WEEKEND EDITION- Chauvin Guilty In George Floyd Murder, More Cops Be Charged in Shootings, AZ Border Emergency

This is a compilation of some of the most compelling stories of the week.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the Daily Dive Weekend edition. I'm Oscar Ramirez,
and every week I explored the top stories making waves
in the news and some that are just playing interesting.
I'll connect you with the journalists and the people who
know the story and bring you news without the noise
so you can make an informed decision. You can catch
a new episode of The Daily Dive every Monday through Friday,
and it's ready when you wake up. On the weekend edition,

(00:27):
I'll be bringing you some of the best stories from
the week. The biggest story of the week was the
verdict coming in and the Derek Chauvin trial, the former
Minneapolis police officer who knelt on George Floyd's neck for
more than nine minutes, causing his death. He was found
guilty on all three counts second and third degree murder
in addition to second degree manslaughter. It was a very

(00:49):
emotional case and many feel that justice has been served,
but it's just a first step toward accountability. For more
in this story and to help break down this historic verdict,
will speak to Janelle Griffith, national reporter at NBC News.
So it's definitely chaotic and I would describe it as
very emotional. Once the verdict was announced, a lot of
people erupted into tears. They were hugging each other, people

(01:13):
were chanting all three and chanting black lives Matter, people
of all races, not just black people. It's a very
mixed race crowd, and people were definitely celebratory, and they're
also being mindful to each other. And just two news outlets,
they're speaking to reporters like myself, they're telling us this
is just the beginning, this is just the start. So

(01:35):
the mood is definitely celebratory, but it's also a little somber,
and it's looking ahead at what yet needs to be
done in our country with regard to policing. Yeah, just
seeing some of the reactions so far, it seemed like
a collective sigh of relief. I know people have said
justice has been served. A lot of people saying justice
has been served, but it's just the beginning. There's still

(01:55):
a lot more to go, but this is a beginning
at least. That's definitely what I'm hearing from people too.
I've been speaking to lots of people. I've been here
following it every step of the way, and I've been
out here before the verdict was announced that people were
telling me that they were hopeful. They said that the
fact that the verdicts came down about ten hours after

(02:17):
the jury had started deliberating. They deliberated for about ten
hours over two days, and they took that as a
sign to mean that he was guilty. They felt like
the longer that the jury had deliberated it would be
a sign of them being confused or at odd. So
the length of time was an indicator to a lot
of people that it would be a guilty verdict, but
they did not necessarily interpreted to mean guilty on all

(02:38):
three counts. And a lot of people are saying they
hoped that this has an influence across the country because
there are problems in policing across our country that people
have been objecting to for years, and George Floyd's death
just reignited those problems, and they hoped that with this
verdict it can open more conversations and actually invoked serious

(03:01):
change where there needs to be. We got a statement
from Ben Crump, he's the attorney for the Floyd family,
and he said that painfully earned justice is finally a
right for George Floyd's family, and this verdict is a
turning point in history, and it sends a clear message
on the need for accountability for law enforcement. So definitely
that's where people want to go on. And I just
want to remind everybody you know, Janelle's joining us outside

(03:23):
of the courthouse. So there's a lot of noise going on.
But the next steps in all of this the sentencing.
It could be a few weeks away, but the judge
also has to consider aggravating factors, which is going to
be an important point. They could make the sentence even longer. Yes,
the judge definitely will have to factor that in. What
he has on his side is that he clearly he

(03:44):
didn't have any criminal history. But the judge will have
the final say in terms of the length of his sentence.
It's interesting to know. I don't know if you were aware,
but we reported recently, as did other news outlet, that
a few days after George Floyd's death, Derek Chauvin was
willing to plead guilty to third degree murder and he

(04:04):
was willing to serve at least ten years in prison.
But William Barr, who was the Attorney General at the time,
he killed the deal, and people close to him told
US and other outlets that the reason why was because
he feared that the sentence was too lenient and that
it would cause a great uproar with that sentence up
to ten years. So he killed it and now here
we are and he faces a much different punishment than

(04:26):
just ten years. So I wonder if that's something that
is weighing on him, Chauvin. You know, had he been
able to go ahead with that plea, he would have
only faced ten years, and now he's facing a much, much,
much more punishment. I think the counts of second degree
and third degree I think at a minimum or the
presumed initial sentences about twelve and a half years. So

(04:47):
that's kind of a starting point possibly. And as we
mentioned that these aggravating factors, there's five different ones. Floyd
was vulnerable because he had his hands tied behind his back,
he was treated with cruelty, the police abused their position
of authority, the officers committed at as a group, and
it was done in front of children also, So these
are all considerations that are going to be taken into

(05:08):
account for that, yes, and I imagine they will weigh
heavily when the judges deciding it. Time will tell but
I can't imagine it helps his case in any way.
The last thing, if you can comment on us, Janelle,
is the burden of proof was on the prosecution. They
had to make the jury feel that, without a reasonable doubt,
Derek Chauvin did cause the murder of George Floyd, and

(05:31):
obviously they did that. The defense was shaky all along,
and some of the way they approached this, I mean,
you kind of shake your head at it. So definitely
a victory for the prosecution team, and the defense just
did not muster enough to win this. They didn't And
I actually recently did an article about this. I spoke
to a handful of legal experts, probably half a dozen

(05:54):
prosecutors and also defense attorneys, and what they unanimously said
was that they basically Eric Nelson was no match for
this prosecution. It was a team of all stars. The
majority of the attorneys where seasoned attorneys, long time attorneys.
He was no match for them. They had thirty eight
witnesses to his seven, and only two of his seven

(06:15):
were experts, so he was clearly the underdog. And really,
like you said, he didn't really have a defense. He
was blaming George Floyd's death on his preexisting health condition,
but even the medical examiner's ruling didn't side with him,
and the prosecution had these all star witnesses from the
police chief himself in the rare rebuke that we have

(06:36):
discussed previously, he rebuked Chauvin, and then he had people
like Dr Tobin, who is a world renowned pulmitologist who
literally mapped out the minute George Floyd stopped breathing. Didn't
have it, Yes, excellent testimony. He was able to break
down this very complicated medical language to the average lay

(06:56):
person and it clearly translated. Because here we are with
show It being found guilty on all three counts and
the key thing all along all of the video evidence
that was also there. So you know, we'll see. The
conversation is going to continue, but for now, a historic
verdict in this trial. Janelle Griffith, National reporter at NBC News,
thank you very much for joining us. Thank you so

(07:17):
much for having me. After these guilty verdicts in the
George Floyd murder case, a lot of attention has been
turned to what's next. District attorneys and law enforcement researchers
say that with this decision more prosecutors are going to
be willing to charge police officers and shootings. With increased
attention to policeman's conduct and this high profile conviction, prosecutors

(07:40):
may be more aggressive in these types of cases. For
more and what to expect, will speak to Dan Frost,
reporter at the Wall Street Journal. I think we have
to remember that this case is really unusual in terms
of the conviction that was won by the prosecutors. It
is very rare to get a conviction in a fatal
shooting involving police officers. Of the hundred forty cops who

(08:02):
were charged in fatal shooting since two thousand five, only
seven were convicted of murdering and thirty seven were convicted
of lesser crimes, according to a research at Bowling Green
State University. So it's exceedingly rare to get one of
these convictions. But I think what we're seeing is that
because of the confluence of factors, greater public awareness around
alleged police misconduct video incidents like this one, and the

(08:26):
sense that there is greater pressure on district attorneys, who
we have to remember, are by and large elected, that
we will see more action in terms of some of
these DA's deciding to prosecute police officers because they think
they might be able to get a conviction. In the
wake of the children case, you were mentioning some of
the numbers, A hundred and forty police officers charged in
fatal shooting since two thousand five, only seven convicted of

(08:49):
murder worth seeing about a thousand deadly police shootings a
year according to some of those Bowling Green State University numbers.
So that just kind of illustrates even how a few
charges we get out of it, and a lot of
it is because there's very high standards for charging police.
They're giving a lot of leeway to use force when
they're encountering the public for a variety of reasons, you know,

(09:10):
their safety, the safety of others and all that. That's
absolutely right, and you know, we have to remember that
usually in these cases we will see sort of split
second decisions made by law enforcement, and maybe that decision
is right, and maybe that decision is wrong, but law
enforcement in general in these cases have been able to
successfully use that sort of defense to preclude any convictions

(09:33):
or even charges. The children case was different because obviously
there was no split second decision. Children sat kneeled on
George Floyd for over nine minutes. There was no imminent
fear of danger or any of the other reasons that
police officers accused of misconduct in fatal shootings often used.

(09:55):
So this case is different in that regard. But in
terms of your larger point, yes, there are very few
convictions because law enforcement are given a wide latitude in
terms of the powers they have to protect life and
their own ability to use deadly force. Talk about the
split second decisions. We're seeing that play out right now
in the story out of Columbus, Ohio, where an officer

(10:17):
shot mckea Bryant, which she was charging another person with
a knife. He had to make that decision and he
shot her. Unfortunately she died, but you know the way
that the story goes protecting the other person from being killed,
possibly with a knife. So tell me a little bit
more about kind of the ebb and flow of how
we see these charges come through, because you made note
in your article about the death of Michael Brown and Ferguson,

(10:39):
and after that we did see a rise in officers
being charged, and then it kind of tapered back off,
and then obviously George Floyd happened, and then you know,
so they expect that this might even happen more. That's
absolutely right. I mean, in the same goes for sort
of police reform legislation. We see this ebb and flow
of prosecute actions police reform legislation around high profile incidents.

(11:03):
When there is pressure on politicians, there's pressure on district attorneys, who,
as I mentioned before, are elected to take action, and
when the public raises its voice collectively as we saw
last summer, that pressure builds and then you know the
challenges when that public pressure dissipates, we sort of revert
back to where things were before, and so you don't

(11:24):
necessarily see prosecutors perhaps taking a harder look at some
of these cases, because prosecutors will only press charges in
cases where they think they can earn a conviction, and
whether or not cases move forward often time depends on
the public consciousness at a particular moment in history and
any sort of recent precedent in cases like the George

(11:46):
Floyd case, like where we're seeing now, which experts think
could potentially, at least in the short term, lead to
a rise in prosecutions of officers. Yeah, I mean, you know,
we'll have to definitely see and that's why community is
an active is say, you all got to keep up
that pressure, keep it out there so that the public
is constantly aware of it and as you mentioned, reforms, actions,

(12:07):
whatever it is, can be taken. We're getting ready for
the trial for the three other officers involved in the
George Floyd incident and see how that will turn out.
You know, obviously Derek Chauvin being convicted of murder doesn't
vote as well for them as if as if he
got off. So a lot of stuff still to go through.
Dan Frost, reporter at the Wall Street Journal, thank you

(12:28):
very much for joining us. Glad to be here, Thanks
so much for having me. Also this week we saw
a state of emergency declared at the Arizona border. Governor
Doug Doocey has blamed the Biden administration for the surgeon
illegal crossings and said that about two and fifty National
Guard troops would be deployed to the area to help

(12:49):
local law enforcement that is overwhelmed. Well. Uncompanied miners continues
to be a problem in Arizona. We're seeing an influx
of single adult males. For more on this, will speak
to Alicia Caldwell Immigration reporter at the Wall Street Channel.
So in Arizona you've got two border patrol sectors, Yuma
and two Son, so the state's not quite divided in half.
Two Sons is a much bigger land mass area for

(13:12):
border patrol. But you've got a lot of tingle adults
coming through too soon and a lot of families and
kids coming through both areas. What's happening effectively is Border
patrol doesn't have any room to hold them because of
the pandemic and limited space. You don't want to put
people in crowded border patrol stations. It's never a good
idea to put children in those facilities. According to Border Patrol,

(13:35):
they're not designed for them. They're not designed for families either.
Then you add the pandemic and they're out of space.
So they're putting up tents as we speak. One has
gone up in Yuma. These are big, thirty thousand square
foot hence divided into different pods where families and kids
and single adults are held. Primarily family and kids. They're
only supposed to be there for seventy two hours, a

(13:56):
maximum of seventy two hours. They're often they're in terms
of the kids for longer because border patrol is in
a bit of a pickle, if you will, to sort of,
I don't want to be good about it, but they
can't release children. The children have to be sent off
to another government agency, the Department of Health and Human Services,
and there's a backup there. So you've got all these

(14:17):
different backups happening. And in Arizona right now, the big
concern from local governments and some small towns is that
families are being released in their communities, known as staying
in those communities. No one is staying in Apo Arizona,
which is in the middle of the desert north of
the border, but doesn't have any infrastructure to handle folks.

(14:37):
Stame with a town north of there called La Bend.
Those migrants then will be taken to Tucson or Phoenix,
where they will be sheltered by non government organizations and
they'll be helped you know, along their way into the
interior of the US wherever they were headed. But again
the problem is that there are a lot of people
in Tucson. As I said, it's the big issue is
single adults. There are lots of them something across the

(15:01):
border illegally, but you do have that mix of families
and kids as well. You know, a lot of times
when we hear about stories that you know, people come
to the border, the first inclination that people think of
is Texas, and they're the only really place where we've
seen some pictures of some of these centers where the
kids are and where some of the adults are being held.
Have we seen anything like that in Arizona, any any

(15:21):
pictures or optics from that. We've not seen pictures. But
it's a different situation in Arizona. What you're seeing in
Texas is not what you're seeing in Arizona. So you
don't have significant groups of people, meaning a hundred or
two hundred people at a time, surrendering to the border
patrol the way you do in South Texas. In Arizona,
like I said, it's it's a lot of single adults crossing.

(15:43):
So those single adults can be turned around, they can
be actually sent back across the Mexican border under a
public health law called Title forty two that allows the
government to expel them back to Mexico. No harm, no foul.
You're just pushed back into Mexico, regardless of whether or
not you're from Mexico, so long as the Mexican government
will accept you with the families, some of those folks

(16:05):
are sent back as well. None of the kids can
be sent back because the Biden administration has has decided
that they will not expel unaccompanied kids. So you don't
have the same volumes. You have different problems in Arizona
and you haven't in Texas. If your listeners know Arizona
at all, they know it's really rugged. There's lots of mountains.
I was just down there on the border in Cochise County,

(16:28):
which is sort of in the almost the dead center
of the state. Well, I guess it's sort of the
center east of the state. Right along the border. There
are massive mountains their spence line there or border wall,
which whichever you want to call it. But it's not
been completed, and in some cases, in fact, the Trump
administration sort cheered off the sides of mountains to put
in infrastructure, and then obviously they left office and the

(16:50):
Biden administration is not putting in that infrastructure. So I
got a bunch of roads down there now that didn't
exist before, and you've got people crossing in those desert
areas with greater frequency, and it's a border. Remember that
Arizona is no stranger to loss of border crossings. Arizona
in fact was one of the hot spots in the
two thousands before families and kids were an issue, so

(17:12):
this is nothing new to them. The new component is
the families and kids, and those families and kids being
released at the border or being held intent facilities until
they can be transferred or released. So that's kind of
what you're dealing with in Arizona right now. There's always
mixed feelings when the Guard is being deployed, the money
aspect of it. The two Democratic senators from Arizona actually

(17:35):
said that this was a good decision. They agreed with
it at least, and said that there is some support
needed there. But what are they going to be doing,
because that's always the big question, you know, why bringing
the guards? What are they going to be doing? So
they're actually joining other do O D assets that are
already there. It's in border to remember that under President Trump,
the National Guard was deployed along with active duty military

(17:57):
and natural Guard has been deployed over the severe since
really the Bush administration and Earnest uh excuse me, W
Bush President George W. Bush. So they're joining some already
deployed resources at the border, but they're not allowed to
do any immigration enforcement. They're not allowed to do any
law enforcement. So they're gonna help with monitoring cameras, deploying cameras.

(18:19):
According to the government, they'll help in detention facilities in
terms of medical care, providing medical care because obviously in
the midst of a pandemic, that's a significant issue, and
you do have a lot of people who come across
the border who are in need of medical care. Aside
from the pandemic. It's a treacherous trip, so it's not
unheard of for someone to be injured along the road.
But it's incredibly important that we stress the National Guard

(18:43):
can't enforce immigration or really help with immigration enforcement because
of a variety of laws poppycomatatos, you're not allowed to
conduct law enforcement as US military in the US in
this setting. So they're there to help and augment and
really in misdeployment, they'll be there to help and augment
local law enforcement and state troopers and so on. Well,

(19:05):
we'll see if you know, it helps remedy some of
the situation that's going on. There. The other the interesting
thing will be to see how the Biden administration reacts
to all of this, and uh, you know again, this
is just increasingly becoming a problem there that needs to
be addressed. Alicia Caldwell, immigration reporter at the Wall Street Journal.
Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you don't

(19:29):
forget to join us on social media at Daily Dive
Pod on Twitter and Daily Dive Podcast on Facebook. Leave
us a comment, give us a rating, and tell us
the stories that you're interested in. Follow us on I
Heart Radio, or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Hi'm
Oscar Ramirez and this is the Daily Dive Weekend edition