March 12, 2020 • 7 mins
The World Health Organization has now declared the COVID-19 crisis a pandemic with Iran and Italy as the new front lines in the battle against the virus. Italy has over 12,000 cases and over 800 deaths leading the government to put the entire country on lockdown, limiting the movement of 60 million people. Chico Harlan, Rome Bureau Chief at the Washington Post, joins us for what Italy is like post lockdown.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Thursday, March twelve. I'm Oscar Ramires from the Daily
Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is your daily
coronavirus update. The World Health Organization has now declared the
COVID nineteen crisis a pandemic, with Iran and Italy as
the new front lines in the battle against the virus.
(00:21):
Italy has over twelve thousand cases and over eight deaths,
leading the government to put the entire country on lockdown
and they're limiting the movement of sixty million people. Chico Harlan, Rome,
bureau chief at the Washington Post, joins us for what
Italy is like post lockdown. Thanks for joining us, Chico,
Absolutely no problem. So the latest update the w h O,
(00:45):
the World Health Organization, has declared the global coronavirus crisis.
They've called it now a pandemic, which really just means
that this virus is causing sustained outbreaks in multiple regions
in the world. One of the things that they have
said is that around and Italy are the new front
lines in the battle against the virus that started in China,
(01:07):
and specifically in Italy, there's a lockdown of the entire country.
At first, it was just going to be the northern region.
Then they decided to lock down the entire country. And
this is something pretty historic. It's never been done. There's
sixty million people there and these just proves the steps
that they're going through to try to contain the outbreak
of the COVID nineteen coronavirus. Chico. You're based there in
(01:30):
Italy in Rome, tell us what it's like. Well, totally surreal.
When you're on the streets now in Rome, you don't
really see people some but they now abide by these
completely once alien customs, keeping their distance from one another,
eyeing others suspiciously. Some are wearing masks, some aren't. Some
(01:51):
wrap scarves around their mouths. But I was only briefly
out today shopping for groceries, and the line forms with
everyone keeping a meter or two discs from one another.
And you know, the minute you get home, you wash
your hands for somewhere between twenty to forty seconds, and
you try not to touch your face. These are the
things that every Italian is doing now. And of course
(02:11):
normal life has stopped. School, theater, museums, nothing is open.
There's very little reason to go outside other than just
to see the Beauty of Rome, which still is there.
You can't ever shut that down. But these are customs
that Italians have eternalized, I'd say very quickly, in just
a matter of days, as the number of cases has
gone up and up and up, and I kind of
(02:31):
as society in a very rapid amount of time went
through all the stages of grief and acceptance that allowed
these measures to be taken without much blowback at all.
Now people are saying, Okay, it's necessary, and I think
other countries will get there too, maybe not to a lockdown,
but to some dramatic ways in which life changes. The
numbers are constantly changing, but we have over twelve thousand
(02:53):
confirmed cases there in Italy, more than deaths. The numbers
just keep rising all the time. What is the official
lockdown consist of. I know they're placing restrictions on travel
in and out of the country at all, but what
else are the restrictions the official restrictions that are happening there.
You're not supposed to move outside of the country or
from one area to the other within the country unless
(03:16):
you have special permission, so for reasons of work that
are urgent, necessary for reasons of health, other emergencies and
you need to have this police form assigned declaration with
you and you're liable to be checked. And I do
think enforcement, though it's impossible to patrol every single border,
it's been enough to reduce dramatically the number of people
that are even leaving their neighborhood. And I think that's
(03:38):
the goal. It's kind of atomize society and turn sixty
million people into a nation of home dwellers. And it
takes society to get pretty spooked before people will do that.
I mean, really, though it's a government order, it's also
a matter of self compliance, and I think pretty much
down to the person. That's what's happening now. The last
(04:00):
two or three days, Italy has felt shut down. Indeed,
in the United States, Washington States governor just announced the
Bannon gatherings of more than two fifty people. Concerts and
music festivals, things are being shut down. So in the
United States we're kind of getting there. We're getting to
that point where they're starting to shut down things. And
obviously they're telling people not to be in large gatherings.
But for a city like Rome and the country overall
(04:24):
in Italy, there's tons of tourism there. People go there
to be out and about and experience the culture, and
that's rapidly changing. As you've been saying, what happens to
the business owners, because if everything is shut down, there's
very limited people in a cafe or so, and even
then there's still sitting a meter apart or something. What
of the business owners there, They're totally screwed. Surely there'll
(04:46):
be some government attempts at relief and bail out, but
Italy will be in a deep recession. And Italy was
in a bad economic shape even before this hit. But
it could be one of the ugliest chapters of post
war TI in history, just from an economic standpoint. And
it's of course there are variable is about how long
this carries on for. But this is a country that
(05:07):
depends on tourism. For it's GDP tourism is zero. Now
nobody is here, and then of course shops are closed
at night. There's not a restaurant. Oh but in Italy tonight.
That was one of the interesting things I noted from
your piece is that they said that restaurants and bars
should be closing by six pm. And for anybody that's
(05:28):
been to Italy or knows about it. They eat pretty late.
They don't really start getting down until nine o'clock or something.
No one's going to dinner. Now, that's basically what it means.
You can go out from And there's some talking and
the restrictions might further tighten such that the only things
that are open or pharmacies and grocery stores. That remains
to be seen, but some politicians from the north are
saying that even the existing restrictions are too laxing. This
(05:51):
is pretty far gone obviously there in Italy. But do
we know where the first case started, how it really originated.
There was it somebody traveling back from China. They still
don't have a definitive answer, but it looks more complicated
than that. There's some speculation that it could have come
from Germany. There was a miniature outbreak in January. Then
maybe there was some contact there. But by and large,
(06:13):
the hunt for patients zero has been unfulfilling, and almost
at this point feels besides the point because by the
time Italy woke up to this, it had clearly been
brewing for about three weeks maybe well, let's just say
some weeks, and then they started looking for cases and
they found cases everywhere, so that didn't happen overnight, and
that's exactly why the World Health Organization has declared this
(06:35):
a pandemic now, so that countries and everybody can put
a lot of effort into this, into getting their health
systems up to date and ready in case something happens,
in case outbreaks happened there locally. For now, thank you, Chico.
I appreciate you giving us the low down there and
what's going on. As I said, some of these restrictions
and things are probably gonna start popping up in a
lot of different places as people are trying to limit
(06:57):
the spread of this, but for now, Italy completely on lockdown, Chico.
Thank you very much. Rome, Bureau chief at the Washington Post,
thank you. This has been your daily coronavirus update. I'm
Oscar Ramirez, and don't forget that after today's big news stories,
you can check me out on the Daily Dive podcast
every Monday through Friday, So follow us on I Heart
(07:18):
Radio or wherever you get your podcast.
It's Thursday, March twelve. I'm Oscar Ramires from the Daily
Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is your daily
coronavirus update. The World Health Organization has now declared the
COVID nineteen crisis a pandemic, with Iran and Italy as
the new front lines in the battle against the virus.
(00:21):
Italy has over twelve thousand cases and over eight deaths,
leading the government to put the entire country on lockdown
and they're limiting the movement of sixty million people. Chico Harlan, Rome,
bureau chief at the Washington Post, joins us for what
Italy is like post lockdown. Thanks for joining us, Chico,
Absolutely no problem. So the latest update the w h O,
(00:45):
the World Health Organization, has declared the global coronavirus crisis.
They've called it now a pandemic, which really just means
that this virus is causing sustained outbreaks in multiple regions
in the world. One of the things that they have
said is that around and Italy are the new front
lines in the battle against the virus that started in China,
(01:07):
and specifically in Italy, there's a lockdown of the entire country.
At first, it was just going to be the northern region.
Then they decided to lock down the entire country. And
this is something pretty historic. It's never been done. There's
sixty million people there and these just proves the steps
that they're going through to try to contain the outbreak
of the COVID nineteen coronavirus. Chico. You're based there in
(01:30):
Italy in Rome, tell us what it's like. Well, totally surreal.
When you're on the streets now in Rome, you don't
really see people some but they now abide by these
completely once alien customs, keeping their distance from one another,
eyeing others suspiciously. Some are wearing masks, some aren't. Some
(01:51):
wrap scarves around their mouths. But I was only briefly
out today shopping for groceries, and the line forms with
everyone keeping a meter or two discs from one another.
And you know, the minute you get home, you wash
your hands for somewhere between twenty to forty seconds, and
you try not to touch your face. These are the
things that every Italian is doing now. And of course
(02:11):
normal life has stopped. School, theater, museums, nothing is open.
There's very little reason to go outside other than just
to see the Beauty of Rome, which still is there.
You can't ever shut that down. But these are customs
that Italians have eternalized, I'd say very quickly, in just
a matter of days, as the number of cases has
gone up and up and up, and I kind of
(02:31):
as society in a very rapid amount of time went
through all the stages of grief and acceptance that allowed
these measures to be taken without much blowback at all.
Now people are saying, Okay, it's necessary, and I think
other countries will get there too, maybe not to a lockdown,
but to some dramatic ways in which life changes. The
numbers are constantly changing, but we have over twelve thousand
(02:53):
confirmed cases there in Italy, more than deaths. The numbers
just keep rising all the time. What is the official
lockdown consist of. I know they're placing restrictions on travel
in and out of the country at all, but what
else are the restrictions the official restrictions that are happening there.
You're not supposed to move outside of the country or
from one area to the other within the country unless
(03:16):
you have special permission, so for reasons of work that
are urgent, necessary for reasons of health, other emergencies and
you need to have this police form assigned declaration with
you and you're liable to be checked. And I do
think enforcement, though it's impossible to patrol every single border,
it's been enough to reduce dramatically the number of people
that are even leaving their neighborhood. And I think that's
(03:38):
the goal. It's kind of atomize society and turn sixty
million people into a nation of home dwellers. And it
takes society to get pretty spooked before people will do that.
I mean, really, though it's a government order, it's also
a matter of self compliance, and I think pretty much
down to the person. That's what's happening now. The last
(04:00):
two or three days, Italy has felt shut down. Indeed,
in the United States, Washington States governor just announced the
Bannon gatherings of more than two fifty people. Concerts and
music festivals, things are being shut down. So in the
United States we're kind of getting there. We're getting to
that point where they're starting to shut down things. And
obviously they're telling people not to be in large gatherings.
But for a city like Rome and the country overall
(04:24):
in Italy, there's tons of tourism there. People go there
to be out and about and experience the culture, and
that's rapidly changing. As you've been saying, what happens to
the business owners, because if everything is shut down, there's
very limited people in a cafe or so, and even
then there's still sitting a meter apart or something. What
of the business owners there, They're totally screwed. Surely there'll
(04:46):
be some government attempts at relief and bail out, but
Italy will be in a deep recession. And Italy was
in a bad economic shape even before this hit. But
it could be one of the ugliest chapters of post
war TI in history, just from an economic standpoint. And
it's of course there are variable is about how long
this carries on for. But this is a country that
(05:07):
depends on tourism. For it's GDP tourism is zero. Now
nobody is here, and then of course shops are closed
at night. There's not a restaurant. Oh but in Italy tonight.
That was one of the interesting things I noted from
your piece is that they said that restaurants and bars
should be closing by six pm. And for anybody that's
(05:28):
been to Italy or knows about it. They eat pretty late.
They don't really start getting down until nine o'clock or something.
No one's going to dinner. Now, that's basically what it means.
You can go out from And there's some talking and
the restrictions might further tighten such that the only things
that are open or pharmacies and grocery stores. That remains
to be seen, but some politicians from the north are
saying that even the existing restrictions are too laxing. This
(05:51):
is pretty far gone obviously there in Italy. But do
we know where the first case started, how it really originated.
There was it somebody traveling back from China. They still
don't have a definitive answer, but it looks more complicated
than that. There's some speculation that it could have come
from Germany. There was a miniature outbreak in January. Then
maybe there was some contact there. But by and large,
(06:13):
the hunt for patients zero has been unfulfilling, and almost
at this point feels besides the point because by the
time Italy woke up to this, it had clearly been
brewing for about three weeks maybe well, let's just say
some weeks, and then they started looking for cases and
they found cases everywhere, so that didn't happen overnight, and
that's exactly why the World Health Organization has declared this
(06:35):
a pandemic now, so that countries and everybody can put
a lot of effort into this, into getting their health
systems up to date and ready in case something happens,
in case outbreaks happened there locally. For now, thank you, Chico.
I appreciate you giving us the low down there and
what's going on. As I said, some of these restrictions
and things are probably gonna start popping up in a
lot of different places as people are trying to limit
(06:57):
the spread of this, but for now, Italy completely on lockdown, Chico.
Thank you very much. Rome, Bureau chief at the Washington Post,
thank you. This has been your daily coronavirus update. I'm
Oscar Ramirez, and don't forget that after today's big news stories,
you can check me out on the Daily Dive podcast
every Monday through Friday, So follow us on I Heart
(07:18):
Radio or wherever you get your podcast.
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