Episode 97: Shroud of Turin

Heidi talks with Shroud Researcher Joseph Marino.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm George Ori and welcome to the new I
Heart Radio and Coast to Coast, a m paranormal podcast network.
Like us on Facebook, Tell your friends and share us
with everyone. This is an exciting new network that will
feature podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, and the unexplained. Now
please sit back and enjoy Dark Becomes Light with Heidi Hollis.

(00:27):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware of the thoughts
and opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and
opinions only and do not reflect those of I Heart Media,
I Heart Radio, Coast to Coast AM, employees of premier networks,
or their sponsors and associates. We would like to encourage
you to do your own research and discover the subject

(00:49):
matter for yourself. You are listening to Dark Become Light
with me, Heidi Hollis from Hi Heart Radio co he um,

(01:13):
you're a normal podcast network bloggomes in my show. Remember
each week this is the place you go to when
you want to learn the latest and mysterious encounters, polly encounters,
cryptozoological encounters, and if you or someone you know has
experienced anything out of the ordinary and you want to share,

(01:33):
you want to learn, or you want to comment, or
you want to ask anything, go to my main website,
which is Heidi Hollie dot com or shadow folks dot com.
Tell me your story has given as much detail as
you would like because of more details are better. And
I mean, we open up the floodgates for anything and
everything out of ordinary because it's important to paint a

(01:55):
picture of what is going on and what is possible
in this world. I mean, how else are we going
to learn about this stuff unless we break down these stories.
And I mean, if you got photos, I get a
lot of people say how do I submit photos or drawings?
Just write me at Heidi Hollis at gmail dot com.
How about that or through that website as well, and

(02:16):
just you know, I'll take it up. I'll take it,
We'll look at it. And you know what, you guys,
you are in for a treat today because I have
one of the world's top researchers on the shroud of Turin,
that is the burial cloth of Jesus Christ. There's an
image of a man who was obviously crucified and it's

(02:39):
been studied for a very long time, but then it
got tested for the time period from which this cloth
came from. And it was shown to be that this
was actually dated not during Jesus time, and people like,
it's a fake, it's a fraud. No, no, no, If

(03:01):
you've kept up with what occurred after that conclusion, it
was shown that it was tested from a repaired section
of the shroud. How did they come to that conclusion? Wow,
Joseph Marino knows because he and his wife are responsible

(03:22):
for that conclusion. So you guys, you've got to hear
this story because it's amazing. The story on the Shrouded
Turn is not over. It is absolutely unexplainable what occurred here,
how this image of a man was impressed upon this cloth.
Much more testing and much more work needs to be done.

(03:44):
And Joseph Marino, he's going to tell you all about
it and his story because it's something you've never heard before.
And I know you're going to enjoy him. He's really
really insightful and wow, mind blowing stuff. But to be
in with you, guys, I got a couple of your emails,
Yes I do. I am going to read these things

(04:06):
off here, and I grabbed them randomly. I wanted to
be short, so I look for short ones and uh, totally.
I never read these things beforehand. I really try not to,
um and and just dive in so you get the
raw me when I'm checking these things out, and you
just never know what we got. I just love it,

(04:27):
all right. Okay, So this first email says, dear Heidi,
I see every evening black orbs and shadow lines in
my room. M. I don't know what they are or
what they want. Harry, Hey there, Harry, how's it going.
That's interesting. I don't get many people talking about the

(04:48):
black orbs. UM. I personally had an encounter that wasn't
very pleasant myself. And being that shadow beings are connected
to aliens um and vice versa. I mean, it's it's
hard to exactly say what these things are, but I
can tell you what they have done to myself. UM,

(05:10):
and I've heard from others too. UM. They seem very
alien because they are perfectly round, right, and they can
form rose. Uh, they can operate together or solo, right
and uh, but they're black. I haven't seen them personally
shape shift or anything like that. But I'll just tell

(05:31):
you what happened. Okay. I know I spoke of it
here on the program, but I think it was a
while ago. Um So this one night, I was sleeping
on my couch, okay, I was watching television. Um My
college roommate was in the next room that kind of
opened up to the living room right there, right, So
I'm sleeping and I hear my friends scream. I'm like,

(05:54):
what you know? And I wake up and I am
floating up towards the ceiling and there was this big,
big black like crack in the ceiling. It's so weird.
It was like an interdimensional looking thing, right, And I
was like, whoa, you know, and I wiggle free and boom,

(06:17):
I am dropped from the ceiling onto its foot on.
It wasn't comfortable, okay, boom onto the foot on. And
I literally scurried and I'm crouched and I'm looking up
at the ceiling and all in the room, all in
the room, the living room, and you know, the TV

(06:38):
is on, and it's like lighting up these black orbs okay,
and I get chills. And they were just like floating
in the middle of the room. And then they all
floated up to the ceiling right and and like lined
up like perfect little rowse and and the crack closed
and and these these black orbs started to fade away

(07:01):
right and and my friend and I were both crouched
out on the on the ground and we're like, oh
my gosh, oh my gosh. I could still say that
I could still see them, and and we didn't want
to reach up to turn like the light on, to
you know, get a better look. We're just like too
scared to raise up because they were some of them
were still gathering up onto the ceiling, and um, it was.

(07:25):
It was weird. It took a while for them to
like saddle and fade, but we could still see this outline,
like a kind of transparent outline of them, and we
finally just you know, we as they faded more, we
got the nerve to flick the light on and was like,
what in the heck? It seemed like they were transporting me, um,

(07:49):
creating a interdimensional crack of some kind, like pulling time
apart and creating this rift to yank me through. It
was really odd and it had a negative vibe to it,
very much like shadow beings would, but also mechanical um
spying even so um to say exactly what they are,

(08:11):
I've heard of glowing orbs that would take people by
surprise because they would be like, I don't know what
this is about, flying parallel to the ground, going at
a very fast speed, or being like these little orby
things that kind of hanging the night sky and have
a look at people and people feel like they are
probe like you know, they're too small to actually house

(08:33):
a entity in there. But I mean we have drones, right,
we have drones where we can use a camera to
spy and stuff, so you know, maybe these things are
kind of like that. But they also seem to have
this ability to open up doorways. Okay. Um. Also when
you think of the orbs, the ghost orbs that that
people show, it's it shows up in a lot of

(08:55):
a lot of photos. They have been known to spin
and to open up portals as well. Okay Um, there's
great imagery out there are photos of these things doing that,
Like they get together and they pull energy together, and
they they're able to do things that gives you the
hebe jeebies from head to toe. Yes it does. Um,

(09:19):
So I hope that's helpful for you, Harry. I mean,
I'm not psychic or guru, but um, you know, there
there seems to be that there's a pulling together of
energy with these things. So personally, I would bless my
space because um, alien or not. If you don't want
them there in your home, then they shouldn't be there,
you know, clear the air. Um all right, So I

(09:42):
want to get to this next one. I don't want
to run out of time because there's another short one,
all right, And this one comes to us from Robert.
It goes hih idi. I know I've lived past lives.
Was wondering if my one true perfect love partner from
my past might be again walking this earth and searching
for me. Hmm, that's cool. That's a nice, warm, fuzzy thought.

(10:04):
I like that. Also. I believe animals pets also come
back into physical form, but I hear stories of people
who come across over to heaven and meet their long
lost pets. How long do people and pets stay in
heaven before they once again take earthly forms. Well, that's
a good question. I like that one, Robert, all right, Um,

(10:28):
you know, I'll tell you. It's like I personally am again.
I'm not a psychic, but I've had people come on
this program and I wish I could remember names better
than I do. But there was a researcher that came
on who was an expert in reincarnation, and uh, he said,
in Asian countries and other countries, who um believe in
reincarnation like outright, like I'll see you soon, you'll be back.

(10:50):
You know, the proven cases of reincarnation were it was
just a few months, like like six months. I think
it was the average or something like that of people
past loved ones coming back into human form. Isn't that something?
But Western cultures, you know, us people who have these
thick skulls who don't like to believe in such things

(11:12):
as reincarnation. It's years sometimes decades. Is that something? So
because we think that we should wait for others on
the other side that that was literally said by this researcher,
that we believe that, well, i'll see you on the
other side. It's like, well, shooting, I gotta sit here
and wait for you to come so we could have
a conversation when I could have been reborn already and

(11:34):
been your's been your baby or something. And it's interesting
how they interchange and switch it up like that, you know. Um,
you know, one time your your brother and sister, another
time your your cousins. You know, it's it's really really
interesting the patterns and stuff. So, um, I think it's
fascinating that you know that you've lived past lives. A

(11:56):
lot of people question, you know, the validity of that,
or if you're saying that, you would say something like that.
But um, it was taught before in the Bible. I
mean it's there. I've spoke to you a monk not
too long ago who said, well, yeah, that's that's true.
You know, Um John the Baptists was Elijah reborn. It's
mentioned right there, and it used to be taught in
the church. Well kum bay yah, that's awesome. I'm glad

(12:20):
to know that. But for some reason, Western cultures just
don't address those things as much as they once did.
But we are greater than we are allowed or led
to believe. You guys, I don't know why that is,
but never questioned the human potential. And and also know
that God made us the way he did for a reason.

(12:42):
We're not perfect, We're flawed. We're meant to fall down
and get back up, come back again and recycle. It happens.
But I think that there's something that's capturing souls and
that is hello, hat man, that is stopping the natural
progression of our days and times. And you know what
has time is coming to an end. He likes to
call himself Satan's well, he's gonna play that role and

(13:04):
get thrown in the dungeon and kept there. All right,
you guys, you guys, stick around because we've got a
fabulous show coming up here with Joe Marino. You are
listening to Dark That Comes Like with me Hetty Hollis,
I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast. They am paranormal
podcast network. We'll be right back, welcome back. You are

(13:36):
listening to Dark Becomes Light with me Idy Hollis on
the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast. They am
paranormal podcast network. As promised, I have a fabulous guest,
Joseph Marino, who has a b a. In theological studies
and as a long time synchonologist who is one who
studies the Shroud of Turran. He has research, written, and

(13:58):
lectured extensively on the shrouds to nineteen seventy seven. He
became ordained to priesthood in nineteen becoming a benedicting monk
as a result of his interests in the shroud. In
Marino received a call from m. Sue Benford, who informed
him on her spiritual insights about the shroud. After many

(14:19):
discussions by phone and emails about the shroud and other
spiritual matters, he began to experience God in a whole
new way. He felt powerfully drawn to leave the monastery
to pursue shroud research and other spiritual paths with Benford.
Marino believes that if the shroud can be shown to
be the burial cloth of Jesus, it would be an

(14:39):
interesting archaeological object. However, he believes that it's more important
for the spiritual message it can bring most definitely, So
I am excited to introduce my guests, Joseph Marino. How
are you doing today there? Joe, good honey, how are
you doing fabulous? I am always trying to follow and
keep on top of the latest research when it comes

(15:02):
to the Shroud of Turin, and it's an honor, honestly
to be talking to one of the leading researchers on this.
And uh, but your background is so diverse, I mean,
you want to tell us a little bit about how
you became the person you are as you are currently,
because it's it's quite the story. Well, I um I

(15:25):
grew up in St. Louis, Missouri, and um I was
born and raised a Catholic. I was the youngest of five,
and um I was very into UH sports, both playing officiating,
following professional teams in St. Louis, that sort of thing,
and kind of thought at some point, I, you know,

(15:47):
they they always kind of recommend do something that you likes,
that you don't have to work a day in your life.
I'll do something. And in sports, probably UH wasn't quite
good enough to be you professional athletes, so you know,
you start thinking about being a writer, broadcaster, that sort
of thing, and you know, so I, you know, did

(16:09):
a did a broadcasting class at UH in college and
that sort of thing. But it's it's not as easy
as it looks, you know. But yeah, and I was
into into music a lot, just I don't didn't play anything.
My my dad was a musician, but but he didn't
leave many me any genes to to learn how to

(16:31):
play an instrument. Um So, you know, I like the
Beatles and the Moody Blues, and I still do to
this day. There's still my my two go to bands.
And um I saw out of after high school Um,
I went to college for two years. Um, after two years,

(16:51):
you know, you have to start declaring a major and
that sort of thing. And I still wasn't sure what
I wanted to do. Um. I had kind of become,
you know, an agnostic like many people in those days,
in the seventies, and I guess that still happens today.
Of course. So I got a job with the federal government, um,

(17:13):
working full time for the the Veterans Administration, and UM,
things seem to be going okay. I played to continue
to play basketball after high school and that thing in
men's league and whatnot. And um, I was kind of
sick of academics after my second year of college, and
so I took like a three year break from reading

(17:38):
anything academic and I pretty much only read the sports
page in the comics. Yeah, and after about three years
of that, it's like, oh, you better start getting on
the ball. You're in your mid dumb in my mid twenties.
You know, I got to get get going here, you know,
so around having so many different varied interest music, sports,

(17:58):
and then all of a sudden year digging into this
uh theological life. I mean, how did that come about? Well,
I I thought you know, I can remember so clearly.
Um in V two, the the National Collegiate Championship basketball championship,

(18:19):
was in St. Louis that year. Um, I just watched
it on TV and I thought, isn't this great? And
then it It's like I heard this void, almost exterior
voice say to me, but it was really me saying
to myself, isn't there more to life than basketball? But
I still didn't do anything with that for about three
or three or four more years after that, and finally

(18:41):
I thought, you know, I you know, I've thrown off
my my Catholic background, but I thought, you know, there's
got to be something, until you know, in religion or
philosophy that can give me more meaning to life. So
I started with a clean slate and just arted reading
anything about philosophy and religion, even non Christian religions. And um,

(19:08):
I remember in seventy seven, finally, about five years after
I graduated from high school, and when I'd go to
a bookstore, I'd always go to the philosophy religion section,
and I saw a book with a kind of an
odd face on the cover, and it said, is this
the face of Jesus Christ? Um? And it was a

(19:30):
book about the shot of Turn, which I had never
heard of, even though I had gone to Catholic school.
I mean, we learned about Veronica's Vale, which is really
a legend. It's not in the Bible, but supposedly some
lady named Veronica had I had a cloth, and she
met Jesus on his road to go golf and and

(19:51):
pressed the linen to his face, and it supposedly she
got an image. And you know, long story shot on that.
That's probably a story that was invented to explain that
there was a linen cloth with an image on it. Now,
the story, both the book and the story of Vernica

(20:12):
only deal with the face, but the shroud of Turin
actually has a full front and back image. You know,
he's about six ft tall, so you see the full
front image and you see the full back image because
the cloth is like fourteen ft long, so the body
was presumably laid on, you know, one half of it,
and then the other longer part of the cloth is

(20:37):
big enough to fold over so that it covers fully
the front and the back. So I took that book
home that night and read it in one sitting. And
I want to tell you I was just fascinated. Um,
there wasn't a lot of evidence back then. I mean
it was the cloth was fairly well known in Europe,

(20:58):
but not really not in the United State eights. I mean,
there were only a couple books available in the United States,
a few articles here and there. Um. But based on
the evidence back then, and that was only about a
year year and a half before the a group of
American scientists called Stirrup actually went over to tour and

(21:18):
studied it for five days. And after that is when
we got the big explosion of information that we we
still deal with today. But based on the scant evidence,
what relatively scant um at the time, I thought the
cloth that had a good chance of of being authentic. So, um,

(21:40):
you know, I looked at the bibliography and started, uh
you know, looking for articles and more books and and things,
and started keeping a collection. And um, you know, I
started out with about seven articles and I thought, wow,
look at this collection I'm getting It was virtually nothing. Today,
I probably we do have one of the top one

(22:03):
or two personal English language collection of shraud materials in
the world. So my whole basement is practically a shroud museum.
Absolutely divinely guided. It sounds like I mean, just like
this was not popular in the United States and and
it inspired you, like down to the core. That's it

(22:25):
just totally changed my life. UM, it actually helped. UM.
It was a vehicle for me to actually come back,
at least temporarily to my my Catholic roots. And within
about three years I joined a monastery UM in St. Louis,
where I managed to survive for eighteen and a half years. UM,

(22:50):
that's amazing eighteen and a half years. But I don't
regret it because what happened was UM in I received
a call from a woman from Ohio and UM. She

(23:10):
said that she claimed that she was having these UM
interactions with Jesus and stuff. And I'm open to that.
I mean, you gotta be careful. You can't. I mean,
you can't accept at face value when people say those things.
You gotta investigate it on a case by case basis.
And she sounded normal, she didn't sound crazy, and UM,

(23:34):
so we started talking on the phone. She said she
had survived childhood cancer and UM, she was a weightlifter
and UM, but we we know we had We talked
on the phone about spiritual things in the Shroud and
we kind of just you know, made it a connection
on the phone, and um, she was. She said she

(23:57):
had seen a program on the Shroud on TV and
she wanted to learn more. And UM, you know, we
we continued to talk and she actually sent me a
picture from an article that was written about her in
her hometown of Columbus. She had she was running two

(24:17):
businesses out of her home, she had two young kids.
Um her her husband had left her a couple of
years before that. And um, so she sent me, um
an article that had a color picture of her in it.

(24:38):
And you know, I had no idea what she looked like,
how old she was. But we, you know, we just
had a good kind of spiritual connection after that. And
when when she sent me the article, I opened it
and I can remember my exact words, which were, oh,
because here was this too much to my surprise. Here

(24:58):
was this young looking, vivacious woman of which did not
match to myke. You know, she said she had survived cancer,
she was a power lifter, and that picture of of
her just did not match that at all. Another life
changing moment. We gotta get to our next break, Joe.
We're gonna be right back to finish this. This is amazing.

(25:21):
All right, you guys, don't forget to go to Heidi
Hollis dot com or shadow Folks dot com. Tell me
your stories, tell me what's on your mind out there,
and tell me what you thoughts are about the strout
of tourist. As we continue our conversation with Joseph Marino,
all right, you are listening to Dark Becomes Light with me,
Heidi Hollis. I heard radio and coach Coach damn paranormal

(25:45):
cat stick around. Okay, right back, welcome back. You are

(26:05):
listening to Dark Becomes Light with me, Heidi Hollis on
the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast. They am
para normal podcast network. I have a Joe Marino and
he is telling us all about his really inspiring journey
going from a sports loving music playing I'm sorry enthusiasts,

(26:28):
you wish that you could play yeah, but you didn't
inherit that. And then you came across, uh, this mother
of two, single mother of two who has this fascination
with a shrouded tour and as yourself, which is a
Sue Bamford, and uh, you're you're impressed by her photo
and you you were in trouble. Huh yeah, yeah, yeah,

(26:54):
Oh just came out and it's like, oh, I wasn't
expecting this. And uh you know when you make uh
a connection on one level with a person and then
you add another you know, big level like that. Um,
you know you kind of know off the bath that
things could cook, you know. Yeah, well, how do you
say benedictine benedictine monkey. Yes, that's um, that that's that's

(27:18):
you know, surprising. I mean I think it surprises a
lot of people. But you know, from more recent research
myself and looking into uh various topics, I've found that
there's a lot of former nuns and priests who you know,
start another life you know, as one phase of their
life and they move on to another. Um. So how
did things uh progress between the two of you? Well, um,

(27:43):
she um actually asked if she could come out and
visit me, and um, you know she did. We and
we eventually even met with my my personal spiritual director,
who was a Diocisan priest. Um and I still, uh
when I go back to St. Louis usually every Christmas,

(28:04):
I get together with him and um he was impressed
by her too. But you know, he was advising me
to be cautious, and I think I was. And Sue
came out several times, and and you know, it wasn't
It wasn't very long before I thought, you know, and

(28:25):
she we were connecting really a lot on the shroud
level in terms of wanting to do research and stuff,
and we had ideas for research and whatnot. And uh
so she came out several times, and you know, even
by say, by the second time, I was I already

(28:45):
began to think that, you know, I could be in
for a life change. Um, and just weird things started happening.
Some people call him God wink, some people call him synchronicities.
But I want to tell you I just for almost
every day for about a year, strange things would would

(29:07):
happened that seemed to me, seemed to be drawing us
closer together. And um, eventually, I just my heart and conscience,
even though it it surprised me as much as anybody else,
my heart and conscience began to tell me that I

(29:27):
actually needed to to leave the monastery and and and
be with her. And that's when I ended up having happening.
And I never regretted it. I mean, it was tough. Um.
You know, I had expected to be in that monastery
for the rest of my life and everything. But and
I remember the when I was when I kind of

(29:49):
reached the stage where I knew that I needed to
do that. I want to see my spiritual director by myself,
father Tom, and I said, you know, he he was
kind of word of of it, and I was really
kind of hoping he'd come up with a reason that
I shouldn't do it, because I was kind of apprehensive
about taking that step. And UM, so eventually I knew

(30:15):
I had to do it, and I've never regretted it.
I mean, I eventually I lost Sue to cancer in
two thousand nine, and but we ended up doing really
really significant SHROUD work that we would have never been
able to have been to have accomplished at least stayed
apart honestly. I mean, you and Sue did research that

(30:42):
saved Shroud research UM to continue to this day. I mean,
I wish that my show was longer sometimes that we
could dive into all the details. But tell us about
you know how that came about, because so you've you've
are so well published and you're so well researched. UM.

(31:04):
When it comes to the Strate of Urran and yourself
and Sue quite the team you uh it tell us
about some of the articles that you put out and
and how you helped turn a lot of heads and
minds about you know, where the research should go. Okay, Um,
well that's stir team that I mentioned in They studied

(31:28):
the shroud for five days around the clock. And um,
their main mission had been to try to figure out
how the image got on the cloth. And uh, they
had the best science and technology available at the time.
They had guys from NASA and Los Almost National Laboratory,
Sandy A National Laboratories. I mean these guys and there

(31:52):
were a few women on the team. I don't want
to give them short shrift, but um, you know a
lot of the scientists on the team built bombs and
put help put men into space. So and these these
were bright guys, you know. But they couldn't figure out
how the image got on the shroud. So the evidence
seemed to be pointing that it was unnatural um event

(32:19):
of some kind, and it had all the wounds. The
man on the shroud has all the wounds that that
the gospels described as having happened to Jesus. So there's
that big Jesus connection. And Stir concluded that it was
not the product of an artist. Okay, they didn't they
didn't know how it got on the cloth. So from

(32:39):
seventy eight eight, you know, the world was above buzz
with the idea that the shroud was probably authentic. And
then the Church allowed a carbon fourteen dating radio carbon dating,
and that's a whole story in itself. I wrote an
eight page book on how things got screwed up with

(33:02):
the test, and I put additional entries after the book
was published, and those are available online on my on
my academia page. There's just tons of information that things
were just royally screwed up. Um. But the bottom line
was that the three labs said that the shroud data

(33:24):
to twelve sixt tht D, which means obviously that would
be too late to have been Jesus cloth. And by
that time I had been studying the shroud eleven years
and I just I just sort of knew that something
had to be wrong with that C fourteen tests, and
I wasn't sure at that time. So once I got

(33:48):
together with Sue Um at one point UM I came
out into Ohio. And so about another of ten years
passed after the Sea fourteen and during that period everybody
was saying, oh, you know, the shroud was a fake
and this and that, and I guess it was around

(34:13):
two thousand year two thousand Sue got one of her
kind of spiritual insights and was told that the that
the area where they took the Sea fourteen sample from
was a repair. So since I had such a great collection,

(34:34):
she had me get out some of the better pictures
of that corner and we started looking at it and stuff,
and we thought we could see some um ab neuralities
uh in that area in different kind of the weevil
would look different in places and stuff like that. So

(34:55):
we took some high quality um photos and she she
literally took the photos to a tailor downtown in downtown Columbus.
He was a French a European trained UM taylor and
she showed him the picture and didn't did not tell

(35:19):
him that it was from the shroud, And she says,
what can you tell me about this photo? And basically
he said, UM, well, it looks like there's been some
manipulation in the area. And we said, ah, that that
sounds interesting. So then she sent the same photos to
a couple of world renowned linen Um companies, one in

(35:42):
in Um, Ireland and one in Albany, New York. And
again we did we didn't tell them that it that it,
that it was the shroud, so they were blinded to it.
And each each of those two also independently said in
you know, different its that basically that there was a

(36:02):
repair of some kind. So we had three independent uh
textile experts who were blinded to the fact that it
was the shroud, all who have said UM that they
thought they were repairs in the area. So there was
gonna be a big UM international conference in or Vito,

(36:24):
Italy in August of two thousands. And before we had
that had idea about that, we hadn't UM planned to attend.
But once we got that idea, we said, you know,
we got to go to this conference and present the paper.
So we did and UM, you know, several people told

(36:46):
us that it was really the hit of the conference.
And Barry Schwartz, who was the documenting photographers first start
UM and as the editor and publisher of the biggest
and best shroud side, which is shroud dot com. If
you if your listeners go there. They better bring some
food and snacks and drinks because they you could spend

(37:08):
the rest of your life there. Um. So Barry put
it up there and um. One of the guys on
the Start team whose name was Ray Rogers. He was
the chemist, the head of the chemist chemistry aspect of
the testing for STIR. He had kind of gotten out

(37:28):
of Shroud research. He had accepted the dating results and um,
but he kept up with Barry site. And when he
saw the paper on Barry side, he kinda he called
Barry up and and read him the Riot Act. Why
are you publishing this nonsense? These people are part of

(37:50):
the lunatic fringe. I can prove them, prove them wrong
in five minutes and as well well, right the do
what you need to do, because it was so fascinating
that he was literally he had samples from from the
main part of the cloth. Okay, we gotta hold it
right there because I gotta get to our next break.

(38:11):
You guys, you are listening to Dark Becomes Light with me,
Heidi Hollis on the I Heart Radio and Coast to
Coast a m para normal podcast network. Stick around, so
we'll be right back before Joe Marino, welcome back. You

(38:38):
are listening to Dark Becomes Light with me Heidi Hollis
on the iHeart Radio and Coast to Coast, a am
para normal podcast network. I have Joe Marino here who
is sharing about honestly probably one of the greatest finds
in shadow Terrence h history and not allowing the death

(39:01):
to stand. And I wanted to continue where you left
off there, Ye, the kind that's death. Fascinating how this
came to be? Yeah, so um so. Ray Rogers thought
that he could prove our theory wrong because he had
samples from the main part of the cloth from and
he had been given another point some samples that were

(39:24):
right next to the C fourteen sample area, so he
could compare the two and if they were exactly the same,
that would show that there was no repair. So he
got out his microscope and Barry said he he called.
He called Barry back about an hour and a half

(39:46):
after he said it would take him five minutes, and
he says, I can't believe it. I think they're right.
He looked at both samples and he found that the
the area in the C four team corner was chemically
different the the main part of the shroud, and then
later on he was actually given a leftover sample from

(40:06):
the actual sea for teen piece and that they had
the same and they had the same characteristics as the
you know area next to it, which he had previously had,
so they were different. And then he found he found
like a die and he found a splice linen and

(40:28):
cotton thread, which means that cotton was used to repair
that area and they used dye to to make the
color look exactly like the original. So then that kind
of makes sense because a big chunk had been big
portion of that corner had been taken out for relics.
And if you know, if you have a piece of
linen and you have a big piece of it taken out,

(40:51):
if you don't repair it or restore it, it unravels.
So it makes sense that at least some repair work
was done on it to to tidy up the corners
and where that where it was cut. And Ray rogers
Um wrote a peri viewed scientific article in a high

(41:12):
end chemical journal called Thermo Chemical Actor in January two
thousand five, and Um he said that them that that
sample in the C fourteen area was different, and he
gave some other details that we don't have time to
go into now, but basically he said that the C.

(41:36):
Fourteen sample was not valid for for being able to
determine the dating of this shrouds. So, in other words,
that twelve six cannot be accepted because there was apparently,
um it was a mixture of first century cloth and uh,

(41:57):
sixteenth century cloth. So that kind of jump started research
to a degree back uh into the more research again.
I mean people hadn't stopped completely, but that it really
did give it a boost, and and you know, it's
been full steam ahead. And since then there's been statistical

(42:19):
studies that show that the what the labs did with
the data was a little um, shall we say, manipulative.
They didn't they didn't use all the dates, they threw
out the bad dates, and when they constructed their statistics
to come up with a twelve sixty with supposedly confidence. Right,

(42:43):
So that's that's wild. I mean, all because Sue, your
wife had a vision and and that kind of gets
skipped over. Do you find uh in the research? You know,
like you two having brought the attention to have a
look at that, you know what you what you discovered

(43:04):
and uh, but they like the nuts and bolts, they
don't like spiritual insight. But God still talks everybody and
this is still around and it's like that is Uh,
it's so amazing. And I've seen a couple of shows
that has you and Sue speaking of your discovery and
getting the credit that you deserve, but not getting the

(43:27):
opportunity to speak to uh it having come from a vision, right, Yeah,
people have do have problems with that. Um, you know,
it's just it's just one of those things of human
nature that some things make us uncomfortable. And you know
people that supposedly get spiritual insights or yeah, are one

(43:51):
of them. And so yeah, people pretty just pretty much
ignore that. It's amazing you having the background that you
that you do as a as among and and being
open to that. I mean, that's that's inspiring right there.
Because I'm a firm believer that you know, we all
get guidance and you know, it's whether we pay attention

(44:12):
to it or not. And because she did and you
both having the know how and understanding of the shatter trend,
that this was something important to pursue. And I mean
do you find though too that I have that uh,
you know, it's still having to prove to people that
the carbon dating was was wrong. I mean, do you

(44:32):
feel like cover that up? Patch that up? Yeah. Um
there's tons of still tons of YouTube videos and all
sorts of things where people do not want to have
an authentic shroud because, um, the repercuctions of that are
scary for them, especially if they're agnostic or or atheists. Um,

(44:56):
So they do everything in their power to try to
disprove it. And nobody has been able to come up
with a reasonable explanation of of how that image got
on the class So they just and they give a
lot of half truths and falsehoods and continue to try
to um say it's nonsense. That's a shame because it

(45:20):
is a common uh discussion honestly, And I'm just like,
I don't understand, uh, you know, the erasing um Christ
having been such a huge marker on the history of
this planet is is absolutely in motion all the time.
I mean, it's BC is no longer before Christ, It's

(45:41):
before the common Era, you know, it's BC. You know,
you know, it's like, why do that? And one of
my favorite arguments I would love to tell my friends
who you know, don't believe Jesus is it was a
big deal. I'm like, oh, what's the what's the year again?
You know, we we marked our calendars our years to
the day of him having passed because he wasn't is

(46:04):
a big deal. Yeah, And you'll probably have noticed, like
I have that it's amazing how how many videos and
articles and and different sites try to put forth the
idea that Jesus never even existed. I mean they did,
that's how far they take it, um, you know, and

(46:25):
that's kind of silly because I mean, he's he's probably
the best attested ancient figure in history, but because of
the religious connections, people try to um totally erase him
from history and say he never existed. But you know,
the main obviously those are kind of people not in

(46:50):
the main I guess there's a few in the mainstream,
but um yeah, it's just it's just the world we
live in today that people don't want to a real
Shroud and they don't want to real Jesus either. It's just, uh,
it's a it's a shame, but first first name out
of their mouths when they're in trouble though, you know,
like that's you know, where is the Where is the

(47:14):
research going now? I mean you're always updating is something
I think I got to notice on my phone just
now Joe Marino updated something on Academia dot du. I
mean you are constantly working your constantly, uh you know,
pulling in new facts and figures. Where are things going now? Yeah,
that's a good question. I mean people are obviously, um

(47:36):
wondering if if any new testing will be allowed, whether
there will be another C four teen test or I
kind of doubt if they'll ever be another C fourteen test, um,
partly because we don't you know, we haven't worked out
all the bugs on the old on that system, on

(47:57):
the fourteen testing already, and then there's new new dating
methods out and those need a lot of work too.
But I've heard that even though Pope Francis has uh
background in chemistry, um, my sources tell me that there

(48:18):
will be no new testing as long as he's Pope.
But you know, he's I think he's what eighties six
or something now, and uh, you know, I don't know
how much longer he'll be around, but um, perhaps the
next the next Pope will allow testing. But you know,
one of the amazing things about the in my e

(48:41):
book is the fact that uh Cardinal Ratzinger, who became
Pope Benedict sixteen, he actually had allowed, he had approved
rather uh Stirrup to have two weeks with the Shroud,
including a C fourteen test, and a lot of the
politics and backstabbings and agenda's got in the way and

(49:04):
Stirp was eliminated from not only doing their new test
of multi disciplinary aspects, but they weren't even allowed to
be involved in the C fourteen test, which was part
of the reason there was a fiasco there. That's a shame. Well, Joe,
we've got to wrap it up. How how can people
get ahold of your books, your works? What's your website?

(49:27):
My website is homestead dot com slash new Vista's all right, Well,
I want to thank you so much for coming on
the program today. This was really insightful, inspiring. I enjoyed it.
Thanks for having me for sure. Now be sure to
go to Amazon dot com and look for Joseph G.
Marino for his twenty twenty updated new version of his

(49:48):
book and his other book. All Right, you guys, don't
forget to go to Heidi Hollis dot com or Shadow
folks dot com. Tell me your stories, tell me what's
going on out there in the world. Tell me your thought,
your questions, your experiences. I don't care. Throw it my
way and we will take a look at it and
dissect it. Because every other show, what do we do.

(50:10):
We take your emails and your phone calls if you
care to jump on an interview. I'm just joking you guys,
never ever do that, so you're welcome. Be sure to
follow me on social media at one Heidi Hollis. That
is Twitter, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, everything but YouTube, which is
just Heidi Hollis. All right, and be sure to go

(50:31):
to the Outlanders Comic dot com for my paranormal comic strip.
We have come to the bottom of another fabulous program.
You have been listening to Dark Becomes Light with me
Heidi Hollis on my Heart Radio and Coast to Coast Hey, um,
Paranormal Podcast Network. We'll see you next time. Thank thank
for everybody. Good Bye. Well. If you like this edition

(50:59):
of Dark Becomes Light, wait til you hear the next one.
You've been listening to the I Heart Radio and Coast
Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. M