FATHER'S DAY ROUNDTABLE

Steve and Backstage Joe invite friends Anthony Hill, Kurt Coleman, and
Hilee Taylor to unpack how being a son made them a better father. This episode, we
celebrate our highs and lows, and learn how far “unqualified compliments” can take the children we raise up.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is cut to it with Steve Smith Senior at
production of The Black Effect and I Heart Radio. I'm
Steve Smith Senior and I'm ger a little John and
this is cut to it. Good do it, Good do it.
Let's get down to do it. Good do it. We
asked the questions you always want to know, but no

(00:22):
one ever asked, let's cut to it. You ain't heard
about it, then we're about to let you know. It's
all welcome in UM. This is a special one. Let's

(00:44):
be let's let's be transparent, let's be conversational, UM, you know,
obviously making sure that we honor um the circumstances of
the of the topic. And basically the topic for today
really is talking is for Father's Day. This Father's Day

(01:05):
podcast really has to do with even if you're not
a father, or you're heading into becoming a father, and
at some point we all want to be fathers. But
what and how were you impacted as a son because
you are a son before you became a father. I

(01:26):
know I was, and how that parenting and the things
that I experienced as a son is led me to
becoming a father and and in that father for me
being a dad one of the things that I noticed
what I did is a parent out of fear. I
parented out of wounds that I experienced as a young man,

(01:47):
and I believe I love my dad. I believe my
dad did the best that he was capable of doing,
but that also created some wounds. There are sometimes doing
the best you can isn't a slight. It is one
of those things where doing the best you can sometimes
it's not good enough. And I'm not saying that my

(02:09):
dad wasn't good enough, but there are some things that
I missed as adult, as a engaged father that I
am today that I know some of my disengagement led
to or was led by me being not being able
to know the difference. We got Kurt Coleman, former Carolina

(02:32):
Panther formal, the Ohio State alumni who beat Utah in
the Rose Bowl. A good friend. We got backstage Joe
Um Anthony Hill, my trainer, but also a world winning
journalists from Weston, Award winning journalists from West six Times,

(02:55):
Okay flexing Um who which I believe it's interesting, is
the way you motivate because there's times I've been in boxing.
I know I'm terrible that moment, but yet you give
me an unqualified compliment, and that keeps me going even
though I'm out of breath. It's like, let's go. He's there.
Sometimes he's like, that was terrible. To it again and

(03:17):
he like, I knew it was terrible, but the way
he's saying it is, yeah, it was bad. We saw it,
but we got another chance. So Anthony Hill great trainer journalists.
And then we got highly Taylor former Carolina Panther Chapel Hill.
And so I'll start off with one of the books
that I started reading. I've it's going on my third

(03:38):
time reading it now. It's a book called Bond of Brothers,
and it just talks about conversations. And so basically starting
off this conversation is the importance to me, to our listeners,
to the cut, to cut to the listeners, the gift

(03:59):
to the list There's real talk about being a father
and a son. Every son will become a father, but
every father was once a son. Let's talk about the
glory and a shame of fatherhood. The fathers and sons.
Because of men are talking about things that matter. I
don't believe I'm having conversations at forty at forty three

(04:24):
mm at forty four when I turned next year, when
I turned forty four, I would have lived twenty two
years on the NFL the opposite side of poverty, almost
literally down the middle of how many years I've lived
on the right side of private poverty and then now

(04:46):
on the left side of poverty. So I'm I've been
on both sides, and a lot of the programs that
are foundation my foundation does are built on the experiences
that I experienced as a kid, right, And so I'll
started off, when was the first time you received an

(05:08):
unqualified compliment? And here's what I mean by unqualified. For me,
I would never get I would never be able to
draw a picture as a young man that was really
not good picture. It wasn't a very good, really drawn picture.

(05:29):
Ten years old, I would have never got a compliment
by my folks to say, wow, look at that artist.
And because of that, I know when my son now
and my boys and my daughter, when they do something,
I'm not lying to him, but I am building them

(05:52):
up and try to build them up, even though I
missed some things when they were young, because I didn't
know that what I'm doing is showing them despite what
the world may say, there are some people at home
that love you no matter what. And so I had
a deuce draw, drew a picture, and I'm sitting in

(06:16):
my office and I am arguing with my seven year
old because he's saying, no, Daddy, I drew that. I said, no, son,
a artist drew that. He's like, no, there was no artist.
It was me said no, it's not you, Deuce. It's
an artist, a well known artist. He draws so many

(06:38):
great pictures, he does so many great things. And I
love this artist. And it's so remarkable of this drawing
that he wrote. I had to frame it. I put
in my wall because Daddy, you're so silly. It's me.
I said, no, it's artists. And that artist's name is Deuce.
And he just h lit up. He is not a

(07:06):
bona fide artist, but that day he heard his daddy
call him an artist. So I gave him an unqualified compliment,
in which built into him that he knows that when
he draws a picture, his pop believes it's the best picture.

(07:28):
And I never got that when I was a young man.
I got it when I did well. If I dropped
the pass get him out, I would be my dad
in the stags. Sometimes we have to realize that our
standard of excellence by our family and our parents our
standards in which they don't even hold themselves to. And

(07:52):
so starting off, I can't. I know my father, Yeah,
gave me compliments and deposited compliments in my emotional bank,
but I know he didn't do it well enough because

(08:14):
I can remember more of the withdrawals that he had
in my life. And so my emotional bank is overwdrawn
by thousands of dollars, and it also is bankrupt. And

(08:37):
it's not a slight on my dad. It just I
just know as a father today what is required and
the things that I've missed that I need as a son. So, Kurt,
what was the first time you experienced a compliment from
your dad? I'll say, Um, I think my dad did

(09:02):
a really good job. I think of depositing those compliments
that I needed throughout the ride. I think some of
the things that I was able to see because my dad,
um was in the the world of education, so I
spent a lot of time. My parents divorced when I

(09:23):
was five, so when I went to be with my dad,
it was a lot of one on one time I mean,
my brothers and sisters were we would always travel together,
but I always just found myself being the youngest male,
just going with my dad to wash his car, um,
going with him to coach his baseball basketball. Um, we'd

(09:44):
go in and there were a lot of times he
was telling me those things that I could do and
the things I could be and um, showing me things
that now I look back and I'm like, wow, like
you were really speaking life into my life. And it
was not until you know, you really don't have that

(10:06):
reflection until you really do have children of your own.
You are just kind of living your life thinking this
is me, but you realize the impact that he's had.
And I remember, and this this wasn't so much of
the necessary of your of your situation with Deuce, but
I remember there was one thing that he did for
me that I think I was never expecting in the

(10:28):
sense of I was actually seventeen, and I had gotten
into trouble with uh with Kirk, with the law the
law of the law. And I can't say what, but
I'll say this, um, so um, just in case. No,

(10:48):
I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. And so
what was great though, is like I said, my parents
were were divorced at the time, and so my mom
had to come pick me up. We go back home
and she's like, I'm calling your that and I think
we all understand, like you know, you know, my mom
was gonna, you know, hit you one way. But then
if if dad's coming, like there's something. And so I

(11:11):
was really mad at my mom, like I can't believe
you just called my dad and how dare you call
that other guy? So I, um, I take off and
I kind of like I'm walking around the neighborhood just
like all right, I'm just gonna wait for listening because
I already know what's about to happen. And I'm nothing,
you know, see what, see what it's about, see if
I'm a man. And so, um, he comes to the door.

(11:33):
I opened the door and he just gave me a hug.
And it really like literally I went to get ready
to fight, and he gave me a hug and he
just said, um, you know I love you. And and
in that moment, I realized the power of mercy just
as much as the power of infliction. And I know

(11:56):
what he could have done, and he showed me the mercy.
So he didn't give you truth and love. He did
give me truth and love. He did. We sat down
and talked, but he gave you what first. He gave
me a hug that we talked about that. Sorry, but
I'm you know what, I'm bringing that up because there's

(12:18):
so much masculinity or de masculinity in the world right
now for whatever reason. But we also understand that who
you are and what you are everyone has a role.
And your dad sounds like at that moment he was

(12:38):
masculine enough to say, we can talk, but let's embrace first,
which broke down where he was. You knew, you know,
you knew your father knew more than you. But it
was sounds like at that moment, before he told you

(13:00):
are talked at you or monologued, he he wanted you
to know how much he cared before he lets you
know how much he knew. That's without a doubt, I mean,
and like I said that that moment it changed my

(13:20):
perception on what it meant to be strong too. Strength
isn't always in the way that you can physically impose yourself. Um,
I think vulnerability was it was a whole realm that
you know again, we all grow grow up through different traumas.
You know, some people grew up without a certain parent.
You know, I was the divorce household, that was and

(13:41):
so some of the things that I never got or
that I never really um felt from that divorce household
was commitment. But a lot of things that I always did,
always that my dad was always around. Um But again,
I think, you know, we can always always go back
to that socialization cycle of your life of certain pinpoints
of what change your tradreactory or what is implanted to

(14:03):
you now? And then how do you kind of break
some of those cycles? So, you know, but for me
in that moment, it was his very intentional way of
being there for me when I needed him, but also
being there in a way that I never thought he
could be, you know what I mean. And that that
that's where now, so there's a point that you're realizing

(14:23):
sounds like that, even though you had did something wrong,
you already portraying that your dad was gonna come up
shorthanded a little bit. I mean, I don't know how
we all grew up, but I know that that's that's
I mean, were you're you're used to, you get you

(14:43):
do something wrong, there's a punishment, and usually that punishment
it's not a depending on what household, geographical location, how
they were parented. Also, I think ethnicity does play a role, right,

(15:04):
I'm in a I am in a interracial marriage where
my wife's from Utah, I'm from l A. We were
pairing it different. I was backhanded. They maybe said some
things to my wife that was different. Well, I know
my wife's parents spoke differently. I'll just show you the difference.

(15:30):
My wife's Uh, my dad was he's a I mean,
burly strong man. But my wife's father is the one
that taught me how to tie a tie. So, yes,
I know how to fight, but I didn't know how
to tie a tie. I didn't know how to dress,
and that's just as important than being able to fistfight, Anthony,

(15:58):
what you got. It's kind of different with my parents
because my dad comes from the south. Uh, Montgomery, Alabama
share crop And you're talking about going back in time,
and I wanted to give you a little back I
tell you about but I love that I've been in Montgomery,
Alabama and it is going back in time. Well that's

(16:20):
where everything really happened. And uh, you know, I grew
up with her dad. I didn't have to watch things
like Mississippi Burning, didn't have to go to school and
and uh pay attention in the fifth chapter of social studies.
My dad would tell me stories that, uh, which is
really teach me about life. Um, to answer your question first.
I really didn't get that many unqualified compliments coming up

(16:42):
because my dad was so old school. He was one
of those guys that was like, Hey, I want you
to do right even if nobody packed you on the back.
So who am I to give you a compliment for
something just because you're doing it? And uh, So I
really didn't get any kind of un if I had
compliments until I was in grade school. Probably my seventh

(17:03):
grade teacher, Miss Scott, gave me an unqualified compliment from
a from answering the question right then she knew I
lived in the back of the book he got to answer.
But she wanted to encourage me because she knew that
I was terrified to death of math, so she wanted
to let me know that I was smart, that I
could do it. Then I'm on the right track. Just

(17:26):
keep pushing. Now back to my dad. Now, my dad,
UH wasn't one of those people that like Kurt Um,
I didn't even hear and I love you to me,
to my mother, uh, to any of my brothers, um
and two maybe I graduated college, so it was one
of those moments like Kurt to where you know, after

(17:46):
I graduated college, were alone in my apartment. I'm thinking,
we're just gonna pack up. He's gonna ask me what's
next in life because things weren't going the way I
had playing. Uh, he told me I love you? And
what did that do? At that moment? Man? First, it
shocked me because I just stood there. I didn't even
say I love you back because it was one of

(18:07):
those things, where is this really happening? So I just
looked at him and I saw the crying. We embraced,
and it was like a real embrace, not just like that,
what's up? It wasn't aside Hume, Man, it was. It
was probably the best beer because but think about it,

(18:27):
I have to say it that way. Think about how
when I said that you kind of you kind of
went backwards. Think about it, yes, but beer to beer
means that there are two men who are embracing who
was showing love and saying right. Ultimately, what I'm really saying,

(18:47):
to the core of it is, am I good enough?
Has will my father give me approval? And he, in
this one moment, gave you something that you have been
dying for how many years prior. I didn't even realize it.

(19:08):
I didn't. I thought that's just the way I was.
I thought that's the way we were. It was an understanding.
You didn't have to tell me I love you. You
know when I go to bed. You didn't have to
say give me a hug every time I went to school.
I know you love me. I know you're gonna be
there for me. I know you cared for me. So
when he did that, it was it was it was
one of those things that it was one of those

(19:30):
welcomed things that I need in life. And I didn't
realize how much because that was just part of who
I was at shell that had developed around me just
by growing up that way in my household, because that
wasn't the way it was. And your parents were married
how many years as long as I have been alive.
I mean they never divorced some years, yeah, yeah, I

(19:53):
mean they went through ups and downs. We had a
period where I thought my dad was out of the house,
you know, but I think most of us had, you know.
But yeah, that was that was one of those things
in life that really just uh it was an awakening,
all right and I needed that and I needed ain't
it changed me for who I am today. You know,
I'm a hugger now. I love cut to It and

(20:18):
I love it even more when you download us and subscribe,
and you can follow us on social media too, Smithie,
where where at? That's at? Cut to It on Instagram?
What about Twitter? At? Cut to It? Facebook? Cut to
It featuring Steve Smith singr? What about online? And you
can follow us at cut to It podcast dot com

(20:40):
where you can buy merch and you can subscribe to
us wherever you listen to podcasts. I got all my answers, questions.
Uh yeah, I got all my questions answered. That's what
I'm here for. A brother, cut to a Podcast dot Com.
Hili Taylor. How did your father impact you by him

(21:03):
being your father? So? My father? He uh, like I said,
I still do this day have her. He passed away
a couple of years ago. Never told me he loved me,
but his actions showed me. You know what I'm saying.
It showed me that that he loved me. Um, hard worker, UM,

(21:24):
not too emotional health everything again, so by nature that
happened to me, still fighting that now, um. And just
the mentality the world owes you nothing. Anything you can
conceive in your mind, you can do. Ask cliches that
sound and our jingus genly because of that mentality. He
was a hustler. I found out some things after he
passed away that he was. Yeah, I mean that to

(21:47):
kind of tell you he had Will Smith and jazz
Jeff from a small town called Lauren Bird. I don't know,
you know, you know what that's said just ninety minutes
a fair heavy d. So he was he was, he was.
He was a hustler, you know what I mean. And
I would hear a lot of about his father. It's
how his father kicked him out of the house at
eighteen and tol him. We had to figure it out.
So now I have my mom and dad in the house,

(22:07):
sold and he telling me, hey, like the world owes
you nothing, you gotta figure it out, son, And I
did that, you know I did. How tough was that? Then?
It was tough? I mean, especially when you surround about,
you know, other people and their parents you know their
dad's an't a good job? Man, Man, that's good. You
know what I'm saying. You can do that. You know,
It's like my dad told me without telling me, when

(22:28):
he told me, I can put it in my mind.
I believe. I believe that. But in terms of I
love you son, or you know, great job. You know,
his way of compliments that you the man, You the
man I taught you with you know what I mean?
That that was his way. It was never was I
love you, you know what I mean. And the first
time I attempted to tell him I love him was
the day he dropped me off for college and he
didn't tell me back. So it reinforced that nobody owed

(22:52):
me anything, even my father. That ere everything that I
do from this point forward I had to earn. So
he on, he meant just like a lot of the guys,
same as podcast. You know, he meant very well, but
he didn't know any different. I tell you one of
the things that I hear that before we let Joe go,
that I learned by my parents, by my father no loyalty,

(23:17):
which meant no loyalty. And I'm by myself, so in
the end, I already know I'll be by myself, so
I can't really depend and count on anybody. Yeah, and
that that plagues itself infiltrates and poisons of marriage, poisons
relationships with your children because you're parenting now out of

(23:38):
fear or parenting in a way that I can't imagine.
Got four kids, and I can't imagine all four of
my kids right now, me not saying I love it.
It's tough. My seven year old right now if he

(24:01):
every time I leave a house, Hey, doll, were dapted,
you know, high five? I said, I love you. Listen
to your mama. Be a good boy. Yes, sir, I
didn't do it with all for my children, but the
last one I'm learning and doing some things differently. Where
I'm I'm telling him who loves you more than who

(24:22):
loves you more than Jesus? He knows your daddy. I
missed that with Boston. I missed that. But Boston he
knows I love him because I tell him. My little girl,
she knows I love her because I tell her leave
her messages. Hey, just let you know, Hey, Punkin love you.
My wife and my my oldest boy who trains with

(24:45):
Anthony too. We see each other we'll becoming. He'll he'll
train early now I trained later, and make sure we
dap each other up, you know, tell him, hey, I
love you. What about you, Joe? Well, I mean it's funny.
Almost everybody's go to was those words I love you.

(25:11):
As I'm sitting back here going last, Um, a lot
of you guys starting the table or friends of mine today,
and there's we've told each other we love each other.
That's something that old school folks like Anthony said, would
never do. So I say that the transition to my father.
My dad always told me he loved me, but my
dad never gave me a compliment. Talked about old school.

(25:32):
I'm fifty years old, um so my dad's eighty six now.
So going back in the day again, I knew I
was loved, but my dad was all performance based. If
he was going to give me a compliment. There's a
lot of athletes sitting around this table um backstage Joel
back in the day was was pretty good at something,
but if I pitched well, or threw a no hit

(25:55):
or did something, he would always cut me down. So
even though he was the hold on, you're a picture
of which I know, no, no, no, I'm I'm giving
context thinking about it. You're a picture. What'd you throw?
I mean, no, no? What was that? A no hitter? Multiple? No, No,
I'm not I'm no base I like so let me

(26:23):
get this right. Picture no hitter, and he's still cut you.
The scoreboard says no one hit the ball. There's not
a lot of pictures that are doing no hitters, because
a no hitter requires a lot of other people's contribution,
and and and so a no hitter is beyond just

(26:44):
throwing a whole bunch of heat. Is ball placement, understanding
the process of the each individual batter, and you not
coming in, but you starting the game, and that doesn't
happen in baseball today, and finishing the game, and baseball
could be long. Yeah, are you out there on the mount?
What could he break down when no one hit the ball?

(27:11):
It was anything that he could do to put a
knock or a chink on me. And his methodology was
again going back to people's comments. He meant, well, don't
fall in love with yourself, right, You're only as good
as your last play, You're only as good as your
last pitch. But he would carry that throughout my whole
entire childhood. Now I'm no valedictorian. I mean I got

(27:34):
enough to get by it up to play, so he
had merit there to come at me for grades. But
anything else from friendships, relationships in the you know, accolades, anything,
everybody else be tapping you up, like hey ma, congratulations,
you know you you get in the paper or whatever.
And he would never be there to say those things
to me. So as we migrated through life and we

(27:57):
all go out on our own, you go to college,
and you keep on moving, I could almost understand why
he wanted to keep me grounded. But while you're going
through that, you're like, yo, like what else can I do?
I mean, you know, you do everything which you believe
to be as close to perfect as you can do,
whatever it may be. Pick a topic, and to always

(28:18):
get that backhanded compliment, well you did pretty good, but
you know that one dude did hit it pretty far foul,
Like what you mean I mean say that? So so again,
I knew I was loved. I knew if I needed anything,
I could always go get it. Um, But I found
myself wanting and I would actually in a moment in

(28:39):
my life like I try to pursue things to do
things well, just to look over to get that at
a boy from him that I knew I was never
gonna get, but it still drove me because that was
my dad. You know, he'd give other folks compliments, he
would he would do that in front of me, so
you know, you kind of get and then just get
used to it, you know what I'm saying, Like Anthon,

(28:59):
like your your father finally said to you I love
you at the at the age of eighteen, and you
froze up because you didn't know how to react. You
didn't know what to say. And that's kind of how
I got to So no, I never got a unqualified compliment.
I didn't really get many compliments at all. It was
all negativity to drive me to go do better again intentions. Well,

(29:23):
but that's something that I never received. And I was
growing up and I ain't bringing up any felonies because
there might be some pending. So who in here? How
to the group I wanted to be like their father?
They can't see you as a podcast? Kurt raised his
hand very eloquently. I okay, So so Kurt, you want

(29:50):
to be like your father? Yeah, all right, yeah, not professionally,
but yeah, whatever, almost every other way other than his
job that he went to every day. I wanted to
be like my dad, and I am in a lot
of in a lot of ways, Kurt wanted to be
like his dad Anthony Highley. Yes, I want to be
like my dad. I wanted to be like my father

(30:10):
until I was about twelve, because emotionally, I knew there
were some things that I was starting to piece together
that I'm I was missing out on. I'm right around
that same time as well too, as a young young child, absolutely,
but as you start to formulate your own thinking and becoming,
you know, a young adult, I'm about with you. Around

(30:32):
that age, my parents were together. My parents separated and
worked together pretty much most of my uh young childhood,
and my dad used to pick me up on the
weekends and there would be times, what I remember growing up,
there was one particular time we were on seventy nine

(30:57):
an avalon Cross Street for Freemount High School and I
fell asleep Friday night. I believed the reason why my
dad didn't pick me up when I was older, or
he didn't pick me up that Friday because he didn't

(31:19):
want to wake me. But I started to realize that
it wasn't here. He didn't want to wake me, he
didn't come. And because of that, that made me start
to see and feel like, and if I'm not good enough,

(31:39):
if I'm not worth picking up on the day that
you've signed up for. Because I'm a boy, I'm I'm,
I'm a boy, I don't I don't know anything about responsibilities.
All I know is my pot was supposed to pick
me up. Ye. And I bring that up to really

(32:04):
say that for a long time, I was a horrible
father because it was based on performance. I was tough
on my kids because I didn't want them the world
to chew them up and spend them out, especially being

(32:30):
a young black man in America today. Just facts, and
so I just realized by twelve, I didn't want to
be like my father. But prior to that, I thought
my father was my he was my hero. But the

(32:56):
the part that's even crazier is h m hm. There
are sometimes when I walk down the hallways of my
home and I laid my children down and I kissed
my boys good night. There are sometimes that I wrestle
Steve Smith Singer is wrestling when he just used to

(33:16):
be Steve Smith. When I used to be a little Stevie.
I'm walking down the hall feeling overwhelmed and filled as
a father, but empty as a five gallon keg as
a son, because I know what I needed as a

(33:40):
little boy, which is a good night kiss, hey when
you wake up, that he'll be here, what we're having
for breakfast in the morning, Just that commitment. So this
is what just about. It's not putting it out there

(34:01):
like to to shame my dad, but it's more to
put it out there to say the effects as a son,
what you learn or not learn with their strength and weaknesses,
how they play a role in impacting you as a man.
Let me ask you, is I mean because we you

(34:24):
can always learn just as much from a situation of
what you were given, just as much as you weren't given.
Are you hyper sensitive as a father now to all
those things that hyper sensitive overall? Just calling a spade
a spade. But you know what I'm saying, like, because yeah,
I I sometimes I make a I make a mole

(34:48):
hill into a mountain. Rights it's hard sometimes for my
wife back in the day, really, um, I got man
would be knocking knockout dragouts at the soccer game because
he could you know, somebody didn't push themselves, push themselves
because I know what it takes. So it's uh yeah,

(35:16):
very hypersensitive. Almost ten steps ahead. I'm thinking about, like
what kind of man it's gonna be, what kind of
what kind of daughter? My daughter, what kind of wife
will she be? Bro? Just chill dog, you know, let
them let him watch bubble guppies. That's not the way
we came. And and and and I'm saying, to some

(35:39):
degree that was a strength, but also I believe it's
a weakness because it allows us not to be present
in the moment. We're always thinking about when they're twenty one.
When they're ten, we're thinking about when they're about them
doing right at when they're seven, when they're three, they're
still in pull ups. They can't hold that p overnight.

(36:02):
You over there talking about hold a job. Yeah, I
mean your kids are a little bit older than my
seventeen and seven, and I mean I think you know
with my kids, my four kids, it's it's the same
thing obviously. And I look to you sometimes as how

(36:23):
how how do we do it? Before? I mean, and
defense that's real though, um, but then I look at
it at the same time, so to your point of
being present in the moment. And sometimes what I'm trying
to do is let them. I tell my oldest I say,

(36:44):
all right, this is your journey. All right, I'm gonna
help support whatever you want to do within your journey.
At the same time, if she says that she wants
to do something, though, do you, as a father holder
accountable to her own word? You see what I'm saying,
because you tell me that's the that's the part, that's
the rough pardon. So what I have to do is

(37:05):
what I'm learning to do, is I let my wife lead,
and letting your wife lead. Some people can say, oh,
you know, she's running the house. No, we're running the
house together. But there are some things that my wife
is excellent at that I'm a horrible wife at. And
there are some things that my wife is a horrible
husband at because that's not her role in that in

(37:28):
that particular subject, like my wife's role in our house.
She homeschools our son. I'm not the principal. I support
because that's she's a giver, she's a server. So she's
educating our seven year old son. He's already tested, he's
above where she is, where where he needs to be?

(37:51):
Like he's he's in the second grade, but he has
a the reading level and some of the other stuff
as a fourth grader. And then there are some other
things he's a third grader, chucks. But what I'm doing
and attempting to do is ask my wife, especially with

(38:13):
our daughter, what what have you what did you need
from your father when you were her age? And she
tells me love and from a guy who was paring
it out of I mean, we're all old school, my mom,
my parents, parents, out of figure. I got my ass
with a lot. I know that's a shocker. I got
a lot of but whippers, and so I'm not used.

(38:39):
I am conditioned for punishment. I know how to receive punishment.
You know what I struggle with love compliments, that's true

(39:00):
statement about you and being close to you. Um, but
you continue to get better at that. And one thing
you do, Comma do is you always make sure you
give your children, all four of them a comment. A

(39:21):
gotta handle it the right way. I've got to not
do it this way because I know what happened to
me and I don't want to negatively. Oh I've done
I've had enough mess ups, I know anything. We can't
be the bull in the China closet. Well, and I
go back to Kurt's original namement because it triggered something
my mind is, are you hyper sensitive about that? Um?

(39:41):
I'm looking around the table at four successful men um
parenting our father. I can't look at myself, but but
thank you, I appreciate it. Kurt threw up a five everybody.
He's on a pot just in case. But I look
around the table, norma, and we're all success full man.
So whether our parenting was good, bad, or in different,

(40:04):
we've we've taken something from that and we make sure
that we lead in ways our parents didn't, but also
the ways that they did lead us. Well, um, we
all want to take that and roll it into into
our children. You know. Highly he's a a new dad
over here, so I know he's just now getting the
ball rolling on. I said, best right now? How well,

(40:27):
that's the best life, you know? Why wipe your butt,
stick a pacifier in your mouth, stick a bottle in
your mouth. What's the baby girl's name? Oh yeah, I forgot.
I just thought i'd throw my daughter some credit at that,
since it's named after a my it's not but I
used that but what was? But think about it. The

(40:47):
most informative informative years four childs in the first five
okay to that point too, and when your child was
first born, and what is the most important thing for
that child to have? Skin time? Yeah, absolutely, chest to
chest time. And as adult I believe in that too,

(41:12):
beard to bear. But but also and then as as
you're going through this too, and um, I know everyone's
pushing for the what's the crying out method and all
that and to get them to sleep don't work, but
well it works for some. But you'll see like a

(41:32):
lot of times people are the scientists are saying that
it's so important though, like you're like my wife, she knew,
like the baby needed to sleep with us. Then the
baby's sleeping next to us. It's not just cried out
and because psychologically that baby is being informed and it
wants to feel what love it's it's it literally happens

(41:56):
from the moment that they're born and they and they
feel that impression. And that's why I loved um. You know,
when my kids were born, I didn't take the truth
what we would call night shift. Um, you know, I
would stay awake as long as I couldn't let my
wife get three or four hours. But at that time,
I'm staying away and we're just having like that was

(42:17):
the best time of my life, just um, catching up
on Shark Tank and all that. But I mean it was.
It was a really important time and I cherished those moments.
So you're still in that moment. My best snaps, some
of the best snaps. Who's with your child on your chest?
Good do it? Good do it. Let's getting down to
do it? Good do it? Hey, Gerard, why did you

(42:41):
get that T shirt? You mean this thing? Oh yes,
I got it from cut to a podcast dot com
where we have exclusive merchandise. Shout out to our guys
at seven or four shot. But yeah, you can go on,
buy you a T shirt, subscribe to us wherever you
listen to podcasts. And then you start off. Man, Um,
what did your father teach you that you carry on? Now?

(43:05):
That's your strength, hard work, and in Layman's terms, just
a sense of responsibility for everything that I do. Everything
that comes from something that I do. Um, I always
have that and that definitely comes from him. Um. Yeah,

(43:26):
I mean I don't know how to elaborate more on
uther than they're just saying. You know, just that sense
of responsibility just comes from my dad, and I recognize
it when when it comes about. Maybe it comes from work,
maybe it comes from a personal life. Um, but I'm like, man,
that's my dad, and it's my dad all the way
right there, and let me let me change up a
little bit, me cross over, But all comes back to

(43:47):
that same base shot and my dad talk. You know.
So yeah, honey, Yeah, just basically can control what I
can control. So on every situation, there's something I want
to do out here in the back of my head,
like figure it out, you know. You know it's interesting
about that. That's a great philosophy, the truth. We can't

(44:11):
control anything. Half of this world is out of our control.
We can get in the car, drive home, but we
actually have zero control of if we get an accident.
All we can control is hitting the gas, break, turn
it on, turning right, left, reverse, neutral. But yeah, we're

(44:35):
get in the car thinking that we're in total control. Yeah,
if you're in a car, you can be on the
road with a hundred cars and because you're driving right,
you think you are in control. But if if one
out of those ninety nine come up in your lane
and t b on you. It ain't nothing you can
do about it but brace yourself. Yeah. So it's like

(44:59):
my dad, he was huge on that and then this
big thing was covered or what else? Oh yeah, that's
we that's way too much. I say that cover though, Yeah,
that we call that plane by not playing being what
people think, but plan bes and like, well, I know
this is gonna happen, and that's gonna happen, so let's
be ready for this. The mental gymnastics. Oh that's so

(45:24):
exhaust Oh my gosh. You know how many times I
was cutting my sixth in year career that every training camp, man,
they're gonna see this or that. Let it go. I mean,
you guys are great because what I what I see
and I know from not just you guys, is that
you have to be so much more creative as a
parent as our parents were, especially as fathers, because your

(45:49):
dad because just yell at you are you. Your dad
can just give you a look. Oh, they can just
say go to your room. When they can give you
a spanking. None of those things happen nowadays. You have
to come up with weaty ways of doing things. You
have to come up with smart and less intimidating ways
of punishing your kid are teaching him or her a lesson.
So that's one of the things that I just noticing

(46:12):
being a parent now compared to what it was like
for most of our most of the man, Oh, it
was tough. Beat your neighbor's parents. I got beat by
my neighbor's dad. Your neighbors, the neighbor parents gave your buhop. Yeah,
and then you got I didn't even tell him because
then I was going to get another one. But do
you remember you get dropped and they say, hey, take

(46:34):
care of that. Whatever happens as your house, And it's like,
oh no, you just took it. You didn't even ask why,
You just walking into it. Like we get whooped today
and then you walked outside and you played. I wasn't
walking outside after whooping sometime, ginger, what woldn't have beating?

(46:57):
I remember my grandpa gave me a whooping in the
backyard because he thought I said something to our neighbor Angel.
And what's interesting is Angel's son now owns the house
next door to my grandparents old house that they you
know what they've passed on and I don't even say
anything to Angel, but I took a hell no apology.

(47:21):
He was covering the whatever. What was um My thing
that I used today is um my dad would always
tell me people will show you who they are eventually.
Something you can't keep up that facade that your buddies

(47:43):
or your friends they're they're nice. But eventually people will
show you who they are. So I've took taking that
through my whole entire life. Is just when you look
at people, taking at face value, race, age, gender, whatever
you want to call it, They're always going to show
you who they are, whether it's good, bad, or in
different um So today, you know, I take that with me.

(48:05):
I mean, you know, we travel around, we meet a
lot of people, and you know, you can tell in
the first three or four or five minutes sometimes whether
someone is someone you want to rock with or not.
Sometimes it takes weeks, months, heck even years, depending upon situations.
Right when certain situations arise, that person may you know,
do a detour and turn into that individual that yep,

(48:25):
I gotta keep my eye on him. So that's just
one of those things that I've always taken throughout my life. Yeah,
I would say, um, a couple of things, just my
my dad's work ethic. Um. Like I said, it was
just one of the I cherished the weekends when I
got to go spend time with my dad. We would um.
He was a teacher, principal, coach, but also as a

(48:46):
um you know, as a side hustle. He was a landscaper.
So as those are side hustle and main hustle, all
people driven and hard work that requires a lot of
the people's input and decision making. As a principal and
then obviously as a landscape, landscape is tough and to

(49:07):
and and that was one of those things where I
would start with him. First thing in the morning, I
tapped out about two o'clock, Like, it's I'm done the
first thing in the morning. You tap out at two o'clock,
the first thing in the morning til two that's that's
that sounds good. But my dad would go until the

(49:28):
night like and then I would look at him like,
how are you doing that? And in his philosophy was
until the work is done. Um. And that's just kind
of how I've been wired now. UM. And it's probably
it's good and bad because I get so task oriented
sometimes like I lose track of everything else that I

(49:49):
need to be doing. But that was the thing that
I was tasking myself. So, um, that's one thing. And
then UM, through his three different cancers and tumors and
and all the other miscellaneous things that he said, UM,
it was just don't have a bad day, have a
bad moment. And so when I go through things throughout
the day, I try not to use that particular thing
and let it just ravel into other things and um,

(50:11):
you know, and so I kind of took his manitra
and said, have a bad day, have a bad day tomorrow.
And so I would always try to just say, you know,
there's gonna be something good that's come out. I may
not see it at this moment, but usually when you know,
when you reflect on things, there's so many good things
that can come out of that that bad moment, that
bad situation. Um, but you have to give it life.

(50:32):
You have to give us some room to breathe, um
and to speak life into other things. So those things, UM,
you know, you could look, I could always point to
things where you know, like I said, you know, one
thing that you know I'm very high per sensitive about
is um because he you know that my parents divorced
when I was five. You know, I'm very hyper sensitive
about the sanctity of my marriage and and how do

(50:54):
I pour into my marriage? Um? Because I find it
very easy, um, you know, to be a be a father. UM.
I love being at all my kids events and coaching
and doing this and that, and UM, I feel like
I'm providing, you know, because I'm working these jobs and
doing all these things. So that feels But then you know,

(51:15):
you get so caught off in that, and you're like,
am I really taking care of my marriage and my wife?
And and am I pouring into her and I lifting
her up and my letting her guarden grow into what
it needs to be that she can be the best
that she needs to be for our for our family.
So that's something that I'm you know, and I think
some of the things that may I may have missed,

(51:36):
you know as a child growing up, of how what
does that? What does that look like? Um? At all times?
And so that that's something that I'm learning. UM. And
I think I'm a process, not a perfection. I'm trying
to continue to learn. And I can easily go into
a situation where I've messed up and I've did something wrong,
I left something now whatever, and I can humbly like

(51:58):
go to and say, look, you know, just tell me
what I need to do or what is it that
I could have done, Like I'm I'm always trying to
do that. I'm not I can't read your mind, but
I'm willing to listen. I'm willing to listen. And so
we just had that That's something that I would say
for myself that I want to continue to work on.
I think, um, one of the biggest things that I think.

(52:21):
You know, we talked about strengths, and as athletes, you
also got to talk about the weaknesses. I think something
that I've had to battle with. It as a weakness
that my father has given me. Us is early on
in my marriage, early on in in being a young man,

(52:42):
early on in in parenting. Silence that's sometimes avoiding in
the silence actually is a destroyer that my dad really
didn't talk about a lot of things, didn't really share,
never really saw vulnerable and so you know, and then

(53:04):
that silence was it does and for me, I actually
made a list, um m hmmm, for me, Uh, what
a silence do m mm hmm. So one of the

(53:28):
things that when I'm sitting in silence, I figured out
that's where a lot of fears built up. Well, I
can allow the unknown to just it could be a
forty mile train of concerns that are allowed to just faster, worry, hurt, loneliness.

(53:58):
Because I think anybody trying to develop or improve in anything,
you need three things. Are three allies to help you develop.
Need someone to affirm you, someone to ask you the
right questions so you can achieve the things that you're

(54:20):
looking for. And I think silence is a you know,
we're talking about where we are today and mental health.
Silence is right now is one of the It's a
deadly killer. It's leading people to sit in silence of suicide,
sitting silence of opioid addiction, divorce. I think the pandemic

(54:45):
was one of the worst times for some people, but
some for other people. It's a time to connect sometimes
to root out. We talked about inflation of the economy
and there was an inflation or deficit in homes prior
to the pandemic, a lack of connectivity. It was mass Oh, yeah,

(55:08):
it was right. Yeah. I think as men, it's hard
for us to be vulnerable. That's how we're wired. Um.
So as we get older again, the silence pieces, you know,
going back to your question, is my father's weaknesses I

(55:31):
never really knew because he wasn't a good communicator. Um.
Other than the you know, like I said earlier and
I love you, there was no sit down conversation how
was your day, what's bothering you? How's it going? Which
I never really had that in my life as a man.
Probably within the last you know, three or four years,
was you know, some of my close friends to where man,

(55:52):
it's okay to be hurting, you know, it's okay to
not know the answer, whether it's financially, relationship, whatever it is.
So yeah, I took that my whole life. I'm good.
You know how many times people ask how you doing,
ma'am good when maybe you really aren't. Um. So, yeah,
that was a weakness that I never knew my dad
had any because it never reared its head, so I

(56:13):
was never had the ability to talk about it. So
it's just something that I've just you know, you start
putting the pieces together as you get older, and uh,
those pieces starting to come together. I think it's important.
I mean, like you said, is you know whether it's
I think with with men um, you know, how do
we how do we become more vulnerable with each other

(56:36):
to each other? I think something that I always enjoyed,
you know, dependent upon the team in the year, but
typically in a locker room setting, you would have a
few guys that you would just sit down and you're
you're really talking about I mean, you're talking about a
lot of stuff, but sometimes you're really talking about stuff
that needs to be talked about. You need to get
it off your chest, off your mind, whatever it is.

(56:58):
And I know when I was younger, you know, you
had your older guys that you could go to um,
but you knew who that was. And sometimes now that
you know, I know that since I've been removed, it's
I still have certain people that I can go to,
and you need people. I think that you can be
vulnerable at least even ask the question like but too

(57:19):
often or not? Like we we asked each other, you know, man,
how you doing good? Like? But are we giving that
that guy that that's like? Are we giving you the time?
Like when we ask the question are you're doing? Are
we allowing the time for you to actually say how
are you and give it seriously. We're not We're asking

(57:42):
and passing. Yeah, it's it's not a genuine like how
are you doing? Because you really some people really don't care.
They're just programmed to ask it so they don't come
across rude. I think we need to come with like
a better way of doing that, because, honestly, I think
to your point though, I think there should be like
if you if I have time to like actually like

(58:02):
catch up, like let's catch up, and I'm here to
Like I said, I try to listen and not really
impart my ideology on you, but I want to listen
to what you have to say, um, and then like
whatever response from that, let's do that. But we I
think it's it's we have to we we are filled,
our lives were busy and not purpose. And how do

(58:26):
we like find that purpose that we can literally pour
into other people and allow them. There's just so much
and I think, you know, I go back because we
all too many, too many of us already know what
other people need. I think we we think, yeah, oh,

(58:47):
I know what you need. Right. We talked about just
the way the government said, well I know what I
know what pop black folks need. We don't. We're not
asking our friends, asking people beyond the weather, like you're
asking asking someone how do you really feel? Or what
do you need? Mhmm. Do you want to know something?

(59:13):
Ask someone of significance? How can I show up for
you today? First of all, they I'm like, oh you okay,
then say then ask them how they gonna show up?
But I've asked my wife's I've asked my wife in
the last year, how can I show up for her today?

(59:34):
But I have missed twenty years of asking her how
can I show up for her today? But what does
she need from me? So I know I'm falling short
as a husband, so I damn near no. And I'm
missing an opportunity to be transparent with my boys and
my daughter. So I'm trying to take that opportunity now

(59:56):
to be intentional. And she's usually pretty honest with you
when you say how can I Sometimes she's like, I
don't know, that's a great question, And another time she
was like, just be gentle. I got you right. That's
what she needs. That's that's what she needs, and you're
not doing what you think she needs. Correct. Yeah, I

(01:00:18):
like that. It's tough though, because sometimes sometimes you'll get
asked you like, oh, because just it's an answer that
says that you haven't shown up for her. We're shown
up for them. Good do it, Good do it. Let's
getting down to do it. Good do it man. A

(01:00:42):
couple of years ago I did an intensive where I
went to actually flew to Tennessee, staying in the hotel
with my counselor for two days, and we did this
thing called a trauma egg. And then the trauma egg,
you you write all the feelings you brought out your life,
you know, insecurity, hurt, all that stuff. And then we

(01:01:05):
sat for two days and just kind of went through everything.
And then he put two chairs up, the chair of
my mom and my father talked to them, and then
put a chair of my grandfather and grandmother and talked
to them. It was pretty interesting to go back and
you start to relive your life. And one of the

(01:01:26):
biggest things that I know that I struggle with you.
Right again, this isn't this isn't to be mean, but
it is to be transparent. I struggle with my father
to day, not because he did anything wrong. I know
as a son what I was missing because I see

(01:01:51):
that this is a safe enough place for my children
and tell me what I'm missing, what they miss, order
what they need from me. When you go and do
that and m it's kind of like, how do you
The first step is when you went to go to

(01:02:11):
Tennessee for two days? Right? Yeah, it's two days? I
mean how And I say this because again it's kind
of like the the stronghold I think that men have
had is how do you be vulnerable with your own
self to allow yourself It's I don't know if that
makes sense, but yeah, I mean, how do I be
truthful to myself? I'm because we don't think. I'm trying. Like,

(01:02:36):
as you're talking, I'm thinking to myself like could I
do could I? I know I could show up, but
could I do it and be truthful about it all?
Because that's why you have to go out. I went
offside out of the state so we can we could
sit there and kind of we we walked and talked
and and just be able to not be on right.

(01:02:57):
Steve Smith said, you the football player did not go
of Tennessee. Steve Smith, the man, the son, the father,
the husband, and nephew went to the intens of it
and then it peeled back some things and it was exhausting,
not exhausting, and like exhausting is physically and mentally, Like

(01:03:19):
I had no appetite because reliving some things that I
didn't even know we're there that affected me on why
I responded this way to that person this time in
this situation, like we have to get beyond talking about sports,

(01:03:44):
course talking about the weather and really start talking about
things that are tangible, textual that actually will improve the
real things that we can control wrong, which is ourselves.

(01:04:06):
Did you ever read the book from Jason Wilson, the
one you're talking about that we were talking about last
I read about halfway through and then I had to stop.
And I've been backtracking on you know, Bond of Brothers
like this, Yeah, you about that book about ten Am.
I'm just three dep just because of just all the
stuff that's going on. I mean, but it you know what,

(01:04:30):
we talked about, all this stuff, and I'm gonna check
out that book Band of Brothers, But I mean, when
you know, I'm not sure if you guys are familiar
with Jason Wilson out of Detroit, UM. He has two books,
Cry Like a Man and then Battle Cry, which is
the sequel to it. But it's it's it's a lot.
It's allowing yourself. Like we talked about, you know, what

(01:04:53):
is it like to become a man? I think he
gave it an analogy one time of m all right,
let's say you're at the house. No one's there right now,
and so you got all your chores whatever you felt
like you need to get done. And then you're laying
on the couch right and you may may have sports on,
it doesn't matter, and you know he started doze off.

(01:05:13):
And then you hear that door, whether it's the garage
door or something, and you pop up and you act
like you're doing something like you and it's like that
it's the nature of like do you give your like
the vulnerability of like I needed to rest, but like
as a man, it's like that productivity of you have
to constantly like like I told you one of the

(01:05:35):
things that like it was until the job is done.
But it's and I've I've tried a doze off and
then I hear I'm doing something like just so she
sees me like because as if I wasn't doing anything
like um, But it's it's a phenomenal book. If you
guys have and I'm interested. You're not a father, are

(01:05:56):
you not? That you know all? You're not a father,
so why are you on here what I You are
a son? And I think it's interesting as a as
a hearing a guy talk about how you had a
great relationship with your folks, how they built in instilled,

(01:06:17):
hard working you. Because I know how you do your business.
But yeah, you you coach and training boxing where people
are walking out feeling like they can box until they
come in the next session and they sparre with you
and they really nope the game box. How do you

(01:06:41):
How is your coaching style different from your dad's parenting
style because I can see your polar opposite and it
sounds intentional. Now now I can connect the dots on why. Wow,
that's a great question. Um, that's a great question. I

(01:07:03):
think that I can say I can tell you how
they're similar before I can tell you how they differ. Um,
just with that encouragement, you know, my dad would say
go cut the grass. Um. I could be midway through
it and he can just look at me and see
that I needed a little something to keep going as
I wanted to leave or stop. It's uh, just knowing

(01:07:26):
when they say something, when the when the press a button,
then encourage And that's kind of translated through my coaching,
Like I can look at somebody and tell when they're
tired and when they don't understand something, press a button
or you understanding that right? Or hit him right here
or you understanding that right. So it's just it's just
kind of translating what's really being said without communication and

(01:07:48):
being able to do the same thing to respond or
to reply to what's being said and not said. So
that's basically how I do my coaching through business. Uh
you know, I can just see what needs to be
said and uplift you or encourage you or teach you. Um.
So that's pretty much the same thing that that my

(01:08:09):
dad did through work, you know, something like cutting grass.
I like it. So I'm gonna tell a quick story
and I'm gonna go to Holly to you highly on
the next question. M. I don't know if this is true,
but I heard it, and I can't remember which book
I read it in, but it's a story back in

(01:08:32):
historical times and villages, there was a ceremony and then
that ceremony you were not allowed to get a name
in the village until you were able to slay a
lion or a jaguar cat and the you know, this
is old times. And if you did not, you go

(01:08:55):
through the ceremony. But if you are not able to
get a name, you had no value in the village.
You are not allowed to marry because you had no name.
You're not allowed to live on your own until you
accomplish this. Once you slay that object, that lion, then

(01:09:20):
they had a ceremony which you earned your name. You
were given a name, which you mean you were allowed
to marry. And by being allowed to marry, you were
able to have your own hut, contribute farm, contribute to
the community, which means you you were part of the community.

(01:09:41):
So my question at that time they learned and had
a ceremony for manhood here in the States. For me
growing up as a kid, I don't know it would
like to be a man. I thought having sex was

(01:10:03):
man being a man, but actually it's not. It's the
most laziest, easiest thing to do out of manhood. So
highly when what can you relate or you and if

(01:10:24):
you can't be honest to say that you have ceremony.
But what would you relate to what that what you've
done that signifies you were a man? Shoot August six,
the day my daughter was born, by far, just because

(01:10:45):
I had a moment where she was that was about
to start delivering her. And I've never had that film before.
Like I got light headed there was like she's like baby,
so yeah. But then after that I snapped back and
just I think that's the transition, right theoris, I go
from passing out to Okay, come on, watch your daughter

(01:11:05):
get born, looking at the placenta, looking at all the blood,
like not even worried about it. Come on, baby, push
push push, and then seeing my baby wearing waiting where
and then hold on my chair for me. I became
a man probably about a year and a half ago,
probably forty two, forty three years old. Oh yeah, forty two.

(01:11:31):
What was it to happen? M hm, discovering where my
faults were? Anthony? We wanted you want us to come
back to you? Yeah, because I mean that's deep right there.
Why don't you talk more about because that's that's actually

(01:11:53):
kind of interesting, Um that you said that, So I
would like to hear more of what you mean. So
I can get a better understanding of that, sitting sitting down,
understanding where I didn't show up for my wife, sitting
down understanding where I didn't show up for my for
my sons, for my children. Provider, yes, but emotionally provider deficit.

(01:12:27):
I can tell you how many times aren't the work,
I mean paychecks I got. I still, you know, I
still have all of my contracts from the league in
my little drawer to show you know, hey, I did it,
But I don't have million dollar contracts with my family
to say, look what I did. Emotionally. Now, I'm making
it up and I'm trying to and I'm and I'm

(01:12:48):
not doing it with an end goal, but I'm doing
it with the purpose of saying allowing them to see that,
hopefully that they've realized that I would do anything for
them at my own expense instead of I would try
to get whatever I need financially or or social status

(01:13:16):
at their expense. Yeah. I don't think I've ever had
I don't think I've had a ceremonial moment. I think
I think my my life is the backup a little bit.
I'm not married, I don't have any kids. Um, both
of my parents have passed away. My dad passed away

(01:13:36):
since we're talking about follows in two thousand nineteen. Uh So,
to be honest with you, everything I did in life,
from elementary school up until being an adult and getting
my first job was to make my parents proud. It
wasn't because I needed to get a paycheck, wasn't too
justify college degree. Um. It was to make that phone

(01:14:00):
call or tell my dad, Hey, guess what happened, Guess what.
Guess who I met today, Guess who I talked to.
Guess our interview, Guess what I'm going next week. Uh.
Just that justification. And I don't have any kids, and
I battle with that sometimes because sometimes I feel like,
just like my dad, I'm always working to try to

(01:14:20):
not think about reality. Did not think about the things
that are hurting me when I sit down and actually
think about those things, because I don't have that chiliad anymore.
I don't have that barometer to try to reach anymore.
I don't have that child to try to bring up.
So when I'm coaching, UH, when I'm talking to friends, UM,

(01:14:41):
when I'm dealing with people that are going through something,
I try to be my father two them um and
and at the same time, I don't have that ceremonial
moment or that person that's the father to me. And
even even through these years, I have not had that
father because my father is gone and we've always had

(01:15:03):
that understanding which was either real or not real, but
it wasn't satisfying emotionally. Uh So, it's just always just working, working,
always helping other people, always just kind of being an
actor like Robin Williams. Did you ever really know who
Robin Williams was? Because he was always that character every
time you saw him in front of the camera. So

(01:15:25):
that's that's kind of subliminally what I'm what I'm dealing with,
um and just hearing your set just the way you
put it, the ceremonial moment, I never had that ceremonial moment.
But I can tell you and this Sarah, if there's
a ceremony, ultimately it's a ceremony as a man for

(01:15:46):
me is financially wealthy, emotionally how it's poor. That's I
would say probably the last twenty years of my of

(01:16:06):
of my relationships, friendships, marriage, not because my wife wasn't
doing she was supposed to because she was she is
it's more of what I was failing to see inside myself,
and she was a reflection of what I was lacking

(01:16:29):
to step up and be present emotionally in the house.
You're looking at me, you want me to go. I
was waiting for your um. So my my ceremonial moment

(01:16:52):
was a little later in life as well too, not
as late as as yours, Steve, But from an age perspective,
I'm older than you. Man, we got so It's why
I got my nickname Pooky. And I'm just playing so um,
you know, going going through life and always being performance
space because that's what was instilled in me by my dad.
If I wasn't doing the best, even though you're still

(01:17:14):
getting knocked down, it it's it's just creating situations where
you can strive and succeed. So playing sports, we all,
we were all the performances you perform or you ain't
getting that paycheck. We all we all know that, Um,
even if the team fails, you know a lot of
times if you perform well, you still get that paycheck
or you get that contract extension. So playing sports, going

(01:17:35):
into my business life, train everybody, Kurt made a train
signal with his hands. So going to the business life,
I always work for an organization, so the buck always
stopped with them. You know, if I was working for
a big company, I mean, even if I've screwed up, Hey,
they you know, they still getting paid. So I'm gonna
get paid. On two thousand sixteen, and I decided to

(01:17:58):
step out on my own. Now I'm the buck where
it stops. And to talk about being a man when
it's not guaranteed you're getting a paycheck, it's not guaranteed
you're taking care of your family, is not guaranteed you
gonna have food on the table if you don't grind
and get after it. So I knew at that point
in time, like, yo, I need to you know, success
is what I make it. I just can't sit back
and and not do anything, you know. I transition quick story,

(01:18:21):
and some of y'all know that. But um, when I
left the organization I was with, I made a joke.
I said I could walk around this building for two
weeks and do absolutely nothing and nobody would know. So
for almost two weeks, I would literally walk around this building.
I would knock on people's doors when there was a
bunch of people around I peecked my head and go, yo, Highly,
I took care of that for you and walk off

(01:18:44):
realistic when so, of course Highly did. Wasn't gonna ask
me everybody else like yo, Joe's doing stuff right, Hey,
hey Anthony, I gotta don't worry about you. I'll let
you know what happened, and walk out of the room.
So I did that for two weeks and I still
got paid. And it was a running joke like how
long can I do this? Because I had already transitioned out.
I knew I was transitioned out. When you're on your own,
you can't do that right. You can't look at yourself

(01:19:05):
and go, I took care of that thing for you,
because then when that direct deposit goes in, it is short.
So talking about being a man, it's funny. Steve said,
there's the financial, the emotional. There's there. There's so many things,
but one always affects the other. Financially, if you're struggling struggling,
your emotional side is going to be a wreck too,
because we're not admitting we can't make that mortgage payment. Right.

(01:19:27):
And so when someone asked me how I'm doing, Oh,
I'm good, knowing that I'm not good. So they play
off of each other and getting that balance, and you know,
I looked to my right and my friend. It's a
successful career in the NFL financially now, you know, it's
it's well documented. Speaking out of class, some of the
interviews he's done from could he have done a better job,

(01:19:50):
you know, enjoying the time? You know, I mean you
might not have been the same player. I know there's
a lot of moving pieces there, but just looking at that,
even in the in the thralls of of everything, saying, um,
there was that emotional in that relationship side that you know,
you weren't there for that at that time. So that
was a good word. You know, I want to see
if you I'm gonna looking up later to see if

(01:20:11):
you're using I believe, I am, I believe I am.
I almost got that. I almost got a degree. I
was close, but academic fraud different podcasts, let that go.
But no, So that's what it really was, just going
out of my own and saying, hey, I'm gonna bet
on myself and I'm gonna take this company and make
it successful, which in turn is gonna you know, make

(01:20:31):
my family and friends success. Hopefully. Yeah, I mean I
would say, I mean there's a couple of things I
think that played into my least. Well, I guess what
I deemed what I felt like was masculine. And my
moment was I think once um, I went to college,

(01:20:55):
so obviously before I got to college, I had that
moment with my dad and that was I felt like
one of the veils that needed to come down to
my eyes of what is a masculine man? Veils A
good word, I mean interrupt, but that what you used
all so I'm trying to um. So that was something
that I that I you know, I was like, okay,

(01:21:15):
so that's something that I need to be able to
be um and have within me. Um. So then, because
it was three weeks into my spring practice at Ohio State,
I graduated high school early slight flash, smart guy, and
I'm just I mean, I know we got six six,
so I'm just trying to they graduate a little early

(01:21:37):
and um almost graduating late. And then I made a
routine tackle but I had paralyzed one of my teammates
and that was a moment of again, can I be
vulnerable with myself and allow what really needs to be
happening right now? Is I know he's physically, um who

(01:22:00):
was a good friend of mine, Tyson Gentry Now, Um,
he's physically going through it. But emotionally, I was wrestling
with myself, um, you know at at and so that
was something that you know, I had to deal with myself,
and that was a part of that process. Later on,
right before we went into my freshman year of camp, UM,

(01:22:22):
I had given my life to Christ. And and so
I think once I started to learn again I've seen
my my dad be my dad and be a father
and be be a male in this in this society,
when I had to deal with um, a really trauma
traumatic experience in my life, and then when I was

(01:22:44):
able to give myself and look at what a father
actually truly is, and I started to read the word
of what it's like to be a son. And then
you read the tale of Jesus talking about the Father
and the two sons, and and then the more you
read about that, and how do I incorporate, you know,

(01:23:06):
what my God is to me and how do I
do that? And how do I replicate you know, who
he is in my life to give to other people.
I realized at around I would probably say that nineteen
year old time of what it's like to be masking
and now did I mess up? Without question? I messed
up when I was young. And then I think that
final kind of that loophole that kind of tied everything

(01:23:29):
together was I think the birth of my first daughter. Um,
it really was a moment of you have to die
to your old self and give yourself away in in
in the sacrificial way to um, to your friends, to
your family, to your loved ones. And it's not that
I'm thinking of myself any less, but it's like that

(01:23:51):
is that sacrificial selflessness. But you gotta you gotta also
know yourself. There's you know, do you you have to
know yourself because there are something to say to say
that you know, you gotta die to yourself that oh wait,
part of you though, never dies right in that transformation,

(01:24:12):
because you aren't really being who you are like to
the core of it, as they say Adam and Eve,
like we're all sinful nature to the core of it,
we're all selfish and act like we're not would be
fooling ourselves right, so that we can't necessarily completely be

(01:24:33):
unauthentic in ourselves like I don't want to have peanut
butter right because I don't want my significant other to
feel a certain way, because I actually like a great example.
For the longest time, my wife used to cook pork jobs. Bro,
probably for the like the first five years of our marriage.

(01:24:56):
I never said anything about pork jobs. But pork chops
were a trigger because my mom used to make liver
and fried like pork chops to make me believe it
was pork chops. And one day I was sitting at
the kitchen table and I got a nose like a
hound dog. I sip. It looked like pork child, but

(01:25:16):
this romans coming off like a taste, a smell that
out my palette, my register, my process system was like, uh, incomplete, incomplete,
this is not pork chops. No, it was liver. I said.
Before I can say something, my mom said, eat it, bro.

(01:25:41):
I pushed that pork chops. He said, you are not
leaving the table until you eat this food. I pushed
that food away from the away from in my proximity
to eat so I can lay my head on the

(01:26:05):
table to go to sleep. I did not eat. My
mom woke me up by slapping the mess out of
slapping me in the back of the head, go to sleep.
I went to bed. I would have been hungry. M hmm.
What's the purpose of the story. Because of how I

(01:26:25):
would what I experienced as a young man made me
so uncomfortable that I wasn't willing to tell my wife,
who I leave your mother and father, cleave and become one.
I was uncomfortable, unauthentic to say I really don't like

(01:26:47):
pork chops. And when I finally told her, she said,
how long have you not liked pork chops? Since? I
was like for sin, I was a young kid. She's like,
why he didn't tell me. I was like, no, I
don't know. And it's something that simple. So you if
you take it even deeper, man, if we if I

(01:27:08):
came telling my wife about pork child, you know, dann Well,
I'm not telling her about all the others things that
I'm inefficient in. So all I'm saying is I understand
and I respect the way you're saying it. But there
are some people listening who may roll eyes, or some

(01:27:31):
people who may be going talk not me. I'm good,
I'm perfect. Sold. That was just something I know that
I gotta sit there and just I gotta pull the
veil off my eyes. I wasn't even willing to talk
to the wife about not liking pork chops. But and

(01:27:51):
from my conversation, it wasn't with my wife. My conversation
was with God, and where I knew that there was
not in a part of the thing that you've said, though,
was you know, well, why haven't you told me this? Well,
maybe because you didn't want to disappoint her. I mean whatever,
whatever that whatever that means. I wish I was a

(01:28:11):
but you know what I mean, like for me, it's
for me. It had nothing to do with her, and
it had everything to do with me in regards of
I was uncomfortable in my own skin, right, I struggle
a long time with my heavenly father because of my

(01:28:32):
relationship lacking with my earthly friend. That's that's my journey.
So that's what I'm saying is you can't die to
self completely if you don't even really know self. And
that's that's a fair point. And I'm and I'm raising

(01:28:55):
my hand and saying I'm just learning self. Yeah, And
I think that's a very fair point because, um, because
it's a lot, it's a lot of Christians out here
still playing behind closed doors with a laptop in the computer. Yeah,
looking at uh porn hub. And you know, for me,
for a long time, I had sexual integrity issues looking

(01:29:18):
at pornographical stuff. I mean that I think everyone has
a as a stronghold, or had a stronghold in their life,
or still has something as I said, it does or
did without a doubt. And I mean, like I said,
there's I'm not gonna sit up here and say I'm
perfect on progress. I'm in progress. Just continue to have
those three dots that are just just going because I

(01:29:40):
think that's the thing about it always, at least for myself,
is when I have when I did start to go
through that, it was the like I said, it was
my dad in that moment. It was the traumatic experience.
And then it was you know, the birth of my child,
y'all's child. I had no birth. I did not. Sorry
you watched I was. I was the greatest cheerleader in

(01:30:04):
that room though. Um but yeah, she she did give birth. Um.
But I think those those moments and then like I said,
but it was it was the reading of the word
and how it transformed me. But I had to be
authentic with myself. You have to be you can't. You
can't fake your own self. And if you are, then
I mean you really Yeah, And so I had to

(01:30:27):
be authentic with myself. And there was actually a time,
I mean we're being transparent, Like so you know, I
had my wife and I we we had our child
at a wedlock right and before we got married. I
kept telling I said, I need to work on me.
I have to because if I wasn't at a position
where I was stable, not just I'm not speaking financially,

(01:30:53):
like just stable as a as what we talked about,
what is a man that I can be for you
as a husband, be for you as a father in
our like the marriage piece is only just literally a certificate,
and like I said, I I'm still trying to protect
that sanctity of our marriage. Those vows that we made

(01:31:14):
to each other, Like those weren't just words written on
a piece of paper. I mean to me, that was
a covenant and I and I've kept those very sacred
in my heart because I had to be authentic with myself.
And where do I need to go? Like just because
society is telling me this is what I needed to do,
Like that doesn't make it what I needed to do

(01:31:35):
and I had I personally had to get myself in
a position where I could leave my family. But I'm
not not necessarily I'm not necessarily leading from the front.
Sometimes sometimes I'm leading from the back. Sometimes I'm leading
from your side. Some you know, like we're but those
are the positions of where and sometimes you gotta lead
me like you have, And it's amazing, Like when you
have you know that that spouse or significant other in

(01:31:58):
your life that if you they have so much intuition,
wisdom and sometimes again trying to be a mascular man,
like I know what we need. But she has led
our family in a lot of situations where I'm like, man,
I'm thankful that you did what you did. It was
me it would be a blaze. But I mean it's

(01:32:25):
just amazing though, like like I said, that a part
of it, what is it? You know that it was?
It's it was those moments. But then again, you know,
finding that woman for myself in my life, who is
my wife that as a man, I don't always have
to be the quote unquote leader. We are leading, we
are leading, and there's times where I have to take

(01:32:47):
that front position and there's times where I'm taking the
back inside, like but that's I think. Sometimes you just
gotta be the lookout guy in the in the tower,
just looking out because I was needed, right, it could
be needed and other family members. Just manhood is so
complex and it's not about having sex make a whole

(01:33:11):
bunch of money and then you you would think that's
what that's what it is though, Yeah, it's it's a facade,
it is. So I mean, it's been a great conversation.
It's been dope. I like how deep this was, and
I mean, I appreciate you guys, this was this was

(01:33:33):
this is what we men need, we all need. Yeah
about appreciate you all coming in, Appreciate it spending time. Yeah.
From Steve Smith, Sr. Joe Fushi, Kurt Coleman, Anthony Hill,
Highly Taylor, Brian Balta, Chevis, Wesley Robinson and Taylor and

(01:33:58):
Meredith Carter. We like tell you Happy Father's Day, taller
men out there also to all the daddy's too, because
there's some fathers who are paying to be fathers, but
then there's some daddies. That's what we're talking about investing in.
So Happy Father's Day and I appreciate you guys sitting
and listening to this conversation about manhood, fatherhood and also

(01:34:21):
just being transparent. This is cool. Honored to be part
of this. Honor too. To have men who's supporting and
willing to be vulnerable. That's that's not that's not easy,
you know, to basically put yourself out there what you've
experienced and has impacted you. So appreciate it. Thank you,

(01:34:46):
Thank God, bless and catch you on next episode. You
are a unique person. You are well worth it, you
are competent, and most of all, you're lovable. I'm Steve
smith Singer, I'm Gerard Little John and this is cut
to It. Cut to It with Steve smith Singer. That

(01:35:11):
Is Me is a production of Cut to It LLC,
Balto Creative Media, The Black Effect and I Heart Radio.
For more podcast from I Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio Apple Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows from Cut to It. Executive producer Steve

(01:35:32):
Smith Singer, co host Gerard Little John, talent in booking
manager Joe Fusci, social media teamer Wesley Robinson, and John
Show from Balto Creative Media. Cut to It is produced
by Brian Baltaschevic and Meredith Carter, with production assistance by
Alex Lebrek, Production coordinator Taylor Robinson. Theme music by Alex Johnson,

(01:35:55):
Lyrics and vocals by Anthony Hamilton. You had him about it,
then we're about to let you know. It's it's all
Cas