February 5, 2021 • 20 mins
When it comes to women in the workforce during the pandemic, the numbers don’t tell the full story. Since the pandemic began, women have lost $5.4 million jobs, and nearly 2.1 million women have left the workforce entirely. There are many reasons why women have been squeezed out, but one thing is sure, the effects will be long lasting. Angela Garbes, contributor to The Cut and author of “Like a Mother,” joins us for more.
Next, this is what I wanted to hear. A 24-year-old graduate student from MIT got on the GameStop train and turned $500 into over $200,000. He did it like many others, getting advice on the Wallstreetbets subreddit and felt like he was part of something bigger. In the end, family and friends convinced him to sell before the stock dropped. Gregory Zuckerman, special writer at the WSJ, joins us for one person’s wild GameStop ride.
Finally, how has President Biden been adjusting to life in the White House? Joe Biden is an extrovert who like walking about the building and checking in with staffers. Biden also has a much more structured day than his predecessor when it comes to phone calls and briefings. Anita Kumar, White House correspondent and associate editor at Politico, joins us for Biden’s more traditional style.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Friday, February five. I'm Oscar Ramirez in Los Angeles,
and this is the daily dive. When it comes to
women in the workforce during the pandemic, the numbers don't
tell the full story. Since the pandemic, again, women have
lost five point four million jobs and nearly three point
one million women have left the workforce entirely. There are
(00:23):
many reasons why women have been squeezed out, but one
thing is sure. The effects will be long lasting. Angela Garbez,
contributor to The Cut and author of Like a Mother,
joins us for more. Next, this is what I wanted
to hear. A twenty four year old graduate student from
m I T got on the game, stopped trained, and
turned five hundred dollars into over two hundred thousand dollars.
(00:45):
He did it like many others getting advice on the
Wall Street Bets subreddit, and felt like he was part
of something bigger. In the end, family and friends convinced
him to sell before the stock dropped. Gregory Zuckerman, special
writer at The Wall Street Journal, joins us for one
person since Wild Game Stop Ride. Finally, how has President
Biden been adjusting to life at the White House, Joe
(01:06):
Biden is an extrovert who likes walking about the building
and checking in with staffers. Biden also has a much
more structured day than his predecessor when it comes to
phone calls in briefings. Anita Kumar, White House correspondent and
associate editor at Politico, joins us for Biden's more traditional style.
It's news without the noise. Let's dive in. You know,
(01:29):
experts call it a constrained choice, but in many ways,
it's not a choice at all when you have to
choose between caring for your children, ensuring the survival of them,
for making money. You know, like this is a problem
that we've said. Joining us now is Angela Garbez, contributor
to The Cut and author of Like a Mother. Thanks
for joining us, Angela, Thanks for having me after we've
(01:50):
seen how the pandemic has been affecting our everyday lives. Obviously,
when it comes to the virus itself, we've seen it
disproportionately affect communities of color and on the economic front. Also,
we've also seen it really impact women when it comes
to the workforce. You know, we've long seen throughout this
whole process how mothers have had to cut back on
(02:13):
hours or just quit their jobs entirely because they had
to stay home with their kids when they're doing remote learning.
We've seen other studies to kind of reflect some of
how important that could be, because if women jump out
of the workforce, sometimes it's harder for them to get back.
In Angela, you wrote a story for The Cut just
talking about how tough this is. There's some statistics in there,
(02:34):
and then some of your own personal story as well,
so help us walk through some of that. I mean,
I really think the pandemic is exposing. It's worsening things
that we already had, you know, structural feelings. You know,
women are already making you know, likes to a dollar right,
and we've never valued domestic work, which is disproportionately falls
on women's shoulders, and we don't pay people for that,
(02:55):
even though the care work is the essential work that
makes every other kind of work possible. So in the pandemic,
what we're seeing though is that you know, it's not
much of a choice if your child care center is closed.
You know, whether you work in an I CU or
you're working at grocery stores, you can't leave your child alone.
That's an impossible thing, and and the thing about it is,
but you also can't afford to not work. So these
(03:17):
are really impossible choices that people are forced to make.
I really take issue with the way that sometimes things
are framed where women are stepping back from the workforce,
you know, or leaving the workforce. What's really happening is
that women and mothers are being forced out. You could
say it's like being thrown off of the building, where
you're being squeezed out of the workforce. You know. Experts
(03:39):
call it a constrained choice, but in many ways, it's
not a choice at all when you have to choose
between caring for your children, ensuring the survival of them
for making money. You know, like, this is a problem
that we've set up. Like to me, it's not a
fine of a healthy society when people are forced to
make those choices. What have we seen through this pandemic
The millions of jobs lost since it's all started. I
(03:59):
think according to the National Women's Law Center, five point
four million jobs have been lost by women since the
pandemic began, and nearly two point one million women have
left the labor force entirely, so at that point they're
not really counted in unemployment statistics, and you know, just
gonna have other effects to just kind of the I know,
women being in the workforce and and those numbers that. Yeah,
(04:22):
so women and women of color, I should say, specifically
are overrepresented in service and hospitality. So those sectors have
been decimated by the pandemic. And let's also talk about
how many of those jobs are not going to come back.
We're talking about businesses and small business of clothing, you know,
and two point one million women leaving your workforce. They
(04:42):
are no longer actively looking for work, they are not
shot an unemployment statistics like this is an immediate problem,
but this is also a long term problem. These jobs,
like I said, are not going to come back. And
even before the pandemic, women overwhelmingly leave the workforce to
do caretaking. And that's spot for children all with for
aging parents for relatives. Right, Studies have shown consistently they
(05:04):
have a harder time getting back in their or look
forth and then they come back to lower wages. So
that's going to happen here again too. So the damage
is really long term. It's going to be we're back
at employment levels for women right now. The last time
the employment levels for women for this low was n
and so I think, you know we're gonna be seeing
this is going to affect you know, there's little once
(05:26):
it's in a lifetime devastation, and I think that we
don't talk about that enough. And you know, numbers are
one thing. You know, like when you are talking about
numbers like five point four, two point one, there's almost
the scale of that is like kind of incomprehensible, And
I think we sort of become numb to it in
a way, in the same way that we become numb
to four hundred thousand people have died of COVID, right,
(05:47):
or like three thousand people die every day. I think
what gets lost when we talked about statistics is like
when we're talking about two point one million people leaving,
that's like millions of individual people choosing between paying their
rent right caring for the kids. Were pretty between rent
and groceries, right, people Like there's just this tremendous amount
of Greek lost sense of identity and self esteem when
(06:10):
you can't work right or just feeling like you're failing
apparent because you don't have the patience and you're so stressed, right,
And so one of the things that I wanted to
do when you talked about like in the article that
I wrote, I brought in some of my own experience,
because we need to hold space for those stories. It's
easy to report statistics, it's easier to lose sight of
(06:31):
you know, this is devastating people personally, individually, emotionally, psychologically,
and we just you know, I don't feel like we're
talking about that enough, Like this is really hard and
devastating our economy, and it's devastating people's lives and for
a lot of people, like a lot of things that
have been going on with the pandemic, a lot of
people have gotten sick, we know that, but a lot
(06:52):
of people have not gotten sick. And doesn't sink in
for them, you know, if you don't know somebody personally
that might have gotten sick, and this is kind of
the same thing, you know, it doesn't sink in for
you if your family hasn't been affected this way, if
your mom had to stop working to take care of
the kids, or your wife had to stop working to
take care of the kids, things like that, and it's
not just you know that sense of it. You know,
there's all sorts of other things for reasons why women,
(07:14):
as you mentioned, got maybe got forced out of the workforce.
Final question, how are you doing in your endeavor? I
know you were trying to release a book, things like that,
things that you had to put on hold because of
the pandemic. It's been really hard. I was supposed to
turn in a book manuscript this summer. Um I pushed
it back a full year. I'll put a number on it,
because I don't think we do that enough. You know,
I've lost probably forty in income this year. I'm fortunate
(07:39):
because we have my husband's income that we can live
off of, which is money is tight. But I mean
I'm doing okay. And I think this is another thing
that's really hard is that this is hard on everyone, right.
And I think sometimes because like I have a certain
amount of privilege and comfort, you kind of ourselves conscious
because you know there is somebody out there who has
it worse. But I think we need to acknowledge like there, yeah,
(08:00):
there are people. This is like leaving them destitute. People
is you know, homeless ill dead, like that is real
and like let us never deny that level. But it
is so hard on everybody, and like, we have a
right to that plief and we have a right to
talk about how hard it is. Thank you for asking
how I am. I'm like, I'm getting by, you know,
(08:20):
like everyone right, and I'm just hoping you know that
these conversations and bringing up these issues, you know, we
can address some of those problems a little bit more.
Angela Garbez contributed to The Cut and author of Like
a Mother. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank
you so much for having me. He bought five dollars,
(08:44):
only put five into these options, but before he knew it,
he was caught up. He couldn't do anything else, could
think about anything else. He was playing tennis with his friends,
and literally after every point in the match, he was
ripping out his phone and checking into the car and
price how much he was making at losing. Joining us
now was Gregory Zuckerman, special writer at the Wall Street Journal.
(09:05):
Thanks for joining us, Greggory. Oh great to be here.
This is the story I was waiting for in all
of the game Stop Wall Street craziness. I wanted to
hear a story of somebody who got in, made some money,
some good money too, and got out. Didn't want to
keep kind of pushing his luck. Let's say, so we
have a story of a twenty four year old graduate
(09:26):
student from m I T he's in mechanical engineering. His
name is a new Bob Gua, and he turned five
hundred dollars into a little over two hundred thousand dollars
in about three weeks. Less than three weeks and all
this game stopped craziness. So Gregory tell us a little
bit more about his story. He's an easy guy to
root for. He's a grad stud in twenty four years
(09:47):
old m I. He's got a stipend of about thirty
six thousand dollars a year, so he's not like he's
rolling in money. And basically he had a little bit
of cash about four thousand dollars or so that decide
to play with and he did that starting about a
year ago back in Martin the pandemic really began and
(10:07):
he lost a good chunk of hits trading the market,
so he was downs about two thousand dollars and then
he stumbled upon Wall Street Bets, this suddenly popular subreddit
on the Reddit site, and they were talking about game stops.
So we got excited at any thought these options, which
basically are bullish trades bet on game stop and yeah,
(10:30):
he did really well. Tell us a little bit about
that sense of being a part of something bigger, because
a lot of people were feeling that same way. You're
with a group, you're with a community, and I think
that's where a lot of people are attracted to when
it comes to this subreddit, Wall Street beets it's not
just the money yet I love making the money. They
feel part of something large er. You know, we all
(10:52):
want to be part of communities, and not everyone goes
to the church in and Goga anymore. And we looked
for things, and some people look for politics, and now
others are drawn to trading. And as you suggest, he
sort of got into it early on. He was a
skeptical on being He was more of an investment decision,
and he made his best decision. He bought five hundred dollars.
He only put five hundred dollars into these options. But
(11:14):
before he knew it, he was caught up. He couldn't
do anything else, couldn't think about anything else. He was
playing tennants with his friends and literally after every point
in the match, he was whipping out his phone and
checking into the car and price, how much he was making,
how much he was losing. He was all encompassing, and
you know he was thinking about selling, but he'd go
on this fight this uh Wall Street Best and they
(11:35):
were saying, no, no no, it's going to a thousand's going
to five thousands. Don't tell, don't tell, And he got
caught up in it. And I don't mean it disparaging,
say it was calt like, but you could see how
people get caught up and it becomes a frenzy. And
that's what happened to him. And he almost see it.
Jokingly calls it a mini intervention, but he sort of
had to have his friends step in and say, dude,
tell you're up two hundred dollars. You don't know what's
(11:56):
gonna happen here. You need the money, sells now. And
he said that was the mantra for a lot of
people on Wall Street bets. You know, hold, don't sell.
We're gonna keep writing this, We're gonna keep writing that.
It didn't really play out that way. He sold. When
he sold it was right before the all time high,
thankfully obviously before it dropped. It was in like three
D four hundred range. I don't remember exactly what the
(12:17):
all time high was. I checked right before we did
the story, and the numbers changed constantly, so it could
be different by the time you know you hear this,
but it was about ninety three dollars. He got out
at the right time. He told his parents right after
he did it. He didn't want to worry them, he
didn't want to stress him out about what he was doing,
so he told them right after he got out, oh,
by the way, are you hearing him out the game
(12:38):
stop crazines? And they were like, no, they're anything about
games stops Shriff, And then he's like, yeah, I just
made training this thing. And his dad right away. I
love the response he's like, were you insider training? And
to his own sons, but the mothers like he wasn't
even like taken by it, untild You heard a few
days later some segment on MTR. But as you suggest,
(13:00):
he said he got bucky. His mom was all impressed,
his friends repressed. He's like, no, I got lucky here
because because he got out at the right time, and
if it wasn't for his friends started leaning on him
to get out, he probably gonna hold on and he'd
be down a lot, so a lot of its luck
and you feel bad for the people that got in
at the end. But he got out at the right time.
What's next for him? You know, he's got to pay
(13:20):
some taxes on in Boston is not a cheap city
to live in. What does he plan on doing with
all of that? When you hear he made two hundred
thousand in a few weeks, you feel the guy's bearing
in the shape. You know, you gotta pay short term
taxes on that, and that takes a huge chalk out.
The guy's living in an expensive city, so I I think,
and he's in a graduate program, it's gonna last a
number of years, six or seven years. I think. His
(13:41):
whole thing, frankly is his parents have some money, but
he wants to depend on himself. He don't want to
lean on them. And now he'll be able to pay
his for his education and such and his expenses. So
I give him a lot of credit. He seems like
a sweet enough kids. He liked When those kind of
people make money, you just feel for those types of
people who are getting in too late and maybe got
in when he was getting out, and for everyone of
(14:03):
these individuals that you root for there's somebody similar or
maybe got in a little too late, so you feel
bad for them. Gregory Zuckerman, Special writer at The Wall
Street Journal, thank you very much for joining us. Oh
great to be here. You are the heart and soul
(14:25):
of who we are as a country, and the rest
of the world is looking to you help them understand us,
and so we can help them as well. Joining us
now as Anita Kumar, White House correspondent and associate editor
at Politico, Thanks for joining us, Anita, sure, thanks for
having me. I always like these kind of stories, a
little peek into the White House, the governing styles, how
(14:45):
things work behind the scenes. President Joe Biden has been
in there a couple of weeks now, and we're seeing
how he's operating in there. Uh, we're hearing that he
likes to stroll around the White House in the East Wing.
He pops into other people's offices. He's very much an extrovert,
the people person, wants to talk to people face to face.
The pandemic kind of puts a little crunch on some
(15:05):
of that sometimes, but tell us how it's going so far,
and you know, kind of in contrast to the way
President Trump operated in there. Yeah, well, you're exactly right
about that. I mean, he has been known his whole life,
I think, for being an extrovert, very outgoing and wants
to see people, talk to people in person, and as
you mentioned, that's really hard during coronavirus. So he's not
getting out of the White House very often. He's not
(15:28):
traveling the country like we might expect during non COVID times.
So what we are seeing is him strolling around the
White House and popping into different offices just to say
hello and check in with staff or you know, for
a particular occasion or a particular meeting. We are seeing
him doing a good number of some of the meetings
he would be doing anyway with outside experts, but he's
(15:50):
trying to do those by video instead of, you know,
by phone, so he can see those people even if
he can't be in the same room with them. So
we're seeing a lot of that. You know, you asked
about Donald Trump. I think you know, Donald Trump also
liked to talk to people and see people and be seen,
and so there's a little bit of a similarity. But
I think beyond that, their style is completely different about
(16:13):
how they get information and talk to people. And try
to make those decisions. Yeah, I mean, obviously, Joe Biden
a politician for many, many years, He's definitely more of
that traditional style. President Trump a businessman, so he kind
of has that fast moving pace. But even the way
their time is structured and access to them is different.
Joe Biden has a very strict schedule of phone calls
(16:35):
that that are scheduled for him, you know, people that
control access to the Oval office, and it was a
little different for President Trump. There was a lot more
people that he welcomed in and out of the office.
Joe Biden is taking a much more traditional way to govern,
but this is sort of how he's done things. So
you know, he will have a set list of calls
(16:56):
to make that his staff will set up for him.
He will have scheduled meetings. We know that he's doing
national intelligence briefing every day. He's also getting a coronavirus
update every single day. Those are you know, from staffers.
But how he makes the decision is he'll get um,
you know, sort of a briefing paper. He likes to
read something, but he doesn't want it to be hugely long.
(17:19):
President Obama always liked to read a lot he want.
He wanted it to be all there, and he wanted
to read. And sometimes after he read, he didn't want
to talk about it because he had already read it,
he knew what it said. President Biden, he likes to
read it. He wants something concise, and then he wants
to talk about it. He wants to talk about it
with his aids, and then he wants to talk to
these outside experts, which could be someone that deals with
the policy, but it could also be a local official
(17:40):
or a state official. So he's having those kinds of
calls and meeting with his aids and making decisions that way.
You know, President Trump really didn't like to have those
briefing papers. He didn't want to read something. He would
sort of famously have his aids debate an issue right
in front of him. He wanted them to kind of
go at it a little it. So the style is
(18:01):
very different, but something that Joe Biden has brought from,
you know, his decades in public life before. And as
I mentioned, those gatekeepers that kind of really control him
and keep him on track and everything. It's really three people.
His chief of staff, Ron Clane, an ee to a Massini.
She's the director of Oval Office Operations. And Ashley Williams
was kind of like an executive assistant but got a
(18:21):
you know, a name change for her position just to
kind of elevate her there. But they're the they're the
three gatekeepers for President Biden. President Trumpet, you know, had
four chiefs of staff over four years, and one of
the big problems with you know, his clashes with them
is that he didn't like them controlling his schedule. So
that was one of the problems. You know, President Biden
(18:42):
really relies on these people to control the schedule for him.
So his chief of Staffron Clan is probably known to
a lot of people. He's been on TV a lot,
and he's pretty high profile. The other two women probably
people have never heard of them. But these are the
two women are basically running Joe Biden's life. Someone told
me that Ann Thomas City, who you mentioned, director of
Oval Office Operations, really does run Joe Biden's life. She
(19:05):
really is the person that makes everything work for him,
his schedule and all of that. So you're not going
to get in to see the president if you don't
go through one of these people. You know, you're not
going to get a call unless you schedule it with
one of those people. Anita Kumar, White House correspondent and
associate editor at Politico, Thank you very much for joining us. Sure,
(19:26):
thanks for having me. That's it for today. Join us
on social media at Daily Dive, pot and book, Twitter
and Instagram. Comment, give us a rating and tell us
or is that your induced Allow us and I heard
radio or subscribe wherever you get your podcast. This episode
(19:49):
of The Daily Divers produced by Baby Right and engineered
by Tony Sarantina. Hi'm Oscar rameras this was your daily
dit he
It's Friday, February five. I'm Oscar Ramirez in Los Angeles,
and this is the daily dive. When it comes to
women in the workforce during the pandemic, the numbers don't
tell the full story. Since the pandemic, again, women have
lost five point four million jobs and nearly three point
one million women have left the workforce entirely. There are
(00:23):
many reasons why women have been squeezed out, but one
thing is sure. The effects will be long lasting. Angela Garbez,
contributor to The Cut and author of Like a Mother,
joins us for more. Next, this is what I wanted
to hear. A twenty four year old graduate student from
m I T got on the game, stopped trained, and
turned five hundred dollars into over two hundred thousand dollars.
(00:45):
He did it like many others getting advice on the
Wall Street Bets subreddit, and felt like he was part
of something bigger. In the end, family and friends convinced
him to sell before the stock dropped. Gregory Zuckerman, special
writer at The Wall Street Journal, joins us for one
person since Wild Game Stop Ride. Finally, how has President
Biden been adjusting to life at the White House, Joe
(01:06):
Biden is an extrovert who likes walking about the building
and checking in with staffers. Biden also has a much
more structured day than his predecessor when it comes to
phone calls in briefings. Anita Kumar, White House correspondent and
associate editor at Politico, joins us for Biden's more traditional style.
It's news without the noise. Let's dive in. You know,
(01:29):
experts call it a constrained choice, but in many ways,
it's not a choice at all when you have to
choose between caring for your children, ensuring the survival of them,
for making money. You know, like this is a problem
that we've said. Joining us now is Angela Garbez, contributor
to The Cut and author of Like a Mother. Thanks
for joining us, Angela, Thanks for having me after we've
(01:50):
seen how the pandemic has been affecting our everyday lives. Obviously,
when it comes to the virus itself, we've seen it
disproportionately affect communities of color and on the economic front. Also,
we've also seen it really impact women when it comes
to the workforce. You know, we've long seen throughout this
whole process how mothers have had to cut back on
(02:13):
hours or just quit their jobs entirely because they had
to stay home with their kids when they're doing remote learning.
We've seen other studies to kind of reflect some of
how important that could be, because if women jump out
of the workforce, sometimes it's harder for them to get back.
In Angela, you wrote a story for The Cut just
talking about how tough this is. There's some statistics in there,
(02:34):
and then some of your own personal story as well,
so help us walk through some of that. I mean,
I really think the pandemic is exposing. It's worsening things
that we already had, you know, structural feelings. You know,
women are already making you know, likes to a dollar right,
and we've never valued domestic work, which is disproportionately falls
on women's shoulders, and we don't pay people for that,
(02:55):
even though the care work is the essential work that
makes every other kind of work possible. So in the pandemic,
what we're seeing though is that you know, it's not
much of a choice if your child care center is closed.
You know, whether you work in an I CU or
you're working at grocery stores, you can't leave your child alone.
That's an impossible thing, and and the thing about it is,
but you also can't afford to not work. So these
(03:17):
are really impossible choices that people are forced to make.
I really take issue with the way that sometimes things
are framed where women are stepping back from the workforce,
you know, or leaving the workforce. What's really happening is
that women and mothers are being forced out. You could
say it's like being thrown off of the building, where
you're being squeezed out of the workforce. You know. Experts
(03:39):
call it a constrained choice, but in many ways, it's
not a choice at all when you have to choose
between caring for your children, ensuring the survival of them
for making money. You know, like, this is a problem
that we've set up. Like to me, it's not a
fine of a healthy society when people are forced to
make those choices. What have we seen through this pandemic
The millions of jobs lost since it's all started. I
(03:59):
think according to the National Women's Law Center, five point
four million jobs have been lost by women since the
pandemic began, and nearly two point one million women have
left the labor force entirely, so at that point they're
not really counted in unemployment statistics, and you know, just
gonna have other effects to just kind of the I know,
women being in the workforce and and those numbers that. Yeah,
(04:22):
so women and women of color, I should say, specifically
are overrepresented in service and hospitality. So those sectors have
been decimated by the pandemic. And let's also talk about
how many of those jobs are not going to come back.
We're talking about businesses and small business of clothing, you know,
and two point one million women leaving your workforce. They
(04:42):
are no longer actively looking for work, they are not
shot an unemployment statistics like this is an immediate problem,
but this is also a long term problem. These jobs,
like I said, are not going to come back. And
even before the pandemic, women overwhelmingly leave the workforce to
do caretaking. And that's spot for children all with for
aging parents for relatives. Right, Studies have shown consistently they
(05:04):
have a harder time getting back in their or look
forth and then they come back to lower wages. So
that's going to happen here again too. So the damage
is really long term. It's going to be we're back
at employment levels for women right now. The last time
the employment levels for women for this low was n
and so I think, you know we're gonna be seeing
this is going to affect you know, there's little once
(05:26):
it's in a lifetime devastation, and I think that we
don't talk about that enough. And you know, numbers are
one thing. You know, like when you are talking about
numbers like five point four, two point one, there's almost
the scale of that is like kind of incomprehensible, And
I think we sort of become numb to it in
a way, in the same way that we become numb
to four hundred thousand people have died of COVID, right,
(05:47):
or like three thousand people die every day. I think
what gets lost when we talked about statistics is like
when we're talking about two point one million people leaving,
that's like millions of individual people choosing between paying their
rent right caring for the kids. Were pretty between rent
and groceries, right, people Like there's just this tremendous amount
of Greek lost sense of identity and self esteem when
(06:10):
you can't work right or just feeling like you're failing
apparent because you don't have the patience and you're so stressed, right,
And so one of the things that I wanted to
do when you talked about like in the article that
I wrote, I brought in some of my own experience,
because we need to hold space for those stories. It's
easy to report statistics, it's easier to lose sight of
(06:31):
you know, this is devastating people personally, individually, emotionally, psychologically,
and we just you know, I don't feel like we're
talking about that enough, Like this is really hard and
devastating our economy, and it's devastating people's lives and for
a lot of people, like a lot of things that
have been going on with the pandemic, a lot of
people have gotten sick, we know that, but a lot
(06:52):
of people have not gotten sick. And doesn't sink in
for them, you know, if you don't know somebody personally
that might have gotten sick, and this is kind of
the same thing, you know, it doesn't sink in for
you if your family hasn't been affected this way, if
your mom had to stop working to take care of
the kids, or your wife had to stop working to
take care of the kids, things like that, and it's
not just you know that sense of it. You know,
there's all sorts of other things for reasons why women,
(07:14):
as you mentioned, got maybe got forced out of the workforce.
Final question, how are you doing in your endeavor? I
know you were trying to release a book, things like that,
things that you had to put on hold because of
the pandemic. It's been really hard. I was supposed to
turn in a book manuscript this summer. Um I pushed
it back a full year. I'll put a number on it,
because I don't think we do that enough. You know,
I've lost probably forty in income this year. I'm fortunate
(07:39):
because we have my husband's income that we can live
off of, which is money is tight. But I mean
I'm doing okay. And I think this is another thing
that's really hard is that this is hard on everyone, right.
And I think sometimes because like I have a certain
amount of privilege and comfort, you kind of ourselves conscious
because you know there is somebody out there who has
it worse. But I think we need to acknowledge like there, yeah,
(08:00):
there are people. This is like leaving them destitute. People
is you know, homeless ill dead, like that is real
and like let us never deny that level. But it
is so hard on everybody, and like, we have a
right to that plief and we have a right to
talk about how hard it is. Thank you for asking
how I am. I'm like, I'm getting by, you know,
(08:20):
like everyone right, and I'm just hoping you know that
these conversations and bringing up these issues, you know, we
can address some of those problems a little bit more.
Angela Garbez contributed to The Cut and author of Like
a Mother. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank
you so much for having me. He bought five dollars,
(08:44):
only put five into these options, but before he knew it,
he was caught up. He couldn't do anything else, could
think about anything else. He was playing tennis with his friends,
and literally after every point in the match, he was
ripping out his phone and checking into the car and
price how much he was making at losing. Joining us
now was Gregory Zuckerman, special writer at the Wall Street Journal.
(09:05):
Thanks for joining us, Greggory. Oh great to be here.
This is the story I was waiting for in all
of the game Stop Wall Street craziness. I wanted to
hear a story of somebody who got in, made some money,
some good money too, and got out. Didn't want to
keep kind of pushing his luck. Let's say, so we
have a story of a twenty four year old graduate
(09:26):
student from m I T he's in mechanical engineering. His
name is a new Bob Gua, and he turned five
hundred dollars into a little over two hundred thousand dollars
in about three weeks. Less than three weeks and all
this game stopped craziness. So Gregory tell us a little
bit more about his story. He's an easy guy to
root for. He's a grad stud in twenty four years
(09:47):
old m I. He's got a stipend of about thirty
six thousand dollars a year, so he's not like he's
rolling in money. And basically he had a little bit
of cash about four thousand dollars or so that decide
to play with and he did that starting about a
year ago back in Martin the pandemic really began and
(10:07):
he lost a good chunk of hits trading the market,
so he was downs about two thousand dollars and then
he stumbled upon Wall Street Bets, this suddenly popular subreddit
on the Reddit site, and they were talking about game stops.
So we got excited at any thought these options, which
basically are bullish trades bet on game stop and yeah,
(10:30):
he did really well. Tell us a little bit about
that sense of being a part of something bigger, because
a lot of people were feeling that same way. You're
with a group, you're with a community, and I think
that's where a lot of people are attracted to when
it comes to this subreddit, Wall Street beets it's not
just the money yet I love making the money. They
feel part of something large er. You know, we all
(10:52):
want to be part of communities, and not everyone goes
to the church in and Goga anymore. And we looked
for things, and some people look for politics, and now
others are drawn to trading. And as you suggest, he
sort of got into it early on. He was a
skeptical on being He was more of an investment decision,
and he made his best decision. He bought five hundred dollars.
He only put five hundred dollars into these options. But
(11:14):
before he knew it, he was caught up. He couldn't
do anything else, couldn't think about anything else. He was
playing tennants with his friends and literally after every point
in the match, he was whipping out his phone and
checking into the car and price, how much he was making,
how much he was losing. He was all encompassing, and
you know he was thinking about selling, but he'd go
on this fight this uh Wall Street Best and they
(11:35):
were saying, no, no no, it's going to a thousand's going
to five thousands. Don't tell, don't tell, And he got
caught up in it. And I don't mean it disparaging,
say it was calt like, but you could see how
people get caught up and it becomes a frenzy. And
that's what happened to him. And he almost see it.
Jokingly calls it a mini intervention, but he sort of
had to have his friends step in and say, dude,
tell you're up two hundred dollars. You don't know what's
(11:56):
gonna happen here. You need the money, sells now. And
he said that was the mantra for a lot of
people on Wall Street bets. You know, hold, don't sell.
We're gonna keep writing this, We're gonna keep writing that.
It didn't really play out that way. He sold. When
he sold it was right before the all time high,
thankfully obviously before it dropped. It was in like three
D four hundred range. I don't remember exactly what the
(12:17):
all time high was. I checked right before we did
the story, and the numbers changed constantly, so it could
be different by the time you know you hear this,
but it was about ninety three dollars. He got out
at the right time. He told his parents right after
he did it. He didn't want to worry them, he
didn't want to stress him out about what he was doing,
so he told them right after he got out, oh,
by the way, are you hearing him out the game
(12:38):
stop crazines? And they were like, no, they're anything about
games stops Shriff, And then he's like, yeah, I just
made training this thing. And his dad right away. I
love the response he's like, were you insider training? And
to his own sons, but the mothers like he wasn't
even like taken by it, untild You heard a few
days later some segment on MTR. But as you suggest,
(13:00):
he said he got bucky. His mom was all impressed,
his friends repressed. He's like, no, I got lucky here
because because he got out at the right time, and
if it wasn't for his friends started leaning on him
to get out, he probably gonna hold on and he'd
be down a lot, so a lot of its luck
and you feel bad for the people that got in
at the end. But he got out at the right time.
What's next for him? You know, he's got to pay
(13:20):
some taxes on in Boston is not a cheap city
to live in. What does he plan on doing with
all of that? When you hear he made two hundred
thousand in a few weeks, you feel the guy's bearing
in the shape. You know, you gotta pay short term
taxes on that, and that takes a huge chalk out.
The guy's living in an expensive city, so I I think,
and he's in a graduate program, it's gonna last a
number of years, six or seven years. I think. His
(13:41):
whole thing, frankly is his parents have some money, but
he wants to depend on himself. He don't want to
lean on them. And now he'll be able to pay
his for his education and such and his expenses. So
I give him a lot of credit. He seems like
a sweet enough kids. He liked When those kind of
people make money, you just feel for those types of
people who are getting in too late and maybe got
in when he was getting out, and for everyone of
(14:03):
these individuals that you root for there's somebody similar or
maybe got in a little too late, so you feel
bad for them. Gregory Zuckerman, Special writer at The Wall
Street Journal, thank you very much for joining us. Oh
great to be here. You are the heart and soul
(14:25):
of who we are as a country, and the rest
of the world is looking to you help them understand us,
and so we can help them as well. Joining us
now as Anita Kumar, White House correspondent and associate editor
at Politico, Thanks for joining us, Anita, sure, thanks for
having me. I always like these kind of stories, a
little peek into the White House, the governing styles, how
(14:45):
things work behind the scenes. President Joe Biden has been
in there a couple of weeks now, and we're seeing
how he's operating in there. Uh, we're hearing that he
likes to stroll around the White House in the East Wing.
He pops into other people's offices. He's very much an extrovert,
the people person, wants to talk to people face to face.
The pandemic kind of puts a little crunch on some
(15:05):
of that sometimes, but tell us how it's going so far,
and you know, kind of in contrast to the way
President Trump operated in there. Yeah, well, you're exactly right
about that. I mean, he has been known his whole life,
I think, for being an extrovert, very outgoing and wants
to see people, talk to people in person, and as
you mentioned, that's really hard during coronavirus. So he's not
getting out of the White House very often. He's not
(15:28):
traveling the country like we might expect during non COVID times.
So what we are seeing is him strolling around the
White House and popping into different offices just to say
hello and check in with staff or you know, for
a particular occasion or a particular meeting. We are seeing
him doing a good number of some of the meetings
he would be doing anyway with outside experts, but he's
(15:50):
trying to do those by video instead of, you know,
by phone, so he can see those people even if
he can't be in the same room with them. So
we're seeing a lot of that. You know, you asked
about Donald Trump. I think you know, Donald Trump also
liked to talk to people and see people and be seen,
and so there's a little bit of a similarity. But
I think beyond that, their style is completely different about
(16:13):
how they get information and talk to people. And try
to make those decisions. Yeah, I mean, obviously, Joe Biden
a politician for many, many years, He's definitely more of
that traditional style. President Trump a businessman, so he kind
of has that fast moving pace. But even the way
their time is structured and access to them is different.
Joe Biden has a very strict schedule of phone calls
(16:35):
that that are scheduled for him, you know, people that
control access to the Oval office, and it was a
little different for President Trump. There was a lot more
people that he welcomed in and out of the office.
Joe Biden is taking a much more traditional way to govern,
but this is sort of how he's done things. So
you know, he will have a set list of calls
(16:56):
to make that his staff will set up for him.
He will have scheduled meetings. We know that he's doing
national intelligence briefing every day. He's also getting a coronavirus
update every single day. Those are you know, from staffers.
But how he makes the decision is he'll get um,
you know, sort of a briefing paper. He likes to
read something, but he doesn't want it to be hugely long.
(17:19):
President Obama always liked to read a lot he want.
He wanted it to be all there, and he wanted
to read. And sometimes after he read, he didn't want
to talk about it because he had already read it,
he knew what it said. President Biden, he likes to
read it. He wants something concise, and then he wants
to talk about it. He wants to talk about it
with his aids, and then he wants to talk to
these outside experts, which could be someone that deals with
the policy, but it could also be a local official
(17:40):
or a state official. So he's having those kinds of
calls and meeting with his aids and making decisions that way.
You know, President Trump really didn't like to have those
briefing papers. He didn't want to read something. He would
sort of famously have his aids debate an issue right
in front of him. He wanted them to kind of
go at it a little it. So the style is
(18:01):
very different, but something that Joe Biden has brought from,
you know, his decades in public life before. And as
I mentioned, those gatekeepers that kind of really control him
and keep him on track and everything. It's really three people.
His chief of staff, Ron Clane, an ee to a Massini.
She's the director of Oval Office Operations. And Ashley Williams
was kind of like an executive assistant but got a
(18:21):
you know, a name change for her position just to
kind of elevate her there. But they're the they're the
three gatekeepers for President Biden. President Trumpet, you know, had
four chiefs of staff over four years, and one of
the big problems with you know, his clashes with them
is that he didn't like them controlling his schedule. So
that was one of the problems. You know, President Biden
(18:42):
really relies on these people to control the schedule for him.
So his chief of Staffron Clan is probably known to
a lot of people. He's been on TV a lot,
and he's pretty high profile. The other two women probably
people have never heard of them. But these are the
two women are basically running Joe Biden's life. Someone told
me that Ann Thomas City, who you mentioned, director of
Oval Office Operations, really does run Joe Biden's life. She
(19:05):
really is the person that makes everything work for him,
his schedule and all of that. So you're not going
to get in to see the president if you don't
go through one of these people. You know, you're not
going to get a call unless you schedule it with
one of those people. Anita Kumar, White House correspondent and
associate editor at Politico, Thank you very much for joining us. Sure,
(19:26):
thanks for having me. That's it for today. Join us
on social media at Daily Dive, pot and book, Twitter
and Instagram. Comment, give us a rating and tell us
or is that your induced Allow us and I heard
radio or subscribe wherever you get your podcast. This episode
(19:49):
of The Daily Divers produced by Baby Right and engineered
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