Ep. 77: Bo Nickal - The Wrestler, The Fighter, The Hunter - Cutting The Distance

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Today,
I'm joined by Bow Nickel. He's well known name in
the realms of wrestling, mixed martial arts, and more and
more into hunting as time goes on. He's renowned for
his exceptional prowess on the wrestling mat. He's carved the
legacy as one of the most decorated collegiate wrestlers in
recent history, posting three NCAA National Championships numerous accolades during

(00:33):
his tenure at Penn State University. But recently he's been
transitioning from what would be considered a prestigious wrestling career
and he's transitioning into that fast paced world of MMA.
Nichol's journey continues as he seeks to make his mark
in the octagon. He's drawn upon his as an athleticism,
strategic mindset, and competitive spirit in this new arena beyond

(00:58):
the confinance of the wrestling and MMA. He's also passionate.
It's a new passion for the outdoors and he's kind
of propelled in the world of hunting, which we've seen
other UFC stars do and and kind of it seems
like there's a pretty good parallel between those where he's using,
you know, applying his dedication, focus and skill to pursue
well game. So welcome to the show, bo.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, appreciate you having me on.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yeah. Yeah, A little background on me and wrestling. So
I was a basketball guy, right, and so we we
were always different, but my kid it was offered at
different seasons, so my kid was able to start wrestling
as like a first grader. So I was I was
a guy like I coach all my other kids sports,
whether it's football, basketball, baseball, and it was the first
sport I ever just kind of sat up and watched,

(01:41):
like and then you realize what the coach is like,
all right, I can yell get on your toes, like
when you're getting ready to be you know, like I
was that guy, like that's my level of wrestling I've become.
But I've always been a student of the game. And
so it's actually, you know, three or four years ago,
you know, watching YouTube, like oh there's a guy named
Bo Nickel and and you know these guys at Penn
State that are dominant and learned about Sanderson cause always

(02:03):
wanted to just know more, you know. It's like, yeah,
and then we're getting taught all these moves and practice
for my kids are and then you watch you guys wrestling.
You guys do use moves, but it's it's almost like
it turns into a different sport. Like you can't get
away with had an arm anymore. You can't get away.
And so that's I'm I'm exposing myself to my understanding
of wrestling. But uh, I was a basketball player.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
To gotcha. Yeah, it's a great sport, you know. I
Uh I feel like so my my granddad was a
wrestler and a wrestling coach, and so is my dad,
and so that's kind of how I got into it
right away. But uh yeah, I played all sports growing up.
So my mom played college basketball and stuff, and I
played football and did baseball and track and all that

(02:47):
type of thing. But uh, wrestling always for me was
just what I identified with the most, uh and you know,
I felt like the most passionate about. But uh yeah,
that's cool that you're, uh, your son's into it. It's
a great or just to even it doesn't mean matter
if you wrestle for your whole life or wrestling college
or anything like that. Just experiencing it, I think is

(03:09):
a really you know, good thing.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, it's it's different, you know, because everything I did
was a team sport, and you know, it's everybody talks
about this, Like wrestling, it's you and yourself out there
at that point, and it does it. You can't depend
on anybody. You can't hide behind four other players or
ten other players or whatever sport you're playing like, it's
it's you and nobody else, and it forces you to
to kind of own that. And I like that about wrestling,

(03:32):
you know, And I think in today's world, we don't
have enough grit and a lot of what we do,
and so it's like if nothing else, I like that
word grit. It's like teaching you to grind it out
whether you win or lose, like you better leave it
all out there.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, I feel like, you know, and a lot of
things in life you get out of it what you
put into it. But it's even you know, more so
in wrestling, just because like you said, it's only you
out there and at the end of the day, like
it's it's it's just up to you, you know, win
or lose. It's going to be determined by who scores
the most points in the match. At that point. It

(04:05):
doesn't matter, you know, what your coach says or what
your practice partners or anything like that. But you know,
I think that for me, that definitely instilled a lot
of uh, you know, character and different things into you know,
how I try to carry myself. And but also, you know,
I was really appreciative that I did team sports as well,
because that social component is it's you know, you see

(04:28):
some guys that maybe just wrestled their whole life and
they don't quite get that, they don't understand what it's
like to to know, work with another person. And you know,
so I think both are important. But yeah, I mean
and they both they both teach you know, different lessons
that are that are positive.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. You know, I I'm glad he's
into it now. Unfortunately, and you your UFC and wrestlers
probably laugh that. You know, these sports w i A
which is like are Washington and they consider basketball at
contact sport and so now all these kids can do
both up until like high school and now they've got
to make a decision. So we'll see whether my boy
wants to continue wrestling or playing basketball. But like you said, regardless,

(05:08):
it was great life lessons for the last six or
seven years, and I think it's it's good and it's weird.
And I'm a basketball guy. Like you watch basketball players
and like I cringe when you see like guys hoop
and holler and acting like an idiot. It's like, at
least most wrestlers. There are a few bad apple, but
like most wrestlers carry themselves different which I like that
like respect side and more respect for the sports and

(05:32):
their opponents than maybe some of the sports that I
played carry themselves with you know nowadays. So I do
like that, like it it seems like most wrestlers carry
a different level of respect than some other athletes.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, I think so. You know, I think when you
just have to go through what wrestlers have to go through,
you know, the the training and the difficulty and just
you know, just one practice, it's like so tough to
even just get through a practice sometimes, and I think
that you just kind of automatically have a certain level
of respect for your opponents. And in addition to the

(06:04):
fact that that's just kind of part of the culture
is to you know, respect each other, appreciate each other, like,
you know, a good example, I was at the Arnold
Classic for I was doing appearance at that Fit and
sexpo and it was in Columbus, Ohio, and a guy
walks up to me. He's like bo and I turn
and look and it's this kid, Colin Moore who I

(06:27):
wrestled him the NCA season, the NSA finals, and like,
we wrestled a few times my senior year. And some
might have considered us kind of like rivals and stuff
like that, compete against each other, but comes right out
to me, Hey man, how you doing, like just you know,
really friendly and stuff, and so that just the culture.
You know, you just kind of have that bond with people,
even if you compete against them, you just have that connection.

(06:47):
So it's pretty it's pretty cool for sure.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
That's awesome. I was gonna ask you. I seen you
at the Arnold the past week, and I didn't know
if you were there in the arm wrestling competition or
the fitness modeling, which which you went there.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
No, you know, the only the one that I wanted
to do. So they got everything there first off, they
ought to go on there too, now, right, it's insane.
There's so many things. I mean they do obviously everybody
knows it. For the bodybuilding competition. But there's there's powerlifting,
Olympic lifting, there's a jiu jitsu, there's boxing muay Thai.
But the one that I wanted to do that looks

(07:20):
pretty crazy is they have guys dress up in medieval
armor like knights, with with swords and axes and stuff,
and they literally fight each other. It's the craziest thing.
So I was like, I think I could get down
for that.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, yeah, I know we've seen you were there other
things going on the new edition of your son around Christmas, Ace,
like how are you getting any sleep yet? Or is
that going good or bad?

Speaker 2 (07:41):
Or it's going well? Actually, you know, I feel I
feel pretty fortunate for a lot of reasons. You know,
first and foremost that he's he's healthy, and my wife's healthy.
So very grateful that they're they're in good health. And yeah,
as far as sleep, you know, he's been pretty good.
Last night, he was about eleven PM to six, so
it's getting more consistent, and yeah, I'm getting some good sleep.

(08:03):
And my wife, you know, I'm really grateful for her.
She takes care of them and she does a lot
so that I can get good rest and recovery and
be at my best for training, So we're figuring it out. Definitely,
you know, a big adjustment going from just us to
adding a little one, but it's all good things and
all fun.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. So we're gonna jump more into
the meat of the podcast. We always start with question
and answers either from our social media some of other
listeners and you A lot of these are gonna be
more wrestling questions. A lot of the Cutting the Distance
podcast is more technical hunting, and I really wanted to
bring you on talk about that crossover. Like a lot
of you know, a lot of my Yeah we can

(08:43):
be in the greatest shape shoot our bow grape, but
a lot of you know, good elk hunters, mealdeer hunters.
That it comes down to the mental and like staying
in the game, which has a great connection with wrestling.
But yeah, we're gonna we're gonna hit a few Q
and A from our listeners. Once again, if you have
questions for me or my guests, feel free to email
them to us at CTD at Phelps game Calls dot
com or hit us up on social media and we'll

(09:04):
do our best to get him in here. So our
first question comes from Nate dan Zy, how has the
wrestling discipline transferred over into the hunting world and how
have you been able to pull and use pieces as
you if you become more into hunting.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
You know, yeah, I mean obviously, I'm I'm fairly new
to hunting. I've only been hunting a few years. But
I see so many correlations and so many things that
you know, just are very similar. I would say that obviously,
Like if you're looking at basic things, just being in
good shape helps a lot, you know, I think you
already mentioned that, but being in good shape, I feel

(09:39):
like that's never concerned for me. Anytime we're hiking, packing
out doing whatever, it's like, I'm ready to go. So
it's it's literally a non issue. And so I think
that's just that's just very base like basic stuff, standard stuff.
I think in addition to that, if you look at
however you hunt, whether it's with a bow or with
a with a rifle, and you know, there's a certain
technical aspect to shooting and you know, making a good shot,

(10:03):
I feel like that comes pretty natural to me because
I'm always used to learning technique. So I watch a
ton of film and there's a lot of guys that
I am listening to and trying to figure out, you know,
what little tips and tricks they use just for making
good shots and stuff. So I think that that that
just having trained my whole life and had to learn technique,

(10:24):
it helps me pick things up a little quicker. And
then when I when you get into you know, those
are just like I said, the basic things that you
know kind of seem pretty standard. But I feel like
when you get into actual hunting scenarios, it's always going
to be different and you can never And wrestling is
also like that, right, Like you get into a match,

(10:44):
it's never going to go the way that you drill, right,
So you know, you might have drilled a double like
takedown ten thousand times, but you know you're in a
match in a high pressure situation and there might have
to be little micro adjustments within that. And so I
think that that that applies as well. So you know,
anytime that I go into compete, whether that's wrestling or fighting,

(11:09):
or anytime I go out on too to hunt too,
it's just my mindset is very i would say focused, strategic.
I feel confident and I feel like I'm gonna do
whatever I need to do to make it happen. So,
you know, I think that that comes from that wrestling

(11:32):
foundation and that base of like I never really feel
I never really get too up or two down. It No,
it's just very very even keel, and you know, whatever
the scenario is, I feel like I can kind of
focus on what I need to do rather than letting
the moment get bigger than me. Right, Like you see,
you see a massive bowl coming at you, screaming in

(11:53):
your face like it it's really easy to like lose
your cool. Yeah, and then the same thing as you know,
wrestling in NCA finals or a state championship map. You know,
it's it's it's easy. But since I have that experience
and I know how I'm gonna respond, how my body's
going to feel, how' going to react, I feel like
it really applies in those scenarios. So you know, then
it goes back to all right, put myself in the

(12:13):
best position I can to now in hunting, make a
good shot and hopefully, you know, be able to kill
that animal quickly and as ethically as I can. So
I just, folks, I'm able to be in these high
pressure scenarios and just focus on the technique, focus on
the discipline, and be calm. And then I think that

(12:34):
that's what has helped me. I've had a decent amount
of success fairly quickly, and all those things you know,
apply and translate.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah, I think athletes in general have like an easy
crossover because you know, even maybe more so for wrestlers,
but like even on the basketball court football, you come
up with a scheme or your your group of techniques
to beat this guy. And it's very similar in hunting.
Like you you go through, it's methodical, and but you
need to adapt right you were you know, whether you're
you're planning for a guy that you know is a
single leg guy or an ankle picker versus he comes

(13:04):
out and you know he's going for a double or
however you'd prepared, and it's different than you adapt right
and we it's the same. And then one thing that
like I struggled with early. I've hunted my entire life,
but when I picked up in the bow and archery hunting,
I couldn't keep my cool where it's like you maybe
you know doing it later like well, you're like I've
been in a million situations where like the stakes are
extremely high, and you know you've been able to So

(13:26):
it's like you have mechanisms built in or you can
you can you rely on that experience where your heart
rate's been elevated or you've been maybe a little bit frazzled,
and you know, but you're like, all right, you know
you got mechanisms that calm yourself down and make a
good shot, you know, keep your keep your stuff together.
So yeah, I see where you know, wrestling in that
discipline can definitely transfer, and we're going to get into

(13:48):
it a lot more here in a little bit like
the mental side of like, you know, that's that's the
toughest thing I think for a lot of people is
like day two or three of a hunt, things aren't
going good, like staying with it or talking yourself into it.
And you know, you've had a lot of great mentors.
This is also one of Neate's questions. You've had a
lot of great mentors from your parents to your probably
your high school coaches. But you know, Kale gets a

(14:10):
lot of Cale Sanderson, your coach at Penn State, gets
a lot of you know, credit and whatever. But he
was curious, like, what was the one thing you learned
from Kale that like you use in your day to
day life, Like, was there a message, like an underlying
message that really kind of stuck.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, for sure. I would say the biggest thing that
I learned from Coach Kale, and I learned this very
early on when I first got to to school, was
just to have have gratitude. And you know, I think
that's something that for me is the foundation of really
everything I do nowadays. And you know, it translates from

(14:46):
sport to you know, family and relationships to business. It's
it's it's always, you know, has the I feel like
everything I do, I try to do it with gratitude
and and appreciation, and uh, you know, you can always
kind of just I guess, want more in your mind,
or feel like maybe you didn't get a fair shake

(15:07):
or whatever it is. But what I found has given
me the best results and allowed me to be the
happiest and most content is just to find things that
I appreciate, you know, whether they're they're a big thing
like my wife or my son, or a small thing.
Whenever I think of gratitude, I always think, so we
used to have a box in our wrestling room and

(15:28):
we'd have a little note cards and we'd write something
down that we were grateful for and put in the box.
And we did this exercise one time where we kind
of read something we were grateful for and most people
put big things, you know, put their family or wrestling
at Penn State, or your health, things like that. And
my buddy Zan reat Theford, who was you know, pretty
pretty amazing wrestler in his own right, multiple time national champion,

(15:50):
world champion, he wrote down that he was grateful that
he had dry socks and if you ever had wet sox,
you know, like that's not fun. But I just thought
that was so cool and it was so simple, but
at the same time it was really profound. And so
I think that gratitude is something that I've learned, you know,
from coach Kale that he really preached that and it's
allowed me just to, I think, get the most out

(16:12):
of myself in every area of my life.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah, that's awesome, a great, great message to pass on.
So jumping to Heather Morales asks, which we're going to
get a lot of these, so if they run together
we can we can pass so like, how do you
how is your UFC training kind of helped prepare you
for hunting, and it's a lot of it's going to
come back to physical, but there may be some some
threads you can pull out that maybe aren't you know,
one physical, you know, because I got to imagine MMA

(16:38):
was also something a little new. Yeah, you were in
you know, a wrestling, which is a you know, a style, right,
you would call it a style, but you had to
be a complete fighter, so you were exposed to you know,
striking or you know, jiu jitsu all these other things.
So maybe we can make other connections that aren't just
physical the whole way through.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Or yeah, absolutely, I mean, yeah, of course, you know
you're gonna have physical connection. I actually look at it
more the other way, honestly, Like hunting and hiking and
getting up in the mountains and moving and like that
helps me in my MMA training because it's a different
type of training than what you know, I'm used to,
what most people are used to, you know, just just
being able to put a heavy load on your back

(17:17):
and pack something out like that. I look at that
as like, oh, this is like preparing me for a fight.
So it's kind of funny. I look at it almost
in an opposite way too, like they both help each other,
and I think mentally, what's really interesting. So I started
hunting at a pretty similar time to when I started
training MMA, and so obviously I had that wrestling base

(17:41):
and I had twenty plus years of wrestling knowledge. But
like you said, there's so many other disciplines and styles
that I had to learn, right, Like I have to
learn jiu jitsu, I've learned boxing, I've learned muy thai.
I have to learn how to blend these all together.
And that's really how hunting is, right. You know, there's
a lot of different ways to hunt. There's different styles,
there's different reins, you know, there's different animals. So I

(18:03):
think for me, it's about when I look at my
MMA training and hunting training, I want to learn really good,
solid fundamentals and in everything that I'm doing. And I
feel like when you master the fundamentals and the basics,
then you can really be free to do whatever you want.
You know, people see I think the end result. A

(18:25):
lot of times they see, oh, you get your arm raised,
you have that success, or oh you you killed a
massive bull, or you killed a big deer or something
like that, Like they just see that. They don't see
all the hours and hours that you spent training and
mastering those fundamentals, or you know, mastering your shot technique,
or spending time in the mountains, studying scouting and learning

(18:47):
you know, how animals react to certain situations, how to
put yourself in the best position, those type of things.
So I feel like they're they're one and the same
really for MMA and for hunting. You know, if you
can master fundundamentals and then you know, basically whatever scenario're in,
you're going to be able to make the best decision
possible and put yourself into a position.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah no, And you said, like you know the fundamentals.
You know, a lot of people look at us because
we are you know, good callers, great colors, you know,
at the top the top of the but there's still
a foundation has to be laid. Like we have a
very good understanding of ELT. You know a lot of people,
Oh you can just call. So that's why you're sucessfully
is like I can shoot my bow very well, I
can I understand ELK come in pretty good shape. Like

(19:28):
I've I've been through enough situations. I'm never going to quit.
So I hunt till the last minute of the last
day every time, you know, and so it's like, yeah,
you've got this foundation, very fundamental, and then you build
from there and then you yeah, like I always figure
there there's some great elk hunters that don't run a call,
you know, they figured out different ways. They're super there,
maybe even sneakier than I am, you know, and so
there's there's lots of ways. But you build that foundation,

(19:49):
and like you say, there's nothing stopping you from figuring
out who you are, how you're going to do it,
which which translates over really well, you know from that

(20:11):
next question is from Jason Verbeck, a guy got to
meal to your hunt with probably ten years ago in
eastern Washington. You just had a question. Is a feeling
similar between like when you let a perfect arrow go
versus like when you're getting ready to knock after you
knock somebody out or you know, submit somebody, Like is
there any carry over to that similar feeling or is

(20:32):
it different?

Speaker 2 (20:33):
Oh, there's a ton of carryover. There's a ton you know,
I think that it's it's it's very similar. The only
difference I would say is, you know, when you're hunting,
you're just you're out in the wilderness and you're in
nature and it's so peaceful. It has this weird blend
of like, you know, violence kind of in a way

(20:54):
because you're you're sending an arrow through through an animal,
through their vitals and you know they're going to die.
But you're also just like a lot of times in
this very quiet, serene, majestic scenario, you know, beautiful country
a lot of times, and then you know, in a fight,
it's so there's so many people packed in there and
it's such a more of a chaotic environment that But

(21:15):
but as far as like the actual action of it happening,
it's super similar. You almost turn everything off. And like
I noticed when I knock a guy out when if
you if you punch, like sometimes you'll punch somebody and
you'll feel the connection on your hand, but a lot
of times, if you land a really good shot, you
don't feel.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
It at all.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
It's like it's like there's nothing there. And I think
it's very similar to like when you loose an arrow
and it's just a perfect shot, it's almost like you
don't even really you just it just releases and it's
not like it's not tense at all. Yeah, So I think, Yeah,
it's super similar. It's a good feeling for sure.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah. And next question Adam Breakfield, And I don't know
if this is a question about his kid, like to
get a mind as a young wrestler that you need
to focus on competing and not necessarily the outcomes to
get you like through that through that stage of maybe
not winning all the time.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yeah, that's a great question. I think that that's something
that I actually struggled with a lot, because when when
you have success as a young athlete, then maybe a
lot sometimes you feel more pressure to have more success,
and you know, you start focusing on the wrong things,
or maybe there's just outside pressures. You know. Of course,
everybody wants to win. That's natural and that's normal. That's

(22:30):
not a bad thing. But I think that I always
go back to, like why I'm doing what I'm doing,
And for me, winning isn't why I do what I do.
I didn't wrestle just so I could win, you know.
I if I my main priority in life was just winning,
then I would do something really easy that I would
win every time and I would never lose, you know.
And so I enjoy wrestling and I enjoy a fighting

(22:55):
because I like to challenge myself. I like the strategy.
I like to you know, I like the blend of
physical physicality and mental preparation and you know, having to
you know, make decisions in uh scenario, high pressure scenario quickly.
So that's that's what I I like. That's why I

(23:17):
like wrestling, And so I think it's important for people
to ask themselves why why am I doing what I'm doing?
And I also think it's okay to change directions, like
if you if you're doing something and maybe you realize
why you're doing it is it's not very fulfilling. It's
not the right reasons, Like you should find something that
you really love and enjoy the process and and you know,
I know that's not easy, but that's kind of I

(23:40):
think what you have to do to really get good results.
I mean, you can get good results for a certain
amount of time doing something that you you don't love,
but it's not fulfilling. And I don't think that's really
gonna last.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, great point, my buddy Jesse, Uh, I'm gonna get
his name wrong. Boost and that she used to be
used to like whole the big garbages around here. You
want to know what it was like meeting Trump and
how that situation went.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
So that was crazy. So the story goes after my
last fight, Trump was actually cage side, so he was
there watching it and I kind of like went up
to a match with a fight and just said hello
and stuff. And then basically the next week he invited
me out to Bedminster to his golf club to play

(24:28):
around of golf with him. And I'm not a big golfer,
but I'm like, this is a great opportunity, so I
definitely would love to. But it ended up being really awesome.
We just hung out and I rode in the cart
with him and we played eighteen holes. And he's just
a super down to earth cool guy for being, you know,
President of the United States and one of the most
famous people on the face of the planet. He was

(24:49):
super down to earth. We talked about obviously, golf, we
talked about fighting, we talked about football, and it was
just kind of like just hanging out like a couple
of bros. I really and that's huge. How I judge
people is I'm not ever going to judge people based
on when anybody else says about him. I'm going to
judge them based on my own interactions with them, and
you know, people can say whatever they want, but I've

(25:10):
had a good amount of experience and hung out with
the guy for hours and hours, and he's super cool,
super like I said, down to earth and just one
of the nicest guys I've ever met.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
That's awesome. How many did you beat him or did
he beat you?

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Oh? He's good, man, I'm not. He was shooting, so
this is pretty crazy. So he was playing with Lawrence
Taylor and there was a couple of other guys in.
They were betting on each hole and so the last hole,
it was like coming down to the wire and Trump
hit like one hundred and fifty yards shot like perfect

(25:43):
two feet from the pin to like win the round.
And it was like he's really good. So yeah, it
was it was. It was crazy. It was just fun
for me just to watch.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
That's that's cool. My buddy Matt Schmidt, who's a wrestling
coach and then like wrestl wrestling coach for the prep
and this must be one of his own kids. Do
you have any advice for a high school wrestler that
always plays it too safe and conservative and he's hesitant
to like throw when he needs to.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yeah, you know, I think that that kind of goes
back to one of the previous questions. It's you know,
if you're if you're focused on the results and you're
focused on the outcome, then a lot of times, you know, it's, uh,
you're going to be tense and you're not going to
really compete freely. You're not going to compete the way
you want to compete. And so I think that first off,

(26:31):
you know, you got to realize why you're doing it. Yeah,
winning winning and losing is you know, nobody wants to lose.
Everybody likes to win, like that's not unusual. And something
that actually my coach, that coach Kele said the other
day that I really liked was he said, it's okay
to be nervous. It's just not okay to be nervous
about being nervous. You know, nerves are normal and everybody

(26:55):
gets nervous before a match. So you know, just don't
feel weird about that. Don't feel like, you know, oh
my gosh, like what am I'm nervous? I'm not gonna
what am I gonna do?

Speaker 1 (27:03):
Now?

Speaker 2 (27:03):
It's just like, all right, I'm nervous, Okay, that's good.
That just means I care. And I think that the
other thing is that's really important is develop a system.
So always have like I have in my mind when
I got to wrestle, all I would think was circle
post the head, pull them around, get to my shot.
Circle post the head, pull them around, get to my shot.

(27:25):
And so it's very simple and any anytime in the match,
that's just what I would be, I would repeat in
my head. And so you never really get caught up
and lost in what to do, and you're not worried
about what the score is or how much time left.
You're just circle post the head, pull them around, get
to the leg like shot. And so I think those
two things are really important. So yeah, try to try

(27:49):
to you know, it's okay to be nervous, but just
understand that that's normal. And also just build a system
so you don't have to try to figure out what
you're going to do in the match. Already know and
you already have a plan.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
Gotcha. So Hunter Schmidz, which is his kid, got to
watch him wrestle a little bit this year. His kids
are outstanding wrestlers. What's your favorite wrestling move? And this
is where maybe maybe you do have a move or
you just talked about technique, you know, circle pushed ahead,
you know. But now I don't know if you consider
moves like a single move or but I'll let you

(28:22):
answer that how you think. Like I say, I'm not
the wrestling guy.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
Now, I think you know you're you're on track. A
lot of people think of individual moves, you know, but
really once it was kind of like what I said earlier.
Once you kind of master fundamentals and you can do
whatever you want to do. So for me, it was
always fun to just be creative and score in creative ways.
And the way I was able to do that was
master fundamentals. But if I already have to pick a

(28:46):
move that I really liked, it was always cradles. So
you know, I had long arms and I was pretty quick,
so I was able to get to a lot of cradles.
And for me, the ultimate best part about wrestling was
pinning somebody. You know, I think that that was just
my style and what I gravitated most towards from a
young age. So you know, cradles were a way that

(29:07):
like that was always kind of one of my best
best areas, best moves in I was able to pin
guys in them.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
So that was fun. Yeah, and that's it seems like
you watch and this is just like once again me
on the outside not You watch kids like start with moves,
like you know, the tough kids are head and arm in.
You're early, and then you go through this and then
it's like as things go on, you're slowly like losing
the ability to throw these moves because other wrestlers and
we've even watched it a little bit where the dominant

(29:34):
kids can still create ale and stuff, but you're almost
to the point like if you're not super dominant, which
you know, maybe you know, it's like some of these
kids have to just go back to the fundamentals, like
you know, single leg, double legs, you know, and run
run the normal program. And it's kind of funny you
teach all these moves early, but I think you know,
just as an outsider, as a coach, just coaches other

(29:55):
things like and then watching you guys wrestle at a
very high level, like it all come come full circle
back to fundamentals.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
It seems like, yeah, absolutely, you know, it definitely cycles.
I think at first, you know, when you're young, you're
kind of just flopping around and you know what I mean, Yeah,
maybe even more important just to learn like how to
control your own body relative, not even like control another person.
But I think once you get to a certain level

(30:22):
from there, then it's, uh, you know, you don't see
those moves work as much because kids are a little better.
They know how to defend them. And that that's when,
like I said, you know, you're you always have to
continue to master fundamentals and and get better and improve
on them. You know, I was able to pull off
a lot of what people would call like junior high
moves or crazy moves in college, and but that was

(30:43):
because my fundamentals allowed me to execute in those positions,
you know, not necessarily you know, just going for a
crazy moves out of nowhere. It would be something that
my opponents had to put themselves out of position because
I was in position. So then now these these quote

(31:04):
unquote crazy moves are more available to me. And I
think that that's what people don't realize. And also I
think it helped that I just wasn't scared, you know,
I'm not afraid. It doesn't matter if it's first match
of the year or the NCAA Finals, like I'm going
to wrestle the same, So you know that that's something
that I think added to that. But uh yeah, it
definitely goes in cycles. And the fundamentals are something that

(31:26):
can never be you can never feel like, you know,
you don't need to work on them. It's always gonna
it's always gonna help you.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah, gotcha. Next question, last question from the listeners, which
is actually my co host on this he hosts every
other show, Dirck Durham. What's your diet look like, you know,
for for training and hunting. If it's different or the
same all the time.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, so you know, when I'm when I'm training and
getting ready, I pretty much I keep it very simple.
I do obviously a lot of a lot of meat,
a lot of game, elk, venison, do bison, different stuff
like that. You know. All I'll eat beef and stuff
and eat salmon and you know, so a lot of meat, fish,

(32:06):
and then I keep it pretty simple with everything else. Potatoes,
maybe some rice here and there I'll do. I have
a nice farm near me so that I get raw
dairy and raw cheese, so get some raw milk in
there and then you know, but I keep it very simple.
I don't do a lot of I don't really do
any processed foods. I make sure that I stay hydrated

(32:29):
and get good electrolytes and stuff. And yeah, so and
then hunting it's a little different because with when I'm
training and getting ready for flight, I have like two basically,
I usually do two two ish hour training sessions a
day and then the other time I'm able to like
focus on my nutrition. But when I'm hunting, it's like

(32:52):
you might be out for ten hours, like you might
just be in the morning getting it. So, you know,
I kind of adjust that. Usually I'm eating a little
bit less and I'll lose a little bit of weight and stuff.
But I try to, of course, like bring snacks and
you know, but I keep it pretty simple still, you know,
fruits and again like you know, maybe uh, maybe bring

(33:12):
some jerky stuff like that. So but I don't really
do a lot of a lot of processed stuff. And
if I'm eating carbs, it's potatoes or fruit. So yeah,
I'm just I'm very simple with that.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
Gotcha, No on that topic, I'm gonna add my own
question to that since I don't have it later on,
So cutting like you gotta hit you gotta hit a weight,
like what's your what's your normal weight you walk around
and how much weight you typically have to lose and
have you started like cutting now for you know, a
month out? Like how does that process work? Like your
normal weight you're fighting weight, and then what it takes
to get there.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
So the way it works for me now, I'm about
two o seven two o eight and I have to
make one to eighty six, so we're like a little
over twenty pounds. And the way I do it is
it's a water load, so I don't have to do
a lot until about ten days ten days out and
once we get to that point, I'll start to hypersaturate

(34:03):
with you know, a couple of gallons of water in
a day. And uh then obviously when I work out,
it kind of flushes my system and I'm able to
sweat out a ton and so then I just basically
slowly bring it in so it'll be like two gallons
one point seventy five one point five, and I'll just
bring it in to a lower lower amount until till

(34:24):
weigh and day and that that gets me down. And
I have a nutrition coach and he does my strength
conditioning as well. So he helps me with everything and
he calculates it all out so I don't have to
guess and try to figure it out for myself. But
uh yeah, I mean for me, that's really new. I
never cut a lot of weight as a kid or
high school or even college. Like when I was in

(34:46):
college my senior year, I wrestled one ninety seven and
pretty much every practice I would end underweight. I weighed
about two hundred pounds. I would end practice that, you
know one. And so I feel like where people focus
on cutting weight, it's more important to just focus on
skills and also just having fun like that. That could
easily be the worst part about wrestling, you know, cutting

(35:08):
weight and stuff. Yeah, you're you might be at a
competitive disadvantage younger if you're not cutting weight, but in
the long term, you're going to end up better off
because you're gonna have to learn, you know, more skills
and also it's going to be more fun for you,
so you're going to enjoy it.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, I remember the you know, the Thankfully, the high
school organizations or the interscholastic have like put some rules
on cutting right where you got an initial way in
so you don't have the kids running up and down
the highway in black garbage shacks and spitting in cups
all day anymore because they can't they can't weigh in
below that initial weight. But some of them are still
doing it for that initial way and they still you know,

(35:42):
get down so that they can, you know, but then
they have to continue to cut. But it. Yeah, sometimes
I wonder like how healthy that is. But if you're
doing it, just buy water loads and not just like crazy.
You know, I'm sure there's some calorie deficit, but I
just I would hate for people, you know, especially young
kids careful how I say this, like if you're not
elite or doing it for like a real reason, you know,

(36:05):
like UFC or collegiate you know, championships, Like yeah, maybe
you guys should just wrestle at your own weight and
played a little safer.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
Yeah, you know, I think that it can. Like I said,
it makes the sport. It's already a tough sport, and
it makes it really tough and not fun when you're
at a deficit. And so you know, I always recommend that,
you know, just especially as a young kid. Doesn't matter
how good you are when you're in the sixth grade
or even when you're in junior or senior in high school.
You know, just wrestle what you weigh, let your body grow,

(36:35):
be healthy, be happy, enjoy of the sport. And like
I said, you know, for me, I understand if people
in college want to cut weight. You know, it's competitive.
There's only ten spots on the team. You know, you
want to make the team. You want to be you know,
college All American national champ. So you're also a little
older and more mature. You can handle a little better.

(36:55):
So at that point it's like, you know, you got
to do what you do. And now for me, I'm
I'm like a full grown adult, and I also know,
like I'm disciplined and I have a I know how
to do it in the best way possible, and I'm
not going to straight from the plan, So I'm able
to I like I said, you know, it's not fun
and it's not enjoyable, but I'm able to do it

(37:15):
in a way where it's not really hurting me.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
Yeah. Yeah, good, So okay, Well, thanks for answering all
those listener questions. Once again, if you have questions for
me or my guests, feel free to email them to
us at ct D app phelps, game calls, or hit
us up on any of the social platforms. We'll do
our best to get on there. Now we're gonna kind

(37:45):
of jump into our discussion a few questions. You know,
a lot of it's been hammered over. But my first
question is how long would it take for you to
knock me out or pin there? With my experience, I
want to know your honest answer, it'd be saxon, you know.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
My So, so I get in these discussions a lot.
And uh, the last person that brought this up was
one of my managers, and so he wrestled in high
school and so he thought like I think he was
maybe even like a state place or something like that,
and he was like, I think I could last thirty
seconds or whatever. And I was like how much? How
much do you want to bet? Like, yeah, let's go

(38:23):
any amount and he was like then he got a
little less confident, and I was like, dude, I'll literally
put any amount of money on it. And he lasted
about four seconds, so it was pretty pretty.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
He's a state placer. I'll give myself like a few
my only yeah, I don't have any advantage like me
thinking I'm six four and two fifty. It doesn't. It
just doesn't matter right for people that don't understand the
sport or wrestle at the level you do. There's just
levels to this, and like.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
It might matter, you know, if like I was like tiny,
you know, if I was like one hundred, if you
were one hundred pounds heavier than me or something like that,
then at that point, you know, it could matter. But uh,
that's the thing, Like I'm big enough to where it
doesn't really matter. You could be big and it's all good.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
And then I don't even want to ask this question then,
because you're probably gonna second beat you at that. I'm like,
how long would I or no, would I be able
to beat in a basketball court? But your mom was
like a collegiate player. I'm like, you probably beat me
in that too. I'm not even ask that question anymore.
My mom and I used to play quite a bit.
So yeah, I'm not even to strike that one from
the car and we're not asking you. So so I'm
gonna jump into you know what kind of inspired you

(39:32):
like what you know, You're you're cranking along, you know,
wrestling one of the best wrestlers in the world. You know,
and then your MMA career starts to take off. Like
what inspired you to Like where did this hunting idea
come from? Like did you see something that was it?
Joe Rogan talking about it, Like what made you want
to go do this?

Speaker 2 (39:49):
So I actually grew up around it, So I lived.
I was born in Colorado and I lived until I
was about twelve in Wyoming, And so hunting was something
that my my grandpa, I did my dad did. I remember,
you know, there'd be mornings where they get up and
you know, they they'd be out go hunt some mule
deer or go hunt birds or whatever it was, you know,

(40:10):
early and so that was always something that was normal
to me. Like for Thanksgiving we'd get a turkey. It
wouldn't be like a turkey from the store. It would
be like my my granddad or my dad would go
shoot a turkey. And you know, so that was something
that was really regular for me. And I just never
did it young because I was always wrestling and the
seasons overlapped and I didn't have a lot of time.
But uh so it was always something that I kind

(40:31):
of was around. And then when I graduated from college,
like you know, you're used to being a student athlete,
and so you have hours and hours of classes along
with practice. And now I'm graduating and I'm just practicing.
So I'm like, I got a lot of free time,
Like what am I going to be interested in? What
do I want to do? And so I saw, you know, again,

(40:52):
I have a lot of family members that hunt and stuff,
and I was like, huh, maybe maybe I could do
like a like bow hunting, maybe I could do some archery.
And so I thought about it for a while and then, uh,
you know, just the more I researched it and the
more I looked into it, I think that the fact
that just just so many things aligned as far as
you know, one wanting to eat healthy and and have

(41:14):
be able to provide meat for myself and for my family,
I thought that was, you know, such a cool thing,
and I wanted to make sure, like, you know, you
can get get meat at the store, but it's it's
not the same quality as as a as a real,
you know, wild animal. And so that was a big
factor in a big influence. And then just the way
that everything that we've talked about kind of how hunting

(41:36):
aligns with what I do in my in my career
and uh, the the passion and the pursued and you know,
setting goals and the discipline that it takes to be
successful and and all those things just really they just
like kind of spoke to me. And so I'm fortunate
that now I live an area in central Pennsylvania where

(41:58):
there's there's pretty good opportunity to be able to travel
you know, short short while and have you know land
that we can hunt on and stuff. And also, uh,
you know, I still have a family back home in
Colorado and in Wyoming, and so I'm able to go
back there and visit as well. So I have you know,
pretty good access to to place second hunt.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
Yeah that's awesome. So is you know you is you
becoming a celebrity, you know, very well known. Have you
gotten like any negative flak or any pushback on being
a hunter? Like and how have you dealt with that
or justified it? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (42:37):
It was funny. So the first the first time I
like posted posted anything about it, I had a ton
of people just like they almost seem shocked. They were like,
what like, oh my god, Like what are you doing?
Like that's so messed up? This and that? And uh,
at first I would kind of respond to people and
comment and I'm like, well, are you vegetarian or do

(42:57):
you eat meat like you eat McDonald's. Do you know
where that that kind from? And you know, you know
how many animals die for you to be able to
eat that, like you know, and so I'm like, this
is just and and so there was a little bit
of negative response, but I feel like the MMA community,
the wrestling community, the hunting community are all pretty similar mindset,
so you know, if anything, it was, it was more

(43:19):
positive and more people that kind of said wow, like
I didn't know you hunt, Like I'm even bigger fan now,
or no, I didn't know you hunt. That's so cool.
I'm a fan now. So I would say, you know, yeah,
there was a little negativity, but even I would say
way more, way more positive.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
Yeah, good good. Yeah. We I mean we we don't
know different because our industry really is the hunting industry, right,
Like I came up, That's how I became where I am,
And so you don't have you don't get as many naysayers.
But you you know, Chris Pratt, you know, we were
all stoked, you know, as a group of hunters, like yeah,
the guy and then he retracts a little bit right
and takes pictures down, and it's like, ah, you know,

(43:55):
we we'd love to have, but I understand like he
makes a living and if he doesn't want and jeopardize that,
and so it's easy for me to say, like, you know,
fight and I was just curious if you'd had any
of that I do, you know, like Mendes is big
in the honey, you know, it's like more of these
you know, m m A wrestling, you know, crossover celebrities,
and I think it's it's good. It helps kind of

(44:16):
show that there's a reason and and the big movement
for like natural food and meat and like knowing where
your food comes from is a is another you know,
good point that we can all make as we you know,
it seems like, you know, every day we're losing more
and more of that, right or the ability you know,
you saying you're from Colorado, Like the fight that we're
we're taking on in Colorado right now is nuts. Like
you know, they're they're labeling at trophy hunting and they

(44:38):
use all these words basically you know that they can
they can describe it in a way where trophy hunting
it's like, that's not what it is. You're twisting words
or it's unfortunate, and you know, it's like every day
we kind of battle to continue on with the lifestyle
that that my family we've a meat off of, you know,

(44:59):
natural go get it yourself meet for as long as
anybody can remember, Like, who has the right to tell
us that we can't do that anymore, you know, through
through ballot measures or whatever it may be.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
Yeah, you know, the stuff going on in Colorado to
me is insane. It's so wrong. And I feel like
the I mean, I think there's a lot of ways
to combat it, and and the best way is to
maybe just continue to stand strong and provide that like
positive message and example of what hunting is and like

(45:31):
you said, you know, that's what's provided for your family
for however long. And I think a lot of people,
you know, are kind of tricked. They use marketing to
trick them into thinking, you know, that that's not what
it is and stuff. But I feel like just having rationable, irrational,
reasonable conversations, Like anybody that I've talked to in person

(45:51):
that I've had a conversation with that it's been like why
do you do that isn't that Like, well, listen, I
can explain to you, like, you know, how much more
ethical it is too for for myself to eat this,
and and how much less waste there is, and you
know what's like these animals, Okay, their options are you know,
they either provide food and meat for my family, or

(46:14):
they're going to die of starvation or or get eaten
by a mountain lion. Like these are kind of the options.
And at the same time, like we're put putting money
back into conservation and making sure that these they're they're
the healthiest populations that they can be and stuff, and
you know, we're we're part of this this ecosystem and
this food chain. Like that's the way that the world's

(46:35):
worked since the beginning. And you know, anytime you can
have a conversation with people like that, I feel like
most people, the vast, vast majority, kind of understand it
a little bit better. You know. I think that when
you maybe try to, you know, fight it, fight it
within a more negative way, when you know they're coming
at you negatively so you're fundingly it doesn't really help.

(46:56):
When you can just explain it, then I feel like
that's where I've seen the most help.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Yeah, and you know last week I was able to
kill that mature mountain liin. And it seems like predators
for some reason, predators bring out more if it's a bear,
if it's a cougar, more so than deer and elk.
And it was nice, you know, ninety nine percent was positive.
But we did have a few people like if that
wasn't attacking you or your lives, talk to your kids,
like shame on you, right, and then you can go
with the guy. But I just did a little research, like, oh,

(47:21):
the guy fishes and eats fish. I'm like, it's the same.
I look at the cougar is the same as the fish, Like,
it's not an egotistical thing. It's like to balance nature. There,
it's a mature tom, another tom's going to take its place.
These toms are going to kill each other if they're
in the same area as trying to like and it's
great table fair. Like my job is to educate like
people like, oh, you just killed the cat, took its hide,

(47:42):
and let like no, I've got fifty five pounds of
cougar meat in my freezer now, and it's amazing. Yeah,
some people are like I even my my family's killed
a lot of deer and elk it's not a lot
of cougar. And they're like, you're gonna eat that. I'm like, yeah,
everybody says it's may and it is. It's just it's
like a lean pork and it's like these things are
well and so you, like you said, you go out
it positive. I could have told the guy like, you know,

(48:04):
go fly a kite. You're you're killing innocent fish that
aren't attacking your family, but that didn't do me any good. Like,
hey know, we processed it, we packed the whole thing out.
We were going to eat it as a family, and
everybody was like you know you And then the guy
responded like, oh that that makes more sense, and like, well,
at least I hope it's from an area that can
sustain your heart. I'm like, yeah, trust me that I

(48:25):
have a shortage of big cats.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing too. Like I just feel like, one,
like there needs to be more just reasonable conversations and
more education because I think one people don't realize most
of the time, people don't realize that this is like
what we're eating to sustain us, you know, whether it
is a you know, an elk or a deer or

(48:48):
a predator or a bear or a cougar. It's like
people don't really realize that. So I think they need
to be educated on that. And also people don't understand
that the way that conservation works and hunting and how
they align it's like for the benefit of every of Yeah,
like I don't. It's it's wild to me that people think,
like you're gonna hunt these animals so they go extinct.

(49:10):
It's like, first off, there's a ton of them, yeah, everywhere,
and they're they're they're actually you know, they need to
be hunted and they need to be managed. Yeah. And secondly,
you know, if if their population, if there's too much,
that's that's a huge negative consequence in itself, right, like
you know, you look and deer like the chronic wasting
disease and stuff like that, that's that's terrible, Like you
don't want that type of stuff to happen, or just

(49:31):
you know, getting hit by cars like Pennsylvania is one
of the worst things for that just because of the
of the way it goes. But yeah, I mean the
education piece I think can't be uh can't be overstated, Like.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
You said, the conservation side of it is, Yeah, we
ultimately want a lot of deer and elk on the ground,
but I want like the maximum carry capacity and if
by like the North American Malla, wildlife like predators need
to be managed as well to increase that. And so
it's like, if you truly care about the deer in
the elk and the like, the best way to like
have the most of these if you you know, if
you're a naysayer these free cute, little cuddly critters on

(50:05):
the ground them is to let us feel, you know,
kill a few cats and not not shun that. And
so I've always said it like us as hunters care
the most about having the most game on the land
anyways and treating them. So it's like, yeah, but but
I I agree back to your point, like going it
some of these naysayers with a positive mentality instead of

(50:26):
being negative and kind of going at their throat at times,
is it pencils out better for us and is a
better look overall for sure?

Speaker 2 (50:33):
Mm hmm, yeah, absolutely, So.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
This is kind of a repeat question. But like that
mental the mental preparation, you know, we we talk everybody
looks at wrestlers and it's like, Oh, they're physical, they're
in great shape, they're strong, they're they're skilled. How does
like the mental preparation for wrestling and m M a
kind of compare to hunting? You know, that ability to
never give up and that mental strength that that a
wrestler is going to have or somebody at your level

(51:00):
is going to have. For sure.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Yeah, you know, I think there's there's so many different
answers to that and so many different things that apply.
I would say that for me right now, at this
stage in my career, something that's been really important for
me that we have touched on already is to focus
on the process, not focus on the results. And so
I feel like doing that has given me basically the

(51:24):
best chance of success because I don't get discouraged, I
don't get down, and you know what, I like to
have every single tag that I ever owned to fill
it and have one hundred percent success, And yeah, of
course I got and you know that's that's definitely the goal.
But for me, it's more about improving getting better as

(51:45):
a hunter. And I know the more time I put
in and the more opportunities that I give myself and
the more times I put myself in a good position,
the more success that I'll have and the more goals
that I'll reach. And it's not a it's not a sprint, right,
Like it's a marathon. Like I'm gonna be able to
hunt for a long long time. And it's kind of

(52:07):
similar to my MMA career, where you know, I'm not
in a rush. Yeah, my goals are to be UFC
champion and the pou pound number one fighter in the world,
but I know that it takes a lot of work
and time and effort to get to that point and
and and the way that I'll get there the fastest
is just by every single day improving, getting a little

(52:27):
bit better, putting time into my craft. And so I
think that with hunting, you know, I don't any time
I go to hunt, Yeah, like I would like to
kill the biggest animal possible, and I want to you know,
be able to make a good shot and stuff. But
that's just by the way I'm going to do that
is by putting one foot in front of the other

(52:48):
and being disciplined and again having good fundamentals and keeping
a cool head and just you know, worrying about the
next step, not wearing out. You know what that amount's
going to look like up on my wall.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
Yeah, and you mentioned some early in that about like
enjoying the process not the outcome. We get to talk
to thousands of hunt you knows, we're trade shows or
we're doing a seminar here or there, and you always
get you know, it's kind of the the cliche story
is like, man, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna learn
how to call because I'm gonna draw this tag in
nine or ten years, you know. And we me and Derk,

(53:26):
my marketing manager, a lot of these things were like
take a step back, like when you want to when
you do draw this tag, when you want to have
a few cows under your belt and maybe a few
rag horns under your belt, and like don't don't avoid
the opportunity and look at this like prize at the end,
Like for me, I want to I want to fill
my freezer, and there's so much more opportunity out there,
and it's a it's a little I'm kind of kind

(53:46):
of pulling at this, but like, don't don't feel like
you need to kill the biggest six point bowl on
the mountain or the big like go out there and
learn your craft, like own your craft, because if you're
waiting ten years to draw a tag number one, you're
not going to be very good when you finally do
have the premium tag in your pocket or the chance,
you're gonna probably blow it because you didn't put in

(54:07):
the work for the last ten years when you should
have been out there chasing cows or spikes or raghorns
or whatever you had the opportunity to. And that's I
think social media doesn't do any new hunters favors because
they see the likes of and I've been doing this
my entire life, right, Like it's unfair for you to
look and say you know this guy or not saying

(54:28):
me even all these other guys that hunt, and that's
all we do, like killing it. It's like it taking
It's taken a lot of time to get to the
point where I'm comfortable and passing a lot of smaller
bulls because trust me, if I showed you the first
ten years of I was successful early on, but a
bunch of little teeny raghorns, like teeny little bulls, and
and I cut my teeth on those and that's what

(54:48):
made me, you know, be to the level where I
am now where I don't mind letting those go now
because I know you know, and and so yeah, I think,
like you said, you're getting better every day you're in
the Jim. I think, hunters, we only have so much
time in September, so it's even more magnified, right, you
only get so many Septembers, like you need to be
out hunting, learning hunting your craft so that you get

(55:11):
better on a very shortened scale.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
Absolutely, I couldn't agree with that more. The experience, to me,
especially right now, is what's most valuable, and that's what
I appreciate the most, you know, Like when when I
look back at the hunting experiences that I have had,
it's been the camaraderie with the guys I've been with
and what I'm what we've been able to do, and
and also you know, like me making good decisions and

(55:38):
putting myself in a good position like that, that's what
I think is cool. I'm like, oh man, like either
either on the positive or negative, like oh man, I
really should have done that differently, or oh I should
have done this or that, and that's like now I'm
like that's cool, Like I learned that now I'm never
going to make that mistake again, or wow, like, oh
look at I did this and it worked out. That's
that's really cool how that worked out. Oh maybe there's
something to learn there too, and to take with me

(56:00):
next hunt. So that's really I think what's the most
valuable just being able to like feel confident in those
situations and just experience, like you said.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah, adapt and and I'm the say you know, people
ask me all the time like I'm supposed to know
the answer to every situation, have the right answer. I'm like,
trust me, I fail more than I succeed. Out there
still is a guy that you know, was supposed to
know all about elk hunting, and I'm like, it's just
it's it's just elk hunting. And and I'm either chalking
it up to a lesson learned or like you said that, hey,
I've made the right decision that time and worked out

(56:30):
in my favor. And we're going to talk a little
bit about more that mental. But the other thing is
I've been doing this long enough where you know, the
same as in a fight, you might be down by
a point, you know, if a minute and the clock's
running out, like you've been there enough though and overcome
that that you don't get frazzled or like, I don't
get frustrated on a seven day hunt because I know
that it's only going to take one. And so like,

(56:52):
my mental game is is unbreakable on a hunt because
I've been there, I've seen that it only takes one
and so I'm just waiting for that one to make,
you know, a mistake or things to go my way.
And you know, that's one of the biggest things where
just tons of experience and being being in that position
helps me wear a new guy. They're like, I'm not

(57:12):
hiking around these mountains anymore. There's no WLK out here,
or this has been bad three days, nothing's working in
my favor. I'm done, you know. And so, yeah, the
mental game is is huge in hunting as well.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
Yeah, for sure. You know, people I think they just
get frustrated way too easily. And you know that, like
you said, it's a perfect example, but you only need
one mistake, you know, you only need them to make one.
You need one little wind sliver of opportunity and you
know you can make it happen. And that's the I
think people, Uh no, maybe I think that that probably

(57:47):
boils down to just wanting the result. They just maybe
want to meet the freezer or they just want the
mount on the wall, and that's not what hunting is about.
You know, you want to do that, it's not hunting.
I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
I'm more worried about our younger generation. I mean, you're
you're younger than me, but you you know, you're wrestling background,
You've obviously came up the right way. But this instant gratification,
you know, group that's coming through like hunting is gonna be,
They're gonna really struggle because it's not ever gonna unless
you're on some private ranch, which I'm not against, but
like the outcome is you're gonna it's gonna be like

(58:22):
everything else we do in life, where your your outcome
is gonna you know, you're gonna have to hit the
time punch of time clock, put in the work, do
the work in order to get results consistently. And yeah,
I've always wondered, like my kid, I can see it
in them a little bit, like like I just want
to They just want to like kill on the first
day and sometimes be done. And it's like no, this

(58:42):
is like a process. This is a grind. It's supposed
to be like this, you know, and then expanding on
that where it's like, all right, now you killed your
first buck yet it was a good little four point,
but let's go try to find something bigger and like
challenge ourselves. And he's like, no, I want to just
kill you know, I'm fine with that as long as
it happens on day one again, you know. And so
it's like like you can always challenge yourself to get

(59:03):
you know better. Now I don't want to. I'm never
won the back away from sport hunting, but I've always
felt like you challenge yourself taking more mature animals always,
you know, something that we do. But yeah, it's interesting
to see if if these you know, teens and early
twenty guys, you know, are going to be able to
like put in and grind on some of these hard
hunts that kind of what I thrive on.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
But right, yeah, it's it. I think you're you're spot
on with, you know, the the instant gratification and that
just seems you know, a product of social media and
kind of the way that the world is working nowadays.
It's like you know, you look at Uber eats and
instat cart and stuff. You have to hit a button
and then dinner's delivered to you. Now it's like just

(59:46):
crazy stuff like that. And I feel like really fortunate
that it wasn't like that for me with wrestling or
you know, it didn't just come right away and I
was I had to put a lot of time and
effort in and work hard. So now I just really
relate everything to that. And hunting for me has been
kind of similar, like you know there, I think, like
you said, that there's a time for for both. There's

(01:00:09):
a time for you know, private land ranch hunts where
you know you're going to get opportunity and it might
be the first day and like you know, I think
that that you're going to have success and there's a
time for that. There's also a time for you know,
getting in the back country or on public land and
doing it yourself and it's going to take some time
and maybe you don't see anything. And I think that

(01:00:29):
they're both. They're both to me just as valuable, and
you know, I would hope that there's people that can
continue in that mindset. I think, like you said, it's
it's going to be more difficult, just with the way
the world works nowadays. But I see a lot of
value in that for for myself, and so I just

(01:00:51):
feel fortunate hopefully that I have a son now once
he gets old enough to be able to share those
lessons with him, and you know, hopefully the same thing
with my friends and their kids and things like that,
that you know, we can we can hopefully continue these, uh,
these lessons and help kind of pass that down in
some way.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
Yeah. Yeah, So today, is there a hunt that stands
out to you more so than than another? Like, if
you if there's one that you think about or that

(01:01:29):
you're like, that was pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Yeah, you know, I think that I've been really fortunate.
You know, I've only one hundred a few years and
I've had a lot of success, and I think that
mostly has to do with the people that I've been
able to surround myself with. I've just been really fortunate
to be around really good guys and really good experienced
hunters who who you know, just have the right type

(01:01:52):
of mindset and I've been able to learn with from them,
and so, you know, I have a lot of a
lot of gratitude for all of my hunt I think
that my first archery kill was probably like what I
really think about. So I went to uh, West Virginia.
I was hunting white tail in an area and uh

(01:02:14):
my buddy, so I had never hunted there before. My
buddy had hunted there for a few years. And it
was one of those you know, we we were there
for three days and it was like we got there
and it's like eighty degrees and we're like, Frank, what
are we going to do? Like this is not good?
And uh, you know, and and also in an area
like he knew a little bit, but like neither of

(01:02:35):
us knew it super well. So we were kind of
just trying to get after it, trying to get get
some action, and it wasn't looking good, and it was
you know, we really saw nothing. We saw one deer
about one hundred and fifty yards off that was gone
in a second on the and then uh, it got
to the last morning, so we're gonna be I think

(01:02:58):
leaving around noon and so we had, you know, maybe
another hour left to hunt, and my buddy and I
we had been kind of doing a little bit of
hunting together, a little bit of splitting up, and he
was like, all right, how about you know, you post
up here, I'll maybe like circle around see if we
can get anything moving. And I was like, all right,
let's do it. And this was yeah, like I said,

(01:03:21):
you know, I this was like my first time archery hunting.
I mean I had sat in some stands and stuff
in PA, but never like took a shot at anything.
And so you know, he kind of was still like
taking the lead, you know, helping me a lot. And
he was like set up, set me up here. And
then he like kind of went around and I was
on like the top of a like kind of a

(01:03:42):
big hill and it was wooded. I was like, you
know what, I don't really like the spot, Like I'm
gonna go down a little bit. So I went down
probably like fifty yards and I just kind of sat
myself in between these two trees and I had like
a thicket on my left, and so I ranged a
few areas and I had like a few good shooting
lanes and it was just like and I was just
kind of like, all right, I'm just gonna enjoy being

(01:04:05):
here nature sitting. It's all good. You know, Pray a
little bit and just thank God for me being able
to just be out out and you know, now we're
going and we're gonna go home empty handed, but it's
all good.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
And I was just kind of in the middle of thought,
and about eight yards from me, he walks out, walks
a little white tail and it's him. And then I
got that thicket, that bush in between me and him,
and he just walks right by me, and I'm like,
immediately just like heart thumping, like losing it. And so

(01:04:36):
he's he's kind of walking at an angle in front
of me, and so I have a big tree in
front of me, so I know he's gonna walk out
on the other side, and so I already had it ranged,
and so I'm sitting down and as he walks by
the tree, I draw back and I'm waiting for him
to come out. And it felt like it was an
eternity and it was probably ten seconds. And so he

(01:04:57):
comes out and almost exactly play perfectly where I thought
he would. He was at thirty two yards and sent
the arrow, and it just seemed like everything happened so
fast it was insane. And he kind of jumped and
kicked and took off, and I was just my heart's thumping,
and so I waited there for probably like ten minutes,

(01:05:19):
fifteen minutes, and I was like, I don't think I
could wait anymore. Let me, let me go find my arrow.
So I go up and I find my arrow and
it's like, you know, full blood on the fletchings, looks
like lung, and I'm like, this is perfect, let's go.
And so then I sit there another like five minutes
or so. It's been like twenty minutes, and mind you might,
there's no service, so I can't tell my friend or anything,

(01:05:41):
and so I'm just like, all right, let's see if
like there's decent blood. And there was like really good blood,
and so I'm like, I'll follow this. And so I
felt followed it down the mountain and maybe forty yards
down behind the tree, the buck was right there, and
I was just.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
Like, oh my god, this is insane.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
I can't believe this happened, like last second, like hail Mary.
And it worked out, and so then I'm like, all right,
that hill is pretty steep. So then I'm like, okay,
I'm just gonna drag this dude back up a ways
to some flat area so we can we can gut
him and stuff. And so I'm like dragging him and
I'm halfway back up the hill and my buddy comes
walking up and he looks at me and I'm just

(01:06:20):
like we did it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
And he's like, oh my gosh, no way, like.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
That's crazy, and then we just he ran up to
me be celebrated. But yeah, it was a public land
whitetail on the ground was my first archery kill, so
I was pretty pretty pumped about that one.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
That's awesome. Yeah, I think everybody remembers their first dear
is like, yeah, you know one that you'll never forget.
Do you have any dream hunts? Like, is you think
you know, as you're growing into this, like is there
something that just like out there, they're like, man, I
want to do that someday.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Yeah, honestly I have. I have a bunch, you know.
I think my favorite, my favorite animal to hunt is
elk for sure. You know I'm gonna be that's gonna
be like my bread and butter. That's definitely what I'm
gonna be spent spending the most time on from here
on out. And I've been able to be on a
few good elk hunts fortunately, and you know that's I'm
excited to chase elk as long as I can, and

(01:07:11):
you know, I'm I'm gonna be doing a brown bear
hunt coastal brown bear here in May, so super pumped
about that. I and all my hunts, you know, I
don't I want to continue to do all bow hunting,
so you know, I just love being up close and
personal with the animal. So that's something that I'm really
excited about. I would love to do a lion hunt
at some point, mountain lion, so you know, that's something

(01:07:33):
that I'm real, uh, real interested in. But I think, yeah,
the main thing I want to do is elk, but
I could I could see myself getting into the predators
as well, So that's something I feel like it's kind
of cool just because of the different mindset, right, Like
you know, they're they're not prey like they're they're looking
for their meals too, and I like the idea of
having of like seeing you know, seeing that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
Yeah, it's uh, I love it all. I was actually
almost at the Portland show book the coastal brown bear
hunt up on the Peninsula for May, but it was
just too short and I already had a bunch of
turkey hunting. That's everybody's gonna be like, man, you traded
turkey hunting for a brown bear for Turkey unting, but
I already had it planned and though it is, it is,
but it's like brown Bear is one of my like

(01:08:17):
dream animals too, so well, we'll get it on the books.
You know. This year, I'm gonna do Dull Sheep, which
was you know, the mountain animals have always kind of
been been cool, so we're gonna get that out of
the way. And then yeah, you know, talking about dream
hunts and Elk like that's I was just I think
you would release your Instagram video from last year you
hunted with l Oh Outfitters in New Mexico, and I'm like, oh,
shooter using one of our tubes, And that's why I

(01:08:38):
just kind of reached out. I'm like, hey, would you
ever be interested in in planning a hunt as me
and Dirk we're trying to get our year and so
we're actually looking we're going to apply and with l
Oh again and see if we can't draw tag this
year and go to New Mexico. So I'm looking forward
to that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
Yeah, dude, that's gonna be awesome. Man, I'm super pumped.
That was really Uh, it was a really fun hunt,
really beautiful country as well. There's some some really good
elk down there.

Speaker 1 (01:09:04):
So yeah, we have a the last Yeah, it's gonna
be awesome. So, you know, since sometimes I struggle, since
I've hunted my whole life and so there's never been
like somebody who's interested in starting hunting. So what would
you what advice would you give somebody who's interested in
starting hunting but doesn't maybe know where to begin.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
No, that's a great question. I think that where I
started depending on what you want to do, right, Like
if you want to rifle hunt, if you want to
bow hunt, I'll obviously like bow hunting is getting more
and more popular. A lot of people want to hunt archery,
and so I feel like finding a good if you
want to hunt archery, finding a really good archery shop

(01:09:44):
is important. You know, do research and figure out where
you can go, even if you have to drive aways.
Like I drive about two hours down to Lancaster Archery
and they have a great shop, and they were the
ones that originally helped get me set up and stuff,
and I still go back. So you know, I think
that's something that's so valuable is finding a good archery

(01:10:05):
shop and getting yourself a good setup that you're comfortable with.
I think that in addition to that, YouTube is such
a good resource. You know. I think that I study
a lot of film for fighting, and I studied for wrestling,
and it's the same with me for hunting. I think
that you know, you can find a lot of pieces
that are super educational, you know, just just just search

(01:10:30):
it up on YouTube. There's a lot of good resources
and whatever you're looking to do, even even stuff like uh,
packless for gear stuff like that, that's just simple that
you probably don't even have to think of that type
of thing anymore. But you know, like for me, I'm
like some of these trips, I'm like, what do I
even what do I What should I bring you? That's
type stuff like that's important. And I think also if

(01:10:52):
you know, there's a lot of hunting videos out there
that are like, you know, twenty minutes and they're showing uh,
they're they're they're showing the hunt and stuff, then it's
it's going to culminate with the kill. Try to like
pick out little details that you see outside of like
just the shot. Like I think people maybe fast forward
and rewind that they just watched the kill and it's like, dude,

(01:11:13):
there's so much valuable information in that twenty minute video
of like like, for instance, a good like it's something
that I learned this last year that might seem so simple,
but it's just like obviously we know the wind, like
we don't want to get scented, But where's the sun at?
Like is the sun facing there like the animal or
is it facing you? Like are you in the shade?
Are you like just something like this simple like that,

(01:11:35):
like you're like, wow, okay, now I'm gonna position myself
in the shade and have the sunshine. Animal like they're
not going to seem you know, obviously you know wind
is first, but you know, those type of things you
can learn through experience and maybe you mess up or
you can learn from somebody else's experience, and and so
I think those things are really important. And lastly, just

(01:11:56):
like don't be afraid just get out there right like
whether whether you if you're out east, like you know
you might have to be sitting in a stand, like
just get out as many day as you can go
sit in a stand, go go, you know, mess with
where your setup is and just try to dink around
and hunt the same area for sure. Like you know,
if you're bouncing back and forth between a hundred different

(01:12:17):
areas and you think, oh, I just got to move
to an area to find success, like maybe just figure
out how to hunt one area, and you know, I
think that's that's really important. But like just put yourself,
put yourself out there. Like if you've got to go
the whole season and don't see a thing, like that's
going to be valuable information for you to learn next
year to put yourself in better position.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
So yeah, yeah, that's you you touch on a little bit,
just like your time in the field is important because
you can you can learn a lot from YouTube, podcasts,
whatever it may be. There's a lot more information out
now than when I was learning to do it thirty
years ago. Kind of just had to make my own playbook.
But there's so much information out there. But I've got
the same guys that come to my seminar as year

(01:12:57):
after year and don't find success, And I know I'm
telling them everything that I do, and then it's really
like you need to go out and take these little bits,
but then like develop your own system or figure it
out for yourself. In a way. And a lot of
that just comes down the time. And I get it.
A lot of us have busy lives or they'd rather
take their you know, a couple of weeks of vacation
with their family. I don't blame you at all, but
in the end, like time in the field is invaluable

(01:13:20):
compared to you know, YouTube, but it can't help fill
the pieces in or at least send you in the
right direction.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
Yeah. The way the way I look at videos is
you know, for me, Archie Elk, it's like I got September,
so there's eleven more months where I need to improve
and get better, So that that's the supplement, right, Like
the most valuable for sure is that month is getting
out there experience. And I think too, you know, talk
to people, ask them questions, like you know, I think

(01:13:47):
most there's there's some hunters that maybe yeah, they're not
gonna take you to their best spot and set you up,
but they're gonna give you good information and and and
then you know, kind of like I said too, I
feel like maybe people hunt like ten different or like
one year they hunt this spot, they don't have success,
so they go to a new spot. It's like you

(01:14:09):
can figure out one spot, figure out, just figure out
how to hunt it. And if you know there are
animals there, you know, just work that spot and you're
going to learn a lot. You know, if you just
try to bounce back and forth, it's always going to
be different. Like if you go hunt let's say you're
hunting elk, it's going to be different in Colorado and
New Mexico and Utah, like and even in a different
unit it's gonna be it's gonna be so different. Try

(01:14:31):
to try to get out there as much as possible,
and if you don't have success at one spot, that
doesn't mean that's not a good spot.

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):
Yeah. Yeah, the grass isn't always greener. And one thing
we always say is like don't leave elk to find olk,
Like you're there, you just need to figure out the area.
But a great point. So last question for you here,
I know I want to be respectful of your time.
Busy guy with a new kid and training and everything.
So how do you balance your hunting pursuits with your
you know, your training and your hunting commitments, Like how

(01:14:57):
are you able to you know, like some NFL star
struggle because they're playing football all season, so they're maybe
getting the weekend and I have to kind of laugh.
I watched the video of CHL who's always critical of everybody,
Like the video is like, is bo still honeing right?
Because some people say you took a lot of time
off from your last fight, but it's you know, you
had a baby coming. There's reasons. But I kind of

(01:15:18):
had to laugh. It's like and now you're on the
UFC three hundred card, but like back to the original question,
like how are you balancing you know, hunting with with
your training and you know, your your events.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
Yeah, you know, it's definitely not easy. And I saw
that video that Shell put out too. I thought that
was hilarious. But yeah, I think that the most important
part for me is just making sure I'm building it
out and planning in advance. Like like I told my wife, like, okay,
listen September, don't even like it's it's locked in, Like

(01:15:52):
that's That's what I'm doing. And and you know, there
might have to be sacrifices that you make otherwise. So
like I've told her, I think communicating is important. And
I told her I'm like, listen, I'm not going to
like this is what I want to do. This is
what I'm passionate about. This, I want to pursue outside
my career. This is the thing that you know, really

(01:16:12):
just gets me pumped up. So I'm not going to
take you know, these I'm not going to be taking
other trips throughout the year and you know, dinking around
and doing other stuff that's not as important to me.
So I'm sacrificing certain things. So now I have time
where I have this month of dedication towards hunting. And

(01:16:33):
the other thing is that's nice for me is I'm
able to schedule my fights. So guess what we're fighting
end of July or August, So you know, I get
that fight and then straight to hunting and now I'm
got some time off and then I'm back to camp.
So basically, I'm just building that into my schedule. And
I know not everybody's able to do that, like take

(01:16:53):
a month off and stuff, but you know, you might
be able to take a week, you might be able
to take three days. And so I think whatever it
looks like for that individual, you just got to plan ahead,
build it out, and be willing to sacrifice you know,
maybe some other things, maybe you know your boys want
to take a weekend trip or they want this and that.
It's like, you know what, man like that would be

(01:17:15):
a great time, but you know I got to sacrifice
that because I'm taking a weekend and here to go hunt.
So that's something I think. It's just it's a big
priority for me, So I I align my time h
correctly right, Like you know, it's it's really important for
me to have time to hunt, so you know, other

(01:17:35):
things I'm not going to put as much as much
time into and I just build it into my schedule now.
It's not even really a second thought. It's just like
that's how it's going to work.

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
How much flexibility do you have on like turning fights
down off one showed up in September it was a
fight you really wanted to take. Would you have to
rethink or would you just push it off to the
next event if possible?

Speaker 2 (01:17:54):
You know, I think I'm a big planner, So for me,
I'm not interested in, like the short note fights. I
know a lot of people do them and take them
and stuff, and for me, I want to plan and
get ready and prep and and I don't care a
lot like a lot of people. You know, yeah, at
the end of the day I fight. I'm a prize fighter,
so I get a check at the end of the day,

(01:18:14):
but that's not why I fight. So they could offer
me ten million bucks and if I don't want to
take the fight and I'm in the mountains chasing elk,
then that's what I'm gonna be doing. So the money
thing is not really a big motivator for me. So
the other things are are a lot more important, And

(01:18:35):
I think that's why people kind of do those short
notice fights a lot of times, is oh, this is
my only opportunity and it's a big check for me.
You know, I don't have that mindset. I'm not I
don't have the scarcy mindset. I'm going to have more
opportunity in the future, and the money is not a
huge priority, you know. I just I want to do
what's best for my career. So yeah, I'm not like
the short notice I'm more of a planner.

Speaker 1 (01:18:56):
Yeah, good good. So we're gonna wrap this up. So
April thirteenth, you mentioned you watch a lot of film.
Are you will in the Cody Brendage. Are you thinking
like stand up wrestling or you're not gonna not gonna
show any cards here.

Speaker 2 (01:19:10):
No, you know, I think that for me, wrestling is
always going to be my bread and butter, my bass.
You know, anybody that fights me is going to have
to train months and months of wrestling just to try
to get ready for me, which in my opinion is
a waste because they're never going to catch up. But again,
it's it's the same thing as hunting. It's back to
those fundamentals and making sure that wherever we go in

(01:19:31):
the fight, that I have the fundamentals to be able
to take advantage of that situation and to be able
to put myself in good position. So you know, I
never really have a I have a plan and a
strategy going into the fight, but really, wherever the situation,
wherever the fight goes, whatever situation I'm in, I'm going
to be well prepared and so I might knock him out,

(01:19:53):
I might submit him. You know, it could be a
decision if he if he's able to hang in there
for me, with me for fifteen minutes. So you know,
I'm not really nervous or worried about wherever it goes.
I don't. I have many many paths to win to victory.
So yeah, that for me, I'm I'm just ready to compete.
I'm excited, I'm fired up, gotcha.

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
So Jamaiah, when when when he says that you're not
wrestling for points, you're still saying that it's very very
useful techniques inside the cage.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
One hundred percent. You know, I think what it's funny
because the conversation with him and everybody else is, oh,
I smash this guy. Smash this guy one round, I
smash this guy. And with me, he says, oh, maybe
if he takes me down, I'll get back up. So
I can already see the shift in the mindset. Like
he knows who bet a wrestler is, he knows who

(01:20:43):
like his biggest strength, Like I completely outclass him in that.
So I think that that to me, it's more of
a compliment. It says a lot that you know, he
knows I would take him down, and I think that, uh,
you know, for at the same time that that that's
going to be a massive fight. It's an exciting fight,
and he's a really really tough guy, tough opponent does
a lot of things well. So we'll match up at

(01:21:05):
some point in the future and I'll be ready.

Speaker 1 (01:21:07):
I can't wait to see that one. Well, good luck
in your upcoming fight. We'll get get through that one first,
and then I really look forward to joining you this
ball or if we can draw a tag or get
some tags and going out to New Mexico. So really
appreciate your time, Bo, good luck in your fights, and
uh yeah, I look forward to seeing how you're kind
of your your hunting career kind of parallels your your
fighting career, and I really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
Yeah, definitely appreciate you having me on. Jason, had a
great time.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
Take care of boatm

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Ep. 77: Bo Nickal - The Wrestler, The Fighter, The Hunter

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 77: Bo Nickal - The Wrestler, The Fighter, The Hunter