November 28, 2022 • 19 mins
With the economy slowing and many companies beginning to layoff workers, small businesses are in a tight spot as they continue to face staff shortages but are having a hard time competing with larger companies when it comes to offering higher wages. Small businesses are also reporting that about 90% of open positions are seeing few to no qualified applicants. Cheryl Winokur Munk, contributor to CNBC, joins us for how they can attract top talent by highlighting more than just wages.
Next, a look at what the latest news surrounding Taylor Swift fans and the huge demand for her concert tickets says about the economy. Despite uneven economic times, these turbocharged consumers are willing to pay almost anything to see their favorite artist, for them, there is no substitute. The pent-up demand over the pandemic and limited supply sent die-hard fans to crash the Ticketmaster website. Augusta Saraiva, economics reporter at Bloomberg News, joins us for what to know about “Swiftonomics.”
Finally, it was once a given at many live concerts, the band would end their show and spend a couple of minutes off-stage before coming back for a roaring encore. Now, some artists are doing away with them saying they just feel forced. They’d rather just play out a whole set, and not waste anyone’s time leaving a potential encore only for something memorable and not expected. Travis Andrews, features writer at The Washington Post, joins us for what to know.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Monday, November. I'm Oscar Roomieres in Los Angeles, and
this is the daily dive. With the economy slowing and
many companies beginning to lay off workers, small businesses are
in a tight spot as they continue to face staff shortages,
but are having a hard time competing with larger companies
when it comes to offering higher wages. Small businesses are
(00:22):
also reporting that about open positions are seeing few to
no qualified applicants. Cheryl Winnaker Monk, contributor to CNBC, joined
us for how they can attract top talent by highlighting
more than just wages. Next, a look at what the
latest news surrounding Taylor Swift ends and the huge demand
for her concert tickets says about the economy. Despite uneven
(00:43):
economic times, these turbo charged consumers are willing to pay
almost anything to see their favorite artist. For them, there
is no substitute. The pen of demand over the pandemic
and limited supply sent diehard fans to crash the ticketmaster website.
Augusta Sariva, economics reporter at Boom News, joins us for
what to know about swift ponomics. Finally, it was once
(01:04):
a given at many live concerts, the band would end
their show spend a couple of minutes off stage before
coming back to a roaring encore. Now some artists are
doing away with them, saying they just feel forced. They'd
rather play out a whole set and not waste anyone's
time leaving a potential encore only for something memorable and
not expected. Travis Andrews, features writer at The Washington Post,
(01:26):
joins us for What to Know. It's news without the noise.
Let's dive in. They'll ask candidates what they really want,
and those the campies will say they're willing to accept
a slightly lower salary in exchange for better benefits. Joining
us now is Cheryl Winnaker Monk, business reporter and contributor
(01:47):
to CNBC. Thanks for joining a show, Thanks for having me. Well,
let's talk about small businesses right now in this economy
that we have going on right now. Obviously, inflation continues
to be really high, there's fears of a recession looming,
and it's really tough for small businesses to compete with
larger companies, especially when it comes to filling job openings.
(02:10):
Right now, we're in this crazy time where you know,
we're seeing big tech companies start a lot of layoffs,
but in a lot of cases businesses, smaller businesses still
need workers to fill their ranks. There and um, you know,
what we're seeing is that there's a lot of open positions.
There might not be very many qualified applicants applying for
somebody's positions, So small businesses are having a tough time.
(02:30):
Ryls walk us through some of what we're seeing with this. Well,
it's especially tricky now because the tight labor market has
rising wages, and now more states and municipalities are posting
salary ranges because there are more rules on the books
about having to post these salary ranges, and that could
make small businesses look even less appealing from a salary perspective.
And they just can't compete sometimes on salary alone, and
(02:53):
sometimes they don't even try, which is okay, but they
have to be prepared to offer something instead of salary. So,
for example, I've talked to over the years that I
that I've reported on this subject, I've talked to various
business owners who say that they'll ask candidates what they
really want, and those the campanies will say they're willing
to accept a slightly lower salary in exchange for better benefits,
(03:19):
and those benefits can include the ability to work from home,
create flexible schedules, and other things. We've seen wages go
up with a lot of larger companies. These small businesses
just don't really have that same type of competitive age
when it comes to that, so they do they need
to highlight other things, other perks involved with the hiring
and everything. So even for small businesses, some tips on
(03:40):
how to attract new employees, they say, you know, don't
just necessarily make it all about the pay right, you know,
point to some of these benefits that are could be
more competitive, whether it be health benefits, time off. Parental
leave was one of the big top things that a
lot of people really wanted when they start a new job. Yeah,
I actually down that such pretty interesting that parental leave
(04:04):
was so important to people. I guess I didn't really
before I did the reporting, I didn't really think about
how important that might be. And honestly I didn't even
think about the fact that companies wouldn't offer it. Sort
of seemed like a given to me, but clearly not.
And because this um this recent survey from threes, which
is a disability insurance provider found that most employees would
prefer their employer offer paid parental leave instead of DISION insurance.
(04:27):
Employer paid fitness or mental health benefits were also employer
paid social events or student loan repayment METAFIT, which I
thought that was that was a pretty big deal that
clearly parental lead is important to many people. Another way,
you know, some of these experts suggests on how to
attract employees in this in this climate right now is
you know, involve some of the current staff, you know,
(04:48):
have them talk up some of the benefits and the
perks of working with whatever small business they're part of.
That way, people kind of see a human face behind it.
At least I thought that was such a good idea
when um I was told that in my reporting, I
just thought, it just makes it so human. You know,
during the interview process sometimes it's so it's so scary
anyway to be in a job interview for candidates, and
(05:08):
so when the employer takes the time to bring another
person in that's not necessarily going to be the boss,
but maybe someone who is in your age category or
has similar interests, or in some way like is like you.
It just humanizes the whole process and makes you feel like, oh, look,
other people work here who are like me, Other people
like working here. They clearly have benefits that appeal to
(05:30):
this person, and oh, this is how that person uses
it. It It just makes everything so much more real than
reading it in a benefits manual. You know, not all
benefits are equal, right, more, different benefits are important to
different people. And uh, you know, so when we're talking
about mental health benefits, of women value that more than
let's say, of men do. If there's any kind of
physical or or you know, jim benefits things like that,
(05:52):
everyone's going to kind of pick something that that caters
to them a little bit more specifically. So make sure
to at least highlight you know, we offer a wide
range of of these types of perks here. So one
of the challenges with small businesses is they can't necessarily
afford to do this like soup to nut package about events,
so they really have to figure out what's most important
for their set of employees. And that really is it's
(06:15):
a it's a balancing act. There's no necessary science to it.
I don't think. I think it's just really you know,
we have to involves maybe talking to some of your employees,
pulling them, continually pulling them to make sure each year
there's open enrollment season. So you know, as you're heading
into open enrollment and thinking about what you're going to
do for the following year, because these decisions are obviously
made well before the open enrollment period starts, but as
(06:37):
you're thinking about what you might offer, ask your employees
what a great way to figure out what they feel
is missing. This really can help with retention and in
attracting new employees as well. Cheryl Winnaker Monk, business reporter
and contributor to CNBC, Thank you very much for joining us,
(06:57):
Thanks for having me. What happened with yours economy? Next year? Right?
Are we going to have a recession? Where is consumer
demand going? And if you only look at Taylor Swift fans,
if you only look at demand for her ticket, demand
(07:18):
seems to be holding up pretty well. Joining us now
is Augusta Suriva, economics reporter at Bloomberg News. Thanks for
joining us, Agusta, thank you for having me. Well, let's
talk about an interesting thing going on right now in
the economy. You know, we're still seeing a lot of
uneven economic news inflation is still very high, there's fears
of a recession going on. But then there's this all
(07:40):
this pent up demand for a lot of things that
we didn't get to go through throughout the pandemic. A
lot of fun stuff, travel stuff, going to concerts, you know,
every all of that's roaring back now, and you know
it's it's not indicative of the average American consumer per se,
but there's a lot of die hard fans out there
that really want to get back into it. And um,
this whole thing that was going on with Taylor Swift
(08:02):
and how Ticketmaster couldn't handle the influx of people that
wanted to buy her her tickets on the resale market,
They're going for just crazy, crazy amounts. It kind of
paints an interesting picture of what's going on in the
economy too. So it just to tell us a little
bit more about this exactly. And I see that as
someone who also tried to get tickets last week. It
(08:24):
was a crazy experience. And as any canonist reporter, I
think the biggest question everyone has right now is what's
happened with the last economy next year? Right, are we
going to have a recession? Where is consumer demand going
and if you only look at Taylor Swift fans, if
you only look at demand for her ticket, demand seems
to be holding up pretty well. So what we're seeing
(08:45):
here is what we call swift aconomics. It's a place
where supplying demand two of the most basic concept of
economics are just upside down. This is a place where
you have kind of rocketing demand, you have a limited supply,
and at the same time you also have accusations of monopoly,
accusations of price gouging. So when you mix all of that,
it's just a crazy economic scenario. Music fans in general
(09:08):
that really seek out concerts and want to go do that.
You know they're they're always paying a pretty high premium
for getting out there. It's this kind of luxury item
for them that they want to splurge on. But obviously
we're using Taylor Swift as the example, just because of
all the stuff that we went through. You have all
this pent up demand. You have people who have perhaps
been saving and throughout the pandemic, or people who haven't
(09:31):
had a chance to save. But at the same time,
we were thinking, wait, I've been waiting in the tiem
of Taylor Swift four years five years by the time
hits the stage next year, and they're saying, well, maybe
now is the time to go all in. Right now
is the time to finally do all the stuff that
I wasn't able to do during the pandemic. And as
you said, Taylor Swift is just another example of that.
We saw similar case with Bruce Springsteen at the beginning
(09:54):
of the year where you saw ticket prices going for
over ten thousand dollars because people were a desperate to
see him in an example that I really love this
example of Cold Plane Argentina. Argentina is a country where
annual inflation is running at eighty brutes pan a year,
but at the same time Cold Plate had ten sold
out concerts at stadiums in Buenos Areas loft month, So
(10:16):
you're seeing all that pan dopument all over the world,
not only the West. A couple of people that you
spoke to, you know, really saving up that money. You
spoke to someone who had a two thousand dollar budget
for this. They said they would have gone as high
as three thousand just to get tickets. You spoke to
a mother who was trying to get tickets for her
for her two daughters, which I'm sure is a big
portion of the people trying to buy Taylor Swift tickets.
(10:38):
You know, they're they're they're really setting that money aside
for it exactly. And as you mentioned, I spoke to
this person who had been saving for ten months, had
a two thousand budget, but was telling me if this
person was able to get tickets through to different concerts,
but they were telling me I would spend three thousand
if I had to, because I've never seen Taylor Swift
play life. I've been waiting, truly my whole life did
(11:00):
so now it's the only chance I have in their mind.
And at the same time, I spoke to someone who
unfortunately we were not able to include in the story,
and this person was telling me by the time they
hit the Ticketmaster website that they were able to buy
the tickets. The tickets were way out of their budget
and they bought it anyways. And they were telling me,
while groceries is the only thing I can actually afforest
(11:22):
through the end of this month. You did mention ticket Master,
and I just wanted if you can speak on that
for a quick minute, because they couldn't handle the demand.
I think they said there was about fourteen million people
that swamped the website. Two point four million people were
able to get tickets. But they've gone through all this
stuff there, you know, allegations of monopolies on controlling the
ticket market and everything like that there, so they've been
(11:43):
going undergoing a lot of scrutiny to as you said,
when it comes to Ticketmaster, they had fourteen million people
hitting the website and they were expecting one point five
and they ended up selling out this war. They had
to cancel the official public sale last week because they
sold most of their tickets, if not all of them,
during the pre sale, and that was totally unexpected. It
(12:04):
was Swift wrote the record for the artists that told
the most tickets in a single day. So of course
we're seeing all the demand, uh, and the fact that
water was Ticketmaster, the parent company that was not able
to handle the demand. But you also have the sup
flight side, right, and when you think about what's the supply.
Taylor Swift announced seven teen extra concerts since she first
(12:26):
announced this work at the beginning of the month, she's
plain fifty two concerts at high capacity football stadium. So
even though she's trying to increase this flight, the demand.
It's just impossible to meet this kind of demand. And
Smoe told me, for the die hard fans, the demand
is pretty much an elastic Augusta Surviva, economics reporter at
Bloomberg News, thank you very much for joining us. Thank
(12:48):
you so much for having me, and so loud they
convinced the and yes, we need to come back out.
We need you a couple more songs. But if that's
not part of it anymore than just sort of an
old koutraman and I think some of these then said,
you know, why go through that kind of charade quote
(13:10):
unquote when we could just play a couple of extra songs.
Joining us now is Travis Andrews, Features writer at the
Washington Post. Thanks for joining us, Travis, Thanks so much
for having me. Well, it was once a given in
live concerts. Everybody always expected the band to go out there,
play a great set, you know, walk off, and then
come back with like a rousing encore. You know, sometimes
(13:31):
people would stay in clap for the whole time, you know,
the band was off stage, they'd shout encore. Whatever it
may be, there was something you kind of always expected.
But now there's a lot of bands that aren't really
doing that anymore. They say, it's kind of part of
this old show biz thing. It's a ruse. People come
to expect it, and they'd rather just play their hearts
out for a full set instead of coming out for
(13:52):
an encore. So Travis, he looked into this a little bit.
Tell us what you're finding. Yeah. Absolutely. The story actually
came about because I got to shows pretty didn't here
in Washington, and I started noticing that bands were kind
of playing straight through instead of you know, stepping off
stage for two minutes, five minutes, ten minutes. They would announce,
you know, we're not doing the encore thing anymore. And
(14:12):
I thought that was kind of fun. Frankly, it's nice
to get a couple of your songs in there. And
I started asking around and looking around. I felt like
one and more people started noticing this across genres. So
I dug into it a little bit and spoke to
to some bands that aren't doing it anymore. And you know,
there's nothing empirical here, but I do think that there
is a general kind of trend away from the encar
(14:34):
and you know, and a lot of bands are playing
in these uh you know, festivals and with a lot
of other bands where the timing is, you know, really
critical of how much time you have to be on stage.
So that's another reason why I think I've noticed why
a lot of people aren't doing encores either. You know,
it's the timing of the situation doesn't allow for it much.
Oh yeah, for sure, I think that's true. And then
(14:55):
I think that for the ones, even when the time
would allow for it. I think there's this a thing
that we've gotten to the point where everyone expects the encore, right,
you know what's going to happen, Like you said, if
the light still go up and you know it's coming,
And I think some of musicians just say, well, okay,
once upon a time, the idea of an encore is
a show so electric and so special that the crowd
(15:17):
is going nuts and it's so loud. They convinced the band, yes,
we need to come back out and need do a
couple more songs. But if that's not part of it
anymore than just sort of an old koutraman and I
think something as then said, you know, why go through
that kind of sharade quote unquote when we could just
play a couple of extra songs and just hang out
here and not necessarily lose the momentum that that we've
built up and everything like that. Tell me a little
(15:39):
bit more about some of the conversations you had with
bands and performers, because that's pretty much what they were
all saying right the time, that it takes us to
walk off stage and pretend, you know, and kind of
wait a little bit and build up that suspense they
could have played another song there. The other part of
it they're saying is, you know, they'd rather just play
their hearts out for a full set instead of you know,
taking that last break to your point right without losing
(15:59):
any moment antem. Yeah, absolutely so. I spoke to um
uh stuffun Babcock is the frontman a pup Pup this
kind of power pop band, the power punk band that
had a an album come out this year that was
it was really well alike and they were playing some
some bigger shows than they played in the past. But
they have always been antion core. The idea for them
being they don't need people to cheer for to get
(16:22):
them back out if anything, that kind of makes them
feel awkward, like people already paid to see us play.
Let's just play and they play you know, loud, faster music,
so in away. If you suddenly stop and have to restart,
that was a litlementum. The feeling in the room kind
of disappears. So it was interesting talking to them because
they definitely have been very vocal about this for about
eight nine years now since they got together. And you know,
(16:44):
I give them some credit for for kind of commencing
other bands that maybe this is, uh, this is the
way to go. And I should say there's some huge
bands who have never really played them. Food Fighters never
really played on course, The Strokes never really played on course. Yeah,
And the last concert I went to see was Harry
Styles in Los Angeles. It was a great show. He
put on a really good performance and you know, his
(17:06):
fans are just crazy right there, so into it, and
he did do an encore. He stepped off. It wasn't
very long, less than a minute, and then he came
back out and he did it and you know, because
the fans were so into it, it felt great. There
was a lot of energy in the room. But a
lot of these bands are saying, you know, unless it
we're going to do something super memorable or something completely
(17:27):
different than it's probably not worth it even Exactly. One
person I saw to Maths and uh, kind of a
folk rock guy. He was pretty interesting because he doesn't
tend to play on course, but he has been convinced
a couple of times. And one thing he said that
makes him feel really genuine and special is when he
is convinced, Like when he does feel like, oh, this
is a show, I need to play an encore, he
(17:48):
walks out. He hasn't planned the encore, so he has
a song he's gonna play. So he gets out there
and he's kind of going through his head like what's
on due? You know the band, and I know that
I can pull out right now, And it kind of
adds there you'll, you know, a live feeling to experience,
which I think is you know, important and what people
are looking for in live music. Bands put so much
into what their shows are going to be, the unexpected moment,
(18:12):
moments happened throughout. You know, they're not saving at all
for that last little thing, which they feel sometimes can
be a little bit played out. Yeah, exactly, And uh,
And one thing that Matt told me that kind of
really convinced him of what what a great encore can
be is he was seeing Metallic of Active a day
during their tour for the Black Album, and I wasn't
aware of this, and I loved finding this out. He
(18:33):
was there with too die hard Metallica fans right, and
Metallica plays. I believe it was at the Form in
Los Angeles, he said, and they do, you know, to
two and a half hours of music, they leave, stays
and come back to do the encore. The lights go up,
as we discussed, and everyone starts to leave. You said,
about half the crowd LEYSM. So that turns to leave
and his friends say, no, we got to stay. They're
coming back out, and that's like, what are you talking about?
(18:54):
Like they just played the encore. The lights are on
this house music so on, Like, no, they're on, I
might as well let's go home, and they say no,
just trust us, And sure enough, twenty minutes later the
lights went back down, which all comes out and place
for like another half hour, which is just kind of wild.
Travis Andrews, Features writer at The Washington Post. Thank you
very much for joining us. Oh thanks so much for
(19:17):
having me. That's it for today. Join us on social
media at Daily Dive Pod on both Twitter and Instagram,
leave us the comment, give us a rating, and tell
us stories that you're interested in. Follow us and I
Heard Radio or subscribe wherever you get your podcast. This
(19:39):
episode of The Daily Dive is produced by Victor Wright
and engineered by Tony Sarrantina. Hi'm Oscar Ramirors and this
was your Daily Dive
It's Monday, November. I'm Oscar Roomieres in Los Angeles, and
this is the daily dive. With the economy slowing and
many companies beginning to lay off workers, small businesses are
in a tight spot as they continue to face staff shortages,
but are having a hard time competing with larger companies
when it comes to offering higher wages. Small businesses are
(00:22):
also reporting that about open positions are seeing few to
no qualified applicants. Cheryl Winnaker Monk, contributor to CNBC, joined
us for how they can attract top talent by highlighting
more than just wages. Next, a look at what the
latest news surrounding Taylor Swift ends and the huge demand
for her concert tickets says about the economy. Despite uneven
(00:43):
economic times, these turbo charged consumers are willing to pay
almost anything to see their favorite artist. For them, there
is no substitute. The pen of demand over the pandemic
and limited supply sent diehard fans to crash the ticketmaster website.
Augusta Sariva, economics reporter at Boom News, joins us for
what to know about swift ponomics. Finally, it was once
(01:04):
a given at many live concerts, the band would end
their show spend a couple of minutes off stage before
coming back to a roaring encore. Now some artists are
doing away with them, saying they just feel forced. They'd
rather play out a whole set and not waste anyone's
time leaving a potential encore only for something memorable and
not expected. Travis Andrews, features writer at The Washington Post,
(01:26):
joins us for What to Know. It's news without the noise.
Let's dive in. They'll ask candidates what they really want,
and those the campies will say they're willing to accept
a slightly lower salary in exchange for better benefits. Joining
us now is Cheryl Winnaker Monk, business reporter and contributor
(01:47):
to CNBC. Thanks for joining a show, Thanks for having me. Well,
let's talk about small businesses right now in this economy
that we have going on right now. Obviously, inflation continues
to be really high, there's fears of a recession looming,
and it's really tough for small businesses to compete with
larger companies, especially when it comes to filling job openings.
(02:10):
Right now, we're in this crazy time where you know,
we're seeing big tech companies start a lot of layoffs,
but in a lot of cases businesses, smaller businesses still
need workers to fill their ranks. There and um, you know,
what we're seeing is that there's a lot of open positions.
There might not be very many qualified applicants applying for
somebody's positions, So small businesses are having a tough time.
(02:30):
Ryls walk us through some of what we're seeing with this. Well,
it's especially tricky now because the tight labor market has
rising wages, and now more states and municipalities are posting
salary ranges because there are more rules on the books
about having to post these salary ranges, and that could
make small businesses look even less appealing from a salary perspective.
And they just can't compete sometimes on salary alone, and
(02:53):
sometimes they don't even try, which is okay, but they
have to be prepared to offer something instead of salary. So,
for example, I've talked to over the years that I
that I've reported on this subject, I've talked to various
business owners who say that they'll ask candidates what they
really want, and those the campanies will say they're willing
to accept a slightly lower salary in exchange for better benefits,
(03:19):
and those benefits can include the ability to work from home,
create flexible schedules, and other things. We've seen wages go
up with a lot of larger companies. These small businesses
just don't really have that same type of competitive age
when it comes to that, so they do they need
to highlight other things, other perks involved with the hiring
and everything. So even for small businesses, some tips on
(03:40):
how to attract new employees, they say, you know, don't
just necessarily make it all about the pay right, you know,
point to some of these benefits that are could be
more competitive, whether it be health benefits, time off. Parental
leave was one of the big top things that a
lot of people really wanted when they start a new job. Yeah,
I actually down that such pretty interesting that parental leave
(04:04):
was so important to people. I guess I didn't really
before I did the reporting, I didn't really think about
how important that might be. And honestly I didn't even
think about the fact that companies wouldn't offer it. Sort
of seemed like a given to me, but clearly not.
And because this um this recent survey from threes, which
is a disability insurance provider found that most employees would
prefer their employer offer paid parental leave instead of DISION insurance.
(04:27):
Employer paid fitness or mental health benefits were also employer
paid social events or student loan repayment METAFIT, which I
thought that was that was a pretty big deal that
clearly parental lead is important to many people. Another way,
you know, some of these experts suggests on how to
attract employees in this in this climate right now is
you know, involve some of the current staff, you know,
(04:48):
have them talk up some of the benefits and the
perks of working with whatever small business they're part of.
That way, people kind of see a human face behind it.
At least I thought that was such a good idea
when um I was told that in my reporting, I
just thought, it just makes it so human. You know,
during the interview process sometimes it's so it's so scary
anyway to be in a job interview for candidates, and
(05:08):
so when the employer takes the time to bring another
person in that's not necessarily going to be the boss,
but maybe someone who is in your age category or
has similar interests, or in some way like is like you.
It just humanizes the whole process and makes you feel like, oh, look,
other people work here who are like me, Other people
like working here. They clearly have benefits that appeal to
(05:30):
this person, and oh, this is how that person uses
it. It It just makes everything so much more real than
reading it in a benefits manual. You know, not all
benefits are equal, right, more, different benefits are important to
different people. And uh, you know, so when we're talking
about mental health benefits, of women value that more than
let's say, of men do. If there's any kind of
physical or or you know, jim benefits things like that,
(05:52):
everyone's going to kind of pick something that that caters
to them a little bit more specifically. So make sure
to at least highlight you know, we offer a wide
range of of these types of perks here. So one
of the challenges with small businesses is they can't necessarily
afford to do this like soup to nut package about events,
so they really have to figure out what's most important
for their set of employees. And that really is it's
(06:15):
a it's a balancing act. There's no necessary science to it.
I don't think. I think it's just really you know,
we have to involves maybe talking to some of your employees,
pulling them, continually pulling them to make sure each year
there's open enrollment season. So you know, as you're heading
into open enrollment and thinking about what you're going to
do for the following year, because these decisions are obviously
made well before the open enrollment period starts, but as
(06:37):
you're thinking about what you might offer, ask your employees
what a great way to figure out what they feel
is missing. This really can help with retention and in
attracting new employees as well. Cheryl Winnaker Monk, business reporter
and contributor to CNBC, Thank you very much for joining us,
(06:57):
Thanks for having me. What happened with yours economy? Next year? Right?
Are we going to have a recession? Where is consumer
demand going? And if you only look at Taylor Swift fans,
if you only look at demand for her ticket, demand
(07:18):
seems to be holding up pretty well. Joining us now
is Augusta Suriva, economics reporter at Bloomberg News. Thanks for
joining us, Agusta, thank you for having me. Well, let's
talk about an interesting thing going on right now in
the economy. You know, we're still seeing a lot of
uneven economic news inflation is still very high, there's fears
of a recession going on. But then there's this all
(07:40):
this pent up demand for a lot of things that
we didn't get to go through throughout the pandemic. A
lot of fun stuff, travel stuff, going to concerts, you know,
every all of that's roaring back now, and you know
it's it's not indicative of the average American consumer per se,
but there's a lot of die hard fans out there
that really want to get back into it. And um,
this whole thing that was going on with Taylor Swift
(08:02):
and how Ticketmaster couldn't handle the influx of people that
wanted to buy her her tickets on the resale market,
They're going for just crazy, crazy amounts. It kind of
paints an interesting picture of what's going on in the
economy too. So it just to tell us a little
bit more about this exactly. And I see that as
someone who also tried to get tickets last week. It
(08:24):
was a crazy experience. And as any canonist reporter, I
think the biggest question everyone has right now is what's
happened with the last economy next year? Right, are we
going to have a recession? Where is consumer demand going
and if you only look at Taylor Swift fans, if
you only look at demand for her ticket, demand seems
to be holding up pretty well. So what we're seeing
(08:45):
here is what we call swift aconomics. It's a place
where supplying demand two of the most basic concept of
economics are just upside down. This is a place where
you have kind of rocketing demand, you have a limited supply,
and at the same time you also have accusations of monopoly,
accusations of price gouging. So when you mix all of that,
it's just a crazy economic scenario. Music fans in general
(09:08):
that really seek out concerts and want to go do that.
You know they're they're always paying a pretty high premium
for getting out there. It's this kind of luxury item
for them that they want to splurge on. But obviously
we're using Taylor Swift as the example, just because of
all the stuff that we went through. You have all
this pent up demand. You have people who have perhaps
been saving and throughout the pandemic, or people who haven't
(09:31):
had a chance to save. But at the same time,
we were thinking, wait, I've been waiting in the tiem
of Taylor Swift four years five years by the time
hits the stage next year, and they're saying, well, maybe
now is the time to go all in. Right now
is the time to finally do all the stuff that
I wasn't able to do during the pandemic. And as
you said, Taylor Swift is just another example of that.
We saw similar case with Bruce Springsteen at the beginning
(09:54):
of the year where you saw ticket prices going for
over ten thousand dollars because people were a desperate to
see him in an example that I really love this
example of Cold Plane Argentina. Argentina is a country where
annual inflation is running at eighty brutes pan a year,
but at the same time Cold Plate had ten sold
out concerts at stadiums in Buenos Areas loft month, So
(10:16):
you're seeing all that pan dopument all over the world,
not only the West. A couple of people that you
spoke to, you know, really saving up that money. You
spoke to someone who had a two thousand dollar budget
for this. They said they would have gone as high
as three thousand just to get tickets. You spoke to
a mother who was trying to get tickets for her
for her two daughters, which I'm sure is a big
portion of the people trying to buy Taylor Swift tickets.
(10:38):
You know, they're they're they're really setting that money aside
for it exactly. And as you mentioned, I spoke to
this person who had been saving for ten months, had
a two thousand budget, but was telling me if this
person was able to get tickets through to different concerts,
but they were telling me I would spend three thousand
if I had to, because I've never seen Taylor Swift
play life. I've been waiting, truly my whole life did
(11:00):
so now it's the only chance I have in their mind.
And at the same time, I spoke to someone who
unfortunately we were not able to include in the story,
and this person was telling me by the time they
hit the Ticketmaster website that they were able to buy
the tickets. The tickets were way out of their budget
and they bought it anyways. And they were telling me,
while groceries is the only thing I can actually afforest
(11:22):
through the end of this month. You did mention ticket Master,
and I just wanted if you can speak on that
for a quick minute, because they couldn't handle the demand.
I think they said there was about fourteen million people
that swamped the website. Two point four million people were
able to get tickets. But they've gone through all this
stuff there, you know, allegations of monopolies on controlling the
ticket market and everything like that there, so they've been
(11:43):
going undergoing a lot of scrutiny to as you said,
when it comes to Ticketmaster, they had fourteen million people
hitting the website and they were expecting one point five
and they ended up selling out this war. They had
to cancel the official public sale last week because they
sold most of their tickets, if not all of them,
during the pre sale, and that was totally unexpected. It
(12:04):
was Swift wrote the record for the artists that told
the most tickets in a single day. So of course
we're seeing all the demand, uh, and the fact that
water was Ticketmaster, the parent company that was not able
to handle the demand. But you also have the sup
flight side, right, and when you think about what's the supply.
Taylor Swift announced seven teen extra concerts since she first
(12:26):
announced this work at the beginning of the month, she's
plain fifty two concerts at high capacity football stadium. So
even though she's trying to increase this flight, the demand.
It's just impossible to meet this kind of demand. And
Smoe told me, for the die hard fans, the demand
is pretty much an elastic Augusta Surviva, economics reporter at
Bloomberg News, thank you very much for joining us. Thank
(12:48):
you so much for having me, and so loud they
convinced the and yes, we need to come back out.
We need you a couple more songs. But if that's
not part of it anymore than just sort of an
old koutraman and I think some of these then said,
you know, why go through that kind of charade quote
(13:10):
unquote when we could just play a couple of extra songs.
Joining us now is Travis Andrews, Features writer at the
Washington Post. Thanks for joining us, Travis, Thanks so much
for having me. Well, it was once a given in
live concerts. Everybody always expected the band to go out there,
play a great set, you know, walk off, and then
come back with like a rousing encore. You know, sometimes
(13:31):
people would stay in clap for the whole time, you know,
the band was off stage, they'd shout encore. Whatever it
may be, there was something you kind of always expected.
But now there's a lot of bands that aren't really
doing that anymore. They say, it's kind of part of
this old show biz thing. It's a ruse. People come
to expect it, and they'd rather just play their hearts
out for a full set instead of coming out for
(13:52):
an encore. So Travis, he looked into this a little bit.
Tell us what you're finding. Yeah. Absolutely. The story actually
came about because I got to shows pretty didn't here
in Washington, and I started noticing that bands were kind
of playing straight through instead of you know, stepping off
stage for two minutes, five minutes, ten minutes. They would announce,
you know, we're not doing the encore thing anymore. And
(14:12):
I thought that was kind of fun. Frankly, it's nice
to get a couple of your songs in there. And
I started asking around and looking around. I felt like
one and more people started noticing this across genres. So
I dug into it a little bit and spoke to
to some bands that aren't doing it anymore. And you know,
there's nothing empirical here, but I do think that there
is a general kind of trend away from the encar
(14:34):
and you know, and a lot of bands are playing
in these uh you know, festivals and with a lot
of other bands where the timing is, you know, really
critical of how much time you have to be on stage.
So that's another reason why I think I've noticed why
a lot of people aren't doing encores either. You know,
it's the timing of the situation doesn't allow for it much.
Oh yeah, for sure, I think that's true. And then
(14:55):
I think that for the ones, even when the time
would allow for it. I think there's this a thing
that we've gotten to the point where everyone expects the encore, right,
you know what's going to happen, Like you said, if
the light still go up and you know it's coming,
And I think some of musicians just say, well, okay,
once upon a time, the idea of an encore is
a show so electric and so special that the crowd
(15:17):
is going nuts and it's so loud. They convinced the band, yes,
we need to come back out and need do a
couple more songs. But if that's not part of it
anymore than just sort of an old koutraman and I
think something as then said, you know, why go through
that kind of sharade quote unquote when we could just
play a couple of extra songs and just hang out
here and not necessarily lose the momentum that that we've
built up and everything like that. Tell me a little
(15:39):
bit more about some of the conversations you had with
bands and performers, because that's pretty much what they were
all saying right the time, that it takes us to
walk off stage and pretend, you know, and kind of
wait a little bit and build up that suspense they
could have played another song there. The other part of
it they're saying is, you know, they'd rather just play
their hearts out for a full set instead of you know,
taking that last break to your point right without losing
(15:59):
any moment antem. Yeah, absolutely so. I spoke to um
uh stuffun Babcock is the frontman a pup Pup this
kind of power pop band, the power punk band that
had a an album come out this year that was
it was really well alike and they were playing some
some bigger shows than they played in the past. But
they have always been antion core. The idea for them
being they don't need people to cheer for to get
(16:22):
them back out if anything, that kind of makes them
feel awkward, like people already paid to see us play.
Let's just play and they play you know, loud, faster music,
so in away. If you suddenly stop and have to restart,
that was a litlementum. The feeling in the room kind
of disappears. So it was interesting talking to them because
they definitely have been very vocal about this for about
eight nine years now since they got together. And you know,
(16:44):
I give them some credit for for kind of commencing
other bands that maybe this is, uh, this is the
way to go. And I should say there's some huge
bands who have never really played them. Food Fighters never
really played on course, The Strokes never really played on course. Yeah,
And the last concert I went to see was Harry
Styles in Los Angeles. It was a great show. He
put on a really good performance and you know, his
(17:06):
fans are just crazy right there, so into it, and
he did do an encore. He stepped off. It wasn't
very long, less than a minute, and then he came
back out and he did it and you know, because
the fans were so into it, it felt great. There
was a lot of energy in the room. But a
lot of these bands are saying, you know, unless it
we're going to do something super memorable or something completely
(17:27):
different than it's probably not worth it even Exactly. One
person I saw to Maths and uh, kind of a
folk rock guy. He was pretty interesting because he doesn't
tend to play on course, but he has been convinced
a couple of times. And one thing he said that
makes him feel really genuine and special is when he
is convinced, Like when he does feel like, oh, this
is a show, I need to play an encore, he
(17:48):
walks out. He hasn't planned the encore, so he has
a song he's gonna play. So he gets out there
and he's kind of going through his head like what's
on due? You know the band, and I know that
I can pull out right now, And it kind of
adds there you'll, you know, a live feeling to experience,
which I think is you know, important and what people
are looking for in live music. Bands put so much
into what their shows are going to be, the unexpected moment,
(18:12):
moments happened throughout. You know, they're not saving at all
for that last little thing, which they feel sometimes can
be a little bit played out. Yeah, exactly, And uh,
And one thing that Matt told me that kind of
really convinced him of what what a great encore can
be is he was seeing Metallic of Active a day
during their tour for the Black Album, and I wasn't
aware of this, and I loved finding this out. He
(18:33):
was there with too die hard Metallica fans right, and
Metallica plays. I believe it was at the Form in
Los Angeles, he said, and they do, you know, to
two and a half hours of music, they leave, stays
and come back to do the encore. The lights go up,
as we discussed, and everyone starts to leave. You said,
about half the crowd LEYSM. So that turns to leave
and his friends say, no, we got to stay. They're
coming back out, and that's like, what are you talking about?
(18:54):
Like they just played the encore. The lights are on
this house music so on, Like, no, they're on, I
might as well let's go home, and they say no,
just trust us, And sure enough, twenty minutes later the
lights went back down, which all comes out and place
for like another half hour, which is just kind of wild.
Travis Andrews, Features writer at The Washington Post. Thank you
very much for joining us. Oh thanks so much for
(19:17):
having me. That's it for today. Join us on social
media at Daily Dive Pod on both Twitter and Instagram,
leave us the comment, give us a rating, and tell
us stories that you're interested in. Follow us and I
Heard Radio or subscribe wherever you get your podcast. This
(19:39):
episode of The Daily Dive is produced by Victor Wright
and engineered by Tony Sarrantina. Hi'm Oscar Ramirors and this
was your Daily Dive
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