June 23, 2020 • 8 mins
Arizona is reopening, coronavirus cases are rising, and masks continue to cause a divide. After pressure from public health officials, Gov. Doug Ducey is allowing local authorities to mandate the use of masks, a call they previously could not make and many have chosen to do so. But now there is a debate whether Arizonans will comply with the orders. Alicia Caldwell, reporter at the WSJ, joins us for the continued fight over wearing facemasks.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Tuesday, jun I'm Oscar Ramiras from the Daily Dive
podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America. We've
shifted into a new phase in the coronavirus pandemic. We're
social distancing, washing your hands, wearing face masks, and we're
reopening the country. I'll still give you updates on any
new information about the virus and vaccine development, but I
(00:20):
will also focus on how we're reopening America. Arizona is reopening.
Coronavirus cases are rising, and masks continue to cause a divide.
After pressure from public health officials, Governor Doug Doocey is
allowing local authorities to mandate the use of masks, a
call they previously could not make, and many have chosen
to do so, But now there's a debate whether Arizonans
(00:42):
will comply with the orders. Alicia Caldwell, reporter for The
Wall Street Journal, joins us for the continued fight over
wearing face mask Thanks for joining us, Alisa, Thanks for
having me. I wanted to talk about face masks as
the country is reopening, but wearing a face mask has
quickly become a very dividing line for a lot of people.
(01:03):
Just people in their everyday lives, and then businesses especially.
There's some businesses that want to make a point you
don't have to wear face max. There's others that say,
you know, it's mandatory. And Arizona is an interesting case
because they are one of the states that are seeing
an uptake in cases. But they also had some weird
rules surrounding face masks. Basically, cities and counties couldn't mandate
(01:25):
on their own that people had to wear them. They
had to follow state rules, which there were none in place,
and just recently the governor there said that cities and
counties can impose those rules now at least to help
us out with the story what's going on in Arizona.
Soon things came to ahead last week as more cities
and counties pressed the governor here Governor DUC to allow
(01:46):
local control or mandate something statewide. With the backdrop of
sky high infection numbers, sky high hospitalizations across the state,
the governor said, hey, we're seeing data on the ground
that tells us that we need a localized approach and
gave that authority to cities and counties, and there was
(02:07):
a wave across the state. Every major city here has
now mandated masks. At the same time, the governor said
he was updating the rules for businesses and required businesses
to have their staff in masks. So that means that restaurants,
all your servers are wearing masks. Social distancing is now
a requirement as opposed to a guideline, which it was before.
(02:31):
It was an encouragement before, and he's repeated his encouragement
to people around state wear masks. He says that's a
matter of personal responsibility to do that, and he's tweeted
a couple of times the hashtag mask up a Z,
but stopped short of a statewide mandate, saying, you know,
they're parts of the state world parts that there's really
not a high infection rate, so we'll leave it to them.
(02:51):
And there are parts of the state that do have
significant issues, including here in Mercube County, in the Phoenix area,
and in Tucson counties along the border were significant upticks
as well. So again, the majority is my understanding of
cities and counties are now at least of cities are
now mandating masks, and then the counties some have gone
to it, some of not. So it's a little bit
(03:12):
of a Hodgepodge reaction in that sense, But overall, the
majority of Arizona residents now are required to wear masks
while out in public. Inclosed places, there's no requirement of course,
if you're out taking a hike or in your swimming
pool that sort of thing to wear masks, but crowded places,
public spaces, indoor places in particular malls, grocery stores, restaurants, bars,
(03:35):
that sort of thing. You spoke to a few business
owners about this, and they themselves were like, we have
about conservative clientele here, and it really just kind of
displayed this political divide with this whole thing. For these
business owners, what was their reasoning for not wanting to
enforce or not wanting to require masks. So I think
(03:56):
you're referring to Larry Wentz, owner of the Buffalo Chip
Saloon and State out in Cave Creek, which is just
north of the city of Phoenix. Cave Creak initially opted
not to mandate masks within their city, but the county,
of course, Smerco the county superseded that into everybody in
the county. So Mr Wynn his approach is he will
(04:16):
abide by the county's rules. There signs all over the
seven acre property, instructing folks that they do need to
wear a mask and highlighting you know when those masks
don't need to be worn when you're eating and drinking.
If you have a health condition or a religious objection
is one of the exemptions here in Arizona. His approach is,
we're following the rules. We're telling people to wear them.
(04:38):
The staff will all wear them. He personally does not.
I spoke to him yesterday during a church service that's
held on his property, out on the back patio, and
he says, you know, at the stage if if he
hasn't gotten it, he may get it, and there's not
much he can do to stop it. He avowledges that
that his tooth take. Many of his customers are politically conservative,
(04:59):
and he's gotten pushed over some of the new rules,
including social distancing. They've got a thirty six square foot
rule per person, so they've limited their capacity. If how
many folks can be there, you know, on a typical
Friday night pre COVID, they would see four thousand people.
They've got live bull riding and other events. Since reopening
in mid May, they're getting about a thousand people on
(05:21):
those Friday night events. Other businesses have taken the opposite approach.
There's a small brewery in Phoenix called Renhouse Brewing Company.
They closed early to in store service at their tack
room early meeting before the state mandated it, and went
to curbside and pick up only. But from the very beginning,
(05:41):
one of their co founders said they required masks, both
of their employees and folks who are coming into pick up.
They've heard, you know, a couple of people say they
object or they've gotten an arrant YELP review here and
there after posting about it on social media. But Drew Pool,
the co founders, said he feels masks are a no
brainer to stop the spread and avoid what everybody wants
(06:04):
to avoid, which is a second shutdown. That's the interesting
part that I know, these limits on capacity at restaurants
and some of these places is very tough for a
lot of places. They want to get back to normal
the way they were before. You know, you want to
make the same amount of money and you need a
large amount of people in there to meet that. But
on the other side of it too, you know, it's
kind of a slow ramp up to get back to normal.
And see how things go is So it is a
(06:25):
tough situation for business owners on both sides. And it's
not just in Arizona. You made mention of Texas and Nebraska,
which is also dealing with some of these similar types
of issues. So much so in Nebraska was interesting that
the governor was saying that he would withhold federal coronavirus
aid from counties that did mandate masks in the state.
I mean, that's just kind of weird. Everybody's got a
(06:46):
different approach. You know, Arizona has got a very independent streak.
It's very libertarian. They've historically voted Republican by and large,
you know, at the state level and certainly in prosidential elections.
Avoid the last time voters here voted do elected Democrat
President President Bill Clinton. Prior to that, it was Franklin
Roosevelt tells you the time span. But Arizona is now
(07:06):
about aground state. You know, you've got a Democratic U. S. Senator,
a sitting Republican U. S. Senator as well as who's
facing a tough challenge from a Democrat, and you're starting
to see the purpleness of Arizona come out. And it's
viewed by everyone at the stage of the battleground state,
and you're seeing those battleground lines being drawn again. Some
(07:28):
folks share I talk to you said it's a matter
of one of personal liberty. If they are sick or
if their doctor recommends a treatment including a mask, bill oblige.
But the City Council of Phoenix, that's not made up
of doctors, and certainly they're not their personal physician, so no,
they don't feel like they have the authority. And others
have said this is also a concern about their health,
(07:48):
that they have concerns about whether wearing a mask will
impact their health negatively. There's not science that I've read
in any volume that suggests that there are health issues
related to masks. Certainly a lot of people have that
firm belief, and they also again come down to a
personal liberty issue, and they simply object to being told
(08:09):
how to comport themselves outdoors or in public in this environment.
At least a calledwell reporter at the Wall Street Journal,
thank you very much for joining us. All right, thank you.
I'm Oscar Ramirez, and this is reopening America. Don't forget that.
For today's big news stories, you can check me out
in the Daily Dive podcast every Monday to Friday, so
(08:30):
follow us in I Heart Radio or wherever you get
your podcast
It's Tuesday, jun I'm Oscar Ramiras from the Daily Dive
podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America. We've
shifted into a new phase in the coronavirus pandemic. We're
social distancing, washing your hands, wearing face masks, and we're
reopening the country. I'll still give you updates on any
new information about the virus and vaccine development, but I
(00:20):
will also focus on how we're reopening America. Arizona is reopening.
Coronavirus cases are rising, and masks continue to cause a divide.
After pressure from public health officials, Governor Doug Doocey is
allowing local authorities to mandate the use of masks, a
call they previously could not make, and many have chosen
to do so, But now there's a debate whether Arizonans
(00:42):
will comply with the orders. Alicia Caldwell, reporter for The
Wall Street Journal, joins us for the continued fight over
wearing face mask Thanks for joining us, Alisa, Thanks for
having me. I wanted to talk about face masks as
the country is reopening, but wearing a face mask has
quickly become a very dividing line for a lot of people.
(01:03):
Just people in their everyday lives, and then businesses especially.
There's some businesses that want to make a point you
don't have to wear face max. There's others that say,
you know, it's mandatory. And Arizona is an interesting case
because they are one of the states that are seeing
an uptake in cases. But they also had some weird
rules surrounding face masks. Basically, cities and counties couldn't mandate
(01:25):
on their own that people had to wear them. They
had to follow state rules, which there were none in place,
and just recently the governor there said that cities and
counties can impose those rules now at least to help
us out with the story what's going on in Arizona.
Soon things came to ahead last week as more cities
and counties pressed the governor here Governor DUC to allow
(01:46):
local control or mandate something statewide. With the backdrop of
sky high infection numbers, sky high hospitalizations across the state,
the governor said, hey, we're seeing data on the ground
that tells us that we need a localized approach and
gave that authority to cities and counties, and there was
(02:07):
a wave across the state. Every major city here has
now mandated masks. At the same time, the governor said
he was updating the rules for businesses and required businesses
to have their staff in masks. So that means that restaurants,
all your servers are wearing masks. Social distancing is now
a requirement as opposed to a guideline, which it was before.
(02:31):
It was an encouragement before, and he's repeated his encouragement
to people around state wear masks. He says that's a
matter of personal responsibility to do that, and he's tweeted
a couple of times the hashtag mask up a Z,
but stopped short of a statewide mandate, saying, you know,
they're parts of the state world parts that there's really
not a high infection rate, so we'll leave it to them.
(02:51):
And there are parts of the state that do have
significant issues, including here in Mercube County, in the Phoenix area,
and in Tucson counties along the border were significant upticks
as well. So again, the majority is my understanding of
cities and counties are now at least of cities are
now mandating masks, and then the counties some have gone
to it, some of not. So it's a little bit
(03:12):
of a Hodgepodge reaction in that sense, But overall, the
majority of Arizona residents now are required to wear masks
while out in public. Inclosed places, there's no requirement of course,
if you're out taking a hike or in your swimming
pool that sort of thing to wear masks, but crowded places,
public spaces, indoor places in particular malls, grocery stores, restaurants, bars,
(03:35):
that sort of thing. You spoke to a few business
owners about this, and they themselves were like, we have
about conservative clientele here, and it really just kind of
displayed this political divide with this whole thing. For these
business owners, what was their reasoning for not wanting to
enforce or not wanting to require masks. So I think
(03:56):
you're referring to Larry Wentz, owner of the Buffalo Chip
Saloon and State out in Cave Creek, which is just
north of the city of Phoenix. Cave Creak initially opted
not to mandate masks within their city, but the county,
of course, Smerco the county superseded that into everybody in
the county. So Mr Wynn his approach is he will
(04:16):
abide by the county's rules. There signs all over the
seven acre property, instructing folks that they do need to
wear a mask and highlighting you know when those masks
don't need to be worn when you're eating and drinking.
If you have a health condition or a religious objection
is one of the exemptions here in Arizona. His approach is,
we're following the rules. We're telling people to wear them.
(04:38):
The staff will all wear them. He personally does not.
I spoke to him yesterday during a church service that's
held on his property, out on the back patio, and
he says, you know, at the stage if if he
hasn't gotten it, he may get it, and there's not
much he can do to stop it. He avowledges that
that his tooth take. Many of his customers are politically conservative,
(04:59):
and he's gotten pushed over some of the new rules,
including social distancing. They've got a thirty six square foot
rule per person, so they've limited their capacity. If how
many folks can be there, you know, on a typical
Friday night pre COVID, they would see four thousand people.
They've got live bull riding and other events. Since reopening
in mid May, they're getting about a thousand people on
(05:21):
those Friday night events. Other businesses have taken the opposite approach.
There's a small brewery in Phoenix called Renhouse Brewing Company.
They closed early to in store service at their tack
room early meeting before the state mandated it, and went
to curbside and pick up only. But from the very beginning,
(05:41):
one of their co founders said they required masks, both
of their employees and folks who are coming into pick up.
They've heard, you know, a couple of people say they
object or they've gotten an arrant YELP review here and
there after posting about it on social media. But Drew Pool,
the co founders, said he feels masks are a no
brainer to stop the spread and avoid what everybody wants
(06:04):
to avoid, which is a second shutdown. That's the interesting
part that I know, these limits on capacity at restaurants
and some of these places is very tough for a
lot of places. They want to get back to normal
the way they were before. You know, you want to
make the same amount of money and you need a
large amount of people in there to meet that. But
on the other side of it too, you know, it's
kind of a slow ramp up to get back to normal.
And see how things go is So it is a
(06:25):
tough situation for business owners on both sides. And it's
not just in Arizona. You made mention of Texas and Nebraska,
which is also dealing with some of these similar types
of issues. So much so in Nebraska was interesting that
the governor was saying that he would withhold federal coronavirus
aid from counties that did mandate masks in the state.
I mean, that's just kind of weird. Everybody's got a
(06:46):
different approach. You know, Arizona has got a very independent streak.
It's very libertarian. They've historically voted Republican by and large,
you know, at the state level and certainly in prosidential elections.
Avoid the last time voters here voted do elected Democrat
President President Bill Clinton. Prior to that, it was Franklin
Roosevelt tells you the time span. But Arizona is now
(07:06):
about aground state. You know, you've got a Democratic U. S. Senator,
a sitting Republican U. S. Senator as well as who's
facing a tough challenge from a Democrat, and you're starting
to see the purpleness of Arizona come out. And it's
viewed by everyone at the stage of the battleground state,
and you're seeing those battleground lines being drawn again. Some
(07:28):
folks share I talk to you said it's a matter
of one of personal liberty. If they are sick or
if their doctor recommends a treatment including a mask, bill oblige.
But the City Council of Phoenix, that's not made up
of doctors, and certainly they're not their personal physician, so no,
they don't feel like they have the authority. And others
have said this is also a concern about their health,
(07:48):
that they have concerns about whether wearing a mask will
impact their health negatively. There's not science that I've read
in any volume that suggests that there are health issues
related to masks. Certainly a lot of people have that
firm belief, and they also again come down to a
personal liberty issue, and they simply object to being told
(08:09):
how to comport themselves outdoors or in public in this environment.
At least a calledwell reporter at the Wall Street Journal,
thank you very much for joining us. All right, thank you.
I'm Oscar Ramirez, and this is reopening America. Don't forget that.
For today's big news stories, you can check me out
in the Daily Dive podcast every Monday to Friday, so
(08:30):
follow us in I Heart Radio or wherever you get
your podcast
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