Andrew Patterson Again.
Speaker 8 (18:04):
Tyra was very adamant that after cycle thirteen she never
wanted to do a normal top model again, so she
started with short girls and then she went into high
fashion and then it progressed from there.
Speaker 7 (18:18):
So when I started, there was always a theme.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
There was the All Star season, the college season, the
British Invasion, and the seasons where they included guys. But
it wasn't just the season themes that had to up
the ante. It was the challenges, the photo shoots, and
the runways themselves, which was not an easy task. By
the time Andrew started in twenty fifteen.
Speaker 7 (18:38):
We were just trying to do things that hadn't been
done before.
Speaker 8 (18:41):
Especially when I joined, they had already done two hundred
and fifty photo shoots on camera before, so trying to
come up with creative.
Speaker 7 (18:47):
That they had never been seen was not easy.
Speaker 8 (18:50):
I'd sit there and I'd pitch things to Tyre and
she'd be like, oh no, honey, we did that cycle two,
episode eight.
Speaker 7 (18:54):
I was like, oh damn it, okay, And.
Speaker 8 (18:56):
For each photo shoot I had to come up with
fifteen different options. Look at that, that's a one hundred
to one hundred and eighty different options per cycle.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
So would you say that you guys were sort of
encouraged to do these things that could cross some that
will say accident, so miss app some far off some
trip ups. Were you encouraged to do that?
Speaker 7 (19:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (19:16):
We were encouraged to make things spicy, make things like
they'd never been seen before.
Speaker 7 (19:24):
We thought it made good TV.
Speaker 8 (19:25):
And a lot of this came down to wanting the
audience to go, wow, did you see this? Like, oh
my god, can you believe that they did this? Can
you believe that they did that? So we had to
come up with these elements of fear or these different
elements to see if the girls could have it or
be able to do the photo shoot, or go underwater
and hold their breath and be able to strike a pose,
(19:45):
or you know, can they smise while they have a
silk worm on them? Or are they able to hold
it together when they're you know, two hundred stories in
the air being thrown off the side of the building
in pelting rain.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Working models sometimes have to pose in a scary situation
or with a wild animal. Cindy Crawford posed nude with
a Boa constrictor in the nineties. One time Kate Upton
posed in a bikini in Antarctica while standing on an iceberg.
But those kinds of photoshoots are rare. Andrew work as
a fashion photographer in the real world before joining A
(20:19):
and TM. He told me professional photoshoots are almost always
the opposite of what we thowt on top model.
Speaker 8 (20:27):
Coming from the real world of advertising. I've shot campaigns
for Louis Vuitton, I've shot campaigns for Chanel.
Speaker 7 (20:33):
Hugo Boss.
Speaker 8 (20:35):
That's not how we do it. Top model is not
how we do it in the real world. Model's pictures
are very intimate. It's between them and the photographer. It's
when you have a connection with a photographer and you
really connect with them that you actually get beautiful images,
and not a lot of that goes on on Top Model.
There's intimate moments where you get you know, these beautiful
(20:56):
you know, big eyes and you get your reactions. Those
moments work, you know, on America's Next Top Model because
they just changed the channel and it'd be very boring,
you know, crazy wacky, quirky, unusual photoshoots. Was to keep
the audience, and that was to keep ratings. That was
to keep you know, people wanting to watch the next
(21:17):
episode or you know, tuning in to the next cycle.
I mean a lot of this stuff might not be realistic,
but it certainly added to the story in which we
were creating, and it added to the competitive element of
a competition reality show.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
On cycle one, they did do semi realistic photoshoots and
the result most bands consider Cycle two to be the
real start of America's Next Top Model. I don't think
A and TM would have lasted very long if it
would have remained realistic. A TM took the premise of
(21:51):
modeling and made it entertaining, and there's nothing wrong about that.
Project Runway takes the art of designing clothes and makes
it competitive by presents themed and timed challenges. The issue
with A and TM is that models use their faces
and bodies to convey their talent, and that means putting
their bodies on the line, which seems even more insidious
(22:13):
when you consider they signed a contract that says if
they get hurt while carrying out these production fever dreams,
A ANDTM wouldn't owe them anything, not even medical care
once they left the show if they got a long
term injury. Many of the models signed up to do
these outrageous things because they thought it would help them
(22:34):
in the real modeling world, but as we've said over
and over, for most of them, it didn't. It actually
made them a joke in the fashion industry. After the
break will take a look at the casting process and
how from the very beginning A ANDTM was thinking about
the story, not the best models. There's a part for
(23:00):
creating the characters and personalities we love and hate on
reality TV. It starts in.
Speaker 11 (23:06):
Casting the unscripted world. You're dealing with everyday people, and
they are not actors.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
That's Raphael Doorball. He was a casting producer for America's
Next Top Model cycles twenty one through twenty four. Those
were the seasons that included guys and girls. Thousands of
wanna be contestants sent in audition tapes and showed up
to castings. Raphael was a part of the team who
looked for people who would pop on screen.
Speaker 11 (23:32):
Some people are already amplified their pre turned. They come
in the door swinging, you know, and we're just steering them.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Like Brittany Brower from Cycle four. Brittany looked a lot
like a young Janis Dickinson, something that probably made her
stand out. Here's what she said happened during her casting process.
Speaker 15 (23:49):
I got called in a room probably with maybe like
twenty to thirty other women. They had to stand in
a big circle and go around the rim and say
who we were and a little bit about ourselves. And
everyone was just kind of going around the circle and
you know, like, Hi, I'm.
Speaker 7 (24:05):
Diana, I'm from you know, the North Carolina.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I like pink flowers.
Speaker 15 (24:10):
And then she gets around to me and I'm like, Hello,
I'm Riddy Alena Brower, I'm from Tallahassee.
Speaker 7 (24:16):
Florida.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
I'm twenty two.
Speaker 15 (24:17):
Years old, go seminoles and I am so happy to
be here.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Michelle like stopped everybody. Michelle mop the head casting director.
Speaker 15 (24:28):
And I had a green Abercromi skirt on, and she goes,
you see green skirt here, you see green skirts?
Speaker 5 (24:34):
Call me green skirt. She's like, you guys, see green
skirt here.
Speaker 15 (24:37):
She's like, that's the kind of energy we need from
all of you.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
But not everyone comes in pre turned like Brittany. It
was rare fail's job as a casting producer to identify
that spark in a contestant.
Speaker 11 (24:50):
We are taking their personality and basically amplifying it.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Sometimes potential contestants need the casting producers to put that
in their back.
Speaker 11 (25:01):
So we're in the semifinal stage and we're figuring out, okay,
who's going to make casting. This one guy he came
out to where the producers were and he said, I
can't do this. I can't do this, and he's freaking out.
I was like, what's the matter, what's it going on?
He's like, I can't say this one and this one's
a bitch and she just wants phony and blah blah
blah and he had so much to say.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
The guy wanted out. He didn't think he could handle
all the different personalities. But instead of seeing a quitter,
Raphael saw the makings of great TV.
Speaker 11 (25:30):
I was like, oh, god, you have strong feelings. Okay,
so oh right, well why are you telling me? And
he's like, I have stuff events I can't I don't
even want to be out there with them. I don't
want to, and he's getting all agitated, and I was like, well,
I don't think you should be telling me this. Why
don't you go say that to their face. It seems
like you, you know, you got a lot to tell them,
so tell them.
Speaker 6 (25:49):
So he did.
Speaker 11 (25:52):
He went out there and he had stuff to say,
and he made the cast. So casting producers, we literally
are creating people.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Sharon Brown was still in high school when she was
on cycle eleven of Top Model, and she looked like
it on our season. She had this big, infectious smile
that betrayed her age. She turned eighteen a month before
she auditioned. She told me she was one of the
ones who needed guidance, and that guidance started during the
psyche bow.
Speaker 6 (26:23):
The psychologists proceders so basically, give us our character which
I didn't know at the time, but he started it
off by saying like, wow, looked over all of your stuff,
and I can see that you're a very confident person.
Now looking back, I was like, oh, he was giving
me my character or like what they wanted to.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
Portraye we had.
Speaker 6 (26:43):
And he also went with like, but I can see
you're also very reserved in this situation. You want to
make sure that you lean more to that confidence side,
that you lead more into this. I thought that, like, oh, well,
he's telling me about myself and affirming who I am
and how how kind. But yeah, no, and he was
giving me my carere And then that was followed up
by the producer who then reiterated that it was like,
(27:05):
I know you like to read, and I know you're
an introvert, but in this situation we needed to be very,
very extroverted.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Sharan told me she struggled with self esteem when she
was younger. Her mom instilled a sense of confidence in her,
taught her how to say positive affirmations. Maybe that's what
producers picked up on, a sense of outward confidence that
was still developing on the inside. Rafael told me it
was their job to really get to know potential castmates
(27:35):
beyond what they presented on the surface.
Speaker 11 (27:38):
You can tell they've never had a day of therapy
in their life because they want to suddenly tell me everything.
We learn a lot about people in a very short
period of time.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
It was a producer's job to make contestants feel comfortable
enough to talk openly.
Speaker 11 (27:57):
You're building a relationship or report with these people. So yeah,
a big part of being a casting producer is building
trusts for sure.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Sharan says she was an open book during her casting process.
Once the producers had an idea of who she was,
or at least who they wanted her to be on
the show, they started coaching her on what to do
and say. They came up with something that made her
stand out in her audition where she met Tyra and
the Jays.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
Our first meeting with the judges, they were asked me, okay,
so what are you gonna do? And I was like,
just gonna go and leave me and say you know,
and they're like, no, you got to come up with something.
So I was like, okay. We was like, we wanted
this to be memorable. So that's where the whole like
Lucky Abduer came from because that was kind of like
we talked about that together.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
The competition has started and I'm ready for it.
Speaker 12 (28:47):
And when the competition is on, I got my game
face on and I'm like, Hella, confidence.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Are you convinced you've already won?
Speaker 6 (28:52):
I know it, Tira, Oh, tell me why?
Speaker 12 (28:55):
Because I am America's next time model.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
You guys just don't know it yet. And what is that?
Speaker 16 (28:59):
An?
Speaker 9 (29:00):
Your hand?
Speaker 12 (29:03):
Want them everything we've done so far, I've had them.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I always look, she says. When producers were going over
her semi finals plan with her, she mentioned that she
had a pair of underwear that said America's next top
Model across the butt. The producers loved them and told
her she should use that in front of the judging panel,
and the little sun worked. Sharon made it into the house,
but once she was in the house, producers told her
(29:30):
she still needed to present her confident facade.
Speaker 6 (29:33):
The camera makes you look smaller, so we need you
to be figger with all of your actions. If there's
anything going on, make sure you're the first one there.
Tyra loved your like. They would keep telling me that
Tyra loves your confidence. Tyra loves loves and so just
camping it up, and they did it in a way
where you felt like you were getting a private meeting
with producers. At the time, realizing that I was being
(29:56):
pushed or manipulated or coach fit away.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
I just that it was like a big sister to put.
Speaker 6 (30:02):
You on a game of how to you know, how
to show up.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Creating characters in reality TV isn't specific to A and TM.
Audiences need characters to know who to identify with, who
to root for, and who to root agains. Often the
characters play into archetypes or stereotypes we already know that
makes them memorable. Professor Amanda Kline teaches about reality television
at East Carolina University. She says, creating character is what
(30:29):
makes the story stick. This is sort of a fundamental
human need.
Speaker 16 (30:35):
The way people make sense of the world is through categories,
putting things into places that help them make sense. Why
it's important on reality TV is they need to establish
character and story right away, and so to do that,
they need people to appear as certain character types.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
You've heard me refer to former contestants. Is the girl
next door, the wild child, or the villain? This association
on A and TM was by design. Here's a and
TM casting producer Raphael Dervalligan.
Speaker 11 (31:13):
This's a certain formula that you that's a comfort, that's
the reason why you tune in and get excited to watch.
And I think the most exciting thing about Top Model
was you always obviously had a different cast that was
very different from the last, but you also kind of
always got that same formula as well. So you know,
you always got like the country girl guy, you know,
(31:34):
who's in the middle of nowhere, who has no modeling
experience whatsoever. Then you got like the hot jock that
was thrown in there, who's super confident and whatever. And
maybe the beauty queen. You know, you got the girl
who's like did every pageant and you fil them all
together and like' like, how is this going to work?
You know, that's what makes it interesting to watch and fun,
(31:56):
and that's what we looked for.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Remember Brittany from cycle four, the one Michelle Mott called
green Skirt Well on her season, she was loud, she
liked to have fun, and she liked to drink, sometimes
to the detriment of her competition performance. There was a
challenge where the models had to interact with representatives from
Cover Girl at a party. In the episode, Britney seemed
more interested in getting drunk than actually impressing the people
(32:20):
from CoverGirl, or at least that's how the producers made
it look. They were developing a character. Britney was the
party girl. There's people from magazines.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I want to try one of those things.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
L Magazines comes holiday, so that's a drink I had.
Then there was another time when the models went out
and Brittany got wasted. She was dancing on the table.
But Brittany wasn't the only one who got drunk that day.
UV Gomez told me she did too.
Speaker 17 (32:51):
And we were all at this cute little restaurant and
I drank too much and didn't eat at all, and I.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Was like, ooh, I'm not feeling good.
Speaker 17 (33:04):
And I think the producer saw that, and they pulled
me to the side and they like snuck me out
because they already had the drunk girl. There couldn't be two,
so they completely edited all of that out. I even
think I might have gotten sick, but they were like
protecting me, like guarded the bathroom, told me to turn
(33:27):
my mic off. They just didn't want to film any
of that. Because they had Brittany. Producers liked their characters
to be neat. It helps the audience follow the storyline.
We weren't watching A and TM because we wanted to
see complicated characters wrestling with their inner natures. If we
wanted that, we could have turned to HBO.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I asked Britney if that drunk party girl character followed
her after the show, if it hurt her chances in
the industry, and she said it didn't really affect her.
But Sharon wasn't so lucky. In addition to needing country girls,
jocks and party girls, A and TM needed villains, the
characters we laugh at, not with the ones we love
(34:13):
to hate. Sharan had been told to play up her confidence,
but on screen it came across as annoying. Remember I
told you Sharon's mom taught her to say affirmations. Sharon
always wanted to be on A and TM, so at home,
her mother would tell her you are America's next top model.
My mom taught me a version of this, naming it
(34:34):
and claiming it. Producers thought it would be a good
idea to have Sharon repeat that mantra once she got
into the house. It's one thing to have your mom
tell you you're going to be America's next top model. Baby,
it's another thing to keep repeating it to everyone you meet.
On the first episode of a show where everyone also
thinks they're going to be America's next top model.
Speaker 12 (34:57):
I believe I am America's best top model.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
I won't get this.
Speaker 12 (35:00):
I want this so bad, so let me start by
introducing myself.
Speaker 10 (35:02):
My name is Sharan.
Speaker 6 (35:04):
I am America's next top model. I really, my name is.
Speaker 12 (35:07):
Sharon, and I am America's next top model.
Speaker 7 (35:10):
Okay, so good stuff that I can.
Speaker 6 (35:11):
I ask you the MBAs you have it all.
Speaker 13 (35:12):
In the bag.
Speaker 12 (35:13):
Yes, very confident with myself, but I don't want anybody
to read it as like being cocky or arrogant.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
But kaki and arrogant was exactly how she came off.
Sharan gave the producers what they wanted, but the character
they'd created for her wasn't likable.
Speaker 17 (35:28):
Oh, Searon, she's always wild and over the top and
be crazy.
Speaker 7 (35:33):
I find that kind of propulsive and most girls.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Producers were setting Sharan up to be the season's first villain.
They already laid the foundation of her being cocky and annoying.
They drove it home by making her a bully. You
already know reality TV producers often stir the pot to
get drama going between cast members. Cycle eleven, the cycle
(35:58):
Sharan was on, featured a 's first openly trans contestant.
Her name is Isis. We're going to talk about the
way A and TM handled gender identity later on in
this season. For now, we're going to focus on the
storyline between Isis and Sharon, And I'll say this, the
situation we saw on the show did not make Sharan
(36:18):
look good. Cycle eleven premiered in two thousand and eight.
The way society talks about gender identity and trans people
today still isn't great, but two thousand and eight might
as well have been the stone age. On the first episode,
when it was revealed that Isis is trans, some of
the girls in the house were uncomfortable. Some of them
were downright me A group of girls were portrayed as
(36:41):
bullying Isis, and Sharon was in that group. The first
photo shoot of the season was a voting shoot. Remember
it was two thousand and eight. When it was their turn,
each model had to look sexy at the ballot booth
with the wind machine blowing in their face. Peek A
and TM. A group of models were staged in Isis's
shoe behind the booth as if they were spying on her.
(37:03):
Sharan was in that group of models and justa heads up,
this isn't nice to hear.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
So obviously you have the strap that is see true.
You got the cameras, so you have no privacy and
you guys are still spying on her.
Speaker 8 (37:16):
Remember you're in the shot.
Speaker 12 (37:17):
That's the funniest thing that's in my head, like trying
to be said, reality is she's a man.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
That was Sharon who said reality is she's a man
and a cut. In confessional, Sharan and the other models
made jokes about Isis. They caught her sweaty and said
she looked Harry. But in the scene it's unclear who's
saying what. Either way, it made Searan look like the
ring leader. She came across as a mean bully. But
according to Sharon, what we saw on the show isn't
(37:47):
the full picture.
Speaker 6 (37:48):
Ices wassuming her photo shoot and we were behind the
photo booths. First of all, we were placed there and
so they hands picked all of ironically, the black and
brown girls to go on her photo shoot, and they
placed us behind her where she was shooting.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
There was one white model.
Speaker 6 (38:08):
They did that to make that scene as if she
was being taunted and bullied during her shoot.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Sharon says they were standing there for a long time
and they started to crack your mama jokes on each other,
including isis It was immature, for sure, but Sharon swears
they weren't just picking on isis.
Speaker 6 (38:27):
When you cut out one portion of it and only
show another portion of it, it looks like something that
is not. And now the whole world thinks that all
of those girls, black and brown girls that were back
there are caddy our gossiping, our taunted when it was
actually the opposite.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
It didn't just make them look like bullies. It made
them look like bigots, because that's the plot line A
and TM wanted. Later in that same episode, we see
Sharon's confessional and she appears to be ranting about isis.
Speaker 12 (38:58):
Isis is over this time America? This next top model
is not going to be a drag queen. I'm sorry, it's.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Not That's the line we all remember. Sharan By she
told me that behind the scenes, producers asked her a
question and told her to repeat it back to them.
Speaker 6 (39:14):
I was asked, what do you think about a drag
queen being America's next top model? But when you're asked
a question in a way, you're told you have to
repeat a question back.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
That's pretty standard in these reality TV confessionals. If so,
producers can cut their questions and the contestants' answers will
still make sense. Sharan says she didn't voluntarily call Isis
a drag queen. She was asked do you think America's
next top model will be a drag queen? And then
asked to repeat her answer in a neutral and sassy way.
(39:47):
She says the producers chose her sassy response. Sharon told
me that if she was asked to do this today,
she would say no, She'd tell them Isis is a woman,
not a drag queen. But this was filmed twenty years
ago when Tharan was still in high school. She didn't
have the understanding she has now.
Speaker 6 (40:05):
If I have the knowledge to correct them and correct
how I refer to her in that moment, then I
would have. But I did it.
Speaker 5 (40:13):
I was a young girl.
Speaker 6 (40:15):
I ain't no no better, And I was also kind
of prompted to answer the question in such a way.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
This scene of Sharan bullying Isis put the nail in
her coffin. She was already annoying and arrogant. Now she
was being mean, and to top it all off, she
bombed when it was her time in front of the camera.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
Hey Searn, it's looking a little convoluted and in a way,
it's not pretty.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
On that episode, during the elimination, when Tyra announced the
girls who would go to the next round, Isis was
called out second, which is pretty high praise. Sharon, however,
was sent home packing. It was the same day as
the high school graduation she'd missed to be on A
and TM. Sharan was devastated, but she cheered herself up
(41:05):
even though she went home early. She'd beaten out thousands
of girls and made it on her favorite show. The
real depression didn't kick in until weeks later when she
saw her edit on television.
Speaker 6 (41:16):
My family threw a watch party, and so we all
got together, I like my uncle's house, and everybody was
so excited, and we made a big event and a
big party out of it. And I was excited to
because never did across my mind that things would be
you know edited in such a way. I didn't know
that I was eliminated early on, and I know that
my family and stuff didn't know that, so I was
maybe a little nervous about that. But as everything started airing,
(41:39):
initially they was shelby and we'd be like yeah, And
then as they kept going on, starry, silent, silent, and
I could feel the energy in the room. My heart dropped.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Sharan found out with the rest of the world and
a room filled with her family and friends that she
was Cycle eleven's first villain.
Speaker 6 (42:02):
And it was a very kind of like tens situation
in tense in the air, and it was very confusing.
You're questioning reality or you're questioning what happened, and you're
questioning your truth and what you knew also happened. And
it was heartbreaking because it wasn't a true reflection of
who I was.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
It didn't matter to A and TM producers who Charon
really was, because Charon was a character in a story.
It was a story of an over confident bully who
gets what's coming to her when she flops in the
first photo shoot and is eliminated. It was a tidy
character arc that started the season off with a bang.
We have no way of knowing if Charon was sent
(42:44):
home that week because she actually had the worst photo,
or if she was sent home because that made the
best story. And that's because a lot of what we
saw on A and TM was an illusion.
Speaker 10 (42:57):
I've heard producers talk where they were like, Yeah, this
girl's boring, she's terrible TV.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
What do we want to do?
Speaker 10 (43:03):
Photo shoot? You know, everything is still on the up
and up. Maybe their photo that's chosen is not the
best photo, is not their best photo.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
After the break, you'll hear how the producers created the
version of reality we saw on the show. Reality competition
shows are not always there. That was certainly true on
A and t M. What made the show entertaining wasn't
(43:36):
just the photo shoots. It was the drama, the personalities
the models brought to the set. But the best models
didn't always make the best reality TV. So producers had
a way of getting rid of contestants who weren't entertaining enough.
Here's hound mixer Jose Taurres.
Speaker 10 (43:53):
I've heard producers talk where they were like, Yeah, this
girl's boring, she's terrible TV. What do we want to
do shoot? You know, everything is still on the up
and up. Maybe their photo that's chosen is not the
best photo, is not their best photo.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
That's why so many of y'all's fades were getting sent home.
Early producers had the right to use creative license in
tailor and competition how they faw fit, meaning the most
talented model didn't always win. Oftentimes the person with the
best story or best TV personality did. When someone wasn't
(44:30):
delivering what the producers needed to make good TV, or
when the producers were done with their storyline, they would
pick a model's worst photo and say it was their best.
I asked ANTM creative producer Andrew Patterson about this. Was
it always the best person winning? And was it always
the worst person being sent home?
Speaker 9 (44:52):
Hena?
Speaker 7 (44:53):
Hena.
Speaker 1 (44:56):
Now I'm not saying every elimination was predetermined for the play.
Producers couldn't manipulate everything. You still had to be a
talented model in order to progress in the competition. It's
just that the talented models who also had interesting personalities
or the best stories were usually the ones who made
it to the finale. And when it was time to
(45:17):
get rid of a lackluster contestant, producers had other ways
of tipping the scales. I asked casting producer Raphael d'Orval
how that worked. He didn't want to give me an
example from A and Tom, so he used RuPaul's drag
Race to explain.
Speaker 11 (45:33):
Let's say you're a contestant on Roopol's Drug Race, right
and let's say, for what are reason you're not rising
to the occasion on the show, and you're just not
stepping up as an interesting personality on the show right now,
if you're just falling flat, and producers are freaking out,
they're like, oh God, we got to ever head this person.
(45:55):
They're bringing the whole show down. Now we know about
this person. So when you're vetting these people who listen,
let's just say, and there's always a season, whether it's
somebody who doesn't know how to sew.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
He's referring to sewing challenges. Drag Race is also a
competition reality show. Contestants are expected to perform dance, singing,
act and occasionally sew their own costumes. Every contestant has
their strengths, but inevitably there's always some queen on the
show who doesn't even know how to thread a needle.
Speaker 11 (46:27):
So if you're going on the show and you don't
know how to sew, it's going to be very difficult
for you if there's a challenge that you have to
sew not one, not two, but three different outfits, which
has happened on the show. So let's just say the
Powers that bio like, ooh, this girl's rough. She's killing us.
This is not going to work. So I'm trying to
(46:49):
get rid of Brittany. I guess our next challenge has
to be a sewing challenge. Maybe we're on episode four,
and maybe the big sewing challenge supposed to happen until
episode six was switching up the game, and now we're
making the sewing challenge episode four. So there's always ways
(47:10):
to kind of do what you need to do.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
For whatever reason, Rafael didn't want to spill the t
on A and TM. Maybe he's a Tyra Banks loyalist.
Maybe he's still under his NDA. But in case you're
having trouble deciphering his drag Race riddle, Rafael is saying
A and TM had a way of producing the results
they wanted in the competition. Producers designed the photo shoots
(47:37):
and runways. They also knew the contestants' weaknesses. So if
there was a boring model who took decent pictures but
had a horrible runway walk, surprise, surprise, that runway date
plan for week eight is happening today. The boring model
would trip over her heels and get sent home promptly
by the judges, and they didn't even have to select
her worst photo to get rid of her. Not trying
(48:00):
to make the producers sound like evil masterminds who wanted
to torture and sabotage these models, they were doing their jobs,
creating a show that was entertaining and memorable. I've said
it before and I'll say it again. Watching twelve perfectly
nice and talented models compete in intimate photoshoots and realistic
runways would have been boring. It was fun to watch
(48:23):
Britney drink and dance on tables. It's riveting to see
a bunch of scared models hanging off the side of
a seven hundred foot building. It was satisfying to see
Sharon get eliminated first. Before the contestants, it was a
different story. They knew the show would be edited, however,
most of them thought they would get a fair shake
(48:43):
in the competition, but a and TM used them like
pieces on a chessboard. There were heroes and villains, and
the producers moved them around or knocked them off the
board to fit the story they wanted to tell. Here
sound mixerj they.
Speaker 10 (48:59):
Tore top model. Honestly, a lot of those girls were
just like cogs in the machine.
Speaker 5 (49:08):
You know.
Speaker 10 (49:08):
They got looked at as there were a commodity, there
were a product. They were brought on to be part
of a TV show. If they had a good experience, great,
and if they didn't, that's a shame, you know, it's
too bad. That was the mentality.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Being a contestant on A and TM meant you might
get dangled off the side of a building, thrown in
a pool of water, or on top of a Greek salad.
You might be made to look like a drunk or
a villain. But it was supposed to all be worth
it because even if you didn't win, you got a portfolio.
(49:45):
Aspiring models often paid thousands of dollars to get professional
photos they could send out to agents. Your portfolio could
jump start your career. Here's Tyra talking to the contestants
about the power of a good portfolio.
Speaker 16 (50:00):
I booked twenty five fashion shows in Paris off of one, two,
three photos, so you have four see you have a
leg up?
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Okay, Tyra Poppins. But the point is, the promise of
the portfolio is why a lot of these women allowed
themselves to be dangled off the side of a building
or covered in live bees, because if they could look
fierce while they did it, that photo could be their
golden ticket. But after they were eliminated, a lot of
(50:28):
contestants found out their A and TM portfolio was a
glorified coffee table book. They were a joke to modeling agencies.
Here's Kenya Hill from cycle four.
Speaker 5 (50:39):
I already knew by the time it ended like this
is a TV show, but.
Speaker 9 (50:43):
I was expecting the modeling industry to embrace me with
open arms because this is America's next Top Model.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
After the show, Kenya moved to New York, ready to
take on the industry A and TM photos in hand.
Like a lot of the models I've spoken to, she
was then for it rude awakening.
Speaker 5 (51:04):
I couldn't even use my portfolio from America's Next Top
Model in my actual portfolio because the pictures from the
show were so over the top, so overly edited, overly styled,
overly made up. It was for TV. Real modeling portfolios
didn't look like how our pictures looked. The retouching was insane.
(51:25):
That is not how photos actually look in magazines.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Kenya eventually became a working model, but she had to
build her career herself. These days, she coaches new models
who are trying to break into the industry. She said
this her mission to give them more than A and
TM gave her. Before Kenya was cast on ANTM, she'd
been a fan, and she fully bought into the premise.
(51:51):
She thought A and TM was really a competition to
find and make the best model. As a teenager, I
did too, I think we all did. But once Kenya
left Top Model and launched her career, she realized the
show wasn't at all like the real modeling industry.
Speaker 9 (52:08):
The average person watching the show would the oh, yep,
that's a photo shoot, that's the modeling industry, and so
I think like the entire country took that as Yep,
this is real. This is the modeling industry through and through,
and it's just not true.
Speaker 5 (52:25):
It's just not the case. So much of it was
just TV. It was pure entertainment.
Speaker 1 (52:32):
And something America found very entertaining were racist stereotypes and
a and Tim was among the best to ever do it.
That's what we'll get into on the next episode. Thanks
for listening to the Curse of America's Next Top Model.
We really appreciate the support. We'd love for you to
really show your support by subscribing to our show on
(52:54):
Apple Podcasts and don't forget to leave us a five
star rating and review. If you love the show, tell
your group, chat, your co workers, your friends, your mama
to check us out, and if you don't, maybe keep
that one to yourself. Thanks again to all of our listeners.
The Curse of America's Next Top Model is a production
of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in
(53:16):
partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by
Nancy Glass, hosted and senior produced by me Bridget Armstrong.
Our story editor is Monique Leboard. Also produced by Ben
Fetterman and Andrea Denning. Associate producers are Alisha Key, Kristin, Melcriy,
and Curry Richmond. Consulting producers are Oliver Twist and Kate Taylor.
(53:39):
Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Audio
editing and mixing by Andrew Callaway and Matt del Vecchio.
The Curse of America's Next Top Model theme music was
composed by Oliver Bains. Music library provided by mid Music.
Special thanks to everyone we interviewed for this podcast, especially
the models for sharing their story. And For more podcasts
(54:01):
from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts. Also check out the Glass podcast
Instagram at Glass Podcasts for Curse of America's Next Top Model,
behind the scenes content and more.
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CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.