October 8, 2021 • 53 mins
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm George Ori and welcome to the new I
Heart Radio and Coast to Coast a paranormal podcast network.
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with everyone. This is an exciting new network that will
feature podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, and the unexplained. Now,
please sit back and enjoy Dark Becomes Light with Heidi Hollis.
(00:27):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware of the thoughts
and opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and
opinions only and do not reflect those of I Heart Media,
I Heart Radio, Coast to Coast AM, employees of premier networks,
or their sponsors and associates. We would like to encourage
you to do your own research and discover the subject
(00:50):
matter for yourself. You are listening to Dark Becomes Light
with Me Heidi Hollis on the I Heart Radio and
(01:11):
Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast Network. Welcome to my show.
Remember each week this is the place that you go
to when you want to learn about what is going
on out there in the world. When it comes to
anything and everything out of the ordinary. I don't care
if it's Big Bood, moth Man, or shadow people or
(01:34):
near death experiences, or if you're having truly weird waking dreams,
out of body experiences. I mean, how else are we
going to get to know what's going on out there
in the world unless we connect, unless we tell somebody,
And uh, well, I'm kind of broadcasting it, um, but yeah,
(01:54):
this is the place. So go to my main website,
which is shadow Folks dot com or Heidi Hollis dot
com and write me, tell me what's going on. You're
always welcome to come on this program to share, But
I am telling you, nine times out of ten, everybody
would prefer to send me an email. And I don't
mind because the details and the form of communicating sometimes
(02:17):
it's easier for people and their nerves don't get the
better of them where they're trying to think of what
best to say next. So the longer the email, the better.
I don't mind one bit. And I'm telling you I
have learned something and it's something I've kind of realized
for a long time, Like I'm I'm part of the
old school. I guess you could say, where we had
(02:38):
the UFO meetings and got to meet people face to face,
and but it's not that old school isn't because there's
a lot of people that still do that, but in
the COVID world it makes it a lot more difficult.
And I get it, um, but there's something that's missing
when it comes to this COVID world or the Internet world,
where we're just zooming and we google and we find
(03:02):
a forum and we get some information and it's like, okay,
I shared, I think, but there's something to be said
about physically connecting with people, getting out and meeting people.
And I'm bringing this up for a reason because, my goodness,
I had a blast. More recently haven't gone to a
(03:25):
UFO festival, and wow, I didn't know how much I
I needed that, how much I missed that. And it
was COVID safe and you know, we all practice a
safe distance and the masking and all that good stuff.
And uh, I met great people. They're great people, the
people who attended to the speakers, And in fact, it
(03:47):
leads right into a couple of things on this program today.
One being the guest today is from that conference and
her name is Katie Grubowski, and uh, I have to
tell you connecting with her and the other speakers were fabulous.
(04:07):
By the way, I mean, I had a great time,
learned a lot from every single person. And yeah, but
also I always say I don't I don't peek at
the emails when I get them. I really don't. But
sometimes they're just so short, and I'm like, I'm okay,
I reading this here, Oh well, hey, and randomly picked
(04:28):
an email and lo and behold it fits right in
to the conversation with what I wanted to address in
this first segment before we get to Katie. So, um, yeah,
I'm just gonna I'm gonna hop right on over and
I'm going to read that to you right now so
you can see what I mean. It starts off dear hiding.
(04:51):
I am a lifetime abductee, black eyed teens, doublegangers, angels,
aliens and evil crap since I was two years old,
now sixty six, and finally I'm over PTSD and looking
to help others fight these agents from hades. He didn't
(05:13):
say hades, but I would love to talk for a
while and see if we see eye to eye and
ask what do you do to fight and teach others
to do that. Thanks Doug, short and sweet, you know,
short and sweet. So I saw that, and I was like, Oh,
(05:34):
that's just so perfect. So many people, so many people
are experiencing a multitude of things, from something that might
seem other dimensional, too solid, to cryptid like stuff too
black eyed teens. I mean, gosh, Doug, I wish he
(05:55):
wrote about that, because I really want to learn and
hear more about the black eyed children because those things
really freaked me out. But doublegangers would love to hear
about that more too. I've experienced that, and uh yeah,
but listen to what he's saying here. He's calling this
stuff evil. So a lot of people, when they experience
(06:16):
something alien, especially over time, there's a shift. There's a
shift that happens people. People shift in their thinking on
what was thought to be traumatic. Post traumatic stress disorder
often comes from alien abductions, and they go to seek
help and then lo and behold, it's been aliens this
(06:38):
whole time and had no idea. And then I've watched
this over the years of people shift, and like, I
guess it's not so bad. I've gotten used to the
surgeries and and then interrupting my sleep and taking my
children to the window and and doing all these different things.
And but this person here has come out saying it's
evil and uh, I like to say, there's definitely a
(07:00):
conflict in alien contact where people are experiencing more than
one thing. But some of these people straight up abductions
experiments the same stuff that's going on for I don't
know how long, and but the person's perspective is has changed.
And I'm not going to knock a person for what
(07:21):
they believe to be true for themselves, because who am I? UM,
but I just like to put that thought out there
and what I learned to from uh encounters with things
that I have also had, uh, not of the alien
abduction kind, but beings that say beware, because some of
these beings can shape shift to make themselves look at
(07:43):
like other beings, and you think, oh, there's are the
good guys I had a conversation with they didn't do
an experiments on me, and then all of a sudden, Oha,
these guys I thought were nice experiments on me? Or
or they get convinced to say, you agree to this
in the past life, or they get a memory even
you agreed to have this happening to you, so they
(08:04):
become more um, I don't know, appliable to what's going on,
or they're taught something and so they get you know,
they're they're okay with what's happening, but again not trying
to knock people for what they believe to be true
for themselves. For myself, UM, I don't if somebody's coming
over and abusing me, I would ask them to leave,
(08:26):
and I wouldn't try to get used to it, you know.
But and it's like, oh, but did I get used
to the abuse? And then it seemed like I agreed.
I don't know, you know, what's going on here? I
see the shift. I don't understand it. Um. But then
some of these people become more spiritual, more spiritually inclined,
more aware about the environment. And these all sound like
(08:47):
wonderful things. But a lot of people are becoming more
spiritual these days, a lot of people are more aware. Um.
But then there's people who also step away from spirituality
or they'll just stick to the spiritual uh topic as
as that not religious. I'm spiritual. It's like, okay, I
get it, um, but you know what, what is this? Why?
(09:07):
Why is this? You know? Are these beings encouraging this?
Is that? Okay? The beings that I had contact with said,
the beings that do abductions do try to put the
thought of preserve the planet um environmentally, and the more
positive beings say, but that's not the most important thing
(09:31):
that should be focused on. Putting all that energy into
that is not the most important thing. And I'm like,
I'll confuse, what do you mean? It's like the most
important thing are tending to souls, saving the souls. The
Earth recycles, that's what it does. It will recycle, it
will repair itself. But focusing on the souls, that's what's important.
(09:52):
So diverting attention from that is not a good thing.
That's what I was told. UM just sharing a lot
of people think otherwise because environmental things are are positive,
you know, and I get that, and I feel that
is too. I think we should definitely do our best
to keep this planet in decent shape for ourselves in
(10:13):
the next generation. So, but the conflict and alien contact,
like we're taking the words of beings that are doing
things that I wouldn't volunteer for surgery, I wouldn't volunteer
to have hybrid children. I wouldn't volunteer. I mean, in
my my today mind, I would hope I wouldn't volunteer
or past life mind you know. Um. Yeah, So that's
(10:36):
that's where I come from on it. But there are
people and a lot of people are like what they
once thought was negative, they don't anymore. And I'm like, okay,
why we should understand this. But these things, these conversations,
what I'm getting at, I got I got a little sidetrack.
But what I'm getting at is we should have these
(10:56):
conversations and discuss it with each other. And we have
these conclusions independently oftentimes because we we are just kind
of connecting online resuming sometimes a lot of us do
not get out to meetings and actually, you know, grab
a coffee and have a conversation. And it's a whole
different thing when you feel you could totally trust the
(11:17):
person in front of you and and that's that's special,
and that's what's missing these days. And I had a
UFO paranormal discussion group called u FO to you dot com.
It's a number two and letter you um dot com.
And Wow, I learned a lot. I grew and I
saw people, I connected with them, I got to know
(11:37):
them for years, and I understood to degree some of
the shift. I got to ask the people use up
with a gun on your pillow wire. Are you okay
with the aliens now? You know? So I gotta have
these conversations and I think we need to have that
connection again. And uh it, Doug, you're asking how can
you help teach people to fight and teach others to
(11:59):
do that. It's getting out and connecting with the people.
It's having a meeting, getting on one of these apps
where you can have a meet up or um, you know,
just connect. Absolutely, it is a brilliant thing. And I
got that opportunity to do that at this recent UFO
(12:19):
festival in Oregon and it was so needed and having
that chance, I wish others did too. And yes, we're
in a COVID world. We're going to have to work
on working around these things so we could all stay safe.
But wow, I cannot wait for people to learn to
reach out again. I think we're going to have a
(12:41):
resurgence of that because we have been locked down for
so long. And I think we're going to find more
value in having the groups come back to life. Even
I am thinking of bringing back mine. So and uh,
my guest today is actually from that conference, and I
think you're going to really enjoy her. It is boy,
to be Katie Grabowski and Wow, are you in for
(13:03):
a treat. We're talking connections to something like skid Walker Branch.
Oh yeah, you guys, you are listening to Dark Becomes
Light with me Heidi Hollis on the I Heart Radio
and Coast to Coast a M Paranormal podcast network Teck
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to Coast AM dot com. That's Coast to Coast AM
dot com. Welcome back. You are listening to dark It
(14:32):
comes Light with me Heidi Hollis on the I Heart
Radio at Coast to Coast AM par Normal podcast Network.
As promised, I have a fabulous guest. I have Katie Krabowski,
who is the Colorado Moufon State Director and serves on
the Colorado Board of Directors. She is a Star investigator
(14:54):
from Mufon and is Team lead administrator for Moufon's MARS Team,
which has Moufon's archive research reporting system. She also conducts
her own independent investigations and research outside a Moufon and
founded the Colorado UFO Paranormal Research Group to further explore
(15:14):
these topics and to share her discoveries with others. Katie
spends a lot of her time traveling to archives for
research and to conduct interviews. She is the author of
Letters of Light and Love, four Decades of UFO Encounters,
experiences and sightings shared with ufologists are Leo Sprinkle, PhD.
(15:38):
She is currently writing her second book, High Strangeness on
a Colorado Ranch and She holds a Bachelor of Science
in Visual Communications and owned her own graphic design studio
Design Junkie, and is the mother of five. I'm telling you,
Katie is truly a tremendous force to be reckoned with
(15:59):
and is absolutely necessary and needed to help further research today.
So everybody, i'd love to welcome Katie Grabowski. How are
you doing there, Katie. I'm doing great. I am soaking
up the gorgeous Colorado sun. It's a beautiful day here today,
preparing and enjoying it before winner hits us. Well, that
(16:21):
is wonderful, lucky you. We had a conversation just prior.
I'm not even going to talk about it, um, but
you know I have to say, Katie, you know I
had the wonderful opportunity to connect with you. We're at
the UFO fest up there in uh McMinnville, Oregon, and
(16:43):
uh I am really impressed, first of all with your background.
Second of all, with your ginormous personality. You know, a
lot of move on people get totally pegged for being
all just I don't know, it's not it's not an uptightness,
but you is are more scientifically based, but you are
ultimately human, and I was very appreciative to get to
(17:06):
know that very human side of you. You have a
spark that I think is uh really really welcoming to
a lot of people. Thank you having that's so funny.
I always like to say, I kind of live in
the center of the bridge, you know, I have that
scientific side, and I appreciate moupon and move on. You know,
we can have fun too, so but yeah, I I like,
(17:30):
you know, yeah, they have some fun with some things,
or what's the point. I mean, you know, we live
one life, and I just think it's a great way
to connect with people and and hear people's experiences and
things that it's vitally important to what we do in
the field. And I like also the bridging of the
UFO world and the paranormal world, because um, you know,
if my experience is I just can't I can't disconnect
(17:53):
it to I feel they're very much connected and the
answer is ultimately going to be very complex, very true,
and and there's science to kind of back that as well.
That there's that bridge between the two, the paranormal and uthology.
That's right, and I love that. I mean, you know,
as far as you know the power of our consciousness
(18:15):
and our mind. And I mean I think that's finally
being taking more seriously and being studied more, you know,
academically in universities and that so, UM, I think that's
an exciting, exciting thing, truly. So my goodness, I have
to ask, uh so being the state director for Colorado's
(18:36):
bluefn UM, I mean, how on earth and why on earth?
Why did you get involved in these things? Well? Um,
I really got involved in um. You know, like a
lot of people. You know, people go through life and
they experience things they don't quite understand. And that happened
(18:57):
to me from a very young age. I mean, and
you know, we had some experiences when I was really young,
kind of family legends both in Wisconsin and Illinois and
then in this from nineteen seventy eight, I spent a
handful of times out on this very strange ranch on
Melburt County, Colorado. It was known in UFO folklore through
(19:18):
the Apple Reports as a clear View Ranch or the
Rocky Mountain Ranch. Um. It is in Elbert County and
it's very much like the Skinwalker Ranch in Utah. So
those sat you know, I had these memories my sister
and I have these things happening. We were threatened and
more and really never to talk to anybody about it,
so I did never even knew it was reported or
investigated or anything. And um, in twelve I started watching
(19:42):
Actually before that, it was it was earlier than that,
I started watching Ghost Hunters and love that show and
all the paranormal staff. And I was watching a documentary
and they had mentioned mouf On or the Mutual UFO network,
and I had my degree in graphic design. I thought, oh,
maybe I can be at a field invest gator kind
of figure out what the heck all that was that
happened in my earlier years, and maybe I can sketch
(20:06):
like E. T. S or beans and craft, which I've
never really done, but that was sort of my intention
to begin with. And anyway, um, and you know, it's
just been kind of rabbit hole you jump into. As
many people know, the more you investigate, the more you learned,
the more questions you have, and that's you know, that's
where I'm at. Well, that makes sense to me that
you have that background and graphic design, because the presentation
(20:29):
you put on was extremely colorful and very lively. Thank
you a lot of people appreciated that and wanted to
get up out of their seats quite literally, for many reasons.
I appreciate that things. Oh it's great. So so it's
fascinating to me. Like I, I think a lot of
(20:49):
people that are involved in these uh these types of
topics are familiar with the skin Walker ranch and some
of the very strange happenings. But to have ex bury
it something like that yourself, and and to hear your story, UM,
I think the most disturbing part was the threat that
you got and it wasn't an earthly threat. Are you
(21:12):
able to go into that a little bit? Yeah? I
sure can, UM, And I'll tell you it's been you know,
you know, the move on side of me loves archives
and research, and UM, I spent you know, eight years
just doing that and not really sharing my story publicly,
you know, on any media platforms. UM. And I'm really
(21:35):
glad I'm starting to do that now because the people
that are coming out or that I'm um learning about
that have similar experiences is fascinating. In one such person
I just learned about UM had the same disembodied voice.
So what had happened? It was a weekend my sister
and I were out on the ranch for the boys
(21:56):
that we knew. We knew the three sons. His mom
had a birthday, so the adults were playing a board game.
My my sister, and I and the three sons were
in the room hanging out, and all of a sudden,
there's a strange, loud, humming noise that would happen out
there on the ranch property and sometimes would get so
loud you can't even hear yourself talk over it. And
(22:17):
then all of a sudden, the power goes out in
the house. The brightest light you've ever seen, like the whitest,
brightest light through the windows, and we're all just freaking
out what's going on. And at that moment, this disembodied
electrical voice, remember there's no power in the house at
this point, and in a nutshell, basically says, we've allowed
you to remain. Your friends will be warned not to
(22:40):
talk about us. Um you know, so the actual whole
sentences in the briefing document that I read, but in
a nutshell basically said, your friends will be we're not
to talk about us, and UM, my mom and the
adults in our lives at the time, I'm nine to twelve,
years old. I'm just a little girl, and they're like, Katie,
you know, don't you say anything to anybody about this. Um,
(23:01):
we don't know what will happen if you do. And
so you know, you learned to be quiet and shut
up really fast. Well, yeah, so some of the strange happenings. Uh,
tell us a little bit more detail about what exactly
you experience, Like what was the first thing that happened?
The first thing I remember happening is you know, just
like what we were talking about earlier. It was a spring,
(23:25):
sunny day in Colorado, but yet there was this wet,
heavy snow on the ground. Um. You know, springtimes and
Colorado are like that. We can get a really big
snow and then the sum will come out and the
weather is nice. Um. And so my sister and I
were out there just tossing the frisbee and we look
down and we just happened to notice that the dirt
under our feet is not only no snow on it,
(23:46):
but it was completely dry and nothing grew in it.
And we're like, this is really strange. And it's one
of those again we're young. It's like that big memory,
but we both remember it very well. It was just
so unusual, and the the whole ranch just had this
eeriness about it. Just being on the property, you just
felt different, you felt watched. It was strange. And what
(24:07):
was cool is M. John Schusler, after he knew of
my connection to the ranch, he gave me the original
briefing document and investigation papers along with Dr Leo Sprinkle.
When I went to go get the research from him,
his archives and Laramie wyoming Um, they actually had that
that snowless dry circle. They investigated that and they said
(24:29):
it was thirty five ft in diameter. So it was
cool to have that confirmation like, there it is, that's
that circle. But that was the very first thing my
sister and I remember. That is amazing. I mean it's
quite physical. It's one of those things that it helps
to verify and justify in your mind, and then to
to have that absolutely verified later, I mean, I wish
(24:52):
I had something like that. Haven't grown up and some
of the strange circumstances personally, so it's that's uh, that's amazing. Yeah,
the confirm ations of our our memories have been just like,
oh my gosh, it's so rewarding to have that, you know,
and and also in that report when it talked about
that thirty five ft in diame and or diameter circle,
it talked about the snow on the outside of it,
(25:13):
and there were drops of blood. So there were even
more details in it. And at the time out there
in Nolburg County from seventy to seventy eight, cattle mutilation
was extremely high. That's where linnimal and how got her
start out there as an investigative journalist researching all these
mutilations out there. And it just wasn't cattle, it was horse,
it was cow, was sheep, even dog, um and so.
(25:35):
And you know when I went out to investigate the
sheriff out there at the time, Bill Wall, the under sheriff,
his um wife now widow, Jean, and his youngest son
live out in Florida. We flew out there to interview them,
and um, they were saying these things were almost a
cream daily. That's how many of these things they were. Wow,
that's amazing. Well, you know, I want to get into, uh,
(25:56):
some of the details involved in your book and other experiences.
After the break, we'll explore that you guys are listening
to Dark Becomes Light with me. Heidi Hollis on the
I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Stick around, we'll be right back. Hey, folks. It's easier
(26:18):
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all the info right there. That's Coast to Coast a
M dot com Coast to Coast a L dot com. Hey,
it's George and Ori, and thank you for listening to
the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast a M
Paranormal Podcast Network. Here we go with more Dark Becomes
Light with Heidi Hollis. Welcome back. You are listening to
(27:15):
Dark Becomes Light with me, Heidi Hollis on the I
Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Joining me is Katie Rebel skichi Is. Wow, she's really
got quite the story, and uh, why had a few
similarities between the famous skin Walker Ranch and uh, you're
(27:37):
telling us a little bit about some of those odd
experiences that you had, and I wanted to hear more
about that and what you feel skin Walker Ranch has
in common with where you grew up. Yeah, I mean,
you know, the commonalities between the skin Walker Ranch and
the Colorado Ranch are just astounding. I mean, from the
(27:58):
cattle mutilations, the humming noises, the Native American connections, strange
um circles on the ground, the humming noises, the crypto creatures,
the sasquatch creature, I mean, on and on the list.
You know, these strange disappearing boxes. Um. But one of
my um main objectives starting out and researching this property
(28:18):
in the area because I thought at first it was
just UM at that particular ranch. Come to find out,
the activity was really high in the whole entire county.
There's several small towns in Obert County, Colorado, and so
the activity was going on. It wasn't just isolated to
the one property. But what was really fascinating to me,
and the question I really always had was how much
(28:41):
of this was unknown phenomenon possible UFOs, UM and beings,
and how much of it was our own military and
government out there because we had these strange h menacing
helicopters UM that were out there, and you know, pulling
up newspaper articles from back in the day, these helicopters
were actually chasing people, menacing people, and we're talking young kids,
(29:04):
Why would you do that? You know? What were these
helicopters doing out there at the time? UM? There were
to a SEVENTI s that in the report that I received,
UM said that they crashed in pursuit of a UFO.
And it was so interesting because in Laughlin at a
UFO conference, Richard Doughty was there speaking and I know,
I know, you know, disinformation. He's kind of come out
(29:27):
forward lately and said, look, man, I was just doing
my job, but I thought it would be interesting to
just ask him if he knew of the property, which
he said that he did. He didn't say he was
out there personally, but he was aware of it. Which
is really interesting to me that we have people in
our military that we know we're out there. We know
Norad was aware of what was going on, and we
know Camp Carson and the Air Force academy. They're all
(29:50):
in Colorado Springs, and where this property sits Um wasn't
too far from the lands that they owned. So my
question had always been what were they doing out there?
Were they out there causing activity or were they out
there trying to investigate activity? And what I've come to
believe now is that it's a combination of both. I
(30:10):
think both things were happening, and I find I'm still
that's what drives me to keep digging because it's been
so long now, you know, over four decades. Certainly some
of these helicopter pilots and military people, people that were
connected to the activity, I would feel like, okay, it's
okay to talk about what what was happening out there, Like,
you know, time to come clean, guys, you know, guys
(30:31):
and gals, time to complain. So, I mean, there was
just so much happening out there, but at the same time,
through my interviews, so many things that you can't explain
away just by military and cover ups. I mean, these
cryptic creatures, the sasquatch creatures out there, some of the mutilations.
Although I know, you know, Christopher O'Brien and czuch Sukowski
(30:52):
have have done decades of research on this topic. I
don't claim to be the expert here. I know that
some of them have very earthly explanations, but there are
a handful that are really high strange strangeness that they're like, okay,
that we don't have an answer to that, that that
can't be explained away so easily. And then of course
there's these orange flying orbs that the sheriff's were witnessing
(31:15):
and they would fly off the property do ninety degree
right angle angle terms. Um, some of these experiences by
the sheriff and the undershriff, These disappearing boxes and trees
that would appear to go just into the ground, just
completely disappear. I mean, what is that all about? So,
and then the paranormal things that we're going on, you know,
the ghosts and so there's a lot to these properties
(31:40):
that is amazing. Do you feel there's an interdimensional element
that's going on? Um? I do? I believe that. It
just seems like one of the only logical explanations to me.
And you know, and in talking about this and coming
forward and sharing this information, I've learned of other places.
You know. Now we have the blind Frog Ranch, and
(32:00):
we have the meadows Um which is down south with
Trey Hudson, and we have Marley Woods in Missouri. And
I learned through the move On Mars project, which the
move On Mars Project is all of the pre computerized
cases that move On would get, they would be you know,
on paper, and I had a team of fifteen people
(32:21):
that would go through and redact all the private information
out of these reports. So you know, we have access
to read and look at all these pre computer reports
from move On. And in there was the Ohio Pile,
Pennsylvania creature case, which had numerous witnesses the humming noises,
the circles on the ground, the cattle mutilations, these bigfoot
creatures and they claim they like shot at these things
(32:43):
and it just these bigfoot would disappear in a flash
of light. So there's another one. So I count that
in there. And something that is really intriguing to me
is is to try and find like, what is it
about these places that either are allowing us to see
the phenomenon more easily, or is allowing these things to
(33:05):
interact with the environment. Um you know, like portals or
or or gates or something that are opening here and
something that I found. If you go to the UM
United States Geological Magneticism Map, you'll find that most of
these are all of these locations are paying the charts
is being highly magnetic areas. So I find that interesting.
(33:27):
I think there's something important there. And I'm hoping, I'm
hopeful that we're all going to start working together to
look at some of these commonalities at these locations, look
at what we have in common versus the differences when
it comes to these cross research type situations. And and
I believe that there's always that situation if you look
and listen longer to the people that are telling you,
(33:51):
if they have constant activity in one arena, it seems
like they're also susceptible to experiencing another. UM. And I
remember you also mentioned having shadow people encounters coming through.
That's right, That's another one of my big questions, UM,
you know, because I have experienced things. And it really
(34:14):
got that night that I talked about with the disembodied
voice coming out of every orpus of the house that evening.
You know, we left the ranch property and we lived
forty five you know, minutes away from that property. We
lived in Englewood, Colorado at the time, and I got home,
made it through the front door, was down on the ground.
I went paralyzed, and my older sister, my mom or
(34:36):
you know, Katie, what did you eat? I'm like trying
to say peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and I couldn't.
And that must have lasted. It seemed like five or
ten minutes or something, and then I, you know, came
to got up in my bed and had my first
major episode of a migraine headache with the tunnel vision
of those who suffered migraines know what I'm talking about.
And I suffered those for years. UM and lucid vivid
(34:57):
dreams and the shadow people in room oftentimes by three.
It was never one, it was either two or three. Um.
I never slept alone after that. Always felt like I
was being watched, just a host of other things. And
the more people you talked to about these things and
you're like, oh, wow, they experienced that stuff too. And
another thing I'd like to mention, even with Project Blue Book,
(35:19):
you know, they were really just focused on the nuts
and bolts craft, the propulsion, the configuration of lighting, didn't
make a sound, you know, those kind of things. They
never really even asked about the paranormal side of things. So,
you know, going through all the newspaper articles from the
way back in the day, pulling names and trying to
contact some of these folks. It's a great thing to say.
(35:42):
And now I know you had cattle mutilations, because most
of the articles are written about the cattle mutilations and
what they thought was going on at the time, whether
they're you know, colts doing this or you know, their
theories on what was happening. Um, But they didn't ask
them about the paranormal side of things, you know, or
their activities or strange humming sounds or any of these
(36:03):
other you know, crypto creatures or anything. So I think
it's important that we go back and revisit some of
these investigations because now we have more questions to ask,
more connections to make. Yeah, definitely, that is just it
just blows my mind just when we think we have
some kind of answer or understanding of anything going on,
(36:25):
when it comes to these supernatural type of events. We
I feel like with each case, you have to start
from ground zero and to try to trace the connections
and who was where and what was going on at
the time. I mean, did you ever find any kind
of connecting source to why some of the things happened
(36:46):
as they did for you? Um? Well, I think that's
a huge problem in this field. Um you know, reinventing
the wheel, having to go back, you know, that was
fascinating to me. Learning how I first found out about this,
that this was ever reported in the first place, were investigated,
um Is. I bought a book titled Hunt for the
(37:09):
skin Walker by George Knapp and Colm Kelly and her PhD.
And I didn't know anything about the skin Walker Ranch
at the time, and you know, they didn't have a
show on on the History Channel or anything. I just
knew it was about a ranch and some strange stuff.
So I bought the book and I get to other
hot Spots the chapter of the Hot Spots, and they
started talking about the ranch in Colorado, and I knew
(37:31):
it was the ranch I had spent time on as
a young girl. And I called my sister right away
and my mom right away. And you're not going to
believe this, but in that book, um they mentioned Dr
Leo Sprinkle, PhD, John Dr PhD, and Peter Van Arsdale,
PhD were all out there on the ranch along with
Clarissa Burnhout, who was a psychic medium, which I found fascinating.
(37:52):
I got to interview her as well. Um, but to
learn that that place was actually being investigated with shocking
and unbelievable. But more importantly, when I went to go
research it, I got lost in all these letters written
to Dr Sprinkle, and it was very apparent to me
that we're just always reinventing the wheel. There's thousands of
(38:14):
thousands of books on the topic, both paranormal and UFOs.
There's so many unbelievable researchers and scientists and people who
have been trying to find the answers to these things
in these connections for decades and decades, and it makes
you humble really fast, and it makes you think, wow,
just when we think we're finding some sort of parallel
(38:36):
or connection with you know, like for example, oh, it
must be like a frequency of thing or a magnetic thing,
or this thing or that thing, they've already thought about that,
they've already explored that. And I was like, well crude,
you know, so it just um, you know, you could
spend a lifetime trying to find one little piece of
this big puzzle, you know, and it's difficult. It's really difficult, truly. Well,
(38:57):
I'm going to get into details about this book that
you pulled together, um and that was connected to Dr
Leo Sprinkle. It sounds really fascinating. So you guys, you're
listening to Dark Becomes Light with me Heidi Hollis on
the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal
Podcast Network. We'll be right back. The Internet is an
(39:28):
extraordinary resource that links our children to a world of information, experiences,
and ideas. It can also expose them to risk. Teach
your children the basic safety rules of the virtual world.
Our children are everything. Do everything for them. You're listening
(39:58):
to the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM
Paranormal Podcast Network, heard on the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you find your favorite shows. Welcome back.
(40:25):
You are listening to Dark That Comes Light with me
Heidi Hollis on the I Heart Radio and Coast to
Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. And I have Katie Powski
and wow, you guys, you have never heard such a story.
I am really really digging it. And uh, I haven't
had anybody come on the show that says, you know,
(40:48):
I really got involved and looking into these topics because
I read my story in a book already. What I
know was it was quite shocking for me as well,
but also just like validation, like oh my gosh, my sister,
we're like, we're not crazy. Oh my gosh, this happened,
you know, because you know, yeah, I'll never ever forget
(41:11):
that night. And of course Dr Leo Sprinkle, who is
just a gem and a pioneer in the field for
experience or and a hypnotherapist and a psychologist, how to
lary Me Wyoming. He's old school. He didn't do, you know,
emails or anything. So I had to handwrite him a
letter and I'll never forget walking to my mailbox and
getting that letter back from him going yes, and he
(41:32):
had the last name of the family and the local
and I'm like, oh, I knew it. Oh my gosh,
that is an unforgettable day. And you know, next week
it's a two and a half hour drive to me
for me to alary Me. So I made that drive
met with Leo and he is the most gracious time
of his time, of his spirit in his time, like
he We sat on the couch and talked for two
(41:53):
hours in his office. This is the sweetest man you
can ever want to know. I actually went last week
in it at him. Um. You know, he's ninety one,
but now he's hanging in there. Um. But he's just
a great guy. So what ended up happening is I
went to the archives, which is open for anybody. You
can go to the Heritage Center and Larry and he
(42:15):
has eighty four boxes of his lifetime of work there.
And I went to pull the file on the ranch
which is there, but I got lost. I pulled every
file out of every box. I got lost in people's
letters that had written to him over the decades. And
we're talking from experiencers, from pH d s, from other
people in the field. They're all filed in there, and
(42:39):
they're fascinating. And I just, you know, made a dozen
trips back and forth, and I would take photographs of
hundreds of these letters. Then i'd go home, I'd organize
them all into files, you know, box thirty three, and
then I'd go through and I'd read them all. I
kind of pulled all the juicy parts out of the letters,
like I felt if I found them interesting, other people
(43:01):
would find them interesting. And it came to me in
a dream. You need to put these in a book.
So the book is Letters of Love and Life for
decades of UFO encounters, experiences, and sightings shared with uphologists
are Leo Sprinkle, PhD. There's several different chapters in the
book on hypnosis, something a lot of people wrote about.
Where was this a dream or was this some memory abductions?
(43:25):
Channeling the e T S letters from children, um um.
Dr Sprinkle kept all his response letters, so every chapter
begins with a quote that relates to the chapter. And
that's cool because you can kind of see how his
process of thought changed through the decades. So it was
just this huge labor of love. And like I said,
(43:46):
it made me so humble to read the work of
so many other pioneers in the field, and it kind
of you know, it was it was just a great experience.
It was a really great experience. I was so happy
to honor him in this way, um. And along the way,
I learned a lot of cool things, you know, from
different people in different letters, But were some of the
(44:07):
more interesting experiences that you read one one that really
surprised me. Um. I would hope most of your listeners
would be familiar with the nineteen seventy five Travis Walton
abduction case out of Snowflake Arizona. So I come across
a letter in box twenty, folder thirty one from a
gentleman that lives in Illinois and the letters dated UM
(44:29):
March thirteenth, nineteen eighty one. And he's he says, I'm
a senior citizen now and not educated to your level.
I have been a country preacher for many years now. UM.
And he goes on to talk about it was a
year between nineteen thirty one and nineteen thirty four, UM
our bus had run through a small place that I
(44:52):
believe to be Snowflake Arizona. And he goes on to
talk about an abduction experience he had with a blue light. UH.
Pretty similar description of this. I mean. So I'm like, wow,
this is an earlier Snowflake Arizona incident. UM from a
preacher that talks about that. UM, that's interesting. There's also
(45:13):
some really cool information I found on fe Warren Air
Force Base. It was a multi witness UM sighting out
there in Cheyenne, Wyoming, multiple multiple military witnesses, nuclear shutdowns
and you name it. So that was fascinating. There's just
so many things, um and not only from the United States,
(45:34):
but you know, stories from Brazil and all around the world,
So you know, amazing. Did did you get a sense
of what beings people were having the most interactions with
where they all graze or you know, that's really a
great question. And something that also fascinates me about this
topic is it seems to me, reading through the letters
(45:58):
and reading the books and all the research that the
phenomenon has, it seems to somewhat ship like for me.
My my favorite decade to read about in research, of course,
is in nineteen seventies, you know, because of my experiences
out on the ranch property, and it's fascinating to read
about these because there were like more accounts of actual
(46:21):
landed craft or beans in these suits, silver suits, blue suits,
and of course you don't know how much of that
is popular media, you know. In nineteen seventy seven was
Close Encounters of the Third kind, which I had to
laugh because it just occurred to me. I'm like, wow,
I don't think everybody looked at that as like a
documentary films, and I'm like, it's like your life, I'm
(46:44):
living that, I'm living that craft anyway, Sorry, for the language.
But so I thought that was funny. But you know,
so you know, you hear these encounters of you know,
beings working on craft, and of course there were the
humanoid types and the grays and the and then the
cases that come into move On now seem to be
(47:05):
more lights in this guy. And if there is an
encounter case, it's more personal, like in my bedroom kind
of thing. You know, the beings came to me, not
like by at landed craft in a field, but in
my room. So it's sort of changed in that way.
I find that really interesting. Well, I have the different
things that occurred during abductions. Has that altered at all
(47:28):
over the years, you know, again reading that and again
a lot of this from just reading the letters and
research from Dr Leo Sprinkle because he worked with experiencers
and abductees for so long, um, and it seems to
me those types of commonalities, um haven't changed all that
much when it comes to you know, you know, the
(47:49):
hybrid program or being put on a table and you
know something a needle stuck in your navel or these
that seems to remain fairly consistent even as early as
like the sixties seventies, eighties nineties, those things tend to
be fairly consistent through all the decades. Uh and uh,
I know out there when we were at your focus,
(48:10):
you know, Ray Hernandez just in his team are doing
research on that as well, looking you know, talking to
experiences from the around the world and trying to find
those connections as well. And um, yeah, so that hasn't
changed so much. Yeah, it seems the things that have changed.
I've been involved in it for a while myself, and
and the the perspective of those who were taken have
(48:35):
changed from horror two. I think I was chosen to
I guess I'm okay with this. And it was always
puzzling to me that part, because it was PTSD that
got them to realize they were experiencing what they were
And I honestly believe there's a conflict in alien contact
that they may be having positive experience with different beings
(48:58):
that might look similar and ones that are doing things
like I don't know anybody that would volunteer for surgery,
that's all I'm gonna say, right, No, you know, I
had that same kind of thing, and you know, on
the ranch property, I did not see any et beans
that I consciously remember seeing on the ranch. But it
was reported that there were two types of beans out
(49:19):
on that property, and in fact they it says they
were in conflict with one another. One was this very
mechanical looking being with tubes and wrinkles around the mouth,
wrinkles on the forehead, really heavy brow, not the huge,
huge almond eyes, but bigger than our eyes. It was
fascinating about that. Those sketches were in Dr Leo's files
and I put them in my back pocket. I didn't
(49:41):
put them anywhere. I didn't share them with anybody because
I wanted to find something that looks similar and ling
the whole. You know. A year and a half two
years later, we have a guest speaker, Shawn bar talk
talk about his book Flashbacks was about and it was
about a property he had in Castle Rock, Colorado in
the early seventies. All sorts of very similar, high strange activity,
and up comes these drawings and you couldn't match these
(50:04):
two beans any closer actually did a morph of the two,
and I was like, what are the chances of that?
That closed my mind. But that mechanical being, but there
was also these humanoid like Nordic being beans and it
was like they were in conflict, and Heidi, I really
wrestle with that too. Like for me, I was terrified,
you know, nightmares, never slept alone. I mean, it was
(50:26):
a scary time for me. I felt watched. I would
run up to the nearest house. Um. You know, it
went through that PTSD stuff, all of it. Um. But now,
just like so many experiences, now, I feel like I'm
kind of driven and it's you know, more of a
positive kind of thing in my life. UM, certainly don't
(50:47):
feel chosen in any kind of way. And people asked
me do you think you were abducted? And I, you know,
like I said, I don't know the answer to that.
Dr Sprinkle put me under hypnosis and I was kind
of a little shock. Boy came out back. Now, so
I don't know, I don't know, um, but I wrestle
with that kind of How did that bad experience, that
(51:10):
really frightening thing when I was a kid where you
felt isolated and alone turn into something that I'm so
driven about now. I think, yeah, it's really an interesting,
interesting thing, that's wonderful. I just hope I'm not being
tricked right well, I mean, ay, but you might be
inspired by an opposing force, another type of being for
all you know. But I mean, it's a puzzle. How
(51:32):
can people get a hold of you if they want
to reach out? Um, I have a website. It's Katie
Grubovski K A T I E G R I b
as in boy O s k I dot com. Katie
Grubovski dot com. Thank you so much, Katie Gruvovski. I
really want to thank you for coming out on the
(51:52):
show today. This was really fascinating. Yeah, thank you so
much for having mean. I can't wait to hang out again.
We had a blast. It will happen, It will happen,
all right, everybody, we have come to the bottom of
another fabulous program. Remember to go to my main website,
Shadow Folks for Heidi Hollis dot com and tell me
(52:13):
what's going on in your lives. What is it at
your experience and what are your thoughts? What's your research?
And I mean A to Z anything and everything you
have been listening to Dark becomes light with me, Heidi
Hollis on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast
am Paranormal Podcast Network. We'll see you next time. Stay
(52:33):
say everybody, Well, if you like this edition of Dark
Becomes Light. Wait till you hear the next one. You've
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(52:54):
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(00:27):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware of the thoughts
and opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and
opinions only and do not reflect those of I Heart Media,
I Heart Radio, Coast to Coast AM, employees of premier networks,
or their sponsors and associates. We would like to encourage
you to do your own research and discover the subject
(00:50):
matter for yourself. You are listening to Dark Becomes Light
with Me Heidi Hollis on the I Heart Radio and
(01:11):
Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast Network. Welcome to my show.
Remember each week this is the place that you go
to when you want to learn about what is going
on out there in the world. When it comes to
anything and everything out of the ordinary. I don't care
if it's Big Bood, moth Man, or shadow people or
(01:34):
near death experiences, or if you're having truly weird waking dreams,
out of body experiences. I mean, how else are we
going to get to know what's going on out there
in the world unless we connect, unless we tell somebody,
And uh, well, I'm kind of broadcasting it, um, but yeah,
(01:54):
this is the place. So go to my main website,
which is shadow Folks dot com or Heidi Hollis dot
com and write me, tell me what's going on. You're
always welcome to come on this program to share, But
I am telling you, nine times out of ten, everybody
would prefer to send me an email. And I don't
mind because the details and the form of communicating sometimes
(02:17):
it's easier for people and their nerves don't get the
better of them where they're trying to think of what
best to say next. So the longer the email, the better.
I don't mind one bit. And I'm telling you I
have learned something and it's something I've kind of realized
for a long time, Like I'm I'm part of the
old school. I guess you could say, where we had
(02:38):
the UFO meetings and got to meet people face to face,
and but it's not that old school isn't because there's
a lot of people that still do that, but in
the COVID world it makes it a lot more difficult.
And I get it, um, but there's something that's missing
when it comes to this COVID world or the Internet world,
where we're just zooming and we google and we find
(03:02):
a forum and we get some information and it's like, okay,
I shared, I think, but there's something to be said
about physically connecting with people, getting out and meeting people.
And I'm bringing this up for a reason because, my goodness,
I had a blast. More recently haven't gone to a
(03:25):
UFO festival, and wow, I didn't know how much I
I needed that, how much I missed that. And it
was COVID safe and you know, we all practice a
safe distance and the masking and all that good stuff.
And uh, I met great people. They're great people, the
people who attended to the speakers, And in fact, it
(03:47):
leads right into a couple of things on this program today.
One being the guest today is from that conference and
her name is Katie Grubowski, and uh, I have to
tell you connecting with her and the other speakers were fabulous.
(04:07):
By the way, I mean, I had a great time,
learned a lot from every single person. And yeah, but
also I always say I don't I don't peek at
the emails when I get them. I really don't. But
sometimes they're just so short, and I'm like, I'm okay,
I reading this here, Oh well, hey, and randomly picked
(04:28):
an email and lo and behold it fits right in
to the conversation with what I wanted to address in
this first segment before we get to Katie. So, um, yeah,
I'm just gonna I'm gonna hop right on over and
I'm going to read that to you right now so
you can see what I mean. It starts off dear hiding.
(04:51):
I am a lifetime abductee, black eyed teens, doublegangers, angels,
aliens and evil crap since I was two years old,
now sixty six, and finally I'm over PTSD and looking
to help others fight these agents from hades. He didn't
(05:13):
say hades, but I would love to talk for a
while and see if we see eye to eye and
ask what do you do to fight and teach others
to do that. Thanks Doug, short and sweet, you know,
short and sweet. So I saw that, and I was like, Oh,
(05:34):
that's just so perfect. So many people, so many people
are experiencing a multitude of things, from something that might
seem other dimensional, too solid, to cryptid like stuff too
black eyed teens. I mean, gosh, Doug, I wish he
(05:55):
wrote about that, because I really want to learn and
hear more about the black eyed children because those things
really freaked me out. But doublegangers would love to hear
about that more too. I've experienced that, and uh yeah,
but listen to what he's saying here. He's calling this
stuff evil. So a lot of people, when they experience
(06:16):
something alien, especially over time, there's a shift. There's a
shift that happens people. People shift in their thinking on
what was thought to be traumatic. Post traumatic stress disorder
often comes from alien abductions, and they go to seek
help and then lo and behold, it's been aliens this
(06:38):
whole time and had no idea. And then I've watched
this over the years of people shift, and like, I
guess it's not so bad. I've gotten used to the
surgeries and and then interrupting my sleep and taking my
children to the window and and doing all these different things.
And but this person here has come out saying it's
evil and uh, I like to say, there's definitely a
(07:00):
conflict in alien contact where people are experiencing more than
one thing. But some of these people straight up abductions
experiments the same stuff that's going on for I don't
know how long, and but the person's perspective is has changed.
And I'm not going to knock a person for what
(07:21):
they believe to be true for themselves, because who am I? UM,
but I just like to put that thought out there
and what I learned to from uh encounters with things
that I have also had, uh, not of the alien
abduction kind, but beings that say beware, because some of
these beings can shape shift to make themselves look at
(07:43):
like other beings, and you think, oh, there's are the
good guys I had a conversation with they didn't do
an experiments on me, and then all of a sudden, Oha,
these guys I thought were nice experiments on me? Or
or they get convinced to say, you agree to this
in the past life, or they get a memory even
you agreed to have this happening to you, so they
(08:04):
become more um, I don't know, appliable to what's going on,
or they're taught something and so they get you know,
they're they're okay with what's happening, but again not trying
to knock people for what they believe to be true
for themselves. For myself, UM, I don't if somebody's coming
over and abusing me, I would ask them to leave,
(08:26):
and I wouldn't try to get used to it, you know.
But and it's like, oh, but did I get used
to the abuse? And then it seemed like I agreed.
I don't know, you know, what's going on here? I
see the shift. I don't understand it. Um. But then
some of these people become more spiritual, more spiritually inclined,
more aware about the environment. And these all sound like
(08:47):
wonderful things. But a lot of people are becoming more
spiritual these days, a lot of people are more aware. Um.
But then there's people who also step away from spirituality
or they'll just stick to the spiritual uh topic as
as that not religious. I'm spiritual. It's like, okay, I
get it, um, but you know what, what is this? Why?
(09:07):
Why is this? You know? Are these beings encouraging this?
Is that? Okay? The beings that I had contact with said,
the beings that do abductions do try to put the
thought of preserve the planet um environmentally, and the more
positive beings say, but that's not the most important thing
(09:31):
that should be focused on. Putting all that energy into
that is not the most important thing. And I'm like,
I'll confuse, what do you mean? It's like the most
important thing are tending to souls, saving the souls. The
Earth recycles, that's what it does. It will recycle, it
will repair itself. But focusing on the souls, that's what's important.
(09:52):
So diverting attention from that is not a good thing.
That's what I was told. UM just sharing a lot
of people think otherwise because environmental things are are positive,
you know, and I get that, and I feel that
is too. I think we should definitely do our best
to keep this planet in decent shape for ourselves in
(10:13):
the next generation. So, but the conflict and alien contact,
like we're taking the words of beings that are doing
things that I wouldn't volunteer for surgery, I wouldn't volunteer
to have hybrid children. I wouldn't volunteer. I mean, in
my my today mind, I would hope I wouldn't volunteer
or past life mind you know. Um. Yeah, So that's
(10:36):
that's where I come from on it. But there are
people and a lot of people are like what they
once thought was negative, they don't anymore. And I'm like, okay,
why we should understand this. But these things, these conversations,
what I'm getting at, I got I got a little sidetrack.
But what I'm getting at is we should have these
(10:56):
conversations and discuss it with each other. And we have
these conclusions independently oftentimes because we we are just kind
of connecting online resuming sometimes a lot of us do
not get out to meetings and actually, you know, grab
a coffee and have a conversation. And it's a whole
different thing when you feel you could totally trust the
(11:17):
person in front of you and and that's that's special,
and that's what's missing these days. And I had a
UFO paranormal discussion group called u FO to you dot com.
It's a number two and letter you um dot com.
And Wow, I learned a lot. I grew and I
saw people, I connected with them, I got to know
(11:37):
them for years, and I understood to degree some of
the shift. I got to ask the people use up
with a gun on your pillow wire. Are you okay
with the aliens now? You know? So I gotta have
these conversations and I think we need to have that
connection again. And uh it, Doug, you're asking how can
you help teach people to fight and teach others to
(11:59):
do that. It's getting out and connecting with the people.
It's having a meeting, getting on one of these apps
where you can have a meet up or um, you know,
just connect. Absolutely, it is a brilliant thing. And I
got that opportunity to do that at this recent UFO
(12:19):
festival in Oregon and it was so needed and having
that chance, I wish others did too. And yes, we're
in a COVID world. We're going to have to work
on working around these things so we could all stay safe.
But wow, I cannot wait for people to learn to
reach out again. I think we're going to have a
(12:41):
resurgence of that because we have been locked down for
so long. And I think we're going to find more
value in having the groups come back to life. Even
I am thinking of bringing back mine. So and uh,
my guest today is actually from that conference, and I
think you're going to really enjoy her. It is boy,
to be Katie Grabowski and Wow, are you in for
(13:03):
a treat. We're talking connections to something like skid Walker Branch.
Oh yeah, you guys, you are listening to Dark Becomes
Light with me Heidi Hollis on the I Heart Radio
and Coast to Coast a M Paranormal podcast network Teck
a Rap. We're happy to let you know that our
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(14:09):
to Coast AM dot com. That's Coast to Coast AM
dot com. Welcome back. You are listening to dark It
(14:32):
comes Light with me Heidi Hollis on the I Heart
Radio at Coast to Coast AM par Normal podcast Network.
As promised, I have a fabulous guest. I have Katie Krabowski,
who is the Colorado Moufon State Director and serves on
the Colorado Board of Directors. She is a Star investigator
(14:54):
from Mufon and is Team lead administrator for Moufon's MARS Team,
which has Moufon's archive research reporting system. She also conducts
her own independent investigations and research outside a Moufon and
founded the Colorado UFO Paranormal Research Group to further explore
(15:14):
these topics and to share her discoveries with others. Katie
spends a lot of her time traveling to archives for
research and to conduct interviews. She is the author of
Letters of Light and Love, four Decades of UFO Encounters,
experiences and sightings shared with ufologists are Leo Sprinkle, PhD.
(15:38):
She is currently writing her second book, High Strangeness on
a Colorado Ranch and She holds a Bachelor of Science
in Visual Communications and owned her own graphic design studio
Design Junkie, and is the mother of five. I'm telling you,
Katie is truly a tremendous force to be reckoned with
(15:59):
and is absolutely necessary and needed to help further research today.
So everybody, i'd love to welcome Katie Grabowski. How are
you doing there, Katie. I'm doing great. I am soaking
up the gorgeous Colorado sun. It's a beautiful day here today,
preparing and enjoying it before winner hits us. Well, that
(16:21):
is wonderful, lucky you. We had a conversation just prior.
I'm not even going to talk about it, um, but
you know I have to say, Katie, you know I
had the wonderful opportunity to connect with you. We're at
the UFO fest up there in uh McMinnville, Oregon, and
(16:43):
uh I am really impressed, first of all with your background.
Second of all, with your ginormous personality. You know, a
lot of move on people get totally pegged for being
all just I don't know, it's not it's not an uptightness,
but you is are more scientifically based, but you are
ultimately human, and I was very appreciative to get to
(17:06):
know that very human side of you. You have a
spark that I think is uh really really welcoming to
a lot of people. Thank you having that's so funny.
I always like to say, I kind of live in
the center of the bridge, you know, I have that
scientific side, and I appreciate moupon and move on. You know,
we can have fun too, so but yeah, I I like,
(17:30):
you know, yeah, they have some fun with some things,
or what's the point. I mean, you know, we live
one life, and I just think it's a great way
to connect with people and and hear people's experiences and
things that it's vitally important to what we do in
the field. And I like also the bridging of the
UFO world and the paranormal world, because um, you know,
if my experience is I just can't I can't disconnect
(17:53):
it to I feel they're very much connected and the
answer is ultimately going to be very complex, very true,
and and there's science to kind of back that as well.
That there's that bridge between the two, the paranormal and uthology.
That's right, and I love that. I mean, you know,
as far as you know the power of our consciousness
(18:15):
and our mind. And I mean I think that's finally
being taking more seriously and being studied more, you know,
academically in universities and that so, UM, I think that's
an exciting, exciting thing, truly. So my goodness, I have
to ask, uh so being the state director for Colorado's
(18:36):
bluefn UM, I mean, how on earth and why on earth?
Why did you get involved in these things? Well? Um,
I really got involved in um. You know, like a
lot of people. You know, people go through life and
they experience things they don't quite understand. And that happened
(18:57):
to me from a very young age. I mean, and
you know, we had some experiences when I was really young,
kind of family legends both in Wisconsin and Illinois and
then in this from nineteen seventy eight, I spent a
handful of times out on this very strange ranch on
Melburt County, Colorado. It was known in UFO folklore through
(19:18):
the Apple Reports as a clear View Ranch or the
Rocky Mountain Ranch. Um. It is in Elbert County and
it's very much like the Skinwalker Ranch in Utah. So
those sat you know, I had these memories my sister
and I have these things happening. We were threatened and
more and really never to talk to anybody about it,
so I did never even knew it was reported or
investigated or anything. And um, in twelve I started watching
(19:42):
Actually before that, it was it was earlier than that,
I started watching Ghost Hunters and love that show and
all the paranormal staff. And I was watching a documentary
and they had mentioned mouf On or the Mutual UFO network,
and I had my degree in graphic design. I thought, oh,
maybe I can be at a field invest gator kind
of figure out what the heck all that was that
happened in my earlier years, and maybe I can sketch
(20:06):
like E. T. S or beans and craft, which I've
never really done, but that was sort of my intention
to begin with. And anyway, um, and you know, it's
just been kind of rabbit hole you jump into. As
many people know, the more you investigate, the more you learned,
the more questions you have, and that's you know, that's
where I'm at. Well, that makes sense to me that
you have that background and graphic design, because the presentation
(20:29):
you put on was extremely colorful and very lively. Thank
you a lot of people appreciated that and wanted to
get up out of their seats quite literally, for many reasons.
I appreciate that things. Oh it's great. So so it's
fascinating to me. Like I, I think a lot of
(20:49):
people that are involved in these uh these types of
topics are familiar with the skin Walker ranch and some
of the very strange happenings. But to have ex bury
it something like that yourself, and and to hear your story, UM,
I think the most disturbing part was the threat that
you got and it wasn't an earthly threat. Are you
(21:12):
able to go into that a little bit? Yeah? I
sure can, UM, And I'll tell you it's been you know,
you know, the move on side of me loves archives
and research, and UM, I spent you know, eight years
just doing that and not really sharing my story publicly,
you know, on any media platforms. UM. And I'm really
(21:35):
glad I'm starting to do that now because the people
that are coming out or that I'm um learning about
that have similar experiences is fascinating. In one such person
I just learned about UM had the same disembodied voice.
So what had happened? It was a weekend my sister
and I were out on the ranch for the boys
(21:56):
that we knew. We knew the three sons. His mom
had a birthday, so the adults were playing a board game.
My my sister, and I and the three sons were
in the room hanging out, and all of a sudden,
there's a strange, loud, humming noise that would happen out
there on the ranch property and sometimes would get so
loud you can't even hear yourself talk over it. And
(22:17):
then all of a sudden, the power goes out in
the house. The brightest light you've ever seen, like the whitest,
brightest light through the windows, and we're all just freaking
out what's going on. And at that moment, this disembodied
electrical voice, remember there's no power in the house at
this point, and in a nutshell, basically says, we've allowed
you to remain. Your friends will be warned not to
(22:40):
talk about us. Um you know, so the actual whole
sentences in the briefing document that I read, but in
a nutshell basically said, your friends will be we're not
to talk about us, and UM, my mom and the
adults in our lives at the time, I'm nine to twelve,
years old. I'm just a little girl, and they're like, Katie,
you know, don't you say anything to anybody about this. Um,
(23:01):
we don't know what will happen if you do. And
so you know, you learned to be quiet and shut
up really fast. Well, yeah, so some of the strange happenings. Uh,
tell us a little bit more detail about what exactly
you experience, Like what was the first thing that happened?
The first thing I remember happening is you know, just
like what we were talking about earlier. It was a spring,
(23:25):
sunny day in Colorado, but yet there was this wet,
heavy snow on the ground. Um. You know, springtimes and
Colorado are like that. We can get a really big
snow and then the sum will come out and the
weather is nice. Um. And so my sister and I
were out there just tossing the frisbee and we look
down and we just happened to notice that the dirt
under our feet is not only no snow on it,
(23:46):
but it was completely dry and nothing grew in it.
And we're like, this is really strange. And it's one
of those again we're young. It's like that big memory,
but we both remember it very well. It was just
so unusual, and the the whole ranch just had this
eeriness about it. Just being on the property, you just
felt different, you felt watched. It was strange. And what
(24:07):
was cool is M. John Schusler, after he knew of
my connection to the ranch, he gave me the original
briefing document and investigation papers along with Dr Leo Sprinkle.
When I went to go get the research from him,
his archives and Laramie wyoming Um, they actually had that
that snowless dry circle. They investigated that and they said
(24:29):
it was thirty five ft in diameter. So it was
cool to have that confirmation like, there it is, that's
that circle. But that was the very first thing my
sister and I remember. That is amazing. I mean it's
quite physical. It's one of those things that it helps
to verify and justify in your mind, and then to
to have that absolutely verified later, I mean, I wish
(24:52):
I had something like that. Haven't grown up and some
of the strange circumstances personally, so it's that's uh, that's amazing. Yeah,
the confirm ations of our our memories have been just like,
oh my gosh, it's so rewarding to have that, you know,
and and also in that report when it talked about
that thirty five ft in diame and or diameter circle,
it talked about the snow on the outside of it,
(25:13):
and there were drops of blood. So there were even
more details in it. And at the time out there
in Nolburg County from seventy to seventy eight, cattle mutilation
was extremely high. That's where linnimal and how got her
start out there as an investigative journalist researching all these
mutilations out there. And it just wasn't cattle, it was horse,
it was cow, was sheep, even dog, um and so.
(25:35):
And you know when I went out to investigate the
sheriff out there at the time, Bill Wall, the under sheriff,
his um wife now widow, Jean, and his youngest son
live out in Florida. We flew out there to interview them,
and um, they were saying these things were almost a
cream daily. That's how many of these things they were. Wow,
that's amazing. Well, you know, I want to get into, uh,
(25:56):
some of the details involved in your book and other experiences.
After the break, we'll explore that you guys are listening
to Dark Becomes Light with me. Heidi Hollis on the
I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Stick around, we'll be right back. Hey, folks. It's easier
(26:18):
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(26:40):
all the info right there. That's Coast to Coast a
M dot com Coast to Coast a L dot com. Hey,
it's George and Ori, and thank you for listening to
the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast a M
Paranormal Podcast Network. Here we go with more Dark Becomes
Light with Heidi Hollis. Welcome back. You are listening to
(27:15):
Dark Becomes Light with me, Heidi Hollis on the I
Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Joining me is Katie Rebel skichi Is. Wow, she's really
got quite the story, and uh, why had a few
similarities between the famous skin Walker Ranch and uh, you're
(27:37):
telling us a little bit about some of those odd
experiences that you had, and I wanted to hear more
about that and what you feel skin Walker Ranch has
in common with where you grew up. Yeah, I mean,
you know, the commonalities between the skin Walker Ranch and
the Colorado Ranch are just astounding. I mean, from the
(27:58):
cattle mutilations, the humming noises, the Native American connections, strange
um circles on the ground, the humming noises, the crypto creatures,
the sasquatch creature, I mean, on and on the list.
You know, these strange disappearing boxes. Um. But one of
my um main objectives starting out and researching this property
(28:18):
in the area because I thought at first it was
just UM at that particular ranch. Come to find out,
the activity was really high in the whole entire county.
There's several small towns in Obert County, Colorado, and so
the activity was going on. It wasn't just isolated to
the one property. But what was really fascinating to me,
and the question I really always had was how much
(28:41):
of this was unknown phenomenon possible UFOs, UM and beings,
and how much of it was our own military and
government out there because we had these strange h menacing
helicopters UM that were out there, and you know, pulling
up newspaper articles from back in the day, these helicopters
were actually chasing people, menacing people, and we're talking young kids,
(29:04):
Why would you do that? You know? What were these
helicopters doing out there at the time? UM? There were
to a SEVENTI s that in the report that I received,
UM said that they crashed in pursuit of a UFO.
And it was so interesting because in Laughlin at a
UFO conference, Richard Doughty was there speaking and I know,
I know, you know, disinformation. He's kind of come out
(29:27):
forward lately and said, look, man, I was just doing
my job, but I thought it would be interesting to
just ask him if he knew of the property, which
he said that he did. He didn't say he was
out there personally, but he was aware of it. Which
is really interesting to me that we have people in
our military that we know we're out there. We know
Norad was aware of what was going on, and we
know Camp Carson and the Air Force academy. They're all
(29:50):
in Colorado Springs, and where this property sits Um wasn't
too far from the lands that they owned. So my
question had always been what were they doing out there?
Were they out there causing activity or were they out
there trying to investigate activity? And what I've come to
believe now is that it's a combination of both. I
(30:10):
think both things were happening, and I find I'm still
that's what drives me to keep digging because it's been
so long now, you know, over four decades. Certainly some
of these helicopter pilots and military people, people that were
connected to the activity, I would feel like, okay, it's
okay to talk about what what was happening out there, Like,
you know, time to come clean, guys, you know, guys
(30:31):
and gals, time to complain. So, I mean, there was
just so much happening out there, but at the same time,
through my interviews, so many things that you can't explain
away just by military and cover ups. I mean, these
cryptic creatures, the sasquatch creatures out there, some of the mutilations.
Although I know, you know, Christopher O'Brien and czuch Sukowski
(30:52):
have have done decades of research on this topic. I
don't claim to be the expert here. I know that
some of them have very earthly explanations, but there are
a handful that are really high strange strangeness that they're like, okay,
that we don't have an answer to that, that that
can't be explained away so easily. And then of course
there's these orange flying orbs that the sheriff's were witnessing
(31:15):
and they would fly off the property do ninety degree
right angle angle terms. Um, some of these experiences by
the sheriff and the undershriff, These disappearing boxes and trees
that would appear to go just into the ground, just
completely disappear. I mean, what is that all about? So,
and then the paranormal things that we're going on, you know,
the ghosts and so there's a lot to these properties
(31:40):
that is amazing. Do you feel there's an interdimensional element
that's going on? Um? I do? I believe that. It
just seems like one of the only logical explanations to me.
And you know, and in talking about this and coming
forward and sharing this information, I've learned of other places.
You know. Now we have the blind Frog Ranch, and
(32:00):
we have the meadows Um which is down south with
Trey Hudson, and we have Marley Woods in Missouri. And
I learned through the move On Mars project, which the
move On Mars Project is all of the pre computerized
cases that move On would get, they would be you know,
on paper, and I had a team of fifteen people
(32:21):
that would go through and redact all the private information
out of these reports. So you know, we have access
to read and look at all these pre computer reports
from move On. And in there was the Ohio Pile,
Pennsylvania creature case, which had numerous witnesses the humming noises,
the circles on the ground, the cattle mutilations, these bigfoot
creatures and they claim they like shot at these things
(32:43):
and it just these bigfoot would disappear in a flash
of light. So there's another one. So I count that
in there. And something that is really intriguing to me
is is to try and find like, what is it
about these places that either are allowing us to see
the phenomenon more easily, or is allowing these things to
(33:05):
interact with the environment. Um you know, like portals or
or or gates or something that are opening here and
something that I found. If you go to the UM
United States Geological Magneticism Map, you'll find that most of
these are all of these locations are paying the charts
is being highly magnetic areas. So I find that interesting.
(33:27):
I think there's something important there. And I'm hoping, I'm
hopeful that we're all going to start working together to
look at some of these commonalities at these locations, look
at what we have in common versus the differences when
it comes to these cross research type situations. And and
I believe that there's always that situation if you look
and listen longer to the people that are telling you,
(33:51):
if they have constant activity in one arena, it seems
like they're also susceptible to experiencing another. UM. And I
remember you also mentioned having shadow people encounters coming through.
That's right, That's another one of my big questions, UM,
you know, because I have experienced things. And it really
(34:14):
got that night that I talked about with the disembodied
voice coming out of every orpus of the house that evening.
You know, we left the ranch property and we lived
forty five you know, minutes away from that property. We
lived in Englewood, Colorado at the time, and I got home,
made it through the front door, was down on the ground.
I went paralyzed, and my older sister, my mom or
(34:36):
you know, Katie, what did you eat? I'm like trying
to say peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and I couldn't.
And that must have lasted. It seemed like five or
ten minutes or something, and then I, you know, came
to got up in my bed and had my first
major episode of a migraine headache with the tunnel vision
of those who suffered migraines know what I'm talking about.
And I suffered those for years. UM and lucid vivid
(34:57):
dreams and the shadow people in room oftentimes by three.
It was never one, it was either two or three. Um.
I never slept alone after that. Always felt like I
was being watched, just a host of other things. And
the more people you talked to about these things and
you're like, oh, wow, they experienced that stuff too. And
another thing I'd like to mention, even with Project Blue Book,
(35:19):
you know, they were really just focused on the nuts
and bolts craft, the propulsion, the configuration of lighting, didn't
make a sound, you know, those kind of things. They
never really even asked about the paranormal side of things. So,
you know, going through all the newspaper articles from the
way back in the day, pulling names and trying to
contact some of these folks. It's a great thing to say.
(35:42):
And now I know you had cattle mutilations, because most
of the articles are written about the cattle mutilations and
what they thought was going on at the time, whether
they're you know, colts doing this or you know, their
theories on what was happening. Um, But they didn't ask
them about the paranormal side of things, you know, or
their activities or strange humming sounds or any of these
(36:03):
other you know, crypto creatures or anything. So I think
it's important that we go back and revisit some of
these investigations because now we have more questions to ask,
more connections to make. Yeah, definitely, that is just it
just blows my mind just when we think we have
some kind of answer or understanding of anything going on,
(36:25):
when it comes to these supernatural type of events. We
I feel like with each case, you have to start
from ground zero and to try to trace the connections
and who was where and what was going on at
the time. I mean, did you ever find any kind
of connecting source to why some of the things happened
(36:46):
as they did for you? Um? Well, I think that's
a huge problem in this field. Um you know, reinventing
the wheel, having to go back, you know, that was
fascinating to me. Learning how I first found out about this,
that this was ever reported in the first place, were investigated,
um Is. I bought a book titled Hunt for the
(37:09):
skin Walker by George Knapp and Colm Kelly and her PhD.
And I didn't know anything about the skin Walker Ranch
at the time, and you know, they didn't have a
show on on the History Channel or anything. I just
knew it was about a ranch and some strange stuff.
So I bought the book and I get to other
hot Spots the chapter of the Hot Spots, and they
started talking about the ranch in Colorado, and I knew
(37:31):
it was the ranch I had spent time on as
a young girl. And I called my sister right away
and my mom right away. And you're not going to
believe this, but in that book, um they mentioned Dr
Leo Sprinkle, PhD, John Dr PhD, and Peter Van Arsdale,
PhD were all out there on the ranch along with
Clarissa Burnhout, who was a psychic medium, which I found fascinating.
(37:52):
I got to interview her as well. Um, but to
learn that that place was actually being investigated with shocking
and unbelievable. But more importantly, when I went to go
research it, I got lost in all these letters written
to Dr Sprinkle, and it was very apparent to me
that we're just always reinventing the wheel. There's thousands of
(38:14):
thousands of books on the topic, both paranormal and UFOs.
There's so many unbelievable researchers and scientists and people who
have been trying to find the answers to these things
in these connections for decades and decades, and it makes
you humble really fast, and it makes you think, wow,
just when we think we're finding some sort of parallel
(38:36):
or connection with you know, like for example, oh, it
must be like a frequency of thing or a magnetic thing,
or this thing or that thing, they've already thought about that,
they've already explored that. And I was like, well crude,
you know, so it just um, you know, you could
spend a lifetime trying to find one little piece of
this big puzzle, you know, and it's difficult. It's really difficult, truly. Well,
(38:57):
I'm going to get into details about this book that
you pulled together, um and that was connected to Dr
Leo Sprinkle. It sounds really fascinating. So you guys, you're
listening to Dark Becomes Light with me Heidi Hollis on
the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal
Podcast Network. We'll be right back. The Internet is an
(39:28):
extraordinary resource that links our children to a world of information, experiences,
and ideas. It can also expose them to risk. Teach
your children the basic safety rules of the virtual world.
Our children are everything. Do everything for them. You're listening
(39:58):
to the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast AM
Paranormal Podcast Network, heard on the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you find your favorite shows. Welcome back.
(40:25):
You are listening to Dark That Comes Light with me
Heidi Hollis on the I Heart Radio and Coast to
Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. And I have Katie Powski
and wow, you guys, you have never heard such a story.
I am really really digging it. And uh, I haven't
had anybody come on the show that says, you know,
(40:48):
I really got involved and looking into these topics because
I read my story in a book already. What I
know was it was quite shocking for me as well,
but also just like validation, like oh my gosh, my sister,
we're like, we're not crazy. Oh my gosh, this happened,
you know, because you know, yeah, I'll never ever forget
(41:11):
that night. And of course Dr Leo Sprinkle, who is
just a gem and a pioneer in the field for
experience or and a hypnotherapist and a psychologist, how to
lary Me Wyoming. He's old school. He didn't do, you know,
emails or anything. So I had to handwrite him a
letter and I'll never forget walking to my mailbox and
getting that letter back from him going yes, and he
(41:32):
had the last name of the family and the local
and I'm like, oh, I knew it. Oh my gosh,
that is an unforgettable day. And you know, next week
it's a two and a half hour drive to me
for me to alary Me. So I made that drive
met with Leo and he is the most gracious time
of his time, of his spirit in his time, like
he We sat on the couch and talked for two
(41:53):
hours in his office. This is the sweetest man you
can ever want to know. I actually went last week
in it at him. Um. You know, he's ninety one,
but now he's hanging in there. Um. But he's just
a great guy. So what ended up happening is I
went to the archives, which is open for anybody. You
can go to the Heritage Center and Larry and he
(42:15):
has eighty four boxes of his lifetime of work there.
And I went to pull the file on the ranch
which is there, but I got lost. I pulled every
file out of every box. I got lost in people's
letters that had written to him over the decades. And
we're talking from experiencers, from pH d s, from other
people in the field. They're all filed in there, and
(42:39):
they're fascinating. And I just, you know, made a dozen
trips back and forth, and I would take photographs of
hundreds of these letters. Then i'd go home, I'd organize
them all into files, you know, box thirty three, and
then I'd go through and I'd read them all. I
kind of pulled all the juicy parts out of the letters,
like I felt if I found them interesting, other people
(43:01):
would find them interesting. And it came to me in
a dream. You need to put these in a book.
So the book is Letters of Love and Life for
decades of UFO encounters, experiences, and sightings shared with uphologists
are Leo Sprinkle, PhD. There's several different chapters in the
book on hypnosis, something a lot of people wrote about.
Where was this a dream or was this some memory abductions?
(43:25):
Channeling the e T S letters from children, um um.
Dr Sprinkle kept all his response letters, so every chapter
begins with a quote that relates to the chapter. And
that's cool because you can kind of see how his
process of thought changed through the decades. So it was
just this huge labor of love. And like I said,
(43:46):
it made me so humble to read the work of
so many other pioneers in the field, and it kind
of you know, it was it was just a great experience.
It was a really great experience. I was so happy
to honor him in this way, um. And along the way,
I learned a lot of cool things, you know, from
different people in different letters, But were some of the
(44:07):
more interesting experiences that you read one one that really
surprised me. Um. I would hope most of your listeners
would be familiar with the nineteen seventy five Travis Walton
abduction case out of Snowflake Arizona. So I come across
a letter in box twenty, folder thirty one from a
gentleman that lives in Illinois and the letters dated UM
(44:29):
March thirteenth, nineteen eighty one. And he's he says, I'm
a senior citizen now and not educated to your level.
I have been a country preacher for many years now. UM.
And he goes on to talk about it was a
year between nineteen thirty one and nineteen thirty four, UM
our bus had run through a small place that I
(44:52):
believe to be Snowflake Arizona. And he goes on to
talk about an abduction experience he had with a blue light. UH.
Pretty similar description of this. I mean. So I'm like, wow,
this is an earlier Snowflake Arizona incident. UM from a
preacher that talks about that. UM, that's interesting. There's also
(45:13):
some really cool information I found on fe Warren Air
Force Base. It was a multi witness UM sighting out
there in Cheyenne, Wyoming, multiple multiple military witnesses, nuclear shutdowns
and you name it. So that was fascinating. There's just
so many things, um and not only from the United States,
(45:34):
but you know, stories from Brazil and all around the world,
So you know, amazing. Did did you get a sense
of what beings people were having the most interactions with
where they all graze or you know, that's really a
great question. And something that also fascinates me about this
topic is it seems to me, reading through the letters
(45:58):
and reading the books and all the research that the
phenomenon has, it seems to somewhat ship like for me.
My my favorite decade to read about in research, of course,
is in nineteen seventies, you know, because of my experiences
out on the ranch property, and it's fascinating to read
about these because there were like more accounts of actual
(46:21):
landed craft or beans in these suits, silver suits, blue suits,
and of course you don't know how much of that
is popular media, you know. In nineteen seventy seven was
Close Encounters of the Third kind, which I had to
laugh because it just occurred to me. I'm like, wow,
I don't think everybody looked at that as like a
documentary films, and I'm like, it's like your life, I'm
(46:44):
living that, I'm living that craft anyway, Sorry, for the language.
But so I thought that was funny. But you know,
so you know, you hear these encounters of you know,
beings working on craft, and of course there were the
humanoid types and the grays and the and then the
cases that come into move On now seem to be
(47:05):
more lights in this guy. And if there is an
encounter case, it's more personal, like in my bedroom kind
of thing. You know, the beings came to me, not
like by at landed craft in a field, but in
my room. So it's sort of changed in that way.
I find that really interesting. Well, I have the different
things that occurred during abductions. Has that altered at all
(47:28):
over the years, you know, again reading that and again
a lot of this from just reading the letters and
research from Dr Leo Sprinkle because he worked with experiencers
and abductees for so long, um, and it seems to
me those types of commonalities, um haven't changed all that
much when it comes to you know, you know, the
(47:49):
hybrid program or being put on a table and you
know something a needle stuck in your navel or these
that seems to remain fairly consistent even as early as
like the sixties seventies, eighties nineties, those things tend to
be fairly consistent through all the decades. Uh and uh,
I know out there when we were at your focus,
(48:10):
you know, Ray Hernandez just in his team are doing
research on that as well, looking you know, talking to
experiences from the around the world and trying to find
those connections as well. And um, yeah, so that hasn't
changed so much. Yeah, it seems the things that have changed.
I've been involved in it for a while myself, and
and the the perspective of those who were taken have
(48:35):
changed from horror two. I think I was chosen to
I guess I'm okay with this. And it was always
puzzling to me that part, because it was PTSD that
got them to realize they were experiencing what they were
And I honestly believe there's a conflict in alien contact
that they may be having positive experience with different beings
(48:58):
that might look similar and ones that are doing things
like I don't know anybody that would volunteer for surgery,
that's all I'm gonna say, right, No, you know, I
had that same kind of thing, and you know, on
the ranch property, I did not see any et beans
that I consciously remember seeing on the ranch. But it
was reported that there were two types of beans out
(49:19):
on that property, and in fact they it says they
were in conflict with one another. One was this very
mechanical looking being with tubes and wrinkles around the mouth,
wrinkles on the forehead, really heavy brow, not the huge,
huge almond eyes, but bigger than our eyes. It was
fascinating about that. Those sketches were in Dr Leo's files
and I put them in my back pocket. I didn't
(49:41):
put them anywhere. I didn't share them with anybody because
I wanted to find something that looks similar and ling
the whole. You know. A year and a half two
years later, we have a guest speaker, Shawn bar talk
talk about his book Flashbacks was about and it was
about a property he had in Castle Rock, Colorado in
the early seventies. All sorts of very similar, high strange activity,
and up comes these drawings and you couldn't match these
(50:04):
two beans any closer actually did a morph of the two,
and I was like, what are the chances of that?
That closed my mind. But that mechanical being, but there
was also these humanoid like Nordic being beans and it
was like they were in conflict, and Heidi, I really
wrestle with that too. Like for me, I was terrified,
you know, nightmares, never slept alone. I mean, it was
(50:26):
a scary time for me. I felt watched. I would
run up to the nearest house. Um. You know, it
went through that PTSD stuff, all of it. Um. But now,
just like so many experiences, now, I feel like I'm
kind of driven and it's you know, more of a
positive kind of thing in my life. UM, certainly don't
(50:47):
feel chosen in any kind of way. And people asked
me do you think you were abducted? And I, you know,
like I said, I don't know the answer to that.
Dr Sprinkle put me under hypnosis and I was kind
of a little shock. Boy came out back. Now, so
I don't know, I don't know, um, but I wrestle
with that kind of How did that bad experience, that
(51:10):
really frightening thing when I was a kid where you
felt isolated and alone turn into something that I'm so
driven about now. I think, yeah, it's really an interesting,
interesting thing, that's wonderful. I just hope I'm not being
tricked right well, I mean, ay, but you might be
inspired by an opposing force, another type of being for
all you know. But I mean, it's a puzzle. How
(51:32):
can people get a hold of you if they want
to reach out? Um, I have a website. It's Katie
Grubovski K A T I E G R I b
as in boy O s k I dot com. Katie
Grubovski dot com. Thank you so much, Katie Gruvovski. I
really want to thank you for coming out on the
(51:52):
show today. This was really fascinating. Yeah, thank you so
much for having mean. I can't wait to hang out again.
We had a blast. It will happen, It will happen,
all right, everybody, we have come to the bottom of
another fabulous program. Remember to go to my main website,
Shadow Folks for Heidi Hollis dot com and tell me
(52:13):
what's going on in your lives. What is it at
your experience and what are your thoughts? What's your research?
And I mean A to Z anything and everything you
have been listening to Dark becomes light with me, Heidi
Hollis on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast
am Paranormal Podcast Network. We'll see you next time. Stay
(52:33):
say everybody, Well, if you like this edition of Dark
Becomes Light. Wait till you hear the next one. You've
been listening to the I Heart Radio and Coast Coast
(52:54):
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